Batman Gotham City Chronicles Review
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- #boardgames #review #batman
Kotaku article on Conan - kotaku.com/for...
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BGG Review list - boardgamegeek....
"With great power, comes great energy cost."
-Batman
LOL!
When this matches Shut up and Sit Downs review, there's trouble in river city
Only truly in trouble if we see 76 trombones
It's strange, while I do agree with most of your negatives, me and my brother found the game to be exactly THE batman experience we were looking for... all elements, the theme, the art.. everything works together to make you feel like a superhero or villain and every scenario thus far was super close. So while I do agree the barrier is high (although there are some great how to plays on youtube by now) I find the game so rewarding when I play it and I can fully recommend it to anyone who loves batman and a strategic dice chucker!
This has been my experience as well. The rulebook and lack of player aids are the biggest negatives. The game would've really benefited from a quick start rule book with a single scenario to cover the basic rules, because it really only takes about 5-10 minutes to each the game.
And, once you're playing, the gameplay feels like Batman. And, so far, the scenarios have felt very balanced. It really took a good system from Conan and made a better game from it.
@@VaultBoy13 I agree with the intro scenario and the player aids. At the same time everyone goes straight to BGG even when everything is included in the game to find something better. Everything needed is there for the taking.
The point about taking it to game night on public transport hits me on a deeply personal level.
Man, this is the perfect example of Kickstarter bloat:
- Boiler-plate mechanics made needlessly complicated by a terrible manual
- Visually cluttered mess
- WAY too many miniatures
- More interested in looking photogenic than visually consistent
- A massive price point
- Kickstarter Exclusive (tm)
- A vague promise to do it better the next time they ask for your money
This is the worst part of playing board games in 2019.
The worst part of playing board games in 2019 is something you can easily avoid by just not backing an expensive game on ks and get some retail games instead? Man, board gaming is in a really good place at the moment, huh? 😃
Don't buy it then. The FACT is this game could not happen from this studio via traditional retail. They tried with Conan and the production cost was such that after accounting for the significant discount needing to be given to retail distribution channels resulted in their making NOTHING on every retail sale. It may have even cost them something.
KS allows them to specifically target a market, gain commitment, and deliver directly to that market.
People bitch about the rise of KS only games. The reason we are seeing so many new and inventive games is BECAUSE OF KS.
thank god i let this one pass by ... was on the fence to go all in, but then didn't because i had doubts ... saved me a ton of money
I was about to go all in on both for the current KS ($700+) but luckily there were a couple reviews out. Saved me more money than Geico.
I saw this review even if I'm not interested in this game only because I like what you do, and I think this is one of your best review ever. Keep up the great work!
Ha ha ha! If you just toss this....
*Absolute silence and dread*
Man, the editing on the intro was fantastic!
As always, a really great review, a short overview about how it plays, but mainly about your impression from the different aspects of the game! 😁😁
... I'd like to see you review Joan of Arc. Would this be possible? 😃
"It would be total slamdunk and recommendation if Monolith put as much effort into development as they did into the aesthetics and design of the game".
Thats the genetic birth defect of many kickstarter based game companies. Overproduced and underdeveloped.
KS has turned more and more into a mere marketing tool and a way to sell dysfunctional overproduced games via eye candy and bought previews called reviews (a very bad trend in boardgame journalism; the selling out to companies).
More often than not kickstarter is the reason games are designed much worse than they would be for retail because most important aspect is
turning customers into stretch goal zombies that convolute and suffocate any elegant game by default. Its not about producing the best game anymore and Batman is the perfect example for that.
While I mostly agree with you, some of the best games have come out of kickstarter, Like Gloomhaven. Although I would say that these are the exception and not the rule.
Spot on assessment of the rulebook. After I finally got my copy, I read through the rulebook, twice, and was pretty confused (even as a long-time tabletop gamer). When my buddies and I sat down to play for the first time, we spent a lot of time on the first couple of turns. After we'd played through those turns, we had the mechanics down pretty well, aside from a few rules details, and we ripped through the last 4 turns or so in short order.
My only real complaint with the game is the lack of use for so many of the characters. If you only have the core game, there are lots of villains that are only used in one of the scenarios included with the game. To actually use all that gorgeous plastic you bought, you have to design your own scenarios. While this may be a lot of fun for people who run or play RPGs, I don't imagine your average board game player really wants to do that.
I had this game for a while and I was kind of suprised that a Batman game...didn't want us to fight a lot. Every time the villain won he did so by entangling the heroes in unnecessary fights. So for the heroes to win they need to try to evade combat...which is odd because that really is the most fun part of the game. It was such an odd experience...
Spot on and fair review. That said, I own the game and love it. And yes, I spent a lot of time on the rule book and BGG cheat-sheets to make the game play smoothly.
Oh! I have been watching your tweets / updates all week - can’t wait to watch your take on this game - and decide if I should back the reprinting! You will either cost me or save me so much money!
Not the review i expexted. But u are my favourite reviewer now.
When I received it in the mail, I brought the whole thing to my son’s house to open it together. I had all I could to carry all of it, at once. It’s a beast. I do love it, though. Love the video.
I was so hesitant about backing this - no regrets looking back. Glad I didn't cough up the cash.
Too bad, it is phenomenal.
all you hear back is grotesque laughter... love you efka! do more reviews if possible!! always to the point and always fun to watch
My wife and I have been playing this game a few times a week and absolutely love it. Yes, the rule book sucks but the game is easy, the lack of player aid is possibly the worst aspect of this game. Gameplay is awesome, all missions are very different and heroes are resasonably uniques.
Go to BoardGameGeek. Everything you could ever want is there.
You are spot on with the rule book. I was so livid after receiving my $320 game. Because I was an idiot and bought all the expansions. Spending that kind of money I was expecting a rule book that explained how to set the game up. Then they put out a horrible video that was supposed to explain all that. But between the guys horrible accent and the fact he still left things uncovered. It was a waste of time. Finally I found a guy who put out a game a really detailed setup explanation. So yeah I will never buy another monolith game. Now don't get me wrong. Once we finally learned how to play the game it's fun. But the fact it took 2 weeks to figure out the rule book to be able to play a game. Just totally ruined my impression with monolith games.
I can't believe how bad this rulebook is. After all the shit they took for Conan's rulebook, you would have thought they would have gotten it right this time. The rulebook for Mythic Battles: Pantheon is not great, but it's still orders of magnitude better than this one.
That review was Wild... Innocent... and E Street Shufflin'! Between this and Pet Sounds, I'm loving the heck out of your vinyl collection.
Still find it funny so many people had so much trouble with the Conan rulebooks...haven't got Batman because i prefer the Conan setting and it is currently my favourite board game...it was one of the smoothest teaching game i have ever taught...
The rules for both games aren't that complicated. It's a game that one person can easily teach if they know the rules. But, learning from the rulebooks is more work than it really should be.
@@VaultBoy13 hmm fair enough i found the Conan ones to be straight forward, learned it from the beta rules and to be fair there were some traslation issue after the beta rules so that may have been why my experience was different to others.
they went with 'the river' again, huh? you'd think they could tailor it to the theme better and call it something more fitting. but what? oh, i dunno, maybe 'the rogues gallery'!
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 sure, but for something with so much theme to it youd think theyd try to stick with it.
Isn't it a poker term?
Came for the cape and cowl, stayed for the intermission. 😁
I think that part of this game’s appeal comes from Monolith’s great community. There are already plenty of fan made player aids to help people through their first missions, and if Conan is any indicator, there will be plenty of diverse scenarios in the coming months.
Great mechanics, superbe production, a ton of content and massive support from the community.
The components are enough for an array of approaches, so I’m looking forward to where this game goes next.
Superb review. You picked all the parts of the game that we also thought of to be a bit weird in a modern game. No player aids included in the base game was one of them.
The first thing anyone does in this day and age is got to BGG to find better aids than included in any game.
@@kennethfharkin But this shouldn't be necessary. Publishers should think about including fewer miniatures and include more helpful components to their games.
@@sebastiang.5032 I rarely use any guide sheets from the publisher anymore. Almost always what is available on BGG or EOG is far superior anyway.
This isn't a game someone is picking up off a shelf on a whim. You needed to actively seek this game out then had a year to prepare. The audience for this game KNEW what was coming.
So would I rather have a couple hand out sheets from the publisher which I would probably supplement or replace with those from BGG or would I prefer to have more content such as cards, tokens, and figures? I'll go for the later for a game like this any time.
Now if I walk into a FLGS and buy a game off the shelf I expect to have more comprehensive items included, sadly that is rarely the case anymore it seems. At the minimum I am making copies of a manual's back page as a handout anyway.
I will concede Monolith has a significant weakness when it comes to composing their rules in an easy to understand format for English speakers. They do have people who speak excellent English, worlds beyond my miserable French. That said they MUST start working with native English speakers on their rule books and would be advised throw in some guide sheets. That said the wealth of information on UA-cam and BGG more than makes up for that weakness as anyone getting this game is far more invested in it than a casual purchaser.
You are fantastic narrator, sir.
I have Conan and is super fun. It´s my favorite game. I just have the retail version and I was jealous of those who got the Kickstarter version, but Monolith campaigns are super expensive to me. Their shipping to Mexico is really expensive. Just the shipping was more expensive than buying the retail version of Conan. That stopped me from buying the Batman game.
I heard Batman was going to be an improved version of their gameplay, but actually, from the reviews I have watched, it looks like they ruined it. It's more limited. You have a limit to everything, from the number of defense cubes you can use, the re-rolls, extra movements for the Overlord, etc. Characters cannot even die. In Conan, you have to be careful not to die. But then, there is the time limit and then you have to sacrifice so the heroes can triumph. And sometimes, your death was the main reason the heroes won, because your death bring rage into the heroes and they were able to restore more energy. Conan is more violent, enemies die. Batman doesn't kill. I think that by trying to make a better game, they turn it into a complex thing that is good for some people, but not for me.
Hopefully, there will be more of Conan, but I hope it's not exclusive for Kickstarter, because that model doesn't work for me. I bought my Conan copy on Amazon, and to me the shipping was free. I'm buying the expansions and I'm glad I didn't support Batman campaign. I would have felt disappointed by buying all that plastic. Like I said before, this game is not for me. All those who buy it and love it, is time for you to have fun creating your own scenarios. I think that is the best part of Monolith games. And even if Conan campaign was supposed to have an official scenario editor app that never came out, I heard that they are going to actually do it for this game.
As usual enjoyed your jaunt through another card board landscape while drinking my english breakfast. But alas fear fewer review copies will be coming your way. Cheers from the states.
Another great review! Your videos just keep getting better in both content and quality! Loved the moderate fun bit 😂
Snarfdk really though, all the best games have arcs. It’s like saying Flamme Rouge isn’t great because you can’t always go at 80km/h lol
@@ZabbaXXL The thing is Flamme Rouge is fun at low speeds, trying to figure out where other players are going to move (and your other bikelist) and play cards accordingly. If anything I'd argue the slow part is the most fun, and the final sprint is the culmination of your prior decisions. Now, I've not played Gotham City Chronicles, so I don't know how it compares, but certainly the complaint was that the slow parts weren't engaging, not that it had a mix of slow and fast parts to the game.
SheezyBites sure! I just think that, personally, after playing the game I see the slow phases as careful consideration and planning on when to go all in on your action. Which is then a massive, exciting gamble.
@@ZabbaXXL I can't comment on how the slow parts are for more than 2-player. But, the game works really well as a 2-player game since having one hero rest generally means you have other heroes you can activate.
More players means everyone just switching between their actions without a proper turn order, extremely cinematic to a level I have never experienced in a board game before.
"Die Macher" is coming to kickstarter. Would love if you could review it! It's from 1986! and apparently good enough to get a reprint and I guess a revamp.
A good and fair review, although I think I enjoy it more than you do. Your comments on the usability are spot on though.
Great review! Totally agree on the rule book, its terrible and learning the game is more difficult than it needs to be. There are some updated rule sheets you can download and a how to play video that made learning the game a lot easier but its not ideal to have to go to the internet to learn how to play your new game.
However once we learned how to play the game is great! Its much more tactical that i expected, which does increase the learning curve (especially when learning what all the gadgets do) but after 2 play-throughs it all started to click and the games theme and atmosphere really shines.
If you are a big batman fan over coming the initial hurdles of learning the game is defiantly worth it, but I can see why this game isn't for everyone.
Been playing this a month or two now, and love it. Painted it and eager for more...
Truely needs more maps though.
Current count is 8, right? Or did you not get the expansions?
Regarding the dissonance of the art style between board and character sheets - I played a demo copy in Essen 2017 and the Batman characters back then seemed to be modeled along the lines of The Dark Knight series rather than the colorful comic book version in the final product. The Dark Knight Batman also fits better with the heroes getting exhausted as the game goes on mechanic.
I’m not sure why they shifted. I suspect that there was some license issue that forced a change of character design and there just wasn’t time to update the boards too.
I heard that it was backer requests; due to the number of minis, people were having trouble matching the command boards and tiles to the right character. They pushed for the art to match the minis.
Just another example of why listening to your backers can often be a bad idea...
@@derekgarcia3069 I think it's probably right to make the change if that is the reason, but it should never have had that much bloat to begin with if it made the game nigh unplayable like that. The kitchen sink approach that works so well on Kickstarter rarely makes a good game, and this is just a clear example of how it has left the publisher with two problem created by each other's fix.
"What rhymes with swooping?" That made me chuckle for at least 20 seconds. Keep up the rhymes!
Not sure why companies can't get rule book right.
Because it is hard. They went for a flowchart approach so that all the skills have a precise timing without ambiguity.
Because game designers aren't technical writers, technical writers are not graphic designers... Game Designers shouldn't be writing manuals, but most game companies are literally just the designer, and maybe one other person. So they do everything.
I couldn’t agree with you more! I spent over a week slowly reading the rule book.
Was exhausted to even give this game a try....
Then, I decided to play the 1st scenario by myself just to wrap my head around it which nearly took me 3hrs to get thru.
After all this, YES! I love this game. I’m ready to teach the game, and I’m sure those will benefit from a better experience then I first had 😉 cheers
Oh and I only purchased the Core game
You guys make such enjoyable videos, I find myself watching reviews for games I have zero interest in! haha
Great points and very valid issues.
The one thing I would point out that was incorrect was talking about looking up the icons while someone also needs to look at the map layout. They are in the back of different books (maps are in the scenario book, icons in the players book) so it should not conflict.
As far as the icons... Is there seriously ANYBODY out there who would purchase a deep specialty game like this who would not go the BoardGameGeek to find the best cheat sheets? There were already summary sheets for every hero listing the icons and what they mean before the game hit my door. I had them printed out on 4x5 sheets before I even opened the wrapping on the game.
@@kennethfharkin but for the price it would be included. I agree that it's a small issue but I also doubt everyone who got the game even knows what bgg is.
@@SteoanK I seriously doubt that. BGG is the global go to spot for board games and this game is not something you find on a retailer's shelf. This is a game which must be sought out.
If you can find this game on KS then you have already been to BGG or really should have.
@@kennethfharkin absolutely not the case. You can tell from the amount of people who are on the bgg Facebook group but have no idea what bgg even is.
@@kennethfharkin The game was advertised heavily on social media. There's likely many people who bought the game that don't know and don't care what BGG is. Additionally, gamers shouldn't be reliant on the BGG community to provide player aids for a game that needs them. The ones posted on KS by Monolith should've been in the box.
You are doing great videos man! And your better half too! Good job peeps!
It’s kinda sad for me because I don’t have the money to buy this amazing game and as a long time Batman fan it is even more sad for me.
Is there shark repellent? There had better be shark repellent!
The Intermission was great! XD
Funny, EVERYTHING you said here I did also on BGG. I was crucified by the community AND the developers and given a harsh warning from BGG for instigating flame wars and being a troll. Thanks for vindicating me.
BGG has the most biased and power tripping mods ever. If you don't 100% agree positively with a thread creator, your odds of being warned/suspended are ridiculously high
@@jasonjanisewski78 yeah, I saw that first hand.
Seems like the kind of game I'd love to try out at a game night or at a friends house but wouldn't want to buy, so hopefully I can convince someone else to buy it!
I just found your channel, and while it is definitely awesome (and even addicted) -
I do wonder why haven't you put all the final scores in your BGG's user games collection table as a final rating for each game..(?)
(please do it :))
Wish you had talked about the villains a bit more, I think they're quite fun. Totally agree about usability issues and rules; sat on this for a month before it got played.
Disarm a hack or bomb a computer FTW.
"What rhythms with swooping? Oh no..." I'm dying, hahahaha
ass-whooping!
I play a lot of complex board games. This game exhausts me trying to learn it.
The terrain is way too dark and muddled, and the character boards are too childish and cartoony. Who would allow those two themes in one game? Ewww. This is made for those who like to collect, but don't play board games.
Maybe because I've been playing 40k for years the poorly written and hidden rules felt very much like home for me. I watched a lot of play videos and sat and studied the bejesus out of the rules. They definitely needed some trimming on rules, clear set up, and an AID FOR THE SYMBOLS. Assuming round 2 helps some of these we may have a great on our hands. Then again, I went all in early so I feel a small since of ownership thanks to my ridiculous investment.
So you hate Heroes of Land Air and Sea because it's "Kickstarter Bloat". But then you pretty much praise this KING of Kickstarter Bloat!?! :P :P :P :P
Just got partway into the video and I find it strange why you pointed out Catwoman when you were discussing how the publisher almost learned from their "Depiction of Women" Controversy. Catwoman wears a skintight one piece for her job as a thief. Yes the character is sexualized but that's also who she is and she embraces it. There is a reason to her appearance. With Conan, the game just decided to have women in the game for the sole purpose of serving the men. Granted I haven't played the game yet but those are my thoughts on that particular moment at 4:12.
Catwoman isn't a real person.
@@mahna_mahna I'm not sure what you mean by that. Neither are any of the Conan characters.
@@nufsioohay
She can't own her sexuality because she is a non-entity.
While it is true she doesn't have the same problems as Conan's women (the complete lack of agency), she does perpetuate a stereotype that sexual women are dangerous; a stereotype that gets women killed.
Look, I like sexy people too, but a reviewer can't ignore an issue that will be extremely off-putting to half the audience. If you're fine with catwoman being an example of a dangerous stereotype, and are significantly cognoscente of the fact to enjoy it for what it is, a kink that should not reflect your outlook on women in reality, then knock yourself out (women are often forced to do this by popular media already). There's nothing wrong with enjoying problematic media, but you should look at the media you enjoy critically and understand what it's saying.
Considering the models are based on existing comic book art and have to be approved by DC, they did a pretty good job. Batgirl, Huntress, Orphan, Batwoman, Renee Montoya, Blue Bird, Oracle, and Julia Pennyworth offer a fair amount of diversity in female characters.
I fail to see an issue with 3 "sexier" characters - Catwoman (x2), Black Canary, and Katana - when there's 8 other female heroes offering a variety of representation. I get that there are going to take issue even if it was 1 out of 100. But, there's a point where concerns about depictions of women, turns into slut-shaming. Diversity is what we should be aiming for, not a complete removal.
Spot on review Efka, for me this line sums up the experience 'Slam Dunk, if Monolith put as much effort into the development of the game as they did the asthectics'.
This game has so much potential.
"The first guardian of fun" This is going to become a new saying of mine for every rulebook.
Efka, how do you feel about Monolith putting out official player aids and reference sheets on their website? Presumably these would be in the second Kickstarter. Does that change your opinion on use-ability? I admit I’m hugely intrigued by this, but between this and SUSD’s podcast today I’ve stepped to the edge of the hype train and am considering if I can jump off or not.
So glad I didn't back this
Joost Nauw cool story bro
Great review, and best editing i have seen in an NPI to date. Cheers!
I really don't care how good the game is when you play it. If it takes as long to set up as the actual gameplay, I'm out.
I played this once as a local gamer friend bought it. The resting thing really irks me more than anything. I'm in the middle of a firefight, villains are everywhere, there's a bomb or some other imminent danger, and I'm pausing for a quick break?
3D luck cubes! 😂
This game is superb as it is
The "river" mechanism is great but the die-based combat is a big turn-off.
Have played 4 Scenarios yesterday and love the energry and river system BUT the game is waaaay to tigth in terms of gamelength and energy management for this amount of lucky dice rolling. If you dnot have perfect dice rolls and the optimal heroes/items you wont win. And this fact makes all the joyces the game offers obsolet. Ist fun when the dice works but its a chore when not...
If the concern is balance, you can always add an extra turn or start the heroes with a little more stamina.
In summary: too much blabla rulebook, use cubes either for attack or defense, if you attack roll the dice lol, some people complain the gameplay is too shallow and gets boring and are probably right. Game is too big and too expensive and it is too confusing with all the symbols.
Great review once again.
Another great video!
I think this game worked better as a Conan game.
You then missed all the people bitching about how Conan was really only about Conan with other characters being irrelevant, the lack of ability to swap out heroes, and that the rule books were not big enough.
I love Conan. Conan is far more an Axe to the Face type of game. Batman the objectives take a far greater level of importance over just beating the crap out of villains. Joker never cared if Batman beat him up so long as the hostages died, building exploded, etc. I really love that Batman causes more focus to be placed on objectives other than beating people to pulp.
@@kennethfharkin I don't really care about other people complaining about rulebooks. There is always someone complaining about the rulebook of every game in existence. I did not have a single problem with it to understand the rules amd my understanding of them is all i need.
And i don't really care that people complained that a Conan game was all about... gasp... Conan. What a shock! Who would've thought?
And then characters were not fixed for missions. The scenarios mention a "recommended" setup, meaning you could use wjatever character you wanted, with whatever weapons you wanted. It's your choice of pick. It makes the missions easier or harder? Yep... how about that? You can adjust difficulty of every scenario however you saw fit... and yet people complained about balance that some scenarios were too easy or too hard... yet even with a clear mention on every scenario that they have varying difficulty levels.
I really stopped caring about the complaints of others a long time ago. I only care about my own enjoyment of a game.
And i still think it still works better as a system in a fantasy setting than a modern one with superheroes.
Have fun at the expo... knightmare is great, went a couple year ago... can't make it this year, play one for me :).
Many of these comments are excellent examples of the sunken cost fallacy.
Ready for you to hate on another AAA bloated game for 20 mins
Does Kotaku EVER publish a positive article? Everytime I hear about Kotaku, it's an article about how something other people created is not good enough.
Great review
1:58 Did you just do a Tom Vasel Component Drop?
Season 3 kickstarter is on now and they are asking for backers to rebuy the rulebook and player aids for 25€(+ 21%VAT and shipping cost) They are offering the digital rulebook free but locking stretchgoals behind rebuying the rulebook and a fanmade solo mode that they haven't the confidence to showcase. Not impressed to say the least
I see!
A lot of plastic for a lot of money.....
Sounds fair, doesn't it?
Who cares about Kotaku...
TheYgeth
Seriously, I would be embarrassed to link anything from them.
GO DJ...LOL...LOL
hula hooping
Kotaku?! Wahahahahaha!!!!
Nailed it!!
waiting for BGG fanboys to defend this mess
Oh well, seems to be a very shallow game with just a lot of variable stuff thrown into it. And there's no thematic feel either, just a huge amount of Batman-related stuff, but no more theme than a Batman-themed deck of regular playing cards.
This is definitely not the Expanded-Christopher-Nolan-in-a-box I was hoping for. More like.. Michael Bay.
Kristo Vaher it’s like Zak Snyder
So they over complicated Conan and gave him a cape. It would be nice if they made a different game rather than reskin one
"Whereas most games have about 10 symbols... BATMAN HAS... 51"!!! WHAHAHAHAHA I DROPPED ON MY ASS :D
In other words, It's shite.