Was Fangio A Better F1 Driver Than Hamilton?
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- Опубліковано 19 лис 2020
- Time to annoy some people!
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They're both great drivers no doubt but I'd say K-Mag is marginally better
Lol he is light years away from the field
I agree tbh
No wins > 96 wins🤣🤣🤣
I Agree- K-Mag
K-Mag is the best f1 driver ever
No that is lord mahaveer steve
i feel bad for fangio because very frequently when he reaches down to shift he accidentally grabs his massive trobbing balls
“Suffering from success”
@@ploppyjr2373 Ballsy people problems intensifies*
Those balls must've given him some E X T R A D O W F O R C E
you should say the same about Ascari and Farina, the elephant balls team
Come again?
Lord Mahaveer could drive a Dacia Sandero and still win the championship.
I think James May would be happy with that.
oh no
anyway
He could drive a Mercedes and still finish last 😂😂
WEAK. Carmen Jorda could win in a BMW Isetta
Hahahaha
It's like comparing a drummer to a pianist. Sure, they're both musicians but they're using completely different instruments.
the piano is also a percussion instrument :D
@@patricktho6546 yeah its also a string instrument so whats you point?
@@qvor1996 no, it does not belong to the strings :)
@@patricktho6546 Bruh its got strings, its basically both
@@patricktho6546 then where do piano belongs to? your fingers?
*:Sits in a dark corner, holding a little Mika Häkkinen photo:* 🥺
Oh no no my child.
Mkka: is that for me
well...
A steering wheel
4 wheels touching the ground
and big balls
Fancy seeing you here
Forgot death wish as well
Did you call bank?
(Edit: What are you doing here?)
The balls don't belong to the car tho.
Good ole James Hunt.
I think seb put it best "its difficult to compare, how can you compare Fangio and moss to our generation? maybe we would be useless because we would be shitting ourselves in those cars, maybe they would be useless in our cars because they are too fast. it doesn't matter every era has it's drivers and Lewis is the greatest of our era"
Fangio in his early 20’s could have adapted to a modern F1 car, if he went 80 years forward in time, I’m sure.
If Hamilton in his early 20’s went 60 years back in time, he could adapt to a 1950’s F1 car (provided he could overcome the fear of crashing and dying, which was at least 20 times more likely in 1950 than it is in 2020).
The closeness to death is what separates 1950’s F1 from modern F1, and it’s what sets the drivers of that era apart. Most modern F1 drivers would not want to risk their lives pushing a 180 mph petrol bomb on wheels to the limits of adhesion. Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen probably would, however.
@@timonsolus Well put!!! most f1 drivers today they look at the killer years and drivers and acknowledge them as almost war heroes.
170 mph on bias-ply tires with drum brakes and no seatbelts or crash structure. At least we know without a doubt who had bigger balls.
Its kind of unfair to use that as a factor. Because Fangio had no choice but if he was given an option to use a crssh structure and seatbelt. He would have taken it
@@lmtd_reckless7519 He always had a choice not to race.
@@Ficon you wouldnt quit the job u love because you dont get what u want
@@Ficon So does every other race driver in history. That was just Fangio’s situation in those days. If cars were still built that way today then most of today’s drivers would likely still race.
@@lmtd_reckless7519 They didn't use a seatbelt for a reason. Rather they be thrown out of the car, then burn alive in the exploding gastanks thats burning the entire magnesium chassis. Just diffrent times.
Fangio was asked at an interview on 1989, which F1 driver, from any epoch, was the most similar to him, he replied Jim Clark was maybe even better than him.
But... on that same interview Fangio said he knows how to drive within his limits, and that's the reason he was still alive (in 1989).
Senna Idolised him, he actually visited clarks school at a time too, Clark in my opinion doesn't get talked about enough, like just look at 1965 he won so so many different types of races and championships, sadly he was taken too early god knows what he could have done had he had lived
@@shaneryan9076 He'd have at least matched Fangio had he lived. I'm sure of that.
@@Daz555Daz wouldnt put it passed him
Yeah, Clark was and is the driver that all the other great drivers say was the best and that’s coming from the massive egos at the highest level.
I keep forgetting that Jimmy isn't actually on 1Mil yet. In my mind he is way over that mark already hahaha
smh lord raghunathan is way better then these two
Lord Rags is the untouchable King
Indeed
Lord Mahaveer is the greatest driver the world has ever seen
*Pastor Maldonado
@YaBoiSenna fair point
What made Fangio impressive was that he won each championship with a differant manufacturer each time, not nessecarrily because the cars were harder to drive
Yes but that’s because he always went to the best team, sometimes switching mid season
He won two titles with Maserati.
@@lucaferreri8959 Exactly when Mercedes entered F1 in 54 he switched to them mid season. Not saying Fangio wasn't an amazing driver but he was also very good at ensuring he was drving the right car at the right time.
@@lucaferreri8959 If you take that away from Fangio then you can also take away Hamilton being in the best car all the time
@@likilikiki ok all titles but one was in a differant manufacturer
They’re ok drivers. Samir is better
Samir is the best
But he is breaking the car
Looked at the title, I'm basically here to watch the comments LOSE THEIR MINDS xD
so far, it's not that bad... i guess jimmy has decent fanbase or something :D
@@ossharkuenmeursault5609 Quite surprised so far I must be honest
Well, in the end he claimed that every champion from the past has always won in the best car, which pretty offending to all those people who have actually read F1 history and know that there are numerous cases where the champion wasn't always in the best or at least not in a dominant car. His perspective to the sport is jusr very biased against the old drivers. Those are the main reasons people may find this video upsetting.
@Brylle Cruz Could you elaborate your arguments, please? I have another comment where I list many occasions where the champion wasn't in the best or the dominant car, so what on earth are you talking about lack of self-awareness?
@@patepulkkinenvtec2403 Every rule has exceptions. The best manufacturers want the best drivers and have the clout to make that happen, thus greatly improving the odds of winning with 'best driver/best car' scenario
My hero driver was always Gilles Villeneuve. He was a local bloke who just drove.
Jochen rindt, Gerhard berger, Jim clark?
I agree, on sheer talent I rate Gilles Villeneuve above the likes of Senna, Prost, Schumacher or Fangio. Gilles was to real racing what we call "an alien" in sim racing today. He was doing things with the car and setting the car up in ways the other drivers often did not understand.
@@aydankhaliq2967 I'm Canadian and from Montreal just like him to me he's always been my hero driver.
F1 cars today: goes through long corners like a railway.
F1 cars in the '50's: USAC Sprint Cars on road courses!
The main factor that sways me to more recent drivers is that back in Fangios era the sport was very much a gentlemans sport. There was also far less competition to reach the highest level. Don't get me wrong, Fangio was an excellent driver and the best of his era but he was competing against far less people to reach the top level and succeed compared to today.
big agree, that is part of my point - fangio just had the most balls and best reflexes out of the rich guy gang
Fangio was a bridge between eras, a product of the interwar racing who revived the fame and popularity of racing in the 50's. In late 30's, when Fangio was learning the craft, real professionalism was introduced into the sport through drivers, team organization and technology, on a level that was unmatched until late 60's or even the 70's. And even though the competitive manufacturers were basically only the two German outlets, and about once a year Alfa Romeo or Maserati, the competition among drivers was huge. It was not unusual for half a million fans to attend a race. The drivers were more famous than movie stars, and so there were all the reasons for a high pressure competition. Fangio was on the same level of skill as the late 30's Grand Prix stars like Caracciola, Rosemeyer, Nuvolari or Farina (who was Fangio's only real match in early 50's, after all). After the war, the competition surely decreased at least until late 50's. Not many drivers who started racing right after the war could compete on the same level, maybe Ascari. But these were still rather endurance races, and Fangio was extremely good at taking care of the car, which was the crucial skill. The nature of GP races was changing a lot when Fangio was just about to cease racing, so it is safe to say was the greatest endurance Grand Prix driver, and from then on, different skills (including increasingly more raw speed) were needed.
back in fangio's day he actually raced against other "human" drivers and hamilton has already proven he cant race at the top without driver aids so that make fangio better because it was 100% him while with hamilton its only about 40% him maybe even less
Fair point.
@@bjorn1583 What driver aids would those be?
To me F1 can't have an GOAT, there's too many variables in play in such a tag. I think that the sport instead have greats of their own eras.
11:00 I see the point that you are making there, and I agree with that, but remember that Fangio won 5 championships with 4 different teams. So he hasn't always had the fastest car. I think that all the drivers you named are great and they made f1 what it is today, but Fangio was really from another planet
And he was driving in his 40s way past his prime.
Thanks. Fangio really was just something else. Everybody knew it back then.
The thing about fangio is that guys like Tremayne say that he was a multi-champion because he was in the best team always. I'd like to say to people like that to read about Nurburgring '57, and tell me if that was because he had the best car...
In Moss' words: "The cheapest way to become a succesful F1 team, was to sign Fangio".
But yeah, I also recognize that Hamilton did reach the legend status, now he has 7 world championships. The only thing that I would like, is F1 to acknowledge 'El Maestro' a little more...
Hamilton has had by far the best car every single year he’s won. I love the muppets that say he didn’t in 2017 and 2018 😂😂. Ferrari were about equal (maybe slightly better) for the first bit of season, then after that Mercedes developed and literally dominated Ferrari. Ferrari were NEVER better than Mercedes lol. Hamilton’s only competition was Sebastian Choketel and Valtteri “wingman” Bottas. Where was he before? Losing or slightly beating Rosberg, Button. Hamilton has only succeeded because he’s British and bl***, as we know F1 so desperately needs money so they’re bringing in “diverse” crowds. That’s why they’ve done nothing to change the power structure over the past 7 years, even though they have easily been the worst years in the sport’s history. So yea, Hamilton is about as good as Vettel in terms of legacy AT BEST. Lol
@@mikemoggerson6651 I get what you’re trying to say but he also beat a reigning two time world champion in his rookie season so..... (and before you call me a Hamilton fanboy I’m not I don’t have a favorite driver and if I did it’d probably be Fernando Alonso the guy I was just talking about Lewis beating his rookie year)
@@mikemoggerson6651 His teammate too, not only Hamilton. Btw, Before Hamilton, Mercedes was not the best car, but after Hamilton, it's the best. mkay..
Fangio literally had the best car by far in four of five his championships. Two of the cars he drove, the Alfa Romeo Tipo 159 ‘Alfetta’ and the Mercedes W196 are literally mythical legends of F1s earliest days. The Lancia D50 he raced in 1956 for Ferrari was literally the only car that was able to take the fight to Mercedes in the previous season and when MB bottled it at the end of ‘55, it pretty much stood alone and after being sold to Ferrari, they won 6 of 8 in 1956.
The two races not won by Ferrari’s Lancia were won by Stirling Moss in a Maserati 250F, which (IMO) is another one of those mythical cars of legend and the only reason we can make an argument that it wasn’t the best car in 1957 was that at the time it was three years old (and btw, by results, the 6 cylinder version was far more successful than the V12) and in the latter half of ‘57, the Vanwall team arrived on the scene with a superior car.
There are pretty few times in F1 where a driver won the championship while NOT driving the best car on the grid, which is why I find this whole line of reasoning so silly. A great driver can sometimes achieve good things with shit cars (see: Ronnie Peterson), but a world championship really tends to require a good or great driver in a good or great car.
@@jojozahau This is nothing but a fun fact, because Lewis' wasn't the one feeding info to build that car as a driver. Schumacher was the one, and they literally got a one-year jump start from the others with their strategy. But you're not alone in that train of thought. I see countless people giving Merc's credit to Lewis everytime I come to a video talking about him(not that the team cares, because they're making a mkt move with Lewis. They give their credit to Lewis and he helps them "clean their name" from their naz_ past)
Has anyone came up with the nickname "Richshed Hammond" for all the crashes?
Riccardo shedset,
i guess both, Hamilton and Fangio would shit their pants if they have to drive the other ones car in a real race . Fangio because 2020 F1 cars are so much faster and Hamilton because one mistake and you might be dead
i don't think so, f1 2020 cars are much more controllable than the car that fangio used. both are fucking gods behind the steering wheel, but clearly one is better than the other...
Are you aware lewis has driven Fangio cars. And the Late sir Sterling saying he'd fit right in, skillwise.
@@Bahamuttiamat LOL.
@@Bahamuttiamat Driving isn't the same as racing, but i get what you're trying to say.
Not a massive fan of hamilton personally but nobody can take the 7 championship achievement away from him. Yes you can argue that the car and technology is playing on easy mode but mans still got to have both the skills and the balls to drive them. No normal person could ever jump into one of those cars and land on the podium. Regardless of what you think of the guy, you can’t help but applaud that achievement.
Exactly, we'd all have broken necks after 3 corners at high speed yet so many sitting on the couch know better lol.
Tbh I wonder if even Fangio, keeping the comparison, could handle a lap in a modern car... Hamilton however probably could get up to 95% of whatever speed Fangio could in an old car
@@SWatchik fair point. Modern drivers are insanely fit to put up with all of the stresses of a modern car so an old car with fewer Gs but more force required to drive may be manageable.
okay? I dont quite understand what your argument is about how no normal man can drive these cars? No one is saying that some random Tom John would sit in his Mercedes and win a world championship. people who say hes not the best are trying to get across that if you put another great like Senna, Prost, heck even Fernando(more then 1 year) in a car against him and he would not be where he is today. Maybeee 3 or 4 championships. for sure hes a great and if anyone deny that, they are clueless. but the best of all time I feel as if it's a confident no.. I mean you cant deny that hes been at the front for so long now with no competition that his race craft is starting to falter when hes actually behind and chancing someone that isint Bottas. try to look around the last 2 years at all the mistakes hes made when actually racing and not pace driving at the front, it's quite staggering.. I hope I dont offend any Hamilton fan boys as there a sensitive lot. but at least do some research on his race craft recently, it's been pretty poor for the "Greatest of all time"
@@SWatchik And yet Hamilton etc would have no team radio or telemetry to tell them how to manage the 50s car over 3 hours of driving
Fangio's son said, in the 50s it was "art plus precision" (being precise was the deciding factor) and with modern drivers it's "precision plus art". You have to add something to be champion.
These older guys had longer races ('55 Monaco was 100 laps and 2h58m) and no radio or telemetry to tell them how to manage the car - not to mention memorising circuits like Nordschleife and old Spa.
yup but on the other hand those guys didn't pull 5g through corners hundred times during a race.
not saying they were worse, just that it's like completely different sport now and then
@@jakubly You're right, it was different. They didn't pull 5G, but they had to mentally cope with threat of death, while knowing precisely how hard to push the equipment so that it didn't break - using only their own senses. I'd say the level of concentration was equal. They didn't have power steering or massive run off areas, either... While they had to learn long circuits with rough surfaces.
Not to mention those guys raced in Mille Miglia etc. In fact, Moss said Fangio didn't like sports cars as much because he liked to be able to see his wheels and tyres.
Taking corners flat out is always way easier than timing your braking and when to get the throttle down at the right time. I always say F1 should trim away much of the downforce. Bring the skill and even more precision back into it.
@@AtMyOwnPace10 u don't think they time there braking and throttle in modern f1cars?
@@liveandletdie138 not what I said. Actually read it. Flat out through corners. More and more corners are being taken flat out as time goes. Making it easier to drive a track. That’s why overtaking is way more difficult now. Not saying it should be easy. But come on man.
5:10- that's Malmedy, Jimmy - Masta Kink is on the straight after that...
Indeed. Mess it up in Malmedy, you'll end up in the hedge, get it wrong in the Masta kink and you'll park it in some poor bastard's house.
Mercedes: I don’t like the bumps
....(Sebring has entered the chat)
Drivers: waaaah COTA so bumpy it break my car
Sebring: [eyes emoji]
Great video and great message! It is a joy that these sports inspire not just future generations or drivers but also to create amazing games and content too. Keep up the good work.
Does Lewis have the best car? Absolutely. But he contributes massively to that with all the work he and the team do behind the scenes. To hear some people talk it's as if Lewis just sits around waiting for Mercedes to deliver him a good car to race in, which couldn't be further from the truth. The man works tirelessly to improve the car and is obsessive about getting the most out of what they have.
In summary, the best drivers tend to have the best cars because to a certain extent they make them that way.
That's definitely true of Hamilton, but I actually think Schumacher illustrates it better: he won those five consecutive championships at Ferrari because the Ferrari was the best car, but it was the best car in part because he spent hours on end testing and perfecting it at every available opportunity.
@@janTasita Thats very true, Mike was the most driven and solely focused F1 driver ever documented bar none. Lewis actually doesn't even get close to the massive amount of hard work Schumacher put into his career... yet he has been just as succesful.
More natural talent than Mike?... or Merc should be given more credit? I suspect the latter but its unprovable and so totally pointless even going there.
I prefer to think of them seperately as best of their era's.
@@janTasita I can imagine Hamilton testing and maximizing the output of his Mercedes relentlessly if there wasn't a testing ban. It's been suggested that one of the reasons Schumacher's comeback was a struggle was because he had nowhere near the same freedom to test the machinery and finetune like he was able to do at Ferrari.
Schumacher literally made the Mercedes a title contending car before Hamilton came.
Schumacher made Hamilton.
@@janTasita And Lewis does the same. Difference being now they aren't allowed to spend the time on track testing that Michael was able to do. So for Lewis and Mercedes to stay ahead all this time without that is more impressive.
Hamilton is the greatest of his era, and I have enormous respect for what he's done on and off the track. But when you look at some of the numbers behind what Fangio did, it's just unreal. His win rate is still unbeaten, he only finished below P4 once in his career (which was because of a 14 minute pitstop), and his F1 career didn't even start until he was 39 years old!
Also, he got kidnapped by Castro's people in Cuba but managed to charm his way out of captivity!
There have been many comparisons between Vettel and Hamilton, and Vettel usually takes superior lines. Hamilton massively benefits from the extreme superiority of the Mercedes-AMG car which allows him to take slower lines than Vettel but being as fast or faster.
One of most intricate of those comparisons were made and visualized for the Hockenheim Parabolica. Vettel took a Senna-Schumacher-like line, Hamilton didn't, yet he was competitive ...due to the car. Calling Hamilton the best of his era is nonsense.
@@robertprobst3836 This is a bit of an odd logic. You could just as easy say that mercedes and hamilton has found a superior way to preserve the equipment through a race by taking what others count as sub-optimal lines. Leaving less stress and more longevity. Or that they simply have built the car to drive differently. You do know that the drivers are involved in actually making the car, right? So the cars are built in part how the drivers want them to drive. Which could then mean that mercedes with driver inputs know something the other teams don't.
Seeing as how modern day rules prefers reliability over pure performance when it comes to things like tires it could easily be overall faster to have say 0.1 second slower laps in the start, but keep the same speed for the duration of the tires. Meaning you gain time over all.
There's evidence the cars are built for entirely different purposes when you look at something like the italian GP, where the mercedes struggled to keep up once they were in the middle of the grid, but would leave everyone in the dust if they were ahead. You can't force an identical mindset to two entirely different approaches.
@@robertprobst3836 how on earth do you know what a Schumacher/Senna line is? they had completely different driving styles. load of nonsense.
@@user-iq4jg1mf7j That is not true. Senna was very nervous on the gas in corners and so was Schumacher. Both preferred lines with maximum speed at the apex and even more when tracking out to be faster when coming out of a corner. Hamilton takes lines with more entry speed, no gas play during the apex and lots of breaking. His lines look very different from top natural drivers like Schumacher, Vettel or Senna the GOAT.
@@robertprobst3836 Each driver has a different style, and the very best adapt their styles to the cars that they're driving. And there's a lot more to a driving style than the line you take.
The cars that Senna drove are very different than the ones that Hamilton drives. It would be absurd for Hamilton to drive the same way that Senna does. If Senna were racing in F1 today, his driving style would look different than it did in the 80s.
Vettel did very well with the blown diffuser Red Bulls, but he's struggled since those were effectively outlawed. He couldn't adapt his style to the new turbo hybrid cars. Raikkonen has also never gotten back to his McLaren-era brilliance since he left (despite winning the title in 2007) - he could never adapt his driving style after he lost the Michelins he worked so well with. Heck, even Schumacher couldn't adapt to the "driving on fried eggs" Pirellis in his Mercedes days.
Alonso's legendary for his huge changes in driving style. Watch his onboard from his Renault days vs. later in his career, and it's like it's two different drivers.
Say what you want about Hamilton's style, it's always worked for him. Even when he's got a cr*p car (2009), he still wins. Perhaps it's everybody else who's doing it wrong?
Oh Jimmy why you starting an argument lol
Because it's easier than it should be xD
He's ending it
Hey Jimmy!
I was just driving the old Maserati today.
Your videos are what pushed me to build a budget (yet VR) racing rig.
I am having a blast with it all.
Thx for that push into the hobby!
Well put, Jimmy. No b.s..
And good on you for the charity work. I've been watching you for years now, and makes me happy to see how far you've taken your channel.
Inspiring. Thank you for it. Good luck on the push to 600k.
"If there is a man 100 m of the circuit, the session would be red flagged and everybody will be sent home. And their mums would come an pick them up" Lmao
Edit - Typo
Early F1 drivers have all of my respect. Everyone should watch Grand Prix: The Killer Years if you haven't seen it already.
Agreed, a must watch if you’re into F1.
I really like the message near the end, nice work man :)
Mate, you are hands down my favourite UA-camr. The videos you do in your real cars really highlight who you actually are and I can’t think of a better to guy to lead a fight against mental health! Plus, what you said at the end was the truest and most logical statement there is about Formula 1. Take care matey, you deserve all you have.
Better driver we will never know, but he definitely was way crazier than any driver nowdays
I did an English project on Fangio and pretty much my whole class liked it
Love your outlook!
A fabulous note of the 250F, the straight six engine in the car also powered the Maserati Mistral road car in the 1960s.
Nelson Piquet did an interview at the time when Schumacher was winning everything, he said that the best driver was not simply the fastest, but the driver who develops and manages the car better, because f1 is about who creates the best car and in that the cars used to break a lot. Nigel Mansell was called by him fast but stupid, because he did not understand the subject as deeply as Piquet and consequently broke more.
That's his opinion, obviously, he's a mechanic and likes that kind of thing, what do you think about that?
I was a huge Mansell fan, being from the same city, but agree that drivers with more complete knowledge of the car have an advantage.
Hamilton being able to look after his tyres whilst still being faster than Bottas is an example.
All that being said, Piquet was a nasty piece of sh1t by all accounts.
Piquet is underrated. Great driver, amazing personality. Misunderstood by most.
I wish personalities like him weren't so rare to find
I find it a bit mad when people slam what Hamilton has achieved.
He's managed to get this record while surrounded with drivers that have been competitive enough to win several championships during this time too, which is something that alot of other drivers haven't had. Hamilton has raced against Raikkonen, Vettel, Rosberg, Button and Alonso over several seasons. (There was also an older Schumacher in there)
Alonso, Rosberg and Button were all in the same teams too and he had pretty much dominated them all in the terms of overall performance.
He even made Alonso, a multiple champion look nervous and desperate in his rookie season.
The thing I find impressive about Hamilton is that he probably has a decent amount of talent in each aspect from the best drivers.
Hamilton dominates Bottas surely, but saying the same for Alonso and Rosberg, I don't know. Rosberg still put up a good fight with Ham, and people tend to highlight "Lewis better than Alonso in 2007" thing too much. They scored the same amount of points, and yeah, for a rookie quite an achievement to do against a defending double champ , but saying he dominated Alonso just makes no sense.
@@patepulkkinenvtec2403 Alonso was more that Hamilton made him fall apart and unravel during the season, even resorting to underhand tricks behind the scenes off track, and like the delayed pit exit in qualy.
Alonso told McLaren that it would be a mistake to give Hamilton the seat, mainly to cover his own back as he knew he would perform. For a rookie to completely rock an experienced double champions boat in the same machinery, that's pretty good going.
When I said dominate though, I didn't only mean in individual seasons. They were all there and he has dominated in the terms of performance over them all during those seasons. The best during that time has been Vettel with 4
To win all those championships in a time where the other champions were still on track and racing is hugely impressive.
There's also a lot of people saying it's because he had the best car/team etc. I can't think of many multiple world champions that didn't though. If any
Loved your comments on the debate at the end. Couldn’t agree more.
Would love to see you and the guys race the old motors.Great upload and dare i say "made sense"
Thanks Jimmer
"compared to the Engineering pornography that is a modern F1 car"
*Grady Hillhouse has entered the chat*
No need for comparisons, we all know Jim Clark is the 🐐🐐🐐
Yes
I mean yh statistically he is in many factors but people have their own favourites and beliefs. He could of I'm sure had alot more wins and titles but he died, we'll never know just like we'll never know the greatest F1 or any driver. Their could be a 10 time world champion in 15 years time or 50 pr 100 years time but I doubt f1 will even be thing 100 years from now, we'll never know.
@@steveazyb2595 Clark had 8 grand slams (pole, lead every lap, fastest lap and win) in 72 starts. He was an absolute beast.
@@alanherrera2886 I also wrote this comment elsewhere in the thread when I watched this video:
"Fangio's son said, in the 50s it was "art plus precision" (being precise was the deciding factor) and with modern drivers it's "precision plus art". You have to add something to be champion.
These older guys had longer races ('55 Monaco was 100 laps and 2h58m) and no radio or telemetry to tell them how to manage the car - not to mention memorising circuits like Nordschleife and old Spa."
Thank you Mr. Broadbent for summing up this kind of ridiculous debate in such a well thought out, and levelheaded manner.
We'll look to the future and hail Lewis as a legend, contemporaries are always in contention with history.
Well said
ok but i want to know where's your profile pic coming from
"all of the best drivers were in the best cars when they won their championships"
/points at Shumacher in the Benetton
Alonso with the Renault?
Yep, they probably were those years. 1995 definitely, 1994 they won the first 5 races while Williams got on top of their car, and were close enough when they did. Same with Alonso and Renault, both years they were at least on par and possibly superior to their closest competition ('05 McLaren, '06 Ferrari)
The Benetton was the fastest car in early 1994, although the Williams was probably faster by the end of the year. In 1995 it was the opposite - the Williams started out better, but by the middle of the season the Benetton was clearly better. Both those Benettons were super-tricky to drive, but if you had a genius driver like Schumacher to get the most out of it it was mega fast.
The last driver to win the championship in a car that clearly wasn't the best was Prost in 1986.
Jack Brabham in his own car
@@JBarrett027 again, probably the fastest that year - hell, Denny Hulme won in that car the next year Vs Brabham, (who was in his 40s mind you) Clark, Hill etc
Richie Axelson is clearly the best driver
Yea
Laugh's in Lords Raggzy.
*grinds a gear*
No......... It's....... RICKY BOBBY
I'm hoping that someone got that reference to Talladega nights
A brilliant video mate.
Great video and bang on, you acnnot compare eras in a sport where the cars change significantly almost every season.
Yes dude. F1 fans needed this. So much hate for such an epic achievement.
There is no denying lewis' skill. He just a bit of a belled is all
@3213232 1231223 as you could’ve seen by the @JTforeman, my comment was directed at someone else - who has since removed his toxic and salty comment (making racial comments and calling all f1 fans cucks who enjoy someone making 100000 times more than what we do railing our gf/wives/bf/...) - And not towards the OP. I can remove mine thanks to your comment so it doesn’t sprout unecessary drama. I thank you good person!
"imagine having a crashing at this speed with this sort of track scenery", yeah but imagine having a crash at half the speed with no seatbelts or safety devices. Same outcome. Although the modern f1 cars will kill you instantly due to the g-forces, you'd be knocked out before you get any injury. In the old cars you'd have broken bones while you're engulfed in a fireball, or thrown 20m from the car with half your skeleton broken, half conscious.
actually, i think there is some chance of survival in the modern car, unlike crashing out in the old one at speed
@@ossharkuenmeursault5609 yes of course you will have a high chance to survive in the modern car if you dont hit anything, but if you hit a tree, house, or other blunt object like the side of a hill, you would be dead for sure.
I'd imagine most of today's F1 drivers would have panic attacks driving the old cars on the old tracks.
@@albr4 they are actually designed to give chance of survival in high speed wall crashes
I think it was the story about the young Bruce Mclaren.
He had a hard time controlling the car, spinning out.
Then came Fangio, basicaly drifting with one hand at crazy speeds, flipping the bird at Mclaren for spinning out on the tarmack, while shifting the gears.
Absolute madlad.
Truly finished this video with an excellent monologue Jimmer, top notch.
It's honestly hilarious seeing all the schumie stans absolutely melting about Hamilton breaking two of his records... Like jesus Christ people theyre both gnarly drivers
But but but Schumi never had the best car and definitely didn't cheat 👺👺👺🤬🤬🤬😡😡😡😡😡😡
@@coyy9106 wtf go get some help. There cannot be a GOAT just appreciate all the drivers
@@coyy9106 Or guarantees that his teammates wouldn't finish in front of him.
@@user-iv7bb6yz2q I'm actually picking up sarcasm from OTBC especially the "Definitely didn't cheat" part.
@@user-iv7bb6yz2q Twas sarcasm brother
Being of the Scottish Persuasion, Jim Clarke has always been my favourite "old school" driver of all time, but... I have followed Hammilton since his famous GP2 second place and I he is undeniably the greates driver of the modern age.. Gongrats on 7 Wins, lets go for 8 or 9 before he decides to retire (he doesn't really need the money to be honest lol)
Fangio spent most of his time in the best car or close to the best car, and moved teams whenever he thought he could get into a better car. Senna, won most of his races and all of his championships in the best car (although in '91 not necessarily the fastest). When McLaren lost competitiveness he offered to drive for the team with best car for free.
Jim Clark, great driver, Lotus also happened to be producing the fastest cars at the time.
In fact if there is an argument for a driver being dominant in an era with a relatively level playing field I think it would be Jackie Stewart (69-73) and Niki Lauda (75-77)
I've got no idea who the greatest driver would be if they could all drive each other's cars, but Lewis has won races when he hasn't had the best car, and he joined his current team when they didn't have the best car. In fact he received (unjust even at the time) criticism for taking the money from Mercedes rather than staying with a proper racing team who would provide him with a better chance to win. He is the greatest of his era, and one of the greats of the sport.
My day is always better with a jimmy upload
You can't even compare the two drivers. In Fangio's era, it was just hobby for the wealthy rather than a profession.
its the same thing nowadays tho
Bruh still the same, but Fangio wasn’t even close to wealthy
@@valemarin821 that's exactly what I was referring to. Fangio was a pure talent who was racing against the rich who were participating in a hobby.
keeeen for that online race around here
Make the charity race a multiclass between these two cars. Perfection!
Any driver who won races and championships in the DRS era is less impressive than winners from previous eras. Turkey this year showed that without DRS, a Ferrari could hold the Merc back using race craft. As soon as the DRS was enabled, no skill, just push a button and disappear in to the distance.
Piquet weren't in the best car for two of his championships.
Nor was Lewis in 2008, 2017 or 2018
Piquet is almost comically underrated. Probably because he was (and is) a bit of an arsehole, but still...a cracking driver.
@@demarcogayle1114 Lol, he had the best car in both 2017 and 2018
@@hoya1178 Ferrari marginally edged out Merc in both 2017 and 2018 and could've won at least the drivers championship both years.
@@Juan444tv No, they didn't. Ferrari was good the first half of the season, then Mercs flew past them with their devolopments over the rest of the season.
I'm sure that the comments are going to be really civil here.
They’re still fine. For now
Yea, for now.
Still fine, until someone brings erm, "politics" around. When we talk about drivers as drivers, we manage to keep it respectful.
Just wait until the football/soccer profile pics people from twitter enter the comments.
How dare you trash our Lord Mahaveer
Prost did not have the best car in his 1986 WC win.
It is one to thing to say "every" World champion had the best car but the margin/gap between the best car and the rest of the grid is another factor you can't ignore.
That conclusion was perfect Jimmer. Good philosophy from best shed boi.
My opinion on this debate:
There are few drivers able to dominate even with a dominant car. Alonso, Button, Kimi (before), Seb and Lewis, all very good drivers. It is impossible to find a "best one" but we can say that those are among the greats
But their cars weren’t 1.5 seconds quicker a lap dominant. Not even close. And Lewis only has to beat one driver. That’s Mr. average on his best days Bottas. When Lewis had the same car as Button Button beat him most times and even when Button didn’t he wouldn’t dominate in an equal or slightly better car. Yes Hammy is very talented. But if Mercedes was only better by the margins the top cars were better 2008-2013 then he wouldn’t have 7 titles.
@@AtMyOwnPace10 can’t remember any race this year that Hamilton out qualified anyone by 1.5 seconds
@@AtMyOwnPace10 my only point is that there are few drivers capable of pulling it off, even with the merc
@@AstoriaGaming ummm Bottas. If it wasn’t for Ham Bottas would win those titles.
@@AtMyOwnPace10 Button most certainly did not dominate Lewis during their time as teammates.
In fact Lewis beat him in every category besides points scored, which is impacted by Lewis’s greater DNFs.
Me : sees title
Also me: i guess we’ll never know....
Seriously tho jimmy just made everyone realise that it takes a great car and a great driver for a championship...
How did he make us realise that? After reading about F1 seasons of 1982, 1986, 1994, 1999, 2005 and 2007 for instance, where the champion was NOT in the best car, you all know that the only thing this video proves is that this guy has skipped his F1 history lessons and making his argument out on a random assumption.
@@patepulkkinenvtec2403 maybe but what about the rest of the seasons
Even take 2019 and 2020
Yes i will say best car is wrong word but in the seasons you just told both cars were really competitive and thats why we were able to have a battle
In 2007 if ferrari hadn’t started improving the car i can guarentee that a ferrari wouldn’t have been world champion
Plus seeing how rarely teams allow both drivers to fight for the championship also helped ferrari’s cause
Most top teams focus on 1 driver and make the 2 driver help him win the championship. If the same had happened in 2007, a mclaren would’ve won the championship
Amazing point Jimmy! Best driver gets best car. Said it from the beginning of the video and you just confirmed it!! Awesome videos man. Keep it up!
I like this type of video comparing 2 era of car on the same track
You’re all wrong, the best driver ever is Walter Röhl.
You forgot Stefan Bellof for example. But I think Röhrl and Bellof in the same car around the Ring would have been a nearly same laptime around "sixeleven". ;)
can we not compare them and just appreciate what they have all achieved :)
Great vid, Any chance you could possibly post links to where you get the mods from? I never seem to be able to find any good ones
on 1950 for example when you entered a corner the car drifted so you had to perform a controlled drifting so the car could get as much speed and exit to continue, they risked much more, moreover when the helmet was optative and the driving seat was much less compact to hold the driver's body so your only reliable way to stay still on the car was holding the steering wheel harder, also the teams consisted about a maximun of 3 engineers, there was not test sessions like we have today, a driver had to do at least 5 rounds on the circuit with a dummy car, the qualifycation was done with the driving car, also races were very very long, the engine was on the front of the car and it will overheat the driver so they could be changed on the pits, then the driver would take a shower and I'm not sure if the driver could go back to the car if he wanted, also the was only 8 races so winning was absolutely a must, drivers like Ascari he finished almost every race 1st, 2nd or 3rd, rarely being worst than that! is absolutely amazing! those are the kind of drivers that risk much more than other on racing, moreover when we talk about from 1947 to 1955, this guy died on a test session on a ferrari, at the same age as his father, on the very same day and on similar circumstances, he won 2 F1 championships.....people like this deserve to have their own league! Farina, Fangio, Ascari, and many others, they don't deserve to be compared with the drivers today, every single one of this drivers are on 1st position, in old F1 drivers were slower but with 2/3 posibilities of losing their life, nowaday drivers are much more fast but with almost none possibilities of death.....Fangio won the championships with 4 diferent teams, an unbeatable record Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz and Maserati, he's the oldest driver to win a F1 championship on his first year, the biggest percentage rate ever, it's unbeatable 46%, his attitude is considered to be the best a F1 driver has ever had, he was a full grown gentleman, he also was a fair player, he never pushed anyone off the track and never had a bad attitude towards anyone, back then it was a gentleman's sport this guy was beyond everything!
Well put! He was the greatest driver to ever grace a steering wheel in my opinion.
Schumacher did it in a Benetton, twice. They didn't always have the best cars
The rumour is they had best software though.....
B194 was clearly faster at first races. B195 had no competition (there wasn't a good driver on the other cars).
They did cheat but Williams was quite often faster, but the fact that Scumacher was not allowed to race for some races and still win was pretty crazy, on the other hand, a bit controversial.
That Benetton had launch and traction control, one of the best aerodynamics of the season. 🤷♂️
"Without Mercedes Lewis would be average"
Do people who say this really not expect us to say:
"Without Ferrari Micheal would be average"
People also forget who Hamilton replaced at Mercedes.
Schumacher won 2 championships when he was at Benetton, so your argument is very stupid. And Jimmy said in the video that you shouldn't compare them because of how different it is, you still choose to do it with a trash argument.
@@janis7077 benetton had the best car bruh, as Williams had their driver aids taken away
@@MrXaniss no...they didn’t. Benetton never actually had the best car lmao.
Mercedes would be champion every year with our without Hamilton. Hamilton is a beneficiary, not a champion.
Thank u jimmy 4 the banger vid
Low pay, and very easy dead. That was motorsport in the mid 20th century. And of course, Fangio had this enourmous talent of driving smooth AND fast. Only Jim Clark and Jackie Steward had a similar talent. And he got his 5 titles in an era when one title or one victory was the sign of absolute greatness. Today, motorsport is a business of mass-production and obviously a dominating team is not so easy to defeat anymore like in the 20th century. When you look at the 1950s, every year had another manufacturer at the top. And even after that, a domination of one team and one driver was more short lived than today.
I think that the debate around whether Hamilton is the best F1 driver in history is honestly pretty silly. There are plenty of reasons that you say that he is, but there are also plenty of reasons why Senna or Schumacher could be considered the best. However, I think the thing that you can say without a shadow of doubt is that Lewis is the greatest driver of his generation (late 2000's through current year), just like Schumacher was the greatest of his (late 90s through mid 2000's) and Senna was the greatest of his (late 80s through mid 90s.) They are all legends in their own rights; giants who brought the sport to new heights and redefined the meaning of speed. And we're lucky to have been able to witness the careers of each one of them.
This. I’ve long contended that F1 goes through periods where usually one driver puts his stamp on the series and is easily discerned as the greatest driver of that era. It’s usually pretty realistic to compare a current great driver to his immediate predecessor (Hamilton to Schumacher, Senna to Prost, Lauda to Stewart, etc), but the moment you try to go about two generations back, it becomes very muddled for a variety of reasons - tracks, technology (in literally every aspect - tires, brakes, fuel, safety...) and physical abilities. Comparing, say, Lauda to Senna is IMO already somewhat complex (despite their obvious overlap), but Senna to Stewart or Clark really starts being apples and oranges.
I think we would be better of talking about a driver being the best of era/generation rather that striving to make arguments for a singular GOAT, which IMO is just kinda reductive.
IMO the reason why Hamilton is fails to get called a GOAT is because he's been with a team that has been producing the best car ever since they got the engine right in 2014. He is indeed a remarkably fast driver, but at times does rather stupid mistakes and he drives in a calendar where 20 race years is the norm instead of 6 or 14 races.
@@TripleAlfafa Well, I do think that someone else in these comments made a very good point which was that if you say that Hamilton isn't a GOAT because of Mercedes, then you also can't say that Schumacher is a GOAT because of Ferrari. As Jimmy put it in his video, the fastest drivers tend to end up in the fastest cars.
@@b0om2k That's my opinion. None of the two can't be called goats if you look at the relative competition factor. I would put Senna as my favourite, but again, it's my opinion. I can see people thinking differently. What I don't like is people being like "if you don't agree with Lewis being the GOAT, you must be a hater, a racis_, jealous or some bad ish" and ad hominem all over the place like a *political* debate. This is what's rotting the community nowadays.
@@lukewood2662 Yeah, I completely understand and respect your opinion. I think that's an important distinction to make, that really the whole debate around who the best driver is is exactly that. A debate regarding opinions. Because there's no one driver who, at this point, you could point to and say "This is the greatest driver in F1 history. Fact."
Fangio...Hamiliton..rubbish!!! JIM CLARK!!...even Fangio would agree.
It is that a remix of Sis Puella Magica at 0:21 ... sounds awesome
Brilliant mate !!! Spot on
Fangio won 5 world titles. The first, with Alfa. The second with the Maseratti 250F and Mercedes, another with the Merc, and one with Ferrari. Then, he won his last title going back to driving the Maseratti 250F he used 4 years before. 5 titles, 4 different cars. I'm not saying he was a better driver, they can't be compared. But the size of the achievent (not to mention his gentleman equipment), is much larger. NO radio, NO aids, NO telemetry, way longer races, in way scarier racetracks, in way worse conditions. Again, 5 titles, 4 different cars, the last one using a car he was driving 4 years before...
Fully agreed...
It's also just that as fangio himself said, he is a good driver because he finished the race. Modern drivers can push as hard as possible in qualifying knowing they will walk away. That luxury didn't exist when a crash was a roll of the dice between life or death.
No driver from even 30 years ago was as good as the worst driver in F1 today, that is a hard to swallow fact that a lot of people with severe delusions will have a hard time accepting. The quality of competition has moved on so far and evolved to such an extent that the legends of history would appear as amateurs today. The same is true for every other sport as well. In the past, it wasn't the most talented people that made it to F1, it was those who had an interest and money, and such people were rare. Today, F1 drivers start their journey as soon as they're old enough to sit inside a go-cart, and go through grueling competition on every step of the way....so that out of 10000 kids with above average talent and ability, maybe 1 ends up in F1. When Fangio was around, there weren't 10000 people in the entire world interested in becoming race drivers, let alone actively fighting for years and years in order to MAAAAYBE get a chance to get a seat in F1.
Thank you! I hate when people make these dumb comparisons when the answer is quite clear if you at it objectively
hahahahaha wow you've probably just started watching in the last 7 years haven't you?
I completely agree, their lifestyle has nothing to do with these relics of the past, and yes a modern driver would have beaten any driver of the past
Ayrton Senna is the best, or at least one of the best even compared to today. Today's cars just require different skillsets compared to the old ones.
@@Danlorde So would Lewis Hamilton beat Michael Schumacher or Ayrton Senna?
i really hope to hear Jimmy in the commentator box one day
With his knowledge, it must be a gift
Pls do more race streams loved the one the other night
ALL HAIL LORD MAHAVEER🐐
Fangio has never lost a championship to Rosberg ...
or: Rosberg is the only one to beat Hamilton driving the same car as him.
massively underrated driver.
@@deabreu.tattoo And I suspect the effort of getting that one win out of Hamilton was enough for Rosberg to say "fuck this". ;-) To be honest I also think than win made Hamilton the beast he is today. It clearly hurt him more than any other loss in his career.
@@deabreu.tattoo Button too
Big YES to the idea of an online race around old Spa in 50’s F1 cars. Make it happen Jimmy.
Jimmer just loves putting some cool songs on his vids/ streams
BTW, song is Sis Puella Magica (Synthwave remix) by Astrophysics
I always say this: Don't blame the winning team for domination, blame the competition for not catching up. The same goes for driver, don't blame Lewis for dominating, what do you expect him to do? Slow down?
What i find most funny is that 15 years ago some people were saying "Schumacher is not that good, he only won 7 titles because he always was in the best car".
Now some people are saying "Hamilton is not as good as Schumacher, the only reason he equaled 7 titles is because he is always in the best car."
As Jimmy said, the best drivers always end up at the best teams.
and as jimmy said somewhere else, F1 fanboys are the worst
Obviously the best drivers end up in the best cars, obviously. But with what effort? Example: Hamilton started with one of the best cars on the grid and Senna had to race 4 years with regular cars to get into a Mclaren. So you can't say that Hamilton is better than Senna, because he won races and got his first title before 🤷♂️
When Lewis is 48 years old , put him in Fangio's 1957 Maserati 250f , and see what his lap time is at the old Nuremburg ring . I bet a pay-check that his "attachments"................ are smaller .
Is that a synthwave cover of the PMMM ost
Fucking nice
The reason a champion is the fastest car is often because they had a hand in making it that way
10:29-11:52 Straight facts
Fangio's car: Big V12 N/A, a HUGE steering wheel, 4 tiny tyres, and BIG balls.
Hamilton's car: A V6 Turbo-Hybrid, a steering wheel with so much buttons, 4 Slick tyres, and huge safety.
I love this Jimmy that's brilliant put well said my friend