Thank you Britain for still producing and never changing the standards for the SAS - Delta and SAS from personal observation and others view, are the most professional! By far compared to others 🇺🇸🇬🇧🤙🏻
Melvin made an interesting point that David didn't really followup on. American Tier-1 units such as Delta and DEVGRU are very specialized in the counter-terrorism and hostage rescue roles while the SAS has to maintain proficiency in conducting missions that are the provice of "white" SOF such as the Green Berets, Navy SEALs,and MARSOC Raiders in the US military. The UKSF maintains strong relations with JSOC but they also maintain relations with the wider SOCOM community because the SAS/SBS could just as easily find themselves working alongside Green Berets,SEALs, or MARSOC as they would with Delta and DEVGRU.
Not entirely true. Delta may specialize in CT and and HR, but they still expected to remain proficient to execute any mission required by the NSC. Most of their first missions conducted by Delta in 80s were UW and Foreign internal defense. While core CT skills are most certainly covered during OTC- trade craft, CQB, est, allegedly, post completion operators still go through various schools that 'white SOF' specialize in. From long range special recon to mountain warfare. It helps a lot that more than 90% of them already come from 'white sof'.
The main thing I think he meant to emphasize was that UKSF also do domestic CT, HR, Intel work, and things the US military does not due to Posse Comitatus. As far as JSOC mission sets, they can be pretty diverse when executing NCA-directed SMUs. AT and CT are quite different, as AT can get dicey with coordination or lack thereof with the Nation where AT goes down.
@LRRPFco52 That's a fair point. I never actually considered the nuances of AT being different from CT. And I have only heard of domestic advisory roles, with FBI HRT (domestic delta) or some other compareble unit being lead in such incidents . Though, I do know they work extensively with law enforcement(State and Federal), but probably not the same way UKSF would.
@@ssgtomen621 UKsf are always on standby to operate domestically like op nimrod in 1980 and they also continuously operating internationally both at macro and micro level operations. Delta and devgru does not have access or jurisdiction to handle hostage crisis domestically because that's handled by swat, sheriff's, fbi etc...uksf are utilized similar to op nimrod when the police can no longer handle the situation whereas the USA will have the swat and the fbi to deal with it etc
@boxerwayne666 A serious simplication-borderline misleading. CAG and DEVGRU are on standby, for any operation - international or domestic, though domestically, very likely limited to advisory and training the assault team. While not expected to perform direct actions roles, historically, they could, if needed, be, especially prior to FBI HRT that was formed extensively with the involvement of Delta. PS: Swat is an umbrella term. They are not all equal. There are national level SWAT teams that are more trained to cater specifically to hostage crisis. FBI HRT, while not advertised to be, are on par with the SAS, GIGN and CAG in HR and CT capabilities, with even a comparable attrition selection rate. So no, US won't send sherif department swat to handle a hostage crisis.
The M-4 has existed under variants and other nomenclature since Viet Nam. It’s started at XM-177. Then CAR-15 variants etc. Now JSOC has used HK 416’s for years.
@@garyp6395 they were CAR-15s till 82' when XM177E2 was made off the A-2, the regular Army & Marines had M-16s, Special Ops had Carbines hence the M-4 designation to replace M-3,it wouldn't get contracted till 93', but M-4 wouldn't come on till 99' right before GWOT
@@Frank-uw5xq the M16A2 came online with the Marines in ‘83 and Army in ‘86. The XM-177 was used in Nam by SEALs and MAC SOG as well as Ranger Companies (LRRPs)
"CAR-15” was a family of weapons cobbled together by Colt to compete with the Stoner 63 modular weapons system. It included: 603 Infantry Rifle 605 Infantry Leader Carbine (15” barrel) 607 Commando w/10” barrel 608 USAF survival carbine LMG Belt-fed AR-15 UK SOF used a lot of Colt Canada Diemaco rifles and carbines dating way back before the C7 existed. SAS used AR-15s in the war in Borneo in the mid-1960s, for example. SAS and SBS both had AR-15s in Falklands, as well as Desert Storm. SFOD-D used 653s and M16A1s with M203s in the early days up through Grenada. When the M16A2 and M855 ammunition became standardized, they got 723s with 1/7 twist barrels. Those were the first M16A2 carbines, which were basically 653s with 1/7 twist pipes and A2 pistol grips. The 723 was updated with the Abu Dhabi/C7 upper with brass deflector in 1987, Fiberlite stock, and extended feed ramps. Still had pencil barrels, but could also be fitted with the later 727 barrels with the heavy forend with M203 bracket cut (same barrel used for the M4 later in 1994). The Colt 727 had the M16A2 rear sights, extended feed ramps (unlike the M16A2 upper), and heavy forend barrel with M203 step, as well as a clipped handguard cap that allowed installation of the M203 receiver. With the old carbine handguard cap, it didn’t allow the M203 receiver to clear it, so they had to be clipped. That handguard cap was standardized on the M4A1/M4 as well. M4A1/M4 entered production/distribution in 1994, which is when JSOC and Ranger Regiment started getting them to replace 723s and 727s. SEALs had been using 727s since the late 1980s as well to replace their 653s and M16A1s.
Honestly, when you compare the two, it really comes down to the type of mission. The SAS would have the upper hand when it comes to long-term recon, blending in with locals, and carrying out intelligence-driven ops behind enemy lines or in counter-insurgency situations. They’re masters of small, stealthy operations that need endurance and subtlety. On the flip side, Delta Force shines in fast, high-impact raids, direct-action missions, and hostage rescues that demand overwhelming force and a quick tactical response. They’re all about leveraging cutting-edge tech, advanced tactics, and precision strikes. Both units are insanely well-trained, and in the end, it really depends on the mission. If it’s covert and intel-heavy, the SAS might be your go-to. But if it’s a high-stakes, time-sensitive situation where you need to hit hard and fast, Delta’s where you want to look.
Just watched on Amazon on how the SAS came to be. I have so much respect for those guys. They low key was the reason for the expediting end of WW2. It’s not surprising that Delta was derived from the SAS. Their mission success opened up americas eyes to form a tier 1 unit.
I can't speak for Colonel Beckwith. But Colonel David Stirling. The founder of the SAS, was very informal with his men. He didn't want to be called Sir, and didn't want saluted. Everyone was part of the team.
@@YARROWS9 well the unit is where the big boys are. They go by first name basis just like army green berets. Since they are heavily deployed around the world they don’t deal with petty regular army politics. When it comes down to it in garrison, they respect the rank system, but when they are deployed they are brothers and go by first name basis.
@@FMD023 The Regiment, and the Unit. They don't need any introduction. I love how low key Delta is. They are quite happy for Devgru to get all the attention.
@@YARROWS9 it’s the navy higher ups. They opened the can of worms when they forced Marcus to tell his story. Marcus even said in an interview, they wanted a reporter embedded with him but he was still operational during his time in OIF after what happened to him in OEF. The Navy used him as a recruiting tool which I feel bad for Marcus. He’s the only seal I feel deserves the compensation. The navy told him he would be doing a lot for his country by telling his story. Going all accross the Us to speak about how he let his team down must have been so traumatic for him. That lead to other Seals getting bright ideas for that $$$ grab. I hate it that some hate on Marcus but it really wasn’t his choice. If Rob just owned up to the fact that he wrote the book as a cash grab I think I would respect him more. Instead he uses the excuse of “I’m doing it for all the family n victims of 9/11.” Which is a crock of chit. IMO all around wise I think green berets are your true quiet professionals. Delta is just the best of the best.
Ice cream ....steak ! Chicken! 😂what the hell ...we are eating rashion packs ..,but no force's in the world will beat are humour when your down we laugh at everything it keeps you going seriously i love my country 🇬🇧💯
Melvin yet again highlights the notoriously fucking tight arsed MOD would give their best troops even a decent feed let alone decent equipment. That's why CAG and the aussie SASR had the edge. Facilities matter. Budgets and equipment matter. US tier 1 had absurd funding and facilities.
I get no other military can compete with US funding, but SASR vs SAS? Aussie military is half the size of the British and not as well funded....so im not sure about that one.
@@RenegadeRanga per capita, Bud no one cares per capita, do they have better equipment and capability. do they have aircraft to deploy from. do they have ships t deploy from, gun bombs etc....answer is, no they are not as well supported as the SAS. its why the whole world borrows drones etc from the US....they have so much more. SASR doesn't come close especially not if you wanna talk operational experience.
you should branch out. I like hearing stories from guys that have served on a SMU as much as the next guy, but you should change it up. also you staring into my soul doesn't help. Please take no offense. I'm only sharing my opinion.
Make sure to like, subscribe, comment and watch the full interview here: ua-cam.com/video/RuOVLWEkhKc/v-deo.html
Melvyn Downes is one of the finest soldiers this country has ever had. Legend of a man!
where's he from? Stoke on Trent?
He fought for his self chosen overlords..
Sucker...they used you..
@@davidstone5094 what you fight for stoney: Your mom, your boyfriend, your race, your vaues?
This brother has seen a lot. My hat’s off to you sir. Thank you for your service.
the enthusiasm as he talks is fantastic, bet he,s a good boss/leader of his troops
Thank you Britain for still producing and never changing the standards for the SAS - Delta and SAS from personal observation and others view, are the most professional! By far compared to others 🇺🇸🇬🇧🤙🏻
You Americans are our brothers we are the same people we come from the same history we will always be this way
The Brits are brothers forever.
So Canadians are cousins?
Melvyn seems like such a great bloke.
Bloke from Stoke
Bloke from Stoke
Melvin made an interesting point that David didn't really followup on. American Tier-1 units such as Delta and DEVGRU are very specialized in the counter-terrorism and hostage rescue roles while the SAS has to maintain proficiency in conducting missions that are the provice of "white" SOF such as the Green
Berets, Navy SEALs,and MARSOC Raiders in the US military. The UKSF maintains strong relations with JSOC but they also maintain relations with the wider
SOCOM community because the SAS/SBS could just as easily find themselves working alongside Green Berets,SEALs, or MARSOC as they would with Delta
and DEVGRU.
Not entirely true. Delta may specialize in CT and and HR, but they still expected to remain proficient to execute any mission required by the NSC. Most of their first missions conducted by Delta in 80s were UW and Foreign internal defense. While core CT skills are most certainly covered during OTC- trade craft, CQB, est, allegedly, post completion operators still go through various schools that 'white SOF' specialize in. From long range special recon to mountain warfare. It helps a lot that more than 90% of them already come from 'white sof'.
The main thing I think he meant to emphasize was that UKSF also do domestic CT, HR, Intel work, and things the US military does not due to Posse Comitatus.
As far as JSOC mission sets, they can be pretty diverse when executing NCA-directed SMUs. AT and CT are quite different, as AT can get dicey with coordination or lack thereof with the Nation where AT goes down.
@LRRPFco52 That's a fair point. I never actually considered the nuances of AT being different from CT. And I have only heard of domestic advisory roles, with FBI HRT (domestic delta) or some other compareble unit being lead in such incidents . Though, I do know they work extensively with law enforcement(State and Federal), but probably not the same way UKSF would.
@@ssgtomen621 UKsf are always on standby to operate domestically like op nimrod in 1980 and they also continuously operating internationally both at macro and micro level operations. Delta and devgru does not have access or jurisdiction to handle hostage crisis domestically because that's handled by swat, sheriff's, fbi etc...uksf are utilized similar to op nimrod when the police can no longer handle the situation whereas the USA will have the swat and the fbi to deal with it etc
@boxerwayne666 A serious simplication-borderline misleading. CAG and DEVGRU are on standby, for any operation - international or domestic, though domestically, very likely limited to advisory and training the assault team. While not expected to perform direct actions roles, historically, they could, if needed, be, especially prior to FBI HRT that was formed extensively with the involvement of Delta.
PS: Swat is an umbrella term. They are not all equal. There are national level SWAT teams that are more trained to cater specifically to hostage crisis. FBI HRT, while not advertised to be, are on par with the SAS, GIGN and CAG in HR and CT capabilities, with even a comparable attrition selection rate. So no, US won't send sherif department swat to handle a hostage crisis.
Melvyn top bloke and a credit to our country.
Great interview. I found the closed captions invaluable to understand what he was saying!
Hey seems to be so awesome.. hope to listen to the whole reel now.
He's referring to a Diemco "Colt Canada" C-7 CAR-15, an AR-15 high quality, the SAS, Delta, others used them before the M-4 was developed
The M-4 has existed under variants and other nomenclature since Viet Nam. It’s started at XM-177. Then CAR-15 variants etc. Now JSOC has used HK 416’s for years.
@@garyp6395 they were CAR-15s till 82' when XM177E2 was made off the A-2, the regular Army & Marines had M-16s, Special Ops had Carbines hence the M-4 designation to replace M-3,it wouldn't get contracted till 93', but M-4 wouldn't come on till 99' right before GWOT
@@garyp6395 So actually CAR-15 variant was used up thru the 90s, as a carbine, of course M-16s were always there since Nam too
@@Frank-uw5xq the M16A2 came online with the Marines in ‘83 and Army in ‘86. The XM-177 was used in Nam by SEALs and MAC SOG as well as Ranger Companies (LRRPs)
"CAR-15” was a family of weapons cobbled together by Colt to compete with the Stoner 63 modular weapons system. It included:
603 Infantry Rifle
605 Infantry Leader Carbine (15” barrel)
607 Commando w/10” barrel
608 USAF survival carbine
LMG Belt-fed AR-15
UK SOF used a lot of Colt Canada Diemaco rifles and carbines dating way back before the C7 existed. SAS used AR-15s in the war in Borneo in the mid-1960s, for example. SAS and SBS both had AR-15s in Falklands, as well as Desert Storm.
SFOD-D used 653s and M16A1s with M203s in the early days up through Grenada. When the M16A2 and M855 ammunition became standardized, they got 723s with 1/7 twist barrels. Those were the first M16A2 carbines, which were basically 653s with 1/7 twist pipes and A2 pistol grips.
The 723 was updated with the Abu Dhabi/C7 upper with brass deflector in 1987, Fiberlite stock, and extended feed ramps. Still had pencil barrels, but could also be fitted with the later 727 barrels with the heavy forend with M203 bracket cut (same barrel used for the M4 later in 1994).
The Colt 727 had the M16A2 rear sights, extended feed ramps (unlike the M16A2 upper), and heavy forend barrel with M203 step, as well as a clipped handguard cap that allowed installation of the M203 receiver. With the old carbine handguard cap, it didn’t allow the M203 receiver to clear it, so they had to be clipped. That handguard cap was standardized on the M4A1/M4 as well.
M4A1/M4 entered production/distribution in 1994, which is when JSOC and Ranger Regiment started getting them to replace 723s and 727s. SEALs had been using 727s since the late 1980s as well to replace their 653s and M16A1s.
I remember those runs.
What a remarkable soldier. That would be a guy to have some beers with at the end of the day.
Honestly, when you compare the two, it really comes down to the type of mission. The SAS would have the upper hand when it comes to long-term recon, blending in with locals, and carrying out intelligence-driven ops behind enemy lines or in counter-insurgency situations. They’re masters of small, stealthy operations that need endurance and subtlety.
On the flip side, Delta Force shines in fast, high-impact raids, direct-action missions, and hostage rescues that demand overwhelming force and a quick tactical response. They’re all about leveraging cutting-edge tech, advanced tactics, and precision strikes.
Both units are insanely well-trained, and in the end, it really depends on the mission. If it’s covert and intel-heavy, the SAS might be your go-to. But if it’s a high-stakes, time-sensitive situation where you need to hit hard and fast, Delta’s where you want to look.
Thank you melvyn sir you are a credit to are country god bless you sir m8 🇬🇧💪
Just watched on Amazon on how the SAS came to be. I have so much respect for those guys. They low key was the reason for the expediting end of WW2. It’s not surprising that Delta was derived from the SAS. Their mission success opened up americas eyes to form a tier 1 unit.
I can't speak for Colonel Beckwith. But Colonel David Stirling. The founder of the SAS, was very informal with his men. He didn't want to be called Sir, and didn't want saluted. Everyone was part of the team.
@@YARROWS9 well the unit is where the big boys are. They go by first name basis just like army green berets. Since they are heavily deployed around the world they don’t deal with petty regular army politics. When it comes down to it in garrison, they respect the rank system, but when they are deployed they are brothers and go by first name basis.
@@FMD023 The Regiment, and the Unit. They don't need any introduction. I love how low key Delta is. They are quite happy for Devgru to get all the attention.
@@YARROWS9 it’s the navy higher ups. They opened the can of worms when they forced Marcus to tell his story. Marcus even said in an interview, they wanted a reporter embedded with him but he was still operational during his time in OIF after what happened to him in OEF. The Navy used him as a recruiting tool which I feel bad for Marcus. He’s the only seal I feel deserves the compensation. The navy told him he would be doing a lot for his country by telling his story. Going all accross the Us to speak about how he let his team down must have been so traumatic for him. That lead to other Seals getting bright ideas for that $$$ grab. I hate it that some hate on Marcus but it really wasn’t his choice. If Rob just owned up to the fact that he wrote the book as a cash grab I think I would respect him more. Instead he uses the excuse of “I’m doing it for all the family n victims of 9/11.” Which is a crock of chit. IMO all around wise I think green berets are your true quiet professionals. Delta is just the best of the best.
Respect.
Why don't we outright fund the British/Canadian/Australian/New Zealand Special Forces?
We're always working together, and we're all Brethren.
1984 god bless this brilliant man who loves his country 💯👍🏼🇬🇧
Division runs at bragg. Like being digested inside of a mile long human centipede.
Different world 🇺🇸🇬🇧
All American Week, the whole 82nd goes for a run.
Awesome brit!!!
"oh me lights gone out" idk why I laughed
I like Melvyn but this interviewer only cared about who’s better
Melvyn - do you remember that Harvey Wall Banger Mel brought up ? :)
One military guy praises another military guy. That's your headline???
Ice cream ....steak ! Chicken! 😂what the hell ...we are eating rashion packs ..,but no force's in the world will beat are humour when your down we laugh at everything it keeps you going seriously i love my country 🇬🇧💯
Great interview, even better individual, but can you please ask him to speak ENGLISH! Ha! 🇺🇸🇬🇧
ARNF Beautiful Britain
🇺🇸 🇬🇧
Are American brother's 🇺🇸🇬🇧💯💪💪💪
He just said the Americans SOF take steroids 😂
Melvin yet again highlights the notoriously fucking tight arsed MOD would give their best troops even a decent feed let alone decent equipment. That's why CAG and the aussie SASR had the edge. Facilities matter. Budgets and equipment matter. US tier 1 had absurd funding and facilities.
I get no other military can compete with US funding, but SASR vs SAS?
Aussie military is half the size of the British and not as well funded....so im not sure about that one.
@@OMT988 per capita funding is better with the aussie SASR than the British.
@@RenegadeRanga per capita, Bud no one cares per capita, do they have better equipment and capability.
do they have aircraft to deploy from. do they have ships t deploy from, gun bombs etc....answer is, no they are not as well supported as the SAS. its why the whole world borrows drones etc from the US....they have so much more.
SASR doesn't come close especially not if you wanna talk operational experience.
Are SASR even Tier 1?
We're your poor brother..❤
Sorry the L119A1 carbine every British force's should have one ! It really has became a joke ..
you should branch out. I like hearing stories from guys that have served on a SMU as much as the next guy, but you should change it up. also you staring into my soul doesn't help. Please take no offense. I'm only sharing my opinion.
It's fascinating for a lot of people to hear about the differences in training brought about by different levels of funding.
David,
Of note, Charles B was with the SAS prior to his time in Vietnam as an exchange officer. 🫡
If special forces are so special than why do they keep losing...
??