Before plugging it into a retro computer, plug it into a modern computer and run diskpart, select the drive of the card (be sure you select the card!) and run "clean". Then put it in the retro PC. Removes all MBR/GPT whatever from the drive so that fdisk can initialize it properly and ready it for making volumes and formatting. fdisk doesn't clean the MBR and such by itself.
Awesome video! I had three of these and I gave one away to a friend. Now I have two with one being in nice condition other than the floppy PCB having major damage. This video is making me want to get that machine out and attempt to restore it. Especially using a standard floppy drive is an option.
Hi Epictronics, Nice IBM PS/2 50. We have a 50 too. Advantech make SSD's. Kodak make the Compact Flash cards for Advantech and rebrand it. All of the Advantech products are for Industrial use and can take a lot of heavy presure during work. Now a days, we sell a lot of Advantech memory products. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
@@Epictronics1 yes, they are. Kodak in Etten-Leur, the Netherlands, make them and sell them for Advantech and Philips. The last one, Philips use these cards in medical equipment for hospitals.
14:40 that does look like an internal SCSI controller for an IBM Power5 system which run IBM i and AIX operating systems. A lot of the design in the PS/2’s was carried over into the early Power system server family - you would feel right at home with your passion for the early IBM hardware! IBM are now running Power10 systems so they still live on today albeit with modern internals. IBM have a museum in Hursley England which is recommended if you find yourself there.
14:25 - There are two different Logitech *scanner* adapter versions - I have both, and sent pictures in; There's a hand-held scanner, and I have one of those.
XT-IDE BIOS is a bit tricky about the content of the cards' MBR. fdisk /mbr may help, to make these "bad" cards bootable, and if not, then zeroing the first 100 sectors in DMDE or sth. similar will definitely help.
15:37 this strange floppy cable contraption is most likely for a backup tape streamer like QIC80. For a long time they were either sitting directly on the floppy controller or on a "streamer card", which was basically a floppy controller with a FDC765(compatible) chip, clocked at a higher data rate like 500kBit/s oder 1MBit/s. For this reason most tape drives could either be attached directly to the existing FDC (but operating slow) or at a decicated card for e.g. doubled data rate, just running the motor at double speed at the same time. (yes, like "high speed dubbing" on hifi stereos back in the day)
17:02 To fix that chip make a thin tool about 0.5mm in diameter with a 0.5mm bend at 30 degrees on the end. I use a long dressmakers pin, it's hardened steel and won't flex. Insert it into the end of the chip under the legs until it is in-line with the damaged legs then rotate it towards the legs and push it sideways and outwards to push the leg back into position. You can also use soldering iron at the same time and lift the leg up, straighten it and solder it back but that must be done very very carefully or you can break the leg off. Better to just push the legs until they don't touch and solder them in place if they are loose. I'll send you a pic of my tool.
Thanks. The two concerns I have with the repair are that the upper trace in the picture is damaged, and I can't see which pin it was connected to. Also, the worst pin might have a trace underneath the chip. If we're lucky, it could be N/C.
@@Epictronics1 If you have doubts about connectivity and you are capable to doing this, remove the chip completely, straighten the legs and put it back. Otherwise just push the legs from the inside until they don't touch and leave it alone. I've done this kind of job probably hundreds of times in 25 years of fixing arcade games and it's not fun. I found the easiest way was to remove the chip because more often than not playing with the legs pulled up SMD pads and that made it worse. The pads are only 0.5mm wide and traces/pads are only glued in place so applying too much heat and trying to move it while heating often ends up moving pads or traces under the chip. Better to play it safe and remove the chip, fix it and put it back.
I'm pretty sure the 5.25" disk drive adaptor you've got shipped with the IBM 4869 external 5.25" drive. I remember setting up a few Model 50s with them back in the day to help our users with the transition from ATs to PS/2s.
The board you wanted help with: It says LOGITECH on it, and that connector was used with their bus mice and hand-scanners. Since a PS/2 already comes with a PS/2 port, it's a hand-scanner interface board.
hand scanners... i still suffer from PTSD when they get mentioned. it was so frustrating to operate them. all those different limitations culminated to a horrible user experience.
If anyone ever needs printers to know where to get certain replacement parts from those capacitors that were leaking I order service mount components and threw our ones by the thousand from suppliers so I may be able to help you find a supplier that stocks them
Anyone who thinks MCA on IBM machines is a pain, MCA on non-IBM machines is even more of a pain. I've now got one of those McIDE cards in an RM Nimbus PC-386, after spending a bunch of money on SCSI cards that weren't compatible or weren't what the seller said. Originally a similar WD-L40 hard drive. I was even looking into bit-banging an SD card off the extra debug pins on the Snark Barker.
The so-called “bus mouse” standard is just a quadrature design, like most Commodore mouse designs. It is quite easy to wire a 9 pin D-sub to bus mouse adapter. PS/2 mice use a serial standard and additional encoders would need to be added to make it compatible, thus probably useless for an external cable mod.
I've had great success using non-detergent 30 weight motor oil (ND-30) on noisy desktop and laptop fan bearings. It's thicker, and fills in the slop left by cruddy bearings. Any place that sells lawnmowers and the like would have it.
Those special IBM hard disks for early PS/2 systems are actually IDE but 8-bit IDE. I wonder if those 30MB ones have the same issues with media degradation that the 20MB models have.
extensive checks for leaky or shorted capacitors before tuning stuff on is what i like here on Epitronics. it's embarrassing to watch other retrocomputing youtubers destroying stuff out of negligence. but perhaps it's a learning curve.
32:42 - it says "industrial grade". Maybe it is set as "Fixed drive". Some controllers may have issues booting from "removeable drives". There is a flag in the CF card, not sure if you can "hack" or "set" it but I guess it is possible - maybe that is the issue you are having. PS: Did you see the new usagi video? He had the shorted golden ROE caps in his last project. Not all values may get bad, but as I said, I don't trust them any longer.
It seems that the MS-DOS 6.22 installer forgets to run fdisk anyway to update the MBR if you already "fdisked" the drive before, it happened to me a lot of times with PCem and other emulators.
I just tried to send you an email but it was returned with: This message was blocked because its content presents a potential 552-5.7.0 security issue. Have you blocked zip files?
@@Epictronics1 no, I have no control over what gmail blocks. If the zip contained a doc or docx document that would explain it as they are not allowed. I replied to that mail....
Regarding the SD card, you need to set your partition to active in FDISK and may also want to do another "fdisk /mbr" on your C: drive. I've pretty much always had the same issue with CF and SD cards after partitioning and setting up DOS, and doing that has always fixed it for me so I feel those two steps should do the trick. The SD to IDE adapter is an active device and does all the translation to IDE (there's no "bootable" SD unlike CF, the adapter does it all). As long as it's being detected by the McIDE/system it should be bootable. CF cards can be hit and miss since some identify themselves as fixed disk (IDE) drives whereas others as removable storage which is not bootable but most of the time you really just need to check the active status and do the fdisk /mbr.
Does it work in IBM PS1 2011 model? Slim, desktop case. It has the same connector, I guess. Using some angle adapter there is a chance it will gonna fit inside...
They need to make a version of those sd/cf to IDE adapter boards that play the hard drive sounds through a speaker to replicate the OG experience better.
@@Epictronics1 You might try to get a ScanMan and the Software and show how scanning documents back in the time worked ;-) My Dad bought a ScanMan back then. It was quite funny to scan the pictures my sister painted and mess with them in Windows Paint.
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I like Monkey Island theme playing the exact moment the sound card is installed.
It took some fiddling to sync :)
Try running fdisk /mbr. This should fix the issue with the unbootable sd card.
Yes, it was mentioned in the live chat. I just tried it and it totally fixed the boot issue :)
This. And some suggest using the official SD format program to help, but fdisk /mbr has always worked for me.
I also thought about it while watching video 😀
came here to post this
Before plugging it into a retro computer, plug it into a modern computer and run diskpart, select the drive of the card (be sure you select the card!) and run "clean". Then put it in the retro PC. Removes all MBR/GPT whatever from the drive so that fdisk can initialize it properly and ready it for making volumes and formatting. fdisk doesn't clean the MBR and such by itself.
What an incredible set of donations! I don’t think I saw a PS/2 that clean in the 90s! Beautiful!
Christmas came early this year :)
Clean
Wow what a wonderful donation from Nick.. great video this week.. so fun!
Thanks!
It's amazing how a machine from 1992 is so compact and has fewer cables than something you would find now
I used to have a shorter model of that bus mouse card. That card is able to handle bus mouses and handy scanners.
Awesome video! I had three of these and I gave one away to a friend. Now I have two with one being in nice condition other than the floppy PCB having major damage. This video is making me want to get that machine out and attempt to restore it. Especially using a standard floppy drive is an option.
Thanks! Good luck with the project!
Hi Epictronics, Nice IBM PS/2 50. We have a 50 too. Advantech make SSD's. Kodak make the Compact Flash cards for Advantech and rebrand it. All of the Advantech products are for Industrial use and can take a lot of heavy presure during work. Now a days, we sell a lot of Advantech memory products. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Ok, so these are Kodak cards? Thanks
@@Epictronics1 yes, they are. Kodak in Etten-Leur, the Netherlands, make them and sell them for Advantech and Philips. The last one, Philips use these cards in medical equipment for hospitals.
Absolute pinnacle of PC engineering. Now into the rabbithole I go and try to figure out the "Z" part. Thank you for this!!
This is an awesome informational video.
Thanks :)
Wow, so many chips on that MCA floppy controller card
In very neat rows :)
Someone really wanted to do it off-the-shelf instead of using integrated logic.
14:40 that does look like an internal SCSI controller for an IBM Power5 system which run IBM i and AIX operating systems. A lot of the design in the PS/2’s was carried over into the early Power system server family - you would feel right at home with your passion for the early IBM hardware! IBM are now running Power10 systems so they still live on today albeit with modern internals. IBM have a museum in Hursley England which is recommended if you find yourself there.
Awesome. I'll see if I can find one :)
You make me want to Dig out my Old PS/2 Hardware...But I am over it, Well Maybe..I will look at a few More of your Vids..
Bring it out and enjoy it :)
A large number of very rare expansion cards. Very cool. I'm waiting for a video with details about them.
They will all be put in different systems and included in various videos
That would have been a great opportunity to do a speed test. A side-by-side of loading times for games and programs. Maybe you can revisit that.
Absolutely, I have already planned for it.
I have a couple of the Cumulus drives but never had the card to use with them. You're welcome to the drives.
Thanks. I wasn't able to find much about these drives. Do you know if there is some info out there?
14:25 - There are two different Logitech *scanner* adapter versions - I have both, and sent pictures in; There's a hand-held scanner, and I have one of those.
Great video :)
Thanks!
Cool XMAS Presents!
I was still using token ring as late as 1998. Giant pain in the ass, but ethernet could also be a pain back in the day.
XT-IDE BIOS is a bit tricky about the content of the cards' MBR. fdisk /mbr may help, to make these "bad" cards bootable, and if not, then zeroing the first 100 sectors in DMDE or sth. similar will definitely help.
yepp. fdisk/mbr fixed the boot issue. The IBM now boots from the SD card
15:37 this strange floppy cable contraption is most likely for a backup tape streamer like QIC80. For a long time they were either sitting directly on the floppy controller or on a "streamer card", which was basically a floppy controller with a FDC765(compatible) chip, clocked at a higher data rate like 500kBit/s oder 1MBit/s.
For this reason most tape drives could either be attached directly to the existing FDC (but operating slow) or at a decicated card for e.g. doubled data rate, just running the motor at double speed at the same time. (yes, like "high speed dubbing" on hifi stereos back in the day)
Cool, thanks
17:02 To fix that chip make a thin tool about 0.5mm in diameter with a 0.5mm bend at 30 degrees on the end. I use a long dressmakers pin, it's hardened steel and won't flex. Insert it into the end of the chip under the legs until it is in-line with the damaged legs then rotate it towards the legs and push it sideways and outwards to push the leg back into position. You can also use soldering iron at the same time and lift the leg up, straighten it and solder it back but that must be done very very carefully or you can break the leg off. Better to just push the legs until they don't touch and solder them in place if they are loose. I'll send you a pic of my tool.
Thanks. The two concerns I have with the repair are that the upper trace in the picture is damaged, and I can't see which pin it was connected to. Also, the worst pin might have a trace underneath the chip. If we're lucky, it could be N/C.
@@Epictronics1 If you have doubts about connectivity and you are capable to doing this, remove the chip completely, straighten the legs and put it back. Otherwise just push the legs from the inside until they don't touch and leave it alone. I've done this kind of job probably hundreds of times in 25 years of fixing arcade games and it's not fun. I found the easiest way was to remove the chip because more often than not playing with the legs pulled up SMD pads and that made it worse. The pads are only 0.5mm wide and traces/pads are only glued in place so applying too much heat and trying to move it while heating often ends up moving pads or traces under the chip. Better to play it safe and remove the chip, fix it and put it back.
@@g4z-kb7ct Yes, I think we need to remove the chip. With the chip installed, I can't see if there is a trace behind one of the pins
I'm pretty sure the 5.25" disk drive adaptor you've got shipped with the IBM 4869 external 5.25" drive. I remember setting up a few Model 50s with them back in the day to help our users with the transition from ATs to PS/2s.
i suspet the IDE card and the IDE to SD card adapter with some pinheaders and remove the conetors could be a all in one
loved the video thanks
Thanks
The board you wanted help with: It says LOGITECH on it, and that connector was used with their bus mice and hand-scanners. Since a PS/2 already comes with a PS/2 port, it's a hand-scanner interface board.
hand scanners... i still suffer from PTSD when they get mentioned. it was so frustrating to operate them. all those different limitations culminated to a horrible user experience.
Cool, thanks. I'll see if I can find one. Should be fun to try out
@Epictronics1 Think again :-D
Cool
Old capacitors seem to be of better quality than todays made. ??
15:11 Might be a revised version of the old 5028 Emerald Tape Adapter.
If anyone ever needs printers to know where to get certain replacement parts from those capacitors that were leaking I order service mount components and threw our ones by the thousand from suppliers so I may be able to help you find a supplier that stocks them
You don't pay for a giant ceramic resistor unless you plan for it to get very hot ;)
Anyone who thinks MCA on IBM machines is a pain, MCA on non-IBM machines is even more of a pain. I've now got one of those McIDE cards in an RM Nimbus PC-386, after spending a bunch of money on SCSI cards that weren't compatible or weren't what the seller said. Originally a similar WD-L40 hard drive. I was even looking into bit-banging an SD card off the extra debug pins on the Snark Barker.
We're in it for the challenge, right? :)
The so-called “bus mouse” standard is just a quadrature design, like most Commodore mouse designs. It is quite easy to wire a 9 pin D-sub to bus mouse adapter. PS/2 mice use a serial standard and additional encoders would need to be added to make it compatible, thus probably useless for an external cable mod.
nothing triggers nostaglia better than the monkey iisland intro music...
As others have mentioned, Logitech ScanMan. For the plebs who couldn't afford a HP Scanjet.
I've had great success using non-detergent 30 weight motor oil (ND-30) on noisy desktop and laptop fan bearings. It's thicker, and fills in the slop left by cruddy bearings.
Any place that sells lawnmowers and the like would have it.
DOS 6.22 FAT Partition limits to 2GB. Could put two or more partitions on it! or.... FreeDOS it and FAT32?
Yepp, totally works. The SD card now has four 2GB partitions and boots thanks to fdisk/mbr
@@Epictronics1 ohhh yeah... hmmm, for more MBR fun, install a Boot Manager! like Plop or SMRT Bootmanager. lol
Those special IBM hard disks for early PS/2 systems are actually IDE but 8-bit IDE. I wonder if those 30MB ones have the same issues with media degradation that the 20MB models have.
All my 30MB drives still work, but my two early "non-Z" drives are dead
extensive checks for leaky or shorted capacitors before tuning stuff on is what i like here on Epitronics. it's embarrassing to watch other retrocomputing youtubers destroying stuff out of negligence. but perhaps it's a learning curve.
No 16megs RAM upgrade? 🤔
Good video!
Thanks! I will probably install 8MB on a RAM expansion card.
32:42 - it says "industrial grade". Maybe it is set as "Fixed drive". Some controllers may have issues booting from "removeable drives". There is a flag in the CF card, not sure if you can "hack" or "set" it but I guess it is possible - maybe that is the issue you are having.
PS: Did you see the new usagi video? He had the shorted golden ROE caps in his last project. Not all values may get bad, but as I said, I don't trust them any longer.
The boot issue has been fixed with fdisk/mbr. The SD card now boots and has four 2GB partitions :)
The coating is more than likely Cadmium plating
It seems that the MS-DOS 6.22 installer forgets to run fdisk anyway to update the MBR if you already "fdisked" the drive before, it happened to me a lot of times with PCem and other emulators.
Yes, It turned out to be an MBR problem. After a fdisk/MBR, the SD card now boots
30:50 Wow that mca Sound Blaster looks really sweet! Who modified it? Where can I get one? ;-P
😅
I just tried to send you an email but it was returned with: This message was blocked because its content presents a potential
552-5.7.0 security issue.
Have you blocked zip files?
@@Epictronics1 no, I have no control over what gmail blocks. If the zip contained a doc or docx document that would explain it as they are not allowed. I replied to that mail....
Regarding the SD card, you need to set your partition to active in FDISK and may also want to do another "fdisk /mbr" on your C: drive. I've pretty much always had the same issue with CF and SD cards after partitioning and setting up DOS, and doing that has always fixed it for me so I feel those two steps should do the trick.
The SD to IDE adapter is an active device and does all the translation to IDE (there's no "bootable" SD unlike CF, the adapter does it all). As long as it's being detected by the McIDE/system it should be bootable.
CF cards can be hit and miss since some identify themselves as fixed disk (IDE) drives whereas others as removable storage which is not bootable but most of the time you really just need to check the active status and do the fdisk /mbr.
Yepp, fdisk/mbr fixed it. The SD card now boots :)
Does it work in IBM PS1 2011 model? Slim, desktop case. It has the same connector, I guess. Using some angle adapter there is a chance it will gonna fit inside...
The connector is identical but the slot in the PS/1 is not MCA
They need to make a version of those sd/cf to IDE adapter boards that play the hard drive sounds through a speaker to replicate the OG experience better.
You may need a UDMA cf-card to be able to boot. At least that is true for IDE 68k Macintosh models.
fdisk/mbr fixed the issue :) The SD card now boots
@ Splendid!!!
👍
I have a couple of ps2 systems i would like to get running a again. Where can i get this MCIDE.
zzxio.com/product/mcide/
Have you tried "fdisk /mbr" command on the non bootable CF and SD?
Yes, it fixed the boot issue
What model thermal camera you are using? Thanks
InfiRay P2 Pro
Is it possible to find a cap here that *isn't* leaking?
In a computer from the 90s? Not likely :)
the entire computer is one big atari cartridge
5:09 Nope. I comes with a 30MB HD and 1 FDD.
The Logitech card looks like a Logitech ScanMan adapter.
Oh, I see. There is very little info about the card on Ardent. I think that card may be a dead end, unfortunately.
@@Epictronics1 You might try to get a ScanMan and the Software and show how scanning documents back in the time worked ;-)
My Dad bought a ScanMan back then. It was quite funny to scan the pictures my sister painted and mess with them in Windows Paint.
@@ThorstenDrews If I can find one :)
Gawd I hated MCA bus. Gaming on it was such PITA, no SB :(
Luckily that has now been fixed
That fan has ball bearings. They are sealed. Adding oil will do nothing for it. That only works for fluid dynamic bearing fans.
I think the bearing sealings are shut. The oil eventually found its way in and the fan now sounds much better :)
I've lost interest in this kind of content. You know what? 86box works really well.
You may need a UDMA cf-card to be able to boot. At least that is true for IDE 68k Macintosh models.