Either way, I'm glad it's here and that this channel is here. You make some really great content that UA-cam definitely needs more of. I really enjoy classic game videos as it is. If you make them about my favorite game of all, I'm cancelling everything on my schedule for the immediate future. 😅
I don't understand how this channel comes out of nowhere and delivers quality videos that seem to require an unreal amount of research. Loved every video so far.
They are the shinraarchaeology and the lifestream guys they have been doing translation of supplementary material about FFVII for ages not to mention deep dives into the OG, the compilation the remakes.
@@Ronin_2004 Wish they would the same level of passion on the _other_ JRGPs written by SquareSoft, including the likes of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross which sadly having been the love they deserve.
Jenova was always the most fascinating aspect of FF7 to me. There was just something super creepy and unsettling about her(it?), and I think they could've gone even farther with it.
@@BenjaminGoose The issue with Jenova and cosmic horrors is that the more you explain and show about them, the less effective they become. It would only work if they kept the mystique.
She/it always reminded me of Lavos from Chrono Trigger, making me wonder if the two could be related and if in fact there's the chance that Chrono Trigger, FF7 and FFX do in fact take place in the same universe.
One thing overlooked in this fantastic video is some of the themes and ideas that are similar in other Square games. The obvious one being Chrono Trigger which was the game co-directed by Kitase before he directed FFVII. In that game an alien lifeform impacts the planet in the past and has negative influence on the human race even in it's hibernated sleep. This plot device again occurs in Xenogears which was the basis for the draft that morphed into FFVII with Xenogears becoming a separate project later. The common theme or trope of them all is the concept of the demiurge or false "fleshy" god who is corrupted by their own materialism. The basic idea being that anything material is flawed and will rot and fade away whereas the immaterial is incorruptible and pure. These themes are pretty universal and can be applied to the plot of almost anything but given that Xenogears is so explicit with these ideas I can't shake that it wasn't with FFVII too. The relationship between JENOVA and Sephiroth is like the one between Sophia and her child the Demiurge who she raises to believe is the true god and keeps him blind to the truth. So much of the story's plot revolves around people being corrupted by material greed. JENOVA and Sephiroth are motivated to become a "physical god" that is the only existence in control of everything. Shinra is pretty self-explanatory and I feel a line in the Remake from Tseng is very telling when he talks to child Aerith about the prophecy of the Promised Land and how Shinra take it at face value, that the Promised Land is a "physical place". The reality is that the Promised Land is a spiritual, immaterial place that can never be corrupted. All that said, it's probably impossible to know where one person's idea began and another begins. It's possible that Nojima came up with the idea to make JENOVA a being or something and then Kitase re-joined with "oh we had an alien in my last game, let's make it an alien that crashes down in the past and is sealed away like Exdeath in V. Oh and since this is an odd numbered FF we need to put a submarine in here like there is in III and V" and Nojima worked with that while Tetsuya Takahashi hovered around in the background mumbling about the Zohar and trying to get to Keter.
Is it true that the message of all these game is that the material will _always_ be corrupted no matter what? Because we have instances throughout these games of that NOT been the case, such as the future Eras of 1.999AD and 2.300AD in Chrono Trigger been technological paradises after Lavos was destroyed, and the Machina technology from FFX been ultimately beneficial for the people of Spira (which Kitase has *confirmed* ties into the events of FF7 with the "Ancients" been the descendants of Tidus, Yuna and all the people of FFX). Technology and materialism aren't intrinsically evil in these games, they simply tend to corrupt when the people who rely on them ultimately choose to use technology for self-serving needs, as seen with the Shinra Corporation in FF7.
@@javiervasquez625 I didn't say that it will always corrupt, only that it is susceptible to corruption. Great things can obviously be achieved in the material world but when it is being used for more selfless motivations. In CT Lavos appears in 1999 when humanity is considered at it's apex and the people of the ruined future are left in the hollowed remains. While they did prosper until 1999 that prosperity reliant on the power of Lavos which represents avarice, an obsession with material gain as opposed to the more spiritual motivation of love. Queen Zeal abuses her own daughter to gain power from Lavos and while we're not really giving much info on 1999 it stands to reason that the people of that future were corrupted by Lavos hence why it appeared then to reap the biggest yield. When Lavos is defeated by our team built on love and friendship we are of course lead to believe that the new future will be built on these immaterial aspirations and will be better. FFX main theme is focused on trauma and how it can make people become obsessed with the past and wanting forever to exist (an "endless now" to borrow the phrase from Xenoblade 3) Yevon is dedicated to perpetuating this and it's corrupted with some of it's highest seats being occupied by people who want to live forever. Seymour is another case of an FF villian wanting to become a living "physical god" in the form of Sin. Yevon also covet the machina for themselves, stagnating the world out of a excuse that such technology will bring about devastation. The common theme is that being obsessed with material gain begets bad outcomes whereas being selfless and concerned with the plight of loved ones begets good outcomes. This is regardless of the material situation you find yourself in, whether the most deprived or the more technologically advanced.
@hankhill7827 You got the information on Lavos's appeareance in 1.999AD wrong, as the reason why he appears in this particular year was simply because he had already matured enough after absorbing the Planet's lifeforce, allowing him to finally break out from the earth's crust, in order to consume all life on the surface and birth his "children" who would continue the cycle in other planets. Humanity's evil had nothing to do with his appeareance in such a specific year, as Lavos is able to break out from the earth's crust at several points through the timeline solely because of Crono and co.'s attempt to stop him at earlier points in history. And the people of 1.999AD and 2.300AD were most definitely _not_ evil, as the Security Director from 1.999AD ordered his own men to evacuate into shelters while he remained to assess the devastation left by Lavos's awakening, plus Doan and the people of the Arris Dome were nothing but utterly empathetic to Crono and his party, showing nothing but support and friendship to dare say they were evil in any way. Regarding your point about FFX, that still doesn't deny the fact that the Machina created by the Al-Bhed was completely used for good, been only depicted as evil by the corrupt Church of Yevon who were the only ones responsible for keeping the world of Spira in a stagnant cycle of violence and death. Technology in FFX is 100% used for good, serving as an ironic juxtaposition of what would eventually happen in Gaia, after the people of Spira colonized this new world thousands of years later. True, materialism is bad, we can all agree, but that doesn't mean technology which only improves the quality of life equates to materialism. Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy X are both testament to that fact.
@ You're arguing past me. Nothing I said contradicts anything you said, you even repeat my point at the end "that doesn't mean technology which only improves the quality of life equates to materialism." which is exactly what I meant by "The common theme is that being obsessed with material gain begets bad outcomes whereas being selfless and concerned with the plight of loved ones begets good outcomes. This is regardless of the material situation you find yourself in, whether the most deprived or the more technologically advanced."
Video request: I would love more info on some of the enemy characters that seemed to have more to them, but nothing seems to have come of it. I'm thinking enemies like Snow (the ice lady who has a field model and gives you Alexander), the Vagrid Police (the alien like enemies that seem linked to Jehovah), the Material Keeper, and Christopher, the random enemy with a normal name fought in the Northern Cave. I can't imagine they were anything beyond 'enemy with a minor backstory to them that was cut in the final game' but I've always been curious if there was something more.
"They say she's a monster. That she can peer into the very depths of your soul. That she can become those you hate, those you fear, those you love. And they call her...JENOVA."
This channel has just seemed to spring out of nowhere and just given us an unreal level of FF content of the highest quality! Thank you. I cant wait for more.
I thought I was a hardcore ff7 fan but this channel continues to show me things I didn't know! This guy is really putting in a lot of hard legwork, and I'm amazed. Hope the algorithm is kind, I'm glad I saw this channel!
you know what I like? that, despite already knowing these things, that someone take his time to create an informative video about a beloved videogame on some "obscure" info for all the people to learn. to me is like rewatching a movie I enjoyed or listening multiple times a song I like. thank you.
Finally managed to catch up! This is fantastic, guys! Such a dive on the lore and background on the makings of this masterpiece I love so much! Thank you your work and for giving me the honor to be a small part of it with my music 😊
Another great video, dude! There's a lot of good info here, not just the usual stuff that others have rehashed before. I especially love all the little sprite animations.
The idea of “the jenova” being a part of your mind that lets you use magic is really reminiscent of guardian forces in FF8. I wonder if they iterated on the concept further when planing for 8.
One fascinating thing and a question I always had and we (of course) never got answer of is : Who the hell is that beautiful woman JENOVA shapeshift to before getting ultimately stopped by the Cetras and that we get to see as "JENOVA" appearance for a good part of the game(s)
Good question. Presumably it’s either someone special to one of the Cetra that ultimately stopped Jenova, perhaps a last ditch attempt to ward off a killing blow by looking like the person’s dead wife/sister/daughter/mother or Jenova instinctively shapeshifted into Professor Gast’s dream girl when Shinra’s scientific team broke into the chamber she was buried in. Alternatively that is actually Jenova’s true form, with the monsterous form we fight being a battle transformation. That would actually make most sense if you assume Jenova’s form reverted to whatever it naturally was when killed, and it jives with what we see in the original game where defeating Jenova Birth causes it to revert to the arm it had transformed from, which Cloud recognized as Jenova’s arm.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 Would an alien parasite creature from Hell look like a beautiful woman? Somehow, i have a feeling shapeshifting is very much the explanation for its appeareance in throughout the game.
I always interpreted it as a lost member of the Cetra that it took the form of in order to fool and infiltrate them. So that jenova could slaughter them. Think of how the thing or It shapeshift into dead people to prey on people in their respective works. Same concept.
Another interesting thing is that Sorceress Edea from FFVIII was originally designed by Nomura for FFVII, she was meant to be some sort of Jenova priestess back when they thought of making a cult of Jenova, but they couldn't fit that idea into the main game and scrapped the whole cult plot. Fortunately, she didn't stay canned for long and would soon be repurposed for the next game as it was a very cool design to just throw away. Nomura designed her thinking of Yoshitaka Amano's style and that's why her headpiece has all those colorful and intricate ornaments , something that makes rather unique among Nomura's character designs.
Look Ultimecia horns and face marks then look Bizarro Sephiroth. Is the same character. I think Square have a secret plot behind FF but they not want tell to keep the mistery and magic, like Fumito Ueda with his games
I've just finished watching The Girl Who Leapt Through Time because of this video. It was certainly an interesting watch. Thanks for another informative video.
Genesis popping up inevitably waxing over LOVELESS at 2:45 juxtaposed with the ultimania text revealing his weird obsession actually had roots in the original game was so brilliant as a joke and yet emblematic of your videos' quality in the process. Please, continue making these, dare I ask not even just for FF7 - Those little models running around add so much to what you're saying in my eyes lmao
Happy Sephiroth at the end killed me. 😂 WHAT a FANTASTIC video!! It was flawless, entertaining and gripping all at the same time! Subbed for more great FFVII content. Y'all keep it up now, ya hear!?
My first couple of playthroughs I had missed the optional tapes you can view in Icicle Inn with Ifalna and professor Gast. When I finally found them, I got chills when they described Jenova taking the form of people who had died. Jenova is the real terror here, not Sephiroth.
It's always fascinating to me how Final Fantasy VII went through so many rewrites and changes. I love seeing these behind the scenes and older concepts. It's interesting how this idea of Jenova being a "state of mind" was later used in Xenogears, which was actually the original concept for Final Fantasy VII. Now the series being inspired by "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" completely blew my mind. That's crazy. Amazing video as always!
Lavos from Chrono Trigger is very similar to Jenova as well and this is a game made just before FF7 by the same company and Chrono Trigger actually started as being the next FF after FF6. Finally, 1995 was also the year of the anime Evangelion which is also about an alien coming to Earth long ago and creating shenanigans. This seems that this concept was quite popular at the time. It may have been in the back of the mind of any creators.
@ also I am Sailor Cetra. I’m a dumb old person and accidentally made an account on my computer and an account on my phone. 😂 between this and the clap I’m really showing my intelligence or lack thereof, eh?
As always a great video. Thank you! I would really like to see a video about Hojo on this channel someday. I feel like he's one of the most underrated characters in the game. And he is also my favorite, yes, guilty as charged.
Hojo, the man who views ethics and morals as a suggestion to be thrown quickly in to the bin. It's difficult to ascertain who was the true villain of VII, him or Jenova.
The Hosoda one is from 2006, they're talking about the 1983 live action version. They're both based on the same 1967 book though! And agreed, Hosoda's movies are great, my personal favorite is Wolf Children, although I would rank Summer Wars above it in terms of action.
"You’re fine, Aerith. You got all old man Sephiroth's dominant jenovas. I got all the flawed, recessive jenovas! The only reason I exist is to create you!" "Cloud, chill."
My mind is blown! This video is about jenova but now I want to learn more about the girl who traveled through time! Your videos are amazing??! Idk how you find this stuff! But don’t stop!!!
I really hope the final part of Remake expands on Jenova’s lore some more. Jenova is definitely the most interesting part of FF7 to me and I would love to know more about her. I feel like Rebirth set it up perfectly to expand on Jenova. Also it’s getting more and more difficult to not notice the parallels with FF7 (Remake especially) and Chrono Trigger.
Wouldn't surprise me if Jenova was revealed as hailing from the same planet as Lavos, with FF7, FFX and Chrono Trigger all taking place in the same universe Marvel style. Also, the remake would be perfect way to also address some of the plot details left unadressed in Chrono Trigger/Cross regarding Lavos's origins and wether Jenova is simply just another "Lavos" doing the same thing as its predecessor from Chrono Trigger.
Michael Crichton's Andromeda Strain is a source of inspiration for Jenova as well I think. FF7 does a lot of trying to make rational explanations for what Jenova is, by use of scientist characters and Shinra itself being a high-tech corporation. Andromeda Strain does the same thing - the plot device is a completely made up sci-fi thingummy, but the scientist characters make it all seem realistic. Another great video btw, I really adore the editing and use of in-game assets.
The Jenova battle sequence "appendages arms, knee etc" reminds me of Castlevania Simon's Quest where you have to obtain parts of Dracula and then fight him!! I will be 41 years old in April. 2012 was an amazing year also. 2012 was my favorite year and thats when you revealed that info..
Talking about movies that inspired FFVII, I would love that you make a video about the influence of Gunhed (1989) on FFVII Midgar’s pre rendered backgrounds aesthetic
I’m sorry but I started wheezing and laughing so hard at the “thumb” and “knee” part of the video. It genuinely caught me off guard. To think that we could’ve fought her thumb and knee at some point LOL. Mrs. Potato Head ahh alien. I’m still laughing like an idiot about it as I type this. I really want to make some puns off of it (if I could).
We might branch out in the future, but for the time being this channel is primarily to get out all the FFVII knowledge we gained while working on various projects over the past few years.
I would love to see a game that focuses on Jenova and its species, from the perspective of a different planet in the past, or perhaps even its home world/universe. Something that further navigates its origins and dives deeper into its motives/abilities.
Also you play as a blonde detective with a mysterious connection to the villain, with a black best friend/partner. Some striking similarities to FF7's early ideas.
And here i always thought the concept of Jenova crashing into the world, taking over the planet and sucking up it's resources so that it can launch itself back into space to invade another world came from Chrono Trigger, where Lavos does basically the exact same thing.
Did anyone else interpret that final Queens Blood game in Rebirth with The Emerald Witch vs Shadowblood Queen as a metaphor for Minerva vs Jenova, or just me?
I interpret Rebirth as shit. And since I don't really like to dive my hands in shit, I didn't see any metaphor other than : "It's FF7 but what if it was a pile of shit?" And indeed that's a nice smelly pile of shit. So, yeah... Jenova? I don't know
I thought someone would mention how Jenova seems to be inspired by Lavos, and then Gamera 2 is quoted, by having a story really similar to Lavos as well.
Lavos is arguably even more similar, but we decided to leave it out of this video because we wanted to focus on the two movies explicitly named by the developers.
I akin her to be more like “The Thing” from the movie of the same name. Her planet destruction does seem to come from Lavos though Edit: He mentioned it in the video
@ Oh yeah, no comments about you, I genuinely though it strange for the interviews to not have raised this relation, where it makes me think there was intention on the team to prefer to quote external inspirations than internal inspirations.
@@SamJulesGillians Would a different Lavos spawn be able to destroy Jenova's planet without said planet been able to defend itself via time travel like "the Entity" from Chrono Trigger? (which Masato Kato confirmed is the Earth itself). Somehow, i doubt it.
@@javiervasquez625 not very sure, Lavos seems to incubate a very long time before it awakens to cause its global destruction. What we know from Jenova is that it gets to work quick. Something we don’t know though is Jenova a entire hive mind and true one of its kind or are there multiple Jenova out there conquering planets. We know that Lavos does multiply, so possible it could take over Jenova “Home World”.
Feels like they took this concept and kind of reimagined it for Parasite Eve, except rather than being a part of the brain, it was mitochondria mutations that gave you powers.
Great video. Isn't it interesting how similar in concept Jenova is to Lavos from crono trigger, and Deus from Xenogears? I think the ppl at Square at the time were cooking something big but had to slice it into bits and distribute out into different games.
And now it's become even bigger with the recent revelation that FF7 and FFX take place in the same universe, with the people of Gaia been descendants of the people of Spira from FFX. Wouldn't surprise me if the sequel to FF7 Rebirth ended with a massive twist revealing all SquareEnix games taking place in the same universe.
It's actually very unlikely that Nojima was behind any changes pertaining to Jenova, because Nojima did not join FFVII's development until somewhere around the midpoint, after all the major characters, plotpoints, and scenario had already been formulated(even the quote about the middle of the scenario not being filled out is fairly boorish when you consider that the middle of FFVII are the things that happen after the first vist to Northern Crator, and which is, barring Cloud's memory sequence, still the most plot-sparse part even of the final game). Nojima was the editor for the event team, not the writer for the original game in the way that term is generally understood. He did not "pen the scenario" for FFVII and has been candid about this himself even in a fairly recent video interview released on the official Japanese Square-Enix youtube channel last year. This is also why Nojima was not individually interviewed for the Kaitai Shinsho's story-section. Characterizing him as joining the team "early enough" to make any major contributions to the story is extremely spurious when you consider that FFVII released in Japan in January of 97, and only took approximately a year to develop(precisely because most major decisions were made in pre-planning for which Nojima was not present). The "hot-blooded detective joe" story has also been repudiated by Sakaguchi, who insists this is Nomura mixing up the conceptual stages of FFVII with PE. This isn't even accounting for the fact that Nojima has proven to be extremely blurry on details pertaining to VII's development. In one interview, he mixes up the development of VII with VIII by claiming Sakaguchi wasn't present for much of VII's development because he was busy working in Hawaii, this despite the fact that Squaresoft's Hawaii offices didn't exist at the time, and there's official records dating this to the period of VIII's development, not VII's. For whatever reason, non of which I wish to speculate too much on except to say that marketing for the compilation probably has some impact on how SE employees choose to speak of FFVII's development to flatter their creative choices and careers long term, neither Nojima and Nomura have particularly good track-records speaking accurately or consistently about that period of time, so it'd useful to be fairly critical of their statements in isolation.
To get a better idea of Nojima's involvement in FFVII and the state of the project at the time he joined, please take a look at the material assembled on the Shinra Archaeology website. This topic is unfortunately too broad for us to discuss in the comments section, but you'll definitely get some new insight from these resources. Nomura, Kitase, and Nojima have all recounted Sakaguchi's initial plot proposal for FFVII featuring a detective and a train robbery scene. It's certainly possible the three of them could be misremembering. At any rate, Nomura's recollection of how he came up with the game's pursuit theme is all we can rely on here.
@LastElixirProductions I'm familiar with the relevant materials and have been since long before that site was up and running, seeing as I am fluent in Japanese, sit on the original Japanese materials(and have for years), as well as spent several years working in Japan with multiple of the original creators of game =) My perspective here is not a product of being unfamiliar with this material. If anything, I'm probably more familiar with the early history of Squaresoft than any of the project managers at that site.
@LastElixirProductions It seems my comment was deleted so I'll try again: I'm very familiar with those materials as, being fluent in Japanese and having lived and worked there for half my life, and sitting on the original Japanese materials, I've been familiar with them since long before that site was ever a thing. Moreover, I used to work with several of the developers for the original title and other Squaresoft employees, so, at the risk of sounding arrogant, it's very unlikely that I know less about the development history of FFVII than any of the associated managers of that project =)
We appreciate your interest and expertise on the subject. With the help of our members, both in Western countries and Japan, we've been able to unearth lots of resources not widely available to the public. Definitely worth a look if you're interested. Conversely, we're always interested in getting our hands on new material to archive, if you're willing to share!
@@LastElixirProductions I'm sure you do, and I laud your work. It still doesn't change the fact that the contents of the video paints, in part, an inaccurate picture of the development process that could probably do with revision or rewording. Unearthed materials or not, the most important part of investigative journalism is to produce a narrative that makes sense through a process of cross-referencing all available statements with all material facts, because it's very common for isolated statements to be wrong in some sense. For example, when it's commonly reported - as an extension of people not matching testimonies to material facts - that Nojima was, together with Kitase, "responsible for coming up with Avalanche" despite the fact that this isn't possible because Nojima is, again on video, saying that he was shown the bombing mission when he was hired for the team, then something has to give. He cannot both have come up with Avalanche and been shown a video of the complete bombing mission as a part of his hiring process. That's why it's important to be critical of testimonies. In any case, good luck in your future endeavors. 👍
One thing that you have glossed over which can be considered important. Jenova has no biological sex, Ifalna refers to Jenova as a He and an It. The reason it looks female; the first Cetra Jenova was able to infect was a woman.
Just like Lavos from Chrono Trigger. All these alien parasites share the commonality of lacking gender, leading to the characters in the story referring to them as an it rather than a he or she.
I consider Jenova as "upgraded" Lavos from Chrono Trigger, more mysterious and complicated but still very dangerous. The concept of a powerful being which fell from the sky ages ago was again used in Xenogears with Deus (and Xenogears started its life as a Chrono Trigger sequel and Lucca has a cameo in Lahan village). Ideas were often recycled at Squaresoft with their insane output of masterpieces in the 90's, not to mention Nomura "borrowing" Tifa's design and also measurements from some R18 visual novel.
I just can't believe that The Thing wasn't involved. Jenova pretty much IS The Thing. Excavated from the tundra by researchers, is an alien that can infect people, turn them into monsters, shapeshift, take on memories, & even a single cell of The Thing has The Thing's abilities. Add some religious allusions & refer to it in the feminine, & that's Jenova. And it's mostly just Sephiroth who refers to it as female, which always gave me Psycho vibes with how obsessed he was with his "mother." I also thought you were going to go into the implications of what Jenova is in-universe, but I guess there aren't really any official sources clarifying that, & it's mostly down to if you accept certain guesswork based on things throughout the Compilation. But I feel like the implication made by Advent Children is that Jenova is a kind of parasite that goes from Lifestream to Lifestream, soaking up its power before continuing on. Sephiroth says in that movie that his plan is just like what Jenova used to do. It's also similar to the plot of Spirits Within, which used a lot of similar concepts to FF7, albeit poorly. In terms of the original game, there's not as much pointing to it, though there is the idea that Jenova can't die or return to the planet.
@@TheLithp Just like Lavos from Chrono Trigger who does the same, albeit through its "offsprings" which repeat the process across millions of planets across the universe.
I believe FFVII is heavily influenced by Anime and Manga. Cloud/Zack and Sephiroth are look a lot at first glance like Guts and Griffith from Berserk. Also there relationship is somewhat similar. Furthermore the look of the game reminds me in parts extremely of Akira. The bike chase especially. But also the confinement of Jenova reminds of the "Prison" of Akira. And there is of course Neon Gensis Evangelion. That influence is overall a little pit more fussier and more a vibe thing but there are also some obvious examples. The Weapon attack on Junon is like an Angel attack on Neo Tokyo 3. Considering Jenova. Jenova reminds me a little bit of Lilith of Neon Genesis. An alien(?) life form hidden away by an organization. There are also artificial humans and it is heavily implied, they were created in parts from that mysterious life form not unlike Sephiroth form Jenova. Speaking of which the Sefirot or Tree of life is an recurring image in the show. No, there is no doubt in my mind. Without Neon Genesis Evangelion FFVII would look and feel different.
I recently beat ff7 again for like the third time after a couple of years. And despite knowing the story, I’m constantly reminded how fucking good the story and game is every time I play it.
If Jenova speaks in FF7R part 3, I need her to have the Cart Titan voice from Attack on Titan. Make her creepy, scary and memorable! Example : ua-cam.com/video/qlWPOLWCI2s/v-deo.html
This video is kinda surprised me. First I thought it gonna be a lore video about Jenova that I’m not really interested since it’s already explained in the game but it’s ending up about behind the scene. Second I didn’t realized that The Girl Leap Thought Time is that old I always thought the anime version is the first one. (But look like the ending is almost completely different.)
The original concept for Jenova bears some resemblance to the Mitochondrias in Parasite Eve, which funnily enough ended being adapted by Square themselves not so many years later. PE was originally a japanese novel later adapted into a movie, and the games are non-canon sequels to the original works.
I always found it interesting how FF7 kept its “fantasy” in a game that was more industrial punk contemporary; by making the cetra Mages using magic to fight an other worldly, other galaxy alien. It’d be like if the alien xenomorph queen was in Harry Potter
I like how Jenova has a lot, intentionally to some extent I'm sure regardless if confirmed or not, with John Carpenter's 1982 film "The Thing". Her/It being some sort of shapeshifting cosmic horror from beyond the stars that crashed in the planet's arctic millennia ago only to be discovered many centuries later. Only major difference being that Jenova got to work soon after arriving, whereas the Thing is forced to slumber for over 100,000 years. Both of them being terrifying in how the operate, the origins are unknown, same as it's purpose, how many worlds these vile beasts have destroyed/assimilated, and if there's possibly more of these aliens out there.
@@gjtrue Another major difference between The Thing and Jenova is the ability of the planet Gaia "invaded" by Jenova to protect itself, whereas the Earth from the Thing is obviously incapable of doing so. Once an active threat at all times (The Thing), while the other is been stopped by the planet itself (FF7).
I don't think that the original draft and the final script for JENOVA are mutually exclusive. It could simply been written as some unnamed being where the cast gave that name due to how similar it was to the in-game brain organ thing. If anything, it made it even more mysterious and menacing. Parts of the original JENOVA scripts seem to be in the final game, though, with the Mako and lifestream bits being very closely to the ancient jenova thing. To be frank, most of the early/scrapped FF7 seems more coherent than the final PS1 version
7:10 Also at one point the party was going to fight Jenova's ears in a scrapped dungeon called Drakongrace Shinjuku. I think that concept got revisited later in a game that came out a few months ago; I think it was Final Re Fantasy O or something?
Great video Aside from The Thing (or so i thought, like many others), i am convinced some elements were lifted from the story of Chrono Trigger for the final version of FF VII. Lavos is a parasitic extaterrestrial being sleeping for centuries after crashing on earth on/inside a meteor. And the game involve time travel like the movie you presented so maybe everything is tied. *FF VIII SPOILERS* The early idea of Materia being a vessel for the will of Jenova (and the inevitable twist that the main characters have been using them since the beginning of the game, making them feel like puppets) reminds me of the twist from FF VIII, when you discover that the repeated use of Guardian Forces; Ifrit, Shiva etc is slowly erasing your memories, explaining some plot holes. And you cant do shit without them so..
i always had a theory, sicne 1998 (when i played ff7) Jenova is from the same 'race' as Lavos, they're both a interestellar paraside that inhabits planets and drain its life, and move to another planet to repeat the cycle.
@@Lore_XiV69 Add to that Kitase's confirmation that FF7 takes place in the same universe as FFX, and we got ourselves a massive MCU universe of interconnected storylines.
We were going to hold off on releasing this till a bit later, but seeing as it's Rebirth PC day we figured we'd join in on the FFVII fun.
Love your content!
God Bless your channel.
You should do a deep dive into aeris/aerith, and the theories surrounding her name.
Either way, I'm glad it's here and that this channel is here. You make some really great content that UA-cam definitely needs more of. I really enjoy classic game videos as it is. If you make them about my favorite game of all, I'm cancelling everything on my schedule for the immediate future. 😅
I don't understand how this channel comes out of nowhere and delivers quality videos that seem to require an unreal amount of research. Loved every video so far.
The secret is that the unreal amount of research has been happening for years and we're only now making videos out of it.
They are the shinraarchaeology and the lifestream guys they have been doing translation of supplementary material about FFVII for ages not to mention deep dives into the OG, the compilation the remakes.
@@Ronin_2004Look who it is! 😉
@@Ronin_2004 Wish they would the same level of passion on the _other_ JRGPs written by SquareSoft, including the likes of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross which sadly having been the love they deserve.
@@javiervasquez625 go ask the chrono trigger community they cover FFVII cause they are passionate about it.
The quality on these videos are second to none. I hope you explore more games in the series.
Jenova was always the most fascinating aspect of FF7 to me.
There was just something super creepy and unsettling about her(it?), and I think they could've gone even farther with it.
I've always thought a prequel featuring Jenova would be really cool, something like a horror fantasy game.
@@BenjaminGoose The issue with Jenova and cosmic horrors is that the more you explain and show about them, the less effective they become.
It would only work if they kept the mystique.
@@BenjaminGoosesince there is already jenova birth, life and death
how about jenova: conception
@@planescaped Yeah, I definitely agree. The mystery is part of what makes it so great, it leaves a lot to the imagination.
She/it always reminded me of Lavos from Chrono Trigger, making me wonder if the two could be related and if in fact there's the chance that Chrono Trigger, FF7 and FFX do in fact take place in the same universe.
Another banger! Keep it up bro!
I would love to see a deep dive into Lucrecia and Vincent!
Hey, AGREED!!!!!
One thing overlooked in this fantastic video is some of the themes and ideas that are similar in other Square games. The obvious one being Chrono Trigger which was the game co-directed by Kitase before he directed FFVII. In that game an alien lifeform impacts the planet in the past and has negative influence on the human race even in it's hibernated sleep. This plot device again occurs in Xenogears which was the basis for the draft that morphed into FFVII with Xenogears becoming a separate project later.
The common theme or trope of them all is the concept of the demiurge or false "fleshy" god who is corrupted by their own materialism. The basic idea being that anything material is flawed and will rot and fade away whereas the immaterial is incorruptible and pure. These themes are pretty universal and can be applied to the plot of almost anything but given that Xenogears is so explicit with these ideas I can't shake that it wasn't with FFVII too.
The relationship between JENOVA and Sephiroth is like the one between Sophia and her child the Demiurge who she raises to believe is the true god and keeps him blind to the truth. So much of the story's plot revolves around people being corrupted by material greed. JENOVA and Sephiroth are motivated to become a "physical god" that is the only existence in control of everything. Shinra is pretty self-explanatory and I feel a line in the Remake from Tseng is very telling when he talks to child Aerith about the prophecy of the Promised Land and how Shinra take it at face value, that the Promised Land is a "physical place". The reality is that the Promised Land is a spiritual, immaterial place that can never be corrupted.
All that said, it's probably impossible to know where one person's idea began and another begins. It's possible that Nojima came up with the idea to make JENOVA a being or something and then Kitase re-joined with "oh we had an alien in my last game, let's make it an alien that crashes down in the past and is sealed away like Exdeath in V. Oh and since this is an odd numbered FF we need to put a submarine in here like there is in III and V" and Nojima worked with that while Tetsuya Takahashi hovered around in the background mumbling about the Zohar and trying to get to Keter.
Xenogears was supposed to be ff7
Is it true that the message of all these game is that the material will _always_ be corrupted no matter what? Because we have instances throughout these games of that NOT been the case, such as the future Eras of 1.999AD and 2.300AD in Chrono Trigger been technological paradises after Lavos was destroyed, and the Machina technology from FFX been ultimately beneficial for the people of Spira (which Kitase has *confirmed* ties into the events of FF7 with the "Ancients" been the descendants of Tidus, Yuna and all the people of FFX). Technology and materialism aren't intrinsically evil in these games, they simply tend to corrupt when the people who rely on them ultimately choose to use technology for self-serving needs, as seen with the Shinra Corporation in FF7.
@@javiervasquez625 I didn't say that it will always corrupt, only that it is susceptible to corruption. Great things can obviously be achieved in the material world but when it is being used for more selfless motivations.
In CT Lavos appears in 1999 when humanity is considered at it's apex and the people of the ruined future are left in the hollowed remains. While they did prosper until 1999 that prosperity reliant on the power of Lavos which represents avarice, an obsession with material gain as opposed to the more spiritual motivation of love. Queen Zeal abuses her own daughter to gain power from Lavos and while we're not really giving much info on 1999 it stands to reason that the people of that future were corrupted by Lavos hence why it appeared then to reap the biggest yield. When Lavos is defeated by our team built on love and friendship we are of course lead to believe that the new future will be built on these immaterial aspirations and will be better.
FFX main theme is focused on trauma and how it can make people become obsessed with the past and wanting forever to exist (an "endless now" to borrow the phrase from Xenoblade 3) Yevon is dedicated to perpetuating this and it's corrupted with some of it's highest seats being occupied by people who want to live forever. Seymour is another case of an FF villian wanting to become a living "physical god" in the form of Sin. Yevon also covet the machina for themselves, stagnating the world out of a excuse that such technology will bring about devastation.
The common theme is that being obsessed with material gain begets bad outcomes whereas being selfless and concerned with the plight of loved ones begets good outcomes. This is regardless of the material situation you find yourself in, whether the most deprived or the more technologically advanced.
@hankhill7827 You got the information on Lavos's appeareance in 1.999AD wrong, as the reason why he appears in this particular year was simply because he had already matured enough after absorbing the Planet's lifeforce, allowing him to finally break out from the earth's crust, in order to consume all life on the surface and birth his "children" who would continue the cycle in other planets. Humanity's evil had nothing to do with his appeareance in such a specific year, as Lavos is able to break out from the earth's crust at several points through the timeline solely because of Crono and co.'s attempt to stop him at earlier points in history. And the people of 1.999AD and 2.300AD were most definitely _not_ evil, as the Security Director from 1.999AD ordered his own men to evacuate into shelters while he remained to assess the devastation left by Lavos's awakening, plus Doan and the people of the Arris Dome were nothing but utterly empathetic to Crono and his party, showing nothing but support and friendship to dare say they were evil in any way.
Regarding your point about FFX, that still doesn't deny the fact that the Machina created by the Al-Bhed was completely used for good, been only depicted as evil by the corrupt Church of Yevon who were the only ones responsible for keeping the world of Spira in a stagnant cycle of violence and death. Technology in FFX is 100% used for good, serving as an ironic juxtaposition of what would eventually happen in Gaia, after the people of Spira colonized this new world thousands of years later.
True, materialism is bad, we can all agree, but that doesn't mean technology which only improves the quality of life equates to materialism. Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy X are both testament to that fact.
@ You're arguing past me. Nothing I said contradicts anything you said, you even repeat my point at the end "that doesn't mean technology which only improves the quality of life equates to materialism." which is exactly what I meant by "The common theme is that being obsessed with material gain begets bad outcomes whereas being selfless and concerned with the plight of loved ones begets good outcomes. This is regardless of the material situation you find yourself in, whether the most deprived or the more technologically advanced."
I like how proud Sephiroth looks, holding up his mommy's head in the thumbnail.:)
"Sephiroth, that's the 7th time this week you've shown Jenova to the class."
@@MegadeathAdams “But teacher it’s bring your parents to school day.”
Good grief.
His mother is lucrecia.
Video request: I would love more info on some of the enemy characters that seemed to have more to them, but nothing seems to have come of it. I'm thinking enemies like Snow (the ice lady who has a field model and gives you Alexander), the Vagrid Police (the alien like enemies that seem linked to Jehovah), the Material Keeper, and Christopher, the random enemy with a normal name fought in the Northern Cave.
I can't imagine they were anything beyond 'enemy with a minor backstory to them that was cut in the final game' but I've always been curious if there was something more.
Thanks for the deep dive on Jenova's origins! Keep the great videos comin'!
"They say she's a monster. That she can peer into the very depths of your soul. That she can become those you hate, those you fear, those you love. And they call her...JENOVA."
I thought they called it... LAVOS.
She’s crazy. Don’t listen to her. She sits on a throne of lies.
@@Probably_CLOUD Or evil.
Although I guess you can say that she’s *among us*
(Okay, I’ll leave.)
This channel has just seemed to spring out of nowhere and just given us an unreal level of FF content of the highest quality! Thank you. I cant wait for more.
The algorithm has sorted me out with a few of your vids in the last couple of weeks.
Really enjoying the content.
Have a like and a sub.
I thought I was a hardcore ff7 fan but this channel continues to show me things I didn't know! This guy is really putting in a lot of hard legwork, and I'm amazed. Hope the algorithm is kind, I'm glad I saw this channel!
you know what I like? that, despite already knowing these things, that someone take his time to create an informative video about a beloved videogame on some "obscure" info for all the people to learn.
to me is like rewatching a movie I enjoyed or listening multiple times a song I like. thank you.
The Gamera 2 influence was a factoid I did not know, but is fascinating!
I've been watch your videos (nearly) since the beginning of your Channel. And I really really like them. Keep going❤👍
Finally managed to catch up! This is fantastic, guys! Such a dive on the lore and background on the makings of this masterpiece I love so much! Thank you your work and for giving me the honor to be a small part of it with my music 😊
Another great video, dude! There's a lot of good info here, not just the usual stuff that others have rehashed before. I especially love all the little sprite animations.
The idea of “the jenova” being a part of your mind that lets you use magic is really reminiscent of guardian forces in FF8. I wonder if they iterated on the concept further when planing for 8.
Gave me strong Parasite Eve vibes
One fascinating thing and a question I always had and we (of course) never got answer of is : Who the hell is that beautiful woman JENOVA shapeshift to before getting ultimately stopped by the Cetras and that we get to see as "JENOVA" appearance for a good part of the game(s)
That's minerva
Good question. Presumably it’s either someone special to one of the Cetra that ultimately stopped Jenova, perhaps a last ditch attempt to ward off a killing blow by looking like the person’s dead wife/sister/daughter/mother or Jenova instinctively shapeshifted into Professor Gast’s dream girl when Shinra’s scientific team broke into the chamber she was buried in.
Alternatively that is actually Jenova’s true form, with the monsterous form we fight being a battle transformation. That would actually make most sense if you assume Jenova’s form reverted to whatever it naturally was when killed, and it jives with what we see in the original game where defeating Jenova Birth causes it to revert to the arm it had transformed from, which Cloud recognized as Jenova’s arm.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 Would an alien parasite creature from Hell look like a beautiful woman? Somehow, i have a feeling shapeshifting is very much the explanation for its appeareance in throughout the game.
I always interpreted it as a lost member of the Cetra that it took the form of in order to fool and infiltrate them. So that jenova could slaughter them. Think of how the thing or It shapeshift into dead people to prey on people in their respective works. Same concept.
Another interesting thing is that Sorceress Edea from FFVIII was originally designed by Nomura for FFVII, she was meant to be some sort of Jenova priestess back when they thought of making a cult of Jenova, but they couldn't fit that idea into the main game and scrapped the whole cult plot. Fortunately, she didn't stay canned for long and would soon be repurposed for the next game as it was a very cool design to just throw away. Nomura designed her thinking of Yoshitaka Amano's style and that's why her headpiece has all those colorful and intricate ornaments , something that makes rather unique among Nomura's character designs.
yeah, even her theme in FF8 still has bits of music from FF7, at least in the beginning part
Look Ultimecia horns and face marks then look Bizarro Sephiroth. Is the same character. I think Square have a secret plot behind FF but they not want tell to keep the mistery and magic, like Fumito Ueda with his games
These vids are friggin amazing! Lots of fun knowledge w/ touches of humor and adorable animations.
I've just finished watching The Girl Who Leapt Through Time because of this video. It was certainly an interesting watch.
Thanks for another informative video.
Genesis popping up inevitably waxing over LOVELESS at 2:45 juxtaposed with the ultimania text revealing his weird obsession actually had roots in the original game was so brilliant as a joke and yet emblematic of your videos' quality in the process.
Please, continue making these, dare I ask not even just for FF7 - Those little models running around add so much to what you're saying in my eyes lmao
We're glad all the nuance of it got through
Happy Sephiroth at the end killed me. 😂
WHAT a FANTASTIC video!! It was flawless, entertaining and gripping all at the same time! Subbed for more great FFVII content. Y'all keep it up now, ya hear!?
I love the fact he's holding not only a faceless Jenova head, but also a very BLUE one!
My first couple of playthroughs I had missed the optional tapes you can view in Icicle Inn with Ifalna and professor Gast. When I finally found them, I got chills when they described Jenova taking the form of people who had died. Jenova is the real terror here, not Sephiroth.
Sephiroth became a terror _because_ of Jenova, so it all ties back to the origin of his powers at the end of the game.
@@javiervasquez625 Exactly. If it wasn't for Jenova, Sephiroth wouldn't have powers, let alone be alive.
Thanks for bringing all these threads together in one great video. Keep up the good work.
All of these years, I thought it was canon that each Jenova battle was a piece of her. I guess I extrapolated from that line they left in!
Fantastic video my friend. Really well edited and put together. Well done
It's always fascinating to me how Final Fantasy VII went through so many rewrites and changes. I love seeing these behind the scenes and older concepts. It's interesting how this idea of Jenova being a "state of mind" was later used in Xenogears, which was actually the original concept for Final Fantasy VII.
Now the series being inspired by "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" completely blew my mind. That's crazy.
Amazing video as always!
Lavos from Chrono Trigger is very similar to Jenova as well and this is a game made just before FF7 by the same company and Chrono Trigger actually started as being the next FF after FF6.
Finally, 1995 was also the year of the anime Evangelion which is also about an alien coming to Earth long ago and creating shenanigans.
This seems that this concept was quite popular at the time. It may have been in the back of the mind of any creators.
Slow clap from me. These videos are SO well done. I get excited every time I see a new video has posted!
You know slow clap is a sarcastic clap?
@@appleid3151no?! I grew up in band and orchestra and a slow clap was always for a job INCREDIBLY well done. Like bowing down but with your hands lol
@mikaylamatz ah no mate unless I'm mistaken slow clap is a sarcastic one. I get what your saying though like a "bravo" clap
@ LOL OOPS. whelp.
@ also I am Sailor Cetra. I’m a dumb old person and accidentally made an account on my computer and an account on my phone. 😂 between this and the clap I’m really showing my intelligence or lack thereof, eh?
I always just figured weird interstellar aliens who will go on to destroy the planet is just what JRPGs do. Lavos, Giygas, Jenova...
@@Showsni It's become a common trope in japanese pop culture by this point, so it's no wonder why we keep seeing all throughout japanese videogames.
As always a great video. Thank you! I would really like to see a video about Hojo on this channel someday. I feel like he's one of the most underrated characters in the game. And he is also my favorite, yes, guilty as charged.
Hojo, the man who views ethics and morals as a suggestion to be thrown quickly in to the bin. It's difficult to ascertain who was the true villain of VII, him or Jenova.
Another banging video! Still one of the greatest games ever made! Even all these years later I still go back for playthroughs! Love it!
loving your content! so original
That was excellent! Refreshing info. Thank you!
Your work is outstanding. You teach me so much! I'll be sure to check out _The Girl Who Leapt Through Time._
So surprised! The Girl Who Leapt Through Time is fantastic
I highly recommend film director Mamoru Hosoda's other works
The Hosoda one is from 2006, they're talking about the 1983 live action version. They're both based on the same 1967 book though! And agreed, Hosoda's movies are great, my personal favorite is Wolf Children, although I would rank Summer Wars above it in terms of action.
Wow what a deep dive! Well done 👽
Your videos are incredible. Please keep them coming
My fav entity/character in FF7, excited for this!
Congrats on the sponsorship, but I think you've gained viewers because your ideas and explanations are great
We do not have and are not seeking sponsorships, but thank you for the praise!
"You’re fine, Aerith. You got all old man Sephiroth's dominant jenovas. I got all the flawed, recessive jenovas! The only reason I exist is to create you!"
"Cloud, chill."
4:18-4:19
I _love_ the way you showed which syllables correspond to which kanji in Kazushige Nojima's name. _So_ classy!
My mind is blown! This video is about jenova but now I want to learn more about the girl who traveled through time! Your videos are amazing??! Idk how you find this stuff! But don’t stop!!!
I really hope the final part of Remake expands on Jenova’s lore some more. Jenova is definitely the most interesting part of FF7 to me and I would love to know more about her. I feel like Rebirth set it up perfectly to expand on Jenova.
Also it’s getting more and more difficult to not notice the parallels with FF7 (Remake especially) and Chrono Trigger.
Wouldn't surprise me if Jenova was revealed as hailing from the same planet as Lavos, with FF7, FFX and Chrono Trigger all taking place in the same universe Marvel style. Also, the remake would be perfect way to also address some of the plot details left unadressed in Chrono Trigger/Cross regarding Lavos's origins and wether Jenova is simply just another "Lavos" doing the same thing as its predecessor from Chrono Trigger.
0:30 I see what you did there
well it's true...
Amazing content! Thank you so much
Keep up the good work guys.
Michael Crichton's Andromeda Strain is a source of inspiration for Jenova as well I think.
FF7 does a lot of trying to make rational explanations for what Jenova is, by use of scientist characters and Shinra itself being a high-tech corporation. Andromeda Strain does the same thing - the plot device is a completely made up sci-fi thingummy, but the scientist characters make it all seem realistic.
Another great video btw, I really adore the editing and use of in-game assets.
The Jenova battle sequence "appendages arms, knee etc" reminds me of Castlevania Simon's Quest where you have to obtain parts of Dracula and then fight him!! I will be 41 years old in April. 2012 was an amazing year also. 2012 was my favorite year and thats when you revealed that info..
Talking about movies that inspired FFVII, I would love that you make a video about the influence of Gunhed (1989) on FFVII Midgar’s pre rendered backgrounds aesthetic
I’m sorry but I started wheezing and laughing so hard at the “thumb” and “knee” part of the video. It genuinely caught me off guard. To think that we could’ve fought her thumb and knee at some point LOL. Mrs. Potato Head ahh alien. I’m still laughing like an idiot about it as I type this. I really want to make some puns off of it (if I could).
I love this channel! ❤
God Bless your channel.
Nice work! Do you plan on making videos about other FF games too? Subbed!
We might branch out in the future, but for the time being this channel is primarily to get out all the FFVII knowledge we gained while working on various projects over the past few years.
I would love to see a game that focuses on Jenova and its species, from the perspective of a different planet in the past, or perhaps even its home world/universe. Something that further navigates its origins and dives deeper into its motives/abilities.
Great content! I see also some similarities between Jenova and Eve from Parasite Eve, released by Square a year after.
Also you play as a blonde detective with a mysterious connection to the villain, with a black best friend/partner. Some striking similarities to FF7's early ideas.
eve is a L3db!an Eldrith entity
@@jeremyabbott4537That's true!
Lavos-2 got a new video! Yay!
I’m sure fans would luv to see a spin-off showing how Jenova spread her reign of terror to try and annihilate the Ancients.
And here i always thought the concept of Jenova crashing into the world, taking over the planet and sucking up it's resources so that it can launch itself back into space to invade another world came from Chrono Trigger, where Lavos does basically the exact same thing.
Did anyone else interpret that final Queens Blood game in Rebirth with The Emerald Witch vs Shadowblood Queen as a metaphor for Minerva vs Jenova, or just me?
ya i think it was implied but its been a while since i played that now!
I interpret Rebirth as shit. And since I don't really like to dive my hands in shit, I didn't see any metaphor other than : "It's FF7 but what if it was a pile of shit?" And indeed that's a nice smelly pile of shit.
So, yeah... Jenova? I don't know
@@RémyD-w7tdamn how sad
I thought it was obvious since it was quite on the nose.
@RémyD-w7t No one asked
I thought someone would mention how Jenova seems to be inspired by Lavos, and then Gamera 2 is quoted, by having a story really similar to Lavos as well.
Lavos is arguably even more similar, but we decided to leave it out of this video because we wanted to focus on the two movies explicitly named by the developers.
I akin her to be more like “The Thing” from the movie of the same name. Her planet destruction does seem to come from Lavos though
Edit: He mentioned it in the video
@ Oh yeah, no comments about you, I genuinely though it strange for the interviews to not have raised this relation, where it makes me think there was intention on the team to prefer to quote external inspirations than internal inspirations.
@@SamJulesGillians Would a different Lavos spawn be able to destroy Jenova's planet without said planet been able to defend itself via time travel like "the Entity" from Chrono Trigger? (which Masato Kato confirmed is the Earth itself). Somehow, i doubt it.
@@javiervasquez625 not very sure, Lavos seems to incubate a very long time before it awakens to cause its global destruction. What we know from Jenova is that it gets to work quick. Something we don’t know though is Jenova a entire hive mind and true one of its kind or are there multiple Jenova out there conquering planets. We know that Lavos does multiply, so possible it could take over Jenova “Home World”.
Feels like they took this concept and kind of reimagined it for Parasite Eve, except rather than being a part of the brain, it was mitochondria mutations that gave you powers.
Wow i subscribed to this channel the exact moment this video dropped. Great insights into the game, keep it up!
Great video. Isn't it interesting how similar in concept Jenova is to Lavos from crono trigger, and Deus from Xenogears? I think the ppl at Square at the time were cooking something big but had to slice it into bits and distribute out into different games.
And now it's become even bigger with the recent revelation that FF7 and FFX take place in the same universe, with the people of Gaia been descendants of the people of Spira from FFX. Wouldn't surprise me if the sequel to FF7 Rebirth ended with a massive twist revealing all SquareEnix games taking place in the same universe.
Really feel like you could also attribute the WEAPONs from the Kaiju genre as well.
It's actually very unlikely that Nojima was behind any changes pertaining to Jenova, because Nojima did not join FFVII's development until somewhere around the midpoint, after all the major characters, plotpoints, and scenario had already been formulated(even the quote about the middle of the scenario not being filled out is fairly boorish when you consider that the middle of FFVII are the things that happen after the first vist to Northern Crator, and which is, barring Cloud's memory sequence, still the most plot-sparse part even of the final game). Nojima was the editor for the event team, not the writer for the original game in the way that term is generally understood. He did not "pen the scenario" for FFVII and has been candid about this himself even in a fairly recent video interview released on the official Japanese Square-Enix youtube channel last year. This is also why Nojima was not individually interviewed for the Kaitai Shinsho's story-section.
Characterizing him as joining the team "early enough" to make any major contributions to the story is extremely spurious when you consider that FFVII released in Japan in January of 97, and only took approximately a year to develop(precisely because most major decisions were made in pre-planning for which Nojima was not present).
The "hot-blooded detective joe" story has also been repudiated by Sakaguchi, who insists this is Nomura mixing up the conceptual stages of FFVII with PE.
This isn't even accounting for the fact that Nojima has proven to be extremely blurry on details pertaining to VII's development. In one interview, he mixes up the development of VII with VIII by claiming Sakaguchi wasn't present for much of VII's development because he was busy working in Hawaii, this despite the fact that Squaresoft's Hawaii offices didn't exist at the time, and there's official records dating this to the period of VIII's development, not VII's.
For whatever reason, non of which I wish to speculate too much on except to say that marketing for the compilation probably has some impact on how SE employees choose to speak of FFVII's development to flatter their creative choices and careers long term, neither Nojima and Nomura have particularly good track-records speaking accurately or consistently about that period of time, so it'd useful to be fairly critical of their statements in isolation.
To get a better idea of Nojima's involvement in FFVII and the state of the project at the time he joined, please take a look at the material assembled on the Shinra Archaeology website. This topic is unfortunately too broad for us to discuss in the comments section, but you'll definitely get some new insight from these resources. Nomura, Kitase, and Nojima have all recounted Sakaguchi's initial plot proposal for FFVII featuring a detective and a train robbery scene. It's certainly possible the three of them could be misremembering. At any rate, Nomura's recollection of how he came up with the game's pursuit theme is all we can rely on here.
@LastElixirProductions
I'm familiar with the relevant materials and have been since long before that site was up and running, seeing as I am fluent in Japanese, sit on the original Japanese materials(and have for years), as well as spent several years working in Japan with multiple of the original creators of game =)
My perspective here is not a product of being unfamiliar with this material. If anything, I'm probably more familiar with the early history of Squaresoft than any of the project managers at that site.
@LastElixirProductions
It seems my comment was deleted so I'll try again:
I'm very familiar with those materials as, being fluent in Japanese and having lived and worked there for half my life, and sitting on the original Japanese materials, I've been familiar with them since long before that site was ever a thing.
Moreover, I used to work with several of the developers for the original title and other Squaresoft employees, so, at the risk of sounding arrogant, it's very unlikely that I know less about the development history of FFVII than any of the associated managers of that project =)
We appreciate your interest and expertise on the subject. With the help of our members, both in Western countries and Japan, we've been able to unearth lots of resources not widely available to the public. Definitely worth a look if you're interested. Conversely, we're always interested in getting our hands on new material to archive, if you're willing to share!
@@LastElixirProductions
I'm sure you do, and I laud your work. It still doesn't change the fact that the contents of the video paints, in part, an inaccurate picture of the development process that could probably do with revision or rewording.
Unearthed materials or not, the most important part of investigative journalism is to produce a narrative that makes sense through a process of cross-referencing all available statements with all material facts, because it's very common for isolated statements to be wrong in some sense.
For example, when it's commonly reported - as an extension of people not matching testimonies to material facts - that Nojima was, together with Kitase, "responsible for coming up with Avalanche" despite the fact that this isn't possible because Nojima is, again on video, saying that he was shown the bombing mission when he was hired for the team, then something has to give. He cannot both have come up with Avalanche and been shown a video of the complete bombing mission as a part of his hiring process. That's why it's important to be critical of testimonies.
In any case, good luck in your future endeavors. 👍
Jenova is if The Thing copied a species of magic using espers and got frozen as a last resort.
It's all connected, FF is just a massive MCU styled universe where all SquareSoft/SquareEnix games take place in.
I've always described Jenova as "The Thing" but with big ol' anime titties.
Great research, thank you!
Where.
Can I get.
THIS BACKGROUND MUSIC?!
It's listed in the description
Thanks for the video
One thing that you have glossed over which can be considered important.
Jenova has no biological sex, Ifalna refers to Jenova as a He and an It.
The reason it looks female; the first Cetra Jenova was able to infect was a woman.
Just like Lavos from Chrono Trigger. All these alien parasites share the commonality of lacking gender, leading to the characters in the story referring to them as an it rather than a he or she.
@@drunkdrag0n Just like Lavos from Chrono Trigger, they don't know wether it's a he or she, leading to all characters using it instead.
@@javiervasquez625 Yep.
I consider Jenova as "upgraded" Lavos from Chrono Trigger, more mysterious and complicated but still very dangerous. The concept of a powerful being which fell from the sky ages ago was again used in Xenogears with Deus (and Xenogears started its life as a Chrono Trigger sequel and Lucca has a cameo in Lahan village).
Ideas were often recycled at Squaresoft with their insane output of masterpieces in the 90's, not to mention Nomura "borrowing" Tifa's design and also measurements from some R18 visual novel.
I just can't believe that The Thing wasn't involved. Jenova pretty much IS The Thing. Excavated from the tundra by researchers, is an alien that can infect people, turn them into monsters, shapeshift, take on memories, & even a single cell of The Thing has The Thing's abilities. Add some religious allusions & refer to it in the feminine, & that's Jenova. And it's mostly just Sephiroth who refers to it as female, which always gave me Psycho vibes with how obsessed he was with his "mother."
I also thought you were going to go into the implications of what Jenova is in-universe, but I guess there aren't really any official sources clarifying that, & it's mostly down to if you accept certain guesswork based on things throughout the Compilation. But I feel like the implication made by Advent Children is that Jenova is a kind of parasite that goes from Lifestream to Lifestream, soaking up its power before continuing on. Sephiroth says in that movie that his plan is just like what Jenova used to do. It's also similar to the plot of Spirits Within, which used a lot of similar concepts to FF7, albeit poorly. In terms of the original game, there's not as much pointing to it, though there is the idea that Jenova can't die or return to the planet.
@@TheLithp Just like Lavos from Chrono Trigger who does the same, albeit through its "offsprings" which repeat the process across millions of planets across the universe.
Jenova also has a vulnerability to fire in at least one of it's in initial forms, if not all of them.
I love your content, thanks a lot!
Im so excited to watch this. I've had my own thoughts
I believe FFVII is heavily influenced by Anime and Manga.
Cloud/Zack and Sephiroth are look a lot at first glance like Guts and Griffith from Berserk. Also there relationship is somewhat similar.
Furthermore the look of the game reminds me in parts extremely of Akira. The bike chase especially. But also the confinement of Jenova reminds of the "Prison" of Akira.
And there is of course Neon Gensis Evangelion. That influence is overall a little pit more fussier and more a vibe thing but there are also some obvious examples. The Weapon attack on Junon is like an Angel attack on Neo Tokyo 3.
Considering Jenova. Jenova reminds me a little bit of Lilith of Neon Genesis. An alien(?) life form hidden away by an organization. There are also artificial humans and it is heavily implied, they were created in parts from that mysterious life form not unlike Sephiroth form Jenova. Speaking of which the Sefirot or Tree of life is an recurring image in the show.
No, there is no doubt in my mind. Without Neon Genesis Evangelion FFVII would look and feel different.
Hell yes!
I recently beat ff7 again for like the third time after a couple of years. And despite knowing the story, I’m constantly reminded how fucking good the story and game is every time I play it.
I think a lot of Jenova's concept came from Lavos and Deus, considering those were related to FFVI's development.
thanks for the movie suggestions
If Jenova speaks in FF7R part 3, I need her to have the Cart Titan voice from Attack on Titan. Make her creepy, scary and memorable!
Example : ua-cam.com/video/qlWPOLWCI2s/v-deo.html
This video is kinda surprised me.
First I thought it gonna be a lore video about Jenova that I’m not really interested since it’s already explained in the game but it’s ending up about behind the scene.
Second I didn’t realized that The Girl Leap Thought Time is that old I always thought the anime version is the first one.
(But look like the ending is almost completely different.)
im just watching Rebirth install so thanks for uploading a distraction
This feels like watching an History Channel show
the jenova is the powerhouse of the brain
The original concept for Jenova bears some resemblance to the Mitochondrias in Parasite Eve, which funnily enough ended being adapted by Square themselves not so many years later. PE was originally a japanese novel later adapted into a movie, and the games are non-canon sequels to the original works.
this is top tier content.
I'm sitting here screaming John Carpenter's The Thing like an idiot.
Jenova and the power of jeans.
I always found it interesting how FF7 kept its “fantasy” in a game that was more industrial punk contemporary; by making the cetra Mages using magic to fight an other worldly, other galaxy alien. It’d be like if the alien xenomorph queen was in Harry Potter
I like how Jenova has a lot, intentionally to some extent I'm sure regardless if confirmed or not, with John Carpenter's 1982 film "The Thing". Her/It being some sort of shapeshifting cosmic horror from beyond the stars that crashed in the planet's arctic millennia ago only to be discovered many centuries later. Only major difference being that Jenova got to work soon after arriving, whereas the Thing is forced to slumber for over 100,000 years. Both of them being terrifying in how the operate, the origins are unknown, same as it's purpose, how many worlds these vile beasts have destroyed/assimilated, and if there's possibly more of these aliens out there.
@@gjtrue Another major difference between The Thing and Jenova is the ability of the planet Gaia "invaded" by Jenova to protect itself, whereas the Earth from the Thing is obviously incapable of doing so. Once an active threat at all times (The Thing), while the other is been stopped by the planet itself (FF7).
I don't think that the original draft and the final script for JENOVA are mutually exclusive. It could simply been written as some unnamed being where the cast gave that name due to how similar it was to the in-game brain organ thing. If anything, it made it even more mysterious and menacing. Parts of the original JENOVA scripts seem to be in the final game, though, with the Mako and lifestream bits being very closely to the ancient jenova thing. To be frank, most of the early/scrapped FF7 seems more coherent than the final PS1 version
I mean Chrono Trigger has quite a similar premise to an alien coming to the planet and manipulating inhabitants to take over it.
This gave me some movies I need to watch lol I have seen the anime version of The Girl Who Lept Through Time but it seems different plot
7:10 Also at one point the party was going to fight Jenova's ears in a scrapped dungeon called Drakongrace Shinjuku. I think that concept got revisited later in a game that came out a few months ago; I think it was Final Re Fantasy O or something?
Great video
Aside from The Thing (or so i thought, like many others), i am convinced some elements were lifted from the story of Chrono Trigger for the final version of FF VII.
Lavos is a parasitic extaterrestrial being sleeping for centuries after crashing on earth on/inside a meteor.
And the game involve time travel like the movie you presented so maybe everything is tied.
*FF VIII SPOILERS*
The early idea of Materia being a vessel for the will of Jenova (and the inevitable twist that the main characters have been using them since the beginning of the game, making them feel like puppets) reminds me of the twist from FF VIII, when you discover that the repeated use of Guardian Forces; Ifrit, Shiva etc is slowly erasing your memories, explaining some plot holes.
And you cant do shit without them so..
i always had a theory, sicne 1998 (when i played ff7)
Jenova is from the same 'race' as Lavos, they're both a interestellar paraside that inhabits planets and drain its life, and move to another planet to repeat the cycle.
@@Lore_XiV69 Add to that Kitase's confirmation that FF7 takes place in the same universe as FFX, and we got ourselves a massive MCU universe of interconnected storylines.