Blood of the Wolf: The Lyanna Stark Story - A Song of Ice and Fire - A Game of Thrones
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Lyanna Stark is a character shrouded in mystery - but not that much mystery, actually! We have a lot to go on, and several parallel characters (such as Arya, Sansa, Margarey, and Robb) that also inform us about what she was like. We’re going to center this discussion around Lyanna, the person, and not RLJ, though that will of course be discussed at length. Lyanna is a great character and not just an adjunct to Jon’s plot or to Rhaegar, and we’re gonna celebrate it here!
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title image uses art by Claudia Caranfa and Nick Kalinin
On the topic of growing up fast at a very young age and how taking care of the animals plays a part. In real life, I'd go further to say that taking care of someone or an animal definitely facilitates maturity because it forces a person to think and act beyond the scope of their own satisfaction. That external dependence can really motivate a kid to act in ways they likely wouldn't otherwise, because it forces that understanding of wants vs needs to really kick into gear.
thanks for the well expressed elucidation here!
Lyanna is such an interesting and mysterious character. I really hope we learn more about her in Winds of Winter
Ned had a huge falling out with Robert after the rebellion. He had great disdain for the murder of the Targaryen children, the lack of punishment for Jaime's kingslaying, and the way the Lannisters immediately slithered into Roberts ass.
Add to that the fact the rebellion was predicated on a lie he swore to keep secret, and you have a whole lot of reasons why Ned would want nothing to do with the South.
I know it was war but Ned called it Murder ,why didn't Robert an Jaime lose their heads for killing the prince of dragonstone an heir to the throne an the king but that was a sticky situation
@@cherylbaxter8986 because anyone who was in power after the rebellion didn't want them to suffer consequences.
@@cherylbaxter8986given who the new king now was, that should be painfully obvious.
49:52 that passage of Ned talking about Lyanna and Brandon really pulls at your heartstrings. Losing your siblings at a young age and having to accept that life will keep going on regardless is rough
This analysis is why I love Lyanna so much as a character and why I want to see Robert’s Rebellion on screen. I know George doesn’t like the idea of doing a show in that era but it’d be so cool to get to see it.
I wonder if Robert deep inside knew Lyanna wasn’t actually abducted by Rhaegar and actually went willingly on her own volition because she actually doesn’t like him.
I also wonder if Robert and Rhaegar had a conversation while they battled at the Ruby ford.
Because I’m sure Robert might’ve said some angry words when they finally faced off.
I don’t know if Robert had a deep inside
@@Okcucumber lmao 👀
Yeah nah, it would require Robert to acknowledge Lyanna as a sentient human with will and want of her own
I guarantee Robert has drunkenly wept and ranted about how that's exactly what happened to five different people over the years, but there's no way he ever really *believed* it. He *needed* to believe the narrative his side created in the war just to keep living - he remained in love with the Idea of Lyanna until the day he died to a tragic and self-destructive degree, even if he never knew the actual woman.
Please include a comment as well as a like to support David LML! His content is the best ASOIAF content on the internet
True story, hands down best ASoIaF channel and fantastic content creator.
Indeed it is!
It’s been more than 10 years since I read the last released book; I mean I am literally sitting and just waiting for the next book times longer than I was the fan of the whole thing. If not for such UA-camrs as lml or Preston jacobs, I would have lost interest to this fandom half a decade ago, as soon as the show tanked
I agree best ASOIAF content, always put a Like an a comment
Agreed, in deep Geek is just alright, and joe magician is a🤡..lightbringer digs way deeper..
Great Stream! One thing that I have been considering is that Elia was all-in on the Lyanna thing. We know from Oberyn and his relationship with Ellaria Sand that Dorne is super open to multiple partners and so are the Targs historically, AND Elia was at the Tourney at Harrenhal- so it wouldn't surprise me if the courting began at the Tourney that Elia was also courting Lyanna. At that point in time they wouldnt know that Elia couldnt have more kids, so I would think that wouldn't be a factor. So it would be more likely to me given the fact that GRRM put that dynamic with Oberyn and Ellaria inviting others into their bed, that this was GRRM foreshadowing the Dynamic with Rheager/Elia/Lyanna. Also the timeline/chronology of the Tourney and then the abduction is very hazy- why would Rhaegar be in the Riverlands in such proximity to Lyanna in the first place unless they were already planning on meeting up, like they did their own Targ throuple-marriage-ceremony at the Tourney (in secret) in the 3 days between finding Lyanna as KOLT and naming her Queen of Love and Beauty. This would partially explain why Lyanna wasn't in a hurry to try and diffuse the situation by sending raven etc. because she had a completely different perspective. And perhaps Elia was supposed to meet them at the Tower, but was stopped by the Mad King because he was doing there same intervention tactic like he did by showing up at the Tourney to begin with. Anyways, that's a lot of head-canon. Looking forward to Sunday.
Ellaria is a bastard born paramour not a wife and lyanna is the trueborn daughter of the lord paramount. dornish lord and lady are free to take paramour not a legal partner.only in one condition elia is going to give her consent freely and happily for lyanna and rhaegar relationship, where she's also a prophecy lunatic.rhaegar relationship with lyanna is going to be a political disaster for elia and her children.
Very unlikely given Ellia's situation was different from Oberyns.
One final thought I had about Lyanna and Ned:
Lyanna was a casualty of both the game of thrones and magic. If Rickard hadn’t betrothed her to Robert, she wouldn’t have even been at Harrenhal. She wouldn’t have met Rhaegar and the Rebellion wouldn’t have happened the way it did.
I’m regards to magic (and this is more thematic than concrete), I can imagine that the death of the mother is part of what pays for the life of a magic baby in ASOIAF, since “only death can pay for life.”We see it with Jon, Dany, and even Tyrion (who I do think is the Mad King’s son). All of them have a Targaryen father (either Rhaegar or Aerys) and a mother who dies in childbirth (Lyanna, Rhaella, and Joanna).
That’s why Ned is so insistent on protecting his kids from both southern politics and magic/prophecy. Lyanna was consumed by both, and ultimately Ned was as well.
You had me up until Tyrion is the mad King's son... Just, no lol
My problem with the whole Lyanna-Rhaegar thing is how Elia Martell gets spoken for. It's assumed she was cool with Lyanna because she's Dornish but that's relying on a stereotype. No person is a monolith and just because some Dornish are okay with paramores, that doesn't mean they all are. Oberyn may be okay with the swinger life but Doran is just as much her brother and he seemingly has been celibate ever since his wife left, so basing Elia's feelings on it after Oberyn's lifestyle doesn't fly either. Truth is we don't know how she felt about Rhaegar taking another lover or wanting another child. We never hear her voice. Just people speaking for her.
I think the stronger evidence is the fact that neither Doran nor Oberyn ever express any sort of grudge against Rhaegar or the Targs. Doran betrothed both his kids to Rhaegar’s siblings. The Dornish marriage customs really just create a possible scenario where Elia could have been alright with it. And then the bit about the maesters said she can't have any more kids, coupled with the vision of Rhaegar talking about there must be one more, right there with Elia and her 2 kids.
also she doesn’t react when Rheagar gives Lyanna the roses. That’s really the only evidence of Elia’s actual feelings.
Rhaegar was dead, and meanwhile the Lannisters had married into the new royal family. Of course Doran would betroth his kids to Rhaegar’s siblings if it meant removing Elia’s murderers from power. He couldn’t defeat the Lannister-Baratheon regime with Dorne alone - his best shot at getting revenge was a Targaryen restoration. That doesn’t imply that he was cool with Rhaegar. By that logic he was cool with Aerys. @@DavidLightbringer
I absolutely adore the level-headedness of this breakdown. The knee jerk reaction of calling The Harpist a pedo drives me nuts. It’s so far from the real dynamic on the ground. Thank You LML! Your mental clarity is a gift to the asoiaf scene.
thanks that's exactly what I'm trying to bring
That chapter with Lady Dustin and Theon was👌
Love to see both the Lyanna/Rhaegar marriage flashback, and a meeting of Jon and ghost Lyanna in the crypt. Wonderful stream!
Another great stream! To me it's very obvious that we're intended to view Rhaegar and Lyanna as tragic lovers, and that their relationship was romantic even if it was doomed. Obviously you can dissect their relationship from a modern lense and critize it from the standpoint of modern sensibilities. But the contextual clues are all there. The Knight of the Laughing Tree is a total subversion of the knight in shining armor who woos the beautiful princess. In this case it's Lyanna, a girl knight in shining armor, who woos the beautiful prince.
My emotional support kitty died in my arms today. Its bedtime for me, my first night without my kitty. So im playing this live to help me sleep.
Also hell yes to deftones.
I lost my feline familiar of 12years a few weeks ago, that first night is so hard, lucky i got a dream visit the next night, i hope your doing ok 😢❤❤❤
That's really awful. Take care of yourself!
so sorry for your loss ♥️
Is it possible Benjen joined the Nights Watch because Lyanna told him something about Aegons prophecy, and about the threat from the north?
I suspect Lord Mormont, Master Amon, and Halfhands also may know some about John's birth considering Amon's relationship with Rhager and how much the Starks support the Watch. If Ned and Benjen plan on using the Watch to keep John safe it would make sense that the leaders of the Watch also be in on it
@@Feisty_Elfgirl_5258 With Aemon, it’s quite possible he figured it out towards his end, when he found out that Dany hatched the dragons and realised there were more targs around, but I don’t think the others knew of his true parentage.
i have no backing for this except it would include Benjin in more on the R+L=J thing. what if when rhaegar was searching for the knight of the laughing tree he found Benjin instead of Lyanna since he most likely got the armor for Lyanna. Then very similar to the Howland Reed story, she then came forward to admit her “guilt” and protect her baby brother. Perhaps making Rhaegar not only impressed by her skill but her Stark bravery (hinting she may be the Wolf Girl he read about) idk again pure speculation but that would give Benjin hard confirmation that they talked and smoothed things over, he may have even pestered her for more information.
People in asoiaf fandom seem to judge characters they dislike by modern standards, but when it comes to characters they like, they argue that we can’t judge them by modern standards. Wtf
Anyway the relationship between Lyanna and Rhaegar was consensual. There are many hints in the books.
“modern standards” have never changed brain development we simply developed the science to see it and study it. an adolescent brain is in no way matching up to a grown adult in their 20s their will always be an inherent power imbalance due to the major differences in brain development. relationships with age gaps like that have always been predatory and never truly “consensual” modern times points that out as we should.
@@nexusniccc I don't think there point was about biological brain development.
Ooooh, you talked about Jon seeing Lyanna while he's dead... Do you think we gonna see a Jon's POV chapter while he is in Ghost? We never had a Lady Stoneheart POV...
Paddy was STUNNING. He absolutely deserves awards.
Lyanna’s dress on the calendar is interesting-there’s nothing blood red in the heart tree, but her dress appears to have tree roots in a pool of blood.
That sounds like a clear jint that she was indeed the Knight of the Laughing Tree.
@@ladykoiwolfe and possibly a reference to amanita muscaria mushrooms perhaps 🍄 😊
Dude I am so grateful to you for your videos and all the effort you put in to them. It’s apparent I just watched another channel who I will not name. I posted a positive comment and the next thing I know is I’m being called “not a real fan and a troll” which was crazy and disheartening at the same time. I try to post comments on every video of your I watch and I have never been treated that way. Your channel is the best and the people in your comment section are the best. The winds of winter is coming in 2024. Positive hopefulness. Let’s manifest that shit.
yeah I've been blocking the meanies for years and it's left us with all the nice folks! I am often struck how I never see the sorts of outrageous arguments here that I see on Twitter
@@DavidLightbringer I’m not on twitter and generally the comment sections I enteract with are great. It’s only ser hunts reviews where I’ve had issues
It was me
@@miketrujillo3677 aces freeman must’ve been your code name
It's a bit off-topic, I apologize, but on mentioning Jon's return from the dead, one possibility I have never heard mentioned (maybe some has, but I'm not aware) is that Bloodraven will literally fuse with him, because Bloodraven has been warging Ghost from the beginning. I personally expect, Jon, not to return as a fire white per se (he might, I don't know), but that as he resurrects, Brinden Bloodraven Rivers will die, & his spirit will enter Ghost permanently, & hence become a part of Jon. Yes, this has nothing directly to do with Lyanna Stark, but remember Bloodraven telling Bran he watched him from birth, & his father (Ned) before him? So Bloodraven has been on the lookout, heavily involved with the Starks from afar, & essentially, I suspect, he was looking for the child he would lend his spirit to, i.e. fuse with, when the time comes. May sound a bit twisted, but there you go, has anyone ever discussed this possibility?
I get Beren and Luthien (from The Silmarillion) vibes from the R & L romance. It’s definitely not a direct reference, but it’s still the passionate, fated romantic partnership that’s meant to challenge the Dark Lord, or in this case the Others.
Lyanna, Rhaegar, Daenerys an Jon all have this empathy an justice for the people who need it
If I had to choose which series of events to be adapted, it will always be Robert’s rebellion first and foremost. Even before Dunk and egg’s story and Aegon’s conquering
Looking forward to watching this later! Would also love to do a chapter read along when Cersei burns the tower of the hand at peak chaos.
Yes please me too.
I think seeing the relationship as strictly a problem of age really encapsulates the shallow literary interpretation a lot of fans engage in, part which seems to be a problem with fandom in general (people understand rules like "no age gaps" and not the issues those concepts are trying to get at, which is unbalanced power and the misogyny of societies valuing female youth, which is kinda....baked in the setting, not specific to Lyanna or Rhaegar). I think we should all be able to acknowledge where the story is leading even if you want to do some critical analysis of it. I think you can say a lot about their relationship, but not that Lyanna was unlikely to be into it (and have some idea of the consequences). It wouldn't surprise me if the crowning Lyanna of Queen of Love and Beauty was actually a challenge Lyanna set Rhaegar both to prove the fated/destiny aspect and also that Elia was aware of Rhaegar's plan.
I think another reason for not wanting to support Danny's assassination is because it would set a recent precedent for killing the adult targaryan children. If Danny is killed, then Jon must be treated the same. But if she's not, then a survivor sworn to the wall who would never take the throne or sire heirs would have even less reason to be killed.
As far as I know, we never get any real information on how the Martell's reacted to the tournament. I don't think Oberon ever brings it up or considers it a factor in her death. The Starks aren't on his radar as instigators or in any way responsible. Considering how much these events triggered the war and assassination, I'd expect some mention of Rhaegar, the Kingsgard or the Starks, even if they're all dead now (except Ned). But it's all pretty much aimed only on the Lannisters.
This content has gotten me back into ASOIAF after the disastrous end of the show! Praise Garth!
Thanks LML for sharing this stream🙏🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻I didn’t know a lots of things about Lyanna Stark , only what happened between her and Rhaegar Targaryens so this video was very interesting and very informative to me. Keep up the good work my friend, you’re awesome!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🫶🏻🙋🏼♀️🇨🇦
If Rhaegar found out Lyanna was a knight in disguise, I wonder if he thought of her like a Visenya character. He was obsessed with prophecy and named both his kids after the conquerors. If he’s needing a Visenya, maybe he saw it as a sign or something that he happened to meet this rough-and-tumble warrior-like woman. Maybe there was love there but Rhaegar was so obsessed with this prophecy it seems very plausible to me
You know you’ve been watching too many LML streams when you start dance to the reading rhaegar music
I think Euron is going to attempt to forcibly skin change into a dragon or kraken, fail horrifically, and die as a result. I don't think skin changing into a dragon is possible because "a dragon is not a slave." Jon using his warg powers to bond with Rhaegal would be powerful, but still limited
Possible symbolism alert!
"skin boat" could imply that Howland skin changed on the isle of faces. It's highly suspicious that his "skin boat" was where he left it. Perhaps he means his body was where he left it...
oh okay I see that. I'll have think about that. maybe you have to dream to "visit" the isle of faces
@@DavidLightbringer the body is a vessel after all.. ;-)
Could Sansa/Joffrey/Arya at the Trident be a retelling of Lyanna and Rhaegar?…A lovely day, discovery of his nature, a fight, fleeing for days, Arthur sent to recover her, then pleading for her innocent animal…. What about Lyannas Horse? Don’t most great riders have a great horse?…If she’s warging a bit she’d be more likely to be using an animal she’s bonded to…
Jeyne Poole call Arya ''horseface'' and Arya look like Lyanna
Arthur?
u are the best ever David Light Bringer!!!! Love all That you do!!!!!
It funny but before I was going on the books canon and just the Tv Show I thought Night King would turn out to be Rhaeger and he was attacking Winterfell to retrieve her body to resurrect her 😂
I mean kinda if you think about Nissa Nissa
I really dug this video David! Bring back more character studies!
So again, you should definitely read Fevre Dream. One of the protagonist, York, seems like an early version of the Targaryen and reminds me of Rhaegar.
Great insights..the theories around ashara are making me questing my thoughts that she is quaithe..another awesome stream! Let's get this man to 100k subs!
Hell yeah David you’ve been absolutely smashing it and I’m loving it. You’ve only been getting better and better thank you for what you’re doing - I’ve been looking forward to this one can’t wait to get into it! Big love!
Well done for dealing with the Twitter trolls this week and I guess thank you to both for inspiring this fantastic stream, can't wait to get my hands on the 2024 calendar! Praise Garth ✌️
What’s the deal with little finger?? Please do a iceberg! Number 2what’s your thoughts on the kings guard possibly being tormund, mance & the half hand theory’s. Since we got on the subject of mystery parentage of some ppl it made me think. Iceberg on mystery parentage of Jon, little Ned the princess beyond the wall.. The Reeds. And a lot of others. Do you think the imp could have been fathered by a first night type of situation. Tywin oftentimes says he’s not his son. Lots of theories here to be discussed and a great mystery in my opinion.
❤
Benjen offering to find armor and stuff reminds me of how the tree knight’s armor is very eclectic and none of it matches. It makes me think Lyanna got her little brother to find her some armor, which makes sense given how both of them were fully ready to go avenge Howland. And Benjen teasing Lyanna makes me think they were very close which is super cute. Howland and their older brothers weren’t going to get back at the squires and Benjen was prepared to be backup and help. He wouldn’t think twice about helping Lyanna kick some butt
I don’t feel like my teenage years were protected. I worked in food service. That’s just as bad as being subjected to Joffrey! 😂
You did it again! Fantastic stream, wish I could have caught it live. Thanks LML
Ser, you keep being the definition of Sane in these times....thank you for your work
Another Epic stream with one of my fav characters. Appreciate it. Thank you.
This was an EPIC one, Dave. Thank you for you charisma, research and wit as always.
I understand the points up for debate. But it has always been impossible for me to view Rhaegar and Lyannas relationship as truly consensual. I do believe she loved him and he her. I also believe she was wise for her age as many teenage girls are. I also believe that assigning her an adult capacity to fully consent to the relationship due to those things is a bit of a well laid trap by a great writer. Her beloved brother and father died horrific deaths due to the chain reaction sef off by her and Rhaegars choices. A genuine adult would have foreseen that outcome as likely. Brandon was a hot head who was incredibly protective of his sister. That was never gonna go well. Add Roberts rage into the mix and you have a literal inevitable disaster. But teenagers arent real great at connecting the dots and assessing long term outcomes. They catch some stuff, but totally miss the boat in other ways. Cuz theyre essentially big kids with all these sudden freedoms and expectations. Rhaegar - as an adult - knew better. But thats the viciousness of trying to fulfill prophecy vs simply trying to deeply understand it. Rhaegar pushed it too far. And Lyanna paid the price as he did. His love for her did not allow him to see her childlike vulnerabilities. Yes they made the prince that was promised. But it cost her the last years of her childhood and the lives of so many people she loved. She was a protector by nature - this probably devastated her. And in the end, she died - nearly alone if not for Ned - desperately clutching onto a handful of dead and black roses (symbolizing imo the inevitable end of Rhaegars love and promises and the cruelty of her share in fulfilling prophecy). Its a great story. But I cant ever see it as a romantic love story.
Really great comment. Without the right context, Melisandre burning Shireen (I know this may not happen in the books) is unconscionable. Once you understand the context, it's arguably the right decision, but it's still despicable. I feel the same about Rhaegar. He may have done what had to be done, but I cannot look at it as a fully consensual relationship nor as a love story.
Eh, you would be surprised at how many adults don't forsee the consequences of their actions. We even get examples of that on the story.
Thank you so much for making this stream. This is one character that I've wanted more insight to.
Robert doesn’t think it Lyanna without thinking or Rhaegar. Ned doesn’t think of Jon without thinking of Lyanna. One is hate and one is love. But both can effect our rational thought.
thank you for giving Lyanna the agency she deserves. 💙
I like the burned by prophecy thing for Ned. I always thought they may have only told the heir like the Targs in HOTD. Like Rickard told Brandon because he was heir and the both died and Ned never got the download of the family blood dept to the others and PTWP stuff.
I also thought that Lyana and Rhaegar ran off one year after the Tourney. Did I just head cannon that? I thought little finger told Brandon about it when he was kick out of the Tully’s after the duel and ran into him on his way to marry Cat and he turned toward Kings landing after that. Maybe I have too many other theories in my head jumbling it all up. I’m going to go watch In Deep Geek’s video because I’m so confused now.
It may be that Lyana spent some time with Rhaegar after he found out it was her at the tourney and Ned and Benjen knew that. Then met now and then after and send ravens or letters or something. I thought the met at Harrenhall a year later and left from there. Ugh gotta go back and look now.
Great video yet again.
Binging the last 2 months of videos, and loving it 🎉
Best content on the subject. Thank you for the consistency
I do think rhaegar has told elia about alot of things related to the prophecy, also his dreams,
& he also might have told him about going to lyanna
Also I think elia wasn't mad at that bcs rhaegar has treated her well, she had been aware how much he cares & works according to prophecy, knows he isn't bringing excuse to be w' another woman, he's a fucking prince he could visit brothels or sleeping around w' anyone as he pleases without caring abt her, but he hasn't
-But I just can't ship rhaegar & lyanna, (p.s don't care abt age gap) even if elia was completely fine w' it
I can't bring myself to that a man who has wife & kids falling in love w' another woman,, elia & her children w' rhaegar 's brutal end, while quote on quote' love child ' of R & L (jon) lives
It doesn't have to be like that,
I think there was mutual respect & understanding between R & L, & that rhaegar was exactly lyanna's type, that she has been infatuated w' him
Rhaegar likes both of them but doesn't love either
He loves the prophecy
you might be right about that past part especially. good comments
i completely agree! he was melancholic like Aegon III and married for duty rather than Love. for all we know, he was in love with JonCon! though I do doubt it, since that seemed to be a much more unrequited love. either way, the prophecy was the most important thing to him.
LOVED this stream!!! Lyanna is The Shit!!!!
R+L=J was the first major "spoiler" I found online back in the day when season 1 aired and I realized I'd to read the books asap!!!
I always thought that giving the QoLaB "title" was the way Rhaegar found to (literally) giving Lyanna her flowers for being a badass juster!! Like "Yeah, nobody can know you're the KoLT because my dad is crazy but hey, you deserve this praise!!!!"
My other headcanon: Elia was on board and they would eventually become a trouple! This one is kind tin-foiled but it's such a powerful polyamory trope...
lol. Barbrey Dustin is very Cersei-like. The way she deludes herself into believing Brandon's bullshit is just hilarious. She was clearly a regular stopover on his rides. He clearly had others as well.
agree
I'm going to smash through this a little bit later and leave another comment but I'm commenting now for Lord Algo; the most brutal and pathetic of rulers.
Love your work DL; thanks for opening up Martin's work for me and thousands of others!
I would love to see analytics of how many of your subs work through the entirety of these long form videos. I keep falling asleep watching these damn videos haha. But I’m going back and forth so that I’m getting and comprehending it all XD
be careful of those shadowbinder dreams
You said 12 hours at the start and I come to find it’s barely over 3!!! We have been deceived!!!!!!
Jk David love the videos as always, and thank you for your time and insights!
Lady Barbary’s language about her not being allowed to have Brandon because Lord Stark was ambitions and why would he marry his heir to his vassal reminds me so much of Cersei thinking about Rhaegar… she assumed she would marry him until the King told her father “why would I marry my heir to my most loyal servant” - Rhaegar was the one that got away for Cersei and Brandon was the one who got away for Lady Barbary (except, in the latter, it seems that Brandon cared for Lady Barbary as well, and they had a full on relationship; whereas Cersei’s relationship with Rhaegar was all fantasy and occurred in her DreamLand) … both were not wed to who they truly wanted because of politics and ambition.
What do you think about GRRM being so secretive about Ned and Lyannas mom? All I can find is her name Lyarra. Do we think her heritage may play into the bigger story? Thanks for the great content!
another wonderful lifestream. i really appreciate the perspective here. most of the discussion in the fandom around lyanna is really around the plot, specifically the current plot in ASOIAF, how it relates to jon and the prophecy. this is a much needed perspective, about lyanna as a person without her being seen as a love interest for rhaegar and mother to jon. people forget that lyanna seemed to have had zero interest in marrying someone and becoming a lady and having children, unlike sansa. after her death, she is known as the tragic young and beautiful lady who died due to two guys fighting over her, and her entire legacy seemed to have been about who wanted to marry her, which is probably something that she never wanted. she probably never wanted to die on the birthing bed either. considering all that makes it all the more tragic.
The thing about Ned being a magic sceptic is funny though cause Howland is a like fully initiated green man and he traveled all the way to the tower of joy and back with Ned. Like Bran traveling with Jojen. I’m sure ned was completely sick of magic and prophecy by the time he got back. 😊
Slowly but surely catching up after relocating to the west coast. Great stuff per usual ❤
Rewatching this! Love Lyanna and your analysis was great
🎉just catching up🎉 thank you David!! ❤❤❤
Even though Arya can be very tough at times to me she shows she can be very sensitive like her aunt. Sansa recalls Arya bringing Ned flowers and him thanking her for it, sweet stuff. When Sansa blames her for Lady's death at first yeah she is angry but later she tries to cheer Sansa up when she is sad to return to Winterfell and understands when Ned tells her she needs to be close to her sister. When Lady Smallwood (I think ?) tells Arya she is pretty Arya thinks on it again fondly. She likes that a lady called her pretty. Yes she puts people on her kill list and it's kinda messed up but it comes from a place of profound grief to lose people she cares about and for justice. She takes care of that little girl (can't remember her name she ends up disappearing in the woods) like a mother or a big sister would. Sorry it got too long but one of the things I love most about Arya is how deeply she feels about things.
I think we're supposed to see Lyanna echoed in both Stark girls. Lyanna was beautiful, empathetic, sensitive and diplomatic like Sansa (Sansa may not have been diplomatic at the beginning of the story, but her arc is definitely showing us that she's learning to be diplomatic and subtle). She was also wild, wilful, wanted to learn to fight, and has a temper like Arya. I think Ned, like the audience, likens Arya more to Lyanna than Sansa because her looks and wildness are more pronounced. But, overall, I think both girls put together show us the depth and nuance, and multifaceted character that Lyanna really was. Also, the main men in the Stark girls arcs (Sandor for Sansa; Gendry for Arya) have some similarities with Robert Beratheon - surface similarities only though - in size (Sandor and Gendry are "built like a bull"), Sandor drinks a bit too much. But, also, as we get to know Sandor and Gendry, their is more depth and nuance to their characters than meets the eye. Which possibly hints to Lyanna's taste in men. Robert was all drink and brute strength, but as handsome as Rheagar was, there was more to him than just looks, and that probably intrigued Lyanna more. Like with many things that happened in the past, I think we're meant to see a comparison and echo within the present. For instance, I think Robert convinced himself that Rheagar was more like Joffrey (in his treatment of Sansa) in his behavior towards Lyanna. Robert wanted to imagine her more as a victim rather than having left him. Also, sort of like the modern take on Persephone and Hades. Some stories have Persephone tricked into eating the pomegranate seeds, other versions have her choose to eat them. I've always thought that Lyanna was romanced by Rheagar, and he probably made the idea of running away with him as being very appealing, but in the end, the larger consequences of the rebellion come into play.
This was captivating. Thank you!
Best ASOAIF content on UA-cam ❤
And here is another stream with great content. Thank you!
This shows that Lyanna really was the Northern counterpart to Rhaegar. The full package of beauty, strength, and wisdom. Almost perfect, except she made the same fateful mistake that he did.
Considering the echoing that GRRM does in ASOIAF lore and world, I could see the Elia and Lyanna being a power struggle like The Dance of Dragons. Just because he King wouldn’t bring a peace
It's probably been cleared up, but Ashara was dishonored and "turned to Stark," not dishonored by Stark. Barristan also thinks very well of Ned, so that makes it all the less likely that the Starks dishonored Ashara, or at least that he suspected Ned of it
that's why I think maybe it was Aerys
Another great character undersold on the show unfortunately great stream I love these, do you think we’re maybe gonna see Wind’s ? with all of these strikes going on hopefully this will give it a push 🤞
Okay so some art from the 2024 calendar includes artwork of SOMEBODY with a long sword cutting down Others riding Ice Spiders up the wall 👀👀just sayin
You: King Aerys was 38.
Me: WHAT?
This was a great stream as i missed the 1st 45 minutes an my internet going in an out put me behind 17 minutes, but very enjoyable an im looking forward to tomorrow's stream Iceberg Starks theory
Arthur had something to do with the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I made a timeline of all the characters at the harrenhal tourney and he was unaccounted for during the lead up and actual joust. not saying he was the KOTLT.
👀👀👀
@@LitcheTheArsm Rhaegar would have had little time to interact with Lyanna during the tourney. He had tilts to prepare for. Arthur was knocked out of competition early by Rhaegar. If anyone was going to give Lyanna a crash course on jousting, it was Arthur Dayne. He is unaccounted for until we next hear of him "capturing" Lyanna after the tourney. IDK what he had to do with the events, but it's mighty suspicious, that.
@@casey9439Thats so intriguing and well caught and thought out, and we already know ned and Arthur went through something at the tower of joy and the daynes somehow dont hold a grudge for his death..
Obviously I'd prefer George to focus on getting Winds done and published but I would love a Knight of the 7 Kingdoms style collection of short stories about Robert's Rebellion. We could get viewpoints from Rhaegar, Lyanna, Ned, Robert etc. Jon Arryn would make for a cool viewpoint character at that time too.
They were definitely listening to Portishead at the Tower of Joy
"Hey, I've had this dream about ice-demons. Do you have those? Because I have dragons & I think I'm supposed to melt them one day." 😆
This was a fun listen. I just want to share a couple of things with you. Meera Reed is said to have been born in the same year as Jon. I think that is another clue that In Deep Geek was probably right with his theory of Howland and Ashara. Also when talking about Lynn’s and the white dress in Theon’s dream, I just wanted to share that white dresses are not traditionally what was worn at a wedding, until Queen Victoria in the mid-1800s made it the fashion. She was actually questioned for wearing something so plain at the time. Brides traditionally wore the very best dress they had. And royalty would have quite elaborate gowns made for this purpose. The white wedding dress has become ubiquitous in modern times, but it is a relatively new style.
Rewatch binge 🎉
Awesome on the rewatch my guy!
Great content bro. Keep it up
I got called into work and had to miss the stream... but I can't wait to watch later!
On the note of Meera being too young to be Ashara's child. Ashara "died" in 283 AC after the supposed birth of her child (stillborn or not), Meera was born in the same year. Harrenhal was in 280 AC but Ashara couldn't have been pregnant then, at least not with the child she lost. And Howland was with Ned in Dorne at the tower of joy, near where the Daynes live. Sadly In deep Geeks series about Harrenhal and the Tower of Joy isn't available anymore to check on all the points he made.
If they maybe made it look as if Ned took Ashara's child in the form of Jon (which Cersei kinda implies) in a sort of baby swap situation the babies must have been at least somewhere around the same age so Ashara would've needed to give birth at the earliest sometime in 282 AC, which couldn't have been from a pregnancy that startet at Harrenhal.
So I'm still very much in favour of the theory that Ashara is in the neck with Howland and is Meera's and Jojen's mother :)
The comment from Karl Karsnark at 3:16:52 resonate a lot with an important secret from a fundamental part of elden ring's lore (which makes it pretty likely that it was Martin's idea and not Miyazaki). To sum it up there is this character that become elden lord by marrying the queen god Marika to try and restore the golden order (the rules of the world at that time), but his identity is very puzzling to some insightful people as he seems to come from nowhere. It is then revealed by the player that he and Marika were in fact the same entity (it is not clear if it was that way from the start of their existance or if t became that way at some point and if so when as there are clues that point to both direction), but what is interesting and comes back to the comment is that the player has to use an illusion dispelling spell on a statue of him that then become a statue of Marika as the sculptor was in the known. I would not be surprised if something along those line (probably with less magic) happen in the crypts as Karl Karsnark suggest.
Fantastic video! thx for posting it
David being shocked about women loving period dramas feels like the trend of asking men if they've thought about Rome in the past week lol
hah that's funny, altho I never think about Rome. I think about Egypt a lot though
@@DavidLightbringeryour name is david and your thinking about Egypt coincidence I think not
I know I’m late- but I’m new to the “fandom” and the channel…
Quick question: Do we know how long Baby Jon/Aemon lived before his mother died? Like, did she die shortly after giving birth? Or did she hang on for a week or more, loving Baby Jon, waiting for Eddard (or perhaps Rhaegar) to come to the Tower, so that she could pass on, knowing her baby was safe in the arms of someone she could trust? It would be interesting to know if they had a bit of bonding time before she passed.
I'm hoping we get the answer to this question because we do not know right now
Lyanna as the knight of the laughing tree is the most unironically hilarious implication of any kind in asoiaf.
hilarious in what sense?.
Just a tough ass little girl beating up grown men. And she's hiding her identity like Mulan with boomy dude voice.
@@DavidLightbringer just a mean little girl running around beating up grown men. Disguising her self with a boomy voice. Like Mulan. It kinda lends itself to that whole joan of arc theme of like women earning respect through prowess in combat.
@@DavidLightbringer unironically hilarious as in not because she's a woman it's funny because no one notices that she's a woman.
Always great content! Thanks LmL
Dark is one of the best shows I’ve ever watched. I’ve watched it three times
I'm ready for a fourth watch soon its soooo good. next girlfriend I get is absolutely being subjected to it haha
Another great stream, thanks!