Actually, Vandoorne didn't dare what Piastri dared: breach the contract and use the first opportunity to debut in F1. If he debuted for Sauber 2016 alongside Ericsson, things would go differently. Instead of this, he remained loyal to McLaren and loyalty doesn't pay off in F1.
And secondly: team principals are even stupid as spectators. They only count 2 things: if you are ahead/behind of your teammate, if your car is fast/slow. If your teammate is ahead and you have a slow car, you are considered as a bad driver, no matter who your teammate is. Let's say: when Massa and Raikkonen had a wider gap to Alonso at Ferrari, they've found a new employer who said: ok, let's try this guy.
Oscar did not break his contract. The idiots at Alpine allowed the contract to lapse. This 'breach' went before the courts and Alpine were shown to not have a contract.
Stoffel Vandoorne is one of the saddest cases of missed opportunity in F1 history You will never EVER see a rookie with the deck stacked against him that badly A failing big name team, an engine with no power on the straights, absolutely SHAMBOLIC reliability, with the car barely able to make it through practice sessions, constant grid penalties for the 11 engine components a season (yes Honda were awful) Basically a rookie season with barely enough track time to learn the car/tracks or even competitive running. That’s 2017 Oh and the team is broke, can’t afford any sponsors, and every upgrade makes the car worse, with little attention paid his side of the garage. By the end of the season they were second last on the grid. That’s 2018 On top of everything, his teammate is Alonso Never stood a chance is putting it lightly
Pourchaire and Shwartzman are two classic examples of very talented F2 drivers that never got an F1 seat and there's a good chance Jack Doohan will join that list
Pffff. All 3 of the drivers are mediocre at best. That’s why Porchaire is irrelevant in Indycar. I’d much rather see Alex Palou or Pato Oward in F1. Even Jason Newgarden would trash those drivers.
@deezwho8990 Lies, Pourchaire won it in his 3rd year Doohan Finished 6th and 3rd in F2 and runner up in his 2nd F3 season. Shwartzman won the 2019 F3 championship in his rookie year and Finished 4th and 2nd in his 2 F2 seasons. None of them are mediocre at all.
I was slightly on the Stoffel hype train in 2015 during his GP2 title win, but I jumped on it more after his very assured debut in Bahrain in 2016, so I had high hopes for 2017. I think he did a decent job in 2017, all things considered. Ok, he didn't start off particularly well but given the car he had it wasn't too terrible, it wasn't as if Alonso was getting points either. He improved towards the end of the season, with Singapore and Malaysia being his highlights (his move on the two Williams drivers stands out in my mind), but his 2018 was poor on the whole, not helped by his pretty woeful qualifying and the rumoured preference towards Alonso. If three-car teams were allowed, I think a 2019 lineup of Norris, Sainz and Vandoorne would've been pretty strong for McLaren, especially when you consider how good the MCL34 was compared to some of their previous cars and how strong Norris and Sainz were irl anyway. Putting Vandoorne in the equation would've made it even more potent. Vandoorne's a driver I really wished could get another decent shot in F1, but it's been really nice to see him do well in Formula E over the last few years, culminating in his title win in 2022, although he hasn't seemed to gel particularly well with Gen 3 so far and he's leaving DS Penske, possibly to go to the other Stellantis team in Maserati in a swap with Maximilan Günther. Though I'd love him to reunite with McLaren; there's a seat seemingly open there as Jake Hughes looks like he's leaving. And I noticed someone mentioned MyDriver in the comments! Loved that series (watched it right from the start), and I agree with that thread, Vandoorne was a monster, whether for McLaren or Jaguar!
McLaren finishing 6th in 2018 is the biggest myth out there They were AWFUL from Monaco onwards, they just kept going backwards. In qualifying they were even worse What is missed is that Alonso only made Q3 twice the entire season. He had a worse quali average than Leclerc and Gasly, both rookies in “slower” cars On pace, for much of the second half of the season, McLaren were 8th fastest at best. Alonso scored points only once in the final 9 races. He got knocked out in Q1 five times in those 9 races The entire team had only two Q3 appearances in 21 races, that is a worse rate than literal backmarkers. The more you learn the more you realize that car was slow as fuck Vandoorne deserved more credit for his race performances and the fact he was a very clean driver (watch a 2018 crash compilation, have fun finding him)
Indeed. The only reason McLaren finished 6th was because Force India went bust and had to start from scratch after the summer break, and even then they nearly caught McLaren! It was painful to watch, especially as a McLaren fan. I guess they gave up on the car early on and put their focus towards 2019, which arguably paid off as they had their strongest season in a while that year. But as good a lineup as Norris and Sainz proved to be, I'd have loved to see what Vandoorne could've done with the MCL34.
Alonso actively sabotaged Stoffel. Saw an interview from the McLaren days, Fernando was talking about how he would give false feedback on where to find grip, parts of the track to avoid so that the team could pass that to Vandoorne. And then of course Alonso beats Vandoorne easily because his team mate is on the wrong lines for the track conditions. This why none of the top teams will touch Alonso anymore, he is extremely toxic vs any team mate who is a real challenge. Not worth risking damaging the careers of younger star drivers.
First time I saw him was is 2013 formula Renault 3.5 in Spa, he was just the best !! Always thought Stoffel deserved another chance in F1 ahead into 2019 but (In my opinion) Mclaren let him down, they just gave him terrible cars and expected him to beat Alonso. Definitely a missed opportunity driver. Another great analysis, nice one! As a suggestions for future videos, can you do a retrospective video on Felipe Nasr and Pascal Wehlein ? =)
Great video mate, always thought Stoffel deserved a second chance in F1. Wondering if you'd do a video about some up incomers in F2 or F3. As whilst everyone is choking on Kimi and Ollie in F2, their all overlooking the great title fight between Hadjar(1st) and Aron(2nd). Would be interested to here your thoughts on them two and whether either of them has what it takes to make it in F1.
@@nedzosf1gridbox For myself it was around Imola and Monaco when I started noticing him doing really well. Last year in F3 I knew he was quick but he didn't seem to know the word consistency existed, it arguably cost him a chance at the title. Now in F2 he has been the poster boy for consistency.
Got in mclaren in the worst time he ever could dream of. Awful cars with awful engines and having Alonso as a team mate. Any other team would be better.
Yeh definitely wrong place, wrong time plus just not being good enough to trully stand out Probably didnt help him having no real support (either more sponsors or political IE a dad with motorsport experience) Like you said, the mcclaren team was trying to rebuild itself which alot of the times means new drivers and personnel as well, I would argue it was Lando that replaced him and not Sainz (Sainz felt more like the Alonso replacement) but all of this feels kinda like Logan now to a similar degree Rookie/academy driver on a team that is rebuilding himself, granted Logan seems worst than Vandorne and Albon is no Alonso but still overall similar circunstances and much like Vandoorne he will probably be spit out and hopefully get some success in indy
Yay thanks! Now will u also make a video about 2 past Mclaren drivers in Heikki Kovalainen and Jan Magnussen? I wondered how much potential of success they had back then?
15:46 Jarno and Fernando were pretty close and he was kicked for external reasons to performance and I think they were like 1 point apart of each other when Jarno was kicked out of Renault
Jarno actually out qualified Alonso in their time together as teammates The mad thing is, he was on pole the race before he was sacked from the team lol
@Duval-In-The-Wall yea, Trulli was a fantastic qualifier and probably didn’t deserve to be sacked but that’s what happens when you have Flav as your boss
I'm sorry but that GP2 field Vandoorne competed against was an absolute joke. With the exception of a Pierre Gasly who is 4 years younger and was still developing the rest of that field is absolutely nowhere.
Alexander Rossi won the Indy 500 literally a year later this, and didn’t get a proper crack at F1, and imo it’s the same with Sergey Sirotkin. It was a plain and boring field, calling it an “absolute joke” is incredibly harsh
Bad argument. Usually the F2/GP2/F3000 driver does not beat dozens of future Formula One superstars - how many of Charles Leclerc's rivals in 2017 do you rate highly, for instance? If you havd watched Vandoorne in 2015, you would have noticed that: - He was a class of his own against 25 drivers running similar cars - He was perfect in pretty much every track, especially in the first half - He made no mistakes It was the most impressive performance I've seen in a single-spec series in my life so far. I will always consider him one of the greatest lost drivers in the world, even though his tenure in DS Penske has been less than stellar.
Actually, Vandoorne didn't dare what Piastri dared: breach the contract and use the first opportunity to debut in F1. If he debuted for Sauber 2016 alongside Ericsson, things would go differently. Instead of this, he remained loyal to McLaren and loyalty doesn't pay off in F1.
And secondly: team principals are even stupid as spectators. They only count 2 things: if you are ahead/behind of your teammate, if your car is fast/slow. If your teammate is ahead and you have a slow car, you are considered as a bad driver, no matter who your teammate is. Let's say: when Massa and Raikkonen had a wider gap to Alonso at Ferrari, they've found a new employer who said: ok, let's try this guy.
Oscar did not break his contract. The idiots at Alpine allowed the contract to lapse. This 'breach' went before the courts and Alpine were shown to not have a contract.
Stoffel Vandoorne is one of the saddest cases of missed opportunity in F1 history
You will never EVER see a rookie with the deck stacked against him that badly
A failing big name team, an engine with no power on the straights, absolutely SHAMBOLIC reliability, with the car barely able to make it through practice sessions, constant grid penalties for the 11 engine components a season (yes Honda were awful)
Basically a rookie season with barely enough track time to learn the car/tracks or even competitive running. That’s 2017
Oh and the team is broke, can’t afford any sponsors, and every upgrade makes the car worse, with little attention paid his side of the garage. By the end of the season they were second last on the grid. That’s 2018
On top of everything, his teammate is Alonso
Never stood a chance is putting it lightly
He's like Nyck de Vries in reverse.
Maybe we'll get that one next time.
Pourchaire and Shwartzman are two classic examples of very talented F2 drivers that never got an F1 seat and there's a good chance Jack Doohan will join that list
Pffff. All 3 of the drivers are mediocre at best. That’s why Porchaire is irrelevant in Indycar. I’d much rather see Alex Palou or Pato Oward in F1. Even Jason Newgarden would trash those drivers.
@@vanbalzup6481irrelevant in indycar? Do you watch the series? He’s only been in a handful of races and is consistently in indycar news
@@vanbalzup6481 You just didn't call those 3 mediocre...
1 became f2 champion after like 5 years and the other 2 was in midfield of f2 bruh
@deezwho8990 Lies, Pourchaire won it in his 3rd year
Doohan Finished 6th and 3rd in F2 and runner up in his 2nd F3 season.
Shwartzman won the 2019 F3 championship in his rookie year and Finished 4th and 2nd in his 2 F2 seasons.
None of them are mediocre at all.
that 2016-18 mclaren was shockingly shit
Arguably I'd say 2015 was just as bad if not worse
The lost potential of Carlos Sainz and Alex Albon videos in 2026.
I was slightly on the Stoffel hype train in 2015 during his GP2 title win, but I jumped on it more after his very assured debut in Bahrain in 2016, so I had high hopes for 2017. I think he did a decent job in 2017, all things considered. Ok, he didn't start off particularly well but given the car he had it wasn't too terrible, it wasn't as if Alonso was getting points either. He improved towards the end of the season, with Singapore and Malaysia being his highlights (his move on the two Williams drivers stands out in my mind), but his 2018 was poor on the whole, not helped by his pretty woeful qualifying and the rumoured preference towards Alonso. If three-car teams were allowed, I think a 2019 lineup of Norris, Sainz and Vandoorne would've been pretty strong for McLaren, especially when you consider how good the MCL34 was compared to some of their previous cars and how strong Norris and Sainz were irl anyway. Putting Vandoorne in the equation would've made it even more potent.
Vandoorne's a driver I really wished could get another decent shot in F1, but it's been really nice to see him do well in Formula E over the last few years, culminating in his title win in 2022, although he hasn't seemed to gel particularly well with Gen 3 so far and he's leaving DS Penske, possibly to go to the other Stellantis team in Maserati in a swap with Maximilan Günther. Though I'd love him to reunite with McLaren; there's a seat seemingly open there as Jake Hughes looks like he's leaving.
And I noticed someone mentioned MyDriver in the comments! Loved that series (watched it right from the start), and I agree with that thread, Vandoorne was a monster, whether for McLaren or Jaguar!
Vandoorne and Wehrlein deserved to be in F1
My next video will be on Wehrlein
McLaren finishing 6th in 2018 is the biggest myth out there
They were AWFUL from Monaco onwards, they just kept going backwards. In qualifying they were even worse
What is missed is that Alonso only made Q3 twice the entire season. He had a worse quali average than Leclerc and Gasly, both rookies in “slower” cars
On pace, for much of the second half of the season, McLaren were 8th fastest at best. Alonso scored points only once in the final 9 races. He got knocked out in Q1 five times in those 9 races
The entire team had only two Q3 appearances in 21 races, that is a worse rate than literal backmarkers. The more you learn the more you realize that car was slow as fuck
Vandoorne deserved more credit for his race performances and the fact he was a very clean driver (watch a 2018 crash compilation, have fun finding him)
Indeed. The only reason McLaren finished 6th was because Force India went bust and had to start from scratch after the summer break, and even then they nearly caught McLaren! It was painful to watch, especially as a McLaren fan. I guess they gave up on the car early on and put their focus towards 2019, which arguably paid off as they had their strongest season in a while that year. But as good a lineup as Norris and Sainz proved to be, I'd have loved to see what Vandoorne could've done with the MCL34.
@@dominicbarden4436
I’d have loved to see what Vandoorne could do in a car that wasn’t a backmarker
If Aston Martin takes Vandoorne or even Drugovich instead of Stroll, it will be defitely an upgrade.
Wrong place, wrong time. Very few could survive McLaren during that period. It broke God Alonso
In MyDriver, Vandoorne was a MONSTER ! So yeah, you're right.
Yea
@@nedzosf1gridbox Oh, you watched MyDriver ??
@DaYapGuy UA-camr championship and mydriver were my childhood
@@nedzosf1gridbox Damn...!! Me too ! I remember even binging MyDriver 4-5 times...
@@DaYapGuy UA-camr championship is a yearly rewatch for me
It gets even worse when you know Alonso told the media that vandoorne was given a much worse car then him.
Yeah
Alonso actively sabotaged Stoffel. Saw an interview from the McLaren days, Fernando was talking about how he would give false feedback on where to find grip, parts of the track to avoid so that the team could pass that to Vandoorne. And then of course Alonso beats Vandoorne easily because his team mate is on the wrong lines for the track conditions.
This why none of the top teams will touch Alonso anymore, he is extremely toxic vs any team mate who is a real challenge. Not worth risking damaging the careers of younger star drivers.
Quality per usual.
@@joshualamp2438 thanks mate
He is a too nice and docile guy for f1 and probably racing
Yea, fair enough
He deserves a better seat than Peugeot now in WEC too, IMO. Still is a great driver.
First time I saw him was is 2013 formula Renault 3.5 in Spa, he was just the best !!
Always thought Stoffel deserved another chance in F1 ahead into 2019 but (In my opinion) Mclaren let him down, they just gave him terrible cars and expected him to beat Alonso. Definitely a missed opportunity driver.
Another great analysis, nice one!
As a suggestions for future videos, can you do a retrospective video on Felipe Nasr and Pascal Wehlein ? =)
Those are next on the list of drivers
I also read around the time of Hungary 2018 for a good chunk of the season he ran with a cracked chassis
That’s not good
I think Stoffel was given an F1 chance too soon.
He won GP2 and had a year out, couldn’t have really left it any longer
Great video mate, always thought Stoffel deserved a second chance in F1. Wondering if you'd do a video about some up incomers in F2 or F3. As whilst everyone is choking on Kimi and Ollie in F2, their all overlooking the great title fight between Hadjar(1st) and Aron(2nd). Would be interested to here your thoughts on them two and whether either of them has what it takes to make it in F1.
Paul Aron is very underrated, I’ve been saying this since Bahrain lol
@@nedzosf1gridbox For myself it was around Imola and Monaco when I started noticing him doing really well. Last year in F3 I knew he was quick but he didn't seem to know the word consistency existed, it arguably cost him a chance at the title. Now in F2 he has been the poster boy for consistency.
@Kartingheadcase02 yep, he went under the radar for a while
@@nedzosf1gridboxthe one who crashes into another driver in Hungary and is unaware of his surroundings? And the same in Silverstone?
Error prone
Don’t know why you hate me so much mate. One incident makes someone error prone? I don’t think so
Got in mclaren in the worst time he ever could dream of. Awful cars with awful engines and having Alonso as a team mate.
Any other team would be better.
Yeh definitely wrong place, wrong time plus just not being good enough to trully stand out
Probably didnt help him having no real support (either more sponsors or political IE a dad with motorsport experience)
Like you said, the mcclaren team was trying to rebuild itself which alot of the times means new drivers and personnel as well, I would argue it was Lando that replaced him and not Sainz (Sainz felt more like the Alonso replacement) but all of this feels kinda like Logan now to a similar degree
Rookie/academy driver on a team that is rebuilding himself, granted Logan seems worst than Vandorne and Albon is no Alonso but still overall similar circunstances and much like Vandoorne he will probably be spit out and hopefully get some success in indy
That mclaren can be labeled as the least reliable engine/car of all time
@@vDaniik definitely in the modern era
Yay thanks! Now will u also make a video about 2 past Mclaren drivers in Heikki Kovalainen and Jan Magnussen? I wondered how much potential of success they had back then?
Jan Magnussen is an interesting case
He definitely did not out perform Button in Monaco 2017
Jenson crashed clumsily in the race. Stoffel did so in qualy where it mattered less
15:46 Jarno and Fernando were pretty close and he was kicked for external reasons to performance and I think they were like 1 point apart of each other when Jarno was kicked out of Renault
@@Jorge.Painkiller that’s something I didn’t consider, although I think Fernando was better in 2003
@@nedzosf1gridbox Yes, he did beat Jarno somewhat convincingly in 03
Jarno actually out qualified Alonso in their time together as teammates
The mad thing is, he was on pole the race before he was sacked from the team lol
@Duval-In-The-Wall yea, Trulli was a fantastic qualifier and probably didn’t deserve to be sacked but that’s what happens when you have Flav as your boss
Shame that he end up in f1 trash can witch is formula e
I'm sorry but that GP2 field Vandoorne competed against was an absolute joke. With the exception of a Pierre Gasly who is 4 years younger and was still developing the rest of that field is absolutely nowhere.
Alexander Rossi won the Indy 500 literally a year later this, and didn’t get a proper crack at F1, and imo it’s the same with Sergey Sirotkin. It was a plain and boring field, calling it an “absolute joke” is incredibly harsh
Bad argument. Usually the F2/GP2/F3000 driver does not beat dozens of future Formula One superstars - how many of Charles Leclerc's rivals in 2017 do you rate highly, for instance?
If you havd watched Vandoorne in 2015, you would have noticed that:
- He was a class of his own against 25 drivers running similar cars
- He was perfect in pretty much every track, especially in the first half
- He made no mistakes
It was the most impressive performance I've seen in a single-spec series in my life so far. I will always consider him one of the greatest lost drivers in the world, even though his tenure in DS Penske has been less than stellar.