I Bought the Cheapest USED ELECTRIC Bike(5 yrs old)
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2022
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Nothing quite like turning the key, pulling back the throttle and hearing the reminiscent sound of a dentist drill winding out
🤣😭
My teeth felt that one... 🤣
well, at least its a noise that make even the beardy harley guys cringe.
@@pezpengy9308 the wind could blow the wrong way and the Harley guys would cringe.
That's one reason why Harley's e-bike isn't selling. You can't hear it from the next county over.
Zero FXS owner here, your power bar wasn't indicating regen was active, you probably needed to ride the bike forward a few more feet before towing it. I can confirm while being towed by my supermoto friends you can tow charge a Zero motorcycle. *Edit* You do NOT have to press the brake, it activates as engine breaking in all modes with different levels of regen. If you don't first give it throttle regen will NOT activate.
Lol. Who cares. Even if you're charging it en route to your destination, there's still alot of wear involved while towing.....tire,chain/belt,bearings etc
@@Senioritis012 totally agree
@@hitekredneck109 it was done for testing and entertainment purposed dawg
Good to know
@@hitekredneck109 Is there more wear and tear form towing than from riding? Not likely. In a tight spot it'd be great to know that it can be charged while towing, especially if no trailer or truck is available.
I'm seriously considering an electric bike now.
The quiet ride alone seems fantastic.
FYI: Regen only works if you are "breaking". It uses power to assist breaking, by "generating" power to create the resistance. The more you break, the more it switches to manual breaks.
This is not true, regarding Zero motorcycles. There is neutral regen, which occurs whenever you let off the throttle, it's equivalent to engine braking. There is also brake regen, which happens when you pull the brakes. These are separate types of regen and both are customizable on a Zero, you can set either between 0% and 100% in a custom riding mode. The reason this likely didn't work is they needed to set Neutral Regen to 100% in the app, and, after keying on the bike, they needed to hit the throttle, to engage the drivetrain and get the bike into "idle". If you simply key on the bike and never hit the throttle, it's not "running" yet. So no regen will happen. You'll notice that the moment you touch the throttle on a Zero that you start hearing a whine even if it's sitting still, that's the motor encoder etc. It shuts off after a few seconds to save energy.
@@protonus exactly custom mode set to 100% regen would work - I had 3 of these Zeros.
@@JosiahKuenzi The issue here is that you are simply robbing power and energy from the tow vehicle. Great if you want to recharge while driving to a riding spot and don't care about the energy usage. Less so if you wish to save money or burn less gas.
You would think they would have done some research. Seems like they just bought it and did zero googling.
Braking
And once again, another great video where a bike just bought is actually tested in reality. No click bait, just "let's see if it can"..... This is how bike testing video's should be done.
But not reading the instructions,oblivious to charging points and how to use them and the cost of charging at home,Ignorant of the kwh cost,in relation to gas,Yes we want to go green at least the brainwashed ones,And most believe electric is the way forward,But here in the UK,We don't have deserts so loads of sunshine isn't on the card,fare bit of wind,Thats about it for renewable energy 27% the balance nuclear power and the dreaded "fossil fuels" hybrids stand a better chance,But my suggestion will have Americans in more fear the nuclear! Hydrogen no not Saturn 5 rocket fuel,Tap water H2O the h is the Hydrogen and the o is the oxygen released into the atmosphere,We have buses and taxes than run on it,Water vapour from the exhaust,I was hoping to find a link but will keep looking
@@Johnketes54 petrol here in England is very expensive compared to the state's, but hydrogen power was dangerous before now, not sure how safe it is now but I do know a lot of big car manufacturers are seriously looking into it now.
Am from Cornwall UK myself so know the score here
Yeah that's what i like on these guys.
The first electric charging station probably paid for by the restaurant within walking distance you guys spent 30 dollars at for lunch.🙂
20-30% of the LION battery is reserved. You probably shouldn't drain it lower than that because it adversely affects recharge cycles, but the bike likely allows you to go farther if you really need to.
I have a zero ds too with 14.4kwh battery. I can typically do 200km. Going down to 160km if I include a lot of highway.
Basically you can ride for 2 to 2.5 hours before you have to take a break. Which is perfectly fine for me. After 2 hours I need a break anyway. And I like it a lot that I do not annoy anybody else with excessive noise.
No idea what a kilometer is I'm from the US
@@tonymartin346 One mile is 1.609344 km, so 200 km is 124.27 miles. It means that he gets the same mileage per charge as in this movie.
@@tonymartin346
1km=0.62 miles. I don’t know how I knew this I’m from England.
Not worth 7grand whaaaaa
@@tonymartin346america used the metric system in some areas and ALL vehicles in production now days have metric bolts and stuff as well. May wanna learn it…
The grass repair in the beginning was on point. Only a seasoned professional could get that kind of results!!! Great video!!!!
🔥🤘🏼🔥
Hey Sean, I am pretty sure that in order for regen to work you will need to apply the brake in order to activate.
Does he really think that coasting would charge the batteries god help him for real.
@@TheNicksievers Bro that's what regen is
@@TheNicksievers he mighta thought it works like some cars, where you turn regen on and in place of braking your car will feel like its "engine braking" which is charging the batteries. no pushing of the brake pedal required.
Start by closing the headlight...
@@TheNicksievers that's literally what it does, the esc just wants a signal on this bike to start it because it's going to make you slow down since the bike doesn't weigh much. Don't be so confident in your stupidity in the future.
Correct me of I'm wrong, but I think to recuperate energy through braking, the brake of the bike must be pulled. Otherwise the system just sails along because it thinks you are just rolling letting the Air Resistance slow you down. Equally to a vehicle with an ICE, when you Release the Clutch and let it roll without braking.
Maybe they did pull the brake and I Overhead it.
This
No brakes were pulled in the making of this Regen attempt.
On some electric motors you can to set the level of regenerative braking when the throttle is released. I thought the switch to eco mode would have worked
It’s regenerative braking
I would think normal mode is best.
Give it a small amount of throttle, see if it works then.
I've been reading about ZERO for a while since they're right down the coast from my home. They're making groundbreaking bikes. They're exploring that envelope and pushing the boundaries. They're really good at what they do... They're not that inexpensive, used, here in Cali...
Not inexpensive? That means they are expensive, fella.
@@clvrswine Not 'that' inexpensive. The one word changes the meaning of the claim. I think he is right to say that they are not that inexpensive. They are not prohibitively expensive like an electric car is. They are expensive.
I'm just gas that they've actually managed to stay alive over this whole last decade, that might be the most impressive aspect of Zero!
@@RyTrapp0 seriously one of the only places still around that hasn’t sold out
@@SirNarax"they're not that inexpensive"...
Are you a lawyer or politician? Who TF talks like that? Reminds me of that impractical jokers show "don't stop letting people not help"
cycling the bike from 100% to a complete stop may have recalibrated the battery so maybe you'll get more accurate battery gauge although it's always nice to have a small buffer when you reach 0% to get you to the next charger instead of needing a tow. I think you can also use a mobile charging service that drives to you with a battery powered charger that gives you the extra charge you need
It probably hits 0% once the battery voltage falls below what’s necessary for the rated performance. The bike is not limiting the speed, it just cannot physical go faster with the voltage.
This video is genius 🤣🤣
@@Finder245 you're right that battery at lower state of charge have lower power output. also the motor can't make as much power or top speed from the lower voltage. but usually power doesn't just go down gradually since some limitation from the controller or BMS kicks in and suddenly reduces power output (limp mode). I think the zero motorcycle battery cells are high discharge which explains why they keep decent torque even at 0%, and also because all the torque is available low, you don't need 100% of the torque to make the. bike still feel quick
@@geemy9675 I used to work on an electric vehicle as an engineer, so I am familiar with how these systems work. As the battery discharges, its voltage also decreases. The motor has a “Kv” rating that limits the maximum RPM achievable with a certain voltage. As the battery voltage drops, eventually it reaches a point where the power may still be available, but the voltage is too low to get you to acceptable speeds. This is a physical limitation and not a limit imposed by the controllers. We would consider this to be 0% since the remaining energy is not really useful. It might let you limp for a while though, so no beed to cut power completely until the battery voltage gets close to where it could cause permanent damage.
Regen is dumb it wastes energy that would normally be saved when coasting.
Didn't realize the older DSR looks just like the older SR. My 2018 SR 14.4kw gets about 75miles riding hard thru the mountains. Cost about $2 to fill up, $0.16 per kw. When towing regen you need to hold the front brake. That is what activates regen under the Zero settings. Unless you do the custom setting to do regen while coasting.
Good to know. How do you set up the custom modes ?
@@BikesandBeards Via the Zero app
@@BikesandBeards It is actually a two stage regen. 1st is off throttle, has light regen. Second is brake switch activated (same as brake light switch), stronger regen. But don't expect the regen to feel like down shifting engine braking. 1st stage feels like 5th or 6th gear engine braking. 2nd stage feels like 4th or 3rd gear engine braking. Lots of time I just want to slow with regen instead of brakes but 1st stage is too soft so I'll lightly activate brake just enough to activate brake lights to go into 2nd stage regen.
Also don't expect much if any regen power back. For me it only reduces consumption just like off the gas on a ICE going downhill
You can set up 100% regen in coasting mode in Custom mode in the Zero app.
Regen on a bike is only useful in city riding as far as range extension goes, because at highway speeds you never get all the way off the throttle even going down steep hills.
This is gonna be long but I hope it helps to clear up confusion over regen.. People often assume that an electric bicycle will have regenerative braking, or that it will charge up as you pedal. Both assumptions are incorrect, and in this blog post we explain to you why.
“Does it charge as you pedal?”
This is a question frequently asked about electric bikes. The simple and quick answer is no - there is virtually no point charging the battery with your pedal power, because you would be taking away some of your leg power from pushing you forward, to convert it into battery energy (losing some in the process), to then convert it back into mechanical power via the motor, to push you forward.
It makes much more sense just to use all of your leg power to drive you forward! The motor should be run off of a battery that can carry a huge amount of energy, charged up from the mains power in your home a lot faster than you can charge it by pedalling.
“Does it have regenerative braking”?
This is an equally common question. Regenerative braking means capturing your kinetic (movement) energy as you brake, putting it back into the battery to be used again later instead of just wasting it as you stop.
Because most hybrid electric cars have regenerative braking, the term is synonymous with “electric vehicle” and as such many people tend to assume that an electric bike will also capture and recuperate energy as you pedal or brake.
“Why do no eBikes have regenerative braking?”
However - almost no electric bikes have regenerative braking. Why? Because a person on a bike weighs about a lot less than a car. Therefore there is a lot less energy available to be captured (which is what regenerative braking does). When you cycle, 90% of your effort and energy goes into pushing you through the air which resists you as you move. Perhaps less than 10% is lost because you brake - so even in the best case scenario when you capture all of your kinetic energy when you brake, you’ll only go 10% further as a result.
Don’t believe it?Let’s do the maths!
Standard flat commute: how useful is regenerative braking?
Imagine you cycle 20 miles on your 10Ah battery on a totally flat stretch of road.
You’re going at 25kph which is 7 metres per second (nice and legal) and the total weight of you and your bike is 120kg. The equivalent energy of that is 1/2 mv^2 which is equal to 2,940 Joules of energy.
This is the equivalent to just 0.022 Amp Hours in a 36V battery. Assuming that you have regenerative braking capturing that energy with 50% efficiency then you would have to stop 45 times in 20 miles to get just a 5% increase in range.
Put another way, if you expect to come to a full stop 10 times during your trip (which seems reasonable), having regen braking would only increase your range by 0.22Ah which is just 2.2% increase.
So all in all I think it is fair to say that for flat commutes regenerative braking is totally pointless.
“Hilly commutes: any better?”
Obviously a better use regenerative braking is for hills. The potential energy of you on a hill is mass x gravity x height.
Let’s work out, for a 120kg eBike rider and ebike, how much height you would have to be expecting to climb and come down again to make regenerative worth it. Let’s say 20% increase in range
So 2Ah with a 36V battery is equivalent to 259,200 Joules.
Given a mass of 120kg, and gravity of 9.8, this gives a height of 220 metres
But! Don’t forget the efficiency.
With a 50% efficiency of regenerative braking that changes to 440 metres.…
So there you have it - assuming you want increased range of at least 20%, if you don’t expect to climb more than 440 metres in your average commute then regenerative braking is not worth it.
So where does all the energy go?
The reason regenerative braking doesn’t help increase your range as much as you think, is that most of the energy from your battery is being used to combat air resistance.
Because most of the energy from your battery is lost to air resistance, recopuing the kinetic energy as you brake doesn’t make much difference. So we suggest that instead of getting regenerative braking, try just wearing Lycra!
beautifully explained, hope they learn from it
simply it adds more drag thus deflating the ego of regen lols
“Does it charge as you pedal?”
If bicycles did this it would be just like carbon capture technology in its current state. I say *current state* because the technology is still work in progress, but right now the whole thing is pretty funny.
Have my kids
I am not sure why you think this but motorcycles do indeed have regenerative braking, including at least some models of Zero. The ones I am familiar with all do.
Also while your point about a car being heavier and generating more energy due to regenerative braking is valid, cars also use much more energy for the same reasons. Bike regenerative braking generates less energy, but bikes also use much less energy and have smaller batteries.
For the regen to activate you have to be on the throttle for a little bit... Usually how it works for electric scooters etc.
regen is purely and only a breaking force ,it has nothing to do with the throttle
It was my impression that regen only works when pulling the brake lever.
Honestly I always thought these bikes were stupid, but after watching this vid I’m considering buying a used zero as a second bike for commuting. I live in a pretty big city and don’t commute more than like 20 miles a day ever so I don’t see why not. Sean is the only guy who could’ve even made me start considering this what a legend
Definitely a great bike, it'll make your money worth the investment.
These are the best bikes for commuting in the city! I have one and was living in Los Angeles and it was great. When you have 32 traffic lights in 5 miles, you will appreciate the lack of clutch. Plus it doesn’t get hot when you’re stuck in traffic. So easy to lane split (which is legal in California and you would never get anywhere if you didn’t).
I rarely paid to charge it using public chargers, otherwise it’s about $10 or less a month to charge (depending on what the charging company charges, the most I’ve paid to charge was $1.95 at ChargePoint in West Hollywood from 15%, but it was usually .75 cents-$1.00 per charge from 20-30%).
New rider....but all about electric bikes. My buddies who ride are against electric. I know they aren't good cruisers but as commuting bikes they are awesome. Five more years and they will be getting great range, chargers will be prevalent, and quick refills. Just hope prices on bikes drop.
That is the ONLY reason imo to get an electric motorcycle. I rode the Zero SR/S a couple weeks ago. As a Ducati and aprilia and Moto guzzi owner, these electric bikes have nothing for me, EXCEPT commuting. Keep the start cycles off my ICE vehicles and charge overnight. Like riding a really powerful sewing machine. But they’ll get the job done as long as pure fun and exhilaration are NOT the goal. I’m not down on ev motorcycles. But they’re competing with the wrong bikes. CHEAP(er) electric grom/versys300/super cub equivalents would be the sweet spot until we can get 200+ highway miles on one charge. Ryan f9 did a cost analysis. Compared to a KLR 650, the electric Zero FX isn’t a better deal (maintenance /fuel/parts) until AFTER 30,000 miles. knowledge is power. Don’t buy one for savings. Buy one to keep start/stop cycles off your ICE vehicles.
@@JpOcDenver LOL what a maroon. You haven't actually ridden a Zero if you think they're anything other an absolute blast, especially in the corners.
The only reason NOT to get a Zero (other than the lack of customer support) is the lack of DC fast charging, which will forever constrain them to short trips or joyrides.
But if you *really* want to get your mind blown get an Energica. They do *everything* well and have DC fast charging.
A friend of mine has a Zero Bike (the SR/S model) and its fun as hell. The instant power is a bit scary to mess with, but still fun
Every time I'm in a state that has a Wawa I absolutely positively have to stop and get store brand mocha cappuccino in a bottle just like that
@@THEPAINOFITALL Cycletrader has 18 used Zeroes under $10k, 3 or 4 of those under $7k.
Good point about the charging. I was thinking of purchasing this one for work, but it would be nice to have charging available for pleasure riding. Maybe Tesla could make extra $$$ by making adapters, and selling charging time to other non-Tesla owners. It would be nice if the display was larger, and had a built in GPS map showing the nearest charging station for this bike. I sure wish the regeneration option worked. It's good to know that at least I can charge while on the road.
Tesla should make adapters? You mean like travel back in time to when adapters didn't exist?
@@sammmyDaviS they won’t be having those for long. Apparently Tesla hasn’t paid the property owners that those chargers are sitting on. They pay a monthly lease to those property owners and haven’t paid out to anyone in over 8months.😅
So maybe making an adapter and charging external customers that don’t have Tesla’s for charging would help recoup some of those leases.
@@juice84569 You saw one or two people that’s not everyone 🤡
That's actually a good looking bike. but enough charging stations nationwide is UNREALISTIC especially here in rural communities...
Thank you for spending time on the details of charging. That is what I am most curious about. Riding it is no problem.
As a commuter, it would make sense ..or so you would think. It depends highly in your commute. I tried a zero fxe with 160km ot range supposedly. My work has chargers so that would have been ideal. My commute is 60km one way, mostly highway. The range drops extremely fast on the highway, after 15 minutes , it went down to 80km, doing 120km/h. Another 10min later, it was down to 50. So you start to realise that you have to slow down to 90km/h behind a lorry to get some range back. And I was thinking to myself..what the hell am I doing. And they are not cheap. I know there is a expansion pack etc...but it's expensive. If your commute is like 20km in city traffic, go for it. Any highway miles that are longer than 30 min, better forget about it .
its what is called the peaukert effect, the faster you pull amps out of a battery the less amp hours the battery will give, thats why they do much better about town where the battery gets recovery breaks than constant full tilt on a highway, you can overcome this by having a bigger battery (which might sound obvious) but the load will be shared over more cells, therefore, the load on the individual cells will be less (which is what tesla opted to do having the capacity in a car to carry more cells than just ample which they also use to extend the lifetime of the battery by not fully charging it and not fully discharging it ie having a battery twice the size required will extend the range well in excess of twice as far and not fully charging and discharging will extend the cycle life of the pack) unfortunately there is a practical limit the size a battery pack can be on a motorcycle which limits the number of cells you can carry, i think a trike would be a much better base for an electric motorcycle for longer distances given current battery technology, i know it all sounds obvious but doubling the battery size gives a lot more than double performance back because of the peaukert effect for the same reason you get more miles if you sip the power and ride slowly
Wrong bike for 60km highway. The FXE has only half the battery size of the S ore DS.
Zero claimed 160km in town and 64km at 113kmh. The range drops because of the high current on higher speeds. So the internal software recalculates the possible range at your actual riding style.
I drive 28 miles 1 way at 55mph barely made it than it was almost impossible to sell to get some of my money back
@@oldskoolhead0 interesting, thanks. It’s not often I find something truly useful in the comment section haha
It can never make sense with current technology ;-) So unless there is some crazy breakthrough you can forget about electric motorcycle. Especially if you are not asian guy of 165cm/65kg. Otherwise ALL of them have similar range be it bike for 4500 USD or 14500 USD ;-) Plus like 90% of those under 15k USD do not have quick chargers so it takes 4 and more hours to charge. You can't replace your gas bike with this for next dozens of years. And things like Zero and such do not make economical sense at all. The place where it makes sense are e-MTB stuff or trial. Next will be MX/enduro races. But street.... Purely electric was wrong idea in 19th century and good to see that nothing changed 😀
Great episode, love these kinds of vids! I enjoy the restorations too but I love watching you guys just goof around and try experiments like this
You can buy an adapter to charge from a charging station and plug it into the AC charger. It takes so long to charge because the slower the batteries charge the longer they last.
13:09 the 1st ever diesel hybrid motovan coolest thing I ever seen it's both diesel & electric as it is botha van & a bike so sick!!!!!!!
It’s the instant torque that makes the Zero a traffic killer. No shifting, instant power delivery is the way to go. Battery life aside the performance thru traffic of a Zero is no contest.
yeah the sound of a combustion engine is nice but can get old. instant torque will never get old
I have a Onyx ebike and yes the instant torque even tho my bike is capped at 50-55 mph i fly over to the next light when the light turns green.
Regenerative charging should only work while breaking. So maybe pull in the front break with zip ties or something and try that way?
You can set them to regenerative without braking. Mine starts as soon as I roll off the throttle all the way.
i think it starts when you let of the throttle, to kinda simulate engine braking on a gas bike.
Na there are 2 different types of regen motor regen and Regenitive braking not sure if that year has both the newer models do.
@@miguel360kmc I drive a lower model from the same year and have both. I can't imagine an upgrade model has fewer options than the base.
@@dustinflowers1914, say that you're on the interstate and have crested a mountain (Donner Summit) and are starting down a 50 mile downgrade to Sacramento. Dynamic braking should have the power to maintain speed and return power to the battery. Supposedly, Teslas do this.
Bikes and Beards is my new favourite UA-cam channel. Thanks for the entertaining,smart content.
I own a 2019 Zero SR (almost the exact same bike)... IT IS A BEAST around town. But only around town. Even thought it's a 2019, it's still got the same highway range as any new electric motorcycle. I.e. 70 miles. Then it's 4 hours to charge at a type-2 charging station. Here's the thing. I only wanted an "in city" motorcycle to commute and bop around on. It is perfect. I can commute 10 days on one charge (I have a short commute). I got mine used for $10k (3 years ago). Thing is, even if the battery life drops to 50% from new, I'd still only have to charge it once a week. (Best part, the local power company has a free charging station near my office. I have never had to pay for charging in the 3 years I've owned it... score...)
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What's funny about this video is that the DSR comes with knobby tires so you can take it off-road. Someone put slicks on it. (Which is too bad)
Another video to keep me busy while being deployed overseas. I enjoy your videos man thanks for keeping me entertained during these months away from home.
Any one with you overseas selling any bikes when u guys get v
Back? 0621 usmc. OOH RAH
Hell yeah Semper Fi Boys!
Be safe out there. God bless you.
Sheesh marine cultists, hide yo crayons, hide your goats.
God bless. Stay frosty. Unless you're a South Korea near-civi POG, then you already frosty lol.
But for real, God bless, brother.
Proud owner of a 2020 Zero SR, they are great for city-based riders, commuters... Zero unfortunately has taken a page out of Apple and Tesla's playbook by gating off the motor's full potential in its 2022 model year series... By locking off features already present in the motor they have really gut-punched the future of adaptation. Via their Cypher Store, Zero intentionally lessened the value of their products and created measures of obviously planned obsolescence, sure maintenance is minimal but the issue is this bike can't be repaired just anywhere and it creates issues for longevity with their firmware updates by creating an anti-consumer based eco-system.
Hopefully recent "right to repair" legal battles will change that.
The market of jail breaking ever expands
That's why I won't ever be buying one. Someone else will do it better and without the bullshit feature walls.
Hopefully the competition will make Zero pay for what they did. I'm thinking of buying an electric motorcycle. Thanks for the info.
This is the main issue with all these Ev companies. Same but even worse with the one wheel.
the Quib charger has a output wire that stops the motor controller . if you unplug the the signal wire connector it will charge and drive .
Best damn videos on earth! You fellows deserve a lot of success. I find myself binging multiple episodes, staring at my phone while I cook dinner! Pure fun! Cheers!
You never got any likes because we were all too busy binge watching.
I have the 2021 Zero DS. Living in Las Vegas, charging for free is everywhere. As a daily commuter these Zeros are friggin fun.
On the electric vehicle stuff, in the city, electric bikes are sick!
If you’re already in the market for one, it’s in your price range, your driving needs match up with the range (and available charging near you), or you just really want one; I guess go for it…
Love the content man. Very cool to see you come to my neck of the woods! I have a very small UA-cam channel, and did a review of my bmw 335i right there in Port Deposit. Also get my tires replaced across the street from that Wawa. I’ll have to try the crab chicken sandwich! Keep up the good work 🙏🏻
It actually as you have already mentioned calculates range based on your riding habits ... And I don't believe that it recalculates that range until you fully recharge again. It does make on the fly adjustments with calculated distance.
I've been getting into studying electric bicycles and the custom builds you can do. No registration required here and plenty of trails with more coming online soon. Vehicle drivers here get crazy though so the streets themselves can be iffy to ride on in some crowded areas. Haven't had a wheeled metal friend that had that low of a top speed since I got a minibike at 10 years old.
Literally every EV made today (except Tesla) uses a standard charger. Tesla didn't want to wait for the standard to be created and went with their own. Tesla announced they'll be introducing comparability soon.
There was no standard. Additionally, Tesla wanted other vehicle manufacturers to pay them to use their charging ports. Telsa is NOW making their stations universal due to the new Federal regulations on universal EV access. EV batteries ought to be interchangeable as well.
@@clark7117 the problem is that's not at all practical yet. Even with smaller batteries, the range would be so far diminished. That being said, solid state batteries are currently in development and may be a viable option for that.
Tesla also has that proprietary instant combustion technology. So the whole vehicle Burns to the ground 🤣
@@fiendeng that feature doesn't seem to be working in any of the Tesla's I see around me...
@@fiendeng nope that would be any GM ev
if the regen recharging recharges while breaking in ecc mode you might have to engage the brake slightly while being pulled by the van
For max range your enemy is speed. The energy required (gas and ev) goes up exponentially (or squared) with speed…so keep to 50 instead of 70 and your range improves by about 30%. BTW..running it until it won’t go is v bad for batt life.
I have a few answers for the regen braking problems you guys encountered. Loved the video though, these bikes are definitely worth the money, even second hand.
You guys had to hit the brake lever at a certain speed, I think it's around 3 MPH when it engages. It won't work unless you pull the lever once at speed, I mean it's called regenerative braking for a reason.
You don't want to brake every time you let off the throttle do you? Maybe you just want to coast at speed or downhill without losing speed or basically braking.
Regenerative braking is for when you are using your normal brakes but a portion of the stopping power comes from the regen braking or KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) and in return it charges your battery. Or imagine you are coming to a stop at a red light and you are way ahead of the lights. You just tap/squeeze the brake lever once and it kicks in the regen braking and again slows you down but at the regen strength you choose.
So you come to a full stop without using your mechanical brakes which in return puts more energy back into the battery than with both together. That's how it works, it would definitely be very interesting to see how much it would've recovered from all that towing. A follow up video would be desirable for sure!
Exactly, very well put! 👊🏼
This is not true, regarding Zero motorcycles. There is neutral regen, which occurs whenever you let off the throttle, it's equivalent to engine braking. There is also brake regen, which happens when you pull the brakes. These are separate types of regen and both are customizable on a Zero, you can set either between 0% and 100% in a custom riding mode. The reason this likely didn't work is they needed to set Neutral Regen to 100% in the app, and, after keying on the bike, they needed to hit the throttle, to engage the drivetrain and get the bike into "idle". If you simply key on the bike and never hit the throttle, it's not "running" yet. So no regen will happen. You'll notice that the moment you touch the throttle on a Zero that you start hearing a whine even if it's sitting still, that's the motor encoder etc. It shuts off after a few seconds to save energy.
It’s the chic-fil-a straws at the sushi restaurant for me 🤣🤣😂
that was soo funny
Y'all feel like doing a little challenge? KLR 650. 2 needle kit/ jet set
Eagle Mike KLX needle kit vs MCP kit
I just did the KLX kit on my KLR. I didn't know MCP existed until KLR groups and curious of how much of a different it really is
You can put a generator on it if you hook the wire up to the output side of the battery.
I other words hook it up to the motor. Maybe hook a bipass from the charger to the motor/battery-output.
It will take a lot of amps.
3 smart things to do with an E-Bike
1. To not ride it on longer trips, rather doing short city runs n saving fuel
2. To not waste a lifetime waiting it to charge
3. To not measure 0-60 on a downhill... its so heavy it`ll make 10s just in neutral.
I got a work from home job just so I could start being late to work and not get introuble because you guys always drop when shifts be starting.
oh no
Yea me too
@@coreygilbert62 lmao same
Tim, it’s James from HR. I’ll need tou to turn in your corporate laptop by Friday at 3pm. You’re being terminated for excessive tardiness. We wish you luck in your future endeavors.
@@jtec99 🤣
I can't get with the electric cars but the bikes actually are kinda neat 👌 sounds like a super huge rc car and that's kinda cool. Bikes are light and the battery probably lasts longer... we got 2013 plus teslas needing powertrain and battery replacements already. That makes 60s cars look good by a long shot...
12:08 Funfact: My Home City in Germany, Mainz has a custom built diesel Hybrid MK1 Facelift Mercedes Citaro Hybrid thats ARTICULATED and to this day i still think its crazy that they pulled that off
I'm not familiar with that bike but regen is usually triggered by braking. It uses the regen to substitute braking and charges while doing it. I'm not sure how much regeneration takes place while coasting, especially on a small vehicle like a bike.
This is not true, regarding Zero motorcycles. There is neutral regen, which occurs whenever you let off the throttle, it's equivalent to engine braking. There is also brake regen, which happens when you pull the brakes. These are separate types of regen and both are customizable on a Zero, you can set either between 0% and 100% in a custom riding mode. The reason this likely didn't work is they needed to set Neutral Regen to 100% in the app, and, after keying on the bike, they needed to hit the throttle, to engage the drivetrain and get the bike into "idle". If you simply key on the bike and never hit the throttle, it's not "running" yet. So no regen will happen. You'll notice that the moment you touch the throttle on a Zero that you start hearing a whine even if it's sitting still, that's the motor encoder etc. It shuts off after a few seconds to save energy.
@@protonus no, the reason this did not work is because the front wheel was not turning. The bike knows that the front wheel is not turning because of the front brake sensor. It will not activate Regen unless it knows it's on the road and not on the back of somebody's truck…
I have the 2018 version of that bike. it uses a J1772 AC level 2 charging system. AC level 2 charging systems charge 3KWH to 7KWH. Your 2017 has a 13.3kwh battery. 2018 has a 14.4kwh battery. Basically 2 or 2.5 hrs to charge. Costing a few cents, free, $1, or $2.59 to fully charge.
Awesome Video, i dont know if this helps but lithium batteries usually say 0% when its 20% because under 20% wears the battery down.
Love your videos man keep it up. Sending best wishes from South Africa.
By far the most entertaining funniest footage I ever seen. Instant sub liked comment keep this coming. Love this video never laughed like that before in my life ever. You are sooooo lit....
I'm open to these being a commuter tool.
Just something to ride to work each day during the week.
That is... if they bring down the cost these things and the cost of the replacement battery. The battery would also have to last 10 years or more and be serviceable by the end user. I'm hesitant for the simple fact that you will get price gouged somewhere along the way. Either by purchase price, parts, or service.
The price of the Zero motorcycle S model with the quick charge capability is approximately $14,000. I paid $12,800 for a new T120 Triumph Bonneville and will be paying substantially more to fuel it with gas and maintain it that one would every pay for the Zero S. Electric motorcycles are clearly cost competitive now for the average rider. The Zero S makes perfect sense if you are riding in an urban or suburban environment which the typical motorcycle owner does. Few riders take the big motorcycle trip piling on thousands of miles at a time Most are riding less than 100 miles at any one time. Which is doable on a modern electric motorcycle
@@johnpaulgarzaniti5065 keep us posted with the lifespan of the battery, availability of the replacement, cost of the replacement, and user serviceability.
The motorcycle I own now is 20 years old so I tend to keep my bikes for a very long time.
@@johnpaulgarzaniti5065 Not a very good example wasting your money on a bonnerville then making a comparison,How about a cheaper Japanese bike like a Kawasaki twin at £9,000 a better comparison,Anything other than Japanese is a waste of money but heh it's your money,Even £9,000 on a twin is a waste of money,I've had twins OK when i didn't know any better,Four cylinders is money well spent,But your promoting a electric bike on a overpriced Triumph,I'm British myself but not that patriotic
I am guessing the charge remaining is set up similar to fuel tanks. Depending on how you drive it and the type of vehicle, it still has a small reserve once the guage hits empty so you can still have enough time to get to a refuelling point.
Nice bike with lots of power, although my smaller Ebike got me around 25 miles and I still had juice on the battery. Nice video thanks for sharing man.
If you want free, you may want to check out your local library, if you have a library card, select libraries have charging stations.
I would imagine that the age of the bike and battery, that it would have issues charging especially since the battery is a lithium battery and they have it where it starts charging to 100% without a complete charge.
Finally a channel I enjoy reviewing an electric motorcycle I am actually interested in buying.
140 miles would get me to work all week on one charge. Not bad if you live somewhere somewhat suburban.
Yes, and if you have a garage or access to a household current plug-an overnight charge regularly is a surefire way to keep the battery charged and lasting longer.
I have used free chargpoint chargers, they work great with the card which you get for free. Part of why free chargers exist is that the electricity costs peanuts, and it doesn't take very much in sales to recoup that cost. Also Volkswagen made a deisel hybrid a while back, it got somewhere around 200 mpg.
ReGen in a EV comes from braking lol. It captures kinetic energy from braking and converts it in a tiny bit of charge. Currently Formula cars are hybrid and have the same technology. Whenever you see the “Brake light” in F1 cars, the driver is using regen to charge up the battery.
Wrong. They charge when coasting to a stop. You don't even need the brakes.
yea, I know how ReGen works, I explained it above. You're fixating on the fact that I said it happens during braking. Doesn't make any of what I said false.@@Magicinstalls
Regardless of what the average EV cost is doesn't mean there aren't cheaper options available the Leaf/Bolt/egolf are all around the 30K MSRP but they have lower range (the bolt is higher) than the expensive Teslas. Batteries are the the real cost. If you have a secondary vehicle in your life which you can utilize for long distance travel then the addition of a EV can actually make a lot of economic sense... I'm also in Cali paying over $7 for diesel so the savings add up quick.
Plus it’s not that everyone should run out right now and buy or trade in for a electric vehicle, but should consider one when thinking about their next vehicle purchase.
Lots of people told me I should have gotten my wife an EV. Problem was they are double what the fiesta cost, at 31mpg average it would take the life of an EV to come close to breaking even. Add in thousands to get a charger installed at the house and its even longer.
@@randombuilds8336 With fuel costs varying so much from region-to-region it really is dependent on where you live. I think the economic incentive is really only there for people who live on a coastal state where gas prices are the highest vs the rest of the country and not only in a coastal state but also in a metropolis where there is decent charging infustructure.
With the home charger you don't need some thousand dollar charger. You can just have a smart toggle on your dryer and the charging cable, $100 for a home charging set up.
@@motocache6645 Yeah, they'll be great in places like CA where you get told to turn your ac to a higher temp because there isn't enough electricity generation to run everyone's appliances.
@@randombuilds8336 lol. Hey, if you want to base your life around fake news where you need to spend thousands of dollars to charge from home and the CA power grid is imploding, I can't stop you.
I believe you have to hold the brake "SLIGHTLY" to engage "DRAG" on the motor for "RE-GEN" to even work. you should def. try again with a rubber band or hair tie around the brake lever and roll it to charge.
You could be right
@@BikesandBeards I have an electric bicycle with regen braking and thats hoe it works
"EVs wont save you money" also "i dont know the different levels of charging". real expert level info here
Thats sadly a reoccurring problem on UA-cam.
The funniest MC review I've seen in a while, maybe ever😂 Great job👍
Hysterical, Sean you're killing us!😂
I Love electric bikes, but sadly its gonna take a long time for battery's to get small and powerful enough that decent range can be a thing.
For lower speed/ Moped kinda bikes it's probably already good enough. I drive a Super Soco for Work - Home traffic and with free charging at work it's pretty nice
I feel like that’s the best option is if you live in a city and drive something electric on the sidewalks at slower speeds to commute to work. But trips or anything like that you can forget it for now,
Agreed I have a VW e golf I get 80-100 miles on a charge. Great for my needs. But on a motorcycle that I would use for pleasure. Current ranges just wouldn’t do it. For me anyways I would need or want 175-200 miles per charge at 70 mph. I know they will get there.
Check out Toyotas battery tech. If money is to be made they will find a way.
It's not about the batteries so much but the charging speed. If a motorbike could take the same 150-250kW charge a modern EV gets, the entire battery could be charged in a few minutes. A 20 kWh battery can get you 200 miles of range already. That's more than most gas powered bikes.
If the charging time would be as long a fueling up at a gas station, there is no competitive advantage for gas bikes anymore even if all you do is long-distance riding.
For cities electric bicycles are already the most efficient mode of transportation there is.
i think it depends on your use case. i actually started on a super soco, a great learner bike. i ride a zero s now, and i get about 150 miles out of it in the city, which is perfect for a day's work delivering food. charging takes just shy of 2hrs. i guess more range would be nice for road trips and such, range is more like 110 miles at higher speeds. but honestly, once i got the fast charger installed, i've never felt restricted. maybe it's just me, but my backside appreciates a rest by the time the battery's gone.
Nothing like the instant speed and silence, and a button to power it up like on my solar eclipse ❤️
I wonder if the Regeneration works when you apply the brakes? Thanks the video
Yes! I own a very similar Zero S (11.4 battery). Everything you say about the bike is correct (really bad suspension, mediocre brakes, pretty bad seat, stealthy feel). I will note that regen does work for me, but I think you need to change a setting for it or it mostly only regens when brake is applied. It'll be interesting to see how long it survives in your hands.
On a side note: I think you got a good deal on it, but these are super hard to sell. I think you could get 9k for it on a perfect day but also will likely struggle to find buyers at 7.5k.
You Think They’ll Buy It After It Was Used To Push A 7000 Pound Van For Half A Mile. If It Was Worth a Damn I Bet It Isn’t Now
@Always Play The Game - I'm looking at these bikes. Is there a good place to find them used? I'd love to find a deal on one.
@@johnfarr5415 It's easy in places like Orange County. In the midwest (like I live) - nope. I can't find a single used one for sale within 300 miles of me. I bought mine from a dealer.
7500 for a DRS with charge tank? That's a steal. Or a friend price from someone who loves the channel.
The charge tank alone costs 3000....
“I’m saving the environment!” As he rolls coal. I love this guys sense of humor
For real 😂
😆
I bought one fully customized & it's the smartest purchase I've made....down side, parts are hard to come by.....very very specific parts...if one thing goes bad....good luck..it's not a perfected model yet...but very worth the risk...gata do a full computer reset.....& building your own lithium battery is way more economic....
Trains are diesel hybrid and so are a lot of buses. I think we might start seeing diesel hybrid semi trucks sooner than you might think. If a large shipping company had a fleet of hybrid trucks that could use a system where the trailer had most of the batteries in the frame. You could essentially pull up to a trailer that was fully charged and get over 1000 miles of range on a fraction of the fuel. Could even put efficient solar panels on the roof to aid charging. It would be extremely expensive to switch to, but the savings would pay you back quickly for a large company like Walmart or FedEx that spend almost a billon dollars a year on fuel. In fact the recent fuel inflation cost Walmart nearly 200 million dollars more than normal in the first QURTER of 2022. This is one of the reasons we have to deal with the insane inflation.
That would have done my 34 mile onle way commute into the City from my house to the Office easy. And the best part is I could have charged it up at the Office for free. But, I retired in 2009 and don't have a commute anymore. My trusty 150K mile KLR is still rocking my into town trips at 50 mpg. I would have bought an E Bike it they were on the market while I was still working.
Complete opposite when it comes to the limp mode on these. My 2018 Zero S starts bogging down around 40% and limps at 10%. My Livewire even down to 3%, still had full power.
Yeah, but the Livewire is the fancy bike ^-^
Thank you for solidifying my belief that my baby GS was a good investment to shave on gas expenses....petrol charging stations are everywhere and although my 0-60 isnt as much fun I can get close to 70 mpg around town and a solid 60 on the highway. Thank you for holding your faith out as an example for others too, especially today...
Thank you for doing the right thing. Please pray for me and my family it’s great to there are decent people still out there that care for others .
Due to help partially by your channel but others as well, I got a street legal China bike that gets 90mpg. I've put 1700 miles on it since I got it earlier this year. I'm 1/3 of the way for it paying for itself in gas savings alone, 1/2 way there for when I sell it. And it's still fun
Do you have a link to the one you got by chance? My wife and I are looking for something like you are describing.
@@rbash1985 hit the 3 dots to the right of ryandude2448 post then click on
[reply] and post your question. That will notify the guy that someone has commented to his post; if he has notifications turned on.
LOL that's the most inconvenient hundred and thirty something miles ever but the video was very amusing thank you Sean and team!! 😊
Why was it inconvenient? Other than the very last section which was just to test the actual range. In reality you would plug in while you stopped for lunch, so it wouldn’t have been an issue at all.
@@Pugjamin speed and time 😊 by all means have fun lol 😊
@@Pugjamin The crabshack has fast chargers?
When low or out of juice, I wondered if you turned it off for 10 minutes and then turned it on again, if the battery would recover at all. "regular" batteries sometimes do. I also wonder if there is a front light off switch, and if not, can you install one? That ought to get you a mile or two. Next, can you damage your bike by emptying the batteries too much? I'm familiar with some rechargeable battery types you can use down to zero, and others that you should never take below 30%. Also, you said you didn't want to use brakes during your trip, but I thought that was where the regen power came from. Last input: Can you hook up a 2 buy 4 foot solar panel (or wind generator??) while tooling down the road? It ought to help on sunny days.
To get regen, you must have the motor working. (advance throttle until motor engages and leave it there, and when the bike moves it will regenerate.)
17:08 Strip down a motorcycle trailer, add in a giant battery bank with a DC to DC converter, and add as many solar panels as you can physically fit over top of that. You won't be charging the bike while you ride, but couple that with your standard fast charging output, and you have an independent, tow behind power station. PROBLEM SOLVED.
I also forgot to mention there are adapters for that fast charger, to make it plug into Tesla style chargers.
The Sweet Baby Gang call out has made me even more a permanent fan. Can we please get a video of you guys teaching Matt to ride a motorcycle??
Yeah that would be a great idea
Hey love your vids! Can I ask….in this video, what boots are you wearing??
Yeah try engaging the front break while you're trying to charge it up with the back wheel usually up and gauge the brakes to start the region part
sean: not only I'm saving money, but also saving the environment
*cue the montage of sean savng the environment
it's an amazing idea, you buy an electric vehicle and then tow it around on your diesel-powered truck to recharge it, brilliant idea we should all do that lol. but seriously thanks for the show, Sean. just one more thing is that grey we can see in your beard old friend lol.
its actually stupid, there is no free energy in this world, regen slows you down because thats how it makes the energy, transform from rotational to fill the battery
tldr, the van will use much more many times more fuel than what it'll cost to refill, the bike will provide resistance to the van
Towing a bike using regen to charge it would increase the power needed by the car and increase fuel consumption. So not free, but depending on prices of the dufferent energy types could be cheaper.
And diesel hybrids have probably been a thing for some time. Remember a Mercedes diesel hybrid a few years back.
12:13
Hate to be the bearer of bad news here but most modern train locomotives are diesel electric hybrids. The largest dump truck in the world the Belaz 75710 is also a diesel electric hybrid.
This field is so exciting! What is going to become of electric motorcycles as the batteries get better and better?
And what become off the battery has reached the end of it serviceable life what's the "green option"?
@@Johnketes54 get a rebuilt battery
I wouldn’t hold your breath lmao😅
I'd consider a trike with the new technology.
@@Johnketes54 🎯
I like that you don't just favor gas bikes, those are cool, but I always enjoy seeing what e bikes are out there
Glad you like them!
9:57 Regen seems to only be regen braking, but I still appreciate your Ferris Bueler attempted regen tow.
There is passive regen in cars but for electric boards bikes and motorcycles it’s usually active regen requiring braking input, there are probably some that do it passively but it’s much more rare
This video is dope 👍🔥
Probably one of the best Zero reviews out there lol unbiased opinions are priceless, the only real question is… are you going to give it away????!?!?!?!!
Get an idiot to ride a bike he knows nothing about and that's the best review ever? XD
I cannot agree. He started off in total ignorance, did no homework and learnt some stuff through trial and error. He still has a lot to learn!
So that would be the unbiased opinion, if he did absolutely all the homework then he’d have a biased opinion. So what he didn’t fully know about the brake regen, he did a review that no one has done. A past warranty battery that he took to 0% twice, testing whether you can ride and charge, and giving his unfiltered opinion based off of his overall motorcycle knowledge. I own a Zero and wouldn’t dare taking it past 20% and mine is a ‘22. I’m biased to zero of course, so IN MY OPINION, it was the best review I’ve seen to date. Not just a guy riding it and telling us how Torquey it is, we get it, they’re quick as hell… saying this guy has a lot to learn just tells me you’re not subscribed to the channel… might wanna check it out lol
@@themikeali32 With respect, I think you're confusing the word 'bias' with the word 'knowledge'. More knowledge doesn't make you more biased. FWIW I've been riding electric motorcycles since 1998 and Zeroes since 2009, but I'm also the happy owner of 10 ICE bikes of all kinds!
I agree in that regard, the knowledge vs biased aspect. But I guess I’m speaking more to the fact of his delivery of content. Yes he could’ve gained some knowledge on the bike, I just happened to enjoy the fact that while I am biased and own one, he came from an unbiased and albeit less informed point of view… still tho this guy Sean is super knowledgeable. I knew nothing about bikes 3 years ago 🤷🏽♂️ now I can’t stop myself from trying to buy every bike I like
So happy to have a new favorite channel
1985 Kawasaki 900 Eliminator. 0-60mph stock in less than 3sec. I had one and they go faster than 134mph. I had mine at 165 with more throttle to go on RT283.
Man seeing that almost makes me want to get one for my commute to work. Too bad the price is so high. Most are getting sold around 10-12k rn.
If you're in the US or Canada venom motorsports has some cheap Chinese bikes that are actually pretty nice.
You can get most under $3000
I cannot recommend Zeros enough. I use a Zero DS as a commuter and it's a dream.
@@minrvusnova2303 I hear ya. I'd love to get a zero myself those things are super nice. Still just a bit too out of my price range though. I'll have to give it a few years or so before they get cheap enough for me to consider it.
@@MrRoomba-UA-cam-Sucks Totally fair. Would the EV tax incentive not help you? Those Venoms he mentioned are good for short range for sure.
@@minrvusnova2303 You know honestly I have no idea how the EV tax system works. I'll probably look up some more info about it and who knows, maybe it'll be good enough to make me go electric. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That was interesting, can't wait to see the hydrogen bike reviews when they come through!
Hydrogen? Tell me more,We have buses and taxes in London England,I think Hydrogen is the way forward not all this electric crap maybe the Hybrids,40 miles to a charge and two hour's probably better than public transport
Large ebikes can't be charged and run at the same time because the BMS would go nuts trying to balance all of the batteries while they are simultaneously discharging from the other end. Some of us who want to do cross country ebike trips simply get a couple of spare batteries and charge them in a trailer separate from the bike. Most trailers have solar panels on them for charging on the go.
Charging: Looks like standard J1772 plug (5 pin). Bring along a Tesla adapter. You will need to turn on the "ignition" key because the bike will send a proximity signal to the charger to start charging. Your bike (EV) will also not move when this proximity is active (until the cable is removed from the "tank").