This Is Why Your Drawing Setup Sucks.
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- Check out Fishman's tutorial on Yiihuu:
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OK let's talk about our drawing setups. There's a lot to cover here, and you won't change your mind, but I still have hope!
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
01:50 - My Dream Drawing Setup
09:19 - Setting Up A Drawing Display
24:14 - Conclusion
Music:
Bungalow Bed - Moon Craters.mp3
Small Circuits - From Now On.mp3 - Розваги
Everyone (not everyone) is asking for the link to the tall aluminum stand, so here it is: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000920875095.html
Keep in mind that smaller size is actually a different simpler stand that you've seen in the video.
You're so wrong Boro, I have a 22inch drawing display mounted on an arm that's attached to a standing desk and at an angle and height similar to an artist easel and I love it cause I work standing on my feet like most traditional artists so wrong posture is not a thing. The real problem is sitting and even with your new setup you'll still be doing your back and other bits some damage even if you take the recommended hourly "stretch breaks" which I doubt you do when you get in "the zone" P.S there is no such thing as "sitting like a normal human being" our ancestors squatted when not standing, sitting is unnatural 😁
Actually, standing for long periods of time is far worse for you than a proper sitting set up with an ergonomic chair. The blood pools to your legs & causes inflammation of the veins etc. Not to mention leg cramp & backache. Granted standing is better than a bad sitting set up & I stand to work, but only because it is intermittent & I have no space for a dedicated chair. Your set-up does sound pretty sweet though 😊
Aaaand it's gone
Found the Small one!
a.aliexpress.com/_B1RScy
Page not found nooo D:
Boro: why your drawing set up sucks
Me: (looks at my tablet on my bed)
Me: yeah
Glacier Llane I mean same...
Me: (looks at myself sitting like a mad frog with the tablet on my legs) Well... I admit it may be suboptimal.
Me looking at my note 9 on my knee
Like for real bro this small pen hurts my hand
Small screen hurts my eyes
And my gesture
@@MrMis1osm thats what makes me wonder if it will be worth for me. I want a tab s6 because ipad is absolutely too expensive for me and i use medibang for a long time anyways, so i want something very portable that i can take with me without bothering with a pc and wires at all. But the pen looks veeeery thin and i dont really like it, so i think i will eventually customie it somehow to be more enjoyable to hold o.o
What do you think about this?
Me: *slouching*
"You can sit straight, like a normal human being."
Me: *not slouching*
lmao true
😂😂😂 IKR
When Boro say "Don't Slouch, i don't be slochin', but when he leave...i be slouchin' again..."
My neck my back baybay
I lay on the floor to draw, so there’s that.
You have to consider that you come from a digital painting background - you probably started on a screenless tablet and developed your skills on it. I'm traditionally trained and used to working with actual pencils, ink, paint... I struggled on screenless tablets but wanted to transition to digital anyway. When I bought my first display tablet my drawing quality and work speed improved tremendously. I guess I need to see the line as I draw it, where I draw it. It's different for everyone and I'm happy you found your dream setup :)
Same. After years of trying, I never got used to that disconnect. I love tablet display monitors.
Same here. And he totally forgot to mention that you can set up your DisplayTablet in a 90° angle so you can sit straight and draw like on a canvas. So yeah, it's the future and all the big digital artists work like that for a reason.
Drawing on a regular tavlet is like drawing directly from your brain. And your hand doesn't iterrupt your vision.
if that were the case, traditional drawing and painting surfaces would just be " a kitchen table" instead of easels and drawing tables that go up to 80 degrees, he's 100% right that is better for you to draw with your back as straight as possible and with your neck NOT looking down at a tablet
btw my drawing table only goes to like 45, that's why they make them high tho, so you can still use your shoulders to draw and so you don't mess your spine
Personally I think there's a bit more to the display vs non-display debate. Some of it is definitely the urge to have the flashy new device, and I'm sure plenty of people even mistakenly believe they "need" one to do well, but many people also just never quite get used to the visual disconnect of non-display tablets and are more comfortable using displays. I think the idea that displays are objectively better needs to go, but I would say it's more about trade-offs and what is best for an individuals preferences rather than what is objectively best.
I definitely agree with your main points though. If you are using a display tablet a solid stand that gives a decent angle is absolutely mandatory, hunching over anything for any extended period of time is just awful for your body.
Yeah I really felt the visual disconnect you talk about when I got my first drawing tablet (Intuos Pro, non-display) but quickly I've realized the best way to set up the tablet in relation to my monitor and my brain adjusted right away - our hand/eye coordination flexibility is just fascinating. When you have a quality tablet, there's no need for it to be a display one. Still, like you, I think display tablets have very valid reasons to exist, and I'm sure you can set them up ergonomically, even the bigger ones, just like artists have for centuries used special tables and easels for traditional supports like canvas and paper.
It is strongly depending on the activity. Not every thing needs the same brush stroke accuracy . You don't need it at all for photo retouch (indeed, not recommended, as has been tested, even a Cintiq 27 QHD is worse for color accuracy than a professional Eizo, there's a very detailed video about it by a professional photographer here, in YT). So, even at high end professional level. Neither for pixel art or vector based illustrations, and IMO, neither for digital painting (or oil painting mimicking, either). For line-art, line inking, is where I see advantages on a Display tablet (I am able to ink on an XL, but at the cost of accuracy, control and, sadly, time, by a large margin. Then again, inking on paper is also _way_ faster than on a display tablet!). But for many artists, that can be only a small part of their session if at all. Anyway, many of the best inkers in the world just ink on paper, yet. It was even controversial in last year's Inktober (and prolly the previous ones) that some used digital inking...
I've been a intuos 5 User for many years, since it came out until 2019. I had it in size M, and worked on a 23 inch Eizo screen. It worked well, I had it sticked to the table with double sided tape, so it would not move when drawing from the arm (damn rubberized frame didn't help either). It liked it, but I've always cramped with the hand, because I saw my details bigger (23 inch screen), than my hand could move, so It always felt "out of proportion". When I studied design I got used to drawing a lot bigger, A2 size (40x60cm) and somehow it felt very limiting to use the intuos in comparison to just paper and pencil. For painting the accuracy was fine enought, but when drawing I missed the control you head when doing big strokes. As I neither wanted to get a bigger Intuos (none of them come in a3 size anymore), and I wanted a big screen anways I got the cintiq 32. And Yes, it has its benefits, coming from a traditional background, its very nice that one does not have too zoom to do details, and just have the whole image open all the time. Also helps with big strokes and drawing in the "same world" as traditionally. Its also easier for me to "imagine" to work with a traditional tool, than with a digital art pen. But it has also its downsides, as Borodante mentioned. Having it high enough is important, but with the 45 degree angle It will eventually hurt your back, if you don't move for a long time. Setting up the chair fairly high and the whole table with it can help a lot. Whats sad, for me personally is, that the angle on which you can use the pro pen is not flat enough for a traditional technique, such as overhand grip and such sorts. I hope they gonna fix this in the next version, but they probably won't. It has its positive and negative sides, but for me personally, the positives outweigh the negatives. But I no way it is mandatory to use a cintiq for proper art, as borodante shows! I suggest anyone that wants to start digital art, rather than to get a new beginner tablet, to get a used Intuos 3-5, if it comes in a big size. I recently found an a3 at the electical dumbster at my university, as the pen got broken. Got myself a new pen on ebay, and now iam ready to roll.
is drawing tablet really is better than display?
My MacBook Air completely broke down to the point that I couldn’t use it for virtual school, so I got a stand-alone Tablet. I use it for everything. Not just drawing. I say the stand-alone is the best bet. I actually needed it because I had to use it for virtual school, but don’t use your money on one if you have another computer.
Finally! The thuth been spoken. EVERY tablet needs a stand.
Stands for blind tablets or I riot!
Boro this video broke me I need to lie down and rethink my life choices. Jokes aside there’s a lot of truth being spoken here! Well done! :)
yep
Ultimate setup would be if tablet manufacturers got their head out of their asses and made pens for drawing instead of writing, current digital pens you can only hold like a pen, you cant hold it like your supposed to hold a properly sharpened pencil for drawing which is quite similar to how you hold paintbrushes, if they fixed this by making digital pens that work at extreme tilt angles then you could have a pen display almost vertical just like an easel so you would get the same ergonomics as drawing or painting with an easle which is the best way to make art both because of the viewing angle, the ergonomics and the pencil/brush control
Yes, I've been saying this for ages.
Have you tried the Apple Pencil+iPad? Because it can do just that, part of the reason why I bought it. They’re the only Apple devices I own
@@dave5194 ah I see I found a vid BoroCG did on that and yeha it seems much better, not as low angle as I would like but far far better than normal pens
In other words, you want a Hi-Uni Digital.
@@galeocerdo6084 No that one does not work, it still has the tip shaped like a ballpoint pen which is not good for painting / sketching. The Apple Pencil is shaped like an actual pencil, meaning you can draw with the side of the pencil.
Borodante: Why Your Art Setup Sucks
Me: **looks at my crayola colours and regular office stuff**
Me: I mean, I already know but, surprise me then
Same but I'm just on the floor
i have an i pad, but i use it on bed, and end up sitting on it sometimes
gotta come back and watch this whenever i feel the urge to look at the shiny super expensive display tablets lol
An beware, as wacom sort of fails to have proper quality control, you'll most likely regret your purchase if there's bad customer support in your country. In mine, luckily, the support was very good. I had smears on my cintiq 3 screen, that sort of displayed brighter colors on some areas, that grew over time. I had to send it in 3 times, and with the third time they finally sent me a good one. Quite crazy if you imagine that price tag! If you're interested in XP-Pen tablets, the're ok, my gf has one, but the display is anything but colour accurate, and the pen won't pretty much register movements under 1mm, so at the end of the day, you still gotta zoom in and draw big.
@@Gumpa2 yeah...sounds liek i made a good decision buying the one with no screen :)
I used to be amazed by Wacom, but I already have a Wacom, and all of them look to same except for the pen tablets, so I’m currently on XP-PEN
I kind of disagree with this video, I used to have a drawing tablet, and the experience was good, but i recently purchased a drawing display and the experience changed completely, to the best.
I'm able to control my strokes way better with a display than with a tablet, having the connection between your eye, your hand and the screen really, reeaaally helps (FOR ME).
Now I agree that the posture is not the best one with the screen tablet, same as if you draw with paper and pencil, but there're ways to work on that so your posture is better.
I think that each of the tablets have their advantage and disadvantages, so there is no "better than the other" , like this video CLEARLY intended to show.... A clear example is that I found myself having a bad posture even with the drawing tablet! So posture depends on the user and set up more than the tablet itself.
Kinda the same, for comic book artists (and inkers, specially) a display tablet provides a huge a amount of control for the strokes, masks and selections, that is a tad more difficult to accomplish with regular tablets.
Nonetheless, digital painting and random doodling/sketching is actually a lot more enjoyable in non display tablets.
Also, I think most pen displays allow for hybrid workflow. All you have to do is turn off the display and there you go. You can use your immense cintiq as a very large intuos.
Agreed. But different strokes for different folks I guess.
With tablets is worth to mention that one can have very different experiences depending on the ratio of the tablet area and coverage of monitor. Display tablets are 1:1 by default (as couldn't be any other way to make sense), and that alone can make one think that the eye hand coordination Is just better in display tablets for people let's say, coming from the experience of using a 6x8 tablet to cover a 25 inch monitor in which the ratio is completely destroyed to be 3:1 aprox and a litte mark you do on the tablet looks three times larger on the screen. Not saying this was your case, but just a thing to consider for people reading your comment. One has to try a near 1:1 ratio with the tablet before deciding that display tablets are the solution for the lack of accuracy and eye hand coordination problem. The intuos a3 he is showing here is a beautiful size for a tablet that will work great with even 27 inch monitors and that allows big gestural strokes too. No wonder he is so happy with his setup since is just perfection.
I feel the same way, a drawing display tablet greatly improved my work and it was much easier to work with. I couldn’t get past the disconnect of having to look somewhere else than what you’re drawing and coloring on. Sure, I do that with referencing and sketching stages, but line art was horrid. I like the experience I get from looking at what I’m doing like you would IRL. I have more control and more buttons I can customize on the side too. I don’t think they’re a scam, they’re expensive, but you really don’t need a Wacom brand nowadays. I use XP Pen brand and it’s been wonderful. Just save up some money and wait for a holiday sale. I also have an iPad Air I doodle on when traveling. I would never go back to a traditional tablet, especially now given the fact that there’s so many options on the market for screen ones. I think it is what works for person to person, those cheaper tablets never worked for me. Just like how using photoshop for illustrations never worked for me, even though a lot of artists used it. I hated using it for coloring and drawing. It’s great for photo editing and such, but it feels too unintuitive for what I want otherwise.
Posture and how your stuff is set up is important. I mess up my shoulder, chest and neck if the screen is perfectly flat on the table. My tablet monitor has a stand and I have it sitting on an adjustable monitor base thing. I have a foot rest and proper chair. For a while I was using a chair that sat way too low for the taller desk I use, I have a high drafting chair that has a back and cushion.
I completely relate. I never enjoyed using my intuos, but I didn't really know any better. I picked up a pen display a few days ago and it's honestly like, I actually like drawing again. It must be a headspace thing, because there are obviously people like Boro who don't need it but man.. it must be that hand / eyeball / pen connection. It just clicks for me more then a regular pen tablet ever has.
I made my company buy me the most expensive cintiq there is, "cause all big studios are using it" and "it's gonna look cool to clients who come in". I ended up hating the thing, I couldn't find a way to be confortable to use it longer than a few hours. I realised I was unconciously finding ways to just use my mouse, and that thing as a screen because it was just not ok. We sold it and I got the largest wacom intuos, a 4K screen and some super nice headphones.
I honestly have to thank him so much about the stand thing.
I have a small graphics tablet and just propped a binder under it and it works wonders.
Thank you so much!
I wish artists would let go of the belief that you need a drawing display. It really is just a preference and not a requirement. I've used both a display and a regular tablet, and they both work well. I just happen to prefer displays. If I ever got an Intuos or something, I'd definitely get a set up like this.
it's very hard for some people to coordinate without the screen though.
@@ramsaybolton9151 but at the same time it hurts the neck and back for some people using with screen so 😔
@@ramsaybolton9151true but you can learn.
took me a week to learn.
@@pamios wrong. you can adjust it with a stand and that works just fine
11:35 Boro: Raising your arm to draw like this would be a nightmare
Michaeaangelo: Hold my Egg Tempera
Lol
I have the strongest arm/shoulder from years of drawing on easels lol
Lmao 😁
I think you make some good points, and it's great to see someone discuss ergonomics for artists. I personally cannot use anything but a drawing display - I tried and I couldn't get used to the disconnect between my hand and eyes. I settled on a Cintiq 22HD and have been using it for 7 years. I don't have issues with ergonomics because I've set mine up with an Ergotron LX monitor arm. But I can definitely see it causing some back and neck problems without the Ergotron.
I have Huion display tablet Kamvas pro 13 back on may 2019 till few days ago. I don't really like using it as screen and drawing tablet at the same time because my posture will be bad and it doesn't really feel good. While using it like pentab and using good monitor feels better. Means that, I don't need display tablet and just good enough pen tab and good enough monitor with at least 24" size.
Boro literally tell about that. Which is good. You don't need display tablet.
ye im noob but i get learn with a non screen as a normal confortable , Learn that cordination takes time but its not too much like say its imposible.
i could never go back to non-screen display. being able to touch directly what your working on like a real pencil is so much nicer then using a cursor.
He is right about the comfort and ergonomics of the tablets, but something he does not take into account is that drawing with a tablet is a different skill than drawing, if you are a good in traditional drawing that translates almost automatically to a display when it is frustrating in a tablet having to relearn and practice skills, it is as if someone were good at using a revolver and switched to a machine gun, of course there are things in common but they are not the same
@@david189401 Yes, it's pretty bad advice to say you only need an Intuos without saying that you will have to spend ages learning the hand eye coordination and is it even truly possible to get as accurate as using a Cintiq? I fon't know because I started with a Cintiq.
@@ryanstark2350 no its not possible, i can confidently say , in sektching i need about 5 times less control-z and other fixes on my pen tablet/ compared to the intuos ... on an intuos your are always a bit off angle with your strokes and have to redo them , it takes about 15 minutes of drawing to calibrate but if you dont glue the tablet and your monitor on the table you will have that readjustment many times a day
@@david189401 I completely agree with you bro
@@ryanstark2350 That's possible. You can check out Naoki Saito's channel. He draws mainly with a medium-sized pen tablet (paired with a 27' mon). He has a display, but don't use it nearly as often, he actually explained it in a video called "5 reasons why a pen tablet is better". He often does live drawing sessions, and his strokes are always so precise. Granted, he's a freak of nature, but it's possible.
Always, always appreciate someone's well researched and objective opinion. Subscribed!
I am one of those traditional older artists that was taught you can muck up perspective looking and drawing down on a table, besides messing up your neck and posture. New subscriber. Been drawing on my computer for years with a mouse and just got my first drawing tablet and pen and just love it, but I really feel I need a stand to bring it up so I can see the huge monitor I have. Thanks for making this video. In art school doing fine art they always supplied artist easels, same idea as what you are communicating there.
I use a little intuos for my drawing, nice and cheap and never had a problem one. I also spent a lot of money into monitor(s) and love them. Having two instead of one big one has also been a great boon, so consider that as well. You can keep your references open without sacrificing drawing space. I am grateful you made this video because sometimes I do get tempted by the drawing display that many drawing channels feature and are sponsored by. Thanks!
Vote for the two monitors up, I also use one monitor for reference. To be fair, I actually use two different computers but that's not the point.
I recently added a Huion display tablet to my set up after many years of using a small Intuous without a display, and now I consider my set up incredibly unintuitive. As was mentioned in the video, it would SEEM that having a display tablet is the way to 'level up' but it's good to see that others can show that's not the case. My set up is now 5x more complicated than it ever was with the 'cheap' tablet.
I used to use an intuos up now I use a Huion Kamvas Studio 22. My computer broke down, so I also use it for school work. That’s my whole setup.
Well, I have a Wacom Cintiq 21 and it sits almost straight, thanks to the stand it comes with, and it's very comfortable. I never lean on it and draw from my shoulder. My arm doesn't get too tired because the tablet isn't completely straight and I can rest on it a little bit. Plus, getting up every hour to rest and to stretch helps. Now, I naturally have a very good posture, which many people don't. I would recommend a non-display tablet like an Intuos for most people for the reasons you said. People are used to write and draw over the paper since forever and when transitioning to digital art, most people won't change that habit. Anyways, I've loved both my first tablet which was an Intuos4 small and the Cintiq 21.
This is one of my favorite videos of yours, you just look so joyous about comfortable drawing
This was one of the most beneficial, honest and uplifting videos I have seen in a while. It makes so much more sense and I wish others would take his advice. I'm going back to an Intuous too as the drawing display monitors have just been missing something and the prices are insane! I would rather look straight ahead and work. The disconnect that so many talk about with the drawing tablets is only due to lack of practice and once you get comfortable with it, and get a proper stand,....you will never want the display monitors again. You can get a medium sized Intuous for a fraction of what those giant display monitors and as mentioned in the video,..take the extra cash and spend it on your actual computer monitor.
I totally agree, I switched to a display tablet last year thinking it would make me more motivated to draw but it did the opposite. It feels so uncomfortable working on the 13" display with my hand in the way and leaning over the desk constantly, I tried everything to make it more ergonomic but nothing compared to using a regular tablet. I'm going to try a similar setup with 'duplictate display' turned on so I can look up at my monitor again. Just ordered an ergonomic chair too so hopefully that will also help. Thanks for another great video!
me, whose hoping to get a 13" pen display
*"I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that."*
@@daixensorest haha, I hope I didn't put you off. 13" display is great for some and too small for others, personally I would get a larger one if i was to get another in the future (maybe 20"+) but I'm happy with my current setup atm
@@daixensorest dont do it ... its frustrating , in digtal you already have to draw a bit bigger than with pen and paper to get a similar fidelity , 13" is nothing , 16 is the absolute minimum, you better go for the christmas deals and get a 2020 22" display from houn or xp-pen . i had a galaxy book 12" for the last 2 years and it was just frustrating and not worth it, have only been using it for sketches, and raw drawings ..
@@alexmehler6765 the thing is that I have a pen tablet that's about 10" by 6" (I don't really remember exactly) that I use with a 20" monitor, but I only use about 5" by 3" of the space. I don't really think getting a 22" tablet would be good for me with how I like to draw and space issues tbh. But I really appreciate all the advice I'm getting :D lol
@@reece5390 not entirely, but I'm definitely lowering my expectations to more reasonable levels lolol. I think I'll be fine tho, I've comfortably drew on my phone for about half a year lol
i'm 23 and already have back problems which have gotten increasingly worse since i started drawing 2 years ago, i currently have an ipad and when i saw that stand i immediately went to buy one, thank you for this video man
Wow this video is so refreshing - Thank you!
And perfect timing....I was getting swept up in the marking BS out there when I already have an Intuos 4 and was considering alternative. Then I saw your video and also remembered a Zbrush artist mentioning the same argument as you, that display tablets cause body pain and injuries over time and he also mentioned you lose the advantage of seeing your hole drawing / sculpture without the hand obscuring parts of the picture.
In a way, regular “old” drawing tablets just may be the real magic of digital art - They allow us to pick our perfect display and setup for our bodies. Making the best of technology.
I bought an iPad Pro late last year, and from my experience of using a non-display Wacom Intuos Pro, and using the iPad pro, something I can add is that I feel like the non-display tablet is actually the most fluid experience, after you get use to the hand-eye coordination thing, which doesn't take long at all - ALTHOUGH:
As someone with a more painterly approach, I actually find this to be the case for the non-display Intuos Pro because I can be fluid, and my hand isn't covering like 30% of the screen that I should be looking at.
But, sometimes I want to have a more precise approach, sometimes including lineart to get a more cel shaded effect, I actually find it very arduous to attempt to line using a non-display tablet, and I think that display tablets are really handy if your style relies a lot on more precise strokes.
All of us non-display tablet artists know what lining is like - draw a line, undo, draw a line, undo, draw a line, undo, draw a line, undo - is that good enough? Eh, undo, draw your line, undo, rinse and repeat until you get a line you're pleased with that follows your sketch.
You articulated what I was trying to say about drawing precise lines. I agree that drawing precise lines on a non-display is difficult. And this is coming from someone who tried it for many years!
sketching and drawing(and writing) is very hard on a tablet, its so unnatural , you will always be a bit off angle. i also tried for many years, and it just doesnt work out
had a talk with my art discord a while ago and we came to the same conclusion as you do! I'm always for display tablets but that's because my style (and goals) rely heavily on precise lineart and cel shading, which is something I can achieve easier and faster on this XP pen of mine. I have nothing against non-screen tablets but I don't think they're for me... or at least I gotta just get a bigger tablet than a pewn & touch medium lmao.... I'm even considering gettign a bracket stand for my display tablet after watching this video.
I ...think... inclined tables such as those that animators use (also draftsmen, etc.) are like that because they're a compromise between laying stuff flat and completely horizontal which makes your drawings get distorted because of your position/perspective, and making them stand perfectly vertical which would be really tiresome and would make your arm, especially your shoulder, hurt so much.
The real problem with horizontal is that gravity throws the paper to the ground.
Boro your setup is literally insane. Bonkers. You're too powerful and I respect you
This video is really helpful. Thank you so much🌸
You helped me answer 2 questions I had been asking myself for the last two days -- go figure!! I find your vids informative and amusing! Thanks much!!
9:20 Actually what I did was to use my drawing display as a drawing tablet at the same time. So you can see the strokes on your monitor and in your drawing display simultaneously, fixing both world issues with a good posture like you said hahaha I hope is a useful tip for someone!
That's the same way artist/youtuber Marc Brunet does too.
@@inisipisTV Ohh really?? I didnt know! I also watch Marc, he is THE GOAT!
For those who still want the second monitor for references etc, you can open a second window of the same drawing in CSP (& some other drawing programs). Just drag that to the other monitor and switch which window has focus as needed.
@@inisipisTV is there a video how he uses it?
What you said makes a lot of sense, ergonomics should be valued more when deciding on a product! Great insight, thanks!
Yes, ergonomics is the elephant in the room with display-tablets. The manufacturers NEVER mention it.
Ayyy, first time this early! So happy :D
I felt like I needed to tell my big screen display tablet to cover its ears while watching this video 😂 Super good advice! Definitely changed my dream setup plans.
Boro: your drawing setup sucks
me: *realizes im hunched over my drawing tablet on my bed*
New channel coming up: BoroMods
This was really helpful. I'm considering a Cintiq 16 because I'm so in love with the idea of the drawing display. I didn't think at all about the ergonomics. I never used a graphics tablet so thought that the display was the way to go. Still not sure which I'll choose but you've made me think about set-up and what will be best for my body as well as my art. Thank you!
Another great video. Thank you.
I just spent the last several years using the Wacom Intuos Pro and saved and upgraded to the Wacom Cintiq 24 with the Flex Arm. I have to say you couldn’t be more wrong for me. My posture was fuuuuucked using the the screenless Intuos. Having the Cintiw has allowed me to work in a variety of ways no, my workflow has sped up and one major benefit I didn’t expect... I’m drawing way way more accurately than I ever have before
How was your posture fucked using the Intuos Pro? Weren't you sitting straight looking at your screen while drawing?
Okay but did you use a stand with your intuos (or propped it in any way) and did you have your monitor at the proper height?
@@dpcdpc11 I'm asking the same question...
Same here. I can't sit straight while drawing with a non-display tablet. My spine just bends like 70 degrees and it hurts like hell. Especially after +4 hours of drawing. I'm saving money for a better tablet now but unfortunately currency sucks :')
Accuracy and speed I can understand, but since non-screen tablets are the only solution that functionally allow for "perfect" posture, any posture problems are just user error xD
Great vid! I've used wacom cintiqs over 10 years, but finally "upgraded" to an xp-pen 13.3 artist pro. The thing I couldn't accomplish with the Cintiq was drawing the initial sketch... just for some reason my hand/eye coordination wasn't adequate. Drawing on the screen seems to help me with starting the drawing and then I switch to my upright monitor.
Thank you for all the insight!
Watching this vid 7 months ago helped me take a chill pill and work with I got, and my setup still looks soo good. It really is all about ones ability to perceive. Hugeee shoutout to Boro for recommending Fishman, to this day I still use his courses as references, my art went through the roof, not to mention the efficiency and time. He is definitely an underrated artist.
wow, you have really nailed this advice. I am 51 and just got into digital art. It is no wonder I find it so much more comfortable to sit on the couch and draw on my ipad rather than my cintiq 16. When I sit on my couch with my ipad I sit with my knees up and lean my ipad on my knees so my back is much straighter but it is still not ideal. I really need to look at changing how I sit at my computer for sure. Thank you for the reminder. T x
If You will go to WAR for Non-Display Tablets I will be more than glad to Join you 😁 Me personally love Non-Display Tablets, not only its good for you but also you will never be covering your damn screen with your hand 😅
Yes! The hand covering the screen, I never even mentioned that.
BoroCG another great point!
rly? i imagine how much you hate non-CG drawing lol
I actually prefer the normal drawing tablet setup as well. :D
@@ZArtifiziert same!
The tall aluminum stand has been working pretty well for me, I use it with 12.9 inch iPad and it's definitely helping with my back and neck pains.
Thank you so much!
Great video, like always.
I wonder how much Wacom would charge me for a time machine, so I could have watched this video before buying a Cintiq that never made me happy.
I find screenless tablets better as well. It's good for posture, your hand doesn't cover up the screen, you can stick a piece of paper to it for better texture and still work normally and personally I had no issues adjusting my workflow. Just recently I switched back to a screenless after using ipad pro 2018 for a few months, since, apart from losing in the ways I mentioned before, its pressure sensitivity was much more rigid, I had to charge everything all the time and I had no additional keyboard or screen protectors, meaning I had to give up using shortcuts and work with a very glossy screen.
Ig it is very subjectivea, seeing how a few people commented on how they had difficulties working the way you have to with a screenless tablet, but if you're looking for what to get I'd still advise you to give them your best shot before you completely dismiss it.
Him: your drawing setups sucks
Me lying down on my back with my iPad balancing on a big ass pillow: yeah probably
Hey, thx for the video! After watching I bought an N8 stand and I love it. 😁
I remember you either reviewing or talking about a laptop/tablet stand which I think you were using with your companion. It had 3 bends and Ive been using the knock off ebay version for the last year or so with my cintiq and it's been working wonders with my current setup. The stand is set up similar to those desks animators use and I have a comfy chair now so woo!
Only minor inconvenience is the hastle of packing it away and setting it up again if I need the desk space for something else.
Thank you for saying this! I'm just a hobby artist but i have felt intuitively that digital displays are not ideal for me, but I was totally falling for it just because it looks cooler, i guess? I do hope that all the new stuff is driving down the price of regular tablets a little so I could actually afford one and just buy a used ipad or something when i feel like experimenting
Thank you. Life changing. Going back to my non display.
*Thats awesome! Thanks for sharing! :)*
my only struggle with screenless tablets is my hand-eye coordination, but I know it'll be developed over time. the only reason I want to try a display tablet is for that
Once I've seen a video about a professional writer who writes on an iPad instead of a PC or laptop because he feels alienated when he's unable to touch the written words on his device.
I can imagine that a display could function the same way for some people, so it's necessary for them to be able to work. For me, who was born in 98 and grew up with PCs and video game consoles (Chinese Nintendo copies), it is totally natural to draw on a simple tablet and see what I'm doing on a different monitor.
I think the only thing I would contend with is that having a screen display tablet works really well for hand drawn animation. When it comes to doing tight inbetweens, it helps to have your hand right in front of your for that needed precision. When I'm loosely drawing or painting however, looking up at the main monitor seems to do the job just fine.
Thank you so much for this video! I'm a beginner and I'm using a basic tablet flat on a desk. I'll absolutely look for a stand. ALSO: I thought that a screen tablet "is better because the pros are using those" and this video helped me realize that there are huge tradeoffs in ergonomy.
Will you make a video on the new Artstudio Pro update when it releases?
Please give us the ali links! My back needs this rising stand very badly
This is by far the best video on ergonomics for digital artists i've watched.
I was in the middle of drawing a really ambitious piece when I clicked on this video. I have a Wacom 16" paired with a high refresh rate Dell monitor, and I never even thought to orientate my setup this way. Immediately I feel more comfortable and more willing to finish this digital art, thanks Boro! I might start doing art this way from now on.
That's interesting and its true that drawing is obviously not the best thing you can do for your health (and just sitting in general). However as i'm working traditionnally most of the time i cant find a solution that would prevent me from bending at least a little bit. Except maybe an easel that would allow me to draw standing
theres those belt things or jacket looking things you put on to correct your posture....or the shoulders....you can try that as a reminder to help your poster a bit
There are drawing desks which can tilt as you need them to. Most are quite big though. And I’m not sure about price. Boro brought up manga artists but people who do architecture have them as well. If I’m remembering correctly.
Yeah look into "drafting tables", I had a look and they're not that expensive. Had some at school and they're really good.
Jonathan Caridia Ah that’s the one! Couldn’t remember the name.
@@karidyas00 Yep ur right, i got a used one some time ago and tbh i could not draw without it now, this thing is spine saving :p But as i was saying, i still have to lean forward a little bit so its not as good as drawing with a screenless tablet in terms of posture. But that's better than nothing and to me beeing able to see your hand while drawing is extremely valuable for precise linework (not so much for painting tho), so for now i'm okay with this setup :)
I am Japan 2D Animator.
I want to say about drawing tablet vs drawing display thingy too.
First. line speed(drawing display is winner).
Japan animators incomes depands all about how much drawings you finish per month (called "dekidaka" in Japanese), and drawing on a tablet will slow you down no matter how you try to adapt to your settings. one stroke to finish one line, instead of two or more strokes and some ctrl+z, will mean more income for that month! And drawing display helps a lot when it comes to line drawing accuracy.
But if you are a painter, not a how fast and super accurate can you draw line machine(like animators or manga artists), benefit of cintiq can be not that big of a deal.
Second. back comfort(drawing tablet is winner).
Yes I also think you are right! drawing display needs to raise your arm, thus will cause some stress on your shoulder and neck and back. And closer display can be stress to your eyes too(I recommend 120 nit brightness). These pains differ from person to person, but it is there.
Actually some people mirror cintiq monitor to their second monitor, to display the same thing. and switch eye to the display they want for comfort and color accuracy. You will need one more display from your setup now, but this kind of (not perfectly but) solves this drawing tablet vs drawing display thingy.
I'm with you on the non-display tablets. I've had my Cintique 13-inch since 2014. It was great for a few years but when I was forced to go back to a non-display tablet, my drawing quality didn't noticeably drop. The benefit to posture stuck out to me the most.
nice video! thanks for the tips
having trouble finding the stand with the adjustable height, could you post the company name?
www.amazon.co.uk/Djzpp-Stand%EF%BC%8CN8-Notebook-Aluminum-Dissipation/dp/B08D6KBK8H/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=n8+laptop+stand&qid=1599490065&sr=8-3
"You can sit straight... like a normal human being." :D
thank you for sharing, you are very inspiring
One thing I've found to be a good combination with drawing tablets, with or without a screen, are physically split keyboards. That way you can have each half of your keyboard on either side of the screen/tablet. Of course, it kind of requires you to know touch typing and you may need to remap some of your keyboard shortcuts to the left half of your keyboard (assuming you're right handed). Just make sure you get one with a long enough cable between the two halves, so you have space for the tablet in the middle. Currently I'm using a Mistel Barocco keyboard, which works great...though I did have to get a longer USB cable between the two halves, as the one that came with it is way too short.
Could you please do a tutorial on how to get the intuos 3 driver to work, I've been trying but when I use the older drivers I can't seem to find where to configure the intuos 3
I would definitely disagree that this kind of set-up with a non-display tablet is "objectively" better, because that assumes that all humans are exactly the same in terms of their biology, visual/spacial perception, personal comfort, workflow, etc. I'm glad this set-up works well for you (and that you've finally found it after years of struggling with ways that were wrong for you), but for me, getting my Cintiq was a game-changer not only for my artwork, but also for my efficiency, engagement with the work itself, and yes, even my posture. :-)
I used Wacom non-display tablets for fifteen years before I got my Cintiq 22HD in 2015, so I have plenty of experience with both types of tools, but just having the direct hand-eye connection with my brush strokes alone was well worth the changeover to the Cintiq. I have it mounted to an Ergotron monitor arm that I can move, tilt, and rotate in whatever way feels comfortable. I usually have it pulled all the way up to the edge of my desk and tilted to about a 45 degree angle, and I find that infinitely more comfortable that when I used to work on my Intuos tablet.
totally agree. I have one of those yoga laptops with wacom pen and I was really happy painting on it. But one day, I decided to switch to an old wacom bamboo tablet, and man...is a relief for my back!
Thanks for adding this little part about the XP-Pen Innovator 16! Even including a short clip of it. I just watched your review about it since I'm looking to get a new display tablet and after many reviews, my decision is the Innovator 16.
One downside that's a huge concern to me is the crap stand with no ergonomic adjustability. Then I ran into this video which opened my eyes to iPad/display/laptop stands which I'll definitely be researching now, thank you!
You're down to earth and funny and I love the content I've seen so far from you! I'll definitely be sticking around ^^
You are so right Boro. Unfortunately I don't think people are going to get it until they feel the pain and discomfort from bad ergonomic set ups. I feel so much better and more productive since I switched from a drawing display (now my 2nd monitor) to a large Intuos drawing tablet.
Defintely understand thinking you "need" a drawing display, but honestly I just can't get past how long it takes me to draw something on a tablet vs drawing on paper. It may be the size of the tablet or the way I set it up but learning the hand eye coordination has been rough.
12:52 The most amazing table setup ever!!! I'm totally in love for a tilted table!
really interesting. as someone who's always looking for a more comfortable setup I may try this. I never thought to play around with tablet setup, so I may give that a go. thanks!
Me, who doesn't have a stand for my drawing tablet: *My pain...is far more greater than yours!*
That old intuos is just stupid big :D
I bought a 16 inch display tablet and after 2 days of struggling I put it aside. It caused very bad wrist pain, my arms were in air with no support.
Now I use a large intuos pro and my drawing and line art has improved a lot. I think my problems were mental and I really had believed I'm missing out. Unlike what I've heard the pen display didn't make me faster.
This video is REALLY useful.
I've been drawing on Wacom tablets for over 25 years and have also come to the conclusion a long time ago that drawing directly on a display is just ergonomically inferior to the separate tablet/display set-up. One other advantage is that you have a very clear view of what you're drawing versus having your arm and hand partly covering your work. I use a Kinesis Freestyle keyboard so that the two halves can sit on either side of the tablet in the center.
Literallty just bought myself an intuos pro large, because I always ended up back on my little cheap intuos no matter waht screen type tablet I tried - more comfy for me to not have a display to hunch over. I might just grab a stand for it now! Cause I always find my chair's arm getting in the way of my arm motions when I try and draw with my little tablet at my desk.
It's definitely more about if you can afford a full on large display with the ergonomic arm stand, and if that is comfortable for you, since some people can't get the hand-eye coordination and overcome that disconnect, or even just don't want to at least.
I also have my iPad Pro 10.5" 2017 and love it, so I won't miss a screen for drawing on my PC, I did learn to draw on an intuos though, so I don't mind the disconnect
Yeah about the armrests: I always remove those from my chairs, they're always in the way
My setup is I mounted my display tablet on an arm (like what you have with your monitor), while I still have my old non-display tablet hooked up. I switch between the two from time to time using the display tablet as a tablet, or just as a monitor. Sometimes, I pull the arm up to its highest point and draw standing up.
I noticed that I really can't work on a single type of set-up, so the adjustable arm is a godsend.
As for the shaking whenever I use a higher... uh... height, I just put books or small boxes on the bottom of the display tablet.
I always knew this... ergonomics first! - you got the right point here.. great vid.. tnx
While I agree about the ergonomics of non-display tablets I can only complete about 50-70% of a digital art piece with one, the disconnect between my surface and art just doesn’t work for me
honestly this video helped me stop thinking about buying a drawing display. Thank you :)
Thanks for the recommendation. Going to pick this up n save my back from aches n pain.
great advice! This is so true
Totally agree with you on having a stand to improve ergonomics. I'm using my Intuos Pro/5 on an Ikea laptop stand _(BRÄDA_ I think), and it is *really* comfortable
Those stands are great at home! But I tried to take one to a Starbucks and it felt awkward. So I leave it at the house now. They are also super cheap! Less than 10 bucks! I’m in the market for a lightweight portable folding one now.
I've been wondering the same thing with the screen tablets, and how they're always seen as the standard. Personally I've never tried one, so I assumed there must truly be something great about them... but after thinking, I couldn't really come up with any good reasons! Reasons for a regular screenless tablet however? I like being able to use a small tablet so that I don't have to move my hand around a lot, it's nice not to cover the painting with your hand, and the ability to not have to hunch over is definitely another plus.
(As a side note regarding the "argument" for traditional drawing flat on the desk: most professional traditional artists would also keep the paper, if not straight up, then at least at an angle on a drawing board, which is pretty much a requirement for academic drawing at least. Traditional or digital, you should never have to work in a bad position!)
The standard tablet like this one are fine and can be slightly better for ergonomics I agree on that . but tablet monitors are better because you don’t need to learn how to have hands eyes coordination like with a normal tablet. You can just pick the pen and you start to draw like you usually do on paper.
iPad is so popular for drawing because it’s like to draw on paper . It’s the same for cintiqs tablets monitors in general. For people that never paint digitally tablet monitors are also far easier to use than standard tablets . It’s not a commercial thing. They are just more common now because they are far cheaper and you can also draw on iPad .
But if you can afford only a tablet or you are more comfortable with the standard one is totally fine. I think they are better for photo editing but for drawing they usually slow down your work a lot. Especially if you do a lot of digital inking, lineart and such . My 2 cent
@@firagamwich1864 That's possible yeah, I've never done inking, lineart etc so I can't speak much for that. For painting I never found it difficult with the eye-hand cordination honestly, it took me a very short time to get used to it. Would still love to try a screen tablet just to see if there's a significant difference!
I've got the Xp-pen 22-e for my desktop. That's more than big enough and can be adjusted so it isn't physically uncomfortable to work on. The only think I don't like about it is that it doesn't allow for multitouch controls. And I find it difficult to go back to it after getting so used to the i-pad.
All I do with the Ipad is fold the flip sheeth over a padded laptop rest and lean that on my legs if I'm on the go. Basically how you'd use a sketchbook. Or I put it on my actual drawing desk and adjust it the way I would with paper.
Drawing displays definitely aren't just a marketing fad. There's absolutely no way I could go back to using an old tablet design. Being able to see where you're drawing is always going to be a big plus, but with the interaction that something like an ipad gives you, being able to quickly resize and rotate your canvas. It's bringing the best parts about traditional media to the best parts of digital. If I could get a display that worked as well as the ipad in the 22inch form factor for my PC, I'd never look back.
I really agree with you on the display tablet thing for drawing on desktop. I could have upgraded to an affordable huion display tablet at least 5 years ago but I've stuck to my wacom intuos pro I've had since 2011 because I believe it's better for my back and for the fact that my hand is never blocking my view of what I'm drawing. Instead of having a stand, when I'm in the 'zone' i tend to place it on a cushion I can easily mould and tilt to get a better angle for my shoulder. I've also not had almost any trouble with drivers or connection errors.
I use a piece of watercolour paper taped onto the surface to protect the surface and to give a more pleasing drawing texture that I change out every month or so when it becomes worn. Since I don't need to ensure the surface is transparent to see the display, watercolour paper is far more affordable. The only thing I had to replace was the stylus once in 2015 because the first one broke (luckily wacom sells them separately) and the micro USB cable once or twice (luckily I've had at least a dozen micro USB cables floating around for forever).
I did end up getting an iPad pro in 2018 for portability and comfort, which I use quite a bit but it'll never beat the pad tablet + desktop on photoshop combo I've created over my 9 years of digital drawing.
i just use cheap-ass aluminum easel as a cintiq stand. less than $10 and does the job.
I think I'll just make a stand out of clay at this point.
I did it a while back.. i got a drawing display and i regret it. Any recommendations for chairs that can help my back while drawing?
Get a monitor, and use the drawing display as a tablet, and the monitor to see the artwork.
@@AndriaSilvaful that is what I now do, huions colour inaccuracy kept worsening and I can highly recommend a good display over tablet display
This video blowed my mind!
I had never minded to use a stand on my pen tablet! It makes totally sense, much more ergonomic. My wrist thank it!
Hi. I also have the same exact intuos as you and I'm still loving it 11 years in. It's so worth the money, never had to buy another.