Dr. Coceancig's Opinion on Skeletal Expanders (MSE, MARPE, EASE)
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2024
- Taken from • Jaw Surgery & The Mode...
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MSE changed my life. I can breathe through both nostrils 90% better, I have boosted energy to match it, my sleep is much better and I think aesthetically I look significantly better as well.
unreal... good for you
How old are you? In the video Paul said it’s helpful in younger folks.
@@MVMM-yo8rz 27. Started treatment at 25
@@bed7610 Who was your provider? Did you have corticotomy?
@@UsamaKhan-xs9do in BC Canada. Yes I had corticopuncture
Hmm, I understand his point about fixing small jaws 3 dimensionally, but to for him to say MSE does absolutely nothing is bit hard to believe honestly.
He does come off a bit proud and stubborn
He is saying opening up the nasal cavity does fix the obstruction.
I've had mse, did absolutely nothing.
@@MVMM-yo8rzdid he not say that it's 2 'holes' that are are moved wider apart with mse, that it doesnt help?
@@JMSsssssssIt helps with the input of air but if you have obstruction behind the tongue or your tongue is an obstruction (because your jaws are tiny), then MSE will do nothing.
Maybe it will help with nasal breathing during the day, but at night, it will be the same shit show.
I have more tongue space side to side and am able to get a better suction to breathe through my nose, but I still have poor sleep because everything settles when your head hits the pillow.
I dunno man. All I know is after doing it my nose almost never gets clogged now.
Same here
Just extending your upper jaw laterally will improve your breathing. I'm the living witness.
Where did you get it from if you don’t mind sharing.
Additionally, a little palate expansion almost cured my fibromyalgia Symptoms,. I don't suffer from chronic fatigue and muscle pain anymore. I think fibromyalgia Symptoms, is related to narrow palatal
@JawHacks - I'm disappointed you didn't push back on him when he said widening the palate doesn't do anything. He's basically saying that all people who perform MSE don't provide any benefit to their patients, or that they are just experiencing benefits from the placebo effect. It's an utterly ridiculous view to take. Insane imo.
Journalistic neutrality
1. He's not a journalist
2. Even if he were a journalist it doesn't mean you are not neutral to state a fact/idea to challenge the view of the person being interviewed@@darren3851
The Goal isn’t just the widen the maxilla , the Goal is to widen but more importantly the spilit of the maxillary suture, and that’s when it’s very effective
>gets licence removed
lol
Im tired of th doctors giving their "Opinion" on medical procedures and appliances. Give me facts and numbers not what you feel
Well said.
Appearently Dr Coceancig has a history of gaslighting patients. It makes sense when I hear what he says here, which is trying to convince people that expanding the rigid structures doesn't do anything for the airway because uhhhhh.... the structures are rigid or smt.
It is ridiculous now to think this guy has anything worthwhile to say, and he has been suspended after numerous complaints.
Really? Suspended? For what?
@@MA-dm4xynot taking care of patients infections for one. He left necrotic tissue in his patients. He also had his business closed because he didnt pay his rent. Really shouldn't be on this channel.
@@MA-dm4xyNot exactly known, I think, but a number of his former patients claimed this was due to a steady string of complaints.
Is he literally trying to convince the one guy who had positive airway results from MSE and dedicated his whole channel to it that all of it was just in his head? I guess "Dr." doesn't make you an expert at everything 🤷🏽♂️
Ron shared that he does snore, so MSE didn’t fix his obstruction.
Mse doesn't do shit
Or anything*
He is wrong .
He just got suspended from practice in Australia lol
I will be getting MARPE and MMA this winter with Dr Ting. Wish me luck
When expanding to mse, I think you must wear front➡️and top↗️ headgears
three dimensions expansion
1. lateral expansion ↔️
2. anterior growth of the middle face ➡️↗️
Sources : MewVector ➡️↗️ Orthodontic Orthotropics Headgear (Head Brace)
I don't believe that widening the palate would "do nothing".
It sounds hyperbolic what this guy is saying.
Yea, you can even see the physical changes from MSE to the face and nose. Maxilla is directly related to nasal volume.
So what are the specific alternatives to 3D expansion?
So MSE + surgery? I’m guessing you’d want to do MSE first in that case.
I’ve watched this several times and this is what he is saying…
Opening up the nasal cavity with MSE (or the like) doesn’t affect the space behind the tongue.
In small jaws, there will be obstruction behind the tongue, so nasal expansion won’t improve sleep.
I have been expanded with MSE and I breathe great while I’m awake and when I exercise.
He is right, however, about improved breathing being a sensation only… I do “feel” like I’m breathing better ONLY because the nasal passage (the input) has opened, but I still am not sleeping as well as I should. That is because I have small jaws/small airway and the soft tissue is blocking the air flow when I lie down.
This video should convince any adult that is pursuing lateral expansion, should also be pursuing jaw surgery as well.
Thank you!
Hundred percent
if spaces are opened in the teeth for the teeth to be brought forwards, you're getting saggital movement of the bite
@@jawleyCouldn’t that be more problematic when moving all the teeth to the front, creating more space in the back with the same amount of bone? Where does all the soft tissue go?
@@MVMM-yo8rz if the bite comes forward, the tongue comes forward which is a bigger culprit than the soft tissue, at that point you’d be better off losing weight.
This has all been taken out of context because people here are clearly super reactive. He said the airway behind the soft palate does not increase (and it doesn't with MSE), not the nasal floor. The maxilla is a component but it's not the full picture. He is talking about treating the patients problem in its entirety and not just that one aspect i.e. 3 dimensions... So, it would be misleading to tell people that MSE would help them if their airway is less than optimal based on their CT scans. We are referencing 2 structures that have to work in concert with one another and that is based on the patient. Everything without the look at a person's CT scans is simply conjecture and speculative. No amount of mewing will help you if your airway is restricted by your jaws incorrect position. This provides the most attractive and functional result.
When I get a really good suction with the tongue at the roof of the mouth and get a force which pushes the two halves of the maxilla away from each other, my one blocked/relaxed nostril is finally able to get air in. I get a sense of relief since I'm starting to get more oxygen.
What would that mean to him? To me this is contradictory to his explanation why expansion does nothing.
How old are you, assuming youre still in a growth phase for you to be able to do this?
@@MA-dm4xy This has nothing to do with growth, this is something that happens within 5 seconds of a really good suction for me. Right now I am not able to get any air through my right nostril. If we're to focus hard and get the suction to press my tongue hard up and to the sides, my right nostril will open up. But most likely since my palate is not wide enough I cannot do it effortlessly. I clearly have to my force inwards in my mouth compared to outwards which should be my tongues job. And this is clearly affecting my airways in my nasal cavity.
But I am 27 going on to 28. So my optimal window for real growth by myself is gone.
Came here to say this. I would like to have MSE but in the meantime I am using my tongue to press hard against my narrow palate, and I can feel that my sinuses open up when I do this. I've had pressure releases and my sinuses start draining.
At 1:40
Good thing you didn’t give him YOUR first hand experience with improved nasal breathing following MSE.
But he insists that “it doesn’t do anything”
He’s telling YOU this?!! 😂 his comment is laughable
Paul copeancig
In the last time their are a lot of new videos here with content that you don't want to hear with a freshly installed mse in your mouth...
But premolar extraction retraction ruins the nasal passages, right? So expanding with f.exp. MSE would/could fix that damage?
That’s so hypothetical and would totally depend on the individual. I had premolar extraction and there’s no way I would’ve expanded my maxilla. I already have massive cheekbones and my arch was fine. I’ve never had a high palate and that’s just my anatomy.
Guess what really 'does nothing'? Paul Coceancig! because HE IS SUSPENDED FROM PRACTICING!!!
Can’t wait for my consultation with Audrey Yoon in a month. She does MARPE for adults
What I would be more worried about is the huge gap between two holes as he described. Is that normal?
I think someone should explain to him that air doesn’t really flow through 2 separate “tubes” in the nose.
The air flows (more metaphorically accurate) thru a “box”.
MSE enlarges the “box” , MSE doesn’t just “separate tubes”
@Jawhacks
We need a Dr. Ting vs Dr. Coceancig video
There is no way that MSE's are ineffective when it does in fact provide more airway.
Also, I wish he talked about his license removed.
So…he is saying that if you increase the size of a box by pushing the walls wider. the VOLUME inside the now larger box remains unchanged?!
Even if the box had items inside of it, the “space” around those items would still increase.
I always thought this guy was 1/2 full of sht. Now I’m convinced of it.
he’s right, it’s only one piece of the the puzzle but it doesn’t do “nothing”
He is one of the best bimax surgeons in the world. The maxila and/or mandible needs to move forward in order for airway canal to increase in volume.
I doubt it , Kasey li is better . Also for him to say MSE doesn’t do anything , clearly shows that his brain lacks Critical thinking skills .MSE /EASE is very effective in treating sleep disorder breathing . But only when the maxillary suture spilits
@@yahyaelmi8435 $60,000, no insurance for expansion with no guarantee is better than a full fledge surgery fixing every aspect of narrow airway??? Lol yea u might be the one with screws loose. Also looking at your skulls anatomy it is objectively not true that only expanding one part cures sleep apnea 100% unless your only problem is nasal obstruction
Ron, can you talk about wisdom teeth extraction in jaw surgery - do good surgeons not extract them? If the answer is they still do, then damn the superiority of childhood orthodontics is not at all debatable.
If you remove your wisdom teeth your upper and lower jaw will recede into your face causing smaller airway
@@robyee3325 that's not what I asked...
@@mathfrom0to96 I’ve read that people get wisdom teeth implants before getting jaw surgery so that their jaw doesn’t recede. So I’d imagine that a surgeon that wants to remove your wisdom teeth during jaw surgery is probably not a good surgeon, as your jaw will eventually recede making the surgery a waste
good vid
I dont understand his perspective, and the ENT I met with at Mass Eye and Ear last week disagrees with him on nasal expansion. MSE expands the nasal cavity, not the nose. If the nasal airway is 2 separate 'holes', how is it that when you do a nasal rinse the saline goes in one nostril and out the other? Is everyone who experiences improved nasal breathing after mse lying? Maybe he doesn't explain himself well.
I think we all know that it's blatantly obvious that this guy is completely wrong. Surely he must know and is just straight out lying? Unless he hasn't even looked into it properly. But you don't even need to look into devices such as the MSE and EASE to see that they do split the suture and widen the palate.
There are so many CBCT before and afters on Reddit that show the nasal base has increase lol. I split mine recently and I can breathe through my nose while running, couldn’t do that before. I don’t think the placebo effect “magically” made my airway expand wide enough to breathe through my nose during rigorous exercise and in cold, dry weather.
@@FreerunnerCamilo Yeah and even Ron himself expanded his and has interviewed many people that have not only expanded, but expanded too much so now a cheekbone on one side of their face is now too far out compared to the other, because the upper palate is connected to the cheekbone. It's crazy how this guy in the video is just straight out cockily saying it's a bunch of crap.
How old are you and how did you expand your palate? Did you use a device?
@@clock6413 I’m 22 9 months, split 5 turns in and I have MSE with Dr. Newaz, he has a newer model or something, and it has been extremely effective at splitting for his patients apparently.
Listen, I don’t get all the hate here, but it’s fairly clear what he is saying about the primary airway passage being blocked behind the tongue. All air has to pass through that area and if it’s too small, you can’t breathe right, I don’t care how much you widen your nasal box. Now, if your airway is proven to be adequate in your scans then party on and do your thing. That’s really all he’s saying but y’all are taking this all out of context. Most people with narrow jaws tend to have recessive jaw traits too for lots of reasons. Everyone is different. I had a recessive jaw but my width and arches were/are fine. PS I do not know this Doctor or anything but what he says makes sense. The amount of time it takes to understand the structures of the face is staggering, so, unless you have a legit medical degree (not your google education), then stop acting like you’re the expert.
Has Coceancig addressed the allegations that he lost his medical license?
Surely there has to be some way we can help, he's probably the world's best jaw surgeon, and if he can't appeal this suspension then the jaw surgery community will have suffered it's greatest loss to date. Sad!
Whaaaaaaaat, r u for real? Sources?
@@MA-dm4xyits true
@@MA-dm4xy Search "Paul Lloyd Coceancig" via the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency's practitioner lookup tool, it's an official government registrar. You'll see that his registration status is clearly listed as suspended.
nice try paul
@@marcuslindstrom3467 you're simply wrong. He's the best of the best, no one else is in his league. Every surgeon has complications.
Imo way too biased to say they do nothing
"The stuff inside occupies the same volume"
But it doesn't, if you're expanding the volume by expanding the bone. If you're expanding the volume, how can "the stuff inside" occupy the same space?
yeah that guy is so stupid. kasey li does know it all better
It changes the bite and face from my experience with the device so to say it doesn't do something is crazy
All credibility gone out the window.
Incorrect IMO. Expansion produces subjective and objective improvement. Based on Bernoulli's principle, reducing nasal resistance should reduce collapsibility elsewhere.
did you deleted my comment
Why are we posting this? Do you realize his license has been suspended?
You change the bite make you have a wider smile!
, Why does he expand people in surgery?
If someone needs to expntion, it is better that they expntion before surgery, fewer complications make life easier for the surgeon
1:07 shows how unintelligible he is about maxillary expanders. Sure they might not provide the most forward growth, but some is better than none and definitely has a strong impact.
This "Dr." seems ignorant on this issue as well as on tonsils. He is a little bit too arrogant to my taste.