Used to be that everyone would buy at least 4 controllers, now most people buy two at most. Couch multiplayer sold controllers, modern game companies dont seem to understand that.
@@Unvoicedliveyup. If it weren't for corporate greed, we would be using lightbulbs that could last years without burning out. But then again how would the lightbulb companies make money? After all, money is the most important thing to these people, far surpassing that of human welfare.
The world has known for ages ..... just like they outdate software on your old phone just like you used to update your Windows....if you only ever had to buy one of anything the world wouldn't make money ....just like my xbox one series s has got 10 times slower since I bought it and it's been cleaned out ... its almost now as slow as my one s last gen
@@warfin1379 Or maybe newer controllers are made with better, more accurate parts. Which also means they break easier and quicker. I still have my N64 controllers from 1999. Theyre still in good condition. Theyre still shit compared to today's controllers.
@@LaZarusXtnct no the magnetic joysticks are mor accurate the n64 ones may not be but they make newer ones plus thats what dead zones are for the in sccuracy in the joystick
Publicly traded companies are legally obligated to look out for their shareholders - yes. And there are no regulations against execs taking more than their fair share - video games aren't a government agency/a "need" of the people. Obviously. A reminder: stop worshiping corporations, and you'll do fine.
Sega makes only games now that you play on a real console and usually most games made by sega aren’t that great or they would still be making consoles also. Sega = 💩 but a sad face poopie
hey! i actually did a bit of research and the reason companies stick to potentiometers is because they are DIRT CHEAP. they take only 1.25ish to produce which is why not many big companies use hall effect sensors
Hall effect joysticks aren't thst much expensive, why not just charge slightly higher to increase the life upto 2 to 3 years of a controller but that would only benefit the consumer and not manufacturer
And the cost to produce hall effect is $2. And companies is like "We can save $0.75 and sell more because they will be broken in no time, why not?" Two birds in one stone.
yes and no... the Dreamcast had hall effect sensors, that's what he's referring to. however, the Dreamcast didn't sell well - it was better than the PS1 but came out right before the PS2, so Sony completely ate their lunch. after that Sega dropped out of home console hardware for good
@@clebbington I wouldn't really count sales as a reflection of the technology though...it had a lot of pretty damn cool ideas is what I'm getting at...addressing problems we have now back then is what I mean about ahead of its time
@@Cybersomnia yeah that makes sense - it's a cool console and there's a reason people still love it, including myself. i keep a copy of shenmue on display in my kitchen >:--)
Good news, you're old & I'm not. Idk that song. I know the one from Michael Jackson. They don't care they do it for the money. Anything, anything, anything for money. I'd lie to you I'd die for you I'd kill for you. I'd do anything for money.
it was always a big issue. console makers just made it very hard to tell, and games require more precision than they do now. the PS1 dual analog had this issue too but the games weren't very accurate to begin with, and the auto-calibration would just result in the controllers getting more "slop" meaning the deadzone would keep getting bigger until it was unusable.
@@JessicaFEREM no it wasn't, your claims are complete and utter nonsense. In my 30 years of gaming I've never had stick drift on ANY controller until I bought an Xbox series s last year. This has never been an issue in the history of gaming and to claim otherwise makes you a liar.
@@michaelmiguelicutti2829 the controllers haven't changed since the original dualshock. And I have friends that have tons of consoles and play them for thousands of hours and can back me up on this.
The only possible thing that could've changed in 30 years of the analog stick is software. Other than notable exceptions like the N64 and Sega thumbsticks, every other thumbstick is based off of the same technology of a piece of metal running over a resistance strip known as a Potentiometer. Have you ever turned a volume knob that makes scratchy noises after a while? That's the same thing that's happening inside a drifting controller's sticks.
I have hall effect sensors for my driving sim pedals. I chose to buy that set for the brake pedal load cell mainly, instead of using the ones that came with the wheel. Those had potentiometers.
I promise you it didn't do as much damage as you think it did, I take apart my remotes down to the circuits on a regular and for some of those parts unfortunately they require that much force to be removed.
Technically speaking, even hall effect sensors can develop stick drifr via different mechanisms: the springs losing tention, or the wiper's retainer piece losing tention. Granted it is not nearly as vulnerable or ubiquitous as the graphite abrasion based stick drift that haooens on potentiometer based sticks.
between controller lasting for couple of monts vs couple of years there is a major difference, i've bought myself the one with the Hall effect thumbsticks, im gonna test how long it would last, and i suspect quite a bit longer than ~6 months that my previous controllers lasted
Honestly the N64 joystick if replaced with sturdier metal parts, is actually one of the best joysticks to ever exist. The level of precision of their sticks is unmatched. Shame they wear down in a couple weeks of use.
@@Drazil100 it is. It was just amazing. The problem is the plastic parts. Specially the bowl under the stick. It erodes bad. A metallic bowl surely would help a lot.
Surprisingly Interact had a controller with metal parts for the joystick and they have outlasted most 1st party controllers… less accurate out of the box unfortunately
Pretty detailed explanation. Thanks for sharing. It’s unfortunate to think that there’s a high chance they continue using suboptimal parts for the sake of ensuring sales. As long as people keep purchasing them they won’t alter their manufacturing procedure. But bringing awareness as you mentioned is key.
It's more for cutting costs than for increasing sales. Potentiometers are cheaper than dirt, with the entire stick assembly only costing $0.20, while the Hall effect sensors are under patent from Guilkit and cost upwards of $3 per stick. Increasing sales is just a fortunate (for them) byproduct of saving money.
@@GremlinSciences Okay but like, why not put them for the Edge Controllers then? They’re pretty expensive, so shouldn’t we be getting joysticks that will last long too? Hell, they can be optional pieces since you can remove the joysticks directly, and just replace them with the Hall effect ones, doesn’t have to be a whole new controller! But no, I get it, companies never change. It’s all about money in the end to them..
Apparently 3rd party controllers 8bitdo, gullikit, and gamesir selling the $80au controllers for PC and Nintendo are going broke then... because a $250au xbox elite s2 can't afford to include $3au retail price sticks... 🤣
@@fffmpeg on pc? Just get the $80 controllers. On console you likely would need to have a cronus zen to get hall effect sticks to work on a console as I am aware they can make PS controllers work on xbox and the other way around. But the price to do that on console is like $100 for a second hand cronus which is being banned on multiple games now so you would be limited to playing unsupported games or ea games atm. So pointless really and soldering in hall effect sticks doesn't work as they need additional circuitry which needs additional room of which there is none in a controllers body. Unless maybe somehow gulikit allows the circuit board to be placed where the rumble motors are and you remove the motors? Most competitive players who would go to these lengths don't use vibration anyway so would be viable.
As said before several other companies made their own hall effect sensors. Gulikit does have their own patented sensors but there's some way around it. Gamesir released the Khaleid controller most recently. 40 bucks, couple back buttons, hall effect joysticks and an interesting see through shell with RGB strips design, which may or may not be too flashy for some.
We should all file a class action lawsuit against these companies and force them to make better controllers. Microsoft faced a lawsuit for their elite controllers but it was settled out of court. Time to take them to trial!
Actually its a good idea, for the compare case, its like Europe forced iphone to using typed c instead lightning port, so actually we can forced all the consoles brand to using hardware that the same like sega did in their joystick.
I've never had that problem with any of my devices and the ones I've bought used haven't had that problem either. The problem just isn't common enough to justify the added expense when most people aren't using these products for more than a few years before getting rid of them anyways.
I wonder if it could effect people like me who has a ICD they can't be around strong magnets i know things like the Elite series controllers doesn't effect it
I’d pay Sony extra if they made Hall effect stick modules for the Dualsense edge but then they would make less money so they’re never gona do that. What a scam company!
Because they want 💵 I would happily pay more for something that lasts Read the comments sorry for bro I don't play switch feel bad for all of us even, if we fix for free I just got extended warranty so I don't have to pay 90 aud, 94 pulse red 108 3 year warranty, if they even offered to fix free wouldn't there still be a problem? Shouldn't they last?
Its not a question if every Joycon will break, its when. It'll be a fun trivia topic for future console collectors. You just know someone's gonna pay lots of money for a sealed joycon just to see what it was like at launch.
They stopped using the Holofx card because it was unreliable. Magnets demagnetize over time. So instead of getting garbage input after too much use, you’d get no inputs. Worse still, they’d wear down even if not being used. Source: my father whose living has been repairing controllers for 30+ years.
Potentiometer is not the only reason causes drift. In my experience of eliminating drift/dead zones i had to clean potentiometers, put some film between weared sliding parts (stick and this rotating part) and sensor joint. Some lube also helps extend lifetime. These actions helps to reduce dead zone to less then 1%
I haven’t gotten stick drift on any controllers in 25 years, except of course joycons. The pot sticks are just fine 99.9% of the time, but that 0.1% is very vocal.
companies do this on purpose, not only are the potentiometer joysticks cheaper to manufacture. they are also unreliable, which inevitably leads to you buying more of their unreliable controllers. not to mention that there are practically no repair shops that can fix it. yet another way big companies screw you over
Indeed, Sega already solved the problem in the 90s. I don't get it why the "new" controllers make use of potentiometers instead of Hall effect, because using magnets is the less expensive technology, with less and simpler moving parts. I'm glad the companies goin' back to the roots...
Hall effect sensors also drift over time due to the magnetic field changing in the sensor. It happens a lot faster in environments that fluctuate a lot but over time it happens no matter what. Hall effect sensors are definitely better in my opinion but there are ups and downs with both.
yeah but that's over time, and easily correctable with an adjustment screw if you care to, but the more important thing is that it doesn't fail in a few months of heavy gaming, if you're gaming that hard you're more likely to wear out the rubber pads before then, which to me is a reasonable failure mode.
The quick answer to that question is money. Potentiometers are cheaper then hall effect sensors but I do agree with what you're saying, especially that Microsoft should have followed it considering the Xbox was essentially a Dreamcast 2
Same as the lightbulb scam. Almost all businesses make cheap, effective products that last long enough for you to like it until it breaks and you "need" a new one.
There are 2 reasons this isn't used in controllers. They use ferromagnet and are expensive. Ferromagnets are fragile and can be damaged when dropped. Definitely more of the first reason than the second, but the "pro" controllers should definitely be using them.
Oh yeah, its to much expensive for a console would cost's around 500$, yeah, *too much expensive* But now explain ev bikes, the same use the same magnets
the magnets aren't that fragile, and they can be Embedded in plastic which would completely prevent them from being damaged unless the controller itself is extremely damaged. I'm pretty sure regular hall effect sticks wouldn't be damaged by any drop which doesn't also crack the shell.
Stick shift is the bane of my console gaming existence 🙄. I've gone through so many controllers because of it, I tolerate it for a bit but toss the damn thing once it gets real bad. Luckily I've gotten use to cheap wired controllers by now so when it does happen, it doesn't hurt as much as much as it did when my 60$ controllers went down for the count 💀
two reasons: cheaper to manufacture, and it breaking will most likely result in you buying another controller. I haven't played on my Xbox in a long time, so I don't even know if they have warranty for these kinds of things, but I'm guessing if you replace the joysticks, it will void your warranty.
fun fact, though: traditional pots are fine if you occasionally get in there and clean them. The "drift" is because of a combination of both the springy, mechanical nature of the components wearing out over time (think like the N64 stick pieces but with a lot less slop), so the spring in the assembly can't force the other bits back to neutral/center... AND the plastic-on-plastic pieces develop lash; the post inside the actual piece your thumb touches, the tab that rotates the X and Y pots, they cam-out over time simply from use... I'm an old sega fan, I was well acquainted with the hall sensors in the Saturn 3d pad and the dreamcast pad, and I honestly kind of hated them... trying to gently transition from their neutral position into any direction resulted in a lot of very, albeit brief, twitchy stuttering movement/input as the three or two other directions you WEREN'T trying to influence had to figure out why the magnetic field suddenly changed at all... PLUS, both sticks could turn in-place about 5 or 10 degrees, which added to the subtle uncertainty of fine movement. I know i'm in the minority of regularly opening and maintaining my controllers, but aside from my original N64 and launch-model PS2 pads, all the rest of my analog controllers still have a perfectly predictable and manageable neutral dead-zone. Gamecube probably taught me the most about analog nuance after countless hours spent on Melee and F-Zero GX. The takeaway is no physical device will function perfectly forever. Those new analog stick assemblies with the hall-sensor swap-in components will still eventually develop drift as the physical moving components wear over time.
Small nuance to note: Magnetic devices, even hall effect sensors, will not last forever. Magnets do slowly lose their 'charge' as it were. But it's going to take such a long time that yes, those sensors will last much much longer than anything mechanical in nature. The rest of the joystick will probably break down sooner.
@@BenutzernameXY Doesn't matter. If the claim is forever, then the claim is wrong. Granted, something like 40 years is going to feel like it to a person, I will give you that. But it's not forever. Just call it what it is. A superior product that lasts a long time and will have negligable changes in performance when used properly.
I find it crazy most people just throw the controller away instead of trying to repair it themselves. If its going into the trash at least take it apart and get an idea
Same thought here, I repair controllers in my family and the only thing I won't replace is the motherboard (they cost 40€ or above for originals), a new controller is 60€ here. The battery is the most expensive thing that I'll replace and it usually comes with an upgrade (1000mAh to 1500 or 2000mAh for ps4 controllers) and they cost 20€ for 2 x 1500mAh batteries and 20€ for 1 x 2000mAh.
I find it crazy people just buy cars instead of build them. On second thought, maybe they just buy them because they don’t know enough about cars to build one…but that would mean they don’t know everything about everything…
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad Actually two very different things no? Repairing and building? Many people can replace a tire, or battery of a car. And that would be more in line of what we are talking about here. There are also countless tutorials for common problems, good ones, that'll give you the guidance you need to repair a controller (or car). And I wouldn't try and repair a car (especially when it's a more advanced issue) without a professional besides me, cause well it's a lot more expensive if you make a mistake. On a controller, you might break the tabs, no problem, it has screws that hold it together. Or you might tear a ribbon, no problem just get a new ribbon (very cheap). If you need to desolder or solder a part, then maybe get someone besides you that is more knowledgable, but even that is not that difficult when you compare it to many car repairs. Personally every time there is a repair needed, car, controller, television, etc... and I don't know how to do that then I ask someone (a professional) if they can help. I've learned a ton that way. In my opinion many people are too lazy to do that and decide it's too much of a hassle and just buy everything new.
Neodymium magnets are expensive, also the ps2 controllers as a sensor to detect stick drift and correct it. You wouldn’t even need the console, the controller itself can tell when there are inputs that don’t make sense and will automatically adjust its output. Damn things are tough as nails too. I had one that the entire front plastic part of where the left stick is got worn out, broke, fell into the controller and was like that for years before I took it apart to clean. Works just fine compared to a new out the box controller, albeit not as stiff in the sticks and triggers.
the part you showed is the sweeper, it can get stuff gunked in it but its usually the graphite from the track pads that are on the actual potentiometers which are the green part you opened, usually theres some missing from the track when drift happens, sometimes its the spring in the stick that breaks too
1. Cost 2. Design 3. Patents Also. The metal piece you show does not fail. It's the carbon contact on the other side that wears down, inside the potentiometer housing welded to the controller. High quality magnets that don't weaken over time, are actually relatively new. Cheap ones are also rather new. The design is also something that can require *per controller* calibrations, which again, we're difficult to scale. And finally the Hall Effect sticks used in the Dream cast are patented, and I believe SEGA lost a lawsuit over it. That is likely a pending lawsuit for whoever does it as an OEM if they don't license it.
It's interesting because we have companies that make things like knives for chefs and scissors for hairstylists that cost thousands of dollars and come with lifetime warranty for sharpening or replacing for free, they even give you a perfect temporary one while they have your shears (in the case of hairstylists). You can even still sell the shitty ones, but you'll effectively remove competition.
The little piece of metal is not the part that causes stick drift it's actually the blueish green plastic piece, it as the metallic surface that gets scratched on the other side
Yeah it fixes drift but the magnets itself introduce more issues like losing their magnetic field over time making them less accurate. Especially holding other magnets nearby can cause tons of issues.
The loss of accuracy overtime is still takes more time to be more noticeable than it is on potentiometer, its only accelerated when you're in an area with constant heavy magnetism in which case, why? I have their controller, and yes nearby magnets can influence the readings, but with a fridge magnet I have to make it extremely close just to see rhe effect in action, you meed to have a pretty strong magnet nearby which begs the question why would you even have that strong of a magnet nearby electronics to begin with?
I think it's because they want you to keep buying new controllers. Some of my PS4 controllers got stick drift over time. But my PS5 controller hasn't yet, probably because I haven't had it for long. And as for my PS3 controller, never had any problems with it.
Our PS3 controllers have been perfect too. One survived being thrown down concrete steps by my mom, the other one stayed together but a piece of the handle chipped off. (Unfortunately that one wasn't saveable but I'm impressed the whole thing didn't fall apart)
I agree with you. kinda like how the corporations that started selling lightbulbs reduced live efficiency of them to half for more money. I now know why people told me “they don’t make things like they use to” haha
The potentiometer is what allows you to slightly move the joystick and walk for example instead of run, and gives fine control. The part you talk about that Sega has couldn’t do that, it only detected movement in binary. Meaning it was either you moved or didn’t, with no degrees of movement. But from what I understand that was on the logic of the board and modern day solutions can indeed do it with magnets instead of potentiometers but it’s not the same part you’re referencing with the sega controller. I agree though with the above comment it breaks down to planned obsolescence.
Major appliances do the same thing. The parts they use break down over time so you have no choice but to purchase a new one. My grandparents had the same refrigerator for 40 years with no issues. Ours lasted about 12 years before I couldn’t replace parts any longer.
I feel like partly because of planned obsolescence, which makes sense business wise and also potentiometers are more accurate, hall effects are good but none are as accurate as potentiometer, maybe if we close the gap and potentially make it even better
What’s wierd is Nintendo offers to fix stick drift on joycons for free including shipping so either they’re just trying to keep the illusion up or enough people don’t know about it to keep it afloat without worrying about fixing half of the the joycons that are in circulation, if not more
Disrespectful to their customers! Videos & reels like this need to be heavily addressed at product launches & these companies need to be put on the spot publicly when asked on what they will do about it!
fun fact, some early models of ps3 controllers and the original psvita used hall effect joystick, both the controller and psvita got revisions later in their life spam that switched to potentiometers
Nintendo actually intentionally used a joystick that's even worse than the regular Xbox and PlayStation ones, that's why they have such an issue with joycon drift They use graphite sensors that wear down into dust over time that just completely destroys the joystick and they have a rubber dome over the top instead of a plastic one cause it allows dust and dead skin to get in
In certain games the Hall effect controllers (on xbox) have a hard time registering movement properly. Example: in fo76 I was over encumbered but usually my character still walks pretty fast but when using any Hall effect controller my character barely moves compared to a regular potentiometer. This has only ever happened in fallout and plugging in a normal Xbox controller immediately fixes it
Imagine making devices that lasted forever, never needed repair or replacement and can be used but newer devices of the future....... One immortal controller
"if the controller last too long we won't sell enough of them"
Exactly what happened with light bulb companies
Used to be that everyone would buy at least 4 controllers, now most people buy two at most. Couch multiplayer sold controllers, modern game companies dont seem to understand that.
I'd be great business, I constantly lose my controllers! 😅
@@Unvoicedliveyup. If it weren't for corporate greed, we would be using lightbulbs that could last years without burning out. But then again how would the lightbulb companies make money? After all, money is the most important thing to these people, far surpassing that of human welfare.
@@firestargaming9521well i mean if the company cant make money they wont exist, then where would you get your lightbulb from then?
"Why don't large companies provide quality products instead of products that break down with time so you buy more products?" The world may never know
Easy! MONEY
The world has known for ages ..... just like they outdate software on your old phone just like you used to update your Windows....if you only ever had to buy one of anything the world wouldn't make money ....just like my xbox one series s has got 10 times slower since I bought it and it's been cleaned out ... its almost now as slow as my one s last gen
@@triggermesausage WOW. It's almost like you repeated my own comment to me.
@raptorix-gaming Gosh you're smart.
@@emu4353its because companies want money but you probably didn't think of that did you dummy
Mr Krabs said it best “ I LIKE MONEYYY”
Two words...planned obsolescence
no its because its more expensive and they are greedy
@@warfin1379lol chances are you probably don't know what he meant by that or you wouldn't have disagreed. It can be both
@@ryanabarca8616 oh yeah ik what hes saying now i was prob reslly tired and maby was joking idk lol
@@warfin1379 Or maybe newer controllers are made with better, more accurate parts. Which also means they break easier and quicker. I still have my N64 controllers from 1999. Theyre still in good condition. Theyre still shit compared to today's controllers.
@@LaZarusXtnct no the magnetic joysticks are mor accurate the n64 ones may not be but they make newer ones plus thats what dead zones are for the in sccuracy in the joystick
How to be a business man
Step 1: create a problem
Step 2: solve it
Step 3: create a different problem for the solution so you can sell more solution
1: Create a problem with your item
2: Don’t solve it so the product breaks and they buy more
3: Hide any evidence of a solution
@@WhyAreWeStilllHereJustToSufferthe real answer lol
The Hegelian dialectic. It’s what the elites implement to control the world.
sounds like apple
Companies aren't here to look out for their customers. They're here to build themselves a 5th summer home...
Publicly traded companies are legally obligated to look out for their shareholders - yes. And there are no regulations against execs taking more than their fair share - video games aren't a government agency/a "need" of the people.
Obviously. A reminder: stop worshiping corporations, and you'll do fine.
That extra controller you give your friend when they come over
Damn you're sneaky 😊
I was looking for this comment
True
More like little cousin😂😂😂
Haha
22 years later and Sega still does what Nintendon't
A 90s Homie I see 👀
To be fair, Nintendo still makes consoles, Sega don’t.
They did, sadly Sega stopped making consoles 😭
Sega makes only games now that you play on a real console and usually most games made by sega aren’t that great or they would still be making consoles also. Sega = 💩 but a sad face poopie
The whole time Sega was saying that, they were bleeding money. What a joke.
hey! i actually did a bit of research and the reason companies stick to potentiometers is because they are DIRT CHEAP. they take only 1.25ish to produce which is why not many big companies use hall effect sensors
That's not a logical reason, gullikit makes dirt cheap controllers with hall effect joysticks, even 8bitdo now. Its Sony and xbox's greed
Hall effect joysticks aren't thst much expensive, why not just charge slightly higher to increase the life upto 2 to 3 years of a controller but that would only benefit the consumer and not manufacturer
And the cost to produce hall effect is $2. And companies is like "We can save $0.75 and sell more because they will be broken in no time, why not?" Two birds in one stone.
Do you know how much Sony and Microsoft make???? They can afford to take a loss and put better equipment in there
true, but they make more money with potentiometers because ppl have to buy new/ repair old controllers
The PS2 controller actually has tech in it that recalibrates it's dead zone every time your do a couple 360 turns of the joystick
That's weird because I'm pretty sure I experienced stick drift with the ps2 controllers more than any others lol
@@hahano9586 maybe it couldn't calibrate correctly
Every controller has that, but it can only take so much. It’s a recalibration, not actually fixing it
@@Zack-bl2gg that is true but it's crazy how it still works in some pretty old controllers for the ps2
@@GetWiththeProgramGamingI mean.... If the controller works, why wouldn't it still work?
SEGA being ahead of its time as always
They killed SEGA because SEGA was right!
yes and no... the Dreamcast had hall effect sensors, that's what he's referring to. however, the Dreamcast didn't sell well - it was better than the PS1 but came out right before the PS2, so Sony completely ate their lunch. after that Sega dropped out of home console hardware for good
@@clebbington I wouldn't really count sales as a reflection of the technology though...it had a lot of pretty damn cool ideas is what I'm getting at...addressing problems we have now back then is what I mean about ahead of its time
Yeah and SEGA are still making MASSIVE waves in the gaming community...smh
@@Cybersomnia yeah that makes sense - it's a cool console and there's a reason people still love it, including myself. i keep a copy of shenmue on display in my kitchen >:--)
I like to imagine they did it because they knew the pieces broke fast and people would have to buy more controllers.
That aint imagination. Thats exactly the reason why they do it. Thats the whole point of buisness
"It's all about the money, money, money"
You're old if you start to sing
@@tendysaputraayou are talking to yourself??????????
@@pootisarmy213 Blud has no sense of humor
@@tendysaputraa thank you
Good news, you're old & I'm not.
Idk that song.
I know the one from Michael Jackson.
They don't care they do it for the money. Anything, anything, anything for money. I'd lie to you I'd die for you I'd kill for you. I'd do anything for money.
I like how stick drift wasn't a big issue until a few years ago
it was always a big issue. console makers just made it very hard to tell, and games require more precision than they do now.
the PS1 dual analog had this issue too but the games weren't very accurate to begin with, and the auto-calibration would just result in the controllers getting more "slop" meaning the deadzone would keep getting bigger until it was unusable.
@@JessicaFEREM no it wasn't, your claims are complete and utter nonsense. In my 30 years of gaming I've never had stick drift on ANY controller until I bought an Xbox series s last year. This has never been an issue in the history of gaming and to claim otherwise makes you a liar.
@@michaelmiguelicutti2829 the controllers haven't changed since the original dualshock. And I have friends that have tons of consoles and play them for thousands of hours and can back me up on this.
The only possible thing that could've changed in 30 years of the analog stick is software. Other than notable exceptions like the N64 and Sega thumbsticks, every other thumbstick is based off of the same technology of a piece of metal running over a resistance strip known as a Potentiometer.
Have you ever turned a volume knob that makes scratchy noises after a while? That's the same thing that's happening inside a drifting controller's sticks.
Max you’re wrong and dumb. I had drift on an analog joystick in the 90s.
I have hall effect sensors for my driving sim pedals. I chose to buy that set for the brake pedal load cell mainly, instead of using the ones that came with the wheel. Those had potentiometers.
If u remember correctly, the patent expired recently. They have no excuse anymore.
the new gamesir g7 se has this feature
@@animecutscenes3414 Yes, for the triggers. Unfortunately the analog sticks still use ALPS modules shown here.
@@stonerhino83no the sticks too I’m pretty sure.
@@stonerhino83 The stick on the gamesir g7 have the hall effect sensor
@@noahdalentoft8076 It shows the specs at the bottom of the G7 page. It reads "Analog Joysticks: Yes, ALPS"
“It has a tendency to get dirty and damaged” *JABS IT OUT WITH A FLATHEAD SCREWDRIVER*
😑
He isn’t gonna use it anyway
That honestly doesn't do as much damage as it may seem.
I promise you it didn't do as much damage as you think it did, I take apart my remotes down to the circuits on a regular and for some of those parts unfortunately they require that much force to be removed.
Technically speaking, even hall effect sensors can develop stick drifr via different mechanisms: the springs losing tention, or the wiper's retainer piece losing tention. Granted it is not nearly as vulnerable or ubiquitous as the graphite abrasion based stick drift that haooens on potentiometer based sticks.
Wow so even Hall effect sensors have planned obsolescence?
/s
@@naliboi93 Flydigi's vader 3 and 4 and apex 4 have a spring-less mechanism
Those are also there in potentiometer based sticks too right?
@@inxiveneoy the springs? yes
between controller lasting for couple of monts vs couple of years there is a major difference, i've bought myself the one with the Hall effect thumbsticks, im gonna test how long it would last, and i suspect quite a bit longer than ~6 months that my previous controllers lasted
Casually watching videos on stick drift so that I would get pumped up about my purchase of a hall effect based contoller.
Nintendo used optical sensors for the n64 but it's pretty useless bc the stick itself wares itself of pretty quick
mmm... maybe... but never had a drift.
It was also one of the first commercial joysticks, so much so the ps1 didn't even have them for a while
Honestly the N64 joystick if replaced with sturdier metal parts, is actually one of the best joysticks to ever exist. The level of precision of their sticks is unmatched. Shame they wear down in a couple weeks of use.
@@Drazil100 it is. It was just amazing. The problem is the plastic parts. Specially the bowl under the stick. It erodes bad. A metallic bowl surely would help a lot.
Surprisingly Interact had a controller with metal parts for the joystick and they have outlasted most 1st party controllers… less accurate out of the box unfortunately
I think all of us know why companies don't do the "unbreakable" products.
this is why we NEED a sega dreamcast 2
We did, its called the Xbox
lmao, when pigs fly
Pretty detailed explanation. Thanks for sharing. It’s unfortunate to think that there’s a high chance they continue using suboptimal parts for the sake of ensuring sales.
As long as people keep purchasing them they won’t alter their manufacturing procedure. But bringing awareness as you mentioned is key.
Thanks, thats exactly it. The more we are all aware of the situation, the harder it is for them to hide it.
Also we cant forgot about the abundance of units they still have at the factory
It's more for cutting costs than for increasing sales. Potentiometers are cheaper than dirt, with the entire stick assembly only costing $0.20, while the Hall effect sensors are under patent from Guilkit and cost upwards of $3 per stick.
Increasing sales is just a fortunate (for them) byproduct of saving money.
@@GremlinSciences
Okay but like, why not put them for the Edge Controllers then? They’re pretty expensive, so shouldn’t we be getting joysticks that will last long too?
Hell, they can be optional pieces since you can remove the joysticks directly, and just replace them with the Hall effect ones, doesn’t have to be a whole new controller!
But no, I get it, companies never change. It’s all about money in the end to them..
To quote Bill Heard from Commodore "Pennies matter in quantities of a million" in short cost
It has a patent that can't be used without paying the creators a huge sum of money
Apparently 3rd party controllers 8bitdo, gullikit, and gamesir selling the $80au controllers for PC and Nintendo are going broke then... because a $250au xbox elite s2 can't afford to include $3au retail price sticks... 🤣
how do i have it for cheap cheap
@@fffmpeg on pc? Just get the $80 controllers. On console you likely would need to have a cronus zen to get hall effect sticks to work on a console as I am aware they can make PS controllers work on xbox and the other way around. But the price to do that on console is like $100 for a second hand cronus which is being banned on multiple games now so you would be limited to playing unsupported games or ea games atm. So pointless really and soldering in hall effect sticks doesn't work as they need additional circuitry which needs additional room of which there is none in a controllers body. Unless maybe somehow gulikit allows the circuit board to be placed where the rumble motors are and you remove the motors? Most competitive players who would go to these lengths don't use vibration anyway so would be viable.
As said before several other companies made their own hall effect sensors. Gulikit does have their own patented sensors but there's some way around it.
Gamesir released the Khaleid controller most recently. 40 bucks, couple back buttons, hall effect joysticks and an interesting see through shell with RGB strips design, which may or may not be too flashy for some.
@@___meph___4547 there's EP2204719B1 (EU only) and US20220413542A1 (pending in the EU) related to hall effect joysticks.
We should all file a class action lawsuit against these companies and force them to make better controllers. Microsoft faced a lawsuit for their elite controllers but it was settled out of court. Time to take them to trial!
for what? because their product sucks? that's like taking Burger King to court because their food is bad.
They have and were laughed at by Microsoft’s billion dollar lawyers
Actually its a good idea, for the compare case, its like Europe forced iphone to using typed c instead lightning port, so actually we can forced all the consoles brand to using hardware that the same like sega did in their joystick.
Where’s my money then I have three elite controllers since they came out and they aren’t elite they just fit my hands that’s it
@@LukeTheSchoolBoy”You’re point is invalid because *insert false equivalency*.”
I think you hit the nail - *planned obsolescence* 🤨
I've never had that problem with any of my devices and the ones I've bought used haven't had that problem either. The problem just isn't common enough to justify the added expense when most people aren't using these products for more than a few years before getting rid of them anyways.
"Rubbish parts" lol😂
Creating a demand provides an active supply, this is purely rule 1 of marketing
One simple answer to the question...
Marketing...
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I wonder if it could effect people like me who has a ICD they can't be around strong magnets i know things like the Elite series controllers doesn't effect it
Is it possible to send in the controller and have it be changed to the better one?
quick question, where do you buy gulikit sticks?
Okay, electrical engineer 💀💀💀😫😫😫
Ya, they want you to buy new controllers
Welcome to the game. Planned obsolescence
I’d pay Sony extra if they made Hall effect stick modules for the Dualsense edge but then they would make less money so they’re never gona do that. What a scam company!
"that one controller your friend gives you when you come over"
Ong
SEGA really does what Nintendon't! Anti stick drift back in the 90s!
"Yeah I got a spare controller" the spare controller:
Because they want 💵 I would happily pay more for something that lasts
Read the comments sorry for bro I don't play switch feel bad for all of us even, if we fix for free I just got extended warranty so I don't have to pay 90 aud, 94 pulse red 108 3 year warranty, if they even offered to fix free wouldn't there still be a problem? Shouldn't they last?
Good point, I think most of us would
Gultik controller costs around 60usd
Bruh Xbox controllers at least worth 20$ in actual materials. They gon add something minimul and increase a controller from 60-80. Rip poor people
...nintendo fixes it free...
@@connorjones1100 it shouldn’t need fixing in the first place if they made good controllers
Its not a question if every Joycon will break, its when. It'll be a fun trivia topic for future console collectors. You just know someone's gonna pay lots of money for a sealed joycon just to see what it was like at launch.
gamesir controllers:
Hold my HAL STICKS
They stopped using the Holofx card because it was unreliable. Magnets demagnetize over time. So instead of getting garbage input after too much use, you’d get no inputs. Worse still, they’d wear down even if not being used.
Source: my father whose living has been repairing controllers for 30+ years.
Remagnetization?
I’d rather not have a working controller one day after like 7 years then getting a new controller every year
I think a good way to fix that is to change the magnets to electromagnets as it is powered by electricity.
@@McChillinLikeAVillianDam is that really how long the magnetic ones last..??
@@GORILLA_PIMP yes bro, there supposed to last like 9 years tops and 6 at minimum
I just had to take apart my ps5 controller and fix the stick drift. We need this
Try drift blockers
Potentiometer is not the only reason causes drift. In my experience of eliminating drift/dead zones i had to clean potentiometers, put some film between weared sliding parts (stick and this rotating part) and sensor joint. Some lube also helps extend lifetime. These actions helps to reduce dead zone to less then 1%
The reason is that they want us to "buy" more controllers because they keep breaking
good thing i fixed mine when this happened
im not paying 70$ for another controller 🤧
I get all the parts i can to gix myself
Nintendo has to fix em for free so they losing money there
I haven’t gotten stick drift on any controllers in 25 years, except of course joycons. The pot sticks are just fine 99.9% of the time, but that 0.1% is very vocal.
TRUE
companies do this on purpose, not only are the potentiometer joysticks cheaper to manufacture. they are also unreliable, which inevitably leads to you buying more of their unreliable controllers. not to mention that there are practically no repair shops that can fix it. yet another way big companies screw you over
Indeed, Sega already solved the problem in the 90s. I don't get it why the "new" controllers make use of potentiometers instead of Hall effect, because using magnets is the less expensive technology, with less and simpler moving parts. I'm glad the companies goin' back to the roots...
POV: the extra controller your friend hands you
Here's youtube recycling content over 6 months
Hall effect sensors also drift over time due to the magnetic field changing in the sensor. It happens a lot faster in environments that fluctuate a lot but over time it happens no matter what. Hall effect sensors are definitely better in my opinion but there are ups and downs with both.
Thank you was looking for someone who actual knew ifv they were better
Shhhh can’t say things like the truth
yeah but that's over time, and easily correctable with an adjustment screw if you care to, but the more important thing is that it doesn't fail in a few months of heavy gaming, if you're gaming that hard you're more likely to wear out the rubber pads before then, which to me is a reasonable failure mode.
Yeah but the fail rate stick drift on a hall effect method is drastically lower fail rate compared to a potentiometers
By the time, it's starts drifting you may or may not moving on in life
The quick answer to that question is money. Potentiometers are cheaper then hall effect sensors but I do agree with what you're saying, especially that Microsoft should have followed it considering the Xbox was essentially a Dreamcast 2
Same as the lightbulb scam. Almost all businesses make cheap, effective products that last long enough for you to like it until it breaks and you "need" a new one.
I agree, good to see others know about the light bulb situation!
There are 2 reasons this isn't used in controllers. They use ferromagnet and are expensive. Ferromagnets are fragile and can be damaged when dropped. Definitely more of the first reason than the second, but the "pro" controllers should definitely be using them.
Don't drop it?
Oh yeah, its to much expensive for a console would cost's around 500$, yeah, *too much expensive*
But now explain ev bikes, the same use the same magnets
the magnets aren't that fragile, and they can be Embedded in plastic which would completely prevent them from being damaged unless the controller itself is extremely damaged.
I'm pretty sure regular hall effect sticks wouldn't be damaged by any drop which doesn't also crack the shell.
It has been used, in ps3 controllers. They literally went back because they lasted too long. Meanwhile new controllers cost several times over.
@@Mr371312where did you hear this?
"First, we create the problem. Then, we'll sell the solution"
Stick shift is the bane of my console gaming existence 🙄. I've gone through so many controllers because of it, I tolerate it for a bit but toss the damn thing once it gets real bad. Luckily I've gotten use to cheap wired controllers by now so when it does happen, it doesn't hurt as much as much as it did when my 60$ controllers went down for the count 💀
Dude stop eating KFC and taco bell while gaming and it won't happen so much 😂
@Ryan Abarca your moms messiness on my fingertips is bad for controllers apparently, love her smell tho 🤤😂
@@ryanabarca8616what do you even mean?
two reasons: cheaper to manufacture, and it breaking will most likely result in you buying another controller. I haven't played on my Xbox in a long time, so I don't even know if they have warranty for these kinds of things, but I'm guessing if you replace the joysticks, it will void your warranty.
What makes you think it’s cheaper to manufacture? They both cost pennies to make.
Replacement part comes in 10 or more
@@frosty1433 and one is pennies cheaper than the other. That's how petty and cheap Microsoft and these other greedy companies are!
fun fact, though: traditional pots are fine if you occasionally get in there and clean them. The "drift" is because of a combination of both the springy, mechanical nature of the components wearing out over time (think like the N64 stick pieces but with a lot less slop), so the spring in the assembly can't force the other bits back to neutral/center... AND the plastic-on-plastic pieces develop lash; the post inside the actual piece your thumb touches, the tab that rotates the X and Y pots, they cam-out over time simply from use...
I'm an old sega fan, I was well acquainted with the hall sensors in the Saturn 3d pad and the dreamcast pad, and I honestly kind of hated them... trying to gently transition from their neutral position into any direction resulted in a lot of very, albeit brief, twitchy stuttering movement/input as the three or two other directions you WEREN'T trying to influence had to figure out why the magnetic field suddenly changed at all... PLUS, both sticks could turn in-place about 5 or 10 degrees, which added to the subtle uncertainty of fine movement.
I know i'm in the minority of regularly opening and maintaining my controllers, but aside from my original N64 and launch-model PS2 pads, all the rest of my analog controllers still have a perfectly predictable and manageable neutral dead-zone.
Gamecube probably taught me the most about analog nuance after countless hours spent on Melee and F-Zero GX.
The takeaway is no physical device will function perfectly forever. Those new analog stick assemblies with the hall-sensor swap-in components will still eventually develop drift as the physical moving components wear over time.
We gotta blow this up frfr
More like Blow up the people who wanna Gouge us for all our money for mediocre controllers.
Like 911
they want us to buy controls all time
Small nuance to note: Magnetic devices, even hall effect sensors, will not last forever. Magnets do slowly lose their 'charge' as it were. But it's going to take such a long time that yes, those sensors will last much much longer than anything mechanical in nature. The rest of the joystick will probably break down sooner.
It will last like 40 years or even more. Come on
@@BenutzernameXY Doesn't matter. If the claim is forever, then the claim is wrong. Granted, something like 40 years is going to feel like it to a person, I will give you that. But it's not forever.
Just call it what it is. A superior product that lasts a long time and will have negligable changes in performance when used properly.
This isnt the part that causes stick drift it is the resistive materiale that gets scraped away on the other side of the potentiometer.
I find it crazy most people just throw the controller away instead of trying to repair it themselves. If its going into the trash at least take it apart and get an idea
Same thought here, I repair controllers in my family and the only thing I won't replace is the motherboard (they cost 40€ or above for originals), a new controller is 60€ here. The battery is the most expensive thing that I'll replace and it usually comes with an upgrade (1000mAh to 1500 or 2000mAh for ps4 controllers) and they cost 20€ for 2 x 1500mAh batteries and 20€ for 1 x 2000mAh.
I find it crazy people just buy cars instead of build them.
On second thought, maybe they just buy them because they don’t know enough about cars to build one…but that would mean they don’t know everything about everything…
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad Actually two very different things no? Repairing and building? Many people can replace a tire, or battery of a car. And that would be more in line of what we are talking about here.
There are also countless tutorials for common problems, good ones, that'll give you the guidance you need to repair a controller (or car).
And I wouldn't try and repair a car (especially when it's a more advanced issue) without a professional besides me, cause well it's a lot more expensive if you make a mistake.
On a controller, you might break the tabs, no problem, it has screws that hold it together. Or you might tear a ribbon, no problem just get a new ribbon (very cheap).
If you need to desolder or solder a part, then maybe get someone besides you that is more knowledgable, but even that is not that difficult when you compare it to many car repairs.
Personally every time there is a repair needed, car, controller, television, etc... and I don't know how to do that then I ask someone (a professional) if they can help. I've learned a ton that way. In my opinion many people are too lazy to do that and decide it's too much of a hassle and just buy everything new.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChadthis is closer to refilling gas
before this year, I’ve only ever heard of stick drift in context of the Switch and N64, but now it’s every where
Neodymium magnets are expensive, also the ps2 controllers as a sensor to detect stick drift and correct it. You wouldn’t even need the console, the controller itself can tell when there are inputs that don’t make sense and will automatically adjust its output. Damn things are tough as nails too. I had one that the entire front plastic part of where the left stick is got worn out, broke, fell into the controller and was like that for years before I took it apart to clean. Works just fine compared to a new out the box controller, albeit not as stiff in the sticks and triggers.
2cents for 2 magnets (if you buy in bulk), pretty expensive, should take a loan to afford it. Dang it.
Someone that has a UA-cam channel is currently developing his own, and will begin a test phase. With a Released product soon after.
Very helpful. I’ll look for someone that has a UA-cam channel.
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad Marius heier
the part you showed is the sweeper, it can get stuff gunked in it but its usually the graphite from the track pads that are on the actual potentiometers which are the green part you opened, usually theres some missing from the track when drift happens, sometimes its the spring in the stick that breaks too
1. Cost
2. Design
3. Patents
Also. The metal piece you show does not fail. It's the carbon contact on the other side that wears down, inside the potentiometer housing welded to the controller.
High quality magnets that don't weaken over time, are actually relatively new. Cheap ones are also rather new. The design is also something that can require *per controller* calibrations, which again, we're difficult to scale. And finally the Hall Effect sticks used in the Dream cast are patented, and I believe SEGA lost a lawsuit over it. That is likely a pending lawsuit for whoever does it as an OEM if they don't license it.
Average Fortnite players controller
🤣
@@TinkerManMick nah I got another one, yours friends 2nd controller for split screen:
It's interesting because we have companies that make things like knives for chefs and scissors for hairstylists that cost thousands of dollars and come with lifetime warranty for sharpening or replacing for free, they even give you a perfect temporary one while they have your shears (in the case of hairstylists). You can even still sell the shitty ones, but you'll effectively remove competition.
The little piece of metal is not the part that causes stick drift it's actually the blueish green plastic piece, it as the metallic surface that gets scratched on the other side
Yeah it fixes drift but the magnets itself introduce more issues like losing their magnetic field over time making them less accurate. Especially holding other magnets nearby can cause tons of issues.
The loss of accuracy overtime is still takes more time to be more noticeable than it is on potentiometer, its only accelerated when you're in an area with constant heavy magnetism in which case, why?
I have their controller, and yes nearby magnets can influence the readings, but with a fridge magnet I have to make it extremely close just to see rhe effect in action, you meed to have a pretty strong magnet nearby which begs the question why would you even have that strong of a magnet nearby electronics to begin with?
I think it's because they want you to keep buying new controllers. Some of my PS4 controllers got stick drift over time. But my PS5 controller hasn't yet, probably because I haven't had it for long. And as for my PS3 controller, never had any problems with it.
Our PS3 controllers have been perfect too. One survived being thrown down concrete steps by my mom, the other one stayed together but a piece of the handle chipped off. (Unfortunately that one wasn't saveable but I'm impressed the whole thing didn't fall apart)
More money, and they don’t pick up on movement as well
I agree with you. kinda like how the corporations that started selling lightbulbs reduced live efficiency of them to half for more money. I now know why people told me “they don’t make things like they use to” haha
I would assume potentiometers are cheaper among other reasons.
They do it so they can sell you a new controller when the sticks inevitably fail.
Needs its own microcontroller, using a ton more electricity
Along with other things people have said: "magnets expensive, we make cheap."
The potentiometer is what allows you to slightly move the joystick and walk for example instead of run, and gives fine control. The part you talk about that Sega has couldn’t do that, it only detected movement in binary. Meaning it was either you moved or didn’t, with no degrees of movement. But from what I understand that was on the logic of the board and modern day solutions can indeed do it with magnets instead of potentiometers but it’s not the same part you’re referencing with the sega controller.
I agree though with the above comment it breaks down to planned obsolescence.
Major appliances do the same thing. The parts they use break down over time so you have no choice but to purchase a new one. My grandparents had the same refrigerator for 40 years with no issues. Ours lasted about 12 years before I couldn’t replace parts any longer.
I feel like partly because of planned obsolescence, which makes sense business wise and also potentiometers are more accurate, hall effects are good but none are as accurate as potentiometer, maybe if we close the gap and potentially make it even better
“Nights Into Dreams”… ahhh memories
I think if we look back at Mr. Krabs famous words it’ll all make sense.
Imagine opening a shop, where you modify people's controllers with these parts. It'd be a strong business
What’s wierd is Nintendo offers to fix stick drift on joycons for free including shipping so either they’re just trying to keep the illusion up or enough people don’t know about it to keep it afloat without worrying about fixing half of the the joycons that are in circulation, if not more
My brain at 2:00 am for no reason:
Disrespectful to their customers!
Videos & reels like this need to be heavily addressed at product launches & these companies need to be put on the spot publicly when asked on what they will do about it!
70 year old cars in driveways , 10 year old car in the junkyard. Go figure.
And smooth & high sensitivity drift is what I value most in a controller!
fun fact, some early models of ps3 controllers and the original psvita used hall effect joystick, both the controller and psvita got revisions later in their life spam that switched to potentiometers
"yeah I have an extra controller"
Make a stick that uses that and sell it man, we will buy it!! 🔥
Nintendo actually intentionally used a joystick that's even worse than the regular Xbox and PlayStation ones, that's why they have such an issue with joycon drift
They use graphite sensors that wear down into dust over time that just completely destroys the joystick and they have a rubber dome over the top instead of a plastic one cause it allows dust and dead skin to get in
"No moving parts" is not correct in any sense 😭
How business works
1: create something with a problem on purpose
2: Don’t fix it
PlayStation, Microsoft, and Nintendo: *WE MUST HAVE MMMMMOOOOOOONNNNNNNEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
I can explain it in one word: money
The most common problem is it not surviving the fly to the other side of my room when I chuck it.
They want you to continuously buy more controllers. That's how the mafia works.
In certain games the Hall effect controllers (on xbox) have a hard time registering movement properly. Example: in fo76 I was over encumbered but usually my character still walks pretty fast but when using any Hall effect controller my character barely moves compared to a regular potentiometer.
This has only ever happened in fallout and plugging in a normal Xbox controller immediately fixes it
They think they will sell more controllers that way. But they actually just make more repairmen.
Imagine making devices that lasted forever, never needed repair or replacement and can be used but newer devices of the future....... One immortal controller
Sega does what other companies dont
Friend: my friend is so cool he lets me use the on brand controller when we play together
*me with my superior off brand controller*