Two solid methods of cleaning a sport route and the usual top tips and healthy dose of waffle! / jbmountainskills / jbmountainskills www.jbmountains...
One great benefit of the first method is, when cleaning overhanging routes, if you find a particular quickdraw difficult to clean, the long tail can be threaded through the hanger or (preferably) ring bolt and used as a 2:1 pulley system to pull yourself in close to the bolt whilst you remove the draw.
Nice clear video! I always start teaching the second method - because there's nothing you can't do with that, and then introduce the first one later when they've got it sorted. I tend to teach with a fig8 as all (??) climbers can tie one of those already. I guess a bonus of the clove hitch is that you can easily adjust it without untying if you get your rope length wrong?
As my Dad would've said: "Many ways to skin a cat!" I've settled on this way being the best for me. From an assessors point of view watching someone teach this, I don't really care which way around they do it, however I'd expect them to be able to justify why they choose to do it that way, as you are clearly capable of doing.
20m up and looking a bit sketchy! Literally me on any sport route tbh! Jokes aside, really good video, I didn’t know about the clove hitch method, but all makes sense! I’ve been loving all of your videos..Nice one JB
Question: On uneven height anchors (like you have on the right of your board or even fully vertical) do you still pass the two quickdraws through the bolts? is the fact that it is not equalized an issue in that case? I always looked suspiciously at my rope only sitting into one of the draws when I do that so, not knowing if that is a potential issue, I've fallen into the habit of clipping through the ring when I find vertical bolts... which I'm sure is not the best for ring longevity so if my suspicion is unwarranted please, that it away
I am in New Zealand and at my local crags we were always taught to double rope abseil to reduce wear on anchors and on the ropes. That way then the rope isn't weighted as it runs through the chains on a belay.
It definitely has it's advantages. I've often wondered why that's not normal in most of the world and have kind of assumed it's 1. its a little more faff, and 2. potential a bit more spicy for beginners.
@@JBMountainSkills I guess it's what your used to I find it far better especially on wondering routes when communication with the belayer is a bit harder. But at the end of the day it's another way and another arrow in your quiver.
Great video with some excellent safety tips! I'm also in New Zealand where generally there is an expectation that whoever strips the route will then thread the rope through the top ring and do a double rope abseil rather than being lowered - as this is supposed to reduce the wear on the anchors. However that ultimately means untying and coming off belay so you can lower your end of the rope to the ground. To me this adds potential risk which you had eliminated in your video by remaining on belay. I can't think of a way round this although I generally use a twin lanyards to try to increase safety margins. Any suggestions?
Great video, really useful! Quick question: If the lower-off is just two bolts (rounded/friendly ones) without any chains, would you still clip your lanyard into just one of them? Or would you link them, e.g. with a sling and clip your lanyard to that instead?
Am I right you didn't finish the fig 8 with a stopper knot but instead re threaded it back through the knot? Would that be acceptable during the assessment? I've not seen that before.
Good spot, error on my part really as that's my personal climbing knot. It's mega safe and I love it, but don't normally teach it. Fig 8 and stopper is the gold standard really. Honest answer is do what you want on assessment as long as it's safe and you understand the pros and cons, that's the key. I'd absolutely stick with what you do already rather than trying a new knot.
Thanks for the reply. The stopper knot is ingrained now and I think it would cause most partners to question it so I will always do it, however occasionally I've not left enough rope to tie the stopper knot so this would be a good way to finish off safely without having to re do the knot. Still enjoying the films, thanks.
JB Mountain Skills But is it? I’m guessing that you’d have to either do something interesting to make the initial pair of quick draws level and opposed or use a mix of long and short ones but then surely the chances of getting them to be level would be very unlikely 🤔
JB Mountain Skills Hmm so how would you go about using the quickdraws to setup a toprope that’s putting equal pressure on the 2 anchor bolts? Sorry if I’m being dense
Not dense at all! On bolts (assuming they're decent), we don't worry about equalising them the same as we would on trad kit. The top bolt will take all the weight, assuming similar length quickdraws, the lower one just being a back up.
I recently couldn’t complete a route and lowered off my last quick draw. Any tricks on avoiding having to leave that last quick draw on the wall in this scenario? I usually make it to the top so this hasn’t been a problem in the past, but as I continue to climb harder routes, I feel like this might get a little expensive! Any ideas would be appreciated!
Because something must typically be left behind, the best thing to do is to leave a cheaper piece of hardware behind. I usually keep a small quicklink aka "bail biner" attached to my harness at all times, available at most hardware stores - just attach it to the bolt, slip your rope through the gate, screw it shut (finger tight is fine), remove your quickdraw, and lower and clean, without dynamically loading the quicklink. If that sketches you out, use a cheap nonlocking biner. Some lucky climber will then claim it as their own. It's a fun game when you find one hanging on a route that is just within your abilities, especially when it's a new Petzl screwgate. That being said, you don't know the history of bail biner booty, so carefully inspect them for wear/cracks, or just don't use them for climbing purposes. *Some alternate and superior options are: (1.) get a stronger climber to retrieve your gear after you get down (2.) hike up and set up a rappel from the anchors (if accessible) or nearby trees, rap (using a prusik or fireman's belay) and retrieve your gear, and then hike back up and break down the rap anchor. Good luck projectin'.
@@boubrobe7 Outstanding idea! I usually take that same approach to lowering off the top. I have no idea why I didn’t consider that. Thanks a ton for your reply! I’ll absolutely be using this technique in the future!
One great benefit of the first method is, when cleaning overhanging routes, if you find a particular quickdraw difficult to clean, the long tail can be threaded through the hanger or (preferably) ring bolt and used as a 2:1 pulley system to pull yourself in close to the bolt whilst you remove the draw.
Great tip! Blew my mind when someone taught me that years ago! Simple but brilliant :)
Nice tip about clove hitching to the belay loop rather then gear loop. Much safer.
Good stuff as usual Jez, thanks for all the great content!
It still amazes me when I see people teaching clipping to a gear loop, spread the word!
Hahaha I will!
Nice clear video! I always start teaching the second method - because there's nothing you can't do with that, and then introduce the first one later when they've got it sorted. I tend to teach with a fig8 as all (??) climbers can tie one of those already. I guess a bonus of the clove hitch is that you can easily adjust it without untying if you get your rope length wrong?
As my Dad would've said: "Many ways to skin a cat!"
I've settled on this way being the best for me. From an assessors point of view watching someone teach this, I don't really care which way around they do it, however I'd expect them to be able to justify why they choose to do it that way, as you are clearly capable of doing.
20m up and looking a bit sketchy! Literally me on any sport route tbh! Jokes aside, really good video, I didn’t know about the clove hitch method, but all makes sense! I’ve been loving all of your videos..Nice one JB
Glad it was useful!
Learnt some great skills for my sport climvimg trip next year !!. Another great Video. 😀😀
I was just looking for a video on this subject and your channel popped-up again. As usual, another fantastic video. Thank you.
Question: On uneven height anchors (like you have on the right of your board or even fully vertical) do you still pass the two quickdraws through the bolts? is the fact that it is not equalized an issue in that case? I always looked suspiciously at my rope only sitting into one of the draws when I do that so, not knowing if that is a potential issue, I've fallen into the habit of clipping through the ring when I find vertical bolts... which I'm sure is not the best for ring longevity so if my suspicion is unwarranted please, that it away
I do, and I don’t worry about equalisation, for me it’s enough to have the unweighted one a back up.
@@JBMountainSkills thanks a lot for the quick reply. keep up the good work
For sport top rope anchors- do we clip the quickdraws below the rings/ maillons or above the gear which is attached to the hangars?
It varies a bit depending on what exactly is there, but normally underneath whatever is there, to stop any weird twisting.
Love your vids JB!!! Nice one!
Your artistic asides make me groan laugh. And your video editing borderline dad jokes. Love it! Keep it up! Nice mix up 😂
Thanks, I think!
@@JBMountainSkills sorry, its a compliment 😂 Too many really dry instructional vids out there. I'm really enjoying yours and the no nonsense approach.
I am in New Zealand and at my local crags we were always taught to double rope abseil to reduce wear on anchors and on the ropes. That way then the rope isn't weighted as it runs through the chains on a belay.
It definitely has it's advantages. I've often wondered why that's not normal in most of the world and have kind of assumed it's 1. its a little more faff, and 2. potential a bit more spicy for beginners.
@@JBMountainSkills I guess it's what your used to I find it far better especially on wondering routes when communication with the belayer is a bit harder. But at the end of the day it's another way and another arrow in your quiver.
Great video with some excellent safety tips! I'm also in New Zealand where generally there is an expectation that whoever strips the route will then thread the rope through the top ring and do a double rope abseil rather than being lowered - as this is supposed to reduce the wear on the anchors. However that ultimately means untying and coming off belay so you can lower your end of the rope to the ground. To me this adds potential risk which you had eliminated in your video by remaining on belay. I can't think of a way round this although I generally use a twin lanyards to try to increase safety margins. Any suggestions?
I'm not sure they're is really a better way, as it sounds like you are, you just have to be really thorough with your safety and checks.
Great video, really useful! Quick question: If the lower-off is just two bolts (rounded/friendly ones) without any chains, would you still clip your lanyard into just one of them? Or would you link them, e.g. with a sling and clip your lanyard to that instead?
Good question! Realistically I'd clip in to one bolt, and stay on belay through one or both of the bolts via quickdraws.
great video. very informative for a beginner like myself and probably useful if you're looking to brush up.
Glad it was helpful!
If you did not have a lanyard would you simply clove hitch back to your belay loop to secure yourself while threading the ring?
I'd use quickdraws personally, you could use the rope though :)
Am I right you didn't finish the fig 8 with a stopper knot but instead re threaded it back through the knot? Would that be acceptable during the assessment? I've not seen that before.
Good spot, error on my part really as that's my personal climbing knot. It's mega safe and I love it, but don't normally teach it. Fig 8 and stopper is the gold standard really.
Honest answer is do what you want on assessment as long as it's safe and you understand the pros and cons, that's the key. I'd absolutely stick with what you do already rather than trying a new knot.
Thanks for the reply. The stopper knot is ingrained now and I think it would cause most partners to question it so I will always do it, however occasionally I've not left enough rope to tie the stopper knot so this would be a good way to finish off safely without having to re do the knot. Still enjoying the films, thanks.
@@markdemmery5411 what stopper knot and why? Fig 8 is good enough alone?
@@viktornilsson7867 Hi Viktor, in the UK the fig. 8 is always backed up with a stopper knot. It's normal practice here.
@@markdemmery5411 Ok thanks :)
Great videos, keep making them!
Cheers! More to come!
I guess in some places even lowering off on the ring is not considered ok? Then you would have to rappel instead of using this method, right?
That's right!
Really good video. I would love to have seen how you’d have done this on the set of bolts on the right which are staggered.
Good point, I should've used that for example two. Thankfully it's exactly the same as with the other two methods :)
JB Mountain Skills But is it? I’m guessing that you’d have to either do something interesting to make the initial pair of quick draws level and opposed or use a mix of long and short ones but then surely the chances of getting them to be level would be very unlikely 🤔
Yep, they don't need to be level, offset is just fine :)
JB Mountain Skills Hmm so how would you go about using the quickdraws to setup a toprope that’s putting equal pressure on the 2 anchor bolts? Sorry if I’m being dense
Not dense at all! On bolts (assuming they're decent), we don't worry about equalising them the same as we would on trad kit. The top bolt will take all the weight, assuming similar length quickdraws, the lower one just being a back up.
God I love your videos mate
Nice one!
I recently couldn’t complete a route and lowered off my last quick draw. Any tricks on avoiding having to leave that last quick draw on the wall in this scenario? I usually make it to the top so this hasn’t been a problem in the past, but as I continue to climb harder routes, I feel like this might get a little expensive! Any ideas would be appreciated!
Because something must typically be left behind, the best thing to do is to leave a cheaper piece of hardware behind. I usually keep a small quicklink aka "bail biner" attached to my harness at all times, available at most hardware stores - just attach it to the bolt, slip your rope through the gate, screw it shut (finger tight is fine), remove your quickdraw, and lower and clean, without dynamically loading the quicklink. If that sketches you out, use a cheap nonlocking biner. Some lucky climber will then claim it as their own. It's a fun game when you find one hanging on a route that is just within your abilities, especially when it's a new Petzl screwgate. That being said, you don't know the history of bail biner booty, so carefully inspect them for wear/cracks, or just don't use them for climbing purposes. *Some alternate and superior options are: (1.) get a stronger climber to retrieve your gear after you get down (2.) hike up and set up a rappel from the anchors (if accessible) or nearby trees, rap (using a prusik or fireman's belay) and retrieve your gear, and then hike back up and break down the rap anchor. Good luck projectin'.
@@boubrobe7 Outstanding idea! I usually take that same approach to lowering off the top. I have no idea why I didn’t consider that. Thanks a ton for your reply! I’ll absolutely be using this technique in the future!
This is excellent
Thanks!