I'm still trying to figure out how I care about how people view me. So a black person being discriminated against because of their name is 'minimal' to you? Real estate brokers who refused/refuse to show black people homes is 'minimal' to you? When AA did not exist, THEY viewed you as beneath them. When AA is gone, do you honestly think they would still consider you their equal??? Do you know what racism? You are inferior to them because they are racist, not because of AA.
You don't dismantle something that's dubious like Affirmative Action before you build something more appropriate because the underlying issue of inequality still exists.
This all reminds me of how I heard about some jerk who said science should be "dumbed down" in order to bring in more women and blacks. I'm a woman. Ask me if I felt good about that one.
McWhorter mentioned being the sole representative in a classroom in his point to end affirmative action. A lot of minority students feel this way because of the lack of diversity on campus and when speaking about issues of race, class, and gender, the minority person is often one of the few with a different point of view. Ending affirmative action would decrease the number of minority students on college campuses by a lot and minority students would have to be sole representatives more often.
I haven't read any of the comments, but I'm going to guess 99% of you have no idea what affirmative action is or does, why it can be good or bad, and why it is or isn't needed.
Really, really intelligent people I've known since childhood were the best students in our under funded schools, and they went on to universities and found it was difficult to keep up with everyone else. To rob children of the chance to keep up with rigor and then say we are helping by putting them in situations we didn't empower them to handle, we help no one. That being said, many of these students found a way to learn, keep up, and advance themselves after wards, but not without suffering for 4-6 years to get the degree in the first place, all the while questioning their power and position constantly. It undermines their gifts and self esteem.
Still that taxi driver deem blacks as inferior. You're a successful black man and he won't give you a ride in his taxi because of your color. You're a successful black man and real estate brokers might be hesitant to show you apartments in certain areas of NYC. This has existed WAYYYY before AA. I worked in a big NYC high school that had 17 social studies teachers. Out of the 17 SS teachers, only ONE of them were black. This high school had a 55% plus percent black student population.
@laffytaffygreen There is no mechanism...they are simply saying that it has to happen on it's own. There shouldn't be an outside force that bridges this gap..the diversity will improve. You have to believe and have faith in our educational system and have faith that the gap will lessen because there are very smart people out there, many who are minorities, and those people do not need any assistance. The gap will close give it time
Being asked about the "black" experience gives you a chance to talk about your personal life experience. It isn't racist. "Blacks" do have a unique personal experience in America(most that I know).
So does this justify the taxi driver not taking you and other black people in his car? He can't use his common sense and see who is a threat to him? The driver does not care if a black person has a bandanna on his head or not. The taxi driver simply will not take blacks, regardless how they look, age, cleancut, dirty, whatever, and that's racist and unethical! Have you spoke to these taxi drivers??????!?!? Maybe they have stereotypes about blacks not being good tippers or something.
I'm not sure if I understand you, but how come you are not concerned about the discrimination that racists practice? How come you are more concerned about AA than everything else? What, AA hurts your image? When AA did not exist, they still looked at YOU as being inferior to them. Oh, I understand that racism hurts society as a whole. I'm only saying this: if you are going to go after AA, go after everything else too! Focus on AA and damn everything else. Now, I get it.
@ResearchKnowledge123 just because something is right does not mean it works...AA at least in education has been shown to be a disaster for Afri Amer students. Every single black student who got into an elite school under AA would of still got into a regular school without it, the only difference is that a lot of those students ended up flucking out or doing badly, where if they went to the school they matched with they would of excelled and went on to grad school to phd's
@drj90210 No,majority of black businesses are denied to loans,that means white ppl ideas are better. Whites have 12xwealth than blacks due to inheritance.If that quota of whites is not true then why,schools like harvard has kept a "quota" of 90% white since 1960. Since 1930 98% of bank loans were given to whites to open businesses, own houses. Which were passed down to generation, then until FHA in 1962 was created. It wasn't maintained to be fair,in 2006 was the highest # of race discrimination
No, I actually don't. I have a pretty general life experience that holds no distinctive manner that appears as a "black" experience, and I have met several black people that I would say would share the same sentiment. What is the "black" experience? (Serious question, as I the "black" experience would be completely subjective)
@TBow009 Close proximity? We live in segregated neighborhoods... I live in philadelphia where most whites I come across live in economic areas of philadelphia (not really considered phila) where the money flow is higher while blacks live in low class areas. It's like that for most of the neighborhoods in America.
Skin color, attitude, hard work, creativity, being fat, too tall, too skinny, bald, bad teeth, looks, dress, education, too short. speaking ability, networking etc. all are factors in employement. Some people with power share, some people with Power don't share. Some people without power share, some people without power share. I'm not giving a job to anyone who skin happens to have more pigment than the average person's skin color
I know the positives of Affirmative Action. I personally believe Affirmative Action damages Black Americans only (more specifically admissions into schools) I hope you understand now.
He comes across as an intelligent and rational man. Perhaps using logic and reasoning is much more profitable than relying on reactionary, emotional, bias.
The percentages are off the top of my head; I added a plus. Speaking from my experience, I graduated from a predominantly "black" High School with the best honors and IB/AP program in the schools history - I was one of the few black students to actually graduate from it, the majority being white. On one side of the spectrum you had students eagered to learn and excel, on the other you had students with the audacity to bully their teachers. This was common. It was like two different schools inone
It may be true that no study has shown that racial diversity increases a person's GPA. But it is true that numerous studies, including one by Chang, have found that racial and ethnic diversity creates a rich social and learning environment that improves a students' complex thinking ability. Also, multiple survey studies show a positive relation between campus diversity and educational satisfaction. And longitudinal studies show that diversity increases and maintains ones' racial tolerance.
hmmm sounds like the type of excuse of they gave to not deal with slavery or segregation for so long. neither of which were dealt with until FORCED to do so.
@theChangaMusic Agreed, and if we were to remake Affirmative Action to adress purely socio-economic disparities it would be a vastly better system. Yes it would help some poor white kids but it would help a proportionally much larger number of black and hispanic students since minorities are disproportionately poorer. The current system is flawed. What kind of message are we sending a middle class black kid when we tell him that he needs 200 extra SAT pts to compete with whites?
No, I never said the civil rights legislation had anything to do with AA. We simply have different opinions. I'm not such an AA fan because of the inclusion of women and other 'minorities.' Personally, I think programs should have been set aside in the 1960s for blacks and poor folks as a whole. Housing grants, education grants, etc, equal schools/training, etc. White flight hurt blacks too. I can read you Judd and Swanstrom statistics about the systematic preferences whites received.
@drj90210 THAT IS HOW DEBATE WORKS!, here . Since you can not link articles here, I gave you the NAMES of specific articles, and the exact location to where you can find them. Also Handicapped has an wider manning than what you are thinking about .
Affirmative action isn't a "tie breaker" because people of America aren't tied(equal). Tim Wise MLK quote would be a common sense suggestion I would make.
it believe he meant to say that comparing black students to legacy students or being accepted to uiversties for which their score did not qualify them does not help them to be there best.... at least i think thats what he meant
Systematic disadvantaged or not, the problem isn't really that simple. And it wasn't just my school, but neighboring ones as well. The problem starts at home. Speaking just based on what I heared and read, even with the top school in the county, blacks are still underperforming and it isn't hard to figure out why. Whatever is going on at home, it's not working, and it's not because anyone is oppressed.
See, I RESPOND to all of your responses, unlike YOU to all mine. Henry Ford offered GWC a nice salary. But, what good is a nice salary when hotels discriminated against you, food institututions, retails institutions, etc. GWC, with his six figure salary, would have had to go to the back alley to use the bathroom!
@Joeybsmooth True, and both of those preferences are unfair and should end. The problem is that only a fraction of white students benefit from those preferences whereas all black students recieve affirmative action. Not to mention that racial preference (Tim wise even admits this in his speech) is the largest boost in points. Yes I agree though that geographic/legacy preferences should end as well.
@Joeybsmooth 'cops pull over black people with nice cars', is a pretty vague and anecdotal peace of evidence to make your point. Moreover, even if we are to accept this as a statistically valid phenomenon it's still quite a stretch to basically go 'Cops target black people/assumed classism '- ergo we need a system of racial policies in which an upper-middle class black kid is seen as more disadvantaged than an impoverished white kid.
@EasyEs Exactly, by their logic we should also force Egyptians to give affirmative action to Jews or force the Algerians to give affirmative action to white Mediterranean people, or force the mongolians to give affirmative action to any ethnic chinese in their country or force turkey to give affirmative action to ethnic Ukrainians the list goes on...
Wow, a community that rather focuses on the content of one's character, rather than a superfluous notion such as color, is small and ignorant. It's like you're calling yourself a moron, or at least begging for it. If the point of a "black" experience is to express racism, then say racism. Racism is racism - it's not a "black" experience. And you can blame Affirmative Action for making a judgment based on color more prevalent. Reverse discrimination - like fighting fire with fire.
LMBAO@ YOU RESPONDING TO CAPS BECAUSE YOU CANT REFUTE WHAT I SAID... NO THE TRUTH MAKES MY ARGUMENT VALID(YOU KNOW THE TRUTH YOU CANT REFUTE AND WONT TRY TO REFUTE).. NEXT TIME MAKE YOUR COMMENT MORE VALID BY TYPING IN CAOPS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO THE SUBJECT/TOPIC THE PERSON BRINGS UP... THANX
I took my 2 year to his doctor appointment he sat at the table which had toys on for the children to play with we are African Americans suddenly this 3 year old White girl runs to my son and licked his cheek I turned toward her Mother that looked at me and said I'm so sorry she's never seen a Black person except on T.V. They are from a small town and her daughter thinks Black people are made do Chocolate that's why she licked him... My thought was I there is no place I could live that my child
@drj90210 Do you have stats on how this hurts white males? do you know that less qualified white students get admissions yearly at the expense of other highly qualified white students. test scores are just another measure they use to weigh candidacy.
Discredit of hardwork, intelligence, and character are all undershadowed by Affirmative Action concerning African Americans. I have given my reasons--no matter how weak or strong they are.I am not retracting. Who the HELL are you to say what is and is not a valid argument. I disgress, what are your opinion on Affrimative Action since you are so keen on dismissing others.
@1337bard UC Berkeley is hostile but it's not intolerant. I've met very few people who have had to hide their true selves to fit in. However, as a result, they may not fit in so much because of this. That's why I'd describe the environment here as hostile too.
I was talking about racism in reply to your "black" experience. I misread your first comment, agreed, but you're off on a tangent. I'm not talking about no one not seeing color. Everyone sees color, my argument is towards your fictitious notion that racism is dominant in any American community, which is what I understood by your comment. And please don't randomly throw the word straw-men. Prejudice is innate, it's a human function based on tribalism, which evolves into racism,asuperioritycomplex
Preconcieved notions based on "race" arent human nature at all because race by skin pigment is a social construct. You are taught that people differ because of skin color by society. Self identity is different.
I agree that their is a problem at home. But I do not agree that it isnt from oppression. Are you one to say that slavery, Jim Crow, racial descrimination, racial segregation and oppression from generations ago dont have ripple effects?
@drj90210 Just wow, you have shown with your lack of understanding of US history that you are not an authority. There for trying too prove you are right by citing that you have a degree in US history does not carry much weight. By the way I hold BAs in History and Political Science. Given your logic I would be more knowledgeable on this subject only based on that.
@Joeybsmooth And stop derailing this conversation talking about your "qualifications" You where to lazy to go were I told you for proof. So I posted them, you need to look at them fast before they are removed .
You're arguing about color, I'm arguing about racism. I was under the impression we agreed that this "black" experience is racism, isn't that the basis of your argument with people seeing color? Some being racist as well as institutions? Well I am telling you that I and several black people have never experienced racism in response to your generalization, not that I don't know what a white or black person is.
Racism is the AMERICAN STANDARD! I didnt insult you unless you are in fact ignorant or not smart enough to realize the differences in treatment of "whites" and "blacks". Again, a strawman. I didnt say "communities with little racism" I said "community that doesnt see color". When you have preconcieved notions of others because of skin pigment and you consider a certain skin pigment to mean "race" than you have a racial stereotype. That isnt human nature, thats BS. Where is this dream community?
@drj90210 First I have shown your where white people are advantaged , and learn some history, black people we still facing government mandated racism in the late 60s . And slavery was still alive and well 150. So I do not get why you have to say from something that happen 200 years ago .
@drj90210 You have the gall to talk about MLK's Dream while you try to take away the only thing that comes close to evening things. Black people still have a harder time even when they are qualified, and you want to act as if white people did not have there Affrimtive Action for close to 200 years.
Don't create a strawman. Im saying that community doesnt exist in the US or if it does, it's a very small community. I said YOU may be to ignorant or not smart enough to realize the difference. True, the "black" experience and racism cannot be seperated. We live in a racist country. Affirmative actions purpose was to make something that was inherently unequal, equal.
It reads like we agree in certain areas. In the majority of communities in the US, racial stereotypes and pejudice is prevelant. By your own assessment this leads to racism. The problem is that it leaks to institutions like our criminal justice system but my problem with American citizens is that we support these racist institutions by not doing anything about them. Im not saying that there is outright HATE. Misquoting me and then debating the misquote is creating a straw man to debate.
As I said, the "black" experience and racism cannot be seperated nut neither can any other "color". So Im arguing that seeing the social construct that is "color" go hand in hand with racism. I cant argue with you about people you claim to know because I dont know you or them. It's a pointless assertion. I never said you dont know what "white" or "black" is, Im saying you might not recognize the difference of treatment between "whites" and "blacks".
@drj90210 Even after showing proof to back up my statements you still wish to say it not ok. Using the the defense that something is a depiction of a study is a laughable . And to top that off she was not rely on criminals, there was a control group tested. But as someone already stated no matter what people show you are still going to turn a blind eye to what is going on. I am done with you . I have gone pass the standards of proof . And I see I am wasting my time.
@marx7555 I like who you speak about he points that black kids get .. how about the extra points that white students get . For example if you live in the right part of the state you get points spotted, if you take classes that are offered mostly in white areas you get points spotted .
You must be naive about Humans in general if you're going to sit there and honestly tell me that preconceived notions based on identity is not Human nature. Look at our society for gods sake. Not American society, the world, and history.
@derivativesarecool Do to years and years of a redlining , and housing discrimination it is far less likely for black people to be in those good parts of town. Unless you want to act like that did not happen . It is always funny how people act as if the past does not have a major effect on the here and now, that would be like suggesting that Paris Hilton would be as rich and famous today if your parents were not rich.
@drj90210 Now what you are doing is called appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy. You have shown that your knowledge of US history is questionable as most .
Racism exists in America, did I imply otherwise? I gave you MY experience, you return a baseless insult. Your initial comment implied of something that is uniquely black, which is absurd. Communities can be prejudice and have their people who hold preconceived notions of others, that's Human nature, but to express that a community with little racism being non-existant even in the U.S.A, is also absurd. Understand the word racism, rather than the liberal definition with its grand generalization.
@drj90210 Wow you talk about how debate works when all you use are straw man. And to the fact that you shown time after time that you do not have a understanding of history please do not ask me to learn about history .
Unless you eliminate race out of all the job applications and university applications this will never be a fair society. Why should you know my race to get admission into a university or hired for a job... That has been my opinion since I was born into this unequal and unfair society and I am forever sticking to it. Why should I care that I was admitted into a university because of affirmative action? Since 1960s and 70s the doors were closed for minorities to get into universities and get hired into a good paying job. I not only feel that affirmative action helps minorities but we need polices that are stronger.
tallkekepink95 Your beliefs contradict themselves. You want race to play no role in job or university applications, hence creating a perfect meritocracy (this is the ideal that pretty much everybody is working for). And yet you support affirmative action, and even "stronger policies," which clearly take into account your race and/or gender, hence disrupting the ideal of a meritocracy. These two beliefs are inconsistent. Either you only wish to be judged based on merit and you oppose affirmative action or you are for affirmative action and you believe that race should also be taken into account. Pick a side.
I totally agree. But even if you removed those racial categories on applications for colleges, jobs people would still have their prejudices. Even if those things were made invisible we would still see color.
How it works (helped in hiring process once at Fortune 500) if a black person is not or barely qualified, the black person always gets the job. I worked at 6 large companies and that is the way it always works!
I'm still trying to figure out how I care about how people view me. So a black person being discriminated against because of their name is 'minimal' to you? Real estate brokers who refused/refuse to show black people homes is 'minimal' to you? When AA did not exist, THEY viewed you as beneath them. When AA is gone, do you honestly think they would still consider you their equal??? Do you know what racism? You are inferior to them because they are racist, not because of AA.
This man is the man
You don't dismantle something that's dubious like Affirmative Action before you build something more appropriate because the underlying issue of inequality still exists.
This all reminds me of how I heard about some jerk who said science should be "dumbed down" in order to bring in more women and blacks. I'm a woman. Ask me if I felt good about that one.
McWhorter mentioned being the sole representative in a classroom in his point to end affirmative action. A lot of minority students feel this way because of the lack of diversity on campus and when speaking about issues of race, class, and gender, the minority person is often one of the few with a different point of view. Ending affirmative action would decrease the number of minority students on college campuses by a lot and minority students would have to be sole representatives more often.
I haven't read any of the comments, but I'm going to guess 99% of you have no idea what affirmative action is or does, why it can be good or bad, and why it is or isn't needed.
Really, really intelligent people I've known since childhood were the best students in our under funded schools, and they went on to universities and found it was difficult to keep up with everyone else. To rob children of the chance to keep up with rigor and then say we are helping by putting them in situations we didn't empower them to handle, we help no one. That being said, many of these students found a way to learn, keep up, and advance themselves after wards, but not without suffering for 4-6 years to get the degree in the first place, all the while questioning their power and position constantly. It undermines their gifts and self esteem.
Still that taxi driver deem blacks as inferior. You're a successful black man and he won't give you a ride in his taxi because of your color. You're a successful black man and real estate brokers might be hesitant to show you apartments in certain areas of NYC. This has existed WAYYYY before AA. I worked in a big NYC high school that had 17 social studies teachers. Out of the 17 SS teachers, only ONE of them were black. This high school had a 55% plus percent black student population.
🇺🇸
@laffytaffygreen
There is no mechanism...they are simply saying that it has to happen on it's own. There shouldn't be an outside force that bridges this gap..the diversity will improve. You have to believe and have faith in our educational system and have faith that the gap will lessen because there are very smart people out there, many who are minorities, and those people do not need any assistance. The gap will close give it time
McWhorter rambles. Both men are intelligent, so it would be a waste of time to say one is moreso than the other, but Wise is WAY better on delivery.
speaking truth to power
Being asked about the "black" experience gives you a chance to talk about your personal life experience. It isn't racist. "Blacks" do have a unique personal experience in America(most that I know).
So does this justify the taxi driver not taking you and other black people in his car? He can't use his common sense and see who is a threat to him? The driver does not care if a black person has a bandanna on his head or not. The taxi driver simply will not take blacks, regardless how they look, age, cleancut, dirty, whatever, and that's racist and unethical! Have you spoke to these taxi drivers??????!?!? Maybe they have stereotypes about blacks not being good tippers or something.
I'm not sure if I understand you, but how come you are not concerned about the discrimination that racists practice? How come you are more concerned about AA than everything else? What, AA hurts your image? When AA did not exist, they still looked at YOU as being inferior to them. Oh, I understand that racism hurts society as a whole. I'm only saying this: if you are going to go after AA, go after everything else too! Focus on AA and damn everything else. Now, I get it.
@ResearchKnowledge123 just because something is right does not mean it works...AA at least in education has been shown to be a disaster for Afri Amer students. Every single black student who got into an elite school under AA would of still got into a regular school without it, the only difference is that a lot of those students ended up flucking out or doing badly, where if they went to the school they matched with they would of excelled and went on to grad school to phd's
@drj90210 No,majority of black businesses are denied to loans,that means white ppl ideas are better. Whites have 12xwealth than blacks due to inheritance.If that quota of whites is not true then why,schools like harvard has kept a "quota" of 90% white since 1960. Since 1930 98% of bank loans were given to whites to open businesses, own houses. Which were passed down to generation, then until FHA in 1962 was created. It wasn't maintained to be fair,in 2006 was the highest # of race discrimination
McWhorter makes his money criticizing black money
Wow...John saw the "wokeness" coming from a few miles off.
No, I actually don't. I have a pretty general life experience that holds no distinctive manner that appears as a "black" experience, and I have met several black people that I would say would share the same sentiment. What is the "black" experience? (Serious question, as I the "black" experience would be completely subjective)
@TBow009 Close proximity? We live in segregated neighborhoods... I live in philadelphia where most whites I come across live in economic areas of philadelphia (not really considered phila) where the money flow is higher while blacks live in low class areas. It's like that for most of the neighborhoods in America.
Skin color, attitude, hard work, creativity, being fat, too tall, too skinny, bald, bad teeth, looks, dress, education, too short. speaking ability, networking etc. all are factors in employement. Some people with power share, some people with Power don't share. Some people without power share, some people without power share. I'm not giving a job to anyone who skin happens to have more pigment than the average person's skin color
what is a diverse person?
I know the positives of Affirmative Action. I personally believe Affirmative Action damages Black Americans only (more specifically admissions into schools) I hope you understand now.
He comes across as an intelligent and rational man. Perhaps using logic and reasoning is much more profitable than relying on reactionary, emotional, bias.
The percentages are off the top of my head; I added a plus. Speaking from my experience, I graduated from a predominantly "black" High School with the best honors and IB/AP program in the schools history - I was one of the few black students to actually graduate from it, the majority being white. On one side of the spectrum you had students eagered to learn and excel, on the other you had students with the audacity to bully their teachers. This was common. It was like two different schools inone
It may be true that no study has shown that racial diversity increases a person's GPA. But it is true that numerous studies, including one by Chang, have found that racial and ethnic diversity creates a rich social and learning environment that improves a students' complex thinking ability. Also, multiple survey studies show a positive relation between campus diversity and educational satisfaction. And longitudinal studies show that diversity increases and maintains ones' racial tolerance.
6:53 Fewer REAL PHD"S
EQUAL"S* More QUACK"S dressed up like Flamingo's
LOL
hmmm sounds like the type of excuse of they gave to not deal with slavery or segregation for so long. neither of which were dealt with until FORCED to do so.
With a country as diverse as America, how can we enforce this? Most people are some combination of races.
@theChangaMusic Agreed, and if we were to remake Affirmative Action to adress purely socio-economic disparities it would be a vastly better system. Yes it would help some poor white kids but it would help a proportionally much larger number of black and hispanic students since minorities are disproportionately poorer. The current system is flawed. What kind of message are we sending a middle class black kid when we tell him that he needs 200 extra SAT pts to compete with whites?
No, I never said the civil rights legislation had anything to do with AA. We simply have different opinions. I'm not such an AA fan because of the inclusion of women and other 'minorities.' Personally, I think programs should have been set aside in the 1960s for blacks and poor folks as a whole. Housing grants, education grants, etc, equal schools/training, etc. White flight hurt blacks too. I can read you Judd and Swanstrom statistics about the systematic preferences whites received.
@drj90210
THAT IS HOW DEBATE WORKS!, here . Since you can not link articles here, I gave you the NAMES of specific articles, and the exact location to where you can find them.
Also Handicapped has an wider manning than what you are thinking about .
Affirmative action isn't a "tie breaker" because people of America aren't tied(equal). Tim Wise MLK quote would be a common sense suggestion I would make.
it believe he meant to say that comparing black students to legacy students or being accepted to uiversties for which their score did not qualify them does not help them to be there best.... at least i think thats what he meant
Systematic disadvantaged or not, the problem isn't really that simple. And it wasn't just my school, but neighboring ones as well. The problem starts at home. Speaking just based on what I heared and read, even with the top school in the county, blacks are still underperforming and it isn't hard to figure out why. Whatever is going on at home, it's not working, and it's not because anyone is oppressed.
See, I RESPOND to all of your responses, unlike YOU to all mine. Henry Ford offered GWC a nice salary. But, what good is a nice salary when hotels discriminated against you, food institututions, retails institutions, etc. GWC, with his six figure salary, would have had to go to the back alley to use the bathroom!
did I hear him correctly when he said "I don't think it helps black students to be the best they can be"... can somebody explain fhat for me?
antqui11 affirmative action doesn't help black students to be the best they can be
@Joeybsmooth True, and both of those preferences are unfair and should end. The problem is that only a fraction of white students benefit from those preferences whereas all black students recieve affirmative action. Not to mention that racial preference (Tim wise even admits this in his speech) is the largest boost in points. Yes I agree though that geographic/legacy preferences should end as well.
I agree. Kudos on your assessment as well.
What about the white people who benefited from Affirmative Active? How do you feel about them and the institutionalized preferences they received?
Lets hear more !
Where are your sources coming from????
"his own people"? What, human beings?
@Joeybsmooth 'cops pull over black people with nice cars', is a pretty vague and anecdotal peace of evidence to make your point. Moreover, even if we are to accept this as a statistically valid phenomenon it's still quite a stretch to basically go 'Cops target black people/assumed classism '- ergo we need a system of racial policies in which an upper-middle class black kid is seen as more disadvantaged than an impoverished white kid.
This guy is monstrously smarter than Tim Wise. In other words, McWhorter owns.
@EasyEs Exactly, by their logic we should also force Egyptians to give affirmative action to Jews or force the Algerians to give affirmative action to white Mediterranean people, or force the mongolians to give affirmative action to any ethnic chinese in their country or force turkey to give affirmative action to ethnic Ukrainians the list goes on...
EXPLAIN HOW A GUITAR WILL SAVE OUR LIVES? ANDCAN YOU NAME ANY FORM OF POPULAR MUSIC THAT DOESNT HAVE BLACK ROOTS?
Wow, a community that rather focuses on the content of one's character, rather than a superfluous notion such as color, is small and ignorant. It's like you're calling yourself a moron, or at least begging for it. If the point of a "black" experience is to express racism, then say racism. Racism is racism - it's not a "black" experience. And you can blame Affirmative Action for making a judgment based on color more prevalent. Reverse discrimination - like fighting fire with fire.
LMBAO@ YOU RESPONDING TO CAPS BECAUSE YOU CANT REFUTE WHAT I SAID... NO THE TRUTH MAKES MY ARGUMENT VALID(YOU KNOW THE TRUTH YOU CANT REFUTE AND WONT TRY TO REFUTE).. NEXT TIME MAKE YOUR COMMENT MORE VALID BY TYPING IN CAOPS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO THE SUBJECT/TOPIC THE PERSON BRINGS UP... THANX
I took my 2 year to his doctor appointment he sat at the table which had toys on for the children to play with we are African Americans suddenly this 3 year old White girl runs to my son and licked his cheek I turned toward her Mother that looked at me and said I'm so sorry she's never seen a Black person except on T.V. They are from a small town and her daughter thinks Black people are made do Chocolate that's why she licked him... My thought was I there is no place I could live that my child
Carol Jean Huh?? The last sentence destroyed the meaning and clarity of your story. What was it that you thought when the mother said this???
@drj90210 Do you have stats on how this hurts white males? do you know that less qualified white students get admissions yearly at the expense of other highly qualified white students. test scores are just another measure they use to weigh candidacy.
CAPS LOCK MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT MORE VALID, RIIIIIIIIGHT?!!!!!
I'll continue this dialogue later.
Discredit of hardwork, intelligence, and character are all undershadowed by Affirmative Action concerning African Americans. I have given my reasons--no matter how weak or strong they are.I am not retracting. Who the HELL are you to say what is and is not a valid argument. I disgress, what are your opinion on Affrimative Action since you are so keen on dismissing others.
@Joeybsmooth In fact I think that we should get rid of those preferences before we even think of getting rid of AA.
@1337bard
UC Berkeley is hostile but it's not intolerant. I've met very few people who have had to hide their true selves to fit in. However, as a result, they may not fit in so much because of this.
That's why I'd describe the environment here as hostile too.
I was talking about racism in reply to your "black" experience. I misread your first comment, agreed, but you're off on a tangent. I'm not talking about no one not seeing color. Everyone sees color, my argument is towards your fictitious notion that racism is dominant in any American community, which is what I understood by your comment. And please don't randomly throw the word straw-men. Prejudice is innate, it's a human function based on tribalism, which evolves into racism,asuperioritycomplex
Preconcieved notions based on "race" arent human nature at all because race by skin pigment is a social construct. You are taught that people differ because of skin color by society. Self identity is different.
I agree that their is a problem at home. But I do not agree that it isnt from oppression. Are you one to say that slavery, Jim Crow, racial descrimination, racial segregation and oppression from generations ago dont have ripple effects?
Where are the rich black farmers?
@drj90210
Just wow, you have shown with your lack of understanding of US history that you are not an authority. There for trying too prove you are right by citing that you have a degree in US history does not carry much weight.
By the way I hold BAs in History and Political Science. Given your logic I would be more knowledgeable on this subject only based on that.
@Joeybsmooth
And stop derailing this conversation talking about your "qualifications" You where to lazy to go were I told you for proof. So I posted them, you need to look at them fast before they are removed .
You're arguing about color, I'm arguing about racism. I was under the impression we agreed that this "black" experience is racism, isn't that the basis of your argument with people seeing color? Some being racist as well as institutions? Well I am telling you that I and several black people have never experienced racism in response to your generalization, not that I don't know what a white or black person is.
Racism is the AMERICAN STANDARD! I didnt insult you unless you are in fact ignorant or not smart enough to realize the differences in treatment of "whites" and "blacks". Again, a strawman. I didnt say "communities with little racism" I said "community that doesnt see color". When you have preconcieved notions of others because of skin pigment and you consider a certain skin pigment to mean "race" than you have a racial stereotype. That isnt human nature, thats BS. Where is this dream community?
@drj90210
First I have shown your where white people are advantaged , and learn some history, black people we still facing government mandated racism in the late 60s . And slavery was still alive and well 150. So I do not get why you have to say from something that happen 200 years ago .
What are you talking about? How is this a response for what I said? I'm not talking about noticing color differences.
@drj90210
You have the gall to talk about MLK's Dream while you try to take away the only thing that comes close to evening things. Black people still have a harder time even when they are qualified, and you want to act as if white people did not have there Affrimtive Action for close to 200 years.
Also understand that much of Africa is still 3rd world.
Don't create a strawman. Im saying that community doesnt exist in the US or if it does, it's a very small community. I said YOU may be to ignorant or not smart enough to realize the difference. True, the "black" experience and racism cannot be seperated. We live in a racist country. Affirmative actions purpose was to make something that was inherently unequal, equal.
It reads like we agree in certain areas. In the majority of communities in the US, racial stereotypes and pejudice is prevelant. By your own assessment this leads to racism. The problem is that it leaks to institutions like our criminal justice system but my problem with American citizens is that we support these racist institutions by not doing anything about them. Im not saying that there is outright HATE.
Misquoting me and then debating the misquote is creating a straw man to debate.
As I said, the "black" experience and racism cannot be seperated nut neither can any other "color". So Im arguing that seeing the social construct that is "color" go hand in hand with racism. I cant argue with you about people you claim to know because I dont know you or them. It's a pointless assertion. I never said you dont know what "white" or "black" is, Im saying you might not recognize the difference of treatment between "whites" and "blacks".
@drj90210
Even after showing proof to back up my statements you still wish to say it not ok. Using the the defense that something is a depiction of a study is a laughable . And to top that off she was not rely on criminals, there was a control group tested. But as someone already stated no matter what people show you are still going to turn a blind eye to what is going on. I am done with you . I have gone pass the standards of proof . And I see I am wasting my time.
@marx7555
I like who you speak about he points that black kids get .. how about the extra points that white students get . For example if you live in the right part of the state you get points spotted, if you take classes that are offered mostly in white areas you get points spotted .
You must be naive about Humans in general if you're going to sit there and honestly tell me that preconceived notions based on identity is not Human nature. Look at our society for gods sake. Not American society, the world, and history.
@migkillertwo
That excuse is only trading racism in for classism, and by in large African-Americans are in the lower classes .
What excuse?
@derivativesarecool
Do to years and years of a redlining , and housing discrimination it is far less likely for black people to be in those good parts of town. Unless you want to act like that did not happen . It is always funny how people act as if the past does not have a major effect on the here and now, that would be like suggesting that Paris Hilton would be as rich and famous today if your parents were not rich.
@drj90210
Now what you are doing is called appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy. You have shown that your knowledge of US history is questionable as most .
Racism exists in America, did I imply otherwise? I gave you MY experience, you return a baseless insult. Your initial comment implied of something that is uniquely black, which is absurd. Communities can be prejudice and have their people who hold preconceived notions of others, that's Human nature, but to express that a community with little racism being non-existant even in the U.S.A, is also absurd. Understand the word racism, rather than the liberal definition with its grand generalization.
novel...did you come up with those phrases on your own? Keep quiet unless you have something intelligent to contribute.
@drj90210
Real "Equality" is an imaginary concept which cannot be defined, nor implemented.
lol, he said jigger, :P
@drj90210
Wow you talk about how debate works when all you use are straw man. And to the fact that you shown time after time that you do not have a understanding of history please do not ask me to learn about history .
@JayJ004 cant blame themselves but can always point finger at jews.
@Mr1700 true
YoungTon22 I do agree with you on this matter
Unless you eliminate race out of all the job applications and university applications this will never be a fair society. Why should you know my race to get admission into a university or hired for a job... That has been my opinion since I was born into this unequal and unfair society and I am forever sticking to it. Why should I care that I was admitted into a university because of affirmative action? Since 1960s and 70s the doors were closed for minorities to get into universities and get hired into a good paying job. I not only feel that affirmative action helps minorities but we need polices that are stronger.
tallkekepink95 Your beliefs contradict themselves. You want race to play no role in job or university applications, hence creating a perfect meritocracy (this is the ideal that pretty much everybody is working for). And yet you support affirmative action, and even "stronger policies," which clearly take into account your race and/or gender, hence disrupting the ideal of a meritocracy. These two beliefs are inconsistent. Either you only wish to be judged based on merit and you oppose affirmative action or you are for affirmative action and you believe that race should also be taken into account.
Pick a side.
+DLOsniper Do you think getting rid of affirmative action would bring about true meritocracy?
I totally agree. But even if you removed those racial categories on applications for colleges, jobs people would still have their prejudices. Even if those things were made invisible we would still see color.
How it works (helped in hiring process once at Fortune 500) if a black person is not or barely qualified, the black person always gets the job. I worked at 6 large companies and that is the way it always works!
I left corporate America because of this.I now run my own firm.
Heck I like the debate you guys are having more than the video (except Mr.Tim Wise he's always awesome)
I have no idea of what his premise was.
"I don't think that it helps black students to be the best that they can be"??????
there are 11 white history months you, they just arent called that
That’s stupid as hell lol I wasn’t aware we had 11 white history months 🤔 who’s ass did ya pull that out of?
I really want to know what his GMAT score is. He's probably a product of Affirmative Action himself.
He talks like a weirdo...open ya mouth and speak!