IBM's 386 Tower of Power: The PS/2 Model 80
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Compaq beat IBM to the 386 PC punch, but the Big Blue Empire struck back with the Personal System/2 Model 80 386. With a 32-bit Micro Channel bus and room for six drives IBM was making a big case for the future of computing. But what’s inside this monstrous machine and what upgrades are available? Join me as I pull this PC apart to see what you got when you bought a $6850 workstation in 1990.
Blog Post: www.userlandia.com/home/ibm-p...
= Chapters =
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - Adopting a Micro Channel PC
04:38 - The Case
07:35 - Drive Bays and Power Supply
09:30 - Disassembling the Model 80
13:35 - Micro Channel Slots and Cards
15:53 - Auxiliary Video Extension
18:38 - Token Ring Network Card
19:05 - IBM PS/2 SCSI Adapter
19:51 - IBM Enhanced 80386 Memory Adapter w/ ROM
23:12 - Programmable Option Select
25:31 - Auto Configuration In Action
27:51 - Period Appropriate Productivity
29:15 - XGA-2 Graphics Adapter
34:21 - Conclusion & Outro
= Links =
* Ardent Tool of Capitalism - www.ardent-tool.com
* Model 8580-081 Resources - www.ardent-tool.com/8580/Plan...
* Tube Time's MCA Tutorial: github.com/schlae/mca-tutorial
* The Micro Channel Architecture Handbook by Chet Heath and Winn Rosch: archive.org/details/microchan...
* IBM Museum - / @ibm_museum
* BOPT 16 MB Barrier Walkthrough: groups.google.com/g/comp.sys....
= Contact =
Follow on Mastodon: bitbang.social/@kefkafloyd
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Visit The Website: www.userlandia.com
Join The Userlandia Discord: / discord
Theme Song by Space Vixen: spacevixenmusic.bandcamp.com - Наука та технологія
Thanks for the shout-out - I'll try to answer a number of the questions, and also provide more information.
Thanks! Your videos on the planars were already very helpful, but if the mystery of the floppy controller can be solved I'd be eternally grateful.
@@userlandia: It's a SYSGEN 'Bridge' board - The '60' portion in the part number means for the Model 60 (and by convention, also the Model 80). The manual is on Minus Zero Degrees.
Thanks, this solves a big mystery. Finding one of those Sysgen drives probably won't happen. My googling couldn't find anything because the silkscreen only says SYSGE 1060 and that's enough to not hit a match. But SYSGEN... that got more results.
@@userlandia: I've imaged the files of the diskette as well - The drives are just conventional 5-1/4" assemblies, so it isn't that hard to get everything working.
I was reading that the IBM external drives won't work with it because the 37 pin external cable pinouts don't match and you have to wire up a custom cable. True?
That's my son Aaron you bought this from. He's very conscientious about his work...And it shows!
Does you son do anything on UA-cam?
None that I'm aware of.@@PsRohrbaugh
It really does show in the car he has, it looks amazing! He sounds like a pretty cool guy.
His work is fantastic, and his customers are in good hands. I like to think that I didn't just buy a computer; I also made a friend!
I'm sure he would appreciate that. @@userlandia
I used these early in my career, I once took one and plugged 4 SCSI cards into it, turned it on, it recognized all the cards and we hooked CDROM towers to it and it worked flawlessly
For such a small channel the production is LGR levels of good. Amazing Job on these videos. Just found your channel and am loving it.
Thanks!
Actually, there's a lot in common with LGR here - I'd even call it a "clone" channel :P Except in this case it did not cover a clone system :D
You have skill at rivals LGR and I came cross your channel by accident
Wow. The first computer I used at work. Had that tiny 12” screen. I had to carry it in and airline hand luggage in trips to demo our LU6.2 based graphical client software. I had the 16mhz model if I recall. Fancy grapihcs are and the SNA microchannel card. This machine is the Cindy Crawford of late 80’s PCs. Just classically beautiful.
The transition from the simple XTs built with off the shelf parts driving their own standard to the insane level of proprietary in the PS/2 is mind-boggling. So many trademark IBM metal can ASICs and parts that don't even have datasheets, and that's simply from a CSE perspective.
This was excellent, amazing production value, clear script writing and showing all the good and bad things. I hope you’ll get thousands and thousands of subscribers! Please keep at it!
Thanks! There's more coming down the pike, that's for sure.
7:23 is all I needed to here, this man has earned a sub
Thanks. FYI - the key you are missing was also the 'go to' tool for undoing the screws on the side panel as well as the screws holding the adapter cards in. I did work on a lot of these PS/2's, and SOP was to always have a copy of the reference diskette in aplastic envelope inside the case where the user could not recycle it, and tie the case key to the handle with a reusable zip-tie.
I grew up in Townsend, MA where you found this beast! PC Lan rules!
I had one years ago. Loaded it up using 1 good and one dead one. 2 floppy drives, 2 esdi drives, tons of ram. Os/2. Matching keyboard, mouse, monitor. Gave it away over 25 years ago. One of them was being used at a school as a Novell netware 3.11 server.
Netware... now there's an idea.
Years ago I remember we had a few of these running our network on Token Ring. They did all the file sharing, print sharing etc. They ran IBM OS/2 with Presentation Manager. They were so reliable, we rarely touched them. So much so that the time (we had that shown) had burned into the phosphors of the screen. These were awesome machines.
That was my first home computer back in 1990. It was great computer.
'Why this computer is so capacious: this case corrals clusters of cards, cages and cables.' there is that Userlandia alliterative writing we've all come to love. The Ye Olde Computer Show with exceptional mouth feel.
Thank you for thirty five minutes of pure ecstasy!
I've been waiting for this one!! What a beast of a system. Excellent review!
Indeed, I knew you would enjoy this one. ;)
Used one of these at work as a server for 6 people in 1990. Worked great. Built like a tank.
Found this via Action Retro. Very well done and informative! I’ll be checking more out.
What a brilliant video. I've no desire at all to have this kind of PS/2 so it's great to really fully explore it in your video
Thanks, Dave!
My first tech job was taking pallets of these bad boys, slapping in a 16mb Token Ring micro-channel card and OS/2. Fun times.
OMG, my dad had this computer, just the 16mhz variant. (He worked for IBM.) We even had one of those super-rare Microchannel Sound Blasters. I played many many hours of Wing Commander and Star Control on that beast. I also got my introduction to .MOD files on it. And it's cool seeing it dissected here, since at the time I was too young to fiddle with the hardware.
Oh, and it dual-booted OS/2 as well. Because of course it did, haha.
Enjoyed the video. Here's another vote for an OS/2 video!
It'll be on my next big list of things to do!
Such a well crafted video, love the LGR esque feeling :3
I had one of those monsters. The 286 model. Carrying that beast home was fun but I did it. Now I wish I kept it.
I would pay $300 for that machine without blinking an eye, that was a bargain, these REALLY are getting rare
Really great video! Really thorough and a lot of work put in
Gosh I love the big PCB boards and tower cases and when people just truly appreciate hardware.
What a wonderful video! Thank you very much. Saved my afternoon!
A close friend still has one of these, including equipped with a 387, some crazy GPU and multiple WORM machines and discs where we used to archive and backup all the DOS games we could get our hands on. Oh the memories. 🥰
Wow! That takes me back to configuration floppy disk days.
Yep, I had a couple of those "back in the day," and installed one for a customer. It had a lot more complexity than many others at that time, but there were some advantages such as being able to "map around' defective RAM sections.
wow! this is a cool flashback into my past.
I had at work "at that time" a model-70 with the 8514/A card - and the 8514 monitor!
with a wd-ethernet card - using Novel-Netware ... wow ! what a long time ago that was :-)
Another great one! Enjoyed it!
so glad I found this channel! I was running out of vintage computing content fast heh
Great video! You should definitely installed OS/2 Warp on that thing. It would only be appropriate. And it runs really well on my PS/2 Model 9577 486DX/2 66MHz system.
Perhaps a subject for a future video... ;)
(Seriously though, I am intending on doing it, but I need to set up some BlueSCSI disk stuff first and it just would not have fit in the schedule/flow of this video)
Or NetWare 386
Not this one BUT the 386 was the best moment of my youth vs fun ratio on a computer. Man I had fun with my 386. Yes my pentium or 486 was better a couple years later but - like my old Oculus Quest 1 Vr headset vs psvr2 or quest 3 today... Good video
13:31 I wasn’t aware that these machines won’t boot without a working battery. I had a non-booting one ages ago that was in pristine condition which didn’t boot. Sold it off cheap to a collector. Oh well.
Great video! Love these beasts, but dang are they heavy!
The problem is: the dead battery causes a configuration loss - and you end up with various persistant errors like 162 / 163 (date / time error) and suchlike. And *then* pressing F1 as on XT/AT brings you nowhere, since the machine doesn't know that it got a fixed disk. So you need a proper CR-P2 battery (6V - can still be found at supermarkets in the "foto" corner - powered many small pocket cameras) and a reference disk for the models of the first generation MCA PS/2.
Your alliteration is stellar 😂
Great video. Thank you
You're welcome!
What a machine. I can't believe MCA was a failure.
I had a 286 with a sound card, a VGA card and 2 harddisks. I could buy a new mainboard, an AMD or Intel 386DX and RAM and keep using all my cards and disks in the same PC AT case. Or a Microchannel PC for five times the price and also buy all new cards and scsi disks.
Guess which one people preferred.
I'll take jumpers or wobbly VLB cards any time over the mess that MCA was. Even IBM admitted that.
Wonderful!
That was a great watch. Thanks!
12:54 I think you might be spot on when it comes to the floppy expansion PCB board. Its silkscreen says “tape”, and there’s a 37pin floppy port on the back, leading to that same PCB.
I’ve got an early Ditto drive, which connected through the MFM floppy interface. As the IBM PS/2 line was known for becoming the new standard, the floppy port was definitely incompatible by default. That’s where such PCB would come in handy. :)
Gotta love the Model 80! I really need to get mine out and service the floppy; thank you for the reminder 😅 Really nice video and beautiful production!
Servicing the PS/2 floppy would be a great subject for a video. From back then, I recall that they were very unreliable and troublesome. AND very expensive to replace through IBM. Like $300-400. Really.
That's my computer class server from high school. It had a whole 1 GB drive. Our lab PS/2 (286) computers booted DOS directly over the network via Novell Netware.
how do you know this is the exact same one? 🤨
Same model @@Chevroletcelebrity 🙄
@@recoveryguru do you have proof of this? 🤨
You’re the kind of person who would climb over a glass wall to see what’s behind it@@Chevroletcelebrity
@@recoveryguru so is that a no?
I had one these bad dogs with an M/Motion and M/Capture card. Truly groundbreaking at the time! Might have been a bit later and a 486. So perhaps not the same. But still brings back memories.
You might have had a model 95, which is wider and deeper, but shorter.
I always liked those IBM power switches. Back then we called them flip-flops. Switching on: „FLIP“ Switching off: „FLOP“
🎶 Makin' flippy floppy, tryin' to do my best 🎶
All PCs should have satisfying, chonky switches.
I use to own one in the mid to late 90s, bought it from a school for $5, had to carry it a few miles home.
This thing handled 10000+ student enrollments per day back in 1991, connected to an IP network with 700+ Mac clients and the first HP Laser printers.
very very good video. both in quality of information and the way you present it. I owned one of these. Wish I had lugged it along through life. but I did not.
So many memories, the model 80 was the second PC I ever owned after the Model 50. This was the first one with enough horsepower to run current stuff. Mine was decked out. 24 mb RAM dual 74mb HDDs, dual 1.44 floppies. It was big time when I got it!
That is decked out! My first 486 had 8mb ram and 80mb hdd. You were living large!
@@PsRohrbaugh my computer class teacher hooked me up with a bunch of upgrades from the school stash lol
Just like mine did with the Model 30 286 from that video. :)
Very nice! I'm sure that IBM Museum will have answers to your questions... I'll send him a link to the video :)
Having a 386 in 1987 would have been awesome
In installing Windows 95 on an AT after I installed 4 MB and an 80 MB hard drive, I found that it was absolutely possible to install an ISA 1 MB Trident video card and an IDE card and a Floppy/serial card, Sound blaster and a 33.6 modem and even a token ring / 10-base-T network card and a memory expansion card and a bios expansion card for the 386 CPU when it came out.
I realized that if MS had written Windows 95 in 1984, they absolutely could have run it on 286 machines and had 1 MB Trident video with 16 million colors
I ran a grayscale CGA display on my 286.
It ran slow but still very usable
I really wish they had written at least 3.1 in 84.
We could have been a decade further ahead.
Nice video. Make more like this. It's good as podcast as well.
This actually started as a podcast (which itself was a sequel to a prior podcast), and if you think about it the video is like an illustrated podcast!
Oh wow, I remember seeing this come up on Craigslist!
@15:54 - Unlike any other PS/2 model, the 'Type 3' Model 80 planar has two AVE (Auxiliary Video Extension) slots; Likely from the IBM Japan origins, where a different adapter may have been intended. The 8580 'Type 3' also is the only PS/2 submodel that has a socketed keyboard controller - thought to perhaps be for the possibility of the lower-end 3174 controllers where that planar was used to run the different keypad.
I worked for IBM for 37 years. IBM started me with a PC/XT then a PC/AT then a PS2 70 then a PS2 80 then we switched to laptops. The model 80 initially ran Windows and later OS/2. I bought a model 80 used from IBM that was surplussed to replace my PS2 30 286 at home. Memories.
I have an IBM 8228 token ring hub if you want to get token ring working. It uses Rj45 connectors. It’s yours if you want it.
Thanks for the offer! I don't have any other machines with Token Ring cards. IBM Museum might want it though.
I've got one under my desk, with a Gotek, a ZuluSCSI RP2040, 3D printed and painted 3.5 bezel/tray adapters rocking a Reply TurboProcessor uprade board with a Pentium Overdrive 83mhz, 128kb L2 cache, a BT-646S Fast SCSI card, a 100Mbit network adapter, a ChipChat sound card, and a 5 disk CD Changer/Driver mounted vertically with the 5.25 adapter bezel.
One of my favorite PS/2 rigs.
I think you win the award for most upgraded model 80. Talk about a hot rod!
@@userlandia I'm working on driving to Canada to pick up a ATI Graphics Ultima Pro. If that manages to go down, I'll post it in /r/VintageComputing. Also, the POD 83 Mhz is underwelming on the Reply board. I have a PS/2 Valuepoint where it preforms about 30% better (SpeedSys score of 41 vs 60-something).... In addition, benchmarks on the internet are more inline with the Valuepoint than the Reply board. I've also tried a 486 Overdrive and a Kingston Turbochip with similar results. A 20 to 30% reduction on the Reply board. Also found someone else with a Reply board who had similar results.
I really liked the video! I didn't know all that much about MCA before seeing this, but now I find myself very curious about it 👀
Also, I have to say that the slow focus-in transition kinda hurt my head, to the point I had to close my eyes until it was over each time it happened near the end of the video. For people that suffer from headaches, having too many of them in a short span of time might cause discomfort.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll take that into account.
I worked with these running novell 2.15 on coax ethernet.
Pretty sure your external floppy connector was intended for external tape drive. Tons of 20 to 80 megabyte drives were used then.
Excellent informative and well presented video! Thanks Would love an MCA machine, think the other half would murder me :-)
Just keep tabs on your local listing, and when one comes up, get it for cheap and tell them that it followed you home!
I just want to comment before the video begins, that this is truly one of my holiest of grails. I worked at an IBM dealership in the late 80's-early 90's and handled these quite a bit. I'd love to have one again to set up with various OS/2 versions. My ultimate setup would have SCSI (of course) with one of those monster drives that let out a loud pinging sound as it initialized.
If your wallet's got enough cash in it there's one or two on eBay now... Just watch out for the shipping fees. BlueSCSI is compatible with these so you could easily have multiple virtual images with all your iterations of OS/2 ready to go!
@@userlandia Yes, it would be nice lol. I can tell you that shipping to Bermuda would be at least as much as the item itself, if not more. For now I'm emulating one using 86Box (on an iMac ironically).
As for the whole thing with retro computing YT channels insisting on playing games on every system they get is silly to me. I'd rather set one (or more) up as a typical business system, which means either a power desktop or server (which I think they were envisioning originally; we used them almost exclusively for servers).
Exel, one of the biggest reinsurance companies out there had it's headquarters here, and I remember installing it's first server ever; previously the whole company had been run from a spreadsheet pretty much all in the CEO's head, as he was wont to say. Fun little sidenote: We got complaints that the server was crashing every night; we later found out that the cleaning lady was unplugging it to use the vacuum lol.
Ah yes, I've run into that "cleaning person unplugs a server" thing before.
I'm not one to tell someone how to enjoy the stuff they buy or make content with-note that I do ironically demonstrate a few things with games in this very video. ;) But this machine is very much a workhorse, and needed to be demonstrated as such. I had plans to run some other productivity apps, but I had to shelve them for a variety of reasons. The comments about these machines being installed as 24/7 Netware servers are spot on, really, because that's what all those drive bays were for.
@@userlandia Netware was what we installed lol.
An internal tape drive and an external optical drive would be nice to add. A blue, diagonal stripe on the side of the access panel. All my towers, I lay on their side on top of their desk, with the service side panel up.
Holy cats this channel is great! As others have said, you've got some intense LGR vibes. Have a sub, and rock on!
Oh boy, what a trip down memory lane... In my first "proper" full-time job in the early 2000s, looking after a secondary school network, I got my hands on a whole bunch of PS/2s including an 8580. If my memory serves me correctly, it was a 386DX/25 with 387. I think it ended up with 12MB RAM (4MB on the cards and 8MB on an MCA board) after I'd swapped some SIMMs around a bit. It had a whopping 340MB ESDI full-height 5¼" hard drive (which sounded amazing) and an 8514/A. I have a feeling it had a security label on it that indicated that it had belonged to an engineering company before being passed on to the school (the rest were donated by the local university during my time as IT guy). It had been gathering dust under someone's desk for some time before I spotted it (and promptly went into whatever the old computer equivalent of "oooh, shiny!" mode is) while sorting out a problem with their "modern" PC.
Sadly, I had to leave all the PS/2s, along with several large boxes of Model M keyboards, behind when we moved out of the old building into a new-build because I simply didn't have anywhere to transport or store them. The back of my car was stuffed with servers and the like (thank goodness the Volvo 440 had a boot/trunk like a black hole) where the removals guys had "finished" and left before I'd been able to pack up the IT office (they turned up several days early, while people were still using the system) so I couldn't take even one of each type with me.
I think we all have pieces of tech that get away from us. Alas, even the mighty Volvo station wagon has its limits.
My model 80 was a small basket case when I got it. And it can be a real nightmare to get them running right if they are misconfigured. Mine (A21) has the 8514 graphics upgrades, cached scsi, and the works. I had to do some recapping and psu repair. Original harddrive still functions and was left in the machine unplugged but was upgraded to a 540 at some point.
7:22 Excellent !
"It's like poetry; it rhymes."
Great content, thank you. That was my first “server” at work and it shipped with OS/2. Maintenance was pretty expensive, but I really liked it. One suggestion, maybe lower a bit the background music, especially the parts with saxophone are a bit distracting 😮
Always hard to dial in the levels... Something that looks -28 dBa might sound a little louder on some systems. Duly noted!
You forgot about the CPU upgrades. We had the PS/2 80 systems at my company in the late 90s, and we bought Kingston Lightning 486 upgrades for them. Worked very well, although they were kinda expensive...
Oh, I haven't forgotten about CPU upgrades... There's the Reply upgrade planars too.
Really good informational video! One month ago I picked up a model 80 along with some expansion cards and a rainbow 100 for free. Both are working so I must've been extremely lucky. Usually i like to collect computers from the pentium 1-4 era so I went into this blind. Gave it a good cleaning and noticed all the foam inside disintegrated just by touch haha. Bought a new battery for it since they were easy to find but unfortunately that's the farthest I've gotten with the computer as the floppy drive doesn't work so I'm stuck in the basic screen for now.
Most of the time the floppy drives need recaps. Check if yours is an Alps or Mitsubishi mechanism; the Alps definitely need them. You can use a standard floppy drive with an adapter. Make sure to check if yours uses the 44 pin connector or the edge connector, there are two different kinds of adapters available.
23:05 *That* was a nice surprise. We'd discussed that quite a bit in the newsgroups and back then I wrote hundreds and thousands of postings. Hearing my name in a UA-cam video is somewhat new to me ... 🙂 After the 2010s the newsgroup eroded quite a bit. Many oldtimers are no longer with us, some went through troubled periods in their life and turned to other themes (like me), but I still have PS/2 stuff left in the basement and on shelves in my storage and respond to requests sent via mail on that topic. Recently I revived an IBM 5155 Portable PC which I have for 30+ years. Maybe the next on the list is my 9595-S30 which was my daily workhorse *for* *years* until its retirement.
Hey, I cite my sources. ;) Seriously, though, the posts from that era are important gap fillers. There's only so much I can get from books and my prior experiences. I tended to MCA machines at the tail end of their relevance in the late 90s and even first-hand memories can get fuzzy with time. So all of us refurbishing and reviving these old things owe you a great debt.
Hopefully you bring that Model 95 back to life-now's as good a time as any, given modern cable adapters/drive emulators/cards.
I got one for free about 20 years ago, it didn't work so i reused the case for my own build. Lots of space inside.
The Later PS/2 series was an important and basically unrealized step up in x86 PC history, many features introduced by the PS2s are in use today on modern PCs; Basic Plug N Play (a feature of MCA), PS/2 ports, "High Resolution" Advanced desktop graphics. Multiple displays, Software configurable interrupts, SIMM memory, Among others.
The subject of the PS/2's influence and false start on PCs in general is covered in the PS/2 Model 30 286 Computers of Significant History video. Check it out!
Dang! Like I said in another one of your videos, well, first of all I am binge watching, but secondly, I have the 286 version of this guy and have had it for months, and I haven't even put power to it yet! I've got to get around to it soon. I really want the 386 version... didn't they make a 486 in this case as well? If so, I want that one, too. You may cover this in the video, but I haven't gotten all the way through it yet ;)
PS - This just in: a fraternity brother of mine just contacted me and found some old computers for me and asked if I wanted them. The pictures he sent were of a TRS-80 Model II, DMP-400 printer, disk expansion unit, and a Compaq luggable. They were on the way to the landfill, and I got them! I can't wait to collect them next week!
Good thing you got the 80387, it improved my model 80's stability quite a bit, but I have the 1st rev 4 rom 386DX-16 board, so maybe it's something weird with that. The XGA-2 card is 32bit, which makes the video far faster. Bench the video speed with the onboard VGA & the XGA-2, and you'll noticed that XGA-2 is 4x faster... Meaning the built in VGA is actually an 8bit peripheral! Links386 works fine with the included VESA TSR & the flag to not do VGA palettes, as you hinted on. Also Sim City 1.0 for Windows 3.0 runs fine as well. I loaded Excel 2 & Word 1 for Windows onto mine! and of course OS/2.
Very nostalgic! I had the misfortune to work on an i486-based desktop IBM PS/2 in the late 1990s. I did not have any experience with MCA-based PCs, but I learned to hate this machine with a passion when upgrading the SCSI-drive; first off, I thought nothing of it: this was SCSI which I knew was a breeze as the controller would enumerate and map any devices detected on the SCSI-bus by itself. Not so in an IBM with MCA! Error on boot and request for the reference disk. Having located it and entering the configuration software, I expected the system to update its configuration to accommodate the new drive, ask me to confirm, then save an reboot. Nope. I had to manually re-register EVERY single accessory currently present on the MCA-bus! Plug and play nothing! Several times I didn't get all parameters correct and next boot: Error, rinse and repeat every single thing in the configuration software.
If I'd ever see one of these machines again, I'd smash it and enjoy the experience immensely!
Your experience wasn't uncommon. When autoconfig works, it's great, and when it doesn't...
My first was a 386Sx the poor-man's Dx 8 MB ram though. And a Soundblaster audio card.
Back in the early /mid 90s these were so cheap at the First Saturday Sale in Dallas but I never got one because I thought they were so ugly at the time ... but now compared to modern machines I realize they are awesome and wish I had a few.
I had a 286 version of this, it was my first pc
25:42 hey now! I sold you that card at the last swapmeet! or rather, my friend next to me of whom I was spot sharing did, I was off perusing the wares at the time if memory serves. I had an ADF disk with drivers in the trunk for whomever was gonna buy it, but I wasn't there for the sale in the end. Glad that you found it, regardless. If memory serves there should be a crynwr packet driver for it, but I didn't look much further than that. I used that card to back up my P70 before it decided to die in front of me not more than 10 minutes after the backup was complete. So beware, that card has somewhat of a SpoOoOooOoky past attached to it...
otherwise, I picked that card up at VCF East 2018, and at that time I had to fix broken joints, that's why the one square PLCC chip top-middle is slightly crooked and there's some other random reflows here and there. didn't get a proper use until last year, and that was for the backup operation. was the first and last time I used the card. From here on, if I get that P70 ever working again, it's gonna be with a Xircom Pocket Ethernet adapter or my rather rare Kodiak parallel ethernet adapter. Either-or will do the job in that machine where it'd otherwise take up a slot I could use for an 8MB RAM expansion. but alas, that machine shows no signs of life at POST. so I'm not sure just what the hell is going on.
Wow! Thanks for the history of that card. Small world. :) Hopefully I'll see you at VCF East!
I know that if I ever sell any MCA cards my plan is to put the floppy in the anti-static bag with the card. Otherwise the scenario you listed (they get separated due to a mixup) is all too likely.
@14:14 - A 'Tribble' SCSI adapter should actually be in [the upper-most] Slot 8 for the 'Type 2' Model 80s that had SCSI: The convention on microchannel PS/2s is that the hard drive controller (MFM, ESDI, SCSI, or DBA-ESDI as appropriate for the system and sub-model) is in the highest-numbered slot, at the highest SCSI ID address (for 'narrow' SCSI, although the 'Fast/Wide' controllers kept the same convention), with the primary SCSI drive at SCSI ID 6. Of course you will notice that Slot 8 of the 'Type 2' is only a 16-bit slot. Despite the appearance of the 32-bit section of the 'Tribble' adapter, it is actually a 16-bit controller. With a 'Spock', you are forgiven to put it in a 32-bit slot (since it is fully a 32-bit controller); The 'Spock' wasn't used to add SCSI to a Model 80 until the 'Type 3' (25MHz) planars, which had a 32-bit Slot 8.
The only good thing about microchannel was how simple they were to diagnose most startup issues. And that seems to be a completely forgotten thing at least over the last few years in YT videos by others, just plug in a dot matrix printer with paper ready to print and boot the computer to have the issue print out. I vaguely recall only 2 issues when it wouldn't print and both meant replacing the mainboard, the 3rd no print was a dead battery.
I know these systems (and some others) can send POST codes via the parallel port to an LED code display. But actually sending POST codes to a printer? I've never actually tried it. Would like to see it in action.
I have one of these with a 33Mhz 486 and 16MB of ram and one of the elusive soundcards. I took it to VCFW to show off a friend's IRISvision kit. Absolutely Crazy hardware for the time. We were demoing 3D output on a 486...
Reply upgrade planar? Those aren't common, so that's definitely a showpiece!
Micro Channel did not "fail". IBM was a serious company, they didn't make toys. The MCA bus is also found in the AS/400 and RS/6000 minicomputers, and even low-end System 370 machines. It brought ground-up bus mastering to the world, which was the most important innovation of the late 1980s.
If you'll permit me a counterpoint...
Micro Channel absolutely failed from a strategic standpoint. The goal was to reclaim the "IBM PC" from the compatibles and put IBM back in the driver's seat of the architecture. From that point of view it was a disaster because it accelerated the market's decoupling of the DOS/Wintel platform from IBM. That doesn't mean it didn't work or wasn't useful, but it still failed in the marketplace. Yes, it was implemented in other IBM products, but that's beside the point. There's plenty of examples of working products which tried and failed to become standards but managed to survive in niche environments. Sony's littered with them.
As far as bus mastering goes, Zorro II launched at the same time as Micro Channel (in March of 1987) and it supported bus mastering. NuBus also supported bus mastering (though it depended on the machine having a bus master controller; the initial Mac IIs did not have one on the logic board but some NuBus cards like the 824GC did have one, and there were add-in boards that added bus mastering hardware).
I had one of them beside my desk in the late 80's. Did double duty as the department server and my workstation. In a later incarnation a few years later the department had a desktop PS/2. After the short warranty expired the floppy diskette drive went bad. IBM wanted $400 for a replacement. That was when drives for clone PC's were going for about $40. Company paid the $400. Somebody else's money and it was their policy to buy only IBM.
No one has ever been fired for buying IBM.
I remember being an incredibly envious teenager in the late 80’s when visiting a cousin and seeing their new IBM PS/2 Model 60 sitting where their previous PCjr used to sit. His dad worked for IBM as a mainframe printer repair tech, and I guess IBM had a history of discounting PCs for employees to purchase. In retrospect, it also appeared to be a dumping ground for failed models that they couldn’t move elsewhere (yup, they eventually bought a PS/1 too). Our previous ritual of playing Kings Quest and Pinball on the PCjr was now replaced with newer versions and awe inspiring graphics. I was obsessed, and drove my uncle crazy with my endless teenage geek-nerdiness, that he ordered me a complete set of technical service/repair manuals for the entire PS/2 product line. Armed with this new library of IBM obsessiveness, I quickly became the go-to guy in my high school for any problems in their new PS/2 based computer labs.. While I never did achieve my teenage dream/goal of working for IBM, I heavily credit my uncle and the IBM PS/2 for steering me towards a lifelong interest and career in computers.
You and I have very similar uncles. That story's coming in the next Computers of Significant History.
I used to sell them in a computershop in the Netherlands, they where mostly bought by companies.
I actually have a model 80 sitting next to me waiting for me to livestream it's repair, but I have to agree with your overall assessment of the system. I also resurrect and drive old vehicles, farm equipment, etc. To me, the model 80 is more like my '74 F350 than it is my hotrodded caprice or the '65 olds convertible. It's not so much for playing around as it is a sturdy old work rig that will do what you need, albeit less efficiently than new stuff, but can still get real work done - probably much longer than the modern equivalent. Mine may end up running my greenhouse after I build an MCA GPIO board or two, or it may run Novell and gain a tape, cd changer and MO drive and become a data hub for my old rigs. Already have a pair of Ethernet cards and AUIs for that, not to mention the drives and stuff...
Very curious about those MCA GPIO boards if you manage to make them!
in the office I worked at in the 90s that had these.. they were always just on their side with the big 15 inch CRTs sitting on top. I worked on moving these to the trash and replacing with new 486s b and converting the ones that were staying for a few months for whatever legacy reason from token ring to ethernet.
I used to have a IBM ps2 8550 with the original monochrome monitor sold It for £200 years ago
Aww man, makes me sad to have your channel only find its way into my recommendations _now!_ I'm in central VT, and back in December I had to leave 13 of these 386 and 286 PS/2 towers and a few other microchannel machines behind in my old apartment when I moved because I lacked the resources to move them. I would've let you take as much of it as you wanted for whatever you'd have been willing to pay. 😩
I _did_ manage to save two big boxes of MCA adapters, some RAM cards, a few keyboards, even two old PS/2 monitors... So, if you need any accessories, let me know and I'll catalog it all. I may "know what I've got" but I'll let it go for "what I can get" because I don't want to see any more of it end up in a dumpster. 😢
Hey, if you've got a sound card lurking in that pile of MCA cards I'd definitely be interested! Let me know what's in your collection and maybe we can work something out. And it's a shame about those old machines. Had I known I could have helped you find people to re-home them. If you can make it down to VCF East you could probably unload it all and make sure it gets to a good home.
About 25 years ago I had a friend that ran a website off one of these.
Pretty sure it was maxed out and had some kind of CPU upgrade.
But this was the old web which was mostly text and tiny pictures.
I just love the aesthetics of the ps/2 series for some weird reason.
Also, 200 usd is ridiculously little for the effort he must've put in restoring the thing...
To quote myself-say what you will about IBM, but they have a flair for industrial design.
And yes, given the effort he put into it the price was fair. I've done plenty of restorations and I know all the time and labor it takes.
Ahh, the Model 80, the best table legs one could find on the side of the road. (Yes, that is where my long gone Model 80s were found) At least its the Type 2 planer and came with SCSI vs. those big loud ESDI drives. MCA was really annoying to configure because you HAD to run it off of the floppy drive... slowly.....without any caching. It didn't help that the floppy drives were non-standard and aged poorly. A broken floppy drive = useless system.
Years later when I finally got an EISA system to see what all the fuss was about, you could install the configuration utility on the hard drive. Way faster and it told you what the card IDs were if you were missing a configuration file! Oh yeah, and sound cards.
You've got to have a LOT of patience running SimCity 2000 in Windows on a 386 20 Mhz machine tho.
It's advice aimed more for 486/Pentium users with XGA cards, since I mentioned it right by the "486 users will face more challenges" bit. Installing SC2K for Win3.1 to see just how much it crawls is actually on my todolist but it didn't make the cut in time.
@@userlandia Haha I saw that and immediately dropped the idea of installing SC2K on my own NCR 386 lol
It'll run just fine in DOS (as it does in this video once I put on the palette fix)! It'll just be a little pokey once your city size gets really large.
@@userlandia I'm noticing the same thing with Civilization for Windows ;)
Sim city for windows 1.0 runs not so bad, even on a model 60
Nice video. I have question, what is most common screws vintage pc:s.
Really depends on the vendor. Your best bet is to take the specific screw to a hardware store.
I was shocked when I saw the view count, very well made. Though you may want to remove your approximate location lol
Thanks for the heads up, I edited out a thing that slipped through.
I had one of these but never knew what it was other than it was an IBM. I wondered forever what this machine was, even recently. It was my first PC, and it ran Descent poorly.
Mine had the ram card, that graphics card, and the scsi as well and thats it. Wish i remembered why it failed. I bet it was something easy to fix but i was so inexperienced then.
Also, dude... your videos are TOP NOTCH!!!!! Drinking a beer on vacation on the balcony listening to the Gulf of Mexico lap the shoreline and watching this. THIS is a vacation LOL.
One oddity of the PS/2 line that I do not see here is the behavior of (at least some of) the microchannel memory cards that do not have ROM. If there is no card with ROM present, they install a boot program on the first sector of the hard drive. This gives the weird experience of the memory check stopping at the top of the planar memory, then the drives initializing, and then the memory check resuming after the floppy and hard drives initialize. It also means that the extra memory may not be available if booting from a floppy directly.
I am using an MCIDE in my model 80, and it is particularly noticeable... the memory check sees the first 2 MB of memory on the planar memory card, then the XTIDE BIOS loads and checks drives, then the memory count resumes as if nothing else happened.
It also means that every time I re-partition my CF card (the original full-height brick of a hard drive is long dead), I risk losing access to my extra RAM until I re-load my reference disk.
I had some bits about the intricacies of the ROM/non-ROM adapters and how the memory is calculated, but I cut them because it really tanked the pace of that section. Not to mention that I had nothing for coverage for it. :) I also didn't have hands-on experience and I was loathe to talk about something I couldn't verify first-hand (burned by the claimed 70ns SIMM compatibility, I guess).
There's also, depending on the board you have, a chance that the updated ADFs/SC.EXE in the BOPT update can eliminate the need for track zero initializers. There's a whole bit on the Ardent Tool's memory adapter page that talks about this, but without testing it first hand I don't know if it would be helpful in your situation or not. Some boards (Kingston?) require them regardless.
There's other scenarios where some PS/2s require a system partition for Initial Microcode Load (IML). And then there's others with Reference Partitions. I've never used one that does-I think they're for the 486/CPU Complex based machines. Someone with more experience than me can chime in about them.
@@userlandia In my case, the BOPT update was required to get the adapter to work at all, and I still require the track zero initializer. Still, good information for anybody struggling with one of these cards.
@bkbreyme Good to know, out of curiosity which RAM expander do you have?
@@userlandia I have an Enhanced 80386 memory expansion adapter FRU 34F3053-02 (Older FDDF style with factory-installed diagonal resistor OS/2 modification)
I remember having something similar but it was a 486