Use info from a 96 F150 5.0. There is a long nose starter for Automatics with a Flexplate and a short nose starter for Manuals with a Flywheel. Very important to get the right one. If you bolt an auto starter in with a manual, you'll bind the engine up. And if you bolt a manual start in with an auto, you won't catch the flexplate or just grind the teeth from little contact and ruin a flexplate.
Back in 2011, watching this channel inspired me to pursue and complete a 2-year degree in Automotive Engineering Technology from a state college. Afterward, I worked in the industry for a short time before going on to earn a BS in Electrical Engineering. Eric's professionalism, humble attitude, and demeanor have always motivated me to be a better student, tech, engineer, and teacher. Fantastic channel!
Started my journey of learning cars with your videos straight out of high school in 13 and so happy to see you’re still doing well! Thanks for everything!
I had no idea you came back. I dropped the sub because nothing was happening. Only reason I remembered you was I was watching "Watch Wes Work" and as he's cleaning out the junk in his shop, he said he understood why Twitter rented buildings and not owned them. Wes said he has sunk 50 grand into his building over the years. I immediately thought of you. That's all well and good not having to maintain someone else's building until that someone cuts your legs off. Resubbed!!!!! Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do.
I just fought with a slow cranking starter for a month. Same Ford single wire starter. New engine - everything new but I painted parts so it was not getting a solid ground path. Ran a separate ground wire to it... problem solved! Guess it's bad to get fussy and paint parts. Thanks for the tips in this video 😊
My dad owned a starter/alternator rebuild shop for 30 years. Seeing those two really brings back the memories. Does the newer one have permanent magnets? I remember him being so excited about that when it was a new feature. He was a dork about electricity and magnetism, obviously.
"If today is your birthday, Happy birthday! Here is a virtual cake I made for you" 😂 Holy spirit randomly put you on my mind Eric to tell you you're loved and cared for, and that your help to others through your videos has not gone unnoticed.
Glad to see you posting vids again. There are hacks like this in the BMW world - the 90's starters are lighter, etc. and work great in the 80's cars (in some cases anyway).
Whats up Eric. Tony here. I have about ten years experience. When I started working on cars you were on of the few sources out there on youtube. Now we got car care nut, chriss fix, matts offroad, and others. Anyways, just stopped by to say I am happy youre doing well and still doing videos. I wonder if you still have the H Elements lol. ANyway. have a good day.
So I have four Fords and one AMC that use the original solenoid/starter setup. Works fine and in fact made it easy to do two emergency repairs. Emergency when one Autolite clone from Marti froze as the car was started. That was fun and took me under 5 seconds to disconnect. Had an original Autolite that swapped out immediately. The AMC solenoid decided not to work at all one day and in the back of the wagon was an OEM Standard which I swapped out in the store parking lot. Way easier than getting under. However, my Mopar does have the two together, as stock, so fine with that.
In the 70s-early 80s Ford used both solenoids on the 460. As in 2 solenoids on one car/truck and used a thin metal strip as a jumper from the large post on the solenoid on the starter to the smaller post on the solenoid on the starter. Seems like that would be the easiest way on most applications of upgrading to this starter would be to just use a jumper wire on the solenoid on the starter like Ford had the metal jumper strip and you would not have to rewire anything.
Actually, the electrical piece on the fender area is a relay. The starter solenoid is the mechanical device that thrusts the gear to engage the starter with the flywheel/flexplate.
When the starter went out in our ‘89 C3500 I swapped in a gear reduction model from AC Delco, picking one from a later model 454. The weight savings allowed the MPG to go from 6 to 6.2MPG In all seriousness … lifting heavy starters into place is never fun. Did that once in February snow in a parking lot some decades ago.
On my V8 Ranger swap, I had to pick a starter for mine as well. Wound up going with one that was integrated solenoid, but in addition to that, because it was going into a chassis never designed for a V8, I picked one that was also clockable. Glad I did that as originally as it was set up the solenoid wound up hitting the exhaust manifold, so I did some rotation towards the block a bit to clear the manifold and tuck up under the custom mount plate a bit better. Worked out great, but wasn't cheap ($190ish). Starter cranks the motor though which is all I care about!
Forgot about your channel for awhile. Saw you in a TRQ video and wanted to see what's up. I started watching back when you were still doing FATR. Crazy it's been a long time since then. I thi k it would be cool if you started doing will it run vids. Saving old 90s japanese cars and reselling em. I think you would get alot engagement in that area.
I did the conversion primarily because I like the sound better, haha. I want to eliminate my fender solenoid too, and I bought a bunch of stuff to do that, including bus bars. I was hesitant to do it though, just because I had never seen it done. So, thanks!
I wouldn't. The solenoid draws way more power than the relay does (to the tune of 42A). Relocate the power distribution all you want, but you'll still want a decently sized relay for the solenoid.
i did this on my mustang but i kept the old solenoid on the firewall because i love having an easy access point to crank the engine with a pocket screwdriver for diagnostic purposes
Did the conversion to a gear reduction starter 20 years ago on my 1971 Corvette. Used a parts store starter because lifetime warranty sounded good. Well, warranty meant I got a new one when it died but I still had to replace it... 5 times. Had enough of that and put in a Powermaster starter (Made in USA) 7 years ago and it has been flawless. So my tip is avoid parts store starters. On the other hand I had great luck with a parts store alternator for the same car. Lasted 20 years and when it finally died they gave me a new one under warranty. Not all parts store stuff is bad.
@@ericthecarguyspeaking as someone who works in parts, I really wish that wasn't the case, as I drive old vehicles. I had an alternator on my personal truck fail within a month and a half.
I have done this before but had a miss match. the bite is ring gear count. I had a small 289 type bell housing I did find a starter that worked but do not remember the part number, can you help a guy out do you know that number. thank you.
Maybe. I've been looking for investors for the past couple of years to help me set up a production studio with staff to help out. In the mean time I've been trying to post videos on YT weekly to get back into it. Thanks for the comment.
@@ericthecarguy I swear man, the amount of things that ive attempted through the years on my cars and my friends cars is astronomical, the confidence youve helped instill in at least me in my mechanical abilities is more than you could ever know Eric. I hope all goes well with the future of this channel
@ericthecarguy is another option to leave the original solenoid as is, take the cable that goes to the starter and connect it to the second terminal on the new starter, so that the new solenoid is bypassed and the starter is activated by the old solenoid? Makes it simple, you still get the benefits of the new starter, oftentimes a solenoid goes out but the starter motor is good, especially with parts nowadays, so its an easy solenoid swap and also easier to jump the solenoid on the side of the road, especially in a tight motor compartment. Am I overlooking something? I always liked the divorced solenoid also when I just want to bump the motor when working on it, like adjusting valves etc.
Thats a really smart idea. I'd install the new one with all new wiring, and take the extra 5 min. to make up the back-up wiring harness and throw it in the trunk for emergency use. That way you not on the side of the road late at night trying to hack something workable.
I believe that is one of the methods I described in the video. You move the starter cable over to the battery side and run a small wire from the large terminal on the solenoid that you just removed the starter cable from and connect the other end to the small terminal on the new starter that goes to the solenoid. Thanks for the comment.
Glad you're on the starter topic.. BIG QUESTION I'm running the stock one and I'm having heat soak issues, I've literally warrantied 3 starters because of the problem. I have shorty headers and I have heat wrapped them. But I've literally ran the starter right out the box for 30 mins and I'm having a hard time starting after it heats up. Battery and alternator have checked out. My next attempt is to throw a heat blanket on the starter. Any ideas on how to solve this issue? Sorry for the long comment
Check your cables and connections for starters. (see what I did there?) Look for corrosion and maybe check the resistance of the cables, there should be close to 0, anything over that is suspect. Increased resistance in any of these will make the heat soak issue worse. You might consider wrapping, or if you can afford it, ceramic coating the headers. I think you can buy stuff you can brush on for this. I would also consider a starter blanket if the problem persists. Lastly, make sure the engine is running with a good mixture. If it's running lean, the exhaust will be hotter. Good hunting.
Possibly. Most newer vehicles don't even have fuel filters. They rely on the strainer inside the fuel tank instead. From what I remember, fuel filters started going away in the early 2000's.
Hey Eric, I have a question, I’m in Ohio and I’m not sure if you still have your own shop anymore but I have a 2015 civic LX with a manual transmission that went out and was wondering if you’d be willing to do a rebuild on it. Thank you
I think that was the idea. I think it also uses less materials which makes it cost less to manufacturer. Probably saved Ford a bunch of money over the years.
Not likely. With my turbo the exhaust goes in the opposite direction away from the starter. It's the one thing that is getting less heat in my set up. Thanks for the comment.
Avoid those cheap economy brands unless it's the only option, or it's a part that's basically impossible to mess up (e.g. a shift knob). Looking on RockAuto, a Bosch new unit is about $110 USD. Trying to save $20 and compromising quality is not worth the headache. "Penny wise, dollar foolish"
Yep. Just had to replace my wife's Sorento rear shocks at 72K, and all the cheapo AMZ and RockAuto, TRQ chinesium were $29-39. Ended up finding actual Bilstiens for $49. That and 30 min's work saved a boatload as lowest quote wads $375-400 for generic/Monroe bottom tier.
I'd not remove the relay... PMGR starter solenoids draw around 42A and the factory starter relay control circuit isn't even remotely rated for that. I've heard of people smoking ignition switches/wiring due to this. The previous owners of my boat did that when they upgraded it to PMGR (marine rated, of course), and it did a number on the ignition switch; I added in a fresh starter solenoid rated relay since the old relay was only good for power distribution and wasn't accessible. Do not use run-of-the-mill Bosch-style relays... even the ones that supposedly will do 40A I've heard of people smoking (since they're likely only good for 30A and the makers are betting on people overbuilding things). On my 1984 F150 (which is PMGR upgraded), I kept the relay but moved my power distribution to a secondary fuse panel under the hood. I used a new battery cable (Walmart) that runs straight to the starter feed from the positive battery lug, and used said cable's auxillary lead to connect to the fuse panel. The alternator fusible link (which feeds most of the stock circuitry of the truck) and power feed to the starter relay go to the fuse panel positive stud; the EEC-IV fusible link and all aftermarket circuitry (head unit/CB, trailer power, trailer brake) all go to fused/breaker locations on the panel. I also redid my ground at the same time using the same pre-made Walmart cable and ran the aux lead to ground distribution portion of said fuse panel (which is where all my added circuits get ground from plus the stock EEC-IV circuit).
I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around how this can damage an ignition switch. The solenoid is only going to draw enough amps to activate the coil, which isn't very much. I believe that's the reason they run a solenoid in the first place, to protect the ignition switch from the current draw of the starter. All you're doing with this swap is changing one solenoid for another, divorced for attached, I don't believe it should effect the ignition switch circuit in a significant way.
@ericthecarguy The coil also has to actuate the pinion gear slide into the ring gear... not just close a set of contacts like a relay (and why it's called a solenoid, not a relay). In fact, the contacts don't close until the pinion gear has fully meshed with the ring gear (which is why PMGR starters don't chew one ring gears nearly as much as the old moving-pole-shoe ones that spin and slide at the same time). One of my buddies tested his PMGR starter and the solenoid drew 42A when energized. Another friend used a 30A/40A Bosch relay for his PMGR starter upgrade and within a short period of time (1 month?) smoked it. Put another way, most suggestions I've read (to include ford's own upgrade kit) call for a 10-12 gauge wire... the stock relay wiring is way thinner (18-20 gauge). And Ford's ignitions switches have historically been on the weak side, so using an appropriate relay (such as the existing starter relay) to drive the coil is a safe bet. In fact, that's how many 90's Ford vehicles are built, such as my 1995 Ford ranger (which does have a moving-pole-shoe style relay but uses it to drive the solenoid of the stock PMGR starter).
Those old Ford starters last a long time and can still be reconditioned when they eventually break. The new ones, not so much. You'll be lucky if that thing lasts a year.
Use info from a 96 F150 5.0. There is a long nose starter for Automatics with a Flexplate and a short nose starter for Manuals with a Flywheel. Very important to get the right one. If you bolt an auto starter in with a manual, you'll bind the engine up. And if you bolt a manual start in with an auto, you won't catch the flexplate or just grind the teeth from little contact and ruin a flexplate.
That's great info. Thank you!
Back in 2011, watching this channel inspired me to pursue and complete a 2-year degree in Automotive Engineering Technology from a state college. Afterward, I worked in the industry for a short time before going on to earn a BS in Electrical Engineering. Eric's professionalism, humble attitude, and demeanor have always motivated me to be a better student, tech, engineer, and teacher. Fantastic channel!
Started my journey of learning cars with your videos straight out of high school in 13 and so happy to see you’re still doing well! Thanks for everything!
I missed you man. I'm getting emotional, reminiscing about all watching your repair videos. I still watch your cake videos on my birthday.
I had no idea you came back. I dropped the sub because nothing was happening. Only reason I remembered you was I was watching "Watch Wes Work" and as he's cleaning out the junk in his shop, he said he understood why Twitter rented buildings and not owned them. Wes said he has sunk 50 grand into his building over the years. I immediately thought of you. That's all well and good not having to maintain someone else's building until that someone cuts your legs off. Resubbed!!!!! Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do.
Honestly, same here.
Been watching for years, always love your content Eric. Glad you're back to making videos for us to learn and enjoy. Thank you so much.
Thank you!
I just fought with a slow cranking starter for a month. Same Ford single wire starter. New engine - everything new but I painted parts so it was not getting a solid ground path. Ran a separate ground wire to it... problem solved! Guess it's bad to get fussy and paint parts. Thanks for the tips in this video 😊
Who remembers using a pair of pliers to jump the terminals to start the car after the solenoid failed?
I still do it. Everything I own was built before 1995. 😁
My dad owned a starter/alternator rebuild shop for 30 years. Seeing those two really brings back the memories. Does the newer one have permanent magnets? I remember him being so excited about that when it was a new feature. He was a dork about electricity and magnetism, obviously.
I'm not sure, but I wish I knew that now. Your dad sounds really cool.
"If today is your birthday, Happy birthday! Here is a virtual cake I made for you" 😂
Holy spirit randomly put you on my mind Eric to tell you you're loved and cared for, and that your help to others through your videos has not gone unnoticed.
I didn't know Eric was back. Great. Always learn something from him.
Miss old times when you upload great videos
Glad to see you posting vids again. There are hacks like this in the BMW world - the 90's starters are lighter, etc. and work great in the 80's cars (in some cases anyway).
Whats up Eric. Tony here. I have about ten years experience. When I started working on cars you were on of the few sources out there on youtube. Now we got car care nut, chriss fix, matts offroad, and others. Anyways, just stopped by to say I am happy youre doing well and still doing videos. I wonder if you still have the H Elements lol. ANyway. have a good day.
I should do this in My 87 XR4Ti. Thanks for the tip.
I'm doing it on my early 85 EXP turbo coupe!
It helps a lot. Especially with hot restarts. I should have mentioned that in the video.
Fond memories of replacing starter on my 1979 Ford LTDII sedan. Easy access underneath, took 20 minutes. Unlike my Honda Element total PITA.
ford Fairmont project car still badass to this day man. some of my favorite videos
So I have four Fords and one AMC that use the original solenoid/starter setup. Works fine and in fact made it easy to do two emergency repairs. Emergency when one Autolite clone from Marti froze as the car was started. That was fun and took me under 5 seconds to disconnect. Had an original Autolite that swapped out immediately. The AMC solenoid decided not to work at all one day and in the back of the wagon was an OEM Standard which I swapped out in the store parking lot. Way easier than getting under. However, my Mopar does have the two together, as stock, so fine with that.
Thank you Eric always enjoy watching your wonderful videos please post more videos watching from South Africa
Cool I'm in the market for a starter. Video just in time. Thank!
In the 70s-early 80s Ford used both solenoids on the 460. As in 2 solenoids on one car/truck and used a thin metal strip as a jumper from the large post on the solenoid on the starter to the smaller post on the solenoid on the starter. Seems like that would be the easiest way on most applications of upgrading to this starter would be to just use a jumper wire on the solenoid on the starter like Ford had the metal jumper strip and you would not have to rewire anything.
Actually, the electrical piece on the fender area is a relay. The starter solenoid is the mechanical device that thrusts the gear to engage the starter with the flywheel/flexplate.
When the starter went out in our ‘89 C3500 I swapped in a gear reduction model from AC Delco, picking one from a later model 454.
The weight savings allowed the MPG to go from 6 to 6.2MPG
In all seriousness … lifting heavy starters into place is never fun. Did that once in February snow in a parking lot some decades ago.
On my V8 Ranger swap, I had to pick a starter for mine as well. Wound up going with one that was integrated solenoid, but in addition to that, because it was going into a chassis never designed for a V8, I picked one that was also clockable. Glad I did that as originally as it was set up the solenoid wound up hitting the exhaust manifold, so I did some rotation towards the block a bit to clear the manifold and tuck up under the custom mount plate a bit better. Worked out great, but wasn't cheap ($190ish). Starter cranks the motor though which is all I care about!
Forgot about your channel for awhile. Saw you in a TRQ video and wanted to see what's up. I started watching back when you were still doing FATR. Crazy it's been a long time since then. I thi k it would be cool if you started doing will it run vids. Saving old 90s japanese cars and reselling em. I think you would get alot engagement in that area.
Eric we miss you on UA-cam man, lot's of well wishes for you🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thank you!
I did the conversion primarily because I like the sound better, haha. I want to eliminate my fender solenoid too, and I bought a bunch of stuff to do that, including bus bars. I was hesitant to do it though, just because I had never seen it done. So, thanks!
I wouldn't. The solenoid draws way more power than the relay does (to the tune of 42A). Relocate the power distribution all you want, but you'll still want a decently sized relay for the solenoid.
I like the Ford stock setup that keeps the solenoid further away from heat. If the solenoid goes bad, you don't have to replace the whole starter.
Glad you are still educating.
excellent video thanks Eric 😊
i did this on my mustang but i kept the old solenoid on the firewall because i love having an easy access point to crank the engine with a pocket screwdriver for diagnostic purposes
Has something changed over the years? Seems the solenoid was the piece that always went bad on starters. Easier to replace one on the firewall.
good point
That's true, but I'd rather have the weight reduction and a starter that doesn't have to work as hard to turn the engine over.
Did the conversion to a gear reduction starter 20 years ago on my 1971 Corvette. Used a parts store starter because lifetime warranty sounded good. Well, warranty meant I got a new one when it died but I still had to replace it... 5 times. Had enough of that and put in a Powermaster starter (Made in USA) 7 years ago and it has been flawless. So my tip is avoid parts store starters.
On the other hand I had great luck with a parts store alternator for the same car. Lasted 20 years and when it finally died they gave me a new one under warranty. Not all parts store stuff is bad.
It is a crap shoot with parts these days. Thanks for sharing that.
@@ericthecarguyspeaking as someone who works in parts, I really wish that wasn't the case, as I drive old vehicles. I had an alternator on my personal truck fail within a month and a half.
That's right. Lifetime replacement. Or a lifetime replacing it...
You're the man Eric
I appreciate this content.
The fender attached solenoid made it so easy to steal fords back in the day
I have done this before but had a miss match. the bite is ring gear count. I had a small 289 type bell housing I did find a starter that worked but do not remember the part number, can you help a guy out do you know that number. thank you.
Sorry, perhaps someone will see the comment and know.
Are you ever gonna be back like you used to be? I miss the old etcg
Maybe. I've been looking for investors for the past couple of years to help me set up a production studio with staff to help out. In the mean time I've been trying to post videos on YT weekly to get back into it. Thanks for the comment.
@@ericthecarguy I swear man, the amount of things that ive attempted through the years on my cars and my friends cars is astronomical, the confidence youve helped instill in at least me in my mechanical abilities is more than you could ever know Eric. I hope all goes well with the future of this channel
Nice and clean,
let's see a video on the gen 3 ford alternator conversion from gen 1
I just bought a 1984 Ford Bronco II 2.8. Would this upgrade work? How would I know what starter to get for that motor?
You absolutely rock my friend!!! 😎💯
10 years ago you said you'd do a video on bleeding coolant systems with expansion tanks. Any chance? 😀
Bill Burr gave you a big shout out on his podcast!
The external solenoid can be triggered with a screwdriver easier. That could make the older ones easier and faster to steal without the keys
he showed the power block he replaced it with can be jumped from there almost as easy
Is this upgrade only possible on the Ford V8’s? 🤔 working on a ‘64-1/2 Mustang with a 200 L6
I think it might work on that as well, but I don't know for sure. I think they use the same bolt pattern. If they do, you should be good to go.
@ericthecarguy is another option to leave the original solenoid as is, take the cable that goes to the starter and connect it to the second terminal on the new starter, so that the new solenoid is bypassed and the starter is activated by the old solenoid?
Makes it simple, you still get the benefits of the new starter, oftentimes a solenoid goes out but the starter motor is good, especially with parts nowadays, so its an easy solenoid swap and also easier to jump the solenoid on the side of the road, especially in a tight motor compartment. Am I overlooking something?
I always liked the divorced solenoid also when I just want to bump the motor when working on it, like adjusting valves etc.
Thats a really smart idea. I'd install the new one with all new wiring, and take the extra 5 min. to make up the back-up wiring harness and throw it in the trunk for emergency use. That way you not on the side of the road late at night trying to hack something workable.
I believe that is one of the methods I described in the video. You move the starter cable over to the battery side and run a small wire from the large terminal on the solenoid that you just removed the starter cable from and connect the other end to the small terminal on the new starter that goes to the solenoid. Thanks for the comment.
ERIC WE MISSED YOU😊
I missed you too!
The old fords from the 60’s and early 70’s with higher compression used GM starters and with AC even the generators.
Glad you're on the starter topic.. BIG QUESTION I'm running the stock one and I'm having heat soak issues, I've literally warrantied 3 starters because of the problem. I have shorty headers and I have heat wrapped them. But I've literally ran the starter right out the box for 30 mins and I'm having a hard time starting after it heats up. Battery and alternator have checked out. My next attempt is to throw a heat blanket on the starter. Any ideas on how to solve this issue?
Sorry for the long comment
Check your cables and connections for starters. (see what I did there?) Look for corrosion and maybe check the resistance of the cables, there should be close to 0, anything over that is suspect. Increased resistance in any of these will make the heat soak issue worse. You might consider wrapping, or if you can afford it, ceramic coating the headers. I think you can buy stuff you can brush on for this. I would also consider a starter blanket if the problem persists. Lastly, make sure the engine is running with a good mixture. If it's running lean, the exhaust will be hotter. Good hunting.
Does the model number of the starter matter if you have a 157 tooth flywheel or a 164 tooth flywheel, or a flexplate vs. a flywheel?
Possibly. I don't know for sure.
Great Video Erick!!!!
As always.
Would this apply on my 1977 ford Maverick 302?
I think the starter upgrade also not as close to the exhaust headers
Hey Eric, could you make a topical video on fuel filters? Is it worth changing at some point?
Possibly. Most newer vehicles don't even have fuel filters. They rely on the strainer inside the fuel tank instead. From what I remember, fuel filters started going away in the early 2000's.
Hey Eric, I have a question, I’m in Ohio and I’m not sure if you still have your own shop anymore but I have a 2015 civic LX with a manual transmission that went out and was wondering if you’d be willing to do a rebuild on it. Thank you
I want to learn troubleshoot automotive electrical system please help me
That’s amazing that the new starter is smaller and lighter yet it works so much better!
I think that was the idea. I think it also uses less materials which makes it cost less to manufacturer. Probably saved Ford a bunch of money over the years.
Hello there!😜✌️
Hello
363 turbocharged... most replayed section of the video.
The divorced solenoid. The car part that ends up paying money and losing everything for about 18 years.
The nose cone looks dissimilar. Other than the wiring, plug and play?
I haven't had any engagement issues with the small block in the video. To answer your question, yes, it should bolt right in.
Wondering if you are going to experience the starter solenoid heat soak issues that the Chevy guys have had to deal with for ever.
Not likely. With my turbo the exhaust goes in the opposite direction away from the starter. It's the one thing that is getting less heat in my set up. Thanks for the comment.
Was expecting following two options: buy a Toyota or buy a Honda.
Those are also options.
Avoid those cheap economy brands unless it's the only option, or it's a part that's basically impossible to mess up (e.g. a shift knob).
Looking on RockAuto, a Bosch new unit is about $110 USD. Trying to save $20 and compromising quality is not worth the headache.
"Penny wise, dollar foolish"
Yep. Just had to replace my wife's Sorento rear shocks at 72K, and all the cheapo AMZ and RockAuto, TRQ chinesium were $29-39. Ended up finding actual Bilstiens for $49. That and 30 min's work saved a boatload as lowest quote wads $375-400 for generic/Monroe bottom tier.
I'd not remove the relay... PMGR starter solenoids draw around 42A and the factory starter relay control circuit isn't even remotely rated for that. I've heard of people smoking ignition switches/wiring due to this. The previous owners of my boat did that when they upgraded it to PMGR (marine rated, of course), and it did a number on the ignition switch; I added in a fresh starter solenoid rated relay since the old relay was only good for power distribution and wasn't accessible. Do not use run-of-the-mill Bosch-style relays... even the ones that supposedly will do 40A I've heard of people smoking (since they're likely only good for 30A and the makers are betting on people overbuilding things).
On my 1984 F150 (which is PMGR upgraded), I kept the relay but moved my power distribution to a secondary fuse panel under the hood. I used a new battery cable (Walmart) that runs straight to the starter feed from the positive battery lug, and used said cable's auxillary lead to connect to the fuse panel. The alternator fusible link (which feeds most of the stock circuitry of the truck) and power feed to the starter relay go to the fuse panel positive stud; the EEC-IV fusible link and all aftermarket circuitry (head unit/CB, trailer power, trailer brake) all go to fused/breaker locations on the panel. I also redid my ground at the same time using the same pre-made Walmart cable and ran the aux lead to ground distribution portion of said fuse panel (which is where all my added circuits get ground from plus the stock EEC-IV circuit).
I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around how this can damage an ignition switch. The solenoid is only going to draw enough amps to activate the coil, which isn't very much. I believe that's the reason they run a solenoid in the first place, to protect the ignition switch from the current draw of the starter. All you're doing with this swap is changing one solenoid for another, divorced for attached, I don't believe it should effect the ignition switch circuit in a significant way.
@ericthecarguy The coil also has to actuate the pinion gear slide into the ring gear... not just close a set of contacts like a relay (and why it's called a solenoid, not a relay). In fact, the contacts don't close until the pinion gear has fully meshed with the ring gear (which is why PMGR starters don't chew one ring gears nearly as much as the old moving-pole-shoe ones that spin and slide at the same time).
One of my buddies tested his PMGR starter and the solenoid drew 42A when energized. Another friend used a 30A/40A Bosch relay for his PMGR starter upgrade and within a short period of time (1 month?) smoked it.
Put another way, most suggestions I've read (to include ford's own upgrade kit) call for a 10-12 gauge wire... the stock relay wiring is way thinner (18-20 gauge). And Ford's ignitions switches have historically been on the weak side, so using an appropriate relay (such as the existing starter relay) to drive the coil is a safe bet. In fact, that's how many 90's Ford vehicles are built, such as my 1995 Ford ranger (which does have a moving-pole-shoe style relay but uses it to drive the solenoid of the stock PMGR starter).
I don't agree. Think it should be left alone. Easier to just change the solenoid.
Those old Ford starters last a long time and can still be reconditioned when they eventually break. The new ones, not so much. You'll be lucky if that thing lasts a year.
and if its the wrong one u just might chip some flywheel teeth
What the fuck is a "selinoid?"
Best way to upgrade a ford is to buy a Toyota. Ford had better get a better idea.
Wow. I think you missed the point in owning a turbocharged 1979 Ford fairmont
@@CK-jd7wo-test You jumped the shark when you said Fairmont.
@@jaybabcock4557 Ever heard of Bob Glidden?
Sooooooo your making fords into chevy cars now???? thats why i never went went to chevys all in ones SUCK !!
Go take your pill old man