If you are going to rap after cleaning an anchor, this video is technically more less correct. However, the American Alpine club and American Mountain guides association now recommend remaining on belay and being lowered off the anchor. Overall safer and less chance for miscommunication with your belayer.
Another great video here by REI. I'd recommend this one and their rappel video for anyone starting out climbing outdoors. Sure there's little stuff to quibble with in each, but these are clear, concise and better than 90% of the stuff out there.
Why incorporate one of the most dangerous parts of multipitch climbing into single pitch cragging? Rappelling only works if the route isn't overhanging. Lowering works always. If you're climbing single pitch routes, and there are chains, rings, or anything that facilitates lowering, you should lower. It's fewer steps, less gear, and you are never off belay.
I agree that rappelling is more dangerous than lowering, but you don’t know how to set up a rappel from hanging chains? Just sit in your harness attached to your tether direct into the chains. You can do everything necessary to clean an anchor while hanging from the chains
What about lowering at maple canyon? Doesn’t work so well. If you’re going to climb, why not become proficient in a multitude of skills? I don’t believe that keeping people in the dark is ‘safer’ let people learn.
If it "doesn't work so well" in that area, don't lower. I'm not advocating for a myopic ignorance of valuable skills. I'm advocating for using the best method with the fewest potential points of failure.@@baseballdipper111
As far as im concerned, the chainrings/semi fixed gear at the anchor is perfectly fine to be lowered off after top roping on your own gear. That stuff is cheap and can be replaced easily if ever worn out of the years. This seems unnecessary and dangerous, not to mention it involves calculating rope length to reach the bottom.
For the comment below. Uhh.. 4 out of 5 ""American Mountain Guides of America" recommend doing it the way that leads to anchor degradation due to the fact that it's safer. We think? The 5th guy is still stuck on the wall. We have to wait for rescue before we get a 100% consensus. Alright, thanks for the input man.
People have died rappelling off the ends of their ropes. It is safer to get in the habit of always knotting the end of the rope instead of only doing it when you think that you might need to.
Rope shift in the device can cause asymmetrical strand length, if you run through one side before the other your rope will zip through the anchor at the top and you will fall
It's a safety habit to to get into so that accidents don't occur. You can't always see or communicate with a partner below you that the ends of the rope are both at the bottom. Sometimes rope gets stuck in a tree, on a ledge, etc. so you don't know if it'll reach properly. Rope shifts the mid point as you use it due to various forces being exerted on it (maybe one side has a bit more friction from your hardware, the rock, a tree, etc.). Sometimes the rope reaches the ground with only a few feet extra left, so any amount of shift could offset it enough to become a problem. I haven't multi-pitched yet, but someone has to rappel first with no one below in a multi-pitch rappel. It's kind of like why we climb with a rope in the first place; sure, you may be able to free solo it, but accidents happen and accidents in climbing are usually deadly.
lol, just watched a video that did the exact oposite. they lowered using the fixed gear and pointed out to only call for slack, never go off belay xD - I'm a noobie, so who is right?
It depends. In general lowering is safer, but there are times when rappelling is nice; multipitch requires rappel, and if it’s towards the end of the day you can rap while your partner cleans up and gets ready to head out
I agree with Dawson. Lowering off the fixed gear is generally safer and is fine to do, but rappelling is useful to know too. If you are newer to climbing, definitely start with lowering off the fixed gear. Just don't top rope off the fixed gear; always setup a proper anchor, because while your temp anchor can be replaced, it can sometimes be a long time before fixed gear gets replaced once worn down.
her PAS, while connected to two pieces of fixed gear (the two chain links), still has a single point of failure: the hitch/tether. Are people not concerned about that? What about having two tethers, where each tether goes to a different piece of fixed gear? Real world example where using a single point of failure anchor would have lead to a death (I know it's not a PAS, but still gets my point across): www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110088639/rock-fall-results-in-chopped-anchor
@@michaelsawatzky6052 Make sure to learn that knot well if you intend to use it, doing it wrong can create a knot that will easily invert and pull untied.
This video has some inaccurate info in it. You don't rappel to avoid damaging your rope(lowering doesn't), it's to avoid excess wear on the fixed gear. While rappelling is the preferred ethic in most areas, in some areas, like the Red River Gorge, it's acceptable to lower for cleaning due to the steepness of the routes. Also, you should always weight your PAS before going off belay, don't just tug on it like she does in the video.
If you are going to rap after cleaning an anchor, this video is technically more less correct. However, the American Alpine club and American Mountain guides association now recommend remaining on belay and being lowered off the anchor. Overall safer and less chance for miscommunication with your belayer.
Exactly
Gotcha, thanks for the info.
Another great video here by REI. I'd recommend this one and their rappel video for anyone starting out climbing outdoors. Sure there's little stuff to quibble with in each, but these are clear, concise and better than 90% of the stuff out there.
Why incorporate one of the most dangerous parts of multipitch climbing into single pitch cragging? Rappelling only works if the route isn't overhanging. Lowering works always. If you're climbing single pitch routes, and there are chains, rings, or anything that facilitates lowering, you should lower. It's fewer steps, less gear, and you are never off belay.
I agree that rappelling is more dangerous than lowering, but you don’t know how to set up a rappel from hanging chains? Just sit in your harness attached to your tether direct into the chains. You can do everything necessary to clean an anchor while hanging from the chains
What about lowering at maple canyon? Doesn’t work so well. If you’re going to climb, why not become proficient in a multitude of skills? I don’t believe that keeping people in the dark is ‘safer’ let people learn.
If it "doesn't work so well" in that area, don't lower. I'm not advocating for a myopic ignorance of valuable skills. I'm advocating for using the best method with the fewest potential points of failure.@@baseballdipper111
As far as im concerned, the chainrings/semi fixed gear at the anchor is perfectly fine to be lowered off after top roping on your own gear. That stuff is cheap and can be replaced easily if ever worn out of the years. This seems unnecessary and dangerous, not to mention it involves calculating rope length to reach the bottom.
For the comment below. Uhh.. 4 out of 5 ""American Mountain Guides of America" recommend doing it the way that leads to anchor degradation due to the fact that it's safer. We think? The 5th guy is still stuck on the wall. We have to wait for rescue before we get a 100% consensus. Alright, thanks for the input man.
Why would rappelling down be less wear on the fixed gear than being lowered down on belay?
With rappelling, the rope doesn't move through the anchors while it's weighted.
Outdoor Research does better videos for anchoring and cleaning
what's the point of making end rope knots if they touch the floor...?
People have died rappelling off the ends of their ropes. It is safer to get in the habit of always knotting the end of the rope instead of only doing it when you think that you might need to.
Rope shift in the device can cause asymmetrical strand length, if you run through one side before the other your rope will zip through the anchor at the top and you will fall
It's a safety habit to to get into so that accidents don't occur. You can't always see or communicate with a partner below you that the ends of the rope are both at the bottom. Sometimes rope gets stuck in a tree, on a ledge, etc. so you don't know if it'll reach properly. Rope shifts the mid point as you use it due to various forces being exerted on it (maybe one side has a bit more friction from your hardware, the rock, a tree, etc.). Sometimes the rope reaches the ground with only a few feet extra left, so any amount of shift could offset it enough to become a problem.
I haven't multi-pitched yet, but someone has to rappel first with no one below in a multi-pitch rappel.
It's kind of like why we climb with a rope in the first place; sure, you may be able to free solo it, but accidents happen and accidents in climbing are usually deadly.
lol, just watched a video that did the exact oposite. they lowered using the fixed gear and pointed out to only call for slack, never go off belay xD - I'm a noobie, so who is right?
It depends. In general lowering is safer, but there are times when rappelling is nice; multipitch requires rappel, and if it’s towards the end of the day you can rap while your partner cleans up and gets ready to head out
I agree with Dawson. Lowering off the fixed gear is generally safer and is fine to do, but rappelling is useful to know too. If you are newer to climbing, definitely start with lowering off the fixed gear.
Just don't top rope off the fixed gear; always setup a proper anchor, because while your temp anchor can be replaced, it can sometimes be a long time before fixed gear gets replaced once worn down.
Can you do the same for a lead climb?
yeah its the exact same regardless of climbing disipline
you don't go off belay. just ask for slack. if your top anchors fail, you're going to want your belayer to catch you.
You are correct if your plan is to be lowered off. In the video they are demonstrating how to transition to rappel.
You belayer cant catch you in this case, since the anchor has been cleaned to prepare for a rappel. There is no point in being on belay.
her PAS, while connected to two pieces of fixed gear (the two chain links), still has a single point of failure: the hitch/tether. Are people not concerned about that? What about having two tethers, where each tether goes to a different piece of fixed gear?
Real world example where using a single point of failure anchor would have lead to a death (I know it's not a PAS, but still gets my point across): www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/110088639/rock-fall-results-in-chopped-anchor
Don’t hang the full weight of the rope in your gear loop. Rope is heavy enough to rip off a gear loop.
notice how short the rope end his on her figure 8 knot... Spooky lol
Her know is a yosemite 8, the tail is tucked through the knot
thank you learned something new!
@@michaelsawatzky6052 Make sure to learn that knot well if you intend to use it, doing it wrong can create a knot that will easily invert and pull untied.
This video has some inaccurate info in it. You don't rappel to avoid damaging your rope(lowering doesn't), it's to avoid excess wear on the fixed gear. While rappelling is the preferred ethic in most areas, in some areas, like the Red River Gorge, it's acceptable to lower for cleaning due to the steepness of the routes. Also, you should always weight your PAS before going off belay, don't just tug on it like she does in the video.
the video does say its to avoid excess wear on the fixed gear...
Wow American climbing technique is so over the top
its called safety genius
in soviet russia they just downclimb everything