I wonder if anyone has ever seen you two walking off into the desert with a wheel barrow, a shovel and guns and thought about calling the authorities? Lol
He spends a lot more on his mechanical devices than I do though. Love my AKs, this is a good reminder to either A. not immerse your rifle in mud, comrade or B. clean your rifle pretty soon after you immerse it in mud, comrade.
When you said the people have an irrational attachment to a weapon reminded me of my father. He was in WW2 and talked about how he often went into combat with an M1, B.A.R. ,Thompson or something else and would come out with something different. When his weapon ran out of ammo or was damaged he picked up what was at hand. There were weapons he liked. But he made sure he knew how to use them all. Both American and German. He used everything from a Bazooka to his bare hands. He survived, not because of his weapon but because of his training, skill sets, and determination. He also saw people who died because they ran out of ammo and never thought to pick up the K98 at their feet.
"Some guy on the internet told me an AK will work even if it's full of mud so now I won't believe it when I see one fail with my own eyes" - Everyone who's jimmies are rustled by these videos.
The last ak variant I hope you guys get to test is the Galil Ace. The reciprocating cover and sealed receiver should solve the issue of the mud in the locking lugs. Great video!
Wouldn't change much I think. The ejection port is too big and too high for the sealing of the rear of the receiver to make much difference if you watch the video here and pay attention to the type of malfs they're getting.
I feel like people loving AKs beyond reason are the same kind of people who say that Japanese "Hand forged folded steel Katana" are the best blades in the entire universe. Great video by the way, keep it up :) edit: didn't scroll down the comment section before writing mine, seems like i'm not the only one thinking that, unsurprisingly.
The difference is that the Japanese put craftsmanship, art, precision, and care into the production of high quality swords. Ak's are just poorly-designed guns.
@@LinkHyrule03 not poorly designed if the same basic operating system (rotating bolt) and ergonomics have lasted 70 years up into the newer variants of AKs like the AK107 and AK12. You are dead wrong
I think the biggest issue with American AK owners is they think the rifle is indestructible and can just eat through any mud or rocks that enters the receiver. This is a myth. The AK's renowned reliability comes from it's ability to not require maintenance for long periods of time and the simplicity of clearing / cleaning it. In a firefight, if you SOMEHOW find a weapon in the condition as the one in this video, you pop the dust cover, shake everything out and go to town. An AR is less likely to get outside elements inside of the action; HOWEVER, if you do get junk around the trigger and behind the bolt, it is significantly harder to remedy than an AK is. Also, milspec AR's eat where they shit so cleaning has a much higher emphasis regarding extended use. The fact of the matter is, both guns have tons of myths that surround them and their owners like to get REALLY attached to them. AR's are reliable and are NOT the most accurate rifle ever made. AK's are accurate and are NOT impervious to mud and other outside elements. Once you accept the limitations of your rifle, you can fully appreciate it's function. Sincerely, a Vepr AK74 owner
So I'm seeing down here UK AKs, German prototype AKs, and the obvious Russian AKs. Let us go to the next level. it failed because it wasn't a Japanese AK Steel folded over one thousand times, it will ABSORB the mud ! or something
I'm a big fan of the mudtest content on In Range. This is what originally attracted me to In Range and I would love to more rifles tested in this manner. That includes testing newer designs such as an FN Scar or a Steyr AUG and maybe a few more AR or AK variants such as a gas piston AR or a Galil. Thank you for the informative and entertaining content. Please keep up the good work.
Brilliant video, guys! Finally l've got a video l can refer to when talking to other people who have served in the Finnish military. Now l can say with confidence that my personal AR actually is more reliable in some conditions.
I HAVE AN IRRATIONAL URGE TO RANDOMLY TYPE IN FULL CAPITALIZATION IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CREATED A TEST TO SEE WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF ONE DROPPED AN ARMAMENT IN MUD BY USING EMOTIONALLY CHARGED ARGUMENTS.
Been a long time since any comments here, but I just saw this vid today (I've been binge watching InRange videos). As soon as I saw Ian beat that Valmet stock into the ground on its toe, I knew it was only a matter of time and sure enough, craaaaaack!!! If you're going to buttstroke the gun into Mother Earth, please do it toward the heel or with the flat of the butt plate. Ask me how I know. That being said I enjoy all your videos, guys, please keep it up. The COVID scare has given me a chance to go back and watch the older vids since I'm not working right now. Keep poking holes in myths for us. I for one am glad to see it.
It seems that while the imprecise manifacturing of the low quality variant is more suceptible to letting mud in the actuon, it also allows it to run, with the need to manually forvr the bolt into battery, while the more precise fitting will keep the boltface clean longer, it also wont run once it does get dirty.
I read alot of comments, I see what you all are doing with testing it. I've heard myself from alot of people that the AK could run even full of mud. So, I loved the SP1colt video, n this is a great one aswell.
On the high speed at 13:50 you can see the mud get chucked off by the firing and then see it get pushed forward by the charging handle, some of that has to go into the gun could that be the main cause of the failure?
It does seem like the cocking handle itself was trapping a lot of mud, and shoving that into the chamber. Would be interesting to test a Galil Ace which removed the handle.
Thunderbug Holy crap, you're right. Good eye! Now very interested to see a Galil ACE, especially with the Tavor's bad mud test performance. Makes me curious
Dedication to your craft - also know as smashing your unicorn of a Valmet stock to please internet trolls. Seriously - I love what you guys do and appreciate the great content. Keep up the good work!
I still love my AKs. I don't understand why people get so upset about these videos. The tests are meant to make the guns fail. I just take it as an opportunity to see how my gun will fail in certain conditions. Then, to try to avoid those conditions. Avtomat Kalashnikova is still my favorite and that won't change. Now I know what to watch out for. Great stuff guys. I'm gonna support you in patreon once I can afford it. Best channel on UA-cam. Thanks!
Please forgive me but I just can’t resist. I read this comment probably 10 years ago and I straight up stole it because it made me laugh hysterically like a nut from the nut house. “I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of AK lovers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced “. 😂
One of my trainers in Finnish army told me old loose Valmets work best in action since the working bits have more play to allow debree go in and out. Very good gun and fun to shoot altho cleaning was a pain since we were not allowed to pre-oil the guns before cleaning.. I guess they wanted us to REALLY scrub them.
Unfortunately that idea of a system with liberal clearances being more reliable in dirt and filth is more lore than reality. Guns are better off preventing ingress entirely than attempting to rely on trying to force dirt "out of the way". ~K
Yea I know that thanks to you guys. But the trainer was comparing new and old Valmets, and the new ones are good for accuracy but the older guns were better in real summer terrain. Altho the newer guns were better in winter and did not jam in ice like some of the really worn out ones did. Ofcourse you could always just hit a tree or something with the gun but then the sights usually went out of spec. I mean, so worn that you could not hit a target reliably from 100 metres.
Despite popular belief, most of the U.S. southwestern desert is more dirt rather than sand. Sand is a bit fancy, though you could just get a few bags from the big Orange HD.
You guys are great your in range series is a good one. You are right, you just can't please everyone. I have made my own dumb comments in the past, but all in all I enjoy what you do here and will continue to watch, and when times are better for me I will also support you guys.
As always, good informative work. It is very gratifying to hear gun-dudes correctly use somewhat bigger words than most normal conversational gun-dude speech. I mean like, Indubitably dude.
I like AKs a lot, I have a 7.62 and a 5.45 version (the 7.62 being an Arsenal!). I also shoot an M4 as my primary weapon in the Army. I think it's ok to love both systems, and as sad as it makes me seeing these results, it makes me happy knowing that what I'm carrying as a soldier vastly outperforms the AK platform in rough conditions.
After this test I'm really interested to see how a FNC or a galil ace would do, considering the unique dust covers they have, is the galil ace the only ak that could pass the test?
I kind of feel the same way about a standard TAR-21 vs. the X95, the original seems like it's better sealed and the ejection paddle isn't a button so it shouldn't run into the mag ejection issues they had on the X95. The gap behind the trigger, however, would still absolutely get clogged to shit.
I tried a mud test on two of my aks after the last video just to see and the same thing happened, the action has loose enought toloarance to push mud out of the way but once it got into the chamber it was done, which is a death nail for any gun.
In Finland biggest worry with Valmets (RK62 and RK95) were with ice in winter. Heated tent and -20°C outside is bad combo, moisture condenses into the ice cold rifle. So we cept them close to the tents walls were it was coldest inside to prevent condensation. Another thing, mil spec RKs doesn't have wooden stocks, 62 has steel tube style, inside it is cleaning equipments, and 95 has folding polymer stock
I always found the M76 wooden stocks a bit funny looking, since I'm used to the tubular steel stocks that they have with RK62. Apparently it's also an option with the M76. So I'd recommend that if you're tired of breaking your wooden stock! (The cool looks are a plus too! :D)
On the slow motion it appears that the slight upward angle of the ejection port is prime for mud to fall off of the upper cover and right into the action while the bolt is cycling. It also looks like as the bolt is closing the charging handle is scooping even more of the falling mud into the action. I can see two ways two ways around this: either wipe the area above the travel of the charging handle, or turn the gun pretty far over onto its right side for the first few shots until the vibrations from firing have knocked the mud off. Oh I almost forgot the third way, switch to an AR that doesn't have this problem.
qk1001 Several, from ARs to the L85 to bolt actions to shotguns to belt fed machine guns. I just have an aesthetic preference and find the AK platform enjoyable to shoot.
qk1001 Uh huh, whatever dude. I was just expressing my fondness for a specific platform that I have used more often than others over the years. It wasn't some dig at other weapons being bad. I don't think the AK is 'better' I just said I prefer it. Fuck me for having an opinion though right?
Its just your wording dude, you said you preferred the irons and handling but you prefer it over what? You should have just said you prefer its aesthetics and history or something :D
You like shitty tangent sights with a bad sight radius? ok.....got it. I'm sorry I own an AK and a VZ, I love them both but the sights? Seriously? They're shit.
I have to admit that I'm not surprised by this, on a few levels. Also, quite surprised. Just reinforces the point you guys made about tolerances and trade offs. The tighter the tolerances, the harder it seems to be clear of this type of crap. Not only that, the more obvious, spectactular, the failure is, when it finally reaches that point.
I'm of the belief that these 2 gentlemen are testing the platform and the manufacturer makes very little difference under the testing circumstances. They are not using mass batches of hundreds of different manufacturers submitting all the variants that could potentially perform better or worse. They are testing basic principles of the platform that could potentially plague any build. These tests are not only valid, but crucial to developing better results in future designs... I've rewatched these Mud Tests and will continue to support and respect the data provided. To do otherwise is simply blissful ignorance...
the reason h 556 g3style ran better than the 308 is because you used a cetme L for the 556 and it doesnt have the rear of the ejection port flared out to act as a deflector. the c308 you used for the 308 version has the rear of the ejection port flared out. when the side of the bolt is caked in mud, all that mud gets wedged into the receiver space by that flare out, wheras the cetme L has a scraping effect.
One theory, bolt face surface area. The large flat face of the bolt carrier is pushing the mud in the chamber faster than the round can seat. In the high speed it even looks like the charging handle itself is pushing a wave of mud in front of it. Cool video guys, would live to see a follow up on the results of cleaning/failure analysis.
Outstanding video. I really think Karl hit the nail on the head when he talked about the irrational attachments folks have with their firearms. My take on the AK, it's a very good combat machine and like all machines it can fail or get gummed up. Same for any other piece of machinery. With that said, and having had the opportunity to carry both the AK and AR (M4) on combat missions, I will take the AR platform any day of the week. This is not a knock on the AK as it is a great weapon but it does have flaws and it is getting a bit long in the tooth as well as the fact I like the ergos of the AR platform better. Keep stirring the pot, these vids are fun just for some of the comments.
I noticed on the slow mo footage the charging handle knocked mud into the chamber. Do you think a galil ace would do better than a traditional ak variant.
I was thinking of the RK-95 myself (with it's rounded and upwards angled charging handle) but the Galil indeed seems like a logical gun to test. But I bet the guys are getting sick of doing mud tests on AK variants.
In field conditions it´s not only whether you can prevent dirt and debris from getting into the gun, but also how fast you can get it functioning again. I don´t know about the ARs but the AKs are cleanable in well under a minute if you have a bore snake and a pair of hands. Maybe you guys could take this into account somehow as well?
Yea when I'm in a trench and my gun jams with the enemy right in front of me I will be saying thank goodness it's easy to clean not why did my gun shit the bed in the
I feel like the AK would handle ice better than the AR, but at the end of the day they are both combat rifles and therefore will survive the rigors of whatever range you prefer to shoot at. is one *technically* better? maybe, but its immaterial
Just a thought. Looking at the slow motion, where mud was flying off the Valmet, it looked like it might be possible the cocking handle moving forward was deflecting bits of mud into the ejection port.
And there´s the reason we only used steel for the buttstocks on our military RK62s and RK95s in Finland (and only milled guns after a short tryout of the stamped guns that proved them non-conscript proof :D ). Now the armed forces are moving into "magpul" stocks etc, which is a mistake. They will fail in the cold. Plastic/polymers and extreme cold don´t mix too well.
AKs tend to run well in sandy dry areas such as the theatres in the middle east because of the lower tolerances they are able to blow sand out of the receiver and work pretty well. No guns really work well in mud.. at least when the mud gets in the action. ARs are sealed up pretty well so its generally harder to get mud or sand into the action.. but due to the higher tolerances when particulates do get in they gum up real bad. This is just what I have gathered from my own experience and books I have read on the two firearms. That being said I would love to see sand tests from you guys!
LOL! Truth be told, I didn't even watch the video when I left the original comment (I was scarfing down breakfast before running out the door to work), I just knew that the haters were gonna dogpile on this one. But holy flark, you weren't kidding. I'd say that was the worst Princess Leia impression I've ever seen... but honestly, mine's probably worse.
a small compressed air canister might have been able to clear out the stoppage if it was just compressed sand but if it was anything larger you can forget about getting that cleared in the field.
Guys! Guys! I learned something....... I learned that if I wanted a gun to pass an extreme mud test I want an AR, but if I wanted a rifle for genral use I could use most any rifle. The rifle is a tool the rifleman is the weapon.
"Help me Varusteleka, you're my only hope,"- Ian McCollum (fallsetto voice). Great video as always guys. People definitely get emotional about these tests perhaps because they are trying to justify their own purchases. Another thing to point out to people is that tests using samples of one gun generally are more demonstrative then definitive. InRangeTV has done a better job by including more samples of the Kalashnikov and Armalite designs which makes the results more scientifically valid.
Karl, remember also the selection bias of *who* comments on such a video. You primarily see the emotional comments because those are the people driven enough to say something.
There is a story I heard about Russian AK's in Vietnam. The man, who was Vietnamese, said that what would happen is that the Russian's would send AKs to China, so the Chinese would send their AKs to Vietnam. The Vietnamese would divy out the AKs to whoever needed them on top of the really poorly made Vietnamese AKs. A lot of Vietnamese veterans often say their guns were really bad and would fear the guns would break. Granted they did get some Russian ones or other Warsaw pact ones, but the majority were Chinese.
You can get actual Russian parts kits, but they are freaky expensive. And people would probably still complain since it's an American receiver, but nuts to them.
There are some pretty reasonably priced examples on GB right now for well under $2k. I've seen them locally (one at Cabelas gun library oddly enough) for $1100. There about as affordable as any other halfway decent semi auto rifle I think.
StudyinSteel thankfully I'm a scientist. All I need is a doctor to extract my marrow, then I can separate out the blood stem cells myself! Hell, that's easier than giving up a kidney!
Seeing mud on the Valmet physically hurt me. Ian why. Also, is there any way to pick those up in the US anymore? I'm not very partial to the AK platform but the Valmet is just perfection.
Daris1 The direct impingement system probably blows the mud further away as gas is vented through the ejection port. The different gas system the HK416 used had a harder time with the mud test when they tested it.
If the soldier in the field is reduced to having to use his precious water supply (which he needs to drink too btw) then thats a major problem too, not to mention you can only do that so many times before you dont have water in the canteen and I doubt others will share ^^
@mirch verr: I imagine that a soldier in the field probably wouldn't get that amount of dirt on his weapon either unless he dropped it in the mud(which could happen). In which case if he had to choose between having his weapon working in a firefight or plan his water rationing, I think he might choose to rinse his weapon off. I'm just assuming, I've never been in a firefight. I still find your videos entertaining and informative, I'm just curious what a quick rinse of water through the weapon might do.
Gun Jesus sacrificing his beloved Valmet for our sins. Blessed be His name.
mashmo0823 amen........or Allah Akbar. Hahaha
Thy Auctions Come, their History Done. On Bids, as it is in UA-cam.
Give us this day, our daily video, and explaneth to us the provenance of this weapon, as your source material explaineth to you.
Peace be upon him. .....
How much is a Valmet M76?
The rifle was not oiled with vodka and lacked the Adidas logo
TEST NOT ACCURATE
StudyinSteel
Or cosmo
I wonder if anyone has ever seen you two walking off into the desert with a wheel barrow, a shovel and guns and thought about calling the authorities? Lol
"I've learned that the general audience that watches this content has an irrational emotional attachment to a mechanical device."
Exactly.
He spends a lot more on his mechanical devices than I do though. Love my AKs, this is a good reminder to either A. not immerse your rifle in mud, comrade or B. clean your rifle pretty soon after you immerse it in mud, comrade.
A basic description of the second amendment
The main reason i like AKs over ARs is literally sentimental reasons
Still waiting for a G11 mud test.
When you said the people have an irrational attachment to a weapon reminded me of my father. He was in WW2 and talked about how he often went into combat with an M1, B.A.R. ,Thompson or something else and would come out with something different. When his weapon ran out of ammo or was damaged he picked up what was at hand. There were weapons he liked. But he made sure he knew how to use them all. Both American and German. He used everything from a Bazooka to his bare hands. He survived, not because of his weapon but because of his training, skill sets, and determination. He also saw people who died because they ran out of ammo and never thought to pick up the K98 at their feet.
"Some guy on the internet told me an AK will work even if it's full of mud so now I won't believe it when I see one fail with my own eyes" - Everyone who's jimmies are rustled by these videos.
vk.com/id101881941
I'm sorry but this test is totally bogus.
You didn't use Warsaw spec mud.
Russian Bakelite mud
Fulda gap mud is best comrade
"Muds defective comrade"
It'll fail quicker if you use that kind of spec
The Wheelbarrow seems to be absolutely reliable in these tests, even after so many years of mud. :-)
You guys didnt use the illegal german prototype remake of the ak, no wonder the test didnt work
KelloPudgerro
Gerät 06H, what Gerät 06H? This is just a loose assortment of lead pipes and wood, officer!
The Wieger STG 940?
KelloPudgerro Early German production MPi AK-74 had problems with to tight tolerances in production.
I'm only 11 seconds in I don't know if I want to watch you pour mud on a valmet. It may literally hurt my insides
Well it certainly hurt the Valmet's insides...
I feel like the charging handle throws mud right into the chamber on its forward stroke! Great vids guys
The last ak variant I hope you guys get to test is the Galil Ace. The reciprocating cover and sealed receiver should solve the issue of the mud in the locking lugs. Great video!
Matt Carden that would be cool
Since the old school charging handle pushes crap in, I would be intrigued to see even the regular galil in this
Jantunen yeah I believe the old school galil would fair exactly the same as these ak's. I think the new "Ace" version would stand a pretty good chance
Wouldn't change much I think. The ejection port is too big and too high for the sealing of the rear of the receiver to make much difference if you watch the video here and pay attention to the type of malfs they're getting.
I want them to mud test an Ak-12 but that is probably never going to happen. I love how that gun looks.
*ASETARKASTUKSIIN AIKAA 2 MINUUTTIA!*
2min? 🤔.....
Paskaa patruunapesässä, korjatkaa
no hablo homie. Translation?
But Karl, I don't have any skills to form an emotional attachment to.
When you mortared that valmet it caused me physical pain
first6digits sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do :(
Is it really an AK if you can't -mortar- leg it? :thonk:
"Oh great. Anew mud test what'll it be this ti..."
*Sees Valmet* Oh no... NO
Finally a Valmet. Thanks guys. You have shattered my illusions.
And the stock on the Valmet.
They used to sell these on Atlanticfirearms
Please yuse a valmet with lapua
I feel like people loving AKs beyond reason are the same kind of people who say that Japanese "Hand forged folded steel Katana" are the best blades in the entire universe.
Great video by the way, keep it up :)
edit: didn't scroll down the comment section before writing mine, seems like i'm not the only one thinking that, unsurprisingly.
The difference is that the Japanese put craftsmanship, art, precision, and care into the production of high quality swords. Ak's are just poorly-designed guns.
LinkHyrule03 Katanas were made with the best metal and technique they had at the time. The same cannot be said for some AKs.
Or like the IPhone vs. Android war.
@@LinkHyrule03 The steel is still bad in Japanese blades. They look good though.
@@LinkHyrule03 not poorly designed if the same basic operating system (rotating bolt) and ergonomics have lasted 70 years up into the newer variants of AKs like the AK107 and AK12.
You are dead wrong
I think the biggest issue with American AK owners is they think the rifle is indestructible and can just eat through any mud or rocks that enters the receiver. This is a myth. The AK's renowned reliability comes from it's ability to not require maintenance for long periods of time and the simplicity of clearing / cleaning it. In a firefight, if you SOMEHOW find a weapon in the condition as the one in this video, you pop the dust cover, shake everything out and go to town. An AR is less likely to get outside elements inside of the action; HOWEVER, if you do get junk around the trigger and behind the bolt, it is significantly harder to remedy than an AK is. Also, milspec AR's eat where they shit so cleaning has a much higher emphasis regarding extended use. The fact of the matter is, both guns have tons of myths that surround them and their owners like to get REALLY attached to them. AR's are reliable and are NOT the most accurate rifle ever made. AK's are accurate and are NOT impervious to mud and other outside elements. Once you accept the limitations of your rifle, you can fully appreciate it's function.
Sincerely, a Vepr AK74 owner
I'm currently at 850 rounds through my $350 PSA AR-15 without cleaning or lubrication.
Just sayin'.
I think the biggest thing to take away is the need for knowing how to fix problems on your chosen platform and the general trade off on what you want.
So I'm seeing down here UK AKs, German prototype AKs, and the obvious Russian AKs. Let us go to the next level.
it failed because it wasn't a Japanese AK
Steel folded over one thousand times, it will ABSORB the mud !
or something
love the slowmo's. Looks like the charging handle is actually throwing mud into the chamber as it closes.
I'm a big fan of the mudtest content on In Range. This is what originally attracted me to In Range and I would love to more rifles tested in this manner. That includes testing newer designs such as an FN Scar or a Steyr AUG and maybe a few more AR or AK variants such as a gas piston AR or a Galil. Thank you for the informative and entertaining content. Please keep up the good work.
Ah, there's a Valmet in my helmet.
Man, I miss Dugan
Damnit Dugan, come back! We need you.
Masada he's actually fairly active on his instagram. But it's more political commentary now.
Ya, just wish he would make more videos. Even if they aren't the full length things he was doing I'd still be happy.
Brilliant video, guys!
Finally l've got a video l can refer to when talking to other people who have served in the Finnish military. Now l can say with confidence that my personal AR actually is more reliable in some conditions.
I HAVE AN IRRATIONAL FEAR THAT A GUN I DON'T ACTUALLY OWN WILL FAIL A TEST THAT CAN REPLICATE REAL WORLD CONDITIONS THAT I WILL NEVER BE IN.
I HAVE AN IRRATIONAL URGE TO RANDOMLY TYPE IN FULL CAPITALIZATION IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO CREATED A TEST TO SEE WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF ONE DROPPED AN ARMAMENT IN MUD BY USING EMOTIONALLY CHARGED ARGUMENTS.
Are you slow in the humour uptake?
@@baker90338 You and at least three other people didn't get the joke.
Been a long time since any comments here, but I just saw this vid today (I've been binge watching InRange videos). As soon as I saw Ian beat that Valmet stock into the ground on its toe, I knew it was only a matter of time and sure enough, craaaaaack!!! If you're going to buttstroke the gun into Mother Earth, please do it toward the heel or with the flat of the butt plate. Ask me how I know. That being said I enjoy all your videos, guys, please keep it up. The COVID scare has given me a chance to go back and watch the older vids since I'm not working right now. Keep poking holes in myths for us. I for one am glad to see it.
Those Russian plumb mags are a beauty
If you think those are beautiful, you should take a look at the Molot ribbed RPK-74 mags. Those look even more beautiful.
Yes you are right! those are awesome too.
Ribbed for pleasure
"Help me, Varusteleka! You're my only hope!"
Oh god my sides
This never gets boring,, best YT channel,, best gunn couple 🤜🏿
It seems that while the imprecise manifacturing of the low quality variant is more suceptible to letting mud in the actuon, it also allows it to run, with the need to manually forvr the bolt into battery, while the more precise fitting will keep the boltface clean longer, it also wont run once it does get dirty.
The Valmet with the mud on it looks strangely cool. When it dried it almost fit in with Ian's camo.
I read alot of comments, I see what you all are doing with testing it. I've heard myself from alot of people that the AK could run even full of mud. So, I loved the SP1colt video, n this is a great one aswell.
On the high speed at 13:50 you can see the mud get chucked off by the firing and then see it get pushed forward by the charging handle, some of that has to go into the gun could that be the main cause of the failure?
would be interesting to see an AK mud test with no charging handle
It does seem like the cocking handle itself was trapping a lot of mud, and shoving that into the chamber. Would be interesting to test a Galil Ace which removed the handle.
Thunderbug Holy crap, you're right. Good eye! Now very interested to see a Galil ACE, especially with the Tavor's bad mud test performance. Makes me curious
retakrew7 you probably talking about the galil ace
A rearward-swept charging handle would avoid that.
Dedication to your craft - also know as smashing your unicorn of a Valmet stock to please internet trolls. Seriously - I love what you guys do and appreciate the great content. Keep up the good work!
When Ian pores mud on that Valmet, all I could here was; Perkele!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Not the Valmet!!!!! The Horror!!!!!! You just had to break the stock! Great post... To bad you broke the Valmet....
Try finding a Finnish pine tree. Hitting the pine tree with your Valmet rifle fixes like 90% of all mechanical failures. Facts!
They'd have to go to like Oregon for closest possible equivalent.
I still love my AKs. I don't understand why people get so upset about these videos. The tests are meant to make the guns fail. I just take it as an opportunity to see how my gun will fail in certain conditions. Then, to try to avoid those conditions. Avtomat Kalashnikova is still my favorite and that won't change. Now I know what to watch out for. Great stuff guys. I'm gonna support you in patreon once I can afford it. Best channel on UA-cam. Thanks!
Please forgive me but I just can’t resist. I read this comment probably 10 years ago and I straight up stole it because it made me laugh hysterically like a nut from the nut house. “I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of AK lovers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced “. 😂
One of my trainers in Finnish army told me old loose Valmets work best in action since the working bits have more play to allow debree go in and out. Very good gun and fun to shoot altho cleaning was a pain since we were not allowed to pre-oil the guns before cleaning.. I guess they wanted us to REALLY scrub them.
Unfortunately that idea of a system with liberal clearances being more reliable in dirt and filth is more lore than reality. Guns are better off preventing ingress entirely than attempting to rely on trying to force dirt "out of the way". ~K
Yea I know that thanks to you guys. But the trainer was comparing new and old Valmets, and the new ones are good for accuracy but the older guns were better in real summer terrain. Altho the newer guns were better in winter and did not jam in ice like some of the really worn out ones did. Ofcourse you could always just hit a tree or something with the gun but then the sights usually went out of spec. I mean, so worn that you could not hit a target reliably from 100 metres.
"Jenkins. Chap with the wings, there ... FIVE ROUNDS RAPID!"
The Top Gear UK of gun shows. Not a gun owner (damnable European laws) but love the content, guys. That poor poor Valmet.
Lord of Flies Many European countries allows you own guns, so be more specific.
sandtests sound like a great idea
Despite popular belief, most of the U.S. southwestern desert is more dirt rather than sand. Sand is a bit fancy, though you could just get a few bags from the big Orange HD.
I love it when you guys shred people with knowledge instead of stereotypes....
Excellent Test! My condolences for the loss of your Valmet Stock! :( Would like to see a mud test on the Walther P38.
You guys are great your in range series is a good one. You are right, you just can't please everyone. I have made my own dumb comments in the past, but all in all I enjoy what you do here and will continue to watch, and when times are better for me I will also support you guys.
IT looks like the charging handle grabs the muds and slings it forward. Therefore, the sling mud mashes it into the chamber.
As always, good informative work. It is very gratifying to hear gun-dudes correctly use somewhat bigger words than most normal conversational gun-dude speech. I mean like, Indubitably dude.
I like AKs a lot, I have a 7.62 and a 5.45 version (the 7.62 being an Arsenal!). I also shoot an M4 as my primary weapon in the Army. I think it's ok to love both systems, and as sad as it makes me seeing these results, it makes me happy knowing that what I'm carrying as a soldier vastly outperforms the AK platform in rough conditions.
There's nothing better than to come back from filling sandbags and see a inrange mud test.
After this test I'm really interested to see how a FNC or a galil ace would do, considering the unique dust covers they have, is the galil ace the only ak that could pass the test?
I kind of feel the same way about a standard TAR-21 vs. the X95, the original seems like it's better sealed and the ejection paddle isn't a button so it shouldn't run into the mag ejection issues they had on the X95. The gap behind the trigger, however, would still absolutely get clogged to shit.
3:59 what he said was actually probably the best thing I've heard from any gun video. He is very right on that
I tried a mud test on two of my aks after the last video just to see and the same thing happened, the action has loose enought toloarance to push mud out of the way but once it got into the chamber it was done, which is a death nail for any gun.
In Finland biggest worry with Valmets (RK62 and RK95) were with ice in winter. Heated tent and -20°C outside is bad combo, moisture condenses into the ice cold rifle. So we cept them close to the tents walls were it was coldest inside to prevent condensation. Another thing, mil spec RKs doesn't have wooden stocks, 62 has steel tube style, inside it is cleaning equipments, and 95 has folding polymer stock
I always found the M76 wooden stocks a bit funny looking, since I'm used to the tubular steel stocks that they have with RK62. Apparently it's also an option with the M76. So I'd recommend that if you're tired of breaking your wooden stock! (The cool looks are a plus too! :D)
Putting the Valmet to a mudtest is like driving a Ferrari off a cliff to see if its going to dent.....LOL You guys are awesome!
UNFAIR TEST! with the AR-15 you used a flat-nosed shovel, and with this you used a spade.
On the slow motion it appears that the slight upward angle of the ejection port is prime for mud to fall off of the upper cover and right into the action while the bolt is cycling. It also looks like as the bolt is closing the charging handle is scooping even more of the falling mud into the action.
I can see two ways two ways around this: either wipe the area above the travel of the charging handle, or turn the gun pretty far over onto its right side for the first few shots until the vibrations from firing have knocked the mud off.
Oh I almost forgot the third way, switch to an AR that doesn't have this problem.
I'll admit, when I saw mud lathered on the Valmet M76, I cringed so hard! That's my dream rifle!!!!
Valmet: When fit and Finnish matters
I love the AK but it's not because I buy into any BS. I just prefer the irons and handling on it.
qk1001 Several, from ARs to the L85 to bolt actions to shotguns to belt fed machine guns. I just have an aesthetic preference and find the AK platform enjoyable to shoot.
qk1001 is it? Just because something is better doesnt mean you get along with it better
qk1001 Uh huh, whatever dude. I was just expressing my fondness for a specific platform that I have used more often than others over the years. It wasn't some dig at other weapons being bad. I don't think the AK is 'better' I just said I prefer it. Fuck me for having an opinion though right?
Its just your wording dude, you said you preferred the irons and handling but you prefer it over what? You should have just said you prefer its aesthetics and history or something :D
You like shitty tangent sights with a bad sight radius? ok.....got it. I'm sorry I own an AK and a VZ, I love them both but the sights? Seriously? They're shit.
I have to admit that I'm not surprised by this, on a few levels.
Also, quite surprised.
Just reinforces the point you guys made about tolerances and trade offs. The tighter the tolerances, the harder it seems to be clear of this type of crap. Not only that, the more obvious, spectactular, the failure is, when it finally reaches that point.
BUT MUH INFALLIBLE AVTOMAT KALASHNIKOVA!!!
ZHA FILTHY AMERICAN IMPERIALIST PEEGZ KANNOT UNDASTAN MY GLORIUS RYFLE BLYAT!
If a spare Valmet stock proves hard to find you can always replace it with a magpul stock to imitate the RK62's latest FDF upgrade.
I'm of the belief that these 2 gentlemen are testing the platform and the manufacturer makes very little difference under the testing circumstances.
They are not using mass batches of hundreds of different manufacturers submitting all the variants that could potentially perform better or worse. They are testing basic principles of the platform that could potentially plague any build. These tests are not only valid, but crucial to developing better results in future designs...
I've rewatched these Mud Tests and will continue to support and respect the data provided. To do otherwise is simply blissful ignorance...
the reason h 556 g3style ran better than the 308 is because you used a cetme L for the 556 and it doesnt have the rear of the ejection port flared out to act as a deflector. the c308 you used for the 308 version has the rear of the ejection port flared out. when the side of the bolt is caked in mud, all that mud gets wedged into the receiver space by that flare out, wheras the cetme L has a scraping effect.
You should test an FNC or SIG 550 to see if that spring-loaded dust cover helps.
One theory, bolt face surface area. The large flat face of the bolt carrier is pushing the mud in the chamber faster than the round can seat. In the high speed it even looks like the charging handle itself is pushing a wave of mud in front of it. Cool video guys, would live to see a follow up on the results of cleaning/failure analysis.
Outstanding video. I really think Karl hit the nail on the head when he talked about the irrational attachments folks have with their firearms. My take on the AK, it's a very good combat machine and like all machines it can fail or get gummed up. Same for any other piece of machinery. With that said, and having had the opportunity to carry both the AK and AR (M4) on combat missions, I will take the AR platform any day of the week. This is not a knock on the AK as it is a great weapon but it does have flaws and it is getting a bit long in the tooth as well as the fact I like the ergos of the AR platform better. Keep stirring the pot, these vids are fun just for some of the comments.
Oh the sacrifice you guys make ....
Hail and we'll met
Thank you for your vids
I noticed on the slow mo footage the charging handle knocked mud into the chamber. Do you think a galil ace would do better than a traditional ak variant.
I was thinking of the RK-95 myself (with it's rounded and upwards angled charging handle) but the Galil indeed seems like a logical gun to test. But I bet the guys are getting sick of doing mud tests on AK variants.
I'm talking about the galil ace not the original galil
A Nonymous I hear what your saying. but I'm still curious, especially when considering the fnc style cover on the left side charging handle.
In field conditions it´s not only whether you can prevent dirt and debris from getting into the gun, but also how fast you can get it functioning again. I don´t know about the ARs but the AKs are cleanable in well under a minute if you have a bore snake and a pair of hands. Maybe you guys could take this into account somehow as well?
Yea when I'm in a trench and my gun jams with the enemy right in front of me I will be saying thank goodness it's easy to clean not why did my gun shit the bed in the
Thing to remember about sand tests, desert sand is different from beach sand is different from builders sand.
Different deserts have different sand. But then again, muds are different too (Humus vs. clay) I also suspect more damage with sand than mud.
I feel like the AK would handle ice better than the AR, but at the end of the day they are both combat rifles and therefore will survive the rigors of whatever range you prefer to shoot at. is one *technically* better? maybe, but its immaterial
Inb4: "Cyka blyat idi nahui *desk abuse intensifies*"
Just a thought. Looking at the slow motion, where mud was flying off the Valmet, it looked like it might be possible the cocking handle moving forward was deflecting bits of mud into the ejection port.
And there´s the reason we only used steel for the buttstocks on our military RK62s and RK95s in Finland (and only milled guns after a short tryout of the stamped guns that proved them non-conscript proof :D ). Now the armed forces are moving into "magpul" stocks etc, which is a mistake. They will fail in the cold. Plastic/polymers and extreme cold don´t mix too well.
I love the fact that Carl doesn't pull any punches. He says what he means and means what he says.
AKs tend to run well in sandy dry areas such as the theatres in the middle east because of the lower tolerances they are able to blow sand out of the receiver and work pretty well. No guns really work well in mud.. at least when the mud gets in the action. ARs are sealed up pretty well so its generally harder to get mud or sand into the action.. but due to the higher tolerances when particulates do get in they gum up real bad. This is just what I have gathered from my own experience and books I have read on the two firearms. That being said I would love to see sand tests from you guys!
hard task ian! those stocks for stamped receiver are quite rare. if it helps i can ask new stock for you from sako-valmet, if there are any left.
Let the butt-hurt commence!
[insert evil cackling here]
Raptor literally, given the outcome
LOL! Truth be told, I didn't even watch the video when I left the original comment (I was scarfing down breakfast before running out the door to work), I just knew that the haters were gonna dogpile on this one. But holy flark, you weren't kidding.
I'd say that was the worst Princess Leia impression I've ever seen... but honestly, mine's probably worse.
There needs to be an inrange t shirt that says "we mortar valmet's". I will take three.
Yugos also did a lot of export models. Iraqis used the Yugo variant too. Not better, but hey we won't turn down more AK videos...
a small compressed air canister might have been able to clear out the stoppage if it was just compressed sand but if it was anything larger you can forget about getting that cleared in the field.
Guys! Guys! I learned something....... I learned that if I wanted a gun to pass an extreme mud test I want an AR, but if I wanted a rifle for genral use I could use most any rifle. The rifle is a tool the rifleman is the weapon.
That is the conclusion I reached as well.
Except for the L85, pre-A1
In the context of these mud tests it did the best.
"Help me Varusteleka, you're my only hope,"- Ian McCollum (fallsetto voice).
Great video as always guys. People definitely get emotional about these tests perhaps because they are trying to justify their own purchases. Another thing to point out to people is that tests using samples of one gun generally are more demonstrative then definitive. InRangeTV has done a better job by including more samples of the Kalashnikov and Armalite designs which makes the results more scientifically valid.
Karl, remember also the selection bias of *who* comments on such a video. You primarily see the emotional comments because those are the people driven enough to say something.
There is a story I heard about Russian AK's in Vietnam. The man, who was Vietnamese, said that what would happen is that the Russian's would send AKs to China, so the Chinese would send their AKs to Vietnam. The Vietnamese would divy out the AKs to whoever needed them on top of the really poorly made Vietnamese AKs. A lot of Vietnamese veterans often say their guns were really bad and would fear the guns would break. Granted they did get some Russian ones or other Warsaw pact ones, but the majority were Chinese.
Your mud is scientifically inconsistent, just kidding, Thanks for the videos.
You can get actual Russian parts kits, but they are freaky expensive. And people would probably still complain since it's an American receiver, but nuts to them.
that poor Velmet... give it to me I will clean it up
Rodney Peters
Would you be doing this with or without porno music?
that valmet looks badass.
Wonder if anyone would accept a trade of a slightly used kidney, only ever had 1 kidney stone, for a Finnish Valmet?
Griff you are going to have to do better. valmet or sako 76 go for average of $2500 and 92s for $6000
There are some pretty reasonably priced examples on GB right now for well under $2k. I've seen them locally (one at Cabelas gun library oddly enough) for $1100.
There about as affordable as any other halfway decent semi auto rifle I think.
StudyinSteel thankfully I'm a scientist. All I need is a doctor to extract my marrow, then I can separate out the blood stem cells myself!
Hell, that's easier than giving up a kidney!
Seeing mud on the Valmet physically hurt me. Ian why.
Also, is there any way to pick those up in the US anymore? I'm not very partial to the AK platform but the Valmet is just perfection.
They're hard to get (expensive) and the Valmet is not perfection, it's obsolescent now compared to other more modern (yes, more modern) AKs. ~K
Did anyone realize that the charging handle was pulling mud into the chamber?
Daris1 The direct impingement system probably blows the mud further away as gas is vented through the ejection port. The different gas system the HK416 used had a harder time with the mud test when they tested it.
Another sacred cow cook off. Smells good!
Why don't you guys use a canteen of water to try to wash some mud out. I'm assuming someone in the field would also have this capability?
If the soldier in the field is reduced to having to use his precious water supply (which he needs to drink too btw) then thats a major problem too, not to mention you can only do that so many times before you dont have water in the canteen and I doubt others will share ^^
@mirch verr: I imagine that a soldier in the field probably wouldn't get that amount of dirt on his weapon either unless he dropped it in the mud(which could happen). In which case if he had to choose between having his weapon working in a firefight or plan his water rationing, I think he might choose to rinse his weapon off. I'm just assuming, I've never been in a firefight. I still find your videos entertaining and informative, I'm just curious what a quick rinse of water through the weapon might do.
Next: How to clean your Valmet after a mudtest uncensored?