Hi Chris, I have been working in technology since 1986. I got my bachelor’s degree in 1996, in electrical engineering. As you might imagine, I make a decent living. I buy the best tool, I can buy and I purchase a lot of Woodpeckers tools. When this item came out from Woodpecker, I had already been admiring your product and had been considering buying one. I could have bought the Woodpecker model, but I bought yours. I like your product, your integrity, the quality of your work and your enthusiasm. I know for sure, I got the better product.
Yep, the only people people who benefit from patents are large corporations who build up "patent walls". They do virtually nothing to protect solo inventors
What a great video. For those of us that work with wood and make things to sell your story is an inspiration for us and your honesty and integrity a role model for all.. BTW my friend, I do not care what you are doing or how you are doing it; if you are making something with and from wood, you ARE a woodworker.
I worked as an engineer for 35 years. During that time I was involved either individually or in a group in 10 patents. In 2005 it was running about $75,000 for the initial patent filing. The intial filing included items such as; the initial patent research to find similar patents, writing the patent, drawings, application filing. Our company had an intellectual property group which included patent attorneys, paralegals, and support staff. Once the intellectual property group determined the item could be patented they hired outside patent attorneys to prepare the patent application. Then come the questions and challenges from the patent office. The costs at this point start mounting as each and ever challenge must be answered. On one patent I adressed the same point over and over again before the issue was resolved. On another patent realizing the patent office was not going to be convinced the company decided that we were not going to prevail and withdrew the application. On another application the patent office approved the patent for the equipment and recommended we file a second application for the process. And, don't forget that you have to file separately for foreign patents. This adds to the costs. I believe your approach is logical. However, I would advise you to consult your legal counsel to properly document your design and product. If someone does patent a similar design you don't want to find them seeking an infringement when they receive a patent. Good luck!
@Milk Manson As far as I know "Patent Pending" does not exist. Yes, you can, theoretically, spend far less on obtaining a patent. The question becomes, how much time and effort are you willing to spend? I was extremely frustrated with a patent examiner that essentially kept asking the same question over and over. The question was asked and answered. But, the examiner would change a word or two and would send it back. It's surprising how complex the patent language is, along with the drawings. Not all patents require drawings. But, when required they need to be intertwined with the language. As for the language, words that were common vocabulary for engineers, could not be used in the patent application.
@@robertlevine2152 Provisional is the word I was looking for, but either way I'm not exactly surprised that, as far as red tape goes, the patent office is some of the reddest. Thanks for the reply.
I have 10 patents myself on various technology inventions from my previous corporate career. If you have no interest in patenting it and don’t want to worry about someone else coming after you with a possible infringement lawsuit, you can share it with the public. That could be a video about the product on a public forum like UA-cam, selling the design files, or even publishing documentation about how to make it on a public forum. For more specifics on the best way to protect yourself and your amazing company, I would recommend having a short consultation with an IP lawyer. I also purchased one of your sander holders! 🥰. Keep up the great work!!!
The way you handle challenges/adversities and pivot so seemingly effortlessly is so inspiring. You’re a class act! Many other UA-cam makers/ woodworkers/ “influencers” could learn a thing or 2…
Chris, I am a wood turner and haven’t used my palm sander more than twice in the last 4 years. But, there is a Glimpse inside sander holder on my work bench. I was telling my wife the story and she said “order one!” So I did! Keep up the great work! Also, she wants to buy a phone stand when you make more!
I love your comment about patents being like doorlocks! I ran into the same thing with my tool that I invented - people expected me to patent it, but I didn't... I just maked it for as long as possible without competition, and enjoy what I could do. Buying a patent allows you the ability to pay court fees, not real protection. Great video!
I think the reason why most of their tools are so expensive is that they're tools that are really precise. This Sander holder just holds the tool it doesn't need to measure anything.
The reason it´s so expensive is because they pay a lot for merchandise and they use a different form of psychology. The red and the high price makes a lot of people think that these tools are better than the rest. Yes, they are precise but so are a lot of other products, especially from Europe, for less than half the price.
Mate this is the first time ive come across your channel and I already have a lot of respect for you and your perspective on life and this world. Its wisdom on your part to take the stance you have in order to put the ones you love first rather than money You are a wonderful creative person that lives outside the box using the tools of this world but not falling pray to the traps that it has waiting for those that have they priorities inverted.
This is interesting. No doubt, more than a few people have thought of this idea and probably made a similar shop jig. Personally, I came up with my own RO sanding jig design and a sketch of it about 12 years ago. When I got the Woodpecker email I thought, cool, someone finally created this thing that me and others have been tinkering with for years! I still have the wooden laminated clamp portion of the jig. However, my old sander broke several years ago so now the jig piece is a conversation piece sitting on my desk at work.
we are woodworkers----get a WOODEN random orbit sander holder--------keep going Chris, you have a great channel and you are a terrific person thanx rick
Chris!! I use the stand often! It has been a great way to sand those small parts! Also I do love supporting small business vs the big guys if possible. Thanks again for the great invention!!
I brought my product out 20 years ago and almost immediately it was copied by several of my so-called competitors. To this day it still is - even moreso now that the room is full of wannabes. We still outsell and out perform all of them. In fact, we get a TON of business because of their half-assed attempt at copying our line. I feel your pain brother.
Bro!! This is by far one of the best, most honest, down to earth speaking the truth about life and the UA-cam business. I’ve never heard anybody say how much they make through UA-cam or the pitfalls. I’ve been considering opening a youtube account and doing something but have not had any info on it whatsoever. You keep up the good work Chris and I will definitely be following you in the future!!!
GREAT GREAT GREAT video and outlook. I’ve been in high tech for 30+ years and experienced the patent infringement and technology leapfrogging issues for decades. You’re correct - IP is only worth something if you defend it and that can be costly, so just keep developing good products at a fair price and find your market niche where you can sustain a lead and make a living. You have to give credit to competitors when it’s warranted and you have to be able to differentiate your own stuff all the time. People respect that and you can look yourself in the mirror every morning. Well done, my friend.
Hi Chris, I saw your first video when you had started pouring the slab for you shop. I could only dream about having that much space. I just wanted to say that now that I’m retired I get to have the shop I want, albeit an oversized garage, but I’m going to look to lay it out and in corporate many features of yours. I want to do it all, metal, wood, whatever rolls through the doors. Keep up the good fight!
Nothing but love, brother. You’re doing what you need to do, and you’ve got your chin up. I am amazed. I know this is maddening, and you’re being gracious.
Simply put, you freakin rock! Love your positivity, honesty, and your outlook. You keep being you and we (your subscribers, followers, etc) will follow.
I too bought one and received it recently. It is nice but, as another comment notes, it is not a precision tool. It is very convenient and well designed for use with different makers’ sanders, but it isn’t a domino. In fact, it is so basic it could have sold for $55 and WP would have still made a decent profit. Frankly, given that WP sells many of these products to wealthy hobbyists, I am surprised they didn’t charge $150 a pop. I probably would have paid it! 😅 One more thing, the WP product can be placed upright to sand at 90 degrees and used in combo with a small platform to allow vertical sanding. That is pretty unique.
One reason I love your channel is because of your integrity! You are a true hero in my book. No matter what, you stay true to yourself and take care of your family. Hope they are doing well.
Put a handle on it. Not a lock but some type of handle. You don’t want someone else to lock you out of your own product. Heck I don’t want you to get locked out of your product. They may have put the price low initially because if it were really high and you took a case against them then they could be liable for the difference. I truly admire you for not getting consumed with the distraction. And I also recommend you find out if you can be blocked from selling your own product. Keep smiling. It’s the better choice, as you seem to already know. ❤
As an ex-R&D guy who has commercialized over $1B in innovative medical devices, you are absolutely correct that a patent is likely not worth the expense. Very small market product. And correct, I can almost always work around patent claims. Screw Woodpecker though.
I just got mine for the fathers day sale. Very happy I would rather have yours than the metal one. I wish you had a video on how you assemble this or a paper copy of the layout. I have bought a bunch of yourself and have to say you never disappoint. Great products.
Reason why its on the cheaper side is because its stamped steel without precision. Reason why rulers and other stuff is expensive is because of extra steps needed to make it precision tool. Milling, lapping, flattening etc. Requires a lot more machinery and operators to run. These stands are probably plasma cut, debured and sent off to anodizing if its not done in house. a lot simpler to produce. They are starting to branch out into "affordable line of tools" like new miter sled they just released which costs a lot less then autoscale one.
Totally agree about the Precision process being more expensive. But there’s a handful of us small guys in the Maycott community who are putting products to market and we all can definitely feel that we’re having an impact on them coming out with a line of less expensive tools. In this situation, we all win. There’s a space for everything and I am honored to be in that space.
@@AGlimpseInside of course. Also has to do with economy too. But they have to be careful not to dilute the brand. Let’s see how long it would take for hooked on wood to do a review of the sander holder, if you get my drift lol
The precision process is automated now. One operator, throw in a billet, hit a button, and a perfect precision blank pops out. Hook a hundred of them on a rack, dip in an anodizing tank, again one, maybe two, operator/operators. Pop each one in a fixture to QA each one and apply the markings, probably several people doing this task simultaneously capable of completing a hundred+ each every day. They’re producing aluminum tools, not SpaceX components.
Much respect to you this is the first video I've watched of yours. Definitely a classy and great way of handling thus situation. Now invent your next money maker
I was hoping I would see my comment on here. I def said to go buy one from you instead on one of their ads lol. Keep it goin! You must be doing something right if Woodpeckers wants to grab product ideas from you! You have such an amazing attitude and it's infectious. Keep makin.
It is easy to purchase from you, always love to support a small business like yours. I am getting ready to purchase a few more items and I am looking forward to it!!!
I have been watching your channel for many years. It was recommended by one of your other UA-cam woodworkers. (you know who). I watch for inspiration for your devotion to your family and your Passion for life. " Make Life Better". I have looked at Woodpeckers tool as any man looks thru the window of a Ferrari dealership. Love to have one but can't afford it for my daily ride. Wish you More success in your life.
You rock brother! I can guarantee that once I upgrade my sander to one I can use an upside down mount, I will buy yours without question. Just like I did when I ordered your 90 degree clamping bracket. I believe that was the first thing I did order from you. Just like you, I like the red tools as well, but when there is an option of supporting an overpriced brand or you, I will support you every time, and I know I’m not the only one. Keep doing what you’re doing!
Their triangle and ruling devices are precision devices, milled to spec, the sanding holder is stamped metal with only slight tolerances built in, so CHEAP! Not crappy, but far cheaper construction. A few die taps, several stamped brackets, probably made from already made L's... yeah, good design and proper choice of materials.
Man Chris. Love our local Publix. To think someone like you could be behind the counter just waiting for a chance to shine. Love this video, have been following you for a while and now a different level of respect.
There is still a woodpecker premium on it. In my opinion, the reason they are expensive is because they are measuring tools and they really pride on accuracy of measurement. To achieve a high degree of accuracy in all environments it might see, they really need to dial down on engineering and on QA which cost a lot of money and i am pretty sure rejects. That drives the cost. For this particular product, you don't need to go overboard with engineering and precision. They still have good profit margins here.
My guess is most of your audience would rather support you!!! Every product (and there are a lot) that I've bought from you are amazing and reasonably priced.
The manufacturing process for that sander mount is a lot easier than their precision stuff. That is laser cut and bent, then powder coated. Their precision tooling is machined for solid aluminum billet, then hard anodized and in most cases printed on. It takes a lot more effort and money to build their squares and stuff...
I suspect the precision squares pricing actually comes from inspection and tight guaranteed tolerance. Folded sheet metal is not a precision operation and doesn't come with a precision final inspection so the pricing is lower. (Whether a tool with 0.001" tolerance is needed in a woodshop is a different question - their pricing is lower than someone like starrett). That said... Your sander holder looks way more functional - especially for a home shop where flexibility wins.
The type of machining and tooling necessary to make the measuring tools have an accuracy standard they can guarantee is much different than some tool that just holds another tool. There is no need for sub millimeter accuracy in the production of that tool. The squares and triangles on the other hand do require not only the accuracy in Mfg but then also a ton of money in quality control to ensure the product meets the promised standards. I do still feel woodpeckers is expensive but I understand where the cost comes from.
The quick release and reinsertion is actually a pretty big deal. That's a huge difference in user experience. I would buy yours, except I have never once wished I could turn my orbital sander upside down.
As a younger man I worked as a plumber, I had my own business with one employee, worked hard and made a good income. Early on in my apprenticeship I realized that I spent a lot of time working with a five foot three legged wood ladder and that it had a flat top, anything placed on it would fall ff when the ladder was moved, which was frequently. I went to a metal fabrication company and had them make a metal box that was five inches tall and the width and length matched the ladder top which I mounted to the top of the ladder. In it I could put water pipe, waste and vent fittings, tools, glues, whatever. I called it my thousand dollar box because it made me much more efficient. I tried to sell the idea to companies I felt could manufacturer it. My best response was from True Value corporate who said it was a great idea but....... I needed to sex it up, add tool holders to the sides etc. That was the end of that but if you like the idea, its yours.
Hey Chris, Keep up the good work. It is you people want to buy from and keeping your relationship with your base is what will keep us coming back. BTW, the Doug references, love ‘em. And the CNC’d sign behind your left shoulder at 9:49 😂 wow, funny, not sure if that was an “Easter egg” but love it!
Great response to adversity! Remember, you need energy and time to continue to build forward. Looking back and investing time and energy in seeking justice will distract from the forward build. Factor in not only legal fees, time, energy, emotion, but the opportunity costs of facing backward and not building forward. Life is economics, we need to spend our energy and time most efficient and effectively. Sometimes this can mean the past just doesn't hold enough value.
coming from engineering and manufacturing background for 10 years, I know what it takes to go from initial concept, to preliminary design, to manufactures, test, revise, test, and release to production. Ive worked on circuit boards, cable design, and sheet metal of all shapes and sizes. Looking at that design from woodpeckers and for that cost point, its about right @70$ In fact, i think it might be a smidge over but its hard to gage labor, design, and shipping cost so I give it to them. On the other hand, I am a new subscriber to your channel! first and foremost great job and Im glad that your sales are offsetting your loss in salary from corporate America. What i don't understand is the products your selling. Are you selling only products that you invented or reselling items that you have seen else where and making them your own?
Very cool video Chris! I just stumbled upon it as I was about to buy WP version. Needless to say you have a new subscriber and in one video already a fan. I will be placing my order from YOU. So ironic I had the same thoughts and couldn't believe WP price, I expected way more. Great job!
Hey man, nice stuff you got going on. After watching youre vid, i just ordered one sandstand you make. I think you have the best attitude someone can have in those situation. Keep it up, stay passionated in what youre doing. May God bless you and bring you closer to Him, not just for a glimpse ;)
Hola! 🖐I haven't been much on YT lately and now I'm trying to get "caught up", I guess I missed a lot!!! Well, you should consider it a badge of honor for a "small guy" such as yourself to call WP (a GIANT) your competitor. Seems to me you are doing GREAT! Take care and have a good one, Adios!👊
It might well have been that your idea had very limited ability to be patented. Achieving a patent is a pretty high bar, and expensive. Their design is almost certainly different enough to skirt any patents you would have been granted anyway. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that patents only keep the honest people out, but that's a different topic. Wish you the best in your business - you're making good stuff and doing a good job connecting with your customers!
Basically I started this new hobby /hobby shop for one reason. That was to make a few things for work that would do two things. First make my job and others easier,ans second show them that they should listen to all employees and all ideas big and small. The combination really can make a difference for both employees and employer. Well, my shop is evolving into so much more. It's a source of hope and letting my dreams evolve. I'm so far away from making a financial impact on my life but I have surpassed my goal of being a hobby for fun. It's made a change in my attitude and overall way of life. I saw that philosophy in how you talked about the woodpecker situation you are having. You could have went ballistic and talked all kind of crap. But you continue to move forward and keep a positive mind set. Anyway, you have a new subscriber and listener. Thanks fir reinforcing my philosophy on facing problems.
Right on. Thank you for your insight brother. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. I’m wishing you all the best in your new endeavor as well. Keep on keeping on and best of luck.
I like your description of patent as a 'locked door'. If you wanted to make a living licensing companies to make your designs, fine. But that's a whole other ball game and I can understand why you wouldn't want to get into that. It's possible that Woodpecker doesn't hold a patent on this and is just taking a chance that you don't have a patent on yours (or research checked that out). So now it's a free design concept floating out there for anyone to copy or customise or develop further. That's a nice thought and you're still doing what you want to be doing. ...on the other hand, it's conceivably possible that Woodpecker MAY have taken out a patent (having established that you haven't). In which case, you could be the only competitor who could get away with producing essentially the same product. They're not going to come after someone who could produce documented evidence that their design was in use before Woodpecker would have taken out the patent. That would immediately void their patent rights.
Hey Chris, just want to say that you have a great channel and I look forward to watching each video you put out. I'm one of those that is of the mindset that your product was copied but I guess we will never know the truth. I have not used my sander upside down really but if I am in need I will purchase your product for sure. Keep up the great work
A patent wouldn't have protected the design here. Theirs is different enough to get around any patent that would have been placed on a Glimpse Inside design. Many companies don't file for patents for this reason alone. They just rely on "first to market" recognition. The one thing you can protect is trade dress. If someone else copies your exact design and/or packaging, you can sue for infringement on that, but that is different than a patent, and much easier to enforce. In this case, even trade dress wouldn't be enforceable, because theirs looks completely different and no consumer would be confused. Good video, and nice content. Keep up the good work.
SawStop has been dining out on their one idea for a quarter century. They’ve blocked several different mechanisms from reaching market by being what is known in the industry as “Litigious as shit”. Their claim is basically anything that prevents a table saw from playing Finder’s Keepers with your fingers is infringement. Patents & trademarks & intellectual property protections have more teeth than, say, the Better Business Bureau - but they’re mercenaries, and damn sure for sell to the highest bidder. Your point of not wanting to exhaust your children’s college fund, or have to sell 4 or 5 of your kidneys, just to fund having 95% of your free time being inside a courtroom is well taken. It might be an option if you already had a legal department, and piles of cash needing burned through - but if you had those problems…. Love your content. Cheers!
Patent? Naaa....seen these before yours. Probably not happening. Now...with that said. You make a nice quality product and while I was considering the WP unit. I think when I am ready to buy I will get yours instead. I like that I can just pop it in and out. And I like supporting small businesses. I am a landscape photographer (just google my name) and while my work is world class quality, not a marketing genius so I am a smaller business as well. Totally affects my buying position when it comes to making a decision like WP or your sander bracket. Expect an order from me soon. Thanks for the genuine honest video. You're a good guy and will enjoy doing business with you. :)
Great video, Chris - those of us who have been here for a good while are proud of what you've accomplished for your family... and we're happy to help in every little bit we can. Keep up the great work! 👊
Chris, I love your honesty!!! You are a true breath of fresh air in a society of whiners. You’re 100% correct about patents too - and I speak from experience on that front.
Capital must be allocated to protect Patents & Business Methods which are unique. If you want to protect your Makers marks, just keep creating useful products as you profess.
I always look forward to using the products I've received from you. Everything I've gotten from you is amazing and extremely useful and high quality. I love my push sticks and tool holders.
It would not matter to me if they gave their product away. I would rather do buisness with a man named Chris than a corporation. I always choose to do business with people, whenever possible. I love what you do Chris, and more importantly, I love how and why you do it. keep on Keep'n on.
Chris, as a business owner for my woodworking, and also owning RAB Tools, a similar business of yours making tools and accessories for woodworkers, I can tell you this: A patent is NOT a DOOR LOCK. It is a closed door. You are correct about the many ways that other people "get around" patents all the time. I have had a multitude of people copy my designs and sell them online, with no repercussions. Without spending many thousands of dollars out of my pocket. It simply isn't worth the expense. All I can do is my own designs, at an extremely higher quality, with excellent customer service, and continue to innovate. Coming up with new tools and accessories and continuing to make life better for my fellow tradespeople, makers, and woodworkers, and gaining their trust, respect, and loyalty is how I chose to combat the problem. Glad to see that you are doing the same! Keep doing your own thing, and we shall all be better off!
Hey Chris love your videos. One comment though. Door locks don’t keep honest people out. Honest people don’t come in uninvited anyway. 🤓 Keep the great videos coming
Whatever, Woodpeckers. I'm buying the wood one. I haven't needed one until very recently, and clamping into a bench clamp was... interesting. Order incoming soon.
Keep on throwing down brother. You do amazing work and my family loves your videos. Corporate America is cut throat. They always have been and they always will be. There is never enough money for those types of people. They will stomp anyone for a extra dollar and I find it very sad. I choose to support the REAL people like yourself. Great video and you'll always have my support.....not them
Hey Chris, just realized UA-cam had unsubscribed me from your channel. Glad your video popped up. I’m all resubscribed now. Just ordered a couple of things from your store. 👍👍👍
Another great video Chris! I've been meaning to order one of your sander mount for some time and just hadn't. When the Woodpecker version came out, I did look at them to compare and hands down would order yours over the Woodpecker all day, everyday. First - Even if your version was more expensive - buying from you supports a family business vs a corporate business. Second, well, I just like your version better... Placing my order now btw... time to get off my back side and get the tools I know I need. Keep the great videos coming!
I had a product that I decided not to patent after talking to other guitar builders...he is absolutely right. Patents have little enforcement overseas, and it isn't just China. India ships in every well made USA piece of equipment that they can and just straight up copies it...I noticed this in gym equipment.
Great content as always, Chris! I probably read at least thirty comments and did not see any references to your most astute observation. Managing expectations is an art! Your attitude of gratitude is off the charts!!! 💯💯
I am still amazed at people falling for the Woodpeckers (or certain Festool Products) trap. Its as if Woodworkers (and makers/creators , aka: CNC'ers) have only seen woodworking brands of tools.
Ideas can’t be patented, only their execution. So you can’t sue someone because he created something based on the same concept. Otherwise you would only have one brand of sander, one brand of saw, etc. Now if Woodpecker did copy your design, then you would have a case, but they only build a tool with a similar goal as yours and have a radically different design. About the price, I don’t know particularly about Woodpecker (I live in France) but the main reason why quality measuring/precision tools are expensive is that the tolerances needed to manufacture them comes at a cost. In the case of this tool it is mainly steel plates bend and welded together and screws to adapt your tool so the tolerances are quite large. This allows them to have zero waste and drive their cost down. That doesn’t means that they didn’t have to cut their margins a bit due to your product 😊
Well I don't know if it is any consolation, but now that Woodpecker has geared up to produce the sander holder, they will get knocked off and will be on Temu for 14.95.
Woodpeckers' prices...check Locks/patents are for honest people...check Expectation management...check ; (also, expectations are often disappointments waiting to happen) "Make Life Better"...check Keep on keepin' on 🙂
Kind of annoying me, but you make pretty good content, so if you ever put a kit together for a belt sander holder, I'll buy one from you. I'll probably buy the orbital sander holder from you at some point, but I don't need it in any upcoming project at the moment.
Pay attention boys and girls! This is how a REAL MAN responds to the adversities of life. No victimhood. No whining.
XD get off his nuts, Greg.
Just clout chasing to sell an inferior product
@yeah right lol so just haterade on your part then
Hi Chris, I have been working in technology since 1986. I got my bachelor’s degree in 1996, in electrical engineering. As you might imagine, I make a decent living. I buy the best tool, I can buy and I purchase a lot of Woodpeckers tools. When this item came out from Woodpecker, I had already been admiring your product and had been considering buying one. I could have bought the Woodpecker model, but I bought yours. I like your product, your integrity, the quality of your work and your enthusiasm. I know for sure, I got the better product.
Thank you so much James. I really appreciate the support is overwhelming. I love this community and again thank you brother.
It's nice to get the original. Think of Leo Fender. Tons of copies but none even come close.
Mmh, but woodpeckers does not have the best tools.
“ Door locks only keep the honest people out” is the perfect analogy.
That's what we say in the cybersecurity world. It's true.
Lockpicking Lawyer has entered the chat.
Windows are what keep honest people honest.
@@alexanderdgray another awesome channel.
Yep, the only people people who benefit from patents are large corporations who build up "patent walls". They do virtually nothing to protect solo inventors
The secret to Woodpeckers' pricing model: red anodizing adds a 200% markup. FYI the SandStand is now $99.
What a great video. For those of us that work with wood and make things to sell your story is an inspiration for us and your honesty and integrity a role model for all.. BTW my friend, I do not care what you are doing or how you are doing it; if you are making something with and from wood, you ARE a woodworker.
I worked as an engineer for 35 years. During that time I was involved either individually or in a group in 10 patents. In 2005 it was running about $75,000 for the initial patent filing. The intial filing included items such as; the initial patent research to find similar patents, writing the patent, drawings, application filing. Our company had an intellectual property group which included patent attorneys, paralegals, and support staff. Once the intellectual property group determined the item could be patented they hired outside patent attorneys to prepare the patent application. Then come the questions and challenges from the patent office. The costs at this point start mounting as each and ever challenge must be answered. On one patent I adressed the same point over and over again before the issue was resolved. On another patent realizing the patent office was not going to be convinced the company decided that we were not going to prevail and withdrew the application. On another application the patent office approved the patent for the equipment and recommended we file a second application for the process.
And, don't forget that you have to file separately for foreign patents. This adds to the costs.
I believe your approach is logical. However, I would advise you to consult your legal counsel to properly document your design and product. If someone does patent a similar design you don't want to find them seeking an infringement when they receive a patent.
Good luck!
Isn't there something before the initial filing available that is much less expensive that lasts for a year? The "patent applied for" thing.
@Milk Manson As far as I know "Patent Pending" does not exist. Yes, you can, theoretically, spend far less on obtaining a patent. The question becomes, how much time and effort are you willing to spend?
I was extremely frustrated with a patent examiner that essentially kept asking the same question over and over. The question was asked and answered. But, the examiner would change a word or two and would send it back.
It's surprising how complex the patent language is, along with the drawings. Not all patents require drawings. But, when required they need to be intertwined with the language. As for the language, words that were common vocabulary for engineers, could not be used in the patent application.
@@robertlevine2152 Provisional is the word I was looking for, but either way I'm not exactly surprised that, as far as red tape goes, the patent office is some of the reddest. Thanks for the reply.
I have 10 patents myself on various technology inventions from my previous corporate career. If you have no interest in patenting it and don’t want to worry about someone else coming after you with a possible infringement lawsuit, you can share it with the public. That could be a video about the product on a public forum like UA-cam, selling the design files, or even publishing documentation about how to make it on a public forum. For more specifics on the best way to protect yourself and your amazing company, I would recommend having a short consultation with an IP lawyer. I also purchased one of your sander holders! 🥰. Keep up the great work!!!
The way you handle challenges/adversities and pivot so seemingly effortlessly is so inspiring. You’re a class act! Many other UA-cam makers/ woodworkers/ “influencers” could learn a thing or 2…
Chris, I am a wood turner and haven’t used my palm sander more than twice in the last 4 years. But, there is a Glimpse inside sander holder on my work bench. I was telling my wife the story and she said “order one!” So I did! Keep up the great work! Also, she wants to buy a phone stand when you make more!
I love your comment about patents being like doorlocks! I ran into the same thing with my tool that I invented - people expected me to patent it, but I didn't... I just maked it for as long as possible without competition, and enjoy what I could do. Buying a patent allows you the ability to pay court fees, not real protection. Great video!
You handled this situation in the most classy way possible! I wish you nothing but the best and will look for ways to support your business!
I think the reason the Woodpeckers stand is relatively inexpensive is because the precision required is much lower than most of their products.
I think the reason why most of their tools are so expensive is that they're tools that are really precise. This Sander holder just holds the tool it doesn't need to measure anything.
The reason it´s so expensive is because they pay a lot for merchandise and they use a different form of psychology. The red and the high price makes a lot of people think that these tools are better than the rest. Yes, they are precise but so are a lot of other products, especially from Europe, for less than half the price.
Your response is admirable. I don't think I could have been as accepting as you are. Your attitude is much much healthier. Be well and do even better!
The fact it's slightly higher than your price says to me they know exactly who you are and what you are selling.
Mate this is the first time ive come across your channel and I already have a lot of respect for you and your perspective on life and this world. Its wisdom on your part to take the stance you have in order to put the ones you love first rather than money You are a wonderful creative person that lives outside the box using the tools of this world but not falling pray to the traps that it has waiting for those that have they priorities inverted.
This is interesting. No doubt, more than a few people have thought of this idea and probably made a similar shop jig. Personally, I came up with my own RO sanding jig design and a sketch of it about 12 years ago. When I got the Woodpecker email I thought, cool, someone finally created this thing that me and others have been tinkering with for years! I still have the wooden laminated clamp portion of the jig. However, my old sander broke several years ago so now the jig piece is a conversation piece sitting on my desk at work.
I love your integrity and honesty Chris! Keep being and doing you!
we are woodworkers----get a WOODEN random orbit sander holder--------keep going Chris, you have a great channel and you are a terrific person thanx rick
Chris!! I use the stand often! It has been a great way to sand those small parts! Also I do love supporting small business vs the big guys if possible. Thanks again for the great invention!!
I brought my product out 20 years ago and almost immediately it was copied by several of my so-called competitors. To this day it still is - even moreso now that the room is full of wannabes. We still outsell and out perform all of them. In fact, we get a TON of business because of their half-assed attempt at copying our line. I feel your pain brother.
Bro!! This is by far one of the best, most honest, down to earth speaking the truth about life and the UA-cam business. I’ve never heard anybody say how much they make through UA-cam or the pitfalls. I’ve been considering opening a youtube account and doing something but have not had any info on it whatsoever. You keep up the good work Chris and I will definitely be following you in the future!!!
GREAT GREAT GREAT video and outlook. I’ve been in high tech for 30+ years and experienced the patent infringement and technology leapfrogging issues for decades. You’re correct - IP is only worth something if you defend it and that can be costly, so just keep developing good products at a fair price and find your market niche where you can sustain a lead and make a living. You have to give credit to competitors when it’s warranted and you have to be able to differentiate your own stuff all the time. People respect that and you can look yourself in the mirror every morning.
Well done, my friend.
Hi Chris, I saw your first video when you had started pouring the slab for you shop. I could only dream about having that much space. I just wanted to say that now that I’m retired I get to have the shop I want, albeit an oversized garage, but I’m going to look to lay it out and in corporate many features of yours. I want to do it all, metal, wood, whatever rolls through the doors. Keep up the good fight!
Nothing but love, brother. You’re doing what you need to do, and you’ve got your chin up. I am amazed. I know this is maddening, and you’re being gracious.
Simply put, you freakin rock! Love your positivity, honesty, and your outlook. You keep being you and we (your subscribers, followers, etc) will follow.
Thank you Mike I really appreciate that buddy. Hope you have a great rest of your weekend man.
I too bought one and received it recently. It is nice but, as another comment notes, it is not a precision tool. It is very convenient and well designed for use with different makers’ sanders, but it isn’t a domino. In fact, it is so basic it could have sold for $55 and WP would have still made a decent profit. Frankly, given that WP sells many of these products to wealthy hobbyists, I am surprised they didn’t charge $150 a pop. I probably would have paid it! 😅
One more thing, the WP product can be placed upright to sand at 90 degrees and used in combo with a small platform to allow vertical sanding. That is pretty unique.
One reason I love your channel is because of your integrity! You are a true hero in my book. No matter what, you stay true to yourself and take care of your family. Hope they are doing well.
Thank you very much Laura. I really appreciate these unbelievably kind words.
Put a handle on it. Not a lock but some type of handle. You don’t want someone else to lock you out of your own product. Heck I don’t want you to get locked out of your product.
They may have put the price low initially because if it were really high and you took a case against them then they could be liable for the difference.
I truly admire you for not getting consumed with the distraction. And I also recommend you find out if you can be blocked from selling your own product.
Keep smiling. It’s the better choice, as you seem to already know.
❤
As an ex-R&D guy who has commercialized over $1B in innovative medical devices, you are absolutely correct that a patent is likely not worth the expense. Very small market product. And correct, I can almost always work around patent claims. Screw Woodpecker though.
I just got mine for the fathers day sale. Very happy I would rather have yours than the metal one. I wish you had a video on how you assemble this or a paper copy of the layout. I have bought a bunch of yourself and have to say you never disappoint. Great products.
Reason why its on the cheaper side is because its stamped steel without precision. Reason why rulers and other stuff is expensive is because of extra steps needed to make it precision tool. Milling, lapping, flattening etc. Requires a lot more machinery and operators to run. These stands are probably plasma cut, debured and sent off to anodizing if its not done in house. a lot simpler to produce. They are starting to branch out into "affordable line of tools" like new miter sled they just released which costs a lot less then autoscale one.
Totally agree about the Precision process being more expensive. But there’s a handful of us small guys in the Maycott community who are putting products to market and we all can definitely feel that we’re having an impact on them coming out with a line of less expensive tools. In this situation, we all win. There’s a space for everything and I am honored to be in that space.
@@AGlimpseInside of course. Also has to do with economy too. But they have to be careful not to dilute the brand. Let’s see how long it would take for hooked on wood to do a review of the sander holder, if you get my drift lol
The precision process is automated now. One operator, throw in a billet, hit a button, and a perfect precision blank pops out. Hook a hundred of them on a rack, dip in an anodizing tank, again one, maybe two, operator/operators. Pop each one in a fixture to QA each one and apply the markings, probably several people doing this task simultaneously capable of completing a hundred+ each every day. They’re producing aluminum tools, not SpaceX components.
@@jwayneair yeah those tolerances are no better than a $20 square.
Much respect to you this is the first video I've watched of yours. Definitely a classy and great way of handling thus situation. Now invent your next money maker
I was hoping I would see my comment on here. I def said to go buy one from you instead on one of their ads lol. Keep it goin! You must be doing something right if Woodpeckers wants to grab product ideas from you! You have such an amazing attitude and it's infectious. Keep makin.
It is easy to purchase from you, always love to support a small business like yours. I am getting ready to purchase a few more items and I am looking forward to it!!!
I have been watching your channel for many years. It was recommended by one of your other UA-cam woodworkers. (you know who). I watch for inspiration for your devotion to your family and your Passion for life. " Make Life Better". I have looked at Woodpeckers tool as any man looks thru the window of a Ferrari dealership. Love to have one but can't afford it for my daily ride. Wish you More success in your life.
I have to say you are one stand up dude. I know I am late in the comments but I just have so much respect for you right now.
Thank you Mark I really appreciate that brother
I can't afford theirs, I should just buy yours!
I think that bird is impressively gifted
You rock brother! I can guarantee that once I upgrade my sander to one I can use an upside down mount, I will buy yours without question. Just like I did when I ordered your 90 degree clamping bracket. I believe that was the first thing I did order from you. Just like you, I like the red tools as well, but when there is an option of supporting an overpriced brand or you, I will support you every time, and I know I’m not the only one. Keep doing what you’re doing!
I feel the sander hikers are the same but different. The Glimpse inside holder has a soul.
Their triangle and ruling devices are precision devices, milled to spec, the sanding holder is stamped metal with only slight tolerances built in, so CHEAP! Not crappy, but far cheaper construction. A few die taps, several stamped brackets, probably made from already made L's... yeah, good design and proper choice of materials.
Man Chris. Love our local Publix. To think someone like you could be behind the counter just waiting for a chance to shine.
Love this video, have been following you for a while and now a different level of respect.
I'm a woodworker and a golfer. Lol! I have a few extra bucks. Just ordered your sander mount. I appreciate your positive take on this situation.
There is still a woodpecker premium on it. In my opinion, the reason they are expensive is because they are measuring tools and they really pride on accuracy of measurement. To achieve a high degree of accuracy in all environments it might see, they really need to dial down on engineering and on QA which cost a lot of money and i am pretty sure rejects. That drives the cost. For this particular product, you don't need to go overboard with engineering and precision. They still have good profit margins here.
You have inspired me to start my own work shop, I've been wanting to do forever
We need both! They need to double the price for the woodpecker and make it red
My guess is most of your audience would rather support you!!! Every product (and there are a lot) that I've bought from you are amazing and reasonably priced.
I seriously just subscribed first time viewer. I simply subscribed because this man has manned up to life. Much respect we need more men.
The manufacturing process for that sander mount is a lot easier than their precision stuff. That is laser cut and bent, then powder coated. Their precision tooling is machined for solid aluminum billet, then hard anodized and in most cases printed on. It takes a lot more effort and money to build their squares and stuff...
I suspect the precision squares pricing actually comes from inspection and tight guaranteed tolerance. Folded sheet metal is not a precision operation and doesn't come with a precision final inspection so the pricing is lower. (Whether a tool with 0.001" tolerance is needed in a woodshop is a different question - their pricing is lower than someone like starrett). That said... Your sander holder looks way more functional - especially for a home shop where flexibility wins.
Chris, you are a class act! What a great video. This video is a tremendous legacy for your children!
Because of how you’ve handled this situation, I subscribed.
Your an honest, good man Chris! Wish more companies had the same sense ethics!
The type of machining and tooling necessary to make the measuring tools have an accuracy standard they can guarantee is much different than some tool that just holds another tool.
There is no need for sub millimeter accuracy in the production of that tool.
The squares and triangles on the other hand do require not only the accuracy in Mfg but then also a ton of money in quality control to ensure the product meets the promised standards.
I do still feel woodpeckers is expensive but I understand where the cost comes from.
Hey Chris … you are a man’s man!!! Love you brother … stay strong!!
The quick release and reinsertion is actually a pretty big deal. That's a huge difference in user experience. I would buy yours, except I have never once wished I could turn my orbital sander upside down.
I like your style brother. Good luck to you and yours!
As a younger man I worked as a plumber, I had my own business with one employee, worked hard and made a good income. Early on in my apprenticeship I realized that I spent a lot of time working with a five foot three legged wood ladder and that it had a flat top, anything placed on it would fall ff when the ladder was moved, which was frequently. I went to a metal fabrication company and had them make a metal box that was five inches tall and the width and length matched the ladder top which I mounted to the top of the ladder. In it I could put water pipe, waste and vent fittings, tools, glues, whatever. I called it my thousand dollar box because it made me much more efficient. I tried to sell the idea to companies I felt could manufacturer it. My best response was from True Value corporate who said it was a great idea but....... I needed to sex it up, add tool holders to the sides etc. That was the end of that but if you like the idea, its yours.
Hey Chris, Keep up the good work. It is you people want to buy from and keeping your relationship with your base is what will keep us coming back. BTW, the Doug references, love ‘em. And the CNC’d sign behind your left shoulder at 9:49 😂 wow, funny, not sure if that was an “Easter egg” but love it!
Yeah, a little bit of an Easter egg. More on that in the next month or so. So keep your eyes peeled, thank you so much brother
Great response to adversity! Remember, you need energy and time to continue to build forward. Looking back and investing time and energy in seeking justice will distract from the forward build. Factor in not only legal fees, time, energy, emotion, but the opportunity costs of facing backward and not building forward. Life is economics, we need to spend our energy and time most efficient and effectively. Sometimes this can mean the past just doesn't hold enough value.
coming from engineering and manufacturing background for 10 years, I know what it takes to go from initial concept, to preliminary design, to manufactures, test, revise, test, and release to production. Ive worked on circuit boards, cable design, and sheet metal of all shapes and sizes. Looking at that design from woodpeckers and for that cost point, its about right @70$ In fact, i think it might be a smidge over but its hard to gage labor, design, and shipping cost so I give it to them.
On the other hand, I am a new subscriber to your channel! first and foremost great job and Im glad that your sales are offsetting your loss in salary from corporate America.
What i don't understand is the products your selling. Are you selling only products that you invented or reselling items that you have seen else where and making them your own?
Everything is my idea and design. Hence why I made the video. Haha. Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.
Very cool video Chris! I just stumbled upon it as I was about to buy WP version. Needless to say you have a new subscriber and in one video already a fan. I will be placing my order from YOU. So ironic I had the same thoughts and couldn't believe WP price, I expected way more. Great job!
Well, I appreciate that brother. Thanks for being here. Welcome aboard. Thanks for the support as well and the kind words.
That is a fantastic, “what a gentleman“ video.
Hey man, nice stuff you got going on. After watching youre vid, i just ordered one sandstand you make. I think you have the best attitude someone can have in those situation. Keep it up, stay passionated in what youre doing. May God bless you and bring you closer to Him, not just for a glimpse ;)
Thank you so much I really appreciate it. Your support means a lot to us and I hope you have a great rest of the week.
Attaboy Chris! I’m proud of you and the integrity you show us everyday. Keep up the good work.
Hola! 🖐I haven't been much on YT lately and now I'm trying to get "caught up", I guess I missed a lot!!! Well, you should consider it a badge of honor for a "small guy" such as yourself to call WP (a GIANT) your competitor. Seems to me you are doing GREAT! Take care and have a good one, Adios!👊
It might well have been that your idea had very limited ability to be patented. Achieving a patent is a pretty high bar, and expensive. Their design is almost certainly different enough to skirt any patents you would have been granted anyway. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that patents only keep the honest people out, but that's a different topic.
Wish you the best in your business - you're making good stuff and doing a good job connecting with your customers!
Basically I started this new hobby /hobby shop for one reason. That was to make a few things for work that would do two things. First make my job and others easier,ans second show them that they should listen to all employees and all ideas big and small.
The combination really can make a difference for both employees and employer.
Well, my shop is evolving into so much more. It's a source of hope and letting my dreams evolve. I'm so far away from making a financial impact on my life but I have surpassed my goal of being a hobby for fun. It's made a change in my attitude and overall way of life. I saw that philosophy in how you talked about the woodpecker situation you are having. You could have went ballistic and talked all kind of crap. But you continue to move forward and keep a positive mind set. Anyway, you have a new subscriber and listener. Thanks fir reinforcing my philosophy on facing problems.
Right on. Thank you for your insight brother. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. I’m wishing you all the best in your new endeavor as well. Keep on keeping on and best of luck.
I like your description of patent as a 'locked door'. If you wanted to make a living licensing companies to make your designs, fine. But that's a whole other ball game and I can understand why you wouldn't want to get into that.
It's possible that Woodpecker doesn't hold a patent on this and is just taking a chance that you don't have a patent on yours (or research checked that out). So now it's a free design concept floating out there for anyone to copy or customise or develop further. That's a nice thought and you're still doing what you want to be doing.
...on the other hand, it's conceivably possible that Woodpecker MAY have taken out a patent (having established that you haven't). In which case, you could be the only competitor who could get away with producing essentially the same product. They're not going to come after someone who could produce documented evidence that their design was in use before Woodpecker would have taken out the patent. That would immediately void their patent rights.
Hey Chris, just want to say that you have a great channel and I look forward to watching each video you put out. I'm one of those that is of the mindset that your product was copied but I guess we will never know the truth. I have not used my sander upside down really but if I am in need I will purchase your product for sure. Keep up the great work
Your honesty, integrity and love for family and your UA-cam followers is what makes you and defines you. You are one fine man Chris
A patent wouldn't have protected the design here. Theirs is different enough to get around any patent that would have been placed on a Glimpse Inside design. Many companies don't file for patents for this reason alone. They just rely on "first to market" recognition. The one thing you can protect is trade dress. If someone else copies your exact design and/or packaging, you can sue for infringement on that, but that is different than a patent, and much easier to enforce. In this case, even trade dress wouldn't be enforceable, because theirs looks completely different and no consumer would be confused.
Good video, and nice content. Keep up the good work.
SawStop has been dining out on their one idea for a quarter century. They’ve blocked several different mechanisms from reaching market by being what is known in the industry as “Litigious as shit”. Their claim is basically anything that prevents a table saw from playing Finder’s Keepers with your fingers is infringement.
Patents & trademarks & intellectual property protections have more teeth than, say, the Better Business Bureau - but they’re mercenaries, and damn sure for sell to the highest bidder.
Your point of not wanting to exhaust your children’s college fund, or have to sell 4 or 5 of your kidneys, just to fund having 95% of your free time being inside a courtroom is well taken.
It might be an option if you already had a legal department, and piles of cash needing burned through - but if you had those problems….
Love your content.
Cheers!
Patent? Naaa....seen these before yours. Probably not happening. Now...with that said. You make a nice quality product and while I was considering the WP unit. I think when I am ready to buy I will get yours instead. I like that I can just pop it in and out. And I like supporting small businesses. I am a landscape photographer (just google my name) and while my work is world class quality, not a marketing genius so I am a smaller business as well. Totally affects my buying position when it comes to making a decision like WP or your sander bracket. Expect an order from me soon. Thanks for the genuine honest video. You're a good guy and will enjoy doing business with you. :)
Great video, Chris - those of us who have been here for a good while are proud of what you've accomplished for your family... and we're happy to help in every little bit we can. Keep up the great work! 👊
Chris, I love your honesty!!! You are a true breath of fresh air in a society of whiners. You’re 100% correct about patents too - and I speak from experience on that front.
Capital must be allocated to protect Patents & Business Methods which are unique. If you want to protect your Makers marks, just keep creating useful products as you profess.
I always look forward to using the products I've received from you. Everything I've gotten from you is amazing and extremely useful and high quality. I love my push sticks and tool holders.
It would not matter to me if they gave their product away. I would rather do buisness with a man named Chris than a corporation. I always choose to do business with people, whenever possible. I love what you do Chris, and more importantly, I love how and why you do it. keep on Keep'n on.
You make it sound like corporations are evil. You do know they provide jobs for hundreds of hard working people.
Chris, as a business owner for my woodworking, and also owning RAB Tools, a similar business of yours making tools and accessories for woodworkers, I can tell you this: A patent is NOT a DOOR LOCK. It is a closed door. You are correct about the many ways that other people "get around" patents all the time. I have had a multitude of people copy my designs and sell them online, with no repercussions. Without spending many thousands of dollars out of my pocket. It simply isn't worth the expense. All I can do is my own designs, at an extremely higher quality, with excellent customer service, and continue to innovate. Coming up with new tools and accessories and continuing to make life better for my fellow tradespeople, makers, and woodworkers, and gaining their trust, respect, and loyalty is how I chose to combat the problem. Glad to see that you are doing the same! Keep doing your own thing, and we shall all be better off!
Hey Chris love your videos. One comment though. Door locks don’t keep honest people out. Honest people don’t come in uninvited anyway. 🤓 Keep the great videos coming
Chris great job in bringing the giant to his knees. Now out do them again and build a downside up clamp for the beltsander.
Whatever, Woodpeckers. I'm buying the wood one. I haven't needed one until very recently, and clamping into a bench clamp was... interesting. Order incoming soon.
Keep on throwing down brother. You do amazing work and my family loves your videos. Corporate America is cut throat. They always have been and they always will be. There is never enough money for those types of people. They will stomp anyone for a extra dollar and I find it very sad. I choose to support the REAL people like yourself. Great video and you'll always have my support.....not them
Thank you thank you so much for this Jack. Your kind words made my day bro.
Hey Chris, just realized UA-cam had unsubscribed me from your channel.
Glad your video popped up. I’m all resubscribed now.
Just ordered a couple of things from your store. 👍👍👍
Great video Chris!
Your work is second to none may God continue to bless you and your family outstanding job great attitude. Bottom line
Another great video Chris! I've been meaning to order one of your sander mount for some time and just hadn't. When the Woodpecker version came out, I did look at them to compare and hands down would order yours over the Woodpecker all day, everyday. First - Even if your version was more expensive - buying from you supports a family business vs a corporate business. Second, well, I just like your version better... Placing my order now btw... time to get off my back side and get the tools I know I need. Keep the great videos coming!
Despite the title of the video, I think you did a terrific job with this video and I appreciate your humbleness. Keep on rocking
Just found your channel. Subscribe at 199,000. I love your POV. Hopefully, you are at 200,000 subscribers now
Wonderful product, great way to look forward.
I had a product that I decided not to patent after talking to other guitar builders...he is absolutely right. Patents have little enforcement overseas, and it isn't just China. India ships in every well made USA piece of equipment that they can and just straight up copies it...I noticed this in gym equipment.
Great content as always, Chris! I probably read at least thirty comments and did not see any references to your most astute observation. Managing expectations is an art! Your attitude of gratitude is off the charts!!! 💯💯
You just earned yourself another subscriber. Good vid, dude.
I am still amazed at people falling for the Woodpeckers (or certain Festool Products) trap.
Its as if Woodworkers (and makers/creators , aka: CNC'ers) have only seen woodworking brands of tools.
Ideas can’t be patented, only their execution. So you can’t sue someone because he created something based on the same concept. Otherwise you would only have one brand of sander, one brand of saw, etc. Now if Woodpecker did copy your design, then you would have a case, but they only build a tool with a similar goal as yours and have a radically different design.
About the price, I don’t know particularly about Woodpecker (I live in France) but the main reason why quality measuring/precision tools are expensive is that the tolerances needed to manufacture them comes at a cost. In the case of this tool it is mainly steel plates bend and welded together and screws to adapt your tool so the tolerances are quite large. This allows them to have zero waste and drive their cost down. That doesn’t means that they didn’t have to cut their margins a bit due to your product 😊
Well I don't know if it is any consolation, but now that Woodpecker has geared up to produce the sander holder, they will get knocked off and will be on Temu for 14.95.
Your honesty is beyond refreshing …. 🎉😊
Woodpeckers' prices...check
Locks/patents are for honest people...check
Expectation management...check ; (also, expectations are often disappointments waiting to happen)
"Make Life Better"...check
Keep on keepin' on 🙂
Kind of annoying me, but you make pretty good content, so if you ever put a kit together for a belt sander holder, I'll buy one from you. I'll probably buy the orbital sander holder from you at some point, but I don't need it in any upcoming project at the moment.