Honda K-Series Cylinder Head Tech
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- By popular demand, after watching our Short Block Guide video ( • K-series Short Block G... ) many of you asked for a video on the k-series head--so here you go!
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
2:11 - Drag Cartel head
4:30 - Drag Cartel Stage IV Cams
9:35 - Supertech valves and springs
14:00 - WPC and Cryogenic treatments
17:22 - Other head options
24:50 - Intake manifolds and Throttle bodies
28:40 - Conclusion
LINKS:
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I'm an aerospace/mechanical engineer that works on flying things for a living. This breakdown of material selection is world class and needs to be shown in engineering schools.
Thank you!
@@motoiq Please do a camshaft video series, Mike! 🙏🏾
All of us engineers know that this would never happen.
Yeah as an engineer this stuff hits different 🤩🤩🤩🤩
Materials engineer here and appreciate the crystal structure talk too lol
With all due respect; this gentleman is like Mr. Miyagi of the tuner world.
Wise and Majestic, calm demeanor make his plethora of knowledge a treat to learn from.
Love the channel; please continue the K series content; and more of the Project EP3!
I would love to see this kind of video for the B-series engines. They're old tech compared to the K, but they're still pretty widespread and it would be a great video.
Next time we get one in we will do it. We just love the K!
We documented a B series build here, we actually get more power nowadays with better cams, manifolds, headwork and headers now available, we learned a lot since them. But for a mild pump gas build, this series is still very relevant. motoiq.com/category/projects/honda/ej-civic/
I feel like with all the aftermarket tech and the diminishing B motors that people want $4500 for… you’re better off going k series. However, this comes from thought of savings, power and ease of build. Meaning, if you have to go B series because they are the best sounding motors ever or simply because you just want to. Do your thing!!! GSR is the most fun stock motor I’ve ever had. And were the door into the K series. 🤜🏻
I don't even have a K motor yet for my Lotus, and I'm DIGGING THIS VIDEO!
Be sure and check out our bottom end video ua-cam.com/video/rSqNFNOTdGM/v-deo.html
@@motoiq Don't worry, bookmarked it!
Exactly just buying a JDM K24A2 to swap into another vehicle but the end goal is a fully built supercharged Frankenstein to throw into a cheap Elise
Oh boy couldn't click on this quick enough, cheers mike for all you do. Especially on the k-series 🤘🏻
Be sure and check out our bottom end video ua-cam.com/video/rSqNFNOTdGM/v-deo.html
Never disappointing watching your videos. Thanks so much!!
Perfect timing! Thanks for another great video Mike.
Enjoy!
Need to send this video to gears and gasoline
I am pretty sure their engine didn't make good power because the cams were too small, it had a stock head, possibly the headers and exhaust were a wrong match and RWD drivetrains eat about 5-10% more power on the dyno than FWD. That being said, I don't think making maximum streetable power was their goal, it was more about reaching 10k rpm. The build and parts selection were solid.
@@motoiq hahah, the timing on releasing the video is almost convenient
@MotoIQ yes thank you. I debated with people that rwd will have more loss of power than fwd. I always said, fwd is faster than rwd to certain power, even with some wheel spins. Maybe at 350hp plus than rwd would be more beneficial. That's my thought.
For what?
Send to Jimmy Oakes
Such a smart person I own a car service is Bulgaria trying to do some stuff different from the normal I like u a lot and u are inspiration for me.
It was a hobby and now it’s a job I learn a lot from u! Thank you and keep upload❤
Another super amazing video. Was brought to this video via suggestion from my having viewed the K24A bottom end build video. Pure magical money.
Amazing content as always!
This was very well done. Long live the 4A-GE 16V
Thanks for giving Honda some love.
I love videos like this. Your experience with TRD definitely makes me know you're legit.
I appreciate that! A lot of 4AG "Experts" apparently dismiss that.
Perfect timing cause I just took mine apart yesterday! I'm guessing mine and your customer's are going to be very similar builds. Great video as usual. ☺
Hope you enjoy it!
That cam knowledge is pretty amazing.
Very informative video. Thank you!
I would love to see a video on building a K-series engine for a turbo or supercharger. Discuss compression ratios, valve train options, and bottom end considerations. Thanks for the great videos!
motoiq.com/extreme-engine-tech-building-the-ultimate-k24-part-3-the-finished-goods/ It is kinda old and there are better options now days but here is what we did. Most K motors customers want big NA power.
@@motoiqI've got a friend interested in building a turbo K24/20 to be used in a daily street car. Everyone has their own interpretation on the max rev limit for a K24, would you suggest 7500rpm limit as an all the time limit? People have gone further it appears long-term reliability becomes a concern.
Great video! Great information about the ins and outs of the K series!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love these videos. Great job explaining everything 👍
Honda K-Series engines are fantastic
Thanks! 👍
AMAZING episode
I love your breakdown and explanation of engines, components and theory. Thank you for taking the time to teach us ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just great as usual
I love your videos guys. You do a great job at explaining technical nuances in a manner that make sense to everyone.
I was wondering what Mike’s background is. Where did he get training and does he have a material engineering degree because he is super knowledgeable?
I am a mechanical engineer with an OEM Manufacture and Motorsports background.
I love your videos and all the science behind your videos. Could you make a video on the H/F series. Im building a nice road race f20b and would like to learn more it. Thank you
If someone wants us to we will, we have a customer interested in an H Series build so we may have one somewhat soon.
Always smiling man. This is college right here, boys.
This guy is smart! I would let him build my motor any day of the week.
Another informative video. Thanks Bruddah!
You bet!
I would love to see these Drag Cartell heads for the L28 like you see from Datsunworks in their KN20.
That's a cool kit!
Great video
Absolutely love these videos, can you touch ok the right compression for the right build?
The three main things are; forced induction, NA, fuel type
"If you like this content" sheesh, I LOVE this content!! Don't mind me, just stopping by for a rewatch. ;)
Wooo yeah! K Series ONLY
Be sure and check out our bottom end video ua-cam.com/video/rSqNFNOTdGM/v-deo.html
your videos are best..
Thank you so much 😀
Thank you for the video, saved!
Glad it helped!
Video: Showcase part swap explainer
Me: ooooh another Tuner podcast, this one's gold!
I love his videos.
Thank you man!! 🙏🏽✌🏽
This series is fantastic! Thanks so much.
What about the J motors? More cylinders, more better, right??
J motor is a good cheap swap but more for street and strip stuff, I would much rather have 150-175 fewer lbs on the nose of an already nose-heavy FF car. Also, the K motor is awesome and a J is just a blah SOHC engine and the Few DOHC versions are not Vtec.
This guy is a car wizard!!
The k is great but I'm excited about the new j35y8!!!! Finally the nsx dohc head on a 3+ liter v6!!! I want to swap my S2000 this summer could you touch base on the j35y8?
I wanna know your options on engine oil and lubricants tbh
There are cnc porting services that map out ports on a computer then are they bench flow tested to see the results? I went with a decades experienced Honda head porter that does all this by hand you may know. Tom of Portflow in Harbor City Ca for my K20c1 head and the results along with radius valve job, upgraded valve train using Ferrea components and a 4 Piston TR2 camshafts has performed very well removing that fuel tumbling bottle neck flowing about 300 cfm now.
Great videos as always. I have an 08 civic si with 04-08 TSX K24 bottom end. Bottom only has type R ported oil pump and fluidampr balancer. The top end I went all out. 4P 156 cnc ported head with everything and their RR3 cams with 50* gear. I am hearing all different things on max safe rpm and max VTC safely??? This thing runs amazing with only using 30*, but can I use more safely? Can valve to Piston clearance be checked with a bore scope?
With a stock bottom end, I would not take it past 8k. If you do track days, 7800 is a good limit. The rod bolts can break. Excellent head choice BTW. We rev VTC engines to 9k plus a little. You probably can check piston-to-valve and valve-to-valve clearance with a borescope. We use clay. You need to lock the VTC in the max advanced position when doing this. The good thing about running a 4P combo is they probably can tell you whats safe because they engineered the combo, if you mix and match parts, that's when you need to check clearances yourself.
You said a smaller throttle body helps with throttle response, but I guess you meant throttle control? With big throttles it is hard to control the torque when road racing, the response is usually quite excellent. Also cool to know cyro and WPC does lengthen service life when you go far outside the OEM design parameters, I did not expect that. As usual thanks for the video!
Yes what you said.
Very interesting video, What you think of the Skunk2 ultra 1 camshaft on a k20?
We prefer Drag Cartel very much.
Any chance you guys could do an in-depth look at the FA20 in the 86/BRZ/FRS, for a track car build?
We did on our website motoiq.com/building-an-fa20-race-engine-for-michele-abbate-part-1/ motoiq.com/building-an-fa20-race-engine-for-michele-abbate-part-2/
How do the Duratec 4 cylinder engines stack up to their contemporaries? I have read about them putting down some pretty respectful N/A numbers with cams and was curious if you guys have any experience working with them? I love your content by the way!
They are strong motors and are good for forced induction. They are not going to outpower a K motor NA though.
I'm surprised you recommand the RBC instead of the RRC intake manifold, i've tried to find more informations about intakes manifolds for my type R and it was allways the RRC one that was recommanded. I loved the vidéo ! i've learned a lot , Thank you !
Both are good manifolds, the RRC manifold might be better with a DBW throttle.
I wonder if a ceramic coating like what Swain Tech offers could compliment the cryo and WPC in extending spring life. It's supposed to hold onto oil to help control temps like you were mentioning. Thinking about it the surface finish created by WPC might already do that about as well as an oleophilic compound and is why they're staying cooler and living better. Thank you for the great camshaft info! I'd never heard of an inverted flank! Heck i never even considered that profiles would have to be different between cam on bucket and all the follower systems. I've got some research to do!
Swains ceramic coating doesnt flex well and would flake off and also hold heat in. Swains black body radiation coating might be a better choice. The trouble is coatings don't stick to WPC treated surfaces very well.
Thank you! Thinking about it this is at least the second time you've explained this to me You're awesome! I promise i'll be better
Once you WPC treat, you'll never go back to coatings to reduce friction.
Very nice gentleman
Excellent content as usual!!
I currently have a JDM K24a2 long block with full bolt ons and oil pump upgrade, head has DC 2.2s and supertech valvetrain with 50°vtc
Would there be any benefit in porting my head or do I need higher compression pistons to take advantage of it? Running on 91 octane?
Also i have a J37 throttle body with 80mm inlet that tappers down to 70mm outlet, is it best to have the cold air intake pipe the same size as the throttle body inlet or would I benefit going slightly bigger to say 3.5 inch piping?
The K20A head flows better, we uses ported K20A heads on our builds. 3.5 is probably too big, probably 3.25 is good.
SO . MUCH. KNOWLEDGE.
When speaking about the RBC and the Throttle bodies, a common thing to do is re-route/delete the coolant going to the throttle body and use isolating (thermal) gaskets from the throttle body back, would IAT effect performance more on top of the RBC to begin with? For instance I can comfortably hold my hand on my RBC manifold after a long drive, is it a quantifiable amount?
Some testing others have done recently shows that the gains are so small they hard to measure. My opinion is that its cheap and sure doesnt hurt to make the intake cooler so do it.
Thanks once again for a massively informative video. Do you have any leads on where to get the best Mega-lightweight VTEC Killer kit for my out and out circuit race engine ?
Ferrea makes them.
@@motoiq Thanks.
I love your informative videos. Keep up the good work. How much does the compression ratio affect the power output? Max compression I as thinking was 12:1. Basically looking at building a road race engine run on 98 octane gas. Is it ok to skimp money on say pistons and spend more on the head and cams?
No, don't do that. If anything spend less on the head porting.
But isn't the head where most of the power is found? The power figures you mention in the videos are these at the crank?
You break a ring land or the pin boss pushing stock pistons, you are in for a world of hurt. You don't port the head you just make less power.
I'm curious what they can do with a like a K20C1 in the FK8/FL5 Type-R's. Specifically like a bulletproof reliable street/track setup for these.
God these videos are awesome
You seem smart enough to actually engineer a really good engine for car manufacturers.
Some aspects of it for sure but there is a lot of stuff going on in engines now days that makes it beyond the ability of just one person.
@MotoIQ I understand that. It takes a team of engineers to design an engine. Market team to see if its cost effective. Like ayrton senna, he stress that nsx chassis should be more stiff. You could could be the one convinced everyone to add all the performance feature.
No one listened to me when I was working at a big auto manufacture hahahaha.
In a track/time attack application with a close ratio gearbox on a turbo motor, would it make sense to get rid of vtec there? I have heard the vtec mechanism is very violent on valve springs.
I would probably keep it, I would review data to see if deleting VTec would hurt. In most cases it would.
0:20 Imagine him ending the video right there after that sentence! 😂
Could you do a video on what manual transmissions can hold to this type of power and their ratios please?
What level of power. The FWD six speed is good for about the high 300's. There are options to handle more power, the costs go way up.
Dang it, i spent too much money on my k24a2 head already. Can you make a video on k24a2 head. Btw your videos are so informative, thank you
That head is actually fine. You didn't waste your money.
Could you do a comparison between the a K series and a FA head to show why the K series flows so well?
The heads are so different it's sort of pointless. The K series flows and order of magnitude better.
Great info.
Glad it was helpful!
@@motoiq Motoiq has been helpful since I was running a P10 track car. Now I race a DC5R, you're still doing the business. Would you consider doing an article or series on N/A K24's? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would enjoy hearing your experiences.
We have a bunch of other NA K24 content here and on MotoIQ.con
I gotta k20a2 that had a blown head gasket sitting in the garage for almost 3 years now
what's a good header for this kind of build ? Also is it worth port matching the RBC manifold to the type S cylinder head ?
We like ASP headers for strong K motors. www.aspheaders.com/ For race motors, myerscompetition.bigcartel.com/ Yes, match porting is good. Just don't make the manifold bigger than the intake port and take manifold alignment into consideration.
Hey guys. Question about throttle body size and turbo applications. Would it be beneficial on a turbo setup to have a 90mm throttle body with a centerfeed, (center-inlet as you mentioned) intake manifold? My second question is about having a centerfeed intake manifold and running the risk of getting major heat soak because the intake is generally right behind the radiator. Let me know what your thoughts are please, I really appreciate it. Thank for all ya's do. Cheers from Canada, Ontario!
For a drag car yes, for anything else no. Heat soak is a minor issue. Sure it's better to duct the radiator but the power loss due to the radiator discharge is negligible.
Would it be possible to get video for 4b11T, D16z6 and or F20b?
Also appreciate the video
If you go to motoiq.com/ we have articles on building the 4B11 and F20B
@@motoiq ohhhh thank you very much.
I really wish you Moto-IQ would do a series on the 2ZZ-GE, I'm planning on building a streatable N/A Celica GT-S and the info would be invaluable! Really wanna know what power numbers could be had with WPC treating a 2ZZ-GE. Thanks for the excellent content Mike and the team at Moto-IQ! Been a fan for over 10 years and the content just keeps getting better.
They just don't seem to go that well. No aftermarket support for them as well. We will build one but they are not too popular, the Celica's were not popular cars to be modded and Lotus people rip them out and put K motors in.
@@motoiq True, those are some very good points. I have an RSX-S thats a mild steet build, so I get to have all te K series fun I want. Just have always had a soft spot for the Celicas.
Once you play with K motors you won't go back!
I just had a 2ZZ swapped into a 2002 MR2 Spyder... it blew after 75 miles. There are K swaps available, but they will run around 10k with a junkyard K and RSX-S trans.
@@Chilicharger665 It's too bad the 2zz didn't come with iron cylinder wall from factory, ive heard a lot of 2zz issues come from those metal matrix cylinder walls.
Could we get a understanding of the k24z7? Im not sure as to why there's so much cheaper and such a small aftermarket support
4P actually has done a lot of development on the head and has gotten sort of good power out of it. This head is actually pretty good for a mild turbo application.
I have a K24a2 long block the k24a2 head is ported. Type R oil pump etc. What cams would you recommend?
Probably something like DC Stage 4
Thanks Tuner Dad.
What would you say is the top 5 bolt on ,for the k20 to make a bump in the hp
Cams, proper headers, Intake manifold, intake and good tuning
I'd love to see some comparisons between the k and ka motors. Considering how much power the k24 is capable of, it confounds me that its so difficult to get 200whp na out of the ka24 with their relatively similar overall geometry. Do you guys have any insight there?
Its all in the cylinder head. The K motors ports flow way more than the KA. The K motors finger follower valvetrain can also provide way better valve motion than the KA small diameter shim on bucket.
@@motoiq Thanks for the reply. Thats about what I thought. So a proper valve job, cam, and port and polish would be the best bet then? I'm also interested in the bc fully balanced crank, but am not sure if its worth the investment.
I would not bother trying to chase the K motor for NA power.
Hi bro I very much enjoy your videos... I would love to see some 3sge/gte content, I have a 1987 Toyota Celica GtFour with 3sge beams redtop+T... But what I really wanted to ask about is if you have heard of micro lattices.... If not Braking taps has a good video on them I was thinking that scaled up and with a little(read... Lots😂😂) development I think you could make hyper efficient radiator and intercooler cores... Highly recommend checking it out.... Maybe you can send me a couple of them if you ever develop it 😁😁😁
We just did a few 3SG's but forgot to do a video. I think micro lattice structures have potential for heat exchangers but I don't see how you could get airflow through them. My opinion for automotive use, they are more for insulators and heat isolators.
With this setup can you put a turbo on it to make more power and still be reliable? Or is this just more for a natural aspirated build?
You need different pistons, maybe closed deck and a different cam.
What machine shop do you guys like your guys machine work?
We go to several different ones, Dsport, Montune, Portflow Design, the guy in the shop behind us, Engine Supply. It depends on what we want to get done, different shops do different things better.
Would this build be able to support a turbo? Im doing research for a 93 octain (premium gas in my state) build for my daily driver but id like to turbo it and make decent power since its also going to be a very unique car imo
The head yes, the bottom end build with a lower compression ratio.
And I have another question what’s the right bolt ons on k24 head to get the best hp without building the head?
Headers, intake, intake manifold, cams, tune
if i’m going for a street build with a k20a3 i’m putting in my integra; would you suggest i just get a type-s a2 head or save quite a bit of money just porting, new valve train and cams on the a3 head?
i have a pretty low budget i don’t have the funds for a built head 😂
I would start with a K24A2 and do the basics, can make about 260 whp with FBO if you pick the right parts.
What does an engine like this cost to have you guys build? If I'm looking for a K20/K24 hybrid.
Something like this is 12-16k.
What valve job & throat cut works best for better flow?
We do a CNC cut radius.
Is it possible to build a k20 aiming for 300-350hp as a race car build for circuit racing and get a full season out of it before rebuild or is 300-350hp pushing too much?
Yes you can. unless you are talking endurance racing.
Can you make a video about b18b1 why is it so hated
No Vtec
Wonder what can I do to my daily drive 2015 si with the k24z7
A lot
are you guys using something like Solidworks Simulation to to come up with different ideas, such as the chamfer back cut on the valves? Or have most of these ideas been pretty well documented and circulated in K motor community? I new to this world is why I ask.
They are things that have been done for a generation on all engines.
How about some VW 20 valve content?
That is coming, we are going to do an FBO 6th gen GTI.
Did you use flat face valve for that build? Im only asking because I used supertech flat face valves on my f20c build to get little more compression
Yes in this engine we did.
@motoiq thanks for your response!!
Do you recommend flat face valves over dish for na street build? I know flat valves are little heavier but you can get little more compression so not sure if the weight will be issue and offset the power gain from more compression
It depends but I would rather have a lighter valve and compression in the piston if it was a race engine going for really high rpm where valve control was an issue.
@motoiq I was going to use 12.1 pistons but then my tuner said its harder to tune for power with 12.1 because of our fuel in California is only 91. Although I kinda regret going with stock compression of 11.1 because some cars come fron factory with 12.1 or even 13.1 and so many people are running high compression with no problems. He was saying to make it work you need to bring timing back and that car hurt power I don't know how much is true but on bright side of I wanted to turbo or supercharge it's better I stuck with stock compression. Last question since my engine has been decked 2 times meaning rebuilt twice and im running flat valves how much more compression you think im getting ? Maybe 11.5?
Your tuner is 100% correct. Those cars with high compression stock are all DI, that's how they can get away with it. If you are actually building your engine you will measure your CC's and your gasket volume and calculate your true compression ratio and order your pistons accordingly.
Would love to see a series like this on 3sge beams motor? Looking at options of what to put in my project car 2-2.5l 4 cylinder turbo. I'm swaying towards k series so much. But would love to put toyota engine in my ke
We will eventually.
@MotoIQ very much look forward to this. I'm trying to decide best avenue to go for my old corolla
K series is totally superior to a beams motor though.
@MotoIQ oh I don't doubt that. I'd more like to keep it all toyota. But k is definitely seeming like the best option
Hey what is the purpose of the 2 springs of the valves?
More pressure on the valve seat
what are your thoughts on DC cams compared to Skunk2 cams? Local shop I’m planning to use for my K24 build (if I decide to go through with it) is recommending Skunk2 cams… is there something about the DC that makes the better?
DC and 4P all the way for the top K engine parts development.
@@motoiq is there any particular reason? they all seam to make about the same power...
@@boblast5582 Hit up Rocket Motorsports
When you were speaking about HP numbers, I struggled to understand if you are talking about boosted or NA. I'm assuming boosted ?
NA
@@motoiq I need a K series in my life
That's why we love these engines. I the video I was talking bout more torque and power than a Turbo SR20DET!
Can you do a b series vs k series sfwd difference
Well they are totally different motors so it doesnt make sense to do that.
What pound off spring would u tend to run
The least needed to control the valvetrain.
What is the service life like for a set of titanium retainers in a street car?
About as long as steel.
@@motoiq, thank you.
Yes i have stock k24a2 05 tsx motor in my ek hatch vtc oil pump tensioner all that stock.stuff acura rsx type s i have 52inch itbs big tube plm header this is perfect knowledge thank you
Very nice! get some cams and bigger throttle bodies!
@@motoiq yeah I would have get them ported out then they would be a couple sizes bigger
Porting ITB's won't change the size of the throttles, the most restrictive area.
Hello i was wondering if you could give me some i sight on cams?! Im looking ar the drag cartel 3.2 for my head build i have a k20z3 head aswell as many k24a2 heads but my main question is would i be better of with the 2.2 drag cartel cams instead since im not building the bottom end or would i be ok with the 3.2 cams which would be a better choice any info is appreciated thanks!
It depends on what you are going to use the engine for
All motor weekend fun car trying to get the most out of it as i can
2.2 is probably better for stock port head and bottom end.
Can you forward this video to Ben at Gears and Gasoline, lol. He seems to think a stock head with drop-in cams designed for 8,000rpm will be enough to make power until 10,000rpm! 🙂
I think his goal was to reach 10k rpm not necessarily make the most power.