I graduated BYU in 2000 and I loved my time there. I gained my testimony in that environment. Even back then I remember professors, specifically in the religion department and biology department, who stated there were wolves in sheep’s clothing throughout the university who sought to undermine the spiritual mission of the university. This appears to still be the case and possibly even worse. But, the opportunity to choose good over evil is still there to choose. The students who are truly searching and are truly good will have eyes to see and ears to hear and will rise above the increasing evil around them. Let’s pray for them and all the good professors there to be strengthened and shielded and to fight the good fight against the ever increasing evil around them.
Here is my summation of how many members of the Church feel. It would be nice if, when we go to defend the faith, we didn't find that our leaders have intentionally or inadvertently given weapons against us to our attackers in the form of statements designed more to not offend than to state eternal truth accurately and precisely.
People can accept the changes if they are based on true revelation, and love, and true discipleship of the savior. BUT, people are extremely wary and distrustful of changes that feel coerced, compelled, and forced upon us. And it feels like too many of these new changes are being brought in through under the table sneaky means, where there's no preparation, no directness, and just.... surprise.
I agree. I feel like the leaders are more concerned with what the world will think about the church leaving the faithful dedicated members to deal with the sad feelings of thinking that we who served and endured are left. I feel abandoned.
@@anademoura4724 President Nelson told us in April 2019 Saturday night session were to prepare to receive revelation, which without we would not spiritually survive what was coming. When he gave that talk I heard "you will not be able to follow what is being directed from the pulpit, so be prepared to know what is from God and what is not" What I heard is not in the talk, or transcript, because I kept going back to find it. I can only surmise it was revelation I was given during that talk. It prepared me to feel confident in leading my family into saying no to complying to anything in 2020 and on. My adult children also felt inspired to say no, two of which were career military officers who lost their jobs, insurance and pensions. I believe what you are tuned into is the quickening of desperation which is blanketing the world in darkness and despair. This is coming from Satan's desire to force his plan onto us to prove he's been correct, we will be happier with nothing. In early 2020 I felt something different than despair, I felt a vibrating excitement throughout my entire body. The feeling lasted over a week so I asked Heavenly Father what I was feeling. The answer I received was "Everything promised is coming to pass". I knew then I was feeling was stemming from deep inside the Earth, her soul was vibrating with excitement the Lord was returning soon, to cleanse her from the darkness and pain. I have felt the darkness and despair, I asked to be able to feel the excitement again. My answer was "No. It is for you to remember and hold onto" We are experiencing the prophecy given in D&C 87. In which the righteous are instructed/commanded to stand in holy places and be not moved.
I teach at an English-medium university in a non-Western country. I regard my teaching as a secular ministry. That is, every day, I seek to minister to the students as Jesus would do in a secular context. After a few weeks of skepticism, they begin to respond because they feel, without my ever saying it, that the driving force behind my teaching is the love of Christ. This is the gospel foundation for all teaching.
"Our attitude towards The Family Proclamation is one of this generation's tests." -Pres. Oaks.. Our youngest daughter and myself were shamed by peers and parents because she didn't make it into BYU. She never wanted to go there! That was a huge display of pride that we had not been keenly aware of. So many of her peers that ended up in BYU have fallen away from the church. That is a huge display of pride. The BYU professors that are not willing to consider the bigger picture and continue the teachings of man, is a huge display of pride. There is one group that is openly displaying pride. I tend to believe that pride has squeezed itself in parts of leadership as well. How does the world view us? My daughter, husband, friends, and associates are asking why is the church doing this or that? They want an anchor!! The sad part is our anchor is being pulled up. That was my favorite part of Pres. Hinckley's interview with Mike Wallace. The Gospel is an anchor for the shiftings of this world. Losing the anchor isn't going to help with missionary efforts either. These are the last days and I think we are at the last part of The Proclamation. ""We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets." The Lord is performing His strange acts. The Lord sees where our hearts are going. You want your anchor pulled up? Okay, you've been warned. The dividing,, the tests, and we wait.
From the D&C Section 10: 10 And, behold, aSatan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands. (In this case, documents signed instead of translated, but still fits). 11 And behold, I say unto you, that because they have altered the words (& intents of their hearts), they read contrary from that which you translated and caused to be written (agreed); 12 And, on this wise, the devil has sought to lay a cunning plan (trap!) , that he may destroy this work; 13 For he hath put into their hearts to do this, that by lying they may say they have caught you in the words ...
Precisely what makes President Nelson's admonition so relevant! "In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost." Many have based their faith and testimony on the goodness of leaders of the church, or of the good the church does in the world. People and organizations will ultimately disappoint us. Yes we should "follow the prophet" and sustain the church leaders: However, Faith in our Savior Jesus Christ and inspiration through the Holy Ghost are the only truly reliable anchors!
I had a nonmember friend who told me about this recent news and he was surprised and disappointed by it. He felt very let down. I started trying to find more information about all of this so that I could work it through with him. I’ve watched and have then directed him to your podcasts and we’ve had some great conversations. Thank you so much for helping us process this. This is another great podcast on the subject, and I want to thank you and Ralph Hancock for discussing this together. His experience and knowledge on this gave so much insight and understanding. I did not think I would ever live to see this time, but here we all are. We were born for this time. I pray we will not get distracted by the voices that speak untruths. As Hancock spoke of two truths, we need to hold fast to the spiritual truths. I have definitely felt lately that I must really work on my spiritual self by diligently praying and studying scriptures; taking time to be aware of the Holy Ghost and acting on inspiration, as well as following the Prophet and praying to receive(and follow) personal revelation. Thank you, thank you Greg and Ralph.
I had exactly that also. I've had 2 friends ask me what we believed because of the statement. I tried to explain the church's message which to me makes NO sense. One was very disappointed and one friend, more on the left, head no opinion but just wanted to know. The decision to put this out makes me sick at my stomach.
I am not well versed in philosophy, if at all. Greg, I enjoy your interviews, even though I don't understand all of the nuances of the conversation. I had an individual call me out of the blue, whom I knew only remotely, to inquire if I was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I affirmed that I was. He is anticipating becoming a member of the Church, but had learned of this announcement. He asked me if the Church leaders were going to start preforming gay wedding ceremonies. He said if that was the case that it was a deal-breaker for him. I had read a couple headlines regarding the Church's stance on same-sex marriage but wasn't informed enough to take this prospective member down the wrong path. The fact that he'd caught me checking out at the grocery store and requiring some clerk assistance in that very moment, didn't help the situation. I explained that to my knowledge, the Church was not going to perform gay marriages. What I did manage to do was to look up the number of my Stake President and suggested that he call him for further clarification. When I got home, I watched your podcast on this very subject and thought of sharing that with him. I didn't go through with that as I felt prompted to leave it in the Stake President's hands. I have a problem navigating all of these twists & turns that have been wound around our answers. I feel that we are weaving a rope with which to hang ourselves. One of the reasons that I joined the Church in 1976, as a convert, was the gospel's simplicity. That seems to have been taken away in some regard. I once looked up the phrase, "hate the sin but love the sinner." It claimed that the phrase was never really attributed to anyone. But isn't that what the brethren are teaching us, to love the sinner but don't condone their sins?
I had a Christian neighbor tell me about the 'news' too....her words were "Mormons have gone super woke. They support gay marriage now." It is very difficult to navigate the conversation when people read headlines and don't understand doctrine of our church.
Professor Hancock is a modern day light in the descending darkness. He is a great example of speaking up when things are not going well , or processes and political based decisions are in conflict with core doctrine. Agency was and is being fought for even within our secular religious surroundings and directions. Great discussion. Thank you
I remember distinctly a lecture by professor James H. Polve on the three laws of thermodynamics (in my thermodynamics 1 course). He combined gospel methodology in teaching that the second law indicates that while disorder increase in the system from a spontaneous process as a result of this law, a greater eternal power would need to intervene at some stage to organize the chaos and hearkened us to what we are taught in the temple. Used quotes from JS and Elder Pratt. I cannot recall exactly all three laws of thermodynamics, but I realized this was the blessing of having what you refer to as the gospel methodology included in his teaching. This combining of telos and logos has always been a hallmark of gospel methodology in my view, with the understanding of things more eternal and not just temporal or physical.
Professor Polve was pure legend in The Department of Mechanical Engineering. His contribution to the intellect of students he taught must go on for ages. Unfortunately he left just before I came.
Greg, I wanted to thank you for your platform! I really appreciate these "insider" interviews!! To be able to listen to candid perspectives of people who are close to the situation is very valuable and instructive!! Please keep these "insider" interviews coming!! Thanks you!
It was well put. I am perplexed at the number of comments I've heard in gospel doctrine or in sacrament talks misunderstanding President Nelson, and the members advocating staying silent on issues such as defending the family in order to avoid contention.
There is a distinction between conflict and contention. Conflict is inevitable where opposing ideas are important enough to debate. "There must needs be opposition in all things." Contention arises when pride is the motivation. "...he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention."
I listened to this entire conversation while working out (valid multi-tasking 😉). I thought of this quote from Neal A. Maxwell, who could run circles around most academics. I've used it often, including in interviews like this. "Satan need not get everyone to be like Cain or Judas, though he relishes such dramatic "success." He needs only to get able men [and women] like Pilate or Agrippa to see themselves as sophisticated neutrals." (Deposition of a Disciple (1976), 88)
Unfortunately, I saw this coming 30 years ago when my cousin started as a prof in the McKay School of Education. It's too bad the powers that be didn't get a handle on it then. Later on, when I won a seat on the Alpine Board of Ed I saw ton of damage that was being done by the MSE, and these issues, from their BYU-PSPs that I requested that the ASD drop their association with the PSPs. I was met with scorn, and derision. In fact, the ASD got their own man to run against me in the next election because of that, and I had no chance. Later on, I've had many come up to me only to say that I was prophetic in my request to get the ASD out of the BYU-PSP, which would have been a huge shot across the bow, so to speak. Thanks for speaking about this most important topic about BYU. Yes, BYU needs to have their own standards, not other standards based upon some standards of which secular universities guage themselves upon, and then wonder why they're failing.
Great episode Greg.Thank you for introducing someone with a deep perspective based on first had experience spanning decades. Often we do not view ourselves as capable of sliding into the foibles of disintegration in the Church as described happening in the Book of Mormon. This man's sketch of the unfolding of things over 30 years really allows us to stand back and look at how we have indeed allowed ourselves to fall into the same traps in our modern day as our brothers and sisters did in ancient America.
Yes, but Trump was only restoring Washington DC to their mission just as Elder Oaks, Elder Christopherson and Elder Holland are restoring BYU its mission. Trump had to be tough, bull-headed and even nasty to get anything done in that town, that is absolutely corrupt beyond the limits. That he succeeded in spite of that is a miracle. BYU needs a miracle of it's own. At least with BYU a similar level of determination to be tough minded (faith in the outcome) bull-headed (remaining focused) and NOT nasty but keenly rational as well as inspired to confront without the spirit of contention. That's a difficult task too!
I was considering the wording of the manifesto. Wilford Woodruff stated that if the Lord wanted it or wants it he would stand against the changes trying to compel the church if that's what he was supposed to do. He was willing to risk his neck, and risk the church to do what the lord commanded. He says; "I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me." Well if he was willing to go that far, don't we have to be willing to go that far also? Are we going to just keep giving in? At what point are we going to start saying no, to changes and forced compelled issues that are not from revelation? Why not trust the lord to save us. IF we give in to this change, there will just be another change and hurdle after that. And another after that. Well if the hurdles and compelled changes are just going to keep coming, there's no point to doing any of these changes, because they won't stop with only 1 change. They will keep trying to change things until there's nothing left.
@@rconger24 Well I think this may help you... its not exactly like you asked. But I think this is the principle in play; D&C 82:10. “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say” ; Deuteronomy 30:9-10 Then the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul. Isaiah 1:19 “If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land;" (Many other references in all scriptures also reference blessings through keeping the commandments) Sacrifice and fasting tend to help us see that we can't have the tail wag the dog. We have a tendency to want to get the rewards without putting in the effort. People think we can be blessed without actually doing. People want to think they can have the blessings and rewards without keeping the commandments. So little things in gospel principles emphasize the relationship of come to the lord, humble, and bow the knee, then gain salvation after. ...Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phillipians 2:12). Most gospel problems come from wanting to get the rewards, blessings without obeying. OR from also thinking we can be deserving and chosen of god while harming others, or wanting to cheat ourselves or family to the front of the line. So we might not have to sacrifice. We might just have to be willing to and have the heart and mind in the right place.
@@noahriding5780 Are not obedience, sacrifice and consecration among the elements of Gospel methodology? How are modern professors willing to apply this methodology for the building of faith and edification in their students? Are they willing to give up the perks of prestige to assist their students in boosting their talents toward faith and confidence to see the fruit of their skills? If they are not willing, are they fit to hold the positions they hold? Of they won't obey, sacrifice and consecrate are they fit for The Kingdom? Are any if us?
Too many people (particularly in the Church) interpret "avoid contention" as "don't stand for truth nor defend the faith, because that offends some people." And they are wrong.
@Sheri Champneys I hope you and your husband continue to speak up and speak the truth. And of course, in love. But whenever the truth is spoken, even in love, and others are offended by it, there is no clearer indication that they have wickedness in their hearts. "The wicked takd the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the center." The scriptures are true or they aren't. The Holy Ghost testifies of eternal truths or He doesn't. Ultimately, what goes against or is incomplete with the teachings of the scriptures is false and will be proven false sooner or later. God's word is internal, and not one word will pass away or return void. It is absolute. And line upon line, precept upon precept, truth is gained or lost.
There is a conservative college that does not receive any govt. "student loans" help so they can teach and have views of their own. They teach totally on the US constitution. Hillsdale College stands up for their beliefs better than the church does. It makes me ill to think BYU is giving into the world. I also have a friend whose 2 granddaughters go to Liberty University I think it is on Virginia not sure. They have a standard for students much like BYU does, except BYU is folding on ours. I don't have children but if I did I would consider sending my children to Liberty or Hillsdale.
Hillsdale is a school that stands up for the faith and I’m afraid BYU is slipping on that! It’s so sad to see that no one is really doing anything about it. Talk isn’t going to change the environment.
President Romney's warning of "Trying to serve the Lord without offending the Devil" explains our current day condition. On the one hand we are admonished/commanded to practice peace and goodwill of the Savior. Be Christlike, be kind, be civil, don't offend, show love to our neighbors. In otherwords, strive for peace, unity and oneness, Don't polarize. On the other hand we are commanded to stand for the right and defend gospel principles. Acedemia/secular thought has won so far. For the last 20+ years BYU has been haphazardly shaking hands with the Devil and has followed in the footsteps of "woke" acedemia that has become entrenched in every stage of American education. The appointed spiritual leadership that has had stewardship over BYU, for some reason, maybe the need to be "popular" or "mainstream", havent fulfillled their religious oversight responsibilities and need to wake up. Elder Holland's admonition is a good start in the right direction. If the inevitable Polarization between good and evil is missing then evil is winning.
Elder Holland’s talk was over a year ago. How long does it take to tell a woke BYU professor, “you’re fired”? BYU has been evangelizing atheistic evolution for over 50 years,
Thank both of you from the bottom of my heart . I appreciate you two wonderful disciples of Jesus Christ for the enlightening, inspiring and positive information and knowledge. I love living in the world of opposition in all things so the followers of our Savior can shine and glorify Him in all things! ❤️🙏
I grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of the Later Day Sants. I never though that the Church would lower the standards. I really would prefer be pusecuted by defending theses standards than bent to it to be accepted. I was prepared to endure anything for the Gospel I believed and served.
I am still prepared to defend this Gospel. There are many opinions on the church's statement. There is only one relationship between you and your Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Professor Hancock taught my American Heritage class when I was there in the 90’s. I really enjoyed that class despite it being huge in the JSB auditorium. That class really helped me to see the divine influence in the founding of our country. I do think BYU is going to be going to be more selective with regards to spirituality in evaluating applicants. My son just had to fill out 7-8 essays to a apply a few weeks ago. There is ample opportunity in those essays to highlight a desire to be spiritually strengthened while attending BYU. I get the sense the admissions committee will be looking for that.with more vigor and attention.
Think about what happened in 4th Nephi. As Hugh Nibley points out, the Church fell apart because thinking became too hard and people started looking for the easy way out. There seems to be no interest in rigorous scholarly thinking that is taking place there. Understanding the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics and the fact that we shouldn’t even exist should give us cause to understand why it is that we are, and that there is order in all things. The at-one-ment that exists clearly shows that there is a God. As Neal A. Maxwell pointed out, the idea of the first principles of the Gospel ought to haunt us, because that might be all there really is. This requires some deep pondering and study to understand - knowing that we are not here by accident and the rules that really govern us are not secular, but spiritual.
@@rconger24 Not sure what you mean by ‘work’. I can’t think of any type of work that can overcome the entropy of nature. The Laws of Thermodynamics do not allow for work to exist. If you are referring to the first principles, they are simply a breakdown of what is required of us to take advantage of the promises of Him who performed the ‘infinite and eternal’ atonement (or at-one-ment) that overpowers the effects of those natural laws, illustrating that spiritual laws control natural laws. Spiritual laws simply meaning laws that existed before we came here and laws that exist after we leave this mortal realm. In the end, it is ‘laws irrevocably decreed’ that exist independent of everything else, but which operate under principles of righteousness. The opposite of that, of course, would be principles of unrighteousness which seek to destroy, and therefore cannot prevent entropy. In spite of the fact that we often think of those principles in some sort of ethereal vein, they are in fact the very principles on which everything exists. Subsequently Neal A. Maxwell’s point that the first principles ought to haunt us. The nearer one draws to God, the clearer are his views of things as they ‘really are.’ That’s why I love the Brethern and what they teach. Some day we can know what they know - hopefully.
Oh my goodness. This interview validated what I concluded some time ago...that BYU with the church's backing, is trying to make BYU a Harvard of the West. And in doing so, the spiritual well being and testimonies of our youth, (and these are youth, not mature adults) is being compromised at that expense. We all know youth are leaving the church in droves. Yet we still put up with all this stuff. And this professor acts like it's so tricky to disengage with those, even professors, who are teaching anti-God stuff. In Joseph F Smith's time I read that he fired some professors at BYU for teaching evolution. And another thing, why would any apostle have to have courage to confront BYU professors? The apostles are their employers. They get paid by the church and are technically hired by the church since it's a private institution. It is looking like our leaders are afraid of academia.. Why in the world would they be afraid of them? This is so troubling.
Elder Holland said in a talk a year ago that the church is willing to give up accreditation and go on our own, so I don’t think that they are afraid to make the changes. Rather they are seeing if it can be fixed first without that step.
@@yasdnil67 I hope that's true. Some of these problems have been with us for decades and so far, no real changes have happened--in fact, it's getting much worse as time goes on.
Sorry to contradict, but I have communicated with Elder Gilbert, the Commissioner of Education, and he is NOT fighting hard on these issues. His comments to me were lackluster at best and I haven't seen any significant changes at any of the schools. I sincerely wish he would start fighting. We are losing young men and woman at an alarming rate and there are professors at our colleges that are teaching philosophies in direct contradiction to LDS principals and no one is making any effort to curb their destructive efforts.
There are a number of things happening behind the curtain. Is it enough, I don’t know. But Elder Gilbert is doing more to put BYU down the right path than anyone in decades.
I assumed after elder Holland’s talk last year at BYU that things have to be going on in the background… it would be nice to see some clear direct public corrections
If the Church has to choose between BYU being the “Harvard of the West “ or saving our precious youth I know what choice should be made ! What will it profit Us as We prepare for the second coming to lose the youth ? That should be the priority not academic awards or recognition . We have 10 BYU alumni in our immediate family and it will end there , No one wants the grandchildren there . Sigh
@@CwicShow There is a "curtain"? Oh no. That makes me so sad. Why is there even a curtain in the first place? Joseph F. Smith fired several professors during his lifetime for teaching evolution at BYU. What has changed that now the church must apparently be run more like a government that has to pass committees and who knows what to get things done? I really thought after Elder Hollands talk last year something would be done but so far, nothing but our youth are continuing to leave the church in record numbers.
Wouldn’t gospel methodology be some kind of measuring tool to hold accountable what is taught to the doctrine of Christ? If what is taught leads to atheism or goes against the doctrine, how can that be rooted out so it is not taught? Very difficult with how BYU has gone along with secularism for so long.
I'm just here to remind everyone, NOWHERE in the churches statement did they approve or disapprove of the "Respect for Marriage Act", they merely appreciated the efforts of those trying to bring compromise without stepping on individual rights and religious freedom.
On the date the statement was made, the bill hadn't passed the House and amendments were still being offered in the Senate (though it passed the House a couple of days later.) I don't see the statement as support for an incomplete bill. I believe they were still possibly hoping for stronger protections for religious freedom through the ongoing efforts of some in the Senate. As of today, the bill still hasn't passed the Senate, though it probably will. The Brethren have been consistent in working toward establishing a legal balance between religious freedom and LGBTQ rights. They have also counseled us for years to fight for religious freedom. I, for one, have probably not done enough in that latter effort.
This issue reminds me of the issue of plural marriage being compared to the slavery issue. Where the federal government was threatening to seize the Salt Lake Temple and other church properties. Perhaps the church is looking for pre-emptive ability to keep the government out of the Church's business. To uphold the Family Proclamation that marriage is between one man and one woman.
The problem isn’t “the church”, it is who is being employed to work at BYU. I know some wonderful academics and teachers that would love to work there, and are extremely faithful, yet they can’t get the roles they apply for. Shame. Clearly current hiring practices are not yielding the “best fit” staff.
@@CwicShow fair point. True academia is like ‘true science and true religion’. It’s perfectly fine in the same sphere. The problem is the academics keep moving with the tide that’s flowing to the left.
Perhaps, there is more to this than is apparent to the mortal mind. Perhaps, this new stand is to blunt a blitzkrieg by the Adversary. In other words, perhaps this will soon be an existential issue, just as the continuation of the practice of plural marriage was in the 1880s. The aspiration for BYU to be "Harvard West" has been around since at least the 1970s. For Harvard to one day aspire to become "BYU-East" is more consistent with President Kimball's and Elder Holland's vision.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, but it was left to folks like Greg to discuss and parse when the message should have been clearer. The first sentence of the announcement was clear but the remainder sowed confusion.
@@joepiloto "The Proclamation on the Family" is a trial of faith to those on the Left (the Right can't see why it should be), and this stand may be a trial of faith to those on the Right (the Left can't see why it should be). The Lord has stated two poles and given us agency; it's up to each of us to negotiate within ourselves our stance in relation to them.
Greg, I just read again Lehi’s dream and Nephi’s interpretation in my daily study of the Book of Mormon this week. I was especially intrigued by what Nephi taught was the gulf that separated the wicked from the righteous. Two meanings were given, sin and the justice of God. Today we hear about unity, inclusion, belonging, acceptance, tolerance, kindness, and the marginalized. All of these words are being redefined to accept sin and deny the justice of God. Now go and read what Alma taught Corianton who did not understand the justice of God. Alma taught that mercy cannot rob justice. The reason why there is not unity, inclusion, belonging, acceptance, tolerance, and why people are marginalized is because of sin and justice and that gulf better always be there in a righteous church. Perhaps we better learn to stop treating the Book of Mormon lightly, not only to say but to do, for we are under condemnation. O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility. This is at the heart of the battle within the church today. Today, we teach a Teddy Bear Jesus. All mercy, no justice.
One of my BYU religion professors from years ago (73-77) taught our class that whenever the Lord sets up a program (or principle or truth) the Adversary will "set up shop" right next-door. That's becoming more and more apparent.
54:12. & 1:05:20. A restoration of Classical LIBERAL ARTS? This is beginning to sound like Jordan Peterson. And looking at him instead of Kendi would be a much better Direction than we've been going!
"Reconnection with the liberal-arts ... provides a BRIDGE to a Gospel methodology. " 1:06:18 1:07:10 To stop a train going 80 miles an hour requires redirecting it up a grade. It has to be made uncomfortable or difficult or inconvenient to the establishment. Gospel methodology requires SACRIFICE. Maybe the "cost" of some of the "perks of prestige" needs to be addressed? Again, How can the faith of the student be boosted? That they be the focus? Does this sound familiar? Is sacrifice preceded by OBEDIENCE? Is sacrifice followed by CONSECRATION? Is this not "Gospel methodology?"
Great show again, Greg. Thank you! Just wondering about one thing: You said that President Worthen is doing a great job. Elder Holland said the same thing in his recent BYU talk to faculty. How do I reconcile those sentiments with all of the progressive / secular movement that you have been making us aware of all year? To my mind, either President Worthen is responsible or he’s complicit. Or is it possible that he’s neither and is merely impotent? None of those seems like “great work” to me.
Another poignant conversation. Great to hear the thoughts of an insider. The guest stated a set of statistics about the countries trend toward left leaning professors and that church sponsored schools were probably lagging behind. It prompted the memory that a poll on the Provo campus in 2020 the students would have elected Bernie Sanders at that time. We may be lagging behind on staff but the message appears to be received right on par. The guest used the phrase, “a call to repentance” in relationship to the educational staff heralded by the current addresses from the general authorities. Is it possibly that, if as suggested, the protection to religious organizations become just, “words on paper” and tax protection is removed that we as a religious body lose the blessing of church sponsored formal education. A tragic and sad result of not heeding the call to repentance? As many have already sighted and suggested the parallels to late period Book of Mormon history I hope such a scenario does not play out. But it sounds like there may be a large group of educational staff that are confident in tempting the Lord on this matter. A very sad state of affairs. Another fantastic show Cwic very well done.
@@CwicShow That is true. But can "Priestcraft" be interpreted more broadly ? Does "priestcraft" go away just because the culture changes and "priests" give way in their numbers for those with secular titles? The religion of academia does not call their promoters "priests" but their prostelyters are still their "clergy" in a sense of what their function is. And what is their function? Do they promote the welfare of Zion as a true teacher of The Doctrine of Christ would? Or do they promote their own? Do they instead set themselves up as a light to the world? Do they get gain from their employ? Do they instead seek the praise of the world? Isn't that what the Order of Nehors did in their attempt to re-frame arguments and corrupt the minds of the saints? - 2 Ne. 26: 29
To be learned is good if they hearken to the counsels of God…teach truth… love truth… absolute truth rather than the world’s relative truth or “my truth”. The glory of God is intelligence… light and truth. Some things that are taught chase out light and invite darkness. Higher and holier ways…how to be in the world not of the world and shed the natural man. If we are to prepare the world for the Lord’s return, we need to stop allowing the distraction of the world take us off course. Maybe that’s the Gospel Methodology is learning how to overcome the world and learn how to let God prevail on our campus, in our instruction, in our classrooms, in our dialogue and debates…
If BYU, and the Church for that matter, cannot or will not defend CORE principles and doctrines of the restored fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, including the principles of the New and Everlasting Covenant, that of Celestial Marriage, then it will have entirely failed in its purpose, and cannot be distinguished as the true and living church. I am not willing that this should be the case. I will not let it happen, beginning with myself. And I intend that as many as will live up to what the Gospel requires do just that. We must do more than we have been doing.
I admit I haven't done an in-depth review of the Church's statement about the Support of Marriage Act but when I read it I was not offended by it. I am an ardent supporter of traditional family and of the Proclamation on the Family, but what I came away with in the statement of support was that the Church leaders see a larger issue here, and that is religious freedom. It appears that through their efforts, statements of support for relgious freedom were strengthened in the law itself and in the long run that will be of greater importance than the fact that the act protects the "rights" of anyone to marry anyone they wish. It's likely that we will still see attacks on religious freedom despite the "guarantees" offered in the Support of Marriage Act. All too often words on a page, particularly a political document, offer nothing substantial when the next "wind of political doctrine" blows through. If words on the page were really all we needed, then the First Amendment, which is so abundantly clear to me in meaning and purpose, would instantly discourage political interlopers from trying to interfere with religious freedom from the halls of Congress.
When I was attending BYU back in the late 70’s early 80’s they used to say that a lot on BYU campus. I walked around the Harvard campus while in HS prior to attending BYU and I was astounded that anyone would want to emulate what I saw walking around that campus. It appears that after many years BYU has finally attained its long sought after goal. Congratulations- I guess.
From polygamy, to priesthood for all worthy males regardless of race, to now the apparent acceptance of same sex marriage, notwithstanding the first sentence of the recent statement, critics of the Church keep getting what they need to accuse the Church of flip flopping and bowing to pressure from activists within the ranks, which they then use to foster doubts about the claim of ongoing prophecy.
That is a problem when family members etc have stuck by the standards of the Church…NOT unkindly …only to have the Church change them . Perhaps We ARE a few months or years from gay temple marriage ? As one with gay family members that I have loved and included ( but stayed by the Church ) it will be difficult to understand .
I’m just wondering for the sake of wondering…. The doctrine says that the Lord will remove prophets / leaders if they lead the church astray. That said, how would that happen? Again, I’m not suggesting anything, I’m only just stating it “aloud”…. Would the Lord remove unworthy leaders by.. sickness or death? Would he remove them by revealing them to be inadequate? Or would he remove them by expecting members to NOT sustain them?..
Does the doctrine say that though? I’ve only found an old quote from a member of the 12 saying the current prophet couldn’t lead the church astray. People have parroted that statement ever since. Is that considered doctrine? Seems like the scriptures support more a view of people “awakening to their awful situation”, realizing they had trusted someone or something more than direct faith in the Lord. I don’t know the right answer (or the answer to your more specific question) but I do wonder if we’re wrong about the prophet not being able to mislead (intentionally or not).
@@wendiesanders6581 This comment takes the quote about our "awful situation" from Ether 8 out of context. That refers specifically to a secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all nations. I hardly think that can be applied to anything going on within the Church. Addendum: I just discovered that King Benjamin uses the "awful situation" phrase in Mosiah 2 regarding those who have fallen into transgression to encourage his listeners to be obedient. Still doesn't apply, IMO.
Just out of interest. Hills Dale offers 100s of classes you can take for free online. Check it out of you'd like to learn at a college level just for the knowledge. I love it!!! U do not get college credits with their classes.
@@bradhardisty1652 Do you mean Hillsdale in Michigan? He rarely accepts invitations but Jordan Peterson went there and spoke for their Spring Commencement exercises. A great speach. There is a school with a mission!
When something comes out from the Church Newsroom, it should be signed by whomever made the statement. Homosexuality is clearly a sin, along with pedophiliac, adultery, fornication, and bestiality. Why emphasize that we should love the sinner, of one of these sins, without saying all sinners of sexual sin should be loved, and helped back into full membership. They all have the same thing in common, which is they are a breach of God's boundaries. They are all caused by a lack of control of, first thought, and then action. As the Bible says, He does "not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance". There has got to be much more clarity, and a grouping of all these sexual sins, when talking on this subject.
@everyday tenor so would you allow a sexual deviant work at the day care center where you leave your kids? Would you let one baby sit in your home. My point is; there is a crossover area with legal and love. Your adversaries know this well and using it to do their missionary efforts to convert you and your children.
I would not trust a general who commits adultery to have the scruples necessary to commit Infantry. Do we not remember The Charge of the Light Brigade?
In his book "In Seach of Truth," John A Widtsoe says "Every person of honest mind loves truth above all else. In the proposed exchange of the new for the old, religion has often been in apparent conflict with science. Yet, the conflict has only been apparent, for science seeks truth, and the aim of religion is truth. That they have occupied different fields of truth is a mere detail. The Gospel accepts and embraces all truth; science is slowly expanding her arms, and reaching into the invisible domain, in search of truth. The two are meeting daily; science as the child; religion as the mother. Earnest attempts at reconciliation are rewarded with full success. . . Truth is truth, whether labeled science or religion."
I hope that you’re not equating “science” with evolution. Evolution is a pagan religion and, unfortunately, many intellectuals within the Church have fallen for it.
I graduated BYU 1971 - graduate work from USC. I have watched this transformation to Progressive philosophies for the last 50 years. I also was taught by two hard-core Progressive relatives since 1971. The progressive movement was started by educators in the ivy league universities in the late 1800s. They named their ideas progressivism to progress away from the "flawed ideas of the Founding Fathers and progress toward a utopian society they would create". In the 50s, the progressives focused on placing all their new recruits in departments of education, communication, and political science in all the colleges and universities in the country. By the 1980s progressives controlled those positions nationwide. Their efforts were to educate teachers, media, and Hollywood within 1 to 2 generations. Socialism, fascism, and Communism all came from progressivism. The leftists and the democrat party are well along to creating a fascist dictatorship to replace our Constitutional Republic. They are so excited to implement a digital currency in the next year or two to replace our dollar, because it will give them complete control over each and every one of us. (mark of the beast?)
Abomination, your guest has said, “And the LORD said, Because the outcry against the Univerity of BYU is great, and because their sin is very grievous;” 20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against the Univerity of BYU is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” 22 The men turned away and went toward the university of Byu, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing-to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” 26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the university of BYU, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
I went to BYU from 1964 to 1971. These things were not a concern. My daughter went there in the mid-'90s. She had her sons and daughters go to BYUI specifically due to the problems that are being discussed here at BYU. Sad comment on the situation.
Your guest made a point about how Trump is bad in political discussion because of his rhetoric. Personally, I did not like his posts or his speeches. However, he knew which way was the right direction in terms of policy. How convenient to ignore the rhetoric of the left which is precipitating this discussion. With his accommodation of leftists he opens the way to always ignore anyone from the right. Really poor academics on his part and a lack of impartiality and adherence to the 1st Amendment.
I don’t think I misheard him. I was a little taken back when he was saying that Trump support is a problem. I don’t like Trump’s personality or his rhetoric, but I saw way too many of my “sophisticated” and “academic” fellow members that hated Trump so much that they supported Biden and many democrats. They are allowed to tell you how wonderful they are for doing so, but I am never allowed to reveal that I’m conservative and voted for Trump. This guy came across as one of those members. Complain about Babylon while happily voting for its success!
There has always been an issue between academia and religion. Religion via our Church was to bring them together UNDER the umbrella of concept of GodHead with plan and purpose for the individual as a child of God. Academic, second. What is happening to the inspiration of leadership to do this academic excuse making. Wow!!! Really watching this. Gospel is Truth, academia sits under that. We are not a theology but has to align together not juxtaposed.
After about 35 years of active Church membership -- WE ARE SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATING WHETHER TO CONTINUE TITHING. Have very strongly-held beliefs that our Father & Christ support only monogamy. Similarly, we don't believe our Father or Christ supported the Priesthood ban. We believe the Church's past policies in these two areas were attributable to fallible prophets. More recently, BYU Provo's tolerance (in the name of compassion & understanding) of CRT & aspects of the LGBTQ agenda have caused us grave concern. Consider, for example, BYU's Office Of Belonging. Our tithing donations are funding such. The Church's recent support for the Respect for (including same sex) Marriage Act MAY become the final determinant in our Tithing decision. We have corresponded with the Vice President of the Office of Belonging, our Bishop, our Stake Presidency, and, more recently the Church's Public Affairs Department. We've not received any replies from our Bishop, Stake President, Public Affairs Department, or Dallin Oaks (who spear-headed the Church's support for the Marriage Act). We are asking ourselves how we can support a Church that is advocating/tolerating values we consider inconsistent with Christ's teachings. We would appreciate conversations addressing the aforementioned. We are are seeking clarity.
I fully understand your concern about tithing. But paying tithing is a commandment of God. If the leaders misuse those funds, they will be accountable.
No. Anyone that has a rudimentary understanding of the left that is behind the woke movement knows that it's about control and subjugation of those that don't accommodate its desires. It is Marxist-like division for purposes of control. One can pretend that's religion, but in reality it's priest craft to cajole and control.
There are a lot of different factions, but I think this is the biggest one. Some are trying to tear the Church and its school down from the inside, but some are just trying to be tolerant to the point of allowing BYU to fall apart.
Only very few saints showed up to ever defend the family. The only actual fighters I saw were outside the LA Temple and some of those guys went to jail when certain deviants had it coming. The men in Israel haven't defended anything since Missouri.
When you mention a gospel methodology, and that a precise definition of that actually constitutes hasn't been well presented, I am a bit shocked in all honesty. A Gospel Methodology, has been and ought to be a meta-methodology, or rather a screen through which you evaluate the credit of a particular methodology. I am a biochemist, so my approach to the scholarly is very different from that of social scientists, who are particular peddlers and simultaneous victims of the pernicious doctrines espoused by the academy. I can explain by example. In the past, I have taken a few sociology classes in my undergraduate education. I was astounded at how easy such classes were when all you had to do was learn the overarching narrative peddled by the professor and apply it to whatever situation you were put in front of. Compared to equivalent level classes in Organic Chemistry, Physics or Biology, it required minimal and trivial effort. That being said, they were not totally devoid of useful information and rigour, but to find it you would have to go back to the 40s and 50s. Sociology went off the rails when it began to dismiss the tools of structural functionalism as a potential route to uncovering sociological truths, and the reasons for its diminishment are not very good in my estimation. After that, a whole zoo of methodological approaches cropped up that essentially allowed "scholars" to interpret the world and their data however they chose to, whereby they chose whatever method or philosophy that would support their particular world-view. Critical, Feminist and Queer theory are offspring of this diversification, likely due to the invasion of post-modern thought. What much of sociological academia failed to do was establish a meta-standard by which they could test the various methods and perspectives that were developed, so that critical discourse (not to be confused with critical theory) could be undertaken about sociological topics. As a result, only sociology that uses hard mathematics and rigourous data collection should even be remotely counted on, all else is complete rubbish. No meta-standard, no science. The meta-standard is simple, to seek light and truth. Once you personalize truth, or monopolize light to yourself or the manufacture of your own will, you've lost the plot. The hard sciences (STEM,...etc) do a far better job of this, where we assume truth beyond the personal, and are disallowed a monopoly on the interpretation of data or its correct interpretation. I have to work very hard to "stuff the gaps" in my research, elsewise, my colleagues will not take it seriously. Any new method of investigation, by new technology or algorithms has to be compared to previously evaluated standards, and even then, doubt and scrutiny are applied heavily, till numerous experiments and prods have been performed. The social sciences lost their way when they supposed that the facts revealed to them were too impersonal, too condemning of the unfortunate and too favourable to the fortunate. They ceased seeking after light and instead tried to imitate it.
all truth comes from one place. we can discover better, by obedience to the laws we know. bring the world back to the truth by living it, not pacifying the ideas that lead away from the truth. broad is the way. if we look close, it is easy to see how we started out with pure truth and then deviated away from it. we created our own truths and have faltered as a result of this deviation. go back to the beginning.
The church has never had religious freedom. we have always been told by the government on what to do. Sense the days of Joseph the government has pressured and attacked the church for its beliefs. Even when the church was not apart of the Union in Utah they still couldn’t live free.
Do you mean like the Jews under roman rule? Yeah, it's happened before and yet in the end Christ always finds a way to prevail. Hmmm, almost like he planned it all out from the beginning.
Yeah mmmmm not so much. You may be fine with that for a while. Your adversaries will not be content with letting you alone with your convictions. Their strategy is to convert you and your children. Lack of contending on your part is a sign of weakness to them, an invitation for further assault.
Are they? Or are you failing to see why it's a big deal? If only it were so easy as to just worry about oneself, as if we are isolated and insulated from society at large. It's akin to saying just worry about your own household rules, and don't worry about government, ignoring the inevitable implications that impact one's household. It's a bigger deal than most LDS realize imo.
@@Heartsinmelody Absolutely. He's clear on loving our brothers and sisters who "struggle" with same sex attraction. He's clear on avoiding hate/division/contention in our hearts. It's also painfully obvious he is NOT advocating acceptance of same sex marriage. Nor repealimg the Proclamation on the Family. He's warning that the adversary is exponentially increasing his attacks, which is directly speaking to gender ideology, among other facets. Thanks for your concern, but I'm completely aware of everything he's said publicly for the last 4.75 years. And that's why I stand for the family, not for moral relativism substitutes for family.
Every law has a moral basis. Separation of church from state is not the same as separation of morality from state. We can and should still vote according to our moral concsciences.
@@spencer.ecclesIf you believe in what you say, why resort to ad hominims in an attempt to quash another's alternate point of view? You preach radical libertian ideas, but don't act it out.
As we all know, the Constitution does not provide for a separation of church and state, as understood by Justice Black in Emerson vs. Board of Education. That there must be a “wall of separation” was his opinion and found nowhere in the Constitution. Moreover, BYU is not a secular institution, and students who attend both know this and accept it as a fact of their admittance. There is no hypothetical wall or separation. We are not “Caesar’s.”
I believe that any parent who sends their child to any school has the responsibility to have taught their child the beliefs of the family such that no matter what comes at them they can be rooted in the family's beliefs. Students have the right to stand up for their beliefs. They can tell professors that what they are teaching is wrong. We need to get away from trying to control others with legislation and teach that everyone has agency to choose. Teach as the Savior taught. Love our enemy, do good to those that will use you. We don't have to become like everyone else. No matter what someone is trying to get you to believe we have the ability to turn to God and have him teach us. That is the message of President Nelson. We need to learn from the greatest teacher ever. And we should love others even when they are doing wrong. That doesn't mean that we have to embrace what they are doing and become like them. We don't know when they will realize the sin and turn their heart and life over to God. Let us all stand firm in the faith. The scriptures tell us that this will get worse. But that people will look to Zion and fear or say "let us to up to Zion". I hope to be a Zion person. Maybe that's naïve but I believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the first presidency even if I don't understand. And I believe I have the responsibility to think for myself and pray on those things and seek the guidance from the Lord.
I guess you miss the point. The whole purpose of our Church educational institutions is to have a place where they will be protected from Wokeism, and Communistic ideas that have infiltrated other learning institutions. Since this is a Chuirch supported institution (BYU), our children, and grandchildren, look upon anything coming from the mouths of these professors is either Church Doctrine, or Church sanctioned. If BYU can't help strengthen, or build testimonies, of Latter-day Saint youth, then why should The Church waste our Tithing money on it, because it would be no better than what they get at any other University.
If these misled, rebel, professors can't be reigned in, corrected, or fired, then our tithing money would be far better spent building: Temples; Institute Buildings; Seminary Buildings; and Chapels, where the pure word of God can be taught, and Latter-day Saints can be uplifted, and brought closer to Our Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, without Wokeism, and Communistic Ideas, to shake, or destroy their faith. We must have a clear sight of the enemies of our faith, without having the enemy within our midst, for Wokeism, and Communism, are tools of Satan. We can't come to the conclusion, that "we have met the enemy, and he is us" (Walt Kelly). We have enough challenges before us, without internal strife. Our whole purpose is to become one. The Lord said, “If ye are not one ye are not mine” (D&C 38:27)
I don't think it's sufficient any longer to just teach correct principles. Now, they must be inoculated against the prevailing ideas of the day (gender ideology being a current hot one).
I think what you say sounds good, but it is hard to put into practice, especially when a professor controls your future through your GPA. Most scholastic interactions are actually heresay, and if you don't record every conversation it would be very easy for words to be twisted or denied, leading to wrongful termination lawsuits, etc. I agree with everyone who has stated its too bad BYU allowed itself to become so secularized over the past several decades.
Ì would rather speak up and get a flower grade then cave to the pressures of the world and lose my soul. If enough students did the schools would get the message.
Hillsdale College can do it. BYU-P and its sister institutions should be able to do it too. They should not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I am not at all pleased that some of our tithing dollars go to the BYUs in their current state.
My view, just as the Covid statement was men’t to get the Temples open. ( look at the Church’s Chang from polygamy to monogamy ) It’s all about keeping the temples open. This in no way means we need to embrace same sex marriage.
You guys are dancing around the issue. The good professor there is talking in circles and not saying anything really. He'll probably get his butt fired if he speaks clearly about the subject, so it's understandable. I'm a BYU grad from 1982 and based on what I'm hearing here, the campus isn't what it used to be, nor is the leadership. Of course, the times we are living in are slightly different too. I just wish we could continue to preach that we despise the sin, of whatever type, but love the sinner, like Christ did and does. Keep it simple.
As soon as the church put that out about accepting the same sex marriage. People will miss understand the standing of the church. I am talking about people of other religions will assume something else
1:03:23. Only Jesus can be truly equitable. No man or business possesses the ability to evaluate all factors in a person's life that have directly or indirectly effected the person. So why do the mention it? I see more businesses moving away from the equity term.
How much does this decision got to do with taxes? doesn't the gov. has the power to take away your church tax status if you don't conform to their laws?
its a delight that academia nationwide is failing due to similar infiltration for decades... will BYU die out first or the general assumption that a college education is worthwhile?
Point Blank: The Post War Generation’s wealth made them soft and they were seduced by Baal (psuedoscience cloaked in sophistry and titled like “academia”). Soft people cannot defend themselves, let alone the faith, therefore, This softness created another war, the culture war. The younger generation that grew up in this war, already battle-born and scarred, is stronger and waiting to fight. Pride and technology keep the useless older generation in power, pointing its tent toward Sodom but it cannot last forever. The only question is how much damage the weak and wealthy will do to the church before they finally all pass and will there be any recognizeable difference between BYU/the church and any basic secular organization/university by then.
I can agree with a number of your anti-boomer/GenX statements, but your generation needs to take responsibility as well. The problem is not “out there” for any of us.
As liberal as BYU is, I don't see the reason to go to the school. I am a member of the church as well, but to question the politics of the school, removes the spiritual side.
I graduated BYU in 2000 and I loved my time there. I gained my testimony in that environment. Even back then I remember professors, specifically in the religion department and biology department, who stated there were wolves in sheep’s clothing throughout the university who sought to undermine the spiritual mission of the university. This appears to still be the case and possibly even worse. But, the opportunity to choose good over evil is still there to choose. The students who are truly searching and are truly good will have eyes to see and ears to hear and will rise above the increasing evil around them. Let’s pray for them and all the good professors there to be strengthened and shielded and to fight the good fight against the ever increasing evil around them.
Here is my summation of how many members of the Church feel. It would be nice if, when we go to defend the faith, we didn't find that our leaders have intentionally or inadvertently given weapons against us to our attackers in the form of statements designed more to not offend than to state eternal truth accurately and precisely.
People can accept the changes if they are based on true revelation, and love, and true discipleship of the savior.
BUT, people are extremely wary and distrustful of changes that feel coerced, compelled, and forced upon us. And it feels like too many of these new changes are being brought in through under the table sneaky means, where there's no preparation, no directness, and just.... surprise.
@balduran3003
You are so right, we should not let the outsider dictate how our faith and doctrines should be
I agree. I feel like the leaders are more concerned with what the world will think about the church leaving the faithful dedicated members to deal with the sad feelings of thinking that we who served and endured are left. I feel abandoned.
@@anademoura4724 President Nelson told us in April 2019 Saturday night session were to prepare to receive revelation, which without we would not spiritually survive what was coming.
When he gave that talk I heard "you will not be able to follow what is being directed from the pulpit, so be prepared to know what is from God and what is not"
What I heard is not in the talk, or transcript, because I kept going back to find it. I can only surmise it was revelation I was given during that talk. It prepared me to feel confident in leading my family into saying no to complying to anything in 2020 and on. My adult children also felt inspired to say no, two of which were career military officers who lost their jobs, insurance and pensions.
I believe what you are tuned into is the quickening of desperation which is blanketing the world in darkness and despair. This is coming from Satan's desire to force his plan onto us to prove he's been correct, we will be happier with nothing.
In early 2020 I felt something different than despair, I felt a vibrating excitement throughout my entire body. The feeling lasted over a week so I asked Heavenly Father what I was feeling. The answer I received was "Everything promised is coming to pass". I knew then I was feeling was stemming from deep inside the Earth, her soul was vibrating with excitement the Lord was returning soon, to cleanse her from the darkness and pain.
I have felt the darkness and despair, I asked to be able to feel the excitement again. My answer was "No. It is for you to remember and hold onto"
We are experiencing the prophecy given in D&C 87. In which the righteous are instructed/commanded to stand in holy places and be not moved.
@@tjkasgl thank you for sharing. 🙏💕
I teach at an English-medium university in a non-Western country. I regard my teaching as a secular ministry. That is, every day, I seek to minister to the students as Jesus would do in a secular context. After a few weeks of skepticism, they begin to respond because they feel, without my ever saying it, that the driving force behind my teaching is the love of Christ. This is the gospel foundation for all teaching.
"Our attitude towards The Family Proclamation is one of this generation's tests." -Pres. Oaks.. Our youngest daughter and myself were shamed by peers and parents because she didn't make it into BYU. She never wanted to go there! That was a huge display of pride that we had not been keenly aware of. So many of her peers that ended up in BYU have fallen away from the church. That is a huge display of pride. The BYU professors that are not willing to consider the bigger picture and continue the teachings of man, is a huge display of pride. There is one group that is openly displaying pride. I tend to believe that pride has squeezed itself in parts of leadership as well. How does the world view us? My daughter, husband, friends, and associates are asking why is the church doing this or that? They want an anchor!! The sad part is our anchor is being pulled up. That was my favorite part of Pres. Hinckley's interview with Mike Wallace. The Gospel is an anchor for the shiftings of this world. Losing the anchor isn't going to help with missionary efforts either. These are the last days and I think we are at the last part of The Proclamation. ""We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets." The Lord is performing His strange acts. The Lord sees where our hearts are going. You want your anchor pulled up? Okay, you've been warned. The dividing,, the tests, and we wait.
Today I beleive the church is forming a strategy but holding to the doctrines and this is causing a great falling away.
Is pride reversed by sacrifice?
Is prestige reversed by offering?
From the D&C Section 10:
10 And, behold, aSatan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands. (In this case, documents signed instead of translated, but still fits).
11 And behold, I say unto you, that because they have altered the words (& intents of their hearts), they read contrary from that which you translated and caused to be written (agreed);
12 And, on this wise, the devil has sought to lay a cunning plan (trap!) , that he may destroy this work;
13 For he hath put into their hearts to do this, that by lying they may say they have caught you in the words ...
Precisely what makes President Nelson's admonition so relevant!
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."
Many have based their faith and testimony on the goodness of leaders of the church, or of the good the church does in the world. People and organizations will ultimately disappoint us. Yes we should "follow the prophet" and sustain the church leaders: However, Faith in our Savior Jesus Christ and inspiration through the Holy Ghost are the only truly reliable anchors!
@@BD-xi1tv a strategy for what
I had a nonmember friend who told me about this recent news and he was surprised and disappointed by it. He felt very let down. I started trying to find more information about all of this so that I could work it through with him. I’ve watched and have then directed him to your podcasts and we’ve had some great conversations. Thank you so much for helping us process this.
This is another great podcast on the subject, and I want to thank you and Ralph Hancock for discussing this together. His experience and knowledge on this gave so much insight and understanding.
I did not think I would ever live to see this time, but here we all are. We were born for this time. I pray we will not get distracted by the voices that speak untruths. As Hancock spoke of two truths, we need to hold fast to the spiritual truths. I have definitely felt lately that I must really work on my spiritual self by diligently praying and studying scriptures; taking time to be aware of the Holy Ghost and acting on inspiration, as well as following the Prophet and praying to receive(and follow) personal revelation.
Thank you, thank you Greg and Ralph.
I had exactly that also. I've had 2 friends ask me what we believed because of the statement. I tried to explain the church's message which to me makes NO sense. One was very disappointed and one friend, more on the left, head no opinion but just wanted to know. The decision to put this out makes me sick at my stomach.
I am not well versed in philosophy, if at all. Greg, I enjoy your interviews, even though I don't understand all of the nuances of the conversation. I had an individual call me out of the blue, whom I knew only remotely, to inquire if I was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I affirmed that I was. He is anticipating becoming a member of the Church, but had learned of this announcement. He asked me if the Church leaders were going to start preforming gay wedding ceremonies. He said if that was the case that it was a deal-breaker for him.
I had read a couple headlines regarding the Church's stance on same-sex marriage but wasn't informed enough to take this prospective member down the wrong path. The fact that he'd caught me checking out at the grocery store and requiring some clerk assistance in that very moment, didn't help the situation.
I explained that to my knowledge, the Church was not going to perform gay marriages. What I did manage to do was to look up the number of my Stake President and suggested that he call him for further clarification. When I got home, I watched your podcast on this very subject and thought of sharing that with him. I didn't go through with that as I felt prompted to leave it in the Stake President's hands.
I have a problem navigating all of these twists & turns that have been wound around our answers. I feel that we are weaving a rope with which to hang ourselves. One of the reasons that I joined the Church in 1976, as a convert, was the gospel's simplicity. That seems to have been taken away in some regard.
I once looked up the phrase, "hate the sin but love the sinner." It claimed that the phrase was never really attributed to anyone. But isn't that what the brethren are teaching us, to love the sinner but don't condone their sins?
I had a Christian neighbor tell me about the 'news' too....her words were "Mormons have gone super woke. They support gay marriage now." It is very difficult to navigate the conversation when people read headlines and don't understand doctrine of our church.
Professor Hancock is a modern day light in the descending darkness. He is a great example of speaking up when things are not going well , or processes and political based decisions are in conflict with core doctrine. Agency was and is being fought for even within our secular religious surroundings and directions. Great discussion. Thank you
Ralph Hancock's honesty is respectable. Wow
I remember distinctly a lecture by professor James H. Polve on the three laws of thermodynamics (in my thermodynamics 1 course). He combined gospel methodology in teaching that the second law indicates that while disorder increase in the system from a spontaneous process as a result of this law, a greater eternal power would need to intervene at some stage to organize the chaos and hearkened us to what we are taught in the temple. Used quotes from JS and Elder Pratt. I cannot recall exactly all three laws of thermodynamics, but I realized this was the blessing of having what you refer to as the gospel methodology included in his teaching. This combining of telos and logos has always been a hallmark of gospel methodology in my view, with the understanding of things more eternal and not just temporal or physical.
Excellent example of how it was and how it can and should be.
Professor Polve was pure legend in The Department of Mechanical Engineering. His contribution to the intellect of students he taught must go on for ages. Unfortunately he left just before I came.
@@rconger24 Dr. Polve was the best! My Mom worked with him for several years. Great man.
Greg, I wanted to thank you for your platform! I really appreciate these "insider" interviews!! To be able to listen to candid perspectives of people who are close to the situation is very valuable and instructive!! Please keep these "insider" interviews coming!! Thanks you!
Very insightful point how if there's no conflict, then you're not standing for anything.
It was well put. I am perplexed at the number of comments I've heard in gospel doctrine or in sacrament talks misunderstanding President Nelson, and the members advocating staying silent on issues such as defending the family in order to avoid contention.
There is a distinction between conflict and contention. Conflict is inevitable where opposing ideas are important enough to debate. "There must needs be opposition in all things."
Contention arises when pride is the motivation. "...he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention."
I listened to this entire conversation while working out (valid multi-tasking 😉). I thought of this quote from Neal A. Maxwell, who could run circles around most academics. I've used it often, including in interviews like this.
"Satan need not get everyone to be like Cain or Judas, though he relishes such dramatic "success." He needs only to get able men [and women] like Pilate or Agrippa to see themselves as sophisticated neutrals." (Deposition of a Disciple (1976), 88)
Excellent quote!
Unfortunately, I saw this coming 30 years ago when my cousin started as a prof in the McKay School of Education. It's too bad the powers that be didn't get a handle on it then.
Later on, when I won a seat on the Alpine Board of Ed I saw ton of damage that was being done by the MSE, and these issues, from their BYU-PSPs that I requested that the ASD drop their association with the PSPs. I was met with scorn, and derision. In fact, the ASD got their own man to run against me in the next election because of that, and I had no chance. Later on, I've had many come up to me only to say that I was prophetic in my request to get the ASD out of the BYU-PSP, which would have been a huge shot across the bow, so to speak.
Thanks for speaking about this most important topic about BYU. Yes, BYU needs to have their own standards, not other standards based upon some standards of which secular universities guage themselves upon, and then wonder why they're failing.
Well said!
What does PSP mean? And ASD?
@@imawordgirl My question as well.
@@imawordgirl PSP (Public School Partnership), ASD (Alpine School District)
Excellent guest. Gives me hope for BYU.
Great episode Greg.Thank you for introducing someone with a deep perspective based on first had experience spanning decades. Often we do not view ourselves as capable of sliding into the foibles of disintegration in the Church as described happening in the Book of Mormon. This man's sketch of the unfolding of things over 30 years really allows us to stand back and look at how we have indeed allowed ourselves to fall into the same traps in our modern day as our brothers and sisters did in ancient America.
Have Professor Hancock on, on a regular basis every quarter or so.
Another great interview. I loved this professor’s perspective.
Ralph is a BYU treasure.
Yes, but Trump was only restoring Washington DC to their mission just as Elder Oaks, Elder Christopherson and Elder Holland are restoring BYU its mission.
Trump had to be tough, bull-headed and even nasty to get anything done in that town, that is absolutely corrupt beyond the limits. That he succeeded in spite of that is a miracle.
BYU needs a miracle of it's own. At least with BYU a similar level of determination to be tough minded (faith in the outcome) bull-headed (remaining focused) and NOT nasty but keenly rational as well as inspired to confront without the spirit of contention. That's a difficult task too!
I was considering the wording of the manifesto. Wilford Woodruff stated that if the Lord wanted it or wants it he would stand against the changes trying to compel the church if that's what he was supposed to do. He was willing to risk his neck, and risk the church to do what the lord commanded.
He says; "I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me."
Well if he was willing to go that far, don't we have to be willing to go that far also? Are we going to just keep giving in? At what point are we going to start saying no, to changes and forced compelled issues that are not from revelation? Why not trust the lord to save us.
IF we give in to this change, there will just be another change and hurdle after that. And another after that. Well if the hurdles and compelled changes are just going to keep coming, there's no point to doing any of these changes, because they won't stop with only 1 change. They will keep trying to change things until there's nothing left.
Is sacrifice among the principles of Gospel methodology?
What other elements might there be?
@@rconger24
Well I think this may help you... its not exactly like you asked. But I think this is the principle in play;
D&C 82:10. “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say” ; Deuteronomy 30:9-10
Then the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul. Isaiah 1:19
“If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land;" (Many other references in all scriptures also reference blessings through keeping the commandments)
Sacrifice and fasting tend to help us see that we can't have the tail wag the dog. We have a tendency to want to get the rewards without putting in the effort. People think we can be blessed without actually doing. People want to think they can have the blessings and rewards without keeping the commandments. So little things in gospel principles emphasize the relationship of come to the lord, humble, and bow the knee, then gain salvation after.
...Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phillipians 2:12). Most gospel problems come from wanting to get the rewards, blessings without obeying. OR from also thinking we can be deserving and chosen of god while harming others, or wanting to cheat ourselves or family to the front of the line.
So we might not have to sacrifice. We might just have to be willing to and have the heart and mind in the right place.
@@noahriding5780 Are not obedience, sacrifice and consecration among the elements of Gospel methodology? How are modern professors willing to apply this methodology for the building of faith and edification in their students? Are they willing to give up the perks of prestige to assist their students in boosting their talents toward faith and confidence to see the fruit of their skills? If they are not willing, are they fit to hold the positions they hold? Of they won't obey, sacrifice and consecrate are they fit for The Kingdom? Are any if us?
Challenge is Similar to the issues with the mainstream medical establishment in conflict with the truth telling honest doctors
Too many people (particularly in the Church) interpret "avoid contention" as "don't stand for truth nor defend the faith, because that offends some people." And they are wrong.
@Sheri Champneys I hope you and your husband continue to speak up and speak the truth.
And of course, in love.
But whenever the truth is spoken, even in love, and others are offended by it, there is no clearer indication that they have wickedness in their hearts. "The wicked takd the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the center." The scriptures are true or they aren't. The Holy Ghost testifies of eternal truths or He doesn't.
Ultimately, what goes against or is incomplete with the teachings of the scriptures is false and will be proven false sooner or later. God's word is internal, and not one word will pass away or return void. It is absolute.
And line upon line, precept upon precept, truth is gained or lost.
There is a conservative college that does not receive any govt. "student loans" help so they can teach and have views of their own. They teach totally on the US constitution. Hillsdale College stands up for their beliefs better than the church does. It makes me ill to think BYU is giving into the world. I also have a friend whose 2 granddaughters go to Liberty University I think it is on Virginia not sure. They have a standard for students much like BYU does, except BYU is folding on ours. I don't have children but if I did I would consider sending my children to Liberty or Hillsdale.
It's because Hillsdale College does not take government money.
BYU is my alma mater and my husband’s. I have a very long history of loving BYU…but I voluntarily contribute to Hillsdale College, and not to BYU.
I applied to teach math at Liberty University. I am currently waiting to see if I get an interview.
Donated to BYU until recently… now Hilldale gets it. They defend the faith way better. I wish it was BYU we loved our time there 😢
Hillsdale is a school that stands up for the faith and I’m afraid BYU is slipping on that! It’s so sad to see that no one is really doing anything about it. Talk isn’t going to change the environment.
Great episode. Love hearing the professor's perspective on BYU. Change needs to be made and made now.
Thank you for your platform and your position.
fantastic podcast. We need more of this and we need to give it more visibility. Thank you!
President Romney's warning of "Trying to serve the Lord without offending the Devil" explains our current day condition. On the one hand we are admonished/commanded to practice peace and goodwill of the Savior. Be Christlike, be kind, be civil, don't offend, show love to our neighbors. In otherwords, strive for peace, unity and oneness, Don't polarize. On the other hand we are commanded to stand for the right and defend gospel principles. Acedemia/secular thought has won so far.
For the last 20+ years BYU has been haphazardly shaking hands with the Devil and has followed in the footsteps of "woke" acedemia that has become entrenched in every stage of American education. The appointed spiritual leadership that has had stewardship over BYU, for some reason, maybe the need to be "popular" or "mainstream", havent fulfillled their religious oversight responsibilities and need to wake up. Elder Holland's admonition is a good start in the right direction. If the inevitable Polarization between good and evil is missing then evil is winning.
Elder Holland’s talk was over a year ago. How long does it take to tell a woke BYU professor, “you’re fired”? BYU has been evangelizing atheistic evolution for over 50 years,
Thank both of you from the bottom of my heart . I appreciate you two wonderful disciples of Jesus Christ for the enlightening, inspiring and positive information and knowledge. I love living in the world of opposition in all things so the followers of our Savior can shine and glorify Him in all things! ❤️🙏
I grew up in the Church of Jesus Christ of the Later Day Sants. I never though that the Church would lower the standards. I really would prefer be pusecuted by defending theses standards than bent to it to be accepted. I was prepared to endure anything for the Gospel I believed and served.
I am still prepared to defend this Gospel. There are many opinions on the church's statement. There is only one relationship between you and your Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
@@CwicShowI am keeping my relationship with my Heavenly Father. Because from him is where the strength always comes.
Professor Hancock taught my American Heritage class when I was there in the 90’s. I really enjoyed that class despite it being huge in the JSB auditorium. That class really helped me to see the divine influence in the founding of our country. I do think BYU is going to be going to be more selective with regards to spirituality in evaluating applicants. My son just had to fill out 7-8 essays to a apply a few weeks ago. There is ample opportunity in those essays to highlight a desire to be spiritually strengthened while attending BYU. I get the sense the admissions committee will be looking for that.with more vigor and attention.
Think about what happened in 4th Nephi. As Hugh Nibley points out, the Church fell apart because thinking became too hard and people started looking for the easy way out. There seems to be no interest in rigorous scholarly thinking that is taking place there. Understanding the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics and the fact that we shouldn’t even exist should give us cause to understand why it is that we are, and that there is order in all things. The at-one-ment that exists clearly shows that there is a God. As Neal A. Maxwell pointed out, the idea of the first principles of the Gospel ought to haunt us, because that might be all there really is. This requires some deep pondering and study to understand - knowing that we are not here by accident and the rules that really govern us are not secular, but spiritual.
Yes, the equations show that only WORK reverses the tide of entropic chaos.
@@rconger24 Not sure what you mean by ‘work’. I can’t think of any type of work that can overcome the entropy of nature. The Laws of Thermodynamics do not allow for work to exist. If you are referring to the first principles, they are simply a breakdown of what is required of us to take advantage of the promises of Him who performed the ‘infinite and eternal’ atonement (or at-one-ment) that overpowers the effects of those natural laws, illustrating that spiritual laws control natural laws. Spiritual laws simply meaning laws that existed before we came here and laws that exist after we leave this mortal realm. In the end, it is ‘laws irrevocably decreed’ that exist independent of everything else, but which operate under principles of righteousness. The opposite of that, of course, would be principles of unrighteousness which seek to destroy, and therefore cannot prevent entropy. In spite of the fact that we often think of those principles in some sort of ethereal vein, they are in fact the very principles on which everything exists. Subsequently Neal A. Maxwell’s point that the first principles ought to haunt us. The nearer one draws to God, the clearer are his views of things as they ‘really are.’ That’s why I love the Brethern and what they teach. Some day we can know what they know - hopefully.
Oh my goodness. This interview validated what I concluded some time ago...that BYU with the church's backing, is trying to make BYU a Harvard of the West. And in doing so, the spiritual well being and testimonies of our youth, (and these are youth, not mature adults) is being compromised at that expense. We all know youth are leaving the church in droves. Yet we still put up with all this stuff. And this professor acts like it's so tricky to disengage with those, even professors, who are teaching anti-God stuff. In Joseph F Smith's time I read that he fired some professors at BYU for teaching evolution. And another thing, why would any apostle have to have courage to confront BYU professors? The apostles are their employers. They get paid by the church and are technically hired by the church since it's a private institution. It is looking like our leaders are afraid of academia.. Why in the world would they be afraid of them? This is so troubling.
Elder Holland said in a talk a year ago that the church is willing to give up accreditation and go on our own, so I don’t think that they are afraid to make the changes. Rather they are seeing if it can be fixed first without that step.
@@yasdnil67 I hope that's true. Some of these problems have been with us for decades and so far, no real changes have happened--in fact, it's getting much worse as time goes on.
@@yasdnil67 and in the meantime the spiritual casualty list get longer and longer.
Sorry to contradict, but I have communicated with Elder Gilbert, the Commissioner of Education, and he is NOT fighting hard on these issues. His comments to me were lackluster at best and I haven't seen any significant changes at any of the schools. I sincerely wish he would start fighting. We are losing young men and woman at an alarming rate and there are professors at our colleges that are teaching philosophies in direct contradiction to LDS principals and no one is making any effort to curb their destructive efforts.
There are a number of things happening behind the curtain. Is it enough, I don’t know. But Elder Gilbert is doing more to put BYU down the right path than anyone in decades.
I assumed after elder Holland’s talk last year at BYU that things have to be going on in the background… it would be nice to see some clear direct public corrections
If the Church has to choose between BYU being the “Harvard of the West “ or saving our precious youth I know what choice should be made ! What will it profit Us as We prepare for the second coming to lose the youth ? That should be the priority not academic awards or recognition . We have 10 BYU alumni in our immediate family and it will end there , No one wants the grandchildren there . Sigh
@@CwicShow I hope you’re correct. I have written to Elder Gilbert with specific issues about BYU and all I received is a form letter in return.
@@CwicShow There is a "curtain"? Oh no. That makes me so sad. Why is there even a curtain in the first place? Joseph F. Smith fired several professors during his lifetime for teaching evolution at BYU. What has changed that now the church must apparently be run more like a government that has to pass committees and who knows what to get things done? I really thought after Elder Hollands talk last year something would be done but so far, nothing but our youth are continuing to leave the church in record numbers.
I fully admire this guest. Supernatural conviction far beyond us mere mortals..
Big issue is who wrote the statement and why was it not signed? Also, posted on the newsroom site?
Wouldn’t gospel methodology be some kind of measuring tool to hold accountable what is taught to the doctrine of Christ? If what is taught leads to atheism or goes against the doctrine, how can that be rooted out so it is not taught? Very difficult with how BYU has gone along with secularism for so long.
Excellent video. Thanks.
You’re welcome
I'm just here to remind everyone, NOWHERE in the churches statement did they approve or disapprove of the "Respect for Marriage Act", they merely appreciated the efforts of those trying to bring compromise without stepping on individual rights and religious freedom.
You're not reading it correctly. The lawyers wrote it.
On the date the statement was made, the bill hadn't passed the House and amendments were still being offered in the Senate (though it passed the House a couple of days later.) I don't see the statement as support for an incomplete bill. I believe they were still possibly hoping for stronger protections for religious freedom through the ongoing efforts of some in the Senate. As of today, the bill still hasn't passed the Senate, though it probably will. The Brethren have been consistent in working toward establishing a legal balance between religious freedom and LGBTQ rights. They have also counseled us for years to fight for religious freedom. I, for one, have probably not done enough in that latter effort.
@@CwicShow Meaning?
@@alanwakeley5649 "Cwic" is an Old English word meaning "Alive" or "Intelligent"
So the church doesn't have the courage to just outright support the bill? I doubt that.
This issue reminds me of the issue of plural marriage being compared to the slavery issue. Where the federal government was threatening to seize the Salt Lake Temple and other church properties. Perhaps the church is looking for pre-emptive ability to keep the government out of the Church's business. To uphold the Family Proclamation that marriage is between one man and one woman.
The problem isn’t “the church”, it is who is being employed to work at BYU. I know some wonderful academics and teachers that would love to work there, and are extremely faithful, yet they can’t get the roles they apply for. Shame. Clearly current hiring practices are not yielding the “best fit” staff.
The problem does not reside only with a few bad apple professors. The problem I our involvement with academia.
@@CwicShow fair point. True academia is like ‘true science and true religion’. It’s perfectly fine in the same sphere. The problem is the academics keep moving with the tide that’s flowing to the left.
Interesting discussion. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Perhaps, there is more to this than is apparent to the mortal mind. Perhaps, this new stand is to blunt a blitzkrieg by the Adversary. In other words, perhaps this will soon be an existential issue, just as the continuation of the practice of plural marriage was in the 1880s. The aspiration for BYU to be "Harvard West" has been around since at least the 1970s. For Harvard to one day aspire to become "BYU-East" is more consistent with President Kimball's and Elder Holland's vision.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, but it was left to folks like Greg to discuss and parse when the message should have been clearer. The first sentence of the announcement was clear but the remainder sowed confusion.
@@joepiloto "The Proclamation on the Family" is a trial of faith to those on the Left (the Right can't see why it should be), and this stand may be a trial of faith to those on the Right (the Left can't see why it should be). The Lord has stated two poles and given us agency; it's up to each of us to negotiate within ourselves our stance in relation to them.
These times, they are a changin'
Greg, I just read again Lehi’s dream and Nephi’s interpretation in my daily study of the Book of Mormon this week. I was especially intrigued by what Nephi taught was the gulf that separated the wicked from the righteous. Two meanings were given, sin and the justice of God. Today we hear about unity, inclusion, belonging, acceptance, tolerance, kindness, and the marginalized. All of these words are being redefined to accept sin and deny the justice of God. Now go and read what Alma taught Corianton who did not understand the justice of God. Alma taught that mercy cannot rob justice. The reason why there is not unity, inclusion, belonging, acceptance, tolerance, and why people are marginalized is because of sin and justice and that gulf better always be there in a righteous church. Perhaps we better learn to stop treating the Book of Mormon lightly, not only to say but to do, for we are under condemnation.
O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility. This is at the heart of the battle within the church today.
Today, we teach a Teddy Bear Jesus. All mercy, no justice.
One of my BYU religion professors from years ago (73-77) taught our class that whenever the Lord sets up a program (or principle or truth) the Adversary will "set up shop" right next-door. That's becoming more and more apparent.
54:12. & 1:05:20.
A restoration of Classical LIBERAL ARTS? This is beginning to sound like Jordan Peterson. And looking at him instead of Kendi would be a much better Direction than we've been going!
"Reconnection with the liberal-arts ... provides a BRIDGE to a Gospel methodology. " 1:06:18
1:07:10
To stop a train going 80 miles an hour requires redirecting it up a grade. It has to be made uncomfortable or difficult or inconvenient to the establishment. Gospel methodology requires SACRIFICE. Maybe the "cost" of some of the "perks of prestige" needs to be addressed? Again, How can the faith of the student be boosted? That they be the focus?
Does this sound familiar? Is sacrifice preceded by OBEDIENCE? Is sacrifice followed by CONSECRATION? Is this not "Gospel methodology?"
They need more than a rebuke from Elder Holland … perhaps the woke admin getting the axe
They must be driven out by the sacrifice of low pay.
Great show again, Greg. Thank you!
Just wondering about one thing: You said that President Worthen is doing a great job. Elder Holland said the same thing in his recent BYU talk to faculty. How do I reconcile those sentiments with all of the progressive / secular movement that you have been making us aware of all year?
To my mind, either President Worthen is responsible or he’s complicit. Or is it possible that he’s neither and is merely impotent? None of those seems like “great work” to me.
I would say he is neutral. That may not be what is needed right now. These are simply opinions of course. I know the Brethren are making changes.
Another poignant conversation. Great to hear the thoughts of an insider.
The guest stated a set of statistics about the countries trend toward left leaning professors and that church sponsored schools were probably lagging behind. It prompted the memory that a poll on the Provo campus in 2020 the students would have elected Bernie Sanders at that time. We may be lagging behind on staff but the message appears to be received right on par.
The guest used the phrase, “a call to repentance” in relationship to the educational staff heralded by the current addresses from the general authorities. Is it possibly that, if as suggested, the protection to religious organizations become just, “words on paper” and tax protection is removed that we as a religious body lose the blessing of church sponsored formal education. A tragic and sad result of not heeding the call to repentance?
As many have already sighted and suggested the parallels to late period Book of Mormon history I hope such a scenario does not play out. But it sounds like there may be a large group of educational staff that are confident in tempting the Lord on this matter.
A very sad state of affairs.
Another fantastic show Cwic very well done.
How is professionalization and prestige at BYU different from priestcraft in the order of the Nehors ?
Priestcraft has to do with requiring money for priesthood acts.
Reminds me of Nibley at commencement
@@CryptoSurfer yes! I was thinking about that recently.
@@CwicShow That is true. But can "Priestcraft" be interpreted more broadly ?
Does "priestcraft" go away just because the culture changes and "priests" give way in their numbers for those with secular titles?
The religion of academia does not call their promoters "priests" but their prostelyters are still their "clergy" in a sense of what their function is. And what is their function?
Do they promote the welfare of Zion as a true teacher of The Doctrine of Christ would?
Or do they promote their own? Do they instead set themselves up as a light to the world? Do they get gain from their employ? Do they instead seek the praise of the world? Isn't that what the Order of Nehors did in their attempt to re-frame arguments and corrupt the minds of the saints? - 2 Ne. 26: 29
As long as BYU has tomfoolery like the “office of belonging “ it will not progress with its mission
To be learned is good if they hearken to the counsels of God…teach truth… love truth… absolute truth rather than the world’s relative truth or “my truth”. The glory of God is intelligence… light and truth. Some things that are taught chase out light and invite darkness. Higher and holier ways…how to be in the world not of the world and shed the natural man. If we are to prepare the world for the Lord’s return, we need to stop allowing the distraction of the world take us off course. Maybe that’s the Gospel Methodology is learning how to overcome the world and learn how to let God prevail on our campus, in our instruction, in our classrooms, in our dialogue and debates…
I would agree
Doesn't "Gospel methodology" include humble obedience, sacrifice and consecration?
If BYU, and the Church for that matter, cannot or will not defend CORE principles and doctrines of the restored fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, including the principles of the New and Everlasting Covenant, that of Celestial Marriage, then it will have entirely failed in its purpose, and cannot be distinguished as the true and living church. I am not willing that this should be the case. I will not let it happen, beginning with myself. And I intend that as many as will live up to what the Gospel requires do just that. We must do more than we have been doing.
I admit I haven't done an in-depth review of the Church's statement about the Support of Marriage Act but when I read it I was not offended by it. I am an ardent supporter of traditional family and of the Proclamation on the Family, but what I came away with in the statement of support was that the Church leaders see a larger issue here, and that is religious freedom. It appears that through their efforts, statements of support for relgious freedom were strengthened in the law itself and in the long run that will be of greater importance than the fact that the act protects the "rights" of anyone to marry anyone they wish. It's likely that we will still see attacks on religious freedom despite the "guarantees" offered in the Support of Marriage Act. All too often words on a page, particularly a political document, offer nothing substantial when the next "wind of political doctrine" blows through. If words on the page were really all we needed, then the First Amendment, which is so abundantly clear to me in meaning and purpose, would instantly discourage political interlopers from trying to interfere with religious freedom from the halls of Congress.
Who in the world would want to be The Harvard of the west???? I don’t look at that as a good goal:(
I was always under the impression that this was Stanford's goal.
When I was attending BYU back in the late 70’s early 80’s they used to say that a lot on BYU campus. I walked around the Harvard campus while in HS prior to attending BYU and I was astounded that anyone would want to emulate what I saw walking around that campus. It appears that after many years BYU has finally attained its long sought after goal. Congratulations- I guess.
From polygamy, to priesthood for all worthy males regardless of race, to now the apparent acceptance of same sex marriage, notwithstanding the first sentence of the recent statement, critics of the Church keep getting what they need to accuse the Church of flip flopping and bowing to pressure from activists within the ranks, which they then use to foster doubts about the claim of ongoing prophecy.
That is a problem when family members etc have stuck by the standards of the Church…NOT unkindly …only to have the Church change them . Perhaps We ARE a few months or years from gay temple marriage ? As one with gay family members that I have loved and included ( but stayed by the Church ) it will be difficult to understand .
Thanks!
You’re welcome. And thank you!
To be in the world but not of the world.
Thank you for your incredible insight
I’m just wondering for the sake of wondering….
The doctrine says that the Lord will remove prophets / leaders if they lead the church astray. That said, how would that happen?
Again, I’m not suggesting anything, I’m only just stating it “aloud”…. Would the Lord remove unworthy leaders by.. sickness or death? Would he remove them by revealing them to be inadequate? Or would he remove them by expecting members to NOT sustain them?..
Excellent point and excellent question. It would be awesome if Greg dedicated a video on this topic.
Does the doctrine say that though? I’ve only found an old quote from a member of the 12 saying the current prophet couldn’t lead the church astray. People have parroted that statement ever since. Is that considered doctrine? Seems like the scriptures support more a view of people “awakening to their awful situation”, realizing they had trusted someone or something more than direct faith in the Lord. I don’t know the right answer (or the answer to your more specific question) but I do wonder if we’re wrong about the prophet not being able to mislead (intentionally or not).
Check D&C 107. We have a check and balance system similar to the Constitution of the United States. But that is NOT an issue currently.
@@CwicShow thanks Greg! That’s a long section, but I’m definitely going to dig in and study it.
@@wendiesanders6581 This comment takes the quote about our "awful situation" from Ether 8 out of context. That refers specifically to a secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all nations. I hardly think that can be applied to anything going on within the Church.
Addendum: I just discovered that King Benjamin uses the "awful situation" phrase in Mosiah 2 regarding those who have fallen into transgression to encourage his listeners to be obedient. Still doesn't apply, IMO.
Ralph is brilliant and one of the few true conservatives...maybe five left, outside of certain Brethren...in the Church.
It was great to hear the experience of 30 years at BYU and what may be the consequences of this recent legislation.
Just out of interest. Hills Dale offers 100s of classes you can take for free online. Check it out of you'd like to learn at a college level just for the knowledge. I love it!!! U do not get college credits with their classes.
@@franciegwin you work for Hill Dale?
@@MrBillmechanic Pensacola State is just fine right now.
@@bradhardisty1652 Do you mean Hillsdale in Michigan? He rarely accepts invitations but Jordan Peterson went there and spoke for their Spring Commencement exercises. A great speach. There is a school with a mission!
@@rconger24 I didn't even aak about it. My post waa not about school.
I hope the lord comes soon. Deliver us from this hell.
AMEN !
When something comes out from the Church Newsroom, it should be signed by whomever made the statement. Homosexuality is clearly a sin, along with pedophiliac, adultery, fornication, and bestiality. Why emphasize that we should love the sinner, of one of these sins, without saying all sinners of sexual sin should be loved, and helped back into full membership. They all have the same thing in common, which is they are a breach of God's boundaries. They are all caused by a lack of control of, first thought, and then action. As the Bible says, He does "not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance". There has got to be much more clarity, and a grouping of all these sexual sins, when talking on this subject.
@everyday tenor so would you allow a sexual deviant work at the day care center where you leave your kids? Would you let one baby sit in your home. My point is; there is a crossover area with legal and love. Your adversaries know this well and using it to do their missionary efforts to convert you and your children.
We use to be peculiar now we are like a low esteem high school girl who compromises herself just to have some affection and acceptance
Certainly some of that going on.
Good topic. Go at the root of corruption. I salute your efforts.
...
it would be as easy as banning rainbow propaganda on campus.
Up until the 1960s most states did have laws against adultery.
I would not trust a general who commits adultery to have the scruples necessary to commit Infantry. Do we not remember The Charge of the Light Brigade?
In his book "In Seach of Truth," John A Widtsoe says "Every person of honest mind loves truth above all else. In the proposed exchange of the new for the old, religion has often been in apparent conflict with science. Yet, the conflict has only been apparent, for science seeks truth, and the aim of religion is truth. That they have occupied different fields of truth is a mere detail. The Gospel accepts and embraces all truth; science is slowly expanding her arms, and reaching into the invisible domain, in search of truth. The two are meeting daily; science as the child; religion as the mother. Earnest attempts at reconciliation are rewarded with full success. . . Truth is truth, whether labeled science or religion."
I hope that you’re not equating “science” with evolution. Evolution is a pagan religion and, unfortunately, many intellectuals within the Church have fallen for it.
I graduated BYU 1971 - graduate work from USC. I have watched this transformation to Progressive philosophies for the last 50 years. I also was taught by two hard-core Progressive relatives since 1971. The progressive movement was started by educators in the ivy league universities in the late 1800s. They named their ideas progressivism to progress away from the "flawed ideas of the Founding Fathers and progress toward a utopian society they would create". In the 50s, the progressives focused on placing all their new recruits in departments of education, communication, and political science in all the colleges and universities in the country. By the 1980s progressives controlled those positions nationwide. Their efforts were to educate teachers, media, and Hollywood within 1 to 2 generations. Socialism, fascism, and Communism all came from progressivism. The leftists and the democrat party are well along to creating a fascist dictatorship to replace our Constitutional Republic. They are so excited to implement a digital currency in the next year or two to replace our dollar, because it will give them complete control over each and every one of us. (mark of the beast?)
Look a little deeper into the Frankfurt School in Germany where Marxism was refined and these critical and progressive ideologies were developed.
Abomination, your guest has said,
“And the LORD said, Because the outcry against the Univerity of BYU is great, and because their sin is very grievous;”
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against the Univerity of BYU is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward the university of Byu, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing-to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the university of BYU, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
I know that Utah did have a law against adulatory. I don't know if it is still on the books.
Why not require an ecclesiastical endorsement for teachers? It's required for church member students correct?
Something similar is now in place for new hires. Ecclesiastical endorsements are not that difficult to get.
In short men lie, even to ecclesiastical authority.
I went to BYU from 1964 to 1971. These things were not a concern. My daughter went there in the mid-'90s. She had her sons and daughters go to BYUI specifically due to the problems that are being discussed here at BYU. Sad comment on the situation.
Your guest made a point about how Trump is bad in political discussion because of his rhetoric. Personally, I did not like his posts or his speeches. However, he knew which way was the right direction in terms of policy. How convenient to ignore the rhetoric of the left which is precipitating this discussion. With his accommodation of leftists he opens the way to always ignore anyone from the right. Really poor academics on his part and a lack of impartiality and adherence to the 1st Amendment.
You misheard him.
@@CwicShow You are right, I did. I apologize.
@@larrybates8291 Thanks for watching. I really appreciate it.
I don’t think I misheard him. I was a little taken back when he was saying that Trump support is a problem. I don’t like Trump’s personality or his rhetoric, but I saw way too many of my “sophisticated” and “academic” fellow members that hated Trump so much that they supported Biden and many democrats. They are allowed to tell you how wonderful they are for doing so, but I am never allowed to reveal that I’m conservative and voted for Trump. This guy came across as one of those members. Complain about Babylon while happily voting for its success!
Trump had good policies because of his staff.
There has always been an issue between academia and religion. Religion via our Church was to bring them together UNDER the umbrella of concept of GodHead with plan and purpose for the individual as a child of God. Academic, second. What is happening to the inspiration of leadership to do this academic excuse making. Wow!!! Really watching this. Gospel is Truth, academia sits under that. We are not a theology but has to align together not juxtaposed.
Did not mean to be!
When you say we will never get this right where is the faith that God will help us get it right we are giving up without asking God to help us
After about 35 years of active Church membership -- WE ARE SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATING WHETHER TO CONTINUE TITHING. Have very strongly-held beliefs that our Father & Christ support only monogamy. Similarly, we don't believe our Father or Christ supported the Priesthood ban. We believe the Church's past policies in these two areas were attributable to fallible prophets.
More recently, BYU Provo's tolerance (in the name of compassion & understanding) of CRT & aspects of the LGBTQ agenda have caused us grave concern. Consider, for example, BYU's Office Of Belonging. Our tithing donations are funding such.
The Church's recent support for the Respect for (including same sex) Marriage Act MAY become the final determinant in our Tithing decision.
We have corresponded with the Vice President of the Office of Belonging, our Bishop, our Stake Presidency, and, more recently the Church's Public Affairs Department. We've not received any replies from our Bishop, Stake President, Public Affairs Department, or Dallin Oaks (who spear-headed the Church's support for the Marriage Act).
We are asking ourselves how we can support a Church that is advocating/tolerating values we consider inconsistent with Christ's teachings. We would appreciate conversations addressing the aforementioned. We are are seeking clarity.
Paying your tithing has less to do with the church and everything to do with your relationship with God.
I fully understand your concern about tithing. But paying tithing is a commandment of God. If the leaders misuse those funds, they will be accountable.
Do you think the woke side is being viewed as religious freedom? "...let them worship how where or what they may"
No. Anyone that has a rudimentary understanding of the left that is behind the woke movement knows that it's about control and subjugation of those that don't accommodate its desires. It is Marxist-like division for purposes of control. One can pretend that's religion, but in reality it's priest craft to cajole and control.
There are a lot of different factions, but I think this is the biggest one. Some are trying to tear the Church and its school down from the inside, but some are just trying to be tolerant to the point of allowing BYU to fall apart.
Could what we see be so much virtue signaling?
Only very few saints showed up to ever defend the family. The only actual fighters I saw were outside the LA Temple and some of those guys went to jail when certain deviants had it coming. The men in Israel haven't defended anything since Missouri.
I was eating lunch with another professor and you won't believe what kind of music they were playing in the cafeteria it was terrible
Old Country?
@@CwicShow "let the bodies hit the floor" which was the tamest one i heard
@@MrBillmechanic the church shouldnt be the opposition
Very interesting
When you mention a gospel methodology, and that a precise definition of that actually constitutes hasn't been well presented, I am a bit shocked in all honesty. A Gospel Methodology, has been and ought to be a meta-methodology, or rather a screen through which you evaluate the credit of a particular methodology. I am a biochemist, so my approach to the scholarly is very different from that of social scientists, who are particular peddlers and simultaneous victims of the pernicious doctrines espoused by the academy. I can explain by example.
In the past, I have taken a few sociology classes in my undergraduate education. I was astounded at how easy such classes were when all you had to do was learn the overarching narrative peddled by the professor and apply it to whatever situation you were put in front of. Compared to equivalent level classes in Organic Chemistry, Physics or Biology, it required minimal and trivial effort. That being said, they were not totally devoid of useful information and rigour, but to find it you would have to go back to the 40s and 50s. Sociology went off the rails when it began to dismiss the tools of structural functionalism as a potential route to uncovering sociological truths, and the reasons for its diminishment are not very good in my estimation. After that, a whole zoo of methodological approaches cropped up that essentially allowed "scholars" to interpret the world and their data however they chose to, whereby they chose whatever method or philosophy that would support their particular world-view. Critical, Feminist and Queer theory are offspring of this diversification, likely due to the invasion of post-modern thought. What much of sociological academia failed to do was establish a meta-standard by which they could test the various methods and perspectives that were developed, so that critical discourse (not to be confused with critical theory) could be undertaken about sociological topics. As a result, only sociology that uses hard mathematics and rigourous data collection should even be remotely counted on, all else is complete rubbish. No meta-standard, no science.
The meta-standard is simple, to seek light and truth. Once you personalize truth, or monopolize light to yourself or the manufacture of your own will, you've lost the plot. The hard sciences (STEM,...etc) do a far better job of this, where we assume truth beyond the personal, and are disallowed a monopoly on the interpretation of data or its correct interpretation. I have to work very hard to "stuff the gaps" in my research, elsewise, my colleagues will not take it seriously. Any new method of investigation, by new technology or algorithms has to be compared to previously evaluated standards, and even then, doubt and scrutiny are applied heavily, till numerous experiments and prods have been performed. The social sciences lost their way when they supposed that the facts revealed to them were too impersonal, too condemning of the unfortunate and too favourable to the fortunate. They ceased seeking after light and instead tried to imitate it.
all truth comes from one place. we can discover better, by obedience to the laws we know. bring the world back to the truth by living it, not pacifying the ideas that lead away from the truth. broad is the way. if we look close, it is easy to see how we started out with pure truth and then deviated away from it. we created our own truths and have faltered as a result of this deviation. go back to the beginning.
Yes, obedience. Are there also principles of sacrifice and consecration? Are these not Gospel methodology?
@@rconger24 yes.
The church has never had religious freedom. we have always been told by the government on what to do. Sense the days of Joseph the government has pressured and attacked the church for its beliefs. Even when the church was not apart of the Union in Utah they still couldn’t live free.
Do you mean like the Jews under roman rule? Yeah, it's happened before and yet in the end Christ always finds a way to prevail. Hmmm, almost like he planned it all out from the beginning.
Lds are making a much bigger deal about this than is necessary. Carry on living YOUR covenants and you will be fine.
Yeah mmmmm not so much. You may be fine with that for a while. Your adversaries will not be content with letting you alone with your convictions. Their strategy is to convert you and your children. Lack of contending on your part is a sign of weakness to them, an invitation for further assault.
Are they? Or are you failing to see why it's a big deal? If only it were so easy as to just worry about oneself, as if we are isolated and insulated from society at large. It's akin to saying just worry about your own household rules, and don't worry about government, ignoring the inevitable implications that impact one's household. It's a bigger deal than most LDS realize imo.
@@charinabottae follow the prophet brother. Are you listening to his current messages?
@@andrewwood6285 we shall see
@@Heartsinmelody Absolutely. He's clear on loving our brothers and sisters who "struggle" with same sex attraction. He's clear on avoiding hate/division/contention in our hearts. It's also painfully obvious he is NOT advocating acceptance of same sex marriage. Nor repealimg the Proclamation on the Family. He's warning that the adversary is exponentially increasing his attacks, which is directly speaking to gender ideology, among other facets. Thanks for your concern, but I'm completely aware of everything he's said publicly for the last 4.75 years. And that's why I stand for the family, not for moral relativism substitutes for family.
I didn't realize so many members oppose separation of church and state. Render unto Caesars that which is Caesar's
Every law has a moral basis. Separation of church from state is not the same as separation of morality from state. We can and should still vote according to our moral concsciences.
@@Ratlarva Why be authoritarian with your personal morality though? Isn't freedom and pursuit of happiness more important than controlling others?
@@spencer.ecclesIf you believe in what you say, why resort to ad hominims in an attempt to quash another's alternate point of view? You preach radical libertian ideas, but don't act it out.
As we all know, the Constitution does not provide for a separation of church and state, as understood by Justice Black in Emerson vs. Board of Education. That there must be a “wall of separation” was his opinion and found nowhere in the Constitution.
Moreover, BYU is not a secular institution, and students who attend both know this and accept it as a fact of their admittance. There is no hypothetical wall or separation. We are not “Caesar’s.”
The great secret of "Render unto Caesars that which is Caesar's" is that nothing belongs to Caesar; everything belongs to God.
I believe that any parent who sends their child to any school has the responsibility to have taught their child the beliefs of the family such that no matter what comes at them they can be rooted in the family's beliefs. Students have the right to stand up for their beliefs. They can tell professors that what they are teaching is wrong. We need to get away from trying to control others with legislation and teach that everyone has agency to choose. Teach as the Savior taught. Love our enemy, do good to those that will use you. We don't have to become like everyone else. No matter what someone is trying to get you to believe we have the ability to turn to God and have him teach us. That is the message of President Nelson. We need to learn from the greatest teacher ever. And we should love others even when they are doing wrong. That doesn't mean that we have to embrace what they are doing and become like them. We don't know when they will realize the sin and turn their heart and life over to God. Let us all stand firm in the faith. The scriptures tell us that this will get worse. But that people will look to Zion and fear or say "let us to up to Zion". I hope to be a Zion person. Maybe that's naïve but I believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the first presidency even if I don't understand. And I believe I have the responsibility to think for myself and pray on those things and seek the guidance from the Lord.
I guess you miss the point. The whole purpose of our Church educational institutions is to have a place where they will be protected from Wokeism, and Communistic ideas that have infiltrated other learning institutions. Since this is a Chuirch supported institution (BYU), our children, and grandchildren, look upon anything coming from the mouths of these professors is either Church Doctrine, or Church sanctioned. If BYU can't help strengthen, or build testimonies, of Latter-day Saint youth, then why should The Church waste our Tithing money on it, because it would be no better than what they get at any other University.
If these misled, rebel, professors can't be reigned in, corrected, or fired, then our tithing money would be far better spent building: Temples; Institute Buildings; Seminary Buildings; and Chapels, where the pure word of God can be taught, and Latter-day Saints can be uplifted, and brought closer to Our Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, without Wokeism, and Communistic Ideas, to shake, or destroy their faith. We must have a clear sight of the enemies of our faith, without having the enemy within our midst, for Wokeism, and Communism, are tools of Satan. We can't come to the conclusion, that "we have met the enemy, and he is us" (Walt Kelly). We have enough challenges before us, without internal strife. Our whole purpose is to become one. The Lord said, “If ye are not one ye are not mine” (D&C 38:27)
I don't think it's sufficient any longer to just teach correct principles. Now, they must be inoculated against the prevailing ideas of the day (gender ideology being a current hot one).
I think what you say sounds good, but it is hard to put into practice, especially when a professor controls your future through your GPA. Most scholastic interactions are actually heresay, and if you don't record every conversation it would be very easy for words to be twisted or denied, leading to wrongful termination lawsuits, etc. I agree with everyone who has stated its too bad BYU allowed itself to become so secularized over the past several decades.
Ì would rather speak up and get a flower grade then cave to the pressures of the world and lose my soul. If enough students did the schools would get the message.
Hillsdale College can do it. BYU-P and its sister institutions should be able to do it too. They should not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. I am not at all pleased that some of our tithing dollars go to the BYUs in their current state.
My view, just as the Covid statement was men’t to get the Temples open. ( look at the Church’s Chang from polygamy to monogamy ) It’s all about keeping the temples open. This in no way means we need to embrace same sex marriage.
Never go against what the Lord is saying because if we do we are on the start of a slippery slope
You guys are dancing around the issue. The good professor there is talking in circles and not saying anything really. He'll probably get his butt fired if he speaks clearly about the subject, so it's understandable. I'm a BYU grad from 1982 and based on what I'm hearing here, the campus isn't what it used to be, nor is the leadership. Of course, the times we are living in are slightly different too. I just wish we could continue to preach that we despise the sin, of whatever type, but love the sinner, like Christ did and does. Keep it simple.
As soon as the church put that out about accepting the same sex marriage. People will miss understand the standing of the church. I am talking about people of other religions will assume something else
1:03:23. Only Jesus can be truly equitable. No man or business possesses the ability to evaluate all factors in a person's life that have directly or indirectly effected the person. So why do the mention it? I see more businesses moving away from the equity term.
There may be a few, but most are moving toward it. If it is not found in their DEI (DI) title, it is. Found in their policies and literature.
@@CwicShow totally agree.
Just be truthful and honest: I do not support same sex marriage, period! It's that simple.................
How much does this decision got to do with taxes? doesn't the gov. has the power to take away your church tax status if you don't conform to their laws?
Some, but note the most important thing.
Wait, is he saying that Trumpism is a bigger threat than secular leftism?
No. He’s saying academia thinks it is.
its a delight that academia
nationwide is failing due to similar
infiltration for decades... will BYU
die out first or the general assumption
that a college education is worthwhile?
1:03... nope
its D-I-E since they purposely
try to make it "of God" in a poke
at those who consider it blasphemy
I continue to be uncomfortable with this leaning while continuing to trust the Church leadership.
By that I mean the leaning away from the church’s traditional doctrine on the family.
I believe this legislation will ensure ‘peace in our time’
Seriously it’s simple follow God he told us it’s an abomination!
Point Blank: The Post War Generation’s wealth made them soft and they were seduced by Baal (psuedoscience cloaked in sophistry and titled like “academia”). Soft people cannot defend themselves, let alone the faith, therefore, This softness created another war, the culture war. The younger generation that grew up in this war, already battle-born and scarred, is stronger and waiting to fight. Pride and technology keep the useless older generation in power, pointing its tent toward Sodom but it cannot last forever. The only question is how much damage the weak and wealthy will do to the church before they finally all pass and will there be any recognizeable difference between BYU/the church and any basic secular organization/university by then.
I can agree with a number of your anti-boomer/GenX statements, but your generation needs to take responsibility as well. The problem is not “out there” for any of us.
Should we put our heads in sand and let evil prevail? Our voice has been taken away
Domo arigato n noki moro na mari kyo su zu bo shi kyo mo gi ji ho tsu.
As liberal as BYU is, I don't see the reason to go to the school. I am a member of the church as well, but to question the politics of the school, removes the spiritual side.