Adverse possession in Nevada is 7 years. I had a co-worker who owes numerous remote properties. One day he came to realize that he hadn't been getting a property bill on one of his properties for 5 years? He drove out to that property located about 30 miles from town, in foothills. He discovered that someone had placed a metal gate across the dirt road, and had barbed wire fencing installed around the property. That trespassers had been paying property taxes on that property for those 5 years. My associate attached a chain to the locked gate and pulled the gate down. Driving further up the dirt road, he discovered a double wide trailer installed on the property which was obviously being used as a sort of homestead. He called the Sheriff's Office and had the trespassers given notice to have everything off the property in three days. The only thing that was left was the barbed wire fence. The good side to this is that somebody paid the property taxes for 5 years, and he got his land fenced for free!
Thanks for this post Steve. I always wondered what kept people from using such laws to take forest land. Since they cann't act against the gov't... well there goes my retirement plan. On a side note. I live next to a park where the city owns and maintains the park. Been here for 19 years and for 18 of those years, I've been maintaining about a 10 x 75 foot swath of the park (trimming bushes, weed control and such). Not claiming the land as it's more decorative than anything... Just funny how they've abandoned it for so long. On a personal note. Keep up the great work. I've been watching your channel for the past month or so and truly enjoy viewing each episode. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
a church near me tried to mow their neighbors lawn in order to take their property under this law. when the owner realized what the church was doing they put up a sign facing the church that says "thou shalt not steal".
@@Counselor77 Um, no where in what you wrote or the comment you are initially responding to does it state that the church was doing them a favor. The opposite in fact was stated by the original post. And your post just said he was being paranoid. So yes, I read what you wrote.
@@Counselor77 You don't know the motives of this particular church and the people who lead it. Did you understand what I wrote? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHURCH WAS DOING. Also, seriously, 2 comments...kinda desperate for attention aren't ya.
A friend of mine here in northern Ireland came close to loosing a field he owned due to adverse possession but he found out in time that a local farmer was grazing cattle on it. He also found out that if cattle are on your land, you can claim ownership of them. He just let some of the locals know that he planned to claim the cattle the next time he was in the area. The farmer stopped using the field.
pete smyth The only one that can pay the taxes is the owner of the property not squatters. Let’s get real. If I pay my property taxes every year, year after year, that is my claim to my property.
I think the old English laws that set this up intended to prevent abandoned property from being forever abandoned and decrepit. They favored a new owner taking care of the land and rewarded that land to the new caretaker, taxes not being important. Failure of tax payment results in government auctioning the land to also find a new caretaker
Your remarks about the legal aspects are pure gold. On a practical level, the boundary line management is critical. As a former surveyor, I tell my friends every occasion that I can: Get it surveyed!. If the survey was recent, find your corner markers, (typically rods driven into the ground) and enhance the location at the surface with witnesses like rock piles, tree marks. pence posts and lots of photographs from many directions for context. In the old days, we protected our boundaries with guns and fighting. Today we do it with legal instruments like surveys, legal descriptions and evidence like the enhancements described above. At sale of property, a survey or re-survey before sale offers the ultimate protection for everyone. I am tired of seeing people blow off the need for a survey, and then later come crying for justice, at which time it is far more costly. The cost of a survey is actually a tiny fraction of the total real estate transaction.
@Tt Miller RIGHT! A good surveyor will always approach the door of all adjoiners, and advise them of what's going on. My staff had the orange safety jackets and business cards, to give to neighbors. In this profession, those, who fail to extend that courtesy, are said to have "near-death-experiences".
Steve, This actually happened to my mother in Utah. She purchased a house and later had it surveyed and found the property fence was 5 feet off to her neighbors favor. She attempted to sue the neighbors to get the property back. The fence had been in place for more than 20 years, and because of that she lost the case. I told her she should have sued the sellers of her house for misrepresenting the property.
I have been mowing the grass on property adjoining mine (on both sides) for the past 21 years. My neighbor, who actually owns it, hasn't been here as long as I have. I acknowledge that he owns it and would never dream of trying to take it via "adverse possession". The property appears to just be a continuation of my yard so I keep it up, mow the grass, trim trees and haul off brush, etc. I always ask my neighbors permission if I need to do any major work to maintain the property and he tells me to treat it "like it was mine". We have never had a problem and do not expect to. Neighbors treating each other like neighbors are supposed to.....try it....it works.
That almost happened to my mom in L.A. She has a very large, tree filled, back yard. A group of men from somewhere in the middle east (I don't know which country) moved into the house behind her, took down the fence and hooked up her hose and started to take her water. (I mention where they are from as they were foreigners, yet not hispanic, so we thought maybe the rules where they are from were different) She yelled at them often, and they were very nice, but they kept doing it, hoping she was elderly and would give up. She had to hire a boundary survey and put up a better fence. In older parts of L.A. the power co. and the phone co. have leeways to access their poles, sometimes the boundaries get blurred. But these guys were playing an old game on an old gal. She fixed the problem with an 8 foot fence, plus the power co. took away some property from these other neighbours when they reassessed.
Someone just tried to sell my Father's house. He was a squatter. But he didn't live there long enough, nor claim any legal title to it and tried to sell it as if he were the owner. Now he's in prison for fraud.
When I bought my home, I had the property surveyed. The survey showed that the fence on one side was 3 feet 4 inches on the neighbor's side of the property line. The fence was overgrown with bushes, but was visible. Weeks later, I spoke with the neighbor and told him that I would be replacing the fence eventually, and moving it back to the correct place, giving him back the area that was his. He said the fence was there before he bought his home, and that was in the late 70's. He had no idea where the property line was, and he said he wasn't worried about it. It took a few years before I got around to the fence, but after I cut down the bushes to get to the fence, removed the old fence and moved the new fence to the correct position, the neighbor realized how much room he had between the fence and the side of his house. Now, he drives his truck and yard trailer down that side, when doing yard work. We've been very good neighbors for twenty years now.
I appreciate the way you create your videos. Short title and intro, great info, and done! No long Intro, no press the like button and so on before even seeing the video and no commercials. Thank you Steve!!
This is why (in Florida) almost all homes bought with 3rd party financing are subject to surveys. I highly suggest all homebuyers get surveys no matter the terms of purchase. Also, just a PSA (in Florida), surveyors are exempt from prosecution due to trespassing while performing their duties of land mapping. Regulations of Occupations and Professions, Title XXXII, Chapter 472, section 29. Surveyors have the right to access all 3rd party property (with a few exceptions, and limitations), and dig in your yard for the property markers, or do minor trimming to vegetation, because they are typically unable to do their job without this ability. So be careful when confronting surveyors, you may put yourself in legal jeopardy if you react to them adversely.
100% spot on..i wanted to expand my garage and the city wanted a plot plan..so i got one and my property line was not where i thought it was... technically i had been using the gas stations that is next to me parking lot for the past 17 years...nobody realized ..when i bought the home my realtor said here is YOUR parking lot. .i had been plowing it and using it as my own etc....that gas station has had 4 different owners over the years and nobody has ever disputed it.,its 20 years in my state and i can get it....the way its set up everybody would assume its mine because it is right next to my home and there is a wooded and then the gas station..
This is a prime example of why surveys are important, you should always get a survey any time you buy a property especially if there is any question of the boundary lines.
Kudos to you Mr Lehto. I live in Scandinavia so none of your subject matters apply to me directly. I still watch your videos and keep watching 🙂 Greetings from Sweden!
We tried to and successfully avoided this happening to us in Virginia. Homeowner next to us had, for an unknown length of time, been stacking firewood on our property. He did so with the approval of the previous owner. When we constructed a fence to allow us to have a dog, the neighbors were concerned about the fence location. It was actually about 6 inches inside our property line. I told them that I would put a gate there if they wanted to use the place to stack their wood but that I was just following our property line. They weren't too pleased but I did that for that exact reason - to prevent any claim of adverse possession in the future. (They never did take me up on that offer to stack the wood in the same place.)
California adverse possession laws require at least five years of possession and payment of taxes throughout that period in order to be eligible for legal title. Seems if you were owner but not paying your taxes, you should expect something adverse top come of it.
He disappeared! Don't worry y'all, I'll solve this mystery! Puff puff cough... He was abducted by aliens. Problem solved. Evidence you say? The aliens used the adverse possession and stole the evidence!
@@randyweaver6543 it might be a difficult but not unheard of 20 years ago the big news story around my hometown was this young woman had gone missing they never found her but her boyfriend at the time is sitting on death row at the moment his uncle to towns police chief served 15 years for helping him try to get away with it and a few other people served time for abuse of a corpse that they couldn't even prove existed besides the land would just be a part of the estate not like it would revert back to the previous owner
I have a friend whose property was parceled off a much larger piece. He has been using an about 40 x 200 foot piece of the neighbors property to park trailers and farm equipment. This has gone on for about 20 years and 3 different owners of the property. He just always gets along with the neighbors and helps them out with his equipment. Win win in his case.
I love these videos, they combine practical advice with delightful and often obscure aspects of the law. It seems the lesson here is that if you're going to build a fence pay for a surveyor. :) When we built our split rail in Maryland our neighbor was happy to split the cost of the surveyor with me. He was, admittedly, a GREAT neighbor.
Doing family heritage research 5 years ago I came across court records from where my great grandfather lost such a case. Someone had built a fence in the wrong place and nobody noticed for 15 years. When a survey was done eventually, the interloper simply refused to move the fence or pay for the land, took it to court, and they won ownership of a little strip of land. My ggfather lost like 1 acre out of 160. Which rang a bell... I remember my mom mentioning that event when I was a kid (and pretty completely incapabable of absorbing the details).
In Louisiana the term is 10 years, but other than that it is the same as in Michigan. There are cases on the books of people taking possession of homes in New Orleans, fixing them up and openly living in them for 10 years, than owning the homes, paying for nothing more than the restoration of the damaged property. However, this was risky and many lost a lot when the original owner showed up 6 years after the storm to reclaim their property.
I had a guy try to claim "right of easement" using my father`s yard for 6 years as a service drive to bring his firewood into his backyard because his yard was land locked due to a garage that was built. I was OK with it until he started turning his backyard into a junk yard. He thought I was being ridiculous when I told him I didn`t appreciate looking at a old junk pickup out my back window. Needless to say he doesn`t come through the yard anymore.
@@thenormalyears Your limited capacity makes you not relate the stories, please go upstairs and ask your mom to explain and follow her advice and get a job.
Our neighbor who has horsies and moo-moos, has a fence line that crosses my property by about 2 feet. Thing is, his property has been his for years before I moved here. I never said a word, because he's a great neighbor who done really great things for my family and its not enough land loss to worry about. In light of your video's exposition, he probably owns that two feet anyway due to adverse possession. Plus I have no plans that would absolutely require the use of those two feet.
The problem occurs if and when you go to sell your property as it can create a defect of title. As long as both property owners are on understanding terms( preferably in writing about boundries) then adverse possession can't be claimed (permission vs. Involuntary use)...
I run into a similar situation at work. I do fire clearance inspections in southern California. I don't work for the government, it's a program to encourage people to fire harden their properties through grants. They apply for the grant, do the work, and I go and inspect the property. To receive the grant, you have to meet California defensible space standards, which require 100' of clearance around your house. Not bare soil, but weeds cut, no dead vegetation, reduced vegetation, etc. But what about when your property doesn't extend a full 100' from your house, and the neighbor is not maintaining their property? Many owners are willing to clear that vegetation on the neighbors property to protect their own house, particularly if it's an undeveloped property, or the neighbors house is thousands of feet away and over the hill. Often they get along and the other owners are fine with the brush clearance being done. But others have strict no trespassing attitudes, often stating they do not want the neighbors treating the properties as their own and gaining possession of it. I don't even know how or if it would work in California, but they believe it will. The complication is if your neighbors have a house within 100' of your property, you are required by county code to maintain the complimentary 100' of clearance around their house. So if you won't let them clear it, you are required to. But very often they still refuse to do so until they get cited. Every year. And to be clear, the clearance standards and the program I work for only enforces the clearance on property you own and control.
Steve, would you please consider an episode, which deals with, in some detail, how homeowners can effectively deal with un-invited guests. Specifically what can you do when they refuse to leave? thanks
We had that issue in CA GFs (now wife) Ex husband refused to leave. I tried the subversive method. Moving in and walking around naked, disconnect internet in the room he was staying in, being a complete a-hole while I was home. In the end it took a judge to evict him. He stayed an extra 10min (12:10am) just to think he won. Took several months for court dates and his lawyer trying to delay.
@@tyree9055 I don't think you guys understand what I'm getting at. Unless you have signs in your front yard saying No Trespassing, No Solicitation, or an active restraining order against this "uninvited" guest - they are not breaking any laws by walking up your driveway, approach you and your family completely out of the blue and saying "hey longtime no see" and then after telling them to leave or F____ off... they are not breaking any law by NOT leaving...so the police wont help you if a crime is not being committed. further...just because these "uninvited' guest(s) refuse to leave or DONT leave, after you tell them to leave, does not in any way grant you the homeowner any right to become physically violent and remove them. Legally what can any homeowner do when confronted with this type of situtation.. For example... you the homeowner cannot just draw a gun, order them off of your property and then shoot them where they stand if they don't leave... Unless they pull a gun and threaten you first... You better have witnesses in this case... again.. what do you do?
It's not really proper to say it happens "legally". The doctrine of adverse possession is nothing more than a conditional statute of limitations on a tort claim. And it's generally a LOT longer than the statute of limitations on every other tort claim you could make. So since the owner loses the legal right to enforce title through the Court due to the statute of limitations, the adverse possessor basically wins by default. The "quiet title action" is to make it official on deeds and land records.
I'm a licensed land surveyor and found Steve's assessment is spot on. My advice to landowners is to occupy openly to what you think is the extent of your domain and if your neighbor doesn't complain let the repose pass for 7-20 years and it's yours, no need for court action on your part. If your think a neighbor is trespassing confront him amicably and maybe agree on a Boundary Adjustment, exchange of quitclaim deeds or let things lie. No need for a survey. OTOH if your neighbor is an asshole and the encroachment is significant and recent defend yourself by buying my service to prove the boundary line. Unfortunately I'll charge $3,000 so if it's a minor issue it may not be worth it. Lawyers are advocates for their clients but land surveyors are not; our charge is to protect the public so we often do surveys which prove your neighbor is right and you're the loser. Sorry. Adverse possession is rooted in the idea that all land should be productive. Given enough time if you cede land to your neighbor without complaint he'll gain rights to it because of his labor. That's fair.
One thing I remember about Adverse Possession is that you must KNOW that the other person is using your property and you do absolutely nothing. If you mention to them that it's your property that it's on, no adverse possession is possible.
Oregon is only 10 years, but it has some tough conditions to meet as follows: Oregon law sets a high bar for those seeking to claim ownership through adverse possession. The statute sets out detailed requirements, which generally include: The person claiming ownership by adverse possession must have actually used the property as though it were their own. Depending on the type of land at issue, this use might vary. It might mean farming the land, fencing it in or improving upon it. Grazing livestock isn’t enough by itself, however, to constitute “actual use.” The use must have been “open and notorious,” meaning it wasn’t done sneakily or under the radar. To anyone looking on, it must have appeared that the possessor owned the property at issue. The possessor must have used the property continuously for at least 10 years. The possession must have been “hostile” (rather than permissive), meaning it was in opposition to the true owner’s interests. The possessor must have been honestly (and reasonably) mistaken in believing they owned the property. As a result, intentional adverse possession isn’t possible in Oregon. Finally, in Oregon the possessor must prove each of the statutory elements by “clear and convincing evidence”-a high burden of proof that is more exacting than the usual “preponderance of the evidence” standard in civil cases.
Steve Lehto, i love your collection of mics, i have a couple that I always wanted to restore just never got the time. I'm now retired and disabled and time to let go, old RCA tube mic, #072 of Fender Tape Echo,
I put up a fence in my yard where there was an old alleyway no longer used between my house and the neighbors. I gave my plans to the city which included fencing in the alleyway . It was approved and I gained 30-40 ft of new yard space.
I remember several years ago reading about a military guy coming back from his tour overseas to find someone living in his house and the sheriff wouldn’t evict the squatter for … reasons. I’ve also heard about scammers getting a deed transferred to themselves through some kind of identity theft.
GREAT video.....my cousin is now dealing with a similar situation, wanting to purchase a piece of land which has a squatter using part of the acreage, and the owner is afraid to approach the squatter because of his family being powerful. I think fencing off the squatted portion and selling the rest is a way of dealing with this, avoiding any contact between my cousin as new buyer and the squatter, no disagreements at any rate. Poor old lady who needs to sell the land is not able to use any of it as it is........
I bought my house in 2010 and it was advertised as having a storage shed. After I bought the house, I later figured out that the previous owner built the shed on my neighbor's property. Me and him have a good relationship! I did tell him about adverse possession, and if I ever sold the house, the next owners might try to take his land thru adverse possession, so I said to avoid that, he needs to give me permission to keep the shed there and use it. He did that and we bypassed the possibility of adverse possession because we removed the "taking possession without permission" part of adverse possession. When I rebuild the shed, I'm going to locate it within my setback.
You got me. I bought a house next to county property. I offered to buy that property since they no longer were using the abandoned pumping station that they removed. They said I could use it like was mine. So I've been mowing it and using it like it's mine. It's been 13 years.
If the time limit is up, take it, by this law it's yours! Make sure there aren't any other laws you are violating or are limiting you. But this is, I think, the exact reason this concept exists.
It’s all Indian land anyway United States doesn’t own any land here United States only encompasses 10 square blocks of Washington DC They keep their citizens stupid for a reason So there is citizens think the United States has power and money Which it does not
If you allow this to happen to you, being the property owner, you deserve to get screwed. The FIRST and most important rule as a land owner is to ensure your property lines ANY time you have 1) new neighbors, 2) an existing neighbor builds a fence or structure. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure YOUR property remains yours in all circumstances. If you have trouble talking to people, get counseling on how to be more confident because this DOES happen more than people think. Edit: forgot to congratulate you on a well done legal info-vid. So well done there! Subscribed!
In Canada where i live i was at a public hearing for the Landlord Tenant act where a real estate agent had taken up residence in a vacant multi million dollar mansion that they were supposed to be trying to sell. The Landlord Tenant act required a hearing to vacate the agent from the property where he had been living for almost a year. The agent knew the law and that the eviction process took a very long time. Their modus operandi was moving from one high end vacant property to another with no rent or lease.
@@thenormalyears Who's threatening that? I watched my dad lose everything he owned including the contents of his house. I can assure you that if anyone tried that, they would not enjoy their spoils.
You'd then have a hard time enjoying your own property from a prison cell, then in the mean time I will move onto your land and mow it and pay some taxes and get free land.
Yeah, that happened to my father-in-law. Fence 2ft on his property and when he went to sell, and buyer wanted property surveyed and realized neighbors fence was on property and neighbor paved driveway right up to fence. My father-in-law couldn't make neighbor move fence and had to even to reduce price of property. Note to self, promptly correct any property line mistakes .
@@bc1969214 No, he was renting home to a long term tenant and wasn't there 24/7. He was buddies with neighbor but in the end got screwed. When you give right of way to anyone you have to block access 1 day per year or you lose it. That's the law in my state.
@@benkrom2737 oh, so if the neighbor asked permission and your FIL agreed the way to handle this (hindsight of course) is to charge them whatever the encroachment would decrease the property value. Unless this was a case where the tenant didn't say a thing to him and the neighbor took advantage. These stories are good to read, things you don't think of.
@@bc1969214 Neighbor had mentioned he was putting up fence cause property was being rented. There wasn't a definitive property line, just grass area. 2ft easily able to do without raising a eyebrow. Wasn't till property surveyed and Neighbor wouldn't give back land. I learned a long time ago never lend anyone anything you're not willing to lose. That includes tools, money,and property ,etc.
@@bc1969214 You can let neighbor use area, BUT you have to document that the easement is closed at least 1 day out of the year. If it's open for years without any closure, property is fair game. Title insurance only states you own property. You will be still paying property taxes on property that you have zero control over property being encroached. Best thing is to just give it up and let them pay the taxes. And a lesson learned. Unless you have endless amounts of money to fight it , the cost for a lawyer to reverse it usually isn't worth it. Because of this I had seller survey my property when I bought my house. Different towns and states laws are different so may not apply to your area.
i get the fenceline thing makes sense. wonder about for example tho an abandoned house next door in detroit. if u incorporate your neighboring connected abandoned land into yours to protect the value of your own house (in other words redoing the house next door and rehabbing it or taking a piece of the yard) can it qualify as hostile ownership? interesting video btw thanks.
I remember hearing of this concept when I was a kid. It was referred to as squatter's rights and supposedly took 17 years. I'm not an attorney 😃 and was certainly unaware that the rules may be different across state jurisdictions. Kinda cool to have a more credible explanation. Thanks, Steve.
A gentleman I know ( a new homeowner also ) just recently lost a huge piece of his backyard. Years and years ago the fence was put in by the home adjacent to him. He had it surveyed, and took it to court but still lost it. This happened in the state of missouri.
You don't own squat! Why do you pay tax to the government on property you own? Read Senate Doc. 43. 73rd Congress, 1st Session...it states in black & white when it comes to property rights we are presumed to be "mere users"...no rights just granted benefits & privileges.
I first ran into this on a trip to Uruguay. They have a national policy that is designed to help the homeless by allowing people to move into empty homes, and if they dwell there for a time period, the property becomes theirs. This has led to many people who have vacation homes that are empty much of the year to hire people to live there fo prevent this!
Well shit, that means the neighbors on both sides of my mom's house stole a foot or two. Of course, there is a little tag that tells where the legal property line is. When we went to build the block wall in the back yard, we built it down the proper property line. Oddly, we both sometimes mow one another's little part of the lawn on one side. Whoever gets out there first just mows the whole thing.
When I was younger, a neighbor built a brick wall that was partially on our property... It was chalk lined and they were told, in writing, to move it over. After lots of drama, they finally moved it. You have to be on top of your property!
My MIL's neighbors were trying to do this for her beachfront property. It's a summer home, and we caught them using her garage for storage, stealing electricity, attempted to put up a greenhouse on her property, all sorts of little crap. Adverse possession doesn't exist in this state. You could squat on a property and pay the taxes for decades, but it doesn't matter here. I never bothered to let them know their scheme was pointless, but we changed all the house locks, put locking covers on the outside outlets, and set up security cameras. Didn't take long for them to quit trying to steal a million dollar property from an old lady with dementia.
@@Cotronixco Yes, but is nearly impossible to actually do in some of them. The threshold for proving it where I live is so high that it might as well not exist except for long-term abandoned property. When I last checked the state statutes even the old trick of paying the taxes wasn't going to work.
@@Cotronixco But most people are under the impression that it's sort of universal way to steal property; go pay their back taxes and TA-DA, you now own it. What really irritates me is that adverse possession needs to be planned, sometimes decades in advance. Squatters shouldn't have rights - they should have prison sentences.
@@nolongeramused8135 You are correct, so as long as the owner presses charges within the statutory number of years, your wish is granted. But if the owner does nothing about it for 20 years, it's his own fault.
Great video Steve! One of my relatives has gone through this with his neighbor. Another issue he had was trying to sell his house with a basement he refinished without pulling a permit. With the thousands of people who do their own projects without pulling a permit, would you consider doing a video about the consequences of not pulling permits?
Great idea! I finish basements for customers & ALWAYS pull a permit. Depending on the town, you could run into trouble selling the house- electrical & plumbing inspections are very important as well as structural engineered beams.
My family moved into a new build home when I was born, the back yard was 90 x 30 feet. when I was 14 my dad had an extension build on the side of the house and the land was surveyed. The surveyors discovered that the neighbours property ran into my dad's by 18" at the far end. Dad kicked up a stink about it but like his legal guy said, after 14 years its a bit late to complain. I don't know but he probably did not have a survey when he bought the place, and whats his loss? A very narrow wedge that he never knew about until the survey. I live in the UK.
It's tricky business. When my cousin died his widow contacted my dad and the other siblings about signing the deed to my grandpa's property over to her. Grandpa built & lived in the house next door to my aunt (whose house he also built) in a poor neighborhood next to the railroad tracks, but it was just a few blocks from the beach which back then was an undesirable area. After grandpa died, my aunt & later my cousin, took over paying the property taxes. Not sure what happened to either house, but the lot had become very valuable due to its location walking distance from the beach with Condo's going up all around them. My cousin's widow wanted to sell both properties to a developer she was working with. Before signing, my dad asked an attorney about it and found he was entitled to 1/4th interest in grandpa's property as one of four original heirs (they also included a deceased uncle's widow and children for his share). I don't know what kind of magic that attorney had, but my aunt & cousin had to have been paying property taxes for decades. All of my aunt's family that shared the same portion of inheritance as my cousin's widow were in agreement the property should go to my cousin's widow and wouldn't cooperate in the legal negotiations that ensued. My dad and his siblings won and fortunately our family has, for the most part, moved past it and remained on good terms.
Great, great topic. In MN, there is a Sup Ct. case that noted all of the elements you suggested, with a couple of exceptions. 1. Although I don't know how universally applied, the Court said the party forfeiting the property had to have actual knowledge of the adverse possession. That it wasn't enough to meet just the time requirement. 2. The second item is that in cases without an actual fence or other clear property demarcation, mowing or maintaining the property is not a sufficient ground for adverse possession. My reading between the lines is the forfeiting party has to have demonstrated some level of "intent" or silly negligence to forfeit the property. Probably less than gross negligence but a pretty high standard nevertheless. Reading MN statutes and case law on this topic actually seems pretty reasonable. However, as we all know in real life, that isn't how things always work out 🙂
Last time surveyors were out my way, one of em flipped a cigarette butt out their window... ...as they're driving up & down the road, my neighbor's field catches fire. Almost reached his propane tank before the water truck showed up. I'm sure the survey co. did not charge for that extra service.
@@favoritemustard3542 - Sorry for the brain fart. Was thinking of my MIL’s tank I stumbled across last week. Guessing her expensive neighborhood requires burial. Where I go to refill my BBQ tanks is also an upright tank above ground. Does make fire “a bit” more exciting doesn’t it?
Cool, was going to ask you to do a video on squatters, you covered it. There is a plethora of videos dealing with squatters, especially in the Detroit area..
I am in Michigan and saw this happen. A property owner allowed school children cross his property to avoid traffic dangers. Later they added a safe street for the kids and he closed his fence. The parents complained the safe street path is longer to school. They won and he lost his property. No good deed goes unpunished?
That sounds more like a "prescriptive easement" issue than adverse possession. In other words, the public gained the right to use the property because they had used it for so long. The owner would still own the property but could not restrict kids from walking across it.
Steve we know a man who went on vacation for two months. When he returned home his house was occupied by other people who had changed the locks and moved into his house. This was in North Carolina. He went to court and lost his case. Now in North Carolina the ADVERSE POSSESSION LAWS have a statute of limitations of TWENTY YEARS. But he was on vacation for two months. What can he do to get his house back?
I have woods behind my house. A neighbor had cut a path through it and claimed it was on their property. I quickly had a survey done, fenced and a few metal no trespassing signs added facing their property.
That's why a good Hedger is so important. A Hedger maintains the perimeter of a property by managing the shrubs on the border of the property. A good hedger can slowly encroach on a neighbor's land and if not noticed, can earn his keep by growing your possession.
This exact thing happened to one of my neighbors a couple years ago. He bought his house many years ago and later decided to have a survey done only to discover the fence separating his neighbors yard from his, was 2 feet onto what should have been his property. It went to court and as I'm sure you've guessed, he lost and his neighbor got the extra couple feet of yard space officially. It caused a lot of tension between the neighbors and the one who got the property ended up moving to get away from the disgruntled neighbor.
@@rdizzy1 Yeah. You know how people can be. They hold grudges forever when they have a sense of something unfair happening to them. He has a for sale sign on his house today. Hopefully after he moves he can finally let it go.
@@marcsmith2708 Yeah, I don't understand it whatsoever. Maybe it is because I grew up poor and my family never owned anything other than a shitty used van with 100K+ miles, but I don't have this delusional attachment to property and insane defense of said property personally. I wouldn't give a shit at all if a person put a fence 2 feet onto my property or 20 feet onto my property. Fuck the rat race.
So here is a question for you. My parents home was purchased in the 1920's by a previous generation family member. At the time the street out front was a 1 lane gravel road. Now the road has been paved and widened to a 2 lane road with small shoulders on each side. Our property survey shows we own to the middle of the street and the towns own maps show the same, however the police insist that in addition to the lane of road on our property, that there is a 10 foot easement on the side of the road. The road is popular and car dealers routinely park cars in front of the house on our lawn advertising for sale (a pain to mow around). The police refuse to do anything about it arguing that its city property even though the building department admits its not. The building department says I can put in fiberglass rods to discourage folks from parking there but asked me not to put boulders or large rocks there (the mail box gets run over from time to time as well). Has the county already essentially taken the property even though they didn't pay for it? I hate to see the government just steal property because they didn't research ownership but I'm guessing based on the survey they did (we got the survey done because of the exact reason for your video, a new neighbor put up a fence and put it in 2 feet over the property line. We got the fencing removed but they haven't removed the posts yet (I'm sure lifting out the cement is expensive and he's just left the posts so far taking the fencing down)
I had a similar situation. To answer your question, the state ( town) owns the property, to the extent that they have right away but they expect you to keep it up, i.e. mow it. And your taxes are calculated like it is yours but, most likely, you will not be able to build on it. :( At least, that was my experience. Commies! lol
@@picturemetrollin2093 Well, remember our property includes half the street in addition to the shoulder and grass, on the good side, the zoning wasn't changed and the town building department says today if we want to tear down and rebuild, we could build an 85ft x 100ft foot home (up to 2 stories, a 17,000 sqft behemoth) on the lot as they still consider that ground part of the lot size for zoning purposes (otherwise we would be undersized as the other home lots purchased later are zoned R2 instead of R1 requiring smaller footprints - but with those smaller footprints they are still > $1million homes as the area has become an exclusive area with professional sports players, musicians and CEO's).
@@johnnelson5083 Yeah, about the house i ownd, the stake that defined the property line was driven in the middle of the street. The house across the street had a big oak tree that the people that put the street in, I assume in the twenties, wanted to avoid so they moved the road. And I should mention that the city had a 20' easement between lots where the street should have been. Don't know if that made sense but anyway anyway the city told me the owned a 10' from the street and I couldn't build nothing there Of course I didn't want to but
Adverse possession here in indiana is 10yrs plus the following 1) control 2) intent 3) notice 4) duration Also here in indiana you have to pay the taxes on that property for ten years. My question is how can said person pay taxes on a small section of neighbors property when its in their (neighbors) name? Also one of the requirements is "intent" meaning that said person cannot knowingly use neighbors yard which means if said person is paying taxes on a section of neighbors property then said person knowingly knows that property belongs to neighbor.
I live in a rural area, where title is often not well documented, and when we closed the sale, we discovered that the land purchased was comprised of three separate parcels, only one of which was actually owned. We had to get a slew of octogenarians to swear affidavits showing that the owners from whom we purchased had occupied, used and maintained the two extra parcels since 1948. We were able to establish adverse possession and gain title to the whole parcel. It is tricky, in our jurisdiction the time is 20 years.
@@bradallen1832 Several parcels had been owned by one family. Two other houses had been demolished 20 + years ago. Original owner long since passed on.
My Grandmother’s property was condemned for a city easement/alleyway. The city took half of her property and a corresponding half from her neighbor. Eventually the alleyway was blocked at one end due to development and at the ten year mark, both my Grandma and her neighbor took back their land from the city. I don’t think the city was any wiser.
Sorry I made the error of sending my questions before I watched the ENTIRE video. Since you cover the topics so thoroughly I should have know you would address my questions
This almost happened to me when buying a house. Luckily they had just put up the fence and the pre purchase title search picked it up. Couldn’t close until it was removed
I once knew a woman who purchased a small house in the middle of farm property. She had a long driveway, gravel, which extended from the adjacent apartment complex to her property. Prior to her purchasing the home a large apartment complex was constructed at the back portion next to her property. Her driveway involved the owners of the home using the apartment parking lot to gain access to the main road. She still had this long driveway. From the highway, onto the apartment complex entrance, across it's highway frontage parking lots to the North end of this large complex. At which point her private driveway began. This entire drive was in farmed fields of corn or soy beans. It was basically brush and tree line most of the drive. When one would drive onto her private drive, roughly 10 to 15 feet, one would cross existing (yet no longer in use) single rail set of train tracks, turn sharply left, drive North parallel to the train tracks for quite a distance. At the far end of the drive was another sharp left. Crossing the train tracks a second time. This is where her home was situated. The house was surrounded by mature trees, brush, her flower gardens. At the rear of her house was her garage, out buildings, chicken coop, swimming pool, a detached building with a screened in enclosure for an additional recreation type of area. She had vegetable gardens, flower gardens, a chicken yard. Dogs, cats, kids. She had a good size gravel parking area at the front of her home. This is where the cars were parked. Her driveway extended to the West of her house to behind her house to get to her garage and the buildings in the back of her house. Along the outer West driveway were mature trees. On the other side of these trees were more farmer fields as far as the eye could see. No other roads or development. They had posted no trespassing signs at the entrance to the driveway on the apartment complex side of the property, along the apartment complex side of the back of the property and on the buildings at the back of the property, but not along the West side of the property. Years went by. Eventually the farmer fields to the West of her property was purchased for a housing development. Including a new elementary school across the street from the houses backing up to her West side driveway with the existing mature trees. When they purchased the home, back in the 70's or 80's, the survey and title company mentioned a problem with the property at the West side drive, which was in existence and used from the previous owners. What ever the issue was they never had it remedied and went through with the sale. In the mid 90's is when the new construction was taking place on the property to the West of her property. The new elementary school was complete. Her younger kids would cut through the yards on the West of her property, cross the street in this secluded residential area to get to school. It was a convenience not to have to drive them to the apartment complex to catch the school bus as they had done in the years prior to the new elementary school being constructed. Also, the new elementary school eliminated the need to bus elementary kids out of this area, as they could now all walk to the new elementary school. One spring day she noticed surveyors on her property abutting the newly constructed homes. They had a discussion about her driveway and her use of it. It being her property and one of the neighbors wishing to put up fencing. Some weeks, months, not sure how long after this, she came home to find one of the neighbors erecting a fence on her West driveway property. As you might imagine they argued he was trespassing, illegally constructing a barrier on her property, they both threatened to sue. She began removing postings and all that she could to remove from her property the construction the neighbor began. The police were called. The neighbor was told he could do no more constructing of the fence as it was obstructing their driveway. They would need to take the matter to court. Her husband further removed the remaining fence posts off the property and neatly stacked it on the neighbors property. To shorten this story, the neighbor cut down the mature trees on his side of the driveway. He was granted the property with which to erect this fence. As the property was within his legal rights. They were to find another way with which to drive around to the back of the property to gain access to their garage and their back buildings where they kept trucks and other equipment. This was in the courts for over a year. I don't understand how it became that they lost access to that easement. Which, legally speaking as I understand it, that easement is to continue until they no longer have use of it. Ultimately, both parties sold and moved.
Here in Ontario, Canada. My Father who had 125 acres lost 3.25 acres to the township because of of adverse possession which lead to expropriation of said land, because my Father did not maintain a fence bordering a road next to that property. People started using the land to drive onto and then the township deposited some gravel on that property to fill in some low spots so peoples cars wouldn't get stuck. The original reason this property had a trail on it was so that property owner at that time could access his timber for his own use. He had put up a fence at that time but over time vandals had cut the fence to make their trespass easier. Moral of the story, tell trespassers to vacate immediately and maintain your fences.
In California it is 5 continuous years of being on or in the property treating it as your primary residence or maintaining it - and 5 years of paying the property taxes.
Adverse possession is far more than gaining pieces of a lawn from a misplaced fence. Entire parcels of land, including already present structures, can be transferred through the practice. In theory, a person could obtain a mansion as long as the requirements are met. The only thing that is different is that in order to prove actual possession, you have to show you used the property in the manner that it should be used (Example: living in a residence you are intending to claim). Also, what it means to be “Hostile” can change depending on jurisdictions. Some actually require intent to obtain the property via adverse possession in order for the statutory period to even start.
My neighbor put up a fence 8 feet on his side of the property line. We've mowed it for years. The guy has been unseen for about a decade. Can I claim it?
A lot of people misunderstand this, really is just a way of making it easier to know where the property lines are based on who's been using the property. It's very common when you have property that's never been surveyed.
I have a question about protection of ownership. I recently purchased property that butts up on two sides to a neighbor. I had the land surveyed and noticed the neighbor has been mowing 20 feet onto my recently purchased property. The previous owner let the neighbor mow this section to keep the bugs down and they are aware they are mowing property that is not theirs. They have acknowledged verbally to me that the property is not theirs, but is there a document we can written up to protect my property ownership? I am also in Michigan
Just mowing the property isn't going to give them any powers, especially since both parties have acknowledged who owns it. Essentially, they aren't acting as though they own it, they are just willingly cutting it.
@@tomhenry897 Nope, doesn't apply even if they decide to keep taking care of it. They were made aware that they don't own it. Both parties know the facts.
#1- Never trust a realtor. #2- Never trust a real estate platt map (they are as close as hand grenades). #3- Always get a registered survey when buying real estate. Believe me!
The survey is just a piece of paper. I have a survey but I can't find anyone to stake it before I put up the fence. I have so many corners those numbers are worse than calculus, I can't figure it out myself.
@@evelgreytarot8401 Surveyors do this. I just had it done and I live in an area where there is a lot of business for surveyors from developers. You want a surveyor to stake it, not someone who claims knowledge. Unless you live in a very isolated area, there is a surveyor who will mark it. I paid $600 for a surveyor to stake my boundary line which had three corners and was 460 feet in length.
this post is 100% true. i suspect the poster is a surveyor. realtors dont know squat about surveying. in Wisconsin, it is law that when performing a survey, you MUST monument the property corners if they are missing. it should have been staked.
I ran into this law when I purchased my home. I found out that my house egressed over the property line by 6 inches. The lot next to me was an "out lot" that was put aside by the developer of the area for all neighbor mutual access. After several years of trying to work out a deal. The Neighborhood association fought me on this. As I lived on a lake, they thought I wanted what they felt was theirs. I had asked for only enough property that I would fit back within the Township's guidelines, about 5.5 feet. As the house was almost 100 years old, I felt that I had a good chance at Adverse possession. I had offered to pay the current market price for the property initially. Then they dragged it through the court. In the process, they had to sell another lakefront property that the association had control. All said and done, I took the property I needed and my attorney told me I could have taken the entire lot, as both I and the previous owners had used it for almost 40 years. In hind site, I should have taken the entire lot. As there was always tension and vandalism since I took possession. I woke up one night about 1 AM to find some bozo backing his boat into the lake, right on to my dock. Such fun.
@@DumbledoreMcCracken Thank you, I try. Believe me. I have only discussed a small portion of what had occurred. I would wake up in the morning to have people staring into my window, as the fence was only 5 feet from my house. I came home one evening of the 4th of Jully to find someone(s) had partied in my yard and used my beach. The worst part is they left all their beer can, firework debris and other garbage in my yard. Another day, I came home to find one of my 50-foot tall white pines cut down. There were all kinds of problems from those &@%^%^. You get the idea.
tge neighbor to the left of my mothers house has a fence right up against the property line and would cross it to cut down her trees, she protested and he said "well weve always taken these trees before you were here", my mom went to the records office, found the proerty line was exactly where the neighbors fence was and planted a row of trees up against that, making it impossible to cross onto her property by going over the fence. to the right, the neighbor marked off their property line with large rocks, measuered ten yards into their property, and ran another line of large rocks. these neighbors are avid gardeners, as is my mother, they request she dump all her yard waste in this area as they use it for compost, and they let her use as much compost as she likes for her gardening.
I have a question. I live in North Carolina. I moved into my house in 2011. About 2 weeks before we physically moved in, our neighbor put up a fence along our property line. About 3 years later, I checked online property lines and it was clear the fence was built on our property by about 3 feet. I printed this out showing her the distances from the houses. She refused to move the fence unless I had a survey done. I got the survey which was about $350. She then had the fence moved. My question is can I bill her for the cost of the survey? And what is the proper action someone should take when they are in this situation? Thanks!
So what about these cases where you go on vacation, some con artist breaks in, changes your locks and rents your home out to a family. You came back, a strange family is living in your house and you can't make them leave? We have seen this in the news more than once. I can't understand how committing a crime (the con artist) allows someone else to be able to live in a home that was never put on the market? Doesn't seem like justice to me.
What state? Mine has very good Castle Doctrine laws, if an individual in my state comes home and the locks are not working with their key, they can either call a locksmith or break open their own locks to get into their house. If they see an intruder or intruders in their house and said intruders are acting in a threatening manner and they feel their life is being threatened, they may open fire in legal self defense to stop the threat to their lives, until the threat is neutralized. Make no mistake, someone who has broken into your house in my state is presumed to be attempting to cause grievous bodily harm, for which deadly force is allowed, and the burden of proof rest solely with the prosecution to prove there was anything but an unlawful entry, and that you knew it was anything but an unlawful entry. Kentucky courts have some of the strongest rulings supporting a property owners use of deadly force, if you dont want to die dont break into someones property here. Ironically, the counties where it's most enforced are some of the poorest and someones trailer on a mountain side is about the stupidest place to try and rob.
@@johnfilmore7638 So someone can get away with murder so long as they can convince the person to enter their house first as long as the house owner is smart enough to break a windows or damage the lock first. Seems like a law open to abuse.
@@SurmaSampo everything is tradeoffs, the 1 psycho who will dream up some entrapment of a random person to come to into their home without them there to kill them, is dwarfed by the 10000000 people who break in and rob and rape the victims. Second, just because people CAN does NOT mean they do, people are people and dont morph into killers even if allowed, I know people with intruders and they couldn't bring themselves to shoot someone even if they have the right. But the DETERRENCE factor is HUGE! Criminals who dont care about the risk of jail and know the police take forever to come, victimize with impunity. But they know they could get shot and killed if they try to rob and victimize or gang up to beat someone down, well THAT stops them in their tracks because NOONE wants a real risk of dying for a crime, even the toughest criminals.
So how does the mortgage holder figure into this?? For example, someone may have a lot of land, but they're paying a mortgage on it. Then a squatter comes along and takes possession of it. Eventually the squatter may come to own it through adverse possession, but doesn't the lien-holder have any rights or say? Is he just out of luck if the original owner stops paying his mortgage note? I know someone in Michigan who owns a large ranch in northern Calif. The house and barn have run down to the point where they are no longer usable. But I'm sure some of the adjacent ranchers are using large parts of his property for their cows. The elderly owner is paying the taxes on it and I don't know if he has a mortgage on it or if its free and clear. But if he does have a mortgage, doesn't the lender have any rights to secure the security of his note against adverse possessors? Can a lein-holder foreclose on an adverse possessor? Or can he not because he never had any contract with the squatter to begin with?
Adverse possession in Nevada is 7 years. I had a co-worker who owes numerous remote properties. One day he came to realize that he hadn't been getting a property bill on one of his properties for 5 years? He drove out to that property located about 30 miles from town, in foothills. He discovered that someone had placed a metal gate across the dirt road, and had barbed wire fencing installed around the property. That trespassers had been paying property taxes on that property for those 5 years. My associate attached a chain to the locked gate and pulled the gate down. Driving further up the dirt road, he discovered a double wide trailer installed on the property which was obviously being used as a sort of homestead. He called the Sheriff's Office and had the trespassers given notice to have everything off the property in three days. The only thing that was left was the barbed wire fence. The good side to this is that somebody paid the property taxes for 5 years, and he got his land fenced for free!
??? I guess it worked out, but who the hell has property and assumes they aren't just sending the bill?? And Nothing is due
@@mikerutherford5472 bullshit story
Didn't happen
@@jquest43 Call the DA's office anywhere in Nevada and ask them, if you don't believe it.
@@douglasrodrigues9329 and just how would I do that? They dont give out that info to strangers..sorry I exposed your fantasy comment.🤡
Thanks for this post Steve. I always wondered what kept people from using such laws to take forest land. Since they cann't act against the gov't... well there goes my retirement plan. On a side note. I live next to a park where the city owns and maintains the park. Been here for 19 years and for 18 of those years, I've been maintaining about a 10 x 75 foot swath of the park (trimming bushes, weed control and such). Not claiming the land as it's more decorative than anything... Just funny how they've abandoned it for so long.
On a personal note. Keep up the great work. I've been watching your channel for the past month or so and truly enjoy viewing each episode. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
a church near me tried to mow their neighbors lawn in order to take their property under this law. when the owner realized what the church was doing they put up a sign facing the church that says "thou shalt not steal".
Brilliant
@@Counselor77 I hope this is sarcasm.
@@Counselor77 Um, no where in what you wrote or the comment you are initially responding to does it state that the church was doing them a favor. The opposite in fact was stated by the original post. And your post just said he was being paranoid. So yes, I read what you wrote.
@@Counselor77 You don't know the motives of this particular church and the people who lead it. Did you understand what I wrote? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHURCH WAS DOING. Also, seriously, 2 comments...kinda desperate for attention aren't ya.
@@Counselor77 Or the church had an axe to grind against them. I have met a great many petty church members.
A friend of mine here in northern Ireland came close to loosing a field he owned due to adverse possession but he found out in time that a local farmer was grazing cattle on it. He also found out that if cattle are on your land, you can claim ownership of them. He just let some of the locals know that he planned to claim the cattle the next time he was in the area. The farmer stopped using the field.
I would think that by paying property taxes on any property every year would nullify any adverse possession claim.
pete smyth The only one that can pay the taxes is the owner of the property not squatters. Let’s get real. If I pay my property taxes every year, year after year, that is my claim to my property.
Most places you can get lists of properties that at are behind on taxes.
I think the old English laws that set this up intended to prevent abandoned property from being forever abandoned and decrepit. They favored a new owner taking care of the land and rewarded that land to the new caretaker, taxes not being important. Failure of tax payment results in government auctioning the land to also find a new caretaker
No, just your right to own property.
@@SJKile Not true. Payment of taxes is not only not proof of ownership; it is not even evidence of ownership.
Your remarks about the legal aspects are pure gold. On a practical level, the boundary line management is critical. As a former surveyor, I tell my friends every occasion that I can: Get it surveyed!. If the survey was recent, find your corner markers, (typically rods driven into the ground) and enhance the location at the surface with witnesses like rock piles, tree marks. pence posts and lots of photographs from many directions for context. In the old days, we protected our boundaries with guns and fighting. Today we do it with legal instruments like surveys, legal descriptions and evidence like the enhancements described above. At sale of property, a survey or re-survey before sale offers the ultimate protection for everyone. I am tired of seeing people blow off the need for a survey, and then later come crying for justice, at which time it is far more costly. The cost of a survey is actually a tiny fraction of the total real estate transaction.
@Tt Miller RIGHT! A good surveyor will always approach the door of all adjoiners, and advise them of what's going on. My staff had the orange safety jackets and business cards, to give to neighbors. In this profession, those, who fail to extend that courtesy, are said to have "near-death-experiences".
Steve, This actually happened to my mother in Utah. She purchased a house and later had it surveyed and found the property fence was 5 feet off to her neighbors favor. She attempted to sue the neighbors to get the property back. The fence had been in place for more than 20 years, and because of that she lost the case. I told her she should have sued the sellers of her house for misrepresenting the property.
I have been mowing the grass on property adjoining mine (on both sides) for the past 21 years. My neighbor, who actually owns it, hasn't been here as long as I have. I acknowledge that he owns it and would never dream of trying to take it via "adverse possession". The property appears to just be a continuation of my yard so I keep it up, mow the grass, trim trees and haul off brush, etc. I always ask my neighbors permission if I need to do any major work to maintain the property and he tells me to treat it "like it was mine". We have never had a problem and do not expect to. Neighbors treating each other like neighbors are supposed to.....try it....it works.
That almost happened to my mom in L.A. She has a very large, tree filled, back yard. A group of men from somewhere in the middle east (I don't know which country) moved into the house behind her, took down the fence and hooked up her hose and started to take her water. (I mention where they are from as they were foreigners, yet not hispanic, so we thought maybe the rules where they are from were different)
She yelled at them often, and they were very nice, but they kept doing it, hoping she was elderly and would give up. She had to hire a boundary survey and put up a better fence.
In older parts of L.A. the power co. and the phone co. have leeways to access their poles, sometimes the boundaries get blurred. But these guys were playing an old game on an old gal. She fixed the problem with an 8 foot fence, plus the power co. took away some property from these other neighbours when they reassessed.
Someone just tried to sell my Father's house. He was a squatter. But he didn't live there long enough, nor claim any legal title to it and tried to sell it as if he were the owner. Now he's in prison for fraud.
The poor "trespasser" could "disappear" into a landfill, and never be seen again.
Yep
Hahahaha
House could also burn.
Check.
What you just insinuated to is a felony crime. I might suggest you approach matters within the context of laws not by breaking laws.
When I bought my home, I had the property surveyed. The survey showed that the fence on one side was 3 feet 4 inches on the neighbor's side of the property line. The fence was overgrown with bushes, but was visible. Weeks later, I spoke with the neighbor and told him that I would be replacing the fence eventually, and moving it back to the correct place, giving him back the area that was his. He said the fence was there before he bought his home, and that was in the late 70's. He had no idea where the property line was, and he said he wasn't worried about it. It took a few years before I got around to the fence, but after I cut down the bushes to get to the fence, removed the old fence and moved the new fence to the correct position, the neighbor realized how much room he had between the fence and the side of his house. Now, he drives his truck and yard trailer down that side, when doing yard work. We've been very good neighbors for twenty years now.
You are nice could have filled for the land
That is so nice keep up the good work
You can be my neighbor anytime. Give me a call.
I appreciate the way you create your videos. Short title and intro, great info, and done! No long Intro, no press the like button and so on before even seeing the video and no commercials. Thank you Steve!!
This is why (in Florida) almost all homes bought with 3rd party financing are subject to surveys. I highly suggest all homebuyers get surveys no matter the terms of purchase. Also, just a PSA (in Florida), surveyors are exempt from prosecution due to trespassing while performing their duties of land mapping. Regulations of Occupations and Professions, Title XXXII, Chapter 472, section 29. Surveyors have the right to access all 3rd party property (with a few exceptions, and limitations), and dig in your yard for the property markers, or do minor trimming to vegetation, because they are typically unable to do their job without this ability. So be careful when confronting surveyors, you may put yourself in legal jeopardy if you react to them adversely.
Ha yes; I used to be a surveyor in Florida.
Smugly reciting 472 to adjacent homeowners could have been the start of my legal career.
@@DoubleBassX2 I certainly wouldn't want to do it. A land surveyor in a southern conservative state is more dangerous than active military.
100% spot on..i wanted to expand my garage and the city wanted a plot plan..so i got one and my property line was not where i thought it was... technically i had been using the gas stations that is next to me parking lot for the past 17 years...nobody realized ..when i bought the home my realtor said here is YOUR parking lot. .i had been plowing it and using it as my own etc....that gas station has had 4 different owners over the years and nobody has ever disputed it.,its 20 years in my state and i can get it....the way its set up everybody would assume its mine because it is right next to my home and there is a wooded and then the gas station..
So you're a thief
Hell awaits
@@jquest43 how am i a thief??
@@workingshlub8861 you want to steal the gas stations property..and you have to ask WHY??
@@jquest43 are you that thick??? if it is NOT contested you can claim it as your own after 20 years...
@@jquest43 you have never owned property or ever had any type of intellectual property have you???
This is a prime example of why surveys are important, you should always get a survey any time you buy a property especially if there is any question of the boundary lines.
Kudos to you Mr Lehto. I live in Scandinavia so none of your subject matters apply to me directly. I still watch your videos and keep watching 🙂
Greetings from Sweden!
Hey - thanks for the note!
Howdy from America (his content largely doesn't apply to me either because I don't live in MI)!
😅👍
We tried to and successfully avoided this happening to us in Virginia. Homeowner next to us had, for an unknown length of time, been stacking firewood on our property. He did so with the approval of the previous owner. When we constructed a fence to allow us to have a dog, the neighbors were concerned about the fence location. It was actually about 6 inches inside our property line. I told them that I would put a gate there if they wanted to use the place to stack their wood but that I was just following our property line. They weren't too pleased but I did that for that exact reason - to prevent any claim of adverse possession in the future. (They never did take me up on that offer to stack the wood in the same place.)
California adverse possession laws require at least five years of possession and payment of taxes throughout that period in order to be eligible for legal title. Seems if you were owner but not paying your taxes, you should expect something adverse top come of it.
The county would have sold the property for taxes way before that
Great video Steve -- Sometimes doing nothing isn't the right step for getting along with your neighbors! Most people are unaware of this law!
So what happens if the "adverse possessor" mysteriously disappears?
pete smyth what? Where did he go? Damn he was just here a little while ago.
Tough to convict with no corpse.
He disappeared! Don't worry y'all, I'll solve this mystery! Puff puff cough... He was abducted by aliens. Problem solved. Evidence you say? The aliens used the adverse possession and stole the evidence!
@@randyweaver6543 it might be a difficult but not unheard of 20 years ago the big news story around my hometown was this young woman had gone missing they never found her but her boyfriend at the time is sitting on death row at the moment his uncle to towns police chief served 15 years for helping him try to get away with it and a few other people served time for abuse of a corpse that they couldn't even prove existed besides the land would just be a part of the estate not like it would revert back to the previous owner
Lot's of places to dig holes.
Barrels of acid.
I got pigs to feed.
I have a friend whose property was parceled off a much larger piece. He has been using an about 40 x 200 foot piece of the neighbors property to park trailers and farm equipment. This has gone on for about 20 years and 3 different owners of the property. He just always gets along with the neighbors and helps them out with his equipment. Win win in his case.
They should be giving him permission. End of story.
I love these videos, they combine practical advice with delightful and often obscure aspects of the law.
It seems the lesson here is that if you're going to build a fence pay for a surveyor. :)
When we built our split rail in Maryland our neighbor was happy to split the cost of the surveyor with me. He was, admittedly, a GREAT neighbor.
Doing family heritage research 5 years ago I came across court records from where my great grandfather lost such a case. Someone had built a fence in the wrong place and nobody noticed for 15 years. When a survey was done eventually, the interloper simply refused to move the fence or pay for the land, took it to court, and they won ownership of a little strip of land. My ggfather lost like 1 acre out of 160. Which rang a bell... I remember my mom mentioning that event when I was a kid (and pretty completely incapabable of absorbing the details).
In Louisiana the term is 10 years, but other than that it is the same as in Michigan. There are cases on the books of people taking possession of homes in New Orleans, fixing them up and openly living in them for 10 years, than owning the homes, paying for nothing more than the restoration of the damaged property. However, this was risky and many lost a lot when the original owner showed up 6 years after the storm to reclaim their property.
I had a guy try to claim "right of easement" using my father`s yard for 6 years as a service drive to bring his firewood into his backyard because his yard was land locked due to a garage that was built. I was OK with it until he started turning his backyard into a junk yard. He thought I was being ridiculous when I told him I didn`t appreciate looking at a old junk pickup out my back window. Needless to say he doesn`t come through the yard anymore.
this story is really random and completely unrelated to anything discussed in the video but ok cool rant about your nasty neighborhood
@@thenormalyears It bothered you that much that you had to comment. 🤣
@@thenormalyears Your limited capacity makes you not relate the stories, please go upstairs and ask your mom to explain and follow her advice and get a job.
Our neighbor who has horsies and moo-moos, has a fence line that crosses my property by about 2 feet. Thing is, his property has been his for years before I moved here. I never said a word, because he's a great neighbor who done really great things for my family and its not enough land loss to worry about. In light of your video's exposition, he probably owns that two feet anyway due to adverse possession. Plus I have no plans that would absolutely require the use of those two feet.
The problem occurs if and when you go to sell your property as it can create a defect of title. As long as both property owners are on understanding terms( preferably in writing about boundries) then adverse possession can't be claimed (permission vs. Involuntary use)...
I run into a similar situation at work. I do fire clearance inspections in southern California. I don't work for the government, it's a program to encourage people to fire harden their properties through grants. They apply for the grant, do the work, and I go and inspect the property. To receive the grant, you have to meet California defensible space standards, which require 100' of clearance around your house. Not bare soil, but weeds cut, no dead vegetation, reduced vegetation, etc.
But what about when your property doesn't extend a full 100' from your house, and the neighbor is not maintaining their property? Many owners are willing to clear that vegetation on the neighbors property to protect their own house, particularly if it's an undeveloped property, or the neighbors house is thousands of feet away and over the hill. Often they get along and the other owners are fine with the brush clearance being done. But others have strict no trespassing attitudes, often stating they do not want the neighbors treating the properties as their own and gaining possession of it. I don't even know how or if it would work in California, but they believe it will.
The complication is if your neighbors have a house within 100' of your property, you are required by county code to maintain the complimentary 100' of clearance around their house. So if you won't let them clear it, you are required to. But very often they still refuse to do so until they get cited. Every year.
And to be clear, the clearance standards and the program I work for only enforces the clearance on property you own and control.
Steve, would you please consider an episode, which deals with, in some detail, how homeowners can effectively deal with un-invited guests. Specifically what can you do when they refuse to leave? thanks
Sorry I'm late responding..to chase them away,rent an elephant and put it in front of the property while feeding it ExLax,works everytime!- Steve
Shoot them if they wont leave, castle doctrine.
Dial 911 and report them...
We had that issue in CA
GFs (now wife) Ex husband refused to leave. I tried the subversive method. Moving in and walking around naked, disconnect internet in the room he was staying in, being a complete a-hole while I was home.
In the end it took a judge to evict him. He stayed an extra 10min (12:10am) just to think he won. Took several months for court dates and his lawyer trying to delay.
@@tyree9055 I don't think you guys understand what I'm getting at.
Unless you have signs in your front yard saying No Trespassing,
No Solicitation, or an active restraining order against this "uninvited"
guest - they are not breaking any laws by walking up your driveway,
approach you and your family completely out of the blue and
saying "hey longtime no see" and then after telling them to leave or
F____ off... they are not breaking any law by NOT leaving...so
the police wont help you if a crime is not being committed.
further...just because these "uninvited' guest(s) refuse to leave
or DONT leave, after you tell them to leave, does not in any way
grant you the homeowner any right to become physically violent
and remove them.
Legally what can any homeowner do when confronted with this type
of situtation.. For example... you the homeowner cannot just draw a gun,
order them off of your property and then shoot them where they stand if they don't leave...
Unless they pull a gun and threaten you first... You better have witnesses in this
case... again.. what do you do?
I just sat through a great law class. Thanks Steve for a fascinating discussion.
If a Trespasser can somehow come to own your property "Legally", then there's something legally wrong with our "legal" system!
It's not really proper to say it happens "legally". The doctrine of adverse possession is nothing more than a conditional statute of limitations on a tort claim. And it's generally a LOT longer than the statute of limitations on every other tort claim you could make. So since the owner loses the legal right to enforce title through the Court due to the statute of limitations, the adverse possessor basically wins by default. The "quiet title action" is to make it official on deeds and land records.
I'm a licensed land surveyor and found Steve's assessment is spot on. My advice to landowners is to occupy openly to what you think is the extent of your domain and if your neighbor doesn't complain let the repose pass for 7-20 years and it's yours, no need for court action on your part. If your think a neighbor is trespassing confront him amicably and maybe agree on a Boundary Adjustment, exchange of quitclaim deeds or let things lie. No need for a survey.
OTOH if your neighbor is an asshole and the encroachment is significant and recent defend yourself by buying my service to prove the boundary line. Unfortunately I'll charge $3,000 so if it's a minor issue it may not be worth it.
Lawyers are advocates for their clients but land surveyors are not; our charge is to protect the public so we often do surveys which prove your neighbor is right and you're the loser. Sorry.
Adverse possession is rooted in the idea that all land should be productive. Given enough time if you cede land to your neighbor without complaint he'll gain rights to it because of his labor. That's fair.
One thing I remember about Adverse Possession is that you must KNOW that the other person is using your property and you do absolutely nothing. If you mention to them that it's your property that it's on, no adverse possession is possible.
Oregon is only 10 years, but it has some tough conditions to meet as follows:
Oregon law sets a high bar for those seeking to claim ownership through adverse possession. The statute sets out detailed requirements, which generally include:
The person claiming ownership by adverse possession must have actually used the property as though it were their own. Depending on the type of land at issue, this use might vary. It might mean farming the land, fencing it in or improving upon it. Grazing livestock isn’t enough by itself, however, to constitute “actual use.”
The use must have been “open and notorious,” meaning it wasn’t done sneakily or under the radar. To anyone looking on, it must have appeared that the possessor owned the property at issue.
The possessor must have used the property continuously for at least 10 years.
The possession must have been “hostile” (rather than permissive), meaning it was in opposition to the true owner’s interests.
The possessor must have been honestly (and reasonably) mistaken in believing they owned the property. As a result, intentional adverse possession isn’t possible in Oregon.
Finally, in Oregon the possessor must prove each of the statutory elements by “clear and convincing evidence”-a high burden of proof that is more exacting than the usual “preponderance of the evidence” standard in civil cases.
OMG I don't care
Steve Lehto, i love your collection of mics, i have a couple that I always wanted to restore just never got the time. I'm now retired and disabled and time to let go, old RCA tube mic, #072 of Fender Tape Echo,
I put up a fence in my yard where there was an old alleyway no longer used between my house and the neighbors. I gave my plans to the city which included fencing in the alleyway . It was approved and I gained 30-40 ft of new yard space.
I remember several years ago reading about a military guy coming back from his tour overseas to find someone living in his house and the sheriff wouldn’t evict the squatter for … reasons. I’ve also heard about scammers getting a deed transferred to themselves through some kind of identity theft.
That is when you call a few of your military buddies and do an adverse repossession on the squatters.
Thank you for your advice and legal insight on commonly discussed issues. I've learned a lot .
GREAT video.....my cousin is now dealing with a similar situation, wanting to purchase a piece of land which has a squatter using part of the acreage, and the owner is afraid to approach the squatter because of his family being powerful. I think fencing off the squatted portion and selling the rest is a way of dealing with this, avoiding any contact between my cousin as new buyer and the squatter, no disagreements at any rate. Poor old lady who needs to sell the land is not able to use any of it as it is........
I bought my house in 2010 and it was advertised as having a storage shed. After I bought the house, I later figured out that the previous owner built the shed on my neighbor's property. Me and him have a good relationship! I did tell him about adverse possession, and if I ever sold the house, the next owners might try to take his land thru adverse possession, so I said to avoid that, he needs to give me permission to keep the shed there and use it. He did that and we bypassed the possibility of adverse possession because we removed the "taking possession without permission" part of adverse possession. When I rebuild the shed, I'm going to locate it within my setback.
Spend the money for a survey before buying any landed property.
You got me. I bought a house next to county property. I offered to buy that property since they no longer were using the abandoned pumping station that they removed. They said I could use it like was mine. So I've been mowing it and using it like it's mine. It's been 13 years.
If the time limit is up, take it, by this law it's yours! Make sure there aren't any other laws you are violating or are limiting you. But this is, I think, the exact reason this concept exists.
It’s all Indian land anyway
United States doesn’t own any land here
United States only encompasses 10 square blocks of Washington DC
They keep their citizens stupid for a reason
So there is citizens think the United States has power and money
Which it does not
If you allow this to happen to you, being the property owner, you deserve to get screwed. The FIRST and most important rule as a land owner is to ensure your property lines ANY time you have 1) new neighbors, 2) an existing neighbor builds a fence or structure. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure YOUR property remains yours in all circumstances. If you have trouble talking to people, get counseling on how to be more confident because this DOES happen more than people think.
Edit: forgot to congratulate you on a well done legal info-vid. So well done there! Subscribed!
In Canada where i live i was at a public hearing for the Landlord Tenant act where a real estate agent had taken up residence in a vacant multi million dollar mansion that they were supposed to be trying to sell. The Landlord Tenant act required a hearing to vacate the agent from the property where he had been living for almost a year. The agent knew the law and that the eviction process took a very long time. Their modus operandi was moving from one high end vacant property to another with no rent or lease.
I mow my grandsons lawn. A bloody lot of times. I might mention this video to him. 😆
If someone ever moved onto my property and claimed it was theirs and took it, they'd have a hard time enjoying it with all their limbs missing.
Ok rambo
lol nothing is softer than a UA-cam commenter who is promising to kill someone
@@thenormalyears Who's threatening that? I watched my dad lose everything he owned including the contents of his house. I can assure you that if anyone tried that, they would not enjoy their spoils.
You'd then have a hard time enjoying your own property from a prison cell, then in the mean time I will move onto your land and mow it and pay some taxes and get free land.
@@rdizzy1 No you wouldnt when Bubba has the same idea and doesnt want to share with you
Yeah, that happened to my father-in-law. Fence 2ft on his property and when he went to sell, and buyer wanted property surveyed and realized neighbors fence was on property and neighbor paved driveway right up to fence. My father-in-law couldn't make neighbor move fence and had to even to reduce price of property. Note to self, promptly correct any property line mistakes .
was the fence on his property when he purchased originally? Did he have title insurance?
@@bc1969214 No, he was renting home to a long term tenant and wasn't there 24/7. He was buddies with neighbor but in the end got screwed. When you give right of way to anyone you have to block access 1 day per year or you lose it. That's the law in my state.
@@benkrom2737 oh, so if the neighbor asked permission and your FIL agreed the way to handle this (hindsight of course) is to charge them whatever the encroachment would decrease the property value. Unless this was a case where the tenant didn't say a thing to him and the neighbor took advantage.
These stories are good to read, things you don't think of.
@@bc1969214 Neighbor had mentioned he was putting up fence cause property was being rented. There wasn't a definitive property line, just grass area. 2ft easily able to do without raising a eyebrow. Wasn't till property surveyed and Neighbor wouldn't give back land. I learned a long time ago never lend anyone anything you're not willing to lose. That includes tools, money,and property ,etc.
@@bc1969214 You can let neighbor use area, BUT you have to document that the easement is closed at least 1 day out of the year. If it's open for years without any closure, property is fair game. Title insurance only states you own property. You will be still paying property taxes on property that you have zero control over property being encroached. Best thing is to just give it up and let them pay the taxes. And a lesson learned. Unless you have endless amounts of money to fight it , the cost for a lawyer to reverse it usually isn't worth it. Because of this I had seller survey my property when I bought my house. Different towns and states laws are different so may not apply to your area.
Thank you for talking about this. I've heard about it before, but I never looked into it.
i get the fenceline thing makes sense. wonder about for example tho an abandoned house next door in detroit. if u incorporate your neighboring connected abandoned land into yours to protect the value of your own house (in other words redoing the house next door and rehabbing it or taking a piece of the yard) can it qualify as hostile ownership? interesting video btw thanks.
I remember hearing of this concept when I was a kid. It was referred to as squatter's rights and supposedly took 17 years. I'm not an attorney 😃 and was certainly unaware that the rules may be different across state jurisdictions. Kinda cool to have a more credible explanation. Thanks, Steve.
A gentleman I know ( a new homeowner also ) just recently lost a huge piece of his backyard. Years and years ago the fence was put in by the home adjacent to him. He had it surveyed, and took it to court but still lost it. This happened in the state of missouri.
If you know about it and don't do anything for years and years, that's tacit consent. Use it or lose it.
After the housing bust, people tried to use this by moving into foreclosed houses. They would get utilities in their name, pay the taxes, and move in.
If my name is on the title and I am paying taxes on it, It is mine !!!
Someone comes along and lays claim to it, I call that stealing!
You don't own squat! Why do you pay tax to the government on property you own? Read Senate Doc. 43. 73rd Congress, 1st Session...it states in black & white when it comes to property rights we are presumed to be "mere users"...no rights just granted benefits & privileges.
@@manunit3659 just read this comment after I wrote my comment under yours. Thank you Sir 4 this KNOWLEDGE
I first ran into this on a trip to Uruguay. They have a national policy that is designed to help the homeless by allowing people to move into empty homes, and if they dwell there for a time period, the property becomes theirs. This has led to many people who have vacation homes that are empty much of the year to hire people to live there fo prevent this!
We would be available for this if its on a lake and maybe near mountains
Well shit, that means the neighbors on both sides of my mom's house stole a foot or two. Of course, there is a little tag that tells where the legal property line is. When we went to build the block wall in the back yard, we built it down the proper property line. Oddly, we both sometimes mow one another's little part of the lawn on one side. Whoever gets out there first just mows the whole thing.
When I was younger, a neighbor built a brick wall that was partially on our property... It was chalk lined and they were told, in writing, to move it over.
After lots of drama, they finally moved it. You have to be on top of your property!
My MIL's neighbors were trying to do this for her beachfront property. It's a summer home, and we caught them using her garage for storage, stealing electricity, attempted to put up a greenhouse on her property, all sorts of little crap.
Adverse possession doesn't exist in this state. You could squat on a property and pay the taxes for decades, but it doesn't matter here. I never bothered to let them know their scheme was pointless, but we changed all the house locks, put locking covers on the outside outlets, and set up security cameras. Didn't take long for them to quit trying to steal a million dollar property from an old lady with dementia.
AP exists in all 50 states.
@@Cotronixco Yes, but is nearly impossible to actually do in some of them. The threshold for proving it where I live is so high that it might as well not exist except for long-term abandoned property. When I last checked the state statutes even the old trick of paying the taxes wasn't going to work.
@@nolongeramused8135 Paying taxes to gain possession is statutory in only a few states.
@@Cotronixco But most people are under the impression that it's sort of universal way to steal property; go pay their back taxes and TA-DA, you now own it.
What really irritates me is that adverse possession needs to be planned, sometimes decades in advance. Squatters shouldn't have rights - they should have prison sentences.
@@nolongeramused8135 You are correct, so as long as the owner presses charges within the statutory number of years, your wish is granted. But if the owner does nothing about it for 20 years, it's his own fault.
Great video Steve! One of my relatives has gone through this with his neighbor. Another issue he had was trying to sell his house with a basement he refinished without pulling a permit. With the thousands of people who do their own projects without pulling a permit, would you consider doing a video about the consequences of not pulling permits?
Great idea! I finish basements for customers & ALWAYS pull a permit. Depending on the town, you could run into trouble selling the house- electrical & plumbing inspections are very important as well as structural engineered beams.
My family moved into a new build home when I was born, the back yard was 90 x 30 feet. when I was 14 my dad had an extension build on the side of the house and the land was surveyed. The surveyors discovered that the neighbours property ran into my dad's by 18" at the far end. Dad kicked up a stink about it but like his legal guy said, after 14 years its a bit late to complain. I don't know but he probably did not have a survey when he bought the place, and whats his loss? A very narrow wedge that he never knew about until the survey. I live in the UK.
thanks for your videos, they are amusing and educational at the same time, never hurts to know a few things regarding the laws
It's tricky business. When my cousin died his widow contacted my dad and the other siblings about signing the deed to my grandpa's property over to her. Grandpa built & lived in the house next door to my aunt (whose house he also built) in a poor neighborhood next to the railroad tracks, but it was just a few blocks from the beach which back then was an undesirable area. After grandpa died, my aunt & later my cousin, took over paying the property taxes. Not sure what happened to either house, but the lot had become very valuable due to its location walking distance from the beach with Condo's going up all around them. My cousin's widow wanted to sell both properties to a developer she was working with. Before signing, my dad asked an attorney about it and found he was entitled to 1/4th interest in grandpa's property as one of four original heirs (they also included a deceased uncle's widow and children for his share).
I don't know what kind of magic that attorney had, but my aunt & cousin had to have been paying property taxes for decades. All of my aunt's family that shared the same portion of inheritance as my cousin's widow were in agreement the property should go to my cousin's widow and wouldn't cooperate in the legal negotiations that ensued.
My dad and his siblings won and fortunately our family has, for the most part, moved past it and remained on good terms.
Great, great topic. In MN, there is a Sup Ct. case that noted all of the elements you suggested, with a couple of exceptions. 1. Although I don't know how universally applied, the Court said the party forfeiting the property had to have actual knowledge of the adverse possession. That it wasn't enough to meet just the time requirement. 2. The second item is that in cases without an actual fence or other clear property demarcation, mowing or maintaining the property is not a sufficient ground for adverse possession. My reading between the lines is the forfeiting party has to have demonstrated some level of "intent" or silly negligence to forfeit the property. Probably less than gross negligence but a pretty high standard nevertheless.
Reading MN statutes and case law on this topic actually seems pretty reasonable. However, as we all know in real life, that isn't how things always work out 🙂
You should not be able to obtain property by adverse possession under any circumstances, Without giving the option to pay for the Plot of land
Last time surveyors were out my way,
one of em flipped a cigarette butt out their window...
...as they're driving up & down the road,
my neighbor's field catches fire.
Almost reached his propane tank before
the water truck showed up.
I'm sure the survey co. did
not charge for that extra service.
Wasn’t the propane tank properly buried? Tank should be robust enough to withstand grass fire.
@@finngamesknudson1457 it's above ground. Mine too, as is the big refill tanks our propane co. uses.
@@favoritemustard3542 - Sorry for the brain fart. Was thinking of my MIL’s tank I stumbled across last week. Guessing her expensive neighborhood requires burial. Where I go to refill my BBQ tanks is also an upright tank above ground. Does make fire “a bit” more exciting doesn’t it?
That's a nice Astatic D104 mic in the background (in great condition). I have the Golden Eagle model, still in the box, never had a end soldered on.
I just looked up the Iowa adverse possession law...only 5 years required!
Cool, was going to ask you to do a video on squatters, you covered it. There is a plethora of videos dealing with squatters, especially in the Detroit area..
I am in Michigan and saw this happen. A property owner allowed school children cross his property to avoid traffic dangers. Later they added a safe street for the kids and he closed his fence. The parents complained the safe street path is longer to school. They won and he lost his property. No good deed goes unpunished?
Wow, there seems to be nothing sacred…. or “owned,” it makes you want to own NOTHING.
That sounds more like a "prescriptive easement" issue than adverse possession. In other words, the public gained the right to use the property because they had used it for so long. The owner would still own the property but could not restrict kids from walking across it.
I have watched many of your videos, this one is a good one.
I gotta know the outcome of the city councils removal of the trees.
Steve we know a man who went on vacation for two months. When he returned home his house was occupied by other people who had changed the locks and moved into his house.
This was in North Carolina.
He went to court and lost his case.
Now in North Carolina the ADVERSE POSSESSION LAWS have a statute of limitations of TWENTY YEARS.
But he was on vacation for two months.
What can he do to get his house back?
USA is again in wild wild west era ;)
Wait till they leave, break in and change the locks. That's an Uno Reverse card
I have woods behind my house. A neighbor had cut a path through it and claimed it was on their property. I quickly had a survey done, fenced and a few metal no trespassing signs added facing their property.
That's why a good Hedger is so important. A Hedger maintains the perimeter of a property by managing the shrubs on the border of the property. A good hedger can slowly encroach on a neighbor's land and if not noticed, can earn his keep by growing your possession.
This exact thing happened to one of my neighbors a couple years ago. He bought his house many years ago and later decided to have a survey done only to discover the fence separating his neighbors yard from his, was 2 feet onto what should have been his property. It went to court and as I'm sure you've guessed, he lost and his neighbor got the extra couple feet of yard space officially. It caused a lot of tension between the neighbors and the one who got the property ended up moving to get away from the disgruntled neighbor.
The next person who buys the land will still own it. Makes no sense for the moron to keep being a baby about it.
@@rdizzy1 Yeah. You know how people can be. They hold grudges forever when they have a sense of something unfair happening to them. He has a for sale sign on his house today. Hopefully after he moves he can finally let it go.
@@marcsmith2708 Yeah, I don't understand it whatsoever. Maybe it is because I grew up poor and my family never owned anything other than a shitty used van with 100K+ miles, but I don't have this delusional attachment to property and insane defense of said property personally. I wouldn't give a shit at all if a person put a fence 2 feet onto my property or 20 feet onto my property. Fuck the rat race.
So here is a question for you. My parents home was purchased in the 1920's by a previous generation family member. At the time the street out front was a 1 lane gravel road. Now the road has been paved and widened to a 2 lane road with small shoulders on each side. Our property survey shows we own to the middle of the street and the towns own maps show the same, however the police insist that in addition to the lane of road on our property, that there is a 10 foot easement on the side of the road. The road is popular and car dealers routinely park cars in front of the house on our lawn advertising for sale (a pain to mow around). The police refuse to do anything about it arguing that its city property even though the building department admits its not. The building department says I can put in fiberglass rods to discourage folks from parking there but asked me not to put boulders or large rocks there (the mail box gets run over from time to time as well). Has the county already essentially taken the property even though they didn't pay for it?
I hate to see the government just steal property because they didn't research ownership but I'm guessing based on the survey they did (we got the survey done because of the exact reason for your video, a new neighbor put up a fence and put it in 2 feet over the property line. We got the fencing removed but they haven't removed the posts yet (I'm sure lifting out the cement is expensive and he's just left the posts so far taking the fencing down)
I had a similar situation.
To answer your question, the state ( town) owns the property, to the extent that they have right away but they expect you to keep it up, i.e. mow it. And your taxes are calculated like it is yours but, most likely, you will not be able to build on it. :(
At least, that was my experience. Commies! lol
@@picturemetrollin2093 Well, remember our property includes half the street in addition to the shoulder and grass, on the good side, the zoning wasn't changed and the town building department says today if we want to tear down and rebuild, we could build an 85ft x 100ft foot home (up to 2 stories, a 17,000 sqft behemoth) on the lot as they still consider that ground part of the lot size for zoning purposes (otherwise we would be undersized as the other home lots purchased later are zoned R2 instead of R1 requiring smaller footprints - but with those smaller footprints they are still > $1million homes as the area has become an exclusive area with professional sports players, musicians and CEO's).
@@johnnelson5083 Yeah, about the house i ownd, the stake that defined the property line was driven in the middle of the street. The house across the street had a big oak tree that the people that put the street in, I assume in the twenties, wanted to avoid so they moved the road. And I should mention that the city had a 20' easement between lots where the street should have been. Don't know if that made sense but anyway anyway the city told me the owned a 10' from the street and I couldn't build nothing there Of course I didn't want to but
Adverse possession here in indiana is 10yrs plus the following
1) control
2) intent
3) notice
4) duration
Also here in indiana you have to pay the taxes on that property for ten years. My question is how can said person pay taxes on a small section of neighbors property when its in their (neighbors) name? Also one of the requirements is "intent" meaning that said person cannot knowingly use neighbors yard which means if said person is paying taxes on a section of neighbors property then said person knowingly knows that property belongs to neighbor.
I was thinkinv the same thing.
I live in a rural area, where title is often not well documented, and when we closed the sale, we discovered that the land purchased was comprised of three separate parcels, only one of which was actually owned. We had to get a slew of octogenarians to swear affidavits showing that the owners from whom we purchased had occupied, used and maintained the two extra parcels since 1948. We were able to establish adverse possession and gain title to the whole parcel. It is tricky, in our jurisdiction the time is 20 years.
Who had owned the other 2 parcels before?
@@bradallen1832 Several parcels had been owned by one family. Two other houses had been demolished 20 + years ago. Original owner long since passed on.
My Grandmother’s property was condemned for a city easement/alleyway. The city took half of her property and a corresponding half from her neighbor. Eventually the alleyway was blocked at one end due to development and at the ten year mark, both my Grandma and her neighbor took back their land from the city. I don’t think the city was any wiser.
Illinois requires in title search previous surveys, and new survey must be conducted at prospective owner cost prior to closing.
That's not a bad idea.
Sorry I made the error of sending my questions before I watched the ENTIRE video. Since you cover the topics so thoroughly I should have know you would address my questions
This almost happened to me when buying a house. Luckily they had just put up the fence and the pre purchase title search picked it up. Couldn’t close until it was removed
I once knew a woman who purchased a small house in the middle of farm property.
She had a long driveway, gravel, which extended from the adjacent apartment complex to her property. Prior to her purchasing the home a large apartment complex was constructed at the back portion next to her property. Her driveway involved the owners of the home using the apartment parking lot to gain access to the main road. She still had this long driveway. From the highway, onto the apartment complex entrance, across it's highway frontage parking lots to the North end of this large complex. At which point her private driveway began. This entire drive was in farmed fields of corn or soy beans. It was basically brush and tree line most of the drive. When one would drive onto her private drive, roughly 10 to 15 feet, one would cross existing (yet no longer in use) single rail set of train tracks, turn sharply left, drive North parallel to the train tracks for quite a distance. At the far end of the drive was another sharp left. Crossing the train tracks a second time. This is where her home was situated. The house was surrounded by mature trees, brush, her flower gardens. At the rear of her house was her garage, out buildings, chicken coop, swimming pool, a detached building with a screened in enclosure for an additional recreation type of area. She had vegetable gardens, flower gardens, a chicken yard. Dogs, cats, kids. She had a good size gravel parking area at the front of her home. This is where the cars were parked. Her driveway extended to the West of her house to behind her house to get to her garage and the buildings in the back of her house. Along the outer West driveway were mature trees. On the other side of these trees were more farmer fields as far as the eye could see. No other roads or development. They had posted no trespassing signs at the entrance to the driveway on the apartment complex side of the property, along the apartment complex side of the back of the property and on the buildings at the back of the property, but not along the West side of the property.
Years went by. Eventually the farmer fields to the West of her property was purchased for a housing development. Including a new elementary school across the street from the houses backing up to her West side driveway with the existing mature trees.
When they purchased the home, back in the 70's or 80's, the survey and title company mentioned a problem with the property at the West side drive, which was in existence and used from the previous owners.
What ever the issue was they never had it remedied and went through with the sale.
In the mid 90's is when the new construction was taking place on the property to the West of her property. The new elementary school was complete. Her younger kids would cut through the yards on the West of her property, cross the street in this secluded residential area to get to school. It was a convenience not to have to drive them to the apartment complex to catch the school bus as they had done in the years prior to the new elementary school being constructed. Also, the new elementary school eliminated the need to bus elementary kids out of this area, as they could now all walk to the new elementary school.
One spring day she noticed surveyors on her property abutting the newly constructed homes. They had a discussion about her driveway and her use of it. It being her property and one of the neighbors wishing to put up fencing.
Some weeks, months, not sure how long after this, she came home to find one of the neighbors erecting a fence on her West driveway property. As you might imagine they argued he was trespassing, illegally constructing a barrier on her property, they both threatened to sue. She began removing postings and all that she could to remove from her property the construction the neighbor began. The police were called. The neighbor was told he could do no more constructing of the fence as it was obstructing their driveway. They would need to take the matter to court. Her husband further removed the remaining fence posts off the property and neatly stacked it on the neighbors property. To shorten this story, the neighbor cut down the mature trees on his side of the driveway. He was granted the property with which to erect this fence. As the property was within his legal rights. They were to find another way with which to drive around to the back of the property to gain access to their garage and their back buildings where they kept trucks and other equipment. This was in the courts for over a year.
I don't understand how it became that they lost access to that easement. Which, legally speaking as I understand it, that easement is to continue until they no longer have use of it.
Ultimately, both parties sold and moved.
Here in Ontario, Canada. My Father who had 125 acres lost 3.25 acres to the township because of of adverse possession which lead to expropriation of said land, because my Father did not maintain a fence bordering a road next to that property. People started using the land to drive onto and then the township deposited some gravel on that property to fill in some low spots so peoples cars wouldn't get stuck. The original reason this property had a trail on it was so that property owner at that time could access his timber for his own use. He had put up a fence at that time but over time vandals had cut the fence to make their trespass easier. Moral of the story, tell trespassers to vacate immediately and maintain your fences.
Could be dangerous trying to steal other people’s property, more than one kind of law to settle property disputes.
In California it is 5 continuous years of being on or in the property treating it as your primary residence or maintaining it - and 5 years of paying the property taxes.
How do you pay property tax on it
@@wertiaaudit5746 The tax collector will accept money from anyone!!!
Adverse possession is far more than gaining pieces of a lawn from a misplaced fence. Entire parcels of land, including already present structures, can be transferred through the practice. In theory, a person could obtain a mansion as long as the requirements are met.
The only thing that is different is that in order to prove actual possession, you have to show you used the property in the manner that it should be used (Example: living in a residence you are intending to claim).
Also, what it means to be “Hostile” can change depending on jurisdictions. Some actually require intent to obtain the property via adverse possession in order for the statutory period to even start.
My fence encroaches on another piece of land I own. I'm stealing my own property.
Sue yoursellf - You can't lose ;)
@@zippy0036 Can't win either.
Actually, he would lose and the court system would win (due to all of the court costs)!
☝🤣
I just looked up what the amount of time it is for here in Maryland. It is 20 years.
So after these 15 years or so, can the city come after the new possessor for back taxes?
In Commafornia you bet.
Not if the original owner has been paying the taxes on the entire property that entire time.
My neighbor put up a fence 8 feet on his side of the property line. We've mowed it for years. The guy has been unseen for about a decade. Can I claim it?
A lot of people misunderstand this, really is just a way of making it easier to know where the property lines are based on who's been using the property. It's very common when you have property that's never been surveyed.
Wouldn't the fact I paid the taxes for those 15 years be an affirmative argument against continuous use? Next issue is survey and title company?
I have a question about protection of ownership. I recently purchased property that butts up on two sides to a neighbor. I had the land surveyed and noticed the neighbor has been mowing 20 feet onto my recently purchased property. The previous owner let the neighbor mow this section to keep the bugs down and they are aware they are mowing property that is not theirs. They have acknowledged verbally to me that the property is not theirs, but is there a document we can written up to protect my property ownership? I am also in Michigan
Just mowing the property isn't going to give them any powers, especially since both parties have acknowledged who owns it. Essentially, they aren't acting as though they own it, they are just willingly cutting it.
Can say they took care of it
Tell them you will mow now
@@tomhenry897 Nope, doesn't apply even if they decide to keep taking care of it. They were made aware that they don't own it. Both parties know the facts.
So how would you go about and remove a small section of your land from your tax bill. Or do you have to keep paying the taxes for the thief also?
It would seem you'd have to get an assessment.
I learn so much watching your videos, thanks.
#1- Never trust a realtor. #2- Never trust a real estate platt map (they are as close as hand grenades). #3- Always get a registered survey when buying real estate. Believe me!
The survey is just a piece of paper. I have a survey but I can't find anyone to stake it before I put up the fence. I have so many corners those numbers are worse than calculus, I can't figure it out myself.
@@evelgreytarot8401 Surveyors do this. I just had it done and I live in an area where there is a lot of business for surveyors from developers. You want a surveyor to stake it, not someone who claims knowledge. Unless you live in a very isolated area, there is a surveyor who will mark it. I paid $600 for a surveyor to stake my boundary line which had three corners and was 460 feet in length.
this post is 100% true. i suspect the poster is a surveyor. realtors dont know squat about surveying. in Wisconsin, it is law that when performing a survey, you MUST monument the property corners if they are missing. it should have been staked.
I ran into this law when I purchased my home. I found out that my house egressed over the property line by 6 inches. The lot next to me was an "out lot" that was put aside by the developer of the area for all neighbor mutual access. After several years of trying to work out a deal. The Neighborhood association fought me on this. As I lived on a lake, they thought I wanted what they felt was theirs. I had asked for only enough property that I would fit back within the Township's guidelines, about 5.5 feet. As the house was almost 100 years old, I felt that I had a good chance at Adverse possession. I had offered to pay the current market price for the property initially. Then they dragged it through the court. In the process, they had to sell another lakefront property that the association had control. All said and done, I took the property I needed and my attorney told me I could have taken the entire lot, as both I and the previous owners had used it for almost 40 years. In hind site, I should have taken the entire lot. As there was always tension and vandalism since I took possession. I woke up one night about 1 AM to find some bozo backing his boat into the lake, right on to my dock. Such fun.
@@DumbledoreMcCracken Thank you, I try. Believe me. I have only discussed a small portion of what had occurred. I would wake up in the morning to have people staring into my window, as the fence was only 5 feet from my house. I came home one evening of the 4th of Jully to find someone(s) had partied in my yard and used my beach. The worst part is they left all their beer can, firework debris and other garbage in my yard. Another day, I came home to find one of my 50-foot tall white pines cut down. There were all kinds of problems from those &@%^%^. You get the idea.
You should still be able to take it since it sounds like you are still maintaining it ..
tge neighbor to the left of my mothers house has a fence right up against the property line and would cross it to cut down her trees, she protested and he said "well weve always taken these trees before you were here", my mom went to the records office, found the proerty line was exactly where the neighbors fence was and planted a row of trees up against that, making it impossible to cross onto her property by going over the fence. to the right, the neighbor marked off their property line with large rocks, measuered ten yards into their property, and ran another line of large rocks. these neighbors are avid gardeners, as is my mother, they request she dump all her yard waste in this area as they use it for compost, and they let her use as much compost as she likes for her gardening.
I have a question. I live in North Carolina. I moved into my house in 2011. About 2 weeks before we physically moved in, our neighbor put up a fence along our property line. About 3 years later, I checked online property lines and it was clear the fence was built on our property by about 3 feet. I printed this out showing her the distances from the houses. She refused to move the fence unless I had a survey done. I got the survey which was about $350. She then had the fence moved. My question is can I bill her for the cost of the survey? And what is the proper action someone should take when they are in this situation? Thanks!
So what about these cases where you go on vacation, some con artist breaks in, changes your locks and rents your home out to a family. You came back, a strange family is living in your house and you can't make them leave? We have seen this in the news more than once. I can't understand how committing a crime (the con artist) allows someone else to be able to live in a home that was never put on the market? Doesn't seem like justice to me.
What state? Mine has very good Castle Doctrine laws, if an individual in my state comes home and the locks are not working with their key, they can either call a locksmith or break open their own locks to get into their house.
If they see an intruder or intruders in their house and said intruders are acting in a threatening manner and they feel their life is being threatened, they may open fire in legal self defense to stop the threat to their lives, until the threat is neutralized.
Make no mistake, someone who has broken into your house in my state is presumed to be attempting to cause grievous bodily harm, for which deadly force is allowed, and the burden of proof rest solely with the prosecution to prove there was anything but an unlawful entry, and that you knew it was anything but an unlawful entry.
Kentucky courts have some of the strongest rulings supporting a property owners use of deadly force, if you dont want to die dont break into someones property here. Ironically, the counties where it's most enforced are some of the poorest and someones trailer on a mountain side is about the stupidest place to try and rob.
John Dale sounds like possession of stolen goods to me, which does not give any rights to the purchaser.
@@johnfilmore7638 So someone can get away with murder so long as they can convince the person to enter their house first as long as the house owner is smart enough to break a windows or damage the lock first. Seems like a law open to abuse.
@@SurmaSampo everything is tradeoffs, the 1 psycho who will dream up some entrapment of a random person to come to into their home without them there to kill them, is dwarfed by the 10000000 people who break in and rob and rape the victims.
Second, just because people CAN does NOT mean they do, people are people and dont morph into killers even if allowed, I know people with intruders and they couldn't bring themselves to shoot someone even if they have the right.
But the DETERRENCE factor is HUGE! Criminals who dont care about the risk of jail and know the police take forever to come, victimize with impunity. But they know they could get shot and killed if they try to rob and victimize or gang up to beat someone down, well THAT stops them in their tracks because NOONE wants a real risk of dying for a crime, even the toughest criminals.
So how does the mortgage holder figure into this?? For example, someone may have a lot of land, but they're paying a mortgage on it. Then a squatter comes along and takes possession of it. Eventually the squatter may come to own it through adverse possession, but doesn't the lien-holder have any rights or say? Is he just out of luck if the original owner stops paying his mortgage note?
I know someone in Michigan who owns a large ranch in northern Calif. The house and barn have run down to the point where they are no longer usable. But I'm sure some of the adjacent ranchers are using large parts of his property for their cows. The elderly owner is paying the taxes on it and I don't know if he has a mortgage on it or if its free and clear. But if he does have a mortgage, doesn't the lender have any rights to secure the security of his note against adverse possessors? Can a lein-holder foreclose on an adverse possessor? Or can he not because he never had any contract with the squatter to begin with?