How STRONG Was DANGAI ICHIGO? The Man Who CRUSHED Aizen | Bleach Discussion
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
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How powerful is Dangai Ichigo? Is he still the strongest version of Ichigo, and how does his training compare to The Blade is Me from TYBW?
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Beware manga spoilers in this video!
Ichigo has come a long way over the course of Bleach, and now that he has his true Zanpakutō, well, he's pretty strong to say the least.
But what about the original 'strongest' Ichigo - Dangai Ichigo and the Final Getsuga Tenshou? Just how strong was this incredible form, and how does it stack up to today? Also, a discussion on 'Transcendence' in Bleach, plus, why Ichigo's Dangai training was basically 'The Blade is Me' but 150 chapters early!
Enjoy!
Chapters:
Intro - 00:00
Transcendence Discussion - 02:52
How Strong is Dangai Ichigo? - 07:34
Sponsor - 12:10
The Blade is Me Comparisons - 16:28
Final Getsuga Tenshou - 23:14
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How does Dangai Ichigo stack up these days? What similarities are there between the Dangai training and 'The Blade is Me' from TYBW? Let me know all of your thoughts down below!
Based on what u said and my own thoughts on the matter I now believe that True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo is definitely stronger than Dangai Ichigo and let me explain how I arrived at that conclusion. Let's go back to Ichigo training with the fused Tensa Zangetsu and White, if u recall, there's a moment where Ichigo engages in inner monologue with himself as he tries to figure out how to force White Tensa to teach him the final getsuga tensho and in that monologue, Ichigo states that White Tensa was way stronger than him at the beginning of his training and that White Tensa could easily defeat him at any time and even at the end of the training we see that Ichigo didn't defeat White Tensa but instead just accepted that White Tensa is the culmination of all his powers whether he thought they were good or bad so technically, Ichigo still wasn't stronger than White Tensa as we even saw him struggling against him even a few moments before accepting him. Now, if we're assuming that White Tensa is the cap of Ichigo's power at this point in the story then we can also say that, at the time Ichigo emerged from the Dangai to face off against the Transcended Aizen, he was still weaker than White Tensa yet still stronger than Transcended Aizen. Now, in "The Blade is me", it basically just shows that Ichigo has now successfully accessed his full power, its kind of like how Renji only knew half of Zabimaru's true name and even after learning the true name from Ichibei, Renji still had to get strong enough to be able to summon So-Oh Zabimaru at will, in the same sense that Dangai Ichigo was able to use a fraction of True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo's power because he didn't fully know himself and the root of his power but after learning the full story behind how his powers came to be, he was finally able to summon that power at will. That's why I believe that True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo is stronger than Dangai Ichigo but I might be wrong as its just speculation on my part
About Ichibei and Ywach, I feel that the former is so old that the concept of the racial boundaries doesn't really apply to him, even if he became the standard by which Shinigami molded themselves. Ywach is much the same by virtue of being some piece of the Soul King's will incarnate as a person. By virtue of that, he does transcend the rules of this world and probably is on the level of transcended beings. Still, the TYBW as a whole highlights just how porous and arbitrary these so-called boundaries are, even if they are extremely important.
I think Dangai Ichigo is stronger than True Shikai for one simple reason: Ichigo is in Bankai in his fight against Aizen.
Dangai Ichigo is basically Zangetsu trying to give Ichigo True Bankai levels of power but is handicapped by A) not having a real asauchi and B) Ichigo not knowing about his Quincy powers, thus forcing Ichigo to resort to the Final Getsuga and Mugetsu to artificially boost himself further. I do think that Dangai and True Shikai are pretty close in terms of power, though. Horn of Salvation + True Bankai Ichigo is definitely stronger than Dangai Ichigo.
Maybe Kubo made Dangai Ichigo too OP. It makes everybody else in Bleach seem helpless. He stopped Hogyoku Aizen's sword between his fingers. That's probably the most awesome single feat in all of Bleach. It indicated to me that Ichigo was as powerful compared to Aizen as Aizen had been compared to him when they first met. Like Aizen would've needed a development arc of his own just to catch to him.
Finally, someone who can actually interpret what they read. Good work there MrTommo, I agree 100%.
Ichigo, the being with the heart of a human, the soul of a Hollow, the blood of a Quincy and the blade of a Soul Reaper. The God born as a mortal.
Indeed. What makes him such a paragon is that he uses his epic hybrid power to save and protect. Anyone else with such power would go full mad tyrant, trying to prove they have the loudest voice.
@@manuelacosta9463 Yes. Ichigo is a true hero in a world filled with evil and moral ambiguity. It is telling that even after saving the world, he is happy simply living the normal life of a human, and being with his family and friends. Even the likes of Tokinada praised him for this, while condemning the others that represent the Soul Society.
@@jrgenvellesen7800 It was surprising that Tokinada had that opinion, then again even a psychopath of his calibre can recognize something or someone as they are. Notice that contrast between Ichigo and those with whom he has clashed, they all either want to be superior or change things with the most bloodshed while already having everything. Ichigo meanwhile just saves the worlds and returns to his human life. He's a light in the darkness.
@@manuelacosta9463 Indeed. It is telling that nearly everyone Ichigo fights, ends up changing for the better in some sense, from Byakuya becoming a true brother to Rukia, Grimmmjow becoming willing to work alongside Soul Reapers to save the worlds, to even Aizen acknowledging the importance of courage while thinking of Ichigo and how Yhwach's world would lack such a thing. Ichigo truly leaves a impact on so many across the saga.
@@jrgenvellesen7800 Yes. He has a knack for changing others. Even a stalwart like Yamamoto eventually came around to accepting his help. This is someone who kept to the same old script and then, an orange haired lad doing the right thing began to change his perspective. Something tells me that Kisuke and Yoruichi befriended him and his friends because he and they represent a certain innocence that was denied to them from the start, including not being allowed to do the morally right thing.
Dangai ichgio and fullbringer bankai will always be my favorite ichgio design
I liked Ichigo's demeanor in the Dangai form and his blade in the fullbring bankai was sick cause of the protruding spikes on the back of the blade. Every other one of his bankai are just straight blades that as byakuya put it just looked like an ordinary zanpakuto. Which funny enough it was just a black blade lol
FUCKK YEAH!!! Amazing FB has the legit zanpakutou
Fullbring shikai is slept on. It’s my personal favorite design (other than mugetsu)
@@darknesswave100 i really like the whites in the fullbring bankai
The entire Fullbringer Arch was hot garbage that should have never existed
Ichigo came out of the hyperbolic time chamber and tanked everything Aizen threw at him. If Dangai Ichigo is that powerful, the form he takes when he becomes Getsuga must be on a completely different realm of power.
Dangai Ichigo seemed like an unstable temporary power up. Aizen was also evolving further and would have surpassed it if Urahara didn't put him in check with the seal.
@@TheBigExclusivedangai seemed the most stable if anything since from what we saw it was just a highly trained nearly perfected version of his false bankai abilities due to his lack of experience holding him back more than anything.
@TheBigExclusive I think Mugetsu Ichigo was unstable by nature, a version of the character throwing all his power behind a singular attack. Dangai seemed to be pretty stable and, while I think Mugetsu was needed to beat Aizen, I think Dangai was far more powerful than even his monster form. Remember that Aizen thought he rendered Ichigo's arms to be unusable as he was powering up a massive attack, only to be swatted away by that very arm. My thought is that Dangai is right under his true Bankai (maybe being most similar to horn of salvation true shikai), representing a rushed, partial version of what the TYBW provided with his true Bankai. Mugetsu, just by nature of being a singular attack with everything behind it, is likely his most powerful attack and form, but as a single hit. True Bankai is the most powerful, stable form of Ichigo.
Mugetsu is not a form, it's a technique
@@bwill887dangai Ichigo was just Ichigo with a couple of months of intensive training. If he didn’t need to use mugetsu that would have just been Ichigo’s new base form.
Huh, maybe that’s why his true Zanpakuto used his old bankai design as his Shikai… after all the claim of Ichigo lacking Shikai turned out to be a lie, so why shouldn’t his old Bankai be properly named his True Shikai after his Zanpakuto evolved into its true form upon being reforged
I wished by the end ichigo had his dangai hair looked so bad ass
Facts
He was a badass in general while he was in his dangia state
Dangai Ichigo owns. But to think, for all his epic hybrid power it nearly led to him enduring a fate worse than death. The price of power.........
Very Hunter x Hunter
“There are fates worse then death” - some electric god
MUCH MUCH MUCH WORST THAN DEATH DAMN
Wdym? What happens to him? He literally has a happy life in the manga rn 😮
@@J-GUT he’s a soul king candidate. Ichibe plans to shove him in that role to stabilize the all the universes. You know in the anime when he’s walking that path with all the colorful lights… that was meant destroy most people.
There's a theory I've read and support.
The Final Getsuga technique is strictly for the Shiba bloodline.
It gives them the equivalent to Letzt Stil and being a final desperation attack when nothing else works.
Which is why their noble house fell from grace as the number of their powerhouses diminished from making those sacrifices time and again.
Seems sacrifice is the theme of Ichigo's entire family.
Yes i was wondering why other shinigami don't know you can aquire a strength like. I was thinking maybe its a forbidden tech. Then i realise that isshin was the one who said " final getsuga tensho" and since he can also perform the same attack maybe it was related to the shiba clan.
The theory that they fall disgraced may be because of that kind of jutsu.
@@maroon1ibnouali400
It's funny to consider that had Kaien Shiba not lost both his Nejibana and life to Metastacia that he could've learned the Final Getsuga as well.
Also now that I think of it Byakuya was surprised when facing Ichigo that Ichigo had a "black Getsuga" when Zangetsu (Hollow Ichigo/White) took over and used the technique. Byakuya being part of another noble family might have known the technique and was taken back when a common human turned substitute Shinigami could use such a technique.
@@godknightomega i think the noble families didn't know all the techniques that other families use. But i was wondering maybe the kukaku shiba lose its arm because she fused partially with her zanpakuto. Or maybe its a coincidence
Thank you, this is something I could bounce a personal theory of mine. Perhaps the upper limit of shinigami was to fuse with their zanpakuto but no successful cases occurred. The form could’ve been so powerful that the user’s life is at risk but old man zangetsu was using his powers to hold ichigo together and that is why ichigo was more toned down during his fight with Aizen. Seeing your theory, I want to build on mine by saying that as one of the noble houses the final getsuga was developed to break the barrier between realms to reach soul king level but when the other houses found out they were outcast and the technique forbidden. Records could’ve also been destroyed so that by the time of Isshin, he was working on conjecture and hearsay, believing ichigo’s bloodline might allow for the technique’s success. (Using my phone so sorry if comment didn’t turn out right)
@@creativeboundaries126
I doubt the Final Getsuga was a forbidden technique made for breaking the barrier between realms and reaching Soul King level.
I think it's a do or die technique that led to the decline of the Shiba noble house as more and more members made the ultimate sacrifice of their powers.
Isshin being a captain and a member of the noble family probably had knowledge readily available and he himself knows that the Zanpaktos despise it. As Isshin warned Ichigo Zangetsu would fight tooth and nail to not teach Ichigo the technique as Engetsu did with him.
I think I've mentioned this before, but the most apt metaphor for Ichigo's 'Dangai' state is like Gon's transformation from HxH; an unnaturally forced evolution that gives the user significantly enhanced strength well beyond their natural limits, at the cost of sacrificing all the power they would ever have. The 'form' was an unnatural branch of Ichigo's development, and cannot be considered a natural part of his progression towards the Horn of Salvation (like the changing patterns of his Hollow Mask).
Secondly, the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu's retroactive revelation that he had been restricting Ichigo's true power seems like it can't simply be applied as a blanket statement to every one of Ichigo's past battles, as there were clearly select moments where White took control and unleashed Ichigo's full potential (against Byakuya/Ulquiorra). It is simply a more nuanced situation than saying Ichigo was "always" fighting with a small portion of his power.
Finally, the fact that the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu merged with White and passed on all of Zangetsu's power along with the secret of the Final Getsuga Tensho technique through their blade would seem to indicate that, in that moment, he gave Ichigo access to ALL of his latent power, and not merely the fragment of it he had been wielding up to that point.
The entire reason that the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu was suppressing Ichigo's true power was because he wanted to keep Ichigo out of harm's way and prevent him from becoming a Shinigami. Therefore, it would make sense to me that he would have no reason to suppress Dangai Ichigo's true power since the fate of using the Final Getsuga Tensho would mean that Ichigo would loose all of his powers anyways; thus fulfilling both of the Old Man's wishes.
Great explanation and reasoning, I've always been under the same impression.
Just normal Dangai Ichigo wouldn't be like Gon's adult form. Ichigo would still retain his powers after the Dangai training if he didn't use the Final Getsuga Tenshou.
The power Zangetsu told he sealed might be some reiatsu and abilities , because Ichigo even after gaining all the power is still weaker than pre almighty Yhwach who is weaker than Bankai Yama who himsepf is weajer than transcendant Aizen.
Man tomo forgot the fullbring being a part of white, and then he says that the fullbringers are underrated lmao, but I guess this is a little mistake.
Also his form of salvation is basically dangai ichigo but here it was incomplete.
@@89ludeawakening1 similar to gon as in artificially enhanced
Ngl AIZEN is my favorite character but dangai Ichigo just completely dogwalked him 😭🤧
It's crazy how incorrect that statement actually is
@@aloox395 can you explain?
@@aloox395 ? Aizen got stomped
Ichigo's power was temporary. He wasn't able to beat Aizen. Only reason Aizen was defeated bcz of Urahara's Kido. So if the fight went on ichigo would have lost the next moment. Temporary dogwalked him is the right statement.
@@JaheedHasan-os7xv Sure AIZEN would have won the fight it's simple facts. But dangai did him dirty
Honestly, the problem is we do not see much from Bankai Ichigo after the blade is me.
i'm hoping we get an actual bankai ability for cour 4. something like fate negation would work perfectly to counter yhwach
@@bynosaurus4024 I honestly want to see from Yhwach's perspective the fight he foresaw and decided that he needed to destroy Ichigo's bankai.
@@RFDN0that would be so awesome but really just literally anything would do 😂
his hollow powers might block a full release
@@FGame2starhis Hollow powers ARE part of him. They wouldn’t block anything.
Can we appreciate how Ichigo fought 3 months tensa zangetsu
To be fair it's not like they were trying to kill him the whole time. Which always was weird to me that they said they were going to but that would mean Zangetsu/tensa Zangetsu would disappear also
@@darknesswave100because he wasn't being truthful. He never had any intention of killing ichigo. He wanted him to give up
@@bluemoon1716 Tensa Zangetsu wanted to stop Ichigo from going on a suicide mission to stop Aizen so in turn, Tensa Zangetsu teaches Ichigo the Final Getsugatensho thus the whole 3 month fight. The whole point of that fight was to have Ichigo take in Zangetsu himself, not to have Ichigo give up
@@IfritBoi not entirely. His first priority was to always keep ichigo from battle. He even says so himself if you watch tybw. Even ichigo's dad said that engetsu didn't want him to learn the final getsuga tensho . Old man zangetsu doesn't want ichigo to learn it.
Mugetsu Ichigo is still my favorite form of Ichigo by far. Putting everything on the line granting him the ability to cut through seemingly time and space for a brief moment. One of the moments in the original anime which has truly stood the test of time. All sound fades out and only black remains in the wake of this beast. Its phenomal. Peak. It is right there with Gear 5 and KCM Mode.
Well said sir, couldn’t have said it any better! Pure peakness
Gear 5? XD
@@kevintanza6968one peice
I'm still a firm believer Dangai was his peak. True Bankai/HoS just doesn't have enough screentime. Hopefully we get some feats via the anime.
No way. Dangai Ichigo was close, but ultimately True Shikai Ichigo was close to it and True Bankai Ichigo was also way above that for the reasons highlighted in the video. I have a feeling he could use the final Getsuga Tenshou again, and when he does, that multiplier will make him truly the strongest being to have ever existed in Bleach's universe.
@@MrGksarathy That's shit scaling people do. Dangai/Mugetsu Clears. Doesn't mean is enough to top Ywach.
@@SilenceRed Nah, Mugetsu is just a multiplier of where Ichigo was at, and it doesn't hold a candle to his true Bankai form. If he did it again, that would be a different story.
@@SilenceRed Yhwach already acknowledged ichigo has regained dangai power and then surpassed it during their first fight at the soul palace in Chapter 619. I am not sure why people still think Dangai is stronger simply because it got more screen time demolishing Aizen who at the time is considerably weaker than SK almighty Yhwach.
@@HoshinoMirai cause the bleach fandom just like whatever looks cool and ignore the manga lore
I don't think it matters what Blade Ichigo was using since a Zanpaktu merely just a projection.
This is why I think Mugetsu is the strongest form, because he is now the weapon itself. No longer manifesting some extention to use that power.
I have a theory about why Ichigo uses the "fake" Tensa Zangetsu after Dangai. That is because he is "used" to this Blade and since "he is the blade", it doesn't matter what physical form it takes. His "True" Bankai can actually back this up, as it turns out that inside that big Sword was actually his original, or "fake" Shikai. And Kubo confirms in a Klub Outside question that Ichigo can use either The dual swords or the "fake" sword and change between them. Hell, we even see him using the "fake" it in the hell oneshot!
So my guess is that the Sword Ichigo uses after Dangai is not his Bankai, nor Shikai... maybe, at this point, since the blade fused with his arm, the concept of Shikai and Bankai means nothing, and Ichigo is just at 100% at all times now, and the blades shape is the one which used for so long and got used to. After all, the weapon on his arm is different, the crossguard being much bigger and looking more "rough". I guess that after Ichigo released his "true" Bankai, he is now actually able to use whatever form he desires for his sword, be it Shikai, Bankai, Dual wielding, single Zweihänder or a dingy Katana. The sword does not contain his power, it is just an extension of himself and he uses it however the situation calls for.
Right on time for me to listen to this while falling asleep, thank you mr tommo! ❤️
Keep up the good job man, your content is so relaxind and awsome to watch. Lovin it!!
Always a good day when tommo post
Thanks for the god tier content as always Tommo! Hope you’re well bro!!
I still firmly believe dangai ichigo an muggetsu are some of his strongest forms
1. True Bankai + Horn of Salvation
2. Mugetsu
3. Dangai / True Shikai
4. Vasto Lorde
5. Fullbringer Bankai
Mugetsu It's not a form is a technique.
@@felipez3115 it's both, it's is a technique that changes the form of the wielder into an embodiment of their blade at the risk of losing all of the power gained. it's like Bankai, where it is both.
@@dragunkodpretty sure the form is the final getsuga tensho but mugetsu is the technique/attack he uses.
@@donjulio1033 I always thought it was the same since his sword turns into pure riatsu, because he says something like "this is the final getsuga" then turns into it, but then says mugetsu. So it's hard to tell if it was just the attack or the whole thing transformation and attack. So if something says it's two different things I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. But for my own view, most of the attacks are also the names of the form/thing that they are.
This fight confirmed two things. One is when you achieve transcendence your hair grows and second blade fuses into arm
I think of ichigo as a triangle, each corner is a piece of power. hollow, quincy, soul reaper. each corner can extend. this dangai form is just the full extension of that power.
no, it still a fragment of his true power
@@User5hdbh that's literally what i said. go back
@@benjiago6800this is hilarious because this what I said when I read his comment 🤣🤣
Nothing against True Shikai Ichigo but Dangai hands down is my fave look. That and his old Bankai after the Xcution arc.
I have always thought of Dangai Ichigo as a “trial”.
If EoS Ichigo is the peak of his power, when he accepted all of it, then Dangai will be the trial of that power, the test run we could say. Granted to him by artificially and indirectly accepting his powers back then. He doesn’t fully know how to use his powers, but they are the same as after “the blade is me”. That could explain why the Final Getsuga backfires that way, because he is not supposed to have that kind of power, or at least not acquire them that way.
Notice how when Ichigo uses his Hollow powers after the events of “the blade is me” (further in the manga), he gains a look that is almost the same as White Tensa: one horn and one black eye.
Drip = power level
Dangai ichigo drip > TYBW Ichigo drip
Therefore dangai ichigo is the strongest.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk
The G.O.A.T of Bleach content creators has dropped a video.🗿🤝
Jesus! That panda stood no chance! She just went directly Bankai on him!
Dangai Ichigo is my favorite form of his by far. The long hair, his arm merging with his sword and the chain was just so cool.
Pretty sure he’d defeat the yhwach that killed Yama too
Dangai/Mugetsu Ichigo is = to True Shikai Ichigo btw so definitely
he was definitely at pre almighty yhwh level but he could still reclaim the shrifts and win.
@@roywempor8395 Hes above that
@@issactbh nah
almighty yhwh = bankai horn.
true shikai is mugetsu level.
base yhwh is dangai level and equal to Ichigo's base after soul king training.
and fullbring bankai who lost to base yhwh is below all that.
@@roywempor8395 Mugetsu = True Shikai. Allmighty Yuha isn't who Bankai HOS is equal too, Hes equal to SOULKING Allmighty Yuha.
Here's a thought: Ichigo's "false" Zanpukto is actually an arancar style Zanpukto.
It manifests in response to his drawing out his Shinigami/Hollow powers for the first time. Just as Aizen's blade fuses with him after he gains hollow power, Ichigo's works the same. Note, arancar fuse with their Zanpukto when they undergo ressurecion. Second note, remember Ulquorra's Segunda Etapa? How he became wrapped in and exuded a dark black reitsu? Mugetsu is Ichigo's Segunda Etapa.
That also explains his bankai not being stolen. Urahara/Mayuri suggest an Arancar's ressurecion should be functionally the same as a Bankai, turns out so is a Vaizard's. Plus, it makes sense why the blade envelopes him in a cloak, why Getsuga Tensho functions according to the same mechanics as cero, and why his false bankai essentially just wraps him in his power. It operates according to the rules of an Arancar Zanpukto
duh
people mistakenly say hes 24 races
hes half arrancar and half quincy
hes not human, shinigami nor hollow.
his mom is a quincy and the power from his dad went to white, who then nerged with her egg.
in other words, Ichigo's real dad is the white hollow.
The one thing that really pokes a hole in things though; is during the battle with Aizen, they talk about when spirit energy is so high it can't be sensed. Only people with equally as high or higher energy can sense that higher tier. Dangai Ichigo, Aizen can't sense Ichigo, but after the Blade is Me when Ichigo comes down from the Royal Palace, people sense his energy. In that case I feel like Dangai Ichigo would be higher than base Ichigo post the Blade is Me
People can still sense Aizen's spiritual pressure as well in the TYBW, even though he is a post-transcendent being. Clearly, this is fuzzier than we know, and maybe transcendent beings can adjust their reiatsu to be detectable by weaker beings.
@@MrGksarathyAizen DOES explain that he intentionally adjusted his spiritual pressure to have it be felt, so yes.
@@DBZCinema2KHD Exactly, he literally explains that the only way he can be sensed is if he purposefully lowers his spiritual pressure so others can sense him.
@@MrGksarathy There's really scant evidence that TYBW Aizen is actually stronger, from a reiatsu perspective, than monster-god Aizen. For one Unmasked says monster Aizen is a form that is beyond that of a god, and the only confirmed gods in Bleach are Yhwach and the Soul King. And in TYBW Urahara bases his observation on Aizen's use of Hado 90 Kurohitsugi, which only Butterflyzen used, not monster Aizen, who completely abandoned all of his shinigami techniques and abilities in favor of raw energy projection. Even then Urahara only says chair Aizen MIGHT have become stronger, it's not a confident guess. And the last thing is that in the post chapter Kubo sketch from the TYBW chapter Urahara makes that observation is a depiction of Butterfly Aizen, not monster Aizen.
@@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262 Even if he doesn't have the raw reiatsu of monster Aizen, he's definitely stronger by virtue of his expert control over it. Personally, holding back the Soul King's overflowing reiryoku to me puts him above monster Aizen because I think the latter would have struggled to do it, or at least as neatly.
And this all gets trivialized when Yhwach goes, "How about 'no'?"
I like the thumbnail you made!
This is one of my favorite topics in Bleach
Definitely the best version of Ichigo hands down
The way Dangai Ichigo kept his composure for the entirety of the Aizen fight was just iconic 🔥🔥🔥
Final Zanpakuto was Uryu's Quincy Glove but for Soul Reapers. There is little point to use it by the end of the series barring Mugetsu.
Your videos butter My biscuits thank you
I always liked the idea of Ichigo's Mugetsu form being the result of a similar situation to Gon's adult form from HxH. For the cost of making a restrictive pact and/or sacrificing your powers (nen in HxH), you can access your (theoretical) peak potential for a brief period of time. For Gon, the cost would be death (as nen is the expression of a character's life force), and for Ichigo, this would be the loss of his powers.
Ichigo is easily my fav anime protagonist. I can’t get enough of him
My personal opinion about Dangai Ichigo has always been that to both power him up quickly and as a ploy to take Ichigo away from the battlefield, his quincy part added the Quincy Letzt Stil into the mix.
TOMMO!!! You should do a video defining who all you think can be considered transcendent in bleach!! That would be awesome!!
In the intent of becoming transcendant....aizen forgot the'' quincy'' in the équation that what he loose
i think the fact that aizen can-t sense dangai let alone mugetsu speaks volumes, i think dangai is on another plane of power compared to shikai from tybw
I agree
I was thinking about this as well, and I think it makes sense that Aizen can’t sense ichigos spirit pressure in dangai. If soul reaper,hollow, and quincy powers separately are dimension 1, a combo of two of them is dimension ‘2’, which dimension 1 can’t sense, then it would be reasonable for ichigo being a combination of all 3 to be in dimension ‘3’, which aizen wouldnt be able to sense since he was only dimension ‘2’.
@@tristanwright6293Fair point. Off topic I love the blade - blade aura in the post dangi - form .
wrong
yhwh said that his true shikai was equal to mugetsu.
damn, good job man
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Still the most broken Ichigo out of all forms.
I still think Dangai is far stronger than anything we have seen from him yet. Like completely on a different lvl. The only character that could fight him at all was still unable to even sense how strong he was, and lost in terms of power. The difference in Ichigo's power really after his training in the palace really has not been shown well in the manga or the anime. The gals we saw him fight right after he came back he could have defeated beforehand pretty easily without whatever that boost gave him. He was so much stronger than the other Captains that fought them when the arc started. Ultimately he fairs equally as poorly vs Yuha with his new power as he did before his Bankai was broken.
Something to consider: Perhaps Tensa Zangetsu being wrapped around Ichigo's arm wasn't the normal state of his bankai, but rather a precursor to using Mugetsu that was activated by Ichigo - like the way his Shikai's white cloth wraps around his arm right before Bankai is actually activated. Perhaps from the moment Ichigo emerged from Dangai he intended to used the FGT, and so went into this mode where the chain extended around his arm in preparation. The black cloth wrapped around his wrist and his hilt looks the same as the cloth he is wrapped in when he takes on the Mugetsu form.
I love how the fusion between the two is literally what ichigos true bankai form looks like
I love the fact that ichigo true bankai looks similar to tensa zangetsu hollow fusion during dangai arc. The horn and hollow eyes on his right side, and his clear face on left side. Really wish that if we see him again in this form if we ever see him again.
Imagine if he used Mugetsu in his current state with his full power, he could probably seal Hell by himself in seconds.
I been lacking my b love the videos as always homie!! Had a seizure so I’ve been off the phone lacking my b ( I’m sure bro ain’t trippin but I be feeling bad ) GREAT VIDEO THOUGH LEGEND; HOPE YOU’RE WELL HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO YOUR MOM. ( anyone’s mother actually if ya see this ) & honestly ANYONE ELSE SEEING THIS I HOPE YOU’RE WELL HAVE A GREAT DAY ‼️
BLESS YALL 🩶
I get having sponsors, but four and a half fucking minutes is CRIMINAL.
“Transcendence” *panics in BBS ptsd*
I think this goes as the same as Vegitto and Gogeta in DB, years of discussion in the fandom about who was stronger, although they were different fusions of the same guys, Goku and Vegeta, until Toriyama stated they are equally powerful.
Here yes, probably fusing with your zanpakuto is the definitive stage, and the Final Getsuga Tensho (Shiba clan secret trumpcard?) is a forced way to merge with it, in order to get a temporaly PU but at huge price (this really fits Shiba self sacrifice nature). Ichigo of course was a special case, being a soul project of every race, and with that training, as you said too, he fully exploited all his powers (quincy, hollow, shinigami), that's why he reached an even higher level of trascendental Aizen. Basically he did the same in TYBW, just with a different process, more natural and stable, without costs.
That said, Dangai and Mugetsu feats still seems better to me, but at the same time we have to say that the end of TYBW was rushed and Ichigo went all out only against Soul King Yhwach, who was clearly on another level. Let's see in the anime.
To conclude, one question. Maybe I remember it wrong but wasn't there a passage in the novels (CFYOW?) where Ichibei, I think, talked about Ichigo and Aizen's defeat, stating he was at Soul King level at time? I will take reread, but I recall something like that.
I don't know what you mean with the first part it was stated out right that potara fusion was stronger than the fusion dance
@@procow2274 I don't care about DB, but I recall it was in the promotional material for Broly movie where he made that statement.
What do you think would have happened if ichigo learned of his quincy heritage during his dangai training. Like it was all about connecting with himself and his zanpakto. During ot he seemingly also got over his fear of his hollow inside him.
so what if, zangetsu, recognizing his growth and maturity, and realizing the strength hed need to beat aizen taught him about his quincy heritage? It could have still been an emotional moment, using the powers of both his dad and mom to fight aizen, the guy with the twisted plan that resulted in white in the first place. Even if zangetsu was scared of ichigo understanding his full power that could have very well been his last fight and hed loose his powers regardless
would his dangai form have been different? like closer to his tybw bankai? cus the quincy side would have had to fuse with tensa zangetsu and would probably change the forms apparanxe somewhat
Aizen got Kendrick Lamar'd by a teenager. 💀
I think Mugetsu is an early insight to Ichigo's true potential to merge with his form, and that the final getsuga is his family's ability to reach peak ability by becoming one with their blade at the cost of their life/ spiritual energy. Meaning that as soul reapers, their ideal peak would to be one with their zanpakuto, and the family ability of the Shiba clan would have been to become one with their blade at the expense of their life/spiritual energy. So Ichigo's bankai is on equal terms to Mugetsu in final form. I believe that what we see in Aizens fight with Ichigo is a glimpse into the true power that they both have at the end of series.
Mugetsu is still way beyond True Bankai. It's an all out attack of which the user supposedly loses his powers permanently, which means said user must've taken every instance of him from the future into the attack in the present. Kinda like Ichibei's Bankai stealing the black of 100 nights in the future for his move.
@@1erickf50 I think end series Ichigo's energy levels are much higher than dangai Ichigo's, as he was powerful enough to carry the weight of the 3 worlds. Even Aizen at this point in the arc wasn't powerful enough to do so, or even viewed as a threat by the zero squad. Aizen has powered up significantly while stuck in Muken.
Mugetsu is dumping a swimming pool of water at once, true bankai is a water hydrant. One is all power no control, the other is controlled release with greater levels of reserves
Outside of Yhwach shenaningans, I'm pretty sure Mugetsu is still the strongest attack in the entire series.
4 min ad burned into the video still long ..
But its still quality content ^^
Dangai Ichigo was so powerful that transcended Aizen couldn’t even read his spiritual pressure.
I feel like it’s pretty much impossible to measure that kind of power.
He already couldn’t read Ichigo’s spiritual pressure, so that proves nothing
yhwach
The reason why Azien couldn’t feel Ichigo’s reiatsu is for the same reason that most humans can perceive souls and why souls can’t feel reiatsu. They lacked the sufficient reiatsu. Spirituality powerful beings sense Spiritual beings through their Spiritual pressure if something’s Spiritual pressure is too great it interferes with their Spiritual awareness. Which is why when the captains became stronger they were able to sense Azien Reiatsu which had become even greater.
Ichigo after having his power restored doesn’t seem to be any weaker than when he fought Azien. Kubo had also confirmed that Ichigo could use The Final Getsuga Tenshou after using it against Azien.
@@RickyUzumaki993you mean pre dangai? But literally one of the first things he says to ichigo when him and isshin get back is that he can no longer sense any spiritual pressure from him, key being no longer. Soo not true
@@cryptic_beatz2127
I meant pre-Mugetsu
Giving it some thought, I think Dangai and True Zanpakuto Ichigo are two sides of the same coin, both draw on his full breath of power but they do it in different ways, one being The Shinigami way of drawing on the powers seperatly and the Quincy way of drawing on a fused power.
The Real difference, and what I would say the thing that pulls 'Quincy Method' ahead of 'True Shinigami' is the simple fact Ichigo spent 3 month getting his arse handed to him by the Fused Tensa Zangetsu.
Think about the times Ichigo has been trained in the series, they ususally last at most a few days to a week and most are focused to learn/master a single techique or ability.
But in the Dangai... the growth from that constant struggle...
I would also add from the anime filler where the zanpakto have come alive as separate beings (also best filler arc in anime history) white tells ichigo while fighting zangestu that he will only help ichigo as long as ichigo does not wear his mask thus showing the connection of white being a true part of ichigo and whole separate blade in of himself
I still think that dangai ichigo is thae strongest version of him.
Dangai ichigo to me is pretty similar to what gon did in HxH, both made a conscious deal to gain not only power, but all their future potential for a brief time, and a great price. I like to believe Dangai ichigo is stronger than base current ichigo, but if he were to do this again, if possible, it would reach heights never imagined before.
The Final Getsuga is awfully like Lezt Stil, to the point that he loses his powers and like Uryu regains them later with the help of the others.
"I'm not sure I really answered any of my own questions, to be honest."
My favorite kind of video.
I think that Dangai Ichigo was more powerful than true Shikai Ichigo simply because he had reached the evolved state of the Zanpakuto and, even if he didn't know it, had all 3 of his powers fused into one single entity, unlike his true Shikai, which still separates them into two swords. Like you said in the video, he also had no reason to be limited in power by his Quincy side. I'm honestly not a fan of the two swords aspect of Ichigo's true Shikai because it undermines the point of unifying the 3 powers. It's hard to say whether he was more powerful than with his true Bankai, but his true Bankai was still not fused with his person. It's also worth asking whether the presence of an asauchi matters for power scaling if the sword is literally fused with the body of the wielder, since the blade and him are the same thing, after all. Having the sword fused with his arm seems to be a truer form of the Zanpakuto based on the unity of Shinigami and Zanpakuto spirit than his post-asauchi Bankai. It also looks cooler than his true Bankai and that is about 90% of my real argument. In reality, Kubo probably didn't think that far ahead when considering the Zanpakuto designs. From a narrative perspective, it also makes sense that Dangai Ichigo was the most powerful since he was 1v1ing a transcendent being and it came with the price of "permanently" losing his powers. If he had continued increasing in power from that point, the series would have gotten a bit ridiculous with the power scaling and set pieces. Kubo was smart to drop him down in power for the rest of the series so they didn't end up demolishing entire planets by the time TYBW was over, just meteors.
They can destroy but narrative wise wont feat the story
Note that the Dual-Swords is not the end all-be all form of Ichigo's zanpakuto post war, he can change its form at will and it can look like regular old Zangetsu, as it was in the bonus chapter. I think that powerscaling wise, what the asauchi gives him is an actual Bankai ability, compared to his "non-existant" speed one that he had for most of the series. An ability that even Yuha decided it shouldn't be messed with.
The way I have always viewed it was that this relationship was the usual anime trope of berserk mode versus controlled mode. Some dark or risky power that is triggered by explosive emotion that is insanely powerful but poses some major drawback, like loss of control or damaging after-effects, or both, versus later in the story when the character has learned to hone and control that berserk form to gain its benefits with no or fewer drawbacks.
So, simply put, Dangai Ichigo is a berserk form. It is a ludicrously powerful form that has a massive drawback that the character calls upon earlier in the story by accident, forceful shortcuts, etc. And late-stage Ichigo is just that berserk form, but now controlled for more reliable use, meaning he can use the berserk-tier power without the drawbacks. As this relates to the zanpakuto itself, Ichigo HAS to resort to the berserk mode to forcefully tap into those powers since he is fighting with a false blade. However, once he has his true blade, that limitation is removed and he can access that power without alternative methods.
To see another example of this, loads of Japanese media use this trope, but I will use Naruto for reference since it is well-known. Early in the series, Naruto calls upon the ninetails chakra by force through intense anger. This leads him to gaining the red chakra cloak, then multiple tails and semi-transformation against Orochimaru,, then partial transformation against Pain. These are all different tiers of a berserk form where the more power he uses, the more it damages him afterward and the more likely he is to be taken over completely. This is him gaining power through an incomplete, "impure" method, where he is letting the ninetails consume him as a faustian bargain. Later on, though, he befriends the ninetails so that the beast willingly offers up his chakra, mixing Naruto's and the ninetails' more naturally, and creating an incredibly powerful form that (maybe) isn't quiiiite as overtly powerful as a full berserk transformation, but allows him absolute control over the form with no drawbacks.
I feel like in order for him to use the same level of power we saw him use versus transcended Aizen . We would’ve seen it once he release his Bankai. Which is why once he released it versus Yaha ,Yaha immediately broke the blade. Because he knew he wouldn’t be able to contend with Ichigo. So his only option was to keep trying to shatter the blade and stop him from using it.
I think the transcendent being idea was just aizens way of describing a ceiling to the power of a shinigami. A ceiling that he feels is put on him by Raio. It's just power level. If being 3 dimension meant just being above 2 dimension he wouldn't have made a being to counter Yamamoto. And urahara even says the hogyoko would have made Aizen stronger after final getsugatensho, it's why the seal was needed at all.
Kubo has built these characters to show they can be strong without understanding themselves, being bonded with their zanpoktou. And that even when they are bonded with them, they can be surpassed by another. But you cannot reach your fullest potential without bonding with your zanpaktou, understanding and accepting who you are.
I always had the impression that the when he transformed into Getsuga he released all of his outer power and protection as preparation for the attack and the moment he formed the black blade it contained all of his power. Getsuga has no physical blade and no shihakusho, he's basically stripped down, all of his spiritual pressure freed, ready for a singular use.
During the Dangai training, Zangetsu appears in different forms. Yhwach in his young form is Tensa Zangetsu, but White with the horned mask should also be refered as Tensa Zangetsu. So way back then we got to see the bankai form of Ichigo's Zangetsu. And when they megre that is the true Tensa Zangetsu. That is why the horn of salvation bankai form is so similar to the form Ichigo trained with during the Dangai training.
I'm convinced that Mugetsu is Ichigo's Letzt Stil, same thing happened to Uryu when he used his...
and next gonna watch that fight
that face grab is a neat black clover reference some may say
I wanna see ichigo get his quincy powers back and use them in the hell arc, that would be dope
I see Mugetsu as the %100 full power of a soul reaper. Past beyond banki the sword and its wielder become the weapon/attack of that individual.
Whats crazy is that we saw ichigos true bankia before we even got his true shikia
I love the British accent of Mrs. Tommo. ❤
Dangai Ichigo is an absolute calamity of a power scale.
Can you do a „how strong was white?“ next please? Very fascinated by Aizens creation and honestly I wonder how strong the original was. Probably not captain level since Aizen had to intervene. But compared to a vasto lorde..?
Isn't the Soul King the source of Fullbringers?
I wouldn't be surprised if at least Ichibe was also something like a Fullbringer, and it's his source of power over Names.
In Hybrids, the Fullbringer portion appears to augment what's already there, Bring out the Full potential.
Either that or their just channels for Reio's Reiatsu, perhaps in a way similar to the Seal on Squad Zero's Blood-Seal of their Bankai.
I think the concept of transcendence is separate from not being to sense someone's reiatsu - the latter can happen with a single power type being and is dependent only on the strength of that reiatsu. Aizen could lower his own enough so it'd be detectable by mere humans and Kenpachi couldn't be sensed by his own men during his fight with Gremmy, despite not being transcendent like Aizen. The analogy to 2D and 3D beings here is quite adequate - if a bird lands on a windowsill, the 2d surface of the sill will meet with the bird's feet, but if the bird willingly takes off, the 2d surface of the sill has no way of forcing an interaction. But these "dimensions" aren't about breaking the boundaries between different types of spiritual beings (the Visored could easily be sensed, for example) - it's merely about the strength of one's reiatsu.
If Ichigo died and was brought back as a soul/shinigami, do you think he could attain a new or retain his former shinigami powers that he lost before the last 2 archs?
Lets not forget his dad kept the dangai open for those three months. Thats crazy power
Dangai Ichigo had done 3 months continuous training before learning Final GetsugaTensho. I think that 3 month training also which makes a big difference when compared with royal palace episode.
Unfortunately that was done in Dangai, so it got reversed. Perhaps that reversal was inevitable or maybe auppressed because of massive power of Ichigo. If reversal was suppressed because of his massive power, then his reversal became possible after he did Final Getsuga Tensho.
one thing that I feel Like Dangai Ichigo is, is what Byakuya says during his fight with Ichigo during the Souls Society Ark
It takes years to achieve bankai, and even more such as 10 years to master it
Ichigo after achieving his false bankai never truly trained with it for a long time which was evident with how his body was breaking down and became slower during his fight with Byakuya
Dangai is Ichigo with 3 months of trainibg with his bankai along with being able to use more of all his powers
I always felt dangai ichigo and his true bankai are similar power levels, it is just once he learns everything in TYBW and has his true zanpakuto he is able to access and use his full power without "burning it up" and losing it.
ok, so from reading/watching bleach what we know as dangai ichigo he was there to take out aizen, but one could state that ichigo didnt need to use the final getsuga to beat aizen, This part can be true but through out the fight aizen was developing too quickly and had to be put down fast, When ichigo learns of his origin ywach(ichigo) never wanted to help ichigo but keeps him alive as he falls, white on the other hand always had ichigos back,
Note I was told this wild theory and the reason why white came out was because ichigo lost conscious for a bit and if we went off the storyline where when its day ywach was at full power but at night he loses his power if the same reason is applied when ichigo is awake ywach(ichigo) is in control and supressing his powers while when ichigo is asleep(fallen) white has his powers hence why white is a monster until ichigo wakes up as the suppression side kicks in from ywach but its a fun theory how accurate it could be I dunno but if ichigo asleep is full power it'd make alot of sense.
It is also stated if a zanpoktou is broken in bankai it loses like 1/2 of its true power, But ichigo running around with a false bankai and it snapped did he really lose power as his was an armour type bankai as in he wears his power to fight which puts into question his power output since he just launches his own power while under the impression of being in bankai, more so just taking on the appearance of ywach(ichigo) for what his bankai would look like, up in the air for me there.
As for when ichigo learns of his origin he knows that both of his powers are there for him which gives him some peace of mind and he can do more since he didnt wanna discard any of the powers that brought them to that point, As he only learned of his quincy line and had an engrained tech it can be stated he could learn and adapt more, as for his bankai during the merge state for the horn of salvation we didnt see his bankai but one of the requirements was for him to put both swords into one and to draw the sword from the scabbard, Ywach did not like what his bankai could do so he broke his swords before using his bankai so safe to say dangai ichigo was powerful for what he needed the power for but compared to what came after and how ichigo evolved more as a person and such dangai ichigo was still limited to what ichigo knew at the time, So strong yet weaker but I'd say itd be like that scene in the zanpoktou rebellion filler where they said zaraki's zanpoktou couldn't be shown as his power would destroy the place and so the creator had to step in.
The other sort of big difference between _Dangai_ and _The Blade is Me_ is that Dangai Ichigo's zanpakuto still isn't a "true" zanpakuto, forged from an Asauchi.
I wonder how quincy powers affected the final getsuga considering its shinigami technique since Isshin was propably capable of using it
I'm still waiting for a discussion about what Aizen was going to say to Ichigo before Ichigo grabbed him and took him away to fight. He was starting to say that there was no need to destroy the town. I've never heard or read much about that, because everyone focuses on the before with Gin and the after with Ichigo.
Not to mention, the characters that died from Aizen's big attack are very minimal. Gin, some of the Arrancars (the ones who were bad enough to eventually be killed as villains), Tosen (which was a result from his transformation), aaaaand I think that's about it. If Aizen was and is as powerful as we all agree that he is, that would kinda lead to the consensus that he had no intention of killing anyone. Yamamoto might be the exception to that, because there might have been no way to incapcitate him that Aizen could think of.
I don't think we've seen all that TYBW Ichigo can do. Manga was shortened but so far we've seen Kubo is adding a LOT. I'm sure we'll revisit this after the arc has concluded.
It's worth mentoning that during the fight with Zaraki in soul society, Zangetsu tells ichigo that two powers that are not working together hurt eachothers power. This is what always holds him back.
I thought final getsuga was his personal version of the quincy letzt stil but with all his powers and that since he does not have any quincy training then he should be able to add his own version of volstandig to the horn of salvation
“Ichigo gets ran thru.. AND HE LIKES IT?!?!”
Is Oetsu the first person to be able to communicate with ichigo while he's in his inner world? I can't remember, but if so, that's a neat detail.
Transcendence wasn't dropped Tommo, it's the crux of the Thousand Year Blood War arc as the only truly transcendental being was butchered to bring forth the world as it is (the original sin of Bleach) and the Zero division were ready to do it again to Ichigo had the soul king died and yhwach wasn't in a good enough state to replace his father (in too many constituent parts than ideal basically).
Aizen couldn't have been a soul king candidate for one simple reason: He's missing the Quincy element which, imho, is also why he go clapped by Dangai Ichigo senseless.
Dangai Ichigo should have been his form with his true zanpakuto.
no
@@relaxedclaw you cant tell me mugetsu looks worse than the outfit with the one pauldron and the white cross taking up the whole torso.
@@vileluca I mean that was simply an outfit he got from soul palace and not the forms outfit. When he originally got his swords from oetsu he didn't have that on, and in the hell arc one shot he didn't have it on either
@@relaxedclawI'm aware what he looked like. I'm saying what he ought to have looked like.
@vileluca I agree with you. Mugetsu should have been the final form
I feel like dangai ichigo is what was said, the pinnacle of hollow and shinigami without the quincy holding him back. Yes he accepted his power, but only what he knew of it. His quincy power was not active until the blade is me. So almost his true shikai, then dangai following his true bankai would be the scale