An idiot bakery opened up recently in my poor small town. They had people lined up outside as any new business gets here. But the majority of people were trying to pay cash. The majority of people were walking out empty handed. Then an employee posted a handwritten note on the door. ‘No Cash Accepted.’ Well, it killed the business. It went from being lined up, to being empty the next day. Until closing the next month. If my money isn’t green. We will take it to someone who wants it. And most of us, don’t want to be involved with any business that encourages more government regulation and intrusion in our private lives.
Had a laundry mat that wouldn’t accept cards, cash only. They were raided and shut down, turned out to be a money laundering operation that had been operating for years. Bakeries, laundromats, car wash’s, casinos, any business’s that are primarily cash are great ways to launder money.
You dont think cash is regulated heavily by the government? Also it isn’t government intruding into our lives when we use cards. It’s big corporations. That’s who benefits from our data the most. The government is just paid by big corporations to allow them to invade our privacy. BTW, get pulled over with $15k cash and see how intrusive the government (law enforcement) gets then.
@@WA_S_S_AWThat’s bunk. Yes of course every person or entity that is laundering money will be using cash because you can’t launder computer digits. However there are millions of businesses that accept cash that are not laundering money.
I used to work for a dry cleaner who operated out of a central plant and had a chain of several retail stores as drop off/pick up locations. I worked in several locations including ones that only employed a single clerk and occasionally a customer would present a $100 bill as payment for their order and I wouldn't have the change to break it. It was surprising to me how offended some customers would get when they couldn't pay with cash. Even though they could use check or credit card, more than once I would get the old "You can't refuse to accept legal tender!" argument. I got around that by explaining that I would be happy to accept it and they could pick up their change the following business day. Not one ever took me up on that offer.
When I was a teenager working in a little neighborhood pet store (not like the big ones that we have today), one of our regular customers came in on a Saturday and bought some feed. It was busy, so I took his twenty and gave him his change. There was something funny about it, so after the rush of customers, about an hour or so later, I went back into the drawer and pulled it out. It had 20s on the corners, but Washington's face. Someone had cleverly and carefully cut off the 1s from the corners and somehow attached twenties from other bills, in their place. I showed it to my boss, who was of course upset, because he would have to take the loss. A while later another employee spotted the customer in the village. My boss took the bill and when to find the customer. He explain the store's predicament, to which the customer replied that he had just received the bill from the bank that morning! We found out later that the customer went back to the bank with the bill and the teller couldn't tell right away what was wrong with it... until he pointed it out. To end the story... the bank took the hit on the counterfeit bill.
All the more reason to do what virtually all other countries do: different denominations have different basic colors, and even sizes can differ. The Euro has different colors for denominations.
I did a little research and this is what i came up with. Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New Jersey have state laws that private business must accept cash as payment. New York, business must accept cash as payment unless they have a machine to convert cash to a prepaid card. South Carolina, any business with a retail license must accept cash as payment. Colorado, Retail establishments must accept United States currency, with the exception of security deposits. Keep up the good work Steve, love your channel.
We have a business in Indianapolis, where the owner refuses to collect personal information on their clientele. In retaliation, the business is audited every year until they get compliance. So far they still take cash. 🇺🇸
Well, that sucks; i know of no federal law that requires collection of infirmation regarding sales of general merchandise, or of any such laws in my home state. If there are such laws in other states they are an over reach. The fact that some agency may be trying to force data collection by tax actions indicates that they have no legal basis to enforce through prosecution.
I was 14 and my first job was at a gas station, this car with out of state plates pulled in and started to fill up, when done he paid in cash. I remember going to my manager and asking "Do we accept out of state cash?"
I took All of the strips out of a stack of 100$ I had while I was waiting for my husband to get back to our mortal room, he was still in the Navy and was extremely upset over me defacing Government property! I said to him who is even going to know I have money on me no strips to give me away to TSA my money I will do with it as I please
Colorado does have a law that require businesses to accept cash. It does have three exceptions, but we do have a law against refusing cash payments. It was enacted in 2022.
I work in a supermarket and we had a $10 bill in motion picture money passed to one of our cashiers. Now I check $10 bills and up with our counterfeit detector machine. Company policy is $50 and $100 bills but being a 90s kid and $20 bills being the most counterfeited in that era I checked $20 bills as well. Now I check $10 bills as well.
"all debts public and private" would seem to mean DEBTS. So a purchase that requires advanced payment would not be a debt, but suppose you ate at a restaurant that had a policy of billing afterwards. At that point its not a point of sale, but an actual debt owed. At least that's the way I always understood it, and the rule you cited doesn't seem to directly contradict that. So what would happen if you owed money to a business for services already rendered and they refuse to accept your money and instead required payment in some form that you are not even capable of paying? As I understand, it would depend on if the business in question made clear this requirement prior to services rendered. If it was very clearly displayed that the restaurant only accepts credit card and you incurred the debt it's a contractual matter. You have contractually agreed to pay with a credit card. Otherwise if they either didn't display it or wasn't in a clearly visible location or no one told you then it's a situation where they can't sue you for non-payment because they refuse to accept payment.
People use to shave coins. You take a small amount off the outside of the coin. When coins were gold and silver this was a serious issue. So a shaved gold coin would look normal but would be lightened. Shave enough coins and you have a nice little bit of gold, and a lot of underweight coins. Its why coins originally had serrations on the edges.
I remember in 1970 at U. C. Davis, my friend had exact cash for his tuition and the cashier wanted him to go get a cashiers’ check, for which he did not have the fee money. He argued, and the cashier called University Counsel’s office. They told her that, as a quasi-governmental office, they had to accept the cash.
I actually looked this up when my wife told me that a Cafe in my area didn't accept cash. I had never heard of that. I figured that any place open to the public was obligated to take legal tender. But nope. I just hate the arbitrary double standards. I agree that a private business should be allowed to do what they want, but obviously, they can't allow smoking. Not even in a bar, which is insane to me. I'm not a smoker, just trying to be consistent. So personally, I believe they should be able to do what they want, even though I don't agree with them not accepting cash. But if that's the case, they should be able to allow smoking if they want and anything else they want as long as the underlying issue is legal.
Good point but a tough issue. Smoke don't stay in your wallet. The public often ends up paying for the cancer that can result from lots of exposure. So not quite the same. And I think businesses should accept cash, too, but I'd be fine just taxing non-cash businesses more. We could call it an "inconvenience tax." At the very least, they should be required to have prominent signage.
@x--. Anytime one creates an analogy, it can never be the same. While it's true they are separate issues, people can choose whether or not they support the business. If someone is worried about cancer, then they don't have to enter/support the establishment. The same as to business that doesn't accept cash. It may not be the best business practice, but they should have the freedom to do it. The point I was trying to make is, either let capitalism police itself. Or be consistent with the freedom that should inherently come with private business ownership.
@timwood225 We don't eat there out of principle. But if I had to guess, they wouldn't give us an opportunity to "owe" them. If we were blindsided by their policy, we would likely pay with it via cc as per usual and simply not return.
A bussiness can take any kind of payment they want I use to have a land scapeing bussiness and often time would accept tools or other items I needed if someone didn't have cash and then go trade it for something else or sell it Called Bartering
in my country it was even in the. 90s, and they had all, kind of rules about amount and the like. They also called by phone to get the authorization number 😂
some country stores still refuse credit cards, but my company signs with them to put atm's in their store, allowing them access to cash, and the store does not have to pay the fee.
If I go into one of those places with signs saying "no bills bigger than $20 accepted", I will first ASK if my 50s or 100s are acceptable for a purchase approaching that. Say, $45 for gasoline with a 50 or a 100 bill for 85 in groceries or restaurant takeway. If okay, then I shop there. If still "no" I leave. I will NOT force the issue with the counterman because he is just a worker and can get fired by a boss who is strict.
Back in 2010 I got a fake $20 from an ATM. I called the local Sheriff, and he confirmed it was fake, gave it back and told me to take the $20, the receipt, and the report # to Bank of America, the ATM owner and get my money back. He said that happens all the time, and people pass fake money without knowing it. He said I'd only break the law if I tried to use it, now knowing it was fake.
One of my first jobs in the late 70s was at a Baskin Robbins. Lots of loose change coming and going thru the registers. I told my coworkers that any pennies with an Indian head, or any silver change minted before 1964 was counterfeit and the manager told me to take it. I swapped the change out from my money. I still have a few relatively valuable Indian head pennies from then.
The key word in the legal tender law is "debt". It means that if you _already_ owe someone money, they have to accept cash to satisfy it. However, if someone proactively refuses to transact with you because you intend to pay with cash, then you don't incur the debt to them in the first place. And they're allowed to discriminate on that basis unless state or local law says otherwise. If you trick a business into providing the good or service first when they've made it clear that they don't accept cash, then legally you can still require them to take your cash to satisfy the debt that you then have to them, but they could ban you from the business going forward or even sue you for any extra expense they incur due to your failure to pay with an accepted form of payment. (Their claim would be on the basis of breach of contract.) You could hand them cash to pay the judgment in that suit, and they couldn't sue you again for that because _that_ payment wasn't part of any contract. 😏
Maybe, but by the time you've paid their legal costs from the breach of contract suit you will have paid an awful lot for the privilege of being a smug twat.
I remember reading a article in Pennsylvania that stopped a business from refusing cash because it discriminated against the poor Pennsylvania’s “Cash Consumer Protection Act” made it illegal for businesses “to refuse to rent or sell property or services” to consumers who don’t have credit cards.
There is a plethora of services available to everyone, in which you can get a valid bank VISA or Mastercard unsecured for the purpose of accepting company paycheck deposits, even VISA and Mastercard has card services expressly for that purpose, so there is no credit check required, but some others are, Netspend, Flex Wage Varo, and even American Express has a service too. All one has to do is look. Besides, if you aren't linked to politics, or Hollywood, we are all poor.
@@dsruddell To what are you referring? "Now" as in this year? My friend, these cards have been around for 10+ years in one form or another. Maybe you mean "now I recently discovered them"?
In Massachusetts, we have G. L. c. 255D §10A, "Discrimination against cash buyers," which prohibits retail establishments from requiring the use of credit.
Diminution - the act, process, or an instance of becoming gradually less (as in size or importance). So when coins were actually made of rare metals (like gold & silver), some people would shave off edges or "thin" the coins
And that's why dimes and quarters have those ridges along the edge of the coin. They used to be made from silver and you could easily tell if someone had tried to shave some silver from the edge
There are companies that make prop money, a lot of it is marked as such, in addition to missing some key elements. The marking/altering of bills is also only illegal if it renders them unable to use. I learned this from many discussions at the Where's George website. I have heard that the "legal tender for all debts public or private" only kicks in once a debt is incurred. So the stores that have signs that they don't take certain bills, do so because they gave notice before the debt.
I can imagine the conversation now! A 12-year-old Steve and some random adult. Steve: "What are you, the railroad police?" Adult: "What are you, a damn lawyer?" The rest is history.
Hey Steve. I just watched this and don’t understand. Each Federal Reserve note has printed on the face “This note is legal tender for all debits, public and private.” I also thought all U.S. businesses are required to take cash.
@@DanGumm yes, but just because it is legal tender doesn’t mean they have to take it. For that matter, with the possible exception of discriminatory cases, I don’t think anybody has to sell anybody anything. They could just say they aren’t selling it to you. They don’t even need a reason. 🤷🏼♂️🙂
I work at a gas station/convenience store/deli outside of Baltimore. Our store (and several other district stores in our company) have been receiving fake $100 bills for almost a year. On one Saturday night shift I received two of them, about an hour apart, with identical serial numbers. These bills are ALWAYS old (pre-1990s), faded, wrinkled, worn-out, and feel strange. I'm old enough to have handled bills from before 1980, so I know a bit about them. Each time I refused (and management backed me up) the bill, the customer was very polite and walked away without arguing.
As far as the "government" being required to accept legal tender, here is a story. My Wife and I ran into problems with the IRS where we owed money to them. We worked out a payment plan. After running into problems with "processing" checks, money orders, etc, which resulted in ever increasing penalties, we decided to pay in cash. So, with a well concealed envelope of a lot of cash, we showed up at the area IRS office to pay. Representative stepped back and stated "we don't accept cash". Hmmm. Why? Well, it seems they could not guarantee the safety of large amounts of cash at their office. "THAT is NOT my problem if you have thieves in your office". As you can imagine, that was not well received. So we ask for a supervisor. He comes out [standing out of arms reach of the cash] and repeats that they can not accept cash. I explain that each time we pay with alternate methods our debt increases due to their failure to promptly process the transaction. Supervisor says there is nothing he can do about that. "AHA, but there IS..... take this cash and give us a receipt for it dated and time stamped today". Bbbut, we have no way to safeguard it here. Well, that is your problem, not mine. I am paying my debt, and only wish a receipt stating I did so. Much shuffling around. Eventually said we cannot pay in cash. Mind you, this was NOT some sort of protest where I was paying in a barrel full of coins, just a stack of US bills. I pull a bill out of the stack and ask if this appears to be a genuine US piece of currency. He looks, and agrees it is. I point out the printing that says that said bill is "legal for all debts, public and private". Again, I ask how an arm of the US government can refuse to accept IT'S OWN CURRENCY as payment for a debt owed to them. He defaults to security of his office. I then ask that he call someone in authority above him to explain the refusal. I don't know where he went, or what he did, but he accepted the payment, counted it out [fair enuf] and issued the receipt for payment dated and timed. After a few months it became routine.
Technically, According to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver. The USD, Credit, and any other form of currency is not legally even classified as money, it is clearly stated in all documents to be "currency". Mainly, because under the highest laws of America the only things that may legally classify as "money" is Gold or Silver. Thus, the only legally assured form of exchange is Gold or Silver in America. If you are paying in gold or silver anyone selling in America would technically be required to accept it so long as the value and amount was clear. Thus, there may need to be proceedings and things such as an appraisal before you could exchange with the gold or silver. As for the government, creditors, and banks. They can not decline the USD, lest the government be required to close the federal reserve, all Banks, and money changers, and be barred moving forward from implementing any method of payment that is not gold or silver. Mainly, as America or "money changers" in or of America can not refuse the USD, Lest they lose the legal right to any form of exchange other than "Money". As per the conditions of the founding of the current economic system. That being said the federal reserve and banks are technically unlawful in their current form already, by other conditions in the founding of such institutions. Here were the main conditions of said system's implementation; 1. There will be some standard, tying Any American legal tender to a set and stable equivalent of money of The United States of America, or other hard valued, and unchanging resource. Money only includes gold or silver legally as is listed and established in the original documents. This means all currency today is unlawful. 2. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not, lawfully print, or produce, any form of currency of The United States of America, in any amount. Thus, the federal reserve is to be founded. So, the loan, credit system, and fractional lending system is unlawful. 3. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not have say, sway, or control, in any form, over the issuance, printing, or production of any Currency of The United States of America. Which makes the stock system in the federal reserve unlawful. 4. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not have say, sway, or control, in any form, over the taxes applied to any Citizen, dealing, or debt created in or by The United States of America. Which makes many things unlawful. So, I won't get entirely into that. 5. All lawfully issued currency of The United States of America, will be accepted as legal tender for all debts public or private. The "All private debts" means this does wholly include any "Private Company" doing business in America. Unless they are giving things away for free thus establishing no "Private debts" at any point. You can not owe anyone any thing of any kind if there was not a agreement of a "Private or Public Debt" established. This is the case beyond refute. Otherwise Legally all banks, money changers, and the federal reserve must be legally abolished, and may not be replaced. Returning us to the trade of gold and silver system. 6. All prior established Debts, public or private, of The United States of America, May still be pursued lawfully, in such manner as prior to the implementation of Federal Reserve Notes of The United States of America. "Federal Reserve Notes of The United States of America" are the current USD. So, technically Private companies can decline the USD. The only thing they are not allowed to decline is gold or silver. However, under the same merit technically the Government is required to shut down the federal reserve, all banks, and all Money changers (Such as creditors.) And issue gold, silver, or some other hard valued and unchanging resource, for every single USD in the nation. This is required to be done at the value of the USD vs gold, and silver, at the time Ex-president Nixon unlawfully abandoned the gold standard So, in short the entire American Economy in it's current form is illegal, and the situation is screwed. Also, the American Government doesn't abide by any laws and doesn't care. Honestly I understand. The one thing most people, especially leaders, and especially in America agree on, no matter their affiliation is as follows; Personal Interest > Greater Good.
@@darkpoechi The Supreme Court would disagree with you over the Constitutionality of federal currency, having upheld the "Legal Tender Act of 1862" multiple times. No offense, but I'll take their word for it over some random posting on UA-cam. I believe you're misinterpreting the fact that States are explicitly prohibited in the Constitution (Article I Section 10) from issuing legal tender in any form other than gold or silver. No such prohibition is placed on the federal government.
@@NorthernKitty First you did create a bit of a straw man there. Perhaps, because you just skimmed my post, instead of actually reading it. Seems a common problem given the length and lack of some people's attention spans, and my long winded nature. This being said, this is the one where I didn't already explain in as much depth. Also, you are the second to clearly fail to grasp what you read before replying, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that. As such, I will explain again the part you clearly didn't understand. The Constitution states that all depts must be paid in gold or silver, and gold and silver are the only legal forms of "money". However, the federal reserve was founded later, with laws and documents detailing what was and was not allowed by the federal reserve. This was in part due to the difficulty of large gold and silver transactions. They were as such, allowed to issue "Federal Reserve Notes" (What we call the USD today) due to this. They are by extension not classified as "money" and are instead referred to as "currency" in all legal documents that are beholden and drafted to the standards of proper American law. The very documents that allowed the issuance of Federal Reserve Notes, more commonly known as the USD. Also, made the federal reserve a legal entity. However, those same documents, required the federal reserve, be able to legally issue USD, only when it was tied to a set and unchanging standard of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource. Hence the "gold standard". This was, as you noted challenged in the Supreme Court, as to if the gold standard was enough to allow the lawful trade in paper currency. It was ruled to be so in 1862, like you stated. However, this was still with the caveat and requirement of the gold standard, which did exist at the time. If it did not it can not in anyway be called legal. Not by the constitution, or even the legal documents that allowed for the founding of the federal reserve, and issuance of the USD to start with. However later, President Nixon, who was found guilty of high crimes, and successfully impeached as a result. Unlawfully remove the gold standard. This occurred on August 13 1971. Well, after, and in direct opposition to the 1862 supreme court ruling. Thus, by extension rendering the current system of currency, banking, loans, credit, and even the mere existence of the federal reserve, unlawful by the following; The constitution, the 1862 Supreme Court ruling, and a few others, and even the very documents that originally allowed for the founding of the federal reserve, and issuance of the USD as a substitute for gold and silver. Furthermore, those very same documents mandated that the USD would be usable for "All depts both public and private." Thus, requiring any company, private or public who wishes to do business in America, to accept the USD. Additionally, the Government, banks, and all money changers of any kind are also required to accept the USD if they wish to exist and do business in America. Then again The entire thing is illegal as the USD is required to be backed by an unchanging amount of silver, gold, or some other form of hard valued resource. For those who don't understand what a hard valued resource is, Diamonds, platinum, or any precious resource with a similar value to gold or silver can qualify. So long as it is equated to the value of gold or silver at the value of the gold standard. For example; silver is more than gold so less silver is equal to more gold. Gold would be worth more than platinum thus less gold is needed than platinum to back the USD. Also, the amount is to be $35 per ounce of gold or the equivalent resource and is not allowed to change, in accordance with the laws. Mind you, that is very much not the case currently as 1 oz of gold is not $35, but $1619.75. Which means the Government is 46.27 times less than their requirement to be allowed to issue and trade in The USD, and in fact anything not gold or silver. However, by the laws that allow the current economic system of paper currency as a substitute for gold or silver, The Federal Reserve must have on hand 1 oz of gold for every $35 or an equivalent resource, and be able to exchange them if required, at that value. Thus, ensuring the value of the USD as a gold or silver equivalent, as required by legal standards. Not that they are required to exchange it however, they must have it on hand at that value and be able to exchange it, at that value, such as to ensure it is a legal substitute. The USD should be as good as gold, literally, or it is not legal, nor is any of the current economic systems. I also find it important to note that when the federal reserve was founded, as all USD had to be backed by gold or silver. The Federal reserve seized all privately owned gold and silver at the time, and issued the equivalent in USD, or Federal Reserve Notes. As such, not backing it by those merits makes the American government also responsible for the theft of hundreds of thousands of tons of gold and silver from it's citizens. Sorry, but your understanding of both history, law, and the economic systems/economic situation of America fall short.
@@darkpoechi No "straw man" at all, you EXPLICITLY stated "according to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver." I EXPLICITLY responded that this is incorrect and there are Supreme Court rulings that say as much. (Knox v. Lee and Parker v. Davis, for example.) I also cited where in the Constitution you may have erred in your interpretation. Pretty direct response to your direct assertion. I don't think "straw man" means what you think it means. (In fact, your response is really the "straw man" here, moving on to entirely different arguments, failing to cite where in the Constitution the fed is limited to gold and silver as legal tender.) Stay on point, son. You assert the Constitution prohibits it, I said it doesn't. Please cite in the Constitution where the feds (not the States) are prohibited from issuing paper currency, or Supreme Court cases where they say as much. No more unrelated ramblings, nor any "what they really meant was" - specific Constitutional clause, Supreme Court rulings or you're just some random guy wildly ranting on the internet about their own convenient personal interpretation of what the Constitution means, and I'm getting tired of that garbage.
@@NorthernKitty Absolutely a Straw a man. You responded to a part of the post, while ignoring the rest of the post. Thus, actively taking it out of context. When further clarified on the part you actively ignored. Which was most of the original post, mind you. You then ignored it a second time. So, 100% strawman. -- If that isn't a straw man by definition. Then it would be Legitimate to say you 100% admit I am right in your last post, by the exact same methods and logic. Mainly, because your last post said, "according to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver." If I was to actively ignore all of the context of that statement. In the Exact same manner you did, for my original post, and the post that post is responding to. Then it would be you agree. Only in the context of the rest of the post does it not mean that you agree, and instead contest my points. Do you not see the flaw in your entire logic until now given that is exactly what you have done this entire time? -- Also, I already addressed the only actual point you made in your post that was in any way legitimate, in my reply. Namely, the supreme court rulings. Nixon later ignored them, and acted in direct opposition to them. Thus, making the current system unlawful. He was even found guilty of those crimes, and others as well. He did the same for the documents that allowed for the founding of the Federal Reserve, and issuance of paper currency, and by the constitution as well, in this process. -- But hey, You would already have been aware of all of this if you were not actively ignoring it to make a straw man instead. Mainly, because all of this was already explained and said in the prior 2 posts, in much greater detail. With the only point you made that was in any way legitimate already countered completely. -- When the court rules that me having a bond fire in my yard, isn't lighting your house on fire, as long as it is kept to the firepit in my yard, when you take me to court. That is no longer the case after I take a burning stick out of the bond fire and actually light your house on fire. -- You clearly are either malicious and dishonest, or an idiot who lacks all understanding of legality, History, The Economy, Logic on the level of a 10 year old, and may well be illiterate as well. This is based wholly on your own posts in responses to mine. I would advise you be a more reasonable person if you wish not to look like a complete idiot in the future.
The penny press machines are also at the service plaza on the Florida turnpike. I am reasonably certain that on those machines is the federal statute exempting them from the statutes criminalizing altering, defacing coins. Next time you see a penny press look to see if the statute is posted on the machine.
Dimunition of currency was relevant when coins were made of silver. They could shave silver from the coin and still go spend it. That's why dimes, quarters, dollars& half dollars are ridged around the edges...to reveal shaving.
Historically this was called “clipping” after the way the irregularly shaped coins of ancient times had excess metal removed down to the correct weight - by clipping. So, filing and scraping was still called “clipping.”
He is correct on this, remember at the end of the day the federal reserve note is " Fiat" currency. It has no backing behind it. A long time ago, during the days of Woodrow Wilson, they gave control of the money supply to a cartel of private bankers. So today instead of gold or silver notes we have Federal reserve notes. Which is a central bank currency.
Massachusetts Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A: "No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer."
That is a state law, and is not a federal law. So in the state of Massachusetts then yes all transactions must include cash as an option, but in a state where a similar law does not exist then no cash is not required as the fall back is to federal law.
This law does not strictly require cash be always immediately be accepted at face value, it only prevents a business from only accepting credit. In particular, it doesn't prohibit a business requiring debit cards or cheques or barter or the currency of a different country be used to pay (all of which are not credit). It also doesn't prohibit a business from instituting reasonable policies aimed at reducing risks (like only accepting cash when the sun is out, only accepting small bills, or only accepting the actual money being handed over in a secure location and time of the sellers' choice). It also doesn't prohibit cash handling fees. It was aimed at car dealerships and real estate brokers who had shady arrangements with banks who offered loans, requiring buyers to take out a loan for large purchases from the bank which gave a kickback to the business. In short, the law doesn't require a business to increase the amount of risk it is willing to accept in any way. It only basically imposes the obligation, really, to be willing to come to a compromise with someone who only wants to pay cash. For example, a business would be perfectly within the bounds of the law to say "OK, I'll accept cash, but I'll only hand over the ownership of the product when I receive the cash, and I'll only accept the cash in the local bank or police station between 9am and 10am on Monday morning, after we've both counted it in view of a camera - for my own security. " If the item you are arguing over is a loaf of bread, then it's sort of not worth it.
When I was in college, a friend was the lead cashier for a branch of a very well known luxury department store. She told me that they had a huge run of counterfeit bills passed during the Christmas holidays. One thief would buy something from a busy clerk with a handful of twenties, with a number of double sided (black and white!) counterfeit Xerox copies slipped in the wad. Additionally, an accomplice would distract the cashier as they rang up the transaction.
I was on vacation with my family when I was a kid and my parents stopped at the bank to pick up cash to pay for stuff like a fan boat rental and whatever. The bank gave them hundred-dollar bills and all of them turned out to be phony, but the only person who recognized it was the guy at the rental place. He was nice enough about it and realized that my folks weren't trying to scam him, so he didn't call the police. Our next stop on that vacation was to the bank - and then the police got involved. lol
Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island all have some form of law requiring that retailers accept cash.
@@I_Am_Your_Problem "We look forward to you getting off your ass and doing your own research." Translation: I'm too f-ing lazy to do the research so just accept my claim without evidence. Let ME introduce you to Hitchen's Law: That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." So, I_Am_Your_Problem, you are dismissed along with your claim until YOU provide the evidence.
Back when I was a kid, I knew a guy who owed another guy a debt. He tried to pay it off in cash. The debt was on a payment plan and guy #1 was trying to pay it off. Guy#2 refused the cash payoff. A Judge ruled the debt paid because guy #2 had refused cash.
Some 30 years ago I was a retailer, and once in a while a dissatisfied customer would come to our office with a wheel barrel full of pennies. I would show them on a one dollar bill where it says Legal tender for all debts public and private. Then I would ask him to go through his pennies and show me one that had that statement. A little bit of a ruse but It always ended the argument.
Steve, I love the "show me the citation." As a cop, I often get told: "I want them arrested." They then describe what happened and when it turns out to not be a crime I explain it to them. Sometimes they dig in and explain how they know it's a crime and I should charge them. I then simply ask, "Can you show me the statute? Then if the elements fit what you are saying I will be happy to charge them." No one has taken me up on it. It's actually amazing what people think is illegal when, in fact, it is not.
They are doing this at sport's venues and concerts now. I think the reason for this is the venue gets 10% of total sales. The venue is afraid that they will not get their 10% if people pay with cash. At the soccer stadium across the street Geodis Stadium a hotdog, cup of fries, and a bottle of water is $30 plus tax. 10% ads up quick. They want to make sure they get it.
Back in the late 70s, I worked in a bank in Yakima, WA. National Geographic had an issue which had a full sized $100 Travelers Check on it's back cover. Someone there gathered many copies of that issue, cut out the "checks", pasted white paper on the reverse side and then passed the phoney $100 checks around town to various merchants during a weekend. No, the "checks" didn't "feel like" regular checks, or even "look "right when examined closely. But a large number were accepted by store clerks because National Geographic did not print any disclaimer of actual value on the advertisement. We discovered these "checks" when several of our commercial customers deposited them on Monday.
General Laws of Massachusetts, Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A. No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer.
MA, RI and NJ have laws that require businesses to take cash. MA: General Law - Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A RI Gen L § 6-13.1-30 (2019) N.J. Stat. § 56:8-2.33
There are many places that feel if they accept cash they could be robbed. For example, if you rent a storage unit, it's safer for them to accept other payments. If you're a senior living in a senior community such as a mobile home part, it is much safer to accept electronic payments. Since this is America I believe the business owner has full authority as to what they will accept as payment.
You are probably seeing this more than once, but there's a portion on the upper left hand corner on the front of the note that says this note is legal tender for all debts public and private. The private aspect is the one that says an individual must accept that as a way of remuneration for services rendered for any other legal debt that been incurred from my understanding cuz it's on the front of the note. Is that your take on this? If not then what is a private debt?
@@I_Am_Your_Problem Not presently. I'm 67 years old and college was a long time ago. But, you have the internet, and if it's that important to you......
As others have pointed out below, there are states that require businesses to accept cash - laws have been passed since this video was published. Oregon and Massachusetts are two.
Here in Colorado the legislature passed a bill HR1048 that requires businesses to accept cash, unless it's a business that has no physical personal on property. Things such as do it yourself car washes, some laundry mats and a few other exceptions. CHEERS from Colorado
Many years ago i was running a construction jobsite, and told my guys i would buy lunch if we could wrap up that Friday. I took my paycheck to a bank a few doors from the jobsite to cash it. Before everybody had Debit card/machined. Told the lady i wanted nothing larger than a $20. ( another story about trying to pay $146 gas purchase using a$100bill). So i walked out of the bank to a pizza shop in the same parking lot and ordered 8 pizzas. I proceeded to peel off $20 bills to pay for my pizzas. The cashier began running them through a counterfeit detecting machine which proceeded to kick out 8 of 34 . So while waiting on my pizzas i walked back to the bank, explained to the cashier the situation. She brought over the manager who told me " all i can do is turn them over to the FBI to be sure, but i can't give you your money back. I regret to this day that i was a very loyal employee and told her " never mind, i will use them for buying gas". ( still mad over the $100bill incident). Later i thought, who better to pass counterfeit money than that snotty bank manager.
@@genegene3348 I knew stores could withhold the counterfeit if given and detected, and retail can’t give money back. But a bank? A bank that didn’t detect counterfeit sounds strange, plus taking your pay, seems like they owed you money. It would be the person who gave counterfeit to the bank would have lost it if detected-- guilty or incompetent victim….,
I just bought a new GE Single Wall Oven from Home Depot on Valentines Day. I told the sales clerk that I had cash and Gift Cards when I went to checkout and would the cash would be a problem. She had to get the Store Manager to ok taking my $100 dollar bills. She had to examine then mark the bills then hand them off to the manager and he did exactly the same thing. The funny thing was I had 9 $100 bills and the store gave me credit for 10 $100 bills. I looked puzzled and did the right thing and said you gave me an extra credit of $100. The manager snapped back and said no they didn’t make a mistake. At that point I shrugged my shoulders and said “sounds good to me”.I walked out to my truck sat down and said Happy Valentines Day to me. Love Your Stories
At certain stores, at certain times of day (like NIGHT), that have limited tills, you should know better than to leave yourself a hundred as your only option. It's akin to running your gas-tank down to fumes and getting in a pinch. You need a plan B, even a C. It doesn't matter if the small store has cashed it for you before. It could've just been shift change. "Sorry, where were you 5 minutes ago? I just dropped all the money". You can't imagine how much that happens like Murphy's Law. You wait and wait for that last-minute hundred, then make your drop and there they are! It's downright spooky. You buy a pack of Backwoods with a hundred (and that's a huge red flag to look real hard at that bill), what you need to understand, is that when I give you $95 & something back, my $200 drawer is $95 lighter. There's nothing I can do with that hundred but admire it or drop it. It's Schroedinger's hundred - it's there, yet it isn't there. Can't trade it back for anything unless someone comes in and says "I need to get rid of all these twenties". I don't have a magic machine that can dispense more bills. I have a finite till. No you won't take smaller bills. That's the entire point. When I run out of smaller bills, I'm out of business until morning. People like to try & hang it on you and make a fuss over "customer service". What do you want me to do? You should've known better.
California State Parks do not take cash. A few years ago when I visited Yosemite National Park. To pay the park entrance fee, I handed her cash for the exact amount. I think it was $35. I was told they didn't accept cash. I commented to her "the government doesn't accept their own money"? She replied "no, only credit or debit card". I personally think there is something wrong with that.
While I agree with you in principle, there was no debt involved. Perfectly constitutional for them to refuse cash when pre-paying for a service before any contract was made.
@@scotttwapple Taking cash, particularly in a isolated area, leaves the clerk exposed to theft and personal harm. Also, can leave the retail owner exposed to employee theft.
Conterfit story: I worked in a casino back in the 90’s and my Floor guy was fairly new, nervous and kind of a jerk. It was a really busy weekend night on a crap game. I hand in a $100 bill to the Boxman and lean over and say that they may want to check that bill out. I was completely messing with them, as far as I could tell, it’s a legit bill. The Boxman looks at it and calls the Floor over. I’m chuckling to myself as he’s taking this way too seriously. I forget about it and contiune on, the joke has been played. Sometime later security comes over and has the guy who handed me the bill step away from the game. Turns out it really was a bad bill. The best part was, the guy says he got the bill from the cash cage. They run back the video and sure enough, the casino was passing bad bills to the customers. At this point I just shut up and deal.
I had this happen at a restaurant. Nothing was posted at the business. No signs, nothing on the menu etc... I told them CA$H or nothing. They said that they would call the police if I failed to pay. I told them to call, that I would wait for them. They decided to let me leave. When other customers saw this, they did the same too.
This is one instance in which I would side with you in a court of law. If a business doesn't want to accept cash for transactions, that's fine, but they must indicate "no cash accepted" or a similar message on some type of sign that's easily visible to the public. The fact that this business didn't do that means their "right to refuse service" does not apply this time and they must face legal ramifications for deceptive business practices.
I remember back in the 1960s in GA a man tried to pay a debt with a check. He was cursed at and was told he had to pay the debt in cash. He later returned with a pickup loaded down with coins. The man who insisted on cash accepted the coins as payment as everyone there was under the impression that if legal tender was rejected for payment of a debt it would void the debt. I often wonder if that law ever existed and if so what happened to it.
Excellent advice (as usual). Case in point: I'm a landlord with 16 apartments. In the lease, I clearly state "Under no circumstances will cash be accepted. Check, MO or electronic transfers only." Saved my a@@ in court each time.
You went to court? Why not just point to the lease? You're saying someone said this is cash take it or you don't get your rent and you refused it? Out of the fue times that would happen I find it foolish not to take the cash and go to court. Far more bad checks are passed then bad cash.
@@tomtransport Yes, I did (and will) refuse outright cash. Some tenants will go to court saying they paid me in cash when they didn't thus giving the judge a 50/50 chance of believing them. Some tenants will pay partial rent in cash then complain later that it was full. -By hey, you run your apartments your way, let me run mine my way.
I don't do business with retailers that don't accept cash. If my cash is no good, then your business is no good. I don't recommend businesses that don't accept cash, and I have no issues with recommending their competitors to friends and family. Incidentally, I've seen many businesses that don't accept cash go out of business. While correlation isn't causation, it can be a major contributing factor.
In the early eighties during a driver's Ed class, we had to cross a toll bridge. Because of how it worked, the kids had to pay the buck fifty. We had five cents with the change when we crossed and the toll attendant had a cow, saying she would not accept pennies. Well, or US Government and Civics teacher was also the driver's Ed teacher. He informed her as a government agent she was required to. We were allowed to go to a mini mart during our training so we could get 15o pennies. We held up traffic as he made her count them all on the way back through. It was a civics lesson I won't soon forget.
What was the lesson, how to induce road rage in others? How to selfishly delay innocent people just trying to go about their day to prove some sort of point?
@@flamingsickle The lesson was, I think, for us. Although businesses can set their own policy, the government must accept currency. Please note, it was a slow traffic day and few people were delayed.
I think all businesses and government agencies should be legally required to accept cash as payment because the words “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private” appear on every bill denomination. “Public” referring to any government agency and “private” referring to any business that operates within the country and its territories.
Ok, but when purchasing an item, that is not a debt obligation. It is a transaction, which implies mutual consent of both parties. Businesses are not obligated to sell you something just because they have it. Their only obligation is to not use your membership in a protected class as the reason. Having cash in hand does not make you a protected class in itself. I know restaurants that hate having to make the trip to the bank because 90%+ of their business is from cards. Taking cash means having change, taking the sales to the bank, entering additional data into accounting systems, needing cashiers to count the change, and being vulnerable to theft via robbery or employee misconduct. It can be a hassle, and an expense. I personally like cash, but their right to refuse is very much just as important.
@@jonqu7041 I understand your reasoning, however, if we all used cash instead of credit cards, imagine how much money would be saved in transaction fees. The savings in transaction fees would easily cover the additional cost of paying an employee to count the register and go to the bank when necessary. Using cash also eliminates the problems associated with technical glitches in the card readers that would force businesses that do not accept cash to lose sales until the technical issue is resolved. Refusing to sell an item to a customer because they want to pay in cash is only hurting the business because the policy of “credit or debit only” loses sales to cash customers.
If I remember correctly the stuff about altering coins was from the days when most coins were made from a higher percentage of gold and silver. People would shave off some of the metal from the edges of the coins. They would then save up the shavings to sell for the gold or silver. That is also why most coins now have a textured edge so as to make it harder to shave the edges without it being noticeable.
That was one of the reasons. Really useless coin collector trivia: In the 1960s there was a coin shortage (first in the US, then a couple of years later in Canada) as silver coins were pulled from circulation by people who realized that the silver was worth more than the coin's face value. In 1968, the Philadelphia mint used some of its excess capacity to mint some of the 1968 dimes for Canada. You can tell which coins were produced in Philly vs. Ottowa because the reeding on the edge was shaped differently.
The metal used in coins is worthless. Maybe they did that during the Roman empire, but we are not living in the Roman empire. No one would do that in the modern world.
@@Tugela60 Please do some research, early coins in the U.S were made primarily from silver, gold and copper. They even had arrangements were citizens could bring their own gold, silver and copper to the mints to be made into coins. Silver was still being used for coins up into the 1960's. Silver dollars weren't called that just because of their color - they use to actually be made from silver. I use to be into coin collecting and still own a couple of the old silver dollars and silver dimes. While the metal in coins now do not contain much value they still out of tradition retain the ridges along the sides that were put there back when the did, As I stated above the ridges were added back when the coins contain valuable metals to discourage filing the edges down to obtain the metal for selling separately. The US government to further discourage this they even later went as far as making it illegal for the common citizens to own gold except as jewelry. This ban was only removed after gold was no longer used in common coins.
@@rhondaflesher8313 Do some research yourself. Coins in circulation are made from cheap metal, the milling around them is for decorative purposes, NOT because people are filing them. There is no point.
A few years ago I went to a restaurant with my wife for dinner (go figure). At the end of the meal I go to pay and I'm told the policy is to not accept cash. I asked where that is posted in the restaurant. He said it's not posted anywhere as "Everybody" knows that's his policy. I explained I was not carrying credit cards. He called the police. I explained that the restaurant has not posted anywhere that they do not accept cash for meals so there is no way for somebody to know their policy before they eat there. Police looked at the owner and told him he was out of luck. Food wasn't that good anyway, free or not.
Didn't even know about "motion picture money" until I had some friends with a small business have had a big increase in people trying to pay for goods at conventions with it. They ended up getting a fancy bill counting machine to more quickly test ALL bills they're given vs having to examine and test with a pen every individual bill in a large stack of them. That was after they missed a couple and didn't know about it until the bank found it. They've lost enough money in un-caught fakes that it was worthwhile to buy a fairly high end counting machine that is very picky about testing bills.
I got passed a fake $100 - at a wells fargo not long ago. If it wernt for the fact I was a cop, I'd have been stuck with it. Got a fake 20 out of a bank atm before too. What's even more strange is that they were fairly obvious, they should have been able to spot the difference of the one bill that was just slightly off from the rest.
How about writing on or defacing currency? Fun Fact? Most cash is outside the country, upwards of 75%. Only a small amount is in the US. The US government has been pushing for decades to go 100% digital. As of now I believe both the one cent coin and nickels cost more to produce then their marked value. Always wondered if the recycling value is higher than spending them.
I can see why a business in a high crime area might not want to accept cash. Less chance of robbery/burglary if never cash on the premises and signs that say that. Otherwise doesn’t make sense because businesses must pay a fee for each credit transaction.
I once had a store owner refuse to take 4 Sacagawea dollars that I had for a $4 item. He said: "I don't take that sh**, go get me something better." I had a lot of Sacagawea dollars because the vending machine at work gave them as change. That said, I stopped shopping at that store.
Around 1979 they issued the Susan B. Anthony dollar which was about the same size and appearance as a quarter. When we used to go to the board walk to play games at AstroWorld you could occasionally put a dollar in the change machine and get four Susan B. Anthonys as change. Eventually, vending machine tolerances caught up and could tell the difference between a Susan B and a quarter but I think one of the reasons they stopped making them is that people were mistaking them for quarters too. I also think it is the reason that the Sacagawea dollar was gold in color. I believe its dimensions are the same as the Susan B. Anthony dollar.
@@Brirend It was golden colored when new but turned dull like an old cent after circulating for a while. Canada found that dollar coins would not circulate while “paper” “dollars” were in circulation. Britain found the same. £1 coins would not circulate until £1 bills were gone.
I thought there was some concept that went something like, if a business is trying to bill you for services after the fact but are not accepting your offer of cash that the results are really not your problem. Like, you have a meal at a restaurant and at the end of that meal you get a bill, attempt to pay with cash, they refuse the cash, and then you go, "Oh well, I tried" and walk out. Situations like that. Might be some random state thing somewhere though, IDK. I can't really think of how that would be translated into legalese.
I was working in Calgary, Alberta at a Tim Horton's when a customer came in and paid with an obviously fake $20 Canadian bill. My coworker could immediately tell it was fake, but the customer pulled the one bill out of a stack of at least $1,000 in 20 dollar bills. If he was carrying $1,000 of possibly counterfeit bills, he was probably carrying something else. So, out of safety we accepted the bill, then called the police afterwards. The next day, after our boss met with the police and provided the video to the police, me and my coworker were reamed out for not passing off the bill to the next customer. We were told if we did that again, we were fired. I quit shortly after that. Another note about the security camera and video the Timmies had... it was a $20,000 multi-camera system specifically developed to track money coming into and leaving the store. Down to the point where it kept track of the amounts in each hand, what's in the tills, and whats in the hands. The video of the money was so crisp that you could see the $20 bill in question, and through the video you can tell it was fake... The system was so in tuned with Canadian Currency and tracking money that they police could not obtain a usable image of the guy that passed off the bill. So, basically, the only thing the cameras were good for was to make sure employees didn't steal money.
@@barowt The only problem is that is a felony in Canada. If I know it's a fake and pass it off, I can be found guilty and be imprisoned for up to 5 years... because I knew it was fake... and trust me, you could tell it was fake. But, when the guy pulls out about $1,000 worth of fake bills, you don't confront them... if he's got that much counterfeit, it's also probably carrying something else to protect that cash.
If that's true that they don't have to accept it then they should be forced to do a credit payment and not be allowed to charge you fees for using credit because they're forcing you to use credit You don't have to shop there but if you are and they won't take your cash but yet they charge you like $8 to use a credit card or $4 or $3 what is there something that says that they can't do that if they do not accept cash?
@@eddarby469 The statement is 'legal tender for all debts...' Tender is an offer of payment. Currency is used to represent money through paper, coin, or other objects).
@@PCFLSZ Well, it seems like you're telling me that English doesn't mean what it says. So what does the statement mean? How should we understand the meaning of the statement?
@@eddarby469When you present cash, you are tendering an offer to pay with paper currency. The recipient is not required to accept your offer (excepting state and local laws that require acceptance).
@@eddarby469 You quoted the words on the bill incorrectly, I didn't change any definitions. When you present cash, you are making an offer to pay (tender) with paper federal reserve notes (currency). No entity or person is required to accept your offer to pay in cash unless it is a government body or a state/local law mandates such.
I knew a guy when we were young that copied some doller bills and put them through a laundry matt bill changer. I think he got 5 or 10 bucks worth of quarters. He, shortly thereafter, enlisted in the service and left town. The Feds came and found him several years later at his duty station and held him accountable for counterfeiting money.
Back in the 80's I saw a statement from the Treasury Department saying that currency bills must be accepted for debts but sales are not debts, rather they are transactions. If there is no agreement to pay in the future, there is no debt. Cash money on the barrelhead is not a debt payment.
Well if you eat at a restaurant you are billed so they have to accept it. Unless clearly stated cash not accepted, which is why you see no credit cards or accept certain cards.
Not exactly, I never carry cash and I don't go to places that don't accept debit cards (very few and far between). It's a lot more convenient to simply swipe or insert my card than to fumble over a bunch of loose change and ragged old bills that have probably been in a strippers butt crack.
in Massachusetts requiring businesses to accept cash is based on Chapter 151B, Section 3 of the Massachusetts General Laws. This law states that it is illegal for retail establishments to refuse to accept legal tender, including cash, as a form of payment. The Massachusetts Attorney General's Office has also emphasized that businesses must accept all forms of legal tender to ensure consumer protection and economic justice. New Jersey and Rhode Island have similar laws. San Fran and Philly have a law but not sure those laws are legal per your description.
I think NYC passed a law that all businesses had to accept cash as payment. The businesses were doing it to exclude a certain class of people coming into their store.
the federal reserve is not an arbiter of law. citing it when referencing what is "legal" is a logical fallacy. the federal reserve is also not a public institution but a private bank. it also is illegitimate and anti-constitutional.
As someone whose wife opened a retail business in 2021, I can tell you that Pennsylvania requires accepting cash. PA 73 P.S. § 204-1 "Cash Consumer Protection Act." (06/JUL/1984) requires all businesses accept cash. Our lawyer said she could have provided a "gift card" vending machine where customers could convert cash to gift-cards as a way to avoid having her staff (who have Intellectual or Developmental Disability), have to learn to handle cash. We ended up just working hard with the cashiers to properly handle cash...
It may be hard to unintentionally mutilate US coins, but I've had a few pass through my hands. No fraud, or any other attempt to change value, etc., somehow they just became damaged. Had no trouble spending any of them.
Massachusetts general laws part III Title IV Chapter 255D Section 10A Section 10A: Discrimination against cash buyers Section 10A. No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer. I believe this was done to protect lower income people who might not have a bank account.
I thought I remembered from my childhood (back in the 70's) a case where it was ruled that cash could not be refused as payment. From my memory, here in South Carolina, we used to have a grocery store where you could pay your utility bills. Most everyone paid by check. The story as I recall was that someone wanted to pay by cash, but was refused. It went to court, where it was ruled that cash had to be accepted. However, when I tried to look this up, all I found was a bill, H.3694, introduced on 1/12/2023, stating: "Any establishment that holds a retail license to do business in this State must accept cash payments for transactions." This is still a bill, so my memory must have been wrong, but it may be that soon, businesses will not be able to refuse cash payments in SC.
Read my comment. If You purchase something from someone it is a contract contracts require both parties to consent. It’s not a one way street…who cares if you have cash. It’s up to the seller to agree.
@@jamesm.3967 I agree with that premise. Unfortunately, there's the aspect of "enforceability" which the government(s) provide conditions under which they will support a side in a dispute. My understanding is that Legal Tender payment is enforceable.
@@KutWrite If you have a debt then yes, payment in USD is required to be accepted so long as it is reasonable. (you couldn't pay in nitroglycerine soaked pennies in a mason jar for example) Debts are different from a voluntary exchange. If someone doesn't want to accept your cash then no contract is made and no debt is made.
Diminution (to make smaller) laws possibly refers to coins made of gold of silver. Take the coin and shave a little bit of gold/silver off the coin. You have made the coin ‘smaller’ and have some gold/silver to keep when you pass the coin on. Like peeling a potato. You keep the peelings, pass the potato on. It’s why most coins have a knurled edge, so it can be seen if someone has stolen part of the silver/gold that make up he coin. If you make 100 dollars worth of gold coins 1% smaller in weight you have a dollars worth of gold, and also 100 dollars worth of coins.
I used to work for a state government agency. At one point I lost my ID. When I went to get a replacement, they would not accept cash or credit cards only checks or money orders. I haven’t carried around a checkbook for decades so I had to make a special trip to a bank just to get a money order. Very annoying
The thing that gets me is that the DMVs near me will not accept cash, but only cheque or money orders. Yes, a government agency accepting something from a private company as payment, but _not_ its own currency.
Years ago, a snack machine at my workplace would spit out Sacagawea dollars for change. At a local store, I wanted to buy an item and tried to use some of the extra Sacagawea dollars that I had. The owner (and not nicely) told me he would not accept that b-le-e-p. So...I took my business elsewhere.
States such as New Jersey, Massachusetts and Rhode Island have laws in place that prohibit businesses from banning cash. San Francisco and Philadelphia have also passed similar laws. New York City will also join other cities in requiring businesses to accept cash starting Nov. 19.
What about the guy who paid a fast food restaurant with a 200 dollar bill with his own picture on the front and the slogan: "Don't Trust Anybody" on it. They made change and then the manager saw the bill and ran and in front of the car and called the cops? The cops came, arrested the guy for counterfeiting. They called the FBI and the FBI refused to respond. Why didn't they show up? It's not illegal to print a non-existent denomination especially if it blatantly had his picture on it and a picture of his house on the back. They told the restaurant that since they took the bill and gave change for it, they had accepted it as money and they were out the loss. THEN the guy sued the restaurant for false arrest. Cool! Great scam! My son worked at that Arby's in Hemet, CA in 1992.
US paper currency does say “This note is legal tender for all debts, public or private.” Of course if I am trying to buy something and the sale is refused I have no debt, the store is simply declining my offer to buy, but if I purchase an item or service on credit I have incurred debt. Can I then insist the creditor accept cash?
The way I understand it, they can't declare a non payment of debt if you put a stack of money on the table. They might refuse to actually take cash, but they can't re-posses your car or house or whatever collateral is at stake. However, some banks nowadays charge handling fees for cash payments.So you might have to pay extra for them to actually accept the payment.
@@peregreena9046 The problem is; It is technically illegal to not accept cash in America, or to charge a handling fee of any kind. That being said, by many of the highest America laws, the entire economic system and the USD itself is technically illegal since August 13, 1971. When Nixon signed the order to abandon the gold standard. So, there is actually an argument that can be made, that America technically has no currently legal form of payment other than gold or silver, and the american government is responsible for the theft of 100,000's tons of gold and silver from It's citizens. Mainly, because they seized all privately owned gold and silver at the time they founded the Federal Reserve. Mainly, because it was and still is required by law that they back ever USD issued by an unchanging amount of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource. So, short answer is; It is very complicated, and the entire situation is both illegal and screwed beyond belief.
@@charlie6629 The thing is that is why it is actually illegal, as well as the entire current system. Which I already noted. The thing is under the highest of American laws banks do not legally have the right to issue valid American currency. This means the credit system and loan systems are both illegal, as they are effectively issuing American currency. Also, based on the highest of laws on this subject, the federal reserve is the only entity that can issue valid American currency. Furthermore, each and every bill issued must be backed by a unchanging amount of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource. Thus, the gold standard existed until, convicted criminal, and Ex-president Nixon illegally put a stop to it. Technically, America has had no legal tender at all since that point, by America's highest laws. This is regrettable but true. This is why I noted it is supposed to be illegal to not accept the USD as payment. Which is why it says usable for all debts public and private on the bill. This was in the founding documents of the federal reserve, it's authorities, and what they were required to abide by. However, by the exact same requirements/documents, America doesn't technically have any legal tender at all since Nixon removed the gold standard. Mainly, due to the requirements to actually back any valid currency issued, with the prior noted unchanging resources. Thus, every USD printed after that point was technically a criminal action. Any valid American currency was and still is, literally required to be as good as gold. The problem is just The American government doesn't seem to care about any of it's own laws. They also, clearly don't care about any treaties, or trade agreements they have/had. This is all the case nearly all of the time excluding when it benefits them. America is a nation which unilaterally breaks it's own laws, violates international treaties, violates trade agreements often with little to no reason. The American government then expects others to abide by the very things they themselves one-sidedly broke/break all of the time. None of this is new mind you, it has been constantly the Case, to varying degrees, for around 100 to 130 years. Not just regarding issuing currency, but countless things, like I just noted. It's kind of interesting, from an informational standpoint. There is actually no nation in the past 400 years of human history, that has been documented, that has ever managed to be as illegal in it's operations, by it's own laws, as America is/has managed. Additionally, there is not one nation that I could find in the past 250 years that has broken as many treaties and trade agreements as America, and as consistently. This is even more striking because after America breaks said treaties and trade agreements, they consistently expect the other party to abide by the treaty and trade agreement they broke. Nearly always without any responsibility and/or compensation, from/by America. It is perhaps useful for a case study in narcissism. As it has and does occur on a national scale.
@@darkpoechi You write a lot for knowing little. As I stated it's just a note from the Federal Reserve. That is not under the Government. It's a useless piece of paper if the system fails. The only bill that is payable on demand as I typed earlier is a Silver Certificate with Silver coins or bars in that amount. The Federal Reserve is a private organization that stores gold as a back-up although there isn't much there anymore. Lest we forget the US in in an over 7 trillion dollar debt. Do some more research if you'd like. Good Day
It is illegal to "diminish" money because fraudsters used to carefully shave the edges of gold coins to collect gold, while still passing the coins off at face value. That is one reason coins started having "reeded" (not smooth) edges - so any shaving would be obvious.
Any store that refuses to take cash in my opinion, is suspicious. Primary reason is due to some stores having fake covers on their debit card machines solely to steal your information.
An idiot bakery opened up recently in my poor small town. They had people lined up outside as any new business gets here. But the majority of people were trying to pay cash. The majority of people were walking out empty handed. Then an employee posted a handwritten note on the door. ‘No Cash Accepted.’ Well, it killed the business. It went from being lined up, to being empty the next day. Until closing the next month. If my money isn’t green. We will take it to someone who wants it. And most of us, don’t want to be involved with any business that encourages more government regulation and intrusion in our private lives.
Had a laundry mat that wouldn’t accept cards, cash only. They were raided and shut down, turned out to be a money laundering operation that had been operating for years. Bakeries, laundromats, car wash’s, casinos, any business’s that are primarily cash are great ways to launder money.
You dont think cash is regulated heavily by the government? Also it isn’t government intruding into our lives when we use cards. It’s big corporations. That’s who benefits from our data the most. The government is just paid by big corporations to allow them to invade our privacy. BTW, get pulled over with $15k cash and see how intrusive the government (law enforcement) gets then.
@@nrgrlsd9931the government buys data from the corporations.
Awesome!!
@@WA_S_S_AWThat’s bunk. Yes of course every person or entity that is laundering money will be using cash because you can’t launder computer digits. However there are millions of businesses that accept cash that are not laundering money.
I used to work for a dry cleaner who operated out of a central plant and had a chain of several retail stores as drop off/pick up locations. I worked in several locations including ones that only employed a single clerk and occasionally a customer would present a $100 bill as payment for their order and I wouldn't have the change to break it. It was surprising to me how offended some customers would get when they couldn't pay with cash. Even though they could use check or credit card, more than once I would get the old "You can't refuse to accept legal tender!" argument. I got around that by explaining that I would be happy to accept it and they could pick up their change the following business day. Not one ever took me up on that offer.
When I was a teenager working in a little neighborhood pet store (not like the big ones that we have today), one of our regular customers came in on a Saturday and bought some feed. It was busy, so I took his twenty and gave him his change. There was something funny about it, so after the rush of customers, about an hour or so later, I went back into the drawer and pulled it out. It had 20s on the corners, but Washington's face. Someone had cleverly and carefully cut off the 1s from the corners and somehow attached twenties from other bills, in their place. I showed it to my boss, who was of course upset, because he would have to take the loss. A while later another employee spotted the customer in the village. My boss took the bill and when to find the customer. He explain the store's predicament, to which the customer replied that he had just received the bill from the bank that morning! We found out later that the customer went back to the bank with the bill and the teller couldn't tell right away what was wrong with it... until he pointed it out. To end the story... the bank took the hit on the counterfeit bill.
All the more reason to do what virtually all other countries do: different denominations have different basic colors, and even sizes can differ. The Euro has different colors for denominations.
I did a little research and this is what i came up with. Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New Jersey have state laws that private business must accept cash as payment. New York, business must accept cash as payment unless they have a machine to convert cash to a prepaid card. South Carolina, any business with a retail license must accept cash as payment. Colorado, Retail establishments must accept United States currency, with the exception of security deposits. Keep up the good work Steve, love your channel.
We have a business in Indianapolis, where the owner refuses to collect personal information on their clientele. In retaliation, the business is audited every year until they get compliance. So far they still take cash. 🇺🇸
Well, that sucks; i know of no federal law that requires collection of infirmation regarding sales of general merchandise, or of any such laws in my home state. If there are such laws in other states they are an over reach. The fact that some agency may be trying to force data collection by tax actions indicates that they have no legal basis to enforce through prosecution.
@@joelee2371 as if the current administration doesn’t have the feds routinely violating the law
I was 14 and my first job was at a gas station, this car with out of state plates pulled in and started to fill up, when done he paid in cash. I remember going to my manager and asking "Do we accept out of state cash?"
Lol. Was it confederate money?
Never trust a buck that says "New York Reserve Note"
Lmao out of state cash lmao
I took All of the strips out of a stack of 100$ I had while I was waiting for my husband to get back to our mortal room, he was still in the Navy and was extremely upset over me defacing Government property! I said to him who is even going to know I have money on me no strips to give me away to TSA my money I will do with it as I please
There was a point when states had there own money, wish I had some of that, homeless d be rich.
Colorado does have a law that require businesses to accept cash. It does have three exceptions, but we do have a law against refusing cash payments. It was enacted in 2022.
Well at least something is going right on Colorado!
Citation needed.
@ HB21-1048
I work in a supermarket and we had a $10 bill in motion picture money passed to one of our cashiers. Now I check $10 bills and up with our counterfeit detector machine. Company policy is $50 and $100 bills but being a 90s kid and $20 bills being the most counterfeited in that era I checked $20 bills as well. Now I check $10 bills as well.
Smart guy.
"all debts public and private" would seem to mean DEBTS. So a purchase that requires advanced payment would not be a debt, but suppose you ate at a restaurant that had a policy of billing afterwards. At that point its not a point of sale, but an actual debt owed. At least that's the way I always understood it, and the rule you cited doesn't seem to directly contradict that. So what would happen if you owed money to a business for services already rendered and they refuse to accept your money and instead required payment in some form that you are not even capable of paying?
As I understand, it would depend on if the business in question made clear this requirement prior to services rendered. If it was very clearly displayed that the restaurant only accepts credit card and you incurred the debt it's a contractual matter. You have contractually agreed to pay with a credit card. Otherwise if they either didn't display it or wasn't in a clearly visible location or no one told you then it's a situation where they can't sue you for non-payment because they refuse to accept payment.
You're reading way, way too much into that little phrase.
People use to shave coins. You take a small amount off the outside of the coin. When coins were gold and silver this was a serious issue. So a shaved gold coin would look normal but would be lightened. Shave enough coins and you have a nice little bit of gold, and a lot of underweight coins. Its why coins originally had serrations on the edges.
I remember in 1970 at U. C. Davis, my friend had exact cash for his tuition and the cashier wanted him to go get a cashiers’ check, for which he did not have the fee money. He argued, and the cashier called University Counsel’s office. They told her that, as a quasi-governmental office, they had to accept the cash.
I actually looked this up when my wife told me that a Cafe in my area didn't accept cash.
I had never heard of that. I figured that any place open to the public was obligated to take legal tender.
But nope.
I just hate the arbitrary double standards.
I agree that a private business should be allowed to do what they want, but obviously, they can't allow smoking. Not even in a bar, which is insane to me. I'm not a smoker, just trying to be consistent.
So personally, I believe they should be able to do what they want, even though I don't agree with them not accepting cash. But if that's the case, they should be able to allow smoking if they want and anything else they want as long as the underlying issue is legal.
Good point but a tough issue. Smoke don't stay in your wallet. The public often ends up paying for the cancer that can result from lots of exposure. So not quite the same.
And I think businesses should accept cash, too, but I'd be fine just taxing non-cash businesses more. We could call it an "inconvenience tax." At the very least, they should be required to have prominent signage.
The question, did she owe the cafe?
@x--. Anytime one creates an analogy, it can never be the same.
While it's true they are separate issues, people can choose whether or not they support the business.
If someone is worried about cancer, then they don't have to enter/support the establishment. The same as to business that doesn't accept cash. It may not be the best business practice, but they should have the freedom to do it.
The point I was trying to make is, either let capitalism police itself.
Or be consistent with the freedom that should inherently come with private business ownership.
@timwood225 We don't eat there out of principle. But if I had to guess, they wouldn't give us an opportunity to "owe" them.
If we were blindsided by their policy, we would likely pay with it via cc as per usual and simply not return.
@@x--.All second hand smoke research has been debunked.
I love how you actually answered the question within the first 30 sec. and not drag it out into a five minute intro! You’re a rare UA-camr!
A bussiness can take any kind of payment they want
I use to have a land scapeing bussiness and often time would accept tools or other items I needed if someone didn't have cash and then go trade it for something else or sell it
Called Bartering
Agreed. However the question was must a business accept cash if offered. Or can they REQUIRE you to pay by other means such as card or barter.
"use to" vs. "used to" ... there's a difference. You had a 50/50 chance, but chose the wrong one.
@@indianpaintbrush6122 Weewoo weewoo weewoo! Grammar police!
Déjà vu! Back in the 1970s it was the opposite way around, people refused credit cards.
in my country it was even in the. 90s, and they had all, kind of rules about amount and the like. They also called by phone to get the authorization number 😂
Stores and restaurants had those carbon paper slider things.
some country stores still refuse credit cards, but my company signs with them to put atm's in their store, allowing them access to cash, and the store does not have to pay the fee.
If I go into one of those places with signs saying "no bills bigger than $20 accepted", I will first ASK if my 50s or 100s are acceptable for a purchase approaching that. Say, $45 for gasoline with a 50 or a 100 bill for 85 in groceries or restaurant takeway. If okay, then I shop there. If still "no" I leave. I will NOT force the issue with the counterman because he is just a worker and can get fired by a boss who is strict.
Back in 2010 I got a fake $20 from an ATM. I called the local Sheriff, and he confirmed it was fake, gave it back and told me to take the $20, the receipt, and the report # to Bank of America, the ATM owner and get my money back. He said that happens all the time, and people pass fake money without knowing it. He said I'd only break the law if I tried to use it, now knowing it was fake.
There is a cure for this problem do not patronize these businesses and stay with it no compromise
One of my first jobs in the late 70s was at a Baskin Robbins. Lots of loose change coming and going thru the registers. I told my coworkers that any pennies with an Indian head, or any silver change minted before 1964 was counterfeit and the manager told me to take it. I swapped the change out from my money. I still have a few relatively valuable Indian head pennies from then.
The key word in the legal tender law is "debt". It means that if you _already_ owe someone money, they have to accept cash to satisfy it. However, if someone proactively refuses to transact with you because you intend to pay with cash, then you don't incur the debt to them in the first place. And they're allowed to discriminate on that basis unless state or local law says otherwise. If you trick a business into providing the good or service first when they've made it clear that they don't accept cash, then legally you can still require them to take your cash to satisfy the debt that you then have to them, but they could ban you from the business going forward or even sue you for any extra expense they incur due to your failure to pay with an accepted form of payment. (Their claim would be on the basis of breach of contract.) You could hand them cash to pay the judgment in that suit, and they couldn't sue you again for that because _that_ payment wasn't part of any contract. 😏
Maybe, but by the time you've paid their legal costs from the breach of contract suit you will have paid an awful lot for the privilege of being a smug twat.
I remember reading a article in Pennsylvania that stopped a business from refusing cash because it discriminated against the poor
Pennsylvania’s “Cash Consumer Protection Act” made it illegal for businesses “to refuse to rent or sell property or services” to consumers who don’t have credit cards.
There is a plethora of services available to everyone, in which you can get a valid bank VISA or Mastercard unsecured for the purpose of accepting company paycheck deposits, even VISA and Mastercard has card services expressly for that purpose, so there is no credit check required, but some others are, Netspend, Flex Wage Varo, and even American Express has a service too. All one has to do is look. Besides, if you aren't linked to politics, or Hollywood, we are all poor.
@@derekwalker4622 now there is
@@derekwalker4622 - That's true Derek, but have you checked out the charges for using those cards? Most are in excess of ATM fees per transaction....
@@dsruddell To what are you referring? "Now" as in this year? My friend, these cards have been around for 10+ years in one form or another. Maybe you mean "now I recently discovered them"?
I think that is the story I was thinking about.
In Massachusetts, we have G. L. c. 255D §10A, "Discrimination against cash buyers," which prohibits retail establishments from requiring the use of credit.
Debit card
Diminution - the act, process, or an instance of becoming gradually less (as in size or importance). So when coins were actually made of rare metals (like gold & silver), some people would shave off edges or "thin" the coins
And that's why dimes and quarters have those ridges along the edge of the coin. They used to be made from silver and you could easily tell if someone had tried to shave some silver from the edge
If i read it right. Michigan's SB 283 (2023) makes it illegal for retail businesses to refuse cash, making no distinction between sectors.
There are companies that make prop money, a lot of it is marked as such, in addition to missing some key elements.
The marking/altering of bills is also only illegal if it renders them unable to use. I learned this from many discussions at the Where's George website.
I have heard that the "legal tender for all debts public or private" only kicks in once a debt is incurred. So the stores that have signs that they don't take certain bills, do so because they gave notice before the debt.
I can imagine the conversation now! A 12-year-old Steve and some random adult.
Steve: "What are you, the railroad police?"
Adult: "What are you, a damn lawyer?"
The rest is history.
Arinerm....ROTFLMAO! I was thinking the same thing!
Hey Steve. I just watched this and don’t understand. Each Federal Reserve note has printed on the face “This note is legal tender for all debits, public and private.”
I also thought all U.S. businesses are required to take cash.
@@DanGumm yes, but just because it is legal tender doesn’t mean they have to take it. For that matter, with the possible exception of discriminatory cases, I don’t think anybody has to sell anybody anything. They could just say they aren’t selling it to you. They don’t even need a reason. 🤷🏼♂️🙂
Buying something in a store is not debt.
I work at a gas station/convenience store/deli outside of Baltimore. Our store (and several other district stores in our company) have been receiving fake $100 bills for almost a year.
On one Saturday night shift I received two of them, about an hour apart, with identical serial numbers. These bills are ALWAYS old (pre-1990s), faded, wrinkled, worn-out, and feel strange. I'm old enough to have handled bills from before 1980, so I know a bit about them. Each time I refused (and management backed me up) the bill, the customer was very polite and walked away without arguing.
As far as the "government" being required to accept legal tender, here is a story. My Wife and I ran into problems with the IRS where we owed money to them. We worked out a payment plan. After running into problems with "processing" checks, money orders, etc, which resulted in ever increasing penalties, we decided to pay in cash. So, with a well concealed envelope of a lot of cash, we showed up at the area IRS office to pay. Representative stepped back and stated "we don't accept cash". Hmmm. Why? Well, it seems they could not guarantee the safety of large amounts of cash at their office. "THAT is NOT my problem if you have thieves in your office". As you can imagine, that was not well received. So we ask for a supervisor. He comes out [standing out of arms reach of the cash] and repeats that they can not accept cash. I explain that each time we pay with alternate methods our debt increases due to their failure to promptly process the transaction. Supervisor says there is nothing he can do about that. "AHA, but there IS..... take this cash and give us a receipt for it dated and time stamped today". Bbbut, we have no way to safeguard it here. Well, that is your problem, not mine. I am paying my debt, and only wish a receipt stating I did so. Much shuffling around. Eventually said we cannot pay in cash. Mind you, this was NOT some sort of protest where I was paying in a barrel full of coins, just a stack of US bills. I pull a bill out of the stack and ask if this appears to be a genuine US piece of currency. He looks, and agrees it is. I point out the printing that says that said bill is "legal for all debts, public and private". Again, I ask how an arm of the US government can refuse to accept IT'S OWN CURRENCY as payment for a debt owed to them. He defaults to security of his office. I then ask that he call someone in authority above him to explain the refusal. I don't know where he went, or what he did, but he accepted the payment, counted it out [fair enuf] and issued the receipt for payment dated and timed. After a few months it became routine.
Technically, According to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver.
The USD, Credit, and any other form of currency is not legally even classified as money, it is clearly stated in all documents to be "currency".
Mainly, because under the highest laws of America the only things that may legally classify as "money" is Gold or Silver.
Thus, the only legally assured form of exchange is Gold or Silver in America.
If you are paying in gold or silver anyone selling in America would technically be required to accept it so long as the value and amount was clear.
Thus, there may need to be proceedings and things such as an appraisal before you could exchange with the gold or silver.
As for the government, creditors, and banks.
They can not decline the USD, lest the government be required to close the federal reserve, all Banks, and money changers, and be barred moving forward from implementing any method of payment that is not gold or silver.
Mainly, as America or "money changers" in or of America can not refuse the USD, Lest they lose the legal right to any form of exchange other than "Money".
As per the conditions of the founding of the current economic system.
That being said the federal reserve and banks are technically unlawful in their current form already, by other conditions in the founding of such institutions.
Here were the main conditions of said system's implementation;
1. There will be some standard, tying Any American legal tender to a set and stable equivalent of money of The United States of America, or other hard valued, and unchanging resource.
Money only includes gold or silver legally as is listed and established in the original documents.
This means all currency today is unlawful.
2. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not, lawfully print, or produce, any form of currency of The United States of America, in any amount. Thus, the federal reserve is to be founded.
So, the loan, credit system, and fractional lending system is unlawful.
3. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not have say, sway, or control, in any form, over the issuance, printing, or production of any Currency of The United States of America.
Which makes the stock system in the federal reserve unlawful.
4. Banking institutions and all other money changers, may not have say, sway, or control, in any form, over the taxes applied to any Citizen, dealing, or debt created in or by The United States of America.
Which makes many things unlawful. So, I won't get entirely into that.
5. All lawfully issued currency of The United States of America, will be accepted as legal tender for all debts public or private.
The "All private debts" means this does wholly include any "Private Company" doing business in America.
Unless they are giving things away for free thus establishing no "Private debts" at any point.
You can not owe anyone any thing of any kind if there was not a agreement of a "Private or Public Debt" established.
This is the case beyond refute.
Otherwise Legally all banks, money changers, and the federal reserve must be legally abolished, and may not be replaced.
Returning us to the trade of gold and silver system.
6. All prior established Debts, public or private, of The United States of America, May still be pursued lawfully, in such manner as prior to the implementation of Federal Reserve Notes of The United States of America.
"Federal Reserve Notes of The United States of America" are the current USD.
So, technically Private companies can decline the USD. The only thing they are not allowed to decline is gold or silver.
However, under the same merit technically the Government is required to shut down the federal reserve, all banks, and all Money changers (Such as creditors.)
And issue gold, silver, or some other hard valued and unchanging resource, for every single USD in the nation.
This is required to be done at the value of the USD vs gold, and silver, at the time Ex-president Nixon unlawfully abandoned the gold standard
So, in short the entire American Economy in it's current form is illegal, and the situation is screwed.
Also, the American Government doesn't abide by any laws and doesn't care.
Honestly I understand.
The one thing most people, especially leaders, and especially in America agree on, no matter their affiliation is as follows;
Personal Interest > Greater Good.
@@darkpoechi The Supreme Court would disagree with you over the Constitutionality of federal currency, having upheld the "Legal Tender Act of 1862" multiple times. No offense, but I'll take their word for it over some random posting on UA-cam. I believe you're misinterpreting the fact that States are explicitly prohibited in the Constitution (Article I Section 10) from issuing legal tender in any form other than gold or silver. No such prohibition is placed on the federal government.
@@NorthernKitty First you did create a bit of a straw man there.
Perhaps, because you just skimmed my post, instead of actually reading it.
Seems a common problem given the length and lack of some people's attention spans, and my long winded nature.
This being said, this is the one where I didn't already explain in as much depth.
Also, you are the second to clearly fail to grasp what you read before replying, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that.
As such, I will explain again the part you clearly didn't understand.
The Constitution states that all depts must be paid in gold or silver, and gold and silver are the only legal forms of "money".
However, the federal reserve was founded later, with laws and documents detailing what was and was not allowed by the federal reserve.
This was in part due to the difficulty of large gold and silver transactions.
They were as such, allowed to issue "Federal Reserve Notes" (What we call the USD today) due to this.
They are by extension not classified as "money" and are instead referred to as "currency" in all legal documents that are beholden and drafted to the standards of proper American law.
The very documents that allowed the issuance of Federal Reserve Notes, more commonly known as the USD.
Also, made the federal reserve a legal entity.
However, those same documents, required the federal reserve, be able to legally issue USD, only when it was tied to a set and unchanging standard of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource.
Hence the "gold standard".
This was, as you noted challenged in the Supreme Court, as to if the gold standard was enough to allow the lawful trade in paper currency.
It was ruled to be so in 1862, like you stated.
However, this was still with the caveat and requirement of the gold standard, which did exist at the time.
If it did not it can not in anyway be called legal.
Not by the constitution, or even the legal documents that allowed for the founding of the federal reserve, and issuance of the USD to start with.
However later, President Nixon, who was found guilty of high crimes, and successfully impeached as a result.
Unlawfully remove the gold standard.
This occurred on August 13 1971.
Well, after, and in direct opposition to the 1862 supreme court ruling.
Thus, by extension rendering the current system of currency, banking, loans, credit, and even the mere existence of the federal reserve, unlawful by the following;
The constitution, the 1862 Supreme Court ruling, and a few others, and even the very documents that originally allowed for the founding of the federal reserve, and issuance of the USD as a substitute for gold and silver.
Furthermore, those very same documents mandated that the USD would be usable for "All depts both public and private."
Thus, requiring any company, private or public who wishes to do business in America, to accept the USD.
Additionally, the Government, banks, and all money changers of any kind are also required to accept the USD if they wish to exist and do business in America.
Then again The entire thing is illegal as the USD is required to be backed by an unchanging amount of silver, gold, or some other form of hard valued resource.
For those who don't understand what a hard valued resource is, Diamonds, platinum, or any precious resource with a similar value to gold or silver can qualify.
So long as it is equated to the value of gold or silver at the value of the gold standard.
For example; silver is more than gold so less silver is equal to more gold.
Gold would be worth more than platinum thus less gold is needed than platinum to back the USD.
Also, the amount is to be $35 per ounce of gold or the equivalent resource and is not allowed to change, in accordance with the laws.
Mind you, that is very much not the case currently as 1 oz of gold is not $35, but $1619.75.
Which means the Government is 46.27 times less than their requirement to be allowed to issue and trade in The USD, and in fact anything not gold or silver.
However, by the laws that allow the current economic system of paper currency as a substitute for gold or silver, The Federal Reserve must have on hand 1 oz of gold for every $35 or an equivalent resource, and be able to exchange them if required, at that value.
Thus, ensuring the value of the USD as a gold or silver equivalent, as required by legal standards.
Not that they are required to exchange it however, they must have it on hand at that value and be able to exchange it, at that value, such as to ensure it is a legal substitute.
The USD should be as good as gold, literally, or it is not legal, nor is any of the current economic systems.
I also find it important to note that when the federal reserve was founded, as all USD had to be backed by gold or silver.
The Federal reserve seized all privately owned gold and silver at the time, and issued the equivalent in USD, or Federal Reserve Notes.
As such, not backing it by those merits makes the American government also responsible for the theft of hundreds of thousands of tons of gold and silver from it's citizens.
Sorry, but your understanding of both history, law, and the economic systems/economic situation of America fall short.
@@darkpoechi No "straw man" at all, you EXPLICITLY stated "according to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver." I EXPLICITLY responded that this is incorrect and there are Supreme Court rulings that say as much. (Knox v. Lee and Parker v. Davis, for example.) I also cited where in the Constitution you may have erred in your interpretation.
Pretty direct response to your direct assertion. I don't think "straw man" means what you think it means. (In fact, your response is really the "straw man" here, moving on to entirely different arguments, failing to cite where in the Constitution the fed is limited to gold and silver as legal tender.)
Stay on point, son. You assert the Constitution prohibits it, I said it doesn't. Please cite in the Constitution where the feds (not the States) are prohibited from issuing paper currency, or Supreme Court cases where they say as much. No more unrelated ramblings, nor any "what they really meant was" - specific Constitutional clause, Supreme Court rulings or you're just some random guy wildly ranting on the internet about their own convenient personal interpretation of what the Constitution means, and I'm getting tired of that garbage.
@@NorthernKitty Absolutely a Straw a man.
You responded to a part of the post, while ignoring the rest of the post.
Thus, actively taking it out of context.
When further clarified on the part you actively ignored.
Which was most of the original post, mind you.
You then ignored it a second time.
So, 100% strawman.
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If that isn't a straw man by definition.
Then it would be Legitimate to say you 100% admit I am right in your last post, by the exact same methods and logic.
Mainly, because your last post said,
"according to the constitution the only legally guaranteed tender, in America, is gold or silver."
If I was to actively ignore all of the context of that statement.
In the Exact same manner you did, for my original post, and the post that post is responding to.
Then it would be you agree.
Only in the context of the rest of the post does it not mean that you agree, and instead contest my points.
Do you not see the flaw in your entire logic until now given that is exactly what you have done this entire time?
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Also, I already addressed the only actual point you made in your post that was in any way legitimate, in my reply.
Namely, the supreme court rulings.
Nixon later ignored them, and acted in direct opposition to them.
Thus, making the current system unlawful.
He was even found guilty of those crimes, and others as well.
He did the same for the documents that allowed for the founding of the Federal Reserve, and issuance of paper currency, and by the constitution as well, in this process.
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But hey, You would already have been aware of all of this if you were not actively ignoring it to make a straw man instead.
Mainly, because all of this was already explained and said in the prior 2 posts, in much greater detail.
With the only point you made that was in any way legitimate already countered completely.
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When the court rules that me having a bond fire in my yard, isn't lighting your house on fire, as long as it is kept to the firepit in my yard, when you take me to court.
That is no longer the case after I take a burning stick out of the bond fire and actually light your house on fire.
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You clearly are either malicious and dishonest, or an idiot who lacks all understanding of legality, History, The Economy, Logic on the level of a 10 year old, and may well be illiterate as well.
This is based wholly on your own posts in responses to mine.
I would advise you be a more reasonable person if you wish not to look like a complete idiot in the future.
The penny press machines are also at the service plaza on the Florida turnpike. I am reasonably certain that on those machines is the federal statute exempting them from the statutes criminalizing altering, defacing coins. Next time you see a penny press look to see if the statute is posted on the machine.
Dimunition of currency was relevant when coins were made of silver. They could shave silver from the coin and still go spend it. That's why dimes, quarters, dollars& half dollars are ridged around the edges...to reveal shaving.
Historically this was called “clipping” after the way the irregularly shaped coins of ancient times had excess metal removed down to the correct weight - by clipping. So, filing and scraping was still called “clipping.”
He is correct on this, remember at the end of the day the federal reserve note is " Fiat" currency. It has no backing behind it. A long time ago, during the days of Woodrow Wilson, they gave control of the money supply to a cartel of private bankers. So today instead of gold or silver notes we have Federal reserve notes. Which is a central bank currency.
Massachusetts Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A: "No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer."
That is a state law, and is not a federal law. So in the state of Massachusetts then yes all transactions must include cash as an option, but in a state where a similar law does not exist then no cash is not required as the fall back is to federal law.
Does this also apply in Virginia?
This law does not strictly require cash be always immediately be accepted at face value, it only prevents a business from only accepting credit. In particular, it doesn't prohibit a business requiring debit cards or cheques or barter or the currency of a different country be used to pay (all of which are not credit). It also doesn't prohibit a business from instituting reasonable policies aimed at reducing risks (like only accepting cash when the sun is out, only accepting small bills, or only accepting the actual money being handed over in a secure location and time of the sellers' choice). It also doesn't prohibit cash handling fees.
It was aimed at car dealerships and real estate brokers who had shady arrangements with banks who offered loans, requiring buyers to take out a loan for large purchases from the bank which gave a kickback to the business.
In short, the law doesn't require a business to increase the amount of risk it is willing to accept in any way. It only basically imposes the obligation, really, to be willing to come to a compromise with someone who only wants to pay cash.
For example, a business would be perfectly within the bounds of the law to say "OK, I'll accept cash, but I'll only hand over the ownership of the product when I receive the cash, and I'll only accept the cash in the local bank or police station between 9am and 10am on Monday morning, after we've both counted it in view of a camera - for my own security. "
If the item you are arguing over is a loaf of bread, then it's sort of not worth it.
When I was in college, a friend was the lead cashier for a branch of a very well known luxury department store. She told me that they had a huge run of counterfeit bills passed during the Christmas holidays. One thief would buy something from a busy clerk with a handful of twenties, with a number of double sided (black and white!) counterfeit Xerox copies slipped in the wad. Additionally, an accomplice would distract the cashier as they rang up the transaction.
I was on vacation with my family when I was a kid and my parents stopped at the bank to pick up cash to pay for stuff like a fan boat rental and whatever. The bank gave them hundred-dollar bills and all of them turned out to be phony, but the only person who recognized it was the guy at the rental place. He was nice enough about it and realized that my folks weren't trying to scam him, so he didn't call the police. Our next stop on that vacation was to the bank - and then the police got involved. lol
Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island all have some form of law requiring that retailers accept cash.
Very cool. I'd like to see where that is written. Thanks.
@@bicyclist2 Very cool. We look forward to you getting off your ass and doing your own research. After all the hard part is done....
@@I_Am_Your_Problem "We look forward to you getting off your ass and doing your own research." Translation: I'm too f-ing lazy to do the research so just accept my claim without evidence. Let ME introduce you to Hitchen's Law: That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." So, I_Am_Your_Problem, you are dismissed along with your claim until YOU provide the evidence.
Back when I was a kid, I knew a guy who owed another guy a debt. He tried to pay it off in cash. The debt was on a payment plan and guy #1 was trying to pay it off. Guy#2 refused the cash payoff. A Judge ruled the debt paid because guy #2 had refused cash.
Lots of people tell that story. Nobody ever has a citation.
Some 30 years ago I was a retailer, and once in a while a dissatisfied customer would come to our office with a wheel barrel full of pennies. I would show them on a one dollar bill where it says Legal tender for all debts public and private. Then I would ask him to go through his pennies and show me one that had that statement. A little bit of a ruse but It always ended the argument.
Or you could have just told them to get the fuck out of your store before you called the cops.
Steve, I love the "show me the citation." As a cop, I often get told: "I want them arrested." They then describe what happened and when it turns out to not be a crime I explain it to them. Sometimes they dig in and explain how they know it's a crime and I should charge them. I then simply ask, "Can you show me the statute? Then if the elements fit what you are saying I will be happy to charge them." No one has taken me up on it.
It's actually amazing what people think is illegal when, in fact, it is not.
They are doing this at sport's venues and concerts now. I think the reason for this is the venue gets 10% of total sales. The venue is afraid that they will not get their 10% if people pay with cash. At the soccer stadium across the street Geodis Stadium a hotdog, cup of fries, and a bottle of water is $30 plus tax. 10% ads up quick. They want to make sure they get it.
Back in the late 70s, I worked in a bank in Yakima, WA. National Geographic had an issue which had a full sized $100 Travelers Check on it's back cover. Someone there gathered many copies of that issue, cut out the "checks", pasted white paper on the reverse side and then passed the phoney $100 checks around town to various merchants during a weekend. No, the "checks" didn't "feel like" regular checks, or even "look "right when examined closely. But a large number were accepted by store clerks because National Geographic did not print any disclaimer of actual value on the advertisement. We discovered these "checks" when several of our commercial customers deposited them on Monday.
I bet that was an utter crap show on Monday. lol
General Laws of Massachusetts, Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A. No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer.
MA, RI and NJ have laws that require businesses to take cash.
MA: General Law - Part III, Title IV, Chapter 255D, Section 10A
RI Gen L § 6-13.1-30 (2019)
N.J. Stat. § 56:8-2.33
There are many places that feel if they accept cash they could be robbed. For example, if you rent a storage unit, it's safer for them to accept other payments. If you're a senior living in a senior community such as a mobile home part, it is much safer to accept electronic payments. Since this is America I believe the business owner has full authority as to what they will accept as payment.
You are probably seeing this more than once, but there's a portion on the upper left hand corner on the front of the note that says this note is legal tender for all debts public and private. The private aspect is the one that says an individual must accept that as a way of remuneration for services rendered for any other legal debt that been incurred from my understanding cuz it's on the front of the note. Is that your take on this? If not then what is a private debt?
I went to a C-Store and when l tried to pay with a $50. They said that they had to copy my photo I.D. I told them keep their goods and left.
Somewhere in the UCC, it says a debt is canceled if legal tender is offered and refused.
And yet you can't provide the statute...
@@I_Am_Your_Problem Not presently. I'm 67 years old and college was a long time ago. But, you have the internet, and if it's that important to you......
As others have pointed out below, there are states that require businesses to accept cash - laws have been passed since this video was published. Oregon and Massachusetts are two.
Here in Colorado the legislature passed a bill HR1048 that requires businesses to accept cash, unless it's a business that has no physical personal on property. Things such as do it yourself car washes, some laundry mats and a few other exceptions.
CHEERS from Colorado
Many years ago i was running a construction jobsite, and told my guys i would buy lunch if we could wrap up that Friday. I took my paycheck to a bank a few doors from the jobsite to cash it. Before everybody had Debit card/machined. Told the lady i wanted nothing larger than a $20. ( another story about trying to pay $146 gas purchase using a$100bill). So i walked out of the bank to a pizza shop in the same parking lot and ordered 8 pizzas. I proceeded to peel off $20 bills to pay for my pizzas. The cashier began running them through a counterfeit detecting machine which proceeded to kick out 8 of 34 . So while waiting on my pizzas i walked back to the bank, explained to the cashier the situation. She brought over the manager who told me " all i can do is turn them over to the FBI to be sure, but i can't give you your money back. I regret to this day that i was a very loyal employee and told her " never mind, i will use them for buying gas". ( still mad over the $100bill incident). Later i thought, who better to pass counterfeit money than that snotty bank manager.
@@genegene3348 I knew stores could withhold the counterfeit if given and detected, and retail can’t give money back. But a bank? A bank that didn’t detect counterfeit sounds strange, plus taking your pay, seems like they owed you money. It would be the person who gave counterfeit to the bank would have lost it if detected-- guilty or incompetent victim….,
I just bought a new GE Single Wall Oven from Home Depot on Valentines Day. I told the sales clerk that I had cash and Gift Cards when I went to checkout and would the cash would be a problem. She had to get the Store Manager to ok taking my $100 dollar bills. She had to examine then mark the bills then hand them off to the manager and he did exactly the same thing. The funny thing was I had 9 $100 bills and the store gave me credit for 10 $100 bills. I looked puzzled and did the right thing and said you gave me an extra credit of $100. The manager snapped back and said no they didn’t make a mistake. At that point I shrugged my shoulders and said “sounds good to me”.I walked out to my truck sat down and said Happy Valentines Day to me. Love Your Stories
The law can be very confusing so I am grateful for lawyers like you that take time out to help the average person understand. Stay cool!😊
At certain stores, at certain times of day (like NIGHT), that have limited tills, you should know better than to leave yourself a hundred as your only option. It's akin to running your gas-tank down to fumes and getting in a pinch. You need a plan B, even a C. It doesn't matter if the small store has cashed it for you before. It could've just been shift change.
"Sorry, where were you 5 minutes ago? I just dropped all the money". You can't imagine how much that happens like Murphy's Law. You wait and wait for that last-minute hundred, then make your drop and there they are! It's downright spooky.
You buy a pack of Backwoods with a hundred (and that's a huge red flag to look real hard at that bill), what you need to understand, is that when I give you $95 & something back, my $200 drawer is $95 lighter. There's nothing I can do with that hundred but admire it or drop it. It's Schroedinger's hundred - it's there, yet it isn't there. Can't trade it back for anything unless someone comes in and says "I need to get rid of all these twenties". I don't have a magic machine that can dispense more bills. I have a finite till. No you won't take smaller bills. That's the entire point. When I run out of smaller bills, I'm out of business until morning.
People like to try & hang it on you and make a fuss over "customer service". What do you want me to do? You should've known better.
California State Parks do not take cash. A few years ago when I visited Yosemite National Park. To pay the park entrance fee, I handed her cash for the exact amount. I think it was $35. I was told they didn't accept cash. I commented to her "the government doesn't accept their own money"? She replied "no, only credit or debit card". I personally think there is something wrong with that.
While I agree with you in principle, there was no debt involved. Perfectly constitutional for them to refuse cash when pre-paying for a service before any contract was made.
@@scotttwapple
Taking cash, particularly in a isolated area, leaves the clerk exposed to theft and personal harm. Also, can leave the retail owner exposed to employee theft.
Conterfit story: I worked in a casino back in the 90’s and my Floor guy was fairly new, nervous and kind of a jerk. It was a really busy weekend night on a crap game. I hand in a $100 bill to the Boxman and lean over and say that they may want to check that bill out. I was completely messing with them, as far as I could tell, it’s a legit bill. The Boxman looks at it and calls the Floor over. I’m chuckling to myself as he’s taking this way too seriously. I forget about it and contiune on, the joke has been played. Sometime later security comes over and has the guy who handed me the bill step away from the game. Turns out it really was a bad bill. The best part was, the guy says he got the bill from the cash cage. They run back the video and sure enough, the casino was passing bad bills to the customers. At this point I just shut up and deal.
😂😂😂😂
I had this happen at a restaurant. Nothing was posted at the business. No signs, nothing on the menu etc... I told them CA$H or nothing. They said that they would call the police if I failed to pay. I told them to call, that I would wait for them. They decided to let me leave. When other customers saw this, they did the same too.
_They didn't take your cash?_ That's some crazy talk.
This is one instance in which I would side with you in a court of law. If a business doesn't want to accept cash for transactions, that's fine, but they must indicate "no cash accepted" or a similar message on some type of sign that's easily visible to the public. The fact that this business didn't do that means their "right to refuse service" does not apply this time and they must face legal ramifications for deceptive business practices.
I remember back in the 1960s in GA a man tried to pay a debt with a check. He was cursed at and was told he had to pay the debt in cash. He later returned with a pickup loaded down with coins. The man who insisted on cash accepted the coins as payment as everyone there was under the impression that if legal tender was rejected for payment of a debt it would void the debt. I often wonder if that law ever existed and if so what happened to it.
Excellent advice (as usual). Case in point:
I'm a landlord with 16 apartments. In the lease, I clearly state "Under no circumstances will cash be accepted. Check, MO or electronic transfers only." Saved my a@@ in court each time.
You went to court? Why not just point to the lease? You're saying someone said this is cash take it or you don't get your rent and you refused it? Out of the fue times that would happen I find it foolish not to take the cash and go to court. Far more bad checks are passed then bad cash.
@@tomtransport Yes, I did (and will) refuse outright cash. Some tenants will go to court saying they paid me in cash when they didn't thus giving the judge a 50/50 chance of believing them.
Some tenants will pay partial rent in cash then complain later that it was full.
-By hey, you run your apartments your way, let me run mine my way.
@@mathewm7136 Good luck.
@@tomtransport for every problem there is a remedy.
I don't do business with retailers that don't accept cash. If my cash is no good, then your business is no good. I don't recommend businesses that don't accept cash, and I have no issues with recommending their competitors to friends and family.
Incidentally, I've seen many businesses that don't accept cash go out of business. While correlation isn't causation, it can be a major contributing factor.
Not in Philly. They banned the Cashless transactions.
In the early eighties during a driver's Ed class, we had to cross a toll bridge. Because of how it worked, the kids had to pay the buck fifty. We had five cents with the change when we crossed and the toll attendant had a cow, saying she would not accept pennies. Well, or US Government and Civics teacher was also the driver's Ed teacher. He informed her as a government agent she was required to. We were allowed to go to a mini mart during our training so we could get 15o pennies. We held up traffic as he made her count them all on the way back through. It was a civics lesson I won't soon forget.
What was the lesson, how to induce road rage in others? How to selfishly delay innocent people just trying to go about their day to prove some sort of point?
@@flamingsickle The lesson was, I think, for us. Although businesses can set their own policy, the government must accept currency. Please note, it was a slow traffic day and few people were delayed.
I think all businesses and government agencies should be legally required to accept cash as payment because the words “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private” appear on every bill denomination. “Public” referring to any government agency and “private” referring to any business that operates within the country and its territories.
Ok, but when purchasing an item, that is not a debt obligation. It is a transaction, which implies mutual consent of both parties. Businesses are not obligated to sell you something just because they have it. Their only obligation is to not use your membership in a protected class as the reason. Having cash in hand does not make you a protected class in itself. I know restaurants that hate having to make the trip to the bank because 90%+ of their business is from cards. Taking cash means having change, taking the sales to the bank, entering additional data into accounting systems, needing cashiers to count the change, and being vulnerable to theft via robbery or employee misconduct. It can be a hassle, and an expense. I personally like cash, but their right to refuse is very much just as important.
@@jonqu7041 I understand your reasoning, however, if we all used cash instead of credit cards, imagine how much money would be saved in transaction fees. The savings in transaction fees would easily cover the additional cost of paying an employee to count the register and go to the bank when necessary. Using cash also eliminates the problems associated with technical glitches in the card readers that would force businesses that do not accept cash to lose sales until the technical issue is resolved. Refusing to sell an item to a customer because they want to pay in cash is only hurting the business because the policy of “credit or debit only” loses sales to cash customers.
A lot of food shops at the mall don’t even have cashiers, just a tablet and car reader.. ring yourself up, makes it easier to skip the tip..
If I remember correctly the stuff about altering coins was from the days when most coins were made from a higher percentage of gold and silver. People would shave off some of the metal from the edges of the coins. They would then save up the shavings to sell for the gold or silver. That is also why most coins now have a textured edge so as to make it harder to shave the edges without it being noticeable.
That was one of the reasons. Really useless coin collector trivia: In the 1960s there was a coin shortage (first in the US, then a couple of years later in Canada) as silver coins were pulled from circulation by people who realized that the silver was worth more than the coin's face value. In 1968, the Philadelphia mint used some of its excess capacity to mint some of the 1968 dimes for Canada. You can tell which coins were produced in Philly vs. Ottowa because the reeding on the edge was shaped differently.
The metal used in coins is worthless. Maybe they did that during the Roman empire, but we are not living in the Roman empire. No one would do that in the modern world.
@@Tugela60 True, but it's still done partly for tradition, and partly to help the blind distinguish between things like a cent and a dime.
@@Tugela60 Please do some research, early coins in the U.S were made primarily from silver, gold and copper. They even had arrangements were citizens could bring their own gold, silver and copper to the mints to be made into coins. Silver was still being used for coins up into the 1960's. Silver dollars weren't called that just because of their color - they use to actually be made from silver. I use to be into coin collecting and still own a couple of the old silver dollars and silver dimes. While the metal in coins now do not contain much value they still out of tradition retain the ridges along the sides that were put there back when the did, As I stated above the ridges were added back when the coins contain valuable metals to discourage filing the edges down to obtain the metal for selling separately. The US government to further discourage this they even later went as far as making it illegal for the common citizens to own gold except as jewelry. This ban was only removed after gold was no longer used in common coins.
@@rhondaflesher8313 Do some research yourself. Coins in circulation are made from cheap metal, the milling around them is for decorative purposes, NOT because people are filing them. There is no point.
A few years ago I went to a restaurant with my wife for dinner (go figure). At the end of the meal I go to pay and I'm told the policy is to not accept cash. I asked where that is posted in the restaurant. He said it's not posted anywhere as "Everybody" knows that's his policy. I explained I was not carrying credit cards. He called the police. I explained that the restaurant has not posted anywhere that they do not accept cash for meals so there is no way for somebody to know their policy before they eat there. Police looked at the owner and told him he was out of luck. Food wasn't that good anyway, free or not.
Thank God the police had some sense in this case.
Credit/Debit Card companies charge the stores a1.5 to 5% charge, which the stores are passing to the customer now.
Didn't even know about "motion picture money" until I had some friends with a small business have had a big increase in people trying to pay for goods at conventions with it. They ended up getting a fancy bill counting machine to more quickly test ALL bills they're given vs having to examine and test with a pen every individual bill in a large stack of them. That was after they missed a couple and didn't know about it until the bank found it. They've lost enough money in un-caught fakes that it was worthwhile to buy a fairly high end counting machine that is very picky about testing bills.
I got passed a fake $100 - at a wells fargo not long ago.
If it wernt for the fact I was a cop, I'd have been stuck with it.
Got a fake 20 out of a bank atm before too.
What's even more strange is that they were fairly obvious, they should have been able to spot the difference of the one bill that was just slightly off from the rest.
How about writing on or defacing currency? Fun Fact? Most cash is outside the country, upwards of 75%. Only a small amount is in the US. The US government has been pushing for decades to go 100% digital. As of now I believe both the one cent coin and nickels cost more to produce then their marked value. Always wondered if the recycling value is higher than spending them.
Research _'short snorters'_ of World War Two.
I can see why a business in a high crime area might not want to accept cash. Less chance of robbery/burglary if never cash on the premises and signs that say that. Otherwise doesn’t make sense because businesses must pay a fee for each credit transaction.
I once had a store owner refuse to take 4 Sacagawea dollars that I had for a $4 item. He said: "I don't take that sh**, go get me something better." I had a lot of Sacagawea dollars because the vending machine at work gave them as change. That said, I stopped shopping at that store.
I've never even seen one of those before.
Around 1979 they issued the Susan B. Anthony dollar which was about the same size and appearance as a quarter. When we used to go to the board walk to play games at AstroWorld you could occasionally put a dollar in the change machine and get four Susan B. Anthonys as change. Eventually, vending machine tolerances caught up and could tell the difference between a Susan B and a quarter but I think one of the reasons they stopped making them is that people were mistaking them for quarters too. I also think it is the reason that the Sacagawea dollar was gold in color. I believe its dimensions are the same as the Susan B. Anthony dollar.
@@Brirend It was golden colored when new but turned dull like an old cent after circulating for a while.
Canada found that dollar coins would not circulate while “paper” “dollars” were in circulation. Britain found the same. £1 coins would not circulate until £1 bills were gone.
I thought there was some concept that went something like, if a business is trying to bill you for services after the fact but are not accepting your offer of cash that the results are really not your problem.
Like, you have a meal at a restaurant and at the end of that meal you get a bill, attempt to pay with cash, they refuse the cash, and then you go, "Oh well, I tried" and walk out. Situations like that.
Might be some random state thing somewhere though, IDK. I can't really think of how that would be translated into legalese.
I was working in Calgary, Alberta at a Tim Horton's when a customer came in and paid with an obviously fake $20 Canadian bill. My coworker could immediately tell it was fake, but the customer pulled the one bill out of a stack of at least $1,000 in 20 dollar bills. If he was carrying $1,000 of possibly counterfeit bills, he was probably carrying something else. So, out of safety we accepted the bill, then called the police afterwards. The next day, after our boss met with the police and provided the video to the police, me and my coworker were reamed out for not passing off the bill to the next customer. We were told if we did that again, we were fired. I quit shortly after that.
Another note about the security camera and video the Timmies had... it was a $20,000 multi-camera system specifically developed to track money coming into and leaving the store. Down to the point where it kept track of the amounts in each hand, what's in the tills, and whats in the hands. The video of the money was so crisp that you could see the $20 bill in question, and through the video you can tell it was fake... The system was so in tuned with Canadian Currency and tracking money that they police could not obtain a usable image of the guy that passed off the bill. So, basically, the only thing the cameras were good for was to make sure employees didn't steal money.
I'm a manager of a fast food place, my boss also told me to pass along fake bills that come in.. he loses money when I turn the fakes in, so. ☹️
@@barowt The only problem is that is a felony in Canada. If I know it's a fake and pass it off, I can be found guilty and be imprisoned for up to 5 years... because I knew it was fake... and trust me, you could tell it was fake. But, when the guy pulls out about $1,000 worth of fake bills, you don't confront them... if he's got that much counterfeit, it's also probably carrying something else to protect that cash.
@@RealCyclops Except that it isn't cash. Only the official counterfeit is cash.
If that's true that they don't have to accept it then they should be forced to do a credit payment and not be allowed to charge you fees for using credit because they're forcing you to use credit You don't have to shop there but if you are and they won't take your cash but yet they charge you like $8 to use a credit card or $4 or $3 what is there something that says that they can't do that if they do not accept cash?
So the statement written on paper currency "This note is legal currency for all debts public and private" is not worth the paper it's written on.
It doesn't mean what you think it means.
@@eddarby469 The statement is 'legal tender for all debts...'
Tender is an offer of payment.
Currency is used to represent money through paper, coin, or other objects).
@@PCFLSZ Well, it seems like you're telling me that English doesn't mean what it says.
So what does the statement mean? How should we understand the meaning of the statement?
@@eddarby469When you present cash, you are tendering an offer to pay with paper currency. The recipient is not required to accept your offer (excepting state and local laws that require acceptance).
@@eddarby469 You quoted the words on the bill incorrectly, I didn't change any definitions.
When you present cash, you are making an offer to pay (tender) with paper federal reserve notes (currency). No entity or person is required to accept your offer to pay in cash unless it is a government body or a state/local law mandates such.
I knew a guy when we were young that copied some doller bills and put them through a laundry matt bill changer. I think he got 5 or 10 bucks worth of quarters. He, shortly thereafter, enlisted in the service and left town. The Feds came and found him several years later at his duty station and held him accountable for counterfeiting money.
Back in the 80's I saw a statement from the Treasury Department saying that currency bills must be accepted for debts but sales are not debts, rather they are transactions. If there is no agreement to pay in the future, there is no debt. Cash money on the barrelhead is not a debt payment.
Well if you eat at a restaurant you are billed so they have to accept it. Unless clearly stated cash not accepted, which is why you see no credit cards or accept certain cards.
Steve! I found that SCOTA ruling making it OK to drive w/o a license! But...sorry! I don't accept cash. JUST KIDDING!
Cash is king. a business that don't accept cash is a business that don't want to make money as much.
Not exactly, I never carry cash and I don't go to places that don't accept debit cards (very few and far between). It's a lot more convenient to simply swipe or insert my card than to fumble over a bunch of loose change and ragged old bills that have probably been in a strippers butt crack.
in Massachusetts requiring businesses to accept cash is based on Chapter 151B, Section 3 of the Massachusetts General Laws. This law states that it is illegal for retail establishments to refuse to accept legal tender, including cash, as a form of payment. The Massachusetts Attorney General's Office has also emphasized that businesses must accept all forms of legal tender to ensure consumer protection and economic justice. New Jersey and Rhode Island have similar laws. San Fran and Philly have a law but not sure those laws are legal per your description.
I think NYC passed a law that all businesses had to accept cash as payment. The businesses were doing it to exclude a certain class of people coming into their store.
To exclude or to try to cut down on robberies?
the federal reserve is not an arbiter of law. citing it when referencing what is "legal" is a logical fallacy. the federal reserve is also not a public institution but a private bank. it also is illegitimate and anti-constitutional.
100% Nonsense & pure ignorance
@@richarddecredico6098You just described yourself and your own comment.
As someone whose wife opened a retail business in 2021, I can tell you that Pennsylvania requires accepting cash. PA 73 P.S. § 204-1 "Cash Consumer Protection Act." (06/JUL/1984) requires all businesses accept cash. Our lawyer said she could have provided a "gift card" vending machine where customers could convert cash to gift-cards as a way to avoid having her staff (who have Intellectual or Developmental Disability), have to learn to handle cash. We ended up just working hard with the cashiers to properly handle cash...
Probably had to hire someone over 50 that could count out the change..
It may be hard to unintentionally mutilate US coins, but I've had a few pass through my hands. No fraud, or any other attempt to change value, etc., somehow they just became damaged. Had no trouble spending any of them.
I have run into public high schools not excepting cash to get into football games. It's is an inconvenience to me and I don't like it.
Massachusetts general laws part III Title IV Chapter 255D Section 10A
Section 10A: Discrimination against cash buyers
Section 10A. No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer.
I believe this was done to protect lower income people who might not have a bank account.
I thought I remembered from my childhood (back in the 70's) a case where it was ruled that cash could not be refused as payment. From my memory, here in South Carolina, we used to have a grocery store where you could pay your utility bills. Most everyone paid by check. The story as I recall was that someone wanted to pay by cash, but was refused. It went to court, where it was ruled that cash had to be accepted. However, when I tried to look this up, all I found was a bill, H.3694, introduced on 1/12/2023, stating:
"Any establishment that holds a retail license to do business in this State must accept cash payments for transactions."
This is still a bill, so my memory must have been wrong, but it may be that soon, businesses will not be able to refuse cash payments in SC.
What about the statement ON the currency that says "This note is legal tender for all debts PUBLIC and PRIVATE."
Read my comment. If You purchase something from someone it is a contract contracts require both parties to consent. It’s not a one way street…who cares if you have cash. It’s up to the seller to agree.
@@jamesm.3967 I agree with that premise. Unfortunately, there's the aspect of "enforceability" which the government(s) provide conditions under which they will support a side in a dispute. My understanding is that Legal Tender payment is enforceable.
@@KutWrite If you have a debt then yes, payment in USD is required to be accepted so long as it is reasonable. (you couldn't pay in nitroglycerine soaked pennies in a mason jar for example) Debts are different from a voluntary exchange. If someone doesn't want to accept your cash then no contract is made and no debt is made.
It is known as Legal tender, if a business won't take my paper money, I'm going else where!
You tell 'em, little buddy!
Diminution (to make smaller) laws possibly refers to coins made of gold of silver.
Take the coin and shave a little bit of gold/silver off the coin. You have made the coin ‘smaller’ and have some gold/silver to keep when you pass the coin on.
Like peeling a potato. You keep the peelings, pass the potato on.
It’s why most coins have a knurled edge, so it can be seen if someone has stolen part of the silver/gold that make up he coin.
If you make 100 dollars worth of gold coins 1% smaller in weight you have a dollars worth of gold, and also 100 dollars worth of coins.
Rome had this problem two thousand years ago.
I used to work for a state government agency. At one point I lost my ID. When I went to get a replacement, they would not accept cash or credit cards only checks or money orders. I haven’t carried around a checkbook for decades so I had to make a special trip to a bank just to get a money order. Very annoying
I would never patronize a business who won’t take cash.
As is your prerogative.
And they don't care.
The thing that gets me is that the DMVs near me will not accept cash, but only cheque or money orders. Yes, a government agency accepting something from a private company as payment, but _not_ its own currency.
The Federal Reserve is not a governmental institution, but a private one.
That way the 'honest' underpaid DMV employees can't steal any cash.
Years ago, a snack machine at my workplace would spit out Sacagawea dollars for change. At a local store, I wanted to buy an item and tried to use some of the extra Sacagawea dollars that I had. The owner (and not nicely) told me he would not accept that b-le-e-p. So...I took my business elsewhere.
States such as New Jersey, Massachusetts and Rhode Island have laws in place that prohibit businesses from banning cash. San Francisco and Philadelphia have also passed similar laws. New York City will also join other cities in requiring businesses to accept cash starting Nov. 19.
Interestingly, there are a few things that blue states get right.
What about the guy who paid a fast food restaurant with a 200 dollar bill with his own picture on the front and the slogan: "Don't Trust Anybody" on it. They made change and then the manager saw the bill and ran and in front of the car and called the cops?
The cops came, arrested the guy for counterfeiting. They called the FBI and the FBI refused to respond.
Why didn't they show up?
It's not illegal to print a non-existent denomination especially if it blatantly had his picture on it and a picture of his house on the back.
They told the restaurant that since they took the bill and gave change for it, they had accepted it as money and they were out the loss.
THEN the guy sued the restaurant for false arrest.
Cool!
Great scam!
My son worked at that Arby's in Hemet, CA in 1992.
I have a car wash in my area will only take cards, I drove out to another car wash.
US paper currency does say “This note is legal tender for all debts, public or private.” Of course if I am trying to buy something and the sale is refused I have no debt, the store is simply declining my offer to buy, but if I purchase an item or service on credit I have incurred debt. Can I then insist the creditor accept cash?
The way I understand it, they can't declare a non payment of debt if you put a stack of money on the table. They might refuse to actually take cash, but they can't re-posses your car or house or whatever collateral is at stake. However, some banks nowadays charge handling fees for cash payments.So you might have to pay extra for them to actually accept the payment.
@@peregreena9046 The problem is;
It is technically illegal to not accept cash in America, or to charge a handling fee of any kind.
That being said, by many of the highest America laws, the entire economic system and the USD itself is technically illegal since August 13, 1971.
When Nixon signed the order to abandon the gold standard.
So, there is actually an argument that can be made, that America technically has no currently legal form of payment other than gold or silver, and the american government is responsible for the theft of 100,000's tons of gold and silver from It's citizens.
Mainly, because they seized all privately owned gold and silver at the time they founded the Federal Reserve.
Mainly, because it was and still is required by law that they back ever USD issued by an unchanging amount of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource.
So, short answer is;
It is very complicated, and the entire situation is both illegal and screwed beyond belief.
Paper currency is only a note just as it reads. It is not payable on demand. Only silver certificates are.
@@charlie6629 The thing is that is why it is actually illegal, as well as the entire current system.
Which I already noted.
The thing is under the highest of American laws banks do not legally have the right to issue valid American currency.
This means the credit system and loan systems are both illegal, as they are effectively issuing American currency.
Also, based on the highest of laws on this subject, the federal reserve is the only entity that can issue valid American currency.
Furthermore, each and every bill issued must be backed by a unchanging amount of gold, silver, or other hard valued resource.
Thus, the gold standard existed until, convicted criminal, and Ex-president Nixon illegally put a stop to it.
Technically, America has had no legal tender at all since that point, by America's highest laws.
This is regrettable but true.
This is why I noted it is supposed to be illegal to not accept the USD as payment.
Which is why it says usable for all debts public and private on the bill.
This was in the founding documents of the federal reserve, it's authorities, and what they were required to abide by.
However, by the exact same requirements/documents, America doesn't technically have any legal tender at all since Nixon removed the gold standard.
Mainly, due to the requirements to actually back any valid currency issued, with the prior noted unchanging resources.
Thus, every USD printed after that point was technically a criminal action.
Any valid American currency was and still is, literally required to be as good as gold.
The problem is just The American government doesn't seem to care about any of it's own laws.
They also, clearly don't care about any treaties, or trade agreements they have/had.
This is all the case nearly all of the time excluding when it benefits them.
America is a nation which unilaterally breaks it's own laws, violates international treaties, violates trade agreements often with little to no reason.
The American government then expects others to abide by the very things they themselves one-sidedly broke/break all of the time.
None of this is new mind you, it has been constantly the Case, to varying degrees, for around 100 to 130 years.
Not just regarding issuing currency, but countless things, like I just noted.
It's kind of interesting, from an informational standpoint.
There is actually no nation in the past 400 years of human history, that has been documented, that has ever managed to be as illegal in it's operations, by it's own laws, as America is/has managed.
Additionally, there is not one nation that I could find in the past 250 years that has broken as many treaties and trade agreements as America, and as consistently.
This is even more striking because after America breaks said treaties and trade agreements, they consistently expect the other party to abide by the treaty and trade agreement they broke.
Nearly always without any responsibility and/or compensation, from/by America.
It is perhaps useful for a case study in narcissism.
As it has and does occur on a national scale.
@@darkpoechi You write a lot for knowing little. As I stated it's just a note from the Federal Reserve. That is not under the Government. It's a useless piece of paper if the system fails. The only bill that is payable on demand as I typed earlier is a Silver Certificate with Silver coins or bars in that amount. The Federal Reserve is a private organization that stores gold as a back-up although there isn't much there anymore. Lest we forget the US in in an over 7 trillion dollar debt. Do some more research if you'd like. Good Day
It is illegal to "diminish" money because fraudsters used to carefully shave the edges of gold coins to collect gold, while still passing the coins off at face value. That is one reason coins started having "reeded" (not smooth) edges - so any shaving would be obvious.
Any store that refuses to take cash in my opinion, is suspicious. Primary reason is due to some stores having fake covers on their debit card machines solely to steal your information.