Pretty much every two stroke oil out there being made is now "D" rated and not long ago was "C" rated which by the way was decent oil until these "strato saw's" came along, then everyone had to up their oil game and go to a better grade of oil hence "FD" to give a little more protection. So for Stihl to be messing around with older sub grade rated oils which were all the rage more than 20+ years ago lead's me to believe it's no accident or that they are unaware of what's going on. Yes I know they don't bottle oil themselves but by their direction to who does for them, they are not that ignorant it's a decision they've made on purpose. That decision is have early or premature wear or failure so they can sell more new product plain and simple. The Stihl fan's can say oh no no they would never do that, when corporate greed take's over we all know where that lead's. You probably don't want to touch that one but I have no problem saying it all point's in that direction it seems; anyways I've rambled to long take care.
You're spot on. Stihl reps will tell you if your having this issue "you're not running it right". Any new, non-4Mix, true two stroke will be back in for service in a matter of months for a "no start" issue. The spark arrestor will be clogged. String trimmers, hedgetrimmers and handheld blowers are run in short bursts and never really get run hard. The clogged spark arrestor issue will not be covered by the "double your warranty" pledge of running Ultra. You'll be told you didn't mix the fuel right. Most all shops have a minimum .5hr labor charge of $40-50 so Stihl knows exactly what they're doing.
Yeah it kind of amazes me that Stihl would put out a product; that's their "ultra premium"; that's not even FD rated. I think you're spot on, it's a form of planned obsolescence. Reminds me of a Chickanic video I just watched where she talks about the fact that strimmer gear heads no longer have a greasing nipple. The more stuff breaks the more these companies make unfortunately. Then they'll blame it on you and claim you didn't mix their "excellent" oil correctly
I copped on to the ultra mostly from Richards videos if I'm honest, ultra is rubbish only fb rated, for to keep the epa happy. I went back to stihl hp super its fd rated iso L Egd. Its green as well but a way nicer brighter cleaner green compared to the pond water. I'm not taking any chances with my saw, 45 to 1 ratio with aspen 4 for super long fuel life and engine cleanliness.
@@AnarchAngel1 Don't forget according to manufacture's recommendation's you no longer have to change engine oil in your push mower's or lawn tractor's. Oh and no dip stick to even check your transmission oil level in your vehicle never mind changing it heaven forbid. It's filled and sealed at the factory so you never have to, "Good for life" ya a pretty short one.
@@6900pilot Carful with those long life "engineered" fuel's that's being bantered around these day's they are not all what they claim to be. They have a tendency to burn pretty sooty ie produce a lot of carbon, some don't really want to burn proper but a lot of these fuels actually make most two stroke equipment harder to start or won't run at all with it in the tank. Dump it out and put regular fresh gas with a good mix and they fire right up go figure. There's lot's of video's on UA-cam with quit a few well known UA-camr's doing all kind's of test's on this stuff showing it for what it is; and that is a lot of marketing hype by these company's. Another fun fact a lot of people are not aware of is Stihl's motomix ready to use premix fuel in a can also use's ultra swamp water sorry pond sludge in that crap I know shocker!
I had a MS251 Stihl given to me because the compression was so extreme at cold start that the owner didn't want it anymore. I tried it and he was right, I couldn't believe how hard it was to start it, I'm not joking. I pulled the muffler to have a look inside and just like you, could see carbon and a dark honey colored piston. I did notice that once the saw had warmed up it would start like normal and ran perfect but once it sat overnight it would go back to extreme compression again. I did my research and noticed other people dissing Stihl oil and how much it coated the piston and cylinder so I called the person who gave it to me and low and behold he was using Stihl oil mix since he bought it. I then read about Echo's Red Armor and how it cleans so I bought a gallon of True Fuel (straight gas) and mixed Red Armor into it to achieve a 40:1 mix and ran that saw through a bunch of firewood until the gallon was done and it solved the issue. Now when I pull the muffler there is only a light coating of carbon and the piston is silvery like it should be. Now I have a nice running Stihl.
🍻 Cheers buddy! As I've said before, I bought my 261 new and only used Ultra. My saw doesn't have any of what you showed. It must be your gas! 🤣 Stay safe my friend!
I have noticed that most all Mtronic/Autotune saws have that blow by coking on the skirts. Maybe due to the fine tuning by the saw itself. I have run Red Armor at 36:1 since I've had my 261cm, it still has that brownish on the skirts. Saw runs strong and all, but just reporting my observations. BUT there is very little carbon buildup in the exhaust port. So that is a plus. Saw is ported... Love these videos Rich. Thanks for doing these for us. 🍻
I have been running SuperTech in that easy measure container for years. I haven’t had any issues, I run all my saws, blower and string trimmers on the rich side. They all need a load, run them dull or with no string p, they blow up.
I did a video on my channel of my 15 yr old BG-86 always run on 10% ethanol fuel with Ultra oil. Maybe it’s because I use 40-1 but the piston, exhaust port, and cylinder look like new!
I have used sea foam in every two cycle I have owned, plus chevron Techron. There is very little carbon on piston, muffler. This starts the first use of the equipment, including out board two cycle. I put a 40/1 mix of oil.
After a lot of research im covinced the ultra is designed to keep the carbon inside the saw and not release it to the atmosphere, all to keep our environmentaly friendly buddies happy. Great videos Richard for telling and showing us your work and evidence of how crap that pond water really is.
Thank you Richard for telling folks the truth on this issue. I really hope that folks take the time, only a couple minutes, to write an email to Stihl expressing their disgust that in the US we do not have access to a Stihl FD rated 2 stroke oil. Keep on making these videos Richard. You are one of the only people out there staying on this issue. God bless......yee-haaa!
I got fed of of emailing them, they were constantly stating ultra is they're most premium oil, I use stihl hp super is a fd rated oil also green but way better quality, all the proper specs are on the bottle made in Germany unlike the blank ultra bottle without specs. Granted I'm in Europe so I don't know of hp super availability in your country..
@6900pilot. My guess is that this is driven by Stihl trying to meet emission standards of the EPA(Environmental Protection Agency) for their products by using an oil that is mixed at 50:1. The EPA is an agency of our federal government which has regulatory oversight of environmental issues. The equipment runs cleaner at 50:1 from an emissions perspective, but it destroys the equipment more quickly. My guess is that Stihl has found, through testing, that using an FD rated modern 2-stroke oil doesn't allow them to meet these EPA standards. I have no confirmation of any of this, it is simply what I believe may explain Stihl not giving American consumers access to their FD rated 2-stroke oil that is available in all of Europe as well as Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Hence the coking up with ultra, its designed to keep all the carbon inside the saw and not release it into the atmosphere. The stihl hp super is FD rated plus it has a fuel stabilizer and has a high detergent rating for piston cleanliness. I guess all you can do is move to a non stihl fd rated oil instead. There's plenty of good options out there, red armour would be a good option.
I have quit using stihl ultra HP oil in my equipment. I now run amsoil saber at a 40:1 mix and I use ethanol free fuel. I also have recommended that my friends and family switch to amsoil saber as I have . Stihl needs to get the oil up to the fd standard. I might consider running it again if they do, but amsoil is a good oil.
I’ve felt conflicted watching the guys carrying it in the store, but not checked out yet, like I should say something. “Sir, Have you found Richard Flagg in your life?”
Hey Richard, like your videos man very educational I like the way you break it down. In your humble opinion. Which I value. Which oil would you run in your saw.
I use Schaeffers 7000 in my personal equipment. Yes, it's an oil intended for water cooled engines, but it does a fine job in an air cooled engine too. I've used it for years. My next favorite is Saber. Both at 40:1.
I used to work on a lot of outboard motors . Many customers used seafoam in the motors on a regular basis, and the pistons and exhaust ports definately had less carbon than those that didn't use it. To clean up a carboned up motor requires quite a few tanks of fuel to get any real results. This stuff doesn't work in short term use.
My absolute BEST luck using it is to put the piston at TDC and put a splash in the cylinder. Let it sit for a day or two and then run it. Problem is if you lose a big ole chonk and it gets chewed.
Plenty of people treat seafoam like its a wonder additive because of the smoke. Reality is it will take time to clean out large build ups. If you add a little bit with each mixed tank of gas you will prevent build. Preventative maintenance is always better then reactive.
Haven't tried it in a saw yet but agree, sea foam is good stuff for loosening carbon. Also agree on why try improving a sub-par oil with additives when there are so many far superior oils on the market? And many of which are also cheaper!
One of the problems with oils that aren't fully synthetic is they use zinc and phosphorus as anti wear additives. These don't burn off completely and zinc for example actually attracts carbon. One of the reasons I switched from semi synthetics to fully synthetic like Saber
A lot of folks let their gas cans get hot out in sun, so gas turns to vapor and gas mix gets oil rich. Best to mix small batches for use in a day or so. Keep gas cans in shaded or cool area.
Been running red armor ever since learning about Stihl pond water from this channel, THANK YOU!! Just picked up an ms462cm and wondering if i should go 40:1. What would you recommend? I usually run my saws like I stole them 😮
Red Armor has really good film strength. Probably be fine at like 45:1, that's where I run Red Armor. I run Amsoil Saber in everything else at around 75:1
@@richardflagg3084 I stand corrected by a man that's been inside far, far more engines than me 😅 It's just looked to me like that stuff is everywhere even at 50:1. Still like Saber better 😏. Hey Richard if you were to run Saber in your personal saws what ratio would you settle on?
@@AnarchAngel1 I've got a couple of customers that run it at 40:1 and the oil film in the crankcase is really nice. It still burns cleaner than anything else at that ratio too. Buying it by the quart saves a bunch of money as well.
Takes awhile for the seafoam to work. I've cleaned up saws with it before. I usually stall them on it and wait a day or two to re start. I'm with you. Use an oil that keeps it clean. If you can get the guy to switch to Red Armor, that saw will be clean in no time. I use Mobil One synthetic high mileage in my stuff. My stuff stays clean and well lubricated. I have been thinking about changing to Red Armor though. Just to change things up a bit. The only drawback is price. I get four applications out of one quart of oil. Saves money.
If you can source it locally, try some Saber. It's about $15 a quart. Red Armor is a great oil, but it's $17ish for a half a quart. I don't understand the logic using 4 stroke oil, but it's your equipment and you can run what you want.
@@richardflagg3084 I didn't either at first. I collect saws, so I go through a lot of fuel. A guy on one of the forums told me about it, and I thought I would give it a try. I had a little wild thing that I had souped up,so I made it my testbed. I ran the snot out of it for months. That was close to twenty years ago. The piston, and cylinder look like brand new to this day. My cousin has it now. I've also cleaned up my old stuff that I use regularly that had God knows what run through them in the past.
@@timothybyrom5560I grew up in the late seventies through the eighties and I’ve torn down quite a few saw engines that were run on the old motor oil mix and they were a lot of the times in really good shape.
@@richardflagg3084 I won't use anything amsoil. I've had bad experiences with it. I was watching another of your videos, and I was reminded of the Schaefer oil. I LOVE anything made by them. My old boss is a dealer, so I think my next will be Schaefer. I've been doing the Mobil One thing for about twenty years. It's time for a change. I kinda miss that two cycle smell.
Seafoam might be ok to clean up the combustion chamber but its going to take a long time for it to do anything with the exhaust port. Better to run an FD oil like Red Armor which will eventually clean up the worst of the carbon buildup.
I plan on running amsoil Saber when I use up my ultra, due to your advice. Problem is I have 2 gallons of ultra and I hate to waste money. Do you run 50:1 with amsoil? I have seen so many different mixes on forums out there.
I think running Saber at 50:1 is fine especially in more high strung saws. I run it at that ratio in my newer auto tune Huskies. I run it at around 75-80:1 in some other saws and haven't had any issues. Saber has excellent anti wear additives and part of me feels like running it at 50:1 is a waste but you can be pretty confident your engine is getting properly lubricated at that ratio. Definitely one of the oils I never feel the need to mix any richer than that
I've been burning small quantities of Ultra off in my lawn mower just to get rid of it. My old 1984 JD 316 burns oil pretty good. I usually add a half a bottle(1-2 oz.) and top off with SAE30 is the easiest way for me to get rid of it.
I picked up my first "real" saw a couple weeks ago. a 261. I trusted that their ultra and 50:1 was the proper way to do things, and I'm a stickler for doing things right, but the more I look into it, I guess their oil is garbage? I've ran a gallon and a half of fuel with it so far. Guess from now on I'll use amsoil saber at 40:1 like I keep seeing people mention?
I work in a Stihl shop. We’ve found Stihl Ultra to work better at 42-45:1 on any properly jetted/tuned 2T machine…and run that machine hard. These are performance machines so make them work hard. Yes there are better oils out there, Motul 800 and Motorex are brilliant.
@@richardflagg3084 yeah interesting hey! I mean I've used ipone 2t oil when I couldn't get hp ultra and it coked up the pistons like what your seeing. but the HP ultra cleaned the pistons back to brand new after 2-3 tanks Interesting stuff.
@@momouppa I checked the Stihl AU and DE site and Ultra is listed as an FB rated oil , but the oil itself is a bright green/ forest green in color. US Ultra is dark olive green. I have no way of being 100% correct that the formulation is the same or different. I swear one of the non-US oils was FC or FD rated, Maybe it was Stihl super hp?
If you want to clean a 2 stroke engine or keep it clean, run Yamalube Ring Free Plus Fuel Additive from Yamaha. It doesn't get any better than this...period!
If it was a 50s outboard motor, Seafoam might do something. That's what is was made for. There are products for removing carbon. Wire brush, since there's no magic.
I have a question? I respect your opinion alot, so this is why I'm asking. I was bought a Chinese backpack blower as a gift to see if I'd like the backpack blower or hand held blower any way it's an EB650 It's a surprisingly damn good blower I've had it for over a year now with 0 issues, I do however take very good care of my equipment. Any who... It calls for a 25:1 mix which I've been running. What oil in your opinion is the best to use? Do you think Amsoil? And what ratio should I mix if I use said oil? Thank you in advance Richard.
@richardflagg3084 I saw you ALSO found the "metal & wood" guys channel. With the "I HAVE THE BEST & ONLY" Chinese chainsaws. He literally video'ed himself pouring seafoam straight into his Stihl 660 tank. I'm pretty sure he posted that yesterday
I am pretty sure there's something with stihl hp ultra în US. Here în Europe these problems with hp ultra they simply dont exist, I cant explain why, but stihl is doing you dirty în US
I gotta say this. I don’t know why, but a lot of people who love to use seafoam (I like it, I use it On Occasion) seem to be baptized in the thought that SMOKE coming out of the exhaust means that you are actively cleaning something inside the combustion chamber or valves or something. Fact: put a few drops of Oil or Transmission Fluid in the carb of Any engine, a BRAND New engine (what is there to “clean”) and you are going to see THE SAME DARN SMOKE!!! Smoke does not mean “cleaning.” Give me a good response and I’ll subscribe And like… Promise.
If you look really close at the exhaust port afterwards there was a decent reduction. Lower left, top center are bare aluminum. Looked like some decent carbon removed from the before and after. I only noticed after watching the video.
So How Many Actual Failures Have You Seen From Stihl Ultra Cause I Can Live With a Little residue on The Piston If There is No Evidence of Engine Failures I’m Not a Believer in This Analysis or Theory
Sthil ultra is by far a waste of money you might as well run used engine oil than that garbage if will shorten the life of your saw engine in exactly the same fashion as ultra. The best way I have found to clean the carbon out of a customer saw is to get them convinced into running shaffer's XP to cycle mix oil I have even gone as far as to giving them a free quart of it which will make 10 gallons of 40 to 1. So far everyone I have given a free bottle has come back offering to pay for it and they buy more and become a permanent customer. People complain about the price but it's really not that expensive especially when you compare it to some of the OEM oils out there. It also comes in a handy 3 oz bottle as well that is set up to make a gallon.
Most pre measured oil is in the $45-60 per quart range. Shouldn't take long to pay for a measuring container. I'm a big fan of Schaeffers oil. I personally run 7000 semi synthetic and always have great results.
Hey @richardflagg3084 you can lead a horse to water…good tips…sorry you also have so many free riders on your channel, it’s really frustrating that people would prefer to watch your efforts, but pay UA-cam and not the person that does the work…even when it costs them nothing to subscribe…If I could get my regular viewers who haven’t subscribed, to subscribe…I’d be able to make a lot more vids and work on saws as a primary income vs having to do another job too…but I guess UA-cam isn’t going to change it when they get so much for nothing…anyhow have a good weekend buddy…keep doing what you love 😎👍
Pretty much every two stroke oil out there being made is now "D" rated and not long ago was "C" rated which by the way was decent oil until these "strato saw's" came along, then everyone had to up their oil game and go to a better grade of oil hence "FD" to give a little more protection. So for Stihl to be messing around with older sub grade rated oils which were all the rage more than 20+ years ago lead's me to believe it's no accident or that they are unaware of what's going on. Yes I know they don't bottle oil themselves but by their direction to who does for them, they are not that ignorant it's a decision they've made on purpose. That decision is have early or premature wear or failure so they can sell more new product plain and simple. The Stihl fan's can say oh no no they would never do that, when corporate greed take's over we all know where that lead's. You probably don't want to touch that one but I have no problem saying it all point's in that direction it seems; anyways I've rambled to long take care.
You're spot on. Stihl reps will tell you if your having this issue "you're not running it right". Any new, non-4Mix, true two stroke will be back in for service in a matter of months for a "no start" issue. The spark arrestor will be clogged. String trimmers, hedgetrimmers and handheld blowers are run in short bursts and never really get run hard. The clogged spark arrestor issue will not be covered by the "double your warranty" pledge of running Ultra. You'll be told you didn't mix the fuel right. Most all shops have a minimum .5hr labor charge of $40-50 so Stihl knows exactly what they're doing.
Yeah it kind of amazes me that Stihl would put out a product; that's their "ultra premium"; that's not even FD rated. I think you're spot on, it's a form of planned obsolescence. Reminds me of a Chickanic video I just watched where she talks about the fact that strimmer gear heads no longer have a greasing nipple. The more stuff breaks the more these companies make unfortunately. Then they'll blame it on you and claim you didn't mix their "excellent" oil correctly
I copped on to the ultra mostly from Richards videos if I'm honest, ultra is rubbish only fb rated, for to keep the epa happy. I went back to stihl hp super its fd rated iso L Egd. Its green as well but a way nicer brighter cleaner green compared to the pond water. I'm not taking any chances with my saw, 45 to 1 ratio with aspen 4 for super long fuel life and engine cleanliness.
@@AnarchAngel1 Don't forget according to manufacture's recommendation's you no longer have to change engine oil in your push mower's or lawn tractor's. Oh and no dip stick to even check your transmission oil level in your vehicle never mind changing it heaven forbid. It's filled and sealed at the factory so you never have to, "Good for life" ya a pretty short one.
@@6900pilot Carful with those long life "engineered" fuel's that's being bantered around these day's they are not all what they claim to be. They have a tendency to burn pretty sooty ie produce a lot of carbon, some don't really want to burn proper but a lot of these fuels actually make most two stroke equipment harder to start or won't run at all with it in the tank. Dump it out and put regular fresh gas with a good mix and they fire right up go figure. There's lot's of video's on UA-cam with quit a few well known UA-camr's doing all kind's of test's on this stuff showing it for what it is; and that is a lot of marketing hype by these company's. Another fun fact a lot of people are not aware of is Stihl's motomix ready to use premix fuel in a can also use's ultra swamp water sorry pond sludge in that crap I know shocker!
I had a MS251 Stihl given to me because the compression was so extreme at cold start that the owner didn't want it anymore. I tried it and he was right, I couldn't believe how hard it was to start it, I'm not joking. I pulled the muffler to have a look inside and just like you, could see carbon and a dark honey colored piston. I did notice that once the saw had warmed up it would start like normal and ran perfect but once it sat overnight it would go back to extreme compression again. I did my research and noticed other people dissing Stihl oil and how much it coated the piston and cylinder so I called the person who gave it to me and low and behold he was using Stihl oil mix since he bought it. I then read about Echo's Red Armor and how it cleans so I bought a gallon of True Fuel (straight gas) and mixed Red Armor into it to achieve a 40:1 mix and ran that saw through a bunch of firewood until the gallon was done and it solved the issue. Now when I pull the muffler there is only a light coating of carbon and the piston is silvery like it should be. Now I have a nice running Stihl.
You never cease to make me laugh 😂 “it should burn it off… *smirks* … it’s not!!”
Amsoil saber and 91 ethanol free for 5 years at 50:1 and no trouble at all. Mufflers are clean Saws start and run perfect every time
love your content! Iam learning quite a bit thank you
I'm new. Love the knowledge you're putting on people.
Pond water saw!!
Nice job Richard!!
Absolutely switched oils to a FD rated oil after the same issues on a ms192t and a ms200t. Haven't the coking issues since. 👍
🍻 Cheers buddy! As I've said before, I bought my 261 new and only used Ultra. My saw doesn't have any of what you showed. It must be your gas! 🤣 Stay safe my friend!
Richard Red armor been working good in my 500i and 661 40:1
Awesome!!!
Muffler on our heavily used FS94R is the opposite. Splooge dripping from the muffler but port and piston are shiny clean. Saber ftw!
Love watching the channel
Been running red armor since I found your channel, run them like I stole them
I just picked up a used MS241C that looks the same way. It is M-Tronic engine management. The guy ran the same swamp water.
I have noticed that most all Mtronic/Autotune saws have that blow by coking on the skirts. Maybe due to the fine tuning by the saw itself. I have run Red Armor at 36:1 since I've had my 261cm, it still has that brownish on the skirts.
Saw runs strong and all, but just reporting my observations. BUT there is very little carbon buildup in the exhaust port. So that is a plus. Saw is ported...
Love these videos Rich. Thanks for doing these for us. 🍻
Same mix I use 👍
I have been running SuperTech in that easy measure container for years. I haven’t had any issues, I run all my saws, blower and string trimmers on the rich side. They all need a load, run them dull or with no string p, they blow up.
Great video! Just subbed! Now I have to check my equipment as I’ve always used Ultra!
I did a video on my channel of my 15 yr old BG-86 always run on 10% ethanol fuel with Ultra oil. Maybe it’s because I use 40-1 but the piston, exhaust port, and cylinder look like new!
I have used sea foam in every two cycle I have owned, plus chevron Techron. There is very little carbon on piston, muffler. This starts the first use of the equipment, including out board two cycle. I put a 40/1 mix of oil.
After a lot of research im covinced the ultra is designed to keep the carbon inside the saw and not release it to the atmosphere, all to keep our environmentaly friendly buddies happy. Great videos Richard for telling and showing us your work and evidence of how crap that pond water really is.
Thanks for doing these videos
Rich nice video and great info.
Thank you!
Hey Richard, youtube canceled me. I just re-subscribed. First video I've seen in a while and you start out with my pond water! 😅😂. Cheers buddy! 🍺
Glad to have ya' back!!
I run a little seafoam in all my 2t a couple times a year. I also don't use stihl oil. Bel-ray or motul.
I run castro 2 cycle oil...have for many years..i have saws that are 50 years old...3 pull cold start
Thank you Richard for telling folks the truth on this issue. I really hope that folks take the time, only a couple minutes, to write an email to Stihl expressing their disgust that in the US we do not have access to a Stihl FD rated 2 stroke oil. Keep on making these videos Richard. You are one of the only people out there staying on this issue. God bless......yee-haaa!
I got fed of of emailing them, they were constantly stating ultra is they're most premium oil, I use stihl hp super is a fd rated oil also green but way better quality, all the proper specs are on the bottle made in Germany unlike the blank ultra bottle without specs. Granted I'm in Europe so I don't know of hp super availability in your country..
Unfortunately, it's not available in the US, which is why this is so aggravating.
@@mikefisc9989 sorry to hear that I wonder why?
@6900pilot. My guess is that this is driven by Stihl trying to meet emission standards of the EPA(Environmental Protection Agency) for their products by using an oil that is mixed at 50:1. The EPA is an agency of our federal government which has regulatory oversight of environmental issues. The equipment runs cleaner at 50:1 from an emissions perspective, but it destroys the equipment more quickly. My guess is that Stihl has found, through testing, that using an FD rated modern 2-stroke oil doesn't allow them to meet these EPA standards. I have no confirmation of any of this, it is simply what I believe may explain Stihl not giving American consumers access to their FD rated 2-stroke oil that is available in all of Europe as well as Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Hence the coking up with ultra, its designed to keep all the carbon inside the saw and not release it into the atmosphere. The stihl hp super is FD rated plus it has a fuel stabilizer and has a high detergent rating for piston cleanliness. I guess all you can do is move to a non stihl fd rated oil instead. There's plenty of good options out there, red armour would be a good option.
I think it would have helped if you had ran the saw hard cutting for a tank after loosening up the carbon with the shock treatment
I have quit using stihl ultra HP oil in my equipment. I now run amsoil saber at a 40:1 mix and I use ethanol free fuel. I also have recommended that my friends and family switch to amsoil saber as I have . Stihl needs to get the oil up to the fd standard. I might consider running it again if they do, but amsoil is a good oil.
I’ve felt conflicted watching the guys carrying it in the store, but not checked out yet, like I should say something. “Sir, Have you found Richard Flagg in your life?”
Hey Richard, like your videos man very educational I like the way you break it down. In your humble opinion. Which I value. Which oil would you run in your saw.
I use Schaeffers 7000 in my personal equipment. Yes, it's an oil intended for water cooled engines, but it does a fine job in an air cooled engine too. I've used it for years. My next favorite is Saber. Both at 40:1.
Motul 800.
I used to work on a lot of outboard motors . Many customers used seafoam in the motors on a regular basis, and the pistons and exhaust ports definately had less carbon than those that didn't use it. To clean up a carboned up motor requires quite a few tanks of fuel to get any real results. This stuff doesn't work in short term use.
My absolute BEST luck using it is to put the piston at TDC and put a splash in the cylinder. Let it sit for a day or two and then run it.
Problem is if you lose a big ole chonk and it gets chewed.
Interesting.@@mattfleming86
Carbon is a lot tougher than most people think. "Harder thank woodpecker lips" comes to mind.
Plenty of people treat seafoam like its a wonder additive because of the smoke. Reality is it will take time to clean out large build ups. If you add a little bit with each mixed tank of gas you will prevent build. Preventative maintenance is always better then reactive.
Haven't tried it in a saw yet but agree, sea foam is good stuff for loosening carbon. Also agree on why try improving a sub-par oil with additives when there are so many far superior oils on the market? And many of which are also cheaper!
Nailed it my friend.
One of the problems with oils that aren't fully synthetic is they use zinc and phosphorus as anti wear additives. These don't burn off completely and zinc for example actually attracts carbon. One of the reasons I switched from semi synthetics to fully synthetic like Saber
Ot supposed to be run real hot . Reckon gotta do it a lot
A lot of folks let their gas cans get hot out in sun, so gas turns to vapor and gas mix gets oil rich. Best to mix small batches for use in a day or so. Keep gas cans in shaded or cool area.
Been running red armor ever since learning about Stihl pond water from this channel, THANK YOU!! Just picked up an ms462cm and wondering if i should go 40:1. What would you recommend? I usually run my saws like I stole them 😮
Red Armor has really good film strength. Probably be fine at like 45:1, that's where I run Red Armor. I run Amsoil Saber in everything else at around 75:1
Absolutely 40:1. These newer models are pretty high strung.
@@richardflagg3084 I stand corrected by a man that's been inside far, far more engines than me 😅 It's just looked to me like that stuff is everywhere even at 50:1. Still like Saber better 😏. Hey Richard if you were to run Saber in your personal saws what ratio would you settle on?
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks Richard, I’ll be adjusting immediately .
@@AnarchAngel1 I've got a couple of customers that run it at 40:1 and the oil film in the crankcase is really nice. It still burns cleaner than anything else at that ratio too. Buying it by the quart saves a bunch of money as well.
Takes awhile for the seafoam to work. I've cleaned up saws with it before. I usually stall them on it and wait a day or two to re start. I'm with you. Use an oil that keeps it clean. If you can get the guy to switch to Red Armor, that saw will be clean in no time. I use Mobil One synthetic high mileage in my stuff. My stuff stays clean and well lubricated. I have been thinking about changing to Red Armor though. Just to change things up a bit. The only drawback is price. I get four applications out of one quart of oil. Saves money.
If you can source it locally, try some Saber. It's about $15 a quart. Red Armor is a great oil, but it's $17ish for a half a quart. I don't understand the logic using 4 stroke oil, but it's your equipment and you can run what you want.
@@richardflagg3084 I didn't either at first. I collect saws, so I go through a lot of fuel. A guy on one of the forums told me about it, and I thought I would give it a try. I had a little wild thing that I had souped up,so I made it my testbed. I ran the snot out of it for months. That was close to twenty years ago. The piston, and cylinder look like brand new to this day. My cousin has it now. I've also cleaned up my old stuff that I use regularly that had God knows what run through them in the past.
@@timothybyrom5560I grew up in the late seventies through the eighties and I’ve torn down quite a few saw engines that were run on the old motor oil mix and they were a lot of the times in really good shape.
@@alanmeyers3957 I think the synthetic part is the magic. Also I use the high mileage. It's got additives that keep the seals pliable.
@@richardflagg3084 I won't use anything amsoil. I've had bad experiences with it. I was watching another of your videos, and I was reminded of the Schaefer oil. I LOVE anything made by them. My old boss is a dealer, so I think my next will be Schaefer. I've been doing the Mobil One thing for about twenty years. It's time for a change. I kinda miss that two cycle smell.
Seafoam might be ok to clean up the combustion chamber but its going to take a long time for it to do anything with the exhaust port. Better to run an FD oil like Red Armor which will eventually clean up the worst of the carbon buildup.
Great video went you got a stihl you got to have sugar in your pocket buddy . 😊
That sea foam is good stuff. But I think it takes regular use to do what it does best.
Carbon is a beech to clean up.
@@richardflagg3084 Yesh 😁
I plan on running amsoil Saber when I use up my ultra, due to your advice. Problem is I have 2 gallons of ultra and I hate to waste money. Do you run 50:1 with amsoil? I have seen so many different mixes on forums out there.
I think running Saber at 50:1 is fine especially in more high strung saws. I run it at that ratio in my newer auto tune Huskies. I run it at around 75-80:1 in some other saws and haven't had any issues. Saber has excellent anti wear additives and part of me feels like running it at 50:1 is a waste but you can be pretty confident your engine is getting properly lubricated at that ratio. Definitely one of the oils I never feel the need to mix any richer than that
@AnarchAngel1 I have modded 461 and modded 661 probably better at 50:1, thanks.
I've been burning small quantities of Ultra off in my lawn mower just to get rid of it. My old 1984 JD 316 burns oil pretty good. I usually add a half a bottle(1-2 oz.) and top off with SAE30 is the easiest way for me to get rid of it.
I picked up my first "real" saw a couple weeks ago. a 261. I trusted that their ultra and 50:1 was the proper way to do things, and I'm a stickler for doing things right, but the more I look into it, I guess their oil is garbage? I've ran a gallon and a half of fuel with it so far. Guess from now on I'll use amsoil saber at 40:1 like I keep seeing people mention?
You'd be hard pressed to find a better oil. I think you'll be enjoying your saw for years to come.
I work in a Stihl shop. We’ve found Stihl Ultra to work better at 42-45:1 on any properly jetted/tuned 2T machine…and run that machine hard. These are performance machines so make them work hard. Yes there are better oils out there, Motul 800 and Motorex are brilliant.
Once it's already a lot of goo seafoam dont really do to much. You need to use it as a preventative kinda.
Our stihl ultra hp is FD rated in New Zealand. FYI
I wish ours was.
what do think is good oil,?
Two stroke engined don’t like to idle, they do much better at full power! I haven’t ever had a problem with Ultra.
I'm from Australia. Our HP ultra is German made. I've never had cokeing on the pistons and the cranks are wet at 40:1 with 95 octane
Not the same product here in the US unfortunately.
@@richardflagg3084 yeah interesting hey! I mean I've used ipone 2t oil when I couldn't get hp ultra and it coked up the pistons like what your seeing. but the HP ultra cleaned the pistons back to brand new after 2-3 tanks Interesting stuff.
What info do you have to say Australian HP ultra is different would like to know.
@@momouppa I checked the Stihl AU and DE site and Ultra is listed as an FB rated oil , but the oil itself is a bright green/ forest green in color. US Ultra is dark olive green. I have no way of being 100% correct that the formulation is the same or different. I swear one of the non-US oils was FC or FD rated, Maybe it was Stihl super hp?
@@richardflagg3084 yeah the super seems to be a better oil. I have since switched to Motul 800 anyway just to be safe
Bagus
My exhaust port is clean as a whistle, but just the ever so slightest damp with oil. Is that good or bad?
That's good.
If you want to clean a 2 stroke engine or keep it clean, run Yamalube Ring Free Plus Fuel Additive from Yamaha. It doesn't get any better than this...period!
Jeden z tych 20% 😎
Run 3.5 oz of Amsoil Sabre and 2.6 oz of Red Armor in 2.35 gallons of ethanol free fuel that will clean it up
If it was a 50s outboard motor, Seafoam might do something. That's what is was made for. There are products for removing carbon. Wire brush, since there's no magic.
is this stuff similar to the subaru upper engine cleaner?
I'm not familiar with the Subaru product.
😂 Richard, you're working on a 261 and I was the 261st person to like this video 😂 I was wondering what your thoughts on Stihl HP Super are?
It's not available here in the US. On paper it looks like a much better oil.
@richardflagg3084 Thanks for replying. Echo Red Armour is impossible to source locally in Northern Ireland and I was ready to switch to it.
I have a question? I respect your opinion alot, so this is why I'm asking. I was bought a Chinese backpack blower as a gift to see if I'd like the backpack blower or hand held blower any way it's an EB650 It's a surprisingly damn good blower I've had it for over a year now with 0 issues, I do however take very good care of my equipment. Any who... It calls for a 25:1 mix which I've been running. What oil in your opinion is the best to use? Do you think Amsoil? And what ratio should I mix if I use said oil? Thank you in advance Richard.
40:1 (of good oil) should be fine in anything.
@@richardflagg3084 Awesome thank you so much!! In my opinion 25:1 is just way to much oil.
I think the Chinese recommend a richer mix is there product goes world wide and can’t control what grade oil is used, plus no EPA.
@@ronaldbrown5745 The older Stihl owners guide used to say 50:1 if using Stihl oil and 25:1 if any other oil. Lol
@@richardflagg3084 So would it hurt for me to use 40:1 True-fuel?
If they improve the oil you'll never need a new saw...i think its as easy as that...
Seems to be a new trend. Don't make it too good, They'll never needs parts or a replacement.
My grandpa uses the same oil an has the problem
Yup!
Hey Richard Flagg
@6:00, the saw finally smokes good! (Joke.)
PLEEEEEASE tell me you just seen this in a recent UA-cam short.
Nope. What am I missing?
@richardflagg3084 I saw you ALSO found the "metal & wood" guys channel. With the "I HAVE THE BEST & ONLY" Chinese chainsaws. He literally video'ed himself pouring seafoam straight into his Stihl 660 tank. I'm pretty sure he posted that yesterday
@@jerseyjoshua4818 He makes my head hurt. Fast talking salesman peddling smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned. 🤡🤡
It had to do something to smoke that much!
A closer look at the exhaust port after I posted, it lifted some from there and the top of the piston.
Sea foam is awsome old school product. Stihl ultra is new school garbage. Thanks for my dose of smiles for the day.
Thank you!!!!!
Soaking with gas will remove carbon. Gotta soak overnight.
I just bought some Seafoam this morning... Weird.
Hah!
Phone surveillance 🤫
People are truly lost and ungodly
I am pretty sure there's something with stihl hp ultra în US. Here în Europe these problems with hp ultra they simply dont exist, I cant explain why, but stihl is doing you dirty în US
Completely different formula. I have no idea why.
I'll tell you why they don't improve their oil... they want you to buy more stihl stuff!
I gotta say this. I don’t know why, but a lot of people who love to use seafoam (I like it, I use it On Occasion) seem to be baptized in the thought that SMOKE coming out of the exhaust means that you are actively cleaning something inside the combustion chamber or valves or something. Fact: put a few drops of Oil or Transmission Fluid in the carb of Any engine, a BRAND New engine (what is there to “clean”) and you are going to see THE SAME DARN SMOKE!!! Smoke does not mean “cleaning.” Give me a good response and I’ll subscribe And like… Promise.
If you look really close at the exhaust port afterwards there was a decent reduction. Lower left, top center are bare aluminum. Looked like some decent carbon removed from the before and after. I only noticed after watching the video.
Amsoil is the best you can get
So How Many Actual Failures Have You Seen From Stihl Ultra Cause I Can Live With a Little residue on The Piston If There is No Evidence of Engine Failures I’m Not a Believer in This Analysis or Theory
Techron or Yamaha Ring Free works better than Seafoam, just saying.
Stihl doubles your warranty when you buy ultra with your new saw because they know you will need the extra coverage when running pond water.
Cleaning pistons rxp no shit use sparingly
Why epuldnt they hit subscribe? That's shady
Sthil ultra is by far a waste of money you might as well run used engine oil than that garbage if will shorten the life of your saw engine in exactly the same fashion as ultra. The best way I have found to clean the carbon out of a customer saw is to get them convinced into running shaffer's XP to cycle mix oil I have even gone as far as to giving them a free quart of it which will make 10 gallons of 40 to 1. So far everyone I have given a free bottle has come back offering to pay for it and they buy more and become a permanent customer. People complain about the price but it's really not that expensive especially when you compare it to some of the OEM oils out there. It also comes in a handy 3 oz bottle as well that is set up to make a gallon.
Most pre measured oil is in the $45-60 per quart range. Shouldn't take long to pay for a measuring container. I'm a big fan of Schaeffers oil. I personally run 7000 semi synthetic and always have great results.
I never have had a problem with stihl oil, but seafoam is a waste of money.
Complete nonsense.... Doesn't matter at all. Good content for UA-cam mechanics I guess... got my view.
Hey @richardflagg3084 you can lead a horse to water…good tips…sorry you also have so many free riders on your channel, it’s really frustrating that people would prefer to watch your efforts, but pay UA-cam and not the person that does the work…even when it costs them nothing to subscribe…If I could get my regular viewers who haven’t subscribed, to subscribe…I’d be able to make a lot more vids and work on saws as a primary income vs having to do another job too…but I guess UA-cam isn’t going to change it when they get so much for nothing…anyhow have a good weekend buddy…keep doing what you love 😎👍
TALK TOO MUCH.JUST SHOW CAUSE AND EFFECT .