Had a math oopsie at 26:03 . The ratio of 15:140 reduces down to 28:3, not 28:5. This makes the math become 3*(8/3) = 8. That means 8 wood to 28 clothes, and when compared to furniture we get a comparison of 8 wood to 24 furniture. Clothes still end up on top, but by a smaller margin. This means my principle is still correct, but it's not as extreme as it might appear. Sorry for that mistake. I'll be sure to get a math-oriented person to check my numbers next time.
I'm pretty sure that's still wrong. 28:3 is a better ratio than 28:5 but the relative amount of wood went up? 8 wood is actually more than the amount of tools being used. Also there's another mistake originally, which is what got me to go into the comments to see if somebody had fixed it. Your amount of wood per clothes is barely less than your amount of tools per clothes, despite wood turning into more than double the amount of tools. I don't know where 3*(8/5) comes from, but it should just be 5*3/8. Or, since the ratio was 3 tools per 28 clothes, 3*3/8. For an actual ratio of 1.125 wood for 28 clothes.
Meh, to be honest, I don't care too much about the SPECIFIC math, since I'm not too good at math (perhaps demonstrated by the bad math I used LUL). The point of the section is to demonstrate how raw materials are used more sparingly when they're buried deeper in a supply chain, and that certain industries work better than others for this purpose. I'll leave it to more mathematically minded individuals to figure out the specific numbers.
Subsistence Buildings are the largest producers of wood, so the more you industrialize, the lower the wood supply gets. Wood is also used by all types of construction methods, either directly or through consumption of tools and will thus be the most limiting factor, as demand only increases while supply only gets lower, as 20 logging camps will never be able to produce anywhere close as much wood as 50'000 subsistence buildings.
That's... insane. It took centuries upon centuries to deforest Europe from the early Iron Age, and only a few generations to do that in most of the continental United States thanks to industrial tools. The horrid lack of industrialization must be a driving factor to Russia being such a wood kingpin; resource nodes plus miserable serfs.
This is good to know. Although I did know that, I hadn't thought about how much it can impact wood numbers. At the same time, I'm not sure if that's how that works because wouldn't that mean that wood would be at its cheapest when I have no buildings at all?
Subsistence Farms and Orchards produce 0.5 wood each. Subsistence pastures produce 0.25. Logging camps produce 30/60/100 depending on use of Production Method. And while it is true that the 25 000 wood produced by 50 000 subsistence farms exceeds the 600/1 200/2 000 wood produced by 20 logging camps this is not a fair comparison as not even all of China has 50 000 arable land and there are single provinces with capacity for more than 20 logging camps. It takes 833/417/250 logging camps to replace the wood production of 50 000 subsistence farms without throughput modifiers while the first one is pretty high the third is not unreasonable to approach as several states. If there actually was a starting country with 50 000 arable land it would probably be able to build 250 logging camps unless it was situated very strangely. It seems to me that this loss of wood production from urbanisation is offset fairly easily if you just do a decent job at advancing technologically as you do so. Not to mention you probably need more arable land than 50 000 to actually have that many subsistence farms as you probably want to use at least some of it for other agriculture, and perhaps more importantly, want to avoid actually keeping that many peasants around as it tanks your literacy, as well as standard of living, and perhaps also imposes a restriction on you for how many peasants you may allow your industries to hire.
I had quite a lot of success with taxless Qing. With no government admin buildings, I surprisingly began making more money after their immense operating costs were lifted. Additionally, I was no longer consuming all the wood in China just to make paper, and finally had a surplus of both. Also, the immediate effects of no longer collecting taxes raised my SOL across the board. This was only possible from minting with a large GDP, and I also had a strong investment pool at that point. Of course, the downside is you can no longer enact institutions since you have zero bureaucracy. But this only adds to the libertarian flavor.
You should consider playing consumption tax only then for this strategy. Remember that when you have 0% tax efficiency, it's not that your pops aren't paying taxes, it's that they pay them, and you don't get them. If you want to simulate a taxless society, go to consumption based taxation, and put on 0 consumption taxes.
6:30 This is actually pretty historically accurate, as the addition of livestock fertilization to the crop rotation in Britain was one of the biggest factors in the surplus of food that lead to the industrial revolution. Traditionally, half the fields would grow grain and half the fields would be fallow so that they'd recover, but when agriculture was enclosed (essentially privatized) people started added radishes and clover to the rotation instead of leaving it fallow. Radishes grow in the winter and could be fed to livestock, while clover adds fertility to the soil and could graze livestock. It was a feedback loop.
Totally agree that there needs to be more wood. I often find myself having to pick between Softwood and Hardwood production and having to build 1000 logging camps every time I want to expand an industry. So many industry's consume wood and I often find myself running out
Its actually crazy in the late game that I would have every single logging industry built and even expanded my colonies to only extract wood and I still didnt have enough. The entire amazon rainforest couldn't even sustain it
There's this mod where when you max out a resource industry in a province it places down another one with the same size but takes longer to build (max 5), I used this specifically for the wood shortage and I still didn't have enough
4B GDP as Qing in 1881, that's damn impressive. I can only manage to reach 1B GDP as Qing in the 1880s. I've never tried your strategy regarding the opium war (naval invade Gambia), I just postpone the opium war by banning opium late, while researching the millitary technologies. My strategy eventually lead to Britain not declaring war on me, and I need to wage another war with the great powers to get the recognition. Gonna try your method and see how it works. PS: If you plan to switch off from traditionalism as Qing, do prepare at least 3k+ surplus bureaucracy points. Traditionalism has a -25% modifier for pop bureaucracy cost. You lose the modifier if you switch off of it, which will result in negative bureaucracy points and perhaps lots of taxation wasted if you are not prepared for it.
The use of having GB declare war on you rather than having to declare some GP on your own was also my big takeaway from this, together with a sound plan of how to win the war.
@@Gnaaal In version 1.2 they changed GB starting infantry from line infantry (lv 2) to skirmish infantry (lv 3), and thus it seems that GB is more likely to declare war. Since GB starting infantry is more powerful, having GB declare war early might be a bad idea now, since you can't hold off their naval invasions.
I've played through 60 years (so far) as France, and I definitely get the chain for electricity, and you're absolutely right. It doesn't even take that long to develop a feel for it, since the chain is logical.
Fantastic video. I'd go even a little further with regards to gold reserves being bad to debt being good. Sustainable debt, that is. Except for very small economies in the early game, interest payments are an easy expense to swallow for the added benefit of getting more construction, bureaucracy, or military might, but especially construction (which should be everyone's focus at any stage of the game). As long as you keep building, the extra minting income from GDP growth outstrips interest payments, while simultaneously increasing your credit limit, making the same number of pounds equal a smaller portion of the bar. Of course, you don't want to let it get too far down lest you fall into a debt spiral towards default, so I like to stay in the second quarter (25%-50% of credit limit) of the red bar. Maintaining that is often as simple as alternating taxes between two tiers based on the direction you want the red bar to move, but the more nuanced approach is to have an idea of how to move spending habits around to shift the weekly budget balance up or down over the course of a couple months or so. It sounds complicated, but it's actually pretty intuitive once you get the hang of it. Bonus points for this being precisely what governments all over the world do, maintaining permanent debt that is measured using the debt-to-GDP ratio (which is precisely how the red bar works in Vicky 3, since credit limit is determined by your country's GDP). They even have a fancy term for the interest payments so that it doesn't sound like such a dirty thing: "Debt servicing".
I completely agree with you, except for one little problem: diplomacy. When you declare a diplomatic play on someone, part of their confidence calculation is affected by YOUR debt. That means if you have debt, they'll be less likely to back down. Obviously, if you don't want your opponent to back down, maybe this can be a good thing, but usually I prefer nations backing down since I like to just puppet everyone constantly. Other than that though, you are correct that being a little in debt in return for higher growth is almost always worth it.
@@Tarkusarkusar That's a good consideration, if that's what you're going for. I typically find it a bigger problem that people I *WANT* to fight so I can take more war goals (knocking them down so I can puppet them in the next war) back down every dang time. Sometimes countries that are completely outclassed will fight you anyway, in what very much feels like random chance, but usually not. So, any difference in likeliness to back down must be marginal if these are the results I've gotten not knowing about a debt variable.
I am tempted to start working on a mod aiming to rebalance the relative consumption and production of goods to more realistic values. Wood especially is a much scarcer resource in Victoria 3 than in real life, it seems.
And Fish, surprisingly. It's neither immediately obvious nor a real issue because of goods substitutions, but fishing wharves have surprisingly low caps. Like with oil, this isn't really a consumption issue so much as it is a supply issue caused by Paradox and other modders continued insistence on using data of known/accessible reserves/supply/arable land within the timespan of the game- which is total nonsense. So for instance, you hear people talk all the time about how we only have 20 years or so of proven oil reserves left- which is true in a technical sense. Oil companies don't endlessly look for new oil reserves, they look for what they need to meet current demand, and then enough to meet projected demand about 20 years out, as doing some kind of endless rush for more oil beyond that point makes no financial sense. So we are actually continually finding new oil reserves all the time at a fairly sedate pace. What's more, not all resources are created equally. Some are low quality, hard to access, or are otherwise unprofitable under current market conditions for some reason. Plus, people always beeline for whatever deposits/land/fishing spots/whatever that produce the most with the least effort first, so sometimes the amount of 'arable land' or 'oil reserves' available are really just the amount _immediately_ available. But the thing is, demand drives development of less bountiful and harder to access resources, as well as rapidly drives the technology to use them. Going back to oil, we have shale oil which is harder to access than crude. And it wasn't until recently that we developed the technology to really start making use of it. The thing that nobody mentions is that we had the capacity to create that technology since the late 1800s, it just wasn't worth it because we had all these large, easily extracted deposits of crude. So while China in-game has very little oil, it actually has a ton of shale oil that they could have developed had market-conditions driven the development, which they are now. This pisses me off, because mods like 'Realistic Arable Land' model their resource allotments based on historical population data- when arable land caps only capped population numbers in places like Europe that had an extensive history of agricultural development that had already developed all the marginal land. This is why the Midwest US caused such massive migration numbers, you had all this land perfect for agriculture that had been inhabited by _nomadic people that didn't do much farming_ so it was relatively undeveloped. Brazil, however, has a ton of land that would otherwise be suitable for agricultural development, if it weren't jungle. But the thing is, people can clear jungle, and if market conditions make it profitable they totally will. This problem extends to a lot of other areas that had relatively large amounts of land suitable for farming that wasn't developed because market conditions were unsuitable. But if you _made_ market conditions suitable, say, by rapidly industrializing and liberalizing the associated nations, then those resources most certainly would have been used. TLDR: there are a lot resource caps that are too low for absolutely no reason at all. Wood, Fishing Wharves, and oil are at the top of that list.
I got crazy lucky in my Qing game I started a week ago. Got Agrarianism, abolish serfdom, and lessee fair to pass in one tick. The latter passed with 4%. My investment pool is so high I can't build fast enough to drain it. I currently have 450 million in the pool with 3000 construction. I am working on getting more resources to up the construction more (currently out of led for glass). Pretty nuts how strong my economy is I need to start stealing people into my customs union just to get more consumption.
3k construction isn't anything special, when you reach around 10x that is usually the point where you start running out of resources to use or pops to employ even though you own a large part of the world and every rgo besides arable land is built up already ;)
While true, the overview in the game marks land taxes as part of the poll taxes section of the overview, which makes them more or less the same. Regardless, land and poll taxes are pretty irrelevant in terms of their contribution to any mid or late game economy
The game actually separates between Land Tax only on peasants and a Per Capita Tax on everyone else. Although interestingly, the Land Taxes are present in both the Land and Per Capita Taxation Laws, while the Per Capita Tax is only present in the Per Capita Taxation Law. And I guess the sum of them make up the Poll Taxes you find in the revenue tab.
The investment pool works like a dividend tax with extra steps. If you're able to get rid of Serfdom in 1836 anyways you could enable the export focus for grains, do Corn Laws and enact Laissez-faire directly after. Overall it's kinda like having proportional or graduated taxation from day 1 but with capitalists paying for capitalist buildings. It's the most powerful opener in Victoria 3, period.
When I play as Qing, I managed to make a place where the average standard of living was 7 and still have 5 billion gdp, there was no middle class and the top 0.02% held all the money
Important note to make in case it doesn't get addressed before the video ends: Farms are the only buildings that DO NOT generate jobs. Each farm takes 5000 workers but removes a subsistence farm that also employs 5000 workers. China has so much pop that you'll never employ them all so those subsistence farms will always have people working them.
little tip sometimes if you have some authority that isn't enough to be spent on anything, you can momentarily increase government wages for the authority boost, spend it, and then lower the wages back, putting your authority in slight negative but allowing you to get away with one more consumption tax or something
I like to thank you for the guides as it improved a better understanding of vic 3 for me. May I request if there's any plans for a Japan guide? I find it interesting for it's unique situation they found themselves in Vic 3 and I do believe it's a difficult campaign to do tbh or maybe I'm just inferior lol Edit: My wish has been granted BANZAI
Thanks - this was very useful. One thing I noticed that I wanted to ask a follow up on: I seem to get the early game loop working fine but sometime around 1870ish i have a big crash and I cant quite figure it out - is it just me being greedy on construction sector?
It's possible that you're overzealous on construction zones, but it might also be that you're prioritizing industries which don't grow with tech. If you build industries that have lots of production methods, then you can continually upgrade them through new methods, so long as you have the materials for it. If you have a hyper-agrarian economy, it can end up crashing somewhat because you can't keep up with the gains being made by other powers, who could be stealing away your resources through trade. If your budget is doing down the drain though, it could be because you have too much construction, or there have been price shifts in the goods you're producing.
@@Tarkusarkusar yea the price shift is also surprising. as Qing I had a huge economy and then randomly in the 1890s it started crashing and it took a bit to realize its a combo of exports declining and then my subsidies to the rail industry being way too costly. I really wish they had slightly better tool tips about why there is a Great Depression style economic decline all of the sudden
I usually rush lazie-fair and let the private sector handle the gdp building while I focus on infrastructure that wouldn't work for china in particular I think, but it works really well for any European country
I tried, I only go Laissez Faire for the extra company, then switch back to interventionalism because China requires you to mass build one product at a time to have a linear supply chain and prevent a major crash of a goods shortage, Laissez Faire also prevents subsidizing buildings which I use specifically to keep my market up because without them, the money just piles up in the treasury and my buildings remain at 15% staff due to over production but will go to max with subsidizing
I got all achievements bar the Indian states one and my go to economy strat is building 1 of each building per tile and have it on auto expand and just upgrade them when new tech is researched. This lets me focus on conquering my neighbours to snowball out of control then bankroll the other GP to look the other way. Nations with obligations can't attack you. And with 500 of the strongest military playing hungry hungry hippo. Nothing can stop u aside from the occasional uprising.
Dividends technically aren't taxed (until proportional taxation), but they contribute to the investment pool, so you're still getting money out of them.
When it comes to subsidizeing railroads it may not always be the best thing. I played as Argentina and had so few pops that the only way to both have coal and infrastructure enough to move the coal to other places was to not subsidize railoads so that the railroad didn't hire all the workers from the coal mines. It's the only time I ever skipped subsidizing the railroads and it felt so weird. After a few years of "greener gras" and normal population growth as well as some migrations from Europe, I were able to go back to "normal" again.
That's just a workaround for resolving a previous error then. The error being building railroads where you shouldn't have. I do this error occasionally as well when I build up new low pop colonies, e.g. trying to just immediately get all the gold/sulfur etc from a new colony, and adding on sufficient railroads, but without checking the current amount of pops.
@@Gnaaal the problem was to few people. Even before I build coalmines they had low market acces so building the mine did basically nothing. So building a railroad increased the SOL ba increasing the market acces, but also lowered the amount of coal in the market. So after subsidising rail for a while I stopped untill the population were a bit higher. It required a lot of micro. Might not be as hard now with newer updates but it was the only way at the moment.
The thing about China though is you NEVER run low on pops, its also why trying to keep the SoL up is so hard due to intial high rates of unemployment, some areas you can just spam agriculture, industry with subsidies and the only issue is qualifications (which is an easy fix by the 60s if you build universities and manage to get a schooling law)
For me Transportation, have to be locked in the state, in that case can be extremely more easy to see the price and know with the building is make money, "u need to spawn railways in the beginning of the game" but that how work in the real world, to make a net of railway take decades ... Electricity can be land locked, because that how work at the time
I hope they will eventualy add the ability to plant forests in exchange for limiting space for agriculture. Was playing Qing for the hegemony 50% population achievment whilst also trying to get the best economy and wood was also the only real problem. I was constantly conquering more land but with this games war mechanics I hate fighting. Also after getting to certain size majors like russia would rather back down even though they were doing spectacular for how Russia usualy does never allowing me to puppet them.
I saw your video about that, lol. It's a pretty good strat, although I don't like laissez-faire as much as interventionism generally speaking. Letting the investment pool work on every building means I don't have to micromanage my build order as much.
Fr, atm you literally can’t do the opening he does, force recognition does not exist anymore, the colonies are basically worthless warscore wise and britain will roll over china’s irregulars within like a month from the wars start, you practically are forced to either lose the opium war or wait until you can upgrade to line infantry which will cause it to be a very tight squeeze to actually fit in 5 years of peace with opium banned, as well as tanking the economy because it’s practically impossible to make up the gun deficit before going too far into debt. Really atm china is just sad to play, you just have to sit there and wait for the economy to not complete garbage while making no money because of bureaucracy always being in a deficit and sucking up any taxes, then the small reserve you have will be melted by wars with Russia because they will go out of their way to demand demand war reps as primary to any of the cores they get on you, refusing any peace in your favour even if 3 million+ of their pops die because you have to occupy nearly the entire country to put them in negative warscore, it’s absurd. If you give into them you lose you gold mine provinces so you lose the best source of income and pretty much go broke. The whole game is just teetering on bankruptcy, and apparently people don’t play it cause the advice people do give on it is way outta date.
I think Paradox should amplify the tech tree so that as you progress you unlock innovations to replant trees for logging, or something similar for the other vital resources so that we don’t expend all these things so easily. Granted don’t know how you’d do it for things like iron, you could add in another metal that you can throw into the mix that is renewable, something like tin or zinc. Tl;dr expand the techs or resources so that we don’t bitch late game that shits running out.
I don't know why but I have an issue with unemployment. Even though I build mass farms/pastures I still have about 40m unemployment. (Still have a few subsistence farms but im working on it) Any tips?
They're probably in out Manchuria, The west ir mongolia, people there have incredibly low qualifications and almost no industry or agriculture so finding a job is hard, this may alos slightly apply to the main areas. Also you may have crashed your economy where everything is worthless due to a surplus so buildings aren't making money and thus can't employ more people (basically covid America)
Unfortunately it seems that fighting Britain is much harder now. Naval invading any of their colonies gives very little or no war score and when they invade your capital they can never be pushed off of it. I find it’s much easier now to wait til Britain is distracted in a major war and then ban opium.
Your diagrams help a lot but it'd be much clearer if you labeled or circled the good/service you're describing as you're describing it (e.g circling Coal Mines as you mention them, then Tool workshops, etc.), otherwise I find my eyes jumping to find the right thing you're talking about to keep up, and even as someone who plays a lot of Anno it's a little overwhelming. Great video tho
I have quite a few hours in Vicky 3 but this was still very helpful! Great stuff. I have 2 points. 1. For Subsidies I agree that for the most part they should be used very sparingly. I do however almost always subsidize my arms and munitions industries. Those are difficult to keep subsidized since the only consumer is the government. I figure its a pay for it now and have a stockpile in the event I need to use them later. 2. How come motor industries are never profitable? This gets my noggin joggin everytime. I can have very expensive motors but still underperforming motors. Even in my current campaign where steel is cheap.
Thought my edible hit too hard, but at 18:52 you say something, then repeat the exact same thing like 10 seconds later. I thought I was losing my mind.
The throughput does cap, that's true, but a level placed into a level-99 tool factory is going to make more tools than placing a new lvl 1 toolshop in Nowhere, Tibet, which would be starting with none of that modifier. If you have 5 million people to create jobs for, why *not* a lvl 200 toolshop?
@@Alkex0For Qing, I find it easier to somewhat spread the jobs out due to a massive population and it being scattered, though I see your point, which is why I lvl 30 textiles in each province with over 20 million people
I am very surprise with your run!!! Because my run with qing always end with a surplus of pop around 2.0 bilion and i cant effort all the consumer goods and all the pops became radical even with tax very low 😢😢
Please do a Meji restoration Japan run. I’ve almost exclusively been playing Japan trying to learn the game and none of the guides are up to date (aka after 1.1)
How do you balance the negative profitability of mass producing a consumer good? Can you spam out textiles in this case because Qing just has a massive population and the sell orders will continue to increase? For example… if you have -1000 clothes and you build textile industries which pump out 2000 more doesn’t that just crash your industry from negative profitability? Do you then become export reliant to maintain profitability?
Qing has issues with qualifications but yeah you can just spam textiles due to their profitability and the demand is freakishly high (on one playthrough I had over a 1500 textile mils and still had a -9000 deficit)
Good video, though I wonder if it’s slightly spoiling the fun of the game. I had a great time playing and failing as Japan. Learning through mistakes is fun IMO.
This is a reasonable point. In a way, breaking the game down into its mathematics like this and playing super optimally can be less fun, but I also ignored all the other aspects of the game like diplomacy and war (which unfortunately, are rather lackluster). To me though, knowing the depths of the game makes it more fun.
@@Tarkusarkusar 👍 I like knowing how things work to. One thing I'd like to know in detail is convoys, I think this is mainly a problem with the UI, but how do I find out how many convoys I have and where they are used. This also ties into naval invasions, why am I getting attrition in Indonesia, why are my naval invasions failing. Keep making the videos, there's plenty of topics to cover.
I know I'm rather late to the video, but for the Vic3 economy, I'm having a problem understanding how to expand when all the pop's needs are met. I know that the profitability of industries doesn't necessarily go down if the needs are met or the good is in excess.
Typically the profitability of my non-rgo industries will always spike while reaching the last production techs, only to then dwindle down to 10 or so once every resource is used and wood and iron etc become expensive because there simply isn't any way to get more. Pops remain with high SoL though. There isn't much more to do building wise at that point, other than reverting recipes that use the expensive resources only to decrease labor.
Krakow is, in my opinion, one of the best nations to use to learn. The protection that Austria brings as well as your ability to go into any direction from, returning to monarchy, Capitalist paradise, Union paradise, or A communist nation, its truly one of my favorits
Krakow would be really good, not just because Poland is a good goal, but dealing with the IRL concern Poland had in 1918, unifying the economy and infrastructure of Prussian, Russian, and Austrian colonial holdings, is especially fun, not to mention showing just how important fundamental mechanical game knowledge is to succeed, even from just a teeny little city-state.
My current greatest issue with the game is knowing what to export. Exporting makes money, but it comes at a cost of my pops becoming poorer from the higher price. As a result, I end up never exporting, only importing.
I mean if you get some good down to the -50% to -75% percent price range, that's probably a good you want to consider exporting. Especially if the buildings producing it have a 0,0 annual profitability per pop.
@@alexandererhard2516 That's fair, but most goods I get to 75% are things that end up being government expenditures or intermediary goods. If I export engines, I'm inadvertently screwing all of my factories that use them. Maybe I should just accept the price increase and make more 🤔
@@therealestsnake Hmm, I mostly try to have my goods in a similar price range if possible, because then the input and output goods of each building are also hopefully in a similar price range. Because usually a building with higher relative input goods prices and lower relative output goods prices is a barely profitable or unprofitable building.
@@therealestsnake But so far I haven't intentionally tried to vastly overproduce a good with the intention of selling it to other markets. But I guess it could be somewhat viable if you have some unique bonuses towards producing a certain good. For example Sweden with rather productive and (compared to population) large Iron deposits, or Qing due to getting a country unique +25% throughput on Silk.
Question for those who still play this game: Did the devs change the construction sector? I see that he somehow has 300+ construction by 1842 with positive government income. I am in the red with high taxes and less than 150. I am confused
i know this video is relatively old now but it annoyed me so: there are 2 types of poll taxes per capita and land tax they are added up in the budget screen but they are separate, per capita taxes are payed by everyone where as land taxes are only payed by peasants they are both flat per person rates and they both suck but they are different.
Not really anything of value. I had extra bureaucracy from trying to keep tax capacity high in my huge states, and then also just overbuilding it and not caring. Optimally, it's best to not overbuild bureaucracy but once you hit a few billion GDP, it no longer realistically matters.
@@Tarkusarkusar tried it today. At some point it shall give +10% to construction efficiency, but I didn’t notice this “increase”. But what I noticed is paper price. If I construct more paper factories to lower the paper price, the factories become less beneficial because it’s product is not expensive anymore. But if paper is expensive, you’ll receive more dividends tax, but also pay a lot more than usual from your pocket for expensive government goods. It’s better to balance this bureaucracy/paper thing. Btw bureaucracy slowly goes down because the population is constantly growing by itself, right?
this genre of isolationism and harsh tax for great qing is a bit old fashion for version 1.1.x. the newer way is that enacting laissez-faire, free trade/protectionism, high or very high taxation depending on the situation, only services and porcelain/tea tax consumption tax and use the excess authority to enact road maintenance and encourage industry. And the opium war is probably the easiest, ocuppy singapore and waiting for surrender will be fine. Imo, qing is invincible unless ai is playing.
I didn't do it in the video, but a new strategy you can do is to move your capital to somewhere off the coast (like Chongqing for example) and that way they take much longer to get to your capital.
i dont think that WE works in same way now. I tried several times, even if youre succsefull with UK africa in all cases, WE still counts pretty fast as logg as they are in your lands
I fucking love ur videos fam. Im 70 hours in and can barely understand that nerd general, ur diagrams helped me absolutely destroy after all 69 hours of getting rekt non stop. ❤ u daddy
Some tips Don't go absolutely insane with the construction, granted it's kinda hard due to an intial massive funding Qing's army relies less on quality but quantity, just spam as many divisions as possible (I delayed the opium wars just to get a multiple 220 division armies) Radicals are hard due to hiw many you start with and Qing's Sol rapidly decreasing due to opium prices, I try to mitigate this by making as many opium plantations as possible to make opium cheaper during the ban but radicalism is only solvable after the opium wars when your SoL can increase quickly
Actually you can declare a war on Portugal to drag the GB into the war and they will gather all land forces in Macau with your over 700 battalions standing with them. When your score is higher than them, they won't attack and you can take the GB's colonies to force the GB to surrrender and then use human wave to take the Macau. Portugal cannot hold it without GB.
It's a way for Qing to remove the Macau treaty port, get the payout from both GB and Portugal, grab many oversea colonies from Great Britain and Portugal and the recognition as a great power in 1839. Just declare the war in the beginning of the game in 1836 and you can get all of these in 1839.
18:53 "We don't want to waste raw materials, because they are the least plentiful of any good..." 19:08 "We don't want to waste raw materials, because they are the least plentiful of any good..." Script or editing hiccup?
Not reeeeeaaaallly, Free trade would be far far cheaper than running a bureaucratic mess thousands of miles away from home. But I do get his point about how nations should have ways to improve internal production of things like wood. Autarky may be dumb, but it shouldn't be impossible
I wish the diagrams at the beginning were more clear. I'm sure there are better ways to do it, for example a tree format with colour coding. Main issue is there's just too much information on screen at once and it's hard to tell the sections apart. Nice guide though, it definitely helped reinforce what I already thought is happening in the game. The bubble diagram was great though!
Wood is so bad, that in Brazil states of Para and Amazonas there is nothing, and is biggest than some countries with 2.5km (today, in 19th was bigger), with the Amazon Rain Forest, and there is no wood, how? Same for congo, they need to put some tech that increase the max wood in the building, like reforestation, efficient on the output
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
Had a math oopsie at 26:03 . The ratio of 15:140 reduces down to 28:3, not 28:5. This makes the math become 3*(8/3) = 8. That means 8 wood to 28 clothes, and when compared to furniture we get a comparison of 8 wood to 24 furniture. Clothes still end up on top, but by a smaller margin. This means my principle is still correct, but it's not as extreme as it might appear. Sorry for that mistake. I'll be sure to get a math-oriented person to check my numbers next time.
I'm pretty sure that's still wrong. 28:3 is a better ratio than 28:5 but the relative amount of wood went up? 8 wood is actually more than the amount of tools being used.
Also there's another mistake originally, which is what got me to go into the comments to see if somebody had fixed it. Your amount of wood per clothes is barely less than your amount of tools per clothes, despite wood turning into more than double the amount of tools. I don't know where 3*(8/5) comes from, but it should just be 5*3/8. Or, since the ratio was 3 tools per 28 clothes, 3*3/8. For an actual ratio of 1.125 wood for 28 clothes.
do you know spanish
Meh, to be honest, I don't care too much about the SPECIFIC math, since I'm not too good at math (perhaps demonstrated by the bad math I used LUL). The point of the section is to demonstrate how raw materials are used more sparingly when they're buried deeper in a supply chain, and that certain industries work better than others for this purpose. I'll leave it to more mathematically minded individuals to figure out the specific numbers.
Yes, but not perfect Spanish. I'm relatively fluent.
@@Tarkusarkusar I m fluent in English and trying to learn Spanish, do you have any tips
Subsistence Buildings are the largest producers of wood, so the more you industrialize, the lower the wood supply gets. Wood is also used by all types of construction methods, either directly or through consumption of tools and will thus be the most limiting factor, as demand only increases while supply only gets lower, as 20 logging camps will never be able to produce anywhere close as much wood as 50'000 subsistence buildings.
That's... insane. It took centuries upon centuries to deforest Europe from the early Iron Age, and only a few generations to do that in most of the continental United States thanks to industrial tools. The horrid lack of industrialization must be a driving factor to Russia being such a wood kingpin; resource nodes plus miserable serfs.
This is good to know. Although I did know that, I hadn't thought about how much it can impact wood numbers. At the same time, I'm not sure if that's how that works because wouldn't that mean that wood would be at its cheapest when I have no buildings at all?
@@Tarkusarkusar Maybe if no buildings except lumber camps
Subsistence Farms and Orchards produce 0.5 wood each. Subsistence pastures produce 0.25.
Logging camps produce 30/60/100 depending on use of Production Method.
And while it is true that the 25 000 wood produced by 50 000 subsistence farms exceeds the 600/1 200/2 000 wood produced by 20 logging camps this is not a fair comparison as not even all of China has 50 000 arable land and there are single provinces with capacity for more than 20 logging camps.
It takes 833/417/250 logging camps to replace the wood production of 50 000 subsistence farms without throughput modifiers while the first one is pretty high the third is not unreasonable to approach as several states. If there actually was a starting country with 50 000 arable land it would probably be able to build 250 logging camps unless it was situated very strangely. It seems to me that this loss of wood production from urbanisation is offset fairly easily if you just do a decent job at advancing technologically as you do so.
Not to mention you probably need more arable land than 50 000 to actually have that many subsistence farms as you probably want to use at least some of it for other agriculture, and perhaps more importantly, want to avoid actually keeping that many peasants around as it tanks your literacy, as well as standard of living, and perhaps also imposes a restriction on you for how many peasants you may allow your industries to hire.
@@Tarkusarkusar no, it is when you've got no plantations but plenty of lumberjacks
I had quite a lot of success with taxless Qing. With no government admin buildings, I surprisingly began making more money after their immense operating costs were lifted. Additionally, I was no longer consuming all the wood in China just to make paper, and finally had a surplus of both. Also, the immediate effects of no longer collecting taxes raised my SOL across the board. This was only possible from minting with a large GDP, and I also had a strong investment pool at that point. Of course, the downside is you can no longer enact institutions since you have zero bureaucracy. But this only adds to the libertarian flavor.
You should consider playing consumption tax only then for this strategy. Remember that when you have 0% tax efficiency, it's not that your pops aren't paying taxes, it's that they pay them, and you don't get them. If you want to simulate a taxless society, go to consumption based taxation, and put on 0 consumption taxes.
@@Tarkusarkusar I forgot to mention, that I did that first
6:30 This is actually pretty historically accurate, as the addition of livestock fertilization to the crop rotation in Britain was one of the biggest factors in the surplus of food that lead to the industrial revolution. Traditionally, half the fields would grow grain and half the fields would be fallow so that they'd recover, but when agriculture was enclosed (essentially privatized) people started added radishes and clover to the rotation instead of leaving it fallow. Radishes grow in the winter and could be fed to livestock, while clover adds fertility to the soil and could graze livestock. It was a feedback loop.
This is the best economy guide for V3 I've seen so far. I have 150 hours in and I learned things I did not realize before.
Totally agree that there needs to be more wood. I often find myself having to pick between Softwood and Hardwood production and having to build 1000 logging camps every time I want to expand an industry. So many industry's consume wood and I often find myself running out
I play with extra resource mods SOLELY because of how little wood there is
Its actually crazy in the late game that I would have every single logging industry built and even expanded my colonies to only extract wood and I still didnt have enough. The entire amazon rainforest couldn't even sustain it
There's this mod where when you max out a resource industry in a province it places down another one with the same size but takes longer to build (max 5), I used this specifically for the wood shortage and I still didn't have enough
Your commentary on the wood market is perfect. Lol didn't notice until you pointed out, but now I can't unsee it.
4B GDP as Qing in 1881, that's damn impressive.
I can only manage to reach 1B GDP as Qing in the 1880s.
I've never tried your strategy regarding the opium war (naval invade Gambia), I just postpone the opium war by banning opium late, while researching the millitary technologies.
My strategy eventually lead to Britain not declaring war on me, and I need to wage another war with the great powers to get the recognition. Gonna try your method and see how it works.
PS: If you plan to switch off from traditionalism as Qing, do prepare at least 3k+ surplus bureaucracy points. Traditionalism has a -25% modifier for pop bureaucracy cost. You lose the modifier if you switch off of it, which will result in negative bureaucracy points and perhaps lots of taxation wasted if you are not prepared for it.
The use of having GB declare war on you rather than having to declare some GP on your own was also my big takeaway from this, together with a sound plan of how to win the war.
@@Gnaaal In version 1.2 they changed GB starting infantry from line infantry (lv 2) to skirmish infantry (lv 3), and thus it seems that GB is more likely to declare war.
Since GB starting infantry is more powerful, having GB declare war early might be a bad idea now, since you can't hold off their naval invasions.
I've learned more from this Video than all the other economy guides combined, thank you!
hearing those first few notes from the Endless Legend Soundtrack gave me nostalgic flashbacks to playing that game
learned a lot about the game. Thanks Tark!
yeah i never been happy with the lack of wood in my playthroughs. Thanks for the economic lessons today.
I've played through 60 years (so far) as France, and I definitely get the chain for electricity, and you're absolutely right. It doesn't even take that long to develop a feel for it, since the chain is logical.
Fantastic video. I'd go even a little further with regards to gold reserves being bad to debt being good. Sustainable debt, that is. Except for very small economies in the early game, interest payments are an easy expense to swallow for the added benefit of getting more construction, bureaucracy, or military might, but especially construction (which should be everyone's focus at any stage of the game). As long as you keep building, the extra minting income from GDP growth outstrips interest payments, while simultaneously increasing your credit limit, making the same number of pounds equal a smaller portion of the bar. Of course, you don't want to let it get too far down lest you fall into a debt spiral towards default, so I like to stay in the second quarter (25%-50% of credit limit) of the red bar. Maintaining that is often as simple as alternating taxes between two tiers based on the direction you want the red bar to move, but the more nuanced approach is to have an idea of how to move spending habits around to shift the weekly budget balance up or down over the course of a couple months or so. It sounds complicated, but it's actually pretty intuitive once you get the hang of it.
Bonus points for this being precisely what governments all over the world do, maintaining permanent debt that is measured using the debt-to-GDP ratio (which is precisely how the red bar works in Vicky 3, since credit limit is determined by your country's GDP). They even have a fancy term for the interest payments so that it doesn't sound like such a dirty thing: "Debt servicing".
I completely agree with you, except for one little problem: diplomacy. When you declare a diplomatic play on someone, part of their confidence calculation is affected by YOUR debt. That means if you have debt, they'll be less likely to back down. Obviously, if you don't want your opponent to back down, maybe this can be a good thing, but usually I prefer nations backing down since I like to just puppet everyone constantly.
Other than that though, you are correct that being a little in debt in return for higher growth is almost always worth it.
@@Tarkusarkusar That's a good consideration, if that's what you're going for. I typically find it a bigger problem that people I *WANT* to fight so I can take more war goals (knocking them down so I can puppet them in the next war) back down every dang time. Sometimes countries that are completely outclassed will fight you anyway, in what very much feels like random chance, but usually not. So, any difference in likeliness to back down must be marginal if these are the results I've gotten not knowing about a debt variable.
I am tempted to start working on a mod aiming to rebalance the relative consumption and production of goods to more realistic values. Wood especially is a much scarcer resource in Victoria 3 than in real life, it seems.
And Fish, surprisingly. It's neither immediately obvious nor a real issue because of goods substitutions, but fishing wharves have surprisingly low caps. Like with oil, this isn't really a consumption issue so much as it is a supply issue caused by Paradox and other modders continued insistence on using data of known/accessible reserves/supply/arable land within the timespan of the game- which is total nonsense.
So for instance, you hear people talk all the time about how we only have 20 years or so of proven oil reserves left- which is true in a technical sense. Oil companies don't endlessly look for new oil reserves, they look for what they need to meet current demand, and then enough to meet projected demand about 20 years out, as doing some kind of endless rush for more oil beyond that point makes no financial sense. So we are actually continually finding new oil reserves all the time at a fairly sedate pace.
What's more, not all resources are created equally. Some are low quality, hard to access, or are otherwise unprofitable under current market conditions for some reason. Plus, people always beeline for whatever deposits/land/fishing spots/whatever that produce the most with the least effort first, so sometimes the amount of 'arable land' or 'oil reserves' available are really just the amount _immediately_ available. But the thing is, demand drives development of less bountiful and harder to access resources, as well as rapidly drives the technology to use them.
Going back to oil, we have shale oil which is harder to access than crude. And it wasn't until recently that we developed the technology to really start making use of it. The thing that nobody mentions is that we had the capacity to create that technology since the late 1800s, it just wasn't worth it because we had all these large, easily extracted deposits of crude. So while China in-game has very little oil, it actually has a ton of shale oil that they could have developed had market-conditions driven the development, which they are now.
This pisses me off, because mods like 'Realistic Arable Land' model their resource allotments based on historical population data- when arable land caps only capped population numbers in places like Europe that had an extensive history of agricultural development that had already developed all the marginal land. This is why the Midwest US caused such massive migration numbers, you had all this land perfect for agriculture that had been inhabited by _nomadic people that didn't do much farming_ so it was relatively undeveloped. Brazil, however, has a ton of land that would otherwise be suitable for agricultural development, if it weren't jungle. But the thing is, people can clear jungle, and if market conditions make it profitable they totally will. This problem extends to a lot of other areas that had relatively large amounts of land suitable for farming that wasn't developed because market conditions were unsuitable.
But if you _made_ market conditions suitable, say, by rapidly industrializing and liberalizing the associated nations, then those resources most certainly would have been used.
TLDR: there are a lot resource caps that are too low for absolutely no reason at all. Wood, Fishing Wharves, and oil are at the top of that list.
@@Jay2JayGaming Well thought out and I completely agree with most, if not all, of what you write.
@@Jay2JayGaming Completely agree! For some reason, most Paradox games have arbitrary limitations in some mechanics.
I got crazy lucky in my Qing game I started a week ago. Got Agrarianism, abolish serfdom, and lessee fair to pass in one tick. The latter passed with 4%. My investment pool is so high I can't build fast enough to drain it. I currently have 450 million in the pool with 3000 construction. I am working on getting more resources to up the construction more (currently out of led for glass). Pretty nuts how strong my economy is I need to start stealing people into my customs union just to get more consumption.
3k construction isn't anything special, when you reach around 10x that is usually the point where you start running out of resources to use or pops to employ even though you own a large part of the world and every rgo besides arable land is built up already ;)
@@Gnaaalnice flex I guess?
@@monikawasherelol for a reply to a video containing "gigachad", would you expect anything less?
Great video, thanks man!
Land taxes are not the same as poll tax in the game as land tax is only paid by peasants, not everyone.
While true, the overview in the game marks land taxes as part of the poll taxes section of the overview, which makes them more or less the same. Regardless, land and poll taxes are pretty irrelevant in terms of their contribution to any mid or late game economy
The game actually separates between Land Tax only on peasants and a Per Capita Tax on everyone else.
Although interestingly, the Land Taxes are present in both the Land and Per Capita Taxation Laws, while the Per Capita Tax is only present in the Per Capita Taxation Law.
And I guess the sum of them make up the Poll Taxes you find in the revenue tab.
The investment pool works like a dividend tax with extra steps.
If you're able to get rid of Serfdom in 1836 anyways you could enable the export focus for grains, do Corn Laws and enact Laissez-faire directly after.
Overall it's kinda like having proportional or graduated taxation from day 1 but with capitalists paying for capitalist buildings.
It's the most powerful opener in Victoria 3, period.
When I play as Qing, I managed to make a place where the average standard of living was 7 and still have 5 billion gdp, there was no middle class and the top 0.02% held all the money
HOW?! did you just not liberalise or did you create a plutocracy?
@@pilotpandashot I don't know, I just spammed mines, forges, and construction sectors
USA gameplay
Important note to make in case it doesn't get addressed before the video ends: Farms are the only buildings that DO NOT generate jobs. Each farm takes 5000 workers but removes a subsistence farm that also employs 5000 workers. China has so much pop that you'll never employ them all so those subsistence farms will always have people working them.
Fantastic walk-through, well thought out and delivered. Subscribed
Your Vic3 vids are so enthralling.
little tip
sometimes if you have some authority that isn't enough to be spent on anything, you can momentarily increase government wages for the authority boost, spend it, and then lower the wages back, putting your authority in slight negative
but allowing you to get away with one more consumption tax or something
You can do that but is 4k more income really worth it?
Plus, I'm taxing my own people. It's not like there isent a disadvantage to doing that.
@@catfacecat. ?. For Qina, any consumption tax is usually in the tens of thousands, some in the hundreds of thousands
I like to thank you for the guides as it improved a better understanding of vic 3 for me. May I request if there's any plans for a Japan guide? I find it interesting for it's unique situation they found themselves in Vic 3 and I do believe it's a difficult campaign to do tbh or maybe I'm just inferior lol
Edit: My wish has been granted BANZAI
That’s why I love the mod that adds fertilizer to wood camps for 50% more wood
I finish my minor in economics next month and this game is still insanely complicated to me, but your video helped a lot so thanks!
Thanks - this was very useful. One thing I noticed that I wanted to ask a follow up on: I seem to get the early game loop working fine but sometime around 1870ish i have a big crash and I cant quite figure it out - is it just me being greedy on construction sector?
Yeah my first 3 attempts as Japan was like that. Interest on debt is a killer. Switching to interventionism helps a lot with construction costs.
It's possible that you're overzealous on construction zones, but it might also be that you're prioritizing industries which don't grow with tech. If you build industries that have lots of production methods, then you can continually upgrade them through new methods, so long as you have the materials for it. If you have a hyper-agrarian economy, it can end up crashing somewhat because you can't keep up with the gains being made by other powers, who could be stealing away your resources through trade. If your budget is doing down the drain though, it could be because you have too much construction, or there have been price shifts in the goods you're producing.
@@Tarkusarkusar yea the price shift is also surprising. as Qing I had a huge economy and then randomly in the 1890s it started crashing and it took a bit to realize its a combo of exports declining and then my subsidies to the rail industry being way too costly.
I really wish they had slightly better tool tips about why there is a Great Depression style economic decline all of the sudden
The guide was great, but including mysic from the most underrated 4X game, Endless Legend, guaranteed a sub. Nice work
love these vids, this channel will explode soon im calling it :D
I usually rush lazie-fair and let the private sector handle the gdp building while I focus on infrastructure
that wouldn't work for china in particular I think, but it works really well for any European country
I tried, I only go Laissez Faire for the extra company, then switch back to interventionalism because China requires you to mass build one product at a time to have a linear supply chain and prevent a major crash of a goods shortage, Laissez Faire also prevents subsidizing buildings which I use specifically to keep my market up because without them, the money just piles up in the treasury and my buildings remain at 15% staff due to over production but will go to max with subsidizing
I got all achievements bar the Indian states one and my go to economy strat is building 1 of each building per tile and have it on auto expand and just upgrade them when new tech is researched. This lets me focus on conquering my neighbours to snowball out of control then bankroll the other GP to look the other way. Nations with obligations can't attack you. And with 500 of the strongest military playing hungry hungry hippo. Nothing can stop u aside from the occasional uprising.
@@tevanpinrut5303 honestly my way requires 0 micro and gets me a GDP over 1 billion with any nation I play.
Id like to see ultimate Chinese empire... I think its quite interesting to see just how far it will go
Amazing video again. Keep it up
Thanks!
Dividends technically aren't taxed (until proportional taxation), but they contribute to the investment pool, so you're still getting money out of them.
When it comes to subsidizeing railroads it may not always be the best thing. I played as Argentina and had so few pops that the only way to both have coal and infrastructure enough to move the coal to other places was to not subsidize railoads so that the railroad didn't hire all the workers from the coal mines. It's the only time I ever skipped subsidizing the railroads and it felt so weird. After a few years of "greener gras" and normal population growth as well as some migrations from Europe, I were able to go back to "normal" again.
That's just a workaround for resolving a previous error then. The error being building railroads where you shouldn't have. I do this error occasionally as well when I build up new low pop colonies, e.g. trying to just immediately get all the gold/sulfur etc from a new colony, and adding on sufficient railroads, but without checking the current amount of pops.
@@Gnaaal the problem was to few people. Even before I build coalmines they had low market acces so building the mine did basically nothing. So building a railroad increased the SOL ba increasing the market acces, but also lowered the amount of coal in the market. So after subsidising rail for a while I stopped untill the population were a bit higher. It required a lot of micro. Might not be as hard now with newer updates but it was the only way at the moment.
The thing about China though is you NEVER run low on pops, its also why trying to keep the SoL up is so hard due to intial high rates of unemployment, some areas you can just spam agriculture, industry with subsidies and the only issue is qualifications (which is an easy fix by the 60s if you build universities and manage to get a schooling law)
most underrated vic 3 player here
For me Transportation, have to be locked in the state, in that case can be extremely more easy to see the price and know with the building is make money, "u need to spawn railways in the beginning of the game" but that how work in the real world, to make a net of railway take decades ... Electricity can be land locked, because that how work at the time
Maybe one thing you should have mentioned in here as well: When/Where to use economy of scale?
would say a good rule of thumb is "does the province where I can scale it up even more have population to support it?"
I hope they will eventualy add the ability to plant forests in exchange for limiting space for agriculture. Was playing Qing for the hegemony 50% population achievment whilst also trying to get the best economy and wood was also the only real problem. I was constantly conquering more land but with this games war mechanics I hate fighting. Also after getting to certain size majors like russia would rather back down even though they were doing spectacular for how Russia usualy does never allowing me to puppet them.
Why didn't you do corn laws for Laissez Faire?
I saw your video about that, lol. It's a pretty good strat, although I don't like laissez-faire as much as interventionism generally speaking. Letting the investment pool work on every building means I don't have to micromanage my build order as much.
u should have mentioned corn laws, they let you get laissez-faire or interventionism by 1838
It's interesting how very different some details are a year of development later.
Fr, atm you literally can’t do the opening he does, force recognition does not exist anymore, the colonies are basically worthless warscore wise and britain will roll over china’s irregulars within like a month from the wars start, you practically are forced to either lose the opium war or wait until you can upgrade to line infantry which will cause it to be a very tight squeeze to actually fit in 5 years of peace with opium banned, as well as tanking the economy because it’s practically impossible to make up the gun deficit before going too far into debt.
Really atm china is just sad to play, you just have to sit there and wait for the economy to not complete garbage while making no money because of bureaucracy always being in a deficit and sucking up any taxes, then the small reserve you have will be melted by wars with Russia because they will go out of their way to demand demand war reps as primary to any of the cores they get on you, refusing any peace in your favour even if 3 million+ of their pops die because you have to occupy nearly the entire country to put them in negative warscore, it’s absurd. If you give into them you lose you gold mine provinces so you lose the best source of income and pretty much go broke. The whole game is just teetering on bankruptcy, and apparently people don’t play it cause the advice people do give on it is way outta date.
My biggest issue seems to be the timing. When do I start spamming Steel and Railways, when should I switch to rail transportation.
I think Paradox should amplify the tech tree so that as you progress you unlock innovations to replant trees for logging, or something similar for the other vital resources so that we don’t expend all these things so easily. Granted don’t know how you’d do it for things like iron, you could add in another metal that you can throw into the mix that is renewable, something like tin or zinc.
Tl;dr expand the techs or resources so that we don’t bitch late game that shits running out.
I don't know why but I have an issue with unemployment. Even though I build mass farms/pastures I still have about 40m unemployment. (Still have a few subsistence farms but im working on it)
Any tips?
They're probably in out Manchuria, The west ir mongolia, people there have incredibly low qualifications and almost no industry or agriculture so finding a job is hard, this may alos slightly apply to the main areas. Also you may have crashed your economy where everything is worthless due to a surplus so buildings aren't making money and thus can't employ more people (basically covid America)
Unfortunately it seems that fighting Britain is much harder now. Naval invading any of their colonies gives very little or no war score and when they invade your capital they can never be pushed off of it. I find it’s much easier now to wait til Britain is distracted in a major war and then ban opium.
Your diagrams help a lot but it'd be much clearer if you labeled or circled the good/service you're describing as you're describing it (e.g circling Coal Mines as you mention them, then Tool workshops, etc.), otherwise I find my eyes jumping to find the right thing you're talking about to keep up, and even as someone who plays a lot of Anno it's a little overwhelming.
Great video tho
Where will you get your rubber from isolationist qing campaign?
I have quite a few hours in Vicky 3 but this was still very helpful! Great stuff. I have 2 points.
1. For Subsidies I agree that for the most part they should be used very sparingly. I do however almost always subsidize my arms and munitions industries. Those are difficult to keep subsidized since the only consumer is the government. I figure its a pay for it now and have a stockpile in the event I need to use them later.
2. How come motor industries are never profitable? This gets my noggin joggin everytime. I can have very expensive motors but still underperforming motors. Even in my current campaign where steel is cheap.
Thought my edible hit too hard, but at 18:52 you say something, then repeat the exact same thing like 10 seconds later. I thought I was losing my mind.
Wonder how this would play now that Gambia strat doesn't work. Still a very good video
Question on the start up, how do I make Tibet stop throwing bodies at the british lines and sinking my war support in the opium war?
Subsidies seem to work best when buildings can't hire workers due to them not accepting competitive wages offered
24:03 Isn't expanding buildings past the economy of scale bonus terribly inefficient?
The throughput does cap, that's true, but a level placed into a level-99 tool factory is going to make more tools than placing a new lvl 1 toolshop in Nowhere, Tibet, which would be starting with none of that modifier. If you have 5 million people to create jobs for, why *not* a lvl 200 toolshop?
@@Alkex0For Qing, I find it easier to somewhat spread the jobs out due to a massive population and it being scattered, though I see your point, which is why I lvl 30 textiles in each province with over 20 million people
I am very surprise with your run!!! Because my run with qing always end with a surplus of pop around 2.0 bilion and i cant effort all the consumer goods and all the pops became radical even with tax very low 😢😢
Goddamn Tibet won’t stop attacking England after they invade plummeting my war support
With the 1.2 update you can directly annex Tibet from day 1 with a diplomatic play. Go for it.
how tf do u manage to not lose a shit ton of exhaustion points, i cant get them to accept the peace deal even with gambia, what am i missing?
Please do a Meji restoration Japan run. I’ve almost exclusively been playing Japan trying to learn the game and none of the guides are up to date (aka after 1.1)
How do you balance the negative profitability of mass producing a consumer good? Can you spam out textiles in this case because Qing just has a massive population and the sell orders will continue to increase? For example… if you have -1000 clothes and you build textile industries which pump out 2000 more doesn’t that just crash your industry from negative profitability? Do you then become export reliant to maintain profitability?
Qing has issues with qualifications but yeah you can just spam textiles due to their profitability and the demand is freakishly high (on one playthrough I had over a 1500 textile mils and still had a -9000 deficit)
Good video, though I wonder if it’s slightly spoiling the fun of the game. I had a great time playing and failing as Japan. Learning through mistakes is fun IMO.
This is a reasonable point. In a way, breaking the game down into its mathematics like this and playing super optimally can be less fun, but I also ignored all the other aspects of the game like diplomacy and war (which unfortunately, are rather lackluster). To me though, knowing the depths of the game makes it more fun.
@@Tarkusarkusar 👍 I like knowing how things work to. One thing I'd like to know in detail is convoys, I think this is mainly a problem with the UI, but how do I find out how many convoys I have and where they are used. This also ties into naval invasions, why am I getting attrition in Indonesia, why are my naval invasions failing.
Keep making the videos, there's plenty of topics to cover.
Hello, can u make a guide about art trading?
Can you do an East India Company video?
yes. I totally have this game. I also totally have a device capable of running this game.
I know I'm rather late to the video, but for the Vic3 economy, I'm having a problem understanding how to expand when all the pop's needs are met. I know that the profitability of industries doesn't necessarily go down if the needs are met or the good is in excess.
Typically the profitability of my non-rgo industries will always spike while reaching the last production techs, only to then dwindle down to 10 or so once every resource is used and wood and iron etc become expensive because there simply isn't any way to get more. Pops remain with high SoL though. There isn't much more to do building wise at that point, other than reverting recipes that use the expensive resources only to decrease labor.
13:00 arent land tax only payed by people on subsitance farms while the other pol tax is payed by everyone
You'd think Siberia would have potential for an near limitless supply of wood-just need to settle it with your massive population first.
I love Your videos.
Magnetising to see.
Please make Poland/Cracow video!
Take care
Krakow is, in my opinion, one of the best nations to use to learn. The protection that Austria brings as well as your ability to go into any direction from, returning to monarchy, Capitalist paradise, Union paradise, or A communist nation, its truly one of my favorits
Krakow would be really good, not just because Poland is a good goal, but dealing with the IRL concern Poland had in 1918, unifying the economy and infrastructure of Prussian, Russian, and Austrian colonial holdings, is especially fun, not to mention showing just how important fundamental mechanical game knowledge is to succeed, even from just a teeny little city-state.
Recreating PLC could be great fun 😊
Wish they didn’t nerf the Intebsive Agriculture loop. PDX just can’t make a good AI so they have to nerf the most basic loop of any economy
To be fair if you look at historic deforestation rates its not entirely inaccurate
My current greatest issue with the game is knowing what to export. Exporting makes money, but it comes at a cost of my pops becoming poorer from the higher price. As a result, I end up never exporting, only importing.
I mean if you get some good down to the -50% to -75% percent price range, that's probably a good you want to consider exporting.
Especially if the buildings producing it have a 0,0 annual profitability per pop.
@@alexandererhard2516 That's fair, but most goods I get to 75% are things that end up being government expenditures or intermediary goods. If I export engines, I'm inadvertently screwing all of my factories that use them. Maybe I should just accept the price increase and make more 🤔
@@therealestsnake Hmm, I mostly try to have my goods in a similar price range if possible, because then the input and output goods of each building are also hopefully in a similar price range.
Because usually a building with higher relative input goods prices and lower relative output goods prices is a barely profitable or unprofitable building.
@@therealestsnake But so far I haven't intentionally tried to vastly overproduce a good with the intention of selling it to other markets.
But I guess it could be somewhat viable if you have some unique bonuses towards producing a certain good.
For example Sweden with rather productive and (compared to population) large Iron deposits, or Qing due to getting a country unique +25% throughput on Silk.
Can you please do one of this videos with Japan?
Question for those who still play this game: Did the devs change the construction sector? I see that he somehow has 300+ construction by 1842 with positive government income. I am in the red with high taxes and less than 150. I am confused
19:00 audio repeats
i know this video is relatively old now but it annoyed me so: there are 2 types of poll taxes per capita and land tax they are added up in the budget screen but they are separate, per capita taxes are payed by everyone where as land taxes are only payed by peasants they are both flat per person rates and they both suck but they are different.
Wood is crazy, specially the fuckin AMAZON RAINFOREST having so fuel
What does 70k+ of bureaucracy give you?
Not really anything of value. I had extra bureaucracy from trying to keep tax capacity high in my huge states, and then also just overbuilding it and not caring. Optimally, it's best to not overbuild bureaucracy but once you hit a few billion GDP, it no longer realistically matters.
@@Tarkusarkusar tried it today. At some point it shall give +10% to construction efficiency, but I didn’t notice this “increase”. But what I noticed is paper price. If I construct more paper factories to lower the paper price, the factories become less beneficial because it’s product is not expensive anymore. But if paper is expensive, you’ll receive more dividends tax, but also pay a lot more than usual from your pocket for expensive government goods. It’s better to balance this bureaucracy/paper thing. Btw bureaucracy slowly goes down because the population is constantly growing by itself, right?
why not use cornlaws to get to laissez faire?
Really easy to play, tell that to the Qing Emperor
this genre of isolationism and harsh tax for great qing is a bit old fashion for version 1.1.x. the newer way is that enacting laissez-faire, free trade/protectionism, high or very high taxation depending on the situation, only services and porcelain/tea tax consumption tax and use the excess authority to enact road maintenance and encourage industry. And the opium war is probably the easiest, ocuppy singapore and waiting for surrender will be fine. Imo, qing is invincible unless ai is playing.
i naval invade gambia and i hold the british army at beijing but their war support drains slower than mine. how do i fix this
I didn't do it in the video, but a new strategy you can do is to move your capital to somewhere off the coast (like Chongqing for example) and that way they take much longer to get to your capital.
i dont think that WE works in same way now. I tried several times, even if youre succsefull with UK africa in all cases, WE still counts pretty fast as logg as they are in your lands
I fucking love ur videos fam. Im 70 hours in and can barely understand that nerd general, ur diagrams helped me absolutely destroy after all 69 hours of getting rekt non stop. ❤ u daddy
how can we stop heavenly kingdom?
Damn, I already knew all the stuff he taught but I am still bad at handling the economy, radicals, army, and budget all at the same time :(
Some tips
Don't go absolutely insane with the construction, granted it's kinda hard due to an intial massive funding
Qing's army relies less on quality but quantity, just spam as many divisions as possible (I delayed the opium wars just to get a multiple 220 division armies)
Radicals are hard due to hiw many you start with and Qing's Sol rapidly decreasing due to opium prices, I try to mitigate this by making as many opium plantations as possible to make opium cheaper during the ban but radicalism is only solvable after the opium wars when your SoL can increase quickly
Legendas indisponíveis, minha dor nunca foi tão grande (sou brasileiro)
Subtitles unavailable, my pain has never been so great (I'm Brazilian)
Actually you can declare a war on Portugal to drag the GB into the war and they will gather all land forces in Macau with your over 700 battalions standing with them. When your score is higher than them, they won't attack and you can take the GB's colonies to force the GB to surrrender and then use human wave to take the Macau. Portugal cannot hold it without GB.
It's a way for Qing to remove the Macau treaty port, get the payout from both GB and Portugal, grab many oversea colonies from Great Britain and Portugal and the recognition as a great power in 1839. Just declare the war in the beginning of the game in 1836 and you can get all of these in 1839.
You may be from Alberta but somehow you don't know that everything north of Red Deer is covered in trees without any mountains to limit their growth.
play Tasmania next pls
18:53 "We don't want to waste raw materials, because they are the least plentiful of any good..."
19:08 "We don't want to waste raw materials, because they are the least plentiful of any good..."
Script or editing hiccup?
Editing hiccup, lol. My bad, but hopefully it didn't rock of the flow of the video too hard.
@@Tarkusarkusar I only noticed it on like my fourth viewing, so it's pretty smooth
isnt it the point to colonize to expand and to not run out of resources lol..
Not reeeeeaaaallly, Free trade would be far far cheaper than running a bureaucratic mess thousands of miles away from home. But I do get his point about how nations should have ways to improve internal production of things like wood. Autarky may be dumb, but it shouldn't be impossible
Instead of wasting 4 years at university i should have just watched this video
We eating tonight boys
Lore of How To Build the Perfect Economy momentum 100
I wish the diagrams at the beginning were more clear. I'm sure there are better ways to do it, for example a tree format with colour coding. Main issue is there's just too much information on screen at once and it's hard to tell the sections apart. Nice guide though, it definitely helped reinforce what I already thought is happening in the game.
The bubble diagram was great though!
Now it is time for Ultimate BILLION GDP BELGIUM STATE
He refuses to play a minor nation…
Belgium is lots of fun, although I prefer Luxembourg GIGACHAD
Wood is so bad, that in Brazil states of Para and Amazonas there is nothing, and is biggest than some countries with 2.5km (today, in 19th was bigger), with the Amazon Rain Forest, and there is no wood, how? Same for congo, they need to put some tech that increase the max wood in the building, like reforestation, efficient on the output
Can't build that there
More wood is needed
Even when I switch games, he haunts me still
as china i actually conquered Siberia just for the wood and it still not enough for a huge population that is in china