Okay but what did she say wrong. She defended her points well as piers is a known over talker. She respected the viewpoints of these two and admitted where her info may contain invalidities.
@@tropicalnofruit1419 She blamed Churchill for famine. Even when given valid argument against it,an argument that might serve as evidence since historical facts can usually be checked that she seemingly acknowledged,but then decided to ignore. And blamed everyone else,for all the bad things,as if black people are all gentle flowers and angels that would never ever hurt anyone. WHEN she involved RACIAL argument,she lost all the credibility in my eyes. I am a white guy and probably racist
@@GameslordXY fair play shes too woke, but I couldn’t help but think she had good points. Churchills is a hero but that concentration camp shit is wild you can’t deny. African/white mixed guy whose probably as racist as the next guy.
@@tropicalnofruit1419 but u have to acknowledge that coming in a debate and mentioning a horrific event and pointing fingers and say “this man’s actions potentially caused this event” any action from a leader in a time of crisis could cause consequences if the opposite action was not taken. Her stance on this was disingenuous at best and she should not have mentioned it if her defense on it was that he potentially caused it.
@@visiionz_6699 okay but I think your underplaying how much the guy might have had a role in it. Yes piers completely brushed it off but I looked it up and he did completely abandon the people during this and I’m not surprised as he said he saw Indians as “beastly people” so yes typhoon caused it but Churchill had the opportunity to help and didn’t. So she was kinda right anyway but just didn’t phrase it descriptively enough. Churchill = racist hero 🦸♂️
That historian is the perfect example of someone not having a biased view or a one sided argument but to acknowledge the good and the bad and not to get offended by it all but to talk about what is important which is to learn from history and to try and build bridges to come together what a guy 🙏👏
Correct, seemed lost on the BLM activist who came across as extremely patronizing and very selective with her take on Churchill, only researched him after the BLM protests in 2020. As someone else said if it were not for Churchill, many of us, including her would not be here today.
@Uzi Khan Very easily. Because I am responsible for balancing two things. Living here and a past that cannot be changed. What do you want done from this issue of Churchill’s racism? In practical terms?
@@africanqueen1655the truth is usually more complex and has many aspects rather than this binary moralising the young folk go in for. It's ironic how so many will claim to be "non-binary" in gender politics but are totally and very crudely binary in politics and discussions of history. The view of discussions as something you win rather than learn from is also symptomatic of a generation raised on too many video games and the enforced decontextualised glibness of Twitter and other social media. Congratulations! You won the game! Your prize is crudity, ignorance, incomprehension and more empty headed conflict! That's not a useful approach to discussion imho. The prize is not appealing.
Here-Here It’s taken long enough to find/see a decent historian but it truly was refreshing to see. He is a person that deserves looking into given how balanced he was. - I’m still in shock to be honest; I wasn’t expecting that at all. It’s shame morgan had to spoil it all with his contrary nonsense but I expected that.
Good lord and your point is ? Every leader made mistakes whats the point in raking over old coals all it will do is cause division he saved this country thats a fact the world was a different place in his time people need to wake up to that fact
We must realize that running a country is like running a gang...and gang leaders do monstrous things. Sometimes on behalf of the people they lead and sometimes on behalf of their prejudice.
😏😏 defending churchill in case of india (👍) (it is obvious British will defend) keep defending (keep hiding from your young brits we will keep reminding) 😏🙏🏼
However, pointing fingers and waiving your hands in front of other people's face, and laughing to their face, is not so civil, is it? its very annoying.
@@Cobalt1520 Like I said, it was more civil than I expected. I didn't say it was the perfect example of "civil" did I? Also, I wouldn't class it as the best example of "un-civil", because pointing/waving your arms is, like you cleverly pointed out, is just a bit annoying.
@@RobertBoyle11 Yes it was more civil than potentially expected, but only because our standards have become very low, whenever these kinds of topics are discussed. The question is why we expect these discussions not to be so civil.
This is simply because people like this woman are sheltered to true history and the general picture of why people made the decisions they did. Seeing only the result and judging simply off that. She also lives in such a way that she preaches her nonsense without being criticised by people willing to stand up to her so she gets into a false sense of security that she is right! So when someone better educated and informed tells her otherwise she can't stand to hear the truth. Shameful that people can't see the hero in some through the evil of everyone.
I think you're focusing on one word/ sentence rather than the whole debate which was actual very civil and productive. The fact you focus on this disregards what all 3 very clearly offered a overall balanced view. I think you do yourself a disservice with this comment and focusing on one sentence rather than a balance on the overall debate. And that is why people cannot discuss topics in todays world. Too sensitive on one word or sentence that upsets them and proceed to disregard the entire debate.
You can be BOTH a hero and a villain. Churchill was British and cared about Briton. He is a hero to the British. His policies did lead to death and suffering of millions in Bengal. That is a fact. Bengal was a resource colony and Churchill had a choose. Let the bengals eat their own food, or give it to troops in the war. He was British and he chose his men. That makes sense. It makes sense that bengals see him as a villain and Brits see him as a hero. And that’s fair. No one is liked by everyone.
I would agree but this idea he took the food away from the brown man to give to the white is BS! That food supplied the whole war effort which not only included non white soldiers but many Indian too. That's why it creates this anger from non whites because the history is twisted! They want credit for fighting in the ear which they deserve but at the same time don't want to explain how those people got fed!
The British army had probably 5% white troops and 95% brown and black troops. If you are easily sacrificing men of other countries the least you can do is feed their families. Churchill was a shameless racist hog of resources for his kin and kind without caring for the populace that the British Raj was oppressing
My late Grandad, was a through and through labour man, born in 1929 just before the Wall Street crash. He always used to tell me Churchill as a peace time Prime Minister is up there as one of the worse. With research there is lots to support that argument. However, when I asked him would we have won the war with anyone else, it was a resounding no. I think people tend to forget what exactly was at stake in WW2, and had it gone the other way, a lot of us wouldn’t be on the planet, let alone be allowed to have a voice like we do nowadays. I’m classed as a millennial, and I accept that Churchill was the architect of some truly abhorrent acts. But to use todays views of racism, which I completely agree with, to judge Churchill is wrong. Yes in todays light, what Churchill had said, and done is highly racist. Yet people forget that he was paramount in the defeat and utter destruction of the most racist entity in modern human history, The Third Reich. It is the defining moment in human history.
Why do you think Churchill defeated Hitler alone, without the Russians, there was no way Hitler would have been defeated, also remember that the day ww2 was declared, over 2 million Indians ( mainly Muslims and Sikhs) joined in with war effort.
@@gungarugangatesh1477 You mean the Soviet union, it wasn't just Russia. Also the Soviet union had a pact with Hitler until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back and attacked the Soviet union so Stalin switched sides. What would've happened if Hitler didn't do that ? They wouldn't have got involved, Hitler played himself.
Churchill had his shortcomings. Gallipoli and Dresden are two of many. However, the man was and still is hugely inspirational and intelligent. He is one of the best British PMs in history.
She comes off as quite sanctimonious .... but I'm sure she feels that she's far more virtuous than the other two in the discussion. Nothing like someone who begins a discussion with Piers while looking down her smug arrogant nose. She is a PERFECT representation of so many of her age group. Limited life experience but supremely confident in her virtue.
She's quite pleasant to listen to, even in her smugness. Have you seen the discussions had by the BLM activists in the US? Just shouting and demanding reparations. Nothing of substance at all.
@@datascientist4005 i agree. she is batshit crazy but atleast she isnt a violent radical fascist like we have in the united states. those dogs wont even let you speak.
The fact that she feels the need to comment and “yes!, aha!, hmmmm!” After everything that’s said by the historian annoys the shit out of me. And when he says something she doesn’t like she’s condescending as hell and just starts to raise her voice like that makes her opinions more valid.
I am an immigrant and am grateful for my life in this country. I have lived here for just over 50 years and worked in the NHS until I retired. I simply say to fellow immigrants and and their children who were born and brought up here that no one should bite the hands that feed you. If we are unhappy living here, there is a simple solution. This is a free country and no one will hold a gun to our heads to force us to live here. Don't make your life miserable living here. Go back to your motherland which must be so much better than the UK. Make way for someone who is genuinely loyal to live and contribute to the this community.
As u said u are a immigrant alot are not and u say the hand that feeds u like u don't work for what u got. My family didn't leave the motherland by choice and we use the hands we got to feed us thank you at the same time as paying taxes for the reparations the money given to people that treated my people worse than a chair.
The " hand that feeds you" is not about being given anything free. It is about the opportunity to train, get a job, earn a living, paying my taxes, living in a country that allows many minority groups to take the piss out of white people, hold age old outdated grudges against them and allows the minority groups to cry " foul" and playing the same old record of how bad this country is. Unless you were brought here as a slave, you cannot say you didn't have a choice. If you are here because your country was being destroyed by war, you need to ask why you didn't move to a safe neighbouring country. No one can expect to come to the UK for free. When we choose the UK, we choose to live by the law and contribute to society. Reparations is not being paid to the British white. Reparations should come from the black slave traders who traded their own people for centuries.
@@wleon4068she's so passionate about concentration camps yet focuses on the past rather than the present such as Muslim concentration camps in China, or Chinas operations in South Africa using cheap labour to harvest natural resources, destroying the land and displacing many Africans, a bigger issue, you'll surely agree?
Sorry to the greatest Generation! We owe you everything! Thank you for your service and sacrifice! To think my generation has this view is utterly deplorable and shameful!
You’re clueless mate Churchill unleashed the Black and Tans to Ireland the most hated group of people ever to set foot on Ireland not including the Bengali famine
Look at her. She has been afforded opportunities for self advancement in this country. That's why she stays here. Not bad for a country that's as racist as Britain apparently is.
This black woman just shouts white people are racist and nasty, my reasoning is that people like her don’t understand she is privileged with all the inventions that white peoples has given to people like her
Unfotunately, what a lot of these activists mean by 'I did some research' is that they Googled for twenty minutes around websites written by fellow semi-educated political activists who are totally clueless just like them. It's embarassing that these people have got away with this nonsense for so long. It's good to see them being called out more though.
That would have been a perfect point to make if she was wrong and the noted historian didn’t point out that everything she said was true. I think you should have saved that quip for another activist. - I think you may have misplaced your post 😂
And Google entertains that by adjusting their algorithms to feed those politically biased articles, most of them "opinion articles" to anyone who searches that. Google is so biased in terms of what information they feed to their users.
Moreover. What is the purpose of learning history? Please enlighten us. If people from those hundred years ago are dead, why is he still being admired at all? Can't people who suffered under him feel angry? Should even the youngest Jews of present generation hold respect for Neo Nazis?
You don't know what Black Community has had to go through in those time and still having to go through into days times , the white system is a evil system society mostly aimed at the Black Community but it is evil towards the white Community but not near the same level .
No, your here today because the United States joined WW2 to save Churchill and England from being destroyed and taken over by Hitler if the U.S. didn't join the war. Britain would have had the same fate as France.
She never does, each time I have seen her she has attempted to take over no matter where she is, the debate always comes round to racism, she is so anti-white it is untrue!
I had to turn off while the historian was speaking. She kept poking her views in. Whatever good points she may have brought up, were completely diminished by her arrogant demeanor.
To Graffiti a statue like that is disgusting I am proud to be British seeing this just broke my heart he was a hero I am so grateful for that generation
@@kingglobby4179 She didn't say it directly, but she claimed that killing itself is a "monstrous act". Which means (according to her own mentality) that any soldier in history who committed murder when at war did monstrous things. Personally, I don't quite agree with her on this argument. Killing in itself is an extremely negative thing, but if a soldier on the battlefield shoots the enemy for the purpose of protecting himself and his comrades, and because he is generally tasked with wiping out the evil for which the enemy is fighting for, then I think it is silly to label the soldiers actions as monstrous. Is it really monstrous for a soldier to kill an enemy who practices violence and evil for the purpose of serving a diabolical leader (Hitler, Stalin or others)? Is it really monstrous if a father or mother takes revenge on a person who has deliberately killed their child? Is it absolutely monstrous to wipe out something or someone if what you wipe out poses an eternal and strong threat to everything that is good, just and based on freedom in the world? The only language a true monster speaks, is violence and destruction - so if a good person uses the same language to fight the true monster, is he/she then a monster themself, or just a good person doing what is necessary to defeat the evil that the true monster represents? I wonder what Mrs. Ayton would have said to these specific questions............
What's interesting is she calls out the torturing off the Mau Mau in Kenya (who were burning villagers alive at the time - no mention of that), whilst not condeming him for the Dresden bombing where the bombers brutally burned alive tens of thousands of civillians in a firestorm and was widely considered a warcrime. I think I can guess the reason she doesn't care about the folk in Dresden....
Well very few intelligent people would be prepared to defend his genocide on the Gukhurahundi. He caused massive starvation, deaths from medical care destruction and theft of millions of peoples pension funds. But he hated whites so many would defend him.
What is the point of having a debate with someone like this? Nothing will change her opinions, certainly not facts, as both of her eyes are on one side of her face. He wasn't a monster, he was the man this country needed at that period of history and who was the leader of a generation who, in the main, were all pulling together for a common cause. Unlike this person who only exists to create division. His stubborn, single mindedness kept Germany from our shores. What would he think of this country now, I shudder to think
I think it’s incredibly important to consider the position and the time in which Churchill was placed. For many Churchill was more progressive than his extreme imperial predecessors. Read about his reaction to Horatio Kitchener’s obliteration of the mahdist forces in Sudan. His experience shaped his actions, and although he was by no means perfect (considering the monstrosity committed in Kenya during the 1950s) he brought an overwhelming amount of positives to the world that 13:39 we know today. Without him these sorts of debates would not even be able to take place.
Yeah subhuman had to be sacrificed to that , he was a monster to other and good for the brit, like at least don't idolise like some saint , of course people are pissed when you say that your hero that fed his country from the blood of other is still to this day hailed as hero
I'm an American. My father was a Jew born in Germany in 1940. He read many books and articles on the subject of WWII. He watch numerous documenties. I adopted his interest. I believe Winston Churchill gave the citizens of the UK hope and courage during the war. He was a complicated man. I believe, despite his human flaws, was a good man and a patriot. I often listen to his speeches when I am facing advertises. They give me courage.
Churchill lived a crazy life he was born in the Victorian era and lived through both world wars ... evreything said and done hes definitely played a part in history.
Yep and he killed millions of indians caused famine and called them primitive. Buddy was worse than Hitler even though Hitler is evil, Churchill is horrible.
Thank you. As a 76 year old Irish woman, the only thing for which I'm ashamed of my country is it's neutrality in WW2. I know we put up with terrible cruelty from Britain over the centuries, but Ireland was not only neutral; we harboured Nazi U-boats in our harbours. We were just round the corner from Liverpool for feck's sake!!! I understand this was a way of getting back at Britain for what Britain had done to Ireland; but, in a time of war, threatened by genocidal maniacs? What did the Irish think would happen to them after they'd helped Hitler conquer Britain? I don't care what anyone else thinks of Churchill. He was a man of his era. Ok - an imperialist. But, if it hadn't been for him, the fortunate few of us still alive & not in slave labour, would be speaking German now. One of the most poignant things I ever saw was when I watched the great man's funeral live on TV, when the barge carrying his coffin went down the Thames and all the huge cranes bowed. If any of my countrymen/women are curious about my comments. No, I really am Irish, from the Republic and don't have a drop of English blood.
Totally agree girl I'm republican Irish too even our catholic priests gave safe haven to nazi war criminals I hear Hitlers bloodline lives in Dublin can't be certain of that now @@elizabethmcloughlin1984
@@elizabethmcloughlin1984 I would advise you to revisit history. This lie has been peddled for several years but is completely without foundation. Ireland was neutral during the Second World War. but as has often been said. “it was neutral on the Allies’ side.” For example, Luftwaffe pilots shot down over Ireland were interned for the duration of the war whereas RAF airmen were quietly given a cup of tea and put on the train to Belfast. When war was imminent, De Valera interned pro-German members of the IRA and even had a few of them hanged for pro-German activities such as sabotage. Irish military intelligence kept tabs on Abwehr agents operating in Ireland and shared information with their British counterparts. Similarly, vital weather information was shared with the British. Ground markers were placed in Co. Donegal to guide returning RAF and US aeroplanes home to their bases in Northern Ireland. Taoiseach De Valera arranged for over 100,000 workers to go to England to work in essential industries so that British workers could be freed up for military service. In short, the claim that Ireland allowed U Boats to use Irish ports during the Second World War is utterly false.
Feelings are a CHOICE . you should read Marcus Aurelius. If you’re angry , you choose to be . Emotions are all in your control internally , not external.
@@AverageJoe483 I'd say, feelings are a signal from the brain to 'pay attention, this is important'. What we do with those feelings, how we act because of them is a choice.
I survived WW2 thanks to sir Winston Spencer Churchill and i am 83 years old Thank you Winston you will always be my hero your speech never was so much owed by so many to so few so in 1959 i joined the RAF Go sir Winston Churchill you will always be a British Hero
@@sucaadshardi9650 I’m not sure if any of that what this woman was saying is true or not. I can tell you in the present moment I am in Kenya and I can say the United States has been doing vast amounts of things to help this country.
@@jb-zn7ke I really have no idea what your talking about and to me the past is not important anyway.. there is still currently slaves in West China and slaves in North Africa and so much chaos on the border of the USA and Mexico... I think it is better we focus on fixing the problems now instead of crying about the past and who was right or wrong or whatever.
@jb where on planet earth are you getting your figures no way did France and India make up 60 percentage of troops . And he did not cause famine and British have not caused famines that beyond stupid . People can’t cause natural disasters! That plain and simple ! However they can add to it by slow responses .
@@sueharrison9115 It's simply the act of being conscious (awake) and not fooled by state and societal nonsense. "Staying Woke," the concept and saying, began with Black American blues musicians in the 1930's. You can probably figure out why.
If it was not for Churchill, Brits would be speaking German. Young people should try to understand history from the viewpoint of what the world was like at the time.
Why would Brits be speaking German? It is a cliche I've heard an awful lot but never by anyone whose opinion I find trustworthy. Do you really think the British are so supine that they would give in and speak German? You must't think very highly of the British.
Sir Anthony summed it up perfectly when he said the fact we're even talking about this is because of his actions during WW2, I think that's maybe lost on a lot of people. No one is condoning some of the things that happened, Piers included, but we wouldn't even be debating this in the UK had it not been for Churchill.
Actually that's complete distortion as well. Churchill made a decision to go to war against Germany, but there is no evidence that it was "necessary". There propaganda around the stupidity of the appeasement attempts prior to Churchill is ridiculous, because they were only embarrassing, because it is simply ignored the details he signed, but that increase any threat posed towards the UK. If Churchill had not gained power, you only have to look at Hitler's views and his actions to get the true picture of what would have happened and he didn't even finish off the British expeditionary force when it was trapped on the French beaches, when he had the chance(He let them escape through his respect), precisely because he had no interest in war with Britain, until dragged into it by the time of the Battle of Britain. Hitler in his utter delusion, believing in the Aryan superiority, also believed in the Anglo-Saxon culture and the Italian culture as akin to the Aryan master race, due to their periods of supremacy and Hitler didn't even want to fight the Brits, and did so only because they declared war.If he had won, it's unlikely he would have punnished the British badly and probably would have gone on with his plan to clear living space in the East and things would have been savage and cruel for the slavs and the Russians, but the West wouldn't have suffered greatly, other than what terrible suffering went on while the war was going on. *But even that is irrelevant, because retrospective analysis shows that the Nazis were never going to successfully invade Britain, they would have lost the war in the end, through lack of fuel, it if the Americans didn't turn up, the war would have been lost in the Soviet Union, but the suffering would have been greater and economic consequences worse and it would have taken several more years
She forgets that she wouldn't be even born if not for Churchill, This is why emotions cannot get into geopolitics, sometimes you need to kill a million to save billions.
Churchill enabled the commandos and the SOE-strategic Operations Executive, set up Bletchley park- who broke the enigma code. Churchill understood Hitler, when no one else did, he was needed for that time. Yes he was racist, he was a flawed person.
@@quack437I am not even from Engalnd and I recognize the leadership of this man in ww2. To sum it up when france was about to lose he was pressured from everyone to enter peace talks with hitler,(because invading britain then was seemed very possible and surely coming any day after france) meaning abandoning france, the rest of europe and the world to the nazis.He was the beacon of democracy literally to the world and continuously inspired resistances and free/neutral countries to do their part.The famous speeches gave courage and kept the fight going for many nations.
Martin Luther king Jr. Was homophobic. Mahatma Gandhi was a bigot. Roald Dahl had antisemitic views this does not take away from their contribution to society. Winston Churchill is and will always be one of my heroes.
Am a Kenyan,my mom is Kikuyu,she used to tell us those stories of the camps that were manned by African solders…interesting enough,she and her sisters love the queen and appreciate it was unfair at the time and worse things have happened before and after the fact….seems BLM are instrumental in getting people angry but have no solution🤷🏾♀️
Sir Anthony Seldon comes with a lot of reason, diplomacy and wisdom in this never ending debate. As someone who has Indian roots, born in the UK, I'm getting tired of this debate quite frankly. But I do ask this.. what would accountability look like when the person you are speaking about isn't around anymore? All our heroes have flaws, and many of the people we've labelled villains have good sides too. We are better off for Churchill's leadership. All of us; even those who have deep colonial histories. And to ignore that side to prove a side that shows those flaws of his, is actually doing the exact thing we complain about 'the other side' doing. Let's move forward now, we have a lot going for us so let's build on that.
Great point.. let’s look at the flip side.. The U.K. capitulate, facists take Over Europe, spread to the world, India becomes a Japanese colony, rather than getting freedom from British rule the way the Japanese murdered Andoman islanders
Churchill killed more people in India, than the nazis in europe, by taking Indian grain from India to feed his own, leading them to starve four million people to death. This is why India will not export wheat to western countries, because they will just stock pile it up, and sell it for higher prices when there's a shortage. India said that there top priority for exporting wheat is for for developing countries. Yes im an Indian born in Britain.
13:13 - "Not rushing to condemn other people" such a huge point. It happens far far too often, people jump to conclusions or rush to deal out judgement without pausing and first getting that judgement right.
Actually on the bombing of Dresden, Churchill had it both ways. While permitting saturation bombing on German cities, he was on record as sending a memo to the RAF questioning the choice of city bombed and making it clear that Britain should not be remembered for bombing that could be seen as gratuitous revenge. This is the thing with Churchill, he was a visionary, and also very good at having his cake and eating it.
Not so much a hero as a great leader. If not for his leadership, the war might have turned out very differently. Before WWII, It was his intervention that secured the Royal Navy more money and more ships, which is what saved us too.
You must have read it wrong then, he was the first European to discover the New World, and even that got debunked when they discovered that the Vikings had reached it hundreds of years sooner than Colombo.@@iaintmadatcha
Interesting that Sir Anthony Seldon didn't feel the need to interrupt Imarn Ayton every time she was asked for an opinion... Maybe that was because he was interested in hearing her opinion rather than just blindly forcing his own.
Stupid question !!! Churchill was a racist ! Historically proven .... so why asking the question then??! And he didn’t saved “us” from nazi Germany ....... he send other men fighting against nazi germany for his preservation and of the British EMPIRE (!!) because nazi germany was an expanding EMPIRE ... Also when a hitler was “ just“ a Passant churchil was already in Power and done numerous mosntrous decisions.... in the First world war !!! And before and After .. Só no churchil was no hero at all ... he was a villain !!! And i say this as „ white“ Swiss ( Portuguese) „Male „ .......... And before you acuse me of being „woke“ No im fucking Not !!!! Im Not one of this idiots who thinks only white People can be racist(?? Itself a racist Statement ......) No i dont hate Myself for being white ( its just a skincolor... i was Born with just like the Color of my eyes) I dont like BLM ( or WLM!!) because its a phony Scam ( Black lives only mater to them if the agressor Happens to be white !!! Thats it??!! ) completly in the hands of the democrats( Who is a corrupt Party just like the fucking republicans.....) and the always appear in eléction years... Honestly no one in this debate is Right !! They all say things That are Not True !! But unfortnetly Most People take a side instead of searching for the truth ...
@@robert-uc4mf you’re argument had potential until you mentioned you were a white Portuguese ‘Swiss’…. Then you lost all credibility😂 No one said Churchill was perfect, but to try and overshadow his leadership legacy and achievements with negative aspects of his personality or failures is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by losers who want to rewrite history!
The times were a lot different when churchill was alive. I’m sure the racism was everywhere back then so it wasn’t looked as a bad thing then because people couldn’t think what they’re saying is wrong. Social constructs steer how we people think
@@jjjyli686 - Racism , or to be much more specific - British supremacy (I just made it up. I like it) is something the British ruling class was extremely proud of since they invaded half of the world overseas. Britain is the biggest war criminal, thief and mass murderer in history. But history is written by the winners so most people are under a bizzare spell that the British went around the world and spread goodness and help. Rapists, thieves, murderers. And proud of it. That's the British elites for you.
Seems reasonable but what good was Britain doing in Kenya to do such horrifying things to simple poor people who were only trying to make a good future for themselves and their families, if those Kenyans didn't stand-up for themselves then no black man on earth would have had no official free rights to do or say anything, Churchill was a definite monster.
i will never understand why people who judge history and people's decisions and actions in the past are always oblivious to the fact that they benefit from hindsight.
Churchill never supported freedom. We wanted to grow the British imperial empire. To the opposite he hated freedom. When gandhi was in hunger strike to ask for freedom and rights peacefully and the bengal famine was in its peak Churchill said if everyone is dying in famine then why gandhi is still alive
@okman9684 and what do you think Hitler would have done to the bengal empire had he won the war, that same war Churchill dedicated 24 hours a day if his time to winning. In war there are often hard choices to make, people may not like it but you can thank him for making those choices because if he hadn't and the Germans won, you would not be able to voice opinions like this so easily.
@sadimuntakim4109 want me to tell the rest of the Jewish race that at the same time , 6 million of them died in horrible ways, and had Hitler won the war, there would be none of them left. What ever way you put it, war is awful, and people are often sacrificed for the greater good, Lord knows brotish soldiers were. They were sent to battles we knew they couldn't win just so we could keep the fact we broke the Germans code secret. The fact people like you are winging about it shows you need to look at the bigger picture and grow the hell up.
That woman was not up to debating. She came up against people who were too intelligent for her. We need more of this. Very glad that Piers called her out. She couldn't resist the white slur.
You are so wrong about the female guest, she held her own regarding the subject matter of the monsterous action of Winston Churchill towards Kenyan men having their genitals crushed 7 years after the WAR II. Kudos to her for not being brow beaten by Piers Morgan tactics he so relishes in.
It is the inevitable consequence of the replacement of education by indoctrination, as began some years ago in Britain, and still continues at an increasing pace.
@@Asimmehra Or the 1 person is British and the rest are immigrants. Or half are British and half are immigrants. Or none are immigrants. What does it matter? And miseducated doesn't equate directly to uneducated. You may be miseducated about history, but that doesn't mean you're not educated about math, science, etc.
I would still urge everyone to learn and study the Bengal famine themselves as it wasn't as simple as Piers suggests. The colonial policies played a huge role in the famine reaching the extent it did
Yes it's the classic strawman. "Well he didn't cause the famine", as if Churchill's critics think he was the sole cause of the famine. He wouldn't make the same argument regarding Ireland because British people are much more familiar with Britain's mismanagement of that crisis
maybe India shouldnt have been dependent of another country regardless if it was part of the colony. self sustenance should have been achieved by the time WW2 started.
Churchill weighed the options: 1. Let Japanese rule the South of Asia 2. Let the British rule the South of Asia ... I think, given the policies of imperial Japan, the South-Asians would prefer the British... By far. Churchill made a lot of mistakes though.
@@mysterasuarezgovernment of India at that time was the British government. There was no parliament. The British government was responsible. Fact was they couldn't care less.
Mandela was accused of more than 150 terrorist acts for which the western media said that would justify the death penalty. He pleaded guilty, but was given only life judgement and the SA courts were praised for their leniency.
Hopefully Imarn Ayton learnt something, but from her smug attitude I doubt it. Any research she may have done would appear to have been merely an exercise in cherry picking.
Exactly, I thought this was a reasoned debate. Churchill was a person of his times and no angel by any stretch. He was very much unpopular before the war by the working class, seen as a political opportunist by everyone in parliament but at the time in WW2 he was the perfect man for the job because he saw what was coming. After he was voted out by the country because he was seen by the electorate as not the right man for rebuilding a very damaged country. I have no idea why people are offended why someone of this generation is calling him out for being a racist, he was by any standards of today and so were the average person in the street. Im in my 50s this is not new information. I still think he was a legend, but he was flawed. I think the lady is saying that we should get the full story about him and other people of previous centuries.
LOL. Yeah for once he didn't invite someone on and yell at them, not let them talk and then say, "thanks for your time today" it was very strange actually. I suppose it shows his fear of taking too strong a side on a topic which he is sceptical about being on winning side of the argument but he still gave it a small challenge. Ended up giving her the floor and probably wasn't too happy with the result TBH. It certainly felt out of character for him. Maybe he was thinking that this woman is his match. She had his number from the get go with her whole, I agree with you routine, but here's some facts before you shut me down.
@@justsomeoneinthecommentsse5249 i agree 100%. She managed to single out once again White people, jews etc.. and yet when a white person does it its racist. I find her incredibly racist
@@atta1798 That's like saying do you prefer to be a child rapist, child molester or child murder. None of them were particularly good people. Millions of Indians died for a war that wasn't their own.
Churchill was exactly who was needed at a very critical time. I have great admiration for the man. He was a Soldier, a Statesman, and he loved his country!!
Some of our shortcomings aren’t exporting 70,000 tons of rice out of a famine struck bengal. Curious I never hear this about Stalin… sure he did more to save the world from the nazis than all the rest of the countries combined (3/4 of nazi losses were to the red army) but you obviously don’t hear people going “well the holodomir was just a teensy little character flaw you really have to take the good with the bad”.
The fact that she says in the same conversation "i think him saving us makes him heroic" and also "anyone who kills anyone else is monsterious" lady????!! How do you think he saved us? His military wasnt delivering requests for good vibes.
Back in the day in South Africa when the ANC was fighting against apartheid, there were some pretty atrocious acts committed under Mandela - they had a thing called "necklacing" where they would a put a tire around your neck and set it alight, amongst many other things. This was done all in the name of freedom and fighting against the apartheid government. This is why he was seen as a terrorist. Today he is a respected hero for ending apartheid in South Africa, but that road was paved by doing many monstrous things. You don't achieve something like that by doing "good deeds"
@@sarahtheblue stories like this are common, ideals are peaceful history is violent. People who think the world can run without any negative actions are living in a dream world.
They sent a strongly worded letter and asked him to go to the naughty step and think about his actions. Then someone sent another letter apologising for the tone of the original letter and asking If they'd like to join their antismoking rally,or some such
Sir Anthony seldon was my vice chancellor when at the university of Buckingham, I had the chance to chat with him a couple times. He was very pleasant and is a very very intelligent and accomplished chap. God knows what this lady was thinking willingly going into a debate with him
Ultimately she's bitter that her life is comfortable and with lots of opportunity, because of the British Empire and she CanNot stand that fact. Without that she would be an abused woman somewhere in Africa, where slavery was endemic throughout history, before the Brits ended the slave trade, by persistent enforcement of its abolition, on other nations whilst they were the richest country globally from 1815-1918
Of course you'd say that. If the people of Yorkshire had to suffer a famine due to "decision making" and had a Yorkshire concentration camp where testicles were ripped off. Would you continue to feel the same way that the world is a better place if this hero was to cause this harm on Yorkshire?
He was a drunken fool who iredeemably ruined your nation for the sake of his own vanity but by all means keep beleiving that he saved you from a German invasion (that was completely impossible) if it makes you feel better about your once great nations relegation to utter irelevance.
@@joshuamoher9375 wow if your standers are, one of the most powerful men in the world, who helped win the biggest war of all time is a fool then you must be some man hahah tk a bow lad
@Thunk Junk Well, obviously Hitler. Hitler did the same things Churchill is being accused of doing (albeit on a much bigger scale) all without having the caveat of the fact that he did a lot of good things beforehand. I think the point is, even if Hitler had liberated some 20 Million (or however many) let's say Muslims from fascist labour camps, he would still be considered a monster because of the way he had treated and systematically executed the Jewish. So why not Churchill?
@@ScreenStaticStudiosthen people should stop turning it round and round in a circular argument. Anyone who says Winston Churchill is great, he won world War 2, please also say that he also killed 4 million people from a country in an entirely different continent which is perfectly acceptable collateral to a war.
Smartest person in the debate barely got to talk. Difference between intellect and showmanship.
Okay but what did she say wrong. She defended her points well as piers is a known over talker. She respected the viewpoints of these two and admitted where her info may contain invalidities.
@@tropicalnofruit1419
She blamed Churchill for famine.
Even when given valid argument against it,an argument that might serve as evidence since historical facts can usually be checked
that she seemingly acknowledged,but then decided to ignore.
And blamed everyone else,for all the bad things,as if black people are all gentle flowers and angels that would never ever hurt anyone.
WHEN she involved RACIAL argument,she lost all the credibility in my eyes.
I am a white guy and probably racist
@@GameslordXY fair play shes too woke, but I couldn’t help but think she had good points. Churchills is a hero but that concentration camp shit is wild you can’t deny.
African/white mixed guy whose probably as racist as the next guy.
@@tropicalnofruit1419 but u have to acknowledge that coming in a debate and mentioning a horrific event and pointing fingers and say “this man’s actions potentially caused this event” any action from a leader in a time of crisis could cause consequences if the opposite action was not taken. Her stance on this was disingenuous at best and she should not have mentioned it if her defense on it was that he potentially caused it.
@@visiionz_6699 okay but I think your underplaying how much the guy might have had a role in it. Yes piers completely brushed it off but I looked it up and he did completely abandon the people during this and I’m not surprised as he said he saw Indians as “beastly people” so yes typhoon caused it but Churchill had the opportunity to help and didn’t. So she was kinda right anyway but just didn’t phrase it descriptively enough. Churchill = racist hero 🦸♂️
That historian is the perfect example of someone not having a biased view or a one sided argument but to acknowledge the good and the bad and not to get offended by it all but to talk about what is important which is to learn from history and to try and build bridges to come together what a guy 🙏👏
He is wonderful
Correct, seemed lost on the BLM activist who came across as extremely patronizing and very selective with her take on Churchill, only researched him after the BLM protests in 2020. As someone else said if it were not for Churchill, many of us, including her would not be here today.
I wonder how this activist would go living under a f@scist Eur0pean empir3. He should be thankful for Winston Churchill.
@Uzi Khan Very easily. Because I am responsible for balancing two things. Living here and a past that cannot be changed. What do you want done from this issue of Churchill’s racism? In practical terms?
@Uzi Khan XD funny sarcasm
Oh God she's shooting her mouth off again I'm off.....
😂
I dont like her
"God this women could start a argument on her own in a phone box". !!!! 🤣😅😁
What have you against a great English icon the phone box I mean not that vile woman she should be deported
Yes when you tell the truth it sets fire to the pants of liars. 🤥🔥
Kin ejit look in the mirror lady n get it off y lap
😂😂😂😂
@@africanqueen1655the truth is usually more complex and has many aspects rather than this binary moralising the young folk go in for. It's ironic how so many will claim to be "non-binary" in gender politics but are totally and very crudely binary in politics and discussions of history. The view of discussions as something you win rather than learn from is also symptomatic of a generation raised on too many video games and the enforced decontextualised glibness of Twitter and other social media. Congratulations! You won the game! Your prize is crudity, ignorance, incomprehension and more empty headed conflict!
That's not a useful approach to discussion imho. The prize is not appealing.
I love the fact that this historian is completely unbiased and giving fantastic facts.
He was scared to get knocked the fk out lol
Here-Here
It’s taken long enough to find/see a decent historian but it truly was refreshing to see. He is a person that deserves looking into given how balanced he was. - I’m still in shock to be honest; I wasn’t expecting that at all. It’s shame morgan had to spoil it all with his contrary nonsense but I expected that.
🤣
@@HustleNGrow331 by who? The skinny woman?
Good lord and your point is ? Every leader made mistakes whats the point in raking over old coals all it will do is cause division he saved this country thats a fact the world was a different place in his time people need to wake up to that fact
‘To give young people the evidence on both sides, I’ll let them come to their own judgement’ - a non biased historian.
We need more of this
...and Obama built the cages.... I just wish people will bring all the same energy for everyone
We must realize that running a country is like running a gang...and gang leaders do monstrous things. Sometimes on behalf of the people they lead and sometimes on behalf of their prejudice.
Well what was it tom Mcdonald said about cages and tiny phone screens 🤔
😏😏 defending churchill in case of india (👍) (it is obvious British will defend) keep defending (keep hiding from your young brits we will keep reminding) 😏🙏🏼
@@Please_domesticat_pet and that solves what exactly..
Woman calling someone a racist when she is clearly a racist too
Yes strangely when it come to diabolize Nelson Mandela she start speaking Chinese
Go away rudest woman
How is she racist?
No
You do realise that you just agreed with her.
That chip on her shoulder must give her terrible backache, get over yourself
churchill was racist monster who cares
My god I read backache as something else 😂.
I so wish Douglas Murray had debated this woman. He would have done a far better job of it.
Douglas ❤
Agreed!!!!
She wouldn't have stood a chance!
Someone need to set up that debate!
@@granthenderson696she would soil something.
This discussion was actually far more civil than I expected it to be
However, pointing fingers and waiving your hands in front of other people's face, and laughing to their face, is not so civil, is it? its very annoying.
@@Cobalt1520 Like I said, it was more civil than I expected. I didn't say it was the perfect example of "civil" did I? Also, I wouldn't class it as the best example of "un-civil", because pointing/waving your arms is, like you cleverly pointed out, is just a bit annoying.
@@RobertBoyle11 Yes it was more civil than potentially expected, but only because our standards have become very low, whenever these kinds of topics are discussed. The question is why we expect these discussions not to be so civil.
@@Cobalt1520 For me ... Peirce Morgan, that was why I expected it to be chaos.
Passive aggressive more like
The historian is so patient. He stayed silent while she was talking, but when it was his turn, she wouldn't shut up.
cause the old fart was waffling nonsense thats why.
Typical narcissistic modern woman
This is simply because people like this woman are sheltered to true history and the general picture of why people made the decisions they did. Seeing only the result and judging simply off that. She also lives in such a way that she preaches her nonsense without being criticised by people willing to stand up to her so she gets into a false sense of security that she is right! So when someone better educated and informed tells her otherwise she can't stand to hear the truth.
Shameful that people can't see the hero in some through the evil of everyone.
@@amandarhodes4072 you do realize than churchill was sa racist and killed more people than Hitler right?
@@kenwkls6392 HE was not
She is doing her best to keep racism in her narrative…and there’s a dodgy and flimsy feel to her actual knowledge.
@angharacho. Spot on there,Impossible to debate with such people,anti with everything. but herself.
Let’s just cut to the chase, she’s absolutely full of shit.👍🏻
when you're talking about history then racism is imbedded in everything.
If she can’t find any racism she’s out of a job, so she has to drag it up from the past to keep her job going.
Who is this rude, arrogant piece of work anyway and why is she given so much air time???? If we are that bad why is she here??
As soon as she said "white people's feelings" it sumed up her argument perfectly
I think you're focusing on one word/ sentence rather than the whole debate which was actual very civil and productive. The fact you focus on this disregards what all 3 very clearly offered a overall balanced view. I think you do yourself a disservice with this comment and focusing on one sentence rather than a balance on the overall debate. And that is why people cannot discuss topics in todays world. Too sensitive on one word or sentence that upsets them and proceed to disregard the entire debate.
I’m sure the 2+ billion Chinese and Indians are very happy that Japan lost WWII. What about their feelings?
@@theonlylordoflight5101 black people can't debate, they are too emotional.
True….her mask slipped and her true self was revealed.
@@theonlylordoflight5101 usually when someone makes a racist remark that ruins your impression of them. Unless racism is excusable?
You can be BOTH a hero and a villain. Churchill was British and cared about Briton. He is a hero to the British. His policies did lead to death and suffering of millions in Bengal. That is a fact. Bengal was a resource colony and Churchill had a choose. Let the bengals eat their own food, or give it to troops in the war. He was British and he chose his men. That makes sense. It makes sense that bengals see him as a villain and Brits see him as a hero. And that’s fair. No one is liked by everyone.
I would agree but this idea he took the food away from the brown man to give to the white is BS! That food supplied the whole war effort which not only included non white soldiers but many Indian too.
That's why it creates this anger from non whites because the history is twisted! They want credit for fighting in the ear which they deserve but at the same time don't want to explain how those people got fed!
True shit 💯
The British army had probably 5% white troops and 95% brown and black troops. If you are easily sacrificing men of other countries the least you can do is feed their families. Churchill was a shameless racist hog of resources for his kin and kind without caring for the populace that the British Raj was oppressing
It’s like saying that hitler was a hero for the germans but a villain for the rest of the world..
@@alifalif179 ur a clown
My late Grandad, was a through and through labour man, born in 1929 just before the Wall Street crash. He always used to tell me Churchill as a peace time Prime Minister is up there as one of the worse. With research there is lots to support that argument. However, when I asked him would we have won the war with anyone else, it was a resounding no. I think people tend to forget what exactly was at stake in WW2, and had it gone the other way, a lot of us wouldn’t be on the planet, let alone be allowed to have a voice like we do nowadays. I’m classed as a millennial, and I accept that Churchill was the architect of some truly abhorrent acts. But to use todays views of racism, which I completely agree with, to judge Churchill is wrong. Yes in todays light, what Churchill had said, and done is highly racist. Yet people forget that he was paramount in the defeat and utter destruction of the most racist entity in modern human history, The Third Reich. It is the defining moment in human history.
Why do you think Churchill defeated Hitler alone, without the Russians, there was no way Hitler would have been defeated, also remember that the day ww2 was declared, over 2 million Indians ( mainly Muslims and Sikhs) joined in with war effort.
@@gungarugangatesh1477 You mean the Soviet union, it wasn't just Russia.
Also the Soviet union had a pact with Hitler until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back and attacked the Soviet union so Stalin switched sides.
What would've happened if Hitler didn't do that ? They wouldn't have got involved, Hitler played himself.
@@gungarugangatesh1477 Don't forget it was Germany AND the Soviet union who invaded Poland.
She had such a good point until she said 'white people'. Then she lost me. And I'm saying that as a black guy.
She made some fantastic points. And im saying that as a white guy
@@adgepeterb She certainly did but her racism has made everything else null and void for me. Ironically her argument against Churchill
I agree with you 100%... so tired of being divided by race!
She never had good point, Churchill served his people,,, yes it might be immoral and inhuman,,, but he served his own people
@@catcoffee7958 Hitler served his own people, does that make it okay?
Churchill had his shortcomings. Gallipoli and Dresden are two of many. However, the man was and still is hugely inspirational and intelligent. He is one of the best British PMs in history.
Churchill is a mass murderer who is responsible for millions of deaths in India
Agreed, he was a great war leader, right man in right place at right time.
He was an arrogant,white supremacy advocate,committed genocide in africa ,india and other colonies.Deserves to be condemned rather than lionised
That woman loves the sound of her own voice.
She's the only one.
Morgan loves the sound of his own voice far more.
@@joebish6629 Well, he IS the host.
You are white I assume?
@@thesaintst1851 Why does it matter? Embarrassing
If she thinks Churchill was bad wait until she hears about the other guy.
Best comment
HAHAHAHAHA
If only you knew the truth silly person
Which one? The first guy or the second guy after WW2? Either way, Churchill is a saint to me compared to them
She'd probably love him
She comes off as quite sanctimonious .... but I'm sure she feels that she's far more virtuous than the other two in the discussion. Nothing like someone who begins a discussion with Piers while looking down her smug arrogant nose. She is a PERFECT representation of so many of her age group. Limited life experience but supremely confident in her virtue.
a virtue they dont actually possess.
@@jjjj-cy3vz When you make your own facts, you are as virtuous as you want.
True
She's quite pleasant to listen to, even in her smugness. Have you seen the discussions had by the BLM activists in the US? Just shouting and demanding reparations. Nothing of substance at all.
@@datascientist4005 i agree. she is batshit crazy but atleast she isnt a violent radical fascist like we have in the united states. those dogs wont even let you speak.
BLM here in the US means, "Buy Luxury Mansions"
🤣🤣👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
🤣😂👍👍🇬🇧
Are you sure it isnt f everybody?
So true scumbags
I thought it meant: Black Lives Matter.
The fact that she feels the need to comment and “yes!, aha!, hmmmm!” After everything that’s said by the historian annoys the shit out of me. And when he says something she doesn’t like she’s condescending as hell and just starts to raise her voice like that makes her opinions more valid.
Good luck having an intelligent discussion with most anyone representing BLM.
I noticed since the first 30 seconds that would be that way. You can notice it in her eyes/look when Pierces starts talking. Since the beginning.
Yes! Agro
BLACK LIES MATTER
Classic attention seeking
I am an immigrant and am grateful for my life in this country. I have lived here for just over 50 years and worked in the NHS until I retired. I simply say to fellow immigrants and and their children who were born and brought up here that no one should bite the hands that feed you. If we are unhappy living here, there is a simple solution. This is a free country and no one will hold a gun to our heads to force us to live here. Don't make your life miserable living here. Go back to your motherland which must be so much better than the UK. Make way for someone who is genuinely loyal to live and contribute to the this community.
As u said u are a immigrant alot are not and u say the hand that feeds u like u don't work for what u got. My family didn't leave the motherland by choice and we use the hands we got to feed us thank you at the same time as paying taxes for the reparations the money given to people that treated my people worse than a chair.
Well said
The " hand that feeds you" is not about being given anything free. It is about the opportunity to train, get a job, earn a living, paying my taxes, living in a country that allows many minority groups to take the piss out of white people, hold age old outdated grudges against them and allows the minority groups to cry " foul" and playing the same old record of how bad this country is. Unless you were brought here as a slave, you cannot say you didn't have a choice. If you are here because your country was being destroyed by war, you need to ask why you didn't move to a safe neighbouring country. No one can expect to come to the UK for free. When we choose the UK, we choose to live by the law and contribute to society. Reparations is not being paid to the British white. Reparations should come from the black slave traders who traded their own people for centuries.
Precicely my point! What is this woman's point??? They can always move.
What a lovely reply ..if everyine had yoyr attutude we would live in peace
Her emotions dumb her down, she isn't so clear & concise the more she rambles on.
God this women could start a argument on her own in a phone box.
She is a hypocrite, claiming she "understand" it's balanced but also hyper accentuate the "monstrous" part of Churchill...
Super manipulative
Very annoying woman, she really loves her own voice.
@@ghhnnn2456 psychology is pure malarkey
Why? Hit home has she?
@@wleon4068she's so passionate about concentration camps yet focuses on the past rather than the present such as Muslim concentration camps in China, or Chinas operations in South Africa using cheap labour to harvest natural resources, destroying the land and displacing many Africans, a bigger issue, you'll surely agree?
Imagine holding the colour of your skin as the whole meaning of your identity. So sad.
Thats deep actually
@@Jaaammmbbbooo I guess you are a Caucasian, trying to get out of your guilty Zone 😁😁😁 It won't work 😁😁😁
LGBTQ+ community do that too
Sorry to the greatest Generation! We owe you everything! Thank you for your service and sacrifice! To think my generation has this view is utterly deplorable and shameful!
they sacrificed their lives so their future grandchildren could get raped and killed in broad daylight by foreigners
You’re clueless mate Churchill unleashed the Black and Tans to Ireland the most hated group of people ever to set foot on Ireland not including the Bengali famine
We do they remain in this country if they hate it so much ??
We ask the same here in America.
Look at her. She has been afforded opportunities for self advancement in this country. That's why she stays here. Not bad for a country that's as racist as Britain apparently is.
This black woman just shouts white people are racist and nasty, my reasoning is that people like her don’t understand she is privileged with all the inventions that white peoples has given to people like her
@@variaxi935difference is who are you to ask the same in USA? You are not indigenous
I would pay her airfare back to Africa
Unfotunately, what a lot of these activists mean by 'I did some research' is that they Googled for twenty minutes around websites written by fellow semi-educated political activists who are totally clueless just like them. It's embarassing that these people have got away with this nonsense for so long. It's good to see them being called out more though.
That would have been a perfect point to make if she was wrong and the noted historian didn’t point out that everything she said was true. I think you should have saved that quip for another activist. - I think you may have misplaced your post 😂
@@registame2878 That's not quite what he said though.
@@flabbybum9562 what exactly did you you hear him say and think he meant?
Not even that amount of effort was involved. They probably just read some celebrity's Instagram story.
And Google entertains that by adjusting their algorithms to feed those politically biased articles, most of them "opinion articles" to anyone who searches that. Google is so biased in terms of what information they feed to their users.
My favourite quote is from Daryl Davis “if your gonna talk about history you have to talk about the good the bad and the ugly”
Great Film.
We spend all this time worrying & labeling people from hundreds of years ago and ignore the corruption that our politicians take part in today
Hundreds of years? He died in 1965. There are many people still alive today that live with the consequences of his actions. Hence the debate
Moreover. What is the purpose of learning history? Please enlighten us. If people from those hundred years ago are dead, why is he still being admired at all? Can't people who suffered under him feel angry? Should even the youngest Jews of present generation hold respect for Neo Nazis?
Without Sir Winston , she would not be able to pout her poisonous envy .
She wasn’t there. She had no idea what people went through.
She is a right Hoorah Henry ...she is out of the British system....
@@heatheryearwood9199plain ignorant.
You don't know what Black Community has had to go through in those time and still having to go through into days times , the white system is a evil system society mostly aimed at the Black Community but it is evil towards the white Community but not near the same level .
Agree
wow, she's been studying Churchhill for a couple years! What an expert!
How long does it take to learn that the man was a monster?
That's long enough to learn all you need to know. Unless you're very slow...
@@powpow9560 Well to sum it all up, as Biden said 10 days ago--"God save the Queen!"
@markbujdos584 the queen is dead and burning in hell
@@markbujdos584What the hell has "God save the queen" got to do with this debate? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Very important! I salute those that overcame extraordinary difficulties and insurmountable odds.
I've never known a perfect leader but I'm here to day because of Churchill and my grandparents and all the people of the uk
No, your here today because the United States joined WW2 to save Churchill and England from being destroyed and taken over by Hitler if the U.S. didn't join the war. Britain would have had the same fate as France.
Without that man none of these people would be free to debate any of this
You mean the man who put Gandhi in jail because he asked peacefully freedom for his people?
You are now on a level where many cannot reach.
Delusional demons
Useless discussion, nothing else to do?
Why digging up history that cannot be changed?
There's more important things in front of us....
They forget that
Why isn’t she letting the historian explain himself?
Because he is right.
Thats what they do.
Because he is white
She never does, each time I have seen her she has attempted to take over no matter where she is, the debate always comes round to racism, she is so anti-white it is untrue!
I love her “pretending to listen” face lol
Shelfish ignorant by the looks of her face.
I had to turn off while the historian was speaking. She kept poking her views in. Whatever good points she may have brought up, were completely diminished by her arrogant demeanor.
Awww! did she offend your terrorist?
@@poopoppy or maybe you dont want to listen because it doesn’t fit your narrative
@@poopoppy But you were fine with Piers doing exactly the same to her... Interesting... sounds like you're blinded by your own ignorance
To Graffiti a statue like that is disgusting I am proud to be British seeing this just broke my heart he was a hero I am so grateful for that generation
She's calling every veteran who's ever served monsterous. Silly woman.
But she literally didn't
@@kingglobby4179 11:00
@@kingglobby4179literally didn't or didn't?
@@kieronjohn6334 I mean she just straight up didn't say it
@@kingglobby4179 She didn't say it directly, but she claimed that killing itself is a "monstrous act". Which means (according to her own mentality) that any soldier in history who committed murder when at war did monstrous things.
Personally, I don't quite agree with her on this argument.
Killing in itself is an extremely negative thing, but if a soldier on the battlefield shoots the enemy for the purpose of protecting himself and his comrades, and because he is generally tasked with wiping out the evil for which the enemy is fighting for, then I think it is silly to label the soldiers actions as monstrous.
Is it really monstrous for a soldier to kill an enemy who practices violence and evil for the purpose of serving a diabolical leader (Hitler, Stalin or others)?
Is it really monstrous if a father or mother takes revenge on a person who has deliberately killed their child?
Is it absolutely monstrous to wipe out something or someone if what you wipe out poses an eternal and strong threat to everything that is good, just and based on freedom in the world?
The only language a true monster speaks, is violence and destruction - so if a good person uses the same language to fight the true monster, is he/she then a monster themself, or just a good person doing what is necessary to defeat the evil that the true monster represents?
I wonder what Mrs. Ayton would have said to these specific questions............
It’s a shame Churchill’s critics didn’t get to experience the alternative.
What's interesting is she calls out the torturing off the Mau Mau in Kenya (who were burning villagers alive at the time - no mention of that), whilst not condeming him for the Dresden bombing where the bombers brutally burned alive tens of thousands of civillians in a firestorm and was widely considered a warcrime. I think I can guess the reason she doesn't care about the folk in Dresden....
@@gwyn111 most people only give a shit about those who are like them anyway...
People always refer to the war. But what about the Bengal famine, what about his racist view on Indians.... we’ll just ignore all that then
@@pisstakecentral the argument was about if he was racist or not, discrimination by a white guy of Germans is xenophobia, not racism
@@designatedpiledriver8216 no but why don't you explain about the Bengal famine then
why doesnt she talk about robert mugabe?
Well very few intelligent people would be prepared to defend his genocide on the Gukhurahundi. He caused massive starvation, deaths from medical care destruction and theft of millions of peoples pension funds. But he hated whites so many would defend him.
Because Churchill was EVIL, President Mugabe was a Revolutionary. 🙏🏿🙌🏾
Why would she
@@hider23232Exactly he was responding to Barbaric European Colonialism. 🙏🏿🙌🏾
I understand your point. it's stupid but I get it. But even then you understand robert was a horrible person and you find him comparable.
She almost spits the word white people out of her mouth
What is the point of having a debate with someone like this? Nothing will change her opinions, certainly not facts, as both of her eyes are on one side of her face. He wasn't a monster, he was the man this country needed at that period of history and who was the leader of a generation who, in the main, were all pulling together for a common cause. Unlike this person who only exists to create division.
His stubborn, single mindedness kept Germany from our shores. What would he think of this country now, I shudder to think
What are facts may I ask. As I see it's the west who are not ready to take facts and stats of inhuman treatment to the east.
I think it’s incredibly important to consider the position and the time in which Churchill was placed. For many Churchill was more progressive than his extreme imperial predecessors. Read about his reaction to Horatio Kitchener’s obliteration of the mahdist forces in Sudan. His experience shaped his actions, and although he was by no means perfect (considering the monstrosity committed in Kenya during the 1950s) he brought an overwhelming amount of positives to the world that 13:39 we know today. Without him these sorts of debates would not even be able to take place.
Yeah subhuman had to be sacrificed to that , he was a monster to other and good for the brit, like at least don't idolise like some saint , of course people are pissed when you say that your hero that fed his country from the blood of other is still to this day hailed as hero
And if Hiller had won -you would definitely not be having this conversation.
Churchill led the country to victory, but people forget that
@@weaponizedknight7316Russian and American did
@@angadgrewal7182 What?
How true
I'm an American. My father was a Jew born in Germany in 1940. He read many books and articles on the subject of WWII. He watch numerous documenties. I adopted his interest. I believe Winston Churchill gave the citizens of the UK hope and courage during the war. He was a complicated man. I believe, despite his human flaws, was a good man and a patriot. I often listen to his speeches when I am facing advertises. They give me courage.
Great comment there, thank you!
Churchill lived a crazy life he was born in the Victorian era and lived through both world wars ... evreything said and done hes definitely played a part in history.
Yep and he killed millions of indians caused famine and called them primitive. Buddy was worse than Hitler even though Hitler is evil, Churchill is horrible.
Mother was an American socialite with quite a reputation
His paternal ancestry goes back to Duke of Marlborough himself
From Portugal: Churchill is a fucking HERO
Thank you. As a 76 year old Irish woman, the only thing for which I'm ashamed of my country is it's neutrality in WW2. I know we put up with terrible cruelty from Britain over the centuries, but Ireland was not only neutral; we harboured Nazi U-boats in our harbours. We were just round the corner from Liverpool for feck's sake!!! I understand this was a way of getting back at Britain for what Britain had done to Ireland; but, in a time of war, threatened by genocidal maniacs? What did the Irish think would happen to them after they'd helped Hitler conquer Britain? I don't care what anyone else thinks of Churchill. He was a man of his era. Ok - an imperialist. But, if it hadn't been for him, the fortunate few of us still alive & not in slave labour, would be speaking German now. One of the most poignant things I ever saw was when I watched the great man's funeral live on TV, when the barge carrying his coffin went down the Thames and all the huge cranes bowed. If any of my countrymen/women are curious about my comments. No, I really am Irish, from the Republic and don't have a drop of English blood.
Totally agree girl I'm republican Irish too even our catholic priests gave safe haven to nazi war criminals I hear Hitlers bloodline lives in Dublin can't be certain of that now @@elizabethmcloughlin1984
@@elizabethmcloughlin1984 I would advise you to revisit history. This lie has been peddled for several years but is completely without foundation. Ireland was neutral during the Second World War. but as has often been said. “it was neutral on the Allies’ side.” For example, Luftwaffe pilots shot down over Ireland were interned for the duration of the war whereas RAF airmen were quietly given a cup of tea and put on the train to Belfast. When war was imminent, De Valera interned pro-German members of the IRA and even had a few of them hanged for pro-German activities such as sabotage. Irish military intelligence kept tabs on Abwehr agents operating in Ireland and shared information with their British counterparts. Similarly, vital weather information was shared with the British. Ground markers were placed in Co. Donegal to guide returning RAF and US aeroplanes home to their bases in Northern Ireland. Taoiseach De Valera arranged for over 100,000 workers to go to England to work in essential industries so that British workers could be freed up for military service.
In short, the claim that Ireland allowed U Boats to use Irish ports during the Second World War is utterly false.
Why is he?
He was a psycho as much as Hitler was
portugal also evil colonialist country with tons of monsters. they did way worse than churchill.
It must hurt a lot to smile and boil deep inside at the same time...
What do you mean? (slowly tilts head)
there's so much pain and constraint behind her smile.
Feelings are a CHOICE . you should read Marcus Aurelius. If you’re angry , you choose to be . Emotions are all in your control internally , not external.
@@rusgrant Who was smiling and boiling at the same time? (Rotates head 360 degrees and vomits)
@@AverageJoe483 I'd say, feelings are a signal from the brain to 'pay attention, this is important'. What we do with those feelings, how we act because of them is a choice.
I survived WW2 thanks to sir Winston Spencer Churchill and i am 83 years old Thank you Winston you will always be my hero your speech never was so much owed by so many to so few so in 1959 i joined the RAF Go sir Winston Churchill you will always be a British Hero
Self righteous people are often not self aware people. Everything is always some one else's fault.
It's nothing to do with self righteousness it's history, the good and the bad
@@sucaadshardi9650 I’m not sure if any of that what this woman was saying is true or not. I can tell you in the present moment I am in Kenya and I can say the United States has been doing vast amounts of things to help this country.
@@jb-zn7ke I really have no idea what your talking about and to me the past is not important anyway.. there is still currently slaves in West China and slaves in North Africa and so much chaos on the border of the USA and Mexico... I think it is better we focus on fixing the problems now instead of crying about the past and who was right or wrong or whatever.
@@jb-zn7ke not the first famine the brits have caused.
@jb where on planet earth are you getting your figures no way did France and India make up 60 percentage of troops . And he did not cause famine and British have not caused famines that beyond stupid . People can’t cause natural disasters! That plain and simple ! However they can add to it by slow responses .
Wokeness destroys mind,body and soul 😢
Please explain what wokeness is please!
@@sueharrison9115 Today's society😂
No. It destroys your trash heroes.
@@sueharrison9115 It's simply the act of being conscious (awake) and not fooled by state and societal nonsense. "Staying Woke," the concept and saying, began with Black American blues musicians in the 1930's. You can probably figure out why.
@@sueharrison9115 just go
God she absolutely loves herself doesn't she
Lol. And you don't?
@ReiN What are you implying here?
she knows her history unlike you
She's black, of course she does.
Lol that’s how anybody would sound when they feel like they got the other person dead to rights
How dare she criticise Sir Winston Churchill.
Lmao
Agree 4me rule 303
She is a race baiter Simples needs to take a proper history lesson why she is given air time is beyond me
Churchill should be critized. Not for his racial stances but under his leadership the British Empire came to an end.
She part of BLM,a corrupt organisation and she has the ordasity to criticise Churchill
If it was not for Churchill, Brits would be speaking German. Young people should try to understand history from the viewpoint of what the world was like at the time.
Churchill staved 5 million people in Bengal
Ah yes, because all of our government and military would have collapsed without a narcoleptic alcoholic at its head
That maybe but does that mean he was a good person
Why would Brits be speaking German? It is a cliche I've heard an awful lot but never by anyone whose opinion I find trustworthy.
Do you really think the British are so supine that they would give in and speak German? You must't think very highly of the British.
If ‚Brits‘ would be speaking German then they would have great words like Vergangenheitsbewältigung in their vocabulary.
Sir Anthony summed it up perfectly when he said the fact we're even talking about this is because of his actions during WW2, I think that's maybe lost on a lot of people. No one is condoning some of the things that happened, Piers included, but we wouldn't even be debating this in the UK had it not been for Churchill.
Actually that's complete distortion as well. Churchill made a decision to go to war against Germany, but there is no evidence that it was "necessary". There propaganda around the stupidity of the appeasement attempts prior to Churchill is ridiculous, because they were only embarrassing, because it is simply ignored the details he signed, but that increase any threat posed towards the UK.
If Churchill had not gained power, you only have to look at Hitler's views and his actions to get the true picture of what would have happened and he didn't even finish off the British expeditionary force when it was trapped on the French beaches, when he had the chance(He let them escape through his respect), precisely because he had no interest in war with Britain, until dragged into it by the time of the Battle of Britain. Hitler in his utter delusion, believing in the Aryan superiority, also believed in the Anglo-Saxon culture and the Italian culture as akin to the Aryan master race, due to their periods of supremacy and Hitler didn't even want to fight the Brits, and did so only because they declared war.If he had won, it's unlikely he would have punnished the British badly and probably would have gone on with his plan to clear living space in the East and things would have been savage and cruel for the slavs and the Russians, but the West wouldn't have suffered greatly, other than what terrible suffering went on while the war was going on.
*But even that is irrelevant, because retrospective analysis shows that the Nazis were never going to successfully invade Britain, they would have lost the war in the end, through lack of fuel, it if the Americans didn't turn up, the war would have been lost in the Soviet Union, but the suffering would have been greater and economic consequences worse and it would have taken several more years
She forgets that she wouldn't be even born if not for Churchill,
This is why emotions cannot get into geopolitics, sometimes you need to kill a million to save billions.
What actions exactly i dont recall Churchill doing any of the fighting
Churchill enabled the commandos and the SOE-strategic Operations Executive, set up Bletchley park- who broke the enigma code. Churchill understood Hitler, when no one else did, he was needed for that time. Yes he was racist, he was a flawed person.
@@quack437I am not even from Engalnd and I recognize the leadership of this man in ww2. To sum it up when france was about to lose he was pressured from everyone to enter peace talks with hitler,(because invading britain then was seemed very possible and surely coming any day after france) meaning abandoning france, the rest of europe and the world to the nazis.He was the beacon of democracy literally to the world and continuously inspired resistances and free/neutral countries to do their part.The famous speeches gave courage and kept the fight going for many nations.
*Did Churchill ever thank USA for saving Britain?* 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nope,... he was a hog
"History will treat me kindly, for I intend to write it." - Churchill
What has that quote got to do with provoking racial conflict in 2022?
@@box1007 use your imagination, doof
It won't.... He was a fuc**ng murderer
@@box1007 he didn't end up writing it and his crimes got exposed.
“The victors write history”
when she said "white people" you know her deep dark feelings for them. She lost me there
Nah she's just stating facts. You act like all white people don't say "black people" you hypocrites amaze me
The difference is that she can say it out loud and in public with no consequence.
@@DMVAkademiks_ are you joking ? Black people bring up race in absolutely everything
@@zees9444 Talk about missing the point because you are desperate to say something ignorant.
Let's just call her out.. she is racist
The loudest person in the room is often the most stupid she proved the point
But bro, it was "7 YEARS!"
better then staying quite like the ET next to her
What did she say that was stupid.? If you’re going to make that statement please give us a reason why, otherwise it seems like you’re just butt hurt
My gran had many saying one of which is...'an empty can makes the most noise'.
‘I believe in balance’ as she interrupts constantly 😂😂
Martin Luther king Jr. Was homophobic. Mahatma Gandhi was a bigot. Roald Dahl had antisemitic views this does not take away from their contribution to society. Winston Churchill is and will always be one of my heroes.
might be your hero but a monster to most of the world
Am a Kenyan,my mom is Kikuyu,she used to tell us those stories of the camps that were manned by African solders…interesting enough,she and her sisters love the queen and appreciate it was unfair at the time and worse things have happened before and after the fact….seems BLM are instrumental in getting people angry but have no solution🤷🏾♀️
Mrs Winnie Mandela was not all sweetness and light if I remember well...
Asseblief stomping aupporter
This is the calmest debate I've ever seen piers have 🤣
He had to be due to the nature of the topic.
It’s cos he is wrong
@@ikennauchendu7624 Marxism is good?
See the one with Richard Dawkins
Should watch his interview with former President Trump. He had to apologize, said "sorry" 😂😅
Sir Anthony Seldon comes with a lot of reason, diplomacy and wisdom in this never ending debate. As someone who has Indian roots, born in the UK, I'm getting tired of this debate quite frankly. But I do ask this.. what would accountability look like when the person you are speaking about isn't around anymore? All our heroes have flaws, and many of the people we've labelled villains have good sides too. We are better off for Churchill's leadership. All of us; even those who have deep colonial histories. And to ignore that side to prove a side that shows those flaws of his, is actually doing the exact thing we complain about 'the other side' doing. Let's move forward now, we have a lot going for us so let's build on that.
Your English
@@SCrEenNaMe-i9h British. English is an ethnicity.
Great point.. let’s look at the flip side.. The U.K. capitulate, facists take Over Europe, spread to the world, India becomes a Japanese colony, rather than getting freedom from British rule the way the Japanese murdered Andoman islanders
@@eldictator1 capitulates to who? The left..
Churchill killed more people in India, than the nazis in europe, by taking Indian grain from India to feed his own, leading them to starve four million people to death. This is why India will not export wheat to western countries, because they will just stock pile it up, and sell it for higher prices when there's a shortage. India said that there top priority for exporting wheat is for for developing countries. Yes im an Indian born in Britain.
13:13 - "Not rushing to condemn other people" such a huge point. It happens far far too often, people jump to conclusions or rush to deal out judgement without pausing and first getting that judgement right.
Actually on the bombing of Dresden, Churchill had it both ways. While permitting saturation bombing on German cities, he was on record as sending a memo to the RAF questioning the choice of city bombed and making it clear that Britain should not be remembered for bombing that could be seen as gratuitous revenge. This is the thing with Churchill, he was a visionary, and also very good at having his cake and eating it.
The stench of narcissism and self-entitlement coming from that woman is overpowering.
How?
Said a white man 🤣🤣🤣
Blacks can’t be racist hahaha pathetic little fool Churchill is the man
@@skud187 What's skin colour got to do with it? Racist prick
In my experience I find anyone involved in BLM and who believes in CRT to be narcissistic and self- entitled
As an American, I was taught Churchill was a hero.
He was! he saved Grt Britain from Hitler.
Not so much a hero as a great leader. If not for his leadership, the war might have turned out very differently. Before WWII, It was his intervention that secured the Royal Navy more money and more ships, which is what saved us too.
I was taught Christopher Columbus was a discoverer of the new land. We were both lied to
We don’t care mate, your American.
You must have read it wrong then, he was the first European to discover the New World, and even that got debunked when they discovered that the Vikings had reached it hundreds of years sooner than Colombo.@@iaintmadatcha
Interesting that Sir Anthony Seldon didn't feel the need to interrupt Imarn Ayton every time she was asked for an opinion... Maybe that was because he was interested in hearing her opinion rather than just blindly forcing his own.
That's an example of having manners and being polite....
Stupid question !!! Churchill was a racist ! Historically proven .... so why asking the question then??!
And he didn’t saved “us” from nazi Germany ....... he send other men fighting against nazi germany for his preservation and of the British EMPIRE (!!) because nazi germany was an expanding EMPIRE ...
Also when a hitler was “ just“ a Passant churchil was already in Power and done numerous mosntrous decisions.... in the First world war !!! And before and After ..
Só no churchil was no hero at all ...
he was a villain !!!
And i say this as „ white“ Swiss ( Portuguese) „Male „ ..........
And before you acuse me of being „woke“
No im fucking Not !!!!
Im Not one of this idiots who thinks only white People can be racist(?? Itself a racist Statement ......)
No i dont hate Myself for being white ( its just a skincolor... i was Born with just like the Color of my eyes)
I dont like BLM ( or WLM!!) because its a phony Scam ( Black lives only mater to them if the agressor Happens to be white !!! Thats it??!! ) completly in the hands of the democrats( Who is a corrupt Party just like the fucking republicans.....) and the always appear in eléction years...
Honestly no one in this debate is Right !! They all say things That are Not True !!
But unfortnetly Most People take a side instead of searching for the truth ...
@@robert-uc4mf you’re argument had potential until you mentioned you were a white Portuguese ‘Swiss’…. Then you lost all credibility😂
No one said Churchill was perfect, but to try and overshadow his leadership legacy and achievements with negative aspects of his personality or failures is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by losers who want to rewrite history!
He's just a respectable person and she isn't FACTS
And she is in Britain, why? What a hypocrit!
Would love to hear her thoughts on idi amin
doesnt compare to hitler and churchill. he didnt invade nobody
nobody in the uk calls him a hero
@@drinkwater9891white folks do
She is not from Uganda. Will i ask you about the atrocities in Rhodesia?
The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every man
The times were a lot different when churchill was alive. I’m sure the racism was everywhere back then so it wasn’t looked as a bad thing then because people couldn’t think what they’re saying is wrong. Social constructs steer how we people think
@@jjjyli686 - Racism , or to be much more specific - British supremacy (I just made it up. I like it) is something the British ruling class was extremely proud of since they invaded half of the world overseas.
Britain is the biggest war criminal, thief and mass murderer in history. But history is written by the winners so most people are under a bizzare spell that the British went around the world and spread goodness and help.
Rapists, thieves, murderers. And proud of it. That's the British elites for you.
@@jjjyli686 actually I believe social constraints just make us more careful what we say.
Not what we truelly think.
Seems reasonable but what good was Britain doing in Kenya to do such horrifying things to simple poor people who were only trying to make a good future for themselves and their families, if those Kenyans didn't stand-up for themselves then no black man on earth would have had no official free rights to do or say anything, Churchill was a definite monster.
@@sutt1tclo143 He's just a dude. You'd be just as bad or worse in that position. Just like anyone.
i will never understand why people who judge history and people's decisions and actions in the past are always oblivious to the fact that they benefit from hindsight.
This woman obviously hope’s nobody will check on her facts and when she gets caught lying she moves to another topic
ALWAYS!
I wish all those who bravely gave their lives for freedom could see how utterly ungrateful people are for their supreme sacrifice.
Thank you.
Churchill never supported freedom. We wanted to grow the British imperial empire. To the opposite he hated freedom. When gandhi was in hunger strike to ask for freedom and rights peacefully and the bengal famine was in its peak Churchill said if everyone is dying in famine then why gandhi is still alive
@okman9684 and what do you think Hitler would have done to the bengal empire had he won the war, that same war Churchill dedicated 24 hours a day if his time to winning.
In war there are often hard choices to make, people may not like it but you can thank him for making those choices because if he hadn't and the Germans won, you would not be able to voice opinions like this so easily.
Tell it to the 4 million Bengalis that died because of Churchill
@sadimuntakim4109 want me to tell the rest of the Jewish race that at the same time , 6 million of them died in horrible ways, and had Hitler won the war, there would be none of them left.
What ever way you put it, war is awful, and people are often sacrificed for the greater good, Lord knows brotish soldiers were. They were sent to battles we knew they couldn't win just so we could keep the fact we broke the Germans code secret.
The fact people like you are winging about it shows you need to look at the bigger picture and grow the hell up.
That woman was not up to debating. She came up against people who were too intelligent for her. We need more of this. Very glad that Piers called her out. She couldn't resist the white slur.
You are so wrong about the female guest, she held her own regarding the subject matter of the monsterous action of Winston Churchill towards Kenyan men having their genitals crushed 7 years after the WAR II. Kudos to her for not being brow beaten by Piers Morgan tactics he so relishes in.
@@neemab1370 she made a fool out of herself imo.
She educated piers about Kenya and Piers had nothing to say back and the historian agreed with her. So what's your point?
@@neemab1370 lol
@@t16205 Yours is the best argument I've seen in these comments.
Churchill would have agreed that he could be a monster, but needed to be one in order to defeat Hitler.
I'm Kenyan, and yeah, I wouldn't be here today if not for THE GREAT BRITISH EMPIRE ENLIGHTENING MY COUNTRY
LONG LIVE CHURCHILL HERO, LEGEND
Nice what did he do?
@@atta1798 Brought me clothes, books and money
@@TyrellMnacada 👍
Yes You would you clown
Sarcasm, right?
"Study found only 1 in 5 people aged 18-24 had a positive view of Churchill"
The rest didn't know who he was because "school".
It is the inevitable consequence of the replacement of education by indoctrination, as began some years ago in Britain, and still continues at an increasing pace.
@@Asimmehra Or the 1 person is British and the rest are immigrants. Or half are British and half are immigrants. Or none are immigrants. What does it matter?
And miseducated doesn't equate directly to uneducated. You may be miseducated about history, but that doesn't mean you're not educated about math, science, etc.
I would still urge everyone to learn and study the Bengal famine themselves as it wasn't as simple as Piers suggests. The colonial policies played a huge role in the famine reaching the extent it did
Yes it's the classic strawman.
"Well he didn't cause the famine", as if Churchill's critics think he was the sole cause of the famine.
He wouldn't make the same argument regarding Ireland because British people are much more familiar with Britain's mismanagement of that crisis
maybe India shouldnt have been dependent of another country regardless if it was part of the colony. self sustenance should have been achieved by the time WW2 started.
Churchill weighed the options:
1. Let Japanese rule the South of Asia
2. Let the British rule the South of Asia
...
I think, given the policies of imperial Japan, the South-Asians would prefer the British... By far.
Churchill made a lot of mistakes though.
@@mysterasuarezgovernment of India at that time was the British government. There was no parliament. The British government was responsible. Fact was they couldn't care less.
nah fam what the Japanese were to do in India, was already done 10 times over by the British Raj@@sifuhotman1300
"anyone that kills anyone is a monster" makes you automatically the dumbest person in the argument.
Mandela was accused of more than 150 terrorist acts for which the western media said that would justify the death penalty. He pleaded guilty, but was given only life judgement and the SA courts were praised for their leniency.
Do you believe Mr. Mandela was a terrorist?
These are debates where people can actually learn something. Well done, Piers
Hopefully Imarn Ayton learnt something, but from her smug attitude I doubt it. Any research she may have done would appear to have been merely an exercise in cherry picking.
Something they can’t have or do in America learn
Exactly, I thought this was a reasoned debate. Churchill was a person of his times and no angel by any stretch. He was very much unpopular before the war by the working class, seen as a political opportunist by everyone in parliament but at the time in WW2 he was the perfect man for the job because he saw what was coming. After he was voted out by the country because he was seen by the electorate as not the right man for rebuilding a very damaged country. I have no idea why people are offended why someone of this generation is calling him out for being a racist, he was by any standards of today and so were the average person in the street. Im in my 50s this is not new information. I still think he was a legend, but he was flawed. I think the lady is saying that we should get the full story about him and other people of previous centuries.
LOL. Yeah for once he didn't invite someone on and yell at them, not let them talk and then say, "thanks for your time today" it was very strange actually. I suppose it shows his fear of taking too strong a side on a topic which he is sceptical about being on winning side of the argument but he still gave it a small challenge. Ended up giving her the floor and probably wasn't too happy with the result TBH. It certainly felt out of character for him. Maybe he was thinking that this woman is his match. She had his number from the get go with her whole, I agree with you routine, but here's some facts before you shut me down.
@@justsomeoneinthecommentsse5249 i agree 100%. She managed to single out once again White people, jews etc.. and yet when a white person does it its racist. I find her incredibly racist
If only Churchill was here to defend himself
He couldn't, he was all those things and worse
With a name, like O’Neill, I think you need to look at the history of Ireland and Winston Churchill☘️
@jamesokeeffe3216 1916
@@whitleybayman123 if you were to choose one, who do you prefer Churchill Hitler or Stalin?
@@atta1798 That's like saying do you prefer to be a child rapist, child molester or child murder. None of them were particularly good people. Millions of Indians died for a war that wasn't their own.
As an American I had ZERO faith that she was gonna give such a reasonable answer. Can't say I FULLY agree, but I didn't expect to agree at ALL
Churchill was exactly who was needed at a very critical time. I have great admiration for the man. He was a Soldier, a Statesman, and he loved his country!!
Sounds like you’re literally repeating what the aristocratic class tell the plebs to say!
@@joey-pn3xe There's a whiff of communism about you Joey. Is your surname Deacon by any chance?
Errrm more like help the jews to get free land in Palestine and do a land grab
@@foxnmfox you seem a bit bias Nas Khan…
churchill average at best the most overrated leader of britain thatcher was, is and will be the greatest british leader ever
Sometimes we need to hold ourselves accountable for our weaknesses, incompetence and shortcomings.
Some of our shortcomings aren’t exporting 70,000 tons of rice out of a famine struck bengal. Curious I never hear this about Stalin… sure he did more to save the world from the nazis than all the rest of the countries combined (3/4 of nazi losses were to the red army) but you obviously don’t hear people going “well the holodomir was just a teensy little character flaw you really have to take the good with the bad”.
“You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain” - Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight (2008)
hes dead bro
If It wasn't for Churchill we'd all be speaking German !!
Come on if it wasn't for The USA!
Youd be German
@@elyaqui5324rubbish, it was actually Russia that won WW2 not the British or the Americans. Read the true facts 😉
Churchill was a hero in WW2 for damn sure. Every sin of the British Empire shouldn't be blamed on him.
It must be nice to be able to sit back and call everyone monsters and be able to do so because those monsters did ehat they had to do to keep you free
The fact that she says in the same conversation "i think him saving us makes him heroic" and also "anyone who kills anyone else is monsterious" lady????!! How do you think he saved us? His military wasnt delivering requests for good vibes.
Back in the day in South Africa when the ANC was fighting against apartheid, there were some pretty atrocious acts committed under Mandela - they had a thing called "necklacing" where they would a put a tire around your neck and set it alight, amongst many other things. This was done all in the name of freedom and fighting against the apartheid government. This is why he was seen as a terrorist. Today he is a respected hero for ending apartheid in South Africa, but that road was paved by doing many monstrous things. You don't achieve something like that by doing "good deeds"
@@sarahtheblue stories like this are common, ideals are peaceful history is violent. People who think the world can run without any negative actions are living in a dream world.
@@pyslithersintoaishe litterally said "anyone who kills is monsterious" 10:58
@@TheRavencommander I apologize. you are correct.
They sent a strongly worded letter and asked him to go to the naughty step and think about his actions. Then someone sent another letter apologising for the tone of the original letter and asking If they'd like to join their antismoking rally,or some such
Sir Anthony seldon was my vice chancellor when at the university of Buckingham, I had the chance to chat with him a couple times. He was very pleasant and is a very very intelligent and accomplished chap. God knows what this lady was thinking willingly going into a debate with him
Imarn wont let go of the hustle... every argument she brings it back to race.
Ultimately she's bitter that her life is comfortable and with lots of opportunity, because of the British Empire and she CanNot stand that fact. Without that she would be an abused woman somewhere in Africa, where slavery was endemic throughout history, before the Brits ended the slave trade, by persistent enforcement of its abolition, on other nations whilst they were the richest country globally from 1815-1918
@@Rowlph8888u guys were dying of diseases because u couldn’t showrv
because he was a racist
Id say the world is a better place for having Winston Churchill as leader of this country .
Absolutely.
Of course you'd say that. If the people of Yorkshire had to suffer a famine due to "decision making" and had a Yorkshire concentration camp where testicles were ripped off. Would you continue to feel the same way that the world is a better place if this hero was to cause this harm on Yorkshire?
He was a drunken fool who iredeemably ruined your nation for the sake of his own vanity but by all means keep beleiving that he saved you from a German invasion (that was completely impossible) if it makes you feel better about your once great nations relegation to utter irelevance.
@@25hus2556j 😂
@@joshuamoher9375 wow if your standers are, one of the most powerful men in the world, who helped win the biggest war of all time is a fool then you must be some man hahah tk a bow lad
"we need to balance the argument by concluding that was an utter evil monster"
Yes, perfectly balanced...
She should have been asked which was a worse monster, Hitler or Churchill?
@Thunk Junk Well, obviously Hitler. Hitler did the same things Churchill is being accused of doing (albeit on a much bigger scale) all without having the caveat of the fact that he did a lot of good things beforehand.
I think the point is, even if Hitler had liberated some 20 Million (or however many) let's say Muslims from fascist labour camps, he would still be considered a monster because of the way he had treated and systematically executed the Jewish.
So why not Churchill?
He was a hero and a monster... that is balanced
@@ScreenStaticStudiosthen people should stop turning it round and round in a circular argument. Anyone who says Winston Churchill is great, he won world War 2, please also say that he also killed 4 million people from a country in an entirely different continent which is perfectly acceptable collateral to a war.
Who was an utter evil monster ??