Physically seeing Sephiroth for the first time during the Kalm flashback, and seeing how he had 6x more health than your characters and was casting tier 3 spells really made me feel like "we stand no chance against this guy." Then almost right after, the Zolom on a pike scene after it's clear your party can't handle it. It was perfection. He was the boogie man.
On my first play through i tried several times to beat the midgar zolom instead of getting a chocobo. He decimated my crew every time. So when I crossed the marsh and saw what Sephiroth had done, what power? That scene is peak "show, don't tell" in action 👌
@@KingKoopahthe shinra HQ bloodbath too, you always felt like you were one step behind this mysterious force of power. It's such a shame what they did with him in the remake making him pop up every 15 minutes to taunt Cloud in a cartoony fashion.
Sadly, they missed this subtle storytelling in the FFVII remake, where Sephiroth made numerous appearances well before the party had even left Midgar. The mystery was ruined.
This channel seriously appeared out of nowhere and just started dropping video after video with details about my favourite game of all time that I have never heard anywhere else! Great videos!
Whoever decided to trim down this Cloud-Tifa scene outside of 7th heaven made the right choice. (I'm guessing it was probably Sakaguchi.) The main point of the scene is to establish Cloud and Tifa's past relationship and reinforce Cloud's wavering loyalty to Avalanche. By adding more lines here to introduce Sephiroth this early takes away from the main focus: This girl we just met, and who she is to Cloud. We also don't need to focus on Sephiroth as an important threat yet because Shinra is the main villain for the first chapter of the game.
Agree 100%. I love the progression from somewhat innocent beginnings (infrastructure terrorism innocent loll) with how the characters interact with each other and how each interaction is given just the right amount of focus so it doesn't ever get stale (until Kalm flashback scene ughhhh).
They might have been confusing Cloud and Tifa's relationship with their history. The final version was correct to save the (unreliable) history dive until after Midgar, when we've already seen what Sephiroth can do and there's a specific reason to talk about him.
You know.i always said the remake was shit for plastering Sephiroth all over the first two hours, and now another artist (the real devs of the og) confirmed they removed it for that reason, and I know they aren't happy these new zoomer devs just ruined all that careful narrative planning. Bravo, its almost as if we dont need remakes of complete stories and we certainly dont want to pay 300 fucking dollars to buy an overly enhanced and padded copy of it when its freely available on the internet with no DLC 😂
I have mixed feelings about it. Remake is very obviously a stealth sequel, so it makes sense, but it's still over done. The first part should have stuck with the bit where he shows up to mess with Cloud after the reactor bombing and then had him not show up again at ALL until part two; it's a really clever trick when you realize he was dropping a bunch of BS on Cloud to alter events and prevent him from meeting Aerith on the street (only for the whispers to make sure it happens) but they should have come up with a different way to close the game out.
The fact that we don't see Sephiroth until the black materia is handed over has ALWAYS stuck with me. I thought it was wild that the most iconic Final Fantasy villain was really Jenova the majority of the game, even the moments people still talk about to this day. I never thought about it as being inspired by Jaws but it makes sense. Also, love the scene with everyone looking down at Cloud. Shame we didn't get that.
That is right, one of the things I wished they expanded upon was Jenova as a character, they could have better expanded her role to make her more of a mastermind behind everything even if at the end Sephiroths will overtakes hers.
@@max1311I think we'll learn a lot more about JENOVA in part 3. They already gave us a bunch of lore in Rebirth, explaining how it blended into Cetra society and apparently gained political power too.
People really need to play the actual game and stop saying "the villain was Jenova" like people who just read the stupid Brittenham interpretation because nothing in the entire game indicates that. If you read just the text of the game in isolation without any fan theories you will never say "Jenova is ..." The only twist about Jenova is that the avatar of Sephiroth was Jenova's body. That much is true. And in the original Jenova hss exactly one line. But the game continues from there on. People cannot just turn off the game. Cloud literally says to himself "mochirou sefirosu ..." in the Whirlwind Maze when he gets what is happening, which means "Of course, Sephiroth ..." That is when he goes nuts fully. And right after that they find Sephiroth and it is revealed that it was all Sephiroth's doing and that it was Jenova's Reunion and Sephiroth's will. People need to stop acting like Jenova is a villain because it is narratively never shown like that. You know why they never say "actually Jenova is the big evil"? Because it is not true. You know why Jenova is just a throwaway boss before Sephiroth? Because Jenova is nothing but a vessel to further the story of Sephiroth. Jenova is an alien that uses its intelligence to trick its prey. There is no "villain that is Jenova". Sephiroth is the villain because a) the primary focus in on him and b) he is a person with actual personality that is not just doing things by instinct. c) The story of VII makes it very clear that the bigger Shinra soldiers, like the "SOLDIERs" are not even affected by Jenova the same way because they have been guinea pigs before. That is why Zack in the Shinra Manor basement in one of the documents was said to not have reacted to Jenova and why the random Junon weapon seller who was a SOLDIER once has the urge to wear black cloaks but has no shattered mind and does not kill himself. And it is the same for Sephiroth. So that allso throws anything away that people oftentimes mentioned nonsensically as "she manipulates". The latter one I cannot say if it stays that way because FFVII is now written by some new writers as well and they made some weird changes to Ever Crisis and Rebirth were Jenova cells seem to have more of an effect but as of now those changes are not big enough. In any way, looking just at FFVII these are the things that were there. So no, the most iconic villain was still Sephiroth. Him reshaping Jenova's body and letting it carry out his will is still, as the game says, all Sephiroth's doing and Jenova's Reunion with Sephiroth's will.
@@Cetra29 To my understanding Jenova is essentially dead by the time of the events of the game, she may have been in control and a mastermind in the past, but the Cetra did manage to put an end to her. Her cells survive, but only as mindless cells. It isn't after Sephiroth was created, essentially a Jenova-human hybrid, that the cells act under someone's direction once again as they did in the past, but the mastermind who controls them is Sephiroth.
100% Sephiroth being a vague boogie man until that scene where he hands the materia to him is what made this game, the best. The tension and not know if he is alive or dead or a copy-cat (which may have been worse) was palpable and kept you on edge. Add in clouds amnesia and flashbacks.... Perfection.
The best part of FF7 is when Cloud visits the Nibelheim reactor and says "this was no boating accident!" And of course the ending when Cloud stuffs a propane tank into Sephiroth's mouth and says "Smile, you son of a bitch."
Notice how Remake decided to restore the content of this removed scene back into this part of the story. First we get a glimpse of the Nibelheim flashback when Cloud is on his was back to Sector 7. And then he hallucinates Sephiroth is near him again when Tifa takes him to his Hotel room for the night. Its not exactly the same, but it seems pretty clear that they took the bullet points from the cut content to expand these scenes to be longer and to make Sephiroth's presence felt earlier. Not a fan honestly. I think the original slow build to Sephiroth's reveal was much better and I'm very glad this scene was cut back in the original.
It's pretty clear to me that the Remake is meant to be played either after the original or once you already know who Sephiroth is anyway. The build up doesn't work if you already know, and remake plays with the fact that it is a remake, so what they did is a really good choice
Exactly, the remake series is building to some sort of big reveal, and I think it likely is that the remake isn’t really a true remake, but either an alternate timeline or some sort of regression. The fact that the stuff at the end of rebirth (not gonna spoil it) plays around with those concepts seems to point more and more to that.
This channel is pure gold for FF VII fans., I'm so glad one of your videos got recommended on my front page. Keep up the great work mate ! Cheers from France.
@@BenjaminGooseRemake/Rebirth, think of them like New Game +, not New Game. They’re doing the multiverse thing, there’s no need to drag it because we already know.
@@usoftheart just because we already know doesn't mean they need to eliminate all tension around him, it would be like if the Gman showed up to lecture the player every few maps in half life 2 instead of ominously watching from the background
@@DogsRNice I’m not familiar with Half Life. If they kept it at the original pacing, we would’ve waited 4 years to meet Sephiroth from Remake to Rebirth
Considering the people working on this channel i expected the videos to be quality but man, you guys are really surpassing my expectations and becoming one of my fav channels on youtube. Thanks for the hard work.
Yeah good opening, and 6:35 crisis core fleshed that out pretty well if you can tolerate Junon's repetitive robots and materia fuse barrier for angeal difficulty spike.
Now that you know this go listen to the ff7 remake jenova fight music. Right at the intro :) The og soundtrack made allusions to jaws too, but remake does it really really obviously.
If they showed that scene without actually name-dropping Sephiroth and removing the dialogue about him doing something terrible, it may have worked out well. It would actually be pretty creepy and would show that Cloud and this character have some kind of connection and that it's NOT a good one, making you wonder more about Cloud's story and anticipating learning how this mysterious swordsman ties into it. Still, I prefer what we got in the final game, there's no doubt that Sephiroth being an unseen threat for such a long time is a huge part of what makes him so memorable and well done in the OG.
Incredible, what a video! Personally, I’m glad they went with the Jaws approach. I was terrified of Sephiroth. Only hearing ominously about him made him feel like some looming insane threat
I feel like the bigger take away than Sephiroth is how much this changes Tifa's personality and motivations. In the original script she seemed to be more reactionary to what Cloud does but doesn't have an active role in the story. She would've just been "Hot girl who also got betrayed by Sephiroth" but by establishing Clouds mental deterioration we get more Tifa involvement with the plot and in a very meaningful way. There's so much more interesting things that it changes and it's not Sephiroth. These changes helped Aerith, Tifa, Barret, Cait Sith, and Red XIII to shine. When they introduce Sephiroth so early that's kind of all who we'll think about the entire story. Seemed like Cloud and Tifas only difference in memory was Cloud forgot she was there but if he remembers Sephiroth then that means Zack doesn't need to exist to push the plot forward.
I'm delighted they got rid of those scenes, as a kid playing FF7 I loved how the whole first chunk of the game seemed liked a misdirect. You have one big villian, President Shinra, in one location, Midgar. Then as soon as you get through what feels like a handy few hours of a game and think you're coming to what feels like an ending, Shinra is killed by a guy you've never even heard about, and you leave Midgar to actually start the game.
Firstly, another excellent video-great job! I have to agree with the original game's portrayal of Sephiroth; they nailed making him a truly ominous and impactful villain. In contrast, the remake's frequent appearances made him lose some of that mystique, almost to the point of being comical. I also really enjoyed the parts of the video that showcased the scrapped scenes. Those were fascinating! I had never seen or heard about them before, so that was a real treat. Keep up the amazing work!
I think the Sephiroth scenes become much more interesting once you figure out it's not the same story. The scenes instead focus on the psychological torture he does on Cloud and makes you really wonder what his real plan is. With the deleted scene, you can see they had a similar approach already thought of. The Jaws approach wouldn't work as well now with most people knowing what he's about.
@@matchanavii dunno. You can still enjoy Jaws on a repeat viewing. But of course it soon becomes clear this timeline is different. Whether that entire concept is for the better or not its an individual decision.
FF7 original : Sephiroth is a slow building threat in the background you don't see for many hours in FF7 remake : HEY! membah Sephiroth!? Here's more Sephiroth! We're gonna show you him! Here he is in Cloud's mind! And let's throw in a fight against him when you leave Midgar
Yeah... I know it's not supposed to be anything close to a 1:1 remake but it really does feel a lot like they went with a lot of flashiness that ultimately makes for a less intriguing experience. At least in my opinion.
@@crosana01 It's a sequel that expects you to know the original, AND Sephiroth plays an active part in trying to rewrite the timeline, so it makes sense to have this dynamic completely different. Personally, I would have preferred an actual remake, in this sense too.
The Sephiroth you see in Remake is well aware of his fate and that he lost... why would he do and say the exact same thing knowing they would lead to his demise? In Rebirth, the main paranoia Cloud gets planted in his head is that Tifa may not be real. This is a huge difference from the OG where she constantly kept him grounded, and they're probably going to do more with this in Part 3.
The only og sephiroth managed to do is to unalive aerith. In the remakes, he's the puppeter behind every major incident. He's the one who provoke rufus to unalive his own father and form avalanche group. He's the one who started the war between wutai and shinra. He's the one who's toying with cloud's mind.
I've been enjoying your videos - it's always interesting to learn more about your favorite games, and seeing examples (rather than just hearing a description) of cut content is really nice. Plus your fun little animations and such jazz it up nicely. Great work!
FF7 uses Jaws as inspiration FF7 Remakes use Poochie from the Simpsons as inspiration. 'Sephiroth must be on screen at all times. Whenever Sephiroth isn't on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Sephiroth?" '
So true, it’s ridiculous 😂 How could they make the other characters shine and develop quite authentically (in relation to the original, at least mostly), and ruin Sephitoth.
The remake isn’t really a remake, they just want you to think that. The remake is its’ own timeline that diverges from the original, hence the differences in plot and different outcomes so far.
@ yes, I know they want to show Sephiroth knows that it all has happened already. But they could have shown it a bit later while keeping him almost as mysterious as in the original.
@@Underestimated37 Agreed, and in short it's not truly Final Fantasy VII. The changes these remakes have made are doing a lot of damage to the original story of Final Fantasy VII. Future generations will set these games up as what Final Fantasy VII is, when in truth it's a corrupted version of the true story. Personally I find it really sad. There's a lot of nice things about the remakes. But their ambition led to the burial of a classic story. The had the opportunity to keep the original while just adding and fleshing it out. Instead they chose to twist the story to "appease" existing fans and shake it up to subvert their expectations. They could have made the best game ever created. Instead they made a version of Titanic where the ship makes it to New York. They've completely missed the point of why the original was so revered, and in Nomuras own vanity quest has corrupted a classic.
the remake did not obscure sephiroth nearly as much, a very very needed aspect to create that fear we all know when it comes to that character. bro was THAT more menacing in the OG bc i had no idea where he was or what he was doing or what could happen to me at any moment.
Sephiroth in the remakes is almost like Atrioch in Halo Infinite, a villain with endless free time who shows up constantly Atrioch leaves long sneering voice mail and hologram videos everywhere for master chief to find, Sephiroth is almost that bad
Sephiroth is interesting because we already had villains we didn't see for the entire game. Most (early) Dragon Quest games have the Demon King only revealed at the very end. (Interestingly enough, Remakes of DQIV introduce Psaro way earlier, making him directly responsible for burning the Hero's village.) But Sephiroth is different. He's not a simple evil presence.
Definitely! In those games it was bad cos you never had any clue the true demon king even exists til you meet him. But with Sephiroth even though we don't see him we still hear rumours about him, and always arrive just too late to see the consequences of his actions. It helps set up that he's someone to be feared, and you're really engaged trying to figure out the truth! In comparison with Mortamor or something it's just.. oh, you're telling me he's awesome, five minutes before I get there? What a waste 😂
Psaro burned your village in the nes game too. You just don’t see him hanging around in it before he does it because there’s no prologue chapter. The original version not showing the protagonist until hours into the game is way bolder
@@galacticwooper9060 Yeah. I mean, in the original it's a random bard that comes to your village, and isn't related to Psaro in any way we know of. It being potentially an accident makes the event stronger imo. Then you learn about him winning the tournament, but I don't think you actually see him there? It's weird because this initial scene makes him more instantly villainous, which contrast to him being actually redeemable. Dragon Quest IV's story is kind of a mess, honestly.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 no. It’s literally psaro. He talks after the village is slaughtered you just don’t see him because you’re hiding (ua-cam.com/video/2HukXrlEwk8/v-deo.htmlsi=NJOGH-ZCk8M9kJwF 10:26:03). And he’s not meant to be redeemable, just humanized. The problems all come from the remake which adds that extra chapter
My brain can't help but be reminded of the adage of how less is more. Less Sephiroth = More impact. Simple Graphics = Epic Story. Then Remake & Rebirth come along and shoot subtlety in the face only to try to revive it with the whispers later. Sigh...-_-
I dont like the whispers much, but I thoroughly enjoyed the new FF7s. I guess it just doesn't bother me that much. Having played the OG FF7 a million times, I'm happy it's not a direct 1:1 remake.
I really like your channel buddy. Expand to other fun facts of other FF games when you run out of FF7. I want all these condensed on one channel. Thank you!
I think this was the single biggest thing the remake bungled. It completely changes the tone of everything else. Also, echoing what everyone else said, great work on this video.
I don't think it can be really called a bungle, like IIRC from the very same interview where Kitase discusses how in the OG Sephiroth was like Jaws, I believe he also discusses how they made the conscious choice to do the opposite for the remake project (because they felt trying to ape the original Jaws-esque set-up just wouldn't work for a multi-part project) and instead make him directly pervasive throughout the story.
@@TheoVorster I think it's more likely that Square Enix they had to include Sephiroth earlier in the story because they knew the first game would be Midgar only. And they wanted to be able to show Sephiroth in the marketing material to get people excited to buy the game. If they kept the story the same as the original, Sephiroth wouldn't even appear until after Midgar, and they wouldn't be able to tease him in Remake trailers. They don't want to say that though because it looks bad if Marketing decisions affected the storytelling, so they just say "Well, Sephiroth is so recognizable now we couldn't present him the same way as the original." (Yet they were very careful to present all the other important characters to how people remembered them in the original.) The decision to split the Remake project into multiple parts affected many things, but the biggest alteration was Sephiroth's new plot and how he is presented.
@@stanm4410I mean they already changed Rocket Town and Cid in Rebirth, so they aren't afraid of making changes for the sake of pacing etc. I wouldn't say marketing was the only thing, I think it's more the videogame aspect of it. Part 1 needed a final boss lol.
@ oh no the devs have also mentioned that too, they’ve were very frank that there was no way they weren’t going have Sephiroth appear in part 1 of the remake, which is part of why they chose not try to ape the original approach, no point in trying to half-ass something that inherently can’t be achieved because of fundamental structural and design differences. Hence why they took the opposite approach (or more so Nojima in particular since according to Hamaguchi, Nojima has the main and ultimate say in the overall narrative). Though Sephiroth having a big final boss fight in part 1 was apparently the suggestion of the younger devs (i.e. ones who grew up playing the OG).
You're doing god's work as always! Amazing stuff. I feel they made the right call in the end. (with the exception of leaving in "careful this isn't just any reactor", which just leaves you totally confused as they don't connect it to anything else (no one else says this line later in the game, etc)
Sephiroth? Never heard of him. Kidding, obviously. This is a terrific analysis and the reconstruction of the beta scenes are very impressive. I think it is lost on many that the long wait to "meet" Sephiroth, paired with the many tales about him, is a huge part of what makes him such a juicy character. The stingy presentation makes you curious, eager to see more and learn more. But when you give into the desire of the audience and bomb them with too many of the answers to the mystery, and too quickly, so much of the fun is lost. In storytelling, in cinema, and in games, less is often so much more.
Thanks for continuing to cover all the stuff in the Shinra Archaeology Cut. I'm thinking of playing it soon but I couldn't decide if I wanted to play the version with the cut story bits restored or simply the retranslation. I think I may choose the latter at this rate.
Your best bet is the retranslation. The scenes that were cut add nothing to the game which is why they were left out. Also, if you are a stickler for graphics there are several enhancement mods that make the game look better on modern screens.
Definitely a great decision that made Sephirot the villain everyone remembers. This was my main gripe with FF7R that they made Sephirot way too much in your face right in the beginning.
I distinctly remember having tifa run after cloud outside the 7th heaven in my youths first times playing the game. And being confused not being able to ever recreate it. This video blew my mind...
Not knowing who or even WHAT Sephiroth was during act 1 was a clever move. During my first playthrough in 1997, I remember exploring the SHINRA building and seeing the destruction he left behind and all of the blood trails through some of the sections. I thought Sephiroth was a monster of some kind. My mind was blown when I later discovered he was actually human and not an animal. I later found out he was a monster after all, which cemented his place as the ultimate villain.
Given that in FF6, we see Kefka pretty early in, and he's a thorn in the parties side for the entire game. I like that Sephiroth is mostly just rumors and shadows at the start.
You're a young channel it seems, but you look very promising. I hope to see more of you about one of the most fantastical and iconical video game of History. Your videos are really good and interesting. Bonne chance à vous my good sir.
Its definitely a great narrative choice. As a kid you hear all these legends about how powerful he is and then you actually get to control him for a quick mission and his power level dwarfed yours in comparison. Made it seem like there was no chance to defeat him
This is where the remake utterly fails. You see him nonstop and also beat him before leaving Midgar instantly making him a non threat to the remainder of the story.
Honestly I don't think having the flashback that early would have been a bad thing. However it would have to be without the dialogue that infers that Sephiroth is a villain. Just the flashback alone might have added an early hook as to wanting to know who this was and what significance this memory holds. Again though, only if who was in the flashback was a mystery to Cloud at the time and no mention of Sephiroth's crimes. Cloud could, after CEO Shinra was killed and we make our way to the full, albeit altered, flashback little memories could creep in.
Considering the Remakes are technically sequels, I feel this isn’t really too big of a deal. I would have liked it there too ngl, but the remakes sort of assume you know the story of the original. With how much changes, it’s things that wouldn’t make sense without the OG games context.
But it's taking away what makes Sephiroth Sephiroth. And it's not just that he shows up, the bigger problem is you fight him twice. The flashback is no longer an introduction to this scary monster but backstory to a guy whose ass I kicked an hour ago.
@ well, again. In this context, the flashback isn’t meant to be an introduction as we already knew who sephiroth was before ever even playing Remake. I know for a lot of people that’s their first introduction to the story but that’s how it’s told. That said, it’s also clear that “that guy who’s ass I beat an hour ago.” Isn’t the real Sephiroth. It’s him projecting himself to torture Clouds mind.
@@itsonly_JT That clarity coming from an ending where we're fighting a destiny kaiju in a purple tornado in the sky in an alternate dimension, and then hitting Sephiroth causes Cloud to be teleported to a space rock where there's yet another Sephiroth, and all of this makes Zack from a few weeks ago alive again? Anyone in 2020 pretending they weren't speculating but definitively knew what was happening was lying/parroting some youtube fan theory. Action figure smashing, context destroying nonsense aside it doesn't really matter; he's presented as being there and displaying big power level in cutscene but then losing a sword fight. It's kinda like having Darth Vader lose a fight in ANH or Sauron showing up to get beat up by Aragorn in FOTR, especially for this type of villain.
This is pure beauty, man! Your videos are so interesting! I'm not the greatest F7 nerd, but I love this game since I've played it in 97, and I have my fair share of deep diving on its lore and stuff, and it's super impressive that all this time later you are pulling out this info, that at least for me was completely unknown. Awesome job! Keep it up, bro Also, super honored to have my music featured on the video, thank you! 👊
page 92 of that book mentions a place called Ruins Of The Ancients, it looks like the area weapons get released from, but more colourful, also has what looks like 2 crates placed there, also on that page, it calls the zolom a different name
There were so many things I did not knew about my favorite game. It's really surprising and refreshing to know them now. Thank you, I hope you'll continue discovering this secrets about FF VII (or other FF games).
This is the problem I have with the remake. Sephiroth starts showing up all over the place very early on. The game TELLS you he's a threat rather than making you FEEL like he's a threat.
I actually just saw this in the Shinra Archaelogy Cut mod and, while the extended "flashback" scene does explain the "Mr. Childhood Friend" nickname Johnny saddles Cloud with, I do agree that the shortened version is much better. It is strange that Cloud already suspects Sephiroth might still be alive, and it generally muddles the narrative of the early part of the game introducing Sephiroth as an antagonist that early on.
Given the premise of the reunion, I assume the reason Cloud is out to look for him so early here is because he's already unconsciously being pulled to the reunion like the other copies. Given the purpose of the copies is to bring Sephiroth the black materia, I assume the reason Cloud's hallucination here is about materia is also related to that. It's still more effective to have Seph be introduced later, though, imo.
dude, I LOVE this channel. Let me know if you need some Japanese translation. I love the scene you showed under 7th heaven showing the Materia tutorial. In ff7 Perfect guide it's actually a blue materia, not green which was awesome. Love that you are growing dude.
Your videos so far are incredibly well done. Great work. Where does that scene come from, however? Is there a leak of beta FF7 build and this scene was recreated/localized from it?
The whole scene is actually still present and functional in the game files, probably since it was cut so late. The footage here is from the Shinra Archaeology Cut mod, which restores it to the game, among other unused scenes. I think this one specifically was also added to the New Threat mod.
These videos are great! Love seeing these alternative versions that never made it. I never thought of the story being like Jaws in that respect, but in hindsight, it really adds to the suspense and intrigue. So, in essence, I reckon they made the right call here. But the scene where they are all staring over Cloud is great nevertheless.
I think they made the right move! Sephiroth has always felt so menacing, but in an intangible way-- like being afraid of the dark. I think this is exactly why.
The games are a fun compliment to the original. Not quite suitable as a replacement, but the originals aren't going anywhere and I've been enjoying them for what they are so far.
@@michaelslowminhow would keeping sephiroth a mystery be effective now when he's in smash brothers and on cereal boxes? It's not hard if you think about it
@@lemfandango yeah, but what does that really tell you about him as a character other than that he's popular? Just because he's well known, doesn't excuse poor pacing.
7:54 this scene is so cool!! I wish they kept this in yet only showed the masamune. That way they kept Sephiroth still vague… during the conversation with him I would have blacked the textures to keep it all mysterious until you get to Kalm or even better added a distortion effect with a green overhue on top of it.
This is.. All making sense! I can’t believe I never saw it before! When Cloud cried to god to help him while Sephiroth painted the ocean red with his blood was true horror…
That's not a remake, it's a time loop themed sequel that expects you to have played the original, know who this Sephiroth guy is who wants to rewrite the timeline to win in this version. So it's a completely different dynamic.
He said that Sephiroth's original introduction wouldn't have worked because "Everyone knows who Sephiroth is now". Meaning the mystery elements of his introduction wouldn't work anymore because he's appeared in Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia, etc. I think it was a really bad choice honestly. Either that or they thought players would be disappointed if they played all of Remake and Sephiroth didn't appear. So they found an excuse to bring him in earlier in the story (Whispers).
@@dudemcguy1227I was always divided by this reasoning, since while true, it also wasn’t addressed in the most elegant of ways. I’m a relatively newer fan but I played through OG VII, along with vanilla KH 1 and 2, back in ‘14 and early ‘15 when it re-released on PS4 after the teaser announcement. I enjoyed Remake & Rebirth immensely as their own things, but even I recognised that Sephiroth’s mystique was ruined by his abundance of random appearances through clones or when he is like, metaphysically there giving the most obfuscated hints for the future. And I also get that a more direct, one for one remake, while great, would’ve been underwhelming creatively for the development team, which most likely is filled with passionate fans, old and new, like all of us. But it definitely could’ve been fleshed out or redrafted a bit if Square Enix, Kitase-san or Nomura-san even was really adamant to go the meta angle.
@@acerimmer8338 So? “Remake” is a subtitle, not a description of the product. It’s about remaking the timeline. In a way it’s a clever bait amd switch.
I gotta say, as we recounted the scene, I was thinking "this is gonna be awful, they're gonna go WAY too far", but admittedly, I like the scene! I get the idea, and they only give us a small hint. As a piece of cut content, it's actually quite fun to think about the idea of wondering about Cloud's and Sephiroth's relationship. The dual reveal of "that guy ruined our lives" and "i used to hang out with him" is pretty fun. But of course, I think the REALLY operative part here is that we need Cloud and Tifa's relationship! We _want_ to think about Sephiroth, but we _need_ to hear about Tifa, as it's the Cloud/Tifa relationship that winds up being what basically ties everything together at the 11th hour before the climax gets ramped up towards the end.
It's not a well-known fact, I didn't know Jaws inspired this lol! That's pretty cool though. Good video man, I liked it and subbed. Thanks for sharing this info, where did you find these scenes? Looking forward to seeing more videos like this if there are of FF7 or other Final Fantasy games :)
Thanks! The components of these scenes are all intact in the retail game's files, but it wasn't for a long time that people were able to build the tools to view them. The specific restoration in this video is from the FFVII Shinra Archaeology Cut mod.
Sephiroth and the story was delivered perfectly in the original game. Removing this scene was wise. He will forever be one of the best villains in RPGs, and always the most hated.
Also, some food for thought. Sephiroth speaks to Clouds mind half way through disc 2 in the whirlwind maze, "Give me the Black Materia". This is the last words Sephiroth ever says in the game, only about 3/5ths of the way through the game (outside of memories in clouds subconscious). Present day sephiroth (also through the proxy of Jenova), Speaks for the first time at the Cargo Ship, and the last time in the Whirlwind maze. Probably only about 2/5ths of the game total have present day sephiroth speaking
Fascinating, I knew about how the the Promise scene had originally taken outside but I didn’t know it originally led into an early on-screen depiction of Sephiroth by way of flashback. Just in terms of how the scene is staged and paced I think I actually kinda prefer the beta cut version compared to what we ended up getting.
2:17 This is an interesting point. I played FF7 only this year (loved it a lot btw) and I was surprised that Sephiroth didnt appear until the Kalm flashback. To me he was the face of the game, especially because of 27 years of spoilers.
of all the villains in all the final fantasy games... he's probably the least active of them all, which is kind of crazy he VERY rarely makes any appearance in the story to the point that I remember when I played the game back in the 90s not really understanding why the team felt they needed to track him down and take him out.
I think the biggest flaw with Remake was introducing Sephiroth in that installment. I'll never forget seeing what Sephiroth did to Midgar Zolom that first time and feeling legitimate dread knowing I'm chasing him and will catch him before the end.
I thought the part where they just wake up with the cell doors open and find president shinra stabbed with the sword was way better then what they changed it to also.
@Usernamehear yes, but I remember following that trail of blood and carnage to the President's office as being more unsettling. Finding the sword in the office of the President was almost a relief, like a postponed reckoning. No longer immediate, but still hanging over your head. Then the way Sephiroth appears in the ship from Junon... ooh. The only trick they missed in the original, imo, was that they messed up by showing a number for Sephiroth's damage output against the dragon in the Kalm flash back. I think it would've been better to show just the insta-kill "Death" text instead. Giving a number demonstrates that Sephiroth's power is not limitless detracting from his mythic status.
The Original is such an iconic game and they made Sephiroth mysterious that when Remake came out I didn’t like how omnipresent Sephiroth was and how he seems to know Cloud. Well actually I played Remake first then played the original afterwards and enjoyed the original representation more but that’s besides the point. Anyway, since then, the Remake Trilogy as a concept has actually grown on me a lot over the past couple of years, this past year especially since Rebirth came out. The idea that Sephiroth couldn’t accept his loss so badly that he even would encroach on another universe to have a shot at it again is actually a really cool idea. It’s done in a way that if you’re playing new then you wouldn’t know that he has done this but there are enough clues hidden around for those who do know the original that this Sephiroth has learnt from past mistakes and is trialling a new approach while maintaining what worked for him the first time around. That’s why he’s targeting Tifa but is also still trying to break Cloud’s sense of self for example. People, me included had a knee-jerk reaction to this at the start but it’s actually a really cool idea. My only issue is why couldn’t they be transparent about it. People would hate it way less if they came out and said that this is what they were going for. Also, they should do a proper remaster of the original ff7 with full voice acting but the game being like Moguri Mod FF9 or Ever Crisis in visuals. Because essentially it’s a cool concept where in normal stories of this nature, the original version would be sprinkled in as villain flashbacks but FF7R doesn’t have that as the flashback is the original game. Problem is, the original game is very outdated. If they finish the trilogy and properly market it all as what it is, a semi sequel and then bring out a properly remastered version of the original game and market it as the original timeline then people won’t be so mad. Well some will because they’ll moan that they release a whole trilogy of games and then remaster the original all for money but 🤷♂️
Definitely the right call to remove this scene and leave the Sephiroth reveals more gradual. It does so much to build his menace to have the info drip fed. However, one thing that stood out to me was that Cloud in this version is establishing early why he might want to chase after Sephiroth. This resolves a long-standing quibble I've had with the end of the Midgar section in the game as-published. In the published version, the party sees that President Shinra has been killed by Sephiroth and they need to flee Midgar to avoid Shinra. However when the party is discussing what to do next, Cloud says somewhat out of nowhere that he has a score to settle with Sephiroth and that that might save the planet. Without this removed scene, the reason why isn't clear until the Kalm flashback, so narratively it always felt really weird to me. However, with the removed scene it makes perfect sense! Great video!
they absolutely made the right decision, and the handling of Sephiroth is one of my main gripes with the remake trilogy. It completely goes against the Jaws philosophy imo
I gotta say, one of my favorite moments is Sephiroth in the library pitching the materia at Cloud, then up-up-and-away'ing and zipping out. But i say this in all seriousness, I think Sephiroth and the tale of Final Fantasy are cemented in modern mythology. Just "because it's from a video game" doesn't mean it can't go down in the history of human mythos. I bet in 2 or 300 years (granted humanity has advanced for the better) Sephiroth will be as legendary as Greek and Arthurian tales.
Physically seeing Sephiroth for the first time during the Kalm flashback, and seeing how he had 6x more health than your characters and was casting tier 3 spells really made me feel like "we stand no chance against this guy." Then almost right after, the Zolom on a pike scene after it's clear your party can't handle it. It was perfection. He was the boogie man.
On my first play through i tried several times to beat the midgar zolom instead of getting a chocobo. He decimated my crew every time. So when I crossed the marsh and saw what Sephiroth had done, what power? That scene is peak "show, don't tell" in action 👌
@@KingKoopahthe shinra HQ bloodbath too, you always felt like you were one step behind this mysterious force of power. It's such a shame what they did with him in the remake making him pop up every 15 minutes to taunt Cloud in a cartoony fashion.
Sadly, they missed this subtle storytelling in the FFVII remake, where Sephiroth made numerous appearances well before the party had even left Midgar. The mystery was ruined.
@@welshpaul9932 Remake though seems built around the idea that you have played the original.
This channel seriously appeared out of nowhere and just started dropping video after video with details about my favourite game of all time that I have never heard anywhere else! Great videos!
RIGHT?! AAA content
I'm right with u haha
Look up the Shinra Archaeology mod and you'll find out why
Lol for real. Dude just appeared out of nowhere and has made the best FF content I've seen in years
Whoever decided to trim down this Cloud-Tifa scene outside of 7th heaven made the right choice. (I'm guessing it was probably Sakaguchi.)
The main point of the scene is to establish Cloud and Tifa's past relationship and reinforce Cloud's wavering loyalty to Avalanche.
By adding more lines here to introduce Sephiroth this early takes away from the main focus: This girl we just met, and who she is to Cloud.
We also don't need to focus on Sephiroth as an important threat yet because Shinra is the main villain for the first chapter of the game.
Agree 100%. I love the progression from somewhat innocent beginnings (infrastructure terrorism innocent loll) with how the characters interact with each other and how each interaction is given just the right amount of focus so it doesn't ever get stale (until Kalm flashback scene ughhhh).
They might have been confusing Cloud and Tifa's relationship with their history. The final version was correct to save the (unreliable) history dive until after Midgar, when we've already seen what Sephiroth can do and there's a specific reason to talk about him.
You know.i always said the remake was shit for plastering Sephiroth all over the first two hours, and now another artist (the real devs of the og) confirmed they removed it for that reason, and I know they aren't happy these new zoomer devs just ruined all that careful narrative planning.
Bravo, its almost as if we dont need remakes of complete stories and we certainly dont want to pay 300 fucking dollars to buy an overly enhanced and padded copy of it when its freely available on the internet with no DLC 😂
I was gonna say something along those lines. They were so heavy handed in the remake.@anders6326
I have mixed feelings about it. Remake is very obviously a stealth sequel, so it makes sense, but it's still over done. The first part should have stuck with the bit where he shows up to mess with Cloud after the reactor bombing and then had him not show up again at ALL until part two; it's a really clever trick when you realize he was dropping a bunch of BS on Cloud to alter events and prevent him from meeting Aerith on the street (only for the whispers to make sure it happens) but they should have come up with a different way to close the game out.
The fact that we don't see Sephiroth until the black materia is handed over has ALWAYS stuck with me. I thought it was wild that the most iconic Final Fantasy villain was really Jenova the majority of the game, even the moments people still talk about to this day. I never thought about it as being inspired by Jaws but it makes sense.
Also, love the scene with everyone looking down at Cloud. Shame we didn't get that.
That is right, one of the things I wished they expanded upon was Jenova as a character, they could have better expanded her role to make her more of a mastermind behind everything even if at the end Sephiroths will overtakes hers.
Well we do see sepheroth in the flashback? Although the flashback isn't exactly... yeah
@@max1311I think we'll learn a lot more about JENOVA in part 3. They already gave us a bunch of lore in Rebirth, explaining how it blended into Cetra society and apparently gained political power too.
People really need to play the actual game and stop saying "the villain was Jenova" like people who just read the stupid Brittenham interpretation because nothing in the entire game indicates that. If you read just the text of the game in isolation without any fan theories you will never say "Jenova is ..."
The only twist about Jenova is that the avatar of Sephiroth was Jenova's body. That much is true. And in the original Jenova hss exactly one line. But the game continues from there on. People cannot just turn off the game. Cloud literally says to himself "mochirou sefirosu ..." in the Whirlwind Maze when he gets what is happening, which means "Of course, Sephiroth ..." That is when he goes nuts fully. And right after that they find Sephiroth and it is revealed that it was all Sephiroth's doing and that it was Jenova's Reunion and Sephiroth's will. People need to stop acting like Jenova is a villain because it is narratively never shown like that. You know why they never say "actually Jenova is the big evil"? Because it is not true. You know why Jenova is just a throwaway boss before Sephiroth? Because Jenova is nothing but a vessel to further the story of Sephiroth. Jenova is an alien that uses its intelligence to trick its prey. There is no "villain that is Jenova". Sephiroth is the villain because a) the primary focus in on him and b) he is a person with actual personality that is not just doing things by instinct. c) The story of VII makes it very clear that the bigger Shinra soldiers, like the "SOLDIERs" are not even affected by Jenova the same way because they have been guinea pigs before. That is why Zack in the Shinra Manor basement in one of the documents was said to not have reacted to Jenova and why the random Junon weapon seller who was a SOLDIER once has the urge to wear black cloaks but has no shattered mind and does not kill himself. And it is the same for Sephiroth. So that allso throws anything away that people oftentimes mentioned nonsensically as "she manipulates". The latter one I cannot say if it stays that way because FFVII is now written by some new writers as well and they made some weird changes to Ever Crisis and Rebirth were Jenova cells seem to have more of an effect but as of now those changes are not big enough. In any way, looking just at FFVII these are the things that were there.
So no, the most iconic villain was still Sephiroth. Him reshaping Jenova's body and letting it carry out his will is still, as the game says, all Sephiroth's doing and Jenova's Reunion with Sephiroth's will.
@@Cetra29 To my understanding Jenova is essentially dead by the time of the events of the game, she may have been in control and a mastermind in the past, but the Cetra did manage to put an end to her. Her cells survive, but only as mindless cells. It isn't after Sephiroth was created, essentially a Jenova-human hybrid, that the cells act under someone's direction once again as they did in the past, but the mastermind who controls them is Sephiroth.
100% Sephiroth being a vague boogie man until that scene where he hands the materia to him is what made this game, the best. The tension and not know if he is alive or dead or a copy-cat (which may have been worse) was palpable and kept you on edge. Add in clouds amnesia and flashbacks.... Perfection.
The best part of FF7 is when Cloud visits the Nibelheim reactor and says "this was no boating accident!"
And of course the ending when Cloud stuffs a propane tank into Sephiroth's mouth and says "Smile, you son of a bitch."
Or when he says it’s materia time
@@David-nd4to and then he starts to materiaing all around
I see what you did there
I like the part when Cid looks at everyone and says, "We're gonna need a bigger boat."
It's still infuriating that the Mayor didn't listen to Cloud and shut down the beach when he told him about the Sephiroth attacks
I love the mysterious vibes of Sephiroth in the OG game... it really got me hooked. For me, the OG game will always be the best. Awesome video.
100%. The remakes are embarrassing. The younger players deserved more, they deserve to see a new version of the great game we played.
Notice how Remake decided to restore the content of this removed scene back into this part of the story.
First we get a glimpse of the Nibelheim flashback when Cloud is on his was back to Sector 7. And then he hallucinates Sephiroth is near him again when Tifa takes him to his Hotel room for the night.
Its not exactly the same, but it seems pretty clear that they took the bullet points from the cut content to expand these scenes to be longer and to make Sephiroth's presence felt earlier.
Not a fan honestly. I think the original slow build to Sephiroth's reveal was much better and I'm very glad this scene was cut back in the original.
It's pretty clear to me that the Remake is meant to be played either after the original or once you already know who Sephiroth is anyway. The build up doesn't work if you already know, and remake plays with the fact that it is a remake, so what they did is a really good choice
Exactly, the remake series is building to some sort of big reveal, and I think it likely is that the remake isn’t really a true remake, but either an alternate timeline or some sort of regression. The fact that the stuff at the end of rebirth (not gonna spoil it) plays around with those concepts seems to point more and more to that.
Yep, while the remake is largely excellent, throwing Sephiroth at us early, at Shinra Headquarters and the ending were all terribly fumbled.
The Remake had too much Sephiroth, too early. I wish he would not have been even seen in part 1.
I guess they wanted to end the first game with something more substantial than Motorball.
This channel is pure gold for FF VII fans., I'm so glad one of your videos got recommended on my front page.
Keep up the great work mate !
Cheers from France.
The recreated scenes was amazingly done, congrats!
Absolutely the right call. The slow burn really builds the tension and mysteriousness surrounding him.
It's hard to put into words my feelings after the end of Kalm flashback. Incredible.
@ it’s such a great set of scenes yeah
Something the remake gets completely wrong
I always admired the restraint they had on Sephiroths reveal.
It's a shame they lost that restraint with the remake.
@@BenjaminGooseRemake/Rebirth, think of them like New Game +, not New Game. They’re doing the multiverse thing, there’s no need to drag it because we already know.
@@usoftheart Ratio'd
@@usoftheart just because we already know doesn't mean they need to eliminate all tension around him, it would be like if the Gman showed up to lecture the player every few maps in half life 2 instead of ominously watching from the background
@@DogsRNice I’m not familiar with Half Life. If they kept it at the original pacing, we would’ve waited 4 years to meet Sephiroth from Remake to Rebirth
Considering the people working on this channel i expected the videos to be quality but man, you guys are really surpassing my expectations and becoming one of my fav channels on youtube. Thanks for the hard work.
these animations are outstanding
Yeah good opening, and 6:35 crisis core fleshed that out pretty well if you can tolerate Junon's repetitive robots and materia fuse barrier for angeal difficulty spike.
I did not know seph was jaws lol. That's nuts lol
yes, WTF Kitase... the same guy, what kind of brainrot do these people in square get infected by exactly?
Now that you know this go listen to the ff7 remake jenova fight music. Right at the intro :)
The og soundtrack made allusions to jaws too, but remake does it really really obviously.
If they showed that scene without actually name-dropping Sephiroth and removing the dialogue about him doing something terrible, it may have worked out well. It would actually be pretty creepy and would show that Cloud and this character have some kind of connection and that it's NOT a good one, making you wonder more about Cloud's story and anticipating learning how this mysterious swordsman ties into it. Still, I prefer what we got in the final game, there's no doubt that Sephiroth being an unseen threat for such a long time is a huge part of what makes him so memorable and well done in the OG.
Cloud falling down the pinball elevator takes some of the punch out of the hallucination.
Bing up that classic Guilty Gear "THAT MAN" vibe.
Incredible, what a video! Personally, I’m glad they went with the Jaws approach. I was terrified of Sephiroth. Only hearing ominously about him made him feel like some looming insane threat
They made the right decision with this one.
This was great. Your use of models for the transitions and stuff was really well-done!
All of these small custom animations sprinkled throughout the video are real fun to watch!
Seeing Sephiroth's sword in Shinra's back is master storytelling -- I don't think it could have been any better than that --
I feel like the bigger take away than Sephiroth is how much this changes Tifa's personality and motivations. In the original script she seemed to be more reactionary to what Cloud does but doesn't have an active role in the story. She would've just been "Hot girl who also got betrayed by Sephiroth" but by establishing Clouds mental deterioration we get more Tifa involvement with the plot and in a very meaningful way. There's so much more interesting things that it changes and it's not Sephiroth. These changes helped Aerith, Tifa, Barret, Cait Sith, and Red XIII to shine. When they introduce Sephiroth so early that's kind of all who we'll think about the entire story. Seemed like Cloud and Tifas only difference in memory was Cloud forgot she was there but if he remembers Sephiroth then that means Zack doesn't need to exist to push the plot forward.
This channel is pure gold!!
Thank you so Much for this epic content!
Keep on doing this, please!
I'm delighted they got rid of those scenes, as a kid playing FF7 I loved how the whole first chunk of the game seemed liked a misdirect. You have one big villian, President Shinra, in one location, Midgar. Then as soon as you get through what feels like a handy few hours of a game and think you're coming to what feels like an ending, Shinra is killed by a guy you've never even heard about, and you leave Midgar to actually start the game.
Firstly, another excellent video-great job! I have to agree with the original game's portrayal of Sephiroth; they nailed making him a truly ominous and impactful villain. In contrast, the remake's frequent appearances made him lose some of that mystique, almost to the point of being comical.
I also really enjoyed the parts of the video that showcased the scrapped scenes. Those were fascinating! I had never seen or heard about them before, so that was a real treat.
Keep up the amazing work!
I think the Sephiroth scenes become much more interesting once you figure out it's not the same story.
The scenes instead focus on the psychological torture he does on Cloud and makes you really wonder what his real plan is.
With the deleted scene, you can see they had a similar approach already thought of. The Jaws approach wouldn't work as well now with most people knowing what he's about.
@@matchanavii dunno. You can still enjoy Jaws on a repeat viewing.
But of course it soon becomes clear this timeline is different. Whether that entire concept is for the better or not its an individual decision.
FF7 original : Sephiroth is a slow building threat in the background you don't see for many hours in
FF7 remake : HEY! membah Sephiroth!? Here's more Sephiroth! We're gonna show you him! Here he is in Cloud's mind! And let's throw in a fight against him when you leave Midgar
Yeah... I know it's not supposed to be anything close to a 1:1 remake but it really does feel a lot like they went with a lot of flashiness that ultimately makes for a less intriguing experience. At least in my opinion.
@@crosana01 It's a sequel that expects you to know the original, AND Sephiroth plays an active part in trying to rewrite the timeline, so it makes sense to have this dynamic completely different. Personally, I would have preferred an actual remake, in this sense too.
If you don't like them doing new things to keep the story fresh Lol 🤣 go play the original 😁game LMAO 😆🙃😶😶🌫
Sorry, i was off my meds.
The Sephiroth you see in Remake is well aware of his fate and that he lost... why would he do and say the exact same thing knowing they would lead to his demise?
In Rebirth, the main paranoia Cloud gets planted in his head is that Tifa may not be real. This is a huge difference from the OG where she constantly kept him grounded, and they're probably going to do more with this in Part 3.
The only og sephiroth managed to do is to unalive aerith.
In the remakes, he's the puppeter behind every major incident. He's the one who provoke rufus to unalive his own father and form avalanche group. He's the one who started the war between wutai and shinra. He's the one who's toying with cloud's mind.
I absolutely LOVE the thumbnail lol😅. The Jaws reference is 💋 chefs kiss. 😂
This is my favorite new YT channel, this stuff is great. Keep it up
That jaws/costa del sol intro.. amazing!
I've been enjoying your videos - it's always interesting to learn more about your favorite games, and seeing examples (rather than just hearing a description) of cut content is really nice. Plus your fun little animations and such jazz it up nicely. Great work!
Your channel deserves a lot more subs for the quality of editing that accompanies your ff7 facts
FF7 uses Jaws as inspiration
FF7 Remakes use Poochie from the Simpsons as inspiration.
'Sephiroth must be on screen at all times. Whenever Sephiroth isn't on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Sephiroth?" '
The remake was made for people who don't understand the original
So true, it’s ridiculous 😂
How could they make the other characters shine and develop quite authentically (in relation to the original, at least mostly), and ruin Sephitoth.
The remake isn’t really a remake, they just want you to think that. The remake is its’ own timeline that diverges from the original, hence the differences in plot and different outcomes so far.
@ yes, I know they want to show Sephiroth knows that it all has happened already. But they could have shown it a bit later while keeping him almost as mysterious as in the original.
@@Underestimated37 Agreed, and in short it's not truly Final Fantasy VII. The changes these remakes have made are doing a lot of damage to the original story of Final Fantasy VII. Future generations will set these games up as what Final Fantasy VII is, when in truth it's a corrupted version of the true story.
Personally I find it really sad. There's a lot of nice things about the remakes. But their ambition led to the burial of a classic story. The had the opportunity to keep the original while just adding and fleshing it out. Instead they chose to twist the story to "appease" existing fans and shake it up to subvert their expectations. They could have made the best game ever created. Instead they made a version of Titanic where the ship makes it to New York. They've completely missed the point of why the original was so revered, and in Nomuras own vanity quest has corrupted a classic.
the remake did not obscure sephiroth nearly as much, a very very needed aspect to create that fear we all know when it comes to that character. bro was THAT more menacing in the OG bc i had no idea where he was or what he was doing or what could happen to me at any moment.
Though once you get to rebirth the appearances disappear a huge amount and that just completely unsettles you and leaves you even more on edge.
Sephiroth in the remakes is almost like Atrioch in Halo Infinite, a villain with endless free time who shows up constantly
Atrioch leaves long sneering voice mail and hologram videos everywhere for master chief to find, Sephiroth is almost that bad
I’m surprised that even all these years later this still more I’m learning about FF7. Great video!!
Sephiroth is interesting because we already had villains we didn't see for the entire game. Most (early) Dragon Quest games have the Demon King only revealed at the very end. (Interestingly enough, Remakes of DQIV introduce Psaro way earlier, making him directly responsible for burning the Hero's village.)
But Sephiroth is different. He's not a simple evil presence.
Definitely! In those games it was bad cos you never had any clue the true demon king even exists til you meet him. But with Sephiroth even though we don't see him we still hear rumours about him, and always arrive just too late to see the consequences of his actions. It helps set up that he's someone to be feared, and you're really engaged trying to figure out the truth! In comparison with Mortamor or something it's just.. oh, you're telling me he's awesome, five minutes before I get there? What a waste 😂
Psaro burned your village in the nes game too. You just don’t see him hanging around in it before he does it because there’s no prologue chapter. The original version not showing the protagonist until hours into the game is way bolder
@@galacticwooper9060 Yeah. I mean, in the original it's a random bard that comes to your village, and isn't related to Psaro in any way we know of. It being potentially an accident makes the event stronger imo.
Then you learn about him winning the tournament, but I don't think you actually see him there?
It's weird because this initial scene makes him more instantly villainous, which contrast to him being actually redeemable. Dragon Quest IV's story is kind of a mess, honestly.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 no. It’s literally psaro. He talks after the village is slaughtered you just don’t see him because you’re hiding (ua-cam.com/video/2HukXrlEwk8/v-deo.htmlsi=NJOGH-ZCk8M9kJwF 10:26:03). And he’s not meant to be redeemable, just humanized. The problems all come from the remake which adds that extra chapter
@galacticwooper9060 Oh right! I forgot, thanks.
My brain can't help but be reminded of the adage of how less is more. Less Sephiroth = More impact. Simple Graphics = Epic Story.
Then Remake & Rebirth come along and shoot subtlety in the face only to try to revive it with the whispers later. Sigh...-_-
I dont like the whispers much, but I thoroughly enjoyed the new FF7s. I guess it just doesn't bother me that much. Having played the OG FF7 a million times, I'm happy it's not a direct 1:1 remake.
@@tetsuoakira8294 Didn't need it to be but would've liked it to make make sense and improve on what was established. But if you're happy, cheers.
God the whispers are such a stupid, cheap trope.
I agree, the OG will always have the superior story. But IMO, rebirth has the superior gameplay depth.
They both have their strengths.
@@hamza7518 That honestly makes Remake and Rebirth more frustrating. THIS CLOSE and yet...
Leaving him ambiguous until the very last second was definitely the right call.
I really like your channel buddy. Expand to other fun facts of other FF games when you run out of FF7. I want all these condensed on one channel. Thank you!
The cut was for the best.
I think this was the single biggest thing the remake bungled. It completely changes the tone of everything else. Also, echoing what everyone else said, great work on this video.
Not a remake, part of a trilogy and it's a sequel.
I don't think it can be really called a bungle, like IIRC from the very same interview where Kitase discusses how in the OG Sephiroth was like Jaws, I believe he also discusses how they made the conscious choice to do the opposite for the remake project (because they felt trying to ape the original Jaws-esque set-up just wouldn't work for a multi-part project) and instead make him directly pervasive throughout the story.
@@TheoVorster I think it's more likely that Square Enix they had to include Sephiroth earlier in the story because they knew the first game would be Midgar only. And they wanted to be able to show Sephiroth in the marketing material to get people excited to buy the game.
If they kept the story the same as the original, Sephiroth wouldn't even appear until after Midgar, and they wouldn't be able to tease him in Remake trailers. They don't want to say that though because it looks bad if Marketing decisions affected the storytelling, so they just say "Well, Sephiroth is so recognizable now we couldn't present him the same way as the original." (Yet they were very careful to present all the other important characters to how people remembered them in the original.)
The decision to split the Remake project into multiple parts affected many things, but the biggest alteration was Sephiroth's new plot and how he is presented.
@@stanm4410I mean they already changed Rocket Town and Cid in Rebirth, so they aren't afraid of making changes for the sake of pacing etc.
I wouldn't say marketing was the only thing, I think it's more the videogame aspect of it. Part 1 needed a final boss lol.
@ oh no the devs have also mentioned that too, they’ve were very frank that there was no way they weren’t going have Sephiroth appear in part 1 of the remake, which is part of why they chose not try to ape the original approach, no point in trying to half-ass something that inherently can’t be achieved because of fundamental structural and design differences. Hence why they took the opposite approach (or more so Nojima in particular since according to Hamaguchi, Nojima has the main and ultimate say in the overall narrative). Though Sephiroth having a big final boss fight in part 1 was apparently the suggestion of the younger devs (i.e. ones who grew up playing the OG).
Remake&Rebirth went back to the beta story content
It’s beta alright…
You're doing god's work as always! Amazing stuff. I feel they made the right call in the end. (with the exception of leaving in "careful this isn't just any reactor", which just leaves you totally confused as they don't connect it to anything else (no one else says this line later in the game, etc)
Love your videos dude.
When's the new video out? It's been a minute
@@medical5444 I think I remember him saying somewhere one was in the works.
@@medical5444 I'm working on the script for one now, but it's a slow process
Sephiroth? Never heard of him. Kidding, obviously. This is a terrific analysis and the reconstruction of the beta scenes are very impressive. I think it is lost on many that the long wait to "meet" Sephiroth, paired with the many tales about him, is a huge part of what makes him such a juicy character. The stingy presentation makes you curious, eager to see more and learn more. But when you give into the desire of the audience and bomb them with too many of the answers to the mystery, and too quickly, so much of the fun is lost. In storytelling, in cinema, and in games, less is often so much more.
Thanks for continuing to cover all the stuff in the Shinra Archaeology Cut. I'm thinking of playing it soon but I couldn't decide if I wanted to play the version with the cut story bits restored or simply the retranslation. I think I may choose the latter at this rate.
Your best bet is the retranslation. The scenes that were cut add nothing to the game which is why they were left out. Also, if you are a stickler for graphics there are several enhancement mods that make the game look better on modern screens.
Definitely a great decision that made Sephirot the villain everyone remembers. This was my main gripe with FF7R that they made Sephirot way too much in your face right in the beginning.
Such a cool tidbit from behind the curtains. :O Highlights the differences between the two version and how both make their respective ways work ^^
THE THUMBNAIL
Love the animations, this is a great video!
And I agree that leaving Sephiroth to be revealed late works just as effectively as Jaws.
That 2 liter Sprite bottle looking real good on that bar table
I distinctly remember having tifa run after cloud outside the 7th heaven in my youths first times playing the game. And being confused not being able to ever recreate it. This video blew my mind...
Not knowing who or even WHAT Sephiroth was during act 1 was a clever move. During my first playthrough in 1997, I remember exploring the SHINRA building and seeing the destruction he left behind and all of the blood trails through some of the sections. I thought Sephiroth was a monster of some kind. My mind was blown when I later discovered he was actually human and not an animal. I later found out he was a monster after all, which cemented his place as the ultimate villain.
This FF7 fan video is fresh! Great work!
Given that in FF6, we see Kefka pretty early in, and he's a thorn in the parties side for the entire game.
I like that Sephiroth is mostly just rumors and shadows at the start.
You're a young channel it seems, but you look very promising. I hope to see more of you about one of the most fantastical and iconical video game of History. Your videos are really good and interesting. Bonne chance à vous my good sir.
Its definitely a great narrative choice. As a kid you hear all these legends about how powerful he is and then you actually get to control him for a quick mission and his power level dwarfed yours in comparison. Made it seem like there was no chance to defeat him
This is where the remake utterly fails. You see him nonstop and also beat him before leaving Midgar instantly making him a non threat to the remainder of the story.
Honestly I don't think having the flashback that early would have been a bad thing. However it would have to be without the dialogue that infers that Sephiroth is a villain. Just the flashback alone might have added an early hook as to wanting to know who this was and what significance this memory holds. Again though, only if who was in the flashback was a mystery to Cloud at the time and no mention of Sephiroth's crimes. Cloud could, after CEO Shinra was killed and we make our way to the full, albeit altered, flashback little memories could creep in.
and that's what the remakes got wrong... Sephiroth shows up every hour or so just to check on the group and say hello
Yep, probably their biggest narrative blunder, imo.
Considering the Remakes are technically sequels, I feel this isn’t really too big of a deal. I would have liked it there too ngl, but the remakes sort of assume you know the story of the original. With how much changes, it’s things that wouldn’t make sense without the OG games context.
But it's taking away what makes Sephiroth Sephiroth. And it's not just that he shows up, the bigger problem is you fight him twice. The flashback is no longer an introduction to this scary monster but backstory to a guy whose ass I kicked an hour ago.
@ well, again. In this context, the flashback isn’t meant to be an introduction as we already knew who sephiroth was before ever even playing Remake. I know for a lot of people that’s their first introduction to the story but that’s how it’s told. That said, it’s also clear that “that guy who’s ass I beat an hour ago.” Isn’t the real Sephiroth. It’s him projecting himself to torture Clouds mind.
@@itsonly_JT That clarity coming from an ending where we're fighting a destiny kaiju in a purple tornado in the sky in an alternate dimension, and then hitting Sephiroth causes Cloud to be teleported to a space rock where there's yet another Sephiroth, and all of this makes Zack from a few weeks ago alive again? Anyone in 2020 pretending they weren't speculating but definitively knew what was happening was lying/parroting some youtube fan theory.
Action figure smashing, context destroying nonsense aside it doesn't really matter; he's presented as being there and displaying big power level in cutscene but then losing a sword fight. It's kinda like having Darth Vader lose a fight in ANH or Sauron showing up to get beat up by Aragorn in FOTR, especially for this type of villain.
Found you on Twitter and really looking forward to more content. Great video
This is pure beauty, man! Your videos are so interesting! I'm not the greatest F7 nerd, but I love this game since I've played it in 97, and I have my fair share of deep diving on its lore and stuff, and it's super impressive that all this time later you are pulling out this info, that at least for me was completely unknown. Awesome job! Keep it up, bro
Also, super honored to have my music featured on the video, thank you! 👊
page 92 of that book mentions a place called Ruins Of The Ancients, it looks like the area weapons get released from, but more colourful, also has what looks like 2 crates placed there, also on that page, it calls the zolom a different name
There were so many things I did not knew about my favorite game. It's really surprising and refreshing to know them now. Thank you, I hope you'll continue discovering this secrets about FF VII (or other FF games).
This is the problem I have with the remake. Sephiroth starts showing up all over the place very early on. The game TELLS you he's a threat rather than making you FEEL like he's a threat.
Very good call, I think.. the way he was presented in the story was perfect.
I remember my jaw dropped when you battle that dragon along-side him .. 🤣
I think Cloud not remembering his promise to Tifa would throw a big wrench in his redemption later.
I actually just saw this in the Shinra Archaelogy Cut mod and, while the extended "flashback" scene does explain the "Mr. Childhood Friend" nickname Johnny saddles Cloud with, I do agree that the shortened version is much better. It is strange that Cloud already suspects Sephiroth might still be alive, and it generally muddles the narrative of the early part of the game introducing Sephiroth as an antagonist that early on.
Given the premise of the reunion, I assume the reason Cloud is out to look for him so early here is because he's already unconsciously being pulled to the reunion like the other copies. Given the purpose of the copies is to bring Sephiroth the black materia, I assume the reason Cloud's hallucination here is about materia is also related to that. It's still more effective to have Seph be introduced later, though, imo.
dude, I LOVE this channel. Let me know if you need some Japanese translation. I love the scene you showed under 7th heaven showing the Materia tutorial. In ff7 Perfect guide it's actually a blue materia, not green which was awesome.
Love that you are growing dude.
Your videos so far are incredibly well done. Great work.
Where does that scene come from, however? Is there a leak of beta FF7 build and this scene was recreated/localized from it?
The whole scene is actually still present and functional in the game files, probably since it was cut so late. The footage here is from the Shinra Archaeology Cut mod, which restores it to the game, among other unused scenes. I think this one specifically was also added to the New Threat mod.
@ Interesting, I had no idea. Here I thought I knew everything about this game, it just keeps on giving. Thanks for the information!
These videos are great! Love seeing these alternative versions that never made it. I never thought of the story being like Jaws in that respect, but in hindsight, it really adds to the suspense and intrigue. So, in essence, I reckon they made the right call here. But the scene where they are all staring over Cloud is great nevertheless.
I think they made the right move! Sephiroth has always felt so menacing, but in an intangible way-- like being afraid of the dark. I think this is exactly why.
This is one of the reasons I'm skeptical about playing the remakes. Idk if I want to see him popping up every hour or so in Midgar..
Yeah I like the remakes for what they are, but there are many story elements that got handled in a very tone deaf way
Right! What is the point of continuing when you beat the final boss in part 1?
The games are a fun compliment to the original. Not quite suitable as a replacement, but the originals aren't going anywhere and I've been enjoying them for what they are so far.
@@michaelslowminhow would keeping sephiroth a mystery be effective now when he's in smash brothers and on cereal boxes? It's not hard if you think about it
@@lemfandango yeah, but what does that really tell you about him as a character other than that he's popular? Just because he's well known, doesn't excuse poor pacing.
7:54 this scene is so cool!!
I wish they kept this in yet only showed the masamune. That way they kept Sephiroth still vague… during the conversation with him I would have blacked the textures to keep it all mysterious until you get to Kalm or even better added a distortion effect with a green overhue on top of it.
That giant Sephiroth appearing actually startled me. Funny stuff.
To know Jaws influenced FFVII is not only fascinating, but I feel lucky to know this!
Your videos are really great to watch. Keep it up, you have a subscriber!
This channel is wild!
Fantastic change honestly. Those scenes seem incredibly forced at best and serve to undercut some of the greatest plot moments in the game at worst.
This is.. All making sense! I can’t believe I never saw it before! When Cloud cried to god to help him while Sephiroth painted the ocean red with his blood was true horror…
Did Kitase just forget about this tension in the remake, or...?
That's not a remake, it's a time loop themed sequel that expects you to have played the original, know who this Sephiroth guy is who wants to rewrite the timeline to win in this version. So it's a completely different dynamic.
He said that Sephiroth's original introduction wouldn't have worked because "Everyone knows who Sephiroth is now". Meaning the mystery elements of his introduction wouldn't work anymore because he's appeared in Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia, etc.
I think it was a really bad choice honestly. Either that or they thought players would be disappointed if they played all of Remake and Sephiroth didn't appear. So they found an excuse to bring him in earlier in the story (Whispers).
@@dudemcguy1227I was always divided by this reasoning, since while true, it also wasn’t addressed in the most elegant of ways.
I’m a relatively newer fan but I played through OG VII, along with vanilla KH 1 and 2, back in ‘14 and early ‘15 when it re-released on PS4 after the teaser announcement. I enjoyed Remake & Rebirth immensely as their own things, but even I recognised that Sephiroth’s mystique was ruined by his abundance of random appearances through clones or when he is like, metaphysically there giving the most obfuscated hints for the future.
And I also get that a more direct, one for one remake, while great, would’ve been underwhelming creatively for the development team, which most likely is filled with passionate fans, old and new, like all of us. But it definitely could’ve been fleshed out or redrafted a bit if Square Enix, Kitase-san or Nomura-san even was really adamant to go the meta angle.
@@19Szabolcs91 The game is literally called Final Fantasy 7 REMAKE.
@@acerimmer8338 So? “Remake” is a subtitle, not a description of the product. It’s about remaking the timeline. In a way it’s a clever bait amd switch.
I gotta say, as we recounted the scene, I was thinking "this is gonna be awful, they're gonna go WAY too far", but admittedly, I like the scene! I get the idea, and they only give us a small hint. As a piece of cut content, it's actually quite fun to think about the idea of wondering about Cloud's and Sephiroth's relationship. The dual reveal of "that guy ruined our lives" and "i used to hang out with him" is pretty fun.
But of course, I think the REALLY operative part here is that we need Cloud and Tifa's relationship! We _want_ to think about Sephiroth, but we _need_ to hear about Tifa, as it's the Cloud/Tifa relationship that winds up being what basically ties everything together at the 11th hour before the climax gets ramped up towards the end.
"And then for the FF7 Remake, we promptly through all that out the window."
It's not a well-known fact, I didn't know Jaws inspired this lol! That's pretty cool though. Good video man, I liked it and subbed. Thanks for sharing this info, where did you find these scenes? Looking forward to seeing more videos like this if there are of FF7 or other Final Fantasy games :)
Thanks! The components of these scenes are all intact in the retail game's files, but it wasn't for a long time that people were able to build the tools to view them. The specific restoration in this video is from the FFVII Shinra Archaeology Cut mod.
Keep up these videos ! They are so good and interesting
Haven’t watched yet but once I saw your channel name I knew I’d be in for a good time.
I really love your videos!!! You have an awesome voice!
The best part of FF7 is when Cloud says "it's soldierin' time!"
Sephiroth and the story was delivered perfectly in the original game. Removing this scene was wise.
He will forever be one of the best villains in RPGs, and always the most hated.
“That’s some bad hair, Sephy!”
Holding off on Sephy’s reveal was the right choice, though I do wish the internal monologue Cloud has to deal with had been expanded in return.
Also, some food for thought. Sephiroth speaks to Clouds mind half way through disc 2 in the whirlwind maze, "Give me the Black Materia". This is the last words Sephiroth ever says in the game, only about 3/5ths of the way through the game (outside of memories in clouds subconscious).
Present day sephiroth (also through the proxy of Jenova), Speaks for the first time at the Cargo Ship, and the last time in the Whirlwind maze. Probably only about 2/5ths of the game total have present day sephiroth speaking
Fascinating, I knew about how the the Promise scene had originally taken outside but I didn’t know it originally led into an early on-screen depiction of Sephiroth by way of flashback.
Just in terms of how the scene is staged and paced I think I actually kinda prefer the beta cut version compared to what we ended up getting.
Shame they completely pissed all over the tension that comes from the reveal in the remakes
2:17 This is an interesting point. I played FF7 only this year (loved it a lot btw) and I was surprised that Sephiroth didnt appear until the Kalm flashback. To me he was the face of the game, especially because of 27 years of spoilers.
of all the villains in all the final fantasy games... he's probably the least active of them all, which is kind of crazy
he VERY rarely makes any appearance in the story to the point that I remember when I played the game back in the 90s not really understanding why the team felt they needed to track him down and take him out.
I'm happy that you liked it and didn't imediately dismiss it for the graphics.
I think the biggest flaw with Remake was introducing Sephiroth in that installment.
I'll never forget seeing what Sephiroth did to Midgar Zolom that first time and feeling legitimate dread knowing I'm chasing him and will catch him before the end.
I thought the part where they just wake up with the cell doors open and find president shinra stabbed with the sword was way better then what they changed it to also.
@Usernamehear yes, but I remember following that trail of blood and carnage to the President's office as being more unsettling. Finding the sword in the office of the President was almost a relief, like a postponed reckoning. No longer immediate, but still hanging over your head. Then the way Sephiroth appears in the ship from Junon... ooh.
The only trick they missed in the original, imo, was that they messed up by showing a number for Sephiroth's damage output against the dragon in the Kalm flash back. I think it would've been better to show just the insta-kill "Death" text instead. Giving a number demonstrates that Sephiroth's power is not limitless detracting from his mythic status.
The new threat mod added this back into the game in type b
Great videos and editing
The Original is such an iconic game and they made Sephiroth mysterious that when Remake came out I didn’t like how omnipresent Sephiroth was and how he seems to know Cloud. Well actually I played Remake first then played the original afterwards and enjoyed the original representation more but that’s besides the point. Anyway, since then, the Remake Trilogy as a concept has actually grown on me a lot over the past couple of years, this past year especially since Rebirth came out.
The idea that Sephiroth couldn’t accept his loss so badly that he even would encroach on another universe to have a shot at it again is actually a really cool idea. It’s done in a way that if you’re playing new then you wouldn’t know that he has done this but there are enough clues hidden around for those who do know the original that this Sephiroth has learnt from past mistakes and is trialling a new approach while maintaining what worked for him the first time around. That’s why he’s targeting Tifa but is also still trying to break Cloud’s sense of self for example.
People, me included had a knee-jerk reaction to this at the start but it’s actually a really cool idea. My only issue is why couldn’t they be transparent about it. People would hate it way less if they came out and said that this is what they were going for.
Also, they should do a proper remaster of the original ff7 with full voice acting but the game being like Moguri Mod FF9 or Ever Crisis in visuals. Because essentially it’s a cool concept where in normal stories of this nature, the original version would be sprinkled in as villain flashbacks but FF7R doesn’t have that as the flashback is the original game. Problem is, the original game is very outdated. If they finish the trilogy and properly market it all as what it is, a semi sequel and then bring out a properly remastered version of the original game and market it as the original timeline then people won’t be so mad. Well some will because they’ll moan that they release a whole trilogy of games and then remaster the original all for money but 🤷♂️
Definitely the right call to remove this scene and leave the Sephiroth reveals more gradual. It does so much to build his menace to have the info drip fed.
However, one thing that stood out to me was that Cloud in this version is establishing early why he might want to chase after Sephiroth. This resolves a long-standing quibble I've had with the end of the Midgar section in the game as-published. In the published version, the party sees that President Shinra has been killed by Sephiroth and they need to flee Midgar to avoid Shinra. However when the party is discussing what to do next, Cloud says somewhat out of nowhere that he has a score to settle with Sephiroth and that that might save the planet. Without this removed scene, the reason why isn't clear until the Kalm flashback, so narratively it always felt really weird to me. However, with the removed scene it makes perfect sense!
Great video!
they absolutely made the right decision, and the handling of Sephiroth is one of my main gripes with the remake trilogy. It completely goes against the Jaws philosophy imo
I gotta say, one of my favorite moments is Sephiroth in the library pitching the materia at Cloud, then up-up-and-away'ing and zipping out.
But i say this in all seriousness, I think Sephiroth and the tale of Final Fantasy are cemented in modern mythology. Just "because it's from a video game" doesn't mean it can't go down in the history of human mythos. I bet in 2 or 300 years (granted humanity has advanced for the better) Sephiroth will be as legendary as Greek and Arthurian tales.