My heart goes out to you. From experience doing this I must say as you begin it becomes very depressing and overwhelming. If you continue this job and repairs you will learn much. Your confidence and mastery over much is something that only time and sweat can buy. Best wishes. You seem like the kind of man who will prevail.
A surprising amount of one's time boating is dedicated to just this kind of thing. Taking things apart and putting them back together again. Hopefully in better shape than when you started. But not always. The actual sailing can remain distant and aspirational. To avoid the "dropping the keel nightmare" there are older boats where the keel is integral to the hull. No seams, no bolts--one piece, cast as one. So... on to other nightmares. The engine dies. Or the rudder falls off. Your rig collapses. Leaks, leaks, leaks. Bon voyage!
Cast Iron Keels are really a bear to deal with. Corrosion keeps occurring because the metal is porous (very) and can hold hidden moisture long after you have done a surface grind and resealed it. The best practice with this type of keel is to remove it and sandblast it. Many of the issues you had were because you just can't tell from the outside, and when you can't be sure you just have to go the go the full monty with refurbishment. I'm lucky that my cast iron keel is far, far smaller and easier to remove, move, and store so I could do everything indoors. Sand-blasted away all the damage and corrosion and immediately sealed with epoxy only hours after the blasting was completed. Keep in mind, many of the issues in this video weren't due to the keel itself, but the keel to hull joint and the interior grid structure, but very well handled after hard lessons learned.
I've heard exactly the same, regarding cast iron keels. And I would tackle the keel corrosion exactly how you suggested but, as you also mentioned, the issues were really on the structure on the hull supporting the keel. Oh well, now we should be fine unless we run aground. Cheers for the positive and helpful comment!
1. I have just subscribed to follow you. 2. I am so so so sorry that this happened to you. And then the engine! Terrible. I have owned 5 different cruising boats one over 50 years old and never had keel problems of any kind. I have put thousands of sea miles on all of them. . My Kelly Peterson 44 had encapsulated ballast of the cheapest kind and even though that it was nearly 30 yrs old never gave me and problems. It was steel punching (scrap metal) encapsulated in concrete. Worked great. The best which I have also had with 3 of the boats, is encapsulated cast lead keel. I know this information will not help you much now but perhaps will help others. I follow a number of cruising UA-cam channels and have never been a Patron of one. I will change that with you. I can’t help much as I am retired but will do what I can. It all ads up! Good luck on this trying adventure. Keep on it.
Hi Fred, cheers for the message! 5 boats in 50years. Why keeping on changing? To better suit the sailing you were doing or to better suit you? More and more I realise Saetta is great, but I'm not sure if I can handle her in 10 years time. Too much bending over. Anyway, I'm completely in agreement with your comment: having an encapsulated keel would be the better option. So if anyone else is reading this and you're wondering about keels, look for a encapsulated one! When I got Saetta I had about 5 weekends worth of experience, so didn't know how to evaluate boats properly. Same with the rigging; Saetta has a baby stay which i hate, but only found that out a few years in. About Patreon, I would love to have you there, but if you can't it's not a problem at all! You need to take care of yourself first! I hope you like the videos that will come next. And if you have opinion in what you're seeing, let me know!
@@Sailing_Saetta Good questions. Boat #1 Alberg 35. Was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew. A Catagory 5 storm that little survived. We were well insured. Boat #2 Kelly Peterson 44. Loved it. Big improvement. And enabled us to get into the charter trade. Charted it with 1-2wk long crewed charters. Did this 2-3 months a year. Mostly Caribbean, Central America and South America. After 10 yrs. we were ready for a change so sold boat for a decent profit! Bought a motor coach and lived aboard and traveled for 3 yrs. OK enough of that. Fun, and quite a few similarities but not the same. Lets get back to a boat and the sea. Bought a Cal 2-46 the best live aboard cruiser! Sailed for 10 yrs. Sold it for a profit. No significant problems with either of these boats. Had to change a fuel tank in the Peterson was about the worst. Now we are getting older and decided to downsize to a shoal draft Tartan 37 foot sloop. Brings us to the present. Only one thing always true about boats. “ everything is a trade-off if you gain one, you loose another. Find the boat with the best set of trade-offs for what you are doing. We were always on a budget, and we always bought used boats from 13 to 45 yrs old. Over all we have really done well with our boats. Also, you will find that boats in the US are much cheaper than Europe.
@@Sailing_Saetta you are probably the most in need of Patreon support out of the many sailing channels I have seen. However you immediately caution Fred to take care of himself first all the while like I say needing peoples generosity so badly. Well done by you and your family, may karma come your way and reward you with many gifts and contributions to your cause / needs.
Hi guys. I also feel like the surveyors misguided you. The first surveyor`s recommendation of dropping the keel without scraping the paint to verify if there was a structural crack was unacceptable. I have a hard time understanding the decision to drop the keel when the survey revealed no structural damage or cracks from inside. Considering the flexible filler was replaced with a hard material seems a very logical explanation. Also, all the work you did after also inspection from below and no damage or fault, , after the keel is dropped! Tje good thing is, you learned a great deal about your boat. We too. Thanks, and have a great journey.
Their is an easy explanation. The slight movement is always to be expected as it is out of the water (more boyent in the water and would carry the weight). The mistake made was to use a hard sealant between the boat hull and the keel. That was the big mistake. Next time use a soft sealant. All that work to take the Kemal off was for nothing. Ps - I am a Civil Engineer.
Exactly. They wasted all that money because the yard screwed up and no surveyors would sign off on it to cover their asses. Ok the keel grid is stiffer now than design but is that going to cause issues elsewhere? What else did they scŕew up ?!
Also all the cable runs etc pass through the centre ie the neutral axis of the beams which is fairly standard practice and doesn't compromise the beams. Understand the things yourself and then you dont get ripped off.
@@philippadowney549 There is a thinking that say the hull and keel should be allowed to move and bend with the stress and loads of waves. At sail the stress on the keel and the load should not be allowed to completely transfer to the hull. Some fexability is good, helps disperse the stress. I am not an expert but I do know about structures. Byond that have read on the context.
So I'm going to ask, what seems to me, to be an obvious question... Before you had the work done, there was a flexible seal around the recessed keel. A flexible seal would allow the keel to move a certain amount without cracking. The yard went and put a "hard" seal around the recessed keel. That "harder" material is what cracked. So, the question...was the problem really with the keel? Or was the problem is that the yard went and put a rigid and hard material where a flexible material was...and then, as the boat was moved the hard material then cracked? The fact that your surveyors couldn't find an obvious issue for several days and then jerked the boat around actually makes me MORE suspicious that the issue really was that the yard screwed up by putting a hard join on in the first place. Not that your stronger keel is a bad thing... Most boats with a fin/spade keels have real issues over time with keel bolts and how they are joined with the hull, and groundings and repeated haul-outs can only make that damage worse. But I think the yard that did your bottom work screwed you over.
I agree with your assessment. I'd also like to know if they actually tried tightening the bolts down, and my first action would have been to see if they had worked loose over the years. I suspect that the keel has always been that loose, and dropping 2mm when lifted, the hard coating just made this obvious. For a crack to be created in the coating, the keel would need to be separating from the hull, hence suspecting loose bolts. For the hull to be sagging as the engineers suggest, I don't believe you would see straight crack lines along where the keel meets the hull, more so fracturing of the coating where the hull is flexing.
I agree with your assesment too, though the 2mm vertical drop when lifting the boat does seem on the high side - just a 'by eye' measurement I think. I have the same type of boat (moody 419) coppercoated two years ago. It has a crack in the coppercoat along the line of the keel joint. Thats because the joint is quite wide and the filler isnt completely hard, but the coppercoat is. If there was a real problem, I would see water bleed from the joint for sometime after putting the boat ashore.
agreed, i think its just 'natural' flex in the hull, and the hard filler and coat that led to crack, and likely yard trying to cover their mistake, as for keel nuts, im sure the surveyors would have checked them in the investigations and not recommended hardening the hull if they had been found loose
agree with all you say, fiberglass yachts by their very nature are meant to, flex go below when sailing upwind into 25 knots and listen to all the creaking. imho The yard is to blame, they should never have put hard filler in the void, the yacht was sat on its keel when filler applied with about 7 ton of fiberglass sat on top , i would have been happy with a 2 mm flex, those older Moodys were built with hulls much thicker than your average mass production modern yacht, and just look at the wide flange on the keel, safety already built in...........
Boat builders need to return to the integrated full, or full modified, keels! Actually, bolted “keels” are not keels at all: they are fins. It’s a daggerboard with some cheap stainless bolts holding it on. When it fails, your boat will capsize in seconds.
Agree. It's a crap keel design. Run aground and the keel is compromised. Tony Bulamore and Simon le Bon's racing boat had these crap keel designs which failed and both boats capsized. I prefer long keels with internal ballast like your Island Packet's and Fisher Motorsailers.
We didn't go for longer bolts (because they were already on the limit, but go for larger plates. After so many comments i realise i missed a few details that might be helpful to others, such as this one, and will make a video with it. Cheers for the reminder, recommendation and comment.
As a fellow sailer and multiple boat owner my heart goes out to you. When your all finished you will be broke but have a great boat to enjoy. The joy of sailing is worth the pain.
Fiberglass yachts by their very nature are meant to, flex go below when sailing upwind into 25 knots and listen to all the creaking. imho The yard is to blame, they should never have put hard filler in the void, the yacht was sat on its keel when filler applied with about 7 ton of fiberglass sat on top , i would have been happy with a 2 mm flex, those older Moodys were built with hulls much thicker than your average mass production modern yacht, and just look at the wide flange on the keel, safety already built in...........
would have been interesting to know if the manufacturer was contacted in regards to the "flexing".. as an engineer I would really say that this flexing did look pretty natural, given that you let the unsupported keel hang from the laminate.. not sure who has never heard of boats flexing a little under load.. and that was some pretty heavy load.. the flexible sealant was there for a reason no doubt..
And that my friend is why you should purchase a boat that has the keel encapsulated as part of the boat ,I had a boat which was grounded and it cost 50 thousand Canadian dollars to fix keel removal reinforced the bottom of boat a huge expensive job I now own a full keeled boat with a encapsulated keel
Yeah, live and learn. Or try to learn from others mistakes! Thats why I made the video. Nice to know I'm not alone! I didn't know enough about boats (or sailing) when I got Saetta, and no one could have discovered the issue unless they did what the yard did. Anyway, time to move on and enjoy the boat
Wow so much work, for what looks like loose keel bolts! On iron keels, the galvanized keel bolts need to be replaced on a regular basis. Before all of this, did you try to torque the keel bolts? Was there evidence of flexing in the fibreglass where the keel bolts were?
So sorry to hear of your struggles, hard to watch actually. But it was fascinating to see what it would take to just strengthen a hull post build. I wondered how you would rewire the boat with less compromising holes. Your boat would now be an excellent keeper or a desired one for those looking for a yacht with longevity. I need to watch the engine episode now.
All thos lines going thru the stringers are the result of lazyness from yards and / or previous owners. The image you showed of the +/- 10 cables and pipes through a stringer makes the stringer useless : it has a zipper effect. I don't know what you decision was but on my own boat all the electrical lines went on the side of the boat and I managed to have the pipes pass under and along the settees. Gives cleanr bottom, and your stringers are safe. Good luck with your engine!
Seems like the keel was carrying most of the boats weight and compressed into the hull while while being painted. Don't think anything was wrong with the keel or hull in the first place. Problem most likely started when the keel bolts weren't properly tightened causing it to separate from the hull when lifted. Someone failed to torque the bolts and to apply lifting force underneath the keel while this process is being done. Next time let the keel hang then prep and paint. PS I'm not a real doctor, but i play one on TV . . .
Sorry you got screwed totally. First the yard did wrong with a non flexible seal around the keel and iff those 3 survivors couldn’t see the most obvious problem you got screwed several times. Keel bolts was slack and needed to be torque to the right specifications. Everything was done wrong here :/
I'd like to know if they actually tried tightening the bolts down, and my first action would have been to see if they had worked loose over the years. I suspect that the keel has always been that loose, and dropping 2mm when lifted, the hard coating just made this obvious. For a crack to be created in the coating, the keel would need to be separating from the hull, hence suspecting loose bolts. For the hull to be sagging as the engineers suggest, I don't believe you would see straight crack lines along where the keel meets the hull, more so fracturing of the coating where the hull is flexing
thats a real sad story but thanks for sharing, you didn't mention if the yard had installed the keel originally using a proper torque wrench which adjusts each nut to exactly the correct torque?
Keel setup on your moody is same as my old moody 1980 33s so good to see your videos my keel bolts are bolts not nuts and studs how were they toget undone and out please?
I pressed "like" because it was a good and informative video, not because I found plesiosaur in your sufferings. Glad you came out on top in the end. Best regards from Jarle
Thinking that your Four Tonne Keel was hanging off the Hull purely with the Glass Fibre hull which is supporting same and some steel spreader washers thrown in for good measure, thinking that the GRP fibreglass hull was just taking that full weight was on those Keel nuts /bolts and then flexing with the weight of the unsupported Keel once same came off the cradle, worked in a small Yacht Boatyard over forty years ago where that was happening. The company had to outsource special proprietary structural stainless steel support channel brackets and then same were fibre glassed into those hulls as stiffening Keel Supports to spread the load within the Hull in a series of stiffening support ribs, a lot of the boats were recalled and the company had to rectify that issue... don't think those surveyors caught the real problem namely the hull was being pulled down with the physical weight of the Heel...sorry for all your trouble hopefully by your efforts reinforcing the bottom of the hull you have sorted same...
They is an old say .".they are the people who sail and soon or latter hit the bottom and the ones who lies about it ..." encapsulated keel sound too to have issues with rusting keel inside who crack the fiberglass, or some have woid , and over the years the water creates hosmosis by the inside..I sail all my life and bolt keel are soon or latter an issue ..except this boat in saw and it was so well built in the USA , that a steal rim was all around the inside of the boat supporting the keel and the effort spread on this large steal rim all inside the boat ..but like indestructible that for sure ..the modern boats like Bavaria , Beneteau..ect..are built for charter in mind , look good but when you see the few bolts supporting the keel , a bit of a concern as I have been through some big seas in my life time and any boat can feel like being drop wilddely of a wave ..I am not at my age dor the maintenance of a steal boat, or aluminium but I must admit that the keel welded all along the hull is certainly very safe , even grounded, the steal or aluminium just bent , not normally crack as fiberglass....stay away from composite hull that for sure ...composite is really for racing , and they fix the keel often ..
I suspect keel not bolted on properly at manufacture. Maybe keel was 'offered up' to the boat and the bolts tightened but didn't adequately pull/clamp the joint together. Sealant was holding it up, so when sealant was replaced the original bond was disturbed, hence it dropped onto the bolts. Integrity of critical bolted joints, especially clamping and bearing(contact) area, has to be verifiable. If it can't be verified, use a different method to achieve what you're trying to do.
Hi Charles, we tried retighting the bolts. Some of them moved, others did not, even with a 2m lever. For sure the keel has been dropped since manufacturing. After all it had been 35 years since :) But i take the point regarding the checking the integrity.
What a shame. However, good decision on not sailing and getting this solved. Better safe than dead. We argue about steel versus GrP, but each needs maintenance eventually.
they didn't change the bolts as they looked really good (they are stainless steel). Of course that means nothing until they are under load. However, if the flex was finished after the hull was reinforced, i would suggest the issue was not on the bolts. That said, i don't think anyone mentioned that as a possibility. So cheers for the comment and thought!
Wow Miguel what a story.😳 I won’t stray into armchair hindsight because it’s all in the past now and presumably you are now enjoying the fruits of your labour and investment. You are in good company - Mads (Sail Life) and Expedition Drenched have undertaken similar work. Subscribed.😀👍⛵️
Hi Norman! I so appreciate your comment. So many people just have such silly comments like "you should have bought a better boat"... I mean, what the hell am I suppose to do with that! Anyway, I'm curious what your thoughts were. And yes, we're enjoying the fruits quite a bit now. We're in La Gomera waiting for a weather window to cross to the Caribbean! Can't wait!!
It almost looks as though the joint between the horizontal portion of the keel was not properly repaired/cleaned prior to reinstallation of the keel. The Sikaflex adhered to the keel pan and the and the keel except for those horizontal surfaces.
Hi Miguel, hope you are on your way to the Caribbean by now. Thanks for the very informative video. Do keep us posted. Richard c/o Yacht BoB, still on the hard, Port Edgar
Hi Richard! How's it going up there? We're in La Gomera waiting for a weather window.. Right now we even have a low pressure system developing where trade winds should be o_0 Nice that you liked the video, and I hope you will like the ones that are coming!
I would suggest you think of moving to a different yard as I think the one you are at are either con -men or incompetent . Also who authorized the use of hard filling compound ? As that was a bad idea . If you think about it joining a rigid steel keel to a flexible hull with a rigid bedding compound was doomed to fail . I think if you put the boat back together with a properly designed flexible gasket and bedding all should be well . The boat has been around for a few years with no probs up to the point that the yards used the wrong bedding compound.So there is no inherent design problem.
thats one if the reasons i bought a steel boat. a welder, angle grinder and a paint brush is all you need. If something is wrong, cut ist out and weld a new panel in.
They filled the gap with the weight of the boat resting on the keel, lifting the boat always gives hull flexing, seen it before, know a nice oyster 37 rotting away because of this, the owner went scared and bought a new boat
It is hard to tell from a video, but usually holes in the middle of a beam, such as your floors, have no effect on the strength. Just about all of the stresses on a beam are exerted at the margins. In the middle, the stresses cancel. Drilling through the cancelled stress area has no effect.
@@francisverhelst9375 looking at how everything went down and how nobody even seems to care that it is pretty normal for laminate to flex under load.. yeah there goes the credibility.
You did well to deal with this issue before it became an embarrassing or dangerous one. My Moody 376 suffered hull damage after a grounding by the previous owner. The repairs were disclosed to me at the time of purchase, but of course it wasn’t feasible to examine the quality of the work. A year later, ironically after CopperCoat treatment in my home port yard, the poor workmanship became suddenly apparent when the vessel nearly sank in her berth. Similar to your case, the surveyor recommended reinforcement .... in my case, of the keel stub. The original repair by a yard in Kent was revealed to have been a bodge job, using filler and fairing compound instead of layers of glass and resin. The result, after my home yard in Tollesbury completed a proper repair, has been excellent. “Stronger than the original” in the words of my surveyor in his formal report. I’ve since moved on to another boat, but the Moody is still owned in my family and the hull is giving no problems at all. I hope it’s the same for you. Thanks for sharing your story, it will help others. I hope you have also described the repair work on the Moody Owners’ website, which is an invaluable resource.
Honestly before I say my piece, I wasn't there to help you with all that hard work, and I felt bad for you, But before you started the work, I was thinking,What else is going to go wrong, Normally disaster always comes in two, So I watch until the end only to see that after all that work , The engine went out, Question is was it worth it?, I guess you would've never know, But don't we?, Afterall it is a old boat, and you have to expect that at anytime, something is gonna follow up.
At the time I still had the dream of sailing around the world and wasn't ready to quit on it. Also, if i was to sell the boat, i had to fix this otherwise it would devalue more than the fix. So we went ahead with everything. ~3years on, it's hard to put a money figure on all the great times we had aboard. But one thing is for sure, i'm happy we tried to do this. The original dream has change significantly after experiencing what I thought I wanted (cruising around)! On that regard, yes it was worth doing the work. But i could have taken all the money invested and spend 2 years travel by other means, and have stayed in 4+ star hotels along the way. So, which is better, i dont know. But now i say it was a good decision, but maybe not the best or wisest decision
fair enough! especially in grp boats. metal ones can take a bigger punch, i think. But it's also about the construction; the keel being encapsulated or not and how sturdy is the floor. Do you have a boat?
Honestly, these boats were built to last 20-25 years. After that the bills mount up. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, they're just built to a price. A man once told me 'If you're looking for a cheap boat, you can't afford it.' I dismissed it with all the hubris of youth, but he was right.
It’s almost hilarious to see all kinds of experts having a opinion. The most common reason you see cracks around a keel base is that the hull is flexible. In most cases when the boat didn’t run aground there is no need to lower a keel. You see this question over and over again on you tube. Reinforcing the hull is not always a wise thing. Hulls must flex a bit to stay one whole. Thinking te hull can make cracks and deamination too. The fix in this video appears to be sufficient as it is a small repair and not altering the hull .
@@MonkPetite Not gonna lie - I looked at your channel and we pretty much watch the identical videos on here. So, I’m pretty sure we’re best friends who haven’t met. Carry on, sir. If you’re ever Downeast, I have a assload of glass work I’d love a hand with.
@@MonkPetite I’m probably using the wrong terminology, but when I click on your avatar, it shows what it calls your “channel” and your vids. Airplanes and boats. Unless…I’m looking at my own history and saying “hey this guy likes the same stuff”. That could be true too
What a painful experience. Not all surveyors are created equal and short of one of them being an engineer or naval architect I’m not sure I would have gone all in based on their opinion. Of course that’s easy for me to say after watching your video. At the end of all this I hope you have a vessel you have confidence in.
This really rubs me raw. If a surveyor says something is the issue and later after days and dollars are spent nothing is clearly wrong they should be liable... same with mechanics or doctors. These individuals are billing for their knowledge and are wrong just as much as they are right
My keel looks worse than that! The guy who sandblasted the worst rust off mine seemed to have seen keels lke mine all he time. So I slobbered on some anti rust epoxy (it's filled with lots of zink and alluminum. When I get back to the boatyard, I am considering encapsulating the whle cast iron keel wih a cucoon of fiberglass and epoxy. I know the previous owner changed the keel bolts. There is a dude Roger Ball who did a lot of work to his twin keel boat which I found inspiring. I don't think he's done yet! I have a feeling that being on the hard has a detrimental effect on these vessels! Especially when blocked up by semi-humans.
I didn't know it was a possibility to encapsulate keels if they are not design that way.. but yeah, if that's a thing, it sounds like a plan. When i sandblasted mine, the guy used salt, which was great to get the old antifoul out, but not to deal with the rust :) luckily he gave me a bunch of similar epoxy to the one you mentioned, and it's still holding fine after some years. What i also did was add a plate between the 2 nuts, and the washer sits on top of that one. This to help spread the loads even better. It doesn't sound like this is an issue for you, but if you're talking about keel work i just thought about mentioning it. Best of luck with your jobs!!
Your search is to noting. The problem is the hard filling.. it should not be there. These keels are a bit flexible.. look at Bavaria and benetau. They all do this. Next time lift the ship a bit is you like to stuff the gaps. I think your the yard had not the right knowledge at hand when they started the job
cheers for the message. I subscribed to his channel, since he has quite interesting and helpful stuff. plus, his finishes and attention to detail are second to none!! but our boats are different.
Fin keels are for racing only and full keels are for blue water sailing. People r asking for trouble sailing with keel bolts keels and 28 keels have fallen off the last 20 yrs killing 18 people.
It would be prudent to consider a second opinion on your engine problem. Sorry but it seems like the boat yard is also doing there best to bankrupt you.
Yeah right ! the boat is ready , supplies are loaded, GPS working fine funny though is does not show any movement , but the keel has fallen down to the bottom of the sea. uynny guy you are . I will subscribe to your bad luck , send me some pictures , rall
We appreciate the words! It was quite the undertaking, but well worth doing it. At least now we know the keel should not be giving us problem unless we run aground :)
The owner is a lill tightassed and a little inept, but only a little. When you bring in the surveyors, they have to point to some possible mystery problem in the keel structure for you to fix. Otherwise they are getting politically incorrect with the marina who did the bottom job for you. If they do that, they wont get referrals from that marina, and maybe not from other marinas either. These bolted on keels are like balsa cored hulls. They solve the problem of fiberglass boats lasting forever. Mutual of omahas wild kingdom should do an episode of what happens to old boats and their owners when things start breaking. Its kinda like what happens to old caribou when the wolves come around. Why didnt the survyors, the marina owner, and the techs just start biting you and tearing hunks of meat off you? Better than spending days grinding... seriously get some better quality abrasives.
Wow. That is some tough luck with the keel, and I wish you the best. I get that your “solutions” were more expensive than you imagined they would be, but the costs obviously didn’t bankrupt you. Please, please, please stop using clickbait language!
It cost around 25k GBP, and that was slightly lower because, as you saw, I did part of the work myself (mostly the prep and clean-up). I didn't want to do the fiberglass work, as it's critical job and it would become an insurance and reliability question mark if i did it myself.
I’m very sorry but as an out of work type for over year. And most likely going to loose my home. In 4 weeks. I feel the pain wish I could put up patreon so I might get a break . But nope :) . I’m from Sweden so if doesn’t make sense sorry ;) But I like your video and let people know I would like some cash to lol
....why are you loosing your house? hasn't your Government place a moratorium on mortgages, or loans on homes? Just curious, the Trump Administration has been a catastrophe here in the U.S.
My heart goes out to you. From experience doing this I must say as you begin it becomes very depressing and overwhelming. If you continue this job and repairs you will learn much. Your confidence and mastery over much is something that only time and sweat can buy. Best wishes. You seem like the kind of man who will prevail.
A surprising amount of one's time boating is dedicated to just this kind of thing. Taking things apart and putting them back together again. Hopefully in better shape than when you started. But not always. The actual sailing can remain distant and aspirational. To avoid the "dropping the keel nightmare" there are older boats where the keel is integral to the hull. No seams, no bolts--one piece, cast as one. So... on to other nightmares. The engine dies. Or the rudder falls off. Your rig collapses. Leaks, leaks, leaks. Bon voyage!
It's a very bad subject and occasion, but a very good video! Good job Miguel, keep them coming.
Cheers guys!! I was getting all emotional thinking and talking about it, but it's all good now (famous last words...)
Cast Iron Keels are really a bear to deal with. Corrosion keeps occurring because the metal is porous (very) and can hold hidden moisture long after you have done a surface grind and resealed it. The best practice with this type of keel is to remove it and sandblast it. Many of the issues you had were because you just can't tell from the outside, and when you can't be sure you just have to go the go the full monty with refurbishment. I'm lucky that my cast iron keel is far, far smaller and easier to remove, move, and store so I could do everything indoors. Sand-blasted away all the damage and corrosion and immediately sealed with epoxy only hours after the blasting was completed. Keep in mind, many of the issues in this video weren't due to the keel itself, but the keel to hull joint and the interior grid structure, but very well handled after hard lessons learned.
I've heard exactly the same, regarding cast iron keels. And I would tackle the keel corrosion exactly how you suggested but, as you also mentioned, the issues were really on the structure on the hull supporting the keel. Oh well, now we should be fine unless we run aground. Cheers for the positive and helpful comment!
1. I have just subscribed to follow you. 2. I am so so so sorry that this happened to you. And then the engine! Terrible.
I have owned 5 different cruising boats one over 50 years old and never had keel problems of any kind. I have put thousands of sea miles on all of them. . My Kelly Peterson 44 had encapsulated ballast of the cheapest kind and even though that it was nearly 30 yrs old never gave me and problems. It was steel punching (scrap metal) encapsulated in concrete. Worked great. The best which I have also had with 3 of the boats, is encapsulated cast lead keel. I know this information will not help you much now but perhaps will help others.
I follow a number of cruising UA-cam channels and have never been a Patron of one. I will change that with you. I can’t help much as I am retired but will do what I can. It all ads up! Good luck on this trying adventure. Keep on it.
Hi Fred, cheers for the message! 5 boats in 50years. Why keeping on changing? To better suit the sailing you were doing or to better suit you? More and more I realise Saetta is great, but I'm not sure if I can handle her in 10 years time. Too much bending over. Anyway, I'm completely in agreement with your comment: having an encapsulated keel would be the better option. So if anyone else is reading this and you're wondering about keels, look for a encapsulated one! When I got Saetta I had about 5 weekends worth of experience, so didn't know how to evaluate boats properly. Same with the rigging; Saetta has a baby stay which i hate, but only found that out a few years in. About Patreon, I would love to have you there, but if you can't it's not a problem at all! You need to take care of yourself first! I hope you like the videos that will come next. And if you have opinion in what you're seeing, let me know!
@@Sailing_Saetta Good questions. Boat #1 Alberg 35. Was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew. A Catagory 5 storm that little survived. We were well insured. Boat #2 Kelly Peterson 44. Loved it. Big improvement. And enabled us to get into the charter trade. Charted it with 1-2wk long crewed charters. Did this 2-3 months a year. Mostly Caribbean, Central America and South America. After 10 yrs. we were ready for a change so sold boat for a decent profit! Bought a motor coach and lived aboard and traveled for 3 yrs. OK enough of that. Fun, and quite a few similarities but not the same. Lets get back to a boat and the sea. Bought a Cal 2-46 the best live aboard cruiser! Sailed for 10 yrs. Sold it for a profit. No significant problems with either of these boats. Had to change a fuel tank in the Peterson was about the worst. Now we are getting older and decided to downsize to a shoal draft Tartan 37 foot sloop. Brings us to the present. Only one thing always true about boats. “ everything is a trade-off if you gain one, you loose another. Find the boat with the best set of trade-offs for what you are doing. We were always on a budget, and we always bought used boats from 13 to 45 yrs old. Over all we have really done well with our boats. Also, you will find that boats in the US are much cheaper than Europe.
@@Sailing_Saetta you are probably the most in need of Patreon support out of the many sailing channels I have seen. However you immediately caution Fred to take care of himself first all the while like I say needing peoples generosity so badly. Well done by you and your family, may karma come your way and reward you with many gifts and contributions to your cause / needs.
Thanks for sharing such a difficult experience, and an opportunity to learn from it. Good luck on your next adventure!
Cheers for the message Ed!!
Hi guys. I also feel like the surveyors misguided you. The first surveyor`s recommendation of dropping the keel without scraping the paint to verify if there was a structural crack was unacceptable. I have a hard time understanding the decision to drop the keel when the survey revealed no structural damage or cracks from inside. Considering the flexible filler was replaced with a hard material seems a very logical explanation. Also, all the work you did after also inspection from below and no damage or fault, , after the keel is dropped! Tje good thing is, you learned a great deal about your boat. We too. Thanks, and have a great journey.
Their is an easy explanation. The slight movement is always to be expected as it is out of the water (more boyent in the water and would carry the weight). The mistake made was to use a hard sealant between the boat hull and the keel. That was the big mistake. Next time use a soft sealant. All that work to take the Kemal off was for nothing. Ps - I am a Civil Engineer.
PS. I'm not a real Doctor, but i play one TV . . .
@@whiggerhunter4268 what? What is that got to do with a bag of chips?
Exactly. They wasted all that money because the yard screwed up and no surveyors would sign off on it to cover their asses.
Ok the keel grid is stiffer now than design but is that going to cause issues elsewhere? What else did they scŕew up ?!
Also all the cable runs etc pass through the centre ie the neutral axis of the beams which is fairly standard practice and doesn't compromise the beams.
Understand the things yourself and then you dont get ripped off.
@@philippadowney549 There is a thinking that say the hull and keel should be allowed to move and bend with the stress and loads of waves. At sail the stress on the keel and the load should not be allowed to completely transfer to the hull. Some fexability is good, helps disperse the stress.
I am not an expert but I do know about structures. Byond that have read on the context.
So I'm going to ask, what seems to me, to be an obvious question... Before you had the work done, there was a flexible seal around the recessed keel. A flexible seal would allow the keel to move a certain amount without cracking. The yard went and put a "hard" seal around the recessed keel. That "harder" material is what cracked. So, the question...was the problem really with the keel? Or was the problem is that the yard went and put a rigid and hard material where a flexible material was...and then, as the boat was moved the hard material then cracked? The fact that your surveyors couldn't find an obvious issue for several days and then jerked the boat around actually makes me MORE suspicious that the issue really was that the yard screwed up by putting a hard join on in the first place. Not that your stronger keel is a bad thing... Most boats with a fin/spade keels have real issues over time with keel bolts and how they are joined with the hull, and groundings and repeated haul-outs can only make that damage worse. But I think the yard that did your bottom work screwed you over.
I agree with your assessment. I'd also like to know if they actually tried tightening the bolts down, and my first action would have been to see if they had worked loose over the years. I suspect that the keel has always been that loose, and dropping 2mm when lifted, the hard coating just made this obvious. For a crack to be created in the coating, the keel would need to be separating from the hull, hence suspecting loose bolts. For the hull to be sagging as the engineers suggest, I don't believe you would see straight crack lines along where the keel meets the hull, more so fracturing of the coating where the hull is flexing.
I agree with your assesment too, though the 2mm vertical drop when lifting the boat does seem on the high side - just a 'by eye' measurement I think. I have the same type of boat (moody 419) coppercoated two years ago. It has a crack in the coppercoat along the line of the keel joint. Thats because the joint is quite wide and the filler isnt completely hard, but the coppercoat is. If there was a real problem, I would see water bleed from the joint for sometime after putting the boat ashore.
agreed, i think its just 'natural' flex in the hull, and the hard filler and coat that led to crack, and likely yard trying to cover their mistake, as for keel nuts, im sure the surveyors would have checked them in the investigations and not recommended hardening the hull if they had been found loose
theres a reason the factory used flexible sealant.... so it could flex...hello . way over thought this,,, a fool and his money will soon be separate
agree with all you say, fiberglass yachts by their very nature are meant to, flex go below when sailing upwind into 25 knots and listen to
all the creaking. imho The yard is to blame, they should never have put hard filler in the void, the yacht was sat on its keel when filler applied with about 7 ton of fiberglass sat on top , i would have been happy with a 2 mm flex, those older Moodys were built with hulls much thicker
than your average mass production modern yacht, and just look at the wide flange on the keel, safety already built in...........
Boat builders need to return to the integrated full, or full modified, keels! Actually, bolted “keels” are not keels at all: they are fins. It’s a daggerboard with some cheap stainless bolts holding it on. When it fails, your boat will capsize in seconds.
Agree. It's a crap keel design. Run aground and the keel is compromised.
Tony Bulamore and Simon le Bon's racing boat had these crap keel designs which failed and both boats capsized.
I prefer long keels with internal ballast like your Island Packet's and Fisher Motorsailers.
Wow that should be truly painful. Good to know you kept pushing. I hope that keel will have many many miles under in the next years. Bons ventos!!!💙💙💙
Yeah, it was bad but at least it's done with! Or it is done with until we run aground :p Thanks for the comment and the love!
I would try to use longer bolts with plates inside.
We didn't go for longer bolts (because they were already on the limit, but go for larger plates. After so many comments i realise i missed a few details that might be helpful to others, such as this one, and will make a video with it. Cheers for the reminder, recommendation and comment.
As a fellow sailer and multiple boat owner my heart goes out to you. When your all finished you will be broke but have a great boat to enjoy. The joy of sailing is worth the pain.
Cheers for the message Neil!!
Fiberglass yachts by their very nature are meant to, flex go below when sailing upwind into 25 knots and listen to
all the creaking. imho The yard is to blame, they should never have put hard filler in the void, the yacht was sat on its keel when filler applied with about 7 ton of fiberglass sat on top , i would have been happy with a 2 mm flex, those older Moodys were built with hulls much thicker
than your average mass production modern yacht, and just look at the wide flange on the keel, safety already built in...........
would have been interesting to know if the manufacturer was contacted in regards to the "flexing".. as an engineer I would really say that this flexing did look pretty natural, given that you let the unsupported keel hang from the laminate.. not sure who has never heard of boats flexing a little under load.. and that was some pretty heavy load.. the flexible sealant was there for a reason no doubt..
And that my friend is why you should purchase a boat that has the keel encapsulated as part of the boat ,I had a boat which was grounded and it cost 50 thousand Canadian dollars to fix keel removal reinforced the bottom of boat a huge expensive job I now own a full keeled boat with a encapsulated keel
Yeah, live and learn. Or try to learn from others mistakes! Thats why I made the video. Nice to know I'm not alone! I didn't know enough about boats (or sailing) when I got Saetta, and no one could have discovered the issue unless they did what the yard did. Anyway, time to move on and enjoy the boat
TheMaker of your boat now, how big? Thank you.
I think it happens because you felt the gap with hard epoxy material, Old one was soft so it flexible other one crack when the boat got up
From what i see on the pictures, nothing was wrong with the keel or the hull. Only fault was the hard joint and maybe bolt torque.
the surveyors were confused too... but now the work is done so better look forward :)
Your tenacity is amazing.
Wow so much work, for what looks like loose keel bolts! On iron keels, the galvanized keel bolts need to be replaced on a regular basis. Before all of this, did you try to torque the keel bolts? Was there evidence of flexing in the fibreglass where the keel bolts were?
So sorry to hear of your struggles, hard to watch actually. But it was fascinating to see what it would take to just strengthen a hull post build. I wondered how you would rewire the boat with less compromising holes. Your boat would now be an excellent keeper or a desired one for those looking for a yacht with longevity. I need to watch the engine episode now.
All thos lines going thru the stringers are the result of lazyness from yards and / or previous owners.
The image you showed of the +/- 10 cables and pipes through a stringer makes the stringer useless : it has a zipper effect.
I don't know what you decision was but on my own boat all the electrical lines went on the side of the boat and I managed to have the pipes pass under and along the settees.
Gives cleanr bottom, and your stringers are safe.
Good luck with your engine!
A boat owner is happy twice in live ..when buys a boat and when sales it.
YAWN......
Or it sinks with good insurance coverage with him not aboard.
Wow did you make that up yourself?
Strange the keel support looked well done with what appears to be solid structural floors across and in good condition
Seems like the keel was carrying most of the boats weight and compressed into the hull while while being painted. Don't think anything was wrong with the keel or hull in the first place. Problem most likely started when the keel bolts weren't properly tightened causing it to separate from the hull when lifted. Someone failed to torque the bolts and to apply lifting force underneath the keel while this process is being done. Next time let the keel hang then prep and paint. PS I'm not a real doctor, but i play one on TV . . .
Omg we have the same thing in common, I'm not a real Gynecologist, but I play one in real life pretending I was on TV😄
Expedition Evans did the same mistake. It isn't designed to carry the weight of the boat - only to hang down from the hull.
@@charonstyxferryman Not sure what you mean, the majority of the keel is designed to support the majority of the weight.
Bolted keels are awful and inherently dangerous. Don’t buy such boats. If you have one, sell it.
Sorry you got screwed totally. First the yard did wrong with a non flexible seal around the keel and iff those 3 survivors couldn’t see the most obvious problem you got screwed several times. Keel bolts was slack and needed to be torque to the right specifications. Everything was done wrong here :/
Wow , when the chips are down .... behind you now thankfully ! Nice feeling to have the intimate hands on and confidence in the end result I’m sure 👍🏻
I'd like to know if they actually tried tightening the bolts down, and my first action would have been to see if they had worked loose over the years. I suspect that the keel has always been that loose, and dropping 2mm when lifted, the hard coating just made this obvious. For a crack to be created in the coating, the keel would need to be separating from the hull, hence suspecting loose bolts. For the hull to be sagging as the engineers suggest, I don't believe you would see straight crack lines along where the keel meets the hull, more so fracturing of the coating where the hull is flexing
Its also possible there's rot inside the keel, but I had the same question
it appears the keel is steel, thus the corrosion mentioned in start
thats a real sad story but thanks for sharing, you didn't mention if the yard had installed the keel originally using a proper torque wrench which adjusts each nut to exactly the correct torque?
Keel setup on your moody is same as my old moody 1980 33s so good to see your videos my keel bolts are bolts not nuts and studs how were they toget undone and out please?
I pressed "like" because it was a good and informative video, not because I found plesiosaur in your sufferings. Glad you came out on top in the end. Best regards from Jarle
Thinking that your Four Tonne Keel was hanging off the Hull purely with the Glass Fibre hull which is supporting same and some steel spreader washers thrown in for good measure, thinking that the GRP fibreglass hull was just taking that full weight was on those Keel nuts /bolts and then flexing with the weight of the unsupported Keel once same came off the cradle, worked in a small Yacht Boatyard over forty years ago where that was happening. The company had to outsource special proprietary structural stainless steel support channel brackets and then same were fibre glassed into those hulls as stiffening Keel Supports to spread the load within the Hull in a series of stiffening support ribs, a lot of the boats were recalled and the company had to rectify that issue... don't think those surveyors caught the real problem namely the hull was being pulled down with the physical weight of the Heel...sorry for all your trouble hopefully by your efforts reinforcing the bottom of the hull you have sorted same...
They is an old say .".they are the people who sail and soon or latter hit the bottom and the ones who lies about it ..." encapsulated keel sound too to have issues with rusting keel inside who crack the fiberglass, or some have woid , and over the years the water creates hosmosis by the inside..I sail all my life and bolt keel are soon or latter an issue ..except this boat in saw and it was so well built in the USA , that a steal rim was all around the inside of the boat supporting the keel and the effort spread on this large steal rim all inside the boat ..but like indestructible that for sure ..the modern boats like Bavaria , Beneteau..ect..are built for charter in mind , look good but when you see the few bolts supporting the keel , a bit of a concern as I have been through some big seas in my life time and any boat can feel like being drop wilddely of a wave ..I am not at my age dor the maintenance of a steal boat, or aluminium but I must admit that the keel welded all along the hull is certainly very safe , even grounded, the steal or aluminium just bent , not normally crack as fiberglass....stay away from composite hull that for sure ...composite is really for racing , and they fix the keel often ..
I suspect keel not bolted on properly at manufacture. Maybe keel was 'offered up' to the boat and the bolts tightened but didn't adequately pull/clamp the joint together. Sealant was holding it up, so when sealant was replaced the original bond was disturbed, hence it dropped onto the bolts. Integrity of critical bolted joints, especially clamping and bearing(contact) area, has to be verifiable. If it can't be verified, use a different method to achieve what you're trying to do.
Hi Charles, we tried retighting the bolts. Some of them moved, others did not, even with a 2m lever. For sure the keel has been dropped since manufacturing. After all it had been 35 years since :) But i take the point regarding the checking the integrity.
What a shame. However, good decision on not sailing and getting this solved. Better safe than dead. We argue about steel versus GrP, but each needs maintenance eventually.
Did they change the bolts , are they not stretching under load.
they didn't change the bolts as they looked really good (they are stainless steel). Of course that means nothing until they are under load. However, if the flex was finished after the hull was reinforced, i would suggest the issue was not on the bolts. That said, i don't think anyone mentioned that as a possibility. So cheers for the comment and thought!
So the old saw about "the two happiest days as a boat owner" is in fact true.
Break
Out
Another
Thousand
Glad you got it fixed happy ⛵
This looks like same construction as my Yankee 38, except I have bronze keel bolts The flange out at top of keel seems more sturdy than most.
Wow Miguel what a story.😳 I won’t stray into armchair hindsight because it’s all in the past now and presumably you are now enjoying the fruits of your labour and investment. You are in good company - Mads (Sail Life) and Expedition Drenched have undertaken similar work. Subscribed.😀👍⛵️
Hi Norman! I so appreciate your comment. So many people just have such silly comments like "you should have bought a better boat"... I mean, what the hell am I suppose to do with that! Anyway, I'm curious what your thoughts were.
And yes, we're enjoying the fruits quite a bit now. We're in La Gomera waiting for a weather window to cross to the Caribbean! Can't wait!!
It almost looks as though the joint between the horizontal portion of the keel was not properly repaired/cleaned prior to reinstallation of the keel. The Sikaflex adhered to the keel pan and the and the keel except for those horizontal surfaces.
my last boat job in Sydney was to rebuild a under floor structure in an old maxi bloomstick, yuck!
Damn Miguel, that must have been so stressful. Definitely highs and lows with this lifestyle.
Hi Miguel, hope you are on your way to the Caribbean by now. Thanks for the very informative video. Do keep us posted.
Richard c/o Yacht BoB, still on the hard, Port Edgar
Hi Richard! How's it going up there? We're in La Gomera waiting for a weather window.. Right now we even have a low pressure system developing where trade winds should be o_0 Nice that you liked the video, and I hope you will like the ones that are coming!
Did I just watch a commercial for catamarans?
Two things one must have confidence in a off shore yacht - Steering & keel Oh & a good supply f Rum .. Well done , Big effort .. itll be worth it .
Thanks 👍 my thoughts exactly!
Hello I think you don’t need a boat you need to hit the lottery.saludos nice video thanks Merry Christmas
Round holes, general speaking, does not weaken a structure.
There is a saying that says engineers hate right angles
I would suggest you think of moving to a different yard as I think the one you are at are either con -men or incompetent . Also who authorized the use of hard filling compound ? As that was a bad idea . If you think about it joining a rigid steel keel to a flexible hull with a rigid bedding compound was doomed to fail . I think if you put the boat back together with a properly designed flexible gasket and bedding all should be well . The boat has been around for a few years with no probs up to the point that the yards used the wrong bedding compound.So there is no inherent design problem.
I think u nailed it.
Great video, well done👍👍
Cheers Andrew!!
thats one if the reasons i bought a steel boat. a welder, angle grinder and a paint brush is all you need. If something is wrong, cut ist out and weld a new panel in.
OMG so sorry for your difficulties!! 😢
I appreciate it! Luckily we're pass those... and into others. But that's life!
They filled the gap with the weight of the boat resting on the keel, lifting the boat always gives hull flexing, seen it before, know a nice oyster 37 rotting away because of this, the owner went scared and bought a new boat
You could have bought loads of awesome beard care products for all that dough ;)
HAHA! And much needed product it would be!
Good video information tough jobs re keel& rework etc best for future sailing cheers
It is hard to tell from a video, but usually holes in the middle of a beam, such as your floors, have no effect on the strength. Just about all of the stresses on a beam are exerted at the margins. In the middle, the stresses cancel. Drilling through the cancelled stress area has no effect.
That is fully correct ! A surveyor making this sort of remarks is not credible
@@francisverhelst9375 I fear this videographer has been bankrupted by an incompetent surveyor.
@@francisverhelst9375 looking at how everything went down and how nobody even seems to care that it is pretty normal for laminate to flex under load.. yeah there goes the credibility.
Great video, hope you get things work out. I have subscribed to your channel also. Happy holidays to you and your family.
Thank you Edward!! Happy holidays to you and yours too!
Can of worms !!!! Cheers !
You did well to deal with this issue before it became an embarrassing or dangerous one.
My Moody 376 suffered hull damage after a grounding by the previous owner. The repairs were disclosed to me at the time of purchase, but of course it wasn’t feasible to examine the quality of the work.
A year later, ironically after CopperCoat treatment in my home port yard, the poor workmanship became suddenly apparent when the vessel nearly sank in her berth. Similar to your case, the surveyor recommended reinforcement .... in my case, of the keel stub.
The original repair by a yard in Kent was revealed to have been a bodge job, using filler and fairing compound instead of layers of glass and resin. The result, after my home yard in Tollesbury completed a proper repair, has been excellent. “Stronger than the original” in the words of my surveyor in his formal report.
I’ve since moved on to another boat, but the Moody is still owned in my family and the hull is giving no problems at all. I hope it’s the same for you.
Thanks for sharing your story, it will help others. I hope you have also described the repair work on the Moody Owners’ website, which is an invaluable resource.
Hi Roy! Let's hope both ours are success stories. So far so good!!
Why not have made strong stainless backing plates to distribute the load? To late now.
Did the yard break the keel while working on the paint?
they didnt break the keel. the damage was done when removing the keel because the wire snapped a couple of times
So what was the cost of the keel repair after all of that?
Good job!
I never had this problem. The lead ballast in my keel is internal.
I think the boatyard may have been short of work so they created some more
Honestly before I say my piece, I wasn't there to help you with all that hard work, and I felt bad for you, But before you started the work, I was thinking,What else is going to go wrong, Normally disaster always comes in two, So I watch until the end only to see that after all that work , The engine went out, Question is was it worth it?, I guess you would've never know, But don't we?, Afterall it is a old boat, and you have to expect that at anytime, something is gonna follow up.
At the time I still had the dream of sailing around the world and wasn't ready to quit on it. Also, if i was to sell the boat, i had to fix this otherwise it would devalue more than the fix. So we went ahead with everything. ~3years on, it's hard to put a money figure on all the great times we had aboard. But one thing is for sure, i'm happy we tried to do this. The original dream has change significantly after experiencing what I thought I wanted (cruising around)! On that regard, yes it was worth doing the work. But i could have taken all the money invested and spend 2 years travel by other means, and have stayed in 4+ star hotels along the way. So, which is better, i dont know. But now i say it was a good decision, but maybe not the best or wisest decision
That had convinced me even more that any kind of a fin keel, and a spade rudder are red flags.
fair enough! especially in grp boats. metal ones can take a bigger punch, i think. But it's also about the construction; the keel being encapsulated or not and how sturdy is the floor. Do you have a boat?
Honestly, these boats were built to last 20-25 years. After that the bills mount up. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, they're just built to a price. A man once told me 'If you're looking for a cheap boat, you can't afford it.' I dismissed it with all the hubris of youth, but he was right.
It’s almost hilarious to see all kinds of experts having a opinion.
The most common reason you see cracks around a keel base is that the hull is flexible.
In most cases when the boat didn’t run aground there is no need to lower a keel.
You see this question over and over again on you tube.
Reinforcing the hull is not always a wise thing. Hulls must flex a bit to stay one whole.
Thinking te hull can make cracks and deamination too. The fix in this video appears to be sufficient as it is a small repair and not altering the hull .
Aaaand there’s another expert
@@429ecs yup, I build boats for a living.
@@MonkPetite Not gonna lie - I looked at your channel and we pretty much watch the identical videos on here. So, I’m pretty sure we’re best friends who haven’t met. Carry on, sir. If you’re ever Downeast, I have a assload of glass work I’d love a hand with.
@@429ecs 🙃 do I have a channel?
I don’t think 🤔 I do.
@@MonkPetite I’m probably using the wrong terminology, but when I click on your avatar, it shows what it calls your “channel” and your vids. Airplanes and boats. Unless…I’m looking at my own history and saying “hey this guy likes the same stuff”. That could be true too
What a painful experience. Not all surveyors are created equal and short of one of them being an engineer or naval architect I’m not sure I would have gone all in based on their opinion. Of course that’s easy for me to say after watching your video. At the end of all this I hope you have a vessel you have confidence in.
Mast,keel, hull bound. No problem. You're obsessed.
i take my hat of to you . that boat so needs a small mysterious fire to break out on it .
This really rubs me raw. If a surveyor says something is the issue and later after days and dollars are spent nothing is clearly wrong they should be liable... same with mechanics or doctors. These individuals are billing for their knowledge and are wrong just as much as they are right
Boats! Good thing we love them.
well said!
Yes but they don`t love us back.
jezz boats can be a disaster,i am looking at buying one but even though i have the money the stress
A trying ordeal. Looks like you are powering through.
My keel looks worse than that! The guy who sandblasted the worst rust off mine seemed to have seen keels lke mine all he time. So I slobbered on some anti rust epoxy (it's filled with lots of zink and alluminum. When I get back to the boatyard, I am considering encapsulating the whle cast iron keel wih a cucoon of fiberglass and epoxy. I know the previous owner changed the keel bolts. There is a dude Roger Ball who did a lot of work to his twin keel boat which I found inspiring. I don't think he's done yet! I have a feeling that being on the hard has a detrimental effect on these vessels! Especially when blocked up by semi-humans.
I didn't know it was a possibility to encapsulate keels if they are not design that way.. but yeah, if that's a thing, it sounds like a plan. When i sandblasted mine, the guy used salt, which was great to get the old antifoul out, but not to deal with the rust :) luckily he gave me a bunch of similar epoxy to the one you mentioned, and it's still holding fine after some years. What i also did was add a plate between the 2 nuts, and the washer sits on top of that one. This to help spread the loads even better. It doesn't sound like this is an issue for you, but if you're talking about keel work i just thought about mentioning it. Best of luck with your jobs!!
Sounds like the boat yard smelled your money. Essentially your keel was fine and i wouldn't trust them with the motor after that keel fail...
Your search is to noting. The problem is the hard filling.. it should not be there.
These keels are a bit flexible.. look at Bavaria and benetau. They all do this.
Next time lift the ship a bit is you like to stuff the gaps.
I think your the yard had not the right knowledge at hand when they started the job
I feel the pain. Unfortunate.
Appreciate the comment, thanks!
Expedition Evans chronicle 7 month of boat rebuild interesting work.
I believe you have the same boat as Mads from the Sail life channel has. Maybe he could help you to improve your lot.
Kind regards,
F
cheers for the message. I subscribed to his channel, since he has quite interesting and helpful stuff. plus, his finishes and attention to detail are second to none!! but our boats are different.
Twice bankruptcy and still got the boat?
In due course, those teak decks will be bankrupting you again...
:D yeah.... they are already a hassle! but they look pretty! however, if it wouldnt have come like this when i bought her, i wouldn't have put it on
Paldies par informaciju…..
Definition of BOATT,
Bust Out Another Ten Thousand 😦
:D and a few times too!! Cheers Richard!
Man, must be nice to have a money tree or rich parents.
It's certainly nicer than being a loser in a dead end job on minimum wage.
Fin keels are for racing only and full keels are for blue water sailing. People r asking for trouble sailing with keel bolts keels and 28 keels have fallen off the last 20 yrs killing 18 people.
Far more than that. oceansailormagazine.com/are-we-facing-a-keel-and-rudder-failure-time-bomb/
It would be prudent to consider a second opinion on your engine problem. Sorry but it seems like the boat yard is also doing there best to bankrupt you.
maybe sand blast inside would be a lot faster
it definitely would have been! But i was trying to keep costs lower so..
Yeah right ! the boat is ready , supplies are loaded, GPS working fine funny though is does not show any movement , but the keel has fallen down to the bottom of the sea. uynny guy you are . I will subscribe to your bad luck , send me some pictures , rall
expedion Evans, also on youtube, is doing basically the same thing.
I have great respect for those who take on this kind of job!
The big difference is that the Moody is supposedly a well built boat and the Beneteau is not.Anyway the Beneteau ran aground...
We appreciate the words! It was quite the undertaking, but well worth doing it. At least now we know the keel should not be giving us problem unless we run aground :)
The owner is a lill tightassed and a little inept, but only a little. When you bring in the surveyors, they have to point to some possible mystery problem in the keel structure for you to fix. Otherwise they are getting politically incorrect with the marina who did the bottom job for you. If they do that, they wont get referrals from that marina, and maybe not from other marinas either. These bolted on keels are like balsa cored hulls. They solve the problem of fiberglass boats lasting forever. Mutual of omahas wild kingdom should do an episode of what happens to old boats and their owners when things start breaking. Its kinda like what happens to old caribou when the wolves come around. Why didnt the survyors, the marina owner, and the techs just start biting you and tearing hunks of meat off you? Better than spending days grinding... seriously get some better quality abrasives.
The bigger the boat, the bigger the problems
Probably could have just bought another boat for what all that cost
I can assure you we could have! I spent almost half of what I paid for the boat initially doing this repair.
yes another boat that would have needed some work again .. does not matter which boat.. there seems to be always something..
🇳🇱 Holland . 🌻 🙂
Wow. That is some tough luck with the keel, and I wish you the best. I get that your “solutions” were more expensive than you imagined they would be, but the costs obviously didn’t bankrupt you. Please, please, please stop using clickbait language!
I feel forcyou man..
How much did this repair cost?
It cost around 25k GBP, and that was slightly lower because, as you saw, I did part of the work myself (mostly the prep and clean-up). I didn't want to do the fiberglass work, as it's critical job and it would become an insurance and reliability question mark if i did it myself.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I’m very sorry but as an out of work type for over year. And most likely going to loose my home. In 4 weeks. I feel the pain wish I could put up patreon so I might get a break . But nope :) . I’m from Sweden so if doesn’t make sense sorry ;) But I like your video and let people know I would like some cash to lol
....why are you loosing your house? hasn't your Government place a moratorium on mortgages, or loans on homes? Just curious, the Trump Administration has been a catastrophe here in the U.S.
I wish you all the best and for better times ahead. I hope, at least, our videos entertain you a little to keep your mind of things!