What the Biblical Authors Meant by the Word "Earth"
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2023
- This session is from the BibleProject Classroom class Heaven and Earth, taught by Dr. Tim Mackie. The entire class is available for free on the BibleProject app at classroom-beta.bibleproject.co....
What did the biblical authors intend to communicate when they used the word "earth?" Genesis 1 is an ancient cosmology that uses specific words and images to describe the ordered world as understood by ancient people. When we study this chapter, we can discover how the writers of the Bible understood the structure of the world and its origins
In Hebrew, the word for "earth" ('erets) typically means land rather than a globe or sphere floating in space. The raqia' is the solid dome above the land that holds back the waters above, and the creation of the raqia' creates a place where life can flourish. Dive into Genesis 1 and explore how these Hebrew words can help us see the important theological claim being made through this cosmology picture.
You guys put so much into this. It's crazy you went from 2 people working and editing 6 years ago to a whole team of 20 maybe more, podcasts and is official. Congratulations
Iskcon Temple. Citti Media. Sangam Talk. Alternative Media. Rang de Basanti Yt
Honestly, I’ve held small groups with their graphic bible series. This is so amazing to see, and may this ministry reach the ears and eyes of people unto the ends of the earth. Amen.
Excellent content as usual, thank you!
00:00 Introduction
00:55 Modern view of "Earth"
02:58 Biblical authors' view of _'erets_ (Earth)
05:12 _Raqia'_ (most often translated as vault/expanse/firmament/space)
08:00 Hebrew words and their root letters
08:57 _Raqa'_ as a verb (instead of the noun _raqia'_ )
10:30 _Raqia'_ as a solid dome
12:07 Waters as an obstacle (the _raqia'_ serves as a protective shield)
14:30 Didn't the _raqia'_ fall during the flood? (and has not been replaced since)
16:27 Where does the water in clouds come from? (above or below the _raqia'_ )
18:13 The important theological claim
18:38 What does cosmology mean?
20:24 Metaphysics: If cosmology is a kind of knowledge, what is the meaning?
How much should this information cost? It's free. This is God's grace for those who seek Him. I'm so grateful for these videos. God bless Pastor Tim.
Wow, Tim is an incredible scholar. I have never heard anyone explain anything with such depth, breadth, and clarity. I wish I could be in the classroom but I am SOO grateful this is being taught and given for free. This is more valuable than gold. Priceless teachings.
wow, honestly just wow! The separation of physics and metaphysics really just blew me away, honestly such a fresh perspective. "You are looking at a cookbook for instructions on how to grow food" is such a nail on the head analogy. Wonderful video as always, keep up the great work 🤍
I love how you carefully explain that element of creation that so elegantly describes this special world that God made for us. Yes, we truly are at the center of His creation. Amen
I want these to be hours long! So good!
I would love to be in this classroom engaging in these conversations with Tim. So thought provoking and interesting!
Citti Media. Sangam Talk. Alternative Media.
Tim is very big at what he does in he’s own personal way.
The line, "you must be religious" haha loves this classroom topic. Keep it up!
Psa 150:1 Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.'
The rainbow of Genesis 9 appears to have the same shape as the firmament, above which the waters of the flood originated - hence the reminder it is solid and the waters will not destroy all flesh again. It's not gone.
I have waited so long for a rightly divided, unapologetic Christian explanation of day 1 and 2 in the Genesis account. Thank you gentleman. I truly am rejoicing. God truth is the reality that has been buried for too long.
Thank you SO much! I love this kind of Bible study (Far more than 'what does it mean to YOU?' type questions). I don't have the skill, time, or focus to truly learn Hebrew, Koine/Greek, Aramaic, etc. to delve into the original language of the bible, but I know that a LOT of disagreement and misunderstanding stems from ignorance of the depths and finer shades of meaning of what the text actually says. I rely on others who DO have that linguistic knowledge and perspective to clarify scripture for me. Thanks once again!
We use classroom for our Bible study group and we are doing Heaven and Earth right now. Classroom has totally changed my life! So grateful for the ability to access this level of education for free. I don’t know if I’m a weirdo, but I also find it fun!
You are weird, but it's best kind of weird! Don't change!
So fun! I don’t think it’s weird at all!
@@MrsRildaReads haha! Agreed🙌🏻
I am grateful for the questions that were asked because I too was a bit confused (still kind of am). That whole separation of the waters has long confused me. It's a bit clearer now, but God bless the students who were brave enough to express their need for clarification. Btw would have loved to hear the answer to the first lady's question about the water being held in reserve for a possible time of divine punishment. Thanks to the whole class. Tim's biblical enthusiasm is infectious!
There is mentioned in Rev. 4:6 and 15:2 a "Sea of Glass." This is what Tim was referring to. The sea of glass we see in Rev. is the floor of heaven. So when God separated the waters above from the waters below, the sea of glass became the waters above and the waters of the earth became what was below. In between those are the heavens. The skies directly above the earth and the universe "space." This was what the female was referring to when she used the term "firmament."
Just a Note: the famous Moon Rise photo was taken by Apollo 8 in Dec 1968, but the first Moon landing was July 1969.
The moonlanding was fake. Do the research. Nasa lies!!
And the earth is flat. This man is ignorant, on this fact, as was I for a season.
Alot of people believe no one has gone to the moon
The moon is a light. Not a rock you can land on.
@@c3ncor3dplaylists74 just no.
Loving this study, this is what I call a bible study(unlike most religious orgs).
How can I be in this class? 😅 I love this kind of insight, diving into the hebrew significance.
Tim, this course is just awesome.
I love the sincerity and clarity put into it.
Thank you for sharing this with us! I can't wait to see the next video.
Love BibleProject Classroom!
Will forever love and appreciate you guys for being so formative to my understanding of God and His word. God bless you to the end of the eretz and beyond the heights of the raqia! ❤️
My nephew and I are going through this class... it's fantastic and worth every minute. Intro to the Tanakh and Adam>Noah are also worldclass.
This was a very interesting conversation! I hope you put out the rest of the conversation soon!
what a special study thanks for preparing, filming and sharing
The Raqia or separation between the ocean above and below could be a description of the earths atmosphere. The earths atmosphere keeps us safe and enclosed. Outer Space would be the place above the Raqia. According the Wikipedia, the water in Outer Space is 25-50 times the volume of earths water. It all ties together perfectly.
Okay this is once again a brilliant classroom discussion but after 19:05 I could only think about how someone seriously needs to make a cosmetic brand called _cosmic_ or _cosmos_
As for the discussion on The Flood (14:00), water for Noah's flood probably came from both above and BELOW.
Supposedly, there are vast amounts of water underneath our feet... even underneath the oceans.
Genesis 7:11 says that on the day the flood began, there was a “breaking up” of the fountains of the great deep which 'burst open'.
Yeah there's three HUGE underground oceans (more water than all the oceans combined)... All the water from the food had to go somewhere... The deepest part buts up against the core... And my theory is that, that's where the leviathan lives since it has indestructible skin... But that's just me...
Well that is what the scientists say so. Water underneath. lots of it.
This is awesome! Intellect and acknowledgement of TMH. Blessings y'all.
Thank you! This is to much for me. My brain is about to explode. ♥️
THANK YOU, really helpful & insightful
Sir u explained it so simple when others us alot of big words to prove there is a firmament between the waters . thanks alot for ur explanation 👍
Please make more of these classroom videos.
Classroom is the beeeeest!
🤯🤯🤯Excellent discussion 🙏🏼thank you
This is BRILLIANT work! God is so good!
so good to hear you delving into this. I'm convinced that what nasa, hollywood and textbooks have been instilling in our minds about our Earth for several decades isn't fully correct, and many great minds outside of the mainstream have been showing this as well fortunately. We can see the wonders of God's creation when we let that programming go and explore where we are. You took important steps in that direction.
I think you're making the mistake Tim says that people often make. You're trying to use a cookbook to teach you how to grow food. PHYSICally, the Earth is round, but METAPHYSICally, the earth is three-tiered and flat with a dome. Just because ancient people thought the earth was flat doesn't mean that the earth is actually, physically flat.
@@amosmgz hmm. When looking into other channels that discuss this deeply from a biblical and scientific perspective, we get such a broader view. The Christian channel Celebrate Truth and Parable of the vineyard are very good. And Eric Dubay as well. There are many mind-blowing layers involved in the global model deception.
I didn't know what cosmology meant, either! That was such a good question and breakdown!
Job 37:18 & 38:30
Proverbs 8:27-28
Genesis 1:6-8 & 14-19
Psalm 148:4
Amos 9:6
Psalm 19:1-6
Ezekiel 1:26
Isaiah 66:1
Psalm 19:1
& Mathew 24:4
Exodus 24:10
1 chron 20:5
Gen 37:9
So rich. Thank you!
Please pray for me and my children.Prayer are ALL I NEED! I’m a single mother and I’m struggling to provide for my sons both of them are autistic and I’m overwhelmed! I lost my job because I declined the vaccine. I declined due to my heat condition and I suffer from lupus. I am waitressing now but not making nearly enough. I can’t go back to the hospital because mandates are still in place. Jesus help me to overcome my fears. Because as I struggle I am fearful. struggling to provide for me and my children is scary Struggling to buy groceries. Struggling to pay rent. BUT I trust you Lord. Jesus hear my prayers. Jesus has never left my side. Praise Jesus. 0:05
Call on Jehovah Jireh
I am 73. When I was in school growing up we were taught in science classes that the clouds come from evaporating water from the ocean, lakes and rivers. How does that fit in with all this?
The 18-minute mark is important, where Tim says these are theological claims on cosmology (hence not scientific/litteralistic)
Moon landing was July, 1969. Sorry, I have a need to correct others. But, I love you and financially support you!
This is so interesting.
The raqiyq sounds like it's the atmosphere to me.
Awesome clip. Keep up the good work.
How do you hammer atmosphere?
@King_of_Hogwartz2 You do know that Hogwartz is witchcraft... right? Think about that as you look up into Heaven and understand the reality in which we are living and how the enemies of God have blinded us.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 , the verse you have quoted, Job 37:18, is a beautiful support for Tim Mackie's point. The author of Job clearly thought of the sky as a firmament; something metal-like that is beaten to be flat like metal. Not the idea we have of an atmosphere with an ionosphere and space above. Although the word in Job 37:18 may be using a different Hebrew word. Still, thank you for pointing it out as support for Tim's point.
@@MrMe2col Metaphorically?
@King_of_Hogwartz2 the Hebrew is comparing the strength (toughness)of the sky to a cast mirror (looking glass) not its hardness/texture or substance.
There's no accompanying claim that the sky is physically Metal or has an actual hard surface.
It's explicitly a simile talking about how strong the heavens are... which they undoubtedly are in their own way, but especially phenomenalogically in their role as a divinely established barrier between what's above from what's below. But no one is saying enoch or some other ascended figure touched it and reported it's "hard".
Hardness is an inferior translation in context.
YESSSSSSS IM SO EXCITEDD
The firmament!!! Does this conclude the world we live in is not a globe? I love this kind of banter
I’m Afriyie Joseph from Ghana and I enjoy the BibleProject videos.
Can we have more classroom videos?
Thanks God for your blessings
2Cor.13.14
That's awesome guys
This is amazing - Shemayim I learned in this video means heaven - I remember from previous study that MAYM (OR MAYIM) means WATER!!!! There has to be a connection!!!
I really like your work
Thank you
Brilliant.
this is the type of bible study fellowship that im looking for 😢
Amazing!
It can be conceived as due. Also looking at is as Universal Creation. Matter formed from waves. The concept of waves materialized from the understanding of water and it’s motion.
The waters , types of rainfall, Conventional and Relief , risings from the waters and rise from the mountains
Ah! I wish I was sitting in this very classroom!
THANK JESUS that lady said she didn’t understand cause I was lost lololol.. makes so much more sense now 😂
You know we never went to the moon!
I’m confused about the rain part of this class. Everything else is great and amazing but Tim was speaking as if the water cycle didn’t exist and that cloud are just poured into by water above the clouds but the water above the clouds are are free from droplets of condensed moisture.
The ancient people had a different understanding of how things worked. Science books today offer a different explanation of how things work.
So, it’s like a controlled release of the waters above so that what is below is not destroyed?
I have a random question, was that Brother Tim in the " Back To Church" video several years ago?
may we learn more about your word Lord and apply its wisdom!
This year got any new classroom sessions ?
I was planning on never reading the Bible again in my life. Maybe after this video I should change my mind.
If you do, (I hope you do) do it alongside Bible project resources like these videos or their podcast. It has completely elevated and deepened all at once my understanding of the Bible.
Im in need of prayer and help shared what im going threw on video
Aaah. The Sea of Glass...
I have suggestion regarding your videos please , it would be great if the all videos contain subtitle 🙏🙏🙏
Awesome
I want to watch the whole class!
Me too! How do we do that? I have the app...
Me TOO!!!
When discussing origins, realize the difference between the theories Uniformitarianistism versus Catastrophism.
The global flood described in Genesis is a global event.
How much do I pay to take these courses online? 🙏🏻
love the hebrew cosmology...much more than the modern one..
looks simple: we all see there is men's kingdom: earth and waters (under and above the earth) and heaven (where birds fly) below the firmament (rakia, second sky)...
above the firmament is God's kingdom: we cann't see (except people like Stephan, Paul,..): but looks like there are also: earth like (firmament), waters and sky (third sky)
hope we all will see that place, where Jesus prepared mansions for eatch of us
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
- Matthew 7:21-23
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire,
so it will be at the end of the age.
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes s1n
and all who do evil.
They will throw them into the blazing furnace,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
- Matthew 13:40-42
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion?
The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
@@lark8356 I just use UA-cam and TG.
I'm Brazilian from Minas Gerais.
@@godskingdomservant3191 I understand. Thank you for your response.
Here's something you probably never considered: That which was done on the second day was not described by God as good, as was declared on the other days of creation. A necessary separation took place, but not "good." I think it has to do with the "living waters" that Jesus offers the woman at the well.
or could it be as hinted at in the video that it was a precursor to the flood? Interesting observation nonetheless
What do you mean when you say you think it has to do with the living waters Jesus offered at the well?
Especially when viewing the waters and land in light of the biblical poetry and metaphor series, this makes so much sense. So no flat earth. The firmament was God dividing the forces of chaos (waters) and creating a pocket of order (land) for life to thrive. The Emperor approves.
なるほどね～😊
It seems more time was spent discussing "raqia" than "eretz" as the heading suggests and I didn't hear a specific clear definition of "eretz"
That is, what did the Biblical authors mean by "eretz"?
If there is all this water up above the clouds, how come we can't see it? Also, the clouds water comes from evaporation.
11:30
Those the passage implies the water above are the clouds? Or did the authors initially meant there is something like an ocean beyond the sky?
Are clouds in the comprehension of the authors part of the water above or part of the sky separating the water above and the water below?
Edit: I guess this is answered at 14:20 💁🏾♂️
And, he answered wrong. Evaporation causes water to form in the sky as clouds which then produces rain. Rain doesn't come from clear skies. That just violates physics.
@King_of_Hogwartz2
Care to show me this solid dome that holds water above?
And, if the water is above the dome and God is above the dome, doesn't that make your version of God under water? You worship Poseidon?
I am not convinced the word water should be taken literally.
3 letters most common to root system but not exclusive
Firmament!
Not flat
Feedback your video. Please do not put pictures or text verse in the left bottom corner. Deaf community read the caption closed over the pic or text verse that CAN'T see it. Please put top left corner next time.
A temporary workaround is to click and drag the closed captions and/or change the color by clicking on the video settings (gear icon) and adjusting as needed. Of course this only works if you're on desktop and not on the mobile app.
So is it fair to say that the "raqia" is not actualy earths fermament, but rather a conceptual representation of the fabric of space? separating space, and the matter within it, from the waters above outside of space/universe? This "waters" sounds a lot like the "premordial soup" in physics.
Psalm 104:13 from your abode you watered the mountains.
Ever thought of where the water from a waterfall come from? Yes it comes from the mountains but where in particular within the mountain and it doesn't seem to run out.
Think about it
I don’t think that everyone is understanding what’s happening here. 😅 Maybe you’re not familiar with Tim’s style. I see some comments getting excited about revering this creation account as literal. Tim (and Bible project in general) has a great respect for the biblical author’s intent and understanding. He’s bringing to light their ancient understanding of the universe and the physical world, but also not claiming Genesis 1 to be a literal account of creation. In fact, he’s saying we too often misread that into the text - it’s not claiming to be a science book. I love how he summed it up - using their understanding at the time, they’re making theological claims about the nature of God. This doesn’t necessarily mean that truly the world was created in 7 days. Our takeaway should be that God created a good ordered world for his image-bearing humans to flourish in and rule over. You can certainly dispute that too, but that’s Gen 1-2’s basic claim, so that would be the focus of what to dispute.
Grace and Peace to you. Would you like to be included in our Theology Group chat on a different platform for further discussion?
The group an assortment of people with various theological beliefs and backgrounds. What we all have in common is a desire to discuss the bible, Religion and Christianity. It's a Good Opportunity to witness to non-believers and fellowship with believers.
I bristle whenever somebody uses the phrase "biblical's author's intent and understanding" because it is a major red flag that whatever somebody is trying to teach is about to contradict the Bible. That phrase gives the impression that the words in the Bible came from men's opinions and not God, and thus leaves everything they wrote up to ppl's personal interpretations.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 There is a difference between the old covenant (testament) and the new. Yes. 100% God, 0% mans opinion. Get serious about salvation. The season has come upon us all. Do you know?
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 oh interesting. I get it. I used to too. Scripture is God breathed and inspired but he clearly used many many humans to bring it into being. And He’s so powerful and detailed, that he also used their intentions as they designed the scrolls to communicate His ultimate story of redemption. For example Paul had specific intent and understating when writing his letters. So did Jeremiah when his prophecies were written. God used all of it. Do you follow Bible Project at all? I saw the rest of the long multi session class that this video clip is from and it dives deeper into this concept. Give it a try! ☺️
So sad when "teachers/leaders" of GOD'S word speak against the validity or truth of it!!! Unfortunately it's the direction so many "Mainstream churches" are going these days "progressive Christianity " is like lukewarm water in the Father's mouth and as scripture says it will be spit out. Those that read the biblical creation model & account as it reads can't possibly read it as the anti GOD, millions of years, evolutionists spinning balls in infinite nothingness THEORY....
How do I get to the full video?
Yikr
What?
Does not our physics say that matter, including water, has three states of solid, liquid and gas? Thus a cloud is water in its gaseous state. So water is in the cloud. It can cool and condense from a gas back into a liquid. A liquid we call drops of rain.
But he seems to think rain actually comes down from a clear sky. These are people who have no understanding of physics - or just plain deny physics.
@@OGKenG Thanks for your comment. The issue becomes is the Bible correct when it goes against modern physics. We can put our faith in the book or in our science. Eiither choice requires faith, does it not? My faith is in the book.
@@leostokes
So, when people take actual photos of the globe earth with no solid dome over the top of a flat surface, you're going to say that the Bible is correct? I think you are misinterpreting what scripture says.
Actual physical evidence of the earth being a globe is better than the misinterpretation of scripture written by people who never left their Mediterranean home.
@@OGKenG Perhaps the water is behind the people with the camera. Or maybe the water is in the form of thin clouds that are not seen by the camera. Perhaps the "dome" is not solid but merely the will of God. I do not know. But it takes faith in science to refute the Bible. My faith is the Bible. And I am a scientist. A mathematician. I believe the sum of two odd numbers is always even. That is not in the Bible.
@@leostokes
So, when people say there is a solid dome over the earth that no one can escape and mankind sends rockets to the moon, thereby destroying any claim that there is a solid "firmament," which is right?
What I'm saying is that the INTERPRETATION that we are inside God's snow globe is a wrong interpretation. Three thousand years ago, no one could understand that the sky wasn't a solid dome overhead and that stars are giant balls of gas in space or that planets were large rocky or gaseous objects orbiting our own star. Heck, they didn't even have telescopes. Science expands our knowledge and we learn more. Those Christians who believe that everyone is lying to them (NASA, schools, the government, pilots, sailors, etc) just to hide God from us are living a complete fantasy and delusion.
I assume the raqa is the cloud that holds all of hat watering.
12:08 You are aware that NASA isnt a Scuba Organization, right?
Do our spacecraft fly through the upper waters? Very confused. Thanks for helping.
No. Those waters are ABOVE the firmament. "Outer space" is fake as you know it. It is literally a huge lie designed to hide God and our true reality. This is very serious. Heaven is above us, above the firmament. Be serious about salvation... the season has come upon us all and this subject is part of the end time story.
I am not able to read the replies to your comment. . . I do not understand why?
@@sashaslifer7972 Im not able to see them either. I would like to know a response to my question though.
If God stopped Nimrod from building the tower into the heavens then why would he allow rockets to go there? Also this passage is a difficulty. Jer 31:37 Thus says the LORD: “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.”
Does this mean if NASA finds the height of the heavens from day 2 that God will cast Israel off?
@@urlyadoptr Another excellent question. Maybe Tim will reply to these.
I understand that there are powers beyond our understanding, but when you talk about raqia and what holds back the waters above... how can I reconcile the differences in these biblical concepts with the astronomical and scientific? I understand that it's really not that important, what's important is my belief that God is my creator and it doesn't matter that I can comprehend it.
Do you think there is any point in trying to reconcile the differences at all?
In other words, do we need to discredit what we are taught in school? Surely scientific knowledge and the biblical cosmology can co-exist right? I just need someone to say Yes I guess.
But in the end, whatever the answer may be to those questions, it doesn't change my view of God and my spiritual struggle to stay humble and content in God's love.
@jaejoo9910 what we are thaught in school is just meant for us to navigate the world, and find a job or a form sustenance. But if you want to reconcile the bible with the world we live in, don't think in scientific perspective but think in what your observable eye can see physically, not what you observe through scientific means such as through a microscope or through a telescope etc etc. Now the other thing you must understand is that God doesn't speak clearly, he never does speak clearly. So the whole bible that you are reading is God not speaking clearly. That is why now you need the help of the holy spirit to put it all together for you. Because for example Genesis 1 and creation God only gave us the information he wanted for the purpose he wanted. He did not give the whole deal = not speaking clearly. So you need the holy spirit to be able to understand what God is doing. Also if you want to understand him, initially at first, don't try to tie in the physical comoslogy to his word. Just try to understand his word separately and don't try to reason with it. Just try to understand what he is saying as he is saying it. Once u are able to do this, you will begin to understand what God means to say rather what you think God is saying.
God makes his Word loud and clear! We can try to interpret the Bible through our own feelings or parameters, but those are OURS, not God's!
We must take care not to go outside the Word and be willing to take His Word literally. Others are metaphors, but the Lord lays out very clearly what happened in the Bible.
Seven day creation, God born as a man, His death and resurrection, new heaven and new earth.
Certainly it takes study to understand the hard parts of the Bible. Creation and evolution as a comparison are the starting points by which we see the world, with a Biblical creation perspective guiding us as Christians. But that study must come from what the Bible says and what we can learn from it.
The Holy Spirit can and DOES speak to us, but our hearts can lie to us, too!
Jeremiah 17:9 NIV
[9] The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
But God's Word is infallible.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [17] so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
So how are the astronauts and spaceships breaking through the firmament to go the moon, Saturn and beyond?
They're not... "Outer space" is a lie. Same with the globe...
They are not breaking through the firmament the sun and moon are within the firmament maybe 😊
@@paulw316 I agree with you but was hoping that Tim got red pilled and would admit it too.
@@paulw316
That is completely wrong. The moon is 384,000 miles away from earth and the sun is 93,000,000 miles away.
A flat earth with a local sun really doesn't work. There is absolutely no flat earth model that functions as well as the globe model.
@@OGKenG Exactly!
Question: If the biblical authors use "ancient physics", which we today would consider scientifically inaccurate, why do we trust their metaphysical conclusions? As an example, if someone made the argument "Because God built a solid dome around us, therefore he is really powerful and cares for us", then I would respond with "Since the premise is false, the conclusion does not necessarily follow". I'm not arguing against the Bible here, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this topic.
Feel free to respond. Thanks!
Try also Dr John Walton (expert on ancient neareast texts)… books & UA-cam lectures - another interesting perspective to help us modern minded, scientific age people to grasp what these ancient texts were communicating.
@King_of_Hogwartz2 Thanks for your response! What I still ask myself is, "How can I know that the ancient hebrews' meta claims are true when their cosmology claims are not?"
@trapd00rspider Thank you for sharing your thoughts! The Case for Christ is a great book, and I am a frequent viewer of InspiringPhilosophy as well, although I have noticed that his views differ from BibleProject on some points.
Your last part about Jesus resonates with what I've been thinking lately. If he wasn't raised from the dead, there would be no reason for me to take the metaphysics of the Hebrew scriptures seriously. They would still be interesting to read but no more than that.
However, I am still wondering about passages that make arguments based on, for instance, the historicity of Adam and Eve, something that I would consider part of the "physical" statements of Genesis rather than the "metaphysical". Such as Mat 19:4-6 or 1 Tim 2:11-15. So I would say that the new testament authors "founded their understanding of God on their cosmology" as you put it. But maybe I am stretching the meaning of the term cosmology here.
Hey David, the question you raise is a very important one. As the Bible says a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
So I think the essence of your question is spot on. Truth be told I am a Bible, believing evangelical Christian, so parse what I say, but I believe the Bible itself can withstand the rigors of scientific and philosophic inquiry.
Continued… So one possible solution is to argue that the cosmology present in Genesis chapter 1 reflects a much deeper understanding rather than an ancient historical one. That is to say there was a conjoining of the metaphysical, and the ontological in ways that are not present today.
That is to say, if we except the notion that metaphysical entities exist than the epistemological justification rest upon whether we are consistent with the use of the term or terms.
I argue that the Bible is consistent. Specifically, it may be argued that the word firmament Raquia also is a reference to the “sea of glass” in Revelation.
Why is this important? It is important because the firmament will represent a division between the metaphysical and the purely physical. But by definition, the metaphysical is outside the realms of empirical observation. However, we can see that the Bible is consistent in the use of the term Rakiyah.
And this is not merely a question of “Faith“ has some have defined it
Is the raqia the sky?
I think this explains why expanse is a better translation than firmament, aspecially as firmament is itself such an idiosyncratic word, applied somewhat anachronistically when employed.
Expanse fits the ACTION of the spreading or hammering out without overly relying on speculations of WHAT it metaphysically IS. The Mesopotamian imagery might facilitate that, but scripture never relies on trying to flesh this out beyond the phenomenalogical, except when lapsing into the poetic, which isn't the same thing.
Intelligent question 12:45
agreed. not sure if I’m reading into things - but don’t feel like she got validated for her intelligence the way others did at all …
Clouds are fed with???