Yes. This is not a matter of most of us being too “sensitive” or melodramatic. I appreciate Brian standing firm on the fact that sexual assault and touching/groping someone’s private parts without consent, under ANY circumstances, is fucked up. Corny just kept on burying himself further, the more he tried to get Brian to concede that it’s totally common and kosher if one of your bosses grabs your dick or digitally penetrates you, without your consent and with the power imbalance, and factoring how most men don’t report their assaults because of idiots who would mock and blame a man in a myriad of ways. Gross. If sexual assault was really that normalized to Jim, my heart hurts thinking of all of the abuses against male and female talent we will never know about, and we already know quite a lot! Damn.
I don't agree with everything, Jim says, but I see what he is saying here. I have had relatives do the "checking oil" when I was younger. It was annoying, but it was sort of the norm. With Pat Patterson, I do believe Tony Atlas in this case, though. Also, sometimes people use joking to act their true intentions.
Jim Cornette criticizes Trump for touching women but then defends Pat Patterson for sexual assault...levels of hypocrisy heretofore unknown. It's sexual assault Jim, in both cases.
@@Swordsmansmith87 I love how you people always leave out the "When you're famous they'll LET you do anything"... But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative...
@heinrichvonwicker168 who's you people? Pat Patterson and Trump, both sexual assault. Forget the words it was the actions. Of course I guess that works for Patterson too, he was Vince's right hand man so he looked the other way.
This episode is like your favorite grandpa saying some weird shit at the family reunion that has you questioning whether he should drive himself home or not.
I respect Brian Last even more than I already did. He’s not going to concur with Jim because that would be the path of least resistance. He was firm and made it very clear, repeatedly, that that shit is absolutely not normal or okay or acceptable. I appreciate Brian so much for that.
I think the fact that people drawing a line between pats behaviour and the likes of Mel Phillips is common is telling. Even Jim has cognitive biases. The way he vociferously defends it specifically in regards to Pat is strange. He couldn't think of any other examples of other people doing the behaviour regularly, only point out one offs, which is a different thing. With Pat its clear he did the behaviour regularly and more than others. That makes him creepy. You can't just draw an arbitrary line.
Well I defend Pat Patterson's role in WWE. However, behaving like a degenerate when you might be with people who don't respect it MIGHT ruffle some feathers.
Didn't he also defend Flair's sexual assault on the Plane JoyRide as well? He seems to be ok with Sexual Assault/Rape (He supports Biden who has a history of Rape (Tarah Reade))
@leelohaskin7941 Yet that pus Brian Last will completely pretend Jim or himself don't have some wild as takes. Yet, attempt to be critical of everyone else. Pretending to be morally superior
It's boys locker room shenanigans. Very common back in the day. You'd see some guy stick his thumb up someone's ass in the locker room then hear that same guy calling someone a f*g later that day. It was a.... strange time..... lol
I'm glad Brian Last is here to point out to Jim Cornette that the things he was accustomed to in the locker room growing up was weird as fuck and never to be considered normal
@@LoudFlimzztimes change wasn't assault then simple as that people didn't think twice about it now its different if you're a kid born after 99 you simply dont get it and never will
Jim's take on the locker room stuff just shows that if you spend enough time in a weird environment, the weirdness eventually becomes assumed normality to you. And just for the record, everybody always jumps on the sexual stuff - but all that crap Mr. Fuji pulled with his "stiff ribs", for example, wasn't normal human behaviour either. The guy was a sadist. There's a reason why pro wrestling attracted so many people who couldn't function in regular society, not even for a month.
All of those ribbers seemed like really messed up people, ala Johnny Valentine who is famous or infamous for his ribs. Honestly, if it weren't for wrestling he probably would've ended up in prison somewhere. It's all just really shitty hazing and bullying, and in a lot of the cases it's just harassment and assaults. I don't like when Jim talks about his views on stuff like that cuz I really couldn't agree less with him, look at his comments about Flair and Dreamer after the Dark Side episode, and what's weird is that he was actually against them there. He is really old so I'm not surprised by any of this. Don't condone it ofc.
I’ll always remember the he story of Fuji cooking that man’s dog. And everyone looks back at him as the sweet old man working at a theater post retirement
It's not supposed to be "normal". It's a different culture in the same way other countries have different cultures. There are accepted and expected behaviors in other cultures that could be illegal in most western cultures. There is more than just one style of human being. It's understandable not to understand that though. Hell, it still surprises me that soccer is the biggest sport in the world.
In Korea, guys would go around poking each other in the asshole with their fingers as a rib. "Dung-chee" is what they'd say. To be clear, I only saw this happen with clothes on but it was quite a common prank. Even kids would do it. The whole world is 'weird'.
It got lost in translation, but he's right about the fact a poorly aged but not uncommon for the time locker room behavior shouldn't be enough to incriminate Pat as predator who was abusing his influence in the office.
@@KingGhidorah5464 There was a way to make that point without being as crass about it as Jim was here. He considered Pat a mentor and a friend so he came at it from a purely defensive standpoint which did neither Pat nor himself any favors.
And even back then, if that behavior went public, it would have ruined the reputation of the company. It would have had more to do with anti-gay sentiments than any kind of common decency, but that wouldn't change much.
@@hurgenflerg2133I can’t tell you how many times guys have reached for /slapped my junk or pinched my nips or slapped my @ss. In locker rooms and in the hallways at work and school. You seriously haven’t ever seen this? It’s constant with athletes and anywhere you find “bros”. I never participated in it and I think it’s blatantly homoerotic. But thats how it’s always been.
This is the same industry and time that thought crapping in someone's duffle bag and drugging unsuspecting people by spiking their drinks was "all in good fun" so it's not really surprising sexual assault would be in there. If they would have had a hot plate in the locker room it probably would have been "lol, scalding water to the face!"
Thankyou for sticking up for victims of assault Brian. I’m grateful. Upset by Jim’s stance on it but despite being beloved, he was in those locker rooms and still excuses a lot of things that absolutely shouldn’t be excused by saying ‘we all did it’.
His lawyers for the Janel Grant case must have torn their hair out when he said the Rita Chatterton stuff didn't matter anyway because the statute had passed.
@@rima7286nope after they produced The Love letter I thought wow Vince is actually innocent. Let me guess you're going to say Vince is a mind reader and forced her because he knew he would need a love letter LOL. She was not a child she's a 40 year old woman who knows how to say no and walk away from things. Y'all are letting your hatred for Vince McMahon blind you. It's ironic so many fans of a product hate the guy who made the product what it is.
@@shadycnetwork he made his daughter resign and sold the company, does that not go against everything you know about him? if im blinded by hate youre blinded by worship.
One thing I noticed about Vince while watching this is this way he has of blurting things out. He just says these kind of vile things and then sits there staring. For some reason it made me wonder if he’s furious that he finally got old. He wasn’t able to force old age into submission.
That's one thing he never criticises Trump for (at least I haven't heard it). He regularly defends people in situations like this. I somewhat agree with him but it depends on the circumstances. Anyway there must be a reason he strongly defends stuff like this though.. he's definitely had a fruity past
@Mark-eg2yd I'm sorry if I'm immature, but I use the word fruity, so anytime I see someone use fruity, I kinda laugh. Also, I think of Stevie Ray calling Scott Steiner Fruit Booty LOL
@@Mark-eg2ydI agree with him in some instances. Some accusations are purely motivated by other incentives. But it sounds like the E was just rofe with bad shit.
Started watching it and bailed it is for people who don't or didn't watch wrestling I ain't re-watching an edited version of what I've seen already with Vince's version of events presented They say the winner of war gets to write history but in Vince's case the criminal investigation and lawsuits may be writing his
The video was doing so good until the Pat’s Sexual behavior and Jim defending it. If Jim starts to blow up of Twitter/X for this. I think it’s safe to say, we are not defending him for this.
Yeah I can't get with Jim defending Pat either. I can imagine that if Ole Anderson or whoever else during the Crockett era groped him even if they were goofing around, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't like it and probably would be cursing them out the way he does Russo.
Ok not agreeing with Jim about Pat predatory behavior, but please nobody gives a fck about what the twitter says or not. Who do you think you are? Just write your take on the matter and that's it.
@@Monster_gamez-f4n Im not pissed. Im just saying that is stupid to think that twitter is relevant just because is twitter. What it could be relevant is an articulated opinion on the matter that makes sense.
@@0elpollojuan0 oh for sure. I brought up Twitter because in the past, Jim has been treading for nonsensical reasons. Although I don’t agree with Jim, he doesn’t care about a random person (such as myself) commenting on his video which he wouldn’t read nor respond. All in all, yes Twitter shouldn’t be taken seriously just like my comment.
Brian deserves the Last word on this Pat Patterson debate. Jake Roberts has an interview on youtube where you can see he was clearly abused by Pat Patterson. Patterson abused his position of power in that company. Cornette is so far off the mark with this topic. The line, Tony was from a small town he hadn't been out much.what are you talking about Jim! Tony didn't deserve getting felt up by Patterson, Jake didn't deserve it, none of them deserved it but none of could speak up cause they'd be sacked from the job if they did.
People don't like what's being said about Pat Patterson and using the excuse "its bc he was gay..". Sexual Harassment is about power, gay or straight, he had power.
it was uncouth but yeah, plenty of locker room pranks and hazing like that back then. You see it still on the news today so imagine back then when a lot of things were considered normal That said, voting for a guy guilty of rape was never considered the norm lol
I think because Cornette has personal relationships with Patterson and McMahon. His viewpoint is skewed. Same thing if he was friends with Trump. The former lifelong Democrat
Damn, Jimmy. I still enjoy the podcast, but hope you're not too set in your ways to realize that defending Pat's blatant sexual assault is actually not okay. No one cares if that's "just how it is in the wrestling business". It's not okay. Honestly good on Brian Last for sticking with his stance.
Yeah its a way to gaslight people into thinking that cant take a joke. Like mf, you touching my penis and balls is not a joke just cause you say it is. But god forbid you react like any nromal person would, next thing you know you’re fired or made to be a jobber
I really can’t believe that Brian posted this unedited 😂. I’m sure there will be a “follow up” on the locker room comments. Jim can usually shake off a lot of things that he says. But I doubt this one is going away anytime soon. Love the shows but.. wow 😂
I’ve been in some locker rooms where guys would be showing surprise fruit baskets for a laugh. Especially to the people who freaked out about it. Oil checks were common but no we certainly didn’t grab each other’s schlongs lol
Can we work as hard as we all can to understand that this was normalized behaviour for every male locker room well into the 2000's? And I am not talking about pro wrestling locker rooms. I mean every junior high school out there folkes... Whether this wasn't happening to you directly or you didn't stay around long enough to see it is nobody's concern. This was normalized as playful behaviour, the same way some words out there were accepted. We're not trying to accept it in any way or working to have it back...but let's not clutch our pearls and pretend people joked about sexuality a lot more than they do these days.
@@TheBorkLaser Agreed. That’s the way it was. I’m 52 years old, so yes I remember how it was. My point was only to say that it is no longer that way. There are also high horses that Jim himself gets on now that he would have never said 25-35 years ago. And the other comment about him not being cancelled and won’t be.. nope he won’t. But I can guess he might lose a few listeners with delicate feelings. Brian leads this whole thing contrary to what people might think. I just thought it was odd that it was left in the show.
This is not the first time that Jim has defended Pat Patterson and will not be the last. His view and Bruce Pritchard's view on the claims about Patterson have always aligned. Basically "I don't believe anyone saying he did anything untoward. Grabbing penises in the locker room was something the boys used to do for fun back in the day and it's not inappropriate." It's a wild take, but it should surprise no one. A lot of guys will defend Pat Patterson to the death because they liked him personally and therefore he could do no wrong.
That’s what my issue with Jim has always been. He will give cover for people he likes for their bad behaviour, but if someone who disrespects wrestling commits the smallest infraction, he assassinates their character-like he did Sable. His morals seem to shift depending on the person.
@@mykoniichistorychannel Why are yall surprised, see his vid about Grizzly Smith aka Jake Robert's dad and the run around he was doing during that commentary
Jim is blinded by the “old ways” of wrestling sometimes .. I love the podcast but you can’t defend Pat Patterson even it was for “giggles” which I highly doubt it was ..
This isn't even about the "old ways" of wrestling. This is just about a weird toxic culture, that still exist in some corners. Jim when talking about wrestling and just wrestling, is typically spot on. Hell, when he talks about booking most of what he says applies to basic storytelling beyond wrestling. But as soon as you get him out of that wrestling bubble, man, he can be beyond clueless and even gross.
"We would have been looked upon in today's society as some of the worst human beings walking the face of the Earth. I mean, we abused the hell out of women. All of us did. You know, they were like a toy for us,"- Tony Atlas. Why are y’all getting up on a soapbox on Tony Atlas’ behalf?
@@thebigmanufacturer Tony Atlas has acknowledged his guilt, and apologised. Maybe that's the difference? Personally, I don't care, but that seems to be the difference.
@rupe82 I'm actually not completely against jim on that.i played alot of team sports in the 90s and 00s and alot of what he was saying was common place and not in a malicious way.the whole smacking a guys ass or whatever.there was never any undercurrent of anything sexual.we trained together,played on match day together,showered together,laughed together,cried together,fought together and with eachother.it was a brotherhood.its still the most fun I've ever been apart of.maybe I'm wrong on it but to quote jim from the video,"it didn't feel weird to me".
Crazy how Jim defends Pat patterson when there is a shoot interview from Roddy pieper talking about this situation and it was clearly not okay…you can see between the lines..most people can, come on now 🤦♂️
Marty jannetty has a similar story and Jim powers and brick house brown have both said they were alone in a room with Pat and he promised them bigger roles in the company while he started unzipping his pants if they played along.
@@FREESPIRITZUEZ not trying to defend Pat here, but didn't Roddy walk that back before he died. Or at least I remember him specifically saying it wasn't about what everyone thought it was. I just want to clarify in case the video I watched was Roddy's response to something else.
Brick house Brown says the same.. Everyone isn't making up the same story about the man.. I know Pat is a wrestling legend, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an evil man..
That shoot interview is evidently an internet outistes nightmare. Not only is Piper kayfabing half the time, he's clearly just reminiscing, nothing more.
You only got to watch Roddy Piper's interview to see the effects of Pat being a total nonce burger. I think Jim needs to rethink his views on this one.
I don’t believe that Pat was innocent. He was Garvin & Phillips direct supervisor. The three of them were referred to as “The Cream Team.” Multiple wrestlers are on record saying Pat sexually harassed them (Atlas, Piper, Sid, Roma). And Tom Cole, a ring boy, directly named Pat in his initial lawsuit and only walked it back when Linda manipulated him into it. Sorry Jim, you are dead wrong about Pat. And of course no one fought over it cuz like Atlas said, you tell Vince, you get fired.
I love Jim’s knowledge of the business but I heard stories about him. Apparently he let wrestlers sleep with his wife and he watched. Prichard also said his room was “red”
I will never understand that locker room sexual stuff. I disagree 100% with Jim and agree with Brian. I'm a huge Corny fan too, but he's dead wrong here. I was a high school track athlete and I was recruited to the football team my freshman year. I had heard stories about that kind of stuff in the locker rooms and away at football camp so I always refused to play football. Granted I'm now in my forties in a much healthier state probably for not playing high school football, that kind of stuff is so wrong and not necessary and weird.
Men do do that shit in locker rooms. I remember one or two dudes would try smacking asses if dudes were bent over doing something. It wasn't gay it was just locker room shananigans. I was never one for smacking people's asses but you could see it wasn't meant with any intentions.
Bingo. You could literally summerize that whole thing by going "Jim Cornette says sexual assault in the locker room is normal" and Brian Last saying "That doesn't mean its not assault, and thats weird af."
It is weird and it is wrong. Shouldn't happen to anyone, but it's also grouped in with more systemic and terrible stuff when it should be considered distinct. Ultimately, most of it is done as hazing, and there is a difference in severity to two athletes grabbing each other in the locker room then there is to other examples of SA and SE. There's no good way to look defending it, it shouldn't be defended, but it should be thought about differently. But Tony Atlas has a very good moment when he says "tell who? who was there to tell?" that did a good job at elaborating on it.
Patterson is dead now; his reputation will always be “gay guy involved in wrestling” so whatever is said or not about him will be seen through that lense. grabbing “peckers” and harrasing kids? cause he was gay. Was it only “playing” or “bullying”, but w/no further intentions? well, he was gay you know. His reputation is done, both ways
I’m 7 years older than Brian and 12 younger than Jim… I definitely come down as anti “grabbing random people’s junk in the locker room” for giggles. I wonder where the generational divide happened on locker room butt-thumbing. 🤔
It makes me laugh to hear all these stories about how tough wrestlers were in the day. As a man who grew up in the south during this era, I can assure you that if these guys tried this stuff in the outside world they would have been shot or stabbed fairly quickly. 99% of this stuff is bs.
Always been weirdo behavior. People just kept mouths shut and didnt get in others business yrs ago. also Corney wants to push all gay people good narrative.
@@Zeke_O3773 don't think there is a generational divide. I'm younger than Brian and there are goofs my age who would say it's fine now and people need to get over it. And there were people in Jim's time that said WTF?
I think the Pat Patterson and Tony Atlas discussion is a good example of how Jim is often one of the most liberal-minded people in any room until you start pointing a critical light at the wrestling business. Then he's suddenly a conservative and his defenses turn into variations of "well that's the way it was always done" and "no one seemed to complain about it", which aren't justifications for behavior that took place less than 100 years ago. We're not dealing with Classical Greece here. The moral standards against sexually assaulting people were well emplaced by the 20th century, if not yet well enforced. Good on Brian for not backing down. The best that can be said about that sort of behavior is that it was childish, and Jim has little grounds to criticize the infantile crap modern wrestlers do while he continues to defend those kinds of practices.
Why are you implying that conservatives are the ones who condone groping and sexual misconduct? It's conservatives who go beyond the law and unalive their wife/daughter/sister's SAers with a firearm while Liberals go and make defense pleas for the widdle innocent assaulter. That said, It's hard to judge social norms from half a decade+ ago, specially through modern lenses. I guarantee you that 1/2 the things you say and do will be looked on negatively by people a century from now.
💯. Jim has said, many times, that wrestling was made up of people who wouldn't fit in elsewhere, and this is one of those things that wouldn't fit in anywhere else (unlike a thumb in the ass, maybe). It would have been so easy to have said, "Yeah, it was a different time, but you're right, Brian - that time has passed and people SHOULDN'T be grabbing others' dicks without consent like that."
Jim doesn't mention the 16 year old Ring boy that said Pat told him he had to fool around with him to keep his job. That is is clearly shown on the documentary
Yeah, have to admit, don't agree with the Patterson defence here. Misguided from Cornette, which is unusual for someone who seems very smart. I think sometimes he's too blinded by the "old days" of wrestling. These comments might even come back to haunt him a bit.
It's a bad take but it's not really uncommon among these environments. People in the comments are saying it's because "weird people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere end up in the wrestling business" but this shit was commonplace in locker rooms for other sports, football particularly, and a lot of people who were part of those locker rooms ended up thinking that kind of shit was normal. Some didn't. But yes it's a very bad take and it's logically inconsistent for Jim to hold considering other opinions and politics of his.
If Roddy Piper was alive today, ask him about Pat Patterson and his behaviour towards really young guys in the lockerroom. Jim, you were friends with Sean Oliver, ask him what Piper said about Pat and what Pat did to him when he got in the business
Coronet forgot about the word horse play for some reason. Also the only reason why these guys became wrestlers is because they are f****** weird and there's no other place that would probably hire them ever
I finished it last night and Bruce Prichard said that he doesn't believe the crap Vince has done , because he gave his wife the best medical care to save her from Cancer smfh.
Remember what vince said. Different times, different values, different beliefs, different traditions etc. You can apply modern values etc into those times. Its the past is now history. We are supposed to learn from it and not let it repeat in our present and the future. 🙄 You lack a lot of sports and wrestling history. Back then a lot of weird and nasty shit were seen as normal. And thats it.
I think it's reasonable to say there is a difference between a gay man nonconsensually touching a straight man in the shower, and a gay man participating in systematic abuse of underage boys. This isn't to defend Patterson regarding anything that he might've done to Tony Atlas, but simply to say there's a difference between rape and pedophilia, and that should be highlighted to keep these real and fake scandals from intermingling more than they already have. Did Jim do that well, or with the appropriate nuance at all? No, and frankly, that disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. But I think it's important that we as the audience keep that in mind. We can defend Pat from ring boy allegations without defending him from whatever Tony was talking about.
Mike what do you mean way off? I know this is a shock to you so hold on to your britches. You didn't know Patterson personally. You have no right to say what is or isn't way off. That's my motto if you don't know someone personally just keep your mouth closed.
@@TheGreat_Kramer1 is it gay panic when pat was hitting on wrestlers or offering advancement if they do a favor for him? I’ve heard about this from OG wrestlers and looking back there was a lot of covering up imo.
Jim’s defence of Pat Patterson is when it becomes really tricky to defend Cornette from social backlash. Because if this was Donald Trump or someone he didn’t like, Jim would be, rightfully, all over them for it. But because it’s one of his friends suddenly it becomes okay? I get sticking up for your friends but there’s a clear line here.
It's different, i.e. not predatory etc, but same thing when he wouldn't comment on Flair's last match when everyone said how bad it was. I mean, you can be someone's friend and say you didn't like the match.
The documentary was a sham they clearly tried to bring in people they thought would stick by vince. Thank God for the likes of bret hart and tony atlas for being honest
Finished the whole Vince documentary. Nothing groundbreaking, it's already stuff most of us knew. It's cool to watch as a wrestling fan but it's just another history of the business piece.
I do agree that for us older fans we've heard all this stuff to death, but I will at least give them the credibility of using the Netflix twist to speak to new audiences
I was really disappointed in it. It was basically a brief history of WWE with a Dark Side of The Ring filter put on it, but only just barely, and barely any of it is actually about Vince.
Just because what Pat was doing wasn't as bad as the literal predators, didn't excuse Pat's behaviour and good on brian to stand his ground on that point.
It’s reminds me of that scene, from family guy when Brian and stewie, was in Germany getting a tour of the history, but, glossed over the whole Nazi stuff ignored it
Jim and Brian come from 2 different eras jims not condoning it but he came from a locker room were that was common they ribbed each other with anything Brian comes from an era were people have boundaries yea guys mess around slap each other on the ass but they should know when they're going too far
That time Pat secretly turned up at SMW and was waiting for Jim in the parking lot that night.. all Pat had to do was grab Jim's junk and he knew it was Pat. "OoOooh Pat! It's you!"
@MrJadePinwheel seems like Pat liked Chocolate and Caramel. Just ask Tony Atlas and Al Perez. Can't ask Brickhouse Brown R.I.P but he stated the same as Atlas in the past. I mean, Pat Patterson mixed it up by harassing Jim Powers, so maybe he just liked buffed-out mens.
Jim always seems to defend or rationalize the behavior of people he likes. Pat Patterson, Ric Flair, he downplayed the Tessa Blanchard stuff because he liked Tully. So typical of him.
It has been in the wrestling vernacular for a long time. Stooge was just a term used for a snitch, the guy that would report all of the locker room/ on the road hi jinx to the boss. This was often a road agent, but also could be one of the boys. George Steele was a confirmed stooge.
What in God's name is Cornette rambling about in his defense of Patterson? That sort of behavior in a locker room is completely unacceptable. It was just as unacceptable then as it is now. Everyone knows Patterson had young wrestlers doing him "favours". Cop on, Jim! When he comes out with ignorant, insensitive stuff like that, it makes you appreciate Russo's stance on him all the more.
Like, the stuff Jim is talking about here is just straight-up sexual assault. It's like, yeah, I sorta get the idea that pranks could escalate. Boundaries could be pushed. And the majority of people involved would just perceive it as rowdy good fun. But I'm extremely glad Jim got some pushback on this one. I like Jim, but holy shit is he just wrong here. I don't care how weird of a business you're in, or how normalized despicable behavior can become. Nobody should go to work and have to worry about being sodomized, groped, or essentially raped as a work prank. It's one of those things where if something this bad starts to seem normal, it's not time to accept it, it's time to throw the people involved out of the building, or even into a prison cell before it takes hold generationally.
@@watchitlive8460Actually, while watching this documentary, that’s what came to my mind. What a difficult industry to pursue. It seems to have twisted the minds of many of the people who worked in it. What’s normal to them is very different from what’s normal to many other people.
I didn't hear that the first time as I was listening in my car, but it's not just you. Thanks for pointing that out? (Not sure if I wanted to know that lol, but good catch anyway)
Jim: "Pat Patterson was totally innocent. Now let me tell you a bunch of examples of things he did that would have landed him in jail if we worked in any other industry." I have a feeling the reason that Pat was brought back was because he was an essential member of the company and Garvin and Phillips were not. It's like how Snuka got kept around after killing his girlfriend. He was one of their top draws. If Johnny Rodz killed someone they would have fired him and tipped off the cops.
Look. Pretty sure Jim was diddled with in the locker room. Probably had his stuff messed with to the point he thought it was just normal. He was a KID when he got in the buisness. This is talk from someone who was ABUSED. People. Chill and really listen to the man. This man was abused. Jim, im SO sorry for what you experienced even if you ended up thinking it was normal. Its not and this conversation speaks on your trauma and how much this has f'ed your head up. Everyone as a moment in life where they need to look in the mirror and face thins that have happened and i dont think Jims done that with this :/ Jim NEED to seek help cause its not okay to think its okay to put your finger up someone rectum to see if they would jump which is obviously a cop out excuse. OBVIOUSLY anyone would jump. They wanted to see if they could go further and further until they reach intercourse. Thats was grooming is. God this sucks to hear. I know from experience. no i wont elaborate.
Jim is from another time where this is considered horseplay so I understand him thinking people are just being over sensitive but at the same time just because it was considered ok back than doesn’t mean it was or ever will be ok and that’s what Jim is missing I know everyone is offended by everything nowadays but this is one of those things where it’s completely understandable to say this is wrong no matter the circumstances joking or not it’s still not cool so Brian is right I understand Jim’s perspective he’s from another age but that’s the point of evolving is learning from mistakes what is acceptable and what isn’t.
It still goes on today. Athletes who play hockey or baseball or football or basketball aren’t usually socially conscious or particularly concerned with etiquette or the feelings of teammates. And with pro wrestlers it’s probably worse. It’s an extremely close contact sport where you touch other guys bodies all over the place anyway. I’ve seen many body slams where the guy is definitely touching the other guys junk.
I can see him defending peer to peer horseplay. Pat was a boss and should've acted like a Boss. If Ron Simmons wants to Thumb Atlas, hey it's fair game. If it's a boss doing it, that's wrong.
Now yes but back then standard garbage. Sadly we still fight this behavior. But having heard stories from many wrestlers for decades, standard ribbing.
@@philburt781sounds like a massive issue that should be addressed and not looked past/ laughed of and you implying it's no big deal says all we need to know
@@ThePunk01 Just because something was more accepted doesn't mean it still wasn't wrong and sexual assault even at the time no matter your sexual orientation. Plus he's the second highest position in the company doing that to employees it's not okay now and it wasn't then either no matter how much people try to undermine it and laugh it off
Usually a fan of Cornette, but this is unfortunate evidence that he’ll defend EVERY aspect of wrestling in the old days, regardless of whether it’s good or bad
There is a term from my childhood that seems to fit here. Its called horseplay. It was used to refer to children playing rough with each other in a way they probably shouldn't and might even get them hurt. Jim's defense of Pat sounds like "Pat engaged in horse play because a lot of folks in the locker engaged in horseplay". Just incase you think this was unique to the wrestlers, no its not. AO Smith factory had a lot of "inappropriate horseplay" and I'm told from colleagues Milwaukee Sewer system used to have a lot of "inappropriate horseplay". It was a different time.
If Pat was a Trump supporter Jim would sing a different tune 100% 😂 I love Corny but he’s wrong here and a lot of other times in similar circumstances that involve people he’s friends with.
Jim is clearly uncomfortable re: Pat and is just dodging around/making jokes/deflecting… I hope there’s a follow up on this-there’s a lot more here that needs to be understood with what he’s saying are just locker room antics.
A side effect on the years of Jim being in the wrestling business is Stockholm Syndrome, normalization of locker room sodemy.
Yes. This is not a matter of most of us being too “sensitive” or melodramatic. I appreciate Brian standing firm on the fact that sexual assault and touching/groping someone’s private parts without consent, under ANY circumstances, is fucked up.
Corny just kept on burying himself further, the more he tried to get Brian to concede that it’s totally common and kosher if one of your bosses grabs your dick or digitally penetrates you, without your consent and with the power imbalance, and factoring how most men don’t report their assaults because of idiots who would mock and blame a man in a myriad of ways.
Gross. If sexual assault was really that normalized to Jim, my heart hurts thinking of all of the abuses against male and female talent we will never know about, and we already know quite a lot! Damn.
Jim being perfectly okay with casual sexual assault is not where I expected this conversation to go.
Jim: "I'm glad someone pointed out Pat didn't do anything wrong."
Proceeds to list off horrible things.
I don't agree with everything, Jim says, but I see what he is saying here. I have had relatives do the "checking oil" when I was younger. It was annoying, but it was sort of the norm. With Pat Patterson, I do believe Tony Atlas in this case, though. Also, sometimes people use joking to act their true intentions.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Jim took part in this. I heard he offered wrestlers to sleep with his wife.
Jim Cornette criticizes Trump for touching women but then defends Pat Patterson for sexual assault...levels of hypocrisy heretofore unknown. It's sexual assault Jim, in both cases.
Except he tells it like there was consent.
@jg3000 there is no except, Jim and Trump both making excuses for sexual assault.
@@Swordsmansmith87 I love how you people always leave out the "When you're famous they'll LET you do anything"... But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative...
@heinrichvonwicker168 who's you people? Pat Patterson and Trump, both sexual assault. Forget the words it was the actions. Of course I guess that works for Patterson too, he was Vince's right hand man so he looked the other way.
Not a Trump fan myself but, totally agree!
This episode is like your favorite grandpa saying some weird shit at the family reunion that has you questioning whether he should drive himself home or not.
I agree. At first, i thought he was ribbing, but then...
So fucking apt!!!!
Vince or Jim 😭
@@walkedoverwaterboth.. as soon as he started defending finger in the butt 😭 😭
Never let grandpa drive.
Round of applause for Brain standing his ground and not excusing weird fucking predatory behaviour
I respect Brian Last even more than I already did. He’s not going to concur with Jim because that would be the path of least resistance. He was firm and made it very clear, repeatedly, that that shit is absolutely not normal or okay or acceptable. I appreciate Brian so much for that.
He was definitely on the right side of the argument here
@@xvicious5150 Brian seemed genuinely alarmed by Jim’s reaction at first too. Im glad he didn’t let that shit slide.
I think the fact that people drawing a line between pats behaviour and the likes of Mel Phillips is common is telling.
Even Jim has cognitive biases. The way he vociferously defends it specifically in regards to Pat is strange. He couldn't think of any other examples of other people doing the behaviour regularly, only point out one offs, which is a different thing.
With Pat its clear he did the behaviour regularly and more than others.
That makes him creepy. You can't just draw an arbitrary line.
I now agree with Brian Last on two things: pizza and appropriate locker room behavior.
Jim defending Pat Patterson in this video ended up being more controversial than this entire documentary 😂😂😂
I am defending pat patterson ❤😤🫡
Well I defend Pat Patterson's role in WWE. However, behaving like a degenerate when you might be with people who don't respect it MIGHT ruffle some feathers.
Didn't he also defend Flair's sexual assault on the Plane JoyRide as well? He seems to be ok with Sexual Assault/Rape (He supports Biden who has a history of Rape (Tarah Reade))
Wasnt it alluded he did something to Piper?
@@exiaR2x78ua-cam.com/video/LYQawT9DyKw/v-deo.htmlsi=_kmIhvrOt7uAc3xa
Jim defended Pat harder than Bruce did Vince in the doc. lol
Why are yall surprised, see his about Grizzly Smith aka Jake Robert's dad and the Runa round he was doing there
💀🤣
@leelohaskin7941 Yet that pus Brian Last will completely pretend Jim or himself don't have some wild as takes. Yet, attempt to be critical of everyone else. Pretending to be morally superior
He'll defend anyone he likes .
@@leelohaskin7941 he didn't defend Grizzly Smith
Never mind Vince’s childhood, now I want to know about Jim’s childhood after that Patterson rant…😂
Man that was wild 😮😂
No shit. I thought he was doing some sad attempt at humor. I wouldn't have released this one.
It's boys locker room shenanigans. Very common back in the day. You'd see some guy stick his thumb up someone's ass in the locker room then hear that same guy calling someone a f*g later that day. It was a.... strange time..... lol
More wild @32:25 could swear jim starts to say brock lesnar got a finger up the *ss then trails off casually
@@sidewayssil5348 wtf...
I'm starting to think there is Stockholm syndrome in the wrestling business
Something is going on
It was a cult type thing back then. A carny hustle full of criminals & outsiders. With a form of omertà like the mob.
Or homosexual syndrome
The wrestling business isn't TOO unsimilar to a cult
💯💯💯 facts!
I'm glad Brian Last is here to point out to Jim Cornette that the things he was accustomed to in the locker room growing up was weird as fuck and never to be considered normal
Agreed but Jim’s point of view is valid too that was common place back then so while we were shocked he like yeah so what?
@@armandogomez2677 Just because its "common" doesn't mean its not assault.
@@armandogomez2677 There was a time when owning slaves was common but that doesn't make it morally acceptable
Don't join the military lol
@@LoudFlimzztimes change wasn't assault then simple as that people didn't think twice about it now its different if you're a kid born after 99 you simply dont get it and never will
Brian Last doing his best to make sure Cornette didn't cancel himself forreal this time. Shout out Brian Last.
Surprised they put this episode out . Jim comes across so bad
@@crypticfox6389 I can't disagree. I love Jim Cornette, that said, it was a rough few minutes when he started on that topic.
Jim's take on the locker room stuff just shows that if you spend enough time in a weird environment, the weirdness eventually becomes assumed normality to you.
And just for the record, everybody always jumps on the sexual stuff - but all that crap Mr. Fuji pulled with his "stiff ribs", for example, wasn't normal human behaviour either. The guy was a sadist. There's a reason why pro wrestling attracted so many people who couldn't function in regular society, not even for a month.
All of those ribbers seemed like really messed up people, ala Johnny Valentine who is famous or infamous for his ribs. Honestly, if it weren't for wrestling he probably would've ended up in prison somewhere. It's all just really shitty hazing and bullying, and in a lot of the cases it's just harassment and assaults. I don't like when Jim talks about his views on stuff like that cuz I really couldn't agree less with him, look at his comments about Flair and Dreamer after the Dark Side episode, and what's weird is that he was actually against them there. He is really old so I'm not surprised by any of this. Don't condone it ofc.
I’ll always remember the he story of Fuji cooking that man’s dog. And everyone looks back at him as the sweet old man working at a theater post retirement
Jim is known to have a weird side.
It's not supposed to be "normal". It's a different culture in the same way other countries have different cultures. There are accepted and expected behaviors in other cultures that could be illegal in most western cultures. There is more than just one style of human being. It's understandable not to understand that though. Hell, it still surprises me that soccer is the biggest sport in the world.
In Korea, guys would go around poking each other in the asshole with their fingers as a rib. "Dung-chee" is what they'd say. To be clear, I only saw this happen with clothes on but it was quite a common prank. Even kids would do it. The whole world is 'weird'.
Jim doing a great job of making Pat come off worse
And himself.
It got lost in translation, but he's right about the fact a poorly aged but not uncommon for the time locker room behavior shouldn't be enough to incriminate Pat as predator who was abusing his influence in the office.
Made the whole locker room look worse tbh 😂
@@KingGhidorah5464 There was a way to make that point without being as crass about it as Jim was here. He considered Pat a mentor and a friend so he came at it from a purely defensive standpoint which did neither Pat nor himself any favors.
@@KingGhidorah5464 and Brian is still right no matter the day its not normal or right lol.
Let’s be clear, Hogan-Idol-Ventura all ripped off “Superstar” Billy Graham
Scott steiner aswell..
So we got Billy Graham to blame for H.I.V. 😂😂
@@westsidera97 with all the needle sharing & blading wrestlers did, I was always surprised there wasn’t an HIV epidemic in wrestling in the 80s.
Agreed, he and Buddy Rogers are such source material.
What's odd about touching someone inappropriately in the shower?
A lot of things actually
And even back then, if that behavior went public, it would have ruined the reputation of the company. It would have had more to do with anti-gay sentiments than any kind of common decency, but that wouldn't change much.
@@hurgenflerg2133I can’t tell you how many times guys have reached for /slapped my junk or pinched my nips or slapped my @ss. In locker rooms and in the hallways at work and school. You seriously haven’t ever seen this? It’s constant with athletes and anywhere you find “bros”. I never participated in it and I think it’s blatantly homoerotic. But thats how it’s always been.
Yea wtf? How does Jim not know that it's totally NOT appropriate or even funny?
This is the same industry and time that thought crapping in someone's duffle bag and drugging unsuspecting people by spiking their drinks was "all in good fun" so it's not really surprising sexual assault would be in there. If they would have had a hot plate in the locker room it probably would have been "lol, scalding water to the face!"
@@rupe82he never seemed to me like the guy to do it to somebody but now im nervous. wtf
Thankyou for sticking up for victims of assault Brian. I’m grateful. Upset by Jim’s stance on it but despite being beloved, he was in those locker rooms and still excuses a lot of things that absolutely shouldn’t be excused by saying ‘we all did it’.
His lawyers for the Janel Grant case must have torn their hair out when he said the Rita Chatterton stuff didn't matter anyway because the statute had passed.
and im so happy they included that, thats VINCE. he’s going down and i cant wait.
@@rima7286nope after they produced The Love letter I thought wow Vince is actually innocent. Let me guess you're going to say Vince is a mind reader and forced her because he knew he would need a love letter LOL. She was not a child she's a 40 year old woman who knows how to say no and walk away from things. Y'all are letting your hatred for Vince McMahon blind you. It's ironic so many fans of a product hate the guy who made the product what it is.
@@shadycnetwork he made his daughter resign and sold the company, does that not go against everything you know about him? if im blinded by hate youre blinded by worship.
One thing I noticed about Vince while watching this is this way he has of blurting things out. He just says these kind of vile things and then sits there staring. For some reason it made me wonder if he’s furious that he finally got old. He wasn’t able to force old age into submission.
@@rima7286Nah, it's pretty clear Grant was dtf.
Imagine the exact same thing being attributed to Trump that he is attempting his bizarre defense of Pat.
That's one thing he never criticises Trump for (at least I haven't heard it).
He regularly defends people in situations like this. I somewhat agree with him but it depends on the circumstances.
Anyway there must be a reason he strongly defends stuff like this though.. he's definitely had a fruity past
@@Mark-eg2ydJim despises Trump and all Republicans. He has mentioned numerous times.
@Mark-eg2yd I'm sorry if I'm immature, but I use the word fruity, so anytime I see someone use fruity, I kinda laugh.
Also, I think of Stevie Ray calling Scott Steiner Fruit Booty LOL
@@Mark-eg2ydI agree with him in some instances. Some accusations are purely motivated by other incentives. But it sounds like the E was just rofe with bad shit.
Cornette review of the doc is more entertaining than Netflix doc, Netflix should just add Jim's follow up review of their doc.
Seriously, you want ratings?, hire Jim and Brian
@LobsterCucumber jim*
So true the doc was mostly boring
@@jlinn12So not. You guys are dipshits.
Started watching it and bailed it is for people who don't or didn't watch wrestling
I ain't re-watching an edited version of what I've seen already with Vince's version of events presented
They say the winner of war gets to write history but in Vince's case the criminal investigation and lawsuits may be writing his
The video was doing so good until the Pat’s Sexual behavior and Jim defending it. If Jim starts to blow up of Twitter/X for this. I think it’s safe to say, we are not defending him for this.
Yeah I can't get with Jim defending Pat either. I can imagine that if Ole Anderson or whoever else during the Crockett era groped him even if they were goofing around, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't like it and probably would be cursing them out the way he does Russo.
Ok not agreeing with Jim about Pat predatory behavior, but please nobody gives a fck about what the twitter says or not. Who do you think you are? Just write your take on the matter and that's it.
@@0elpollojuan0 why are you so piss about?
@@Monster_gamez-f4n Im not pissed. Im just saying that is stupid to think that twitter is relevant just because is twitter. What it could be relevant is an articulated opinion on the matter that makes sense.
@@0elpollojuan0 oh for sure. I brought up Twitter because in the past, Jim has been treading for nonsensical reasons. Although I don’t agree with Jim, he doesn’t care about a random person (such as myself) commenting on his video which he wouldn’t read nor respond. All in all, yes Twitter shouldn’t be taken seriously just like my comment.
Brian deserves the Last word on this Pat Patterson debate.
Jake Roberts has an interview on youtube where you can see he was clearly abused by Pat Patterson. Patterson abused his position of power in that company. Cornette is so far off the mark with this topic. The line, Tony was from a small town he hadn't been out much.what are you talking about Jim! Tony didn't deserve getting felt up by Patterson, Jake didn't deserve it, none of them deserved it but none of could speak up cause they'd be sacked from the job if they did.
People don't like what's being said about Pat Patterson and using the excuse "its bc he was gay..". Sexual Harassment is about power, gay or straight, he had power.
He just activated his power by repeatedly pulling his power from some young guy's crevasse.
@@skristianfgood one 👍🏽
You speaking the truth..
100%.
Boo hoo
Corny is off base on pat Patterson. Imagine a certain orange man had done that, it would be fuel to a fire (not a trump supporter, by the way)
This is Whataboutism.
Let's just say he's not on the right side of this conversation.
The fact that Cornette tries to justify sexual assault is disgusting. Kudos to Brian for calling him out.
Yeah idk why he was trying to defend that and says it was normal WTF Jim LMAO
it was uncouth but yeah, plenty of locker room pranks and hazing like that back then. You see it still on the news today so imagine back then when a lot of things were considered normal
That said, voting for a guy guilty of rape was never considered the norm lol
I think because Cornette has personal relationships with Patterson and McMahon. His viewpoint is skewed. Same thing if he was friends with Trump. The former lifelong Democrat
Damn, Jimmy. I still enjoy the podcast, but hope you're not too set in your ways to realize that defending Pat's blatant sexual assault is actually not okay. No one cares if that's "just how it is in the wrestling business". It's not okay. Honestly good on Brian Last for sticking with his stance.
@shilomurphy8289 you weren't there. You don't know better than Jim.
@@deepblue8143never played sports? Never stepped foot in a locker room? Ok keep your mouth shut till you do
@@deepblue8143you werent there either so screw you for defending a child molester
@@kylewicks6133 I agree with that.
Carnies gonna carn
It’s just a prank bro.
The prank in question: 👍🍑👀
Yeah its a way to gaslight people into thinking that cant take a joke. Like mf, you touching my penis and balls is not a joke just cause you say it is. But god forbid you react like any nromal person would, next thing you know you’re fired or made to be a jobber
Hell nah 😂
I bet Pat loved kancho.
I really can’t believe that Brian posted this unedited 😂. I’m sure there will be a “follow up” on the locker room comments. Jim can usually shake off a lot of things that he says. But I doubt this one is going away anytime soon. Love the shows but.. wow 😂
I’ve been in some locker rooms where guys would be showing surprise fruit baskets for a laugh. Especially to the people who freaked out about it. Oil checks were common but no we certainly didn’t grab each other’s schlongs lol
Can we work as hard as we all can to understand that this was normalized behaviour for every male locker room well into the 2000's?
And I am not talking about pro wrestling locker rooms. I mean every junior high school out there folkes...
Whether this wasn't happening to you directly or you didn't stay around long enough to see it is nobody's concern.
This was normalized as playful behaviour, the same way some words out there were accepted.
We're not trying to accept it in any way or working to have it back...but let's not clutch our pearls and pretend people joked about sexuality a lot more than they do these days.
Jim has avoided being cancelled many tines, this will be no exception!
@@TheBorkLaser Agreed. That’s the way it was. I’m 52 years old, so yes I remember how it was. My point was only to say that it is no longer that way. There are also high horses that Jim himself gets on now that he would have never said 25-35 years ago. And the other comment about him not being cancelled and won’t be.. nope he won’t. But I can guess he might lose a few listeners with delicate feelings. Brian leads this whole thing contrary to what people might think. I just thought it was odd that it was left in the show.
This is not the first time that Jim has defended Pat Patterson and will not be the last. His view and Bruce Pritchard's view on the claims about Patterson have always aligned. Basically "I don't believe anyone saying he did anything untoward. Grabbing penises in the locker room was something the boys used to do for fun back in the day and it's not inappropriate."
It's a wild take, but it should surprise no one. A lot of guys will defend Pat Patterson to the death because they liked him personally and therefore he could do no wrong.
@@justinsayswtf I CAN believe there was homoerotic hazing, but that doesn't make it ok
That’s what my issue with Jim has always been. He will give cover for people he likes for their bad behaviour, but if someone who disrespects wrestling commits the smallest infraction, he assassinates their character-like he did Sable. His morals seem to shift depending on the person.
@@mykoniichistorychannel Yea it fucking sucks, usually he has a decent moral compass on most things but that tirade entirely ruined this episode
@@mykoniichistorychannel Why are yall surprised, see his vid about Grizzly Smith aka Jake Robert's dad and the run around he was doing during that commentary
@@mykoniichistorychannelthat said, yeah his constantly picking on Sable is wild asf tho
Jim is blinded by the “old ways” of wrestling sometimes ..
I love the podcast but you can’t defend Pat Patterson even it was for “giggles” which I highly doubt it was ..
This isn't even about the "old ways" of wrestling. This is just about a weird toxic culture, that still exist in some corners.
Jim when talking about wrestling and just wrestling, is typically spot on. Hell, when he talks about booking most of what he says applies to basic storytelling beyond wrestling. But as soon as you get him out of that wrestling bubble, man, he can be beyond clueless and even gross.
"We would have been looked upon in today's society as some of the worst human beings walking the face of the Earth. I mean, we abused the hell out of women. All of us did. You know, they were like a toy for us,"- Tony Atlas. Why are y’all getting up on a soapbox on Tony Atlas’ behalf?
@@thebigmanufacturer It's not one of the other. Both are bad.
Meh.
@@thebigmanufacturer Tony Atlas has acknowledged his guilt, and apologised. Maybe that's the difference? Personally, I don't care, but that seems to be the difference.
I’m glad Brian didn’t defend that weirdo behavior Jim was talking about being “normal”
It's weird to most of us born after 1970.
I have no idea how Jim thinks it's acceptable. It's something that is going to be remembered and used against him.
@rupe82 I'm actually not completely against jim on that.i played alot of team sports in the 90s and 00s and alot of what he was saying was common place and not in a malicious way.the whole smacking a guys ass or whatever.there was never any undercurrent of anything sexual.we trained together,played on match day together,showered together,laughed together,cried together,fought together and with eachother.it was a brotherhood.its still the most fun I've ever been apart of.maybe I'm wrong on it but to quote jim from the video,"it didn't feel weird to me".
This clip will absolutely be used against Jim. It's the worst content he's ever posted even pre-Brian. For such a wordsmith he sounds so dumb.
@@stilettoswinger7404
Same. Not something I was apart of but not at all rare to see and it was always in jest.
Crazy how Jim defends Pat patterson when there is a shoot interview from Roddy pieper talking about this situation and it was clearly not okay…you can see between the lines..most people can, come on now 🤦♂️
Jim wishes it was him instead. He's definitely into some fruity stuff
Marty jannetty has a similar story and Jim powers and brick house brown have both said they were alone in a room with Pat and he promised them bigger roles in the company while he started unzipping his pants if they played along.
@@FREESPIRITZUEZ not trying to defend Pat here, but didn't Roddy walk that back before he died. Or at least I remember him specifically saying it wasn't about what everyone thought it was.
I just want to clarify in case the video I watched was Roddy's response to something else.
Brick house Brown says the same.. Everyone isn't making up the same story about the man..
I know Pat is a wrestling legend, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an evil man..
That shoot interview is evidently an internet outistes nightmare. Not only is Piper kayfabing half the time, he's clearly just reminiscing, nothing more.
You only got to watch Roddy Piper's interview to see the effects of Pat being a total nonce burger.
I think Jim needs to rethink his views on this one.
What is the name of this interview please.
@@craftarena8020just type in both their names
Except it's all iinterpretation and conjecture, because Piper didn't utter one straight sentence there.
@@craftarena8020he did a shoot with Kayfabe Commentaries. That has the Patterson stuff in it.
The kid in the video ...Cole ...he said Pat was definitely a diddler. Tony Atlas confirmed as does the video u mention.
I don’t believe that Pat was innocent. He was Garvin & Phillips direct supervisor. The three of them were referred to as “The Cream Team.” Multiple wrestlers are on record saying Pat sexually harassed them (Atlas, Piper, Sid, Roma). And Tom Cole, a ring boy, directly named Pat in his initial lawsuit and only walked it back when Linda manipulated him into it.
Sorry Jim, you are dead wrong about Pat. And of course no one fought over it cuz like Atlas said, you tell Vince, you get fired.
Corny is such a weirdo... not quite Vince level but ffs...
Yeah he's weird there's no denying that
I love Jim’s knowledge of the business but I heard stories about him.
Apparently he let wrestlers sleep with his wife and he watched. Prichard also said his room was “red”
He has ticks
I will never understand that locker room sexual stuff. I disagree 100% with Jim and agree with Brian. I'm a huge Corny fan too, but he's dead wrong here.
I was a high school track athlete and I was recruited to the football team my freshman year. I had heard stories about that kind of stuff in the locker rooms and away at football camp so I always refused to play football.
Granted I'm now in my forties in a much healthier state probably for not playing high school football, that kind of stuff is so wrong and not necessary and weird.
Men do do that shit in locker rooms. I remember one or two dudes would try smacking asses if dudes were bent over doing something. It wasn't gay it was just locker room shananigans. I was never one for smacking people's asses but you could see it wasn't meant with any intentions.
Bingo. You could literally summerize that whole thing by going "Jim Cornette says sexual assault in the locker room is normal" and Brian Last saying "That doesn't mean its not assault, and thats weird af."
I never showered on site and pretty much assumed towels would be removed and such.
It is weird and it is wrong. Shouldn't happen to anyone, but it's also grouped in with more systemic and terrible stuff when it should be considered distinct. Ultimately, most of it is done as hazing, and there is a difference in severity to two athletes grabbing each other in the locker room then there is to other examples of SA and SE. There's no good way to look defending it, it shouldn't be defended, but it should be thought about differently. But Tony Atlas has a very good moment when he says "tell who? who was there to tell?" that did a good job at elaborating on it.
@@DavidJe-nm2vxno care about your opinion
Replace Paterson with trump and Jim would be preaching from the mountain how bad it was
Brian's parents risked possible kidnapping of their children to avoid having to watch No Holds Barred. 😅😅😂
Saying that Pat is innocent of sexual assault because Vince brought him back does not help Pat's reputation in the least
Patterson is dead now; his reputation will always be “gay guy involved in wrestling” so whatever is said or not about him will be seen through that lense.
grabbing “peckers” and harrasing kids? cause he was gay.
Was it only “playing” or “bullying”, but w/no further intentions? well, he was gay you know.
His reputation is done, both ways
I’m 7 years older than Brian and 12 younger than Jim… I definitely come down as anti “grabbing random people’s junk in the locker room” for giggles.
I wonder where the generational divide happened on locker room butt-thumbing. 🤔
It makes me laugh to hear all these stories about how tough wrestlers were in the day. As a man who grew up in the south during this era, I can assure you that if these guys tried this stuff in the outside world they would have been shot or stabbed fairly quickly. 99% of this stuff is bs.
Always been weirdo behavior. People just kept mouths shut and didnt get in others business yrs ago. also Corney wants to push all gay people good narrative.
@@27MOJOKINGShow business (including wrestling) has always had warped values.
@@Zeke_O3773 don't think there is a generational divide. I'm younger than Brian and there are goofs my age who would say it's fine now and people need to get over it. And there were people in Jim's time that said WTF?
Lotta repression out there
I dont think Jim hears how this is sounding.
Not good
He did say Curt Henning and Tom Billington were hilarious ribbers. Looking back on those stories that's just terrifying man....
What do you mean? That’s his lived experience and I saw much of the same growing up. Athletes in any team sport are weird af.
@@BB-ed4om That doesn't make it right. It's still sick behavior.
31:29 you’re wrong about this one Jim. It’s weird that you’re defending it. Stop.
Brian Last a real life wrestling historian he remembers everything.
He got one line in the documentary, episode 5 I think. I remember hearing him and Cornette's voice exactly one time each.
it’s amazing
I think the Pat Patterson and Tony Atlas discussion is a good example of how Jim is often one of the most liberal-minded people in any room until you start pointing a critical light at the wrestling business. Then he's suddenly a conservative and his defenses turn into variations of "well that's the way it was always done" and "no one seemed to complain about it", which aren't justifications for behavior that took place less than 100 years ago. We're not dealing with Classical Greece here. The moral standards against sexually assaulting people were well emplaced by the 20th century, if not yet well enforced. Good on Brian for not backing down. The best that can be said about that sort of behavior is that it was childish, and Jim has little grounds to criticize the infantile crap modern wrestlers do while he continues to defend those kinds of practices.
Jim defends the backstage carny nonsense every chance he gets whether it's the wrestler's court or Patterson fondling wrestlers in the shower.
He's more mad that wrestlers are playing video games then sexually assaulting coworkers for shits and giggles
Yep. I think he had to develop some kind of selective thinking to live in that business. It's not as if abuse wasn't rampant in wrestling.
Why are you implying that conservatives are the ones who condone groping and sexual misconduct?
It's conservatives who go beyond the law and unalive their wife/daughter/sister's SAers with a firearm while Liberals go and make defense pleas for the widdle innocent assaulter.
That said, It's hard to judge social norms from half a decade+ ago, specially through modern lenses. I guarantee you that 1/2 the things you say and do will be looked on negatively by people a century from now.
💯. Jim has said, many times, that wrestling was made up of people who wouldn't fit in elsewhere, and this is one of those things that wouldn't fit in anywhere else (unlike a thumb in the ass, maybe). It would have been so easy to have said, "Yeah, it was a different time, but you're right, Brian - that time has passed and people SHOULDN'T be grabbing others' dicks without consent like that."
Jim doesn't mention the 16 year old Ring boy that said Pat told him he had to fool around with him to keep his job. That is is clearly shown on the documentary
I almost passed out laughing at the "weird sneak attack" comment.😆
Came to the comments dying 😂
i think tony atlas would have been the only talking head to pass a lie detector test while being interviewed for the doc
Or the “sniff” test 😂
It's amazing that Vince made him just a dumb old man laughing 15 years ago on ECW and now Tony is just spitting fire
Which is ironic since he lies as well 😂
Hogan as a rat 😂
Bruh, these pat takes will not age well. Not a good look.
So playing video games bad but harassing others is fine
I don't remember him defending Grizzly Smith.
Go back to that episode and listen. He never defended Grizzly Smith.
@@Loe_JistSeriously. Like not even a little bit.
@Loe_Jist my apologies I'll fix my comment
Yeah, have to admit, don't agree with the Patterson defence here. Misguided from Cornette, which is unusual for someone who seems very smart. I think sometimes he's too blinded by the "old days" of wrestling.
These comments might even come back to haunt him a bit.
I was thinking the same thing.. may not be a good thing for corny
It's a bad take but it's not really uncommon among these environments. People in the comments are saying it's because "weird people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere end up in the wrestling business" but this shit was commonplace in locker rooms for other sports, football particularly, and a lot of people who were part of those locker rooms ended up thinking that kind of shit was normal. Some didn't. But yes it's a very bad take and it's logically inconsistent for Jim to hold considering other opinions and politics of his.
If Roddy Piper was alive today, ask him about Pat Patterson and his behaviour towards really young guys in the lockerroom. Jim, you were friends with Sean Oliver, ask him what Piper said about Pat and what Pat did to him when he got in the business
Coronet forgot about the word horse play for some reason. Also the only reason why these guys became wrestlers is because they are f****** weird and there's no other place that would probably hire them ever
I finished it last night and Bruce Prichard said that he doesn't believe the crap Vince has done , because he gave his wife the best medical care to save her from Cancer smfh.
I don't think that he doesn't believe it. He doesn't care.
defending sexual assault is such a wild take, Jim.
When you’ve participated yourself…
Jim defending Pat Patterson doing backstage what Kenny Omega does in the ring... interesting....
I thought the same thing. That was a bizarre defense by Jim
It's not that interesting. Patterson doing it backstage away from the audience and Kenny doing it on air for all to see are entirely different things.
The Patterson thing is what Cornette thinks is a rib between the boys backstage. Omega shoved his hand up asses on camera as part of the art form.
That was the first thing that came to my mind
Remember what vince said.
Different times, different values, different beliefs, different traditions etc.
You can apply modern values etc into those times.
Its the past is now history. We are supposed to learn from it and not let it repeat in our present and the future.
🙄 You lack a lot of sports and wrestling history. Back then a lot of weird and nasty shit were seen as normal. And thats it.
It's crazy to me that the people complain about young people being gay now, were actually even gayer😂
Who complains about what?
@@BB-ed4omJim constantly makes fun of Kenny omega for being sexual and gay
@@BB-ed4omwhat about Mario 💀🤣😭
I've been more excited to hear Jim's reviews of the documentary then I was to watch the actual documentary. 😂
Defending someone groping people in the showers is the funniest thing Jim has ever done
Jesus Jim, the defence of Patterson is WAY off
I think it's reasonable to say there is a difference between a gay man nonconsensually touching a straight man in the shower, and a gay man participating in systematic abuse of underage boys. This isn't to defend Patterson regarding anything that he might've done to Tony Atlas, but simply to say there's a difference between rape and pedophilia, and that should be highlighted to keep these real and fake scandals from intermingling more than they already have. Did Jim do that well, or with the appropriate nuance at all? No, and frankly, that disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. But I think it's important that we as the audience keep that in mind. We can defend Pat from ring boy allegations without defending him from whatever Tony was talking about.
Mike what do you mean way off? I know this is a shock to you so hold on to your britches. You didn't know Patterson personally. You have no right to say what is or isn't way off. That's my motto if you don't know someone personally just keep your mouth closed.
@@shadycnetwork why? fuck patterson.
defending sexual assault as a "joke"
He'll defend anyone he considers a friend no matter how guilty they are...unless it's about politics.
The defense of Pat Patterson is weird.
Yeah, he's gone off the fucking rails. I know he took some bumps. Maybe CTE brain.
It was a weird time. Gay panic was still a legal defense for killing someone.
I think they defend him so bad cause if they didn’t their might be more lawsuits involving sexual assault from
The men now.
@@TheGreat_Kramer1 is it gay panic when pat was hitting on wrestlers or offering advancement if they do a favor for him? I’ve heard about this from OG wrestlers and looking back there was a lot of covering up imo.
Ring boys @@rikflare7970
Jim’s defence of Pat Patterson is when it becomes really tricky to defend Cornette from social backlash. Because if this was Donald Trump or someone he didn’t like, Jim would be, rightfully, all over them for it. But because it’s one of his friends suddenly it becomes okay? I get sticking up for your friends but there’s a clear line here.
It's different, i.e. not predatory etc, but same thing when he wouldn't comment on Flair's last match when everyone said how bad it was. I mean, you can be someone's friend and say you didn't like the match.
what do you expect..... he's a fucking liberal
The documentary was a sham they clearly tried to bring in people they thought would stick by vince. Thank God for the likes of bret hart and tony atlas for being honest
I almost blew snot in my eggs when Jim said Cheif Jay Strongbow might check your oil 😂😂😂
Nice visual 😢
He said it twice! 😂😂😂
15:23 “Where would he do it.” 😂😂😂😂
Finished the whole Vince documentary. Nothing groundbreaking, it's already stuff most of us knew. It's cool to watch as a wrestling fan but it's just another history of the business piece.
I do agree that for us older fans we've heard all this stuff to death, but I will at least give them the credibility of using the Netflix twist to speak to new audiences
I was really disappointed in it. It was basically a brief history of WWE with a Dark Side of The Ring filter put on it, but only just barely, and barely any of it is actually about Vince.
They should have went deeper into his childhood..
Not necessarily for us wrestling fans. Its to introduce a new audience to the depraved Mr McMahon
@@totallybored5526I should have read the replies before I commented you already summed it up perfectly.
“Well boys all the beer and pills are gone so who wants their oil checked?”
Just because what Pat was doing wasn't as bad as the literal predators, didn't excuse Pat's behaviour and good on brian to stand his ground on that point.
Tony Atlas reminds me of the no filter uncle who doesn't give a damn. He's been hilarious😂
Best part of the doc hands down
I played high school football and there was a little bit of that in the locker room and I thought it was stupid and juvenile and gross.
It’s reminds me of that scene, from family guy when Brian and stewie, was in Germany getting a tour of the history, but, glossed over the whole Nazi stuff ignored it
Jim and Brian come from 2 different eras jims not condoning it but he came from a locker room were that was common they ribbed each other with anything Brian comes from an era were people have boundaries yea guys mess around slap each other on the ass but they should know when they're going too far
I wonder how many times Pat grabbed Jim’s little tic tac.
That time Pat secretly turned up at SMW and was waiting for Jim in the parking lot that night.. all Pat had to do was grab Jim's junk and he knew it was Pat. "OoOooh Pat! It's you!"
I remember when I first started working at my job in 1998. I heard rumors of my boss doing that crap. I was like wtf. Luckily I never seen it happen.
None, since he never had any muscle
@MrJadePinwheel seems like Pat liked Chocolate and Caramel. Just ask Tony Atlas and Al Perez. Can't ask Brickhouse Brown R.I.P but he stated the same as Atlas in the past. I mean, Pat Patterson mixed it up by harassing Jim Powers, so maybe he just liked buffed-out mens.
Pat liked men, not Mama's Boys.
'the episode where Jim learns about sexual assault'. 😂
Tony Atlas “ I didn’t like Patterson because he kept touching my ______ !” 😂😂😂
Ask Pipper, what Paterson was doing with the ring crew......... 🤢🤮.
The cream team 🤮
Jim always seems to defend or rationalize the behavior of people he likes. Pat Patterson, Ric Flair, he downplayed the Tessa Blanchard stuff because he liked Tully. So typical of him.
Everyone does that
@@natediaz1863 defends pedophiles, sexual abusers and racists? No, not everybody.
I thought he did it with Vince A LOT, especially given that Vince largely destroyed pro wrestling as Jim sees it should be.
Most people do that. Lol
I can just imagine Brian getting stoned later that night, thinking about Jim’s wild comments 😂
Appreciate Brian not letting that "locker room culture" shit slide.
This is the first time I've ever actually been offended by anything Jim's ever said.
Yep. I am still stunned hours later. I even listened back when Alice was on it.
@Christoffski exactly the same with me man.
Have yall ever called anyone here a snowflake for saying they were offended? It’s kinda funny lol
@@Smurffitness not over fucking SA I haven't. Maybe about some bullshit wrestling opinion. But not this shit.
@@Smurffitness About many things, but not this. Nah.
It amazes me how sexual assault against men is almost always given a pass.
I've never heard or will probably never hear the term "stooged" again, except when hogan stooged out ventura to vince
It has been in the wrestling vernacular for a long time. Stooge was just a term used for a snitch, the guy that would report all of the locker room/ on the road hi jinx to the boss. This was often a road agent, but also could be one of the boys. George Steele was a confirmed stooge.
What in God's name is Cornette rambling about in his defense of Patterson? That sort of behavior in a locker room is completely unacceptable. It was just as unacceptable then as it is now. Everyone knows Patterson had young wrestlers doing him "favours". Cop on, Jim!
When he comes out with ignorant, insensitive stuff like that, it makes you appreciate Russo's stance on him all the more.
Like, the stuff Jim is talking about here is just straight-up sexual assault. It's like, yeah, I sorta get the idea that pranks could escalate. Boundaries could be pushed. And the majority of people involved would just perceive it as rowdy good fun.
But I'm extremely glad Jim got some pushback on this one. I like Jim, but holy shit is he just wrong here.
I don't care how weird of a business you're in, or how normalized despicable behavior can become. Nobody should go to work and have to worry about being sodomized, groped, or essentially raped as a work prank.
It's one of those things where if something this bad starts to seem normal, it's not time to accept it, it's time to throw the people involved out of the building, or even into a prison cell before it takes hold generationally.
If Pat Patterson would have touch me in the locker room he would have passed away sooner
This confirms some things about James that I had thought many times. But HE's the picture of morality.... oooooookay.
Jim defended many sexual miss conduct over the years... many times undermining wrestlers with underage rats also... not sure I like that about him.
There weren't a lot of good people in this business, that's for sure.
You just know Jim got his share of that underage rats as well, knowingly or not
@@watchitlive8460Actually, while watching this documentary, that’s what came to my mind. What a difficult industry to pursue. It seems to have twisted the minds of many of the people who worked in it. What’s normal to them is very different from what’s normal to many other people.
You aren't sure?
Welcome to fame and fortune. It's the same for them all, regardless of their industry.
People are so fiercely loyal to Pat Patterson because he was a beloved friend and figure in the history. Not shocked that Corny is on Pat's side
He was also the #2 person in the company from 1982 until the mid-90s and even after was basically protected
Jim can thank his lucky stars they didnt interview him for episode 2. That would have gone over like a lead balloon.
28:32 BEST PART 😂😂😂😭😭
Jim defending Pat is crazyyy 💀
@32:25 Did Jim start to say brock lesnar was the last person to get a thumb up the *ss then trailed off to the next sentence or is that just me
I didn't hear that the first time as I was listening in my car, but it's not just you. Thanks for pointing that out? (Not sure if I wanted to know that lol, but good catch anyway)
@@vanhagar3000 usually listen going to sleep and had to double take i didn't hallucinate that shit 😂😅
Lmao 😂😂😂
I heard Brock Lesnar
There are three certainties in life: Death, taxes, and Brian apologizing for background noises that no one else ever hears
Wow. Corny really dug himself into a hole with all the grabbing talk...
Jim: "Pat Patterson was totally innocent. Now let me tell you a bunch of examples of things he did that would have landed him in jail if we worked in any other industry." I have a feeling the reason that Pat was brought back was because he was an essential member of the company and Garvin and Phillips were not. It's like how Snuka got kept around after killing his girlfriend. He was one of their top draws. If Johnny Rodz killed someone they would have fired him and tipped off the cops.
it wasn't until a few years ago that I learned what the terry Garvin school was.
Look.
Pretty sure Jim was diddled with in the locker room. Probably had his stuff messed with to the point he thought it was just normal. He was a KID when he got in the buisness. This is talk from someone who was ABUSED.
People. Chill and really listen to the man. This man was abused.
Jim, im SO sorry for what you experienced even if you ended up thinking it was normal. Its not and this conversation speaks on your trauma and how much this has f'ed your head up. Everyone as a moment in life where they need to look in the mirror and face thins that have happened and i dont think Jims done that with this :/
Jim NEED to seek help cause its not okay to think its okay to put your finger up someone rectum to see if they would jump which is obviously a cop out excuse. OBVIOUSLY anyone would jump. They wanted to see if they could go further and further until they reach intercourse. Thats was grooming is.
God this sucks to hear. I know from experience. no i wont elaborate.
Jim is from another time where this is considered horseplay so I understand him thinking people are just being over sensitive but at the same time just because it was considered ok back than doesn’t mean it was or ever will be ok and that’s what Jim is missing I know everyone is offended by everything nowadays but this is one of those things where it’s completely understandable to say this is wrong no matter the circumstances joking or not it’s still not cool so Brian is right I understand Jim’s perspective he’s from another age but that’s the point of evolving is learning from mistakes what is acceptable and what isn’t.
It still goes on today. Athletes who play hockey or baseball or football or basketball aren’t usually socially conscious or particularly concerned with etiquette or the feelings of teammates. And with pro wrestlers it’s probably worse. It’s an extremely close contact sport where you touch other guys bodies all over the place anyway. I’ve seen many body slams where the guy is definitely touching the other guys junk.
I can see him defending peer to peer horseplay. Pat was a boss and should've acted like a Boss. If Ron Simmons wants to Thumb Atlas, hey it's fair game. If it's a boss doing it, that's wrong.
Bad take on Pat Patterson from Jim. Going around yanking on other dude's hogs is not "silly locker room behavior." It's pretty damn weird.
They do worse in junior hockey locker rooms. Chill out.
Now yes but back then standard garbage. Sadly we still fight this behavior. But having heard stories from many wrestlers for decades, standard ribbing.
@@philburt781sounds like a massive issue that should be addressed and not looked past/ laughed of and you implying it's no big deal says all we need to know
@@MetalHead4Life94It is, but it was also very common. It wasn't just Pat doing that. He is only getting called out because he was gay
@@ThePunk01 Just because something was more accepted doesn't mean it still wasn't wrong and sexual assault even at the time no matter your sexual orientation. Plus he's the second highest position in the company doing that to employees it's not okay now and it wasn't then either no matter how much people try to undermine it and laugh it off
Usually a fan of Cornette, but this is unfortunate evidence that he’ll defend EVERY aspect of wrestling in the old days, regardless of whether it’s good or bad
There is a term from my childhood that seems to fit here. Its called horseplay. It was used to refer to children playing rough with each other in a way they probably shouldn't and might even get them hurt. Jim's defense of Pat sounds like "Pat engaged in horse play because a lot of folks in the locker engaged in horseplay". Just incase you think this was unique to the wrestlers, no its not. AO Smith factory had a lot of "inappropriate horseplay" and I'm told from colleagues Milwaukee Sewer system used to have a lot of "inappropriate horseplay". It was a different time.
If Pat was a Trump supporter Jim would sing a different tune 100% 😂 I love Corny but he’s wrong here and a lot of other times in similar circumstances that involve people he’s friends with.
He is a "supporter" of the Jewish con man
Jim is clearly uncomfortable re: Pat and is just dodging around/making jokes/deflecting… I hope there’s a follow up on this-there’s a lot more here that needs to be understood with what he’s saying are just locker room antics.
Im usually all for Cornette but damn. It not cool to grab someone. Like really dude. Hazing or not. Still not right
Glad to see Brian Last actively calling out Jim Cornette on his tacit endorsement of sexual assault in a pro wrestling locker room. WTAF.
I loved Iraqi sympathizer Sgt.Slaughter. That promo he cut at WM 7 was one of my favorite promos.