I'm not sure I see this having a huge effect. I know a couple of guys in different states that own stores and of course they have gotten amazing, rare pieces in. They follow one rule pretty. They don't sell online. They will wait longer to sell local. Not only because they want to offer things to their customers first, but the both say it's important to keep grails in the area because they find their way back to you. If that person dies or needs to trade for something bigger...those albums usually end up back at YOUR shop. Once you send it 1/2 across the country you will probably never see it again. In a way, I don't see this as being much different. 1. I LOVE the idea of a 10 pt grading system. I have always felt the current system, such as on Discogs, has done NOTHING to address the extreme amount of distance that can take place between a NM and VG+ record. For me, in my personal data base, I often use Sealed/Mint, NM, NM-, EX+, EX, EX-, VG++, VG+. So I'm all for a more comprehensive 10 pt system. Honestly I see "VG+" listed on an album for sale and I have NO CLUE what that even means!. Is it a hair away from NM or a hair away from VG. That is a drastic difference!! 2. I think the difference in other collectables like baseball cards, comics, and others that use this grading style is that those probably don't have as many people as a sample size. In other words music and vinyl touches most people from all different backgrounds and stages of life. Music is not as "specialized" of an enjoyment unlike comics or baseball cards. I work at a local record store and we consistently have significant pieces on our "wow" wall. A vast majority of them don't move fast or often, but what keeps the doors open and lights one?....VG+ $14 copies of Billy Joel The Stanger. VG+ $14 copies of Huey Lewis and News Sports. God forbid we get a $30 EX copy of Duran Duran Rio in. Our customers will literally fight over it lol. The type of records that keep our doors open will probably never see this effect because the bread and butter pieces are almost never "collectables". 3. We are already in this situation now where many of the records that probably would go into this grading system/storage are probably records people would label as "Grails' in their collection. Even now grails don't move often and fast at all. In all probability no one else is going to get their hands on most people's grails unless that person gets in a really hard jam for money or they die. That is how most grails move between collectors I think. For example, I have a very, very clean EX- Led Zeppelin II RL. It's sitting in my grail box. That album does not have any more or less chance moving unless I pass away or need money for life saving operations. I just don't see that anyone who would get record graded and sealed would ever get rid of it even if this service was not around. Again, first time I hearing about it so of course all these comments are off the cuff with very little insight. :) Just yapping about records :)
Thanks so much for weighing in on this topic, and for your thoughtful comments! I completely agree with you about the grading scale. Opening it up to a more granular system should help mitigate problems inherent in the dramatic variation of the current system. You make some very interesting points about vinyl's relationship to other collectables, buyer's habits, etc, to draw conclusions about how far encapsulating vinyl will go. I definitely see a world where you're right, and it doesn't impact the community very much at all. Playing devil's advocate for a moment, collectors in other communities probably said the same thing. Grading video games is still new enough that a lot of people in the community still resist it, but graded comics and cards have been around long enough that it's just an acceptable part of the hobby now. On the one hand, I think time is a factor. As soon as slabbed records show up on Pawn Stars, or once enough of them make their way into the marketplace, and there are some record-breaking sales (no pun intended), I'm afraid it will be "game on". It seems to me that it's usually people that aren't interested in the hobby, but rather the investment potential, that jump in first. On the other hand, maybe vinyl is different, and it won't get enough traction early on for the grading companies to remain interested. Maybe it takes 20 years and a pandemic for these things to really take off! Maybe they're attempting to create a market that no one is asking for. I just feel like this is what happened with other collectibles that now have a massively thriving graded community. I hope you're right. The people that stand to benefit most from this are the grading companies, auction sites, and high rolling investors. Thanks again for the fantastic comments! Don't be a stranger!
Doesn't suprise me, but it is patently ridiculous...to encapsulate something that is meant to be heard, never to be heard again? Soulless. Why would a collector that actually loves the music, want something he can't ever hear. There will be people that do it, like other collectables, for the buck but not for the love of music.
I get it with rare records. For me, I don't really care one way or another. Having collected about 6,000 records when they were cheap, I have more than enough to enjoy the rest of my lifetime.
Hole punches and corners cut should be considered a plus in the grading system in many ways. I bet in the future the grading system will be updated and encapsulated albums will need to be regraded under new standards that allow them to reach 8/9 much easier than these current rules. Great video
Records are made to be heard not seen. This is so stupid. Vinyl is already getting too expensive. This and also bad pressings is going to ruin this industry. This is not sustainable.
This is not only extremely disappointing, it's absolutely INSANE! I just found out about this at a local record show, where the vendor had a few slabbed records - a couple of them weren't even what I would call "collectible" - you're going to see people start doing this in hopes of turning a quick buck - and only the slabbing companies will be the winners. The company the vendor was representing only slabbed sealed records - and the vendor said he had sealed records to be slabbed and a backup copy for listening purposes -wow.
I hear you on that. I’m in no hurry to see what happens if the ball really gets rolling on this. I’ve softened a little on the rare and sealed items that are truly preservable candidates. But it’s going to be a weird world if people just start grading everything in order to increase its value.
Inevitable considering how disconnected new vinyl record collectors are to the hobby. This is not a dig at the newer generation getting into the hobby, but more a comment on how the newer record buying public see vinyl records. Given that more and more of the record buying public are going to have grown up with streaming music as the default main way of consuming music, the more records will be scene as objects of alternative music and/or fan art or merchandise. Having grown up through most of the main popular media iterations (8 track, cassettes, cds, napster, streaming) I wouldn't be surprised that this music will go through other changes as well. Great video on a interesting topic - keep up the good work Jason. ✌
Yep, you pretty much hit it on the head. As you say, it's not really good or bad, it's just the way it goes. Vinyl was hanging by a thread for decades until the recent renaissance. It will be interesting to see what the future holds. Thanks for the comment and the kind words!
Hey Jason, just found your channel. I started rebuilding my vinyl collection about 4 years ago and I’m within ~200 albums or so of running out of room. I have a collection of vinyl but I’m not a “collector”. I actually listen to the albums I buy and I don’t own multiple copies. I really like your primer episodes for Jazz albums to start a collection with. I also find this grading and slabbing farce deeply offensive. The hobby of vinyl collecting has officially jumped the shark! Hope everyone’s happy 🤪 You’re obviously not a collector only, but a music lover and I appreciate that. Thanks for exposing this wankery. I’m pretty cynical though about the future of this hobby.
Thanks so much for your comment, and the nice words! Yeah, I think the people that have the most to gain from this, if it takes off, are the grading companies, auction houses, and high-rolling investors. It has almost nothing to do with the love of music. And if it does take off, it will be interesting to see how much of an impact it has on those of us that love listening to records. I think the thing to watch out for are the individuals that decide this is a great way to make some money flipping records. If enough get on board then we could see this really snowball.
Doesn't Surprise Me at all. Capitalism at its finest. Baseball Cards, Bernie Babies they all crashed in value after going for huge money. Records will crash in value one day also I think. Great Video!!!!
Yeah, it was bound to catch up with vinyl at some point. Especially since its recent surge in popularity. Time will tell how this all unfolds. Thanks for watching and for the nice words!
@@spinzvinyl two more questions how much to grade and which company do you prefer i know in sports cards it is psa ps also the comic grading company cgc now grades magazines lol
@@tomharrison6607 Since recording this video AAGS and VMG have merged. There are other companies grading vinyl but it's so new I don't know if there is a clear leader yet. Here is the VMG page which includes their pricing: vmgvinyl.com/services/
That method of grading will hurt the vinyl collector. Just like it damaged the Comic book and Baseball card hobby. I've collected all three and vinyl for 5 decades. I have never purchased a used record. Just saying
My friend, your first line in this was a little extreme right? Haha, “encapsulate your vinyls now so future gens don’t have any vinyls left to listen to” and I just want to say, and you know this, you have records no one has any business putting a needle to, and if they need to they can listen to a reissue while simply enjoying looking at the original; right!?! Id rather have one encapsulated pet sounds first press in mint and one reissue to listen to rather than listen to the former. Right!?
Haha! That first line is absolutely meant to grab attention, but also reflects the opinions of some people. I agree with your point, I definitely think there is a use case for this service. In a way this series is meant to prepare people for the inevitable. It can go in any number of ways from here. And while I believe there is a benefit to preserving some records, there's also the other side of it, which is the collectability of slabbed vinyl. People might have to get realistic about this hobby becoming more and more like the comic book, trading card, (et al) hobbies. Some people are convinced that won't happen. We'll have to wait and see. Thanks so much for your comments, my friend!!!
@alternateunreleasedshellac505 they do not offer shellac grading and encapsulation as of yet, but it is coming. They will be making the cases out of stronger material. Shellac actually seems like the best use case for this service!
@@spinzvinyl That actually makes a lot of sense given the poor durability of the material. Thanks for your insight. 78s are pretty rare, compared to vinyl records. Because most of the master discs were destroyed during the 1950s. No analog repressing of em are possible.
@alternateunreleasedshellac505 I gotcha. Yeah, that’s unfortunate. I have some LPs that were mastered from 78s because there was no other source, and of course the sound quality isn’t great. I can see encapsulating 78s just from a preservation stand point. You would know better than I, is there a big shellac listening community, or is it more of a collector thing?
@veedub95 I watched your RSD video. Great haul! Some fantastic records there! I snagged the Dolphy, Charlie Parker, and Bill Evans records. Don’t be a stranger! 👍
I'm not sure I see this having a huge effect. I know a couple of guys in different states that own stores and of course they have gotten amazing, rare pieces in. They follow one rule pretty. They don't sell online. They will wait longer to sell local. Not only because they want to offer things to their customers first, but the both say it's important to keep grails in the area because they find their way back to you. If that person dies or needs to trade for something bigger...those albums usually end up back at YOUR shop. Once you send it 1/2 across the country you will probably never see it again. In a way, I don't see this as being much different.
1. I LOVE the idea of a 10 pt grading system. I have always felt the current system, such as on Discogs, has done NOTHING to address the extreme amount of distance that can take place between a NM and VG+ record. For me, in my personal data base, I often use Sealed/Mint, NM, NM-, EX+, EX, EX-, VG++, VG+. So I'm all for a more comprehensive 10 pt system. Honestly I see "VG+" listed on an album for sale and I have NO CLUE what that even means!. Is it a hair away from NM or a hair away from VG. That is a drastic difference!!
2. I think the difference in other collectables like baseball cards, comics, and others that use this grading style is that those probably don't have as many people as a sample size. In other words music and vinyl touches most people from all different backgrounds and stages of life. Music is not as "specialized" of an enjoyment unlike comics or baseball cards. I work at a local record store and we consistently have significant pieces on our "wow" wall. A vast majority of them don't move fast or often, but what keeps the doors open and lights one?....VG+ $14 copies of Billy Joel The Stanger. VG+ $14 copies of Huey Lewis and News Sports. God forbid we get a $30 EX copy of Duran Duran Rio in. Our customers will literally fight over it lol. The type of records that keep our doors open will probably never see this effect because the bread and butter pieces are almost never "collectables".
3. We are already in this situation now where many of the records that probably would go into this grading system/storage are probably records people would label as "Grails' in their collection. Even now grails don't move often and fast at all. In all probability no one else is going to get their hands on most people's grails unless that person gets in a really hard jam for money or they die. That is how most grails move between collectors I think. For example, I have a very, very clean EX- Led Zeppelin II RL. It's sitting in my grail box. That album does not have any more or less chance moving unless I pass away or need money for life saving operations. I just don't see that anyone who would get record graded and sealed would ever get rid of it even if this service was not around.
Again, first time I hearing about it so of course all these comments are off the cuff with very little insight. :) Just yapping about records :)
Thanks so much for weighing in on this topic, and for your thoughtful comments!
I completely agree with you about the grading scale. Opening it up to a more granular system should help mitigate problems inherent in the dramatic variation of the current system.
You make some very interesting points about vinyl's relationship to other collectables, buyer's habits, etc, to draw conclusions about how far encapsulating vinyl will go. I definitely see a world where you're right, and it doesn't impact the community very much at all.
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, collectors in other communities probably said the same thing. Grading video games is still new enough that a lot of people in the community still resist it, but graded comics and cards have been around long enough that it's just an acceptable part of the hobby now.
On the one hand, I think time is a factor. As soon as slabbed records show up on Pawn Stars, or once enough of them make their way into the marketplace, and there are some record-breaking sales (no pun intended), I'm afraid it will be "game on". It seems to me that it's usually people that aren't interested in the hobby, but rather the investment potential, that jump in first.
On the other hand, maybe vinyl is different, and it won't get enough traction early on for the grading companies to remain interested.
Maybe it takes 20 years and a pandemic for these things to really take off! Maybe they're attempting to create a market that no one is asking for. I just feel like this is what happened with other collectibles that now have a massively thriving graded community.
I hope you're right. The people that stand to benefit most from this are the grading companies, auction sites, and high rolling investors.
Thanks again for the fantastic comments! Don't be a stranger!
Somehow this encapsulating idea feels a lot like a modern day version of a 17th century Dutch Tulip bulb.
I had to look up “tulipmania”, but you could be right. There’s been a few of those in recent years.
Doesn't suprise me, but it is patently ridiculous...to encapsulate something that is meant to be heard, never to be heard again? Soulless. Why would a collector that actually loves the music, want something he can't ever hear. There will be people that do it, like other collectables, for the buck but not for the love of music.
Well done video on this topic! Thanks
I appreciate the nice words! Thanks for watching!
I get it with rare records. For me, I don't really care one way or another. Having collected about 6,000 records when they were cheap, I have more than enough to enjoy the rest of my lifetime.
Hole punches and corners cut should be considered a plus in the grading system in many ways. I bet in the future the grading system will be updated and encapsulated albums will need to be regraded under new standards that allow them to reach 8/9 much easier than these current rules. Great video
That’s a great point! I feel like these first few batches are going to be way off from future standards.
Records are made to be heard not seen. This is so stupid. Vinyl is already getting too expensive. This and also bad pressings is going to ruin this industry. This is not sustainable.
This is not only extremely disappointing, it's absolutely INSANE! I just found out about this at a local record show, where the vendor had a few slabbed records - a couple of them weren't even what I would call "collectible" - you're going to see people start doing this in hopes of turning a quick buck - and only the slabbing companies will be the winners. The company the vendor was representing only slabbed sealed records - and the vendor said he had sealed records to be slabbed and a backup copy for listening purposes -wow.
I hear you on that. I’m in no hurry to see what happens if the ball really gets rolling on this. I’ve softened a little on the rare and sealed items that are truly preservable candidates. But it’s going to be a weird world if people just start grading everything in order to increase its value.
Inevitable considering how disconnected new vinyl record collectors are to the hobby. This is not a dig at the newer generation getting into the hobby, but more a comment on how the newer record buying public see vinyl records. Given that more and more of the record buying public are going to have grown up with streaming music as the default main way of consuming music, the more records will be scene as objects of alternative music and/or fan art or merchandise. Having grown up through most of the main popular media iterations (8 track, cassettes, cds, napster, streaming) I wouldn't be surprised that this music will go through other changes as well. Great video on a interesting topic - keep up the good work Jason. ✌
Yep, you pretty much hit it on the head. As you say, it's not really good or bad, it's just the way it goes. Vinyl was hanging by a thread for decades until the recent renaissance. It will be interesting to see what the future holds. Thanks for the comment and the kind words!
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch
I own that one… it’s a gem
Very nice! I agree that it’s a gem. Dolphy is one of my favorite artists.
Hey Jason, just found your channel. I started rebuilding my vinyl collection about 4 years ago and I’m within ~200 albums or so of running out of room. I have a collection of vinyl but I’m not a “collector”. I actually listen to the albums I buy and I don’t own multiple copies. I really like your primer episodes for Jazz albums to start a collection with. I also find this grading and slabbing farce deeply offensive. The hobby of vinyl collecting has officially jumped the shark! Hope everyone’s happy 🤪 You’re obviously not a collector only, but a music lover and I appreciate that. Thanks for exposing this wankery. I’m pretty cynical though about the future of this hobby.
Thanks so much for your comment, and the nice words! Yeah, I think the people that have the most to gain from this, if it takes off, are the grading companies, auction houses, and high-rolling investors. It has almost nothing to do with the love of music. And if it does take off, it will be interesting to see how much of an impact it has on those of us that love listening to records. I think the thing to watch out for are the individuals that decide this is a great way to make some money flipping records. If enough get on board then we could see this really snowball.
This scares me. I fear change 😂
Haha! Yeah, me too!
I do not support this way of collecting. I'm never gonna own a vinyl inside two slabs that can never be played. But everyone for them selves...
True talk
Doesn't Surprise Me at all. Capitalism at its finest. Baseball Cards, Bernie Babies they all crashed in value after going for huge money. Records will crash in value one day also I think. Great Video!!!!
Yeah, it was bound to catch up with vinyl at some point. Especially since its recent surge in popularity. Time will tell how this all unfolds. Thanks for watching and for the nice words!
I have recently seen that the slabbing of VHS movies is also becoming a "thing".
Oh really? Yeah, I think we’re to the point where grading companies will happily grade and slab anything slabbable!
do they grade the singles ie the smaller records with a song on each side
They currently only grade 12" records, but are planning to add 7" and 10" in 2024.
@@spinzvinyl two more questions how much to grade and which company do you prefer i know in sports cards it is psa ps also the comic grading company cgc now grades magazines lol
@@tomharrison6607 Since recording this video AAGS and VMG have merged. There are other companies grading vinyl but it's so new I don't know if there is a clear leader yet. Here is the VMG page which includes their pricing: vmgvinyl.com/services/
@@spinzvinyl thanks for all of your help
That method of grading will hurt the vinyl collector. Just like it damaged the Comic book and Baseball card hobby. I've collected all three and vinyl for 5 decades. I have never purchased a used record. Just saying
My friend, your first line in this was a little extreme right? Haha, “encapsulate your vinyls now so future gens don’t have any vinyls left to listen to” and I just want to say, and you know this, you have records no one has any business putting a needle to, and if they need to they can listen to a reissue while simply enjoying looking at the original; right!?! Id rather have one encapsulated pet sounds first press in mint and one reissue to listen to rather than listen to the former. Right!?
Haha! That first line is absolutely meant to grab attention, but also reflects the opinions of some people. I agree with your point, I definitely think there is a use case for this service. In a way this series is meant to prepare people for the inevitable. It can go in any number of ways from here. And while I believe there is a benefit to preserving some records, there's also the other side of it, which is the collectability of slabbed vinyl. People might have to get realistic about this hobby becoming more and more like the comic book, trading card, (et al) hobbies. Some people are convinced that won't happen. We'll have to wait and see. Thanks so much for your comments, my friend!!!
@@spinzvinyl yea I think the main thing will be a new class of record collectors in the form of just rich investors
Anything going to happen to shellac recordings?
Great question. I’ll work on getting an answer. 👍
@alternateunreleasedshellac505 they do not offer shellac grading and encapsulation as of yet, but it is coming. They will be making the cases out of stronger material. Shellac actually seems like the best use case for this service!
@@spinzvinyl That actually makes a lot of sense given the poor durability of the material. Thanks for your insight. 78s are pretty rare, compared to vinyl records. Because most of the master discs were destroyed during the 1950s. No analog repressing of em are possible.
@alternateunreleasedshellac505 I gotcha. Yeah, that’s unfortunate. I have some LPs that were mastered from 78s because there was no other source, and of course the sound quality isn’t great. I can see encapsulating 78s just from a preservation stand point. You would know better than I, is there a big shellac listening community, or is it more of a collector thing?
@@spinzvinyl I don't believe there is a community, but I guess it's more of an archival or collecting kind of thing.
Sad future
Money grab.
Thumbs way down to this service!👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾
@veedub95 I watched your RSD video. Great haul! Some fantastic records there! I snagged the Dolphy, Charlie Parker, and Bill Evans records. Don’t be a stranger! 👍