Advanced Embouchure: Roll in Roll out and Tongue Arch by Kurt Thompson
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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Advanced Embouchure: Roll in Roll out and Tongue Arch.
This is a brass coaching session and embouchure development by Kurt Thompson. These are advanced techniques for the advanced or professional musician and frankly I don't care if you play trumpet cornet trombone French horn baritone euphonium or tuba because this tutorial is exactly what you need and is applicable to all brass instruments.
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This was definitely great advice and a good lesson. At the beginning of the year I had been using too much tongue to control notes and not enough chops, and it became the opposite and I couldn't figure out how to position my tongue correctly. It was a huge "musicians block" so to speak, and having this video really cleared things up for me.
That's fantastic to hear!
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Excited to try this when I get my trumpet tomorrow! Played in high school and bugle corps but took 10 years off. Could play Double A strong but never used roll in or tongue arch. Hopefully 10 years breaks habits and i can start working towards playing effortlessly with persistance!
You can do it!
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I started playing at 15 and I'm almost 50 now.
Sure, I took twenty years off playing, but I once played well enough to make a modest living at it. I'm just getting back into it now.
Some advice for younger players.
Listen to this guy.
Do exactly what he advises.
Upper register is not brute force, it's technique.
Practicing something wrong just means you get really good at doing it wrong.
He's doing it right.
Thanks and also...for 50 year olds that did not play for a long time, GO HERE: www.trumpetsizzle.com/comebackplayer.html
Thanks for the link.
I'm going to have to decline for now, as the budget won't stretch that far. Christmas coming up and all.
But!!!
I used to travel for about two hours each way to get lessons from the best trumpet teacher I could access.
The lessons cost me, in today's money, about US $150 a lesson. That was when I was a student.
Compared to that, what you offer is very, very good value.
I'll weigh it up in the new year.
No Pressure! lol . If you only play at home or church then you don't need my course. Should you actually want to get out and grab a much sought after lead chair in a competitive band..even a community band, then you would likely have to up your game
If I get back half of what I was, those chairs will come. :-)
(As a trumpet player, I have to say that. But I was a reasonable player back in the day)
My main issue at the moment is not reaching the top notes, but getting more note than air.....and oh look, you have a video on that.
(goes to watch video)
A didgeridoo? OK. I lived and worked in an area that was 85% Aboriginal in NW Aus'.
Had a lesson from the real deal too.
Mostly, they find outsiders playing what is a very ceremonial instrument to them somewhat awkward.
Aside from that, up to a double G, I can produce some solid notes with reasonable regularity.
Not a lot of endurance yet, but that will come.
I just thought I'd go back and add something I should have in my last response.
You're right.
If a player wants to take it to the next level, they should seek out expert guidance.
What you have on offer is some really good "bang for your buck" stuff there for making that happen.
These are great videos, Kurt. I am a comeback player from over 30 years ago. I am having to work out all of the mechanics again. Your videos are helping me out immensely. I need to work on everything it seems, but the higher register is starting to come to me some. I just need to redevelop my chops a lot. Thank you for these videos.
Thanks. You will need to eventually get some skin in the game and that means going here: trumpetsizzle.com
www.trumpetsizzle.com/trumpetcourse.html Hey don't quit band just because you got braces or having other troubles. Don't give up or get depressed because I have a brand new course just for beginners and intermediate brass players. Especially for 5th and 6th graders, but equally as important for junior high, middle school and high school band musicians too. At least one thing is on your mind: YOU DON'T WANNA SUCK!!! Check out my new course at my site: www.trumpetsizzle.com/trumpetcourse.html
Kurt, I Luv you man!!! I'm a mature beginner working on the C scale, struggling for E and G until I found this gem! I've cracked it now AND one higher following exactly what you have shown in this video! Granted I got a lot of work to do on quality but I can hit them when I want and I don't feel like my heads about to explode. I've subscribed so does that make me a student Lol. Much Luv and respect.
Very good comment and great to hear!
man! thanks! never heard of tongue arch! been playing 25yrs been hanging around high double g, no endurance at all. never super c in a performance! can hit high d and e flat, but that high f and high g was weak! thanks still got to practice.
hope this works for you
Very very interesting! Thanks a lot!!
So nice of you
Best explanation so far 👏
Glad it was helpful!
this is the best video to build embouchure i have come across thank you most helpful.
Glad you liked it
Spot on! Absolutely correct!
Ta, Te, Tee, Tic for the tongue arch.
i had no idea. Exciting to think that these techniques are there and now i can go from high e to something really awesome.
Yes!
Thanks Kurt, I am a 66yo former Trombone player. On trumpet I could hit first C and D above staff using Roy Stevens embouchure and zero tongue, but no further. Can't wait until I get home and try with arch, I tried a little at a recent music camp, but tutor could not explain it all that well. I do have a further question: do you seal off oral cavity by spreading tongue out sideways?
Yes you seal off the oral cavity entirely with the tongue both up and out
Thanks ! Much appreciated.
You're Welcome!
Gracias Kurt ..good advice
Glad it helped1
How do you tongue?? Like I'm having trouble tounging when I use the tongue arch. It really boosts my range and my tone but what's holding me back is that I'm struggling to tongue.
You won't get it by my answer here as you need to go through the process, THE ENTIRE PROCESS in my course. You tongue with the forward bend in your tongue! trumpetsizzle.com when you get tired of hitting dead ends teaching yourself!
Can you show what it looks like using a mouthpiece visualizer??
Kurt Thompson is Trumpet God
lol well if that is true, most of us are the servants
How do you studied to learn rooling in and out and at the same time arch the tounge?
private lessons
I'm currently a trumpet player in my high school, playing first chair of my ensemble. I am also a low brass player, baritone and tuba. The thing is, my tuba sound is so much more open than my trumpet sound. Very powerful.. it "sings" is how my band director says it. I"m working on pedal tones a bunch, but I'm still looking for more ways to devolop a more open "singing" sound. Do you have any tips?
I sure do
JUST what I needed to see! Thank you!!
That's great! It's funny. Players say to me how come you don't just play full time? Playing serves my ego, but teaching? I get to make other people's lives just a little bit better. Glad this helped!
Yes, Kurt! You're a wonderful guy! Loving your philosophy
Great!
I'm going to appply this but I'm just confused because I have never done roll in or toungue arch and my range has been very solid up double g fairly effortlessly, I start getting an eeee sound on double g but that is subsiding, but really I am glad tat someone is putting good technique on UA-cam, thank you
5 years later: WHAT HAPPENED?
very important video!!
Glad you found it helpful!
thanks for the upload
+John Gonsalves glad you like it!
Thank you. This was very helpful!
Kool
Kurt when you are playing with a arched tongue do you leave it planted at the bottom of teeth? If so, to tongue a note you would use like the arch to make the tongue sound? I am a returning player been 20 years I have forgot a lot of things.
It depends, but usually depends on high up you are going up for yourself. Yes, at some point you end up tonguing with the crease or forward bend in the tongue while the tongue remains anchored or fixed to where the bottom teeth meet the gumline
Thank you very much
+william arm I guess your screwed if you got residing gums!!! lol!!!
folks go here :www.trumpetsizzle.com improving range is a process not a collection of watching videos. I have almost 600 videos. You can watch them all, but....YOU WILL HAVE MISSED THE PROCESS involved in my course...it's a must! You skip it? NO HIGH NOTES, NO ENDURANCE!
Is there any way to fix playing the trumpet too far downward? I've gotten very used to it and can hit above high c while doing it, but when i play upward or in the middle I get a very airy sound and can't go above middle c.
Yes, STRENGTHEN your embouchure
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you very much for the instructions. The thing is how wide do you keep your tongue while playing? Do you keep it in it's natural for native English speakers width or narrow it as many other native laguage speakers do?
I don't force the tongue to get wider or more narrow. I let the tongue do what it is suppose to do naturally.
@@TRUMPETSIZZLE thank you for all your work, Mr. Kurt. Watched your videos first time yesterday and today feel the result of the information I applied from this video.
Have always been paying much attention to my breath support and tongue, but never thought much about chops to be honest. Think what I need is exactly what you provide via your course. Have not bought it yet but definately it worth the money, thank you very much Mr. Kurt.
Btw it's very clear from this video that for higher notes the tongue goes up and for high register it goes up and forward. But do not understand which part raises up. Some sources say the middle of the tongue and others say the rear tongue. Mr. Kurt could you please share what your feeling is? Thank you
Arnold Jacobs said that you should let the lips roll in as you ascend, as well. The tongue arch concept comes from Reinhardt, yes?
Tongue arch comes from Colin and Gordon
+Kurt Thompson so I wonder if Colin, Gordon, or Reinhardt said it first? Interesting research project. They all had to figure that stuff out through visual observation. It is possible that they came to the same conclusions simultaneously. I am curious to see what your research discovers.
I am not particularly keen on Reinhardt so you might want to ask somebody more unbiased.
could you demonstrate de rolling lips in several regists but with a mouthpice viewer to see what happens inside? great video btw :)
Great suggestion! Send me an email in January 2021 when i have more time and I most likely will do it for you
hi kurt.. thank you so much for your tips, but i wana ask.. when you doin roll in, where is the position of lower lips, in front of lower teeth or above it? hoping the answer..
My lower lip is rolling over the bottom teeth, but hold on: Everybody is different, diff size lips, diff size teeth, diff jaw structure....so it will depend on some factors
thankyou for the asnwer.. its very hard for me to play hight with the good sound and scream sound.. i got double G but the sound is so small and thin.. i try to push the air more but i lost the sound..
Don't give up!
one more quation, how to make it more loud...?
bravissimo... numero 1
Thanks!
Does any of this work on the trombone?
.....ALL of it
👀 can't do it...but. 👀 like it...
can't do it...YET! Always assume you CAN do it in the near future my friend!
So in order to roll in, I just put my lips inward while leaving some of the link flesh out? I'm lost
its an advanced technique that even most pro's get wrong or can't do...www.trumpetsizzle.com is where you need to get started
Hey, this about my 5th time watching this, now 6th, and for some reason I still can't get the tongue arch. I have the roll in pretty good, but adding the arch is what's been challenging for me. I buzzed on my mouthpiece and kinda moved my tongue around in my mouth in an arch way and still couldn't ascend much. I also saw a video from wilktone where there was an x-ray of a man playing while performing to the tongue arch, and I tried doing the same exact thing he did, but I wasn't successful at it, and I understand it's only my fourth time trying this again since I've seen this video for the first time only four days ago, but is there anything I could do that could help me to get the tongue arch down packed?
I do have some tongue arch tutorials and also a test you can get on my site. Scroll through all my baby, short tutorials and look for tongue arch and tests! www.trumpetsizzle.com/products--videos.html
When the tongue is arched does it tough the roof of the mouth? I have tried the arch and it has not worked for me at all. there is no change is pitch weather I move it up or down anybody know what I’m doing wrong?
it touches the roof at some points. You are not anchoring the tongue...that is your problem
@@TRUMPETSIZZLE Did you learn as a kid how to whistle with your lips in a pucker position or later on the real loud cheering at a sporting event whistle. If so, notice exactly what your tongue is doing when you go from a low note in your whistle to a higher note. That is a tongue arch.
Hey Kurt Thompson...umm I've been practicing some of the things you've been tlkin about on the videos you've uploaded...and it's worked...if you would like to see a video of me I can send it to you sir
Hey great! let me see
what would you like me to send the video to???
And I still play on the side of my mouth kinda...is that something I could fix???
My embochure has changed quite a bit and my bottom lip has sort of rolled more inside. Is that bad?
Not necessarily, but it is hard to comment when I don't know you and you are not a student
Thank you for all your advice! My embouchure is now fixed. I was changing embouchure between high and low notes, but after 5 months, I am back to normal. Also, where can I find your 4 month program?
Love your vids! Straight down the middle! Logical, realistic teaching
much appreciation!
can the age spoil the emborchure n
nope
Im confused about the anchoring your tongue part, I can't get the tongue arch down.
This is one of more of the complex techniques in brass playing because it requires a feel....just keep trying.
Good morning, I'm fine, I'm from Brazil, how are you? I've been following your videos and I want to congratulate you for helping us with your tips. And I want to take this opportunity to ask you a question. You know the method, jeff Smiley, balanced mouthpiece and sorry for the typos.
Yes I know the Balanced Embouchure B.E. method by Jeff Smiley and I have a review coming out on it very soon.
Thank you very much for your attention, I'll be waiting.
Yes I hope to have it edited and published in the next 2-3 weeks.
Ah, man....the more I watch the more I have to work on...my upper register sucks!
persistence!
I really need some type of help...i need it bad...i'm too close to college and i know from my past years of being in band i dont have what it takes to be up there with them...i need help from anyone who reads this.
I help musicians all over the world and some as young as in 8th grade. Now, if you are wanting FREE help, you WILL be one of the worst musicians wherever you go. NONE of us that got anywhere with music got help on the house. When I was 18 I was paying for 2 60 minute private lessons each week for a year? You doing that? Are you busting your ass cutting grass, washing cars, babysitting, picking up dog crap at your local vet like I did to make it happen?
If not, Your world is going to transform at a TURTLE'S PACE!
wouldn't that thin your sound? that's what my instructor tells me.
Nope, but even if it did, a thin double g is better than the high d or eb your instructor can only play!