To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/Wolfgang/ . The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription. Correction: The Ryzen 3600 die shot at 3:30 has the "IO" and "CCX" labels swapped (thanks @Weyzar !) ASPM Tuning Script: gist.github.com/baybal/b499fc5811a7073df0c03ab8da4be904 Needs to be changed according to your PCIe devices before running! Use this command to see what devices support ASPM: sudo lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
When you've started sponsored block I thought you gonna tell us about your addiction))). Maybe it was the tone, or the music, or something else, but It was unexpected)) No offense please, I really like what you do.
yea! mee too - it made me thinking I should reuse an old haswell pc I have laying around - maybe it will use a bit more in idle than my current ASROCK j3455 , but it will cost me nothing, so...
Have you guys really seen his video? He's buying part after part with almost no (power) improvement. Nice for testing and making a YT video, but how well is that as an investment?
Benchmarks I'd like to see for this system, and the others as well are; 1. ZFS resilvering. (use some standardized drive size and layout like 3-wide z1 of some cheap 4tb drives or whatever you can get your hand on.) 2. Your typical DB & FS benchmarks, Seq. I/O, Rand. I/O and such. 3. In general also displaying the benchmarks of all previous builds alongside the current results with perf/W and perf/$
I love your channel. It got me hyped enough to fix my data chaos and now I'm almost done with my take on a NAS build based on the N5105 motherboard. I'll definitely stay tuned for that N100 video as this could be the perfect board for my off-site backup in a different city. Keep it up!
@@namesurname4666 I used the 850W instead because it was available at a discount on Amazon the time I looked for parts. Its Efficiency is most likely worse but nothing too crazy. Whenever there is a better PSU for my system with less wattage I'll swap it and use the 850W on my modified PS4 Pro.
I like your low power builds. It insipred me to build a homserver out of a Asrock Desk Mini x300. I did 3D print a modified housing (printables x300 case) in order to add the thick 5TB 2.5" HDD. I do not need more disk space. I picked a Ryzen 5600G and switched the power supply to a GaN 65W usb c one. So the board gets 20V (instead of 19) through usb c power delivery. Pretty cool! I actually did not measure the power consumtion yet. But I will do a research about your mentioned power top tricks. I remember the power draw to fairly under 15W but don't remember if the drives were connected. Once I found time to measure the power consumtion, I can let you know. The N100 build will be alse pretty decent and might be way under 10W with 2 HDD drives.
Nice! I'm actually running Asrock Desk Mini x300 + 5600G + 1TB SSD and I'm getting as low as 8w on the default PSU, although it was a stock Debian with nothing running and nothing was connected to it, except LAN cable.
@@darekmistrz4364 This is quiet easy. Check out "USB Power Delivery". Basicly the protocol supports different Voltages like 5V, 9V, 12V, 15 and 20V. The laptops and barebone pc's often demand about 19V, altough some might desire 12V. The IC (integrated circuit) on those boards do support a larger input voltage range. Let's say 16 - 24V. They will regulate the voltage to their needs afterwards. So if you feed the Asrock X300 with 20V instead of 19V, there is absolutely no Problem. The charger needs to support power delivery. If I remember correctly, the charger try all different voltages until the client (the Asrock X300) is satisfied. Or the client directly tells the charger what voltage it wants. So I only had to buy a USB C to 5.5mm cable from china. He explains electronics very well and it might help you understand USB Power Delivery ua-cam.com/video/OwAZqJ4wpJg/v-deo.html
I converted my previous desktop sporting a 5900x to my new virtualisation host. I run it at the 65w eco mode. It's pretty awesome considering my previous virtualisation host was running on an intel Nuc.
@@Nonstopie yes I've checked and it's ever so slightly lower, but it's virtually the same. But it's pretty low anyway. If very low idling power draw is what you're after, you might want to check out those mini PCs that are all the rage now. They're pretty cool as long as you don't need lots of IO or full size PCI-e slots.
@@roccociccone597 Yeah i was just wondering because i did a similiar thing where i moved my 3700x from my desktop to my server. My idle was somewhere in the 35-40watt range without spinning drives and 1 nvme. I havent really bothered changing around any bios settings yet though.
@@roccociccone597 Did you have to disable C-States? My 5900x will randomly hang when not doing anything, after disabling c-states it works and same goes for Eco-Mode. CPU is not stable when using Eco-mode. It's only stable after I set the proper PPT, TDC, and EDC after testing what gets me the highest frequency.
@@Nonstopie Eco and stock have the same idle power consumption, my CPU is always consuming 47-50W and if you have c-states enabled it can go down to 35W but it's not stable at all with c-states enabled. AMD dropped the ball with not figuring out c-states for Zen 3.
My website hosting server uses just 6.5W in idle. It's a used HP office PC with an i5 9500 and 8GB RAM (original PSU has platinum efficiency). Got it around 2 years ago for £150.
@@xavifernandez1542my Lenovo m920x with an i7 9th Gen 2 SATA SSDs and 2 nvme SSDs is drawing about 10w idle on proxmox running more than 10 containers. Comes with the stock 135w Power brick. Awesome little box! Definitely recommend this tiny 1L PCs
Omg im so jealous! 😂 This is really great power consumption! Mine is consuming 25W without drives and about 40W with them spun up. The only pro is I've got it dirt cheap
I discovered exactly the same low idle wattage with both of the 8 core Ryzen APU's - 4750G Pro and 5700G - both draw 7-8 watts at idle on an Aorus B550 ITX motherboard. The 5700X idles at 30 watts, the 5950X at 40 watts - all on same B550 motherboard. As you pointed out only the Pro models alllow allow ECC memory. Gruess aus Florida!
Thank you for your videos. Recently I bought an HP Prodesk 600 G4 with i3 8100 CPU. With powertop --autotune and other steps (~HDD spin down), the idle consumption is 8-9W !! This computer has a 180W platinum power supply. And it costs about 120-140 EUR on the used market (8-16GB RAM, 250GB SSD). Also it has a huge disadvantage: only one 3.5" drive bay. But it's enough for me.
Fantastic Video as always. For your Question. A geat benchmark for a home server is fileflows. It transcodes videos in the "Archive" using so called flows. The best part is that it is super easy to switch between software and hardware transcode. and in contrast to tdarr and similar projects priorizes quality over speed. In My experience a transcode to HEVC on GPU is a great test of the overall CPU power.
Something to note about those FSP (Fortron) blocks. They can do a lot. If such a unit as your is still in good condition, it operates well when loaded at 80% or more. How long will it keep working under heavy load is questionable, since these are old blocks, but from what I have seen, these are very stable, relatively realiable units, with protections and stuff. Anyone interested, look at how many stickers they have next to the main one. The more the better. I have yet to see one with an 80+ rating.
14:05 a good benchmark would be any kind of performance measurable workload like a geekbench or similar with a few scenarios like stock, lowest possible clocks and artificially power limited to some common wattage like 15W, 20W, 35W or whatever your subscribers usually think is decent for their tasks
@WolfgangsChannel oh cool I didn't know you're checking all the comments. Yes synthetic benchmarks... I too can't really think of anything other than that, but i think limiting CPU's potential in a few different ways is really close to what people could do to get some power savings and still know what performance to expect
i was in the process of building a similar system but due to space limitation, i bought a terramaster. it idles at 15watts compared to my previous NAS which was 22-25watts. of course i now have NAS rated drives and i run UnRaid instead of TrueNAS. i do have the HDD spin down after not being used after a hour. i have two m.2 2tb’s for my caching. i think at the end, it’s roughly the same as my watts increase a bit more while using the HDD. but i’m happy that i’m getting twice the TB space in a smaller form factor.
terramaster is a great choice if you don't need more than 2 (or 4 for bigger model) spinning drives - combined with 2x nvme it's perfect for my needs. I'm just waiting for them to switch to N100 - it will be a sweet spot with speed/power consumption. Did you get Fx-423 or Fx-223?
I really enjoy videos like this, thanks! I recently found your channel and used what I learned to retool my Minecraft server and brought it from 20 watts down to 10 watts while players are logged in and playing! That might be a cool video for you to tackle since it is a light duty 24/7 use case and oddly just wants tons of RAM and a *fast* single core to keep the game loop running at 20 ticks per second. I picked Intel G3258 since they are so cheap and can easily overclock to 4.0GHz. I just bought two off eBay for $9 each and got it up to 4.0GHz stable and it barely touched my idle power draw!!!
@@muellerhans an ASRock mobo, a Samsung EVO 850 SSD, and importantly a PicoPSU 90 power supply. Oh yeah and a big Noctua cpu cooler that never has to run its fan. There is a 110mm case fan that also never runs.
@@muellerhans I'm playing Nomifactory CeU and late in the game when thousands and thousands of machines are running, the power goes up to like 16 watts when I'm logged in. Having thousands of ticking tile entities increases the needed power a little bit. Still minuscule!
Been running a Ryzen PRO 5750G with ECC as secondary home server. So far it's only occasionally been running some game servers, but once I finally get around to investing in new hard drives, it will eventually replace my old Opteron based server in NAS role as well. Neat chips but honestly right now it would make more sense to get 7000 series Ryzen which all come with integrated graphics, more PCIE lanes and faster gen 4 vs gen 3. Also despite having integrated graphics, they actually all seem to retain ECC support (also depends on motherboard) so you don't have to hunt for PRO models.
@@EmotionalWeather I daily drive 7950X on my desktop. With bit of an undervolt and underclock it runs cool and quiet. For home server use I would certainly consider something like 7900 non-X which runs at much lower TDP rating.
@@ruojautuma1 Doesn‘t matter, I need to get idle use below like 15W. Don‘t need high performance. And it might be possible with the 7000 series, but there are not enough builds out there yet.
I recently built a server/ pc with an xeon e5 2680v4 and an ati hd5850 (rx5700xt on the way), i just chnaged the power supply setup today (i had 2 psus because i needed one more pcie 6 pin connector for the gpu) now I have a 600W 80+ bronze psu that i got for 15€ (5€ for the psu, 10€ for the corsair psu modular cables i modified to work with the sharkoon psu)
For less powerful system I would suggest looking for i3 6th gen office email machine. These machines are being dumped because they do not support win 11, so you can have one for as low as 30 EUR. I use one as router/nvr/homeassitant server it is now at ~80 CPU load avg (6th gen has AI acceleration too which is eating around 60 proc.) but all of that draws only 35 W, so I am pretty happy.
As for PSU in this PC - OEM PSUs for inexpensive office prebuilds are rarely going through certification process, which costs money. They are usually quite efficient, often placing in the range of bronze/silver/gold, which is usually backed up by manufacturers internal testing with results available in documentation. Full certification process is usually made for retail market or higher grade professional units, like for workstations and servers, where you can add the cost a lot easier. FSP is a well-known brand manufacturing for OEMs and under their own brand. They have a great Hydro series PSUs.
Unfortunately, the 80+ certification usually doesn't correlate with idle power efficiency. It only measures efficiency at certain load percentages, usually starting at 20%. A very efficient storage server can idle at 20-40W, which is usually less than 10% of a low-wattage PSU
@@WolfgangsChannel Agree. I've seen some 80GOLD PSUs that were absolutely terrible at 0-40W range. My comment was more in the general direction, that PSUs that don't have official certification can be decent, especially if prebuilt comes from a reputable manufacturer, because they usually pay more attention to this part, as is can cause a headache in the future and expensive service calls for manufacturers.
My home server costed 65 euro's totally. 49 euro's for the system with 4 GB RAM and a 250 GB harddrive and 8 GB extra RAM for 26 euro's. Excluding monitor and keyboard. It's a HP / Compaq 8100 Elite SFF with a Intel i5 650 proc. It has no fans and is totally silent.
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I'm waiting for N100 based NAS test. I'm also curious how behave N300 and N305, but sadly motherboards with these specific chips are not available yet.
Dunno why you almost find nothing about N100 systems either. The all-in-one boards are available und the price is mighty fine in my opinion. I got me an Asrock N100M uATX for my server as it is a board which supports 32 GiB RAM. It is running multiple docker containers (pi-hole among other things), a webserver with nextcloud, as well as a samba and a maria instance... It breaks no sweat... My very old i7 36xx was much less responsive than this N100 CPU. But, you should just add an active fan onto the cooler as this thing can go up to 80-90°C when under full boost. With an average 60mm fan, you will get around 40°C idle and maybe up to 60°C load. A nice case to combine it with, is the Chieftech IX-06B and its special PSU (you need to buy both, a regular PSU won't fit). This is a bench upload from me, geekbench -> v6/cpu/1573133 I am actually pretty pleased with it.
Did something similar to this very recently, but with a $50 mobo+cpu (some intel celeron) combo instead and just shucked it into an old rig's existing case+psu. Got it down to 22w~ idle with 3 3.5in HDDs, 1 2.5in HDD, 1 SSD, and 1 old fan consuming 3-5w on its own. It's nowhere near as powerful as this Ryzen though but gets everything I need it to do done.
@@8bit239 Hello, the exact board is called "ASRock J3455-ITX Motherboard" ; it comes with the integrated Intel® Quad-Core J3455 processor. The weirdest part with this setup was the fact it needed laptop memory to function, thankfully I had a lot of dead laptops around to borrow memory from.
I didn't know I needed it. Now I need it xD My current NAS (running of a striped Dell Optilex 9020) consumes 70W (70 fuck*ng watts, around 150€/year) even with a platinium grade PSU...
At 7th of April 2024 I spotted a 4650G processor for €121 retail. So still not a bad deal for a complete pc. Looking into replacing my Haswell board if it dies. It looks interesting!
Thanks Wolfgang, I rarely miss your videos, always super interesting. Especially like the homeserver stuff. This rig looks like a great deal, however involves a lot of tinkering. What do you make of the recent-ish (or older even) mini-pcs like Optiplex and the like ?
I got myself a minisforum UM790Pro mini pc as my home server solution. it idles at 8-9 watts and is extremely powerful and super silent at the same time... in general the lenovo tiny pcs aren't that great for anything storage related since they only have 1 sata and 1 nvme I believe. otherwise cheap but they're also kind of noisy sometimes.
Hey! I am doing sth similar! I am running a 2200g in my proxmox server. ~25 w tdp, cooled via a passive cpu cooler and a gpu which i passthrough to a lxc container for my jellyfin server! ❤
MY servers idle around 13-15 watts plugged in and running. I also found that the PSU is critical in this. I normal crap PSU is so inefficient your idles will be in the 30 watts range. A good Platinum or Titanium PSU will knock that down to 13/15 watts or so...
Atm the 5650g pro goes for 150eur. Also a nice option/upgrade Dont forget pro cpus support ecc formally (most mb vendors advertise this) which makes them good for nas as well! In the past i did encounter issues with iommu (breaking as a whole) when updating to a non native bios to support new ryzen generation
I was wondering how this setup compares with the out of the box Aostar wtr pro. One obvious benefit about your setup is the BMC and generally more ways to grow.
Good vid. Where do i find instructions on how to install the AMD P-State EPP drivers for Linux 6.3 as i want to improve efficiency on my Proxmox 8 server? You also mentioned enabling aspm for all pcie devices- i already have aspm enabled in bios, do i need to do additional configs in the Linux system?
Отличное видео! Отдельное спасибо за субтитры) Тоже присматриваюсь к amd из за поддержки ecc памяти и его работы на большинстве десктопных плат. Думал вам про них написать, а тут ваше видео вышло) Вообще еще интересны процессоры PRO 5650G (в два раза больше кэш, архитектура cezanne) или варианты 4c\8t, некоторые из них реально купить oem (80-100$)
@@ariffinsetya oh, that's...a lot. But is it because of 9 hdds? I'm considering building a truenas with 4350G + asrock B550M Pro4, do you think it'll push down the idle power much?
@@ksasea i dont really tune the cpu at all, it's bone stock, my smart plug register 60kwh last month, plus the ups it's connected to, so around 83w (nas+psu), yeah my 10+ hdd does impact it quite a lot i think. 4350g, already less watt use, and if you use less hdd, should have lower idle also. based on some review, my hdd each use 5-7 w idle, that's already 45w..
@@ariffinsetya tks so much for your insight. BTW, one more question plz. Do you think a strong cpu is important for a truenas system? I'm at a dilemma of chosing whether 4650G or 4350G. As my main purpose is just backing up, storing files, games, and more importantly, playing those games directly without redownloading, I'm wondering if 4350G is enough for these purpose. The main thing I should concern is the read/write speed between my nas and my pc, right? Like 10gbs lan, big ram, big cache,...etc.? If 4350G is ok, I'll go with it since it uses less idle power consumption.
Awesome to see how much PC one can get for money nowadays. I don't need a home server but good to know I just recently build my SoftDev System with: i5-13500, 2x 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz on a Mini ITX B760M Board for about 620€ in a mini PC self built package.
Thanks Wolfgang for the tip! I bought a 4650g pro used on eBay and replaced my 2700 on my b450 board. I'm using unraid but cannot get under 30W with all disks and SSDs spun down. It is a lot less than the 2700 used. However it seems unraid does not support the higher C-states :( Again thanks for the tip and best wishes from the Niederrhein:)
Hey Wolfgang, please do a homeserver build in one of the Asrock Deskmini/Deskmeet boxes, or even Jupiter. Intel or AMD doesn't matter, Deskmini comes with 2 Sata ports + power, and no PCIE slot, so only the M.2s. Deskmeet is a fully fledged itx system, with case and PSU, PCIE slot and loads of connectivity. I'm seriously considering either for a small NAS build or even a home server, and since they're popular - especially the Deskmini, plenty of 3D printed case mods exist to improve cooling and adding expansions. Thanks again for investigating Ryzen for low power home server build, keep on going with low power/efficiency builds! Homeservers in EU are kinda redundant if it costs more to run the thing in electricity only per year, compared to equivalent cloud services, power efficiency is key.
This system is probably twice as fast as mine, but I'm still really happy with my PC with i7-6700 that I bought (used) for 100€ which still works flawlessly😅
This may work for me. I'm looking for a power efficient cpu build a 2U server with. All this server will run is windows server 2022, NordVpn, Qbittorent, Sonarr, Radarr, and Jacket. The collected "linux ISO's" will be moved over to my media server so nothing will be stored on it long term. One M.2 boot volume and a second drive for temp storage (read a place to store the downloads until they complete)is all I need.
fun fact, the stock psu is an fsp, fsp is a really big power supply OEM, thei psu are well built with good capacitor for the ripple suppression and a good voltage regulation even on their entry level psu's that are group regulated and not DC-DC. (DC-DC is a better regulation for voltages than the Group regulated one's) but the point is, a pico psu base his ripple suppression from the power supply that you are using, and if you buy a cheap unit, probably the ripple are not good for your component's (motherboard, ssd and hdd are really sensitive to that parameter). for example this fsp unit is better than old corsair Vs orange series and it's a littlebit betther than the grey series, it's a way better than the old MWE white v1 from coolermaster, V2 is actually pretty good becouse coolermaster changed the OEM and used better capacitor and dc dc conversion. there is a test of a cheap fsp unit from FALCO75, with a variable load and the oscilloscope to read the ripple noises. (sorry for my english, i'm italian and i have not a really good english)
Hi, This is some awesome power-tech, half of which i don't understand cause i ve been lazy to learn anything about networks and servers... but what i do like is efficiency and design, and boy this chasis on 16:50 looks awsome. Is it possible to get its name ?
I kept looking for a newer Dual CPU Xeon system as I have 2 older servers that for some reason don't have native PCI-E slots in them sadly. But the more I did the numbers, the less it made sense to keep using these when even a consumer board with a Ryzen CPU would beat them out handily doing A.I. stuff with the M40 GPU cards. The only real plus is that the cases can take these cards and keep them cool, but I still would have to limit myself on the amount of GPU's I could fit inside. So something like a Mining Rig / Case would work better. But as I keep doing the math? It just makes sense to purchase new hardware as its just so many leaps and bounds ahead of the older stuff of even a few years ago. And right now seems to be the best time to get into AM-5 as what it can do per clock cycle and with the amount of cores it has is staggering. Even the AM-4 systems still pack a pretty good punch. The Only reason why I would stick with an older platform is that that DDR-3 Memory kits are so cheap, getting 1TB of RAM is even affordable. I guess the next hot ticket would be to get a Old DDR-3 ECC memory moudles with some kind of riser and use that as a massive scratch drive using it as iSCSI / NAS array for video scrubbing. But its only me, so no need for something like that. Great Video btw!
Does this system support ECC properly or does it support running ECC memory in NON-ECC mode. I see this a lot with AMD boards where it says it will run unbuffered ECC memory but only in non-ECC mode. Edit: Okay never mind. You answered this question pretty well around 4:00.
Intel refurbished PCs are also going down in price and up in availability at this point. Similar-priced refurbished models have i5-8400 or so, which would also make a really good home server. I'd suggest adding RAM, though, since 8GB RAM is anaemic for some server tasks now.
My ryzen 4500u laptop uses very little power. But I am very happy with it can do. I've look for anything else with that Processors. The only thing I can find are mini computer. Which means only one sata or none at all.
I used i7-9700 for my home server and with 2 sdd, 2 hdds and LSI Megaraid ir rarely goes over 50-60W for the whole system while serving invidious, nextcloud and a lot more. If I went all ssd, with no hardware RAID controller I could probably save another 30W.
I built a dedicated home file and backup server a few years ago with a Core i3 10100 running Windows 10. I have not checked its power draw at idle as it doesn't matter much to me.
If you had to pick something brand new, that is actually available what would you choose, for low consumption, without being poor? Plex 4k playback, NAS, and other various stuff. Currently rocking a 5820k with a Quadro P2000, MSI X99-A SLI PLUS, 16gb ram and it consumes around 60-65w. For a budget around 500 euro.
I’d be careful with the latter suggestion as the 3.5” bay will only take HDDs with 6 mount points. I know that Seagate had some 1TB HDDs with 6 mount points years ago. 6TB may be the highest capacity these days.
Thx for your informative breakdown! I'm currently waiting for my Asrock N100M for my first ever NAS so I'm looking forward to your video with the ITX version.
Thanks for the information. Just for data on what #'s I pay attention to (other than the super-important power/cost you cover well here).... I typically copy thousands of pictures between drives and over the network with my home server. I also dump compressed drive images to it for critical devices on my network. Also, since Apple has changed their image format.... the home server tends to end up getting tasked with converting those in huge batches to JPG. (I tend to use thin clients and laptops, so transcoding and backup tends to get done on the home server--even though the laptops would be faster... I just kickoff a script and the laptop leaves with me or gets shutdown while the server chugs away for sometimes hours) So, USB throughput for external/cold backups, network throughput for large files (10-50gb) and small files (hundreds of K to MB), and local throughput for hot/onine backups. I run plex too.... but even ancient HW does well for HD streams these days.
Interesting. About your future video: I burnt myself once with low-power celeron once. Power efficient does not mean it has enough power. It depends what you throw at it, but for me if something does not require power, RPI can do it, if it does, some USFF PC with skylake/kabylake core i5 are very power efficient, they just consume power under the load, but for home server, it might be a few minutes per day. But difference between celeron and i5 is that task might take either 3s or 10-15s and that's difference between fine and hardly bearable.
You probably underestimate how slow RPi 4 is. It's slower than something like an Atom x5-Z8350, and that CPU is more than 5x slower than the Intel N100. And that's an entry level Atom-level SKU. I've ran an i3-6100 as my home server for years and it's more than enough for my use cases. As long as it has a PCIe slot and enough SATA ports, I'm good
Oh! Is the C6 states thing why my Linux server froze at random? I just bought a network-controlled power outlet and set it to cycle the power if it stopped responding to pings. Reboot times were fast enough that the downtime was irrelevant.
If you plan on running a media server in a VM, AMD APUs aren't really good for that as it's pretty much impossible to pass the integrated GPU through. However, this being a normal computer form factor, you can always add a discrete GPU to it.
A make or break it benchmark for me is an sabnzbd repair and unpack of a 4k uhhh home... Video.... From usenet.... When rebuilding my plex library after restarting everything because of dumb reason (alot of TB to download nonstop). It will take 4 hours to repair a single file....
Simpler and cheaper solution if you are mostly using your "home server" as a media player: buy external usb 3.0 3tb 2.5" hdd for 60 euros or 2tb ssd for 100 euro. Plug it into your tv or PC and transfer it via wifi all over (personaly I don't use wifi at home).
@@WolfgangsChannel Got it on a discount, 149€. Couldn't pass. I mean, I did not need it, but the price. Figured 12 year warranty will make it up. Well, first unit lasted for 2 weeks... I'm not sure which year my RM650x is, but I also have 2018 RM750x, which does idle a bit higher than my RM650x.
looks like it standard ATX parts as well so if that case isn't enough for your needs and you have an old case sittign around maybe worth swapping it over and scrapping the case.
I went with an 160W PicoPSU and an 120W (12V10A) DC Laptop Charger. (Actually exactly the components mentioned in this video). The system crashes under all core load with 110W at the wall. The manufacturer of the PicoPSU says this is to be expected, since only 70-90W are available on the 12V rail. So I am pretty much SoL here since my motherboard doesn't allow tweaking the cTDP of the 4650G Pro. Have to replace the entire system with an SFX PSU, which kinda sucks.
@@WolfgangsChannel Very helpful, thanks! Some does not apply because I'm running TrueNAS Scale and wanna stay there. But I will definitely keep this handy for my other older Ryzen systems. However, good news! The option for cTDP was just very very hidden without any documentation in the manual or UEFI itself. Buried in the 4th submenu of AMD Common Settings with several "No help string provided" options and the help of a lot of old forum posts I actually found that using specific hex values in "NBIO SMU Custom Flags" sets the cTDP to 35W. Took me 4 days of looking through AMD documentation and forums, but it finally works! Total system draw from the wall under full load is 75W now, which still causes the CPU fan to slow down using DC, but it doesn't crash anymore. (All attached drives and expansion cards run through the 12V rail after all). That's a win in my book. 13W idle with 4x NVMe and 2.5G NIC is awesome. I bought the 4650G with a semi-broken motherboard for 80€ on Kleinanzeigen, which is honestly a steal for that system. Wouldn't have done it without your knowledge and this video. Thank you a lot!
@@WolfgangsChannel It's really restricted tho. All system configs get rebuilt from their proprietary configuration on boot. I didn't even manage to apply some ZFS tunables, that would have solved the problem for me as well, since changing said configs as root intentionally yields I/O errors. Installing anything on the host (not within Docker containers that is) is pretty much unsupported. Coming from CentOS, the restricted nature of TrueNAS Scale was quite surprising. But I really like some of its feature set and ease of use. Thought about switching to plain Debian or Alma, but this is resolved, so I'm fine with it.
Thanks for video. Would have liked to see you add whatever the best bang for buck video card is for transcoding and compare power usage and transcode FPS with that.
I really want to see that n100 build, I was thinking use on the m.2 the sata m.2 adapter jmb585, the pcie x16 the pcie sata jmb585 and the pcie x1 a 2.5gbe i225, totaling to 12 sata and 2.5gbe lan?
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I'm planning on doing this with the Asus N100 motherboard.
Isnt it possible to spin the disks up one by one like old SCSI did on Bus-Scan if you had it configured that way? You may have to buy an SAS HBA and some SAS HDDs but the Powerdraw on Bootup would be less - I guess?! ^^
The Corsair PSU is the wrong one. Personally i run such a Server with a 350W oder 400W PSU. This System has a Powerload of maximum 250 Watt. The System runs most of the time below 30 Watts. Which means below the 10% treshhold of PSU Certification. Even the Corsair will drop down to 80% efficiency when it runs at 5% and will not reach peak performance as it would need about 260-270 Watts. To reach it's 93%. If you take a be Quiet ! pure Power 11 400 Watt Gold Plus PSU with a 92% Efficency, you will be over 5% and closer to 10%. And they relativly come cheap at 55€ . As i said i have a quality 350w Silver, which is sadly discontinued, that would be the perfect PSU for this system. Some reserve for Aging and a 10% of 35w. Ran my Old Homeserver for over a Decade.
I would disagree. Small power supplies went almost extinct as a category with the introduction of more power hungry CPUs and GPUs. As a result, most of the
@@WolfgangsChannel And yet this table shows exactly it: The standard 80 plus Coolermaster MWE 400 is nearly as good as the Corsair 550x. How about the Be Quiet Pure Power 400 Gold Plus? I know that there are no longer any 350w Gold out there, But there are 400W Gold out there.But when you can live with 2 Screws or an adapter plate a TFX Gold with 300W is avaible. Using one for my selfbuild Ryzen 5 5600G "Trashcan" PC. Be Quiet TFX Power 3 300 Gold got an efficiency Rating of 82.7% for 10%. For again 65€.
@@WolfgangsChannel Falls YT die andere Antwort löschen sollte, bei hardwareschotte eingeben ... momentan liegt man aber wieder bei rund 150 Euro. Oder bei Jacob de, den Laden kenn ich, dauert zwar aktuell etwa eine Woche, aber Preis bei 112 Euro.
Naja, 150€ ist das doppelte vom Ryzen 5 3600 - nicht wirklich ein gutes Deal (habe ich auch in meinem Video erwähnt - 4:59). Mit dem Prebuilt bekommst du den kompletten Rechner, und das für nur 100€ oben drauf.
@@WolfgangsChannel Ging auch nur darum, dass du erwähnt hattest, wie teuer der 5er wäre und das es ihn inzwischen für knapp über 100 Euro gibt. Hab mir gestern noch direkt einen bei Jacob bestellt, für knapp über 112 Euro, soll spätestens Freitag hier sein - hab aktuell einen 5 5600G, aber der lässt sich nicht wirklich zum Sparen animieren.
Würde ich nicht machen - 5600G soll genauso sparsam wie der 4650G sein, da sie beide auf den Laptop-Chips basiert sind. Wenn dein System mit dem 5600G nicht sparsam ist, würde es leider mit dem 4650G nicht besser. Dein Problem liegt wohl woanders im Rechner (Mainboard, PCIe-Geräte, usw.)
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Correction: The Ryzen 3600 die shot at 3:30 has the "IO" and "CCX" labels swapped (thanks @Weyzar !)
ASPM Tuning Script: gist.github.com/baybal/b499fc5811a7073df0c03ab8da4be904
Needs to be changed according to your PCIe devices before running!
Use this command to see what devices support ASPM: sudo lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
When you've started sponsored block I thought you gonna tell us about your addiction))). Maybe it was the tone, or the music, or something else, but It was unexpected)) No offense please, I really like what you do.
Awesome, I love the fact that you can focus on getting the most out of your money, and not blasting a hole in the wallet.
yea! mee too - it made me thinking I should reuse an old haswell pc I have laying around - maybe it will use a bit more in idle than my current ASROCK j3455 , but it will cost me nothing, so...
Have you guys really seen his video? He's buying part after part with almost no (power) improvement. Nice for testing and making a YT video, but how well is that as an investment?
Almost as though 'testing and making a YT video' is the whole point 😉
@@Mr.TonTop Exactly why I subscribed :D
@@marcinneuman8283but probably has more juice :)
Benchmarks I'd like to see for this system, and the others as well are;
1. ZFS resilvering. (use some standardized drive size and layout like 3-wide z1 of some cheap 4tb drives or whatever you can get your hand on.)
2. Your typical DB & FS benchmarks, Seq. I/O, Rand. I/O and such.
3. In general also displaying the benchmarks of all previous builds alongside the current results with perf/W and perf/$
I love your channel. It got me hyped enough to fix my data chaos and now I'm almost done with my take on a NAS build based on the N5105 motherboard.
I'll definitely stay tuned for that N100 video as this could be the perfect board for my off-site backup in a different city.
Keep it up!
same, are you using picopsu or you found the power supply?
@@namesurname4666 I used the 850W instead because it was available at a discount on Amazon the time I looked for parts. Its Efficiency is most likely worse but nothing too crazy. Whenever there is a better PSU for my system with less wattage I'll swap it and use the 850W on my modified PS4 Pro.
I'm also debating whether to build my first nas around N100. Seeing dirt cheap deals on embedded motherboards.
I like your low power builds. It insipred me to build a homserver out of a Asrock Desk Mini x300. I did 3D print a modified housing (printables x300 case) in order to add the thick 5TB 2.5" HDD. I do not need more disk space. I picked a Ryzen 5600G and switched the power supply to a GaN 65W usb c one. So the board gets 20V (instead of 19) through usb c power delivery. Pretty cool!
I actually did not measure the power consumtion yet. But I will do a research about your mentioned power top tricks. I remember the power draw to fairly under 15W but don't remember if the drives were connected. Once I found time to measure the power consumtion, I can let you know.
The N100 build will be alse pretty decent and might be way under 10W with 2 HDD drives.
How are you powering a PC with USB-C?
Nice! I'm actually running Asrock Desk Mini x300 + 5600G + 1TB SSD and I'm getting as low as 8w on the default PSU, although it was a stock Debian with nothing running and nothing was connected to it, except LAN cable.
@@darekmistrz4364 This is quiet easy. Check out "USB Power Delivery". Basicly the protocol supports different Voltages like 5V, 9V, 12V, 15 and 20V. The laptops and barebone pc's often demand about 19V, altough some might desire 12V.
The IC (integrated circuit) on those boards do support a larger input voltage range. Let's say 16 - 24V. They will regulate the voltage to their needs afterwards. So if you feed the Asrock X300 with 20V instead of 19V, there is absolutely no Problem.
The charger needs to support power delivery. If I remember correctly, the charger try all different voltages until the client (the Asrock X300) is satisfied. Or the client directly tells the charger what voltage it wants.
So I only had to buy a USB C to 5.5mm cable from china.
He explains electronics very well and it might help you understand USB Power Delivery
ua-cam.com/video/OwAZqJ4wpJg/v-deo.html
@@ivansorokin2199Ah dude, so now I must measure my system today. I will post it here.
Power it via USB-C ? did you just mod/buy a cable from usb to 5.5mm barrow jack?
I just love your budget friendly videos and the amount of effort you put in those, that's really inspiring me to try to this as well at home.
I converted my previous desktop sporting a 5900x to my new virtualisation host. I run it at the 65w eco mode. It's pretty awesome considering my previous virtualisation host was running on an intel Nuc.
Have you checked if eco mode even does anything for idle power consumption? i've heard its mostly a no from pretty much everywhere i look
@@Nonstopie yes I've checked and it's ever so slightly lower, but it's virtually the same. But it's pretty low anyway. If very low idling power draw is what you're after, you might want to check out those mini PCs that are all the rage now. They're pretty cool as long as you don't need lots of IO or full size PCI-e slots.
@@roccociccone597 Yeah i was just wondering because i did a similiar thing where i moved my 3700x from my desktop to my server. My idle was somewhere in the 35-40watt range without spinning drives and 1 nvme. I havent really bothered changing around any bios settings yet though.
@@roccociccone597 Did you have to disable C-States? My 5900x will randomly hang when not doing anything, after disabling c-states it works and same goes for Eco-Mode. CPU is not stable when using Eco-mode. It's only stable after I set the proper PPT, TDC, and EDC after testing what gets me the highest frequency.
@@Nonstopie Eco and stock have the same idle power consumption, my CPU is always consuming 47-50W and if you have c-states enabled it can go down to 35W but it's not stable at all with c-states enabled. AMD dropped the ball with not figuring out c-states for Zen 3.
My website hosting server uses just 6.5W in idle. It's a used HP office PC with an i5 9500 and 8GB RAM (original PSU has platinum efficiency). Got it around 2 years ago for £150.
That‘s impressive! How many watts is your PSU rated for?
@@xavifernandez1542
PSU is 180W. To get all specs just search for
HP ProDesk 400 G6 Small Form Factor Business.
@@xavifernandez1542my Lenovo m920x with an i7 9th Gen 2 SATA SSDs and 2 nvme SSDs is drawing about 10w idle on proxmox running more than 10 containers. Comes with the stock 135w Power brick.
Awesome little box! Definitely recommend this tiny 1L PCs
Omg im so jealous! 😂
This is really great power consumption! Mine is consuming 25W without drives and about 40W with them spun up. The only pro is I've got it dirt cheap
I discovered exactly the same low idle wattage with both of the 8 core Ryzen APU's - 4750G Pro and 5700G - both draw 7-8 watts at idle on an Aorus B550 ITX motherboard. The 5700X idles at 30 watts, the 5950X at 40 watts - all on same B550 motherboard. As you pointed out only the Pro models alllow allow ECC memory. Gruess aus Florida!
Hi, did it draw 8 watts all the system from the wall ?
@@ncarrasco2006 I do not have any equipment to measure wattage at the wall.
Thank you for your videos. Recently I bought an HP Prodesk 600 G4 with i3 8100 CPU. With powertop --autotune and other steps (~HDD spin down), the idle consumption is 8-9W !! This computer has a 180W platinum power supply. And it costs about 120-140 EUR on the used market (8-16GB RAM, 250GB SSD). Also it has a huge disadvantage: only one 3.5" drive bay. But it's enough for me.
can you tell me if the PSU fan is loud ? does it turn off when idle ?
Hi Wolfgang, love your channel man. Keep the good shit coming!
Fantastic Video as always.
For your Question. A geat benchmark for a home server is fileflows.
It transcodes videos in the "Archive" using so called flows. The best part is that it is super easy to switch between software and hardware transcode. and in contrast to tdarr and similar projects priorizes quality over speed.
In My experience a transcode to HEVC on GPU is a great test of the overall CPU power.
Something to note about those FSP (Fortron) blocks.
They can do a lot.
If such a unit as your is still in good condition, it operates well when loaded at 80% or more. How long will it keep working under heavy load is questionable, since these are old blocks, but from what I have seen, these are very stable, relatively realiable units, with protections and stuff.
Anyone interested, look at how many stickers they have next to the main one. The more the better. I have yet to see one with an 80+ rating.
14:05 a good benchmark would be any kind of performance measurable workload like a geekbench or similar with a few scenarios like stock, lowest possible clocks and artificially power limited to some common wattage like 15W, 20W, 35W or whatever your subscribers usually think is decent for their tasks
Interesting idea! Though these are still synthetic benchmarks (which I already do)
@WolfgangsChannel oh cool I didn't know you're checking all the comments. Yes synthetic benchmarks... I too can't really think of anything other than that, but i think limiting CPU's potential in a few different ways is really close to what people could do to get some power savings and still know what performance to expect
i was in the process of building a similar system but due to space limitation, i bought a terramaster. it idles at 15watts compared to my previous NAS which was 22-25watts. of course i now have NAS rated drives and i run UnRaid instead of TrueNAS. i do have the HDD spin down after not being used after a hour. i have two m.2 2tb’s for my caching. i think at the end, it’s roughly the same as my watts increase a bit more while using the HDD. but i’m happy that i’m getting twice the TB space in a smaller form factor.
terramaster is a great choice if you don't need more than 2 (or 4 for bigger model) spinning drives - combined with 2x nvme it's perfect for my needs. I'm just waiting for them to switch to N100 - it will be a sweet spot with speed/power consumption. Did you get Fx-423 or Fx-223?
I cannot like this video enough, I feel like I learned so much!
The laptop charger as PSU is nuts!!
Didn't expect less than 20W for that build, great! Waiting for the new video about the n100
I really enjoy videos like this, thanks! I recently found your channel and used what I learned to retool my Minecraft server and brought it from 20 watts down to 10 watts while players are logged in and playing! That might be a cool video for you to tackle since it is a light duty 24/7 use case and oddly just wants tons of RAM and a *fast* single core to keep the game loop running at 20 ticks per second. I picked Intel G3258 since they are so cheap and can easily overclock to 4.0GHz. I just bought two off eBay for $9 each and got it up to 4.0GHz stable and it barely touched my idle power draw!!!
Actually impressive
Wait... 10 Watts total while people play MC? Whats's the rest of your setup?
@@muellerhans an ASRock mobo, a Samsung EVO 850 SSD, and importantly a PicoPSU 90 power supply. Oh yeah and a big Noctua cpu cooler that never has to run its fan. There is a 110mm case fan that also never runs.
@@muellerhans I'm playing Nomifactory CeU and late in the game when thousands and thousands of machines are running, the power goes up to like 16 watts when I'm logged in. Having thousands of ticking tile entities increases the needed power a little bit. Still minuscule!
Been running a Ryzen PRO 5750G with ECC as secondary home server. So far it's only occasionally been running some game servers, but once I finally get around to investing in new hard drives, it will eventually replace my old Opteron based server in NAS role as well. Neat chips but honestly right now it would make more sense to get 7000 series Ryzen which all come with integrated graphics, more PCIE lanes and faster gen 4 vs gen 3. Also despite having integrated graphics, they actually all seem to retain ECC support (also depends on motherboard) so you don't have to hunt for PRO models.
Have you seen how much power the 7000 series draws?
@@EmotionalWeather I daily drive 7950X on my desktop. With bit of an undervolt and underclock it runs cool and quiet. For home server use I would certainly consider something like 7900 non-X which runs at much lower TDP rating.
@@ruojautuma1 Doesn‘t matter, I need to get idle use below like 15W. Don‘t need high performance. And it might be possible with the 7000 series, but there are not enough builds out there yet.
@@EmotionalWeather If you have strict thermal constraints then you probably looking for something like Xeon D or even Atom series.
@@ruojautuma1 Its not really about thermals, but about energy consumption. Electricity is expensive :)
I recently built a server/ pc with an xeon e5 2680v4 and an ati hd5850 (rx5700xt on the way), i just chnaged the power supply setup today (i had 2 psus because i needed one more pcie 6 pin connector for the gpu) now I have a 600W 80+ bronze psu that i got for 15€ (5€ for the psu, 10€ for the corsair psu modular cables i modified to work with the sharkoon psu)
For less powerful system I would suggest looking for i3 6th gen office email machine. These machines are being dumped because they do not support win 11, so you can have one for as low as 30 EUR. I use one as router/nvr/homeassitant server it is now at ~80 CPU load avg (6th gen has AI acceleration too which is eating around 60 proc.) but all of that draws only 35 W, so I am pretty happy.
As for PSU in this PC - OEM PSUs for inexpensive office prebuilds are rarely going through certification process, which costs money. They are usually quite efficient, often placing in the range of bronze/silver/gold, which is usually backed up by manufacturers internal testing with results available in documentation. Full certification process is usually made for retail market or higher grade professional units, like for workstations and servers, where you can add the cost a lot easier.
FSP is a well-known brand manufacturing for OEMs and under their own brand. They have a great Hydro series PSUs.
Unfortunately, the 80+ certification usually doesn't correlate with idle power efficiency. It only measures efficiency at certain load percentages, usually starting at 20%. A very efficient storage server can idle at 20-40W, which is usually less than 10% of a low-wattage PSU
@@WolfgangsChannel Agree. I've seen some 80GOLD PSUs that were absolutely terrible at 0-40W range. My comment was more in the general direction, that PSUs that don't have official certification can be decent, especially if prebuilt comes from a reputable manufacturer, because they usually pay more attention to this part, as is can cause a headache in the future and expensive service calls for manufacturers.
My home server costed 65 euro's totally. 49 euro's for the system with 4 GB RAM and a 250 GB harddrive and 8 GB extra RAM for 26 euro's. Excluding monitor and keyboard. It's a HP / Compaq 8100 Elite SFF with a Intel i5 650 proc. It has no fans and is totally silent.
I'm waiting for N100 based NAS test. I'm also curious how behave N300 and N305, but sadly motherboards with these specific chips are not available yet.
Dunno why you almost find nothing about N100 systems either. The all-in-one boards are available und the price is mighty fine in my opinion. I got me an Asrock N100M uATX for my server as it is a board which supports 32 GiB RAM. It is running multiple docker containers (pi-hole among other things), a webserver with nextcloud, as well as a samba and a maria instance... It breaks no sweat... My very old i7 36xx was much less responsive than this N100 CPU. But, you should just add an active fan onto the cooler as this thing can go up to 80-90°C when under full boost. With an average 60mm fan, you will get around 40°C idle and maybe up to 60°C load.
A nice case to combine it with, is the Chieftech IX-06B and its special PSU (you need to buy both, a regular PSU won't fit). This is a bench upload from me, geekbench -> v6/cpu/1573133
I am actually pretty pleased with it.
Did something similar to this very recently, but with a $50 mobo+cpu (some intel celeron) combo instead and just shucked it into an old rig's existing case+psu. Got it down to 22w~ idle with 3 3.5in HDDs, 1 2.5in HDD, 1 SSD, and 1 old fan consuming 3-5w on its own. It's nowhere near as powerful as this Ryzen though but gets everything I need it to do done.
Which Board and cpu you are using?
@@8bit239 Hello, the exact board is called "ASRock J3455-ITX Motherboard" ; it comes with the integrated Intel® Quad-Core J3455 processor. The weirdest part with this setup was the fact it needed laptop memory to function, thankfully I had a lot of dead laptops around to borrow memory from.
2:20 and here i was trying to get into linux and wondering why my HP notebook is so unstable and buggy
Great video, always looking forward to seeing these when they come out.
I didn't know I needed it. Now I need it xD
My current NAS (running of a striped Dell Optilex 9020) consumes 70W (70 fuck*ng watts, around 150€/year) even with a platinium grade PSU...
At 7th of April 2024 I spotted a 4650G processor for €121 retail. So still not a bad deal for a complete pc. Looking into replacing my Haswell board if it dies. It looks interesting!
Thanks Wolfgang, I rarely miss your videos, always super interesting. Especially like the homeserver stuff.
This rig looks like a great deal, however involves a lot of tinkering. What do you make of the recent-ish (or older even) mini-pcs like Optiplex and the like ?
No tinkering required - the pre-built can be used as is. All the tinkering that I did was optional :)
I got myself a minisforum UM790Pro mini pc as my home server solution. it idles at 8-9 watts and is extremely powerful and super silent at the same time...
in general the lenovo tiny pcs aren't that great for anything storage related since they only have 1 sata and 1 nvme I believe.
otherwise cheap but they're also kind of noisy sometimes.
Hey! I am doing sth similar! I am running a 2200g in my proxmox server. ~25 w tdp, cooled via a passive cpu cooler and a gpu which i passthrough to a lxc container for my jellyfin server! ❤
MY servers idle around 13-15 watts plugged in and running. I also found that the PSU is critical in this. I normal crap PSU is so inefficient your idles will be in the 30 watts range. A good Platinum or Titanium PSU will knock that down to 13/15 watts or so...
Atm the 5650g pro goes for 150eur. Also a nice option/upgrade
Dont forget pro cpus support ecc formally (most mb vendors advertise this) which makes them good for nas as well!
In the past i did encounter issues with iommu (breaking as a whole) when updating to a non native bios to support new ryzen generation
I love the fact you care about energy efficiency but also reliably working system.
I was wondering how this setup compares with the out of the box Aostar wtr pro. One obvious benefit about your setup is the BMC and generally more ways to grow.
Good vid. Where do i find instructions on how to install the AMD P-State EPP drivers for Linux 6.3 as i want to improve efficiency on my Proxmox 8 server? You also mentioned enabling aspm for all pcie devices- i already have aspm enabled in bios, do i need to do additional configs in the Linux system?
What script for aspm tuning did you use at 9:01?
Yeah I would also like to know. Would be helpful for my unRAID NAS where aspm isn't enabled for every device
gist.github.com/baybal/b499fc5811a7073df0c03ab8da4be904
@@WolfgangsChannel Thank you very much 👍 and great Video
Try icydock adapters which turn your cd drive bays into hdd bays
Отличное видео! Отдельное спасибо за субтитры)
Тоже присматриваюсь к amd из за поддержки ecc памяти и его работы на большинстве десктопных плат. Думал вам про них написать, а тут ваше видео вышло)
Вообще еще интересны процессоры PRO 5650G (в два раза больше кэш, архитектура cezanne) или варианты 4c\8t, некоторые из них реально купить oem (80-100$)
My truenas build is based on 4650g pro and asrock b550, it really works like charm with ecc memories.
hi there, may I ask what your truenas build's idle power consumption is
@@ksasea have 7 10tb, with 2 4tb. it usually around 50watt to 60
@@ariffinsetya oh, that's...a lot. But is it because of 9 hdds? I'm considering building a truenas with 4350G + asrock B550M Pro4, do you think it'll push down the idle power much?
@@ksasea i dont really tune the cpu at all, it's bone stock, my smart plug register 60kwh last month, plus the ups it's connected to, so around 83w (nas+psu), yeah my 10+ hdd does impact it quite a lot i think. 4350g, already less watt use, and if you use less hdd, should have lower idle also. based on some review, my hdd each use 5-7 w idle, that's already 45w..
@@ariffinsetya tks so much for your insight. BTW, one more question plz. Do you think a strong cpu is important for a truenas system? I'm at a dilemma of chosing whether 4650G or 4350G. As my main purpose is just backing up, storing files, games, and more importantly, playing those games directly without redownloading, I'm wondering if 4350G is enough for these purpose. The main thing I should concern is the read/write speed between my nas and my pc, right? Like 10gbs lan, big ram, big cache,...etc.? If 4350G is ok, I'll go with it since it uses less idle power consumption.
Awesome to see how much PC one can get for money nowadays. I don't need a home server but good to know I just recently build my SoftDev System with:
i5-13500, 2x 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz on a Mini ITX B760M Board for about 620€ in a mini PC self built package.
Thanks Wolfgang for the tip! I bought a 4650g pro used on eBay and replaced my 2700 on my b450 board. I'm using unraid but cannot get under 30W with all disks and SSDs spun down. It is a lot less than the 2700 used. However it seems unraid does not support the higher C-states :(
Again thanks for the tip and best wishes from the Niederrhein:)
that's my server! But I have a320m-hd, 32gb ecc and an additional 2.5gbps pci ethernet. All powered by seasonic focus 80 plus gold. Can't be happier.
oh, there's one problem with it. Can't pass the apu to the container in proxmox. Seems like nobody managed to do it yet
Hey Wolfgang, please do a homeserver build in one of the Asrock Deskmini/Deskmeet boxes, or even Jupiter. Intel or AMD doesn't matter, Deskmini comes with 2 Sata ports + power, and no PCIE slot, so only the M.2s. Deskmeet is a fully fledged itx system, with case and PSU, PCIE slot and loads of connectivity. I'm seriously considering either for a small NAS build or even a home server, and since they're popular - especially the Deskmini, plenty of 3D printed case mods exist to improve cooling and adding expansions.
Thanks again for investigating Ryzen for low power home server build, keep on going with low power/efficiency builds! Homeservers in EU are kinda redundant if it costs more to run the thing in electricity only per year, compared to equivalent cloud services, power efficiency is key.
This system is probably twice as fast as mine, but I'm still really happy with my PC with i7-6700 that I bought (used) for 100€ which still works flawlessly😅
I think you may be interested in 12VO PSUs to get even better idle efficiency. When they become more common...
This may work for me. I'm looking for a power efficient cpu build a 2U server with. All this server will run is windows server 2022, NordVpn, Qbittorent, Sonarr, Radarr, and Jacket.
The collected "linux ISO's" will be moved over to my media server so nothing will be stored on it long term. One M.2 boot volume and a second drive for temp storage (read a place to store the downloads until they complete)is all I need.
fun fact, the stock psu is an fsp, fsp is a really big power supply OEM, thei psu are well built with good capacitor for the ripple suppression and a good voltage regulation even on their entry level psu's that are group regulated and not DC-DC. (DC-DC is a better regulation for voltages than the Group regulated one's) but the point is, a pico psu base his ripple suppression from the power supply that you are using, and if you buy a cheap unit, probably the ripple are not good for your component's (motherboard, ssd and hdd are really sensitive to that parameter).
for example this fsp unit is better than old corsair Vs orange series and it's a littlebit betther than the grey series, it's a way better than the old MWE white v1 from coolermaster, V2 is actually pretty good becouse coolermaster changed the OEM and used better capacitor and dc dc conversion.
there is a test of a cheap fsp unit from FALCO75, with a variable load and the oscilloscope to read the ripple noises.
(sorry for my english, i'm italian and i have not a really good english)
How can I know which CPU to get if I want to be able to do transcoding in PLEX ?
You can put 2.5" SSDs in something like ICY DOCK ToughArmor 8x 2.5" in single 5.25" bay, it's not cheap but works and looks great.
Hi,
This is some awesome power-tech, half of which i don't understand cause i ve been lazy to learn anything about networks and servers... but what i do like is efficiency and design, and boy this chasis on 16:50 looks awsome. Is it possible to get its name ?
I kept looking for a newer Dual CPU Xeon system as I have 2 older servers that for some reason don't have native PCI-E slots in them sadly. But the more I did the numbers, the less it made sense to keep using these when even a consumer board with a Ryzen CPU would beat them out handily doing A.I. stuff with the M40 GPU cards.
The only real plus is that the cases can take these cards and keep them cool, but I still would have to limit myself on the amount of GPU's I could fit inside. So something like a Mining Rig / Case would work better.
But as I keep doing the math? It just makes sense to purchase new hardware as its just so many leaps and bounds ahead of the older stuff of even a few years ago.
And right now seems to be the best time to get into AM-5 as what it can do per clock cycle and with the amount of cores it has is staggering.
Even the AM-4 systems still pack a pretty good punch.
The Only reason why I would stick with an older platform is that that DDR-3 Memory kits are so cheap, getting 1TB of RAM is even affordable.
I guess the next hot ticket would be to get a Old DDR-3 ECC memory moudles with some kind of riser and use that as a massive scratch drive using it as iSCSI / NAS array for video scrubbing. But its only me, so no need for something like that.
Great Video btw!
Does this system support ECC properly or does it support running ECC memory in NON-ECC mode. I see this a lot with AMD boards where it says it will run unbuffered ECC memory but only in non-ECC mode.
Edit: Okay never mind. You answered this question pretty well around 4:00.
Thank you for your clarity on your videos, greetings from Switzerland 😉
Intel refurbished PCs are also going down in price and up in availability at this point. Similar-priced refurbished models have i5-8400 or so, which would also make a really good home server. I'd suggest adding RAM, though, since 8GB RAM is anaemic for some server tasks now.
I wish topton would've made their NAS board with a Ryzen chip that can handle virtualization (more cores)
That would be the best of the best.
Bro I have that same motherboard in my PC. It makes up more than a third of the price of your prebuilt, so that was a really solid deal!
My ryzen 4500u laptop uses very little power. But I am very happy with it can do. I've look for anything else with that Processors. The only thing I can find are mini computer. Which means only one sata or none at all.
I used i7-9700 for my home server and with 2 sdd, 2 hdds and LSI Megaraid ir rarely goes over 50-60W for the whole system while serving invidious, nextcloud and a lot more. If I went all ssd, with no hardware RAID controller I could probably save another 30W.
I built a dedicated home file and backup server a few years ago with a Core i3 10100 running Windows 10. I have not checked its power draw at idle as it doesn't matter much to me.
Glad you commented
You are one of the few english speaking germans where I dont recognize you are german from your dialect. Well done.
If you had to pick something brand new, that is actually available what would you choose, for low consumption, without being poor?
Plex 4k playback, NAS, and other various stuff.
Currently rocking a 5820k with a Quadro P2000, MSI X99-A SLI PLUS, 16gb ram and it consumes around 60-65w.
For a budget around 500 euro.
For the 5.25” device bays, it may be better to put there 4 or 5 bays 3.5'' hdd cage. Like FlexCage MB975SP-B . Or mixed 3.5 and 2.5 cage.
I’d be careful with the latter suggestion as the 3.5” bay will only take HDDs with 6 mount points. I know that Seagate had some 1TB HDDs with 6 mount points years ago. 6TB may be the highest capacity these days.
I dont have server at house yet, but I'm heading this way. I find your work of building energy efficient way very inspiring. Thanks! 🙂
where can i get the PCU fan 0:13 😂
Great video as always, can you tell me what terminal font you are using, I really like it.
never mind I found a video on the channel dedicated to this font
I don't see any 4650G prebuilds on eBay here in the USA. It seems like businesses were more likely to have Intel mini-PCs around here.
Thx for your informative breakdown! I'm currently waiting for my Asrock N100M for my first ever NAS so I'm looking forward to your video with the ITX version.
Thanks for the information. Just for data on what #'s I pay attention to (other than the super-important power/cost you cover well here).... I typically copy thousands of pictures between drives and over the network with my home server. I also dump compressed drive images to it for critical devices on my network. Also, since Apple has changed their image format.... the home server tends to end up getting tasked with converting those in huge batches to JPG. (I tend to use thin clients and laptops, so transcoding and backup tends to get done on the home server--even though the laptops would be faster... I just kickoff a script and the laptop leaves with me or gets shutdown while the server chugs away for sometimes hours) So, USB throughput for external/cold backups, network throughput for large files (10-50gb) and small files (hundreds of K to MB), and local throughput for hot/onine backups. I run plex too.... but even ancient HW does well for HD streams these days.
Interesting. About your future video: I burnt myself once with low-power celeron once. Power efficient does not mean it has enough power. It depends what you throw at it, but for me if something does not require power, RPI can do it, if it does, some USFF PC with skylake/kabylake core i5 are very power efficient, they just consume power under the load, but for home server, it might be a few minutes per day. But difference between celeron and i5 is that task might take either 3s or 10-15s and that's difference between fine and hardly bearable.
You probably underestimate how slow RPi 4 is. It's slower than something like an Atom x5-Z8350, and that CPU is more than 5x slower than the Intel N100. And that's an entry level Atom-level SKU.
I've ran an i3-6100 as my home server for years and it's more than enough for my use cases. As long as it has a PCIe slot and enough SATA ports, I'm good
11:25 Grafana dashboard settings, please! :D
Oh! Is the C6 states thing why my Linux server froze at random? I just bought a network-controlled power outlet and set it to cycle the power if it stopped responding to pings. Reboot times were fast enough that the downtime was irrelevant.
I’d love to see what power draw and usability on something like using it for frigate on home assistant, with and without a Coral.
If you plan on running a media server in a VM, AMD APUs aren't really good for that as it's pretty much impossible to pass the integrated GPU through. However, this being a normal computer form factor, you can always add a discrete GPU to it.
yesterday I tried to pass the 2200g Vega 8 but the whole system crashed so I used a 750ti and it works too bad it consumes more
A make or break it benchmark for me is an sabnzbd repair and unpack of a 4k uhhh home... Video.... From usenet....
When rebuilding my plex library after restarting everything because of dumb reason (alot of TB to download nonstop). It will take 4 hours to repair a single file....
At 3:05 Which line is which CPU?
green is 3600, blue is 4650g
the last few videos have been wornderful, thank you for the amazing content. Looking forward to N305 motherboards!
3:20
The IO And CCX/CCD are swapped
I knew it 🤦♂️
Approx at the end, it was mentioned a new video with the asrock N100 motherboard. Has been published such video?
Simpler and cheaper solution if you are mostly using your "home server" as a media player: buy external usb 3.0 3tb 2.5" hdd for 60 euros or 2tb ssd for 100 euro. Plug it into your tv or PC and transfer it via wifi all over (personaly I don't use wifi at home).
My budget home server is a laptop that can barely hold itself together because half the screws fell out.
I've got RM650x and Seasonic TX-650 Platinum. Platinum is way more efficient than Corsair at low wattage. 7 W on my 40 W idle machine.
It's quite a bit more expensive though. Also, only the 2021 of RMx power supplies has the power efficient tech. The 2018 units are pretty mediocre
@@WolfgangsChannel Got it on a discount, 149€. Couldn't pass. I mean, I did not need it, but the price. Figured 12 year warranty will make it up. Well, first unit lasted for 2 weeks...
I'm not sure which year my RM650x is, but I also have 2018 RM750x, which does idle a bit higher than my RM650x.
looks like it standard ATX parts as well so if that case isn't enough for your needs and you have an old case sittign around maybe worth swapping it over and scrapping the case.
what you could do is like throw a really high 4k 120fps video or something onto plex/jellyfin and test the igpu performance
That was a very interesting video. Great to see video with energy efficiency in focus. Looking forward to see yuour next video on this topic.
I went with an 160W PicoPSU and an 120W (12V10A) DC Laptop Charger. (Actually exactly the components mentioned in this video).
The system crashes under all core load with 110W at the wall. The manufacturer of the PicoPSU says this is to be expected, since only 70-90W are available on the 12V rail.
So I am pretty much SoL here since my motherboard doesn't allow tweaking the cTDP of the 4650G Pro. Have to replace the entire system with an SFX PSU, which kinda sucks.
Don't jump the gun on that SFX PSU yet - you can still probably tweak the TDP in Linux. Check out this article wiki.archlinux.org/title/Ryzen
@@WolfgangsChannel Very helpful, thanks! Some does not apply because I'm running TrueNAS Scale and wanna stay there. But I will definitely keep this handy for my other older Ryzen systems.
However, good news! The option for cTDP was just very very hidden without any documentation in the manual or UEFI itself. Buried in the 4th submenu of AMD Common Settings with several "No help string provided" options and the help of a lot of old forum posts I actually found that using specific hex values in "NBIO SMU Custom Flags" sets the cTDP to 35W. Took me 4 days of looking through AMD documentation and forums, but it finally works!
Total system draw from the wall under full load is 75W now, which still causes the CPU fan to slow down using DC, but it doesn't crash anymore. (All attached drives and expansion cards run through the 12V rail after all). That's a win in my book. 13W idle with 4x NVMe and 2.5G NIC is awesome.
I bought the 4650G with a semi-broken motherboard for 80€ on Kleinanzeigen, which is honestly a steal for that system. Wouldn't have done it without your knowledge and this video. Thank you a lot!
TrueNAS Scale is based on Debian, so it definitely applies. Glad you managed to get it fixed though
@@WolfgangsChannel It's really restricted tho. All system configs get rebuilt from their proprietary configuration on boot.
I didn't even manage to apply some ZFS tunables, that would have solved the problem for me as well, since changing said configs as root intentionally yields I/O errors. Installing anything on the host (not within Docker containers that is) is pretty much unsupported. Coming from CentOS, the restricted nature of TrueNAS Scale was quite surprising. But I really like some of its feature set and ease of use.
Thought about switching to plain Debian or Alma, but this is resolved, so I'm fine with it.
Thanks for video. Would have liked to see you add whatever the best bang for buck video card is for transcoding and compare power usage and transcode FPS with that.
An Intel Arc card is on the way 😉
Would love a video on must-haves/must-knows for home assistant
What, precisely, is the product name of the PC in this video? What are the complete specs of the model? Is this available outside of Germany?
This particular model doesn't seem to be sold anymore. The specs are mentioned in the very beginning of the video. You can also enable subtitles
I really want to see that n100 build, I was thinking use on the m.2 the sata m.2 adapter jmb585, the pcie x16 the pcie sata jmb585 and the pcie x1 a 2.5gbe i225, totaling to 12 sata and 2.5gbe lan?
I'm planning on doing this with the Asus N100 motherboard.
15 Wat in idle is power efficient, most watts in idle use IO die not CPU cores itself.
but where's that 15W XEON build?
Interesting to watch!
Thanks!
Isnt it possible to spin the disks up one by one like old SCSI did on Bus-Scan if you had it configured that way? You may have to buy an SAS HBA and some SAS HDDs but the Powerdraw on Bootup would be less - I guess?! ^^
I have a x99 motherboard with Xeon e5 2650L V4, gt 710 and nvme.
It consumes around 37w idle with some proxmox vms.
Hallo Wolfgang.
There is to much difference of power efficiency between ryzen 4650g and 5600g? With TrueNas?
Danke
The Corsair PSU is the wrong one. Personally i run such a Server with a 350W oder 400W PSU. This System has a Powerload of maximum 250 Watt. The System runs most of the time below 30 Watts. Which means below the 10% treshhold of PSU Certification. Even the Corsair will drop down to 80% efficiency when it runs at 5% and will not reach peak performance as it would need about 260-270 Watts. To reach it's 93%. If you take a be Quiet ! pure Power 11 400 Watt Gold Plus PSU with a 92% Efficency, you will be over 5% and closer to 10%. And they relativly come cheap at 55€ . As i said i have a quality 350w Silver, which is sadly discontinued, that would be the perfect PSU for this system. Some reserve for Aging and a 10% of 35w. Ran my Old Homeserver for over a Decade.
I would disagree.
Small power supplies went almost extinct as a category with the introduction of more power hungry CPUs and GPUs.
As a result, most of the
@@WolfgangsChannel And yet this table shows exactly it: The standard 80 plus Coolermaster MWE 400 is nearly as good as the Corsair 550x. How about the Be Quiet Pure Power 400 Gold Plus? I know that there are no longer any 350w Gold out there, But there are 400W Gold out there.But when you can live with 2 Screws or an adapter plate a TFX Gold with 300W is avaible. Using one for my selfbuild Ryzen 5 5600G "Trashcan" PC. Be Quiet TFX Power 3 300 Gold got an efficiency Rating of 82.7% for 10%. For again 65€.
AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G Tray (100-000000143) - regular store in Germany 102€ plus P&P, about 7€
Link?
@@WolfgangsChannel Falls YT die andere Antwort löschen sollte, bei hardwareschotte eingeben ... momentan liegt man aber wieder bei rund 150 Euro.
Oder bei Jacob de, den Laden kenn ich, dauert zwar aktuell etwa eine Woche, aber Preis bei 112 Euro.
Naja, 150€ ist das doppelte vom Ryzen 5 3600 - nicht wirklich ein gutes Deal (habe ich auch in meinem Video erwähnt - 4:59). Mit dem Prebuilt bekommst du den kompletten Rechner, und das für nur 100€ oben drauf.
@@WolfgangsChannel Ging auch nur darum, dass du erwähnt hattest, wie teuer der 5er wäre und das es ihn inzwischen für knapp über 100 Euro gibt.
Hab mir gestern noch direkt einen bei Jacob bestellt, für knapp über 112 Euro, soll spätestens Freitag hier sein - hab aktuell einen 5 5600G, aber der lässt sich nicht wirklich zum Sparen animieren.
Würde ich nicht machen - 5600G soll genauso sparsam wie der 4650G sein, da sie beide auf den Laptop-Chips basiert sind. Wenn dein System mit dem 5600G nicht sparsam ist, würde es leider mit dem 4650G nicht besser. Dein Problem liegt wohl woanders im Rechner (Mainboard, PCIe-Geräte, usw.)
I'm dying from laughter because of all those funny scenes included :D
All best from Poland! Watching videos one by one! :D
Is that N100 video you was working on coming any time soon? I am really interested in that platform.