You hit the nail on the head with Yakuza/LAD being both blessed and cursed becoming more popular now. When a series gets more popularity, you end up losing some of the magic that made it interesting in the first place. Meme culture has portrayed this series as this goofy city adventure with wacky characters, so it feels like that's what the series is leaning more into now. In reality, Yakuza/LAD has always been a more down-to-earth, emotional and hard-boiled drama. The side quests are on the funny side to give a breath of fresh air from the more serious main story. Now it's bought us this fandom civil war between "Serious Yakuza" vs. "Silly Yakuza".
The main story wasn't exactly serious early on. Yakuza 1 had Shimano with all his hammy goodness and Kiryu's questionable ways to spend time with the child he cares for.
I mean tbf even infinite wealth still had the searxh for ichibans mother the former yakuza being used al slave labour a cult trying to kill a child. Sure ichiban is goofy and some things are definitely over the top but look at yamai's story and tell me that wasn't serious.
I will never understand the notion... it's a studio, not a single man work when it comes to games. I am pretty sure Nagoshi was happy to leave it in the hands of the current team.
You wouldn't believe the amount of games that failed because they lacked a good director, or the amount of games that were saved because they had a good one. Nagoshi put his career in danger at the beginning for the franchise, he believed on his game and his ideas, and you can feel a little of his philosophy on each character about being true to oneself even if it means to make the entire world your enemy. The job of a director is to guide the project so It doesnt stray too much from what is suppose to be (see what happened to DR 4) and what ideas you can actually put in the game.
People attributing the success of a property to a single individual is sadly nothing new, but the amount of people using the exit of such a creative force as a justification for their own lack of enjoyment in the series nowadays is something I really didn't expect. The conversation quickly steers from „what Yakuza used to be“ to „what I want Yakuza to be“ while shutting out any meaningful discourse around the concept of an evolving IP in the process. Glad to see you pointing out the absurdity of the back-and-forth in a constructive manner 👍
It would be so much better for someone to just admit they don't enjoy the series anymore rather than pretend like it's slop that no one should enjoy when many people still do. Nothing is wrong with either.
This is nothing like Kojima. Nagoshi would have stayed forever, but he parted ways because SEGA wanted him to have more of a leadership role. He left because he wasn’t interested in that and just wanted to be a creative director. His departure was on good terms.
Yeah. The sonic fandom is now facing this too: people that enjoy the 2000's games are crapping to the new ones because the series is not cathering to that part of the fanbase anymore, but instead of admitting that they are doing extreme mental gymnastics to convince everyone that sonic 2006 is actually one of the greatest games of all time
Nagoshi was promoted within the company long before he left, he was an exceutive not a project manager. I see 0 get thrown around as if it was made by nagoshi and that was a result of the nagoshi design philosphy. For one if that were true, why weren't games before or after that like yakuza 0? And like yokoyama who is treated like the bad guy by these people is literally the lead writer on 0
The RGG games have pretty intriguing highs and lows. One game will have the best story of the year and then the next one somehow doesn't hit as much. It's like how Yakuza 7 hit hard for me but IW didn't hit as hard, even if I did enjoy it.
@@devilleon7 I feel like part of the narrative is that people have convinced themselves 0 was "how the series used to be" when its the 6th mainline yakuza game. The reality is the series is and always has been inconsistent. These are flawed games but they're great
@@devilleon7 Biggest example I can remember - RGG decided to experiment and change the engine completely on Kiryu's supposed last game (RGG6), and that experiment turned out to be the Dragon Engine. I remember people lamenting that as well.
@@sapphire3084 The engine itself wasn't an experiment, Yakuza 6 and it's numerous experimental features, sure. It was always intended to be a next-gen game engine.
People always like fantasize the idea of one man who could do no wrong, one man who leads his team and be the face of a franchise or a genre, and every other people who tries to follow in their steps to be considered inferior, pretenders to the throne. This happens all the damn time, from Nomura (often blamed for anything wrong with FF, even on things he wasn't involved in), to Takashi Yamazaki (often compared unfavorably to Shu Takumi in the AA series). What people often never realize is that creators are still human, they still make mistakes, and that it is ALWAYS a team effort that made a game so great. Too many times an acclaimed figure in the industry both rise and fall because of this mentality, be it Yu Suzuki, Keiji Inafune, Yuji Naka, or hell, YoshiP even counts, because people like to believe they could do no wrong, yet the moment they did it wrong, it blemishes their record and damages their public reputation forever. Sure some of their downfalls are mostly of their own doing, be it mismanagement (Suzuki, Inafune), or just straight-up crime (Naka), but that's the thing, they are still human, and not one man can truly define a series or create it's success. It's always been a team effort. Are we really gonna say YoshiP is washed when FF16 is proven divisive and not a knockout success like FF14 did? Of course not. Same goes for Nagoshi and Yakuza. Yakuza always has been a team effort, not just Nagoshi, but others like Yokoyama, Horii, and many more lend a hand to raise the series together. Having Nagoshi be hailed as the father of the series like gospel feels wrong, hell we don't even know whatever happened to his next game at Nagoshi Studio, 3 years after he left, so when he finally show it, and it turns out its not good compared to Yakuza, are we gonna turn on him and pretend his contributions never exists? This should be something worth thinking of.
the thing is that a director has the final word on every choice, if he don't like something the main writter did, he told him to change it, if he don't like a music track or wanted a different aproach, he told that to the music composer, if he don't like or want a different level design he told the team how they have to even remade the entire level or game (like Shinji mikami when he was at advanced phase of the original RE 4, but decided to transformed in Devil May Cry and restart from scratch the game we all know). If the director changes, the general vission change too, and that's why people is always afraid (take for example Starwars, Gorge Lucas sold to disney the franchise, and now Disney ruined with all the woke sh.t). Ofc there are other cases when the change of director was great, like the development of the original Resident Evil 2, Shinji Mikami made an advanced version of the game, but he wasn't happy with the result, so he as a producer too, hired another director that made the successful game that made more important the saga. Now I´m not sayin in this specific of RGG case that the change of director is a bad thing, because the last Yakuza games were very good, but I really can sense a different direction in many areas, I´m still waiting to play future Yakuza games to see if the new direction is gonna be the same, worst or even better than the original vision of Nagoshi, just hoping for RGG that the new directors don't sellout to woke propaganda like many other games.
@@marcraider You said this twice on two different comments now, my views haven't changed, more often than not in Japan it is the game producer that held a higher authority over the director. Also, Yokoyama and Horii have been with the series since the first game yet somehow Nagoshi gets all the glory and praise? Are we gonna keep do this to any up and comer rising stars in the industry, and then belittle them when they're proven to not be infallible and their next game isn't as good?
If this year's collections of the Apollo Justice Trilogy and the Investigations Collection has taught me anything, it's that the hate for Takashi Yamazaki is completely unreasonable. Heck, I'll get even spicier - Great Ace Attorney are the weakest games in the franchise. And who did those? 🤔 (Not saying they're BAD - just that they're the weakest, least interesting, least fun to revisit games. The writing is very rambly and drawn out and most of the characters are a chore - especially Sholmes and Natsume. They're up there with Moe the clown for most obnoxious characters in the whole franchise.) Shu Takumi is great, but he is not perfect and any other writer/director/etc is not immediately trash. Everybody's out there acting like Yakuza and Ace Attorney suffered the same fate as Metal Gear Solid after Konami got rid of Kojima. Absolutely not, neither franchise has a Metal Gear Survive.
Objectively correct. You can probably find animations in Elden Ring that Fromsoft has been using since Demon's Souls. Fans will pick up on it, but nobody really cares as long as the games are good.
I feel very strongly that if Sega had kept Nagoshi's departure from RGG Studio a secret somehow, "the series fell off specifically after Lost Judgment" would not be any more popular a take than any other personal 'jump the shark' moment. People are just so desperate to find individuals they can credit or blame over trends they don't like, that they'll convince themselves those trends were caused by a specific person, even when the evidence doesn't line up.
@@MadDogSolo Most RGG fans would agree that Kiwami, 6 and Kiwami 2 were not nearly as good as Yakuza 0. Yet there was no headline worthy change in the development team for fans to blame for that. So if that kind of dip can happen at any time, why should anyone assume that this new (supposed) dip is caused by the departure of Nagoshi?
I personally enjoy some edgy, although I enjoy the goofy being only in substories, and it's worrying me the games tone not taking itself seriously, yeah I get that it's fun sometimes but the strong thing about the games was always the drama.
18:11 i’d like to think that if the priority for the franchise was japanese players, then moving outside of japan was away to give them a taste of the virtual tourism that players from other countries praise the series for. it doesnt necessarily have to be pandering to western audiences or anything. either way, as someone who heavily favours the newer entries and the Yokoyama led games (just a matter of taste), there arent enough words to say how many incredible things Nagoshi has done for the series and i’d like to see both him and Yokoyama get the respect they deserve for their efforts.
Ngl one of the funniest things to me is how many people talk about nagoshis original vision, and then you found out they only expereinced yakuza 1 and 2 through the kiwami games
"Nagoshi left" seems more like an excuse to hate rather than a legitimate criticism of the games, because barely anything has changed tonally since his departure. I've always found this criticism that "Yakuza became too silly after Nagoshi left" very arbitrary, because Osaka Castle, Mirror Face, rubber bullets, all the secret underground societies, the giant squid/shark, and whatnot are on the same scale of ridiculousness. Kiryu alone fighting two tigers at once inside a magic secret golden gundam castle and winning is fine, but four badasses fighting a giant shark or squid is where we draw the line, huh? At the same time, 8 has some of the most brutal and gorey scenes in franchise history that are played with complete and sincere seriousness, but no one seems to remember them. Side note, I'd argue 8's themes are on the more mature end of all the Yakuza games, but unfortunately, many people don't engage with it on a thematic level. But, I digress. I think RGG games have never been in a better place in terms of overall quality and release pace, and that the tonal and gameplay shift they've taken since Yakuza 7 is the best possible one they could have taken. After all, you can only tell the same style of story so many times before it gets stale- and RGG knew this way back in 2009 with Yakuza 3, considering how different it was from 1 and 2 as far as stakes are concerned. That change in direction is necessary to keep the series alive, and they've adapted pretty well to the changing times, I feel. At the same time, there is plenty wrong with the games as far as consumer-friendliness goes, especially with how they just can't figure out what to do as DLC. Locking an entire moveset behind a DLC is something I'm very on the fence about to begin with considering how fighting games tend to do that already, but New Game+? Karaoke song? Consumable items? That's unacceptable, but that isn't because Nagoshi left- NG+ was DLC in Japan for Yakuza 7, back when he was the head honcho. It's corpos being corpos and unfortunately, neither RGG nor us can do much about that other than loudly tell them that that's not what we want from the games.
I think a reason the newer stuff like the giant shark and squid are where the line has drawn, is because the stories, generally, are much better than before-and because they've gotten better, those goofy things are more out of place than games that came out generations ago.
@@Boyzby Disagree, what happened to Kiryu in 0 through 6 was just as serious. People are drawing the line now because they started with 7 and haven't played the older games.
@@Boyzbynah stories were already good before, it's just that there is a blurrier line between the goofy side and the main story side since y7, like introducing mini games and substories through story. it doesnt please me much since i never was into these
I can agree with a lot of this, but the notion that they've never been in a better place in terms of quality is... a strange assertion. Other than the Ishin remake the only two games that have come out in the post Nagoshi-era are Infinite Wealth and Gaiden, and while Infinite Wealth has been pretty positively received (I haven't personally played it yet), Gaiden seems... pretty sub-par as an entry in this series? At best you could say it's premature to make a judgement with only 2 really new games, but asserting it's actually great right now with 1 good entry (on the RPG side) and one that's less than stellar is pretty weird.
It's not the silly stuff. It's the fact that the latest games have locked basic features behind a paywall and injected woke crap in them for no reason at all.
Just finished watching the video, amazing one as always. It's the perfect moment to discuss about this. Especially since Yakuza/Like A Dragon is growing a lot now worldwide. I've watched several videos and read articles regarding Nagoshi and Amusement Vision aka RGG Studio. I'll always be grateful to Nagoshi for being the creator of Yakuza/LaD. And I'm very amazed at the current work of the team at RGG under Yokoyama's leadership. I can understand how some people feel differently about Like A Dragon now, since one of the core aspects has changed. (the brawler combat) And as we're moving on, the yakuza underworld will probably fade away. (Just like Yakuza irl) But to think that Nagoshi's departure is the key to this change, I don't think this is the case. As you said, he was around when Yakuza 7 launched. And Lost Judgement, the sequel and direct consequence of Tojo and Omi dissolution, hinted at how RGG could shift the focus away from the Yakuza. I firmly believe that even if he was still on board, the games would've drifted away from Yakuza being central. Creating Yakuza/LaD games was always a team effort. Some games gave birth to icons who are still working in the studio nowadays. (Horii, Aoki, Ito, etc.) And from what I've experienced with the recent entries, the philosophy is still here. It just evolves to fit current matters. RGG still didn't renounce on Kiryu hitting women. They still don't want to make the player start a street fight. They still rely on the idea of maps not being overwhelmingly big, in order to ease the immersion. Yakuza/LaD is still here, it just evolves just as it always did. Let's not forget that theses games never just had the themes of underworld conflicts and drama. It was always also about adapting to current times, and life in general. Which is why there is some goofiness, and light hearted moments.
Yeah, Personally though, being relatively new to the series, i can't say i enjoyed infinite wealth in particular. I really think it suffers from a lot of writing issues that had me yelling "Why would kiryu do that!?!" as he told his real name to a man at the end of the game, ignoring the daidoji aren't suddenly inactive or something. it had me baffled that a slim lady was blocking hits from a beast like saejima with ease, and oh god. the legendary trio in general. Especially after the majima spinoff announcement.. i thought it was a way to give them a fittingly depressing ending to a story written in blood, but them just... showing up again at the end? All of the yakuza games had writing issues. i still don't understand 6 much. but i find myself coming back to the stories of kiwami 1,2 and 0. i can speak on them for hours. how each detail seemed so deliberate to me. Perhaps it just lost it's magic, i thought. but then i picked up judgement and replayed kiwami, and i had a blast! i 100%ed 7 too. Infinite wealth just felt like it went a few paces back while trying to be too up to date. while forgetting the precedent of the old characters they cling to while acting like They'll die next week. i honestly think i liked 7 because it hardly even brought the old gang into it. it was fresh. IW was like Leftovers. Judgment was fresh and it also slickly included regular appearances from the tojo clan while maintaining a new identity. but I'd rather a kiwami 3 and judgment 3 than anything. localizations would also be nice. ichi just rubs off as insufferable occasionally to me and with new kiryu in the mix it's like putting oreos into mountan dew. even the villans of IW felt cheap and somewhat motiveless. koriwa was a menace who killed at first for money and later to satisfy a need. the old palekana dude flooded all of Hawaii with a trained army and ichi kinda just shrugged it off. the jingwon took kiryu an entire gsme to deal with. i never associated the game with a face other than kiryu's and majima's.. usually together.. usually being gay.. but i feel like the old blood should mostly exist in spinnoffs now while lad tries to become something new.
I think Nagoshi is the "father" of many of the characters, so to speak. But I also think that the writing team has had time to learn a lot about how the characters "should" behave. Although this is RGG so at least once a game someone does something totally out of character and out of left field. Nagoshi leaving didn't change that. He may have started the franchise and done some awesome stuff as part of the team, but there have been awesome moments after his departure as well.
@@Chamomileable Not really I didn't like a single game after he left except for Ishin which was a remake! I honestly think the franchise lost it's spark after Nagoshi left! It just feels generic, woke and liberal now!
That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
This reminds me of how some people think Tetsuya Nomura is the brain behind all of Kingdom Hearts, or other projects that he works on. Sure, he's one of the central figures but he doesn't do everything, the franchise could continue even without him.
Kingdom Hearts excluding Disney was his baby, he designed and created those characters, while Final Fantasy, you could say it’s not his, but he designed a lot of characters there too since FFVI
@@MaxBraver555 Yeah, I know Nomura is responsible for the creation of a lot of things in KH. But he doesn't do everything. You can see in the KH3 credits that there's a Co-Director, a Scenario and Cutscene director, and many designers and artists for levels, maps and the game in general. I recently read that they're putting new people in charge of Missing Link, in order to bring new ideas to the table. Once a franchise has gone this long, it's not bad if the original creator steps down as long as there are competent people to take the mantle.
@@PokemonaMoni That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
@@BackstabbyBoy Sometimes having new and different ideas isn't bad. Like, I wish Sakurai would quit Smash and leave it to others to bring new ideas to the game. I don't mind if you disagree, to each their own
I think the only thing that is "ruining" Yakuza games is their legacy. Kiryu has been around almost without character development since after Yakuza 3 and we are running out of foils for him. Characters that died return for no good reason because we gotta have our fanservice. We are at 11 games that share a narrative. At this point, we either say goodbye to some beloved characters. My concern is that we just get on the wrong track. The trash pirates in infinite wealth were silly, but it is the kind of sidestory silliness that we get to expect - but the next game seems to be centered around golden age of piracy stuff in the modern area and starring Majima - who may always be a delight, but whose story also is already told. Yakuza is Yakuza if you have melodrama, silliness and a gritty crime story next to each other.
I think part of the issue is that characters like Kiryu and Majima are too popular. A lot of fans still do not accept Ichiban as the new protagonist. So to compensate, RGG added Kiryu back to the roster in Infinite Wealth as an attempt to appease older fans. Unless Kiryu and Majima’s popularity dries up, that is not likely to change anytime soon. Kiryu’s last game was meant to be Yakuza 3. They brought him back in 4 likely because RGG did not have the resources to make a fourth playable character at the time. Seriously, cut out Kiryu’s section of the story, aside from the interactions with Daigo in the end, nothing in the plot changes. They put Kiryu in Dead Souls and Yakuza 5 for what was likely similar reasons. Although by this point, Kiryu had cemented himself as the main face of the franchise. It is going to be a lot harder to sell a new protagonist now. Celebrating ten years of franchise history, of course Kiryu is going to be one of the main protagonists in 0. Especially considering that game serves as a prequel to Yakuza 1. Now this is where the problem really started. A good majority of the fanbase, likely two thirds of the fans we have today, got into the series with 0. Which gives less than favorable expectations to the characters of Kiryu and Majima. (One protagonist had a one and done story because the writers underestimated his potential amongst fans, and the other RGG was practically done with by that point.) The Song of Life was promoted as the last Kiryu game. Although that was a lie. The fact was that RGG was tired of kiryu and wanted to tell other kinds of stories for a while. Yes, we got Kiwami 2 but that was a remake of an already existing game. The only real additions being a new set of sub stories and mini games. The main theme of the Ichiban games is breaking the cycle and forging a new path ahead. They aren’t like the previous games in the series and that is the point. Times are changing. The yakuza are all but gone at this point, and the type of old school yakuza characters like Kiryu are seen as nothing more than romanticized archetypes. I like Kiryu as a character, but man, they did not give him much development outside of 0,1, and maybe 3. Althoug his inclusion is a little forced, I do like Kiryu’s journey in Infinite Wealth. It was a literal take on the whole, “evolve or die” ideology. The point is to show that some old dogs can learn new tricks and that it is never too late to take back control over your life. Kiryu was not dying so that the story could be more dramatic, Kiryu was dying because he had lost his ambition for life. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it’s pretty much depression cancer. The fact is, for better or worse, RGG will continue to use charscters like Kiryu and Majima to some capacity because they are just too popular. It was very heavily implied that Yokoyama only included Majima, Saejima, and Daigo in the last couple of games because Big Papa SEGA said that was what fans wanted. But why is Majima doing pirate stuff? Well he can’t go back to being a yakuza and Infinite Wealth shows that he cannot live as a civilian in Japanese society. RGG is also against having a game where the protagonist is an active member of the yakuza for the entire duration. So a 1990’s yakuza 0 sequel is also off the table. The only option left for a Majima focused game, which is only being made because Majima fans won’t stop clamoring for more Mad Dog content, is to give him a new start somewhere else.
I think RGG's direction would've probably changed even if Nagoshi didn't leave, but I personally don't mind either approach as both have their benefits.
@@mjc0961 tetsuya nomura, a character designer known for his work at square enix games and his work at DIRECTING kingdom hearts, not writing it, as kazushige nojima does the writing for kh although nomura might have SOME influence behind the crazy shit behind the plot of kh but that's neither here nor there
perfect topic. there are dozens of creative, hardworking people at rgg studio who helped make the franchise what it is, and as you pointed out, we don't even know many of their names. i never subscribed to "great man" readings of anything, including projects like these. changes in any project are almost always a collective effort/decision unless it's a structured such that only one person has absolute authority over absolutely everything
@@Mohammed1000real It was explained well enough to me, His main point was to make a fun game which also had good life lessons and just shows how to be proper, Reliable strong man In general he said it himself I think achieved more then enough., It was aimed for JP audience too so you got no right to complain about his vison for the franchise.
I wonder if it would have helped any if SEGA had left "Gaiden" in the English title for Pirate Yakuza. I see a lot of people acting like they think this is 9, like this is what the entire series is now. No, it's just one spin-off game starring the franchise's wackiest dude in a befittingly wacky adventure. So let loose, have fun with it, eventually 9 will come out and be a more grounded crime drama.
This is fated to happen every time "Original creator leaves the studio" or "series become a bit more mainstream", no matter how good the newer games are. There is definitely a change between newer and older games, but i don't see the older better than the newer ones and vice versa, every single game has something to offer, which is impressive for a 20 year old franchise with yearly releases. For the "the plot are sillier and less serious now" argument, sure that's true, but i would argue that it works sometimes in their favour. I have much less trouble accepting a giant squid boss fight in Infinite Wealth, a game that has a more outlandish plot, compared to the more "serious crime drama" Yakuza 2 with secret korean agents, the golden castle and whatever the fuck happens in the last chapter. Plus, if the story works, it doesn't matter how silly or serious it is. Y7 has some silly moments compared to a more "grounded" Y0, but i still love both stories and consider them the best of the franchise. And i have no doubt that, despite the silly premise, Pirate Yakuza will still have some moments of heartfelt seriousness that will let Majima's character shine
Look, I know its not even a Nagoshi problem. Its an identity problem. Its a complex discussion. The old Yakuza feels different than the modern stuff. And yeah I am a person who feels like the Yakuza series was influenced by Nagoshi's vision. Look, I'm happy for its success. I loved pretty much every game excluding Dead Souls. But there's a legit identity issue. I miss the hard boiled stuff. I loved the Yakuza 2 Kiryu stab scene. If I'm wrong to attribute that to Nagoshi, that's fine. This series used to be hardboiled. While I had theorized it to be Nagoshi, I'm not ashamed to admit I am wrong to attribute it to Nagoshi. I feel like we've sort of turned a legit crime drama into a parody series (and by that I mean the main story. Yes, the substories are different. Yes the substories are enjoyable). I am excited for the Pirate Yakuza, which is a massive feat in of itself. People, they don't make series like the Yakuza series anymore. If Yakuza ever ends, we will NEVER get a series as good as this again. That is why this sort of "hardboiled" soul means a lot to me. This series is magical to me. I listen to "Born to be Wild" almost daily and when I'm not listening to that, I'm listening to Bubble or With Vengeance or End or Denial. I want this series to continue for a long time while keeping its identity. That being said, I am more than man enough to admit I was overzealous over on X. If you found my behavior on that website intolerable Leon, then I apologize. Things just get lit on fire when I speak passionately. Sometimes there is such a thing as *bringing the heat* too much. If I came across as uncivil Leon, you have my apologies. Have a good day.
@@OneManCast Yeah, that's true. I enjoyed 7, but I could tell that it was starting to take the series in a new direction that I wasn't too excited about. I haven't played 8 yet, but from what I've heard it leans even more into comedy with downgraded writing to boot. It's a shame, but we've already gotten so many legendary games that I don't really mind if the series as we knew it ends.
Personally, i think it's just that Ichiban doesn't need to have the same serious story like Kiryu. Kiryu and his friends stories were rooted in sadness and a neverending circle of Kiryu being drawn back to the Tojo clan every time they faced a menace. The Man Who Erased His Name had a pretty hardboiled story like the previous entries, having very strong moments and narratives, it's just that Ichiban is a different person. Ichiban is no longer tied to the Yakuza in any way, he wants to be his own person, he doesn't live in the past and has moved on, Kiryu on the other hand can't move on he's forced to always pay his dues. The reason you think it's not "hardboiled" anymore it's because of the gameplay, the gameplay makes it feel too light and without impact.
I can see where you're coming from, and I agree. The hard boiled aspect can't be the same anymore even if they do serious cutscenes with Ichiban. I suppose the last time that even happened was in Gaiden, but the older games did it way better than that
12:19 I think what he said is fine, he knew what his audience was and appealed to that and it worked. When you try to appeal to everyone you appeal to no one. It would be in RGGs best interest to appeal to young adult/adult males considering this is an M Rated game btw. Also just because you've garnered a new audience doesn't mean you pander to that audience, there's a reason that new audience gravitated towards you.
If anything, I haven't seen a franchise with such intricate and convoluted stories and characters well defined by their personalities, maintain the same level of quality after it's creator left. I remember worrying for the franchise when Nagoshi left, nowadays I don't even think about it and most of the time forget he's not working there anymore. That's not a shot at Nagoshi, it's just to say how cohesive that team is and how they all seem to understand what this franchise is and who those characters are.
It was the same thing with me, about the time the game was released, i'm from Brasil, couldn't understand the language, i was 15 and was studying english at the time, but still, i fell in love with the game.
That game is 13 years old and there's 4 games after it (excluding the Layton crossover). I can see why people prefer Takumi because his AA stories are written with future games in mind. DD and SOJ are written as standalone adventures so newcomers can jump in more easily.
@@shingkung3974 I disagree. I actually HATE the first Great Ace Attorney because it clearly isn't a complete story. In fact, it actively hurt the Ace Attorney series far more than the "no spoiler" rule. Case in point, GAA2 was the lowest selling game in the series because the fans were annoyed that GAA1 didn't resolve any of its plot points. And GAA2's financial failure is why there hasn't been a new Ace Attorney game since.
I like both approaches. The current modern one, and the original one. Serial Crime Drama works. A funny Japanese Crime Drama Game works for me too. At the end of the day, it's all about the fun and games, the minigames, and beating people up. And I am fine with that.
I feel like even while Nagoshi was around, the series had already started undergoing a change. If he hadn't left, the most change I could imagine was the tiny Judgment cameos in Gaiden and IW and vice versa wouldn't have happened. I still think we would've ended up with Pirate Yakuza regardless, wouldn't have been that much different.
It's always the same people with a person cult when things are attributed to just a single person when a whole team of people worked on a project. Whether it is movie or game directors, etc.
@@EnvoyOfRot A director has a lot of influence on a product and is the most important person on a creative project. Look at Rareware, for example. After the Microsoft buyout, all the top brass left and they went from producing masterpieces to shovelware.
because they are the ones who have the final word in every choice the development team made, since the initaila phases to the final product. Directors are the bosses who guide the employees trough their own personal visions, and most of the cases they were founders and even created the first games that were important for a game or movie success. Is like a building, the architect is the principal responsible, even if there were many man working, but they are only fulfilling the architect vision and design. Same thing in classical music conducting, every conductor leaves his own impression of the music work they are conducting, and that's wht they have the credit same as the architect, but not all the workers behind the work.
@@marcraiderI hope you realize that in Japan, when making video games, it's not the director that has the higher authority to tweak and see what's in the game, more often than not it's the Producer role
@@darrylaz3570 I legitimately wonder if that's why Yakuza 0 hit as hard as it did. It was produced by a man named Mitsuhiro Shimano, which is a guy we never talk about.
It's also important to note that even Nagoshi and Yokoyama likely don't have as much of a say in DLC practices as people think they do. These kinds of business decisions are usually passed down by the publisher rather than being directly made by the studio itself, which in turn usually happens because of investors breathing down their necks. It's more of an unfortunate trend with the gaming industry as a whole that RGG happens to be affected by, rather than evidence of them suddenly turning greedy.
I just wish they toned down the 'crazy' elements a bit and went back to telling captivating crime dramas set in various Japanese cities. My dream Yakuza would be set in Tokyo and let us explore various locales, like Shibuya, Ikebukuro, Shinbashi and such. Maybe there would even be vehicles and whatnot. But instead we got pirates...
Honestly I think Ichibans games contrast the seriousness and silliness even better than Kiryus games, particularly Yakuza: Like a Dragon. The Pirate game is still great because it fully embodies the sillier side of Yakuza, a great contrast to the more emotional and serious Like a Dragon Gaiden
You do know that pirates are just a Gaiden spinoff, right? Like a Dragon 9 is still coming at some point and you'll get your more grounded crime drama. But that's going to take a lot longer to arrive, so until then, unclench and enjoy ridiculous pirate times with Goro Majima
I guess they just want to reuse Hawaii map a little bit longer. But heck yeah Shibuya and Ikebukuro would be nice, maybe if they could reuse and expand some of the cities from Y5 too, wonder how different 2020s look for them compares to 2012.
you know yakuza 7 still had some of the best drama writing in modern yakuza right? it seems like a lot of people have forgotten that it's still about never being too late to find fun or meaning in life even if ur as old as ichiban. also the pirate game is still a gaiden spinoff with the craziest yakuza character of COURSE it's gonna be more comedy leaning. we had a zombie shooter spinoff which is arguably even more crazy. lets just enjoy a non-serious yakuza once in a while.
To be fair Kiryu's Gaiden is pretty serious and in character for him. Majima who has been portrayed as crazy loose cannon (even before 0's explaination) should have a rather crazy gameplay that befits his character, no? I'm sure if they made Akiyama's Gaiden, it would probably more suave and noir, which fits his character. I get that, tonally, this one is leaning heavily towards the comedic side, but aside from the fact that its how Majima usually is (he was depressed in Y3 for being too serious), they might still surprise us with the story. I mean, I didn't expect so much tragedy going into 0.
This sort of "cult of personality" for game franchise directors is very common and it's ridiculously immature and shows how people on the internet like pretending they're experts of everything and anything. It's the same with Metal Gear and Kojima, with how people will credit Kojima as if he was the only one who ever worked on Metal Gear, hunched on his back alone in a dark attic in front of a bright computer screen when in reality it was teams of hundreds of dedicated game designers, engineers, and technicians who brought his ideas to life. Even the ideas that are credited to him aren't his alone, and often he needed someone to make sure his ideas were actually feasible and not entirely out of bounds. People need to stop treating AAA games by companies as massive as SEGA as if they're a one-man project and wise up to the reality that they're always a team effort.
I saw someone Doomposting on twitter (And i think it had a blue checkmark too) about that article of other western celebrities staring in the next games and this person was like: "B-But what if that's the start? and they have an american protagonist, set in a american city and it removes all the japanese aspect from it" and i was like ?????
I came into the series from buying Yakuza Kiwami on a whim, after an hour I was hooked and by the end I'd fallen in love with the game. I've since got 100% completion in every game released on Xbox (apart from Y8 which I'm currently working on) The series has become one of my favourites of all time and is very special to me and I will continue to support the studio regardless of who is at the helm which isn't even an issue for me personally. Thank you devilleon7 for all your content both yakuza and non yakuza. Your a great guy and pleasure to watch!! ⭐
Pretty much the same story for me, but with Yakuza 1 on PS2 - I randomly bought Yakuza 1 way back in 2006 or 2007 as Christmas gift to myself. I'd fallen in love with the game, and the series after that.
I agree that we should enjoy the games for what they are, but also criticize the glaring issues that have presented themselves (ex: The NG+ situations for 7, Gaiden and Infinite Wealth).
@@PitH0und Yet him and Majima in Project X Zone 2 were you have them hit, shoot, stab, slash and blow up female characters like Juri from Street Fighter was fine somehow
People forget that Masayoshi Yokoyama was the one involved in storytelling from the beginning. Even when Nagoshi was the general director, there were weird gimmicks such as the giant squid of infinite wealth and shark fights, and people talk as if Yokoyama was the one who started all the weird things after Nagoshi left. Yokoyama has just moved from story writer to general manager and continues to maintain the studio as Nagoshi originally did. And the RPG battle people hate wasn't led by Yokoyama. lol Nagoshi took the initiative. Why do fans of this series have distorted memories?
I feel like the conversation itself doesn't work. When they say the series is in decline, I just laugh. Sales of the series were already dropping before Nagoshi left the company. As a result, they felt they needed to take a more world-wide approach. That's what changed the Y7 to a turn-based approach and added Hawaii, a place outside of Japan, as a new spot. It's just their arrogant illusion that the series is in decline and the series has grown much more objectively and increased sales compared to the past. See how many pessimists exist in this video comment. Even if the series progresses further and further, they will constantly try to blame the game and only oppose any changes.
There is definitely change on creative decisions and you can't deny it. Grim aura of the originals are long lost. And it is understandable that some miss it.
the twitter discourse surrounding this is insane the series is in good hands, and people not understanding why the silliness happens when it does are the problem
I've seen people complain about reuse of assets which also made me laugh because Yokoyama is correct about all this, reusing assets means more time spent on developing the game rather than putting all this work into creating something for five seconds of screentime.
I’d love to see Shishido angrily ranting to other Daidoji agents about the state of the Yakuza in the 2020s lmfao This also makes me want to see his reaction to Ebina’s actions throughout LAD 8
People saying the story’s have gotten worse seem to forget that yakuza 4’s story shits the bed half way through and Yakuza 5 had no idea how to end so they threw a dart to see who the final boss would be.
Still both got a better story line then a like a dragon 7 & 8 imo and yakuza 4 was my very first yakuza game and the reason I started to play all the games on my ps3
@@gloriempaka9474 You clearly have a crap taste to say that 4 and 5 have better storyline than 7 or 8. Not surprised by the biased nostalgic goggles when you literally you claimed to start with 4. lmao
@@zeroskaterz92 hey my taste is not yo taste everybody got their opinion but yes I've started with 4 in 2010 and it's the reason I bought a ps3 because I used to be a xbox 360 fangirl for a while but then I was bored on UA-cam and watched a Japanese commercial about Yakuza 4 and I got hooked since so I bought Yakuza 1,2 & 3 later and for 1&2 i bought a old ps2 but anyway yes I dont think 7&8 in terms of story and gameplay are that good and even tho I love ichiban as a person the whole dragon quest thing is just silly to me and not in a good way
@@gloriempaka9474 The whole Dragon Quest thing is literally brought up in the early portion of the game. What are you on about? Such a terrible excuse. Kinda obvious that you didn't even play the game. A lot of yapping but couldn't even elaborate. You just proved my point that you're biased on the nostalgic goggles to think that 4 is better. lol
Ironically I like the games after Nagoshi left almost universally more (there are exceptions but not a ton). But they never felt like they “changed”. Every game in the franchise feels like a natural step forward for the most part (5 maybe being the only exception in some ways considering they just threw out most of the Yakuza 4 story) I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think every game in the franchise has something really admirable 1 has great pacing 2 has the best feeling combat of the early games 3 develops Kiryu as a character better than any other game 4 has some of the most fun character introductions and new gameplay ideas 5 has borderline too much to do 0 is has the most approachable aesthetic 6 is WILD with a completely new moveset and engine and has every piece of dialogue voice acted 7 has hands down the best story in my opinion And 8 feels so good to play I genuinely think it might be one of the best feeling RPGs out there. They all have problems but they all have ridiculous highs. For all the problems I have with Yakuza 5 punching a giant bear fucking ruled. Sorry for the long comment, it’s just the idea that one person is responsible for all of that is ridiculous to me.
Yakuza 0’s quality writing is due to Yokoyama penning his arguable best so far AND having notable co-writers, particularly Tsuyoshi Furuta, who would go on to be the primary writer of the Judgment games while still co-writing mainline entries. Speaking of the Judgment series, Nagoshi entirely spearheaded both Judgment and Lost Judgment as not just as a writer but specifically their general director, also becoming personal friends with Takuya Kimura (actor/likeness of Yagami & this info can be found in interviews/promos online with Nagoshi) Both Judgments are arguably the most he’s been involved with this franchise, at least for his final years within Sega. So with that in mind, I’m surprised this video didn’t touch upon that regarding the effects of Nagoshi’s influence and departure. Like I hate to say it, but his departure (due to Sega wanting him in a less creative/more executive role) is likely a reason for why Judgment 3 appears to be taking so long (excluding other obvious factors like Kimura’s busy schedule) as Nagoshi was the confirmed visionary and creative mastermind behind the creation of the Judgment spin-offs. Tangentially related, but Daisuke Sato is another BIG RGG employee who left with Nagoshi yet sadly fans don’t seem to discuss as much what effects his departure have or haven’t had on these recent entries.
Yeah this is my main issue with this video, I've been a Yakuza fan since 2018 never have I seen someone saying "Nagoshi alone made yakuza good" like this video is discussing a problem that isnt there to begin with. what they (me included) say that yakuza has become different when Nagoshi left I mean exactly what you said, the man had an impact that no one can deny. not saying the games are now complete dogshit, its still yakuza but naturally not the same and its okay if someone just prefers older games. now try to say that to "*yakuza fans*" and count down to 3 before they hit u with the "but yakuza was always silly you stupid tourist lmao have you ever played the games🤓🤓" Also, I genuinely dont understand the yokoyama dick riding. like the man wrote some shitty plots that nagoshi straight up told him "yea man your idea is just shit". yokoyama wanted kiryu to have dementia in 3 and then start "exploring himself" or smth like that not quite sure. so when you compare yokoyama as a lead writer in 8 and Furuta as a lead writer in JE you can see the huge difference. yokoyama is better as a side writer imo, idk what people are on about really. cant wait for judgement 3 to drop with yokoyama's writing lol.
@@KhaledSham The lead writer of 8 was Takeuchi. As the studio head, Yokoyamas is less involved in that aspect these days. Also, Furuta hasn't been poached by Nagoshi Studio yet so I would still expect him to be the main screenplay writer for a hypothetical Judgment 3.
I personally am not a fan of the RPG combat system and genuinely do want it to go back to just being a beat 'em up, but I didn't really contribute that to Nagoshi leaving.
It seems like RGGS is very aware of the demand for both genres so something like the upcoming Gaiden will be beat 'em up as a break from LAD8, I think it's cool that they try to deliver both when possible.
Me too, I'm glad to see someone else still agrees. I'm not trying to hate on 7 and 8 though, it's just my preference to have action gameplay in yakuza, and I love multiple other turn based games
@@devilleon7 The only problem I really have with this is that I want the main entries to be fully beat 'em up, not RPG. It doesn't fit Ichiban perhaps, but seeing Kiryu in the RPG format really rubbed me the wrong way. I'd really like for them to either give us a new protag with the beat 'em up formula OR to use the old characters in main entry games with said style. (Seijima, Majima, Akiyama, etc). The upcoming Majima game looks fun, but I kinda think it's gonna be shorter than I want it to.
@@devilleon7 It's definitely how we should all be when discussing opinions, even if it's a strong opinion, it doesn't have to be personal or disingenuous
Love that you did this video Leon, there's so many people out there who just talk like they have all the facts when they just.. don't lol, and that's not even mentioning how they talk for Nagoshi like they know him
I initially found it weird that the game was turning into an RPG as I've gotten used to the usual beat-em-up format, but I then I played IW out and found that it was great fun in a different yet fresh way. The whole "Nagoshi leaving caused the end of Yakuza" to me seems like a guise for what the underlying message is in the subconscious of those that type it out, their fear of change. Just because something is different, doesn't mean its bad. We as human beings need to change to adapt to things around us or we get left behind, its not just a company thing, its human nature and it sucks that some are unable to see that
Memories are fleeting,we makes them as we see fit how we feel at the moment. Sometimes the past seem better but back then we were wrought with worries of uncertain future. It's a good thing that Yakuza community have good influencer like Devileon to help us reflect the past to the present. Thank you for the video.
I'm a new fan who eventually plans to get into the series and I find the idea that the series is trash without Nagoshi lame because it's in pretty good hands and he was around when the stuff like rubber bullets and the messy plot of Yakuza 5 were a thing. Heck he was also around when the first movie based on the first game came out. He wasn't this one man army who made the games by himself, he had help and the contributions of so many talented people who most fans don't even know exist
Yokoyama has been there ever since the beginning and I have a lot of respect for him, I love the new direction the series is heading with Ichiban and no doubt that's the work of a team of people who really know what they're doing. Yes, a team, there are still plenty of og devs at RGG Studio aside from Yokoyama. I believe the series is in good hands.
In fact, I think this debate is endless. Even if the game gets better with much better quality, the naysayers who think the series is ruined will not stop blaming Yokoyama and the current developers and will swear at everything that comes out. Just looking at the comments in this video, there seem to be a lot of people distorting facts with futile logic, but I'm surprised that there are people who think it's no big deal that infinite wealth has sold 1 million copies. The series has almost never achieved more than 1 million copies in a single piece since the release of Y1. The best-selling works are JUDGMENT and like a dragon, and the other works may have sold less than 1 million copies in a single sale alone. Under these circumstances, the fact that infinite wealth achieved more than 1 million sales in a week after its release is a fact that cannot be ignored and is a big achievement in the series. Opponents are ignoring this sales because they don't like infinite wealth. Also, their outrageous response to the pirate majima game. Even though it's a traditional action game that many users respected, rather than a turn-based battle, the game even accuses it of being terrible, even though the demo version hasn't been released yet. They try to recklessly judge the game in a way that it's already the worst. I gave up trying to convince them. What logic should I use to convince people who already have only one decision in their head?
I don't really care who's there and who left So long as they keep making bangers with incredible characters and heartfelt stories, I'm following them wherever (Peakuza Kiwami 3 and Judge Eyes 3 when??)
whenever a new writer, or project lead takes over in any piece of media, people will always hate the new guy and praise the old guy, regardless of what they may have felt before. Doctor Who jumps from showrunner to showrunner every couple of years, it's a tradition for the show to always be moving forward, always changing and evolving, but every time there's a new showrunner, people will always hate them and praise the one that came immediately before, regardless of how much they may have hated them while they were still around. This happens a lot, in entertainment, politics, everything.
12:11 I think the result of targeting a very specific demographic is that they singularly focused on what would make the game appealing and discarded what won't be, but it just turns out that what they thought only the adult Japanese men like has a wider appear that cuts across demographics. I'm of the idea that they should maintain a focused perspective, not necessarily narrow it down, keep what makes the series appealing while trying to experiment. Don't try to appeal to as many people as possible intentionally, because personally it would come off as an unfocused product.
I hate it when people attribute something's success to just one person and act like that person is akin to some divine being who can do no wrong, then when that person steps away from the project it's suddenly "changed" or "took a turn for the worse". It feels incredibly disrespectful to not only the team but that person, because do you really think they just left that project without a second thought, leaving it in the hands of people with completely different visions to theirs and what made the franchise successful in the first place? It's like they're trying to cope with the fact that that person isn't apart of the team anymore which is a weird behaviour to have since they more than likely have never met said person before, let alone met them
I really like the point of this video. RGG games are definitely different than what they used to be, this is undebatable. But to blame one person on the series being 'ruined' is ridiculous. I do think it'd be cool if LAD9 goes for an approach less bombastic than 7&8, but more because I like the different vibes each game gives and I wanna give Kasuga something new and unique to do. It'd also be really effective to have right after 8 Gaiden
"The Yakuza series became really silly in it's last entries, it's not a serious crime drama anymore!". I'm more of a recent fan, but i've played through all of the mainline games in the series, and wasn't it always like this? For example, Yakuza 0 had it's fair share of funny moments, even in it's main storyline. I feel like this series(like a lot of other japanese games and anime) is really great at striking this balance between "serious" and "silly" moments.
I’m also a fairly new fan, but I think there’s a huge difference between “gritty crime drama with over the top violence that becomes almost comical and also you fight a tiger and at some point and you can play with you cars if you want on the side” and “Arrrr Majima be a Tricorn wearing Pirate with an 17th century ship now” I don’t even have a problem with Ichiban’s games beyond the stories being kind of a mess, but for Yakuza Pirate in particular, it’s not accurate to say “the series has always been like this.” We all agree the series has been great at balancing the serious and the less serious, this pirate shtick is blatantly silly. I’m sure it’ll be fun, but let’s at least be honest here
@@colfdralegendIdk, fighting a huge bear after a dramatic moment, a golden castle inside a castle and fight two full grown tigers bare handed, is much more surreal than having Pirates in modern century as somekind of secret underworld shenanigans that Majima strumbled on.
@@yohschannel5226 my point is the more out of this world stuff was usually not the main premise of the game. And really, I personally just feel that an “underground pirate society” is the most out of this world idea in the series yet, and it’s hard for me to believe it’s not mostly in Majima’s head, or a bs story he’s telling to explain where he disappeared to (which I would enjoy). Also, there’s the virtual tourism angle. *This is may be a less important point and maybe just a me thing though,* I just feel like saying it. Pirates feels like a very strange choice for Hawaii to me, it’s a place that has barely had any connection to pirates as we know them, if at all. It feels like they though, they’re by the sea… with ships… like pirates! I don’t know if I’d go so far as to call it disrespectful, but it just feels off to me
@@colfdralegend I think it's kinda of a reach to say that and not just "They wanted to reuse the Honolulu city map" like they did with Yokohama in LJ with Real time combat. And again, i think Underground pirate society sounds cool asf to NOT do just because it sounds absurd
Ngl as much as i appreciate nagoshi and all of his contributions, and hope his next game does wonders, the yakuza/lad franchise is more than just him, and yokoyama seems fine manning the helm rn, so if people actually have this notion on nagoshi they need to chill, lol
People think that Yokoyama is a new hire at RGG but forgot that he's been around since the very first game. And also has a prolific bio when it comes to the games he's developed and had a part in making but that won't stop some fans from blaming him for some of the recent things the games have been doing.
@@TojoMember760Yeah he’s no new hire, but at the same time people can change over 20 years, Yokoyama did say some stupid stuff after 8’s release too, about video games causing violence bs. I’m pretty sure a lot of those folks haven’t even gotten into a fight but somehow they cause real violence.
@@MadDogSolo if that really is the case then that's the only thing about him that I don't agree with a lot but everything else I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing
is true that we have to thank Nagoshi for creating Yakuza in the first place but all this games where created thanks to the pastion and effort of lots of people and aye I'm probably no the most qualifed fan to say this since I started with zero and only played what is available on modern consoles but what made me fall in love with this franchise is still there that "RGG vibe" still goes hard and true not all games are gonna be perfect but the fact that you never know that to expect from this studio is what makes it so special to me at least
The way people treat Nagoshi reminds me a lot of Kojima, it's so strange the way people act like they singlehandedly wrote the code or something. I've seen people get angry that kojima wasn't involved with the new silent hill shit ffs😭 just like some strange parasocial cult type thing
Kojima is the visionary behind his games. Without him, the games would be different. May be better, may be worse, but fans are interested in Kojima's vision specifically. More or less same with Nagoshi, though he is much less of a visionary.
@@Lele-nr3fq Your statement is quite literally the point @MaybeOrangeJuice made. It's one thing to not be interested with the new Silent Hill, especially with Konami executives acting like the way they do, but getting angry over Silent Hill not having Kojima involved is just plain bizarre. I hate Konami as much as everyone else, but Kojima is the sole producer that made me feel sorry for any publisher ever. I don't know how much money Kojima spent, but looking at the hour long MGS 4 ending scene and ultra long MGS 5 intro sequence, I do know that he is wasting a ton of resources. The fact that his first project as the sole decision maker is a FedEx Simulator with tons of actor cameos further convinced me that he simply does not know how to make a sustainable product and need someone to rein his spending in. I still play MGS and it's one of my most favorite game ever, but seeing people praise Kojima to the point of cult-like worship is way over the top.
@@HendyVelarius I was mostly referring to the point 'people act like they singlehandedly wrote the code' in the original comment. Kojima was irreplaceable for the projects he done in the past, even if he obviously done mistakes as a creator, and we shouldn't undermine his role. Idk about why people are getting angry, I don't really follow the news on this. Probably disappointment channeled in a wrong way, because those fans specifically want to see 'a Hideo Kojima game', with all his quirks and 'wasted resources', as you put this. They may feel wronged by that fact that 'a Kojima game' does not belong to Kojima anymore.
FWIW Kojima himself has a bit of a history of being somewhat of a control freak so he tends to take up more spaces on the production side of things than the average dev would so a bit more understandable why that happens. And even then he'll be the first to admit that he does oftentimes need people (Namely Shuyo Murata and Yoji Shinkawa) to tell him "Dude, you're going off the rails."
Hideo Kojima is different. His games are directed, produced, designed and writren by him. English not my 1st language so sorry if any mistakes. Also Nagoshi and Hideo are friends.
Uh... leon... what are you talking about? The series has always been 100% super duper serious... Like... i'm sure you can conjure the power to create doppelgangers of yourself...
On the matter of Nagoshi saying that he was making games for Japanese men I think that the tends to be a disconnect with some people when the matter of intended audience is brought up. You can make something for an intended audience and still draw in a wider audience than expected. The best example of this would be the brony boom in the 2010. Just because someone isn’t part of a set group doesn’t mean that it won’t draw in people who aren’t of that group. Let’s say I started an authentic Chinese restaurant. Family style service, 15 types of dim sum, spicy food that actually makes people sweat, whatever. This might be founded on the idea of making authentic food for Chinese people to enjoy outside of their own home but it will also draw people who also enjoy authentic Chinese food with its hard to pronounce name and unusual ingredients. Now let’s say that the chef changes and wants to bring in a “wider audience” he stops using some of the more uncommon ingredients, he starts cooking things in a more American style, he tones down the spices for people with sensitive tongues. By the end of it the authentic restaurant it’s just PF Chang’s under a different name and all the people that were there for authenticity leave and it becomes just another option in a area that has 4 other Chinese restaurants with the exact same menu. By making games with a specific group in mind he is able specialize in a way that makes it stand out. It’s the same reason that souls games stand above the crowd of souls like and that the game that is considered the best of them, Bloodborn, is the most narrow and specialized of them all.
17:01 Yokoyama is so based for this. Many people say that asset re-use is lazy. But imo, NOT making use of assets you already have available is lazy. Why waste time remaking the same stuff, when you can use that effort to make a game that's better than the previous one?
You can definitely feel his absence from Super Monkey Ball, but Yakuza is truly in good hands. New Game Plus issues aside, Infinite Wealth is one of the best games in the series.
I don't see how anything changed after Nagoshi left. The games have pretty much felt the same. One could argue the tone has slowly veered away from being a full on Yakuza story though I guess that has more to do with the yakuza's diminishing presence in reality.
I fell in love with the series after playing Kiwami 1 and 2 and Yakuza 0 and judging by the positive reception of each of the post-Nagashino games the series is in good hands
I know someone who's been disillusioned with Yakuza lately. They say that due to Yakuza 0's success (which kickstarted the whole "funni haha" moments) and worldwide releases, the series became a circus, ultimately disrespecting Nagoshi's actual vision in the process. They believe these are the reasons why it'll creatively kill the franchise as we speak... Even tho: Toshihiro Nagoshi hasn't been truly involved in the franchise since Yakuza 3-4, and the series has always been a clownfest. (Rubber Bullets, Secret Koreans, Takayuki Yagami's Pro Skater-- *and Nagoshi was directly involved in this one* ). Yakuza: Like A Dragon simply embraces the circus. Knowing Nagoshi's new studios wants to replicate the success of RGG, I expect a similar pattern to also happen in the next...2-6 installments.
The obsession with "auteurs" in the industry needs to get dialled back by a lot. People like Kojima, Druckmann, Nagoshi, and Henning undoubtedly have all played huge roles in bringing about all these franchises that we have come to know and love. However, unless you are a solo indie dev, making videogames is a GROUP EFFORT. Just because there's one or two people who seem to be the most prominent members of the team does not mean they were left inside of a cave and they made the entire product from scratch all alone, Iron Man style. If anyone would pay a little more attention during the credits, there are hundreds upon hundreds of people credited with helping the completion of the product and plenty more who were indirectly involved. Maybe a friend of one of the devs gave him a suggestion about something he'd like to see in the game and then they brought it up to the team who then proceeded to add it into the game because that's how creating things work. Nothing is made in a limbo. There's no single person sitting at the top of the chain who has a completely original idea, not inspired by anything, who then makes an entire game out of thin air.
That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
I think Nagoshi partly departed because of Sega and the direction modern Yakuza was going. I prefer the serious crime drama with SOME goofy moments. Rather than the entirety of the game just being goofy with SOME serious moments.
The real reason Nagoshi left is because he didn't want to be promoted to CEO of Sega, which would likely mean he would have much less time and involvement with making games, there's a bunch of interviews on it.
I love every Yakuza games before the crappy turn base, coincide with Nagoshi leaving now it makes sense. I grew up with Y1 and Y2 on the PS2.Hell Judgement/Lost Judgement is the soul of the game not some persona crap. Huge disappointment when I saw the pirate Majima, it could've been a standalone Judgement style to see how cool Majima is in combat with skills involved...
apparently there's "no skills involved" in whipping cutlasses around like boomerangs and doing thug style attacks while they boomerang around also just ignoring the mad dog style completely i guess the fact this has 6 likes is insane to me i can respect not liking the genre shift, but i don't really understand why you have a problem with this the combat looks like it could top LJ and the story's pretty unique for RGG and even if it's not a super interesting story i'm sure it'll still be a fun story
I guess I mentioned some inappropiate stuff so it got autodeleted by UA-cam. So I'm paraphrasing what I commented. I agree with Yokoyama about reusing the asset. My friends from college/university started their game studio, created their own games. From time to time, they were tasked to make educational games (government contract stuff) and they have to reuse asset from games to games as that's the most efficient way to make games and able to ship the game within time. I mean it's the same "if it works, don't touch it". About Hawaii, Japanese people loves Hawaii as American love freedom, guns, hamburger and oil. It's on par with Okinawa, despite Okinawa is their own land. About the violence (YT probably auto deleted this part), I watched a clip from a channel that analyze about film/tv series stuff and he mentioned about violence and other "adult stuff" (basically games genre that rockstar made and kinda popular during their prime). Some "big shot" director/writer from film industry said that "if you want to put those stuff in the media, it has to have significant or profound meaning to the plot. If you just put it in just for the sake of it, it'll just ruin the whole thing". So what Nagoshi worried is probably if there's time that he made characters that probably "too one-dimensional", basically just violence because of .. he just is. I think baby Iwami is probably closest to that one. I'm not sure when that interview is conducted but if it's after Y6 then it's understandable. I think what people worried is "will RGG studio go downhill like other studios when their significant founder(s) or director(s) left the company?". Because we saw so plenty of that these days, like studios that rhyme with "forksteaky" or the name of Yakuza 8 that made those infamous multiplayer FPS. Ps. I guess I'm probably wrong in the last paragraph, considering comments within an hour or two prior to this one lol
You hit the nail on the head with Yakuza/LAD being both blessed and cursed becoming more popular now. When a series gets more popularity, you end up losing some of the magic that made it interesting in the first place.
Meme culture has portrayed this series as this goofy city adventure with wacky characters, so it feels like that's what the series is leaning more into now. In reality, Yakuza/LAD has always been a more down-to-earth, emotional and hard-boiled drama. The side quests are on the funny side to give a breath of fresh air from the more serious main story. Now it's bought us this fandom civil war between "Serious Yakuza" vs. "Silly Yakuza".
The main story wasn't exactly serious early on. Yakuza 1 had Shimano with all his hammy goodness and Kiryu's questionable ways to spend time with the child he cares for.
I mean tbf even infinite wealth still had the searxh for ichibans mother the former yakuza being used al slave labour a cult trying to kill a child. Sure ichiban is goofy and some things are definitely over the top but look at yamai's story and tell me that wasn't serious.
PREACH BROTHER the normies have ruined it with the meme culture
still like the series before they changed its title to LAD
@@Kazuma_Drake can't believe you just used normies unironically.
I will never understand the notion... it's a studio, not a single man work when it comes to games. I am pretty sure Nagoshi was happy to leave it in the hands of the current team.
Hes called a director for a reason, he was responsible for the direction yakuza was going in
@@ckn3481 One man can be very influential. When Kojima left Konami the next game they made was Metal Gear Survive.
Very true @@renotv3860
Director has the biggest impact on the whole product.
You wouldn't believe the amount of games that failed because they lacked a good director, or the amount of games that were saved because they had a good one.
Nagoshi put his career in danger at the beginning for the franchise, he believed on his game and his ideas, and you can feel a little of his philosophy on each character about being true to oneself even if it means to make the entire world your enemy.
The job of a director is to guide the project so It doesnt stray too much from what is suppose to be (see what happened to DR 4) and what ideas you can actually put in the game.
People attributing the success of a property to a single individual is sadly nothing new, but the amount of people using the exit of such a creative force as a justification for their own lack of enjoyment in the series nowadays is something I really didn't expect. The conversation quickly steers from „what Yakuza used to be“ to „what I want Yakuza to be“ while shutting out any meaningful discourse around the concept of an evolving IP in the process. Glad to see you pointing out the absurdity of the back-and-forth in a constructive manner 👍
It would be so much better for someone to just admit they don't enjoy the series anymore rather than pretend like it's slop that no one should enjoy when many people still do. Nothing is wrong with either.
EXACTLY, preach brotha
Kinda like Metal Gear Solid.
It was much more than just Kojima.
This is nothing like Kojima. Nagoshi would have stayed forever, but he parted ways because SEGA wanted him to have more of a leadership role. He left because he wasn’t interested in that and just wanted to be a creative director. His departure was on good terms.
Yeah. The sonic fandom is now facing this too: people that enjoy the 2000's games are crapping to the new ones because the series is not cathering to that part of the fanbase anymore, but instead of admitting that they are doing extreme mental gymnastics to convince everyone that sonic 2006 is actually one of the greatest games of all time
Nagoshi was promoted within the company long before he left, he was an exceutive not a project manager. I see 0 get thrown around as if it was made by nagoshi and that was a result of the nagoshi design philosphy. For one if that were true, why weren't games before or after that like yakuza 0? And like yokoyama who is treated like the bad guy by these people is literally the lead writer on 0
The RGG games have pretty intriguing highs and lows. One game will have the best story of the year and then the next one somehow doesn't hit as much. It's like how Yakuza 7 hit hard for me but IW didn't hit as hard, even if I did enjoy it.
@@devilleon7 I feel like part of the narrative is that people have convinced themselves 0 was "how the series used to be" when its the 6th mainline yakuza game. The reality is the series is and always has been inconsistent. These are flawed games but they're great
@@synthiandrakon Not only that but this franchise experiments all the time whether it's with story concepts or gameplay ideas. I think it's neat.
@@devilleon7 Biggest example I can remember - RGG decided to experiment and change the engine completely on Kiryu's supposed last game (RGG6), and that experiment turned out to be the Dragon Engine. I remember people lamenting that as well.
@@sapphire3084 The engine itself wasn't an experiment, Yakuza 6 and it's numerous experimental features, sure. It was always intended to be a next-gen game engine.
People always like fantasize the idea of one man who could do no wrong, one man who leads his team and be the face of a franchise or a genre, and every other people who tries to follow in their steps to be considered inferior, pretenders to the throne. This happens all the damn time, from Nomura (often blamed for anything wrong with FF, even on things he wasn't involved in), to Takashi Yamazaki (often compared unfavorably to Shu Takumi in the AA series).
What people often never realize is that creators are still human, they still make mistakes, and that it is ALWAYS a team effort that made a game so great. Too many times an acclaimed figure in the industry both rise and fall because of this mentality, be it Yu Suzuki, Keiji Inafune, Yuji Naka, or hell, YoshiP even counts, because people like to believe they could do no wrong, yet the moment they did it wrong, it blemishes their record and damages their public reputation forever. Sure some of their downfalls are mostly of their own doing, be it mismanagement (Suzuki, Inafune), or just straight-up crime (Naka), but that's the thing, they are still human, and not one man can truly define a series or create it's success. It's always been a team effort. Are we really gonna say YoshiP is washed when FF16 is proven divisive and not a knockout success like FF14 did? Of course not.
Same goes for Nagoshi and Yakuza. Yakuza always has been a team effort, not just Nagoshi, but others like Yokoyama, Horii, and many more lend a hand to raise the series together. Having Nagoshi be hailed as the father of the series like gospel feels wrong, hell we don't even know whatever happened to his next game at Nagoshi Studio, 3 years after he left, so when he finally show it, and it turns out its not good compared to Yakuza, are we gonna turn on him and pretend his contributions never exists? This should be something worth thinking of.
the thing is that a director has the final word on every choice, if he don't like something the main writter did, he told him to change it, if he don't like a music track or wanted a different aproach, he told that to the music composer, if he don't like or want a different level design he told the team how they have to even remade the entire level or game (like Shinji mikami when he was at advanced phase of the original RE 4, but decided to transformed in Devil May Cry and restart from scratch the game we all know). If the director changes, the general vission change too, and that's why people is always afraid (take for example Starwars, Gorge Lucas sold to disney the franchise, and now Disney ruined with all the woke sh.t). Ofc there are other cases when the change of director was great, like the development of the original Resident Evil 2, Shinji Mikami made an advanced version of the game, but he wasn't happy with the result, so he as a producer too, hired another director that made the successful game that made more important the saga.
Now I´m not sayin in this specific of RGG case that the change of director is a bad thing, because the last Yakuza games were very good, but I really can sense a different direction in many areas, I´m still waiting to play future Yakuza games to see if the new direction is gonna be the same, worst or even better than the original vision of Nagoshi, just hoping for RGG that the new directors don't sellout to woke propaganda like many other games.
@@marcraider You said this twice on two different comments now, my views haven't changed, more often than not in Japan it is the game producer that held a higher authority over the director.
Also, Yokoyama and Horii have been with the series since the first game yet somehow Nagoshi gets all the glory and praise? Are we gonna keep do this to any up and comer rising stars in the industry, and then belittle them when they're proven to not be infallible and their next game isn't as good?
If this year's collections of the Apollo Justice Trilogy and the Investigations Collection has taught me anything, it's that the hate for Takashi Yamazaki is completely unreasonable.
Heck, I'll get even spicier - Great Ace Attorney are the weakest games in the franchise. And who did those? 🤔
(Not saying they're BAD - just that they're the weakest, least interesting, least fun to revisit games. The writing is very rambly and drawn out and most of the characters are a chore - especially Sholmes and Natsume. They're up there with Moe the clown for most obnoxious characters in the whole franchise.)
Shu Takumi is great, but he is not perfect and any other writer/director/etc is not immediately trash. Everybody's out there acting like Yakuza and Ace Attorney suffered the same fate as Metal Gear Solid after Konami got rid of Kojima. Absolutely not, neither franchise has a Metal Gear Survive.
ace attorney jumpscare
@@mjc0961did you just compare sholmes to fucking moe
I don’t mind RGG Studios, reusing the assets, as long as the game is good, people will enjoy it
I enjoyed kaito files reusing brawler and beast
Their reusing assets is how we get new releases regularly rather than waiting 5 years or so.
Objectively correct. You can probably find animations in Elden Ring that Fromsoft has been using since Demon's Souls. Fans will pick up on it, but nobody really cares as long as the games are good.
I feel very strongly that if Sega had kept Nagoshi's departure from RGG Studio a secret somehow, "the series fell off specifically after Lost Judgment" would not be any more popular a take than any other personal 'jump the shark' moment.
People are just so desperate to find individuals they can credit or blame over trends they don't like, that they'll convince themselves those trends were caused by a specific person, even when the evidence doesn't line up.
I get you, though I still think LJ is better than what has came after it so far.
@@MadDogSolo Most RGG fans would agree that Kiwami, 6 and Kiwami 2 were not nearly as good as Yakuza 0.
Yet there was no headline worthy change in the development team for fans to blame for that. So if that kind of dip can happen at any time, why should anyone assume that this new (supposed) dip is caused by the departure of Nagoshi?
@@JackChristmas I’d agree there too that they aren’t as good as 0.
@@MadDogSoloWhereas I would say that Lost Judgement has the worst story in the whole series
@@falsetitle6940 but what about sawa sensei? 😔😔
Eventually, we'll reach the point of people saying they miss the "edgy and mature" localization of yakuza 1
we genuinely already reached that point, i saw that take quite a few times unironically around the time gaiden was coming out
TEN YEARS IN THE JOINT
Still better than Yong Kiryu tho
I personally enjoy some edgy, although I enjoy the goofy being only in substories, and it's worrying me the games tone not taking itself seriously, yeah I get that it's fun sometimes but the strong thing about the games was always the drama.
@@synthesis8157 which is why im honestly interested in how the story will go in the amazon series
Already half way there with people complaining how the series used to be a grounded and realistic crime drama
18:11 i’d like to think that if the priority for the franchise was japanese players, then moving outside of japan was away to give them a taste of the virtual tourism that players from other countries praise the series for. it doesnt necessarily have to be pandering to western audiences or anything.
either way, as someone who heavily favours the newer entries and the Yokoyama led games (just a matter of taste), there arent enough words to say how many incredible things Nagoshi has done for the series and i’d like to see both him and Yokoyama get the respect they deserve for their efforts.
I like to think that Nagoshi leaving Sega changed the tone and mood of the story however saying that the series was ruined is just wrong.
Ngl one of the funniest things to me is how many people talk about nagoshis original vision, and then you found out they only expereinced yakuza 1 and 2 through the kiwami games
"Nagoshi left" seems more like an excuse to hate rather than a legitimate criticism of the games, because barely anything has changed tonally since his departure. I've always found this criticism that "Yakuza became too silly after Nagoshi left" very arbitrary, because Osaka Castle, Mirror Face, rubber bullets, all the secret underground societies, the giant squid/shark, and whatnot are on the same scale of ridiculousness. Kiryu alone fighting two tigers at once inside a magic secret golden gundam castle and winning is fine, but four badasses fighting a giant shark or squid is where we draw the line, huh?
At the same time, 8 has some of the most brutal and gorey scenes in franchise history that are played with complete and sincere seriousness, but no one seems to remember them. Side note, I'd argue 8's themes are on the more mature end of all the Yakuza games, but unfortunately, many people don't engage with it on a thematic level. But, I digress.
I think RGG games have never been in a better place in terms of overall quality and release pace, and that the tonal and gameplay shift they've taken since Yakuza 7 is the best possible one they could have taken. After all, you can only tell the same style of story so many times before it gets stale- and RGG knew this way back in 2009 with Yakuza 3, considering how different it was from 1 and 2 as far as stakes are concerned. That change in direction is necessary to keep the series alive, and they've adapted pretty well to the changing times, I feel.
At the same time, there is plenty wrong with the games as far as consumer-friendliness goes, especially with how they just can't figure out what to do as DLC. Locking an entire moveset behind a DLC is something I'm very on the fence about to begin with considering how fighting games tend to do that already, but New Game+? Karaoke song? Consumable items? That's unacceptable, but that isn't because Nagoshi left- NG+ was DLC in Japan for Yakuza 7, back when he was the head honcho. It's corpos being corpos and unfortunately, neither RGG nor us can do much about that other than loudly tell them that that's not what we want from the games.
I think a reason the newer stuff like the giant shark and squid are where the line has drawn, is because the stories, generally, are much better than before-and because they've gotten better, those goofy things are more out of place than games that came out generations ago.
@@Boyzby Disagree, what happened to Kiryu in 0 through 6 was just as serious. People are drawing the line now because they started with 7 and haven't played the older games.
@@Boyzbynah stories were already good before, it's just that there is a blurrier line between the goofy side and the main story side since y7, like introducing mini games and substories through story. it doesnt please me much since i never was into these
I can agree with a lot of this, but the notion that they've never been in a better place in terms of quality is... a strange assertion. Other than the Ishin remake the only two games that have come out in the post Nagoshi-era are Infinite Wealth and Gaiden, and while Infinite Wealth has been pretty positively received (I haven't personally played it yet), Gaiden seems... pretty sub-par as an entry in this series?
At best you could say it's premature to make a judgement with only 2 really new games, but asserting it's actually great right now with 1 good entry (on the RPG side) and one that's less than stellar is pretty weird.
It's not the silly stuff. It's the fact that the latest games have locked basic features behind a paywall and injected woke crap in them for no reason at all.
Just finished watching the video, amazing one as always.
It's the perfect moment to discuss about this. Especially since Yakuza/Like A Dragon is growing a lot now worldwide.
I've watched several videos and read articles regarding Nagoshi and Amusement Vision aka RGG Studio. I'll always be grateful to Nagoshi for being the creator of Yakuza/LaD. And I'm very amazed at the current work of the team at RGG under Yokoyama's leadership.
I can understand how some people feel differently about Like A Dragon now, since one of the core aspects has changed. (the brawler combat) And as we're moving on, the yakuza underworld will probably fade away. (Just like Yakuza irl)
But to think that Nagoshi's departure is the key to this change, I don't think this is the case. As you said, he was around when Yakuza 7 launched. And Lost Judgement, the sequel and direct consequence of Tojo and Omi dissolution, hinted at how RGG could shift the focus away from the Yakuza. I firmly believe that even if he was still on board, the games would've drifted away from Yakuza being central.
Creating Yakuza/LaD games was always a team effort. Some games gave birth to icons who are still working in the studio nowadays. (Horii, Aoki, Ito, etc.) And from what I've experienced with the recent entries, the philosophy is still here. It just evolves to fit current matters.
RGG still didn't renounce on Kiryu hitting women. They still don't want to make the player start a street fight. They still rely on the idea of maps not being overwhelmingly big, in order to ease the immersion. Yakuza/LaD is still here, it just evolves just as it always did.
Let's not forget that theses games never just had the themes of underworld conflicts and drama. It was always also about adapting to current times, and life in general. Which is why there is some goofiness, and light hearted moments.
Yeah, Personally though, being relatively new to the series, i can't say i enjoyed infinite wealth in particular. I really think it suffers from a lot of writing issues that had me yelling "Why would kiryu do that!?!" as he told his real name to a man at the end of the game, ignoring the daidoji aren't suddenly inactive or something. it had me baffled that a slim lady was blocking hits from a beast like saejima with ease, and oh god. the legendary trio in general. Especially after the majima spinoff announcement.. i thought it was a way to give them a fittingly depressing ending to a story written in blood, but them just... showing up again at the end?
All of the yakuza games had writing issues. i still don't understand 6 much. but i find myself coming back to the stories of kiwami 1,2 and 0. i can speak on them for hours. how each detail seemed so deliberate to me. Perhaps it just lost it's magic, i thought. but then i picked up judgement and replayed kiwami, and i had a blast! i 100%ed 7 too.
Infinite wealth just felt like it went a few paces back while trying to be too up to date. while forgetting the precedent of the old characters they cling to while acting like They'll die next week. i honestly think i liked 7 because it hardly even brought the old gang into it. it was fresh. IW was like Leftovers. Judgment was fresh and it also slickly included regular appearances from the tojo clan while maintaining a new identity. but I'd rather a kiwami 3 and judgment 3 than anything. localizations would also be nice. ichi just rubs off as insufferable occasionally to me and with new kiryu in the mix it's like putting oreos into mountan dew. even the villans of IW felt cheap and somewhat motiveless. koriwa was a menace who killed at first for money and later to satisfy a need. the old palekana dude flooded all of Hawaii with a trained army and ichi kinda just shrugged it off. the jingwon took kiryu an entire gsme to deal with.
i never associated the game with a face other than kiryu's and majima's.. usually together.. usually being gay..
but i feel like the old blood should mostly exist in spinnoffs now while lad tries to become something new.
I think Nagoshi is the "father" of many of the characters, so to speak. But I also think that the writing team has had time to learn a lot about how the characters "should" behave. Although this is RGG so at least once a game someone does something totally out of character and out of left field. Nagoshi leaving didn't change that. He may have started the franchise and done some awesome stuff as part of the team, but there have been awesome moments after his departure as well.
@@Chamomileable Not really I didn't like a single game after he left except for Ishin which was a remake! I honestly think the franchise lost it's spark after Nagoshi left! It just feels generic, woke and liberal now!
@@fateslegacy yakuza has always been woke from the start lmao don't kid yourself
That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
This reminds me of how some people think Tetsuya Nomura is the brain behind all of Kingdom Hearts, or other projects that he works on. Sure, he's one of the central figures but he doesn't do everything, the franchise could continue even without him.
Kingdom Hearts excluding Disney was his baby, he designed and created those characters, while Final Fantasy, you could say it’s not his, but he designed a lot of characters there too since FFVI
@@MaxBraver555 Yeah, I know Nomura is responsible for the creation of a lot of things in KH. But he doesn't do everything. You can see in the KH3 credits that there's a Co-Director, a Scenario and Cutscene director, and many designers and artists for levels, maps and the game in general.
I recently read that they're putting new people in charge of Missing Link, in order to bring new ideas to the table.
Once a franchise has gone this long, it's not bad if the original creator steps down as long as there are competent people to take the mantle.
@@PokemonaMoni That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
@@BackstabbyBoy Sometimes having new and different ideas isn't bad. Like, I wish Sakurai would quit Smash and leave it to others to bring new ideas to the game. I don't mind if you disagree, to each their own
I think the only thing that is "ruining" Yakuza games is their legacy. Kiryu has been around almost without character development since after Yakuza 3 and we are running out of foils for him. Characters that died return for no good reason because we gotta have our fanservice. We are at 11 games that share a narrative. At this point, we either say goodbye to some beloved characters.
My concern is that we just get on the wrong track. The trash pirates in infinite wealth were silly, but it is the kind of sidestory silliness that we get to expect - but the next game seems to be centered around golden age of piracy stuff in the modern area and starring Majima - who may always be a delight, but whose story also is already told.
Yakuza is Yakuza if you have melodrama, silliness and a gritty crime story next to each other.
I think part of the issue is that characters like Kiryu and Majima are too popular. A lot of fans still do not accept Ichiban as the new protagonist. So to compensate, RGG added Kiryu back to the roster in Infinite Wealth as an attempt to appease older fans. Unless Kiryu and Majima’s popularity dries up, that is not likely to change anytime soon.
Kiryu’s last game was meant to be Yakuza 3. They brought him back in 4 likely because RGG did not have the resources to make a fourth playable character at the time. Seriously, cut out Kiryu’s section of the story, aside from the interactions with Daigo in the end, nothing in the plot changes.
They put Kiryu in Dead Souls and Yakuza 5 for what was likely similar reasons. Although by this point, Kiryu had cemented himself as the main face of the franchise. It is going to be a lot harder to sell a new protagonist now.
Celebrating ten years of franchise history, of course Kiryu is going to be one of the main protagonists in 0. Especially considering that game serves as a prequel to Yakuza 1. Now this is where the problem really started. A good majority of the fanbase, likely two thirds of the fans we have today, got into the series with 0. Which gives less than favorable expectations to the characters of Kiryu and Majima. (One protagonist had a one and done story because the writers underestimated his potential amongst fans, and the other RGG was practically done with by that point.)
The Song of Life was promoted as the last Kiryu game. Although that was a lie. The fact was that RGG was tired of kiryu and wanted to tell other kinds of stories for a while. Yes, we got Kiwami 2 but that was a remake of an already existing game. The only real additions being a new set of sub stories and mini games.
The main theme of the Ichiban games is breaking the cycle and forging a new path ahead. They aren’t like the previous games in the series and that is the point. Times are changing. The yakuza are all but gone at this point, and the type of old school yakuza characters like Kiryu are seen as nothing more than romanticized archetypes. I like Kiryu as a character, but man, they did not give him much development outside of 0,1, and maybe 3.
Althoug his inclusion is a little forced, I do like Kiryu’s journey in Infinite Wealth. It was a literal take on the whole, “evolve or die” ideology. The point is to show that some old dogs can learn new tricks and that it is never too late to take back control over your life. Kiryu was not dying so that the story could be more dramatic, Kiryu was dying because he had lost his ambition for life. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it’s pretty much depression cancer.
The fact is, for better or worse, RGG will continue to use charscters like Kiryu and Majima to some capacity because they are just too popular. It was very heavily implied that Yokoyama only included Majima, Saejima, and Daigo in the last couple of games because Big Papa SEGA said that was what fans wanted.
But why is Majima doing pirate stuff? Well he can’t go back to being a yakuza and Infinite Wealth shows that he cannot live as a civilian in Japanese society. RGG is also against having a game where the protagonist is an active member of the yakuza for the entire duration. So a 1990’s yakuza 0 sequel is also off the table. The only option left for a Majima focused game, which is only being made because Majima fans won’t stop clamoring for more Mad Dog content, is to give him a new start somewhere else.
I think RGG's direction would've probably changed even if Nagoshi didn't leave, but I personally don't mind either approach as both have their benefits.
Same with people bemoaning NOMURA. Like people think he's a crazy mad man, when the actual mad man in the team is Nojima.
@@Kaimax61 yeap both are horrible at storytelling. Nomura should never be allowed to write words. Art? That man is demigod level!
Like all creative people they have a mad side to them but i understand your point.
nomura sold me fentanyl
Who? What?
@@mjc0961 tetsuya nomura, a character designer known for his work at square enix games and his work at DIRECTING kingdom hearts, not writing it, as kazushige nojima does the writing for kh
although nomura might have SOME influence behind the crazy shit behind the plot of kh but that's neither here nor there
perfect topic. there are dozens of creative, hardworking people at rgg studio who helped make the franchise what it is, and as you pointed out, we don't even know many of their names. i never subscribed to "great man" readings of anything, including projects like these. changes in any project are almost always a collective effort/decision unless it's a structured such that only one person has absolute authority over absolutely everything
He may learned the mistakes with Yu Suzuki's Shenmue sales, but his vision of the franchise never fully explained or elaborated that well.
@@Mohammed1000real It was explained well enough to me, His main point was to make a fun game which also had good life lessons and just shows how to be proper, Reliable strong man In general he said it himself I think achieved more then enough., It was aimed for JP audience too so you got no right to complain about his vison for the franchise.
I wonder if it would have helped any if SEGA had left "Gaiden" in the English title for Pirate Yakuza. I see a lot of people acting like they think this is 9, like this is what the entire series is now. No, it's just one spin-off game starring the franchise's wackiest dude in a befittingly wacky adventure. So let loose, have fun with it, eventually 9 will come out and be a more grounded crime drama.
Why full price then?
This is fated to happen every time "Original creator leaves the studio" or "series become a bit more mainstream", no matter how good the newer games are. There is definitely a change between newer and older games, but i don't see the older better than the newer ones and vice versa, every single game has something to offer, which is impressive for a 20 year old franchise with yearly releases.
For the "the plot are sillier and less serious now" argument, sure that's true, but i would argue that it works sometimes in their favour. I have much less trouble accepting a giant squid boss fight in Infinite Wealth, a game that has a more outlandish plot, compared to the more "serious crime drama" Yakuza 2 with secret korean agents, the golden castle and whatever the fuck happens in the last chapter. Plus, if the story works, it doesn't matter how silly or serious it is. Y7 has some silly moments compared to a more "grounded" Y0, but i still love both stories and consider them the best of the franchise. And i have no doubt that, despite the silly premise, Pirate Yakuza will still have some moments of heartfelt seriousness that will let Majima's character shine
I didn't even notice before, that Yakuza 0 is Yokoyama's work.
(Forgot to insert Nishiki at 12:17)
Look, I know its not even a Nagoshi problem. Its an identity problem. Its a complex discussion. The old Yakuza feels different than the modern stuff. And yeah I am a person who feels like the Yakuza series was influenced by Nagoshi's vision. Look, I'm happy for its success. I loved pretty much every game excluding Dead Souls. But there's a legit identity issue. I miss the hard boiled stuff. I loved the Yakuza 2 Kiryu stab scene. If I'm wrong to attribute that to Nagoshi, that's fine.
This series used to be hardboiled. While I had theorized it to be Nagoshi, I'm not ashamed to admit I am wrong to attribute it to Nagoshi. I feel like we've sort of turned a legit crime drama into a parody series (and by that I mean the main story. Yes, the substories are different. Yes the substories are enjoyable).
I am excited for the Pirate Yakuza, which is a massive feat in of itself. People, they don't make series like the Yakuza series anymore. If Yakuza ever ends, we will NEVER get a series as good as this again. That is why this sort of "hardboiled" soul means a lot to me.
This series is magical to me. I listen to "Born to be Wild" almost daily and when I'm not listening to that, I'm listening to Bubble or With Vengeance or End or Denial. I want this series to continue for a long time while keeping its identity.
That being said, I am more than man enough to admit I was overzealous over on X. If you found my behavior on that website intolerable Leon, then I apologize. Things just get lit on fire when I speak passionately.
Sometimes there is such a thing as *bringing the heat* too much. If I came across as uncivil Leon, you have my apologies. Have a good day.
I totally agree
@@OneManCast Yeah, that's true. I enjoyed 7, but I could tell that it was starting to take the series in a new direction that I wasn't too excited about. I haven't played 8 yet, but from what I've heard it leans even more into comedy with downgraded writing to boot. It's a shame, but we've already gotten so many legendary games that I don't really mind if the series as we knew it ends.
I remember the two first games were co-written by Seishu Hase, a veteran in novels about organized crime in Japan.
Personally, i think it's just that Ichiban doesn't need to have the same serious story like Kiryu. Kiryu and his friends stories were rooted in sadness and a neverending circle of Kiryu being drawn back to the Tojo clan every time they faced a menace. The Man Who Erased His Name had a pretty hardboiled story like the previous entries, having very strong moments and narratives, it's just that Ichiban is a different person. Ichiban is no longer tied to the Yakuza in any way, he wants to be his own person, he doesn't live in the past and has moved on, Kiryu on the other hand can't move on he's forced to always pay his dues.
The reason you think it's not "hardboiled" anymore it's because of the gameplay, the gameplay makes it feel too light and without impact.
I can see where you're coming from, and I agree. The hard boiled aspect can't be the same anymore even if they do serious cutscenes with Ichiban. I suppose the last time that even happened was in Gaiden, but the older games did it way better than that
12:19 I think what he said is fine, he knew what his audience was and appealed to that and it worked. When you try to appeal to everyone you appeal to no one. It would be in RGGs best interest to appeal to young adult/adult males considering this is an M Rated game btw.
Also just because you've garnered a new audience doesn't mean you pander to that audience, there's a reason that new audience gravitated towards you.
If anything, I haven't seen a franchise with such intricate and convoluted stories and characters well defined by their personalities, maintain the same level of quality after it's creator left. I remember worrying for the franchise when Nagoshi left, nowadays I don't even think about it and most of the time forget he's not working there anymore. That's not a shot at Nagoshi, it's just to say how cohesive that team is and how they all seem to understand what this franchise is and who those characters are.
It was the same thing with me, about the time the game was released, i'm from Brasil, couldn't understand the language, i was 15 and was studying english at the time, but still, i fell in love with the game.
Strangely this phenomenon also happens to the Ace Attorney series, but I think they have proved their fans they could do just well with AAI2
That game is 13 years old and there's 4 games after it (excluding the Layton crossover). I can see why people prefer Takumi because his AA stories are written with future games in mind. DD and SOJ are written as standalone adventures so newcomers can jump in more easily.
@@randomduck8679 true the no spoiler policy of Capcom is dumb and actually damages the AA series
@@shingkung3974 I disagree. I actually HATE the first Great Ace Attorney because it clearly isn't a complete story. In fact, it actively hurt the Ace Attorney series far more than the "no spoiler" rule. Case in point, GAA2 was the lowest selling game in the series because the fans were annoyed that GAA1 didn't resolve any of its plot points. And GAA2's financial failure is why there hasn't been a new Ace Attorney game since.
I like both approaches. The current modern one, and the original one. Serial Crime Drama works. A funny Japanese Crime Drama Game works for me too. At the end of the day, it's all about the fun and games, the minigames, and beating people up. And I am fine with that.
they forgot about beating people up part lately
@@drPiotrNapierala me when they literally just announced a majima beat em up game
@@drPiotrNapierala O f off. Turn base is based and that fine for me.
@@drPiotrNapierala Turn based is good too. Let them change stuff up now and then instead of just wanting the same thing again and again.
@@JoaoVictor-rg5ix go play final fantasy then
I feel like even while Nagoshi was around, the series had already started undergoing a change. If he hadn't left, the most change I could imagine was the tiny Judgment cameos in Gaiden and IW and vice versa wouldn't have happened. I still think we would've ended up with Pirate Yakuza regardless, wouldn't have been that much different.
It's always the same people with a person cult when things are attributed to just a single person when a whole team of people worked on a project.
Whether it is movie or game directors, etc.
@@EnvoyOfRot A director has a lot of influence on a product and is the most important person on a creative project. Look at Rareware, for example. After the Microsoft buyout, all the top brass left and they went from producing masterpieces to shovelware.
because they are the ones who have the final word in every choice the development team made, since the initaila phases to the final product. Directors are the bosses who guide the employees trough their own personal visions, and most of the cases they were founders and even created the first games that were important for a game or movie success.
Is like a building, the architect is the principal responsible, even if there were many man working, but they are only fulfilling the architect vision and design. Same thing in classical music conducting, every conductor leaves his own impression of the music work they are conducting, and that's wht they have the credit same as the architect, but not all the workers behind the work.
@@marcraiderI hope you realize that in Japan, when making video games, it's not the director that has the higher authority to tweak and see what's in the game, more often than not it's the Producer role
@@darrylaz3570 I legitimately wonder if that's why Yakuza 0 hit as hard as it did. It was produced by a man named Mitsuhiro Shimano, which is a guy we never talk about.
@@devilleon7 A Shimano scheming behind the scenes both in-game and in real life, of course, why did I not see this coming lol🤣
It's also important to note that even Nagoshi and Yokoyama likely don't have as much of a say in DLC practices as people think they do.
These kinds of business decisions are usually passed down by the publisher rather than being directly made by the studio itself, which in turn usually happens because of investors breathing down their necks. It's more of an unfortunate trend with the gaming industry as a whole that RGG happens to be affected by, rather than evidence of them suddenly turning greedy.
I just wish they toned down the 'crazy' elements a bit and went back to telling captivating crime dramas set in various Japanese cities.
My dream Yakuza would be set in Tokyo and let us explore various locales, like Shibuya, Ikebukuro, Shinbashi and such. Maybe there would even be vehicles and whatnot. But instead we got pirates...
Honestly I think Ichibans games contrast the seriousness and silliness even better than Kiryus games, particularly Yakuza: Like a Dragon. The Pirate game is still great because it fully embodies the sillier side of Yakuza, a great contrast to the more emotional and serious Like a Dragon Gaiden
You do know that pirates are just a Gaiden spinoff, right? Like a Dragon 9 is still coming at some point and you'll get your more grounded crime drama. But that's going to take a lot longer to arrive, so until then, unclench and enjoy ridiculous pirate times with Goro Majima
I guess they just want to reuse Hawaii map a little bit longer. But heck yeah Shibuya and Ikebukuro would be nice, maybe if they could reuse and expand some of the cities from Y5 too, wonder how different 2020s look for them compares to 2012.
you know yakuza 7 still had some of the best drama writing in modern yakuza right? it seems like a lot of people have forgotten that it's still about never being too late to find fun or meaning in life even if ur as old as ichiban.
also the pirate game is still a gaiden spinoff with the craziest yakuza character of COURSE it's gonna be more comedy leaning. we had a zombie shooter spinoff which is arguably even more crazy. lets just enjoy a non-serious yakuza once in a while.
To be fair Kiryu's Gaiden is pretty serious and in character for him. Majima who has been portrayed as crazy loose cannon (even before 0's explaination) should have a rather crazy gameplay that befits his character, no? I'm sure if they made Akiyama's Gaiden, it would probably more suave and noir, which fits his character. I get that, tonally, this one is leaning heavily towards the comedic side, but aside from the fact that its how Majima usually is (he was depressed in Y3 for being too serious), they might still surprise us with the story. I mean, I didn't expect so much tragedy going into 0.
This sort of "cult of personality" for game franchise directors is very common and it's ridiculously immature and shows how people on the internet like pretending they're experts of everything and anything. It's the same with Metal Gear and Kojima, with how people will credit Kojima as if he was the only one who ever worked on Metal Gear, hunched on his back alone in a dark attic in front of a bright computer screen when in reality it was teams of hundreds of dedicated game designers, engineers, and technicians who brought his ideas to life. Even the ideas that are credited to him aren't his alone, and often he needed someone to make sure his ideas were actually feasible and not entirely out of bounds. People need to stop treating AAA games by companies as massive as SEGA as if they're a one-man project and wise up to the reality that they're always a team effort.
0:40 Peak online behaivor, fearing something that has not happend in 20 years, "BUT WHAT IF IT HAPPENS????"
I saw someone Doomposting on twitter (And i think it had a blue checkmark too) about that article of other western celebrities staring in the next games and this person was like: "B-But what if that's the start? and they have an american protagonist, set in a american city and it removes all the japanese aspect from it" and i was like ?????
i was just looking for a video so i could watch it while i ate and i saw you just uploaded, now i'm FEASTING
I came into the series from buying Yakuza Kiwami on a whim, after an hour I was hooked and by the end I'd fallen in love with the game. I've since got 100% completion in every game released on Xbox (apart from Y8 which I'm currently working on) The series has become one of my favourites of all time and is very special to me and I will continue to support the studio regardless of who is at the helm which isn't even an issue for me personally. Thank you devilleon7 for all your content both yakuza and non yakuza. Your a great guy and pleasure to watch!! ⭐
Pretty much the same story for me, but with Yakuza 1 on PS2 - I randomly bought Yakuza 1 way back in 2006 or 2007 as Christmas gift to myself. I'd fallen in love with the game, and the series after that.
Same with the Kiwami. It got me hooked especially during a really bad time where I needed something to distract me.
I agree that we should enjoy the games for what they are, but also criticize the glaring issues that have presented themselves (ex: The NG+ situations for 7, Gaiden and Infinite Wealth).
Nagoshi is a cool guy but like can we get Kiryu in Tekken 8 already?
Kiryu will never be in a fighting game because he doesn't hit women.
@@PitH0und Yet him and Majima in Project X Zone 2 were you have them hit, shoot, stab, slash and blow up female characters like Juri from Street Fighter was fine somehow
@@PitH0und Also he hit Haruka
Didn't he fight a woman in yaKuza kiwami?
@@ADOnTheController-c3j Not unless you count Goromi.
انت أفضل واحد يتكلم عن ياكوزا
الله الله على الكلام الحلو, عزيز و غالي والله
He is from bahrain@@xillerrz7328
والله صادق مافي أفضل منه
Wait u r a muslim mashallah i never knew
OMG YOU'RE ARAB?!?! HABIBI!
So happy to see another Yakuza fan! Subscribed!
People forget that Masayoshi Yokoyama was the one involved in storytelling from the beginning. Even when Nagoshi was the general director, there were weird gimmicks such as the giant squid of infinite wealth and shark fights, and people talk as if Yokoyama was the one who started all the weird things after Nagoshi left.
Yokoyama has just moved from story writer to general manager and continues to maintain the studio as Nagoshi originally did.
And the RPG battle people hate wasn't led by Yokoyama. lol Nagoshi took the initiative.
Why do fans of this series have distorted memories?
I feel like the conversation itself doesn't work. When they say the series is in decline, I just laugh.
Sales of the series were already dropping before Nagoshi left the company. As a result, they felt they needed to take a more world-wide approach. That's what changed the Y7 to a turn-based approach and added Hawaii, a place outside of Japan, as a new spot.
It's just their arrogant illusion that the series is in decline and the series has grown much more objectively and increased sales compared to the past.
See how many pessimists exist in this video comment. Even if the series progresses further and further, they will constantly try to blame the game and only oppose any changes.
@@dragonistlym29b Sales does not equate to quality, man. “Decline” does not just mean “sales.”
Man some of this comments are really reallyyy agressive , chill out people.
Not ruined, just went into a different direction. Wherever this series will go, I will still support this series wholeheartedly.
There is definitely change on creative decisions and you can't deny it. Grim aura of the originals are long lost. And it is understandable that some miss it.
the twitter discourse surrounding this is insane
the series is in good hands, and people not understanding why the silliness happens when it does are the problem
I've seen people complain about reuse of assets which also made me laugh because Yokoyama is correct about all this, reusing assets means more time spent on developing the game rather than putting all this work into creating something for five seconds of screentime.
one for sure: achievements become much easier post Nagoshi. After he releases new game, it will be more clear how his absence affect yakuza series.
"The only ones who RUINED Yakuza are Daigo and Watase"
- Shishido, Agent of the Daidoji
I’d love to see Shishido angrily ranting to other Daidoji agents about the state of the Yakuza in the 2020s lmfao
This also makes me want to see his reaction to Ebina’s actions throughout LAD 8
Not me refreshing daily to see you hit 100k🙌
People saying the story’s have gotten worse seem to forget that yakuza 4’s story shits the bed half way through and Yakuza 5 had no idea how to end so they threw a dart to see who the final boss would be.
Still both got a better story line then a like a dragon 7 & 8 imo and yakuza 4 was my very first yakuza game and the reason I started to play all the games on my ps3
@@gloriempaka9474 You clearly have a crap taste to say that 4 and 5 have better storyline than 7 or 8. Not surprised by the biased nostalgic goggles when you literally you claimed to start with 4. lmao
@@zeroskaterz92 hey my taste is not yo taste everybody got their opinion but yes I've started with 4 in 2010 and it's the reason I bought a ps3 because I used to be a xbox 360 fangirl for a while but then I was bored on UA-cam and watched a Japanese commercial about Yakuza 4 and I got hooked since so I bought Yakuza 1,2 & 3 later and for 1&2 i bought a old ps2 but anyway yes I dont think 7&8 in terms of story and gameplay are that good and even tho I love ichiban as a person the whole dragon quest thing is just silly to me and not in a good way
@@gloriempaka9474 The whole Dragon Quest thing is literally brought up in the early portion of the game. What are you on about? Such a terrible excuse. Kinda obvious that you didn't even play the game.
A lot of yapping but couldn't even elaborate. You just proved my point that you're biased on the nostalgic goggles to think that 4 is better. lol
yakuza 4 and 5 having a better story than lad 8 i can understand but better story than lad 7!?🤔😅
Ironically I like the games after Nagoshi left almost universally more (there are exceptions but not a ton). But they never felt like they “changed”. Every game in the franchise feels like a natural step forward for the most part (5 maybe being the only exception in some ways considering they just threw out most of the Yakuza 4 story)
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think every game in the franchise has something really admirable
1 has great pacing
2 has the best feeling combat of the early games
3 develops Kiryu as a character better than any other game
4 has some of the most fun character introductions and new gameplay ideas
5 has borderline too much to do
0 is has the most approachable aesthetic
6 is WILD with a completely new moveset and engine and has every piece of dialogue voice acted
7 has hands down the best story in my opinion
And 8 feels so good to play I genuinely think it might be one of the best feeling RPGs out there.
They all have problems but they all have ridiculous highs. For all the problems I have with Yakuza 5 punching a giant bear fucking ruled.
Sorry for the long comment, it’s just the idea that one person is responsible for all of that is ridiculous to me.
Yakuza 0’s quality writing is due to Yokoyama penning his arguable best so far AND having notable co-writers, particularly Tsuyoshi Furuta, who would go on to be the primary writer of the Judgment games while still co-writing mainline entries.
Speaking of the Judgment series, Nagoshi entirely spearheaded both Judgment and Lost Judgment as not just as a writer but specifically their general director, also becoming personal friends with Takuya Kimura (actor/likeness of Yagami & this info can be found in interviews/promos online with Nagoshi)
Both Judgments are arguably the most he’s been involved with this franchise, at least for his final years within Sega. So with that in mind, I’m surprised this video didn’t touch upon that regarding the effects of Nagoshi’s influence and departure.
Like I hate to say it, but his departure (due to Sega wanting him in a less creative/more executive role) is likely a reason for why Judgment 3 appears to be taking so long (excluding other obvious factors like Kimura’s busy schedule) as Nagoshi was the confirmed visionary and creative mastermind behind the creation of the Judgment spin-offs.
Tangentially related, but Daisuke Sato is another BIG RGG employee who left with Nagoshi yet sadly fans don’t seem to discuss as much what effects his departure have or haven’t had on these recent entries.
Yeah this is my main issue with this video, I've been a Yakuza fan since 2018 never have I seen someone saying "Nagoshi alone made yakuza good" like this video is discussing a problem that isnt there to begin with.
what they (me included) say that yakuza has become different when Nagoshi left I mean exactly what you said, the man had an impact that no one can deny. not saying the games are now complete dogshit, its still yakuza but naturally not the same and its okay if someone just prefers older games. now try to say that to "*yakuza fans*" and count down to 3 before they hit u with the "but yakuza was always silly you stupid tourist lmao have you ever played the games🤓🤓"
Also, I genuinely dont understand the yokoyama dick riding. like the man wrote some shitty plots that nagoshi straight up told him "yea man your idea is just shit". yokoyama wanted kiryu to have dementia in 3 and then start "exploring himself" or smth like that not quite sure.
so when you compare yokoyama as a lead writer in 8 and Furuta as a lead writer in JE you can see the huge difference. yokoyama is better as a side writer imo, idk what people are on about really. cant wait for judgement 3 to drop with yokoyama's writing lol.
@@KhaledSham The lead writer of 8 was Takeuchi. As the studio head, Yokoyamas is less involved in that aspect these days. Also, Furuta hasn't been poached by Nagoshi Studio yet so I would still expect him to be the main screenplay writer for a hypothetical Judgment 3.
I'm more worried about the employees he took with him when he formed his own studio than just the man himself.
I personally am not a fan of the RPG combat system and genuinely do want it to go back to just being a beat 'em up, but I didn't really contribute that to Nagoshi leaving.
It seems like RGGS is very aware of the demand for both genres so something like the upcoming Gaiden will be beat 'em up as a break from LAD8, I think it's cool that they try to deliver both when possible.
Me too, I'm glad to see someone else still agrees. I'm not trying to hate on 7 and 8 though, it's just my preference to have action gameplay in yakuza, and I love multiple other turn based games
@@devilleon7 The only problem I really have with this is that I want the main entries to be fully beat 'em up, not RPG. It doesn't fit Ichiban perhaps, but seeing Kiryu in the RPG format really rubbed me the wrong way. I'd really like for them to either give us a new protag with the beat 'em up formula OR to use the old characters in main entry games with said style. (Seijima, Majima, Akiyama, etc). The upcoming Majima game looks fun, but I kinda think it's gonna be shorter than I want it to.
It's legitimately insane that I even have to say this but thank you two for keeping a cool head while we have different opinions
@@devilleon7 It's definitely how we should all be when discussing opinions, even if it's a strong opinion, it doesn't have to be personal or disingenuous
Love that you did this video Leon, there's so many people out there who just talk like they have all the facts when they just.. don't lol, and that's not even mentioning how they talk for Nagoshi like they know him
I initially found it weird that the game was turning into an RPG as I've gotten used to the usual beat-em-up format, but I then I played IW out and found that it was great fun in a different yet fresh way. The whole "Nagoshi leaving caused the end of Yakuza" to me seems like a guise for what the underlying message is in the subconscious of those that type it out, their fear of change.
Just because something is different, doesn't mean its bad. We as human beings need to change to adapt to things around us or we get left behind, its not just a company thing, its human nature and it sucks that some are unable to see that
yo under 1 minute lets gooo
Memories are fleeting,we makes them as we see fit how we feel at the moment. Sometimes the past seem better but back then we were wrought with worries of uncertain future. It's a good thing that Yakuza community have good influencer like Devileon to help us reflect the past to the present. Thank you for the video.
I'm a new fan who eventually plans to get into the series and I find the idea that the series is trash without Nagoshi lame because it's in pretty good hands and he was around when the stuff like rubber bullets and the messy plot of Yakuza 5 were a thing. Heck he was also around when the first movie based on the first game came out. He wasn't this one man army who made the games by himself, he had help and the contributions of so many talented people who most fans don't even know exist
Yokoyama has been there ever since the beginning and I have a lot of respect for him, I love the new direction the series is heading with Ichiban and no doubt that's the work of a team of people who really know what they're doing. Yes, a team, there are still plenty of og devs at RGG Studio aside from Yokoyama. I believe the series is in good hands.
In fact, I think this debate is endless. Even if the game gets better with much better quality, the naysayers who think the series is ruined will not stop blaming Yokoyama and the current developers and will swear at everything that comes out.
Just looking at the comments in this video, there seem to be a lot of people distorting facts with futile logic, but I'm surprised that there are people who think it's no big deal that infinite wealth has sold 1 million copies. The series has almost never achieved more than 1 million copies in a single piece since the release of Y1. The best-selling works are JUDGMENT and like a dragon, and the other works may have sold less than 1 million copies in a single sale alone. Under these circumstances, the fact that infinite wealth achieved more than 1 million sales in a week after its release is a fact that cannot be ignored and is a big achievement in the series. Opponents are ignoring this sales because they don't like infinite wealth.
Also, their outrageous response to the pirate majima game. Even though it's a traditional action game that many users respected, rather than a turn-based battle, the game even accuses it of being terrible, even though the demo version hasn't been released yet. They try to recklessly judge the game in a way that it's already the worst.
I gave up trying to convince them. What logic should I use to convince people who already have only one decision in their head?
I don't really care who's there and who left
So long as they keep making bangers with incredible characters and heartfelt stories, I'm following them wherever (Peakuza Kiwami 3 and Judge Eyes 3 when??)
@@DragonBane299 It's over if they remake Yakuza 3
@@renotv3860If I remember right Yokohama said it will come eventually in a RGG Summit a few months ago. It was the one with Chitose's VA
Well, it was long time since they made game with characteristics you mentioned above. You are not talking about Yakuza 8, are you?..
@@Watchman-kk3oe Stop crying weirdo. Let people enjoy what they want.
Ah, but did you know that there are days and there are nights?
whenever a new writer, or project lead takes over in any piece of media, people will always hate the new guy and praise the old guy, regardless of what they may have felt before. Doctor Who jumps from showrunner to showrunner every couple of years, it's a tradition for the show to always be moving forward, always changing and evolving, but every time there's a new showrunner, people will always hate them and praise the one that came immediately before, regardless of how much they may have hated them while they were still around. This happens a lot, in entertainment, politics, everything.
12:11 I think the result of targeting a very specific demographic is that they singularly focused on what would make the game appealing and discarded what won't be, but it just turns out that what they thought only the adult Japanese men like has a wider appear that cuts across demographics.
I'm of the idea that they should maintain a focused perspective, not necessarily narrow it down, keep what makes the series appealing while trying to experiment. Don't try to appeal to as many people as possible intentionally, because personally it would come off as an unfocused product.
I hate it when people attribute something's success to just one person and act like that person is akin to some divine being who can do no wrong, then when that person steps away from the project it's suddenly "changed" or "took a turn for the worse". It feels incredibly disrespectful to not only the team but that person, because do you really think they just left that project without a second thought, leaving it in the hands of people with completely different visions to theirs and what made the franchise successful in the first place?
It's like they're trying to cope with the fact that that person isn't apart of the team anymore which is a weird behaviour to have since they more than likely have never met said person before, let alone met them
I love these kind of videos, you should totally keep making them since I think your doing great at explaining everything
I was looking forward to this particular Yakuza topic.
i speak for everyone when i say they need to make a shinada alien spinoff
Could you please add videos like this on a playlist? I wanna catch up on all external Yakuza news and stuff, consider it!
I really like the point of this video. RGG games are definitely different than what they used to be, this is undebatable. But to blame one person on the series being 'ruined' is ridiculous.
I do think it'd be cool if LAD9 goes for an approach less bombastic than 7&8, but more because I like the different vibes each game gives and I wanna give Kasuga something new and unique to do. It'd also be really effective to have right after 8 Gaiden
"The Yakuza series became really silly in it's last entries, it's not a serious crime drama anymore!". I'm more of a recent fan, but i've played through all of the mainline games in the series, and wasn't it always like this? For example, Yakuza 0 had it's fair share of funny moments, even in it's main storyline. I feel like this series(like a lot of other japanese games and anime) is really great at striking this balance between "serious" and "silly" moments.
I’m also a fairly new fan, but I think there’s a huge difference between “gritty crime drama with over the top violence that becomes almost comical and also you fight a tiger and at some point and you can play with you cars if you want on the side” and “Arrrr Majima be a Tricorn wearing Pirate with an 17th century ship now”
I don’t even have a problem with Ichiban’s games beyond the stories being kind of a mess, but for Yakuza Pirate in particular, it’s not accurate to say “the series has always been like this.” We all agree the series has been great at balancing the serious and the less serious, this pirate shtick is blatantly silly.
I’m sure it’ll be fun, but let’s at least be honest here
@@colfdralegendIdk, fighting a huge bear after a dramatic moment, a golden castle inside a castle and fight two full grown tigers bare handed, is much more surreal than having Pirates in modern century as somekind of secret underworld shenanigans that Majima strumbled on.
@@yohschannel5226 my point is the more out of this world stuff was usually not the main premise of the game.
And really, I personally just feel that an “underground pirate society” is the most out of this world idea in the series yet, and it’s hard for me to believe it’s not mostly in Majima’s head, or a bs story he’s telling to explain where he disappeared to (which I would enjoy).
Also, there’s the virtual tourism angle. *This is may be a less important point and maybe just a me thing though,* I just feel like saying it.
Pirates feels like a very strange choice for Hawaii to me, it’s a place that has barely had any connection to pirates as we know them, if at all. It feels like they though, they’re by the sea… with ships… like pirates! I don’t know if I’d go so far as to call it disrespectful, but it just feels off to me
@@SeriousLeo5 well, 0 is the sixth mainline entry, so it counts as a modern title, so much that it heavily influenced all the games after it...
@@colfdralegend I think it's kinda of a reach to say that and not just "They wanted to reuse the Honolulu city map" like they did with Yokohama in LJ with Real time combat.
And again, i think Underground pirate society sounds cool asf to NOT do just because it sounds absurd
Ngl as much as i appreciate nagoshi and all of his contributions, and hope his next game does wonders, the yakuza/lad franchise is more than just him, and yokoyama seems fine manning the helm rn, so if people actually have this notion on nagoshi they need to chill, lol
People think that Yokoyama is a new hire at RGG but forgot that he's been around since the very first game. And also has a prolific bio when it comes to the games he's developed and had a part in making but that won't stop some fans from blaming him for some of the recent things the games have been doing.
@@TojoMember760Yeah he’s no new hire, but at the same time people can change over 20 years, Yokoyama did say some stupid stuff after 8’s release too, about video games causing violence bs. I’m pretty sure a lot of those folks haven’t even gotten into a fight but somehow they cause real violence.
@@MadDogSolo if that really is the case then that's the only thing about him that I don't agree with a lot but everything else I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing
I feel like they didn’t have bothered watching the ending credits that showed many people who worked on the games like Japan and USA
is true that we have to thank Nagoshi for creating Yakuza in the first place but all this games where created thanks to the pastion and effort of lots of people and aye I'm probably no the most qualifed fan to say this since I started with zero and only played what is available on modern consoles but what made me fall in love with this franchise is still there that "RGG vibe" still goes hard and true not all games are gonna be perfect but the fact that you never know that to expect from this studio is what makes it so special to me at least
I flat out didn't even finish Y8 and I have no plans to. It's just so inferior to everything that came before it and I feel the series is in decline.
Sounds like a you problem guy
5:25 And people say Kiryu never kills people 😞
The way people treat Nagoshi reminds me a lot of Kojima, it's so strange the way people act like they singlehandedly wrote the code or something. I've seen people get angry that kojima wasn't involved with the new silent hill shit ffs😭
just like some strange parasocial cult type thing
Kojima is the visionary behind his games. Without him, the games would be different. May be better, may be worse, but fans are interested in Kojima's vision specifically.
More or less same with Nagoshi, though he is much less of a visionary.
@@Lele-nr3fq Your statement is quite literally the point @MaybeOrangeJuice made. It's one thing to not be interested with the new Silent Hill, especially with Konami executives acting like the way they do, but getting angry over Silent Hill not having Kojima involved is just plain bizarre. I hate Konami as much as everyone else, but Kojima is the sole producer that made me feel sorry for any publisher ever. I don't know how much money Kojima spent, but looking at the hour long MGS 4 ending scene and ultra long MGS 5 intro sequence, I do know that he is wasting a ton of resources.
The fact that his first project as the sole decision maker is a FedEx Simulator with tons of actor cameos further convinced me that he simply does not know how to make a sustainable product and need someone to rein his spending in. I still play MGS and it's one of my most favorite game ever, but seeing people praise Kojima to the point of cult-like worship is way over the top.
@@HendyVelarius I was mostly referring to the point 'people act like they singlehandedly wrote the code' in the original comment. Kojima was irreplaceable for the projects he done in the past, even if he obviously done mistakes as a creator, and we shouldn't undermine his role.
Idk about why people are getting angry, I don't really follow the news on this. Probably disappointment channeled in a wrong way, because those fans specifically want to see 'a Hideo Kojima game', with all his quirks and 'wasted resources', as you put this. They may feel wronged by that fact that 'a Kojima game' does not belong to Kojima anymore.
FWIW Kojima himself has a bit of a history of being somewhat of a control freak so he tends to take up more spaces on the production side of things than the average dev would so a bit more understandable why that happens. And even then he'll be the first to admit that he does oftentimes need people (Namely Shuyo Murata and Yoji Shinkawa) to tell him "Dude, you're going off the rails."
Hideo Kojima is different. His games are directed, produced, designed and writren by him. English not my 1st language so sorry if any mistakes. Also Nagoshi and Hideo are friends.
Uh... leon... what are you talking about? The series has always been 100% super duper serious... Like... i'm sure you can conjure the power to create doppelgangers of yourself...
I think we can lets all agree that who ever decided to put new games plus as paid content deserves a tiger drop
It had to have been a corpo from sega of japan
Sounds like a deicision SEGA would make
@@Stefano.C oh yeah .
On the matter of Nagoshi saying that he was making games for Japanese men I think that the tends to be a disconnect with some people when the matter of intended audience is brought up. You can make something for an intended audience and still draw in a wider audience than expected. The best example of this would be the brony boom in the 2010. Just because someone isn’t part of a set group doesn’t mean that it won’t draw in people who aren’t of that group. Let’s say I started an authentic Chinese restaurant. Family style service, 15 types of dim sum, spicy food that actually makes people sweat, whatever. This might be founded on the idea of making authentic food for Chinese people to enjoy outside of their own home but it will also draw people who also enjoy authentic Chinese food with its hard to pronounce name and unusual ingredients. Now let’s say that the chef changes and wants to bring in a “wider audience” he stops using some of the more uncommon ingredients, he starts cooking things in a more American style, he tones down the spices for people with sensitive tongues. By the end of it the authentic restaurant it’s just PF Chang’s under a different name and all the people that were there for authenticity leave and it becomes just another option in a area that has 4 other Chinese restaurants with the exact same menu. By making games with a specific group in mind he is able specialize in a way that makes it stand out. It’s the same reason that souls games stand above the crowd of souls like and that the game that is considered the best of them, Bloodborn, is the most narrow and specialized of them all.
I think this video will push you to 100K subs, and it's very well-deserved.
Getting close to 100k! Whats the big plan?🎉
17:01 Yokoyama is so based for this. Many people say that asset re-use is lazy. But imo, NOT making use of assets you already have available is lazy. Why waste time remaking the same stuff, when you can use that effort to make a game that's better than the previous one?
I came from the other side. I'm not "They suck because of him leaving...", I researched why they rather do suck and found out that way that he left.
You can definitely feel his absence from Super Monkey Ball, but Yakuza is truly in good hands.
New Game Plus issues aside, Infinite Wealth is one of the best games in the series.
5:44 Nagoshi would be surprised 😂😂😂
There are people from the most random locations/ age that enjoy these games !
I don't see how anything changed after Nagoshi left. The games have pretty much felt the same. One could argue the tone has slowly veered away from being a full on Yakuza story though I guess that has more to do with the yakuza's diminishing presence in reality.
The writing on the wall compared to Y0-Y6-JE-Y7-LJ
I do know someone pointed out that the newer stuff is taking cues from K-Drama’s instead of old Yakuza flicks, but that’s only scratching the surface.
i spent the last 3 yrs playing every yakuza game fell in love with series a video that got me into it was from super eyepatch wolf
Nagoshi left and now we’re finally getting a new Majima game. Are those 2 facts related? No clue. But I couldn’t be happier :D
Don't forget that Kazama was "revived" in Yakuza 3 and it was under Nagoshi as well.
I fell in love with the series after playing Kiwami 1 and 2 and Yakuza 0 and judging by the positive reception of each of the post-Nagashino games the series is in good hands
I know someone who's been disillusioned with Yakuza lately. They say that due to Yakuza 0's success (which kickstarted the whole "funni haha" moments) and worldwide releases, the series became a circus, ultimately disrespecting Nagoshi's actual vision in the process. They believe these are the reasons why it'll creatively kill the franchise as we speak...
Even tho: Toshihiro Nagoshi hasn't been truly involved in the franchise since Yakuza 3-4, and the series has always been a clownfest. (Rubber Bullets, Secret Koreans, Takayuki Yagami's Pro Skater-- *and Nagoshi was directly involved in this one* ). Yakuza: Like A Dragon simply embraces the circus.
Knowing Nagoshi's new studios wants to replicate the success of RGG, I expect a similar pattern to also happen in the next...2-6 installments.
The obsession with "auteurs" in the industry needs to get dialled back by a lot. People like Kojima, Druckmann, Nagoshi, and Henning undoubtedly have all played huge roles in bringing about all these franchises that we have come to know and love. However, unless you are a solo indie dev, making videogames is a GROUP EFFORT.
Just because there's one or two people who seem to be the most prominent members of the team does not mean they were left inside of a cave and they made the entire product from scratch all alone, Iron Man style.
If anyone would pay a little more attention during the credits, there are hundreds upon hundreds of people credited with helping the completion of the product and plenty more who were indirectly involved. Maybe a friend of one of the devs gave him a suggestion about something he'd like to see in the game and then they brought it up to the team who then proceeded to add it into the game because that's how creating things work.
Nothing is made in a limbo. There's no single person sitting at the top of the chain who has a completely original idea, not inspired by anything, who then makes an entire game out of thin air.
Hideo Kojima is different. His games are directed, produced, designed and writren by him. English not my 1st language so sorry if any mistakes.
That's like saying" Oh you don't need Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino to make a Steven Spielberg/Quentin Tarantino movie, you just need the film crew that worked on their previous movies". STOP COPING
I think Nagoshi partly departed because of Sega and the direction modern Yakuza was going. I prefer the serious crime drama with SOME goofy moments. Rather than the entirety of the game just being goofy with SOME serious moments.
The real reason Nagoshi left is because he didn't want to be promoted to CEO of Sega, which would likely mean he would have much less time and involvement with making games, there's a bunch of interviews on it.
Idk man 7, Gaiden and IW is pretty damn serious
Great video man! Been watching your videos since 2018
Nagoshi never got his way with the Yakuza games, He literally was the one saying Kareoke wouldn't work.
I love every Yakuza games before the crappy turn base, coincide with Nagoshi leaving now it makes sense. I grew up with Y1 and Y2 on the PS2.Hell Judgement/Lost Judgement is the soul of the game not some persona crap. Huge disappointment when I saw the pirate Majima, it could've been a standalone Judgement style to see how cool Majima is in combat with skills involved...
Yeah ignoring the fact that Nagoshi was there with the decision of the "Crappy turn base" sure...
pirate Majima is a brawler game wdym 😭😭
You're the type of person that is being criticized
apparently there's "no skills involved" in whipping cutlasses around like boomerangs and doing thug style attacks while they boomerang around
also just ignoring the mad dog style completely i guess
the fact this has 6 likes is insane to me i can respect not liking the genre shift, but i don't really understand why you have a problem with this the combat looks like it could top LJ and the story's pretty unique for RGG and even if it's not a super interesting story i'm sure it'll still be a fun story
@@floppa_9530 what I mean is not cookie pirate style but yakuza style Majima when he's older, more like the latest Kiryu's Like a Dragon Gaiden
After Nagoshi left, we finally got Sayama Kaoru back. So to me the series is better than ever.
I guess I mentioned some inappropiate stuff so it got autodeleted by UA-cam. So I'm paraphrasing what I commented.
I agree with Yokoyama about reusing the asset. My friends from college/university started their game studio, created their own games. From time to time, they were tasked to make educational games (government contract stuff) and they have to reuse asset from games to games as that's the most efficient way to make games and able to ship the game within time. I mean it's the same "if it works, don't touch it".
About Hawaii, Japanese people loves Hawaii as American love freedom, guns, hamburger and oil. It's on par with Okinawa, despite Okinawa is their own land.
About the violence (YT probably auto deleted this part), I watched a clip from a channel that analyze about film/tv series stuff and he mentioned about violence and other "adult stuff" (basically games genre that rockstar made and kinda popular during their prime). Some "big shot" director/writer from film industry said that "if you want to put those stuff in the media, it has to have significant or profound meaning to the plot. If you just put it in just for the sake of it, it'll just ruin the whole thing".
So what Nagoshi worried is probably if there's time that he made characters that probably "too one-dimensional", basically just violence because of .. he just is. I think baby Iwami is probably closest to that one. I'm not sure when that interview is conducted but if it's after Y6 then it's understandable.
I think what people worried is "will RGG studio go downhill like other studios when their significant founder(s) or director(s) left the company?". Because we saw so plenty of that these days, like studios that rhyme with "forksteaky" or the name of Yakuza 8 that made those infamous multiplayer FPS.
Ps. I guess I'm probably wrong in the last paragraph, considering comments within an hour or two prior to this one lol