DISTURBING Protoss strategy has returned. StarCraft 2 (new patch)
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2023
- StarCraft 2 Tournament 2023 World Team League Kung Fu Cup - Stats returns to form vs SC2 world champion Oliveira in this epic Protoss vs Terran series!
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StarCraft 2 Legacy of the Void - World Team League Tournament 2023 - Kung Fu Cup - Oliveira (Terran) vs Stats (Protoss)
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Starcraft 2 is a Science Fiction Real Time Strategy & Tactics game by Blizzard Entertainment. Download and play free at www.starcraft2.com
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#Starcraft2 #SC2 #RTS - Ігри
Game 1 might actually be the most "I DIDN'T HEAR NO BELL" brawl I've seen in SC2 in YEARS
Also Oliveira tapped out in game 3 because he knew Stats got at least a dozen workers out of the base, but had ZERO workers left. Even if they had equal armies at that point, even with 800 minerals in the bank, Oliveira was restarting his economy from ZERO workers. The game was very over.
Edit: Basically I think the moment Oliveira took out all of the Nexuses and Stats wasn't revealed, he knew Stats had a base that could mine.
@@ElysaraCh bueno, los trabajadores hicieron la diferencia porque el protoss saco unos cuantos a tiempo
Definitely the best game I’ve seen in a long time, usually in fights that are as drawn out as that you see a player make a drastic mistake trying to come back from it because they get overwhelmed but they both just slapped each other over and over. It looked so evenly matched, I loved it lol
Game 1 was some outstanding starcraft.
Pmconstant pressure making teaching not viable. Nice game.
Is this America? Oh I'm sorry I thought this was America
6:50 the comment about the cookie jar sent me. He didn't even get a cookie 😂
Awesome casting Winter TY !!! 26:23 I was screaming at my screen :
" Die Terran die" !!!
Oliveira is good for sure, but damn T holding out a superior economy P isn't balanced at all ! Protoss had to sacrifice so much to prevent the terran from reaching the critical mass, Stats played Protoss like a Zerg here , flooding the field with Zealots and stalkers as if they were zerglings and Hydras !
Oliveira is honestly not that good, just a mediocre player that had a good day that one time.
Terran is just disgustingly overpowered, having accumulated buffs over many patches while the other races keep getting core units nerfed
And the messed-up thing is that this scenario of P having superior economy but needing to spend it all into flooding just to stay alive occurs far too often.
A 3-3 protoss lost a battle to a 3-1 terrain "same tech". That's tha way things roll. ¬¬
Right?! Die freaking OP bio Terran!!! XD WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!?!
You guys don't understand protoss. I am a true random player I play all 3 races, protoss is a race to the late game or a incredibly inefficient mass ball of tier 1 units.
Protoss is able to use its chrono boost to push out like 60 probes in the time it takes to push out 40 scv. This gives them an incredible advantage .
11:48 That s my problem. Protoss had had superior positioning, economy, army supply and upgrades, had better positioning, had managed to avoid the sorround, and still gets destroyed by a terran that has been behind the entire game. That wasn´t oliveira using his superior skills to make up for the early game, that was just terran having better units....
Correct
It's sad to see 2 ghosts for 4 supply total taking out close to half of the HP of the 100+ supply toss army with 2-3 EMP while 5 disruptors for 20 supply basically only even traded out for 20 ish supply of bio.
@@bluerendar2194 aparte que ese se puede esquivar estando atento, contra el fantasma no. Espero mínimo a que agreguen buffos al disruptor como mínimo una mejora que incremente la velocidad de la bola o alcanze
Ghosts OP like always.
Seriously, are you attempting humor or are you operating with a vision problem, my friend? LOL??? Jokes.....
No actual fighting happened on Stats' part, just the poking-and-back dance until the Terran crept up to the same supply. It's almost as if he was doing it on purpose, waiting for Oliveira to hit max supply before engaging in a fair fight.
I must admit, the utterly groundless drivel and remarks people throw around here regarding the Protoss being weak and the Terrans being overpowered, and not considering the gameplay or the player, that's the real juicy stuff!"
That first game was NUTS, especially the nail biting ending except it was on the edge for what felt like the entire game... SHEESH. I can't imagine how Stats would've felt in that game, probably feeling like he couldn't afford the time to transition away from the robo as his splash when it was neck and neck the entire time. I would've been so frustrated trying to fight the clearly superior bio with your gateway units the entire game and your disruptors just never seeming to do enough. WOW.
Game 1 was a heavy hitter for winter, what a heart-stressing bout
Stats is going for the Zapp Branigan way to win wars.
I´m a simple man. If Winter is having fun, i´m having fun. Great series. Keep´em coming.
I just weant to note that Winters said "He saves the disruptor with a medivac" instead of "Warp Prism at 26:60
I was actually laughing for the last few minutes of that first game. What a fiesta.
It is stupid how mines are so good as a harass unit AND are able to just be spread around the map for scouting + free harass AND are some of the most cost effective AOE burst in fights (they cost almost nothing, oneshot stalkers and deal DMG in about as big an aoe as disruptors. All things considered, I could even see an argument that mines are better than disruptors 1-to-1 as they have guaranteed damage and can't really be microed against)
Game 1 has to be the bloodiest SC2 game I've ever seen. Absolutely amazing!
P.S. Winter I love your intros and outros. They make me laugh every time even when you're begging for likes and subscribes. Don't ever change, unless of course you want to for whatever reason, I'm sure it will only improve things
Props to Oliveira for dodging so many Disruptors, and to Stats for not giving up on using 'em lol
G1 was the most stubborn match I've seen so far, the same unit comp over and over again)
The first two builds I learned those many many years ago: Chargelot Archon and Immortal Sentry all in. Good times.
What would the game look like if widow mines had 0 vision of their own? (Ie, good on defense , but unable to do offense on their own?)
Maybe not 0 vision but like 1 vision so they still fire if you step on them like you'd expect of a landmine. It isn't like losing widow mine drops would exactly make Terran incapable of harassment. They'd still be able to do that just fine. You also wouldn't have to worry so much about random widow mines being scattered about to make the opponent keep watching for them nor would you have to worry about stuff like oracles or phoenixes happening to fly over them except when near the enemy base. I like the idea but never going to happen. Only Protoss and their tempests get that sort of treatment.
Just delete them. Shitty unit that’s disgusting to watch and play.
Yep make Terran unplayable
@@geuros I'd argue that with no widow mines at at high level, Terran has a little bit worse harass than Protoss due to oracle harass. Medivac harass, however, would arguably be still much better than warp prism harassment once you start to get your bread and butter upgrades. The Terran units kill the probes faster. Yes, the warp prism can warp in but if the Terran kept around as much investment in marines as a Protoss needs to in stalkers to defend a medivac with marines or marine/marauder, a warp prism would be pretty hard pressed to manage to actually warp in inside the base. Just to use the games here as reference, I skimmed to the part in game 2 where Stats spotted the widow mine drop. He chose to have 5 stalkers in the main. If we go by supply, that'd be 10 marines. If we go by resource cost that's 17.5. Whether it'd be 10 or 17.5, I think that'd be more than plenty to deflect any warp prism harass. When it isn't widow mines, the defenses vary but they tend to still be in the 4ish stalker range. Furthermore, Terran commonly sends multiple medivacs. This is not so for the warp prism. So I'd say that even if you removed the widow mine from the equation, Terran's ability to harass Protoss still exceeds Protoss' ability to harass Terran for the vast majority of the game.
Note that for purposes of retreating over widow mine cover against banelings, reducing the vision range of widow mines wouldn't disable them as you'd still have the army. The main effects of reducing the vision would be to handicap it against oracles or phoenixes outside the Terran base (because inside the base, they'd have the vision from the SCVs and buildings) and to handicap widow mine harass. Which I might add, would still be doable as long as you keep the medivac in the vicinity. If the Protoss targets the mines, the medivac is fine. If they target the medivac, the mines will have time to burrow because they're not being picked off. This is a significant nerf but as discussed earlier, Protoss already spends more on defending non widow mine drops than Terran would theoretically need to spend to defend any common Protoss mineral line harassment. So I don't think that such a nerf, heavy as it would be, would remotely make Terran unplayable.
@@NevarKanzakiagreed 👍.
I really think the core reason why they can't buff Gateway units too much is because of Warp Gate. The ability to summon anywhere on the map can't really allow for sturdy strong Tier 1 or 1.5 units like the Manlots or Dragoons of BW imho. They instead have to rely too much on powerful but expensive spellcasters like Storm or Disruptors. This makes PvT hard to balance. P is strong af at non-pro levels (I think about half of GM is P? Heard that somewhere) but underpowered at pro level.
Overall, PvT has perfect 50% balance at pro level. Non-pro is never taken into consideration RE balance.
However P is a bit under-powered at the very top in the Premieres, while dominating the Majors.
They can just delete ruptors. Kinda trash at this level and dumb in low level. Not fun imo.
yeah what you need is something like a mid/late game upgrade at Templar archives or twilight council that allows centurions or sentinels (campaign units, basically enhanced zealots) and dragoons buildable from gateways, so you have a reason to not keep them in warpgate mode, or just give them the option to queue stronger units but can only warp in weaker ones (zealots, stalkers, sentries, etc.)
@@chloesmith4065 This is an excellent idea imho. I was thinking something similar. Need something late game to summon stronger gate way stuff. The ability to call in BW-level Zealots or something :D Those Zealots in BW were manly af.
@@_Kroaken_ Agreed. It is their feeble attempt at bringing back the Reaver, but their pride was too hurt to just bring it back after removing it for no reason. Hence the crappier Disruptor was conceived XD
@winter, about the ending: right. no mining, but also: no depots and no workers left. So, no chance of building up again.
"Jimmy, can we stop bringing up bunch of menus, this is not EVE Online"... I cried laughing 😆🤣🤣🤣
olivera in that first game must be like. WHERE ARE ALL THESE ZEALOTS COMING FROM
Winter!! Love your intro, happy to see your videos! : ) Thank you so much for your hard work!
JESUS CHRIST that first game, the PUNCHES both ways, wow I forgot another match like this, it's like they're boxing and hiting each others faces and just punching harder each time. JUST amazing to watch.
I touched myself to that first game. Hardest I've finished in a long time
At some point they are gonna have to deal with PvT balance. It seriously hurt to see pros struggle with basic Terran unit compositions. What a first game! Great casting!
Is it desperately needed? Yes. Will they ever touch Terran’s core composition the same way they did to baneling/disruptor? Probably not.
@@laureloneiros1500 Haha its good to dream but i don't think it will be addressed either. On another topic Microsoft bought Blizzard ... maybe they will give sc2 some fresh love and start working on sc3 ... or maybe they will just let the franchise die. Who knows what the future of this game will be. Lets see. 😅
This is such bad news for gaming. @@CAILZZZ
@@laureloneiros1500 Really the main thing that needs to be urgently dealt with is the widow mine. If anything needs a double-nerf it's that ridiculous unit. The ability to one-shot AoE workers *and* do massive single-target damage? It's a comeback mechanic even more broken than the Disruptor ever was.
Splash should be 35, no bonus against shields. No idea why they have three times the HP of a baneling either.
@@user-nh2bf4to7g Agreed ! Mines are NOT fun, don't require that much skill, and not only they're realtively cheap, but their single target dmg is able to one shot way too many units !
A big nerf to them would be to make their atk cost minerals, similarly to a Reaver Scarab ...something like 25 minerals x atk !
Wow game 1 was insane.
Take a drink everytime Winter calls Stats "Stabs" or "Sass"
Winter woke up: JIMMMMMMY!!!! which games we casting today?
Jimmy:
Winter: yes 🙌 Stats and Oliviera thanks Jimmy now go make me a cup of coffee.
I like that you keep the game sound and music higher than other casters I watch. It helps the immersion a lot!
I did not at all expect an EVE online refference but I'm all for it
That was an absolute BANGER of a first game!
PvT is just getting better and better.
Love the casting.
❤
My god....that first game. Hoooooly shit
MY LIFE FOR AUIR
Aiur I hardly even know her
Tyr aigna
Aiur
Aiur is Just her in general 🤣
This game is wilder than african savana
Olivera had no SCVs at the end of that last game. Even if he had the army to hold he would still have to wait for the command to float across the map before he could even start trying to get anything going again.
Your commentary is exemplary and humorous that it doesn't make these videos seem as long as they are, keep up the good work! 👍
I think that this first game goes to show how protoss has no solutions to break open a terrans defences in the mid/lategame...
Stats was outexpanding, had better upgrades, was the one active on the map and it took him 20 minutes to close a game he had won.
Had it been the terran with such a lead, protoss would have been dead 2-5mn after the fights at best...
Just sad to see protoss in such a state
Game 2 and game 3 prove that widow mine drops with invisibility are completely impossible to deal with if the Terran is semi active on the map and threatens to engage. You're gonna have to micro a fight while pulling probes / splitting while all he did was siege press stim, attack command and drop (which took him 2 clicks to setup) and has the potential to kill an entire mineral line...
Widow mines should be like hellbats, only two of them are allowed in a medivac
Quien diría que el terran está tomando el clásico A+Click 💀
We should remove Terran race at all once for the self-serving protoss player like you mate. It just shows how much issue you have with anything that goes against you. Instead of reflecting on yourself you just keep complaining and crying like a dog, as if Terran has ruined your life, they pop up in your dream and burn your house? LOL Jokes. Just sad to see you in such a state. Get a life, Mate. Shit doesn't just go your way when you complain. As I told you before, go sign up as SCII development team or balance council and make these changes yourself.
Protoss players, it's time to face the facts or you can get stuffed. Once again, we're presented with a game that underlines the near parity between Protoss (P) and Terran (T). A quick look at the trade statistics tells the story - Protoss may lag slightly in trades but maintains firm control over the map.
Game 1: Self-explanatory
Game 2: 37:22 and 37:52 I don't know what happened there, he literally just A-moved or didn't do any control on the Colossus at all. The Colossus was left alone targeting randoms, instead of getting the observer up, he just gave up the game for no reason. Let's also not forget that cannons exist and only cost 150 Minerals and can be built at any time, it only takes like 1-2 seconds to micro.
Game 3: Self-explanatory and remember that Protoss is inherently designed for quicker expansion and production than Terran and such is evident here.
So, there's no need for baseless claims that comparing a 5-base Protoss to a 3-base Terran/ 4-base Protoss to a 2-base Terran or base units are challenging. That argument is just invalid and it's not even funny anymore. More like an excuse to make yourself feel better.
Let's drop the complaints and excuses for the present or future patches, and channel your energy into improving your Macro/Micro/splitting control. Rather than relying on A-move, please just reflect on yourself on what you could have done with your losses. Again, the fight is not about just A-move and who did a better job with the Macro and micro, who did a better job expanding and building a larger army, who did a better job building the "specific" units at a certain point of time in the game. It's also how you position your units across the map. Like literally every single unit including your buildings counts, every mineral and gas, every movement, and damage input or absorbed. Last but not least, how you outplay your opponent psychologically.
nonapa.com/mmrranges
nonapa.com/balance
You'll see that the majority, or at the very least a significant portion, of Grandmaster and Master players are Protoss, boasting win rates consistently exceeding 50% against both Terran and Zerg. This fact already exists since the past seasons. So come on mate, stop crying for F*** sake.
You're making it out as if Stats made no mistakes here. He had a massive economic lead, he should have gotten more tech he refused to use much, actually have continued defensively playing expansion game that won him the first 15…
But his worst mistake was his as soon as the point of the game went where the first army was launched at each other, Stats couldn't help but overreach everytime. Even when he had a small victory attack, let's go here! Nope, and the squad dies. And he did it over and over, instead of you know, actually allowing that superior economy to fully exert itself to max? He would have maxed out much faster than olivera, but wow. Stats, you're the best defensive Protoss. Not needlessly aggro.
I think your statement shows you don't watch many pro games. Stats harassment game was weak and it showed that he's still finding his vibe after being away.
You do know that number of expansions alone doesn't mean anything? He didn't establish an actual eco lead until the late game. Upgrades matter less if you fight into a huge concave, are behind in army supply and fighting defender's advantage.
@@adrianbundy3249 I am making what out? I can make out with you if that is what you are into, Brother. LOL. What am I supposed to gather from this? My apologies, I'm a bit unclear on your message. It does seem like you're reiterating that Stats missed a lot of opportunities to be aggressive in his attack despite having a clear economic and supply advantage. Those brief 3-5 second skirmishes hardly qualify as a substantial engagement. He consistently maintained a sizable 20-supply lead but opted not to fully commit.
STAT! Its been awhile hasn't it? Love his bulding placement, so good!
Latching onto every little detail is watch makes a good caster Winter! Always look forwards to your daily casts, thank you
That first game was really interesting, but it was also kind of hard to watch. Seeing Stats have to micro so hard just to even have a chance of competing with the Terran bioball and still losing even when he had the edge in economy, production, and positioning was _rough_ . Protoss units are just too hyper-specialized and fragile. I feel like Marauders need to have either Stim or the concussive ability taken away (or change how concussive works, like maybe make it ramp up to a cap with consecutive hits instead of the full effect right away). Both together is just too strong when Terran bio is already so mobile. It was sad watching stalkers blink away, just to get chased down and killed anyway because they get grazed by a single marauder shot. I'm glad Stats was able to win, but my lord, did he have to really work for it.
EDIT: Game two was even worse. Having to run around to try and deal with the mines while Oliveira just walks up and murders him.
48:28 Now THAT'S a base trade :D Literally.
I went to enthusiastically hit the like button at the end of the first match. Then I was annoyed that I had already done it, which meant I couldn't do it again.
Great cast as per usual Winter!!!
Clearly we need to buff widowmines to have a gravity field while burrowing that pulls units in for a couple seconds.
"Tell you friends what happened here" lol.@ 12:05
I mean I know I'm old school WoL type, but wouldn't sentries have played a pretty massive role in game 1 with guardian shield and force fields to either trap the army or force pickup?
Idk maybe ghosts would've just crushed them
Nose si el EMP cancela eso
EMP drains energy so you wouldn't be able to cast guardian shield - but if you precast guardian shield before you get EMP'd, it starts up and stays up.
In fact one of the only buffs to Protoss this patch was a +2 second duration to guardian shield, so it's easier to start it before a fight begins.
And yes, an effectively +2 armor / +2 shield upgrade aura helps a lot
That would just compel Terran to make more ghosts to EMP and render them completely useless.
That's not enough! We demand more zealots!
Dude game 1 was RAW. Good fight, and good night.
Keep going Winter! left Netflix aside to watch your cast, instant fun. Thanks !
Imagine if Terran got the new Medivac upgrade in game 1. Feels like a familiar complaint I have had. Or even +3 armour.
WinterStarcraft thanks for being original and fun to listen!! Your videos have very interesting usable info and fun facts!
Oliveira checkmated himself in the third game, he put himself in a position where he had no workers left with a supply block. While Stats kept workers. He could rebuild, while Oliveira couldn't even make a worker. It would take a long time to rebuild, and Oliveira did not have time, Stat could just run his army across and it was a free win.
Fantastic casting on the series!! Game 1 was award worthy. What a slug fest. The medivac upgrade would have made a world of difference in game 1. Please for the love all that is MMM, get the damn upgrade.
that was incredible casting game 1. well done
After watching game 1 I can only assume Blizzard is thinking.. " LET'SBUFF WIDOW MINES AND NERF DISRUPTORS AGAIN!!! "
Imagine disruptors were cloaked and had auto aim.
Give me Zeratul disruptors from co-op and maybe they'd be worth it now for their supply cost. :)
@@azuma9047 algo rotos, pero más o menos se justificaría si tiene mejora y un aumento en costos
Imagine you didn't have to split from guided missiles that not just dmg your army but kill everything in range
Incredible game, incredible casting! WOW!!
This series is absolutetly WILD omg
Omg that first match has got to be one of the biggest slugfest ive seen in a while.
This was just pure enjoyment to watch
I have never watched, nor played SC before, some reason this popped up, Interesting and entertaining 50 minute watch. Even while trying to parse everything out.
Winter's videos are the only videos I actually leave thumbs up. The begging is working it's magic!
pylons are the powerhouse of the protoss
Yes but...do the chickens have large talons?
Game 1 was WW2 Stalingrad battle! OMG
I went from nearly asleep to whisper yelling "lets gooooooo!!! Lets gooooo!!!!!!" As stats won nearly 30 minutes later
Stats took "my life for aiur" literally....RIP the countless zealots
48:20 terran taking the term "base trade" literally
First game was one of the best I've ever seen! And so well called! My wife walked in and asked if everything was OK?
Thatd what I like to see, fighting for a shared base as they both run out of minerals
And here we have some exciting games produced by the balance meta, where-in these exciting games, a protoss player defeats the world champion Terran player, which just proves that Terran is imba and needs nerfs.
greeeeat game 1, totally exciting and great casting Winter
Game of the year game 1, holy man that was so fun to watch
When you have 0 workers left, it's usually time to gg....
Wow, awesome games
Been a minute since I've watched one of your videos. Still absolutely hilarious!
I know there's a lot of "best game" talk, but that game 1 was pretty high up there for me this year. It was dynamic, action-packed, and incredibly close.
from game 1 i've learned even 1 marines boot is an important asset
"disruptor was saved by the medivac"...
heh
The end of game 1 had me afraid Winter might pass out.
I miss seeing the fine delicous cheese of protoss. They have been reduced to zealot wave attacks.
Ohh so cool... where did you find Stats and Time?
those 2 were amazing rolercoster
Is it me or Stats Stalkers micro game 3 is like O_O Long time since Ive seen it at sc2.. Feels good to have a new blood revenant
Feels like oldschool sc2 game!
Man Winter you're getting a nice amount of exposure to your videos you're actually getting those likes and then some, cheers friend! VaeVictis
that was a really good game
Great game. Can't wait to see widow mines finally removed~
Got my cheese and water ready for this one!
Love it!
1st game is Plat at best LOL, they both traded blows like drunk men, really ineffectively! Terran could have used more tanks and mines and firebats followed by BCS raid instead of only abusing stim... Red could have switched to an effective offensive easily rather than spamming zealots (which is really expensive) it only worked because blue was to blind to switch to other unit...
I usually use few colosi and few templar with a large force of stalks to deter terran turtles from expanding and Tempest to keep pressuring them if they send vikings the storms and stalks will get em and if they rush the storms and colosi shine, also micro blink absord damage.
As terran using lots of tanks and few viks will make sure the oponent loses units everytime they give a step while marine drops or bcs hit their main.
First game was delicious
Game 1 shows why Stats is the Shield of Aiur.
lol winter bout had a heart attack lol
Thank You
Om nom nom
Winter, I really love these unorthodox games. I am growing tired of MMW vs blings with vipers
These kind of games just tell me the baneling nerf was silly, considering that mines are still so absurdly powerful. Oliveira was purely outclassed by a superior player on this day.
What a game
I see a game cast by Winter, I sign on click like and watch. That's just how it must be.
Banger
YEAHHHH STATS LETSSS GOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Why don't pros pressure the Higby medevacs?
Gdenatural is so fun map for pros
game 1 was on the edge of your seat hobo knife fight for the gold base i have ever seen.
Bruh what a game