*Why am I seeing ads on this video?* We are a nonprofit, crowdfunded organization and don’t make any money from advertising. Because of music licensing restrictions, we are unable to control ads on this video. 100% of our videos, podcasts, and educational resources are available for free. You can listen to our entire podcast library, check out our other resources, and give at bibleproject.com
As a Christian convert, it has always confused me, as I’ve been very interested in the first 200 years of Christian history, where the concept of heaven and hell came from. The more I learn about second temple Judaism, the early church, and the Bible in context, the more I see man-made traditions entering in as Christian doctrine. I love this channel as it takes a historical and accurate interpretation of the scriptures!
@@4jgarner Jon can say what he would like if he had anything, but for me there are many. What first comes to mind are church services themselves. No where in both the new and old testaments is there a description a weekly worship service. I believe the closest is "don't neglect to meet together" in one of the letters, which is hardly a strong case for what we do today. I also think of the holidays we have. Christmas, Easter, lent, and ash Wednesday are thing we've done long after. Many of them have origins in other religions or cultures. Even Jesus had to deal with it. More than once was he asked about things like the hand washing ritual or working on the sabbath or fasting. All the pharisee's accusations were about the extra rules man made around these practices. These are only a few things, but many more can be found. I'm not saying any of these things are necessarily wrong or bad either. Many people want or need more concrete rules and structure and I think traditions tend to come out of that desire. The problem becomes when you do things "because it's tradition" or "that's what we always do" and not for God.
@@4jgarner I would suggest reading the book Pagan Christianity, which should answer every man-made thing that has entered the Church since its inception. 10/10 book! I loved it and the author (Frank) has some other really great books!
I love the Bible project! God has helped me through so many tough times. Right now he gave me peace that surpasses understanding. Also he giving me my health back. Amen! Glory to God!
*Holy Qur'an* About the *Creator* of all worlds *42:5 Holy Qur'an* تَكَادُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتُ يَتَفَطَّرْنَ مِن فَوْقِهِنَّ ۚ وَٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ يُسَبِّحُونَ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّهِمْ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُونَ لِمَن فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْغَفُورُ ٱلرَّحِيمُ ٥ The heavens almost burst apart above them [in awe of Him], and the angels glorify the praises of their Lord, and seek forgiveness for those on earth. Indeed, *Allah* is the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful. *2:136 Holy Qur'an* Say, O believers, “We believe in *Allah* and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to *Allah* we all submit.”
I come to find God through the darkness. Thank you through these painful times. You two and your staff for me closer to being healed and salvation. God bless
*3:59** Holy Qur'an* إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ ءَادَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُۥ مِن تُرَابٍۢ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُۥ كُن فَيَكُونُ ٥٩ Indeed, the example of Jesus to *Allāh* is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.
Know your not alone. You've never been alone, at this moment or in the end. Each moment spent awake is something that's specifically meant for you. Keep your heart in peace. Spend what you can't get back, TIME. Spend time in loving those that count on you. Give yourself up to the Word, be patient and watch how GOD will put the JOY back in your heart. Allow the Spirit to mature in you. Stay out of your own way and enjoy. Your friend, ❤️ J
*Glorious Qur'an* 41:43 مَّا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍۢ وَذُو عِقَابٍ أَلِيمٍۢ ٤٣ Nothing is said to you, [O Muḥammad], except what was already said to the messengers before you. Indeed, your Lord is a possessor of forgiveness and a possessor of painful penalty. *2:136* Say, O believers, “We believe in *Allah* and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to *Allah* we all submit.”
Great episode! A great book that helped me to understand how Platonic and other traditions got into the early Church and that helped me understand "Heaven" in the way shared here is N.T. Wright's book: Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church. For a while, I had believed Heaven was someplace in the cosmos where our disembodied souls go after we die. Then studying passages like 1 Corinthians 15 taught me that there will be a bodily resurrection and lead to an 18-month study on it. Thank you, Bible Project, for all these great teachings!!
hiii, I’m quite young n using your channel has helped me so much with reading/understanding The Word, so thank you so much you are really making a difference
I *could* be wrong from just listening to the first couple minutes but I believe this conversation was from early on in bible projects history. Easiest way to listen to it is probably getting the app for your phone and checking where it has all the podcasts grouped by topic. No need to wait!
Hello there, grew up Fundamental/Evangelical, life has landed me at Agnostic Atheist now. I have never stopped listening to The Bible Project, and I really appreciate your viewpoints, analysis, exegesis and perspective on the Bible. Thanks for what you all do!
Same here. Not been a Christian for 2 years but still love listening to all the BP podcasts. It teaches so much cool stuff that I never learnt in church!
@@FaughtyEmit Yeah, there's a lot of vitriol and distaste for the Bible coming from the atheist community. And I get it, a lot of people have been harmed by the church, Christians, and those who claim the Bible. But the fact remains that the Bible is a massively important and beautiful book. The Bible Project does a lot to educate people about the amazing stories and tales in the Bible.
I ask this in all sincerity but is there a chance you've thrown out the baby with the bathwater? Certainly there's a sense in which the Church exemplifies Christ on Earth but it would be a category mistake to confuse the person of Jesus with those who profess to follow him. The Church collects only broken sinners and it should be no surprise that we oftentimes hurt each other. But Christianity stands or falls on the person and work of Christ. I've never lost that vision, even in seasons where God's people disappointed me. Blessings to you.
@@mchristr Thanks for the honest and non-demeaning question. I truly appreciate that as usually I get the "you were never a true believer" or "you're just lying" treatment... Anyways, to answer your question, at least in part. While I have some small experience with the brokenness and hurt that the people of the church can cause, that is far from the reason that I questioned and left the faith. For me it started as theological questions and debates, morphed into the historicity of the Bible, and eventually led to me questioning plausibility of a god in general. I don't feel the need to go into great detail, but what ended up happening is that as I grew and learned about the nature of the world and the sciences, I fell into the God of the Gaps fallacy, and eventually realized that a God of the Gaps is really no god at all. In short for me, it was the fact that as we understand more of the world, the more incompatible any but the most unrealistic deities becomes. By unrealistic, I mean existing outside of reality, with abilities, thought processes, and motives that are neither existing in our concept of reality, or applicable to human's lived reality. Sorry if that isn't a very thorough or satisfying answer. I feel somewhat limited by just writing a short youtube comment, haha. My point really is that the people of the church and Christians in general are certainly not why I left. Surely there are problems. But there are deplorable individuals in all walks of life and world views. Just as there are (I believe) mostly wonderful, loving, and reasonable people in all walks of life, religions, and world views.
33:18; I heard someone’s comment regarding the third heaven. He said that the first is our sky, the second outer space, and the third where God is. He also said that Paul’s vision is when Paul briefly went to heaven after being stoned to death in the book of Acts. Love your discussions. May God continue to bless your work.
Worth noting that sky שמיים (shamime) sounds close to water מים (mime). I don't know if there is a connection there, but I can guess at face value that the sky during the day looks like water, so that's why the words may be similar.
Talk about perfect timing! I'm currently reading a book called "Heaven" which answers questions biblically about Heaven, what it's like, who we'll be, etc. The author is Randy Alcorn if anyone is interested.
It’s not perfect timing, it’s God’s Holy Spirit confirming that the book you’re reading is what He wants you to read at this moment for your spiritual growth. God bless you!
I have been doing a weekly online course of study with an Aramaic Bible scholar and translator Dr Rocco Errico and he taught us from the perspective of the ancient Aramaic and Hebrew languages which is a very idiomatic and symbolic language but unfortunately later generations especially English speakers read these ancient texts literally so many words sound strangely puzzling or even ridiculous. The ancient peoples were VERY advanced spiritually compared to our vast modern populations. KJV is a pretty bad translation to follow literally. Back then in the ancient times the sky meant heaven partly because we look up at it and in consciousness we need to raise our thinking UP to feel close to God. No God has no throne because God is not reduced to being a physical super human...God is SPIRIT so needs no throne..You two guys have explained the metaphorical throne idea very well!! Dr Errico taught us that the "coming on a cloud" (Jesus' return) is a metaphor...this "arriving on a cloud" in those times meant "arriving or being seen with enormous admiration and as greatly successful "
I'm 56 and brought up Southern Baptist . Now jn the non denominational Christian Church. I've heard others there for the last several years say..things like" As we bring Heaven to Earth ." And also a basic belief that I did question my still Southern Baptist educated family. 1 out of 4, had a clue what I was talking about.. I didnt fo past the Lords prayer. Ok.. But yes we had the sky heaven place we think our loved ones go too now. BUT I have always been taught God is everywhere. Interesting... And we don't know.. But it is huge and very important missing piece to a puzzle when my whole life earth now by preachers and more is all doom and gloom... God created Earth.. We have beauty here. We do and still believe God is everywhere.. in us as the Holy Spirit too.
Happy, Healthy and Safe 2023 to all. I pray that this year all lies of the world's "leaders" will be revealed. The first heaven is the sky we see and the 'heavens of heaven' is outer space.
The expanse is a solid material. We live in a space, time, and matter universe.... space is not some emptiness, but it is a matter that holds matter. This is why THE Bible alludes to GOD rolling the universe like a scroll. This is why scientists say that the universe is expanding
the Bible says the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll in Isaiah 34:4, not rolled open but rolled closed. i don't believe this Bible verse has anything to do with the theory of the universe expanding...
@@ad-chi5920 I did not say that it says the universe is expanding. I mentioned it to because it does mention the universe as a material that can be rolled like a scroll
The Holy Spirit laid on my heart that Heaven is a planet just like Earth. Look at it closely -- The Heaven and The Earth -- the could be read like this... In the beginning God created the planet Heaven and the planet Earth -- after that the heavens were made (or the universe as we know it). Be blessed. SisterJoy, Toronto, Canada🥰
@@jazziejoyful Genesis 1 tells us we live under a firmament solid enough to hold back water. He tells us He hung the sun, moon and stars within the firmament. He tells us that the moon has its own light, not that the sun shines on it. Either God or man is lying. Job 38:14 says the Earth takes form like clay under a seal. Over and over the Bible says the Earth does not move. 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 33:8-9, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 14:7, Zechariah 1:12 (just a small sampling) Man tells us we come from primordial goo, that the Earth is billions of years old and that we live on a spinning ball that water clings to. We are supposedly hurdling through "space" at a curious 66,600 mph while spinning at 1000 mph yet Polaris stays fixed year after year, age after age. There is not one Scripture that says we live on a planet in an infinite Universe.
@@jannaswanson271 The bible is a library of different books, written by different authors, to different groups of people or individuals, written in different times of antiquity, that were later deemed to be consistent with one another (consistent in content, context, etc), and that many (not all) deemed by faith to be inspired by God. Thats what the bible is and it was put together for the benefit of all mankind. In contrast, the bible is not a library of science academia textbooks. Nor did the authors write a book supernaturally with their eyes closed, or write while transfixed in a supernatural trance of omnipotence as the creation of all reality If people expect a perfectly accurate/omnipotent description of the universe from the book of Genesis, or from any other book of the bible, it's a testament to how they think the bible was written and put together.
@@internetneverlies "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 You do not have to believe in the authority of the Bible but trust me there will be a time that you will wish that you would have. There is no science that is not of God except the things that men call science yet are myths and lies.
This makes me think of The Revelation vision. “I saw the New Jerusalem COMING DOWN ….” Sounds like it’s coming down to OVERLAP with Earth in this New Heaven New Earth Resurrection life IN CHRIST! Woahhhhhh ❤❤❤
Even if heaven isn’t full of fluffy clouds, harps and angels, I don’t mind. All I care about is being with God. I could be anywhere as long as he’s there with me.
Have you guys read Matthieu Pageau’s book The Language of Creation? It was life changing for me. The whole book is about rediscovering the ancient understanding of heaven and earth and how they interact.
Oh as an educator. Just thinking about we have seen out there and not saw heaven.. We have absolutely saw a lot more than anyone before us... But we still have no clue how large and vast the universe really is...
What is heaven ? Basically, it is the atmosphere that we breathe, for Genesis 1:6-8 gives this explanation regarding "heaven": "Then God said: “Let there be an expanse ("expanse", Hebrew raqia, meaning "properly, an expanse, visible arch of the sky") between the waters (or a division between the seas on land and the waters high within the atmosphere, called “the heavenly ocean.” Hebrew, ham·mab·bul´ , see Gen 6:17, that are now our oceans), and let there be a division between the waters and the waters." "Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. God called the expanse Heaven ("Heaven", Hebrew shamayim, meaning "to be lofty, the sky"). And there was evening and there was morning, a second day."(New World Translation) At Psalms 19:1, it says: "The heavens (Hebrew shamayim) are declaring the glory of God; The skies (Hebrew raqia) above proclaim the work of his hands." So, at Genesis 1:1, it says that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", or that God created the earth with its atmosphere, for all the different living creatures, such as insects, arachnids, bacteria, fish, birds, animals, mankind, etc. are "breathers" or souls (Hebrew nephesh), which is what the Hebrew word nephesh literally means, "breather" or that which breathes oxygen in order to be alive. Thus, at Genesis 2:7, concerning the first man Adam ("Adam" Hebrew 'adam, meaning "earthling man, a human being"), it says: "And the Lord God formed man ("man", Hebrew 'adam) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul ("soul", nephesh, or a living "breather" or a living person)."(King James Bible) At Matthews 24:30, Jesus says: "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ("heaven", Greek ouranos, meaning "the sky"): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(King James Bible) So, when "Elijah ascended to the heavens in the windstorm" at 2 Kings 2:11, he was NOT taken before God's presence (for "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom", 1 Cor 15:50), but rather was "flown" by means of God's holy spirit (that looked like "a fiery chariot and fiery horses") through the sky or atmosphere to another location in Israel, for some years later, during the reign of King Jehoram of Judah (reigned about 911-903 B.C.E.), he wrote him a message, condemning his wickedness for killing his six fleshly brothers and some of the princes of Israel and told him that he would suffer horrendously till he died.(2 Chron 21:4, 12-15) When Jesus spoke of "the Kingdom of the heavens" at Matthew 13:11, he was speaking of a government that would literally (or in the spirit realm) and spiritually be above the earth or "in heaven" (or "over the earth", see Rev 5:10, whereby the Greek word epi is used, and the context shows as "over the earth" and NOT "on the earth") and not be "earthly", that it would not be defined by the way human political governments are, animalistic (see James 3:15, 16), beastly, horrid, murderous (see Rev 13:1, 2), but would be "above" these wicked attitudes, for God's heavenly Kingdom requires that its members and subjects "strip off the old personality" and put on the "new personality" that is patterned after God (Col 3:9, 10), whose name is Jehovah (see Isa 12:2, KJV), whose dominant quality is love.(1 John 4:8; see also James 3:17, 18) Some might say, What about where it says "the stars of the heavens" as at Genesis 22:17 with regard to Abraham's offspring ? This means that a person must look through "the heavens" to see the stars, and they appear as if they are part of our sky or atmosphere, such as when the moon is seemingly large, so that it is as if we could reach out and touch it, as if it is were within our sky. That this is the case, is seen at Genesis 1:14-16, whereby it says: "Then God said: “Let there be luminaries IN the expanse of the heavens (or making it appear as if they are in the atmosphere, in which the atmosphere was created as clear, easy to see through) to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. They will serve as luminaries IN the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it was so. And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary (the sun) for dominating the day and the lesser luminary (the moon) for dominating the night, and also the stars."(New World Translation) At Isaiah 66:1, it says: "This is what Jehovah says: “The heavens (or in this case, the spirit realm, that which is "lofty" above the earth) are my throne, and the earth is my footstool." So, when the "heavens" is seen in the Bible, it is that which above the earth, that which is "lofty" or "exalted" above or "over mankind".(see 2 Sam 23:3)
I deeply appreciate your textual and etymological exploration of the Bible, I don’t find Christianity being discussed in the in depth and methodical way very often. That being said id very much appreciate if some of the consensus of biblical studies could be somehow cited so that could stand on its own in relationship to what my be considered a more personal interpretation on your part.
The skies plurality makes sense we always say “lands and seas” like the seven seas or “he ruled across the lands” even though the seas are pretty much all connected
Great podcast! Maybe it’s mentioned later, but doesn't the Book of Job say God suspends the earth over nothing? Wouldn’t that mean that the ancient authors of the Bible knew that pillars did not hold up the planet? I could be wrong since I still have much to learn about the scriptures. (Which is why I’m here, I appreciate everything you guys do.) May you be blessed.
I have always had this same question. Hint: I go to prepare a place for you. There is probably so much more to this story than we can imagine. For example if God is still creating other planets or dimensions, he would not have been able to explain that to them, because they didn’t have a scientific conception of the universe. My son is a physicist and he can prove mathematically multi dimensions. There is still so much we don’t know.
@@rhondarockhound622 hint: heavens and earth were finished in six days of creation, and also new creation is set for the time after the great judgement... Christ going in heaven to prepare a place for us probably doesn't apply to any new creational activity in sense of some new realm... I am very sceptic about the existence of any multi universe or hyper dimensional concept even if it is mathematically provable.
@24:50 it's impossible heaven and earth will be together without Jesus would made himself as an stairway or ramp that unified both heaven and earth. Blessed be our God.
I have heard several teachers state as you do, that the OT Hebrew understanding of heaven and earth in the garden, and in the temple, and they looked forward to the reuniting of heaven and earth; but they don’t quote any sources. Can you suggest some reading on this?
The expanse is not actually solid? Are you serious? Have you no knowledge of the fabric of space? It is not nothing. It has many physical properties that make it a solid something. Our knowledge of it is still quite rudimentary. But we have known for several decades that it is far from being nothing. It most certainly is solid. If you want to get an idea of the magnitude of its not-nothingness, look up zero point energy. And, by the way, our atmosphere is the same stuff, but with air occupying it. The biblical word does a great job of describing it as something solid. It is so firm, we cannot even imagine a good way to even affect it. Oh, and think about this. Light is a wave of energy. Waves cannot propagate through nothing. Waves can only propagate through something. Space is not nothing. It is something with physical properties.
Glasses have two pieces of glass. Clothes have multiple pieces of cloth. The heavens have multiple heavens, the sky, space, and heaven Also, I don't see where it says the earth is flat, as folks say
Can you please link to the video? I don’t remember it, and I can’t find it even after searching through your many videos and playlists. I feel like this year (2022) there weren’t many videos posted at all. And I am a subscriber with the bell notification listed. I’ve missed the shorter teaching videos. I’m very happy to get these podcast videos; I enjoy the long form video also, but I do wish you would start putting up the shorter teaching videos. And at least please link this video that you first referenced at the start of this conversation.
The earth is fixed and immobile set on firm foundations . 1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..." Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken." Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..." On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
@@residuejunkie4321 Good luck getting there then for you go against the word of God not me. JOB 38 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;.." The earth is fixed an immobile built on solid foundations unlike your interpretation of scripture . The earth is fixed and immobile set on firm foundations . 1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..." Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken." Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..." On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. 1
Believe IN the actual word of God and redemption through Christ Jesus , easy we will be saved , you on the other hand believe in the authority of man and you will answer to God for that good luck you will need it .
So easy, believe the Bible- not man. We live on a flat plane under a firmament that is solid enough to hold back water. The sun, moon and stars have been hung in the firmament. The moon is a luminary- the sun does not shine on it like man says. The Bible also says over and over that the Earth does not move. 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 33:8-9, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 14:7, Zechariah 1:12
When Paul talks about the third heaven in his letters and I consider that with the ancient near Eastern cosmology of the firmament as the first level and then beyond the foundations of the Earth think of it like steel deck which holds the sky in place and gives it the shape it has.. beyond that the second level which are where the stars in the planets are then beyond that which would be the third level are the Waters of the heavens where we get the rain from and the domain of Hashem is beyond that.
You said no one will ever be zapped up into heaven again (37:58-38:09.) However, the Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV) that, "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." People will get zapped up to "heaven" during the Rapture, and is reason why Christians shouldn't fear it but earnestly look forward to it cause we'll be fully united with Jesus then. I believe Christians are wrongly focusing only on going to heaven and avoiding hell. We have so much more to look forward to, like the Redemption of the sons of God that will happen during the Rapture, which all of creation is looking forward to (Romans 8:18-39.) I really enjoy listening to your talks and watching your videos, and it'd be lovely if you could talk about this more in your future episodes, or even a new series, because a lot of people seem to lose sight of things like Rapture.
“Rapture”, although the word in English now means an emotional state, something akin to a frenzy or trance, originally just meant “snatched away”. It occurs in several Bible verses, but the one that is the base of some Protestant churches’ teaching about a “rapture to heaven” is based on a misreading of these two verses: 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (NIV) Clearly all the other New Testament and Old Testament teaching which talk about an angelic gathering show that the destination of the gathering is not the air (nor “heaven” which is not even mentioned in Paul’s verses above), but Jerusalem for judgement: Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Mark 13:27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. See context of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 above to see that the destination is Jerusalem, not heaven. This connection to Jerusalem is shown also in John 19’s use of Zecharian 12: Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. John 19:37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.” This interpretation also agrees with Acts 1:11 where the angels tell the disciples that Jesus will come in the same way that he left. So: Acts 1:11 : Mount of Olives -> clouds -> Heaven, reversed becomes (1 Thessalonians 4:17, Mark 24:31, John 19:37) Heaven -> clouds -> Mount of Olives. See also the answer by Ron Abel, from Wrested Scriptures: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Caught up . . . in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Problem: This passage is the foundation text for the Evangelicals doctrine of the “rapture of the church”, i.e., that at the second coming, Christ will gather the saints together, take them to heaven, and rule over, but not on the earth. Solution: Nowhere does this pasage state that the saints are taken to heaven. The evidence is the other way, since “the Lord shall descend from heaven” (vs. 16). “And so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Where? On the earth, not in heaven. This is the testimony of the Apostle Paul elsewhere in his writings. (Rom. 4:13 cf. Gen. 13:15 and Gal. 3:27-29) and the teaching of scores of Biblical references (E.g. Dan. 7:18-27 esp. verse 27; Psa. 37:11, 22, 29; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 5:10.) Even if the passage be taken literally, the meeting of the Lord and the saints is said to be in the air. But the air extends upwards for 600 miles (a generous estimate). Are the saints to spend eternity suspended in mid-air? If it is contended that the saints only meet the Lord and are then taken up to heaven, then proof that such is the case is required. It does not come from this passage. The Greek word, “harpazo” translated “caught up” does not in itself denote direction (either up or down). It simply means, “to snatch away.”1 Its usage is illustrated in the following references where the same verb occurs: “The spirit of the Lord caught away Philip.” (Acts 8:39). “The wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.” (John 10:12). “No man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” (John 10:29). What is meant by “the clouds”? Three possibilities exist. These are as follows: The saints are caught away in literal clouds. Jesus was taken from the disciples’ gaze by a cloud. (Acts 1:9). He will return with the same literal clouds. See Rev. 1:7 cf. Dan. 7:13; Matt. 24:30. The clouds refer to large numbers of saints. The Greek text does not contain the definite article. The passage reads, therefore: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught away in clouds” (i.e., clouds of saints). Support for this interpretation is found in Heb. 12:1 where a similar image is used: “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. . . ” (i.e., the faithful listed in Heb. 11). Saints are compared with the innumerable water droplets comprising a great cloud. Some have seen the further image of the saints being exhaled from the sea of nations by the powerful beams of the Sun of Righteousness. The clouds are those of divine glory, indicating the Divine Presence. It is stated in Matt 24:30 that the Son of man will come “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”, but it is not certain that the great glory refers to the clouds of heaven. One disadvantage with this interpretation is that the divine cloud is invariably one cloud.2 The word “clouds” in 1 Thess. 4:17 is plural. It was the cloud which covered Mt. Sinai (Ex. 34:5) and guided Israel during the wilderness journeyings. (Ex. 13:21; 14:19). Similarly, it was the cloud of glory which filled the Tabernacle (Nu. 9:15,16) and the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 8:11).
Excellent study. If we don't ignore common sense then, we must come to the conclusion that, in the beginning, Genesis 1:1 *the heaven and earth were one place* since Scripture says, sin separates man from God and Adam had not sinned until Genesis 3:6. *We've been handed down a wrong interpretation of the Bible* from the beginning.
The Bible Project starts by disparaging "people's" misconceptions about heaven (e.g. that it is a city in the clouds, pearly gates, etc). However, there is a reason for this. The Bible itself describes the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven (Rev 21:2). Also, Rev 21:21 describes "the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass" The Bible Project: "In the Old Testament, there is no concept of going up to that space (heaven). The point of the Elijah story is that it is so unique and unrepeatable that no one else will experience that" I wonder why this is their conclusion. Jesus, when challenged by the Sadducees about resurrection, basically told them that they do not understand Scripture (Old Testament), and that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive still (Matthew 22:23-46). I understand perhaps challenging the specifics on where people are residing after death (heaven or some other place), but the Bible Project clearly teaches that the Old Testament teaches that "humans go into the dirt after death", which seems to contradict Jesus' own understanding of the Old Testament.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” The Greek word translated “living” is a participle, and in this context, the participle is not defining a current state of being, but rather a state of being that has occurred or will occur at some point in time. In this case, the dead people are not “living” now, but because God is the God of the living, He is saying that the people will be alive in the future. In the future, at the resurrection of the dead, dead people will hear the voice of the Son of God and be resurrected in a physical body just like Christ had a physical body (John 5:25-29; Luke 24:39; 1 John 3:2; Phil. 3:21). Jesus used the example of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to prove that God would raise the dead because if those men were dead and gone forever, God would not say He was their God, He would say He had been their God.
The noted New Testament scholar, N. T. Wright, wrote about this record about Jesus and the Sadducees discussing resurrection, which occurs in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Concerning what Christ taught. Wright wrote, “People are easily confused here. I frequently hear ‘resurrection’ used to mean simply ‘life after death’; and since many imagine life after death taking place in a disembodied state called ‘heaven’ where (among other things) angels may be found, they understand a passage like this to be saying after death you will go to heaven, and be a disembodied spirit like an angel-and that will be resurrection. That is precisely what this passage, and the New Testament teaching about resurrection in general, does not mean. The whole point of the Jewish doctrine of resurrection was that it meant a new embodied life, a life that would be given at some future date…. Saying that the resurrected dead will be ‘like angels in heaven’ does not mean they will be like them in all respects, including disembodiment. They are like angels in this respect only: that they will not marry. This is Jesus’s first point: resurrection, which he affirms, will not simply reproduce every aspect of our present humanity. It will be a recognizable and reembodied human existence…. Second, Jesus finds a passage at the heart of the Pentateuch, acknowledged by the Sadducees as authoritative, which, he claims, demonstrates that the dead will indeed be raised. When God meets Moses at the burning bush, he introduces himself as Abraham’s God, Isaac’s God and Jacob’s God. If this is how God chooses to reveal himself, argues Jesus, it cannot be the case that the patriarchs are dead and gone for ever. This again can be misunderstood. Jesus is not simply saying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still alive in the presence of God, and that their present afterlife is what is meant by ‘resurrection’. Everybody knew that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had not yet been raised from the dead. The point is precisely that they are ‘dead’ at present, but that since God desires to be known as their God he must be intending to raise them from death in the future. ‘Resurrection’, in other words, is not another, somewhat nicer, description of ‘being dead’. It is the reversal of death, the gift of a new body to enjoy life in God’s new world.”
Am still early in the video, at about 15:44, but I have some food for thought; when our Lord spoke of Himself He said that He came from above and in returning He ascended bodily, I believe there's significance to His words and ascension. Also, because the Bible is inspired (the Holy Spirit Himself authored it) Genesis can't simply be the thoughts of the author. If it is God speaking He must surely know what He is talking about. Finally, in God's conversation with Job or His questioning of Job 38:4 God Himself mentions and asks about the foundations of the earth, that last point is not as strong as the first two but I do believe the Bible's description of the cosmology of the world we live in, I really do.
JESUS CHRIST is the SON of GOD. What is the SON of GOD? Gen.1:26 1. SON of GOD means the IMAGE of GOD or the SON of LIGHT. Col.1:15 ; Phil.2:15 ; Heb.1:2-3 GOD is the FATHER of all Light beings. James.1:17 2. SON of GOD means the LIKENESS of GOD or the SON of the Resurrection. Lk.20:35-38 ; 1Cor.15:45-49 GOD is the FATHER of all spirits. Heb.12:9 JESUS was declared the SON of GOD (LIKENESS of GOD) by the Resurrection of the dead. Rom.1:4 HE was described as the Life giving SPIRIT. 2Cor.3:17 JESUS was the only MAN born as the SON of GOD and for this reason HE was called 'the only Begotten SON of GOD'. Lk,1:31-35 ; Jn.1:14, 18 JESUS was the CHRIST, the Promised MAN sent by GOD to replace Adam as the Firstborn SON. For this reason HE must face Sin, Death, and the World, and overcome. All true followers of JESUS must follow after HIM and like HIM become overcomers. We are looking forward to the Day of the LORD which shall usher in the New Heavens and the New Earth. 2Pet.3:10-13 The shaking of the Heavens and the earth may have begun. Heb.12:25-29 The purpose is to remove all wickedness from the Heavens and from the earth. Rev.6:12-17 ; Isa.34:2-5 ; 27:1 ; Malachi.4:1-3 ; 2Thes.1:7-10
@@ngdavid3925 I believe Jesus was in the beginning with God and is God. It's a mystery but true according to scripture, in 1 Timothy 3:16 we learn that without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; God was manifest in the flesh... In the book of Philippians 2:6 we see that Christ is in the form of God. So yes, Jesus is the Son Of God, but that word has more meaning than what men understand yet. As the image of God He is the exact representation of our God, remember God is a Spirit and He is invisible, so when the Word was made flesh (John 1:14) the invisible God was made visible, now by looking at our Lord Jesus Christ we could know how God is like, how He acts, how He thinks etc. He is the revelation of our invisible God. It is by faith therefore in this Jesus the Lord and Christ (trusting Him for forgiveness by His death on our behalf, and our life both for now and eternity) that we are forgiven, justified and adopted by God the Father and have a real and living relationship forever with God, with the Father as our Father (John 20:17), Christ the Son as our eldest brother in this new family (Hebrews 2:11) and the Holy Spirit in us (Galatians 4:6). (All scripture references from KJV)
@@michaelmuthuri7471 Yes, JESUS CHRIST, the SON of GOD is a Mystery, but that does not mean it cannot be known or understood, but rather it simply means 'hidden truth'. Paul was given the Revelation of this Mystery, and he testified that chosen apostles and prophets too received the Revelation. Eph.3:1-5 Unfortunately, many who regarded themselves to be apostles and prophets know next to nothing concerning the Mystery of JESUS CHRIST. Instead of seeing the pure version of the knowledge of the SON of GOD being imparted in the churches, we have the adulterated and polluted version which does not benefit the churches. Paul wrote to the Ephesians these words: 'Till we all come in the unity of the Faith, and of the Knowledge of the SON of GOD, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the Fullness of CHRIST. Eph.4:13 To the Philippians Paul wrote: Yes, doubtless, I count all things loss for the excellency of the Knowledge of CHRIST JESUS, my LORD, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, that I may win CHRIST. Phil.3:8 The Knowledge of the SON of GOD JESUS CHRIST, is the needed input for the church to reach spiritual maturity and the stature of the fullness of CHRIST.
@@ngdavid3925 All true. So I'm confused, do you agree that Christ is indeed God with us? Or does your understanding of Him differ in anyway from anything I've stated?
@@michaelmuthuri7471 The understanding and knowledge of the SON of GOD in the churches is at children's level. The statement that 'JESUS is GOD' is true, but having the right understanding based on the Holy scriptures is necessary. We should not accept any concept that is not stated in the bible, such as 'the GODHEAD is made up of 3 Persons', which is false. The testimony of the prophets and apostles declared that the GODHEAD is one, the FATHER. Isa.64:8 ; Mal.2:10 ; 1Cor.8:6 ; Eph.4:6 The LORD JESUS declared that the GOD of heaven and earth was and is HIS FATHER. Matt.11:25-27 The SON has revealed HIMSELF to the apostles and to Paul. Act.9:20 Eph.3:1-4 All that which Paul has written concerning JESUS CHRIST the SON of GOD, must be rightly understood and balanced with all other scriptures. Paul presented JESUS as the MAN who should replace Adam as promised by the FATHER, who was and is the IMAGE of GOD at birth, and who was and is the LIKENESS of GOD at the Resurrection. 1Cor.15:20-24, 45-49
So the Old Testament is referring to heaven as sky and/or temple, both in an abstract fashion and a literal fashion, depending where in the OT you read? Is that the short of it?
I have a question. Where do angels reside? If my understanding is not crazy to say that they live in a seperate space, and it's not earth. So as you discribed that at some point the earth and heaven will merge. At such time, if l understand you correctly, we the redeemed people will live together with the roghteous angels together in one space. Am l understanding you correctly? Appreciate a reply if possible. Anyone, please.
Then….. -What do we do with the waters that God separated in creation, above and below? No, those waters are not the ones that fall during the regular rains. It was the waters that flood the earth during the Noahs Flood - "the windows of heaven were opened and the fountains of the deep burst forth." -What do we do with the stars that we always see the same ones and the trails that they form? -I don't understand how the Heaven joins an earth that is spinning in itself + throughout the universe. -And no, this is not the way of those writers to see things because they had no way of finding out, on the contrary, they had direct communication with the Creator so I assume they had better information than us. Thinking this is a serious mistake that undermines the credibility of the Bible. I have a different opinion with your way of thinking, but I respect you a lot and I'm still a fan of all your videos! God Blessed!
You're wrong the Bible talks about heaven as being the atmosphere around the Earth, space as we know it in the universe, and a third place referring to that place, outside of our universe, where God lives.
What about when God lived among the Israelites after their release from Egypt? In mt. Sinai - where He gave Moses the 10 commandments? Isn’t that an example of Heaven meeting Earth?
Think about Jacob's dream, what was their understanding about dreams even, did he go somewhere in them, or was their perception that the dream space occurred at their location. As the shrine/temple suggests. It's the same for our/my heaven understanding. I have always thought that modern people think of heaven as in a different dimension, and not bc man has been to space. So when would that transition have occurred, or did it ever occur or even need to, if their mentality was correctly "abstract" in another dimension? We don't know what their spiritual understanding "looked like" to them. Even as the world may not have looked like the flat and dome that you described. Bc I don't think that most of us think about their understanding that way. I know that I didn't, or that the Genesis account would draw that picture, either. It's the Bible that speaks of the foundations of the Earth and of the four winds. Even as those winds are seen as compass directions, could not the corners also have been understood by some, as the same. Even if some sailors could not grasp the flat to round visual, that they always observed on the waters...Even as I have always seen Genesis in spacial relation, why would they not? Even as we can see more depth in the upper "heaven" at night, why wouldn't they? It seems to me that modern thinking about them is more primitive than they might have been....But back to the dream, Jacob and his father and their people were trying to understand this new God, and just what and where his communication was about. But are there hot-spots of better places where God is on earth? I am saying no, bc I've encountered him, the supernatural and even speech, and it wasn't the location but what he did, it's always about Him...It was about location initially, the mountain, shrine, temple and then it moved to the heart and person, salvation. Even as the Spirit was external and became internally, it wasn't about location when it was external; or our location now...So, it's not the.altars that Abram built, or the shrine/temple built where Jacob dreamt, or anyone's dream location, or a highway re: Jesus, but JESUS himself in us, as God, the overlap of heaven on earth. Now wrestle with that. (And what is it that both God and Solomon were really speaking about? The Spirit of God, as he was not flesh, until Jesus, who said that he was the ramp, even with the cross. And it is his Spirit within us. It has all been about Him in us, The Kingdom of Heaven) Praise Him!
Angels are cosmic intelligences. You could call them patterns of being. They are the order in which the world exists. People in the comments are trying to look at everything through a modern materialistic lense and thats not how ancient people viewed the world. Jonathan pageau and John Vervaeke have been having Great talks on this subject and similar ones.
I'm at 7:10 and I'm done listening. I thought I might learn something here. But you're viewing Genesis 1 as having originated from the mind of Man and his perceptions. I happen to believe something called the tablet theory. I was critical of it (as I am with anything I've never heard of) until it answered questions I had struggled with since I was young, and answered them quite well, and without any discernible flaws. This theory places God himself as the actual author of the original physical text of Genesis 1. As such, the heavens were not some perception in the mind of a human, in Genesis 1, but rather an accurate assessment of what they actually are. Also, I have done a deep dive into Genesis 1, a very very deep dive. And most importantly, I assumed that it was written, not just by God himself, but, most importantly, when no other text existed. In other words, the only allowable context for Genesis 1 is Genesis 1 itself. I did not allow any outside ideas to influence my perceptions of what is already there. And what I found in the first 4 days of creation blew me away. I had never heard anyone teach those things, ever. Here, I'll share just a few of those things. Long story short, with a focus on the current topic, in verse 1, the heavens and the earth, IN VERSE ONE, was a reference to nothing more than a big ball of pure water, as becomes clear in verse 2. However, on day 1, there was no separation between anything. It's all together in a single mass and it's nothing but pure water, until the light is called forth (which transforms the pure water into all the elements that exist today, though it does not say how). None of it is separated until day 2. And on day 2, God called for the expanse which divided all the heavenly bodies from each other. In the call for this expanse, God did not say above or below. But after the expanse began, God shifted his focus closer to his goal (us), the surface of this planet, from where everything else is above. Once he made that shift in his focus, the waters below was a reference to our planet, from which the dry land later emerged on day 3, which is what God called earth (specifically the dry land, not the planet). The waters above made reference to all heavenly bodies above our planet. The heavens were the expanse, on day 2, which includes our skies, outer space, and any other place where any expanse divided any objects from one another, including other dimensions, even the dimensions where the angels dwell (which are outside our 3 dimensions). The sun, moon, and stars were not visible until day 4, which is when God caused them to come into view, specifically so they could serve the purpose which God stated for them (signs, seasons, etc) when he brought them into view of our planet. A sloppy reading of the text leaves the reader thinking day 4 is when God created the sun, moon, and stars. But a mindful reading makes it clear that that is when they became visible, but more specifically when they were assigned their purpose. And the beginning of their purpose is what the sloppy reader fails to notice. Before this statement, they did not have that purpose. This is when that purpose began, even thought these objects did exist before this purpose was assigned. It is the purpose which began here, not the objects. And yet, the objects were not visible until day 4, which is quite provocative (and fits with the white hole theory, by Dr Russell Humphreys). (This only makes sense if, before day 4, our galaxy was still inside a black hole {an idea from outside the text but fitting what is in the text} before the expanse pulled it out on day 4. The fabric of space is able to move faster than light, much much faster. The original mass, all in one place, would have generated a black hole, inside of which time would run very slowly and light could not travel in a straight line. In fact every photon would exist in multiple places simultaneously. Fun quantum stuff. With the loss of tremendous amounts of mass, multiple galaxies at at time, the event horizon would actually jump across very quickly. The spaghetti effect would not have a chance to do anything, for anyone wanting to object on those grounds. In fact the reduction of the spaghetti effect, especially if graduated, for each galaxy, could even explain the cosmic web we see. This explanation is overly simplified, leaving out magnitudes of details. But I digress.) And this is why I cringe at your weak assessment of the heavens in Genesis 1, as if they originated in the minds of mere humans. And even if I'm wrong about the tablet theory, God still inspired godly men to write scripture, accurately, as in never wrong, and never false. The Bible never contradicts any fact that is known (nor any fact that is not yet known). On second thought, I will go ahead and listen to the rest of this video, just to see if you come around to some form of an inspired view of scripture. But if not, I won't be listening to any more of your flawed naturalistic musings.
Having now listened to the rest of this video, I am left thinking that you view scripture as merely writing that came from the limited thoughts of ancient less informed Man, and that you know better than they do about some of the things they said. Since you do not view the scriptures as being inerrant and from God, then I cannot trust your views that are based on the foundation of your own knowledge which you believe supercedes what is written in scripture. You have elevated your own ideas above what scripture says. And I'm not interested.
Mackie and Collins absolutely consider scripture to be inspired and authoritative. They just believe that it is wrong to completely ignore humanity’s role in bringing scripture together. Throughout the Bible God ALWAYS works WITH people and their limitations, including by coming down as Jesus. The Bible is no different. It is a collaborative work between the inspiration of God and the writing styles and methods of Man. Please look more into what Tim Mackie says about scripture. Also, very very few scholars accept this “Golden Tablets” theory. As a linguist I can tell you for sure that even the mere translation of biblical texts disproves it, because translation cannot capture the cultural or historical meaning that the original authors would have had.
@@ilz_y , I have never heard it called the "Golden tablets" theory. It is possible that you may be thinking of something else. Just to be clear, the tablet theory that I mentioned is also called the Wiseman theory. Either way, you make a claim that "very very few scholars accept" it. That is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Experts can be wrong, even a majority of them. But in regard to your suggestion that I look further into what these guys say, it won't negate what they said in this video. They claim here to know more than those who wrote scripture, and further claim that fallible ideas of Man were incorporated into scripture, a claim which you now affirm. But that makes scripture fallible, and God as well. However, the things which these guys, in this video, think they know better, are in fact fallible ideas that they, in their arrogance, claim to know better than the human authors who wrote under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Even though God does indeed work with flawed humans, his scriptures, in the original autographs, do not contain errors. Neither does scripture contradict any known fact. Assumed facts, on the other hand, there is an abundance of those that contradict scripture. But not even one fact that is known to be a fact contradicts scripture. And the guys in this video have taken for granted that some assumed facts are actual facts, and then assumed that man's fallible ides made it into scripture. But the reverse is true. Man's fallible ideas, in the form of assumed facts, have succeeded in polluting their view of scripture.
Instead of looking for words always plural form, look for nouns that are always in singular form even when plural? Does that make sense. Like deer and deer… in ref to sky in Hebrew.
The First Heaven: form the air of the lower atmosphere on the lowest and deepest points of the land surface and the sea level, to the higher orbit of the Moon, where there's most of celestial and climatic events relevant to us - rain, rainbows, aurora, etc.; The Second Heaven: from the Lunopause (area of orbit and influence of the Moon) to the ends of the Solar System, where the planets, the Sun, and a great mass of the celestial waters (in form of ice from Kuiper's Belt to Oort's Cloud) and "rocks of the firmament" (comets and asteroids) are; The Third Heaven: the greatest and largest of all, encompasses all the space between our planetary system and the Final Borders of this Universe, beyond the visible stars, and all known stars really; The Fourth Heaven, or the Empyrean: from the limits of this Realm or Universe to the beginnings of the primeval "sea" of Chaos, in this one there's other realms adjacent to our Universe, it's where God dwells; The Void: there's nothing but a quantum flow of Chaos in there, a dark and lightless Primeval Ocean of potentiality, the whole of Cosmos down and back from there.
Everything we see now is a corrupted shadow or type of the true. That is why Solomon said, in the Book of Ecclesiastes, that everything under the sun is vanity and Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you. The true heaven and earth in one place. The true heaven is a spiritual mind, where God dwells within man. The corrupted heaven is where the sun and moon have a tabernacle and God dwells separated from man beyond the stars.
148 Praise[a] the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens; Praise Him in the heights! 2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts! 3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light! 4 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens!
@@soundlysbananacam6182 living waters, flowing out of the temple... I like to think of "above" as higher than.... In status, like a president is higher than a vice president, like Willie Nelson is higher than Snoop Dogg... And of course, God is the most high
@@rclark777 I think he's right. Jesus said My Kingdom is not of this world." Meaning God's Kingdom is in the spiritual realm, unseen by human eyes far above the stars and universe. That's how I perceive it anyway.
*Why am I seeing ads on this video?*
We are a nonprofit, crowdfunded organization and don’t make any money from advertising. Because of music licensing restrictions, we are unable to control ads on this video. 100% of our videos, podcasts, and educational resources are available for free. You can listen to our entire podcast library, check out our other resources, and give at bibleproject.com
So, an "lol" moment: you are talking about "the friendly skies" and a Delta commercial pops up. I have never heard one previously
Heaven is Spiritually Mount Zion , and Renewed GanEden ( Garden of Eden ) .
@@roderickd.thornfoundationa5702 We shall see. Keep the faith
As a Christian convert, it has always confused me, as I’ve been very interested in the first 200 years of Christian history, where the concept of heaven and hell came from. The more I learn about second temple Judaism, the early church, and the Bible in context, the more I see man-made traditions entering in as Christian doctrine. I love this channel as it takes a historical and accurate interpretation of the scriptures!
Other than heaven and hell, what would be some of the bigger man made doctrines you see introduced into Christianity?
@@4jgarner Jon can say what he would like if he had anything, but for me there are many.
What first comes to mind are church services themselves. No where in both the new and old testaments is there a description a weekly worship service. I believe the closest is "don't neglect to meet together" in one of the letters, which is hardly a strong case for what we do today.
I also think of the holidays we have. Christmas, Easter, lent, and ash Wednesday are thing we've done long after. Many of them have origins in other religions or cultures.
Even Jesus had to deal with it. More than once was he asked about things like the hand washing ritual or working on the sabbath or fasting. All the pharisee's accusations were about the extra rules man made around these practices.
These are only a few things, but many more can be found. I'm not saying any of these things are necessarily wrong or bad either. Many people want or need more concrete rules and structure and I think traditions tend to come out of that desire. The problem becomes when you do things "because it's tradition" or "that's what we always do" and not for God.
@@4jgarner I would suggest reading the book Pagan Christianity, which should answer every man-made thing that has entered the Church since its inception. 10/10 book! I loved it and the author (Frank) has some other really great books!
@@jongottenbos532 ohh why don't you ask pagan gods to reveal themselves. And ask Jesus to reveal himself. You will know who's the real deal
@@4jgarnertrinity
I love the Bible project! God has helped me through so many tough times. Right now he gave me peace that surpasses understanding. Also he giving me my health back. Amen! Glory to God!
*Holy Qur'an* About the *Creator* of all worlds
*42:5 Holy Qur'an*
تَكَادُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتُ يَتَفَطَّرْنَ مِن فَوْقِهِنَّ ۚ وَٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ يُسَبِّحُونَ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّهِمْ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُونَ لِمَن فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْغَفُورُ ٱلرَّحِيمُ ٥
The heavens almost burst apart above them [in awe of Him], and the angels glorify the praises of their Lord, and seek forgiveness for those on earth. Indeed, *Allah* is the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
*2:136 Holy Qur'an*
Say, O believers, “We believe in *Allah* and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to *Allah* we all submit.”
I come to find God through the darkness. Thank you through these painful times. You two and your staff for me closer to being healed and salvation. God bless
*3:59** Holy Qur'an*
إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ ءَادَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُۥ مِن تُرَابٍۢ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُۥ كُن فَيَكُونُ ٥٩
Indeed, the example of Jesus to *Allāh* is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.
Know your not alone. You've never been alone, at this moment or in the end. Each moment spent awake is something that's specifically meant for you. Keep your heart in peace. Spend what you can't get back, TIME. Spend time in loving those that count on you. Give yourself up to the Word, be patient and watch how GOD will put the JOY back in your heart. Allow the Spirit to mature in you. Stay out of your own way and enjoy.
Your friend, ❤️ J
*Glorious Qur'an*
41:43
مَّا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ ۚ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍۢ وَذُو عِقَابٍ أَلِيمٍۢ ٤٣
Nothing is said to you, [O Muḥammad], except what was already said to the messengers before you. Indeed, your Lord is a possessor of forgiveness and a possessor of painful penalty.
*2:136*
Say, O believers, “We believe in *Allah* and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to *Allah* we all submit.”
Great episode! A great book that helped me to understand how Platonic and other traditions got into the early Church and that helped me understand "Heaven" in the way shared here is N.T. Wright's book: Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church. For a while, I had believed Heaven was someplace in the cosmos where our disembodied souls go after we die. Then studying passages like 1 Corinthians 15 taught me that there will be a bodily resurrection and lead to an 18-month study on it. Thank you, Bible Project, for all these great teachings!!
hiii, I’m quite young n using your channel has helped me so much with reading/understanding The Word, so thank you so much you are really making a difference
I love this channel so much!!!! Thank you so much for sharing your content!!!
Waiting for Heaven and Earth E2. This was amazing.
I *could* be wrong from just listening to the first couple minutes but I believe this conversation was from early on in bible projects history. Easiest way to listen to it is probably getting the app for your phone and checking where it has all the podcasts grouped by topic. No need to wait!
Hello there, grew up Fundamental/Evangelical, life has landed me at Agnostic Atheist now. I have never stopped listening to The Bible Project, and I really appreciate your viewpoints, analysis, exegesis and perspective on the Bible. Thanks for what you all do!
Same here. Not been a Christian for 2 years but still love listening to all the BP podcasts. It teaches so much cool stuff that I never learnt in church!
@@FaughtyEmit Yeah, there's a lot of vitriol and distaste for the Bible coming from the atheist community. And I get it, a lot of people have been harmed by the church, Christians, and those who claim the Bible.
But the fact remains that the Bible is a massively important and beautiful book. The Bible Project does a lot to educate people about the amazing stories and tales in the Bible.
@@nasonguy Amen!
I ask this in all sincerity but is there a chance you've thrown out the baby with the bathwater? Certainly there's a sense in which the Church exemplifies Christ on Earth but it would be a category mistake to confuse the person of Jesus with those who profess to follow him. The Church collects only broken sinners and it should be no surprise that we oftentimes hurt each other. But Christianity stands or falls on the person and work of Christ. I've never lost that vision, even in seasons where God's people disappointed me. Blessings to you.
@@mchristr Thanks for the honest and non-demeaning question. I truly appreciate that as usually I get the "you were never a true believer" or "you're just lying" treatment...
Anyways, to answer your question, at least in part.
While I have some small experience with the brokenness and hurt that the people of the church can cause, that is far from the reason that I questioned and left the faith.
For me it started as theological questions and debates, morphed into the historicity of the Bible, and eventually led to me questioning plausibility of a god in general. I don't feel the need to go into great detail, but what ended up happening is that as I grew and learned about the nature of the world and the sciences, I fell into the God of the Gaps fallacy, and eventually realized that a God of the Gaps is really no god at all.
In short for me, it was the fact that as we understand more of the world, the more incompatible any but the most unrealistic deities becomes. By unrealistic, I mean existing outside of reality, with abilities, thought processes, and motives that are neither existing in our concept of reality, or applicable to human's lived reality.
Sorry if that isn't a very thorough or satisfying answer. I feel somewhat limited by just writing a short youtube comment, haha.
My point really is that the people of the church and Christians in general are certainly not why I left. Surely there are problems. But there are deplorable individuals in all walks of life and world views. Just as there are (I believe) mostly wonderful, loving, and reasonable people in all walks of life, religions, and world views.
I loved this ❤ thanks guys. You guys are your so real and helpful. My germs have germs🤣🤣
My favorite bible peeps, thank you!
I'm so hungry! Keep feeding the Word! You guys are 👍
33:18; I heard someone’s comment regarding the third heaven. He said that the first is our sky, the second outer space, and the third where God is. He also said that Paul’s vision is when Paul briefly went to heaven after being stoned to death in the book of Acts. Love your discussions. May God continue to bless your work.
Except it is not what the Bible says. The Bible tells us there is a firmament solid enough to hold back water.
I'll be praying for you and your family. Don't give up
Worth noting that sky שמיים (shamime) sounds close to water מים (mime). I don't know if there is a connection there, but I can guess at face value that the sky during the day looks like water, so that's why the words may be similar.
Genesis 28 what Jesus said. Just mind blowing thank you so much.
Blessingas and greetings from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Heaven is where God lives and reigns forever!
Not where we go
Thank you.🙏🏾
Is there another place to listen to this series?? 10 minutes in and already had 3 commercial breaks from UA-cam! 🙄
let us come to terms with your truth Lord regardless of what our viewpoint or perspective is on life
The temple learning I didn't know and it is interesting.
Talk about perfect timing! I'm currently reading a book called "Heaven" which answers questions biblically about Heaven, what it's like, who we'll be, etc. The author is Randy Alcorn if anyone is interested.
It’s not perfect timing, it’s God’s Holy Spirit confirming that the book you’re reading is what He wants you to read at this moment for your spiritual growth. God bless you!
@@noranbc It's an amazing read, Nora. I highly recommend it. God bless you too!
Does the book match the teaching on this podcast? Really curious. Thanks.
I have been doing a weekly online course of study with an Aramaic Bible scholar and translator Dr Rocco Errico and he taught us from the perspective of the ancient Aramaic and Hebrew languages which is a very idiomatic and symbolic language but unfortunately later generations especially English speakers read these ancient texts literally so many words sound strangely puzzling or even ridiculous. The ancient peoples were VERY advanced spiritually compared to our vast modern populations. KJV is a pretty bad translation to follow literally. Back then in the ancient times the sky meant heaven partly because we look up at it and in consciousness we need to raise our thinking UP to feel close to God. No God has no throne because God is not reduced to being a physical super human...God is SPIRIT so needs no throne..You two guys have explained the metaphorical throne idea very well!! Dr Errico taught us that the "coming on a cloud" (Jesus' return) is a metaphor...this "arriving on a cloud" in those times meant "arriving or being seen with enormous admiration and as greatly successful "
"And you waters above the heavens!"
I like the way the picture moving along with the video duration 👀
I'm 56 and brought up Southern Baptist . Now jn the non denominational Christian Church. I've heard others there for the last several years say..things like" As we bring Heaven to Earth ." And also a basic belief that I did question my still Southern Baptist educated family. 1
out of 4, had a clue what I was talking about.. I didnt fo past the Lords prayer. Ok.. But yes we had the sky heaven place we think our loved ones go too now. BUT I have always been taught God is everywhere. Interesting... And we don't know.. But it is huge and very important missing piece to a puzzle when my whole life earth now by preachers and more is all doom and gloom... God created Earth.. We have beauty here. We do and still believe God is everywhere.. in us as the Holy Spirit too.
7:17 I guess Hebrew calling the sky “the heavens” would be like us calling the ocean “the depths”?
Happy, Healthy and Safe 2023 to all. I pray that this year all lies of the world's "leaders" will be revealed. The first heaven is the sky we see and the 'heavens of heaven' is outer space.
The expanse is a solid material. We live in a space, time, and matter universe.... space is not some emptiness, but it is a matter that holds matter. This is why THE Bible alludes to GOD rolling the universe like a scroll. This is why scientists say that the universe is expanding
Wrong. And Wrong. And Wrong.
the Bible says the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll in Isaiah 34:4, not rolled open but rolled closed. i don't believe this Bible verse has anything to do with the theory of the universe expanding...
@@ad-chi5920 I did not say that it says the universe is expanding. I mentioned it to because it does mention the universe as a material that can be rolled like a scroll
@@edwinbowles2 ohh, ok
@@ad-chi5920 No problem 😊
The Holy Spirit laid on my heart that Heaven is a planet just like Earth. Look at it closely -- The Heaven and The Earth -- the could be read like this... In the beginning God created the planet Heaven and the planet Earth -- after that the heavens were made (or the universe as we know it). Be blessed. SisterJoy, Toronto, Canada🥰
Except that does not match with the Scriptures.
@@jannaswanson271 Hello :), How do the scriptures describe heaven (from your point of view)?
@@jazziejoyful Genesis 1 tells us we live under a firmament solid enough to hold back water. He tells us He hung the sun, moon and stars within the firmament. He tells us that the moon has its own light, not that the sun shines on it. Either God or man is lying.
Job 38:14 says the Earth takes form like clay under a seal.
Over and over the Bible says the Earth does not move. 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 33:8-9, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 14:7, Zechariah 1:12 (just a small sampling)
Man tells us we come from primordial goo, that the Earth is billions of years old and that we live on a spinning ball that water clings to. We are supposedly hurdling through "space" at a curious 66,600 mph while spinning at 1000 mph yet Polaris stays fixed year after year, age after age.
There is not one Scripture that says we live on a planet in an infinite Universe.
@@jannaswanson271 The bible is a library of different books, written by different authors, to different groups of people or individuals, written in different times of antiquity, that were later deemed to be consistent with one another (consistent in content, context, etc), and that many (not all) deemed by faith to be inspired by God.
Thats what the bible is and it was put together for the benefit of all mankind.
In contrast, the bible is not a library of science academia textbooks. Nor did the authors write a book supernaturally with their eyes closed, or write while transfixed in a supernatural trance of omnipotence as the creation of all reality
If people expect a perfectly accurate/omnipotent description of the universe from the book of Genesis, or from any other book of the bible, it's a testament to how they think the bible was written and put together.
@@internetneverlies "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12
You do not have to believe in the authority of the Bible but trust me there will be a time that you will wish that you would have.
There is no science that is not of God except the things that men call science yet are myths and lies.
nature and spiritual happiness..
This makes me think of The Revelation vision. “I saw the New Jerusalem COMING DOWN ….” Sounds like it’s coming down to OVERLAP with Earth in this New Heaven New Earth Resurrection life IN CHRIST! Woahhhhhh ❤❤❤
Even if heaven isn’t full of fluffy clouds, harps and angels, I don’t mind. All I care about is being with God. I could be anywhere as long as he’s there with me.
No man has ever seen nor can see
I fall asleep to these podcasts lol
thanks for the knowledge 🥰
Another interesting conversation lads 👍🏼🇦🇺
Have you guys read Matthieu Pageau’s book The Language of Creation? It was life changing for me. The whole book is about rediscovering the ancient understanding of heaven and earth and how they interact.
Oh as an educator. Just thinking about we have seen out there and not saw heaven.. We have absolutely saw a lot more than anyone before us... But we still have no clue how large and vast the universe really is...
What is heaven ? Basically, it is the atmosphere that we breathe, for Genesis 1:6-8 gives this explanation regarding "heaven": "Then God said: “Let there be an expanse ("expanse", Hebrew raqia, meaning "properly, an expanse, visible arch of the sky") between the waters (or a division between the seas on land and the waters high within the atmosphere, called “the heavenly ocean.” Hebrew, ham·mab·bul´ , see Gen 6:17, that are now our oceans), and let there be a division between the waters and the waters."
"Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. God called the expanse Heaven ("Heaven", Hebrew shamayim, meaning "to be lofty, the sky"). And there was evening and there was morning, a second day."(New World Translation)
At Psalms 19:1, it says: "The heavens (Hebrew shamayim) are declaring the glory of God; The skies (Hebrew raqia) above proclaim the work of his hands." So, at Genesis 1:1, it says that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", or that God created the earth with its atmosphere, for all the different living creatures, such as insects, arachnids, bacteria, fish, birds, animals, mankind, etc. are "breathers" or souls (Hebrew nephesh), which is what the Hebrew word nephesh literally means, "breather" or that which breathes oxygen in order to be alive.
Thus, at Genesis 2:7, concerning the first man Adam ("Adam" Hebrew 'adam, meaning "earthling man, a human being"), it says: "And the Lord God formed man ("man", Hebrew 'adam) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul ("soul", nephesh, or a living "breather" or a living person)."(King James Bible)
At Matthews 24:30, Jesus says: "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven ("heaven", Greek ouranos, meaning "the sky"): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(King James Bible)
So, when "Elijah ascended to the heavens in the windstorm" at 2 Kings 2:11, he was NOT taken before God's presence (for "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom", 1 Cor 15:50), but rather was "flown" by means of God's holy spirit (that looked like "a fiery chariot and fiery horses") through the sky or atmosphere to another location in Israel, for some years later, during the reign of King Jehoram of Judah (reigned about 911-903 B.C.E.), he wrote him a message, condemning his wickedness for killing his six fleshly brothers and some of the princes of Israel and told him that he would suffer horrendously till he died.(2 Chron 21:4, 12-15)
When Jesus spoke of "the Kingdom of the heavens" at Matthew 13:11, he was speaking of a government that would literally (or in the spirit realm) and spiritually be above the earth or "in heaven" (or "over the earth", see Rev 5:10, whereby the Greek word epi is used, and the context shows as "over the earth" and NOT "on the earth") and not be "earthly", that it would not be defined by the way human political governments are, animalistic (see James 3:15, 16), beastly, horrid, murderous (see Rev 13:1, 2), but would be "above" these wicked attitudes, for God's heavenly Kingdom requires that its members and subjects "strip off the old personality" and put on the "new personality" that is patterned after God (Col 3:9, 10), whose name is Jehovah (see Isa 12:2, KJV), whose dominant quality is love.(1 John 4:8; see also James 3:17, 18)
Some might say, What about where it says "the stars of the heavens" as at Genesis 22:17 with regard to Abraham's offspring ? This means that a person must look through "the heavens" to see the stars, and they appear as if they are part of our sky or atmosphere, such as when the moon is seemingly large, so that it is as if we could reach out and touch it, as if it is were within our sky.
That this is the case, is seen at Genesis 1:14-16, whereby it says: "Then God said: “Let there be luminaries IN the expanse of the heavens (or making it appear as if they are in the atmosphere, in which the atmosphere was created as clear, easy to see through) to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. They will serve as luminaries IN the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it was so. And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary (the sun) for dominating the day and the lesser luminary (the moon) for dominating the night, and also the stars."(New World Translation)
At Isaiah 66:1, it says: "This is what Jehovah says: “The heavens (or in this case, the spirit realm, that which is "lofty" above the earth) are my throne, and the earth is my footstool." So, when the "heavens" is seen in the Bible, it is that which above the earth, that which is "lofty" or "exalted" above or "over mankind".(see 2 Sam 23:3)
Hey I’m a flight attendant for United!!
I deeply appreciate your textual and etymological exploration of the Bible, I don’t find Christianity being discussed in the in depth and methodical way very often. That being said id very much appreciate if some of the consensus of biblical studies could be somehow cited so that could stand on its own in relationship to what my be considered a more personal interpretation on your part.
The skies plurality makes sense we always say “lands and seas” like the seven seas or “he ruled across the lands” even though the seas are pretty much all connected
Great podcast!
Maybe it’s mentioned later, but doesn't the Book of Job say God suspends the earth over nothing? Wouldn’t that mean that the ancient authors of the Bible knew that pillars did not hold up the planet?
I could be wrong since I still have much to learn about the scriptures. (Which is why I’m here, I appreciate everything you guys do.)
May you be blessed.
Where is Christ's physical body at the moment? The same body that ate fish and honey after resurrection, where is it? What are his coordinates?
I have always had this same question. Hint: I go to prepare a place for you. There is probably so much more to this story than we can imagine. For example if God is still creating other planets or dimensions, he would not have been able to explain that to them, because they didn’t have a scientific conception of the universe. My son is a physicist and he can prove mathematically multi dimensions. There is still so much we don’t know.
@@rhondarockhound622 hint: heavens and earth were finished in six days of creation, and also new creation is set for the time after the great judgement... Christ going in heaven to prepare a place for us probably doesn't apply to any new creational activity in sense of some new realm... I am very sceptic about the existence of any multi universe or hyper dimensional concept even if it is mathematically provable.
@@rhondarockhound622 He could if He wanted.
Thank you
@24:50 it's impossible heaven and earth will be together without Jesus would made himself as an stairway or ramp that unified both heaven and earth. Blessed be our God.
Humans were not intended to be separated from God
I have heard several teachers state as you do, that the OT Hebrew understanding of heaven and earth in the garden, and in the temple, and they looked forward to the reuniting of heaven and earth; but they don’t quote any sources. Can you suggest some reading on this?
The expanse is not actually solid? Are you serious? Have you no knowledge of the fabric of space? It is not nothing. It has many physical properties that make it a solid something. Our knowledge of it is still quite rudimentary. But we have known for several decades that it is far from being nothing. It most certainly is solid. If you want to get an idea of the magnitude of its not-nothingness, look up zero point energy. And, by the way, our atmosphere is the same stuff, but with air occupying it. The biblical word does a great job of describing it as something solid. It is so firm, we cannot even imagine a good way to even affect it. Oh, and think about this. Light is a wave of energy. Waves cannot propagate through nothing. Waves can only propagate through something. Space is not nothing. It is something with physical properties.
Hi, Are you going to still release animated videos ?
Feel sorry for you Buddy if you find such informative podcasts boring.
Glasses have two pieces of glass. Clothes have multiple pieces of cloth. The heavens have multiple heavens, the sky, space, and heaven
Also, I don't see where it says the earth is flat, as folks say
Can you please link to the video? I don’t remember it, and I can’t find it even after searching through your many videos and playlists. I feel like this year (2022) there weren’t many videos posted at all. And I am a subscriber with the bell notification listed. I’ve missed the shorter teaching videos. I’m very happy to get these podcast videos; I enjoy the long form video also, but I do wish you would start putting up the shorter teaching videos. And at least please link this video that you first referenced at the start of this conversation.
The Pageau Brothers are having interesting conversations about this topic. Wonder if y’all are familiar with their work?
Isaiah 40:22 the circle of the earth. Flat earth was man’s idea
The Dome that's the layer that you have to break through to get into outer space
I am a bit confused now, do we rest until Jesus returns, wait in an “in-between” or do we meet Jesus right after death?
wow! Jon sounds so young here!!
The earth is fixed and immobile set on firm foundations .
1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."
Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."
Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."
On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
👉🌎🤣
@@xX0IRIDIUM0Xx 🎯❕ *Yeah, and there won't be even ONE of those cult victims in God's Kingdom, because all liars will spend eternity in the Lake!*
@@xX0IRIDIUM0Xx *Then they're really stupid.*
@@residuejunkie4321 Good luck getting there then for you go against the word of God not me.
JOB
38 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;.."
The earth is fixed an immobile built on solid foundations unlike your interpretation of scripture .
The earth is fixed and immobile set on firm foundations .
1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."
Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."
Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."
On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
1
Believe IN the actual word of God and redemption through Christ Jesus , easy we will be saved , you on the other hand believe in the authority of man and you will answer to
God for that good luck you will need it .
@12:15 are we sure the earth isn’t flat with a dome ?
what's the exact name of the intro song?
We Have Gone " Full Circle" with our understanding to the point where some people actually think the earth is flat again.
Can't the firmament just be referencing our atmosphere?
It could be, but people didn’t understand atmosphere in biblical times the way we do now.
So easy, believe the Bible- not man. We live on a flat plane under a firmament that is solid enough to hold back water. The sun, moon and stars have been hung in the firmament. The moon is a luminary- the sun does not shine on it like man says. The Bible also says over and over that the Earth does not move. 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 33:8-9, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Isaiah 14:7, Zechariah 1:12
In Spanish there is just one word for Heaven and sky. Cielo
purgatorio reporting in
When Paul talks about the third heaven in his letters and I consider that with the ancient near Eastern cosmology of the firmament as the first level and then beyond the foundations of the Earth think of it like steel deck which holds the sky in place and gives it the shape it has.. beyond that the second level which are where the stars in the planets are then beyond that which would be the third level are the Waters of the heavens where we get the rain from and the domain of Hashem is beyond that.
You said no one will ever be zapped up into heaven again (37:58-38:09.) However, the Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV) that, "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." People will get zapped up to "heaven" during the Rapture, and is reason why Christians shouldn't fear it but earnestly look forward to it cause we'll be fully united with Jesus then. I believe Christians are wrongly focusing only on going to heaven and avoiding hell. We have so much more to look forward to, like the Redemption of the sons of God that will happen during the Rapture, which all of creation is looking forward to (Romans 8:18-39.) I really enjoy listening to your talks and watching your videos, and it'd be lovely if you could talk about this more in your future episodes, or even a new series, because a lot of people seem to lose sight of things like Rapture.
“Rapture”, although the word in English now means an emotional state, something akin to a frenzy or trance, originally just meant “snatched away”. It occurs in several Bible verses, but the one that is the base of some Protestant churches’ teaching about a “rapture to heaven” is based on a misreading of these two verses:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (NIV)
Clearly all the other New Testament and Old Testament teaching which talk about an angelic gathering show that the destination of the gathering is not the air (nor “heaven” which is not even mentioned in Paul’s verses above), but Jerusalem for judgement:
Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mark 13:27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
See context of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 above to see that the destination is Jerusalem, not heaven. This connection to Jerusalem is shown also in John 19’s use of Zecharian 12:
Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
John 19:37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”
This interpretation also agrees with Acts 1:11 where the angels tell the disciples that Jesus will come in the same way that he left. So: Acts 1:11 : Mount of Olives -> clouds -> Heaven, reversed becomes (1 Thessalonians 4:17, Mark 24:31, John 19:37) Heaven -> clouds -> Mount of Olives.
See also the answer by Ron Abel, from Wrested Scriptures:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
“Caught up . . . in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Problem:
This passage is the foundation text for the Evangelicals doctrine of the “rapture of the church”, i.e., that at the second coming, Christ will gather the saints together, take them to heaven, and rule over, but not on the earth.
Solution:
Nowhere does this pasage state that the saints are taken to heaven. The evidence is the other way, since “the Lord shall descend from heaven” (vs. 16).
“And so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Where? On the earth, not in heaven. This is the testimony of the Apostle Paul elsewhere in his writings. (Rom. 4:13 cf. Gen. 13:15 and Gal. 3:27-29) and the teaching of scores of Biblical references (E.g. Dan. 7:18-27 esp. verse 27; Psa. 37:11, 22, 29; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 5:10.)
Even if the passage be taken literally, the meeting of the Lord and the saints is said to be in the air. But the air extends upwards for 600 miles (a generous estimate). Are the saints to spend eternity suspended in mid-air? If it is contended that the saints only meet the Lord and are then taken up to heaven, then proof that such is the case is required. It does not come from this passage.
The Greek word, “harpazo” translated “caught up” does not in itself denote direction (either up or down). It simply means, “to snatch away.”1 Its usage is illustrated in the following references where the same verb occurs:
“The spirit of the Lord caught away Philip.” (Acts 8:39).
“The wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.” (John 10:12).
“No man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” (John 10:29).
What is meant by “the clouds”? Three possibilities exist. These are as follows:
The saints are caught away in literal clouds. Jesus was taken from the disciples’ gaze by a cloud. (Acts 1:9). He will return with the same literal clouds. See Rev. 1:7 cf. Dan. 7:13; Matt. 24:30.
The clouds refer to large numbers of saints. The Greek text does not contain the definite article. The passage reads, therefore: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught away in clouds” (i.e., clouds of saints). Support for this interpretation is found in Heb. 12:1 where a similar image is used: “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. . . ” (i.e., the faithful listed in Heb. 11). Saints are compared with the innumerable water droplets comprising a great cloud. Some have seen the further image of the saints being exhaled from the sea of nations by the powerful beams of the Sun of Righteousness.
The clouds are those of divine glory, indicating the Divine Presence. It is stated in Matt 24:30 that the Son of man will come “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”, but it is not certain that the great glory refers to the clouds of heaven. One disadvantage with this interpretation is that the divine cloud is invariably one cloud.2 The word “clouds” in 1 Thess. 4:17 is plural. It was the cloud which covered Mt. Sinai (Ex. 34:5) and guided Israel during the wilderness journeyings. (Ex. 13:21; 14:19). Similarly, it was the cloud of glory which filled the Tabernacle (Nu. 9:15,16) and the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 8:11).
Excellent study. If we don't ignore common sense then, we must come to the conclusion that, in the beginning, Genesis 1:1 *the heaven and earth were one place* since Scripture says, sin separates man from God and Adam had not sinned until Genesis 3:6. *We've been handed down a wrong interpretation of the Bible* from the beginning.
The Bible Project starts by disparaging "people's" misconceptions about heaven (e.g. that it is a city in the clouds, pearly gates, etc). However, there is a reason for this. The Bible itself describes the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven (Rev 21:2). Also, Rev 21:21 describes "the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass"
The Bible Project: "In the Old Testament, there is no concept of going up to that space (heaven). The point of the Elijah story is that it is so unique and unrepeatable that no one else will experience that"
I wonder why this is their conclusion.
Jesus, when challenged by the Sadducees about resurrection, basically told them that they do not understand Scripture (Old Testament), and that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive still (Matthew 22:23-46). I understand perhaps challenging the specifics on where people are residing after death (heaven or some other place), but the Bible Project clearly teaches that the Old Testament teaches that "humans go into the dirt after death", which seems to contradict Jesus' own understanding of the Old Testament.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” The Greek word translated “living” is a participle, and in this context, the participle is not defining a current state of being, but rather a state of being that has occurred or will occur at some point in time. In this case, the dead people are not “living” now, but because God is the God of the living, He is saying that the people will be alive in the future. In the future, at the resurrection of the dead, dead people will hear the voice of the Son of God and be resurrected in a physical body just like Christ had a physical body (John 5:25-29; Luke 24:39; 1 John 3:2; Phil. 3:21). Jesus used the example of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to prove that God would raise the dead because if those men were dead and gone forever, God would not say He was their God, He would say He had been their God.
The noted New Testament scholar, N. T. Wright, wrote about this record about Jesus and the Sadducees discussing resurrection, which occurs in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Concerning what Christ taught. Wright wrote, “People are easily confused here. I frequently hear ‘resurrection’ used to mean simply ‘life after death’; and since many imagine life after death taking place in a disembodied state called ‘heaven’ where (among other things) angels may be found, they understand a passage like this to be saying after death you will go to heaven, and be a disembodied spirit like an angel-and that will be resurrection. That is precisely what this passage, and the New Testament teaching about resurrection in general, does not mean. The whole point of the Jewish doctrine of resurrection was that it meant a new embodied life, a life that would be given at some future date…. Saying that the resurrected dead will be ‘like angels in heaven’ does not mean they will be like them in all respects, including disembodiment. They are like angels in this respect only: that they will not marry. This is Jesus’s first point: resurrection, which he affirms, will not simply reproduce every aspect of our present humanity. It will be a recognizable and reembodied human existence…. Second, Jesus finds a passage at the heart of the Pentateuch, acknowledged by the Sadducees as authoritative, which, he claims, demonstrates that the dead will indeed be raised. When God meets Moses at the burning bush, he introduces himself as Abraham’s God, Isaac’s God and Jacob’s God. If this is how God chooses to reveal himself, argues Jesus, it cannot be the case that the patriarchs are dead and gone for ever. This again can be misunderstood. Jesus is not simply saying that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still alive in the presence of God, and that their present afterlife is what is meant by ‘resurrection’. Everybody knew that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had not yet been raised from the dead. The point is precisely that they are ‘dead’ at present, but that since God desires to be known as their God he must be intending to raise them from death in the future. ‘Resurrection’, in other words, is not another, somewhat nicer, description of ‘being dead’. It is the reversal of death, the gift of a new body to enjoy life in God’s new world.”
Am still early in the video, at about 15:44, but I have some food for thought; when our Lord spoke of Himself He said that He came from above and in returning He ascended bodily, I believe there's significance to His words and ascension. Also, because the Bible is inspired (the Holy Spirit Himself authored it) Genesis can't simply be the thoughts of the author. If it is God speaking He must surely know what He is talking about. Finally, in God's conversation with Job or His questioning of Job 38:4 God Himself mentions and asks about the foundations of the earth, that last point is not as strong as the first two but I do believe the Bible's description of the cosmology of the world we live in, I really do.
JESUS CHRIST is the SON of GOD. What is the SON of GOD? Gen.1:26
1. SON of GOD means the IMAGE of GOD or the SON of LIGHT. Col.1:15 ; Phil.2:15 ; Heb.1:2-3 GOD is the FATHER of all Light beings. James.1:17
2. SON of GOD means the LIKENESS of GOD or the SON of the Resurrection. Lk.20:35-38 ; 1Cor.15:45-49 GOD is the FATHER of all spirits. Heb.12:9 JESUS was declared the SON of GOD (LIKENESS of GOD) by the Resurrection of the dead. Rom.1:4 HE was described as the Life giving SPIRIT. 2Cor.3:17
JESUS was the only MAN born as the SON of GOD and for this reason HE was called 'the only Begotten SON of GOD'. Lk,1:31-35 ; Jn.1:14, 18
JESUS was the CHRIST, the Promised MAN sent by GOD to replace Adam as the Firstborn SON. For this reason HE must face Sin, Death, and the World, and overcome. All true followers of JESUS must follow after HIM and like HIM become overcomers.
We are looking forward to the Day of the LORD which shall usher in the New Heavens and the New Earth. 2Pet.3:10-13 The shaking of the Heavens and the earth may have begun. Heb.12:25-29 The purpose is to remove all wickedness from the Heavens and from the earth. Rev.6:12-17 ; Isa.34:2-5 ; 27:1 ; Malachi.4:1-3 ; 2Thes.1:7-10
@@ngdavid3925 I believe Jesus was in the beginning with God and is God. It's a mystery but true according to scripture, in 1 Timothy 3:16 we learn that without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; God was manifest in the flesh... In the book of Philippians 2:6 we see that Christ is in the form of God. So yes, Jesus is the Son Of God, but that word has more meaning than what men understand yet. As the image of God He is the exact representation of our God, remember God is a Spirit and He is invisible, so when the Word was made flesh (John 1:14) the invisible God was made visible, now by looking at our Lord Jesus Christ we could know how God is like, how He acts, how He thinks etc. He is the revelation of our invisible God. It is by faith therefore in this Jesus the Lord and Christ (trusting Him for forgiveness by His death on our behalf, and our life both for now and eternity) that we are forgiven, justified and adopted by God the Father and have a real and living relationship forever with God, with the Father as our Father (John 20:17), Christ the Son as our eldest brother in this new family (Hebrews 2:11) and the Holy Spirit in us (Galatians 4:6).
(All scripture references from KJV)
@@michaelmuthuri7471
Yes, JESUS CHRIST, the SON of GOD is a Mystery, but that does not mean it cannot be known or understood, but rather it simply means 'hidden truth'. Paul was given the Revelation of this Mystery, and he testified that chosen apostles and prophets too received the Revelation. Eph.3:1-5 Unfortunately, many who regarded themselves to be apostles and prophets know next to nothing concerning the Mystery of JESUS CHRIST.
Instead of seeing the pure version of the knowledge of the SON of GOD being imparted in the churches, we have the adulterated and polluted version which does not benefit the churches. Paul wrote to the Ephesians these words:
'Till we all come in the unity of the Faith, and of the Knowledge of the SON of GOD, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the Fullness of CHRIST. Eph.4:13
To the Philippians Paul wrote:
Yes, doubtless, I count all things loss for the excellency of the Knowledge of CHRIST JESUS, my LORD, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, that I may win CHRIST. Phil.3:8
The Knowledge of the SON of GOD JESUS CHRIST, is the needed input for the church to reach spiritual maturity and the stature of the fullness of CHRIST.
@@ngdavid3925 All true. So I'm confused, do you agree that Christ is indeed God with us? Or does your understanding of Him differ in anyway from anything I've stated?
@@michaelmuthuri7471
The understanding and knowledge of the SON of GOD in the churches is at children's level. The statement that 'JESUS is GOD' is true, but having the right understanding based on the Holy scriptures is necessary.
We should not accept any concept that is not stated in the bible, such as 'the GODHEAD is made up of 3 Persons', which is false. The testimony of the prophets and apostles declared that the GODHEAD is one, the FATHER. Isa.64:8 ; Mal.2:10 ; 1Cor.8:6 ; Eph.4:6
The LORD JESUS declared that the GOD of heaven and earth was and is HIS FATHER. Matt.11:25-27 The SON has revealed HIMSELF to the apostles and to Paul. Act.9:20 Eph.3:1-4 All that which Paul has written concerning JESUS CHRIST the SON of GOD, must be rightly understood and balanced with all other scriptures. Paul presented JESUS as the MAN who should replace Adam as promised by the FATHER, who was and is the IMAGE of GOD at birth, and who was and is the LIKENESS of GOD at the Resurrection. 1Cor.15:20-24, 45-49
So the Old Testament is referring to heaven as sky and/or temple, both in an abstract fashion and a literal fashion, depending where in the OT you read? Is that the short of it?
Without listening to the whole video yet, I think of heavens as firmament having different levels. Thoughts?
I have a question. Where do angels reside? If my understanding is not crazy to say that they live in a seperate space, and it's not earth. So as you discribed that at some point the earth and heaven will merge. At such time, if l understand you correctly, we the redeemed people will live together with the roghteous angels together in one space. Am l understanding you correctly? Appreciate a reply if possible. Anyone, please.
❤🎉wow Hallelujah
Please pray for my dog guys. She is sick. I don’t know what to do but ask for prayers.
I prayed, but I would suggest reading the Book of Job if things don’t work out.
@@rclark777 Thank you for your prayer mate. She is getting better.
Ok. Take her to the vet if she needs it. At least keep her as comfortable as she can be. Pain meds can help.
Then…..
-What do we do with the waters that God separated in creation, above and below? No, those waters are not the ones that fall during the regular rains. It was the waters that flood the earth during the Noahs Flood - "the windows of heaven were opened and the fountains of the deep burst forth."
-What do we do with the stars that we always see the same ones and the trails that they form?
-I don't understand how the Heaven joins an earth that is spinning in itself + throughout the universe. -And no, this is not the way of those writers to see things because they had no way of finding out, on the contrary, they had direct communication with the Creator so I assume they had better information than us.
Thinking this is a serious mistake that undermines the credibility of the Bible.
I have a different opinion with your way of thinking, but I respect you a lot and I'm still a fan of all your videos! God Blessed!
Interesting.
Have you got an explanation for what Paul said to the Philippians 3:14 🕊
I am curious about the use of heaven there too.
@@minutesock9649
Humm yeah 🕊
Can't wait till they discover that Hebrew Cosmology is true.
Could the vision paul had had been the road to damascus vision?
You're wrong the Bible talks about heaven as being the atmosphere around the Earth, space as we know it in the universe, and a third place referring to that place, outside of our universe, where God lives.
What about when God lived among the Israelites after their release from Egypt? In mt. Sinai - where He gave Moses the 10 commandments? Isn’t that an example of Heaven meeting Earth?
Think about Jacob's dream, what was their understanding about dreams even, did he go somewhere in them, or was their perception that the dream space occurred at their location. As the shrine/temple suggests. It's the same for our/my heaven understanding. I have always thought that modern people think of heaven as in a different dimension, and not bc man has been to space. So when would that transition have occurred, or did it ever occur or even need to, if their mentality was correctly "abstract" in another dimension? We don't know what their spiritual understanding "looked like" to them. Even as the world may not have looked like the flat and dome that you described. Bc I don't think that most of us think about their understanding that way. I know that I didn't, or that the Genesis account would draw that picture, either. It's the Bible that speaks of the foundations of the Earth and of the four winds. Even as those winds are seen as compass directions, could not the corners also have been understood by some, as the same. Even if some sailors could not grasp the flat to round visual, that they always observed on the waters...Even as I have always seen Genesis in spacial relation, why would they not? Even as we can see more depth in the upper "heaven" at night, why wouldn't they? It seems to me that modern thinking about them is more primitive than they might have been....But back to the dream, Jacob and his father and their people were trying to understand this new God, and just what and where his communication was about. But are there hot-spots of better places where God is on earth? I am saying no, bc I've encountered him, the supernatural and even speech, and it wasn't the location but what he did, it's always about Him...It was about location initially, the mountain, shrine, temple and then it moved to the heart and person, salvation. Even as the Spirit was external and became internally, it wasn't about location when it was external; or our location now...So, it's not the.altars that Abram built, or the shrine/temple built where Jacob dreamt, or anyone's dream location, or a highway re: Jesus, but JESUS himself in us, as God, the overlap of heaven on earth. Now wrestle with that. (And what is it that both God and Solomon were really speaking about? The Spirit of God, as he was not flesh, until Jesus, who said that he was the ramp, even with the cross. And it is his Spirit within us. It has all been about Him in us, The Kingdom of Heaven) Praise Him!
Angels are cosmic intelligences. You could call them patterns of being. They are the order in which the world exists. People in the comments are trying to look at everything through a modern materialistic lense and thats not how ancient people viewed the world. Jonathan pageau and John Vervaeke have been having Great talks on this subject and similar ones.
Some people think when the Bible says the four corners of the Earth that means the Earth is flat and square with four corners
I'm at 7:10 and I'm done listening. I thought I might learn something here. But you're viewing Genesis 1 as having originated from the mind of Man and his perceptions.
I happen to believe something called the tablet theory. I was critical of it (as I am with anything I've never heard of) until it answered questions I had struggled with since I was young, and answered them quite well, and without any discernible flaws.
This theory places God himself as the actual author of the original physical text of Genesis 1. As such, the heavens were not some perception in the mind of a human, in Genesis 1, but rather an accurate assessment of what they actually are.
Also, I have done a deep dive into Genesis 1, a very very deep dive. And most importantly, I assumed that it was written, not just by God himself, but, most importantly, when no other text existed. In other words, the only allowable context for Genesis 1 is Genesis 1 itself. I did not allow any outside ideas to influence my perceptions of what is already there. And what I found in the first 4 days of creation blew me away. I had never heard anyone teach those things, ever.
Here, I'll share just a few of those things. Long story short, with a focus on the current topic, in verse 1, the heavens and the earth, IN VERSE ONE, was a reference to nothing more than a big ball of pure water, as becomes clear in verse 2. However, on day 1, there was no separation between anything. It's all together in a single mass and it's nothing but pure water, until the light is called forth (which transforms the pure water into all the elements that exist today, though it does not say how). None of it is separated until day 2. And on day 2, God called for the expanse which divided all the heavenly bodies from each other. In the call for this expanse, God did not say above or below. But after the expanse began, God shifted his focus closer to his goal (us), the surface of this planet, from where everything else is above. Once he made that shift in his focus, the waters below was a reference to our planet, from which the dry land later emerged on day 3, which is what God called earth (specifically the dry land, not the planet). The waters above made reference to all heavenly bodies above our planet. The heavens were the expanse, on day 2, which includes our skies, outer space, and any other place where any expanse divided any objects from one another, including other dimensions, even the dimensions where the angels dwell (which are outside our 3 dimensions). The sun, moon, and stars were not visible until day 4, which is when God caused them to come into view, specifically so they could serve the purpose which God stated for them (signs, seasons, etc) when he brought them into view of our planet. A sloppy reading of the text leaves the reader thinking day 4 is when God created the sun, moon, and stars. But a mindful reading makes it clear that that is when they became visible, but more specifically when they were assigned their purpose. And the beginning of their purpose is what the sloppy reader fails to notice. Before this statement, they did not have that purpose. This is when that purpose began, even thought these objects did exist before this purpose was assigned. It is the purpose which began here, not the objects. And yet, the objects were not visible until day 4, which is quite provocative (and fits with the white hole theory, by Dr Russell Humphreys).
(This only makes sense if, before day 4, our galaxy was still inside a black hole {an idea from outside the text but fitting what is in the text} before the expanse pulled it out on day 4. The fabric of space is able to move faster than light, much much faster. The original mass, all in one place, would have generated a black hole, inside of which time would run very slowly and light could not travel in a straight line. In fact every photon would exist in multiple places simultaneously. Fun quantum stuff. With the loss of tremendous amounts of mass, multiple galaxies at at time, the event horizon would actually jump across very quickly. The spaghetti effect would not have a chance to do anything, for anyone wanting to object on those grounds. In fact the reduction of the spaghetti effect, especially if graduated, for each galaxy, could even explain the cosmic web we see. This explanation is overly simplified, leaving out magnitudes of details. But I digress.)
And this is why I cringe at your weak assessment of the heavens in Genesis 1, as if they originated in the minds of mere humans.
And even if I'm wrong about the tablet theory, God still inspired godly men to write scripture, accurately, as in never wrong, and never false. The Bible never contradicts any fact that is known (nor any fact that is not yet known).
On second thought, I will go ahead and listen to the rest of this video, just to see if you come around to some form of an inspired view of scripture. But if not, I won't be listening to any more of your flawed naturalistic musings.
Having now listened to the rest of this video, I am left thinking that you view scripture as merely writing that came from the limited thoughts of ancient less informed Man, and that you know better than they do about some of the things they said. Since you do not view the scriptures as being inerrant and from God, then I cannot trust your views that are based on the foundation of your own knowledge which you believe supercedes what is written in scripture. You have elevated your own ideas above what scripture says. And I'm not interested.
Mackie and Collins absolutely consider scripture to be inspired and authoritative. They just believe that it is wrong to completely ignore humanity’s role in bringing scripture together.
Throughout the Bible God ALWAYS works WITH people and their limitations, including by coming down as Jesus. The Bible is no different. It is a collaborative work between the inspiration of God and the writing styles and methods of Man.
Please look more into what Tim Mackie says about scripture. Also, very very few scholars accept this “Golden Tablets” theory. As a linguist I can tell you for sure that even the mere translation of biblical texts disproves it, because translation cannot capture the cultural or historical meaning that the original authors would have had.
@@ilz_y , I have never heard it called the "Golden tablets" theory. It is possible that you may be thinking of something else. Just to be clear, the tablet theory that I mentioned is also called the Wiseman theory. Either way, you make a claim that "very very few scholars accept" it. That is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Experts can be wrong, even a majority of them. But in regard to your suggestion that I look further into what these guys say, it won't negate what they said in this video. They claim here to know more than those who wrote scripture, and further claim that fallible ideas of Man were incorporated into scripture, a claim which you now affirm. But that makes scripture fallible, and God as well. However, the things which these guys, in this video, think they know better, are in fact fallible ideas that they, in their arrogance, claim to know better than the human authors who wrote under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Even though God does indeed work with flawed humans, his scriptures, in the original autographs, do not contain errors. Neither does scripture contradict any known fact. Assumed facts, on the other hand, there is an abundance of those that contradict scripture. But not even one fact that is known to be a fact contradicts scripture. And the guys in this video have taken for granted that some assumed facts are actual facts, and then assumed that man's fallible ides made it into scripture. But the reverse is true. Man's fallible ideas, in the form of assumed facts, have succeeded in polluting their view of scripture.
In NYC every singular noun especially names is plural lol😂
Instead of looking for words always plural form, look for nouns that are always in singular form even when plural? Does that make sense. Like deer and deer… in ref to sky in Hebrew.
The First Heaven: form the air of the lower atmosphere on the lowest and deepest points of the land surface and the sea level, to the higher orbit of the Moon, where there's most of celestial and climatic events relevant to us - rain, rainbows, aurora, etc.;
The Second Heaven: from the Lunopause (area of orbit and influence of the Moon) to the ends of the Solar System, where the planets, the Sun, and a great mass of the celestial waters (in form of ice from Kuiper's Belt to Oort's Cloud) and "rocks of the firmament" (comets and asteroids) are;
The Third Heaven: the greatest and largest of all, encompasses all the space between our planetary system and the Final Borders of this Universe, beyond the visible stars, and all known stars really;
The Fourth Heaven, or the Empyrean: from the limits of this Realm or Universe to the beginnings of the primeval "sea" of Chaos, in this one there's other realms adjacent to our Universe, it's where God dwells;
The Void: there's nothing but a quantum flow of Chaos in there, a dark and lightless Primeval Ocean of potentiality, the whole of Cosmos down and back from there.
You two are in cahoots in this Bible thing.
Tents band needs a UA-cam channel
Thank you I figure out my house is heaven.
The meek shall inherit the earth
The earth shall be filled with His glory
Everything we see now is a corrupted shadow or type of the true. That is why Solomon said, in the Book of Ecclesiastes, that everything under the sun is vanity and Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you. The true heaven and earth in one place. The true heaven is a spiritual mind, where God dwells within man. The corrupted heaven is where the sun and moon have a tabernacle and God dwells separated from man beyond the stars.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -John 14:6
Isn't the blue thing blue of water I believe: can the fermament be clear and the water above it make it blue.. As recorded in Gen 1'7?
The Bible is using figurative language ripped from other ancient texts so that the Hebrews could understand the concept of a sky.
@@rclark777 am not sure if that help my question.
148 Praise[a] the Lord!
Praise the Lord from the heavens;
Praise Him in the heights!
2
Praise Him, all His angels;
Praise Him, all His hosts!
3
Praise Him, sun and moon;
Praise Him, all you stars of light!
4
Praise Him, you heavens of heavens,
And you waters above the heavens!
"And you waters above the heavens! "
@@soundlysbananacam6182 living waters, flowing out of the temple...
I like to think of "above" as higher than.... In status, like a president is higher than a vice president, like Willie Nelson is higher than Snoop Dogg... And of course, God is the most high
God Space and Human Space Overlapping is the idea actually.
Let’s gooooooooo’
Spiritual realm Fathers Heaven . Thee Holy Father says what he means and he means what he says !
You alright?
@@rclark777 I think he's right. Jesus said My Kingdom is not of this world." Meaning God's Kingdom is in the spiritual realm, unseen by human eyes far above the stars and universe. That's how I perceive it anyway.
Good point. We think in physical so often it is difficult to see spiritual. A different realm
When I heard friendly skies, I thought of Marvin Gaye
stars are angels as well