Why We Hate Vergil
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- Опубліковано 1 лис 2023
- #umvc3 #marvelvscapcom3 #vergil
ft. @Lythero and @Thatsthemixup
The first attempt at a format we hope Marvel players will love : "Why we hate ____" and this time it's Vergil!
Vergil has been a ridiculously powerful character for the later half of the game's prominent lifespan and today we dive into why that was and why we hate him for it.
Edits all done by @heefmvc ! Like, comment, subscribe, hit the bell if you like this format and want to see more of it!
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Black Vergil mod made by @moocartoons !
badgers new vid • LORE ACCURATE VERGIL S...
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I think Vergil is fine. He is lore accurate.
>-=
So true honestly, glad they went the effort to make him accurate to DMC's story.
then why dante is not :((((((((
@@TakehisaYuji
So you're fine with playing the role of a fodder enemy in DMC?
Whether you love him or hate him, you cannot deny that UMvC3 wouldn't be what it is today without Vergil.
this is true
Indeed, Vergil is in the game.
@@TheBaldingPied This is also very true
facts
I'm just glad the top tier is Vergil and not some rando PeepeepoopooMan. I don't think umvc3 would still have popularity today if the #1 was Tron or MODOK (He's still pretty high tier though).
"When you pick Vergil, you think that you're better than everyone else."
Of course. It's called *M* *O* *T* *I* *V* *A* *T* *I* *O* *N*
Spiral swords was supposed to be defensive? Yeah, so was AEGIS REFLECTOR, and we ALL know how that turned out!
LMAO factssssssssss
Remember when Fox Shine was supposed to be a Reflector?
Giving Vergil a sword that deletes projectiles and the ability to turn himself into a CONSTANT ACTIONABLE 360 PROJECTILE IMMUNE HIT -box- SPHERE is all the proof I need Capcom have a loyalty card at their local crackhouse
In fairness, Marvel did too back in MvC 2. The development went back and forth between america and japan, with america having final say on the in-game stats for their characters and they were frankly just off the walls insane.
Virgil, with his mighty weebstick, is the vengeance of japan.
I love how Gary opened with "he's not that bad if he's NOT anchor" and then his first main defense was "He needs teammates!" lamo. God I'm glad character like Vergil exist so even dyspraxic idiots like me can feel badass playing UMVC3.
also autopsy update but it's just Gary with "Skill Issue"
LOL
speaking as someone who doesnt really touch fighting games and constantly gets smoked by friends who do, i never thought of that aspect. maybe fighting games could do well with having alternate "boss mode" versions of every character where theyre just overpowered as sin with no expectation of balance (that way no one complains when people inevitably do boss mode tournaments), that way you can introduce casuals to the game without needing to hold back as much
"it uses. one bar" really got my ass
hahahah
I think its best put with "everyone is playing UMVC3, Vergil's playing DMC"
that's a great way to put it
11:22 Damn right, I press two buttons, get a combo, kill, and say, "Damn, I'm cooking."
I throw the macaroni in the microwave and go, "Damn, I'm cooking." That is what Vergil is, the microwave macaroni of fighting game characters, so easy to do and I can't get enough of it.
hahahah
Love this style of video! Having a panel of the shenanigoons debating character strength or defending broken mechanics is such a great format, especially if one is a mediator while the other 2 fight it out Ace Attorney style. Hope to see more of these, its such a fun time
ty so much glad you enjoyed it!
Gary was so real for this one, Vergil probably is too busted but he's so goddamn fun that i don't care
he is fun =/ I just wish he didn't body most characters in the game for free LOL
@@IHeartJustice this is true, no matter how fun he is to play i would never try to argue that he isn't crazy overtuned and i would probably hate him a lot more if I had to constantly deal with being on the wrong end of his bullshit in tourney lmao
I edited this video, hope you all like it! I hid a tiny dancing Vergil somewhere in the video, if you find it let me know in the comments!
I found him shaking his hit globes.
Right when i saw DMC1 Dante i was like "Heff edited this"
Awesome work haha
Right when Lee/Twitch streamer Lythero is pulling out his controller to play! On the right!
Let's go Heef
Now we need a "Why we hate Zero/Morrigan" vid to wrap all of top 3 chars
you're onto something!
NOT ZERO PLEASE!
Top three zero morrigan Phoniex
I will be honest, I have never played Marvel, I just read and watch about it, from that I am probably wrong, but I imagine Zero is the least bad offender of the 3 due to being more complicated. I imagine still probably overtuned, but the high reward is partially justified by the difficult execution.
@speedypichu6833 but it does get ruined by the existential dread of knowing that no matter what, once he lands a hit you're getting looped for about 6 weeks for 1 bar. That dread is only amplified by him making the top 5 list for the bullet hell experience in this game
From what Gary was saying, I feel like spiral swords was almost like a shine mistake, a defensive tool that had heavily unforeseen offensive capabilities
wouldn't doubt it honestly
Imagine Melee Fox vs UMVC3 Vergil. Shining every individual spiral sword.
@@KarazolaX finally, a worthy opponent
Thing about defensive tools is that they must be fast to work. Problem is that this also good for offense.
Reason number 6) hits too hard. I used to have self esteem issues, then I picked up Vergil and now my Therapist has wondered why I haven't scheduled an appointment in nine months.
ya know, I 'm glad you found happiness
I think virgils problem boils down to how many good options he has. If even one of his options were removed, he'd be significantly nerfed, like say he lost his sword boomerang entirely, he'd still be amazing, but he'd also be more predictable. By having so many safe options, he's already mixed you, even before he's done anything. It's like that one test scientists did on reaction time, where they put 3 differently colored buttons infront of a subject, and a a screen. As the color of the button came on screen, the subject had to hit the correct button. Their reaction time were nearly doubled from most tests online for reaction time. And that's just 3 buttons, and basic colors, in fighting games, there's usually 5 universal options and 3 more charater specific options, and it's not just solid colors, you have animations and sounds and even the background itself can make it harder.
honestly he should just have one hand that'd be fine
@@IHeartJustice or, hear me out. If he has this many good options, why not punish him harder for wiffing? Give him more end lag on some moves and less health, and he'd drop significantly in the tier list. Or if we want to keep him frame data wise the same, health and damage could be nerfed. The two biggest problems with him are his damage and lack of dying upon being called out by zoners in particular, as he can delete projectiles. He should be punished for not doing so properly. Oh, completely forgot, nerf meter. Be it how fast he gains it or his moves costs, but given how his swords can be anything from combo extender, projectile deleter and a projectile all almost passively, make it impossible for him to spam that.
Or, and again, hear me out, make them removable by the opponent. If he gets hit, the swords should be deleted. Then it doesn't matter that they cost 1 bar and are this versatile, as if he gets nicked, they're gone, that's wasted meter. Also, perhaps make it so that they have HP on top of the timer, meaning if you hit them enough times, they stop, or outright do less damage. Virgil would now have to keep a mental note on their HP, and if he can tank the super or if he will get hit through them for a reduced damage.
End of story, his options for negating an entire play style (zoners, I may hate you, but even I admit this was too far) should have been at the cost of being higher execution, as right now, he's too easy to play.
@@IHeartJustice I agree nerf Phoenix Wright
It's like UI Goku when he came out in DBFZ, he wasn't broken because his defensive options were broken per se; he was broken because he had so many options, (also the fact he was a defensive character in an offensive game) and that literally made him a jack of all trades
Saw badgers vid and you have no idea how nervous I was seeing heavenly threaten to sweep the tourney with Vergil
It was a real threat!
Too bad, the gatorade hadouken spam really worked on Heavenly~
Hot take: Vergil would be a better character if you could pick only him for your team because then he can level 3 X at round start.
this guy spittin
wasn't that a thing in one of the CvS games?
minus the X Factor, of course
@@Iffem There's the giant characters in Tatsunoko vs Capcom
@@IffemSkullgirls makes your character stronger depending on how many you choose. Though in that game, three characters is almost always better because you have so many more options with the custom assist system.
I love this format, Bringing a problem character to court with guests to act as plaintiff and defense and discuss the character in question. I really hope we get more of these from You cuz this is some great shit and it's very fun to listen to
that's appreciated thank you!
Not only does vergil's entire kit work properly in a game where most of the roster has at least something that just doesnt work properly, if a character has something that vergil has, vergil just has a better version of it.
correct!
I mean other characters having dysfunctional tools sounds like the bigger issue to be honest lol. I'd much rather make all my characters work than make all of them jank and awkward.
@@Capta1nTDI do not want to play a game where everyone is virgil. You can tone him down a little bit.
@@uberculex Who said anything about that? Asking for characters with functional tools is different than having every character play the same.
As a Potemkin main, I am merely sad we will never have a crossover so I can hug him to death.
unfortunate because I would love that
ArcSys vs Capcom would go hard ngl
@@Robomori I would kill to see that be a thing
As someone who's knowledge of fighting games is basically the tip of the iceberg, the explanations of the technical side to MvC was really easy to follow and understand.
As a fan of IHJ and the bois, this was absolutely stellar. Great stuff. Cant wait to see more
TY SO MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This format is amazing. I would love to see more cases of top tiers brought before the court of justice with defense and prosecution. Maybe "expert witnesses" could appear on occasion?
wouldn't be a bad idea!
I think the best comment I ever got from someone playing Marvel 3 was when I was playing against a Magneto player and I made a small jab at how much I hated fighting Magneto and without skipping a beat he said "you play Vergil".
LOL
i would simply mash lariat tbh
godammit
The pipe-man is here
Funny Haggar moment
Vergil might be OP and easy to use, but god damn he is so cool. Like on a casual level he is a masterpiece, at a tournament level it does suck seeing him and zero all day everyday.
The tittle change from “why I hate Vergil” to “why we hate Vergil” is crazy
the truth hurts when you play marvel fam
As a Sentinel main I’m a bit upset you didn’t mention his X-Factor 3 damage as a comparison. Then again maybe I don’t know any better lmao
valid!
it's funny how we just had a balance talk with Max about characters who were (or are) f*ck busted; getting toned down. Like; Vergil's bro in MvCi's launch was practically lore-accurate, but even after the essay that was his nerf patch notes, that mf is still great lol
These damn sons of Sparta.
they're just so PRIVILEGED
They don't truly hate him, they secretly worship him. He isn't too powerful, he is truly just lore accurate.
Vergil may be a nightmare to fight but at least it's lore accurate?
technically yes, but if all fighting games were lore accurate kirby would never lose in smash lol
@@IHeartJusticeyou got a point there
@@IHeartJusticeto be fair Smash is about yeeting opponents away and lore accurate Kirby is stupidly light so a character could yeet him once--
@@IHeartJustice >IHeartJustice saying that if fighting games were lore accurate Kirby would never lose
*Bayonetta sipping tea in the background*
"Ya'll hear sumething?"
@@AlexParkerFIght Kirby solos Bayonetta and DMC if yall want lore accurate games sorry not sorry
I really loved this video, love your guys chemistry
kind words thank you!
I think the devs should use vergil as a bar to elevate other characters towards. We know many characters can use a lot of improvements.
I agree!
vergil is the equivalent of a 50 cal and everyone is at 9mm i think this bar is as high as an olympic world record
Hsien-ko could use being a character in a fighting game, which is sad, because she's pretty good in Darkstalkers.
@@wagermp3 naw, cause a 9mm can win up close as a 50 cal is VERY unwhieldly up close. It's more like vergil has a tank while everyone else has a MG mounted technical.
Jesus christ this video is amazing lmao. The info and the banter is just perfect!
that's awesome to read thank you so much!
Sounds like someone isn't motivated.
I only play Vergil because I play Dante and it’s nice to see them work together. Then doom is there too.
Doom told them his story about breaking his mom out of hell and they started inviting him out to drink beer
Doom is Sparda's secret third son.
I would love to see more videos like this with the other top tiers of UMVC3
feedback I can get behind!
What a motivating video
Lolol
Dude still has to pay child support
that's what I'm saying
I think something that Vergil shares with Android 21 ( at least pre-patch 21), is that they're characters that have tool sets that can match what most full teams are rocking
They're legitimately "game breaking" in that sense, and I do think that in itself is worth criticizing. Even if they're stellar but beatable on their own, when paired in a team game like they are, they become the period dot on the match, and that can be lame
But they're cool and fun to watch, so at least theres that. It could be like the Happy Chaos situation with GG, where I feel like I might not even bother looking at the game when he pops up
"Stellar but beatable on their own"
Listen. Imma keep it 100 with u man.
21 aint a Virgil. You can dunk her. You can mix her. You get her in your combo and she dies same as everyone else. She aint built dif.
Virgil, literally, built *D I F*
The only drawback of Virgil on point is that you don't have him on anchor.
IHeartJustice: "We hate Vergil cuz of this list of reasonable reasons"
Me who was planning on making an Yamato out of Paper: "Aww Man :["
hahahah
@@IHeartJustice now I have to make a Hitsphere Accurate Yamato instead (I just stick a Beach Ball and a Basketball together to a sword with no blade)
I clicked on this not knowing it was MVC3 Virgil we were talking about. In DMC he's dope as hell, in MVC3 he's dope as hell but at the same time... god damn is he broken
CHEAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
Goddamnit Javi that intro you gave to Gary was legitimately funny as *fuck*. I was cracking up for *several minutes*.
hahahah glad to hear it!!
I just think he's fun. He also helped me to learn Marvel cuz very new to the game. But DMC2 was literally my first game 2 decades ago. I run both Dante and Vergil cuz I was literally born into the DMC universe.
most people do and that's ok lol
11:59 - 12:09
And they hated him because he spoke the truth
lmao
this was hilarious, would love more marvel vids in this format
hooray!
At first i was like: "what do you mean? Virgil is sick! Have you not heard his theme song? Oh wait its MVC, i get it now ..."
hahahaha
I mean... his theme in this game sounds fantastic just like a boss battle theme~
Us Vergil users just don't see you as sentient beings worth taking seriously.
GIVE US MORE POWER
We? Who's we? There is no "we"
come play UMV3 for a bit =)
@@IHeartJustice I know I play it a lot, I just love vergil :3
The Shenanagoons talking about the cement eating half devil son of mundus? Yeah, that sounds like a good hour of my time rewatching this
hahah ty!
Why do we hate Vergil? well he ATE MY FUCKING SIDEWALK- *WHY IS HE GLOWING RED AND BLUE NOW?!*
edit : Also, just the fact he gets to STACK Devil and X-Factor, WITH SIX BLADES AND HEALING BEHIND IT... fuckin' hell
NUTS right?
Regard him as a playable boss since Vergil can handle 3 opponents all at once with the right skill and resources~
Also, he's lore accurate as a playable boss that UMvC3 is just Vergil's version of MvC3:Special Edition~
His level 3 in his devil trigger mode allows you to combo AFTER it and his devil trigger make some of his moves bigger AND he has a infinite as long he doesn't run out of meter.
he needs it (said no one)
So you can use DT like a bootleg roman cancel?
You simply aren’t motivated enough to defeat Virgil
=(
I genuinely hope y'all do more videos in this format, this was glorious.
Honestly, as not only a fighting game beginner, but a UMvC3 baby, this was not just a very funny video, but almost a straight up tutorial about stuff I had no idea existed in the game.
amazing to read!
i dont know this game for shit but vergil just sounds like a win condition
correct!
What I've gathered from the comments is that if you make a character appealing enough, people won't hate on them as much as other top tiers.
I like the lore accurate jokes too, those are funny. Lore accurate MvC would be a mess with people like Dormamu and Phoenix around.
IHeartInjustice be like "I *hate* pupusas"
Fantastic video, major props to Heefnoff!
PUPUSAS ARE AMAZING
I remember seeing you at Dreamhack and being ne and my friend were absolutely confused to why you picked Vergil.
It was still super hype seeing you play in person and hearing the crowd get hype once you landed PW lvl 3 never made me smile more lol. Super happy to see you on stage and in the venues and even happier I got a picture with you lol
such kind words thank you!! Yea since Evo was hosting UMVC3 for possibly the last time, I wanted to make sure I had a character to help with counter picks on some of the most volatile matchups for Phoenix Wright, that's the only reason unfortunately
the one time i encountered a vergil (to nobodys surprise it was the ZMC team), i legit kicked his ass and to this day i still think i got lucky
vergil takes skill, yes, but the problem comes in when everyone and their _mother_ agrees that he's the undisputed best. getting mixed sucks ass and generally its a skill issue but when he can mix you from literal nowhere it doesn't feel fun lmao
i gotta see how many wins he has (IN TOURNAMENT) but like holy SHIT-
on a funny note: as an ammy main, play amaterasu, she's totally not gluesniffer material, nope :]! also i love the way the vid was made, its super funny n cool while being insightful
If it was DMC 5 Vergil...it would have been a different sto-oh wait...he is more bust-I mean lore accurate
To refer to the Badger video. Giving Lythero Spiderman, Chun Li, and Vergil. "You gave him dirt, water, and a .44 Magnum"
Lmaooo
My contribution to the court.
I've been playing fighting games fairly seriously since DBFZ, and have loved learning all kinds of new games (including recently, UMvC3. Mainly playing Nova/Dante/Captain America, but also really like Phoenix Wright/Nova/Captain America and Trish/Dante/Nemesis). A friend of mine, who does not play fighting games, has been playing Virgil, and after learning how to confirm level 3, he is a MENACE against us. If he wants a character dead, for any reason, they're dead.
I would also like to submit a small piece of evidence regarding X-Factor damage: Phoenix Wright in turnabout. Yes, you have to work for it, and pretty hard too. But Turnabout Phoenix Wright just be killing left and right with no discrimination at any level of X-Factor. Not to mention 0 mix needed for PW, since he has his unblockable that leads to full combo.
He's just motivated
correct
I think my only exhibit for the prosecution's consideration is that Vergil is extremely reliant on meter or X. Deprived of those resources his damage is flat-out just bad and his mix is not nearly as good. He can't even 2 touch medium health characters without meter, which even mid or low tier characters can TOD.
Also: he kinda cool tho. (Great video, love your stuff)
your contribution will be added to the court record!
Having lower damage doesn't matter when your kit blows every other character out of the water. Even if he has to get 2-3 combos, how are you stopping him from getting those combos?
Akuma in x factor is also a savage
oh absolutely! the Jwong special
Here I thought its because he doesn't pay taxes
Everyone in the character select doesn't pay taxes~
He really hit him with the updated autopsy report lol
Kinda surprised Javi didn't bring up the fact that the stupid 1 bar sword belt folds another 3 bar install (Strider Ouroboros) and also cooks Phoenix with relative ease.
Reason number 69: He's very motivated
talk about busted af, vergil is the epitome of it
it hurts
The glue eater Vergil will not take this lightly.
he do love glue
When Justice asked who else can do as much damage with X-Factor as Vergil, Phoenix would have left my mouth almost as fast as the time it takes her to kill me.
lmao
Vergil’s damage is *YES*
NO
Rare Lythero L, Vergil is the best, he's lore accurate, and he's not "THAT" strong, if you can't beat him that's a skill issue
wise words, how many tournaments have you entered in LOL
Love the content man, been watching you guys for a while and i cant help but just smile whenever a new vid pops up. And yes, Vergil is very lore accurate.
too much so!
Bro... Virgil is the Alpha and the Omega. You know with that title is god damn Ultima Weapon of everything. Devil May Cry is crazy
banger video as always. would love to see this style of video with other characters
boy do i have a reason for you to stick around lol -
@@IHeartJustice eyy......let's go
Loving the format
Reminds me i gotta get around to finally getting back to ace Attorney. I got it in the NDS and did the first chapter. I laughed out loud more than i thought i would.
that game is the best!
I need more power just to hit the like button. Already did, but I need more.
Great video and love the guests as always.
super kind words fam ty so much!
Awesome vid Javi. I won't mind seeing more videos of busted characters like this in the future.
that's great feedback!
Ace Attorney Investigations OST goes hard in these videos. Love your interactions, keep up the great videos!
YUP! ty so much fam!
I think what Vergil has that others don't is basically everything, he can be great in any position, he has too many tools all by himself and he's so overpowered that even a lvl 5 Dark Phoenix with an X-Factor can be his victim. Too many good options, too many good mixups, too many safe buttons. Level 3 install, and a lvl 3 on DT which is basically a level 4.
They bring up a fair point at the end... You've been playing Vergil, shouldn't you recuse yourself from this case?
I can hate myself
Holy shit this format is both highly informative but also absolutely hilarious. Please please PLEASE do more of these!!!
It'd be awesome if there were like a final verdict (TM) and conversations about adjustments too!
OOOOOF wait a minute that's pretty cool
I like this video! I hope theres more in this format 🤘🏾
kind words ty!~
Listen Vergil may have made me go insane that one online battle but I have one defense
HE'S SO COOL!!
Can we get another video for Morrigan & Zero?
this man owes me a drink i spilt half of it laughing at him turning evil at the end
I love how at 7:18 Gary says that the setup cost 2 bars when it's actually 3 bars lmao.
I just like the DMC characters they're cool as fuck
they really are though
The fact that I
you are correct
“Summon swords was supposed to be used defensively”
Immediately combos with it in the trailer he mentioned.
Also for anyone arguing lore accurate: vanilla Dark Phoenix.
correct
This video being recommended after I just finished rewatching that "Vergil is too cool" video.
that's LIT
seeing what Virgil can do is just another reason why I don't want to play MvC3 lol I ain't got enough hair to deal with that mix and pressure. I'm good, I'll stay watching on the sidelines lmao
as someone who is very new at umvc3, it seems like a lot of valid points were made. vergil definitely seems like he could use some tweaking, but he does also look really cool
idk tho i just play characters i like, currently phoenix wright, dante, and stryder
you can play whatever you like! this video is just parody tbh
@@IHeartJustice fair enough, i definitely think that playing who you like is a good way to go about things, at least if you're not trying to optimize/win tournaments.
i did enjoy the video a lot btw, it was well done 😄
Awesome video javi
Always enjoy well thought out videos like this
really kind words thank you!
So you're just giving a list on why i "SHOULD" play Vergil
=////////////////