Based Eirika defender, this scene has always made so much sense to me despite people clowning on it so much I really do think Eirika had the nightmarish thought of "if I dont give my best friend the stone he will die knowing that I betrayed him at the very end and didnt believe in his ability to change anything", which in some ways is worse than trying (giving him the stone) and failing knowing that she gave it a shot
When I played Sacred Stones, I found Eirika incredibly kind, perhaps the kindest person in any games I played before. So it made perfect sense to me that she gave the stone to Lion. I would be shocked if she DIDN'T give the stone.
If we wanted to keep up the recent video trend of 'similar but different' things in Fire Emblem, we should've paired this with the equally controversial decision made by Celica, and how both aren't as bad as many say
The problem with that is less anything Celica actually does and more the whole, Duma faithful's designs being far too "generic evil cultist" when they really just need to be misguided and living in the past instead for the plot they're actually trying to tell.
@@effluxi9587 That is very true. In Valentia they're an established religion that she may already be aware of and not have as much reason to doubt the methods of, while to the player, we've already seen this 11 times across all forms of media
Eh, Celica's scene is a LOT worse. Her entire game is her making pretty dumb choices as the game is pretty anti-god and the game tries to use her to show the believers side and it doesn't balance that at all. But also Gaiden's story is pretty bad in general.
@@nahte123456Celica actually does not get tricked by Jedah in Gaiden, it is exclusive to the remake. In Gaiden, she just gets to Duma before Alm and he has to come and help her before it's too late, I think Gaiden's story was pretty good considering what could be made in 1992 because of the hardware.
@@effluxi9587 I agree, it makes sense that Celica sacrifices her soul out of her own volition, since she is as religious as the duma faithful and wants to prevent further bloodshed, however, just like you said, the duma faithful are so outright evil and manipulative the whole faith aspect of the decision becomes a huge stretch.
I only recently got around to playing sacred stones myself (last year) and I had always heard about eirika's "stupid decision" thing- in a similar vein to "Celica do stupid thing" from SoV. I had already played SoV and and experienced Celica's moment(tm) which I definitely understand that people reacted that way to (it doesn't feel satisfying, and the game doesn't clearly show why she would do this, at least in my opinion) and since the two moments were often mentioned together I assumed they would be similar, but when I actually reached the moment in FE8 I thought "why do people act like this is a dumb and naive girl ruins story moment? Eirika being hopeful and optimistic (at least regarding Lyon) is so very in character I would be more shocked if she DIDN'T risk the stone for Lyon to potentially save himself and she believes to be in control at the time." I actually really liked that moment, and I wouldn't even consider it "naivety" as many did. And while I did already know (from both being spoiled on the game and fantasy media tropes) that it wouldn't go well, and that lyon could never be saved, it was easy to understand Eirika's thoughts, because I do like lyon too, and would have hoped he could be saved.
Yes, also majority of players would also take the same decision if faced with something remotely similar with a loved one, ie, having to give hand of something valuable to save said loved one's life.
Eirika is such a good lord character, I love how her defining qualities are seeing the best in everyone, having faith that people can be saved or changed for the better, and that she has to be the change she wants. The prologue alone shows that she hasn't fought seriously before, and over time we learn she only started training a few years ago; she's out of her depth completely, yet she raises a small platoon to rescue her brother, someone she clearly sees as better than her in every way. She charges in to danger, and is pretty instrumental to Ephraim escaping Renvall. Eirikas route is so heartfelt and story driven, I love it, especially this scene. She actually grows as a person, she learns and gets stronger, it's so cool
I swear, every time we get scenes like these, the character who does the "stupid decision" gets shat on constantly, even in cases where it makes perfect sense for said character to make said decision... Which is 9/10 the case with these scenes, including this one
Reminds me of one scene in Yggdra Union where titular character charges alone in an attempt to kill a retreating blazing emperor. People shit on Yggdra for being reckless. When it was estabilished that she harbor an insane hatred for said blazing emperor for killing her family and ravaging her kingdom, and wants nothing more than rip his head and hang in the gates of Paltina.
@@BardockSkywalker the head ripping was an allusion, but Yggdra Union is a princess fighting a flame themed emperor for her homeland. and yes, said Emperor exploits her anger to get the best of her, just like how Dimitri dies offscreen in one of the Three Houses routes. its a very cool game, and plays in a very unique way compared to other SRPGs, it was released recently on STEAM, but thats a very old GBA game originally.
Right? I always thought this was totally realistic. How many times have we extended kindness or forgiveness to those who, in the end, didn't deserve it and betrayed us? I found this scene very relatable.
I think one of the funnier parts of this whole thing is that I have literally never heard a word spoken about the Ephraim version of this scene. So when I went Ephraim mode, I saw it completely blind which I didn't expect. SPOILERS BELOW The Demon King like paralyses Ephraim, takes the stone, and crushes it. I still think its funny how not a soul talks about the Ephraim mode scene
Spoilers for the future, but this was originally going to be a two parter where I talked about both scenes, but I couldnt think of how to do it in a way that didnt feel like I was interrupting myself to talk about the other, so I split it into two videos. Ephraim's part will come soon!
@user-pg7iy8jz3n I saw that video too. Enjoyed it and the analysis from the Ephraim route, but you just looking at one side of coin. And the other side isn't bad just because you don't like the interpretation of this antagonist.
I dont think enough FE Fans think in character perspective as much as they should, there are some that do, but then fail to consider multiple perspectives (3H Discourse)
Tidus is one of my fav FF characters and he has a lot of good scenes, he's sadly been labeled as funny laugh man when he's more than that AND that laugh scene is really good
@femspaint2911 everyone says "oh no that scene has cringe voice acting, they sound bad" and I'm like, it's SUPPOSED to sound bad, they're forcing themselves to laugh at nothing until they actually start laughing for real.
Posted in a reply, but I'll post in general, too: Ephraim's story was always much more about themes of aggression/vengeance/betrayal/leadership/determination and so on (sort of a traditional masculine tale of warriors and generals -- hell he even marches to the capital to fight the emperor), harder, and about the core gameplay, whereas Eirika's felt more like a developed story about compassion/empathy/camaraderie, coming to terms with death, and maybe even dealing with the point that she's naive and generally passive in comparison with her assertive brother, though the route is less difficult. The stories were designed to represent the characters themselves and hence why Lyon behaves differently with each hero -- violent and cruel against Ephraim and emotionally manipulative against Eirika (this obviously wouldn't have worked against Ephraim). By the way, the different music tracks definitely help represent this with Ephraim's track being "Determination" and Erika's "Rise Above."
I lovr the way the Sacred Stones shows and represents the ups and downs of masculinity and femininity through Ephraim and Eirika in their respective routes and how the in-betweener; Lyon treats both
I'm 100% sure that if Eirika refuses to give Lyon the stone, Formortiis would just petrify Eirika the same as he did to Ephraim. Basically the entire plot of this scene is that the Renais stone will get crushed no matter who the holder was, nothing changes. Eirika shouldn't be degraded for falling for it.
perhaps the great evil suffering-loving demon king played out each scenario in such a way that he knew would hurt each lord the most. ephraim, the man of action and strength, is left powerless as he watches a tragedy happen in front of his eyes. eirika, kind and trusting, is betrayed by the image of her friend, whom she thought she was helping.
Very nice and concise explanation to a complex subject. I’ve always thought of it to myself as “when your best friend asks you to help him save his life, you’re gonna help him, even at great risk.”
I honestly never thought that anyone making fun of this was serious. This is the most in character and drsmatic moment Erika gets in the story, she is defined by her kind heart, learning swordplay by necessity and nothing else. Her trusting her _lifelong friend_ about being possesed WICH IS TRUE, is such a powerfull moment and great showing of her tragic flaw that anyone who doesnt get it has no idea about writing. In contrast, Ephraim's scene is bullshit. Getting mind controled or some crap to hand the stone by force? So shitty and contrived. Lyon shouldve been doing that all the time!
if enough people joke about something untrue, some may be led to believe its true even if the intention was just to be playful. and this is why i despise the "Racist Roy" meme, that turns the one guy fighting for harmony between dragons and humans into "Racist man, because Human Virtue skill LOL" every lie is potentially harmful, even the most seemengly innocuous one can have unpredictable and unintended consequences.
Ephraim wasn’t mind controlled, but paralysed/„stoned“. He was unable to move and Lyon pilfered the stone with minimal resistance. Only makes the whole thing slightly less bad. After all Stone is rather inaccurate so he can’t use that all the time. However, it’s a monster skill and Lyon shouldn’t be able to use it at all.
Hate to say it, but I've been guilty of that first paragraph myself. One of the reasons why I replay games like this and pay much better attention to the storyline/characters nowadays. I still need to improve on empathizing with characters and realizing why they make decisions like that.
something i feel goes understated here is the impact of the horrors of war on eirika. she's had to spend untold days marching across magvel, watching her friends, family, and countrymen all die. even further, it's not just a war of the cruelty of man, but the incomprehensible literal monsters appearing before her. after all this, her mind would be absolutely broken. whose wouldn't? and at this moment, her childhood friend appears before her, promising the thing she yearns for the most: a return to normalcy. the thought of even a chance at fixing something amidst the vast suffering is enough to get someone to act in desperation. a sacred artifact feels like nothing but a plain rock, well worth giving up to heal a loved one.
I think people miss the L'Arachel moment where it's implied that there's hope. It's not a very memorable moment and they only briefly touch upon it in exactly one part of the game. There are issues with how the Eirika scene plays out. I think it's overblown how bad the scene is, but I also think it's really reductive to minimize the issue under the vague umbrella of misogyny.
Yep. And ironically, Eirika is one of the most feminine characters in Fire Emblem, flawed because of it, and it still an extremely strong character... In fact, I'd say it's BECAUSE of her femininity and flaws that she is strong. We don't get to see that anymore in Hollywood due to the parade of men in female skin suits...
It's always annoyed me when people shit on characters for making flawed decisions based on human emotions and congnitive biases. That's the core of, among other things, the Illiad and the Odyssey for Athena's sake!
Pretty sure Lyon was pretty much gone and in the darkness once he started showing up in the cutscenes, after beating him in final chapter it could be his soul being released and sharing some final words, idk, but I'm of the opinion that Lyon's 'aughs' and 'oooos' and him trying to actually get control back while the Demon King is acting like him. It's just a scene about Eirika getting tricked by the Demon King, and any previous sighting of Lyon can be attributed to the Demon King using Lyon's memories to act like him, "There are memories of you in this flesh I wear.". The biggest gripe I have with this scene, is the fact that everyone moves on afterwards, nobody asks Eirika why she would just give him the stone, nobody is angry or feels hopeless about the Stone of Rausten being their last bastion of hope. Eirika and Ephraim each have a weakness that is exploited in that scene, Eirika is too trusting, and Ephraim too rash, the Demon King exploits their emotions and it's done in a way that's fine, it's just that after the stone is broken and the Demon King leaves, the scene just ends abruptly, everyone catches up, Ephraim consoles Eirika or reassures her that he's fine, then it hard cuts to "Well we can't go down the cliff the Demon King went down, oh well, on to Rausten." Nothing about the scene afterwards is focused on the Sacred Stone of Renais being gone, it's not about Eirika making a mistake, it's all about Lyon never being with them since before the invasion, and Eirika is grieving over that fact. The only character development with Eirika from this scene is when in the next chapter L'Arachel asks her what Lyon would want her to do, which leads her to the conclusion to defeat the Demon King so that Lyon's soul could rest. The mistake Eirika makes does not make her grow as a character, it's learning that Lyon is forever gone. The reasons for Eirika giving the stone are fine but the catalyst for Eirika realizing that her friend is gone being the destruction of an Anti-Satan McGuffin, as well as the lack of accountability she faces for that, makes the scene worse
In my mind Eirika suffers from time of release. 'Nuance' games weren't as big a thing and at least in my view FE story analysis was pretty bad up until 3Hs. Meaning she gets hit by 1- guys that hate on female characters, 2-people that don't pay attention and just think the scene is dumb, 3-people not going to think about the scene, and 4-an echo chamber of the above. Most of the time I hear people playing SS recently or discussing it in depth it's not that hated of a scene, at least from what I've experienced. It's much more older fans from that time or people that haven't actually played the game I see insult it.
I'm a pretty rash person. If the girl I liked was possessed by an ancient evil demon and I was given a chance-- only a slight chance-- to save her, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I probably wouldn't put much thought into it. Eirika giving Lyon the Sacred Stone is stupid, yes. But it's also good writing for characters to make stupid decisions. Makes them feel more like people and less like video game characters.
My brother and I were both confused to learn that this scene was controversial. It is really quite a good scene, and conveys Eirika's genuine wish that Lyon could be saved.
Remember, the fire emblem community will bitch and moan about If so and so is a Mary Sue is not but then throw a hissy fit the moment you have a protagonist that isn't perfect and makes questionable decisions.
I never hated her for this moment and I'm not alone in not disliking her because of this scene. A friend and I both would occasionally talk about sacred stones and how much we bring up the fact that people love to dog Eirika just because of this scene....... When it's clear that barely anyone even tries to see from her perspective. Like this feels really much in character for her to do and it doesn't make her feel stupid or makes her act like a dumb dumb. She had that little bit of hope that maybe just maybe if she did something like this she could have saved her best friend. So because of that I never really faulted her for something like this at all........ Celica from echoes meanwhile is a completely different story entirely and she's arguably way worse.
I really need to replay eirika mode sometime. I sorta instantly concluded that she was boring, so I didn't put much thought into her story. You're definitely doing a good job of turning my interpretation of her around.
Ephraim's story was always much more about themes of aggression/vengeance/betrayal/leadership/determination and so on (sort of a traditional masculine tale of warriors and generals -- hell he even marches to the capital to fight the emperor), harder, and about the core gameplay, whereas Eirika's felt more like a developed story about compassion/empathy/camaraderie, coming to terms with death, and maybe even dealing with the point that she's naive and generally passive in comparison with her assertive brother, though the route is less difficult. By the way, the different music tracks definitely help represent this with Ephraim's track being "Determination" and Erika's "Rise Above."
I honestly wonder if the stone could have saved him at this moment. In the final battle the last stone straight up pulls Formortiis soul out and traps it so who could really say if it couldn't have worked here.
"He (Saint Latona) was built different. So Eirika thinks: 'I believe in Lyon - he's built different too!'. Yes, Lyon is built different - he's built WRONG." 10/10 quote right there lol Never saw anything stupid the first time I played SS, and will never do: all I see is a kindhearted gal that is willing to save her best friend from an ancient devil no matter what. She's seen what he could do, so who knows - maybe the stone could break the possession. Plus, Fomortiis knows everything about Lyon, and of course that includes the twins' weaknesses: in Eirika's route, he appears more as the Prince of Grado, making her think Lyon may still be there, and using that to trick her. As for Ephraim, he's a heroic but cocky guy that stabs before talking, so Fomo doesn't hide at all and taunts him, and that way he can get Eph picking a fight he CANNOT win.
I don’t really interact with the “community” I guess and didn’t know people hated this scene. Lyon and Eirika are very close and she’s a very compassionate character. Of course she’s gonna want to help her dying best friend practically begging her for help. Yes, it’s a powerful Macguffin and should be handled with care but it’s also possibly the only thing she thinks could save him. Lyon has performed miracles with their own Sacred stone so maybe he can create another miracle with this one.
I think this shows the big issue with Sacred Stones’ writing. Ephraim is Big Strong Lord Man™ who walks into places and just wins battles (the man conquers a major Grado fort with three men by his side, one of whom is actively betraying him) and then evades capture by just… being awesome (at least that’s what the game implies). Most dialogue about Ephraim is how strong he is, and most of his dialogue is about being strong, getting stronger, getting OTHER people stronger, or protecting those he cares about most. Hell, his dialogue in Chapter 8 is about HIM saving Eirika, when she is the one trying to rescue him. Ephraim is SO strong that the only thing that can stop him is literal demon magic to stop him in his place; not his hubris, not a character flaw, nothing. Eirika is much more nuanced. She’s much more sheltered than Ephraim, since she only just learned basic swordplay a couple of years before the game’s start, and knows little outside of her castle and her friends-all of Eirika’s pre-existing relationships are with other royals, or with knights who are consistently in the castle or with her brother. To say Eirika is naïve is a moot point because it is fairly obvious. Her story is about her learning about the world around her, meeting others and hearing their journeys. She uses those strengths of others to boost her own army because she recognizes her flaws. Eirika is very “my friends are my power”. I do think the scene with her handing the stone to Lyon could have been handled much better, but it doesn’t make Eirika stupid. She is talking to her BEST FRIEND, who, up until a chapter before, has still been using the guise of sweet innocent Lyon to exploit Eirika’s natural faith in others. That trick wouldn’t work on Ephraim, because he isn’t as trusting as Eirika is.
There is a little more to Ephraim. He himself admits that he is stupid and rash, he understands that he has responsibilities as a future king but still actively evades them, it took apocalipsys to make him actually care about citizens (and not even in all endings). Tbh, his wins are one part bullshitting through, other part is intuition, so its not like game implies that he has at least fracture of planning ahead, its pretty straightforward: he can fight well but not much anything else.
I always LOVED that scene. It made me cry when I played the game as a young kid. It is significantly more compelling because eirika makes a clear mistake based on intense emotions
Think about it this way. What if it actually was Lyon, who has been shown to be able to temporarily shake the demon king and heal using the sacred stone? Even if it was a 1% chance of it really being Lyon, can you really imagine eirika letting that chance go?
It may have been possible, given how Rausten's Sacred Stone alone was enough to trap Formotiis' soul. In fact, if it were to happen, I think the plot would've just skipped a few key plot points, such as getting the Rausten Sacred Twins, and Morva (Myrrh's father, I think? I don't remember the details) getting turned enemy by force. In fact, it may have led Riev to become the new host for Formotiis because then chapters 19 and 20 would have yet to happen to allow his death.
@@Not_AlaniusI don't know your interpeation but based on your comment seems like you did. I was saying It would make sense in character if erika thought Lyon holding a scared stone would either weaken the demon king's possession of him if not free him outright.
I appreciate this kind of analysis. for a lot of people, it doesn't really matter the reason why someone does the wrong thing- after all, it doesn't make it any more or less wrong. But reflecting on why people do things is how we come to forgive people, and grow all around And really, Erika doing the thing that basically all the villainous Fire Emblem Dragons say humans do over and over is really fitting for the themes of these games
People who shit on this scene are intellectually bankrupt. Same with the Tidus laugh. They just take shit out of context and think they're really smart, even though they've entirely lost the plot and look idiotic.
Something I never got about this discourse is the fact that if Ephraim is your chosen lord, Renais’ stone ALSO gets destroyed in the same place. The demon king is as devious as he is evil- he tortures Ephraim in that moment by making him feel powerless and watch as the stone is destroyed. He makes Eirika despair by manipulating her kindness; but if she didn’t believe him or refused to hand it over- the demon king would have taken it and destroyed it JUST as easily as with Ephraim. It was going to happen either way, and it was a great bit of characterization for Eirika for all of the reasons you spell out here. Thanks!
I would argue that the emotional investment was handled perfectly, as Lyon is consistently one of if not the most popular villains in the franchise. A ton of people love and care about the three of them
Anyone who says Eirika is stupid for this is forgetting that Erika is not an android governed completely by cold hard logic, human connection and empathy be damned. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people calling Eirika dumb for this would do the same thing in her place. I think I would. Lyon is your best friend who you grew up with. Outside of your brother, he's the closest thing to family you have left because your parents are in an FE game thus are dead. You know how kind-hearted Lyon has always been and what a smart guy he was. Now he's being controlled by FE-Satan and you're desperate to free him but are told that it's hopeless. Suddenly you find Lyon, looking how he's always looked, talking like how he always talked to you. He says he can free himself if you just give him the stone. Lyon is telling you there's a chance to save him, that everything can be right again. And he's right in front of you. It's really difficult to accept your loved one is gone when they are standing right in front of you and acting like how they always have been. Maybe somewhere logically, you know this is a bad call but won't you take the chance to save your best friend anyway? Would you be able to live with yourself if you rejected your friend here? What if Lyon was right? What if there was hope? I feel like you would have to be some sort of Sage with a maxed out Wisdom and Confidence to make the right call here. Eirika is not stupid. She simply just could not accept her best friend was gone. Again, something that many people find hard to do even when their loved one is dead and buried. It's exponentially harder to do when their body and memories are being controlled by Satan to act exactly like them. I can't fault Erika for failing to do a task that difficult. I would also fail and 90% of FE players would fail too.
Is everyone for getting that the first stage of grief is denial. Why are people acting like they would never be tricked by a master of manipulation that has probably done tricks like this for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
Thank you for defending my best girl Eirika. Sacred stones was my first FE game on my old weird modified gba with tons of (i strongly assume) pirated games that my grandpa gifted to me. (He had no idea what absolute treasure he brought me that day and neitger did i, until i found out normal gba's dint habe over 100 games saved on the console) its dead now but man, the memories. Sacred Stones will always have a big spot in my heart. I liked it so much, it was the only game i researched about amd then found the newest installment was Awakening, been hooked on the series ever since.
I always figured that pretty much people misconstrued Erica and Ephraim story lines where is ephraim's was a story of Revenge and justice Erica was a story of love. Ephraim didn't really need to grow as a person. He was a capable Warrior who stormed the castle with three guys at the very beginning of the game time and time again Erica places her absolute trust in people only for it to be taken away from her. It happens with Novala, who she also handed the sacred stone to. it happens with Orson, and it happens here with Lyon. Erica's undying Hope For Humanity caused her to want to believe something so much that she chose to regardless
The reason this discussion comes around so often is not just because it's a female protagonist (misogyny), it's because she's one of the *few* female protagonists in the franchise (misogyny again). And even 20 years later, people fail to remember that most female leads tend to be more emotional than the male leads (actually internalized sexism this time). People think this scene is stupid because they watched the same story unfold dozens of times, but fail to have empathy to understand why a human character would do that. I never had a problem with Eirika or FE8's story, personally, but after watching a Mekkah play through of FE8 with MarkyJoe, going Ephraim's route, the latter mentioned how "Ephraim is such a frat boy", and with that I noticed how he's the real problem lord of the game. Dude is a male Mary Sue and no one bats an eye, just because it's the generic action fantasy protagonist routine. A (female) videogame character has an emotional human moment in the middle of an action fantasy story, of course people would dogpile her for acting "out of character". Compare this scene with FE7's "Eliwood unknowingly kills Ninian". That's an emotional fantasy scene that gets everyone the first time. In Bismix's "So, I finally played FE7" skit, he drops the comedy, puts the sad cutscene music and is like "oh no, he just killed her... wait, he doesn't know? HE DOESN'T KNOW! OH MY GOD! He's putting the pieces together. Oh no, he's devastated, look at the portrait...". We, as players, know what's happening, even though the characters don't. However, since this is a common thing to happen in "hero's journey" type of story. FE8 tried to have a more human character with Eirika, but the *humans* that played the game weren't _human enough_ to understand her in this more complex scene. Back in the day, you could call it misogyny. Nowadays, I'm calling you an illiterate with no reading comprehension or a lizardpeople with no emotions. There's a reason that I love robot characters in media, it's because they always struggle to define what being a human mean, and over the course of the story, develop emotions, bonds and love. If only FE fans could leave their basement to experience human emotions... 😔 /s
I meant more like: people sometimes call it just misogyny but there are also other factors at play, like the internalized sexism I mentioned. Male protagonist does male protagonist things, male audience is fine. Female protagonist does female protagonist things, male audience don't understand and complains. In most media, the moment a close friend of the main character dies is an emotional scene that everyone loves. Like the "Eliwood killing Ninain" I've mentioned. This Eirika scene is when Lyon finally dies, in her eyes, even though he was long consumed. But most people don't understand it, and then complain about it, for many reasons, but I'm insisting that it isn't just misogyny, which is the first thing the fanbase tries to say. It's just people being dumb, and doubling down when videos like this one tries to disprove them.
funny thing is eirika is actually right, while it is mostly a fan theory heroes has given some validity to the idea that lyon was in control in eirika's route but pretended to be completely possesed, he does the same in ephraim's route so why not here as well, the reason he would do this is his feelings towards each one, he envies ephraim so he tries to surpass him by showing he is in control but he loves eirika so he plays the victim, lyon has changed but not because formortiis has taken control, he let his insecurities consume him wich led him down his dark path
honestly i never understood why people hate the erika version of this scene but are ok with ephraim's to me eirika giving the stone made sense, she thought there was a chance she could save her friend meanwhile, Ephraim knows full well that's the demon king, he charges at him and gets the stone stone broken like an idiot, and for some reason people gave him a pass for it
The only scene more unfairly criticized than the Eirika Handles the Stone to the Demon King is "All fell Dragons must die, but i wanted to be a good Dragon."
All I want to know is, why does her name have the extra "I" in it? I always want to say it in some weird, German accent and go "EYE-ree-ka". Everyone else goes "Nah, fam, this is normal "ERica" name." I feel like this name is misspelled, or nobody knows how to pronounce it, like "Lyon."
I think seeing the inverse of this in Eripham mode is what really elevates this to peak fiction for me. Lyon (Demon King?) talking about his envy and hatred to Ephraim and pulling this for Erika always felt like it really split their characters. Especially when people say that FE lords (especially the females) are all the same.
Very true this coupled with another video I forgot that shows that Lyon was always in control. It ties it all together rather perfectly. ... in a depressing way for Eirika. Lyon was different like Latona.
Wow I didn’t realize this was the context of this moment… never played these games but wow, seems disproportionate, this anger towards Eirika, ntm on turquoise mother
This scene is actually well written. It can be interpreted as "Eirika did something stupid for the sake of the plot." However, it's not that. Anyone who understands Eirika's character (and why she's the best female JRPG protagonist of all time on a writing standpoint imho) would know that she is a flawed human being who wants to trust Lyon, and so her stupid decision was yes, stupid from our perspective along with Lyon's and the other cast members (God I miss when Fire Emblem characters felt like real people), but it makes sense for the CHARACTER, which is what's important.
Thats pretty well thought out honestly. Never really did this route because lance man was cooler, but I see your point. Celica was much worse with the Duma cultists, and I think the mindset of those who played it have been solidified through internet arguments, more than revisiting the game itself. And I love the game to bits, so anything that puts a positive light on it reminds me of why I enjoyed it. For a more recent apt comparison, Starlord in Infinity War had a similar moment during the Thanos duel, when he bashed the his head in, and made the team lose a winnable fight. They did it for/because of love.
I maintain that Eirika shouldn't have trusted Lyon here because by this point in the story she already experienced: 1)being coerced into giving away the sacred stone for the lives of others, which she didn't know she had at the time. As far as she knew, she just had to trade away a ring which she was told about that its ambiguously important by Seth. Regardless of that, she performed spectacularly, not only not trusting the enemy's promise and protecting the sacred stone, but also managing to rescue the hostages from impending doom. She has shown that she isn't as naive as people might think of her, that she can tell not everyone is trustworthy, and managed to carve out a third option where both the stone and her people were protected 2)someone close to her, Orson, whom she knew as a friend and ally, exploiting her feelings for the people she loves to trick her and lure her into a trap. Trap for which she falls, because again: person she thinks of as a friend and trusts. But it's okay, it's not even (fully) her fault in the first place that they fell into a trap. It's Ephraim's tangentially for being missing behind enemy lines with no contact for so long, so when one of the people last seen with Ephraim tells her "your brother has been captured and is being held in this castle", of course she's gonna believe him. (What I want to know, *Seth* , is if you knew from the start Orson was full of it and luring you into a trap, why did you wait until you were INSIDE the castle to say anything and catch Orson in his lies, Seth? Huh, Seth?!). But it's okay, now she knows for the future that people will take advantage of her relationships to trick her From these two experiences, when confronted with the decision to give "Lyon" the sacred stone in order to save him, Eirika has already learned the necessary lessons that would allow her to make the right choice in the moment: NOT giving away the sacred stone to the guy who tried to kill her last chapter. She should have known better, in-universe, than to simply trust "Lyon", because this is the third time something similar has happened to her. Now granted, you make very good points about why Eirika would trust Ly "Lyon" and give him the sacred stone in the process: she's talked to Lyon before, Lyon is her childhood whom she loves and trusts and knows what he's capable of, and her conversation with L'Arachel gave her hope that Lyon could be saved. What you say makes perfect sense. .....But consider this: it's a sacred STONE. The magical plot devices *required* to defeat the demon king, of which there are only five, three of which have already been shattered and the one in Rausten of which the situation is unknown. As far as everyone knows, Renais's stone is the only one they have secured and Eirika has spent the entire game protecting it from those who would take it from her. She *knows* its importance, she *knows* the world is doomed without it and she knows better than to just give it away. It doesn't even have to be about trusting Lyon or not, but rather NOT trusting the demon king. Like you said, Lyon may or may not still be there, but she *knows* the demon king IS in there. Even if Eirika trusts that it's really Lyon who's speaking to her, how can she trust the demon king NOT to suddenly take over once she's handed over the stone? And taking from the previously mentioned spider incident, where Eirika managed to protect both the stone and the civilians, she could ask Lyon to lay down his arms and surrender to them, after which they'll be keeping watch on him, but ALSO tell them everything about the stone and how to use it so work together towards studying the stone and saving Lyon. Then events play out similarly to those in Ephraim's route: "Lyon" eventually drops the facade, places a barrier between him and Eirika, takes the stone and smashes it, then leaves before reinforcements arrive. That way, the story proceeds as normal, only this time Eirika isn't made to look worse for wear by ignoring half the stuff that's been happening to her throughout the game
Eirika's growths are pretty darn good for FE8(They're better or equal to Franz's growths in everything other than HP, where she only loses by 10%). Her bases, swordlock and promotion lock until the lategame are the things that hold her back as a unit.
I dont know why people need to make up story reasons to dislike Eirika, her stats are a good enough reason already Jokes aside, emotionally driven characters go hard it sucks people have 0 media literacy
I think everyone is mad at this scene for the exact reasons you said. But what bothers ME personally is that. She is a princess, she almost sacrificed mankind's hope (her kingdoms inhabitants as well) for 1 man. Say what you will about this scene. But this romantic yet dishopeful scene is very special. Once you realize that for her, every life is worth the world to her and that Lyon was implied to be Eirika's crush. That said this noble made a choice that cost the future of mankind (it was solved but if it's solved does it automatically make the person free of blame?). At this point you gotta ask. If a person of nobility, who's in charge of thousands of lives, has the choice to choose between 1 person VS the world. Is it really fine to make that choice?
Seth calls Eirika out on exactly that on their A support. "Lady Eirika. You are a noble of Renais. The nobility should not favor one subject over another. How can they maintain their fealty if you treat one so differently?" Eirika: …… "You may have to forego such attachments just to defend your country." There will be times when victory in battle demands a sacrifice." If you cannot send your men to die, then you are not fit to rule."
So i understand your point and all, personally i dont hate Eirika as a main character, if anything i think she's a better main character than Ephiraim. My main problem is what Eirika is at this point of the journey. She's aware of the evils of humanity, how morally bankrupt they can be and what a region looks like *without* a sacred stone to protect it. Eirika also just recently claimed her birthright and saved her kingdom from destruction. She now understands that with Ephiraim they have a responsibility to not only their kingdom but the entire world to protect it. Eirika is kind and was naive in the *beginning* of the story. She has matured now and will do what needs to be done but worries for her friend. My main problem is that she goes off alone to a character struggling to control the demon lord. Already that's a pretty fucking dumb decision all things considered. Not only does she not think twice of the ramifications of doing so. But she also basically puts herself at the mercy of the demon king cause alone he could've easily killed her. And then gets off pretty easy in terms of blame. You can explain away why she gave the sacred stone away. I understood, i didnt agree and i don't have to agree subjectively. But holy shit Eirika did lose a bunch of brain cells in the process of making that bad decision. It does legit feel like they made her dumber to make this scene work. Also it isn't misogynistic to not like a character's decision bruh. If this was her brother i would've said the same shit if not give him even more shit for it. It's not called out because she's a woman, it's called out because she's making a bad decision and is a woman. And this said bad decision put her friends, her kingdom and the fucking *world* in jeopardy.
If Erika brought Seth or anyone else along the Demon King would accurse her of not having faith in Lyon. Its like bringing a weapon to a hostage negotiation. Once the trust is broken it cannot be regained. Erika made the right decision by going alone.
This scene makes a lot of sense contrasting the way Lyon acts between the two paths, he manipulates Eirika why he doesn't do the same for Ephraim. Victims react differently to abuse and abusers find the most effective way to manipulate their victims. This hate she gets always reeked of misogyny and victim blaming to me.
hey guys isnt it really weird how eirika and lyn and celica and micaiah and edelgard get hated by the fanbase in like a completely disproportionate manner i wonder why its specifically these characters huh what might be the common thread here i wonder
HONESTLY!!!!! i will literally never forgive the fanbase for how they treated edelgard vs how they treated dimitri, and for how they treat every other female character consistently, it annoys me so much
It's also funny how this doesn't apply to Robin/Corrin/Byleth/Alear at all, even though they can be women as well. But we all know that these people simply pretend like that option doesn't exist, so suddenly there's no problem with them...
@@skeletonwar4445 to be fair, I've seen a lot of Corrin hate from the fandom (calling them annoying, whiny, stupid, righteous, etc), but I think that mostly stems from general fates hate.
@@moccaroon Oh yeah, all the avatars (besides Robin, for the most part) get a lot of hate, but that's more in general towards their "custom protag"-ness, rather than putting every decision they make under a microscope to find a reason to call them a hysteric bitch.
With Edelgard she literally works with (((Those That Slither))) and starts an insurrection and is responsible for MANY MANY deaths. I don't care what your reasons or excuses are,after a certain kill count in a war YOU started,maybe YOU are the bad guy?
Maybe they could've made more evident she had reasons to trust him. Like, Celica at least threw herself to save Alm's army and him, not just "trust purple guy". So, like, have her thinking about it in inner dialogue or something.
Or maybe, or maybe the decision was just fucking stupid-- have you thought about that. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it isn't stupid. Erica did a very dumb thing; she chose to reject a very obvious lesson because she was being navie. Not empathy-- naivety. At that point in the game, she knew the truth behind Lyon, behind the war, and behind Grado, but she chose to ignore it. What Erica route is, mainly her facing the reality of every fantasy she had about the world, and her last fantasy was Lyon. She had to get her face shoved into her failure before she finally grows up and stop being naive. It is a flaw to not like about her, because that is one of the points of a character flaw-- to not like it. Keep somethings in Reddit. The rest of us, with working brains, are much better without you.
They love when the lord is with a quite almost perfect damsel in distress like Lilina, Ninian or Deirdre but they hate when the girl is clumsy flawed, save the guy and end up getting a bit more confident at the end (Sumia) so I don't know what to think
@@eleonorepb4565 there's Hector/Lyn, Ephraim/L'Rachel, Chrom/Robin, Robin/Lucina and Byleth/Edelgard. 5 very popular ships between a main lord and a confident, outspoken, flawed woman. If the quiet damsel ship was as popular as you say, then Ike/Elincia would have been a thing.
@@derrickmarsh6136 I already saw fanfictions that change Robin and Lucina to make them more dependent. Ike/Elincina used to be popular but the sequel made clear that it had bo chance to happen. Edelgard/Byleth is mainly a yuri ship and don't follow the same rules, and it include an avatar. Also Hector/Lyn may be an exeption because both are lords and even then we have many people who ship Florina/Hector and who turn Florina into the typical damsel in distress
@@eleonorepb4565 the damsel in distress is one of the oldest stories there is, and it has stood the test of time for a reason, and that reason is definitely not misogyny. So no, I don't think the d.i.d ship is over represented at all. Yaoi/Yuri ships however, are absolutely over represented within the FE community, especially among newer games. Hence the second part of my original comment, that the community it too progressive.
Even after this video I still really don't like this scene. Eirika already knows Lyon controlled by the Demon King from the literal LAST chapter. So it doesn’t make sense for her to do that. Also L’arachel speaks to her about not giving it to Lyon and that there’s no way to cure him. Even though L’arachel says “oh one person has been cured”, she also states that Lyon is so far gone it wouldn’ matter. Eirika completely disregards this and it pisses me off because she already has the knowledge that Lyon is controlled. It comes off as Eirika going from completely naive at the start, to the same exact level of naivety at the end. Especially with her other friends and brother speaking to her. It’s frustrating because people constantly defend this scene as something she would do, which I guess people can debate, but the way it’s solved just acts like “oh I literally made a world ending mistake but it’s okay!”. It’s bad writing. Also people compare her to Celica which is completely different. Celica isn’t making a world ending decision or acting naive. She’s sacrificing herself to protect her friends from Duma, who has already hurt them. Celica’s plot works way better because the weight of her decisions reflects properly on the situation around her, compared to Eirika learning absolutely nothing about the world around her or listening to the people she already trusts.
I don't care too much about Sacred Stones or Eirika either way, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But your arguments are flimsy at best. The fact it is possible to find a reason for a character's action if you think deeply does make the character well-written. Hints in seldom lines of dialogue spread across a few chapters that justify her action or the scene does not mean it was well setup. You provide no evidence the the scene ws properly built up. Likewise the fact a theme can be find does not make the theme well-written, well introduced or anything. The video doesn't really prove much. 13:10 poisoning the well does not help your case. Seems like a random accusation to throw around, but I guess your argumentation in this video already showed logic is not your forte.
Fire Emblem fans when the emotionally motivated character makes a decision based on their emotions: 😡
honestly this is fiction consumers in general lmao
Based Eirika defender, this scene has always made so much sense to me despite people clowning on it so much
I really do think Eirika had the nightmarish thought of "if I dont give my best friend the stone he will die knowing that I betrayed him at the very end and didnt believe in his ability to change anything", which in some ways is worse than trying (giving him the stone) and failing knowing that she gave it a shot
When I played Sacred Stones, I found Eirika incredibly kind, perhaps the kindest person in any games I played before. So it made perfect sense to me that she gave the stone to Lion. I would be shocked if she DIDN'T give the stone.
If we wanted to keep up the recent video trend of 'similar but different' things in Fire Emblem, we should've paired this with the equally controversial decision made by Celica, and how both aren't as bad as many say
The problem with that is less anything Celica actually does and more the whole, Duma faithful's designs being far too "generic evil cultist" when they really just need to be misguided and living in the past instead for the plot they're actually trying to tell.
@@effluxi9587 That is very true. In Valentia they're an established religion that she may already be aware of and not have as much reason to doubt the methods of, while to the player, we've already seen this 11 times across all forms of media
Eh, Celica's scene is a LOT worse. Her entire game is her making pretty dumb choices as the game is pretty anti-god and the game tries to use her to show the believers side and it doesn't balance that at all. But also Gaiden's story is pretty bad in general.
@@nahte123456Celica actually does not get tricked by Jedah in Gaiden, it is exclusive to the remake. In Gaiden, she just gets to Duma before Alm and he has to come and help her before it's too late, I think Gaiden's story was pretty good considering what could be made in 1992 because of the hardware.
@@effluxi9587 I agree, it makes sense that Celica sacrifices her soul out of her own volition, since she is as religious as the duma faithful and wants to prevent further bloodshed, however, just like you said, the duma faithful are so outright evil and manipulative the whole faith aspect of the decision becomes a huge stretch.
I only recently got around to playing sacred stones myself (last year) and I had always heard about eirika's "stupid decision" thing- in a similar vein to "Celica do stupid thing" from SoV.
I had already played SoV and and experienced Celica's moment(tm) which I definitely understand that people reacted that way to (it doesn't feel satisfying, and the game doesn't clearly show why she would do this, at least in my opinion)
and since the two moments were often mentioned together I assumed they would be similar, but when I actually reached the moment in FE8 I thought "why do people act like this is a dumb and naive girl ruins story moment? Eirika being hopeful and optimistic (at least regarding Lyon) is so very in character I would be more shocked if she DIDN'T risk the stone for Lyon to potentially save himself and she believes to be in control at the time."
I actually really liked that moment, and I wouldn't even consider it "naivety" as many did. And while I did already know (from both being spoiled on the game and fantasy media tropes) that it wouldn't go well, and that lyon could never be saved, it was easy to understand Eirika's thoughts, because I do like lyon too, and would have hoped he could be saved.
Yes, also majority of players would also take the same decision if faced with something remotely similar with a loved one, ie, having to give hand of something valuable to save said loved one's life.
Eirika is such a good lord character, I love how her defining qualities are seeing the best in everyone, having faith that people can be saved or changed for the better, and that she has to be the change she wants.
The prologue alone shows that she hasn't fought seriously before, and over time we learn she only started training a few years ago; she's out of her depth completely, yet she raises a small platoon to rescue her brother, someone she clearly sees as better than her in every way. She charges in to danger, and is pretty instrumental to Ephraim escaping Renvall.
Eirikas route is so heartfelt and story driven, I love it, especially this scene. She actually grows as a person, she learns and gets stronger, it's so cool
I swear, every time we get scenes like these, the character who does the "stupid decision" gets shat on constantly, even in cases where it makes perfect sense for said character to make said decision... Which is 9/10 the case with these scenes, including this one
Reminds me of one scene in Yggdra Union where titular character charges alone in an attempt to kill a retreating blazing emperor. People shit on Yggdra for being reckless. When it was estabilished that she harbor an insane hatred for said blazing emperor for killing her family and ravaging her kingdom, and wants nothing more than rip his head and hang in the gates of Paltina.
@@mauricesteel4995 Isn't that the plot of Azure Moon from Three Houses?
@@BardockSkywalker the head ripping was an allusion, but Yggdra Union is a princess fighting a flame themed emperor for her homeland. and yes, said Emperor exploits her anger to get the best of her, just like how Dimitri dies offscreen in one of the Three Houses routes. its a very cool game, and plays in a very unique way compared to other SRPGs, it was released recently on STEAM, but thats a very old GBA game originally.
@@mauricesteel4995 Oh, cool. I'll take a look if i ever get the chance, thanks
Right? I always thought this was totally realistic. How many times have we extended kindness or forgiveness to those who, in the end, didn't deserve it and betrayed us? I found this scene very relatable.
I think one of the funnier parts of this whole thing is that I have literally never heard a word spoken about the Ephraim version of this scene. So when I went Ephraim mode, I saw it completely blind which I didn't expect.
SPOILERS BELOW
The Demon King like paralyses Ephraim, takes the stone, and crushes it.
I still think its funny how not a soul talks about the Ephraim mode scene
Spoilers for the future, but this was originally going to be a two parter where I talked about both scenes, but I couldnt think of how to do it in a way that didnt feel like I was interrupting myself to talk about the other, so I split it into two videos. Ephraim's part will come soon!
@@femspaint2911 Oh cool! I'll be there for that!
@@femspaint2911 ah I see, so this *was* supposed to keep up the trend of the dichotomy of things in FE.
I forgot the video but someone mentioned why Lyon was his favorite antagonist and praised the Ephraim route (also trashing the Erika one)
@user-pg7iy8jz3n I saw that video too. Enjoyed it and the analysis from the Ephraim route, but you just looking at one side of coin. And the other side isn't bad just because you don't like the interpretation of this antagonist.
I dont think enough FE Fans think in character perspective as much as they should, there are some that do, but then fail to consider multiple perspectives (3H Discourse)
I just want to say thank you for at least a passing reference to the laughing scene from Final Fantasy X.
Tidus is one of my fav FF characters and he has a lot of good scenes, he's sadly been labeled as funny laugh man when he's more than that AND that laugh scene is really good
@@femspaint2911 its a bit like Nishikiyama from Yakuza just becoming the "10 years in the joint guy"
well, a bit but not really at the same time
@femspaint2911 everyone says "oh no that scene has cringe voice acting, they sound bad" and I'm like, it's SUPPOSED to sound bad, they're forcing themselves to laugh at nothing until they actually start laughing for real.
Posted in a reply, but I'll post in general, too:
Ephraim's story was always much more about themes of aggression/vengeance/betrayal/leadership/determination and so on (sort of a traditional masculine tale of warriors and generals -- hell he even marches to the capital to fight the emperor), harder, and about the core gameplay, whereas Eirika's felt more like a developed story about compassion/empathy/camaraderie, coming to terms with death, and maybe even dealing with the point that she's naive and generally passive in comparison with her assertive brother, though the route is less difficult.
The stories were designed to represent the characters themselves and hence why Lyon behaves differently with each hero -- violent and cruel against Ephraim and emotionally manipulative against Eirika (this obviously wouldn't have worked against Ephraim).
By the way, the different music tracks definitely help represent this with Ephraim's track being "Determination" and Erika's "Rise Above."
I lovr the way the Sacred Stones shows and represents the ups and downs of masculinity and femininity through Ephraim and Eirika in their respective routes and how the in-betweener; Lyon treats both
I'm 100% sure that if Eirika refuses to give Lyon the stone, Formortiis would just petrify Eirika the same as he did to Ephraim. Basically the entire plot of this scene is that the Renais stone will get crushed no matter who the holder was, nothing changes. Eirika shouldn't be degraded for falling for it.
perhaps the great evil suffering-loving demon king played out each scenario in such a way that he knew would hurt each lord the most. ephraim, the man of action and strength, is left powerless as he watches a tragedy happen in front of his eyes. eirika, kind and trusting, is betrayed by the image of her friend, whom she thought she was helping.
Very nice and concise explanation to a complex subject. I’ve always thought of it to myself as “when your best friend asks you to help him save his life, you’re gonna help him, even at great risk.”
I honestly never thought that anyone making fun of this was serious. This is the most in character and drsmatic moment Erika gets in the story, she is defined by her kind heart, learning swordplay by necessity and nothing else. Her trusting her _lifelong friend_ about being possesed WICH IS TRUE, is such a powerfull moment and great showing of her tragic flaw that anyone who doesnt get it has no idea about writing.
In contrast, Ephraim's scene is bullshit. Getting mind controled or some crap to hand the stone by force? So shitty and contrived. Lyon shouldve been doing that all the time!
if enough people joke about something untrue, some may be led to believe its true even if the intention was just to be playful.
and this is why i despise the "Racist Roy" meme, that turns the one guy fighting for harmony between dragons and humans into "Racist man, because Human Virtue skill LOL"
every lie is potentially harmful, even the most seemengly innocuous one can have unpredictable and unintended consequences.
@@mauricesteel4995 lol, whenever I think of the racist Roy meme it reminds me of the racist Deku meme from Jump force
Ephraim wasn’t mind controlled, but paralysed/„stoned“. He was unable to move and Lyon pilfered the stone with minimal resistance.
Only makes the whole thing slightly less bad. After all Stone is rather inaccurate so he can’t use that all the time. However, it’s a monster skill and Lyon shouldn’t be able to use it at all.
@@TheGosgosh The Demon King using a monster skill, and better than his minions, makes perfect sense, however.
Hate to say it, but I've been guilty of that first paragraph myself. One of the reasons why I replay games like this and pay much better attention to the storyline/characters nowadays. I still need to improve on empathizing with characters and realizing why they make decisions like that.
Ppl are just mad that their aversge fe protagonist isnt a avatar with a cardboard personality and that it acts like an actual human with feelings
something i feel goes understated here is the impact of the horrors of war on eirika. she's had to spend untold days marching across magvel, watching her friends, family, and countrymen all die. even further, it's not just a war of the cruelty of man, but the incomprehensible literal monsters appearing before her. after all this, her mind would be absolutely broken. whose wouldn't?
and at this moment, her childhood friend appears before her, promising the thing she yearns for the most: a return to normalcy. the thought of even a chance at fixing something amidst the vast suffering is enough to get someone to act in desperation. a sacred artifact feels like nothing but a plain rock, well worth giving up to heal a loved one.
I think people miss the L'Arachel moment where it's implied that there's hope. It's not a very memorable moment and they only briefly touch upon it in exactly one part of the game. There are issues with how the Eirika scene plays out. I think it's overblown how bad the scene is, but I also think it's really reductive to minimize the issue under the vague umbrella of misogyny.
Yep. And ironically, Eirika is one of the most feminine characters in Fire Emblem, flawed because of it, and it still an extremely strong character... In fact, I'd say it's BECAUSE of her femininity and flaws that she is strong. We don't get to see that anymore in Hollywood due to the parade of men in female skin suits...
men in female skinsuits is more accurate than I'd like to acknowledge
It's always annoyed me when people shit on characters for making flawed decisions based on human emotions and congnitive biases. That's the core of, among other things, the Illiad and the Odyssey for Athena's sake!
Pretty sure Lyon was pretty much gone and in the darkness once he started showing up in the cutscenes, after beating him in final chapter it could be his soul being released and sharing some final words, idk, but I'm of the opinion that Lyon's 'aughs' and 'oooos' and him trying to actually get control back while the Demon King is acting like him.
It's just a scene about Eirika getting tricked by the Demon King, and any previous sighting of Lyon can be attributed to the Demon King using Lyon's memories to act like him, "There are memories of you in this flesh I wear.". The biggest gripe I have with this scene, is the fact that everyone moves on afterwards, nobody asks Eirika why she would just give him the stone, nobody is angry or feels hopeless about the Stone of Rausten being their last bastion of hope.
Eirika and Ephraim each have a weakness that is exploited in that scene, Eirika is too trusting, and Ephraim too rash, the Demon King exploits their emotions and it's done in a way that's fine, it's just that after the stone is broken and the Demon King leaves, the scene just ends abruptly, everyone catches up, Ephraim consoles Eirika or reassures her that he's fine, then it hard cuts to "Well we can't go down the cliff the Demon King went down, oh well, on to Rausten."
Nothing about the scene afterwards is focused on the Sacred Stone of Renais being gone, it's not about Eirika making a mistake, it's all about Lyon never being with them since before the invasion, and Eirika is grieving over that fact.
The only character development with Eirika from this scene is when in the next chapter L'Arachel asks her what Lyon would want her to do, which leads her to the conclusion to defeat the Demon King so that Lyon's soul could rest.
The mistake Eirika makes does not make her grow as a character, it's learning that Lyon is forever gone.
The reasons for Eirika giving the stone are fine but the catalyst for Eirika realizing that her friend is gone being the destruction of an Anti-Satan McGuffin, as well as the lack of accountability she faces for that, makes the scene worse
In my mind Eirika suffers from time of release. 'Nuance' games weren't as big a thing and at least in my view FE story analysis was pretty bad up until 3Hs. Meaning she gets hit by 1- guys that hate on female characters, 2-people that don't pay attention and just think the scene is dumb, 3-people not going to think about the scene, and 4-an echo chamber of the above.
Most of the time I hear people playing SS recently or discussing it in depth it's not that hated of a scene, at least from what I've experienced. It's much more older fans from that time or people that haven't actually played the game I see insult it.
I'm a pretty rash person. If the girl I liked was possessed by an ancient evil demon and I was given a chance-- only a slight chance-- to save her, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I probably wouldn't put much thought into it.
Eirika giving Lyon the Sacred Stone is stupid, yes. But it's also good writing for characters to make stupid decisions. Makes them feel more like people and less like video game characters.
My brother and I were both confused to learn that this scene was controversial. It is really quite a good scene, and conveys Eirika's genuine wish that Lyon could be saved.
Remember, the fire emblem community will bitch and moan about If so and so is a Mary Sue is not but then throw a hissy fit the moment you have a protagonist that isn't perfect and makes questionable decisions.
You're painting EVERYONE because of a few
@@elgatochurro dude there is a reason Three Houses discourse is a meme at this point
The chad Eirika gave the stone to Lyon vs the virgin Durandal incident
I never hated her for this moment and I'm not alone in not disliking her because of this scene. A friend and I both would occasionally talk about sacred stones and how much we bring up the fact that people love to dog Eirika just because of this scene....... When it's clear that barely anyone even tries to see from her perspective. Like this feels really much in character for her to do and it doesn't make her feel stupid or makes her act like a dumb dumb. She had that little bit of hope that maybe just maybe if she did something like this she could have saved her best friend. So because of that I never really faulted her for something like this at all........ Celica from echoes meanwhile is a completely different story entirely and she's arguably way worse.
This is equivalent to Peter's anger in Infinity War
I really need to replay eirika mode sometime. I sorta instantly concluded that she was boring, so I didn't put much thought into her story. You're definitely doing a good job of turning my interpretation of her around.
Ephraim's story was always much more about themes of aggression/vengeance/betrayal/leadership/determination and so on (sort of a traditional masculine tale of warriors and generals -- hell he even marches to the capital to fight the emperor), harder, and about the core gameplay, whereas Eirika's felt more like a developed story about compassion/empathy/camaraderie, coming to terms with death, and maybe even dealing with the point that she's naive and generally passive in comparison with her assertive brother, though the route is less difficult.
By the way, the different music tracks definitely help represent this with Ephraim's track being "Determination" and Erika's "Rise Above."
This was one of the most fabulous speeches I've ever heard, holy. cow. You've made my day incredible
I honestly wonder if the stone could have saved him at this moment. In the final battle the last stone straight up pulls Formortiis soul out and traps it so who could really say if it couldn't have worked here.
I'm pretty sure that at this point, Lyon was too far gone to be saved. Even removing Fomortiis from him would just kill him.
"He (Saint Latona) was built different. So Eirika thinks: 'I believe in Lyon - he's built different too!'. Yes, Lyon is built different - he's built WRONG."
10/10 quote right there lol
Never saw anything stupid the first time I played SS, and will never do: all I see is a kindhearted gal that is willing to save her best friend from an ancient devil no matter what. She's seen what he could do, so who knows - maybe the stone could break the possession.
Plus, Fomortiis knows everything about Lyon, and of course that includes the twins' weaknesses: in Eirika's route, he appears more as the Prince of Grado, making her think Lyon may still be there, and using that to trick her. As for Ephraim, he's a heroic but cocky guy that stabs before talking, so Fomo doesn't hide at all and taunts him, and that way he can get Eph picking a fight he CANNOT win.
"and not in a gay black butler kinda way" 😂
I personally adore this scene and the character development it does for both of the twins.
I don’t really interact with the “community” I guess and didn’t know people hated this scene. Lyon and Eirika are very close and she’s a very compassionate character. Of course she’s gonna want to help her dying best friend practically begging her for help. Yes, it’s a powerful Macguffin and should be handled with care but it’s also possibly the only thing she thinks could save him. Lyon has performed miracles with their own Sacred stone so maybe he can create another miracle with this one.
I think this shows the big issue with Sacred Stones’ writing. Ephraim is Big Strong Lord Man™ who walks into places and just wins battles (the man conquers a major Grado fort with three men by his side, one of whom is actively betraying him) and then evades capture by just… being awesome (at least that’s what the game implies). Most dialogue about Ephraim is how strong he is, and most of his dialogue is about being strong, getting stronger, getting OTHER people stronger, or protecting those he cares about most. Hell, his dialogue in Chapter 8 is about HIM saving Eirika, when she is the one trying to rescue him. Ephraim is SO strong that the only thing that can stop him is literal demon magic to stop him in his place; not his hubris, not a character flaw, nothing.
Eirika is much more nuanced. She’s much more sheltered than Ephraim, since she only just learned basic swordplay a couple of years before the game’s start, and knows little outside of her castle and her friends-all of Eirika’s pre-existing relationships are with other royals, or with knights who are consistently in the castle or with her brother. To say Eirika is naïve is a moot point because it is fairly obvious. Her story is about her learning about the world around her, meeting others and hearing their journeys. She uses those strengths of others to boost her own army because she recognizes her flaws. Eirika is very “my friends are my power”.
I do think the scene with her handing the stone to Lyon could have been handled much better, but it doesn’t make Eirika stupid. She is talking to her BEST FRIEND, who, up until a chapter before, has still been using the guise of sweet innocent Lyon to exploit Eirika’s natural faith in others. That trick wouldn’t work on Ephraim, because he isn’t as trusting as Eirika is.
There is a little more to Ephraim. He himself admits that he is stupid and rash, he understands that he has responsibilities as a future king but still actively evades them, it took apocalipsys to make him actually care about citizens (and not even in all endings). Tbh, his wins are one part bullshitting through, other part is intuition, so its not like game implies that he has at least fracture of planning ahead, its pretty straightforward: he can fight well but not much anything else.
The real reason she gave Satan the stone was because unlike every other FE final boss, damn Satan's got hands.
Ravager moment
I always LOVED that scene. It made me cry when I played the game as a young kid. It is significantly more compelling because eirika makes a clear mistake based on intense emotions
Think about it this way. What if it actually was Lyon, who has been shown to be able to temporarily shake the demon king and heal using the sacred stone? Even if it was a 1% chance of it really being Lyon, can you really imagine eirika letting that chance go?
I could also see Erika thinking that scared stone could have possibly reduced or dimished the demon king's hold if held by Lyon.
It may have been possible, given how Rausten's Sacred Stone alone was enough to trap Formotiis' soul. In fact, if it were to happen, I think the plot would've just skipped a few key plot points, such as getting the Rausten Sacred Twins, and Morva (Myrrh's father, I think? I don't remember the details) getting turned enemy by force. In fact, it may have led Riev to become the new host for Formotiis because then chapters 19 and 20 would have yet to happen to allow his death.
@@Not_Alanius Morva is Myrrh's adoptive daughter yeah.
@@gamercore5216 Wait hol-up, did I read the initial comment right or is there a major phrasing error-
@@Not_AlaniusI don't know your interpeation but based on your comment seems like you did. I was saying It would make sense in character if erika thought Lyon holding a scared stone would either weaken the demon king's possession of him if not free him outright.
@@gamercore5216 I was reading the immediate reply to my comment, the one confirming Morva's status as Myrrh's guardian.
I appreciate this kind of analysis. for a lot of people, it doesn't really matter the reason why someone does the wrong thing- after all, it doesn't make it any more or less wrong. But reflecting on why people do things is how we come to forgive people, and grow all around
And really, Erika doing the thing that basically all the villainous Fire Emblem Dragons say humans do over and over is really fitting for the themes of these games
People who shit on this scene are intellectually bankrupt.
Same with the Tidus laugh. They just take shit out of context and think they're really smart, even though they've entirely lost the plot and look idiotic.
Tidis is boring
glad you're getting more patrons! altho i'm gonna miss you thanking me last in the videos. it was kinda fun!
Something I never got about this discourse is the fact that if Ephraim is your chosen lord, Renais’ stone ALSO gets destroyed in the same place. The demon king is as devious as he is evil- he tortures Ephraim in that moment by making him feel powerless and watch as the stone is destroyed. He makes Eirika despair by manipulating her kindness; but if she didn’t believe him or refused to hand it over- the demon king would have taken it and destroyed it JUST as easily as with Ephraim. It was going to happen either way, and it was a great bit of characterization for Eirika for all of the reasons you spell out here. Thanks!
i think the intended effect would be less ambiguous if there was more emotional investment created by the friendship trio flashbacks
I would argue that the emotional investment was handled perfectly, as Lyon is consistently one of if not the most popular villains in the franchise. A ton of people love and care about the three of them
Eirika: (2nd) Worst lord, best friend
Anyone who says Eirika is stupid for this is forgetting that Erika is not an android governed completely by cold hard logic, human connection and empathy be damned. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people calling Eirika dumb for this would do the same thing in her place. I think I would.
Lyon is your best friend who you grew up with. Outside of your brother, he's the closest thing to family you have left because your parents are in an FE game thus are dead. You know how kind-hearted Lyon has always been and what a smart guy he was. Now he's being controlled by FE-Satan and you're desperate to free him but are told that it's hopeless.
Suddenly you find Lyon, looking how he's always looked, talking like how he always talked to you. He says he can free himself if you just give him the stone. Lyon is telling you there's a chance to save him, that everything can be right again. And he's right in front of you. It's really difficult to accept your loved one is gone when they are standing right in front of you and acting like how they always have been. Maybe somewhere logically, you know this is a bad call but won't you take the chance to save your best friend anyway? Would you be able to live with yourself if you rejected your friend here? What if Lyon was right? What if there was hope?
I feel like you would have to be some sort of Sage with a maxed out Wisdom and Confidence to make the right call here. Eirika is not stupid. She simply just could not accept her best friend was gone. Again, something that many people find hard to do even when their loved one is dead and buried. It's exponentially harder to do when their body and memories are being controlled by Satan to act exactly like them. I can't fault Erika for failing to do a task that difficult. I would also fail and 90% of FE players would fail too.
Is everyone for getting that the first stage of grief is denial. Why are people acting like they would never be tricked by a master of manipulation that has probably done tricks like this for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
Thank you for defending my best girl Eirika. Sacred stones was my first FE game on my old weird modified gba with tons of (i strongly assume) pirated games that my grandpa gifted to me. (He had no idea what absolute treasure he brought me that day and neitger did i, until i found out normal gba's dint habe over 100 games saved on the console) its dead now but man, the memories. Sacred Stones will always have a big spot in my heart. I liked it so much, it was the only game i researched about amd then found the newest installment was Awakening, been hooked on the series ever since.
I always figured that pretty much people misconstrued Erica and Ephraim story lines where is ephraim's was a story of Revenge and justice Erica was a story of love. Ephraim didn't really need to grow as a person. He was a capable Warrior who stormed the castle with three guys at the very beginning of the game time and time again Erica places her absolute trust in people only for it to be taken away from her.
It happens with Novala, who she also handed the sacred stone to. it happens with Orson, and it happens here with Lyon. Erica's undying Hope For Humanity caused her to want to believe something so much that she chose to regardless
Eirika is love
Eirika is life
The reason this discussion comes around so often is not just because it's a female protagonist (misogyny), it's because she's one of the *few* female protagonists in the franchise (misogyny again). And even 20 years later, people fail to remember that most female leads tend to be more emotional than the male leads (actually internalized sexism this time). People think this scene is stupid because they watched the same story unfold dozens of times, but fail to have empathy to understand why a human character would do that.
I never had a problem with Eirika or FE8's story, personally, but after watching a Mekkah play through of FE8 with MarkyJoe, going Ephraim's route, the latter mentioned how "Ephraim is such a frat boy", and with that I noticed how he's the real problem lord of the game. Dude is a male Mary Sue and no one bats an eye, just because it's the generic action fantasy protagonist routine. A (female) videogame character has an emotional human moment in the middle of an action fantasy story, of course people would dogpile her for acting "out of character".
Compare this scene with FE7's "Eliwood unknowingly kills Ninian". That's an emotional fantasy scene that gets everyone the first time. In Bismix's "So, I finally played FE7" skit, he drops the comedy, puts the sad cutscene music and is like "oh no, he just killed her... wait, he doesn't know? HE DOESN'T KNOW! OH MY GOD! He's putting the pieces together. Oh no, he's devastated, look at the portrait...". We, as players, know what's happening, even though the characters don't. However, since this is a common thing to happen in "hero's journey" type of story.
FE8 tried to have a more human character with Eirika, but the *humans* that played the game weren't _human enough_ to understand her in this more complex scene. Back in the day, you could call it misogyny. Nowadays, I'm calling you an illiterate with no reading comprehension or a lizardpeople with no emotions. There's a reason that I love robot characters in media, it's because they always struggle to define what being a human mean, and over the course of the story, develop emotions, bonds and love.
If only FE fans could leave their basement to experience human emotions... 😔 /s
How is this misogyny? It'd be the same discussion if it was all men lol
I meant more like: people sometimes call it just misogyny but there are also other factors at play, like the internalized sexism I mentioned. Male protagonist does male protagonist things, male audience is fine. Female protagonist does female protagonist things, male audience don't understand and complains.
In most media, the moment a close friend of the main character dies is an emotional scene that everyone loves. Like the "Eliwood killing Ninain" I've mentioned. This Eirika scene is when Lyon finally dies, in her eyes, even though he was long consumed. But most people don't understand it, and then complain about it, for many reasons, but I'm insisting that it isn't just misogyny, which is the first thing the fanbase tries to say. It's just people being dumb, and doubling down when videos like this one tries to disprove them.
Great video. I didn't know that this contraverisal scene in FE8 is peak fiction until i saw this video. I love Eirika so much.
Ots almost like "love can ruin us" is a theme in this game
funny thing is eirika is actually right, while it is mostly a fan theory heroes has given some validity to the idea that lyon was in control in eirika's route but pretended to be completely possesed, he does the same in ephraim's route so why not here as well, the reason he would do this is his feelings towards each one, he envies ephraim so he tries to surpass him by showing he is in control but he loves eirika so he plays the victim, lyon has changed but not because formortiis has taken control, he let his insecurities consume him wich led him down his dark path
honestly i never understood why people hate the erika version of this scene but are ok with ephraim's
to me eirika giving the stone made sense, she thought there was a chance she could save her friend
meanwhile, Ephraim knows full well that's the demon king, he charges at him and gets the stone stone broken like an idiot, and for some reason people gave him a pass for it
The only scene more unfairly criticized than the Eirika Handles the Stone to the Demon King is "All fell Dragons must die, but i wanted to be a good Dragon."
All I want to know is, why does her name have the extra "I" in it? I always want to say it in some weird, German accent and go "EYE-ree-ka".
Everyone else goes "Nah, fam, this is normal "ERica" name."
I feel like this name is misspelled, or nobody knows how to pronounce it, like "Lyon."
I think seeing the inverse of this in Eripham mode is what really elevates this to peak fiction for me. Lyon (Demon King?) talking about his envy and hatred to Ephraim and pulling this for Erika always felt like it really split their characters. Especially when people say that FE lords (especially the females) are all the same.
Boi o boi this going to be interesting
If you don't mind, can you do a video on why Julius and Ishtar doesn't work as you claimed.
Very true this coupled with another video I forgot that shows that Lyon was always in control. It ties it all together rather perfectly. ... in a depressing way for Eirika.
Lyon was different like Latona.
Wow I didn’t realize this was the context of this moment… never played these games but wow, seems disproportionate, this anger towards Eirika, ntm on turquoise mother
Cool video. Can you tell me what the music at 7:28 is?
This scene is actually well written. It can be interpreted as "Eirika did something stupid for the sake of the plot." However, it's not that. Anyone who understands Eirika's character (and why she's the best female JRPG protagonist of all time on a writing standpoint imho) would know that she is a flawed human being who wants to trust Lyon, and so her stupid decision was yes, stupid from our perspective along with Lyon's and the other cast members (God I miss when Fire Emblem characters felt like real people), but it makes sense for the CHARACTER, which is what's important.
Thats pretty well thought out honestly. Never really did this route because lance man was cooler, but I see your point.
Celica was much worse with the Duma cultists, and I think the mindset of those who played it have been solidified through internet arguments, more than revisiting the game itself. And I love the game to bits, so anything that puts a positive light on it reminds me of why I enjoyed it.
For a more recent apt comparison, Starlord in Infinity War had a similar moment during the Thanos duel, when he bashed the his head in, and made the team lose a winnable fight.
They did it for/because of love.
I maintain that Eirika shouldn't have trusted Lyon here because by this point in the story she already experienced:
1)being coerced into giving away the sacred stone for the lives of others, which she didn't know she had at the time. As far as she knew, she just had to trade away a ring which she was told about that its ambiguously important by Seth. Regardless of that, she performed spectacularly, not only not trusting the enemy's promise and protecting the sacred stone, but also managing to rescue the hostages from impending doom. She has shown that she isn't as naive as people might think of her, that she can tell not everyone is trustworthy, and managed to carve out a third option where both the stone and her people were protected
2)someone close to her, Orson, whom she knew as a friend and ally, exploiting her feelings for the people she loves to trick her and lure her into a trap. Trap for which she falls, because again: person she thinks of as a friend and trusts. But it's okay, it's not even (fully) her fault in the first place that they fell into a trap. It's Ephraim's tangentially for being missing behind enemy lines with no contact for so long, so when one of the people last seen with Ephraim tells her "your brother has been captured and is being held in this castle", of course she's gonna believe him. (What I want to know, *Seth* , is if you knew from the start Orson was full of it and luring you into a trap, why did you wait until you were INSIDE the castle to say anything and catch Orson in his lies, Seth? Huh, Seth?!). But it's okay, now she knows for the future that people will take advantage of her relationships to trick her
From these two experiences, when confronted with the decision to give "Lyon" the sacred stone in order to save him, Eirika has already learned the necessary lessons that would allow her to make the right choice in the moment: NOT giving away the sacred stone to the guy who tried to kill her last chapter. She should have known better, in-universe, than to simply trust "Lyon", because this is the third time something similar has happened to her.
Now granted, you make very good points about why Eirika would trust Ly "Lyon" and give him the sacred stone in the process: she's talked to Lyon before, Lyon is her childhood whom she loves and trusts and knows what he's capable of, and her conversation with L'Arachel gave her hope that Lyon could be saved. What you say makes perfect sense. .....But consider this: it's a sacred STONE. The magical plot devices *required* to defeat the demon king, of which there are only five, three of which have already been shattered and the one in Rausten of which the situation is unknown. As far as everyone knows, Renais's stone is the only one they have secured and Eirika has spent the entire game protecting it from those who would take it from her. She *knows* its importance, she *knows* the world is doomed without it and she knows better than to just give it away. It doesn't even have to be about trusting Lyon or not, but rather NOT trusting the demon king. Like you said, Lyon may or may not still be there, but she *knows* the demon king IS in there. Even if Eirika trusts that it's really Lyon who's speaking to her, how can she trust the demon king NOT to suddenly take over once she's handed over the stone? And taking from the previously mentioned spider incident, where Eirika managed to protect both the stone and the civilians, she could ask Lyon to lay down his arms and surrender to them, after which they'll be keeping watch on him, but ALSO tell them everything about the stone and how to use it so work together towards studying the stone and saving Lyon. Then events play out similarly to those in Ephraim's route: "Lyon" eventually drops the facade, places a barrier between him and Eirika, takes the stone and smashes it, then leaves before reinforcements arrive. That way, the story proceeds as normal, only this time Eirika isn't made to look worse for wear by ignoring half the stuff that's been happening to her throughout the game
3:54 Maybe he teleported to drop the stone into the lava?
Not even a minute in, but yes! Justice for Best Girl!
Lyon was built different; he was built wrong
Good arguments, but bad bases and growths
Also Swordlocked too
Eirika's growths are pretty darn good for FE8(They're better or equal to Franz's growths in everything other than HP, where she only loses by 10%). Her bases, swordlock and promotion lock until the lategame are the things that hold her back as a unit.
I dont know why people need to make up story reasons to dislike Eirika, her stats are a good enough reason already
Jokes aside, emotionally driven characters go hard it sucks people have 0 media literacy
Comment to support the upvote algorithm
Peak cinema. 🖐😎✋
I think everyone is mad at this scene for the exact reasons you said.
But what bothers ME personally is that. She is a princess, she almost sacrificed mankind's hope (her kingdoms inhabitants as well) for 1 man.
Say what you will about this scene. But this romantic yet dishopeful scene is very special. Once you realize that for her, every life is worth the world to her and that Lyon was implied to be Eirika's crush.
That said this noble made a choice that cost the future of mankind (it was solved but if it's solved does it automatically make the person free of blame?).
At this point you gotta ask. If a person of nobility, who's in charge of thousands of lives, has the choice to choose between 1 person VS the world. Is it really fine to make that choice?
Seth calls Eirika out on exactly that on their A support.
"Lady Eirika. You are a noble of Renais. The nobility should not favor one subject over another. How can they maintain their fealty if you treat one so differently?"
Eirika: ……
"You may have to forego such attachments just to defend your country."
There will be times when victory in battle demands a sacrifice."
If you cannot send your men to die, then you are not fit to rule."
@@mauricesteel4995 although the context of this support is different from this one. i am glad Seth tells her to value EVERYONE instead of just 1.
So i understand your point and all, personally i dont hate Eirika as a main character, if anything i think she's a better main character than Ephiraim. My main problem is what Eirika is at this point of the journey.
She's aware of the evils of humanity, how morally bankrupt they can be and what a region looks like *without* a sacred stone to protect it. Eirika also just recently claimed her birthright and saved her kingdom from destruction. She now understands that with Ephiraim they have a responsibility to not only their kingdom but the entire world to protect it.
Eirika is kind and was naive in the *beginning* of the story. She has matured now and will do what needs to be done but worries for her friend. My main problem is that she goes off alone to a character struggling to control the demon lord. Already that's a pretty fucking dumb decision all things considered. Not only does she not think twice of the ramifications of doing so. But she also basically puts herself at the mercy of the demon king cause alone he could've easily killed her. And then gets off pretty easy in terms of blame.
You can explain away why she gave the sacred stone away. I understood, i didnt agree and i don't have to agree subjectively. But holy shit Eirika did lose a bunch of brain cells in the process of making that bad decision. It does legit feel like they made her dumber to make this scene work. Also it isn't misogynistic to not like a character's decision bruh. If this was her brother i would've said the same shit if not give him even more shit for it. It's not called out because she's a woman, it's called out because she's making a bad decision and is a woman. And this said bad decision put her friends, her kingdom and the fucking *world* in jeopardy.
If Erika brought Seth or anyone else along the Demon King would accurse her of not having faith in Lyon. Its like bringing a weapon to a hostage negotiation. Once the trust is broken it cannot be regained. Erika made the right decision by going alone.
I'm here to like comment and subscribe in order to maintain the agenda
Good media literacy lesson. ;)
This scene makes a lot of sense contrasting the way Lyon acts between the two paths, he manipulates Eirika why he doesn't do the same for Ephraim. Victims react differently to abuse and abusers find the most effective way to manipulate their victims.
This hate she gets always reeked of misogyny and victim blaming to me.
hey guys isnt it really weird how eirika and lyn and celica and micaiah and edelgard get hated by the fanbase in like a completely disproportionate manner i wonder why its specifically these characters huh what might be the common thread here i wonder
HONESTLY!!!!! i will literally never forgive the fanbase for how they treated edelgard vs how they treated dimitri, and for how they treat every other female character consistently, it annoys me so much
It's also funny how this doesn't apply to Robin/Corrin/Byleth/Alear at all, even though they can be women as well.
But we all know that these people simply pretend like that option doesn't exist, so suddenly there's no problem with them...
@@skeletonwar4445 to be fair, I've seen a lot of Corrin hate from the fandom (calling them annoying, whiny, stupid, righteous, etc), but I think that mostly stems from general fates hate.
@@moccaroon Oh yeah, all the avatars (besides Robin, for the most part) get a lot of hate, but that's more in general towards their "custom protag"-ness, rather than putting every decision they make under a microscope to find a reason to call them a hysteric bitch.
With Edelgard she literally works with (((Those That Slither))) and starts an insurrection and is responsible for MANY MANY deaths. I don't care what your reasons or excuses are,after a certain kill count in a war YOU started,maybe YOU are the bad guy?
Lyons built right loves cringe
Maybe they could've made more evident she had reasons to trust him.
Like, Celica at least threw herself to save Alm's army and him, not just "trust purple guy".
So, like, have her thinking about it in inner dialogue or something.
Abundant racism on display here, Jedah is clearly blue
@@runaway74 Jedah is not the man behind the slaughter
@@runaway74 the blatant disregard for people with color blindness
@@marcoasturias8520 the blatant disregard for the overtly comedic tone in my comment in favor of trying to twist this into something it's not
@runaway74 the blatant disregard for the overtly comedic tone of my comment in favor of trying to twist this into something it's not
You speaking slow for the rest of the community to understand you?
Because you might be speaking too fast for them still lmao
Or maybe, or maybe the decision was just fucking stupid-- have you thought about that. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it isn't stupid. Erica did a very dumb thing; she chose to reject a very obvious lesson because she was being navie.
Not empathy-- naivety.
At that point in the game, she knew the truth behind Lyon, behind the war, and behind Grado, but she chose to ignore it.
What Erica route is, mainly her facing the reality of every fantasy she had about the world, and her last fantasy was Lyon. She had to get her face shoved into her failure before she finally grows up and stop being naive.
It is a flaw to not like about her, because that is one of the points of a character flaw-- to not like it.
Keep somethings in Reddit. The rest of us, with working brains, are much better without you.
Comparing Tate to Satan was hilarious... UwU I love it.
Does Satan have a Bugatti?
@@ZX-Gear yes
You think the FE fandom has a misogyny problem? If anything, the community is entirely too progressive.
They love when the lord is with a quite almost perfect damsel in distress like Lilina, Ninian or Deirdre but they hate when the girl is clumsy flawed, save the guy and end up getting a bit more confident at the end (Sumia) so I don't know what to think
@@eleonorepb4565 there's Hector/Lyn, Ephraim/L'Rachel, Chrom/Robin, Robin/Lucina and Byleth/Edelgard. 5 very popular ships between a main lord and a confident, outspoken, flawed woman. If the quiet damsel ship was as popular as you say, then Ike/Elincia would have been a thing.
@@derrickmarsh6136 I already saw fanfictions that change Robin and Lucina to make them more dependent. Ike/Elincina used to be popular but the sequel made clear that it had bo chance to happen. Edelgard/Byleth is mainly a yuri ship and don't follow the same rules, and it include an avatar. Also Hector/Lyn may be an exeption because both are lords and even then we have many people who ship Florina/Hector and who turn Florina into the typical damsel in distress
@@eleonorepb4565 the damsel in distress is one of the oldest stories there is, and it has stood the test of time for a reason, and that reason is definitely not misogyny. So no, I don't think the d.i.d ship is over represented at all. Yaoi/Yuri ships however, are absolutely over represented within the FE community, especially among newer games. Hence the second part of my original comment, that the community it too progressive.
@@derrickmarsh6136 I don't think they are. There is nothing problematic about same sex ships its a ship like any other ship.
bro really said that one line of unique dialogue in 3h was a scene
I assume he's referring to the "King of Delusion" scene that is after that.
@@valtinryu8147 never seen controversy around that one, it’s amazing. they specifically mentioned in the video the thing about reconquering
Even after this video I still really don't like this scene. Eirika already knows Lyon controlled by the Demon King from the literal LAST chapter. So it doesn’t make sense for her to do that. Also L’arachel speaks to her about not giving it to Lyon and that there’s no way to cure him. Even though L’arachel says “oh one person has been cured”, she also states that Lyon is so far gone it wouldn’ matter. Eirika completely disregards this and it pisses me off because she already has the knowledge that Lyon is controlled. It comes off as Eirika going from completely naive at the start, to the same exact level of naivety at the end. Especially with her other friends and brother speaking to her. It’s frustrating because people constantly defend this scene as something she would do, which I guess people can debate, but the way it’s solved just acts like “oh I literally made a world ending mistake but it’s okay!”. It’s bad writing. Also people compare her to Celica which is completely different. Celica isn’t making a world ending decision or acting naive. She’s sacrificing herself to protect her friends from Duma, who has already hurt them. Celica’s plot works way better because the weight of her decisions reflects properly on the situation around her, compared to Eirika learning absolutely nothing about the world around her or listening to the people she already trusts.
I don't care too much about Sacred Stones or Eirika either way, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But your arguments are flimsy at best. The fact it is possible to find a reason for a character's action if you think deeply does make the character well-written. Hints in seldom lines of dialogue spread across a few chapters that justify her action or the scene does not mean it was well setup. You provide no evidence the the scene ws properly built up.
Likewise the fact a theme can be find does not make the theme well-written, well introduced or anything. The video doesn't really prove much. 13:10 poisoning the well does not help your case. Seems like a random accusation to throw around, but I guess your argumentation in this video already showed logic is not your forte.