I've found your video while trying to search for Elmer's paste...When I started to listen to you I wanted to cry. I've been teaching art for the past 20 years and the Elmer's paste has always been my go to. So thank you for your post about Methylcellulose and how it can be used in place of our favorite paste.
I'm glad it was helpful. I can't imagine why they stopped making the Art Paste! Be sure to watch the update video, too - I found out there's a trick to using the methylcellulose after it's been stored for awhile. You can found it here: ua-cam.com/video/y8DdgyHElzk/v-deo.html
I use Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) for water marbling and as far as I can tell, it's the same thing as what you were using as a paste in this vid. It mixes better in boiling water, you mix it using a blender, or beater or the tool you used and then leave whatever still needs diluting over night to fully set. That way it becomes a thick, clear paste, depending on how much water added. I checked my marbling journals and it turns out I don't have a set recipe that I use. I just mix according to the texture and thickness I want the gel mixture to have on that day. I can be impulsive that way. Maybe give the boiled water method a try. So you have your bowl of boiling water. Start beating, adding the cmc to it a tbs at a time, maybe a couple tbs at a time. You'll see it begin to thicken. Add water or cmc as needed, blend until mostly desolved and then let sit overnight. you use less cmc that way and get a thicker gel/paste. You can also still dilute it as needed when you are using it. I like making a very thick concentrate that I dilute when needed. I keep it in a closed bucket on the cold floor or in a cool place so it'll last for months as a thick gel. That way I don't have to mix it all the time, just dilute.
I wonder if they aren't just a little different, because it was fairly easy to mix mine once I got out the mixer. And I used cold water. But they must be related, because they do sound a lot alike.
@@UltimatePaperMache So in terms of their application to paper mache as well as for water marbling, it just means that Methylcellulose can only remain at it's thickest when heated and only for around 30mins. CMC, however, is best diluted in hot water in which it becomes a comparatively thicker gell and is able to stay that way for much, much longer, or until you dilute it for use. This is why I think CMC can be more cost effective. The fact that it remains thicker for longer means you can water it down as much as you need. Maybe give it a try if you can.
Thank you. I have a few art students allergic to wheat, even if it's in the air or with skin contact so I was looking for something that doesn't use flour. This is perfect! Thanks to all who suggested mixing the day before in warm water!
Olá Jonni, sou restauradora de livros e usamos a metilcelulose cmc para a restauração de documentos e livros Tem que adicionar uma pequena quantidade na água mexer e deixar em repouso pois a mistura vai tomando forma de gel aos poucos, tem que ter paciencia pois leva algumas horas Voce colocou a metilcelulose em pouca quantidade de agua, ela cresce muito e nao precisa bater com o mixer Paciencia que vai dar certo 😂 Um abraço aqui do Brasil 🇧🇷
Jonni, when you have a moment, could you please note the differences between this type of paste and wallpaper paste for Papier Mâché ? Thank you, for your time and expertise!!
For people coming here late she covers that in another video. But basically some wallpaper paste is the same product and other wallpaper paste is something else.
Hi , thankyou for putting Elmers paper mache powder recipe here so i know how much water to add! I was just searching for it and finally googled, ‘ is Elmers still in production’ ? And your video popped up! Perfect timing, i ordered the same one. Because it’s a small amount. I see the powder sold by the pound. Thanks again! :)
I sell this (not the packet you show but the product) under"Cellulose Glue" in New Zealand Ingredients: "Sodium Carboxyl Methl Cellulose" It does something weird like what you experienced but mix it with warm water and leave it overnight (technically you can start using it after 30 minutes soaking), then give it a good stir the next day. (The white bits will turn clear during that time but without that good stir next day, it will be a little clumpy.) I'd also ad a drop of clove oil, as I did find it getting some mould growing in it having left it for a couple of weeks. The drop of clove oil should take care of that. 10g to a litre (I do 5g to 500ml for my needs that's plenty in a batch)
The clove oil is a good idea. I haven't seen any mould growing in mine, but we probably have different spores in our air than you do. Thanks for the tip.
My husband has been shredding paper - important documents from 20 years ago, etc He even had to buy a new shredder (which cuts from more than one direction). Since we will be relocating soon, I asked him to keep the shreds and we will use them for packing. Then I got the idea that after we move, I will use the shreds for paper mache. . . I think this should turn out like clay, right? Do you have any suggestions or tutorials that I might reference?
I don't use the traditional paper pulp for paper mache - and it sounds like that's what you'll be making. You can find a lot of great tutorials for it here: www.papiermache.co.uk/
I just found a Wikimedia entry, it says that the water needs to be warm (sorry if this is already mentioned somewhere here). Here is the link: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_cellulose The entry needs more info, as you'll see it recommends more citations for verification.
Have you tried sticky rice flour? I wonder if that would work. Or maybe tapioca flour. I don’t know. Maybe that was a stupid thought but they seem very similar and might mix easier. I have some of each so maybe I’ll try them out for fun.
I haven't tried them, but if they're sticky when wet, they should work. Most kinds of paste are made out of starch. Let us know what you find out when you play with them. 😊
I would also be interested in seeing this experiment done. I have my suspicions about the rice flour simply because it's kind of brittle when it forms like natural rice paper sheets so I wonder how that would interact with paper pulp. Tapioca is intriguing because that stuff holds on to water like nothing else so I would imagine it would take a long time to dry but I'm also kind of curious just how this would end up working given how incredibly gelatinous it is. Maybe it would actually work better.
have you tried mixing syrofoam and mets / nail polish remover to create a paste glue and if so how well does it work for paper mache. great methods. this channel is the go to for paper mache tips
Found this on a product that I think it is the same but with different packaging. - The best method to use Methocel is to add to hot water of approx 70ºC, then add twice the amount of cold water to the solution. This will bring the temperature of the solution down and the Methocel will dissolve
Interesting - I wonder if using the hot water will keep it from foaming up so much? I do remember that the Elmer's product needed cold water, but they might have put more ingredients in it than just the methylcellulose. Thanks for the tip!
@@alcg3981 "My" instructions were just the old ones from the Elmer's Art Paste box - and they may have added something that doesn't like hot water. If you try this paste, go ahead and experiment - or buy some that's packaged for artists and follow the instructions that come with the product. 😊
It is used in many things that we eat. If you were a contents label reader because you were prone to allergic reactions, you would find it in many things that you eat, cereals, cake mix, and some candies. Have fun reading lables.
Yep I have allergies and I see it on labels all the time, but I have absolutely no idea what it's exact purposes and cooking and I plan on looking that up next. I assume it's some kind of thickener or texture modifier except that I see it in things that I don't really understand why it's there.
Hi Jonni, I'm interested in this video, as I'm looking for an alternative to Elmer's Art Paste too. I also ordered food grade methyl cellulose from Amazon. I figured the amount of powder to water as you did, to make a quart. But mine doesn't thicken at all--it's water-like. I tried it as paste, and it doesn't have any stickiness or cling at all like our old art paste. Would you mind sending the link to the product you ordered? Mine must be wrong kind. I e-mailed Elmer's the other day, begging them to bring the product back. I really don't think art teachers knew about it. I only discovered it the last 10 yrs of my art teaching career. I think they could market it better, such as here on You Tube. The old art paste really never spoiled, as you said. I've had a container of mixed up paste since 2015, and it still works great. It's thinner, but still has its cling & dries to a hard finish. Hope we can collaborate. Debora in Alabama
This is the product I bought, but I don't know if it's at all different from any other brand: amzn.to/3ORVjYE Mine didn't get thick, either. But once it was mixed up it did glue paper onto paper. After it sat on the shelf for a month it wasn't sticky anymore because the transparent solids floated to the bottom of the jar, but as soon as I mixed it up again, it worked just fine. Maybe you just need to let yours sit overnight and then mix again? Or read through the comments on this video - quite a few people posted who have much more experience with it than I do.
Thanks for your quick reply, Jonni. What I got from Amazon is called microcrystalline cellulose powder, and it said it's a thickening agent. So I'm ordering what you got. Yours did look like it thickened after letting it sit. I believe our old Art Paste had some sort of adhesive added as well. Elmer's was not straightforward with me at all. They replied twice to my e-mails now, basically just saying they don't take suggestions from the public. This paste used to be manufactured as Ross Art Paste, but they discontinued it as well, then Elmer's took it over, ages ago. I greatly admire what you are doing here--sharing your expertise. I'm in great hopes that the methyl cellulose I order will act as well as Art Paste. But just noticed the Amazon choice is $12 for 2 oz! Here is
I can't afford translations, but click on the Closed Captions (CC) icon below the video, then click on the Gear icon, and choose Subtitles, and then Auto-Translate, and Spanish. It's a lot of clicks, but it should help.
Maybe adding boiling water to the powder does it better? For piñatas, we disolve a tablespoon of cornstarch in about 1/4 cup room temp water then add a 1/2 cup of boiling water, this forms a strong crystalline paste. Without boiling water, the paste might stick newspaper when wet but will turn to dust when dry and bond will fail. this paste is not watertight however, so i am searching for permanent alternative.
The only watertight option I know about is Titebond III wood glue. But even then, the glue might not melt in the rain, but the paper might if it isn't really well sealed. Getting paper mache to be waterproof is a real challenge.
@@UltimatePaperMache Over here in the Netherlands it is common use to take wallpaper past powder to make the glue. Make a mix with enough water, wisk by hand, let it rest for at least an hour, and add water when it is too thick. Methylcellulose is [main] ingredient. Google gives you the answer.
When I was a kid, we made paste with flour and water. But if you mean wallpaper paste, I'm sure they still sell it. I don't think you'd want to eat it, but I don't think it's toxic. Elmer's Art Paste used to be a great option, but they did stop selling that. You can use methylcellulose as an alternative. I have a couple of videos about that. Here's the first one: ua-cam.com/video/Ni4FLqZoOYo/v-deo.html
Head up everyone! Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) is NOT quite the same as the elmers! It works the same way when it's freshly mixed, but it denatures as it sits, so it can't be stored. Even with shaking, or hot water instead of cold, after 24 hours it's no good anymore.
That's interesting. The Methylcellulose that I bought worked just fine after sitting for at least a month. Perhaps it depends on the brand? Mine said it was pure Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, food grade. Is that different from the product you mentioned?
When I was in grad school we used this with paper pulp to make paper mache and as a very thinned addition in paper making. I was on the farm campus in St Paul, MN and one of our food science major neighbors called it poo paper…not that politely. 😁
Haga clic en el ícono de subtítulos (CC) debajo del video, luego haga clic en el ícono de ajustes y elija Subtítulos, luego Traducción automática y Español. Son muchos clics, pero deberían ayudar.
I've found your video while trying to search for Elmer's paste...When I started to listen to you I wanted to cry. I've been teaching art for the past 20 years and the Elmer's paste has always been my go to. So thank you for your post about Methylcellulose and how it can be used in place of our favorite paste.
I'm glad it was helpful. I can't imagine why they stopped making the Art Paste! Be sure to watch the update video, too - I found out there's a trick to using the methylcellulose after it's been stored for awhile. You can found it here: ua-cam.com/video/y8DdgyHElzk/v-deo.html
I agree, I also almost cried and was so happy to see this. THANK YOU!!!
I love that you film all your oopsies!
I use Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) for water marbling and as far as I can tell, it's the same thing as what you were using as a paste in this vid. It mixes better in boiling water, you mix it using a blender, or beater or the tool you used and then leave whatever still needs diluting over night to fully set. That way it becomes a thick, clear paste, depending on how much water added.
I checked my marbling journals and it turns out I don't have a set recipe that I use. I just mix according to the texture and thickness I want the gel mixture to have on that day. I can be impulsive that way. Maybe give the boiled water method a try.
So you have your bowl of boiling water. Start beating, adding the cmc to it a tbs at a time, maybe a couple tbs at a time. You'll see it begin to thicken. Add water or cmc as needed, blend until mostly desolved and then let sit overnight. you use less cmc that way and get a thicker gel/paste. You can also still dilute it as needed when you are using it.
I like making a very thick concentrate that I dilute when needed. I keep it in a closed bucket on the cold floor or in a cool place so it'll last for months as a thick gel. That way I don't have to mix it all the time, just dilute.
I wonder if they aren't just a little different, because it was fairly easy to mix mine once I got out the mixer. And I used cold water. But they must be related, because they do sound a lot alike.
@@UltimatePaperMache So in terms of their application to paper mache as well as for water marbling, it just means that Methylcellulose can only remain at it's thickest when heated and only for around 30mins. CMC, however, is best diluted in hot water in which it becomes a comparatively thicker gell and is able to stay that way for much, much longer, or until you dilute it for use.
This is why I think CMC can be more cost effective. The fact that it remains thicker for longer means you can water it down as much as you need. Maybe give it a try if you can.
Thank you. I have a few art students allergic to wheat, even if it's in the air or with skin contact so I was looking for something that doesn't use flour. This is perfect! Thanks to all who suggested mixing the day before in warm water!
😊
Olá Jonni, sou restauradora de livros e usamos a metilcelulose cmc para a restauração de documentos e livros
Tem que adicionar uma pequena quantidade na água mexer e deixar em repouso pois a mistura vai tomando forma de gel aos poucos, tem que ter paciencia pois leva algumas horas
Voce colocou a metilcelulose em pouca quantidade de agua, ela cresce muito e nao precisa bater com o mixer
Paciencia que vai dar certo 😂
Um abraço aqui do Brasil 🇧🇷
I use it in collage, and it’s wonderful. I have been able to whisk it up in a wider, bowl-like container.
That's good to know - thanks!!
Creative soul art do you add pva?
@@annatronson5927 nope, just the methylcellulose powder and water. But PVA would be a good addition. I’m just too lazy to mix it up.
Jonni, when you have a moment, could you please note the differences between this type of paste and wallpaper paste for Papier Mâché ? Thank you, for your time and expertise!!
For people coming here late she covers that in another video. But basically some wallpaper paste is the same product and other wallpaper paste is something else.
Great video 👍
Thanks! 😊
Thank you so much for this recipe 💖💖💖
Hi , thankyou for putting Elmers paper mache powder recipe here so i know how much water to add! I was just searching for it and finally googled, ‘ is Elmers still in production’ ? And your video popped up! Perfect timing, i ordered the same one. Because it’s a small amount. I see the powder sold by the pound. Thanks again! :)
I sell this (not the packet you show but the product) under"Cellulose Glue" in New Zealand Ingredients: "Sodium Carboxyl Methl Cellulose"
It does something weird like what you experienced but mix it with warm water and leave it overnight (technically you can start using it after 30 minutes soaking), then give it a good stir the next day. (The white bits will turn clear during that time but without that good stir next day, it will be a little clumpy.) I'd also ad a drop of clove oil, as I did find it getting some mould growing in it having left it for a couple of weeks. The drop of clove oil should take care of that.
10g to a litre (I do 5g to 500ml for my needs that's plenty in a batch)
The clove oil is a good idea. I haven't seen any mould growing in mine, but we probably have different spores in our air than you do. Thanks for the tip.
Thank you Joni! 👏👏👏
My husband has been shredding paper - important documents from 20 years ago, etc He even had to buy a new shredder (which cuts from more than one direction). Since we will be relocating soon, I asked him to keep the shreds and we will use them for packing. Then I got the idea that after we move, I will use the shreds for paper mache. . . I think this should turn out like clay, right? Do you have any suggestions or tutorials that I might reference?
I don't use the traditional paper pulp for paper mache - and it sounds like that's what you'll be making. You can find a lot of great tutorials for it here: www.papiermache.co.uk/
There is a methylcellulose fiber powder that is taken for fiber.
The unflavored variety is pure methyl, no other ingredients that I remember.
I just found a Wikimedia entry, it says that the water needs to be warm (sorry if this is already mentioned somewhere here). Here is the link:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_cellulose
The entry needs more info, as you'll see it recommends more citations for verification.
Have you tried sticky rice flour? I wonder if that would work. Or maybe tapioca flour. I don’t know. Maybe that was a stupid thought but they seem very similar and might mix easier. I have some of each so maybe I’ll try them out for fun.
I haven't tried them, but if they're sticky when wet, they should work. Most kinds of paste are made out of starch. Let us know what you find out when you play with them. 😊
I would also be interested in seeing this experiment done. I have my suspicions about the rice flour simply because it's kind of brittle when it forms like natural rice paper sheets so I wonder how that would interact with paper pulp. Tapioca is intriguing because that stuff holds on to water like nothing else so I would imagine it would take a long time to dry but I'm also kind of curious just how this would end up working given how incredibly gelatinous it is. Maybe it would actually work better.
have you tried mixing syrofoam and mets / nail polish remover to create a paste glue and if so how well does it work for paper mache. great methods. this channel is the go to for paper mache tips
Nail polish remover is so toxic i won’t use it n my nails, I’d avoid working with it this way too.
Found this on a product that I think it is the same but with different packaging. - The best method to use Methocel is to add to hot water of approx 70ºC, then add twice the amount of cold water to the solution. This will bring the temperature of the solution down and the Methocel will dissolve
I also want to thank you for the wonderful ideas you share here. :)
Interesting - I wonder if using the hot water will keep it from foaming up so much? I do remember that the Elmer's product needed cold water, but they might have put more ingredients in it than just the methylcellulose. Thanks for the tip!
I was going to suggest using hot water! But if their (Jonni's paste) instructions say it doesn't matter...
@@alcg3981 "My" instructions were just the old ones from the Elmer's Art Paste box - and they may have added something that doesn't like hot water. If you try this paste, go ahead and experiment - or buy some that's packaged for artists and follow the instructions that come with the product. 😊
@@UltimatePaperMache Ahh, I see! Thank you for the clarification 😻. Well, I'm in France and checking what's available here.
It is used in many things that we eat. If you were a contents label reader because you were prone to allergic reactions, you would find it in many things that you eat, cereals, cake mix, and some candies. Have fun reading lables.
Yep I have allergies and I see it on labels all the time, but I have absolutely no idea what it's exact purposes and cooking and I plan on looking that up next. I assume it's some kind of thickener or texture modifier except that I see it in things that I don't really understand why it's there.
Wallpaper glue is usually methyl cellulose. There are a few brands that sell large tubs
Thanks for the tip!
Hi Jonni, I'm interested in this video, as I'm looking for an alternative to Elmer's Art Paste too. I also ordered food grade methyl cellulose from Amazon. I figured the amount of powder to water as you did, to make a quart. But mine doesn't thicken at all--it's water-like. I tried it as paste, and it doesn't have any stickiness or cling at all like our old art paste. Would you mind sending the link to the product you ordered? Mine must be wrong kind.
I e-mailed Elmer's the other day, begging them to bring the product back. I really don't think art teachers knew about it. I only discovered it the last 10 yrs of my art teaching career. I think they could market it better, such as here on You Tube.
The old art paste really never spoiled, as you said. I've had a container of mixed up paste since 2015, and it still works great. It's thinner, but still has its cling & dries to a hard finish. Hope we can collaborate.
Debora in Alabama
This is the product I bought, but I don't know if it's at all different from any other brand: amzn.to/3ORVjYE
Mine didn't get thick, either. But once it was mixed up it did glue paper onto paper. After it sat on the shelf for a month it wasn't sticky anymore because the transparent solids floated to the bottom of the jar, but as soon as I mixed it up again, it worked just fine. Maybe you just need to let yours sit overnight and then mix again? Or read through the comments on this video - quite a few people posted who have much more experience with it than I do.
Thanks for your quick reply, Jonni. What I got from Amazon is called microcrystalline cellulose powder, and it said it's a thickening agent. So I'm ordering what you got. Yours did look like it thickened after letting it sit.
I believe our old Art Paste had some sort of adhesive added as well. Elmer's was not straightforward with me at all. They replied twice to my e-mails now, basically just saying they don't take suggestions from the public. This paste used to be manufactured as Ross Art Paste, but they discontinued it as well, then Elmer's took it over, ages ago.
I greatly admire what you are doing here--sharing your expertise.
I'm in great hopes that the methyl cellulose I order will act as well as Art Paste. But just noticed the Amazon choice is $12 for 2 oz! Here is
Muy hermosos tus trabajos amiguita, te agradecería y me gustaría mucho que fueran traducidos al español gracias🎉🎉🎉
I can't afford translations, but click on the Closed Captions (CC) icon below the video, then click on the Gear icon, and choose Subtitles, and then Auto-Translate, and Spanish. It's a lot of clicks, but it should help.
The Elmers Paste can get moldy if you have it long enough
Maybe adding boiling water to the powder does it better? For piñatas, we disolve a tablespoon of cornstarch in about 1/4 cup room temp water then add a 1/2 cup of boiling water, this forms a strong crystalline paste. Without boiling water, the paste might stick newspaper when wet but will turn to dust when dry and bond will fail. this paste is not watertight however, so i am searching for permanent alternative.
The only watertight option I know about is Titebond III wood glue. But even then, the glue might not melt in the rain, but the paper might if it isn't really well sealed. Getting paper mache to be waterproof is a real challenge.
I thought wallpaper-paste was basically methylcellulose... The Methylan-Papier product here in Germany is just MHEC at least :)
Could be - I really don't know anything about wallpaper paste.
@@UltimatePaperMache Over here in the Netherlands it is common use to take wallpaper past powder to make the glue. Make a mix with enough water, wisk by hand, let it rest for at least an hour, and add water when it is too thick. Methylcellulose is [main] ingredient. Google gives you the answer.
Sorry Jonni, how much water did you use? 🌹🌹
The full 2 oz package will make a gallon of paste, but I cut that down to a quart and half an oz of the methylcellulose.
Thank you Jonni.
Methylcellulose is used in vegan cooking to give fake meat a springy meat texture or "bite." It works too!
Use warm water to mix ?
Why did they stop selling traditional paste like we had when we were kids? You can’t find it anywhere. Was it toxic?
When I was a kid, we made paste with flour and water. But if you mean wallpaper paste, I'm sure they still sell it. I don't think you'd want to eat it, but I don't think it's toxic. Elmer's Art Paste used to be a great option, but they did stop selling that. You can use methylcellulose as an alternative. I have a couple of videos about that. Here's the first one: ua-cam.com/video/Ni4FLqZoOYo/v-deo.html
I am so sad about the art paste. I have used it for 20 years in the classroom. I might reach out to Elmers???
If you're able to talk to anyone and they explain why they took it off the market, please let us know what they say!
metyl is to be found as an additive in wallpaper paste...
Hi J!!!!
Hi. 😊
Head up everyone! Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) is NOT quite the same as the elmers! It works the same way when it's freshly mixed, but it denatures as it sits, so it can't be stored. Even with shaking, or hot water instead of cold, after 24 hours it's no good anymore.
That's interesting. The Methylcellulose that I bought worked just fine after sitting for at least a month. Perhaps it depends on the brand? Mine said it was pure Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, food grade. Is that different from the product you mentioned?
@@UltimatePaperMache the one I bought was food grade carboxymethyl, so yes, it must be different than the hydroxypropyl
When I was in grad school we used this with paper pulp to make paper mache and as a very thinned addition in paper making. I was on the farm campus in St Paul, MN and one of our food science major neighbors called it poo paper…not that politely. 😁
That wasn't very nice! But it would be fun to try making paper with it. 🙂
Por favor traducir a Español.
Haga clic en el ícono de subtítulos (CC) debajo del video, luego haga clic en el ícono de ajustes y elija Subtítulos, luego Traducción automática y Español. Son muchos clics, pero deberían ayudar.
Does this make your rabbit a meth head?
😄
😂😅😂
😂 also hi another Darcie