You guys put so much into this. It's crazy you went from 2 people working and editing 6 years ago to a whole team of 20 maybe more, podcasts and is official. Congratulations
Honestly, I’ve held small groups with their graphic bible series. This is so amazing to see, and may this ministry reach the ears and eyes of people unto the ends of the earth. Amen.
wow, honestly just wow! The separation of physics and metaphysics really just blew me away, honestly such a fresh perspective. "You are looking at a cookbook for instructions on how to grow food" is such a nail on the head analogy. Wonderful video as always, keep up the great work 🤍
Excellent content as usual, thank you! 00:00 Introduction 00:55 Modern view of "Earth" 02:58 Biblical authors' view of _'erets_ (Earth) 05:12 _Raqia'_ (most often translated as vault/expanse/firmament/space) 08:00 Hebrew words and their root letters 08:57 _Raqa'_ as a verb (instead of the noun _raqia'_ ) 10:30 _Raqia'_ as a solid dome 12:07 Waters as an obstacle (the _raqia'_ serves as a protective shield) 14:30 Didn't the _raqia'_ fall during the flood? (and has not been replaced since) 16:27 Where does the water in clouds come from? (above or below the _raqia'_ ) 18:13 The important theological claim 18:38 What does cosmology mean? 20:24 Metaphysics: If cosmology is a kind of knowledge, what is the meaning?
I love how you carefully explain that element of creation that so elegantly describes this special world that God made for us. Yes, we truly are at the center of His creation. Amen
Wow, Tim is an incredible scholar. I have never heard anyone explain anything with such depth, breadth, and clarity. I wish I could be in the classroom but I am SOO grateful this is being taught and given for free. This is more valuable than gold. Priceless teachings.
I am grateful for the questions that were asked because I too was a bit confused (still kind of am). That whole separation of the waters has long confused me. It's a bit clearer now, but God bless the students who were brave enough to express their need for clarification. Btw would have loved to hear the answer to the first lady's question about the water being held in reserve for a possible time of divine punishment. Thanks to the whole class. Tim's biblical enthusiasm is infectious!
There is mentioned in Rev. 4:6 and 15:2 a "Sea of Glass." This is what Tim was referring to. The sea of glass we see in Rev. is the floor of heaven. So when God separated the waters above from the waters below, the sea of glass became the waters above and the waters of the earth became what was below. In between those are the heavens. The skies directly above the earth and the universe "space." This was what the female was referring to when she used the term "firmament."
Psa 150:1 Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament. Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.' The rainbow of Genesis 9 appears to have the same shape as the firmament, above which the waters of the flood originated - hence the reminder it is solid and the waters will not destroy all flesh again. It's not gone.
I have waited so long for a rightly divided, unapologetic Christian explanation of day 1 and 2 in the Genesis account. Thank you gentleman. I truly am rejoicing. God truth is the reality that has been buried for too long.
Will forever love and appreciate you guys for being so formative to my understanding of God and His word. God bless you to the end of the eretz and beyond the heights of the raqia! ❤️
Thank you SO much! I love this kind of Bible study (Far more than 'what does it mean to YOU?' type questions). I don't have the skill, time, or focus to truly learn Hebrew, Koine/Greek, Aramaic, etc. to delve into the original language of the bible, but I know that a LOT of disagreement and misunderstanding stems from ignorance of the depths and finer shades of meaning of what the text actually says. I rely on others who DO have that linguistic knowledge and perspective to clarify scripture for me. Thanks once again!
My friend this is incredible!!! I have recently found this channel and wow!!!!! I would listen to every study on every verse. You guys are incredible!! May God bless you sooo much!
We use classroom for our Bible study group and we are doing Heaven and Earth right now. Classroom has totally changed my life! So grateful for the ability to access this level of education for free. I don’t know if I’m a weirdo, but I also find it fun!
Tim, this course is just awesome. I love the sincerity and clarity put into it. Thank you for sharing this with us! I can't wait to see the next video.
The Raqia or separation between the ocean above and below could be a description of the earths atmosphere. The earths atmosphere keeps us safe and enclosed. Outer Space would be the place above the Raqia. According the Wikipedia, the water in Outer Space is 25-50 times the volume of earths water. It all ties together perfectly.
As for the discussion on The Flood (14:00), water for Noah's flood probably came from both above and BELOW. Supposedly, there are vast amounts of water underneath our feet... even underneath the oceans. Genesis 7:11 says that on the day the flood began, there was a “breaking up” of the fountains of the great deep which 'burst open'.
Yeah there's three HUGE underground oceans (more water than all the oceans combined)... All the water from the food had to go somewhere... The deepest part buts up against the core... And my theory is that, that's where the leviathan lives since it has indestructible skin... But that's just me...
yes, the waters that caused the flood came from above from the windows of heaven and also from below the fountains of the deep. Then God closed the windows and the fountains.
so good to hear you delving into this. I'm convinced that what nasa, hollywood and textbooks have been instilling in our minds about our Earth for several decades isn't fully correct, and many great minds outside of the mainstream have been showing this as well fortunately. We can see the wonders of God's creation when we let that programming go and explore where we are. You took important steps in that direction.
I think you're making the mistake Tim says that people often make. You're trying to use a cookbook to teach you how to grow food. PHYSICally, the Earth is round, but METAPHYSICally, the earth is three-tiered and flat with a dome. Just because ancient people thought the earth was flat doesn't mean that the earth is actually, physically flat.
@@amosmgz hmm. When looking into other channels that discuss this deeply from a biblical and scientific perspective, we get such a broader view. The Christian channel Celebrate Truth and Parable of the vineyard are very good. And Eric Dubay as well. There are many mind-blowing layers involved in the global model deception.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 , the verse you have quoted, Job 37:18, is a beautiful support for Tim Mackie's point. The author of Job clearly thought of the sky as a firmament; something metal-like that is beaten to be flat like metal. Not the idea we have of an atmosphere with an ionosphere and space above. Although the word in Job 37:18 may be using a different Hebrew word. Still, thank you for pointing it out as support for Tim's point.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 the Hebrew is comparing the strength (toughness)of the sky to a cast mirror (looking glass) not its hardness/texture or substance. There's no accompanying claim that the sky is physically Metal or has an actual hard surface. It's explicitly a simile talking about how strong the heavens are... which they undoubtedly are in their own way, but especially phenomenalogically in their role as a divinely established barrier between what's above from what's below. But no one is saying enoch or some other ascended figure touched it and reported it's "hard". Hardness is an inferior translation in context.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 but the word doesn't mean hard. Saying that the cast laver was hard therfore the sky is as well doesn't follow. The Word like is used. That means simile is employed, and "like" things are "like" in specific ways established by context. In this case: as strong as a cast mirror... strength is what's being compared, not whether it's as reflective as the mirror, or metal... if it's bronze, are they saying it must be polished or it tarnishes? No. It's a very truth being conveyed in a poetic way.
Okay this is once again a brilliant classroom discussion but after 19:05 I could only think about how someone seriously needs to make a cosmetic brand called _cosmic_ or _cosmos_
This is amazing - Shemayim I learned in this video means heaven - I remember from previous study that MAYM (OR MAYIM) means WATER!!!! There has to be a connection!!!
I’m confused about the rain part of this class. Everything else is great and amazing but Tim was speaking as if the water cycle didn’t exist and that cloud are just poured into by water above the clouds but the water above the clouds are are free from droplets of condensed moisture.
I am 73. When I was in school growing up we were taught in science classes that the clouds come from evaporating water from the ocean, lakes and rivers. How does that fit in with all this?
The earth is flat with a firmament above separating the waters above from the water below. The clouds we see are from evaporating water from within the dome and is also described in Job 36:27-28 as the hydrologic cycle.
Heaven is a representation of the higher mind, which is connected to the heart. Move the letter h in the word heart behind the t and you get earth. Earth is 1 representation of the heart.
When discussing origins, realize the difference between the theories Uniformitarianistism versus Catastrophism. The global flood described in Genesis is a global event.
Here's something you probably never considered: That which was done on the second day was not described by God as good, as was declared on the other days of creation. A necessary separation took place, but not "good." I think it has to do with the "living waters" that Jesus offers the woman at the well.
Does not our physics say that matter, including water, has three states of solid, liquid and gas? Thus a cloud is water in its gaseous state. So water is in the cloud. It can cool and condense from a gas back into a liquid. A liquid we call drops of rain.
@@OGKenG Thanks for your comment. The issue becomes is the Bible correct when it goes against modern physics. We can put our faith in the book or in our science. Eiither choice requires faith, does it not? My faith is in the book.
@@leostokes So, when people take actual photos of the globe earth with no solid dome over the top of a flat surface, you're going to say that the Bible is correct? I think you are misinterpreting what scripture says. Actual physical evidence of the earth being a globe is better than the misinterpretation of scripture written by people who never left their Mediterranean home.
@@OGKenG Perhaps the water is behind the people with the camera. Or maybe the water is in the form of thin clouds that are not seen by the camera. Perhaps the "dome" is not solid but merely the will of God. I do not know. But it takes faith in science to refute the Bible. My faith is the Bible. And I am a scientist. A mathematician. I believe the sum of two odd numbers is always even. That is not in the Bible.
@@leostokes So, when people say there is a solid dome over the earth that no one can escape and mankind sends rockets to the moon, thereby destroying any claim that there is a solid "firmament," which is right? What I'm saying is that the INTERPRETATION that we are inside God's snow globe is a wrong interpretation. Three thousand years ago, no one could understand that the sky wasn't a solid dome overhead and that stars are giant balls of gas in space or that planets were large rocky or gaseous objects orbiting our own star. Heck, they didn't even have telescopes. Science expands our knowledge and we learn more. Those Christians who believe that everyone is lying to them (NASA, schools, the government, pilots, sailors, etc) just to hide God from us are living a complete fantasy and delusion.
It can be conceived as due. Also looking at is as Universal Creation. Matter formed from waves. The concept of waves materialized from the understanding of water and it’s motion.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ - Matthew 7:21-23 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes s1n and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 13:40-42
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
Especially when viewing the waters and land in light of the biblical poetry and metaphor series, this makes so much sense. So no flat earth. The firmament was God dividing the forces of chaos (waters) and creating a pocket of order (land) for life to thrive. The Emperor approves.
If God stopped Nimrod from building the tower into the heavens then why would he allow rockets to go there? Also this passage is a difficulty. Jer 31:37 Thus says the LORD: “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” Does this mean if NASA finds the height of the heavens from day 2 that God will cast Israel off?
I understand that there are powers beyond our understanding, but when you talk about raqia and what holds back the waters above... how can I reconcile the differences in these biblical concepts with the astronomical and scientific? I understand that it's really not that important, what's important is my belief that God is my creator and it doesn't matter that I can comprehend it. Do you think there is any point in trying to reconcile the differences at all? In other words, do we need to discredit what we are taught in school? Surely scientific knowledge and the biblical cosmology can co-exist right? I just need someone to say Yes I guess. But in the end, whatever the answer may be to those questions, it doesn't change my view of God and my spiritual struggle to stay humble and content in God's love.
@jaejoo9910 what we are thaught in school is just meant for us to navigate the world, and find a job or a form sustenance. But if you want to reconcile the bible with the world we live in, don't think in scientific perspective but think in what your observable eye can see physically, not what you observe through scientific means such as through a microscope or through a telescope etc etc. Now the other thing you must understand is that God doesn't speak clearly, he never does speak clearly. So the whole bible that you are reading is God not speaking clearly. That is why now you need the help of the holy spirit to put it all together for you. Because for example Genesis 1 and creation God only gave us the information he wanted for the purpose he wanted. He did not give the whole deal = not speaking clearly. So you need the holy spirit to be able to understand what God is doing. Also if you want to understand him, initially at first, don't try to tie in the physical comoslogy to his word. Just try to understand his word separately and don't try to reason with it. Just try to understand what he is saying as he is saying it. Once u are able to do this, you will begin to understand what God means to say rather what you think God is saying.
God makes his Word loud and clear! We can try to interpret the Bible through our own feelings or parameters, but those are OURS, not God's! We must take care not to go outside the Word and be willing to take His Word literally. Others are metaphors, but the Lord lays out very clearly what happened in the Bible. Seven day creation, God born as a man, His death and resurrection, new heaven and new earth. Certainly it takes study to understand the hard parts of the Bible. Creation and evolution as a comparison are the starting points by which we see the world, with a Biblical creation perspective guiding us as Christians. But that study must come from what the Bible says and what we can learn from it. The Holy Spirit can and DOES speak to us, but our hearts can lie to us, too! Jeremiah 17:9 NIV [9] The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? But God's Word is infallible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV [16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [17] so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
looks simple: we all see there is men's kingdom: earth and waters (under and above the earth) and heaven (where birds fly) below the firmament (rakia, second sky)... above the firmament is God's kingdom: we cann't see (except people like Stephan, Paul,..): but looks like there are also: earth like (firmament), waters and sky (third sky) hope we all will see that place, where Jesus prepared mansions for eatch of us
Psalm 104:13 from your abode you watered the mountains. Ever thought of where the water from a waterfall come from? Yes it comes from the mountains but where in particular within the mountain and it doesn't seem to run out. Think about it
Question: If the biblical authors use "ancient physics", which we today would consider scientifically inaccurate, why do we trust their metaphysical conclusions? As an example, if someone made the argument "Because God built a solid dome around us, therefore he is really powerful and cares for us", then I would respond with "Since the premise is false, the conclusion does not necessarily follow". I'm not arguing against the Bible here, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this topic. Feel free to respond. Thanks!
Try also Dr John Walton (expert on ancient neareast texts)… books & UA-cam lectures - another interesting perspective to help us modern minded, scientific age people to grasp what these ancient texts were communicating.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 Thanks for your response! What I still ask myself is, "How can I know that the ancient hebrews' meta claims are true when their cosmology claims are not?"
@trapd00rspider Thank you for sharing your thoughts! The Case for Christ is a great book, and I am a frequent viewer of InspiringPhilosophy as well, although I have noticed that his views differ from BibleProject on some points. Your last part about Jesus resonates with what I've been thinking lately. If he wasn't raised from the dead, there would be no reason for me to take the metaphysics of the Hebrew scriptures seriously. They would still be interesting to read but no more than that. However, I am still wondering about passages that make arguments based on, for instance, the historicity of Adam and Eve, something that I would consider part of the "physical" statements of Genesis rather than the "metaphysical". Such as Mat 19:4-6 or 1 Tim 2:11-15. So I would say that the new testament authors "founded their understanding of God on their cosmology" as you put it. But maybe I am stretching the meaning of the term cosmology here.
Hey David, the question you raise is a very important one. As the Bible says a little leaven leavens the whole loaf. So I think the essence of your question is spot on. Truth be told I am a Bible, believing evangelical Christian, so parse what I say, but I believe the Bible itself can withstand the rigors of scientific and philosophic inquiry.
Continued… So one possible solution is to argue that the cosmology present in Genesis chapter 1 reflects a much deeper understanding rather than an ancient historical one. That is to say there was a conjoining of the metaphysical, and the ontological in ways that are not present today. That is to say, if we except the notion that metaphysical entities exist than the epistemological justification rest upon whether we are consistent with the use of the term or terms. I argue that the Bible is consistent. Specifically, it may be argued that the word firmament Raquia also is a reference to the “sea of glass” in Revelation. Why is this important? It is important because the firmament will represent a division between the metaphysical and the purely physical. But by definition, the metaphysical is outside the realms of empirical observation. However, we can see that the Bible is consistent in the use of the term Rakiyah. And this is not merely a question of “Faith“ has some have defined it
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I don’t think that everyone is understanding what’s happening here. 😅 Maybe you’re not familiar with Tim’s style. I see some comments getting excited about revering this creation account as literal. Tim (and Bible project in general) has a great respect for the biblical author’s intent and understanding. He’s bringing to light their ancient understanding of the universe and the physical world, but also not claiming Genesis 1 to be a literal account of creation. In fact, he’s saying we too often misread that into the text - it’s not claiming to be a science book. I love how he summed it up - using their understanding at the time, they’re making theological claims about the nature of God. This doesn’t necessarily mean that truly the world was created in 7 days. Our takeaway should be that God created a good ordered world for his image-bearing humans to flourish in and rule over. You can certainly dispute that too, but that’s Gen 1-2’s basic claim, so that would be the focus of what to dispute.
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
I bristle whenever somebody uses the phrase "biblical's author's intent and understanding" because it is a major red flag that whatever somebody is trying to teach is about to contradict the Bible. That phrase gives the impression that the words in the Bible came from men's opinions and not God, and thus leaves everything they wrote up to ppl's personal interpretations.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 oh interesting. I get it. I used to too. Scripture is God breathed and inspired but he clearly used many many humans to bring it into being. And He’s so powerful and detailed, that he also used their intentions as they designed the scrolls to communicate His ultimate story of redemption. For example Paul had specific intent and understating when writing his letters. So did Jeremiah when his prophecies were written. God used all of it. Do you follow Bible Project at all? I saw the rest of the long multi session class that this video clip is from and it dives deeper into this concept. Give it a try! ☺️
So sad when "teachers/leaders" of GOD'S word speak against the validity or truth of it!!! Unfortunately it's the direction so many "Mainstream churches" are going these days "progressive Christianity " is like lukewarm water in the Father's mouth and as scripture says it will be spit out. Those that read the biblical creation model & account as it reads can't possibly read it as the anti GOD, millions of years, evolutionists spinning balls in infinite nothingness THEORY....
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 it's not either or, but both and. Scripture is clearly God breathed, but its purpose is to communicate to mankind in a context he understands and when we read anachronistically and then pretend we're being objective we're missing the divine meaning in favor of trying to svore sectarian points... sticking to what the point the audience could understand, in context, gets us closer to what's truly timeless and infallible in scripture, and once we've condensed these core ideas we can then apply them in our context reliably. You should always want to know what scripture meant to he authors and the audience. Divorcing it from such isn't how you prevent error, its the pregnant veering ground for every cult in history. Yes people use that appeal to pull a reverse UNO card and make some BS progressive case afterward, they aren't wrong because it's wrong to search put original intent... They're wrong because they're using that added step as a means to play 3 card monte and hide their prejudice in the complexity of their analysis, which calling everyone else prejudiced. But make no mistake, their stated excuse for doing this is valid, it's theor unstated ideological commitments that invalidate their hermeneutic.
If you do, (I hope you do) do it alongside Bible project resources like these videos or their podcast. It has completely elevated and deepened all at once my understanding of the Bible.
11:30 Those the passage implies the water above are the clouds? Or did the authors initially meant there is something like an ocean beyond the sky? Are clouds in the comprehension of the authors part of the water above or part of the sky separating the water above and the water below? Edit: I guess this is answered at 14:20 💁🏾♂️
And, he answered wrong. Evaporation causes water to form in the sky as clouds which then produces rain. Rain doesn't come from clear skies. That just violates physics.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 Care to show me this solid dome that holds water above? And, if the water is above the dome and God is above the dome, doesn't that make your version of God under water? You worship Poseidon?
So is it fair to say that the "raqia" is not actualy earths fermament, but rather a conceptual representation of the fabric of space? separating space, and the matter within it, from the waters above outside of space/universe? This "waters" sounds a lot like the "premordial soup" in physics.
Jhis bro I haven't thought of that. My undergraduate thesis last year was probing the QGP with a string theory/AdS/CFT model. Cool, but I'd have to think more about it. Associating the "waters" as primordial soup seems to possibly pose problems with regards to the Heavens separating waters above and below. I would have no idea what that would mean, but it doesn't seem in favour of a QGP-view. Nevertheless, I think we should exercise caution trying to read our models into the Bible.
I think this explains why expanse is a better translation than firmament, aspecially as firmament is itself such an idiosyncratic word, applied somewhat anachronistically when employed. Expanse fits the ACTION of the spreading or hammering out without overly relying on speculations of WHAT it metaphysically IS. The Mesopotamian imagery might facilitate that, but scripture never relies on trying to flesh this out beyond the phenomenalogical, except when lapsing into the poetic, which isn't the same thing.
Linguistically and culturally sound; historically a bit lacking. The Greeks worked out that the earth was more or less spherical well before the birth of Christ, and it was taken for granted by the time of Augustine, at least in scholarly circles. (Augustine refers to the globe in _The City of God,_ as I recall.) Now, they generally supposed the other hemisphere was all ocean (this is what the royal scholars argued against Columbus) and thus uninhabited. Dante assumes a spherical earth in his Comedy--he even knew that what we call gravity draws us toward the center of the earth (Inferno Canto 34). It's a fairly safe bet that Luke (and probably therefore Paul) knew the world was round.
It good to take into account, the earth isn't a sphere. Scripture doesn't support the theory of a sphere Earth. Also in Genesis 7:11 it mentions the windows of heaven were opened. Not the firmament collapsed. I highly recommend reading the book of Enoch it goes into depth regarding the atmosphere.
As a physics teacher and a Christian, i think it is important to separate the two simply because one is dealing with the Earth as it is ordered, and the other is dealing with the Earth as a tool to achieve a goal. Science merely describes how the world works, it does not tell anyone what to do with it. Society may decide to use nuclear physics to make a bomb, or to make large amounts of energy, or to generate nuclear medicine. That is not up to science to decide. Likewise. God created the world as a tool that he can use in whatever way he desires, even to the point of letting us decide what to do with it. The challenge God puts to us is, do we make the bomb, or do we make the medicine? Will you use creation to do God's work?
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion? The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
You guys put so much into this. It's crazy you went from 2 people working and editing 6 years ago to a whole team of 20 maybe more, podcasts and is official. Congratulations
Iskcon Temple. Citti Media. Sangam Talk. Alternative Media. Rang de Basanti Yt
Honestly, I’ve held small groups with their graphic bible series. This is so amazing to see, and may this ministry reach the ears and eyes of people unto the ends of the earth. Amen.
wow, honestly just wow! The separation of physics and metaphysics really just blew me away, honestly such a fresh perspective. "You are looking at a cookbook for instructions on how to grow food" is such a nail on the head analogy. Wonderful video as always, keep up the great work 🤍
Excellent content as usual, thank you!
00:00 Introduction
00:55 Modern view of "Earth"
02:58 Biblical authors' view of _'erets_ (Earth)
05:12 _Raqia'_ (most often translated as vault/expanse/firmament/space)
08:00 Hebrew words and their root letters
08:57 _Raqa'_ as a verb (instead of the noun _raqia'_ )
10:30 _Raqia'_ as a solid dome
12:07 Waters as an obstacle (the _raqia'_ serves as a protective shield)
14:30 Didn't the _raqia'_ fall during the flood? (and has not been replaced since)
16:27 Where does the water in clouds come from? (above or below the _raqia'_ )
18:13 The important theological claim
18:38 What does cosmology mean?
20:24 Metaphysics: If cosmology is a kind of knowledge, what is the meaning?
I love how you carefully explain that element of creation that so elegantly describes this special world that God made for us. Yes, we truly are at the center of His creation. Amen
Wow, Tim is an incredible scholar. I have never heard anyone explain anything with such depth, breadth, and clarity. I wish I could be in the classroom but I am SOO grateful this is being taught and given for free. This is more valuable than gold. Priceless teachings.
How much should this information cost? It's free. This is God's grace for those who seek Him. I'm so grateful for these videos. God bless Pastor Tim.
I want these to be hours long! So good!
I am grateful for the questions that were asked because I too was a bit confused (still kind of am). That whole separation of the waters has long confused me. It's a bit clearer now, but God bless the students who were brave enough to express their need for clarification. Btw would have loved to hear the answer to the first lady's question about the water being held in reserve for a possible time of divine punishment. Thanks to the whole class. Tim's biblical enthusiasm is infectious!
There is mentioned in Rev. 4:6 and 15:2 a "Sea of Glass." This is what Tim was referring to. The sea of glass we see in Rev. is the floor of heaven. So when God separated the waters above from the waters below, the sea of glass became the waters above and the waters of the earth became what was below. In between those are the heavens. The skies directly above the earth and the universe "space." This was what the female was referring to when she used the term "firmament."
Psa 150:1 Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.'
The rainbow of Genesis 9 appears to have the same shape as the firmament, above which the waters of the flood originated - hence the reminder it is solid and the waters will not destroy all flesh again. It's not gone.
I have waited so long for a rightly divided, unapologetic Christian explanation of day 1 and 2 in the Genesis account. Thank you gentleman. I truly am rejoicing. God truth is the reality that has been buried for too long.
I would love to be in this classroom engaging in these conversations with Tim. So thought provoking and interesting!
Citti Media. Sangam Talk. Alternative Media.
Tim is very big at what he does in he’s own personal way.
Will forever love and appreciate you guys for being so formative to my understanding of God and His word. God bless you to the end of the eretz and beyond the heights of the raqia! ❤️
Thank you SO much! I love this kind of Bible study (Far more than 'what does it mean to YOU?' type questions). I don't have the skill, time, or focus to truly learn Hebrew, Koine/Greek, Aramaic, etc. to delve into the original language of the bible, but I know that a LOT of disagreement and misunderstanding stems from ignorance of the depths and finer shades of meaning of what the text actually says. I rely on others who DO have that linguistic knowledge and perspective to clarify scripture for me. Thanks once again!
My friend this is incredible!!! I have recently found this channel and wow!!!!! I would listen to every study on every verse.
You guys are incredible!! May God bless you sooo much!
We use classroom for our Bible study group and we are doing Heaven and Earth right now. Classroom has totally changed my life! So grateful for the ability to access this level of education for free. I don’t know if I’m a weirdo, but I also find it fun!
You are weird, but it's best kind of weird! Don't change!
So fun! I don’t think it’s weird at all!
@@MrsRildaReads haha! Agreed🙌🏻
The line, "you must be religious" haha loves this classroom topic. Keep it up!
Tim, this course is just awesome.
I love the sincerity and clarity put into it.
Thank you for sharing this with us! I can't wait to see the next video.
The Raqia or separation between the ocean above and below could be a description of the earths atmosphere. The earths atmosphere keeps us safe and enclosed. Outer Space would be the place above the Raqia. According the Wikipedia, the water in Outer Space is 25-50 times the volume of earths water. It all ties together perfectly.
Sir u explained it so simple when others us alot of big words to prove there is a firmament between the waters . thanks alot for ur explanation 👍
This is awesome! Intellect and acknowledgement of TMH. Blessings y'all.
This was a very interesting conversation! I hope you put out the rest of the conversation soon!
My nephew and I are going through this class... it's fantastic and worth every minute. Intro to the Tanakh and Adam>Noah are also worldclass.
Loving this study, this is what I call a bible study(unlike most religious orgs).
How can I be in this class? 😅 I love this kind of insight, diving into the hebrew significance.
Job 37:18 & 38:30
Proverbs 8:27-28
Genesis 1:6-8 & 14-19
Psalm 148:4
Amos 9:6
Psalm 19:1-6
Ezekiel 1:26
Isaiah 66:1
Psalm 19:1
& Mathew 24:4
Exodus 24:10
1 chron 20:5
Gen 37:9
This is BRILLIANT work! God is so good!
As for the discussion on The Flood (14:00), water for Noah's flood probably came from both above and BELOW.
Supposedly, there are vast amounts of water underneath our feet... even underneath the oceans.
Genesis 7:11 says that on the day the flood began, there was a “breaking up” of the fountains of the great deep which 'burst open'.
Yeah there's three HUGE underground oceans (more water than all the oceans combined)... All the water from the food had to go somewhere... The deepest part buts up against the core... And my theory is that, that's where the leviathan lives since it has indestructible skin... But that's just me...
Well that is what the scientists say so. Water underneath. lots of it.
yes, the waters that caused the flood came from above from the windows of heaven and also from below the fountains of the deep. Then God closed the windows and the fountains.
Love BibleProject Classroom!
so good to hear you delving into this. I'm convinced that what nasa, hollywood and textbooks have been instilling in our minds about our Earth for several decades isn't fully correct, and many great minds outside of the mainstream have been showing this as well fortunately. We can see the wonders of God's creation when we let that programming go and explore where we are. You took important steps in that direction.
I think you're making the mistake Tim says that people often make. You're trying to use a cookbook to teach you how to grow food. PHYSICally, the Earth is round, but METAPHYSICally, the earth is three-tiered and flat with a dome. Just because ancient people thought the earth was flat doesn't mean that the earth is actually, physically flat.
@@amosmgz hmm. When looking into other channels that discuss this deeply from a biblical and scientific perspective, we get such a broader view. The Christian channel Celebrate Truth and Parable of the vineyard are very good. And Eric Dubay as well. There are many mind-blowing layers involved in the global model deception.
Please make more of these classroom videos.
Thank you! This is to much for me. My brain is about to explode. ♥️
THANK YOU, really helpful & insightful
The raqiyq sounds like it's the atmosphere to me.
Awesome clip. Keep up the good work.
How do you hammer atmosphere?
@King_of_Hogwartz2 , the verse you have quoted, Job 37:18, is a beautiful support for Tim Mackie's point. The author of Job clearly thought of the sky as a firmament; something metal-like that is beaten to be flat like metal. Not the idea we have of an atmosphere with an ionosphere and space above. Although the word in Job 37:18 may be using a different Hebrew word. Still, thank you for pointing it out as support for Tim's point.
@@MrMe2col Metaphorically?
@King_of_Hogwartz2 the Hebrew is comparing the strength (toughness)of the sky to a cast mirror (looking glass) not its hardness/texture or substance.
There's no accompanying claim that the sky is physically Metal or has an actual hard surface.
It's explicitly a simile talking about how strong the heavens are... which they undoubtedly are in their own way, but especially phenomenalogically in their role as a divinely established barrier between what's above from what's below. But no one is saying enoch or some other ascended figure touched it and reported it's "hard".
Hardness is an inferior translation in context.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 but the word doesn't mean hard. Saying that the cast laver was hard therfore the sky is as well doesn't follow. The Word like is used. That means simile is employed, and "like" things are "like" in specific ways established by context. In this case: as strong as a cast mirror... strength is what's being compared, not whether it's as reflective as the mirror, or metal... if it's bronze, are they saying it must be polished or it tarnishes? No. It's a very truth being conveyed in a poetic way.
what a special study thanks for preparing, filming and sharing
I’m Afriyie Joseph from Ghana and I enjoy the BibleProject videos.
Can we have more classroom videos?
Okay this is once again a brilliant classroom discussion but after 19:05 I could only think about how someone seriously needs to make a cosmetic brand called _cosmic_ or _cosmos_
This is amazing - Shemayim I learned in this video means heaven - I remember from previous study that MAYM (OR MAYIM) means WATER!!!! There has to be a connection!!!
The 18-minute mark is important, where Tim says these are theological claims on cosmology (hence not scientific/litteralistic)
Classroom is the beeeeest!
Just a Note: the famous Moon Rise photo was taken by Apollo 8 in Dec 1968, but the first Moon landing was July 1969.
The moonlanding was fake. Do the research. Nasa lies!!
And the earth is flat. This man is ignorant, on this fact, as was I for a season.
Alot of people believe no one has gone to the moon
The moon is a light. Not a rock you can land on.
@@c3ncor3dplaylists74 just no.
Thanks God for your blessings
2Cor.13.14
So rich. Thank you!
The waters , types of rainfall, Conventional and Relief , risings from the waters and rise from the mountains
I didn't know what cosmology meant, either! That was such a good question and breakdown!
This is so interesting.
Moon landing was July, 1969. Sorry, I have a need to correct others. But, I love you and financially support you!
Thank you
I’m confused about the rain part of this class. Everything else is great and amazing but Tim was speaking as if the water cycle didn’t exist and that cloud are just poured into by water above the clouds but the water above the clouds are are free from droplets of condensed moisture.
The ancient people had a different understanding of how things worked. Science books today offer a different explanation of how things work.
🤯🤯🤯Excellent discussion 🙏🏼thank you
YESSSSSSS IM SO EXCITEDD
I am 73. When I was in school growing up we were taught in science classes that the clouds come from evaporating water from the ocean, lakes and rivers. How does that fit in with all this?
The earth is flat with a firmament above separating the waters above from the water below. The clouds we see are from evaporating water from within the dome and is also described in Job 36:27-28 as the hydrologic cycle.
Heaven is a representation of the higher mind, which is connected to the heart. Move the letter h in the word heart behind the t and you get earth. Earth is 1 representation of the heart.
may we learn more about your word Lord and apply its wisdom!
That's awesome guys
I have suggestion regarding your videos please , it would be great if the all videos contain subtitle 🙏🙏🙏
When discussing origins, realize the difference between the theories Uniformitarianistism versus Catastrophism.
The global flood described in Genesis is a global event.
this is the type of bible study fellowship that im looking for 😢
Here's something you probably never considered: That which was done on the second day was not described by God as good, as was declared on the other days of creation. A necessary separation took place, but not "good." I think it has to do with the "living waters" that Jesus offers the woman at the well.
or could it be as hinted at in the video that it was a precursor to the flood? Interesting observation nonetheless
What do you mean when you say you think it has to do with the living waters Jesus offered at the well?
I really like your work
Does not our physics say that matter, including water, has three states of solid, liquid and gas? Thus a cloud is water in its gaseous state. So water is in the cloud. It can cool and condense from a gas back into a liquid. A liquid we call drops of rain.
But he seems to think rain actually comes down from a clear sky. These are people who have no understanding of physics - or just plain deny physics.
@@OGKenG Thanks for your comment. The issue becomes is the Bible correct when it goes against modern physics. We can put our faith in the book or in our science. Eiither choice requires faith, does it not? My faith is in the book.
@@leostokes
So, when people take actual photos of the globe earth with no solid dome over the top of a flat surface, you're going to say that the Bible is correct? I think you are misinterpreting what scripture says.
Actual physical evidence of the earth being a globe is better than the misinterpretation of scripture written by people who never left their Mediterranean home.
@@OGKenG Perhaps the water is behind the people with the camera. Or maybe the water is in the form of thin clouds that are not seen by the camera. Perhaps the "dome" is not solid but merely the will of God. I do not know. But it takes faith in science to refute the Bible. My faith is the Bible. And I am a scientist. A mathematician. I believe the sum of two odd numbers is always even. That is not in the Bible.
@@leostokes
So, when people say there is a solid dome over the earth that no one can escape and mankind sends rockets to the moon, thereby destroying any claim that there is a solid "firmament," which is right?
What I'm saying is that the INTERPRETATION that we are inside God's snow globe is a wrong interpretation. Three thousand years ago, no one could understand that the sky wasn't a solid dome overhead and that stars are giant balls of gas in space or that planets were large rocky or gaseous objects orbiting our own star. Heck, they didn't even have telescopes. Science expands our knowledge and we learn more. Those Christians who believe that everyone is lying to them (NASA, schools, the government, pilots, sailors, etc) just to hide God from us are living a complete fantasy and delusion.
THANK JESUS that lady said she didn’t understand cause I was lost lololol.. makes so much more sense now 😂
It can be conceived as due. Also looking at is as Universal Creation. Matter formed from waves. The concept of waves materialized from the understanding of water and it’s motion.
I want to watch the whole class!
Me too! How do we do that? I have the app...
Me TOO!!!
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
- Matthew 7:21-23
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire,
so it will be at the end of the age.
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes s1n
and all who do evil.
They will throw them into the blazing furnace,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
- Matthew 13:40-42
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion?
The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
@@lark8356 I just use UA-cam and TG.
I'm Brazilian from Minas Gerais.
@@godskingdomservant3191 I understand. Thank you for your response.
Brilliant.
Especially when viewing the waters and land in light of the biblical poetry and metaphor series, this makes so much sense. So no flat earth. The firmament was God dividing the forces of chaos (waters) and creating a pocket of order (land) for life to thrive. The Emperor approves.
the earth is flat like the Bible describes.
Do our spacecraft fly through the upper waters? Very confused. Thanks for helping.
I am not able to read the replies to your comment. . . I do not understand why?
@@sashaslifer7972 Im not able to see them either. I would like to know a response to my question though.
If God stopped Nimrod from building the tower into the heavens then why would he allow rockets to go there? Also this passage is a difficulty. Jer 31:37 Thus says the LORD: “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.”
Does this mean if NASA finds the height of the heavens from day 2 that God will cast Israel off?
@@urlyadoptr Another excellent question. Maybe Tim will reply to these.
@@urlyadoptr why God need stop rocket?
I understand that there are powers beyond our understanding, but when you talk about raqia and what holds back the waters above... how can I reconcile the differences in these biblical concepts with the astronomical and scientific? I understand that it's really not that important, what's important is my belief that God is my creator and it doesn't matter that I can comprehend it.
Do you think there is any point in trying to reconcile the differences at all?
In other words, do we need to discredit what we are taught in school? Surely scientific knowledge and the biblical cosmology can co-exist right? I just need someone to say Yes I guess.
But in the end, whatever the answer may be to those questions, it doesn't change my view of God and my spiritual struggle to stay humble and content in God's love.
@jaejoo9910 what we are thaught in school is just meant for us to navigate the world, and find a job or a form sustenance. But if you want to reconcile the bible with the world we live in, don't think in scientific perspective but think in what your observable eye can see physically, not what you observe through scientific means such as through a microscope or through a telescope etc etc. Now the other thing you must understand is that God doesn't speak clearly, he never does speak clearly. So the whole bible that you are reading is God not speaking clearly. That is why now you need the help of the holy spirit to put it all together for you. Because for example Genesis 1 and creation God only gave us the information he wanted for the purpose he wanted. He did not give the whole deal = not speaking clearly. So you need the holy spirit to be able to understand what God is doing. Also if you want to understand him, initially at first, don't try to tie in the physical comoslogy to his word. Just try to understand his word separately and don't try to reason with it. Just try to understand what he is saying as he is saying it. Once u are able to do this, you will begin to understand what God means to say rather what you think God is saying.
God makes his Word loud and clear! We can try to interpret the Bible through our own feelings or parameters, but those are OURS, not God's!
We must take care not to go outside the Word and be willing to take His Word literally. Others are metaphors, but the Lord lays out very clearly what happened in the Bible.
Seven day creation, God born as a man, His death and resurrection, new heaven and new earth.
Certainly it takes study to understand the hard parts of the Bible. Creation and evolution as a comparison are the starting points by which we see the world, with a Biblical creation perspective guiding us as Christians. But that study must come from what the Bible says and what we can learn from it.
The Holy Spirit can and DOES speak to us, but our hearts can lie to us, too!
Jeremiah 17:9 NIV
[9] The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
But God's Word is infallible.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [17] so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
love the hebrew cosmology...much more than the modern one..
looks simple: we all see there is men's kingdom: earth and waters (under and above the earth) and heaven (where birds fly) below the firmament (rakia, second sky)...
above the firmament is God's kingdom: we cann't see (except people like Stephan, Paul,..): but looks like there are also: earth like (firmament), waters and sky (third sky)
hope we all will see that place, where Jesus prepared mansions for eatch of us
Psalm 104:13 from your abode you watered the mountains.
Ever thought of where the water from a waterfall come from? Yes it comes from the mountains but where in particular within the mountain and it doesn't seem to run out.
Think about it
Im in need of prayer and help shared what im going threw on video
It seems more time was spent discussing "raqia" than "eretz" as the heading suggests and I didn't hear a specific clear definition of "eretz"
That is, what did the Biblical authors mean by "eretz"?
Question: If the biblical authors use "ancient physics", which we today would consider scientifically inaccurate, why do we trust their metaphysical conclusions? As an example, if someone made the argument "Because God built a solid dome around us, therefore he is really powerful and cares for us", then I would respond with "Since the premise is false, the conclusion does not necessarily follow". I'm not arguing against the Bible here, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this topic.
Feel free to respond. Thanks!
Try also Dr John Walton (expert on ancient neareast texts)… books & UA-cam lectures - another interesting perspective to help us modern minded, scientific age people to grasp what these ancient texts were communicating.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 Thanks for your response! What I still ask myself is, "How can I know that the ancient hebrews' meta claims are true when their cosmology claims are not?"
@trapd00rspider Thank you for sharing your thoughts! The Case for Christ is a great book, and I am a frequent viewer of InspiringPhilosophy as well, although I have noticed that his views differ from BibleProject on some points.
Your last part about Jesus resonates with what I've been thinking lately. If he wasn't raised from the dead, there would be no reason for me to take the metaphysics of the Hebrew scriptures seriously. They would still be interesting to read but no more than that.
However, I am still wondering about passages that make arguments based on, for instance, the historicity of Adam and Eve, something that I would consider part of the "physical" statements of Genesis rather than the "metaphysical". Such as Mat 19:4-6 or 1 Tim 2:11-15. So I would say that the new testament authors "founded their understanding of God on their cosmology" as you put it. But maybe I am stretching the meaning of the term cosmology here.
Hey David, the question you raise is a very important one. As the Bible says a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
So I think the essence of your question is spot on. Truth be told I am a Bible, believing evangelical Christian, so parse what I say, but I believe the Bible itself can withstand the rigors of scientific and philosophic inquiry.
Continued… So one possible solution is to argue that the cosmology present in Genesis chapter 1 reflects a much deeper understanding rather than an ancient historical one. That is to say there was a conjoining of the metaphysical, and the ontological in ways that are not present today.
That is to say, if we except the notion that metaphysical entities exist than the epistemological justification rest upon whether we are consistent with the use of the term or terms.
I argue that the Bible is consistent. Specifically, it may be argued that the word firmament Raquia also is a reference to the “sea of glass” in Revelation.
Why is this important? It is important because the firmament will represent a division between the metaphysical and the purely physical. But by definition, the metaphysical is outside the realms of empirical observation. However, we can see that the Bible is consistent in the use of the term Rakiyah.
And this is not merely a question of “Faith“ has some have defined it
So, it’s like a controlled release of the waters above so that what is below is not destroyed?
This year got any new classroom sessions ?
Feedback your video. Please do not put pictures or text verse in the left bottom corner. Deaf community read the caption closed over the pic or text verse that CAN'T see it. Please put top left corner next time.
A temporary workaround is to click and drag the closed captions and/or change the color by clicking on the video settings (gear icon) and adjusting as needed. Of course this only works if you're on desktop and not on the mobile app.
How much do I pay to take these courses online? 🙏🏻
I don’t think that everyone is understanding what’s happening here. 😅 Maybe you’re not familiar with Tim’s style. I see some comments getting excited about revering this creation account as literal. Tim (and Bible project in general) has a great respect for the biblical author’s intent and understanding. He’s bringing to light their ancient understanding of the universe and the physical world, but also not claiming Genesis 1 to be a literal account of creation. In fact, he’s saying we too often misread that into the text - it’s not claiming to be a science book. I love how he summed it up - using their understanding at the time, they’re making theological claims about the nature of God. This doesn’t necessarily mean that truly the world was created in 7 days. Our takeaway should be that God created a good ordered world for his image-bearing humans to flourish in and rule over. You can certainly dispute that too, but that’s Gen 1-2’s basic claim, so that would be the focus of what to dispute.
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion?
The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
I bristle whenever somebody uses the phrase "biblical's author's intent and understanding" because it is a major red flag that whatever somebody is trying to teach is about to contradict the Bible. That phrase gives the impression that the words in the Bible came from men's opinions and not God, and thus leaves everything they wrote up to ppl's personal interpretations.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 oh interesting. I get it. I used to too. Scripture is God breathed and inspired but he clearly used many many humans to bring it into being. And He’s so powerful and detailed, that he also used their intentions as they designed the scrolls to communicate His ultimate story of redemption. For example Paul had specific intent and understating when writing his letters. So did Jeremiah when his prophecies were written. God used all of it. Do you follow Bible Project at all? I saw the rest of the long multi session class that this video clip is from and it dives deeper into this concept. Give it a try! ☺️
So sad when "teachers/leaders" of GOD'S word speak against the validity or truth of it!!! Unfortunately it's the direction so many "Mainstream churches" are going these days "progressive Christianity " is like lukewarm water in the Father's mouth and as scripture says it will be spit out. Those that read the biblical creation model & account as it reads can't possibly read it as the anti GOD, millions of years, evolutionists spinning balls in infinite nothingness THEORY....
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 it's not either or, but both and.
Scripture is clearly God breathed, but its purpose is to communicate to mankind in a context he understands and when we read anachronistically and then pretend we're being objective we're missing the divine meaning in favor of trying to svore sectarian points... sticking to what the point the audience could understand, in context, gets us closer to what's truly timeless and infallible in scripture, and once we've condensed these core ideas we can then apply them in our context reliably.
You should always want to know what scripture meant to he authors and the audience. Divorcing it from such isn't how you prevent error, its the pregnant veering ground for every cult in history.
Yes people use that appeal to pull a reverse UNO card and make some BS progressive case afterward, they aren't wrong because it's wrong to search put original intent... They're wrong because they're using that added step as a means to play 3 card monte and hide their prejudice in the complexity of their analysis, which calling everyone else prejudiced.
But make no mistake, their stated excuse for doing this is valid, it's theor unstated ideological commitments that invalidate their hermeneutic.
Ah! I wish I was sitting in this very classroom!
If there is all this water up above the clouds, how come we can't see it? Also, the clouds water comes from evaporation.
How do I get to the full video?
Yikr
What?
I have a random question, was that Brother Tim in the " Back To Church" video several years ago?
I was planning on never reading the Bible again in my life. Maybe after this video I should change my mind.
If you do, (I hope you do) do it alongside Bible project resources like these videos or their podcast. It has completely elevated and deepened all at once my understanding of the Bible.
12:08 You are aware that NASA isnt a Scuba Organization, right?
Reasons to Believe has a really good explanation. Better, in my opinion…
Aaah. The Sea of Glass...
11:30
Those the passage implies the water above are the clouds? Or did the authors initially meant there is something like an ocean beyond the sky?
Are clouds in the comprehension of the authors part of the water above or part of the sky separating the water above and the water below?
Edit: I guess this is answered at 14:20 💁🏾♂️
And, he answered wrong. Evaporation causes water to form in the sky as clouds which then produces rain. Rain doesn't come from clear skies. That just violates physics.
@King_of_Hogwartz2
Care to show me this solid dome that holds water above?
And, if the water is above the dome and God is above the dome, doesn't that make your version of God under water? You worship Poseidon?
Bible project will be the next St. Jerome
So is it fair to say that the "raqia" is not actualy earths fermament, but rather a conceptual representation of the fabric of space? separating space, and the matter within it, from the waters above outside of space/universe? This "waters" sounds a lot like the "premordial soup" in physics.
Jhis bro I haven't thought of that. My undergraduate thesis last year was probing the QGP with a string theory/AdS/CFT model.
Cool, but I'd have to think more about it. Associating the "waters" as primordial soup seems to possibly pose problems with regards to the Heavens separating waters above and below. I would have no idea what that would mean, but it doesn't seem in favour of a QGP-view. Nevertheless, I think we should exercise caution trying to read our models into the Bible.
There are a lot of assumptions being made here... About the state of the "raqia" about water.. About heavens.. A lot of assumptions here...
Amazing!
I think this explains why expanse is a better translation than firmament, aspecially as firmament is itself such an idiosyncratic word, applied somewhat anachronistically when employed.
Expanse fits the ACTION of the spreading or hammering out without overly relying on speculations of WHAT it metaphysically IS. The Mesopotamian imagery might facilitate that, but scripture never relies on trying to flesh this out beyond the phenomenalogical, except when lapsing into the poetic, which isn't the same thing.
The firmament!!! Does this conclude the world we live in is not a globe? I love this kind of banter
Linguistically and culturally sound; historically a bit lacking. The Greeks worked out that the earth was more or less spherical well before the birth of Christ, and it was taken for granted by the time of Augustine, at least in scholarly circles. (Augustine refers to the globe in _The City of God,_ as I recall.) Now, they generally supposed the other hemisphere was all ocean (this is what the royal scholars argued against Columbus) and thus uninhabited. Dante assumes a spherical earth in his Comedy--he even knew that what we call gravity draws us toward the center of the earth (Inferno Canto 34).
It's a fairly safe bet that Luke (and probably therefore Paul) knew the world was round.
Indeed, a fact the flat earthers seem to ignore
Awesome
I assume the raqa is the cloud that holds all of hat watering.
なるほどね～😊
It good to take into account, the earth isn't a sphere. Scripture doesn't support the theory of a sphere Earth.
Also in Genesis 7:11 it mentions the windows of heaven were opened. Not the firmament collapsed.
I highly recommend reading the book of Enoch it goes into depth regarding the atmosphere.
Intelligent question 12:45
agreed. not sure if I’m reading into things - but don’t feel like she got validated for her intelligence the way others did at all …
As a physics teacher and a Christian, i think it is important to separate the two simply because one is dealing with the Earth as it is ordered, and the other is dealing with the Earth as a tool to achieve a goal.
Science merely describes how the world works, it does not tell anyone what to do with it. Society may decide to use nuclear physics to make a bomb, or to make large amounts of energy, or to generate nuclear medicine. That is not up to science to decide.
Likewise. God created the world as a tool that he can use in whatever way he desires, even to the point of letting us decide what to do with it. The challenge God puts to us is, do we make the bomb, or do we make the medicine?
Will you use creation to do God's work?
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion?
The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.