Ive heard this, but I've also heard there is some funny business with streaming rights, so if Nintendo want they can cut all streaming of any of there IPs
There's no legal grey area around roms, either. Downloading them is illegal, but there's an explicit exception to the dmca for dumping games from hardware considered obsolete, which the gamecube would obviously fall under.
@@cairnsaiden that's correct. Nintendo doesn't have muchh basis to prevent people from modding, emulating, or hosting melee/PM tournaments but they can just block all the streaming and video rights from any of their IPs. So even if a TO tries to run a P+ side event without streaming it, Nintendo has legal basis to cuck the entire event if they feel like it.
I stopped buying their shlock. They treat their fans like suckers. After learning how they tried to control retailers in the 1980s and through all their nonsense lately.. they have exhibited anti-consumer behavior at every opportunity. So many choices how to spend my entertainment budget.. vote for good companies with good products with your dollars.
It's somehow worse than EA. And remember, EA tried to bribe the mods of the star wars subreddit after the "pride and accomplishment" comment, aka the most disliked post/comment in reddit history.
As a frequent Splatoon 2 player, I don't think that any of us who actually care about the competitive scene wouldn't have done this. We got our tournament even if Nintendo tried to stop us from getting it, we supported a fellow competitive scene, and I myself would support a similar cause in an instant. We were getting special treatment from Nintendo, they were promoting Splatoon as their premiere competitive scene, and there was no reason the Smash scene shouldn't get similar treatment, so we used our spotlight to our advantage, and to some extent, I'd say it worked. Considering the Splatoon community as a whole, I think it's safe to say we'll be sticking with the Smash community for the long haul.
@@MumblyJumbles let's be honest that's not happening. It would be nice for them to have some competition but just one reason it won't is family's and kids. I imagine parents are far more likely to buy a switch something they know has family friendly games than a steam deck. Not to mention it's nintendos exclusives that really carry it and don't tell me about emulation since that's not perfect and there are many people like said family's wont try or won't bother to try to emulate games. I'm interested to see how the steam deck turns out but honestly even if it's a big success I don't think it would really effect the switch or it's sales all that much.
Shoutouts to the other mods that kept ProjectM alive until (and even after) Project+ was announced. Cobalt Legacy, LegacyTE, and more (and more to come, I’m sure) - every individual modder had a helping hand in keeping what they love alive and going strong from the shadows, and for that I couldn’t be more proud to be a part of it 💙
@@dannyboots Actually they were fine with those. They just wanted their name changed because they used “Joy-cons” in the name. Also there was some controversy behind the guy making them. I forgot exactly what happened but I think he took some of the money for himself.
Pretty bummed that this video didn't bother to mention the fact that the brawl, PM, and 64 communities community banded together to donate towards melee for Evo 2013 instead of splitting the money on their own games.
Honestly I forgot about this until you mentioned it. Easy to see that Melee had the best chance of previous smash titles actually making it, but such a relief that gamers joined together for the recognition they all felt entitled to and managed to strong-arm Nintendo into submission.
A forgotten example of Nintendo’s tyranny is Mario Royale. Released in summer 2019, it was DMCA’d by Nintendo out of existence. A year later, Mario 35 is released (which, by the way, Nintendo took off their servers). Eerily similar to the story of AM2R and no one seems to recognize that this happened.
@@Eichro Probably not, but it is scarily easy for a megacorporation to legally attack a poor individual who they know can't possibly have the money to rightfully fight back
@@Eichro A DMCA is a legal notice, basically giving intent to sue if certain demands are not met. It's SUPPOSED TO only be used in situations where copyrights are being infringed, but there's literally nothing stopping a company from dumping a DMCA notice on anybody for any reason. There's also absolutely nothing stopping somebody from outright ignoring or refusing to comply with a DMCA notice, with the caveat that the failure to comply with the DMCA could be used in a legal case against the receiver of the DMCA as evidence that they had been warned about the infringement prior to being sued. DMCAs are blown way out of proportion by companies like Twitch or UA-cam that blindly comply with them 100% of the time. But there's nothing stopping a singular person from ignoring it and continuing to publish their work. The caveat is that Nintendo is insanely litigious and will drag people through the court system, regardless of how strong of a case they actually have, and try to bankrupt people to get their way. Incidentally, Nintendo also has a fairly shit track record of succeeding in court cases. If you can put up the capital to withstand Nintendo's legal barrage, there's a fairly strong chance that you can win the case. In short- Just use Sonic characters instead. SEGA doesn't give a shit and has made a firm stance that they, for the most part, have no intention of going after fans making fan-made works of their IPs.
@@darkfoxfurre Hmm, check with recent news, SEGA has come after some of the Sonic creators recently with DMCAs, specifically in the music scene. They might be having a change of tone on the horizon. Hopefully not, it's really the only thing Sonic has going for it since they can't seem to put out an unbroken game.
Nintendo won't change because they are rewarded for their efforts. People can say all the things they want, but it doesn't matter if we keep buying it anyway. The absolute truth is that the only way to hurt a company is through their revenue. Revenue is a reason why F-Zero is a dead franchise, only barely living on through Mario Kart. Revenue is a reason why there were four "New" Super Mario games. Revenue is the reason why Pokemon never seems to take a break and has to keep the Pokegears churning. Revenue is a reason why Zelda "went back to its roots" with Breath of the Wild. Revenue is the reason why Fire Emblem is alive again when it was near its death with Awakening. It's not enough for you to stop rewarding them when they do things that displease the fans. You have to convince a whole lotta people to do the same too, which is really hard because people just wanna consume.
Well, that happens all the time. Legality is just an instrument for those who have the most bucks. It's an illusion; hence it's quite common for it to go against morality and legitimacy.
The most infuriating thing is that in a lot of these cases, they are NOT within their legal right to shut these things down, many of the cease and desists fall under clear Fair Use doctrine and given a good judge Nintendo would lose the lawsuit. But they're just a massive wealthy corporation that can afford to draw out lawsuits arbitrarily long and none of the fan communities have the resources to fight it.
People who set their morals over what is or is not legal are usually the most immoral and grossest people alive. (Example: 'well *technically* its not illegal to mess around with a 14 year old in some places so it's fine'. Well, Cuba has no law against animal abuse so it's fine) Like bro.. Lmao
@@Nukestarmaster They have more legal leverage than you have considered. Fair Use is generally interpreted very narrowly by the courts, and you should look at the actual wording. As for them shutting down tournaments, the reason they can do this is because these are broadcast events, and you don't actually have the rights to broadcast the gameplay of a game, regardless that you own and play it legally, though i expect this to either get challenged and change eventually, or become monetised at some sort of tenable fixed rate. Do they have to be such arseholes? Well SEGA, Valve and others demonstrate that they don't, there is no hard reason for them to. And indeed, these seem to benefit from fan creativity nicely. This is also quite unusual for a company coming from a country with a strong doujin-shi culture.
I wouldn't give SEGA too much credit for their handling of Sonic Mania, though. In 2011 SEGA had the Streets of Rage Remake, a fan release, pulled from the internet via a cease and desist. Note that Streets of Rage 3 came out in 1994, and Streets of Rage 4 came out in 2020. SEGA was doing nothing with the franchise at the time of the fan game releasing, but that didn't stop them shutting down a fan game to 'protect their intellectual property'. The fan had been working on the remake for 8 years, only for it to be shut down by a legal team. SEGA could have bought the game and released it themself for easy money, they were doing nothing with the francchise, but they did just as Nintendo are known to do.
@@ItsCenrryTH I couldn't find any info on SEGA officially changing their mind about it, although while the game was in development the fans did contact SEGA and it seemed fine at the time. They obviously then spent years making it, only to be sent a cease and desist after they released it, which must have been crushing for them. Very poorly handled overall by SEGA, and very similar to how Nintendo are known to handle things.
I don't think SEGA has a consistent policy, rather a number of different forces within the company pulling it into different directions. But when they don't go against fan projects, that's a demonstration that things CAN be handled differently, that there is no hard reason for a company to do that.
Let us also remember that time they copyright striked and even shut down a bunch of YT channels in 2012 that had even just a smidge of Shining Force related content, just so they could boost search results for their new Shinin Ark game.
@@JonSmith-hk1bq wanting a billion dollar company to stop abusing unethical copyright laws to strong-arm community driven movements is not “toxic” get your head out of reggie’s ass.
@@yarc9 how can they make profit from a game that they no longer sell/distribute/etc lol. i could be wrong, but if they wanted to profit off of all of this im pretty sure they could support the tournaments and make a deal with the TOs where they get a cut of the money that was made. unfortunately, all nintendo cares about is censorship via threatening legal action and abusing copyright laws. a shame nintendo doesnt care about its fans.
Nintendo is like that Uncle nobody in the family wants at a holiday get together but has to be there because they are “family.” So instead you cancel those get togethers and do smaller, more fun and specific parties. And if Uncle Nintendo finds out they start laying out threats when they weren’t invited. So you have to invite them to some of the bigger holiday get togethers to keep them happy but you don’t tell them about other get togethers.
Thank you for talking about Project M/+. Ever since 2015 it’s kinda felt like we didn’t exist. Like we where some taboo topic no one wanted to confront. It was as if we just vanished. But ever since the Big House, and especially since Riptide, there has been such a tremendous outpouring of solidarity and a genuine care for our community again. It means so much to simply be allowed to exist again. I say something similar every time a major melee content creator mentions our little game, but that’s because I mean it.
I wonder what people here think the actual risk of dying from COVID is for people who make up the melee community. You're orders of magnitude more likely to die while driving to the event.
It really hurts that the company who made so many games we all enjoyed over the years is so incredibly bent on making sure we only enjoy them to a limited extent. I truly have no idea what it will take to get them to change this way of thinking that has scorned so many of their once biggest fans. This video is a great showcase of the recent history of the struggle between Nintendo and their fans!
Worth noting with PM that nintendo was approached by sponsers who wanted to pay for tournaments and large prize pools along with paying nintendo but even that got turned down by nintendo. this deal being turned down by nintendo was not only asking nothing from nintendo aside their blessing but would have been able to bring the smash scene as a whole much further than it is now. with the idea of major sponsership such as dr pepper in 2014 wanting to dump money into the scene one can only imagine how much could have been if nintendo took the deal for the money and allowed PM to exist and be proud of. It is a shame
Iirc wasn't the deal that Nintendo will help/allow Twitch/Red Bull/Dr Pepper to make Smash 4/Melee circuits if PM was basically killed? And that's why VGBC got rid of their PM VODs?
In spirit of Nintendo thinking they own everything you make, let's not forget that they had their own UA-cam "partner program" where they took half, if not all revenue from youtube videos made about their games
That's generally just how IP laws work in Japan. It's annoying AF but if you think it's fair they have to follow our laws, it's only right we follow theirs. The youtube partner program was absolute BS though. I don't see how they should be able to control the content made with their game.
We really need a Slippy for P+. Rollback is one of the things that keeps me practicing in current year for most fighting games. Rollback for P+ would be a god send.
The toxic melee scene in my state CT seemed to almost be at war with the brawl scene and the smash scene basically died. Then project M came out. It brought the people of both worlds together and created a scene in my state that is alive and well today. I ran many events to be a part of the spark that lit that flame and I'm proud of it. I'm hoping to start running ultimate, melee, and project+ events in the near future. I still have my 15 Back Breaking CRT's ready to go. -tkotournaments
That's why I love PM its truly a game for everyone. It's got all the casual stuff from brawl but all the good stuff from previous games. It's like a perfect storm of accessibility and skill. It's ceiling isn't as high as melee but it's not low but it's skill floor is fair amount lower
Being a part of the birth of the CT PM community is still one of the best things I've ever done. I really love everyone in this community. You're all amazing people. -Giga K
@@illford Also, it doesn't punish you hard as melee, like airdodging off stage into death, and broken jank from both melee and brawl are gone, so every character is unironically good. I won't ever play project plus since it requires a fuck ton of things but it really was the perfect mix, the precursor to smash ultimate
Strict parents don't create well behaved children. Strict parents create sneaky, resentful children. Fan projects are still going to be made, but it will become more and more difficult as these fan projects start getting posted anonymously & open source to ensure that they are never truly killed.
I would've love to see the whistleblower stuff included that discussed all the ways that nintendo was continually trying to torpedo the competitive scene behind the curtains.
@@isrlydonut8686 it was in the documentary 8 years ago. Melee was set to make a comeback at evo 2013 after 7 years and Nintendo tried to stop evo from streaming melee. The developers of melee hated what the community made the game. They wanted a “party game for fun” and it turned into a bunch of broken mechanics being abused that they never intended to be in the game. At that point brawl had been out for 5 years and Nintendo was tired of melee and wanted it dead for good. I guess I can see where they are coming from because developing games with competition and events in mind becomes a lot trickier than just making a fun game for kids (which is what melee was meant to be) you can get away with op characters or moves because it’s just non competitive fun anyway, but now they have to make sure everything is balanced as good as they can everything becomes more difficult knowing gfuel sniffing tryhards will disect the game to the bone. I don’t think Nintendo likes competition at all. Makes sense cause if it weren’t for Mario that company would of been murdered by Xbox and PlayStation long ago.
The percerverance of Melee, Smash, and fighting games as a whole is why I truly love these games. I may not be all that great at them or even play Melee to begin with, but seeing the determination of one community and the incredible things they've done surrounding these games is like no other. It's amazing how much I teared up just watching this video and others like it. Thank you to everyone who worked on this video and those who continue to make videos like it, it truly shows the beauty that is Smash and fighting games.
Hard agree. I love playing these games, and I might not ever get to be a pro player or a commentator or a known figure in their communities, but god damn it I'm in love of our history and our perceverance.
I took time out of studying for an exam tomorrow to watch this, and it was incredibly worth it. Great doc, it really shows the passion and love that people have for our game, and others like it.
I heard that is because Sega basically has to since their franchises are more popular in the West VS in Japan, so they have to act more like a Western company or risk pissing off the region of most of their fans.
the saddest thing about this whole thing is that our community is really really small compared to nintendo’s massive global community (on and offline) so no matter how much we beg and plead it will fall apon deaf ears.
Back when the whole "Free Melee" thing started I rolled my eyes at it (mostly because no one would shut up about it and it got super annoying to hear over and over), but this video really put the struggles of the community into perspective. Thanks man (wonderful editing by the way! Like damn this is such a unique way of presentation)
As someone who moved on to other games, i still feel bad for the nintendo community. Nintendo games where a big part of my childhood, and seeing the company become selfish and irrational hurts my soul. I was once part of the scene, a brawl vet, and now a distant spectator. Smash has a special place in my heart, it started my huge interest in the whole fighter genre. I can only hope for the best of melee/p+'s future
There is no legal gray area about whether emulators are against the law, at least in the US where they tend to be developed. There's precedent that makes it quite clear they're legal to make, such as Sony vs Bleem, Sony vs Connectix, and Sega vs Accolade, and no precedent or laws that make them illegal to distribute or download, at least insofar as they don't contain material that violates intellectual property law (e.g. a ripped BIOS, a copyrighted ROM, etc,)
What I really want to see if a legal battle won by the common user wherein the company consistently failing to present an alternative play method, such as an official emulator, qualified as IP or copyright abandonment for the contested material. Because that's really what it is. They keep saying that they own the copyright and that its their IP, but then they consistently fail to make it available through official channels. If they made an official BIOS and ROM available for purchase, then they could easily make the argument that nobody should be allowed to distribute their ripped BIOS or ROMs, as an official channel exists for procurement of such. But they don't. It's ridiculous.
I mean, to be completely fair, having a better online than Ultimate isn't hard. Congrats, you've managed high knees. (Before anyone says you've walked over the ground, that's Brawl's online.
Nintendo has no right to shut down and lord over unauthorized modifications of their games after they lost the Galoob appeal. If Game Genie is fair use, so are Project M, Project+ and Pokemon Prism. 13:00 Nintendo _lost_ the appeal. AM2R on the other hand... Probably would never hold up in court. Still a Richard move. Least Samus Returns... Somehow is not in the collective consciousness of the masses?
I remember first playing Melee. My mother somehow got a hold of my cousin's old gamecube and the games for it. It was my first video game system ever and I remember Melee stood out to me. I picked Pikachu because it was the only character I knew at the time. Spamming Down B on Master Hand. A decade later I find out that the game had a competitive side, it felt like seeing an old friend after not seeing each other for a while. Now I'm spamming Luigi Nair on Platforms.
Fantastic video. A Little side note: The Donation Drive for EVO 2013 was almost won by another game. In the beginning, Fighting is Magic, a fighting game made by a group of My Little Pony fans held a huge lead in the drive. However, unexpectedly for a community that has been continuously terrorized by legal action, Smash's shot at EVO was saved by legal action from another brand. With the donation drive in full swing, Fighting is Magic received a C&D from Hasbro's lawyers. Development was halted and the game was pulled from the donation drive. Some fans believe that Hasbro took this action precisely because the EVO drive gave the game too much publicity and they were not about to let their Ponies beat each other in the Big Stage.
Don't forget that the FiM devs went on to reskin and further polish the game into the legally distinct "Them's Fightin' Herds," which eventually made it to EVO online.
Never thought I needed a "Pretty Good"/"Dorktown" type Melee video until now lmao Very comprehensive, with all of the necessary information, which is to be expected of this channel. CRAZY digs at Nintendo too haha Our communities will get ours, soon enough! Keep fighting! Only thing I gotta ask is: can I get that graphic? please :>
I knew the last one was gonna be about am2r before you even showed Metroid. They literally waited 5 years while this dude was making the game, to crush it all when he finally finished it. You can't tell me they hadn't heard about it earlier. I mean we are talking about the company who will literally send private investigators to spy on you, if you create homebrew software for their 3DS.
It’s funny that a lot of this Project M drama could’ve been avoided if Nintendo didn’t go out of their way to make Brawl AWFUL ON PURPOSE. I think it’s insane that Nintendo isn’t called out on that more often. They gutted the GAMEPLAY aspect of their GAME! Why? Because they didn’t like the way some people were playing it…
It was made the way it was because it came on a console where the main controller was a remote controller clone without sticks and it was aimed at a casual audience, it has to do with demographics more than it has to do with Nintendo caring much about competitive players lol
I mean Smash was never meant to be a competitive game dude, Melee was only.really the way it is because it didn't have enough time.to polish the mechanics and physics.
Brawl is my favorite Smash. I don't see how it's awful at all. Personally, Melee is my least favorite. It's too fast-paced, which to me is a huge detriment. Melee isn't even remotely fun compared to Brawl
I don't know what's more infuriating; Nintendo's ruthless and out of touch crusade against fan projects, or all the ass kissing apologists that defend, praise, and encourage them whenever they shut down such a project.
This is something very important to get out to the masses. I don't believe Nintendo's stance will ever change however the only possible road there is thru incredibly produced content like this that can hopefully reach a broad audience. This affects every Nintendo gamer and fan.
videogames are a luxury, not a necessity, as such, it will not really gonna get a reaction from the masses unless its from a defective product (like the joycon) or false advertising, (which surprisingly they have yet to be guilty of it, the new NSO expansion pack could have been controversial, but was very straightforward about the pricing, its up to the consumer to decide if they upgrade or not).
@@YightLagami Sadly, Nintendo themselves were the underdog once before trying to compete against a company by all accounts should've lost. Back before they were a small company and when they made the Donkey Kong Arcade games, Universal Studios, the same creators and the ones who owned King Kong, sent a lawsuit to Nintendo for infringing on "King Kong" since that belonged to their character and Donkey Kong, was a trademark infringement. Nintendo countered that it was public domain and as such, won the lawsuit.
This was such a beautiful video, I loved the use of a timeline and how you are completing it throughout the video. Thank you everyone who worked on this for the powerful message, in that this has become our game and that we will never let it die!
As someone who's been actively in the scene for a long time, and has been very entrenched in its history, I really appreciated the mention of Nova. I'd only ever heard the final dollar value of the drive, never anyone's individual contributions. Obviously it was never about the individual. But I think they deserve some credit. And I appreciate it.
That’s why M2K used the Nova tag for as long as he did. M2K had mentioned it long enough ago that I had forgotten about it but wow $20k is insane and it made the difference.
Something not said in this is that a trailer for Melee Online (not slippi) was posted in 2016? and that project fell through speculatively due to C&D letters. So we could’ve had a good online melee client years earlier. It’s good Fizzi released slippi before Nintendo could say anything.
Nintendo in a nutshell: "You're having fun the wrong way!" They also have a history of "fixing" what isn't broken... Or that official "nintendo content creator", that any content creator needed for showing anything involving their IP This list is endless... They are trying to micromanage what is ultimately not in their hands and that's how people use their "products" and they seem surprised when it backfires, altough the only surprise is that it doesn't backfire more often
The Project + takedown this year actually killed Nintendo to me. With.. some exceptions (sorry gotta play Metroid) I've cut my Switch completely out of my gaming. All PC gaming now.
wow! i sure hope that nothing like this will ever happen again, surely Panda global wouldn't cause the biggest smash event of the year to be shut down just weeks before it was going to happen!
If Nintendo would just FUCKING release melee on any virtual console with any degree of online compatibility, none of this would be an issue. Throw in an hd texture pack if they're feeling generous Thousands of people would buy it.
As quoted by Ben Kenobi himself "Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." And that is exactly how it went between Nintendo and the common gamer. The corporation may have won all the legal battles. But it's the gamers who have won the war, all for the sake of fun, togetherness, labors of love, and to scream the names of the things we love so loudly that no one can ignore them. And Nintendo, despite their threats and charges against us for everything we stand for, knows well that we will never cease and desist.
Whoa you mean you "risk dying" every single day, and you aren't dead? Wow you must be some kinda super human. Or maybe COVID isn't as deadly as the TV is telling you.
All of those Covid numbers are massively inflated btw and even if we get to 94% vaccine rate in the US it seems to not have stopped Ireland from having outbreaks
Shoutout to EmpLemon covering a lot of these issues a few months back, but covering many of the non Smash Bros related horrible business practices as well.
This video essay is a fantastic advertisement for all of the fan-made Nintendo mods you never knew about. When I saw Pokemon Uranium, I said, "What is that? I have to look it up."
this channel in general (and this video in particular) embodies what i love about melee: very smart people spending a lot of time on something that might not Matter in the grand scheme but it’s okay because we all get to think about that photo of paris hilton holding a gamecube again.
currently at the AM2R part of your video. one bit i see people not mentioning, though i think it was on Milton's blog for the game, was he contacted Nintendo over the years of development, repeatedly asking "is it ok if i make this? if you tell me to stop, i will" and he never got a reply. so with no reply from anyone at Nintendo, he understood it as he had the green light to continue. the fact they sent a C&D after it was completed can be taken one of two ways. either they wanted to be major scummy in waiting until release just to add another nail into the coffin of people despising their business practices, or they wanted to let it be released, but only in a short window as an attempt to save face in how they really don't like people making fan projects, yet they allowed a short lived exception around the same time, i remember them also shutting down a pokemon fangame made for PC, that i only played a little bit of, and i liked it. but forgot the name Edit: oh, you briefly brought it up. thanks for that
Me my mate haven't either. I've considered buying Links Awakening but if I do end up doing it I'll be buying it second hand. My mate just cracked the shit out of his switch soooooo... Nice
@@MewtwoStruckBack what justification? There is no rational reason for doing any of this. All of these games are out of production so there isn’t even a profit motive. Nintendo is just staffed by a bunch of bitter old businessmen who hate “impurities” in their IP.
@@jazaniac If you’re not going to buy new Nintendo products, it makes sense for them to (A) not give a shit about you and (B) discourage or snuff out things that are an alternative to someone buying their new product. So many Melee players have said all the way back when Brawl came out that they weren’t going to buy it and were going to continue playing Melee even before any related C&Ds, and to them that was a threat they needed to deal with. It sucks for your community, 100%, and I wholly hope you get the competitive experience you want, just outside of Smash. Rivals of Aether, Nick All-Star Brawl, etc.
Im still a little mad for Nintendo taking down pokemon Uranium as at the time, other smaller teams were working at pokemon fan games and it all felt down in an instant forcing the pokemon community to mod the games make rom hacks and sell them on Ebay and other sites to make it accesible, having to manually produce cartridges of ur fan game to make it accesible to the world would be too far for any other community but the pokemon community has no other choice, heck between 2015 and 2018 Pokemon fangame were on Roblox to avoid cesit and desist and these games were some of the best pokemon fan games ever, example : Pokemon Brick Bronze wich included everything from the main series game at the time, an original good story and regular updates, Pokemon Brick Bronze was one of the best Roblox games sitting in the front page everyday until it was gone... it along with any other Pokemon Roblox games, Pokemon Fighter EX, Project Pokemon and many others. Honestly i hope 1 day they make a pokemon maker or some shit that way the community can create legal fangames but i doubt it
Really clever use of symbols throughout: the empty Nintendo logo, the censored character faces, and the collage inside the empty Nintendo logo. Good stuff
Nintendo developers have made some of the greatest games of all time. Nintendo executives have made some of the worst gaming decisions of all time. Even outside of smash they do scummy things like mario 35, taking a fan made, built from the ground up mario battle royal, Nintendo-ing it then stealing the idea. EVen mario 3d all stars itself is a scam but it made them money so im sure they'll do it again.
Nintendo could have come out on top if they ported melee to switch and gave it even the most rudimentary online functionality. If the current VC offerings are any indication, retroactively stapling multiplayer to old emulated games is child's play for them. Though the quote is often misused, this right here is the exact scenario Gabe Newell was talking about. This is piracy as a service problem. This is piracy because Nintendo refuses to let us buy the product. Nintendo's so scared to compete with themselves that they literally lose money refusing to offer the product that customers want to pay for. A product which has already been made, and simply needs to be ported.
A lot of people ask me why I hate Nintendo so much but love playing their games. I hate Nintendo as a company because while they make amazing games they notoriously treat their most dedicated fans like trash. I want everyone to check this video out if they get the chance.
There is no such thing as a good game company. Every good game you see being released nowadays is made off of the abuse of its developers. Even the good ones like Metroid Dread and Fallout: New Vegas suffered hugely from their respective team’s awful treatment of their employees. Piracy of video games is completely ethical.
another great video. i always love hearing the stories and tribulations of melee as an esport, even if i've never played the game competitively myself. i've become so invested in this community through the smash doc and other great videos (like yours and turndownforwalt's), so thank you.
It really does seem like Nintendo does not see Smash as a series of 6 games but instead as a single game they update every decade or so. Newest update out? Be a good Nintendrone and throw the old version in the trash, forget it ever existed, and don't you dare change anything. Because it's better to die of a preventable disease than use our product in a way we don't approve of. And don't even think about caring about a glitch we have no intention of recreating and will actively make sure it does not happen again thanks to all the focus it got.
20:12 "Five years of work" Oh you don't even know. It was not 5, it was basically 10 I was even following the project for about 8 of those years, I remember being a young kid and being ecstatic when the first demo of the game released. I was playing back when Metroid: Confrontation, a tech demo showcasing features AM2R would have, was still being _updated_. This was an _EXTREMELY_ long project in the making Snuffed out a day after release. I'm not mad or anything, just wanted to make a correction on how much more brutal this actually was, thank you so much for sharing the story of AM2R, I'm so happy to be a part of that community and get to experience to fantastic updates they've been making for the game, in spite of nintendo's repeated efforts to ruin the fun.
AM2R was likely caught when they were doing a routine trademark sweep/update before SR came out. Probably wouls not have been DMCAd if SR wasnt developed...
Reminder the legal grey area has never been around emulators its been around roms/isos, Sony lost that law suit years ago over PS1 emulation.
How did they lose lol
Ive heard this, but I've also heard there is some funny business with streaming rights, so if Nintendo want they can cut all streaming of any of there IPs
If you actually look at the graphics when he calls it a grey area (4:49), he says "they aren't" and cites the Connectix case
There's no legal grey area around roms, either. Downloading them is illegal, but there's an explicit exception to the dmca for dumping games from hardware considered obsolete, which the gamecube would obviously fall under.
@@cairnsaiden that's correct. Nintendo doesn't have muchh basis to prevent people from modding, emulating, or hosting melee/PM tournaments but they can just block all the streaming and video rights from any of their IPs. So even if a TO tries to run a P+ side event without streaming it, Nintendo has legal basis to cuck the entire event if they feel like it.
Nintendo as a company feels like it has its own built-in tripping mechanic.
The GameCube… the best Nintendo console.
Like in SSB Brawl
Yeowch!
I stopped buying their shlock. They treat their fans like suckers. After learning how they tried to control retailers in the 1980s and through all their nonsense lately.. they have exhibited anti-consumer behavior at every opportunity.
So many choices how to spend my entertainment budget.. vote for good companies with good products with your dollars.
It's somehow worse than EA.
And remember, EA tried to bribe the mods of the star wars subreddit after the "pride and accomplishment" comment, aka the most disliked post/comment in reddit history.
Shoutouts to the Splatoon community.
Smash will never forget the support and love we got from you.
Mad respect.
Splatoon comunnity based af
more maps than all two games together
As a frequent Splatoon 2 player, I don't think that any of us who actually care about the competitive scene wouldn't have done this. We got our tournament even if Nintendo tried to stop us from getting it, we supported a fellow competitive scene, and I myself would support a similar cause in an instant. We were getting special treatment from Nintendo, they were promoting Splatoon as their premiere competitive scene, and there was no reason the Smash scene shouldn't get similar treatment, so we used our spotlight to our advantage, and to some extent, I'd say it worked. Considering the Splatoon community as a whole, I think it's safe to say we'll be sticking with the Smash community for the long haul.
;) right back at you
TRUEEEEEEEEE
"You're having fun wrong"
-Nintendo
I can't wait for the Steam Deck to curb stomp their face.
@@MumblyJumbles can’t wait for some way for Nintendo to sue steam deck for looking too similar to the switch lmao
@@da_nong8152 Well, Nintendo isn't known for wise decisions.
@@MumblyJumbles let's be honest that's not happening. It would be nice for them to have some competition but just one reason it won't is family's and kids. I imagine parents are far more likely to buy a switch something they know has family friendly games than a steam deck. Not to mention it's nintendos exclusives that really carry it and don't tell me about emulation since that's not perfect and there are many people like said family's wont try or won't bother to try to emulate games. I'm interested to see how the steam deck turns out but honestly even if it's a big success I don't think it would really effect the switch or it's sales all that much.
More like, "You're having fun that doesn't make us money."
Shoutouts to the other mods that kept ProjectM alive until (and even after) Project+ was announced. Cobalt Legacy, LegacyTE, and more (and more to come, I’m sure) - every individual modder had a helping hand in keeping what they love alive and going strong from the shadows, and for that I couldn’t be more proud to be a part of it 💙
Appreciate that. 👍
Big shoutouts.
You're the candles in the dark that refused to go out.
Mad respect
@@johncavalry4802 Why? Knuckles is fun.
Rollback for PM!
@@davidvkimball Huge shoutouts to David for keeping quality builds alive until after P+ released.
Sad part is this still isn't all the things Nintendo has done.
The sadder part is it isnt over
the saddest part is that they won't stop anytime soon
Cough cough pokemon uranium
Etika Joy-Cons
@@dannyboots Actually they were fine with those. They just wanted their name changed because they used “Joy-cons” in the name.
Also there was some controversy behind the guy making them. I forgot exactly what happened but I think he took some of the money for himself.
Pretty bummed that this video didn't bother to mention the fact that the brawl, PM, and 64 communities community banded together to donate towards melee for Evo 2013 instead of splitting the money on their own games.
Very true, this should NOT be forgotten. Everyone came together, even if it wasn´t for their own personal cause
Games basically killed there communities so melee would live
@@ASN_JAY They walked, so we could run.
Honestly I forgot about this until you mentioned it. Easy to see that Melee had the best chance of previous smash titles actually making it, but such a relief that gamers joined together for the recognition they all felt entitled to and managed to strong-arm Nintendo into submission.
Skullgirls: "I guess we will continue to be pretty obscure as a community"
A forgotten example of Nintendo’s tyranny is Mario Royale. Released in summer 2019, it was DMCA’d by Nintendo out of existence. A year later, Mario 35 is released (which, by the way, Nintendo took off their servers). Eerily similar to the story of AM2R and no one seems to recognize that this happened.
Worst part is that the dev replaced all the assets and level design just to get DMCA'd again. I'm not even sure that is even legal.
@@Eichro Probably not, but it is scarily easy for a megacorporation to legally attack a poor individual who they know can't possibly have the money to rightfully fight back
@@Eichro A DMCA is a legal notice, basically giving intent to sue if certain demands are not met. It's SUPPOSED TO only be used in situations where copyrights are being infringed, but there's literally nothing stopping a company from dumping a DMCA notice on anybody for any reason. There's also absolutely nothing stopping somebody from outright ignoring or refusing to comply with a DMCA notice, with the caveat that the failure to comply with the DMCA could be used in a legal case against the receiver of the DMCA as evidence that they had been warned about the infringement prior to being sued.
DMCAs are blown way out of proportion by companies like Twitch or UA-cam that blindly comply with them 100% of the time. But there's nothing stopping a singular person from ignoring it and continuing to publish their work. The caveat is that Nintendo is insanely litigious and will drag people through the court system, regardless of how strong of a case they actually have, and try to bankrupt people to get their way.
Incidentally, Nintendo also has a fairly shit track record of succeeding in court cases. If you can put up the capital to withstand Nintendo's legal barrage, there's a fairly strong chance that you can win the case.
In short- Just use Sonic characters instead. SEGA doesn't give a shit and has made a firm stance that they, for the most part, have no intention of going after fans making fan-made works of their IPs.
@@darkfoxfurre Hmm, check with recent news, SEGA has come after some of the Sonic creators recently with DMCAs, specifically in the music scene. They might be having a change of tone on the horizon. Hopefully not, it's really the only thing Sonic has going for it since they can't seem to put out an unbroken game.
@@RWAsur If I remember correctly, it was a different team that did that and not SEGA itself.
Damn what a beautiful video essay. Everyone a fan of Nintendo or there games need to know this, if only Nintendo were to change.... :/
@@_matz *theyer
Nintendo is weird. They want fans, but once those fans love their games too much, they try and ruin it for them.
Nintendo won't change because they are rewarded for their efforts.
People can say all the things they want, but it doesn't matter if we keep buying it anyway. The absolute truth is that the only way to hurt a company is through their revenue.
Revenue is a reason why F-Zero is a dead franchise, only barely living on through Mario Kart. Revenue is a reason why there were four "New" Super Mario games. Revenue is the reason why Pokemon never seems to take a break and has to keep the Pokegears churning. Revenue is a reason why Zelda "went back to its roots" with Breath of the Wild. Revenue is the reason why Fire Emblem is alive again when it was near its death with Awakening.
It's not enough for you to stop rewarding them when they do things that displease the fans. You have to convince a whole lotta people to do the same too, which is really hard because people just wanna consume.
Capitalism bad :(
@@RhizometricReality BETTER THAN RACIST SJW LGBT COMMUNISM! ID RATHER DIE TO A CORPORATE AGENT THAN LET ANOTHER COMMIE IN THIS COUNTRY!
Then someone has the audacity to tell us that "they are well within their rights to. . ."
I hate when legality is conflated with morality
Never forget the world you want. But never forget the world we have.
Well, that happens all the time. Legality is just an instrument for those who have the most bucks. It's an illusion; hence it's quite common for it to go against morality and legitimacy.
The most infuriating thing is that in a lot of these cases, they are NOT within their legal right to shut these things down, many of the cease and desists fall under clear Fair Use doctrine and given a good judge Nintendo would lose the lawsuit. But they're just a massive wealthy corporation that can afford to draw out lawsuits arbitrarily long and none of the fan communities have the resources to fight it.
People who set their morals over what is or is not legal are usually the most immoral and grossest people alive. (Example: 'well *technically* its not illegal to mess around with a 14 year old in some places so it's fine'. Well, Cuba has no law against animal abuse so it's fine)
Like bro.. Lmao
@@Nukestarmaster They have more legal leverage than you have considered. Fair Use is generally interpreted very narrowly by the courts, and you should look at the actual wording. As for them shutting down tournaments, the reason they can do this is because these are broadcast events, and you don't actually have the rights to broadcast the gameplay of a game, regardless that you own and play it legally, though i expect this to either get challenged and change eventually, or become monetised at some sort of tenable fixed rate.
Do they have to be such arseholes? Well SEGA, Valve and others demonstrate that they don't, there is no hard reason for them to. And indeed, these seem to benefit from fan creativity nicely. This is also quite unusual for a company coming from a country with a strong doujin-shi culture.
I wouldn't give SEGA too much credit for their handling of Sonic Mania, though. In 2011 SEGA had the Streets of Rage Remake, a fan release, pulled from the internet via a cease and desist.
Note that Streets of Rage 3 came out in 1994, and Streets of Rage 4 came out in 2020. SEGA was doing nothing with the franchise at the time of the fan game releasing, but that didn't stop them shutting down a fan game to 'protect their intellectual property'.
The fan had been working on the remake for 8 years, only for it to be shut down by a legal team. SEGA could have bought the game and released it themself for easy money, they were doing nothing with the francchise, but they did just as Nintendo are known to do.
Didn't they change their minds back when the retro engine port of sonic CD came out
Tho it still sucks that the remake got DMCAd
tbf, their business practices could have changed when they saw how everyone hated nintendo for being so controlling
@@ItsCenrryTH I couldn't find any info on SEGA officially changing their mind about it, although while the game was in development the fans did contact SEGA and it seemed fine at the time. They obviously then spent years making it, only to be sent a cease and desist after they released it, which must have been crushing for them. Very poorly handled overall by SEGA, and very similar to how Nintendo are known to handle things.
I don't think SEGA has a consistent policy, rather a number of different forces within the company pulling it into different directions. But when they don't go against fan projects, that's a demonstration that things CAN be handled differently, that there is no hard reason for a company to do that.
Let us also remember that time they copyright striked and even shut down a bunch of YT channels in 2012 that had even just a smidge of Shining Force related content, just so they could boost search results for their new Shinin Ark game.
I'll never forget the Splat00n community for how badass it was that day
@@JonSmith-hk1bq wanting a billion dollar company to stop abusing unethical copyright laws to strong-arm community driven movements is not “toxic” get your head out of reggie’s ass.
@@JonSmith-hk1bq you seem not to realize the smash community has given up on wanting support from nintendo, they just want to be left alone.
@@JonSmith-hk1bq Susan, remove the like button
John Smith is gone, but his shitty legacy still remains
splatoon is mad cringe but i love them for what they did
The fans and Nintendo are in an abusive relationship
yes we are
Companies wants profit
@@yarc9 if they wanted profit, they would actually support their community, what they want is to control their fans.
@@yarc9 how can they make profit from a game that they no longer sell/distribute/etc lol. i could be wrong, but if they wanted to profit off of all of this im pretty sure they could support the tournaments and make a deal with the TOs where they get a cut of the money that was made. unfortunately, all nintendo cares about is censorship via threatening legal action and abusing copyright laws. a shame nintendo doesnt care about its fans.
@@sydandpie146 their a business and they want to make money even sega cares about making cash over anything else sega does what nintendont is stupid
Nintendo is like that Uncle nobody in the family wants at a holiday get together but has to be there because they are “family.” So instead you cancel those get togethers and do smaller, more fun and specific parties. And if Uncle Nintendo finds out they start laying out threats when they weren’t invited. So you have to invite them to some of the bigger holiday get togethers to keep them happy but you don’t tell them about other get togethers.
Ah yes, that classic archetype of uncle everybody has, very relatable.
That is TERRIFYINGLY accurate.
wtf??
@@HoytTheMage An uncle who works at Nintendo one might say.
It is really sad how insane that rant was
Thank you for talking about Project M/+. Ever since 2015 it’s kinda felt like we didn’t exist. Like we where some taboo topic no one wanted to confront. It was as if we just vanished. But ever since the Big House, and especially since Riptide, there has been such a tremendous outpouring of solidarity and a genuine care for our community again. It means so much to simply be allowed to exist again. I say something similar every time a major melee content creator mentions our little game, but that’s because I mean it.
Just emulate Switch
@@ThirdXavier How does emulating the switch solve the problem presented in the original comment?
5:05
"If you wanna play Melee, you need to meet in person and risk dying"
Easy choice for any hardcore Melee player.
I wonder what people here think the actual risk of dying from COVID is for people who make up the melee community. You're orders of magnitude more likely to die while driving to the event.
It really hurts that the company who made so many games we all enjoyed over the years is so incredibly bent on making sure we only enjoy them to a limited extent. I truly have no idea what it will take to get them to change this way of thinking that has scorned so many of their once biggest fans.
This video is a great showcase of the recent history of the struggle between Nintendo and their fans!
All of the old men in their board rooms need to die off in order for change to be made. That's always been the problem, old men that fear change.
Screw changing their minds, fight them in court
Yeah it what we like to refer to them as the "dinosaurs" that are still in the company.
They won't change their minds. Support indie and indie exclusively, eat the rich. We die like warriors or we live like cowards.
@@maverickREAL and if I don't like what the indie scene is offering?
Worth noting with PM that nintendo was approached by sponsers who wanted to pay for tournaments and large prize pools along with paying nintendo but even that got turned down by nintendo.
this deal being turned down by nintendo was not only asking nothing from nintendo aside their blessing but would have been able to bring the smash scene as a whole much further than it is now.
with the idea of major sponsership such as dr pepper in 2014 wanting to dump money into the scene one can only imagine how much could have been if nintendo took the deal for the money and allowed PM to exist and be proud of.
It is a shame
Iirc wasn't the deal that Nintendo will help/allow Twitch/Red Bull/Dr Pepper to make Smash 4/Melee circuits if PM was basically killed? And that's why VGBC got rid of their PM VODs?
@@nazukah2861 And then... _surprise!_ They _DIDN'T!!!_
In spirit of Nintendo thinking they own everything you make, let's not forget that they had their own UA-cam "partner program" where they took half, if not all revenue from youtube videos made about their games
Greedy bastards.
That's generally just how IP laws work in Japan. It's annoying AF but if you think it's fair they have to follow our laws, it's only right we follow theirs. The youtube partner program was absolute BS though. I don't see how they should be able to control the content made with their game.
And before that "deal", they will strike all of your nintendo-related content. No exceptions.
We really need a Slippy for P+. Rollback is one of the things that keeps me practicing in current year for most fighting games. Rollback for P+ would be a god send.
One year into the future and you're still spitting
Nintendo is the stepmom who gave up their kid only to try to take control of them once they became famous and made something of themselves.
The toxic melee scene in my state CT seemed to almost be at war with the brawl scene and the smash scene basically died. Then project M came out. It brought the people of both worlds together and created a scene in my state that is alive and well today. I ran many events to be a part of the spark that lit that flame and I'm proud of it. I'm hoping to start running ultimate, melee, and project+ events in the near future. I still have my 15 Back Breaking CRT's ready to go. -tkotournaments
That's why I love PM its truly a game for everyone. It's got all the casual stuff from brawl but all the good stuff from previous games. It's like a perfect storm of accessibility and skill. It's ceiling isn't as high as melee but it's not low but it's skill floor is fair amount lower
Username checks out the status of this community.
I'm really glad too because Kycse and Fiipp are both incredible players that have had a huge impact on PM's history.
Being a part of the birth of the CT PM community is still one of the best things I've ever done. I really love everyone in this community. You're all amazing people.
-Giga K
@@illford Also, it doesn't punish you hard as melee, like airdodging off stage into death, and broken jank from both melee and brawl are gone, so every character is unironically good. I won't ever play project plus since it requires a fuck ton of things but it really was the perfect mix, the precursor to smash ultimate
Strict parents don't create well behaved children. Strict parents create sneaky, resentful children.
Fan projects are still going to be made, but it will become more and more difficult as these fan projects start getting posted anonymously & open source to ensure that they are never truly killed.
Its possible to be strict and good, it just depends on how you do it...you don't wanna be too loose either for obvious reasons...
Can confirm. Am a sneaky resentful child.
I would've love to see the whistleblower stuff included that discussed all the ways that nintendo was continually trying to torpedo the competitive scene behind the curtains.
I never heard about that before. What happened?
What Happened?
@@isrlydonut8686 ua-cam.com/video/5j6yTRxz-uE/v-deo.html
Here's a summary video by hbox
@@isrlydonut8686 it was in the documentary 8 years ago. Melee was set to make a comeback at evo 2013 after 7 years and Nintendo tried to stop evo from streaming melee. The developers of melee hated what the community made the game. They wanted a “party game for fun” and it turned into a bunch of broken mechanics being abused that they never intended to be in the game. At that point brawl had been out for 5 years and Nintendo was tired of melee and wanted it dead for good. I guess I can see where they are coming from because developing games with competition and events in mind becomes a lot trickier than just making a fun game for kids (which is what melee was meant to be) you can get away with op characters or moves because it’s just non competitive fun anyway, but now they have to make sure everything is balanced as good as they can everything becomes more difficult knowing gfuel sniffing tryhards will disect the game to the bone. I don’t think Nintendo likes competition at all. Makes sense cause if it weren’t for Mario that company would of been murdered by Xbox and PlayStation long ago.
The percerverance of Melee, Smash, and fighting games as a whole is why I truly love these games. I may not be all that great at them or even play Melee to begin with, but seeing the determination of one community and the incredible things they've done surrounding these games is like no other. It's amazing how much I teared up just watching this video and others like it. Thank you to everyone who worked on this video and those who continue to make videos like it, it truly shows the beauty that is Smash and fighting games.
Hard agree.
I love playing these games, and I might not ever get to be a pro player or a commentator or a known figure in their communities, but god damn it I'm in love of our history and our perceverance.
I took time out of studying for an exam tomorrow to watch this, and it was incredibly worth it. Great doc, it really shows the passion and love that people have for our game, and others like it.
good luck on your exam homie
I did the same for the original smash doc. Good luck!
Bro I’m doing that rn got a big exam tmw lol
it was a B Law exam copyrights law was on it kicked it’s ass
@@nutmegthedog6907 I kicked my exam's ass too, clearly the alike factor was the doc and that's why we did it
When it comes to rewarding passionate fans, sega really does do what nintendon’t.
I recall SEGA took down a fan game before
@@fixedfunshow they've never took down a fan game ever, in fact the fan game developers end up working for sega in the case of sonic mania
I heard that is because Sega basically has to since their franchises are more popular in the West VS in Japan, so they have to act more like a Western company or risk pissing off the region of most of their fans.
@@g1___ Ðis just in: Streets of Rage Remake was never taken down according to a random UA-cam commenter named kris.
This is why I'm rooting for Team Sega!
Also, I just like their games better. Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, such classics!
"you should buy the game"
-nintendo, not selling the game
the saddest thing about this whole thing is that our community is really really small compared to nintendo’s massive global community (on and offline) so no matter how much we beg and plead it will fall apon deaf ears.
Back when the whole "Free Melee" thing started I rolled my eyes at it (mostly because no one would shut up about it and it got super annoying to hear over and over), but this video really put the struggles of the community into perspective. Thanks man
(wonderful editing by the way! Like damn this is such a unique way of presentation)
As someone who moved on to other games, i still feel bad for the nintendo community. Nintendo games where a big part of my childhood, and seeing the company become selfish and irrational hurts my soul. I was once part of the scene, a brawl vet, and now a distant spectator. Smash has a special place in my heart, it started my huge interest in the whole fighter genre. I can only hope for the best of melee/p+'s future
They’ve always been selfish and irrational since the NES era, they didn’t “become” that.
The "Special Fuck You" to Nintendo in the credits made me teary-eyed 😢
There is no legal gray area about whether emulators are against the law, at least in the US where they tend to be developed. There's precedent that makes it quite clear they're legal to make, such as Sony vs Bleem, Sony vs Connectix, and Sega vs Accolade, and no precedent or laws that make them illegal to distribute or download, at least insofar as they don't contain material that violates intellectual property law (e.g. a ripped BIOS, a copyrighted ROM, etc,)
What I really want to see if a legal battle won by the common user wherein the company consistently failing to present an alternative play method, such as an official emulator, qualified as IP or copyright abandonment for the contested material. Because that's really what it is. They keep saying that they own the copyright and that its their IP, but then they consistently fail to make it available through official channels. If they made an official BIOS and ROM available for purchase, then they could easily make the argument that nobody should be allowed to distribute their ripped BIOS or ROMs, as an official channel exists for procurement of such. But they don't. It's ridiculous.
AND WE'RE BACK HERE AGAIN
And we back
I mean, to be completely fair, having a better online than Ultimate isn't hard. Congrats, you've managed high knees. (Before anyone says you've walked over the ground, that's Brawl's online.
I mean ,they didn't upgrade their online since 2006 .
Jon Bois’ editing/writing style may be one of the best things to ever happen to the youtube scene
Couldn't agree more, love Jon
This "nintendo" guy
He seems like a real jerk
Two years later, and here we are again.
The hate Nintendo has for their own dedicated playerbase is getting ridiculous.
I stayed for the credit to see if Nintendo deserved a special thanks. Glad I did.
Nintendo has no right to shut down and lord over unauthorized modifications of their games after they lost the Galoob appeal. If Game Genie is fair use, so are Project M, Project+ and Pokemon Prism. 13:00 Nintendo _lost_ the appeal.
AM2R on the other hand... Probably would never hold up in court. Still a Richard move. Least Samus Returns... Somehow is not in the collective consciousness of the masses?
Nintendo bout to C&D this video
I remember first playing Melee. My mother somehow got a hold of my cousin's old gamecube and the games for it. It was my first video game system ever and I remember Melee stood out to me. I picked Pikachu because it was the only character I knew at the time. Spamming Down B on Master Hand. A decade later I find out that the game had a competitive side, it felt like seeing an old friend after not seeing each other for a while. Now I'm spamming Luigi Nair on Platforms.
Fantastic video.
A Little side note:
The Donation Drive for EVO 2013 was almost won by another game. In the beginning, Fighting is Magic, a fighting game made by a group of My Little Pony fans held a huge lead in the drive.
However, unexpectedly for a community that has been continuously terrorized by legal action, Smash's shot at EVO was saved by legal action from another brand. With the donation drive in full swing, Fighting is Magic received a C&D from Hasbro's lawyers. Development was halted and the game was pulled from the donation drive.
Some fans believe that Hasbro took this action precisely because the EVO drive gave the game too much publicity and they were not about to let their Ponies beat each other in the Big Stage.
Don't forget that the FiM devs went on to reskin and further polish the game into the legally distinct "Them's Fightin' Herds," which eventually made it to EVO online.
thank you for telling P+'s story, and for articulating the greater struggle of the people vs N*ntendo #SaveSmash
Never thought I needed a "Pretty Good"/"Dorktown" type Melee video until now lmao
Very comprehensive, with all of the necessary information, which is to be expected of this channel.
CRAZY digs at Nintendo too haha
Our communities will get ours, soon enough! Keep fighting!
Only thing I gotta ask is: can I get that graphic? please :>
I was gonna say this same thing, I love the video style!
Large Jon Bois energy
Like Jon Bois mixed with Summoning Salt
I knew the last one was gonna be about am2r before you even showed Metroid. They literally waited 5 years while this dude was making the game, to crush it all when he finally finished it.
You can't tell me they hadn't heard about it earlier. I mean we are talking about the company who will literally send private investigators to spy on you, if you create homebrew software for their 3DS.
It’s funny that a lot of this Project M drama could’ve been avoided if Nintendo didn’t go out of their way to make Brawl AWFUL ON PURPOSE.
I think it’s insane that Nintendo isn’t called out on that more often. They gutted the GAMEPLAY aspect of their GAME! Why? Because they didn’t like the way some people were playing it…
It was made the way it was because it came on a console where the main controller was a remote controller clone without sticks and it was aimed at a casual audience, it has to do with demographics more than it has to do with Nintendo caring much about competitive players lol
Tru
I mean Smash was never meant to be a competitive game dude, Melee was only.really the way it is because it didn't have enough time.to polish the mechanics and physics.
Brawl is my favorite Smash. I don't see how it's awful at all. Personally, Melee is my least favorite. It's too fast-paced, which to me is a huge detriment. Melee isn't even remotely fun compared to Brawl
@@PeruvianPotato That's a myth. The development team has repeated several times than most of the advanced mechanics were fully intended and tested.
I don't know what's more infuriating; Nintendo's ruthless and out of touch crusade against fan projects, or all the ass kissing apologists that defend, praise, and encourage them whenever they shut down such a project.
Not everyone is an apologist but some people are tired of people making baseless comments
This is something very important to get out to the masses. I don't believe Nintendo's stance will ever change however the only possible road there is thru incredibly produced content like this that can hopefully reach a broad audience. This affects every Nintendo gamer and fan.
videogames are a luxury, not a necessity, as such, it will not really gonna get a reaction from the masses unless its from a defective product (like the joycon) or false advertising, (which surprisingly they have yet to be guilty of it, the new NSO expansion pack could have been controversial, but was very straightforward about the pricing, its up to the consumer to decide if they upgrade or not).
The only way to make the change is to fight the cease and desist legally. Melee community doesn't want to fight that fight because they will lose
@@YightLagami Sadly, Nintendo themselves were the underdog once before trying to compete against a company by all accounts should've lost. Back before they were a small company and when they made the Donkey Kong Arcade games, Universal Studios, the same creators and the ones who owned King Kong, sent a lawsuit to Nintendo for infringing on "King Kong" since that belonged to their character and Donkey Kong, was a trademark infringement. Nintendo countered that it was public domain and as such, won the lawsuit.
This was such a beautiful video, I loved the use of a timeline and how you are completing it throughout the video. Thank you everyone who worked on this for the powerful message, in that this has become our game and that we will never let it die!
As someone who's been actively in the scene for a long time, and has been very entrenched in its history, I really appreciated the mention of Nova. I'd only ever heard the final dollar value of the drive, never anyone's individual contributions.
Obviously it was never about the individual. But I think they deserve some credit. And I appreciate it.
That’s why M2K used the Nova tag for as long as he did. M2K had mentioned it long enough ago that I had forgotten about it but wow $20k is insane and it made the difference.
Something not said in this is that a trailer for Melee Online (not slippi) was posted in 2016? and that project fell through speculatively due to C&D letters. So we could’ve had a good online melee client years earlier. It’s good Fizzi released slippi before Nintendo could say anything.
long live grassroots communities, fkn love to see this kind of content
This anti consumerism is exactly why I don’t buy Nintendo products. The memes are too real.
Nintendo in a nutshell: "You're having fun the wrong way!"
They also have a history of "fixing" what isn't broken...
Or that official "nintendo content creator", that any content creator needed for showing anything involving their IP
This list is endless...
They are trying to micromanage what is ultimately not in their hands and that's how people use their "products" and they seem surprised when it backfires, altough the only surprise is that it doesn't backfire more often
This video radicalized me
This is one of the most beautiful video essays Ive watched, seriously amazing job with this script and feelings you get while watching.
I no longer feel bad about emulating Nintendo games.
The Project + takedown this year actually killed Nintendo to me.
With.. some exceptions (sorry gotta play Metroid) I've cut my Switch completely out of my gaming. All PC gaming now.
I haven't wanted to give them money in years.
And look at how they let gamefreak release garbage for pokemon too
7:17 those numbers can't be correct.. unless some of the people came back from the dead
Imagine the alternate universe where Nintendo wasn't so Nintendo.
wow! i sure hope that nothing like this will ever happen again, surely Panda global wouldn't cause the biggest smash event of the year to be shut down just weeks before it was going to happen!
If Nintendo would just FUCKING release melee on any virtual console with any degree of online compatibility, none of this would be an issue. Throw in an hd texture pack if they're feeling generous
Thousands of people would buy it.
As quoted by Ben Kenobi himself
"Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
And that is exactly how it went between Nintendo and the common gamer. The corporation may have won all the legal battles. But it's the gamers who have won the war, all for the sake of fun, togetherness, labors of love, and to scream the names of the things we love so loudly that no one can ignore them.
And Nintendo, despite their threats and charges against us for everything we stand for, knows well that we will never cease and desist.
EmpLemon also covered many of these problems a few months back, and it really speaks to how many fans were disrespected by the company over the years
RIP AM2R and Prime 2D
Gone but not forgotten
GREAT VIDEO #FREEMELEE
happy birthday man!!
Happy Birthday! Hope you have a good one :) #FREEMELEE
#FREEMELEE
ratio + ur white
thanks for taking time out on your birthday to watch and comment, moky!
If Iwata was alive, Nintendo wouldn't sell you a suscription with N64 and Genesis games for $50
Or old games at full price
Nintendo died with Iwata.
All the games on Nintendos online service can be played in a browser
seems jon bois inspired and im a huge fan of that, keep up the good work
Chart Party is goated.
🎮⬆️
5 minutes in and i am crying laughing at the "wii shop wednesday" reference when talking about melee having never been remade/rereleased
As an "essential worker" this covid stuff really gets to me. I've been working through it all and it's so damn hard.
Whoa you mean you "risk dying" every single day, and you aren't dead? Wow you must be some kinda super human. Or maybe COVID isn't as deadly as the TV is telling you.
@@snex000 this.
Amazing video, this melee community is insane.
All of those Covid numbers are massively inflated btw and even if we get to 94% vaccine rate in the US it seems to not have stopped Ireland from having outbreaks
Shoutout to EmpLemon covering a lot of these issues a few months back, but covering many of the non Smash Bros related horrible business practices as well.
This video essay is a fantastic advertisement for all of the fan-made Nintendo mods you never knew about. When I saw Pokemon Uranium, I said, "What is that? I have to look it up."
Wow, this video is really well made. Absolute perfection
this channel in general (and this video in particular) embodies what i love about melee: very smart people spending a lot of time on something that might not Matter in the grand scheme but it’s okay because we all get to think about that photo of paris hilton holding a gamecube again.
Great video! Just an FYI, in the section about Covid around 7:00 I think you meant global Covid cases, not global Covid deaths.
If I were you, I'd put this in a history museum.
For another example to add to this list check out the Mother 4 fan game now known as Oddity RPG.
currently at the AM2R part of your video. one bit i see people not mentioning, though i think it was on Milton's blog for the game, was he contacted Nintendo over the years of development, repeatedly asking "is it ok if i make this? if you tell me to stop, i will" and he never got a reply. so with no reply from anyone at Nintendo, he understood it as he had the green light to continue. the fact they sent a C&D after it was completed can be taken one of two ways. either they wanted to be major scummy in waiting until release just to add another nail into the coffin of people despising their business practices, or they wanted to let it be released, but only in a short window as an attempt to save face in how they really don't like people making fan projects, yet they allowed a short lived exception
around the same time, i remember them also shutting down a pokemon fangame made for PC, that i only played a little bit of, and i liked it. but forgot the name
Edit: oh, you briefly brought it up. thanks for that
I still haven't bought a nintendo product since the big house shut down and I don't see a reason to buy again. #savesmash
Me my mate haven't either. I've considered buying Links Awakening but if I do end up doing it I'll be buying it second hand. My mate just cracked the shit out of his switch soooooo... Nice
This is likely Nintendo’s justification for doing what they’re doing, if you think about it.
@@MewtwoStruckBack what justification? There is no rational reason for doing any of this. All of these games are out of production so there isn’t even a profit motive. Nintendo is just staffed by a bunch of bitter old businessmen who hate “impurities” in their IP.
@@jazaniac If you’re not going to buy new Nintendo products, it makes sense for them to (A) not give a shit about you and (B) discourage or snuff out things that are an alternative to someone buying their new product. So many Melee players have said all the way back when Brawl came out that they weren’t going to buy it and were going to continue playing Melee even before any related C&Ds, and to them that was a threat they needed to deal with. It sucks for your community, 100%, and I wholly hope you get the competitive experience you want, just outside of Smash. Rivals of Aether, Nick All-Star Brawl, etc.
@@MewtwoStruckBack I used to buy from Nintendo all the time. The Xbox 360 is the only non-Nintendo gaming product I own.
Im still a little mad for Nintendo taking down pokemon Uranium as at the time, other smaller teams were working at pokemon fan games and it all felt down in an instant forcing the pokemon community to mod the games make rom hacks and sell them on Ebay and other sites to make it accesible, having to manually produce cartridges of ur fan game to make it accesible to the world would be too far for any other community but the pokemon community has no other choice, heck between 2015 and 2018 Pokemon fangame were on Roblox to avoid cesit and desist and these games were some of the best pokemon fan games ever, example : Pokemon Brick Bronze wich included everything from the main series game at the time, an original good story and regular updates, Pokemon Brick Bronze was one of the best Roblox games sitting in the front page everyday until it was gone... it along with any other Pokemon Roblox games, Pokemon Fighter EX, Project Pokemon and many others. Honestly i hope 1 day they make a pokemon maker or some shit that way the community can create legal fangames but i doubt it
For some reason I was convinced this was about other m
Really clever use of symbols throughout: the empty Nintendo logo, the censored character faces, and the collage inside the empty Nintendo logo. Good stuff
Nintendo developers have made some of the greatest games of all time.
Nintendo executives have made some of the worst gaming decisions of all time. Even outside of smash they do scummy things like mario 35, taking a fan made, built from the ground up mario battle royal, Nintendo-ing it then stealing the idea. EVen mario 3d all stars itself is a scam but it made them money so im sure they'll do it again.
Nintendo could have come out on top if they ported melee to switch and gave it even the most rudimentary online functionality. If the current VC offerings are any indication, retroactively stapling multiplayer to old emulated games is child's play for them.
Though the quote is often misused, this right here is the exact scenario Gabe Newell was talking about. This is piracy as a service problem. This is piracy because Nintendo refuses to let us buy the product. Nintendo's so scared to compete with themselves that they literally lose money refusing to offer the product that customers want to pay for. A product which has already been made, and simply needs to be ported.
A lot of people ask me why I hate Nintendo so much but love playing their games. I hate Nintendo as a company because while they make amazing games they notoriously treat their most dedicated fans like trash. I want everyone to check this video out if they get the chance.
There is no such thing as a good game company. Every good game you see being released nowadays is made off of the abuse of its developers. Even the good ones like Metroid Dread and Fallout: New Vegas suffered hugely from their respective team’s awful treatment of their employees.
Piracy of video games is completely ethical.
@@weggygaygay9940 I mean Sega treats their fans amazingly
literally anyone:
/has fun
nintendo:
"how fucking dare you"
another great video. i always love hearing the stories and tribulations of melee as an esport, even if i've never played the game competitively myself. i've become so invested in this community through the smash doc and other great videos (like yours and turndownforwalt's), so thank you.
I like the Jon Bois-style editing. I don't know if that's directly where you got your inspiration from but I absolutely *love* the editing.
It really does seem like Nintendo does not see Smash as a series of 6 games but instead as a single game they update every decade or so. Newest update out? Be a good Nintendrone and throw the old version in the trash, forget it ever existed, and don't you dare change anything. Because it's better to die of a preventable disease than use our product in a way we don't approve of. And don't even think about caring about a glitch we have no intention of recreating and will actively make sure it does not happen again thanks to all the focus it got.
20:12 "Five years of work"
Oh you don't even know.
It was not 5, it was basically 10
I was even following the project for about 8 of those years, I remember being a young kid and being ecstatic when the first demo of the game released. I was playing back when Metroid: Confrontation, a tech demo showcasing features AM2R would have, was still being _updated_.
This was an _EXTREMELY_ long project in the making
Snuffed out a day after release.
I'm not mad or anything, just wanted to make a correction on how much more brutal this actually was, thank you so much for sharing the story of AM2R, I'm so happy to be a part of that community and get to experience to fantastic updates they've been making for the game, in spite of nintendo's repeated efforts to ruin the fun.
*F IS FOR FRIENDS THAT SAY F*CK NINTENDO*
Taking down AM2R is like filing copyright charges against your little brother that redrew something you made because he liked it so much
AM2R was likely caught when they were doing a routine trademark sweep/update before SR came out.
Probably wouls not have been DMCAd if SR wasnt developed...
Nintendo will literally never stop me from playing pm in all its unique forms.
*I do wish they'd stop trying though
4:25 that Earthbound music was timed perfectly 😬 Great editing!