Can This $450 Machine Upgrade Save Me 100K Dollars?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2022
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$450 Well Spent! For the small percentage of you who may be looking for this part, you can find it here: jamisonequipment.com/machine/s...
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For the small percentage of you who may own a CV616 and may want to install this kit, you can find it here: jamisonequipment.com/machine/sunnen-dwell-control-cv616
I am from Indonesian Broo 😁🙏
Good job son.. I remember those early days, you have a few years under your belt and understand the basics, love to work on them engines and now you start to really hone your skills.. Dang what fun these years are.. you get excited when you can do a slightly complicated run but beat your self up badly when you make a mistake doing something pop can do with out even really thinking about.. don't forget to take moments to step back and really appreciate what you are doing, & learning and especially cherish the time you spend with the ole man.. these are more precious days then you know right now.. and you are building memories that later in life will sustain you and bring you much joy. take time now to let it all in.. Because later in life you will wish you had.. at 70 now I know what I am talking about.. Carry on !
This is the best comment I’ve ever read. I’m going to spend more time in the shop with my dad and brother.
@@jmanieri3651 That is a decision you will never regret.. though there might be fights and disagreement that is just family.. you will still look back when you are older to really appreciate these times..
Thanks for leaving in the bloopers! Nice to know the pros mess up just like I do. LOL!!! Good, sensible mod for your hone. Buy it new, wear it out, make it do, then do without. You'll get that top-tier CNC if you keep at it.
The device You installed is / was known ( was described as to me..) as a "Nascar Bar". When I was a student at S.A.M, the old CK 10 I learned to hone on had one installed a very long time ago on it, as the machine originally belonged to a Winston Cup team back in the late 70's / early 80's.
I've used machines without it since then, and intensely dislike not having the ability to dwell the honing head at any position. I would gladly trade off any perceived belt life loss for the bar's ability to aid the machinist's desire for truly accurate bores!
It's always been my experience that the initial "ouch" of the price tag hurts but when you factor in money made or time saved you will see it pays off to have efficient equipment.
But you know best of what will work for your shop. Anyone can say a cnc is way better cuz it is, but at the cost of the before mentioned things.....
Absolutely. In this instance the job would be done quicker with a cnc machine and with automatic operation he could be doing another job elsewhere at the same time
I agreed to put an engine together once that was a .125" over BB Chev.....A 482. The block was done by a local shop but had been laying around for years. It was honed oversize, not bored, in a CK-10 and was tapered so bad the pistons would not go to the bottom of the bores !! What a mess I got involved in.........I got it fixed as good as possible by the same shop but someone else was running the machines. It was a drag race engine.......lasted maybe 150 runs before it cracked a cylinder.....Never should have been done in the first place as .125" over 454's was never a good idea especially without sonic testing the block first !!! The CK-10 we had in the shop I worked at for over 10 years did have the dwell feature and always worked and never failed. We bored blocks with a FN boring bar......I bored them for years....That bar sat right on the block deck after I milled it square in an Storm Vulcan 85-B .......Always left about .005" to hone....
Most common issue I see with large overbores is you always get into the block webbing. If you fail to relieve said webbing, you'll be dwelling for days to square up the bottom of the cylinders, and by doing that you actually hone the area where the top of the stones would be during that dwell oversize, so the cylinders aren't all that true any more.
It's funny what some people will attempt without sonic testing the block.
One guide shoe uses 1/4" pih which comes loose from banging the hone head on the main webs. When that happens the hone will drive you crazy with taper, the looser they get the worse it will be.
Excellent job young man, keep up the great work!
Interesting, somebody actually mass produced what used to be referred to as a "Nascar bar". (allowing stopping the stroke at different points in the cylinder) That machine has a bunch of use considering the wear on the tensioning pulleys.
I'm using a CK-10, any of these machines can do excellent work, it all comes back to the operator. Cool video.
Everyone of us watching this when the drill caught the pulley and spun it, we smiled and said yep, done that before 😂😂😂
I enjoy these videos, especially seeing how clean you keep your equipment and shop. You are an awesome young man.
Nice addition to the honing machine. I think you could easily replace the solenoid that burns out with an air cylinder and solenoid valve. Adding this to the kit you installed could give you push button control like it used to have.
That’s exactly what I have planned down the road if I like it enough 😬
It's not what you have,
It's what you make from it.
Well done!
you are very knowledgeable for such a young person, I guess dad taught you a lot!
Mine too!
Thanks for letting us know about this dwell kit. Looks like a great idea.
Found out your guys channel by accident and I love it! Im a machinist myself, been working for 13 years now, but I do production machining for different kinda parts from bar materials 😄 its nice and relaxing watching engine repair and machining, that certainly is a diff task to perform! Love the narration, and the overall feeling of this channel, keep the good work up :D
Great video on the upgrade, and taking the time to explain the installation!
Good video, thanks.
If you’re sticking with stones, go to the C30 series and you’ll see much straighter bores, and no crazy shoe wear. Don’t use those top guides either, they wear all the consumables crooked as the stones wear unevenly.
I’ve tooled up with the p28 series diamonds and set up properly, you rarely dwell at all, honing an entire block. Sometimes it’s not at all. My digital load meter is rock solid.
The need to dwell is telling you that you need to adjust your overstroke and/or stroke length.
The short stones become a bit unstable with the honing head is drawn out of the bore to over stroke them, that’s what leads to the tops getting too big. What is seen as a cure, is the cause.
Going to the Ck3030 holders and P28 diamonds was the best move I did. Much longer oil life, added finish range too. You can do full diamond or just use stones for the last. .0006”.
Thanks for the video on this upgrade. I’d always thought about doing it, but it’s not needed on mine now.
This feature probably wasn’t designed into the machine to start with since every time you pull the lever to disengage the up and down feed you get some belt slip. You’re essentially using the belts as a clutch which will cause them to break prematurely. I bet the newer machines have a proper clutch setup to improve the reliability of the dwell function. Not knocking the modification, I’m sure it will pay dividends, just giving my thoughts as a design engineer.
I agree.
The new machines have two motors which can be independently controlled, one for the stroking and one for the spindle.
Excellent analysis of the design intent from Sunnen!
Belt damage will be minimal. Virtually all ride on mowers and a huge amount of farm machinery use belt tension as a type of clutch.
Its exactly how old self propelled mowers used to engage the drive wheels. The belt "transmission" on my neighbors broke, and I ended up fixing it for her. It was exactly this mechanism
Belt clutching is as common as apple pie in the design world. Nothing wrong with it. It will not cause the belt to break. I am a mechanical engineer and have been building machines since I was a kid. Nothing wrong with belt clutches. Belts are super inexpensive and easy to replace. Not sure what your experience is, but belt clutches are simple and an elegant design solution. ---Doozer
I remember learning on a CK-10 and when we traded for a new CV-616 with the line-hone attachment, it was the end all-be all. We did bore up to .030 with it, but used a Kwik-Way boring fixture for anything bigger.
Cool video, I actually began honing on an SV10 and heard about this one only through stories. I’m now using a Sunnen SV30 which is fully programable. They don’t call it a CNC since it’s not G-Code but I believe that’s more what you’re referring to. I use the SV10 now for odds and ends and use the SV30 for more production based blocks.
Really awesome to see the machine in action deff wasn't kidding though them machine's even the old ones are bad ass and expensive
We had a CK-10 and never had an issue with the dwell. Our Sunnen rep said he had to pass a test of honing a block to .030" over without boring in some semi ridiculous time in order to beat a boring bar. He showed us the technique on a couple of cylinders and he was pretty fast. And this was before they had the diamond stones. Those were a game changer and I'm sure you could beat a boring bar no problem with those. I remember cranking the block up and down a little and dwelling as needed to get perfect cylinders when using a torque plate. It always took the just the right touch. But I never had to go through the dance you've come up with to replace the dwell. Seems like you had it down pretty good.
Bro could you do a video on cylinder wall finish and what the difference of the hones is?
Sometimes just being able to do something you couldnt do before is worth it....doesnt matter th cost its just such a valuable result....hopefully thats what this is for you.
Love the dwell control on the CV616! I think you will love it too.
Nice keep it going!!🔥🔥🔥
Well done as usual!!!
Looked pretty straight forward install 👌🏻 👍 😀. I really enjoy your rebuilds. 😁😉
Well done! A new machine must be quite a bundle, and for a little work you can get the same end result, albeit with some manual control. I hope being on UA-cam has given you more work in the shop. I still await an update on the new shop though.
You guys a awesome, thanks for the how to on all your videos.
Thank you I enjoyed that
Your investment choice was spot on.
That’s an improvement. Simple - but definitely effective.
When I done my engine reconditioning / machinist apprenticeship the shop I was at had a sunnen ck-10 and it was a great hone until I used the brand new sv-15 at the University that had a full bore profile readout and everything, after using that I just never felt the same about using the old faithful ck-10 😩 no thanks to a workplace accident I'm out of engine reconditioning but hopefully soon I will be able to start doing cylinder heads from home as a hobby I love doing it but my body just can't keep up with high production work.
I love the variety on this channel. I would love to see more on how the engine parts are set up in each machine. I find it amazing that you could actually hone a cylinder out to the next oversize by just honing. That must wear stones pretty fast?
Used a 616 for my entire career before leaving the state I was in. I think that is a great modification.
I was thinking about this comment the other day. You could dwell where ever you wanted by not not pulling the engagement leaver all the way out. The same way you talked about Finance to remove material from the bottom. But I don't remember for sure. It's has been 9 years was probably the last time I've used a cv616
Simple and effective. I think that the type of automation you’re talking about could be managed by an Arduino or certainly a Raspberry Pi. If the electrical components aren’t your thing I’m sure there are other UA-camrs who would be interested in collaborating.
That looks like a great mod!
I keep the biggest pair of vise grips on a magnet hanging next to my drill press...that has a floor dead man switch. Anything thats going to fly that isnt in the actual vise...gets the grips. Easy and fast and saved my ass several times. One hand on the clamped grips really stops that nasty rotating stuck part..
Good job Broo 😁🙏
Had the same thing happen to our ck10 was wondering if that deal worked well now I know ty
They sell a kit for the CK10 as well!
jamisonequipment.com/machine/sunnen-dwell-control-ck10
Nice set up
I quite enjoy these videos because they give me a look at how engines are rebuilt and some of the tricks of the trade
That was very interesting
My Adder-backer machine is on back order it seems. Love the videos.
They’re hard to come by loo
I'm buying the kit from Jamison for my CK10!
Fantastic education on the in’s and outs of HONNIng I didn’t catch the moment but what was the difference between the upper and lower part of the cylinder, numeric difference
Looking good👍
Thanks for the help 👌🏻 even if it did take me nearly a year to install this after you and a few others recommended it 🥲
@@JAMSIONLINE No prob my man🍻. I know all about time flying by when trying to find some to work on equipment lol. I have a milling machine, a lathe and a bandsaw here I've never used yet. Had the lathe 2 years now, the band saw 3 and the milling machine almost for 5! They all work aswell. I Just wanted to clean them up and do some maintenence plus fix up a few noticable issues while giving thwm a fresh coat of paint. So a year does not seem to long to me haha.
It’s amazing what you can do with that fancy new screwdriver. I wonder what the sponsors will think of that ? 😂
Nice little upgrade! Do you guys ever work on V Twin Harley stuff?
that’s a good $450 investment for that cylinder hone and i’m sure it will pay for itself after a few jobs
4:36 Weeee!
There's a lot of deflection in the actuator rod, I wonder if a guide halfway down would improve the feel and control.
Looks like it is worth the investment
4:30 You should fix it, welders are pretty useful
Love the channel but im really wondering y u guys who own a machine shop didn't make a couple of brackets and handle urself instead of paying $450 for about $15 worth of metal. Lol.
Just got hurt today by a piece of sheet metal spinning in the drill press 😂
Whenever I use a drill press I just imagine real quick in my mind just how bad things can get. So I usually end up securing my work piece. Or I just let my homeboy Larry do it.
A load-related delay circuit would be easy to design... the fact that you already have a load-sensing system in place means you are half way there... just a thought... 🤔
BTW... There didn't seem to be much to that kit you installed for the (in my opinion) high price tag charged. 🙄
😎👍☘🍺
Would you ever sleeve a evo8 4g63 ?
Nice but i don‘t Unterstand why this is so expensive 😩 is it available und Germany ?
Nice work by the way, i Love this Channel.
so with this method how perpendicular are the bores to the crank centerline???
Will you be adding more videos to this playlist??
I need to, just haven’t gotten around to it!
I your opinion what is the most reliable best built engine?
That breaker panel needs three feet of clearance in front of it.
That's slick!
Question though, is it reasonable to hone the bore straight or is there typically enough upper cylinder wear to require boring to next oversize?
We always bore first unless you’re only going .010” or less.
It’s doable in the hone only but boring first is the preferred method.
Regarding you not fitting it perfectly, did you fall into that trap of because you think something won't work you don't put enough effort in, then when you find out it actually does you wish you'd have gone all out?
Funny how that works.
I have a lot of engines and accessories
hi
just get a sunnen sv-15 and it does it all itself😏, would probably up production time a little too
Yep, and in the range of $70k-$100k with all the tooling!
@@JAMSIONLINE it's just money right?😅, as fast as you guys have grown in the next 10 years you guys are gonna be the go to machine shop in the country if not worldwide
If you order a sv-15 now the ship date is end of October.
Mate, can you explain the load Meter? What exactly It measure? Current Absorption? Whats the unit for It?
This is my understanding of it but i don't run one of these machines. I think its basically just an Ammeter (Amp-meter) that measures the current draw of the motor, similar to the spindle load meter on cnc machines. Whatever the max current draw is just gets scaled to 0-100 for readability i.e. when the needle goes higher its drawing more electrical current because it has to work harder because that part of the bore is tighter. The actual number isn't as important as the relative change over the lenght of the bore, so long as it reads the same (or very close) the bore isn't tapered.
Did you leave the solenoid off of it after installing the kit. Having similar problem with ours a considering getting the kit, after finding out how much the solenoid was.
All of the original stuff is still intact on our machine. It could easily be reverted to original.
@@JAMSIONLINE thank you
Does that kit work with the sunnen ck10 . My dwell has been broken for years
They make a different kit for CK10!
@Jim's Automotive Machine Shop, Inc. perfect, I found it the DCK-10 attachment it's 425. It's gonna be well worth it thank you for sharing this information with us keep up the good work guys
How would someone learn how to do automotive machine work?
notification squad!🔥🔥🔥
You came close to renaming this video to...HOW A 4 SECOND DECISION COST ME A COUPLE OF DIDGITS...
Hahaha nah I knew it was coming 🤪
you can make this in 50 bugs only
One word of caution with that super organized tool box. It may look nice, yes that is true. But it will do bad things to your brain and your personality. It will train you to worry about things that are not perfect and in exact order. It will make you afraid of entropy and chaos. It will start making you go to extra ordinary extremes to establish patterns and sequences and order. While this might sound good at first, the downfall is you will also begin to not tolerate any disorder and incompleteness. Your intolerance will grow into being obsessed with preserving this fragile world you have created to feed your brain. Don't fall into this trap. It will effect your personality and your personal relations. It is most healthy to be able to accept natural disorder and chaos, and only bring enough order to your personal world to work effectively and efficiently. It looks like you have started down the road of hyper organization. When I saw that toolbox, a big red flag popped up in my mind. Beware of the implications of the path you are on. All one brand and all in their place is dangerous to your bank account too. It is a manufactured need. You have been sold an idea, not just those tools. Be smart and know the difference, for it is a dangerous idea. ----Doozer
Why not just flip the engine block upside down so dwelling at the bottom isn’t necessary?
Then you would be dwelling at the top lol. Plus I'm pretty sure that machine isn't set up to hone a block upside down, but I might be wrong there.
The hone won't go past the main bearing webs
Should have just copied it its really pretty simple. And saved 450$
Saved $450, but spent $600 in labor time to do it.
I agree with your point, but I have too many other projects to spend my time reinventing the wheel.
@@JAMSIONLINE its always AFTER you have done the job and found that the shortcuts and experience would be MUCH easier the SECOND time. I am always jealous of the people that see the easy way the FIRST time. Your channel is great to watch.