This is exciting. I am a zerg player and I hate when terran always uses the same builds. It's always marine, marauder, medivac. I'm not the best player, but I have figured out a good strategy for beating this army composition. I want more complexity, for me and my opponent. I have confidence these units will provide that complexity and rejuvenate the game.
Audiomax I have, but it's not as common. I believe balance is really good, but the best terran players in the world reveal the weaknesses of zerg v terran. Bomber makes marines, splits them well, gg. Zerg has no real answer to well controlled marines. Zerg does have counters to mech. Blinding cloud + anything destroys tank lines. Roaches are great against hellbats. Zerglings are great against thors. I haven't had a lot of experience vs mass ravens, but mass corruptor has been pretty effective. I've also heard mutas are very effective vs ravens. If you have the presence of mind to fly your targeted mutas into the ravens, you'll be in good shape. If the mech army gets fully upgraded and sticks together in a ball it is hard to beat. Blinding cloud and abduct are zerg's best friends in these situations.
+Kei Angelus Because it appears the Cyclone has a weakness that the diamondback doesn't. In that it looks like it can only target one unit with a barrage before going on a long attack cooldown. Giving it longer range and air attack instead, means that it's acceptable to use against big targets, but you can't use it to win against every single ground unit that is outranged by it, unlike the diamondback.
Clee4000 no point good one Einstien. Lets just turtle up in your base and mass out Battlecruisers for 20 minutes without stepping a foot out of your area and then teleport them to the opposers base woohoooo
Conkers Squirrel Will this is still the early phase. Plus when Battlecruisers are built they don't have full energy. You must be a noob if your not ready for an air attack.
Clee4000 iv never complained about their energy, all iv simply stated is that instead of being able to teleport on black spots on the map you have yet to discover, they should make them only be able to teleport on the spots on the map you have already uncovered from the fog of war. Brings out a more strategic style when using them, but hey you want things to be simple and easy i get it.
Last time I heard Starcraft music was at least a year ago, so these videos made my day. I am in love with this universe and all the characters and sounds.
Terran is again OP i take it. As always, you need tier 3 units to deal with the cheapest bullshit units the terrans can churn out. So now, not only do you need one stalker in your base to guard against Reapers, but your second stalker cant go out and scout because of the Cyclone.
"Keep in mind that everything is subject to change as we move into public testing." Just chill out for now dude and sign up for beta testing!. :D Changes are going to happen, unless David Kimbalance shuts his ears again. Note: Some of these changes seems pretty broken, like the removal of cloak upgrade and banshees outrunning detection. Cyclone will be a pain for us Zerg players as well. Early game Zerglings vs that fucker? No chance.
I hope that Thor auto-repair costs the same as a normal SCV repair. As for cyclones, they're counterable enough for Z and T (Conc shell, Herc, Speedlings), but for Toss I can't see how to counter it without Blink or Charge or colossus. Maybe if it couldn't shoot up without an upgrade (so you can use MSC) and/or it had the same range, or maybe some early stargate build with Stasis fields and stalkers.
Protoss are getting long distance pcikups with their warp prisms, The cyclone is going to have to take time to retarget another unit if that unit suddenly disappears and reappears. I think the best thing to do tho is give them a nerf against shields, that way they have some nice synergy with ghosts.
Gabriel Aspiras Did you see the exhibition matches? You can get a cyclone by like 4 minutes... the only thing you could possibly counter it with is maybe either super-fast 3-gate blink or photon overcharge.
Gabriel Aspiras why are you pitting 2 units against one? if it takes a dropship micro to have chance against a single unit i think it tells of the story. and also, i dont think a drop ship micro could take down cyclone. i just need to lock on to prism, finish it off and its gamed. cyclone seems like a hard counter against toss units, when locked on it outranges even colossus.
hmm in a game which is already so micro intensive it stops a major mass of people playing it, more micro -.- need auto cast options for people that don't wanna deal with crazy micro but like the gameplay of macro and tactics... need some option for tactical positioning as well, like formations etc. especially with these new things.
***** I agree with you, there was a huge backlash on SC2 when it came out because the micro aspect of Starcraft was dummed down from SC1 and became a lot easier for new players. There is no reason for Blizzard to dumb down this franchise even further just because some people lack the skills Starcraft demands for high level play.
rmyd027 backlash what?? it did better then sc1 ever did because of the micro being scewed back a bit making it more available to players using their intellect more (not much but a bit), setting even more focus on the tactical aspect instead of pure micro would only be good for it ... (learning how to do the same exact thing 2000 times with little to no brain activity does not mean high skill lvl.. just mean laming it enough and having half a brain while still not being bored to death by the mindless repetition...)
There's a reason why people hate Protoss 'Death Balls' and 'A moving', and I don't think you see it. Controlling a large number of infantry requires obscenely fast thinking and reflexes to dodge Banelings, Storms, Colossi, and several dozen other things that could vaporize your army. But hey, that's a small price for playing a race with 'OP' Tier 1 units, right? Should be easy enough, even for YOU!
Hau Tak Leighton Tam Terran players dry off their resources making lots of infantry, which are going to be all killed, only to loose by running out of money. Kinda the same for the Zerg. While Protoss will invest way less because they are too resilient. The cost-benefit relation favors Protoss greatly. Furthermore, they have the biggest, strongest units, like the Mothership. With less, bigger units you can micro them better, and they hold off more time while doing the same ammount of damage, and on top of that, they recharge shields while off-combat. Balance my ass.
I like a lot of the new changes for all 3 races, but once again it looks like Terrans have the units that will be most likely become OP. Of course nothing has really been tested yet so we'll have to see. Love the new Zerg changes though. FOR THE SWARM!
Actually the Cyclone IS something that Terran needs TBH.. I didn't expect such a HARD COUNTER, but - anything is fine.. I actually LOVE the direction this is gonna take.. It's no longer T1 and T3 units, but all races will have T2 viable as well.. That being said - these things are the T3 counter of Terran that's T2 unit.. In other words - that thing is the deathball breaker - you lock those things and kite the Colossi instead of having to have immobile vikings do that The Protoss changes seem/feel a bit lacklustre and vulnerable at many points - lesser CC and more micro for everything everywhere, but - we never know till we try TBH
I bet mine that it will stay :D Because it's a death-ball breaker - i.e. - something that dispatches from the Colossi without them having to sacrifice themselves or stand in place
Well this is really cool! I'm loving these changes to the Terran. I get the feeling some of them will be changed out during the beta testing, but who knows. Maybe just balance adjustments are all that are needed and we won't need to void them.
Maybe, although I don't think that would solve all the potential issues with it. They just seem like they'd be awfully good at harassment and delaying the opponent from attacking now. Late game, you could just use a few to warp one at a time into the enemy base every now and then to force them to pull their army back. Fixed defenses aren't really cost effective vs BCs, and leaving enough of your army at each base to kill a BC means your main force would be severely weakened.
I actually don't think that its going to be that overpowered because of the fact that battlecruisers are almost never used right now simply because they are to slow this would allow them to be mobile but not used for harassing as you wont have enough energy to do a double jump.
Love how the video covered that Hercs can easily be countered by an army composition of having "a few" Zealots to defend Immortals and completely that neglect that Marines can defend tanks very effectively against Immortals in the Protoss video...
I love how people are calling Terran OP now, when for the longest time Terran have been on the backfoot in terms of balance. Widow mines and Hellbats aren't that powerful guys. Swarmhost giving infinite locusts is. Oracle Harass is way too common.
alright, I'll bite. How are Terran better off then Protoss in terms of Balance? I'll take Oracle backstabs out the equation for this (seeing as they can turn every game into all ins for the first attack) and grant you Widow Mines being powerful (though subject to heavy nerfs)
Teleporting battlecruisers, self-healing thors, faster banshees and drop harassing with sieged tanks? Ohh yeah... these are what terrans really needed, more OP bananza.
Why not? Teleporting Protoss units made it into the game. Maybe this time Protoss players would know how it feels like when going against units that can come from anywhere on the map.
Whats wrong with that? BCs are really slow, and they'll take a while until they can teleport again. You can always have defensive units out of the range of a scan to ambush the BCs
I am not a pro player or anything so provably there is a lot of things I am not having into account, but the Cyclone looks pretty god dam OP; super long range, against both air and earth, and high speed ? Early game against Terran is going to be a freaking nightmare.
+Armored Interactive Inc so the forum won't welcome any newcomers to the genre and would rather play against people about their skill. that's not good if you want a growing fanbase.
punch3870 Indeed, but the forum claim themselves "hardcore" and stated they are the only population necessary to keep the game gong. "Casual" just needs to pay the money and not play. Don't ask me why, I'm just telling you what's happening there.
Dear God... teleporting battle cruisers and cyclones: massive range, ground and air attacking high-speed units which don't need to stop to attack.... Why not just give the terran race an upgrade which costs 50/50 and takes 30 seconds..? the upgrade provides a new ability at any terran command center called "win". Press it to win.
I like that battlecruisers are starting to feel like the starships of science fiction. .. but anywhere on the map??? At least have a fixed range to teleport, or add some debuff to the BC after tping, maybe both. The banshee speed upgrade also seems pretty gosh darn OP to me
Mike Hawk Yep. Everyone is bitching I think it's about time Terran got something better that prevents tanks being sitting ducks with slow retreat. Protoss are all crying coz they will no longer be able to A move win and Zerg are crying coz they now cannot just baneling bust a whole bio army as easily.
so.... herc is a pretty big unit like a marauder... why didnt it drag the puny zergling towards itself instead of somehow dragging its massive self towards it?
I feel like Blizzard is getting more and more like "yolo, lets just put in some really fun stuff in our games. These new units and abilities are completly dope.
I was thinking if the medivac, on the new update, can unload all of the units at once. Either all marines drops, or mixed army such as tanks, marines, marauders at once. I dont know if this is too OP for the game but I think blizzard should try to consider this. And what if the medivac have some kind of limited weapons once its used, it'll never reload. Like having a 3-round powerful missiles capable on dealing up to 300 dmg to single unit, or maybe just one shot missile capable to kill a single unit no matter how much HP the target has.
All Avilo's whining didn't go unheard apparently, changes to immortals, tanks, thors and bc's all seem to be to make mech more viable especially in tvp. Seems a bit too strong but should be fun to see how it unfolds.
I'm not terran, but I take it that most terran players enjoy a good 'ol whine regardless of game balance state. So listening to Avilo's sonorous voice on stream would be akin to hearing masterfully composed classics by Mozart. He speaks straight to their whining hearts, it's almost romantic Kappa.
All i want is a simple air Unit that can attack air and ground units at the same time, like in Starcraft 1. I dount want more funky units with hooks or transformers. Why cant they be a Remake Version from Starcraft 1 for Starcraft 2 with all the old units made by Blizzard? or just a "non esport" mode for normal people with simple untis like the ones from Starcraft 1. Blizzard is only making games for esport cracks
They are bringing such a mode. It will be like the campaign, but coop and in scenarios. There will be all known units from the campaign to choose from and upgrades for them.
Daniel B. Blizzard is doing a thing in Starcraft 2, the same way they do Archon Mode. It will be a 2 player coop mode where you do scenario (campaign - like) missions. You will have a new xp bar that will award new units (including broodwar and starcraft 2 campaign ones) and upgrades for them, in order o do additional missions, and upgrade even more. Think of it as a coop campaign with no big story. It's called Allied Commanders. You will see info on it on the Legacy of the Void site.
there is a game mode with sc1 units. its called starbow... its in the sc2 arcade.. idk i only play ladder so yea. cyclones better get scrapped... i dont think 1 ultra equals 1 cyclone -___-;;
exciting stuff - that new battlecruiser ability might be game breaking though, what with starting positions of competition maps already known to players
I am confused isn't zerg known for their mobility? I think you guys got confused somewhere in your changes. Terran now the most mobile race. marine maurader stim speed, medivac boost, banshee speed boost. herc grapple, reaper cliff jumping, cyclone attacking while moving, battlecruiser teleport, siege mode tank dropping. I feel like I am missing one. But wow. PS Thor already had auto healing anywhere on the map. It is called a mule.
So, this wasn't mentioned, but I'm guessing the cyclone is a Factory unit? Although, it's designed to counter stalkers (too bad terran doesn't already have a unit to counter stalkers, like something called a marauder...), so it might be a barracks unit.
What makes Terran can teleport when Protoss cannot, It doesn't make sense. If BattleCruiser can do it, Carrier should able to do it as well. Actually all Protoss units should able to teleport to anywhere without vision!
I just thought - the way you could nerf Cyclone's ability a bit and still leave it interesting is to change when cooldown is triggered. If it will trigger after targeted unit is killed, player disables it, changes target or it goes out of range - player wouldn't be able to spam it.
Omg. While there is, of course, going to be a lot of balancing to do I am actually really stoked about these ideas. I love them and can't wait to try it out for myself.
Liking the changes I'm seeing. More options, more micro, more interesting plays. Really like the new battlecruiser, kinda incentivising having a standing fleet at the base, to keep them alive long enough to have energy to warp as well as masking numbers, then you can bring them all in for large fights. Comes at the cost of some yamatos, but it could be interesting. Hopefully it means we see some more of them, because they are always a joy when they come out. Like carriers.
The Herc seems interesting, but not so sure about the cyclone.. I like the Siege Tank changes as well as the Biscuit Crusier changes. This will be interesting indeed
I don't understand the siege tank changes. Terran have the easiest time harrassing with widow mines, hell bats, ravens, medivacs. If this goes through, the seige tank firing speed needs to be drastically reduced.
Cyclone feels like a unit mech needed - a fast, reliable hit-and-run unit capable of dealing with air targets (mech never had reliable anti-air from the Factory). Merc... doesn't feel like a Terran unit at all. It's like... from another universe or a different game entirely. Looks fun to use, though.
+Jay Bisky according to the starcraft wiki, it overlaps with the hellbat's (bulky close range of the terrans) and zealot's playstyle (charge attack). It also mentioned that there was another dev phase of the HERC that made it a combat builder, but they scrapped that one too.
If Blizzard is interested in making massive profit, they should not let Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void become too difficult to play. Casual gamers, which do not have well micro skills, are going to be the biggest group of money paying customers! When the game expansion requires too much skill, especially related to micro, then casual gamers will be scared away from buying the final version of Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void!
Jedi Master Pong Krell Enough with making games for casual players only. If there is no difference between players who has played for years and those that just begin, Legacy of the void will die out just as HOTS.
I don't get it. Every time I click on the link to Sign Up for Beta, it brings me to a page having to do with that, but then when I click the button on that page that says Sign Up for Beta, it brings me to a page where I choose what Betas I want to play. It doesn't bring up a page to directly sign up for this Beta. I sure hope by having the SC2 Beta checkmarked, I get to play the Beta when it comes out. But my impression from this was that I would be able to play the Beta right now. I don't even see a scheduled date for the Beta to open up either so I'm now wondering if I missed the Beta or something.
Terran gets to OP units, super easy drop harass with the siege tank, REPAIRING without mules/scv's, and all the limits of blink and recall go to the most OP unit, the BC
erls good I am not 100% sure but he was too similar to the Hellbat. And he was good against Lings and Banelings.. Soo maybe that was too strong. But they got another Unit.
Who likes the idea of: supply depot DROP not just doubles the supply granted by the building but also increases its health from 400 to 600? Though, it should only increase the maximum health, so you have to repair it to actually make a stronger wall and it should increase repair costs by 50 to 100% also. Would be a good addition to mech and because of this more players would bring scvs to repair their army also. This way it won't just be an emergency option but possibly a tactical one.
Cyclones look sweet. But 'Herc'? That's the stupidest goddamned name for a Terran unit conceivable. It's like the dude was in the middle of announcing the brand new Terran *HERRRKK* and got a stroke. I hope they can think of something better to name them. Hell, if I was in charge of designing a powered armor designed for hook-shotting fools and punching things in the face, I'd call them Scorpions or Tysons or some such
Just a random thought: There's a lot of AI coming out of the Terrans lately. Maybe it's just because I watched Age of Ultron over the weekend, but wouldn't it be cool in Starcraft III they introduced a fourth race, the Machines? Zerg evolve, Terrans build mechs, Protoss build up psyonic power, and how about AI build on themselves, similar to Ultron. Each upgrade is a significant improvement on the old design? Probably a horrible idea with no consideration to balancing or anything else, but I think it would be cool.
Dropping Sieged Siege tanks? Reminds me of back in Brood War where I would take over an scv as protoss, build a shitload of siege tanks, siege them then use the arbiter recall to call them all inside the enemy base...seems kinda op to me...(There's a reason that tactic was fixed in later patches)
I personally wish that Battlecruisers didn't get the tele without vision, but it wouldn't change much. You'd get a slight warning if you are looking at the right area from the scan before the jump. By no means is that enough time to get your units into any suitable position, and if you weren't paying attention it's essentially the same thing. I don't get what changing it would really do guys. Can someone explain that to me? Also the Cyclone seems like a little bit TO hard of a counter. Terran need something like it, agreed, but it seems just a tad OP...
Not only is it more micro, but different types of micro. (Other than just moving damaged units back, etc.) Micro is now unit-specific. Very interesting, but it makes StarCraft micro even more difficult than it already is.
Forgot to ask - what about Reapers? They see no usage whatsover beyond the super early game, some kind of mid-to-late game upgrade would be nice. Right now, you just scout with them (they deal pitiful damage, so you're lucky if you kill a single worker) and then just forget they exist. A waste of a cool unit.
Those Battle Cruisers display shadows on the ground before there's a logical mass in the air to provide such shadow... rather have an energy status in the air like a warp in Protoss would have
One thing that would be incredibly awesome would be if they made the nuke more useful. It is by far the coolest thing in the game, and it is rarely used. It sounds like one of their main goals is to increase harassment. What better way to do that than with improved nukes. Maybe make them stronger, or cut down the time it takes to drop, or at least increase the distance a ghost can do it from significantly so it is harder to find them. They could also use a good anti air mech on the ground. Maybe even bring the Goliath back. The Viking is weak. They brought the Lurker back. Why not the Goliath too?
thank god we got the shaft for HOTS idc whats balanced or w/e, its fun to get new units and we literally only got 1 new unit (hellbats don't count) I just hope they can find a way to balance it so nerds wont complain and get us to receive only 1 new unit again
Ah man I was really wanting a SPECTRE!!!! Herc: Is okay can see something like a full bio compisition....but I wonder if it would have stim (don't like this unit much looks like something they just scrap up and put together) Cyclone: may in fact replace Viking in TvP Battlecruiser warp ability: Just there keep us just drooling but may not actually see play. ppl talk about warping into the base but why would you do that, to easily have them destroyed by canons and spores. It could however be used on the battlefield, but it all depends on how much energy it will have 125energy would allow you to warp but it would mean you would have to wait a little longer to warp out or use yamato canon.
RIP HERC.....
and here comes something even more op
let's just hope it's in campaign and map editor
+LoDrAkK/// HERC is just "MIA"
BBspike100 found the unit in map editor though
Kordarus Wood also I'm not a zerg player I main Terran actually
Self repairing Thors? Teleporting BCs? Units that can attack while moving...
TERRAN SOOOOO IMBAAAAA!!!!
Ok Protoss version of Avilo.
.___. terran vs zerg is not playable! !
Gabriel Aspiras TY FOR SAYING THAT. This game is going to become overwhelming to play and people are just gonna stop playing it. LOL
This is beta and everything you saw will change. Even after release there will be balancing. No need to worry
***** I hope we survive till then. XD
Battle cruiser OPerational...
you won...
gg wp
haha soo good :D
SCV unemployment due to the new Thor change. Thanks Obama.
Alan Lin got scrapped
they're figuring out something new for thor
+Alan Lin They took our jobs!
+Alan Lin More like Thanks Mengsk
Patxiku93 Which one? Valerian or Arcturus?
MediaMix1 the changes to the Thor came when Valerian was ruling so... Arcturus was worse though
Sheep go 'baaah', cats go 'meow', Starcraft players go 'the PvP is unbalanced!'.
That actually made me laugh :D Well done good sir :D
This is exciting. I am a zerg player and I hate when terran always uses the same builds. It's always marine, marauder, medivac. I'm not the best player, but I have figured out a good strategy for beating this army composition. I want more complexity, for me and my opponent. I have confidence these units will provide that complexity and rejuvenate the game.
You never played against good Mech?
Audiomax I have, but it's not as common. I believe balance is really good, but the best terran players in the world reveal the weaknesses of zerg v terran. Bomber makes marines, splits them well, gg. Zerg has no real answer to well controlled marines. Zerg does have counters to mech. Blinding cloud + anything destroys tank lines. Roaches are great against hellbats. Zerglings are great against thors. I haven't had a lot of experience vs mass ravens, but mass corruptor has been pretty effective. I've also heard mutas are very effective vs ravens. If you have the presence of mind to fly your targeted mutas into the ravens, you'll be in good shape. If the mech army gets fully upgraded and sticks together in a ball it is hard to beat. Blinding cloud and abduct are zerg's best friends in these situations.
I stand corrected.
Battlecruiser teleport anywhere on map?? wtf loll. how you gonna balance that.
WITH SCIENCE!
because the damage is the same? and currently any units beats a battle crusier...
VideoFletcher - UA-cam Channel. yep yep. 2 battlecruisers in all of your bases and an army at the front door - totaly should work out.
SCIENCE!
I hope to god they keep that though, it looks freaking awesome, and I main Zerg haha.
Prtooss did that
So in big team games that allow one person to tech and turtle I am all the sudden gonna have 20 battle cruisers in my base from out of nowhere?
Yes.
Sounds like an ability protoss units should have.
Lol if only it was just big team games nowadays
Why not just introduce the diamondback to multiplayer if they're going to make a unit that's very similar to it?
+Kei Angelus Because it appears the Cyclone has a weakness that the diamondback doesn't. In that it looks like it can only target one unit with a barrage before going on a long attack cooldown. Giving it longer range and air attack instead, means that it's acceptable to use against big targets, but you can't use it to win against every single ground unit that is outranged by it, unlike the diamondback.
the battlecruiser should only be allowed to teleport to parts of the map you have scouted
Conkers Squirrel
Then there would have been no point of upgrading the battlecruiser
Clee4000 no point good one Einstien. Lets just turtle up in your base and mass out Battlecruisers for 20 minutes without stepping a foot out of your area and then teleport them to the opposers base woohoooo
Conkers Squirrel
Will this is still the early phase. Plus when Battlecruisers are built they don't have full energy.
You must be a noob if your not ready for an air attack.
Clee4000 iv never complained about their energy, all iv simply stated is that instead of being able to teleport on black spots on the map you have yet to discover, they should make them only be able to teleport on the spots on the map you have already uncovered from the fog of war. Brings out a more strategic style when using them, but hey you want things to be simple and easy i get it.
Conkers Squirrel
Its only 1 unit not a big deal. The Nydus Worm will be the big issue.
I love the idea of teleporting Battlecruisers, but maybe put a limit to their teleport range? Anywhere in the map just seems ridiculous.
Last time I heard Starcraft music was at least a year ago, so these videos made my day. I am in love with this universe and all the characters and sounds.
Terran is again OP i take it. As always, you need tier 3 units to deal with the cheapest bullshit units the terrans can churn out. So now, not only do you need one stalker in your base to guard against Reapers, but your second stalker cant go out and scout because of the Cyclone.
"Keep in mind that everything is subject to change as we move into public testing." Just chill out for now dude and sign up for beta testing!. :D Changes are going to happen, unless David Kimbalance shuts his ears again.
Note: Some of these changes seems pretty broken, like the removal of cloak upgrade and banshees outrunning detection. Cyclone will be a pain for us Zerg players as well. Early game Zerglings vs that fucker? No chance.
then again, all the races got a lot of unit buffs so it slightly evens it out
all the changes are pretty dramatic there is no way of telling how things will really turn out
We'll see guys! Sign up for beta testing!
The Protoss actually seem nerfed :P
I hope that Thor auto-repair costs the same as a normal SCV repair. As for cyclones, they're counterable enough for Z and T (Conc shell, Herc, Speedlings), but for Toss I can't see how to counter it without Blink or Charge or colossus. Maybe if it couldn't shoot up without an upgrade (so you can use MSC) and/or it had the same range, or maybe some early stargate build with Stasis fields and stalkers.
***** You say finally, meanwhile we've known these things have existed for a day.
Protoss are getting long distance pcikups with their warp prisms, The cyclone is going to have to take time to retarget another unit if that unit suddenly disappears and reappears. I think the best thing to do tho is give them a nerf against shields, that way they have some nice synergy with ghosts.
Gabriel Aspiras Did you see the exhibition matches? You can get a cyclone by like 4 minutes... the only thing you could possibly counter it with is maybe either super-fast 3-gate blink or photon overcharge.
Gabriel Aspiras why are you pitting 2 units against one? if it takes a dropship micro to have chance against a single unit i think it tells of the story. and also, i dont think a drop ship micro could take down cyclone. i just need to lock on to prism, finish it off and its gamed.
cyclone seems like a hard counter against toss units, when locked on it outranges even colossus.
Ken Yap Maybe Phoenixes? Or oracle stasis?
You guys always make me feel like a kid, anxiously waiting for the Christmas to unwrap the presents.
hmm in a game which is already so micro intensive it stops a major mass of people playing it, more micro -.-
need auto cast options for people that don't wanna deal with crazy micro but like the gameplay of macro and tactics...
need some option for tactical positioning as well, like formations etc. especially with these new things.
Go play Wargame: Red Dragon
No, I'm serious. I think it's the best RTS ever made, and it's all about macro and tactics over 'who can click faster'
Caleb Swinson Or Civilization. :D
u are right. i started playing SC2 since HotS. but I think about quiting this game before LotV. it is going to be only for Koreans
***** I agree with you, there was a huge backlash on SC2 when it came out because the micro aspect of Starcraft was dummed down from SC1 and became a lot easier for new players. There is no reason for Blizzard to dumb down this franchise even further just because some people lack the skills Starcraft demands for high level play.
rmyd027
backlash what?? it did better then sc1 ever did because of the micro being scewed back a bit making it more available to players using their intellect more (not much but a bit),
setting even more focus on the tactical aspect instead of pure micro would only be good for it
...
(learning how to do the same exact thing 2000 times with little to no brain activity does not mean high skill lvl.. just mean laming it enough and having half a brain while still not being bored to death by the mindless repetition...)
So battlecruisers can instantly teleport ANYWHERE on the map without vision? gg
Protoss: Nerf aswell as micro to punish people even more
Zerg: slight buff with small micro
Terran: LOL MICRO? WATS MICRO?
Terran has always to crazy micro in esport games. Havent you notice that? I suggest you watch more terran pro games to see how they are.
There's a reason why people hate Protoss 'Death Balls' and 'A moving', and I don't think you see it. Controlling a large number of infantry requires obscenely fast thinking and reflexes to dodge Banelings, Storms, Colossi, and several dozen other things that could vaporize your army.
But hey, that's a small price for playing a race with 'OP' Tier 1 units, right? Should be easy enough, even for YOU!
Hau Tak Leighton Tam Terran players dry off their resources making lots of infantry, which are going to be all killed, only to loose by running out of money. Kinda the same for the Zerg. While Protoss will invest way less because they are too resilient. The cost-benefit relation favors Protoss greatly. Furthermore, they have the biggest, strongest units, like the Mothership. With less, bigger units you can micro them better, and they hold off more time while doing the same ammount of damage, and on top of that, they recharge shields while off-combat.
Balance my ass.
Rodrigo Garduño i was talking about this video... which is why i commented on this video...
I like a lot of the new changes for all 3 races, but once again it looks like Terrans have the units that will be most likely become OP. Of course nothing has really been tested yet so we'll have to see. Love the new Zerg changes though. FOR THE SWARM!
One thing that I really miss from the BW pro games is the tank micro with the dropship. Hopefully, this is going to bring it back!
i bet my house the cyclon will be scrapped, it looks like those jack of all trade units that have no place in Starcraft.
This
Actually the Cyclone IS something that Terran needs TBH.. I didn't expect such a HARD COUNTER, but - anything is fine.. I actually LOVE the direction this is gonna take..
It's no longer T1 and T3 units, but all races will have T2 viable as well.. That being said - these things are the T3 counter of Terran that's T2 unit.. In other words - that thing is the deathball breaker - you lock those things and kite the Colossi instead of having to have immobile vikings do that
The Protoss changes seem/feel a bit lacklustre and vulnerable at many points - lesser CC and more micro for everything everywhere, but - we never know till we try TBH
I hope not. It actually seems really cool.
wizzzer1337 The Warhound says hello.
I bet mine that it will stay :D
Because it's a death-ball breaker - i.e. - something that dispatches from the Colossi without them having to sacrifice themselves or stand in place
Well this is really cool! I'm loving these changes to the Terran. I get the feeling some of them will be changed out during the beta testing, but who knows. Maybe just balance adjustments are all that are needed and we won't need to void them.
In my mind:
So... basically EVERYONE is now op?
The Cyclone is my new favorite Terran Unit, just needs a little nerf, like having little hp, or needing an upgrade to attack while moving
I predict... Battlecruiser OP.
Really though, that warp jump ability looks like it would be supremely hard to balance.
Maybe 3 minute cooldown?
Full energy already is like 3 munite cd. Also dont forget other race buffs
Maybe, although I don't think that would solve all the potential issues with it. They just seem like they'd be awfully good at harassment and delaying the opponent from attacking now. Late game, you could just use a few to warp one at a time into the enemy base every now and then to force them to pull their army back. Fixed defenses aren't really cost effective vs BCs, and leaving enough of your army at each base to kill a BC means your main force would be severely weakened.
I actually don't think that its going to be that overpowered because of the fact that battlecruisers are almost never used right now simply because they are to slow this would allow them to be mobile but not used for harassing as you wont have enough energy to do a double jump.
I´m pretty sure it will get reduced to a blink-like teleportation
Love how the video covered that Hercs can easily be countered by an army composition of having "a few" Zealots to defend Immortals and completely that neglect that Marines can defend tanks very effectively against Immortals in the Protoss video...
I love how people are calling Terran OP now, when for the longest time Terran have been on the backfoot in terms of balance.
Widow mines and Hellbats aren't that powerful guys. Swarmhost giving infinite locusts is. Oracle Harass is way too common.
"Terran have been on the backfoot in terms of balance." protoss would like a word.
alright, I'll bite. How are Terran better off then Protoss in terms of Balance? I'll take Oracle backstabs out the equation for this (seeing as they can turn every game into all ins for the first attack) and grant you Widow Mines being powerful (though subject to heavy nerfs)
@@thebladeofchaoswidow mines, tankivacs, and the cyclone
Those Battlecruiser and Siege tank changes ALONE are so sweet!
Teleporting battlecruisers, self-healing thors, faster banshees and drop harassing with sieged tanks? Ohh yeah... these are what terrans really needed, more OP bananza.
Herc looks a lot like a Warhound. Cyclone plays will look pretty interesting especially vs P.
Soooo, there is no way teleporting cruisers make it into the final game. Terrans can just scan+teleport a fleet of cruisers into an enemy base.
No scan, he said they don't need vision to teleport. :p
Why not? Teleporting Protoss units made it into the game. Maybe this time Protoss players would know how it feels like when going against units that can come from anywhere on the map.
Faze Fish i think he meant scans to find vulnerable areas and then teleport the cruisers.
banido Ok then, if that is what he meant then nevermind.
Whats wrong with that? BCs are really slow, and they'll take a while until they can teleport again. You can always have defensive units out of the range of a scan to ambush the BCs
omg, the battlecruiser warp jump is something that i've wanted since forever!
RIP Herc
I am not a pro player or anything so provably there is a lot of things I am not having into account, but the Cyclone looks pretty god dam OP; super long range, against both air and earth, and high speed ? Early game against Terran is going to be a freaking nightmare.
wtf is this? Terran is always OP.
because TerranBall
***** WTf?!?!?! Picking up Tanks in Siege Mode?! That's some bull....
Victor Gracia lol.. I'm saying. Zerg's really crazy too.
***** Protoss have always been my favorite! You have the game?! I wanna play with you now xD
moving siege mode. terran op
I can see the teleportation ability being used in campaign only. It does seem very OP to use in Versus.
Is it too late to be a beginner in this game?
+Rex Flores According to the forum you are unwelcome and should go play something casual like LOL.
I'll welcome you though.
+Rex Flores No. Starting now that the game is complete can actually be seen as the best time.
+Armored Interactive Inc so the forum won't welcome any newcomers to the genre and would rather play against people about their skill. that's not good if you want a growing fanbase.
punch3870 Indeed, but the forum claim themselves "hardcore" and stated they are the only population necessary to keep the game gong. "Casual" just needs to pay the money and not play.
Don't ask me why, I'm just telling you what's happening there.
Armored Interactive Inc No wonder they hate new players!
Loving the bronzies jumping the guns.
Dear God... teleporting battle cruisers and cyclones: massive range, ground and air attacking high-speed units which don't need to stop to attack.... Why not just give the terran race an upgrade which costs 50/50 and takes 30 seconds..? the upgrade provides a new ability at any terran command center called "win". Press it to win.
+Nauman Javed shut up butthurt protoss player ....
i think my heart dropped when i saw battle cruisers warp in. I'm in love all over again lol
The cyclone is designed to be an Anti-Noob-Unit I take it?
It fills a lot of roles, definitely fills that one.
At least rename it. Ugh. That's not even... ugh.
Think it's meant to counter units like the colossus, now Protoss can't just death ball a move and win
I like that battlecruisers are starting to feel like the starships of science fiction. .. but anywhere on the map??? At least have a fixed range to teleport, or add some debuff to the BC after tping, maybe both. The banshee speed upgrade also seems pretty gosh darn OP to me
80% of these changes are removed as of 2020 lol
I like the new Marauder animation, and also 0:30 Nova was in the armoury
tvt is going to be ridiculously micro intensive now lol no more marine tank
Sieged Tanks can actually be microed for once now :D
Mike Hawk Yep. Everyone is bitching I think it's about time Terran got something better that prevents tanks being sitting ducks with slow retreat. Protoss are all crying coz they will no longer be able to A move win and Zerg are crying coz they now cannot just baneling bust a whole bio army as easily.
Paul Lear Zerg can A move into mines? Since when?
***** Please explain where I actually said they do?
***** he said toss not zerg
I like how most of these things got nerfed (cyclone) or never made it (herc) I know there’s one in coop but still
im here in 2022, what happend to the Herc?
so.... herc is a pretty big unit like a marauder... why didnt it drag the puny zergling towards itself instead of somehow dragging its massive self towards it?
I feel like Blizzard is getting more and more like "yolo, lets just put in some really fun stuff in our games. These new units and abilities are completly dope.
Its to flame hype.
they can't stay static and nerf a unit every time people says OP.. they at least need to put some new stuff, and from there, balance it off.
Which is what they should do, its what made BW so fun
I was thinking if the medivac, on the new update, can unload all of the units at once. Either all marines drops, or mixed army such as tanks, marines, marauders at once. I dont know if this is too OP for the game but I think blizzard should try to consider this. And what if the medivac have some kind of limited weapons once its used, it'll never reload. Like having a 3-round powerful missiles capable on dealing up to 300 dmg to single unit, or maybe just one shot missile capable to kill a single unit no matter how much HP the target has.
All Avilo's whining didn't go unheard apparently, changes to immortals, tanks, thors and bc's all seem to be to make mech more viable especially in tvp. Seems a bit too strong but should be fun to see how it unfolds.
I'm not terran, but I take it that most terran players enjoy a good 'ol whine regardless of game balance state. So listening to Avilo's sonorous voice on stream would be akin to hearing masterfully composed classics by Mozart. He speaks straight to their whining hearts, it's almost romantic Kappa.
***** I'm Terran and I think the whole Avilo thing is more of a joke than anything else.
Definitely not a bit "too strong" (everything in this video is weaker than stuff that Z/P have had since beta), but good changes.
mech was under-utilized before Avilo started whining FYI.
Holy Crap, battle cruiser teleport sounds both OP and awesome!
All i want is a simple air Unit that can attack air and ground units at the same time, like in Starcraft 1. I dount want more funky units with hooks or transformers. Why cant they be a Remake Version from Starcraft 1 for Starcraft 2 with all the old units made by Blizzard? or just a "non esport" mode for normal people with simple untis like the ones from Starcraft 1. Blizzard is only making games for esport cracks
Sc1 is not Sc2. Sc2 is a complete different Game. This is why there a only a few sc1 unit in. SC2 Meta is completly diffrent.
They are bringing such a mode. It will be like the campaign, but coop and in scenarios. There will be all known units from the campaign to choose from and upgrades for them.
Victor Alexandru who is "they"? is blizzard making a starcraft 1 mod? an when will it be realesed?
Daniel B. Blizzard is doing a thing in Starcraft 2, the same way they do Archon Mode.
It will be a 2 player coop mode where you do scenario (campaign - like) missions. You will have a new xp bar that will award new units (including broodwar and starcraft 2 campaign ones) and upgrades for them, in order o do additional missions, and upgrade even more. Think of it as a coop campaign with no big story. It's called Allied Commanders. You will see info on it on the Legacy of the Void site.
there is a game mode with sc1 units. its called starbow... its in the sc2 arcade.. idk i only play ladder so yea. cyclones better get scrapped... i dont think 1 ultra equals 1 cyclone -___-;;
exciting stuff - that new battlecruiser ability might be game breaking though, what with starting positions of competition maps already known to players
I am confused isn't zerg known for their mobility? I think you guys got confused somewhere in your changes. Terran now the most mobile race. marine maurader stim speed, medivac boost, banshee speed boost. herc grapple, reaper cliff jumping, cyclone attacking while moving, battlecruiser teleport, siege mode tank dropping. I feel like I am missing one. But wow.
PS Thor already had auto healing anywhere on the map. It is called a mule.
Zerg are known for being...the swarm.
Only one faction can move their buildings. I'll let you figure out which race is about mobility
So, this wasn't mentioned, but I'm guessing the cyclone is a Factory unit? Although, it's designed to counter stalkers (too bad terran doesn't already have a unit to counter stalkers, like something called a marauder...), so it might be a barracks unit.
What makes Terran can teleport when Protoss cannot, It doesn't make sense. If BattleCruiser can do it, Carrier should able to do it as well. Actually all Protoss units should able to teleport to anywhere without vision!
I just thought - the way you could nerf Cyclone's ability a bit and still leave it interesting is to change when cooldown is triggered. If it will trigger after targeted unit is killed, player disables it, changes target or it goes out of range - player wouldn't be able to spam it.
Look for "OP" in the dictionary and there's a picture of a Terran
Omg. While there is, of course, going to be a lot of balancing to do I am actually really stoked about these ideas. I love them and can't wait to try it out for myself.
Terran has best new forces. RIP protoss.
Liking the changes I'm seeing. More options, more micro, more interesting plays. Really like the new battlecruiser, kinda incentivising having a standing fleet at the base, to keep them alive long enough to have energy to warp as well as masking numbers, then you can bring them all in for large fights. Comes at the cost of some yamatos, but it could be interesting. Hopefully it means we see some more of them, because they are always a joy when they come out. Like carriers.
I really like the BC change, finally you can micro weak ones away.
Now building BCs will be viable
Yeah where’s my HERC now?
Dat Battlecruiser...
Are you SURE this is a Protoss expansion?
Just saw through all 3 races.... Seriously...? I mean SERIOUSLY?
Is this a Protoss-focused expansion or another Wings of Liberty?
It's wings of the swarm
it's Wings of Legacy
Love the new changes! Can't wait for the beta!
OMFG BATTLECRUISERS MOTHER OF OP
The Herc seems interesting, but not so sure about the cyclone.. I like the Siege Tank changes as well as the Biscuit Crusier changes. This will be interesting indeed
I don't understand the siege tank changes. Terran have the easiest time harrassing with widow mines, hell bats, ravens, medivacs. If this goes through, the seige tank firing speed needs to be drastically reduced.
Cyclone feels like a unit mech needed - a fast, reliable hit-and-run unit capable of dealing with air targets (mech never had reliable anti-air from the Factory).
Merc... doesn't feel like a Terran unit at all. It's like... from another universe or a different game entirely. Looks fun to use, though.
Why they get rid of the herc?
+Jay Bisky Because of the Spiderman copyright strike
+Jay Bisky according to the starcraft wiki, it overlaps with the hellbat's (bulky close range of the terrans) and zealot's playstyle (charge attack).
It also mentioned that there was another dev phase of the HERC that made it a combat builder, but they scrapped that one too.
Kenneth B Yes, I stated that earlier. :I
Nah, Spiderman just gave them a copyright strike,
Isn't the cyclone exactly the same as the stealth tank from Command&Conquer?
If Blizzard is interested in making massive profit, they should not let Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void become too difficult to play.
Casual gamers, which do not have well micro skills, are going to be the biggest group of money paying customers!
When the game expansion requires too much skill, especially related to micro, then casual gamers will be scared away from buying the final version of Starcraft 2 Legacy Of The Void!
Jedi Master Pong Krell
Enough with making games for casual players only. If there is no difference between players who has played for years and those that just begin, Legacy of the void will die out just as HOTS.
+Jedi Master Pong Krell That's what Angry Birds is for, dude. Starcraft and other RTS games have always been about high skill caps and strategy.
I saw this, and I was like:
"Dafuq? Unless the other classes get this massive boost, Terran is invincible."
BATTLE CRUİSER OPERATİONAL :DDD
I don't get it. Every time I click on the link to Sign Up for Beta, it brings me to a page having to do with that, but then when I click the button on that page that says Sign Up for Beta, it brings me to a page where I choose what Betas I want to play. It doesn't bring up a page to directly sign up for this Beta. I sure hope by having the SC2 Beta checkmarked, I get to play the Beta when it comes out. But my impression from this was that I would be able to play the Beta right now. I don't even see a scheduled date for the Beta to open up either so I'm now wondering if I missed the Beta or something.
this game was made by humans. so, its why terrans anyway op.
Terran gets to OP units, super easy drop harass with the siege tank, REPAIRING without mules/scv's, and all the limits of blink and recall go to the most OP unit, the BC
in game is not HERCs
It is removed
+Kukuku i know but why
erls good I am not 100% sure but he was too similar to the Hellbat. And he was good against Lings and Banelings.. Soo maybe that was too strong. But they got another Unit.
+Kukuku maybe
Finally. The Battlecruiser warp is way overdue. So looking forward to it :D
HaHAHAHAA Oh! No! Who thought of these ideas? They're so ridiculously bad for balance!
Who likes the idea of: supply depot DROP not just doubles the supply granted by the building but also increases its health from 400 to 600? Though, it should only increase the maximum health, so you have to repair it to actually make a stronger wall and it should increase repair costs by 50 to 100% also. Would be a good addition to mech and because of this more players would bring scvs to repair their army also. This way it won't just be an emergency option but possibly a tactical one.
Cyclones look sweet. But 'Herc'?
That's the stupidest goddamned name for a Terran unit conceivable. It's like the dude was in the middle of announcing the brand new Terran *HERRRKK* and got a stroke.
I hope they can think of something better to name them. Hell, if I was in charge of designing a powered armor designed for hook-shotting fools and punching things in the face, I'd call them Scorpions or Tysons or some such
Herc is common short form for Hercules... You'll hear it in real militaries as well. I actually liked the name
I know what it stands for. I still think it sounds silly.
Tengou I'm sure the dev team are heartbroken that you think it sounds silly.
Say 'Terran Herc' twenty times. Listen to yourself saying it twenty times. And then tell me it doesn't sound a little weird.
Just a random thought: There's a lot of AI coming out of the Terrans lately. Maybe it's just because I watched Age of Ultron over the weekend, but wouldn't it be cool in Starcraft III they introduced a fourth race, the Machines?
Zerg evolve, Terrans build mechs, Protoss build up psyonic power, and how about AI build on themselves, similar to Ultron. Each upgrade is a significant improvement on the old design?
Probably a horrible idea with no consideration to balancing or anything else, but I think it would be cool.
Dropping Sieged Siege tanks? Reminds me of back in Brood War where I would take over an scv as protoss, build a shitload of siege tanks, siege them then use the arbiter recall to call them all inside the enemy base...seems kinda op to me...(There's a reason that tactic was fixed in later patches)
I personally wish that Battlecruisers didn't get the tele without vision, but it wouldn't change much. You'd get a slight warning if you are looking at the right area from the scan before the jump. By no means is that enough time to get your units into any suitable position, and if you weren't paying attention it's essentially the same thing. I don't get what changing it would really do guys. Can someone explain that to me?
Also the Cyclone seems like a little bit TO hard of a counter. Terran need something like it, agreed, but it seems just a tad OP...
Did anyone notice that at 1:08 the Marauders can launch grenades out of both their arms at the same time?
Terran will always be the skill cap race. Love it.
So glad they added the Herk had a really hard time in the game countering 3 min Banel/ Zerg rush as a terran
That Cyclone's radius is mental.
siege tank will be so broken and OP man. You know what those high Micro player will do. (one siege tank can wipe out an entire roach army.)
Not only is it more micro, but different types of micro. (Other than just moving damaged units back, etc.) Micro is now unit-specific. Very interesting, but it makes StarCraft micro even more difficult than it already is.
Forgot to ask - what about Reapers? They see no usage whatsover beyond the super early game, some kind of mid-to-late game upgrade would be nice.
Right now, you just scout with them (they deal pitiful damage, so you're lucky if you kill a single worker) and then just forget they exist. A waste of a cool unit.
Those Battle Cruisers display shadows on the ground before there's a logical mass in the air to provide such shadow... rather have an energy status in the air like a warp in Protoss would have
One thing that would be incredibly awesome would be if they made the nuke more useful. It is by far the coolest thing in the game, and it is rarely used. It sounds like one of their main goals is to increase harassment. What better way to do that than with improved nukes. Maybe make them stronger, or cut down the time it takes to drop, or at least increase the distance a ghost can do it from significantly so it is harder to find them. They could also use a good anti air mech on the ground. Maybe even bring the Goliath back. The Viking is weak. They brought the Lurker back. Why not the Goliath too?
2018 and still waiting for this Herc
thank god we got the shaft for HOTS idc whats balanced or w/e, its fun to get new units and we literally only got 1 new unit (hellbats don't count) I just hope they can find a way to balance it so nerds wont complain and get us to receive only 1 new unit again
Ah man I was really wanting a SPECTRE!!!!
Herc:
Is okay can see something like a full bio compisition....but I wonder if it would have stim (don't like this unit much looks like something they just scrap up and put together)
Cyclone: may in fact replace Viking in TvP
Battlecruiser warp ability:
Just there keep us just drooling but may not actually see play. ppl talk about warping into the base but why would you do that, to easily have them destroyed by canons and spores. It could however be used on the battlefield, but it all depends on how much energy it will have 125energy would allow you to warp but it would mean you would have to wait a little longer to warp out or use yamato canon.
Siege tank pick ups are going to make TVT brutal and alot more fast paced loving the idea