Thanks for bringing ian on to talk and being more than fair with him. I know he felt really good about the conversation and talked about it for days after. This was a really nice watch and I enjoyed the back and forth with Francesca. I think this is a helpful convo for just base understanding of why the world is the way that it is and I hope more people can be honest and open in the future so we can get to a better place. We really appreciate you and I admire you.
@@mephistophelesghost6712 maybe thats all you heard as a weak person. but anyone who is strong heard the subtext and know that "even if no one accepts my apology. I will still always do the right thing." You are more spinless than you will ever know right now, but there is always tomorrow.
Something Franchessca said really made me think about the failure of new atheism and the broader skepticism movement that came from that: They often came from a critical perspective and gave nothing more than "discard faith and trust science," which isn't necessarily bad but also far from good enough. Anyway, great discussion so far! Back to watching...
They really leaned hard into the "facts don't care about your feelings" mindset and it is no wonder that so many became right wing reactionaries. Belief it or not is a newer atheist channel that is heavily focused on empathy. They aren't about debunking things. They are about looking at how the actions and messaging of the church affects people.
@@5Amigos32 Yeah, I agree with you there. I think the reason "bread tube" never would amount to anything is related. The folks involved rejected the label and stuck to themselves. "Cornbread tube" intrinsically understands the need for empathy and cooperation. I've been trying to find similarities between new atheism, skepticism and bread tube. All things I've been interested in, and all things that seemed to have failed in different ways for similar reasons.
This was a rough listen......like not being around black people is no excuse for what he did/said hard stop. We as a community are......if he want's to do the work and be a better man/person then he needs to do the work absent of black people stamping him for approval and allowing him the co-sign. What he did and the environment he created are way more damaging and intentionally destructive. For me these people who have spent time being one way are not and should not be allowed to get a co-sign from us. F him. His apology does nothing for her fear nothing for her safety and he knew what he was doing. He said he was open to an apology no he needs to he must apologize. I am familiar with you Ms.Olurin and am new to your content, you're a great interviewer, keep it up and I look forward to seeing more content from you.
I totally agree with you! This is my theory: I still don’t think he has any real compassion or understanding for Black people. I think he just got with a liberal woman and the tides of the internet started turning and as he admitted himself he started to become “embarrassed” for his past. The circles he was starting to be involved in were starting to look at him funny. I really think he cares more about being accepted by liberal white people which has now become his circle due to his wife and his new endeavors. He even says himself he has no Black friends…. How tf?! For someone as worldly and exposed to different circles as him, that’s a conscious choice. I don’t really think he really understands or deeply cares about how he affected Black people and Black *kids* no less!
Thank you this is my sentiment exactly and trolls in here defending him saying that we are angry. Most perceptive black people see through the BS and feel very mush like Francesca. This is all about money and being marketable to forever make. money. He only changes when it got really real. I have not doubt he harbors those same racist feelings about black people. People talk a good game without any actions
Though don't forget the likes of ShoeOnHead who never changed, they were still grifting fascists. Whenever it starts being profitable to "reform" you're going to get a lot of fakes like that.
I will say the transition from Franchesca to the iDubbz interview was jarring. We went from establishing that he did the bare minimum without addressing specific black people and mentioned a white woman. Which signals he doesn’t actually understand (yet) the impact of his work. Then we get a warm welcome and appreciation that he’d even talk to you. I think that part could have been cut out because this feels like Black people have to “kiss the ring” to be able to rightfully challenge white people for the bare minimum. I think overall this interview was great and this isn’t about you but reminds me how the “boldness” of white people when facing racism can deter how we talk to them to their face. I know you gave a disclaimer about balancing being nice but this was way to nice lol. Hopefully he sees that Franchesca said him going on Tana’s platform would be them gaining capital from his apology. Which is sick.
iDubbz and anyone who has done harmful behavior should know that conversations can be productive without them comforted with hearing appreciation for the bare minimum. I am also sure many things said to him come from manners and greeting any guest on your platform. But as a fellow creator, I know things can be left out post production.
I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy that transition or would’ve liked me to exclude some of the interview for your stated reasons, I chose to show my audience the entire conversation, including me thanking someone for agreeing to an uncomfortable interview that they didn’t have to do.
@@olurinatti you do not have to apologize and maybe I missed the context as well. Was Franchesca’s interview in full? Either way I used “I” statements so I do not speak for others but I’m just saying the severity fell off during that transition and then was further exaggerated through the video for something (imo) he has to be doing given the intro you and Franchesca set up very well.
One thing I'd like to point out about the potential of incentivizing bigotry here is that historically speaking, going from bigoted "edgy" humor to left-wing (regardless of how earnest a change it is) isn't really a successful grift. It usually means having to find a new audience while contending with an old one that hates you. Where on the flip side, the whole "why I left the left" thing works because those people A: never actually were left wing, and B: are usually getting paid directly to say what they say.
Very important point that gets convoluted by all of the reactionaries whining about George Soros. The real money is on the other side. But bc Hasan exists then every leftist creator is a champagne socialist millionaire grifter which is wholly unserious but effective.
Although many creators going right to left have already made money and reinvested it, so it’s not about the money it’s about safety. The right and far right wing have been called out for inciting real life events, therefore many make money and leave.
I do think that in these situations people can mistake moving left from the far right with becoming a leftist though. Like how a colourblind centrist can seem progressive compared to a white supremacist. People will be applauded for adopting the most basic progressive ideas and people say it’s genuine because far right content is more profitable when there’s also a big market for more centrist, center-left ideas. What really matters is having an ideological backbone based in leftist theory instead of vaguely gesturing at being a leftist, the latter doesn’t require people to fully dismantle and replace the way of thinking that led them to the right. I say this as a general warning, I don’t follow idubbs closely enough to know if he’s a true leftist and unless he's switching to discussing leftism I think it would take knowing him personally to know for sure. I just wouldn’t say it can’t be a successful grift.
@@AnonCitizenxxThis to me sounds good on paper, like yeah why not donate all the money you made from the bigoted content and donate it, but for some reason tho to me it does not feel genuine enough. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me, but donating that feels like you are just throwing money at a problem and hoping for the best…..but what do I know 🙃
This is a really good articulation of what restorative justice looks like, especially for those who have never heard of the concept as it relates to the carceral system. You should apologize even when the victim is not ready to forgive. There should be an open dialogue about actions toward reconciliation and restoration. Thank you for mediating this dialogue Olay, and please take care 🤗
Couldn’t have said it better. This video really highlights your your stance as a abolitionist. People grow best when you let them speak and nudge them in the right direction. I’m here for the impact, and I hope he continues to do the work. He’s been given the room and the resources.
Great video, especially loved hearing from Francesca! I was a big fan of her back in the day and was always sad that she stopped making videos. I wasn't even aware of the intense harassment against her, that's so sad to hear. Sidenote, I'd absolutely love if you had a conversation or collab with Kat Blaque. Maybe not even about this topic, I'd just love to see you two chat together lol
The Jink clip is so great because people keep saying “idubbz content holds up without the slurs”…..but if you remove the slurs he’s mocking black culture/mannerisms? And I think that’s exactly why idubbz apology hits hard for the racists because he was in a way taking the hood off of microaggressions by going all in and saying the quiet part out loud
Yeah, hopefully this is the beginning of a series of conversations like this between iDubbbz and black content creators that helps him feel less anxious about taking a step towards being a positive force in the youtube community. The harm he did is done and as with reparations the interest on the debt is more than he alone can pay, but I think from my perspective there are two options. He can either decide that he doesn't deserve the platform because of what he did or he can decide to do something positive with it. I prefer the latter approach as these kinds of conversations are ones that should be had.
Olay, you constantly bring up things i never would’ve thought of and/or put into words why something feels wrong in a way that makes me a permanent subscriber. It keeps my brain working and i love it!!
I hope IDubbz reads some of these comments. In the chance he does, I hope he reads this. I had a friend in my childhood name Jake. He was a hilarious kid and we had bountiful amounts of fun together. Come 6th grade was the pipeline UA-cam era and he slowly morphed into someone who bought into the rhetoric being hateful and ignorant. In 8th grade in an argument, I heard the N-Word used and I haven't talked to him since. I've thought and wished the best for him no matter how much I wanted to hate. He was just an impressionable kid. My father and mother telling me to hate. My friends telling me to hate. But I couldn't. It is never easy being the bigger person, that's why so few of them we meet in our lives. I want to reach out but I fear that same space he resides in still is flourishing on the internet. IDubbz, you ruined my childhood best friend relationship. If capitalism is to continue, black people will continue to be ignored. You have an opportunity of a lifetime, don't depend on capitalist organizations to aid your goal of reconstructing your image and message. Thank you for coming and talking to a black person who is educated and informed and won't hold back. We could really use you help in this fight against racism. I'd love to see Jake again. I'd love to tell him how much I enjoyed our times together. I'm sure there are countless people in my position as well.
Okay im not one to “accept apologies” from celebrities/influencers but this definitely allows me to have some respect idubbbz. He was willing to be interviewed by the Queen herself and open to the criticism and conversations being had!! Props to you all for your insights.
I'd honestly have expected to see NFKRZ here before I'd have ever expected iDubbbz 😂 Especially for this particular topic. I am fascinated to see how this conversation plays out.
Why?? NFKRZ never really talks openly like idubbbz did about politics. I know he is more left leaning (he even said it). But he doesn't really engage in it and doesn't have controversy with the right-wing as idubbbz does.
nothing more annoying to me as a russian that nfkrz is most well know ru creator for eng speakers. dude couldn’t be more beige and bland and liberal western-centric with his politics lmao hope he never appears here
I think I got recommended this after eatching a few leftist mafia clips, having heard about it through Majority Report. Just wanted to say I loved this conversation over all, but one thing I really appreciate how at several times the discussion led to places where there aren't quick or definitive answers or resolutions, and that this is viewed as okay and allowed. Like, what can idubbz do to make things up to and aplogize to the people he hurt? Well here's some ideas, but at the same time, those ideas agent for everyone, and many people may never forgive him. But that's okay. And it's important for people to realize that and get that message. Sometimes all you can do is do your best and be the best you can, and then live with the pain or uncertainty or regret that remains. And other examples too. But basically yeah, conversations don't always end in a beautoful resolution wrapped in a bow where everyone is happy. They are often ongoing and sometimes eternal. And it's great for me at least to see that message here is all. I'm excited to explore more of your content going forward.
I remember watching the content cop videos and I remember parroting some of the racist talking points in those videos ("either its all okay or none of its okay" 🤦♀). And I remember going through life with black people who would be my friends at first and then slowly distance themselves cause I was fucking racist. I didn't know why it kept happening. I didn't think I was racist at the time. Its easy to think you're not racist when the rest of the dominator culture in society is as racist as you. Then a few years ago I almost lost everything due to financial issues, and I had an epiphany about class. (I've always been poor but never THAT close to being on the streets.) That epiphany made me reevaluate everything I knew. My previous thoughts on class, race, gender, etc were suddenly incompatible with the reality of the world I saw. I saw what it was like to live without a safety net and I realized that if it could happen to me it was definitely happening to other people. I started to think about who would fall through the cracks. I started to think about how the society we live in must have an underclass to function. I thought about who that underclass in America IS and what would happen to them if they didn't make it like I did. The nature of being racist while thinking you aren't is that you cannot know all the people you've hurt. It is the nature of willful blindness while thinking you have on glasses. I cannot solve racism, but the solution I've found I can do everyday as an individual is to not be a caltrop in the step of black people. Being marginalized in the USA is death by a thousand papercuts and the least I can do is not be the paper.
Yeah I remember I was taking a college course at one point and I was friends with a white dude for a bit and it was relatively going alright, had similar interests n all but then he begun spouting a bunch of questionable, if not downright hateful stuff like how he was boasting about the genocide of the Native Americans as if it was a good thing or talking about slavery as if it's nothing without taking into consideration my feelings on the matter. So yeah I eventually distanced myself from him too after snapping at him one time. Maybe he'll go into a similar situation as you or maybe he'll just stay in his oblivious ignorance. You can also start by countering it if you see it, even if it's casual otherwise saying "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle" you can actually practice it and influence your own community rather than expect us to do the same work we've been doing for generations.
Thanks for conducting these interviews Olay, we really needed to hear these perspectives! Truthfully, I think the best thing he can do is to start cutting checks for the creators he directly impacted, especially those he ran off the platform. I don’t care for the niceties and I hate when yt ppl pity themselves. Good on him for taking accountability but that’s the bare minimum. Open ur purse😭
Ooo I am intrigued. Hadn’t even heard of this dude until his apology but I’ve been a fan of Franchesca (Chescaleigh) from jump and I gotta say, I feel her frustration on this one. But I also get that people should be allowed to grow and make amends for their wrongs. I’m very curious how that dynamic will play out here
@Stamara2011 yea the problem here is idubbz is not taking the beneficial route, if he wanted more money. The money for grifting is all on the reactionary side. He actually lost something like 50k on his Creator Clash event.
@@Stamara2011I am kind of confused about the point of taking a stance against someone when they are clearly changing their ways. Like you don't have to forgive them or like them or w/e but this is just counter productive at the very minimum.
@@Stamara2011this is just a dumbass approach to this. first of all: you don't know this at all, lol. are you his accountant? second of all, why would that matter? is he not sufficiently sorry until he's destitute and unable to do anything useful to make amends for the massive harm he caused? third of all, the left isn't where you go to grift lmao. if dude wanted to grift he could have stayed on the right, saying slurs and taking fracking billionaire money to say climate change is fake. like I genuinely do not understand where you are coming from. you don't gotta forgive him but the approach of saying he's a "left wing millionaire grifter" is a.) patently and visibly untrue and b.) counterproductive. do we not want people to change? Christ.
This is so refreshing to see. As a black person who grew up skating (still to this day) I have SO many white friends who used to, and in some ways still do subscribe to a more “edgy” approach to humor - and hearing you say you went to a boarding school where you were the only black person related to me so much, because I feel like when you’ve been in those situations, it’s a BIT easier to come from a place of empathy in these conversations. While at the same time being educational and framing things in a way that makes it “palatable” to a person who is or has been groomed into a white supremacist mindset. Unfortunate that that’s what it takes to make folks understand, but it’s so important to have these conversations. So props to both you and Idubbz for being civil, normal fucking people and talking things out in a mature understanding way. I say all that to say, I never knew anything about idubbz until the apology video, and I never knew anything about this channel until this video, so you earned a sub. Shout out to the algorithm, been watching too many FD videos I guess 😂
What an incredible convo. And i love that the grievances and reservations Franchesska had were BEFORE the Idubbz interview. Hear HER first, a person affected by that era of youtube and his videos, then talk to him. I hope we can all move forward together and create a better world.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't know how to feel about it. I peg these creators in my mind as "unsafe" and them simply saying they've changed isn't enough. Forgiveness is earned, and unfortunately, these creators have done ages of damage for me to simply take them at their word.
Awesome vid really appreciate the way you break these situations down and express some of the genuine pain that comes form being a group without a voice having the small voice they can have stripped away, while also allowing an avenue for someone to try to make penance by filling the world with good and doing the opposite of the actions done to damage the world in the past I think Ethan does genuinely have remorse and a better perspective but there will always be a small animosity with how as someone white in the space it is alot easier to become established do dirty and switch up without much recompense and then praise them for making it to the other side. Thanks for your content and giving a resource that looks like me to aspire toward
What you said about him apologizing to Black people in that video - I had no idea he'd attacked Black individual creators. I avoided the dude's channel because i knew he was a racist at the time, and i avoided his apology because i don't accept words at this point. He and all the people who think he did a nice apology need to accept that he's still a racist until he actually WORKS to make amends.
What leads me to believe Idubbz is sincere is he wasnt getting cancelled or anything. As best I can tell, his apology is in part a reaction to his fans annoyed he decided to grow up to begin with.
@berickslime6718 yeah I didn't get intl details. But that's still kinda my point. His motivation seems to be less shitty and to encourage less shittiness. I don't think there's any financial benefit in it for him. Especially since he de-listed so much of his stuff.
I dont "forgive" former racist content creators but I want to learn more about, why they go down that path. So, I'm here for the case studies. Edit: representation does matter. And segregation + uncritical history classes (book banning, etc.) do perpetuate racism. Insularisation and ignorance both create racist and heinous folks.
Just started watching but my instinctive answer is because its easy for them to be Pro-White Supremacy (I used that instead of "racist" because it provided less wiggle room) in our culture than not. It's like the Black Face thing...everyone who does it goes through the same arc; -Gets attention trying to be shocking -claims it was a joke, doesn't understand the history or know why you're upset -realizes they did something shitty -apologies (this last one tends to be optional) The reality is that they knew and didn't care. The most charitable interpretation of any of this is that they want attention and because it doesn't affect THEIR lives, they think its "harmless" or they just don't care about who they are hurting until the consequences are too big to ignore. I doubt some of them, like iDubbbz WERE deeply racist to begin with, hence, his disavowing what he previously did (not that it matters because its still a shitty thing to do). Our culture allows and promotes this type of thinking...
You suggested to Ian that he bring black platforms up, and he said that it was a good idea and that he would take your advice. I'm curious if he actually did take your advice. It's hard to see his video and the conversations he has had with you and other people as anything other than a way to heal himself, to face his demons. I don't know if that is necessarily an issue, it's certainly not my place to make that judgment.
First off, I am definitely one of the people that Ian's platform brought here lmao. I'm so glad he was able to sit down with someone like yourself to talk about the actual impact of his actions on black people. You bringing up Jinx and talking to Francesca put into perspective some of the real issues with his previous content to me. He really did destroy a black man's career and direct a hate mob for no good reason at a black woman. Like that's pretty unforgivable. I was a big fan of idubbz back in the day and was a fuckin asshole who used slurs for "edgy comedy." It stems from a lack of love. There's a shame associated with loving people as a cis man in a toxicly masculine culture and it seemed like Ian wised up to change. As someone who had to walk a similar path to Ian's, I'm glad he really seems to listen and learn like we all should. Thanks for having Ian on and having a frank convo about this. You gained a sub out of me happily ❤
Olayami, I understand your reasoning for taking a break from LM, I know you need time to recharge and keep your mental healthy. That being said, I miss you so very much, and I look for any opportunity to find your presence. I Love You Forever, My Queen
As a white guy i used to watch idubz in highschool and thought he was funny but i was also raised as an antisemitic flat earther which i didnt break out of till after highschool lol
Olay here is giving a master class in how to meet someone where they are at without holding back on who you are and what you're about when it comes to addressing harm. The message I'm left with is that this guy built a platform off of hate. And no matter where he goes with that now, he still has that clout and the ability to open doors that come with it. And a lot of the specific people he punched down on are not doing so hot today. I hope we can keep this reality at the center of conversations like this moving forward. And let #reparations continue to be a part of that conversation. I'm a long time fan of Franchesca. New to breadtube and new to this channel. Never heard of that white guy before. Obviously Olayemi has a new subscriber now. ✅
I must be really out of touch I dont know any of these people. Might be better for me to stay out this particular rabbit hole. It’s sound like there’s nothing new under the sun..
Can an argument be made that some of them are actually really bigots, and only pivot because their platforms grow large enough that their bigotry has a negative impact on their growth so they look to appeal to a larger audience by backpedaling their previously made comments, or positions?
Franchesca taking time fighting strike misinformation and on strike and still took time for this. What a schedule and truly one of the best media figures we’ve been blessed with.
As a whyt person I’m really underwhelmed with the state of interracial relations at the moment; I feel like open, thoughtful, compassionate conversations are incredibly sparse recently because of the extreme polarity between the left and right, and the fears leftists have to misstep. I’ve been feeling more and more let down by humanity in general recently, ever since I learned that being gifted means more than just being a little smart. I used to think I could teach anyone to be compassionate if I just talked to them for long enough, but now I realize that maybe I’m just too different and I have to make peace with the shittiness. This video was a huge relief for me, stepping into a space with a real discussion happening instead of simplified reactionary arguments. I desperately wish more people were like everyone in this video. You and Idubbz have both got a subscription from me. I never watched him back in the day but I know he was extremely famous at some point- but who knows, maybe I’ll get the chance to bring him a little further left at some point, lol. (Oh, and side note- I was so confused by him saying ‘I didn’t grow up around black people, I grew up in southern California’- what?? You gotta be more specific than SoCal for that to make any sense lmao)
Great Conversation, well done for both parties coming together to address it. really appreciate this, the insight from your perspective and willingness to talk it through. much respect!
"Its always edge till they in a corner..." Sorry isn't even not enough, its the wrong thing entirely. You don't get to spit out a video - which is your career anyway - saying its all over and you're moving on and you've changed etc. That is not for you to decide. You haven't changed if people don't even trust that you have. These 'creators' should go away, as in, go offline, do the work, give-up some time and money and comfort and repent. I'm sorry, thats just how I see it. If you don't feel some discomfort or pain, then you won't remember or appreciate the lesson. Not to mention, that you need to make it up to the people you've harmed IN PRIVATE and on THIER TERMS.
Thank you!!! Adopted into a white family and have to deal with shit like this but it’s my family and you’ve given me so much a framework of how to stand up for myself and my real parents and family and black lives cuz of course the anti blackness is there with now white effort to do better
You made some really interesting points this was a great video and I’m glad it got directly to idubbz so maybe there can be some more material action. Anyways just really good
you are such a ray of sunshine, olay. this was so good to see. ian doesnt deserve everyones forgiveness but that should never be the expectation of sincere apologies, and this highlighted that so well. wishing ian and the people hes hurt growth and love in their lives ❤
I really really appreacite the space for conversation you've created with this video. I've been a fan of Franchesca's for many years and even though I've struggle to fight that "strong black woman/person" notion even in my own life, it's still so sobering to see someone like Franchesca talk so openly about how this type of racialized harassment has hurt her and affected her. I think we really try to focus on immiediately taking actionable changes and sometimes we forget to take a moment and hold space for how much we've been hurt. I know this wasn't the main takeaway of the video, but it was something I really loved seeing, as it was ignored or glossed over in other conversations on this topic.
I used to watch idubbz when he was ultra libertarian nword slinging and bought into the ideas like "its all ok or none is" as a result of my sheltered shitty upbringing and it feels like he is changing for the better since meeting his wife and as I've grown as a person and changing for the better but I'm also in the same position as the bluesky slur usernames ordeal that its not for me to accept it. I will set myself aside and listen to the perspective of those genuinely hurt. Ive come out as trans and self hate was definitely part of how I got bought in, and my perceived mirrored growth leaves me very biased.
@aaronbuss8361 yea, I'm definitely not of that mindset anymore, and even when I was I still wasn't a slur user but just bought into the ideas about them "just being words" and upset/triggered = owned style content when I was like 16, it's not like saying the nword was ever okay but more that you can't grasp its power and hate it invokes when you are from an all white circle. American education is so cooked that lots of people in racist little backwater villages like mine leave school thinking that racism is over he had a dream Civil rights act happened blah blah hand waiving and now they're still crying about racism not knowing or ever being shown the systemic levels and avenues that racism is still used to keep a stranglehold on the black communities in this country and even globally with insane resource extraction and exploitation both here in the Imperial core and abroad. Like not having any black friends or first hand experience seeing and knowing black people leads to just believing the crazy stereotypes from media 🥴
Really excited to actually get to the core steps in "what happens now?" I've been a huge Francesca fan (since the Nightly Show) and although I think Ian is sincere, I've been wondering ever since his video how he can actually "undo" any of it. The scale is unfathomable and I can't think of even some easy ways to try and fix it.
No matter how insurmountable, the important thing is for him to keep taking steps forward. As they say, the way to eat an elephant is through one bite at a time.
White guy living in the heart of Europe here. Having immigrant roots in an otherwise very racially homogeneous country, I've had to deal with a consistent, low-grade level of racism my entire life. In no way is this me saying that my experience as a white man is significantly comparable in scope. I don't have to worry about getting shot for instance, just for how I look. A general state of affairs applicable for most of Europe atm, but whatever. However, it's this personal history coupled with very many (variously) interesting conversations with people of all walks of life (rehab brings people from every kind of background together, believe me). These have provided me with enough perspective and capacity for empathy that I find it hard to swallow the fact that so many of us (humans, in general) harbour so much hate, anger, fear and loneliness thanks to our... Setup. So much avoidable pain just so that we can send an ugly electric car into space... Yuck. Something something something, history, not learning, doom. I hate the feeling that I'm rambling, so I'll stop here with a massive thank you for the work you do. More insight & understanding = More productive discourse. People tend to dig into their own opinions when a conversation goes confrontational/heated. Thanks also for the chance to learn and grow, keep up the good work.
He's grown out of his errooneous ways, supposedly. The reason iDubbz was used as a pretext is because he was the one assholes could latch on to as having credibility.
@@rajasmasala I heard he’s changed but at the end of the day all I remember is ppl calling me the n word and using him as justification that’s all I’m saying😂 some people might be older so they weren’t in school during that time but here in Canada it was bad😭
@@4pfcarti792 Yeah I know, it sucks. He really contributed in a toxic way, and he would probably still be toxic despite the impact from meeting trans fans if his porn star gf hadn't been harrassd very badly by his community.
@@rajasmasala yea I hate that these people have to have a wake up moment to be normal decent human beings and then we have to praise them for that because most people don’t have that wake up moment😂 it’s crazy to me tbh
Kat Blaque's reaction video to his apology was indeed one of the best. She has come so far politically and in maturity. She has always been a pleasure to watch and I hope more people check her content!!!
yeah i'm with Franchesca on this one. UA-cam gives yt people so much power and when they abuse it the domino effect of bigotry it creates is too much for any individual to ever truly atone for.
@@loadishstonein order for restorative justice to work, the victim has to set the terms. That is literally how accountability processes work in the real world.
a bit of the disconnect here revolving ian only directly apologizing to tana- his apology is more about being an overall mean-spirited content, and not necessarily solely about his n word usage. for better or worse, he seems to be focusing on the fact that his content cop on her brought a confrontation into the real world. ruminating on the consequences of that event over the years was probably his "come to jesus" moment
I’m at a cross roads here. Ig my question is if this not a good apology what does one look like? What is enough to atone for the sins of past racist behavior? Until we can set that standard and tell ppl what we expect, it’s hard to hear ppl nitpick where a person is inadequate. Is the solution jus for ever prior bigot to leave that platform bc that seems silly to me
I just clicked on his channel, and at least on mobile, the first video on the fourth playlist on his home page is a video mocking jinx for not doing a boxing match with him where he uses the n-word in the description. I hope after this conversation that he _does_ go back through his old vieos to remove or at least contextualize them with his current perspective. It's just kind of shocking that he still prominently displays videos with slurs on his channel after his apology and this conversation.
This was the perfect channel for the conversation. Thanks especially for talking with Francesca, whose perspective is really helpful. She's been a content creator for so long, on a variety of platforms.
One of the weirdest parts of this whole situation was the exact people you think would get SO butthurt about that whole thing did indeed get VERY weird about. The "Thequarterings" of the world in particular that whole "Everything i dont like is woke" Creators. Like the idea of someone owning up to bad things in their past is somehow....the actual bad thing? Like how?
This is awesome, had a very different opinion before this video and this is a big part of slowly changing my mind as far as forgiving yt ppl that have "gone there"
as a long time fan of ian, and also someone who never called someonen racial slurs, even work in antiracial organisations and in left/progressive political events and parties, unions, petitions etc, i just wanted to give my view on all this. i interpreted his use of the slurs as comedic relief and believed that in that context it is not fine for me personally but i can understand what he would achieve with that. i was hoping that i would take the power this word has but i am not living the states and it was never visible to his audiance what it actually caused. sadly more harm. one in his unboxing video he talked about it, receiving a racist book from his fans who thought it would be funny, probably or even ian would like it, but he smaked it and burned that shit. so that was for me reason enough to believe, that he is not a racist. i still believe that he wasnt racist, but careless. and all the thing that was said in the video. so i gave him a pass and was wrong. but keep in mind he start was not like that at all. and i stayed. which i should have not done. i am glad this conversations happening and that he changed and want to be better.
Don’t know this guy’s content outside of this video but he did SEEM introspective about it. That counts for something, however I whole-heartedly agree that an apology can’t mitigate the harm that has been done. No one should fear for their safety because some dude made a UA-cam video.
I think this is a great conversation on all sides. I do find it weird that the only person Franchesca says that took any real responsibility was Jenna Marbles. It sounds like the only way to take responsibility is to stop making content. And even then Franchesca said she also probably did it because she was burnt out. Implying that she still doesn’t believe she was being sincere. Franchesca doesn’t need to accept anyone’s apology. She’s dealt with plenty of bullshit. But the way she worded that section made it seem like she isn’t interested in people learning from and apologizing for their past. I get annoyed when people say stuff like that is the bare minimum, when the bare minimum is staying in there bubble, never being introspective, and when faced with criticism doubling down.
Great work! I don’t know much about a lot these UA-camrs, but I’m enjoying the interviews and discussions. Where can we see the full interview with Francesca?
i hope your platform really grows on speaking with people who say "ive lerned and done better". I love your content, been a follower since you rolled white dude on Rising. so glad you have a youtube.
White supremacy is the default position of a person in the western world. That’s why people rejecting it has caused a whole reactionary backlash against people who recognize that fact (“wokes”)
@@AnonCitizenxxYou're commenting on literally everyone's comments. Get a life and stop whining that Ian isn't like you and is ashamed of ever being like you. You're embarrassing to him.
I think Olay raised a great point about public perception and how he directly destroyed multiple marginalized creators livelihoods they had built up through long periods of time and effort. I would like to add that he also did this semi-frequently to many people's attempts at even making one. Honestly, to see him not really talk about his Kickstarter hate videos in which he also did this sort of thing directly to smaller platformed individuals - (Especially marginalized people and frequently mocked them openly, frankly in a way I would say leaves the Kickstarter premise as nothing more than a thin veil to make hateful bigoted content, at least just as much as the content cops if not more so in some cases.) - is a bit upsetting, considering he also ran people offline or ruined their potential success in a way that they were never really heard from again and never had a chance after his fanbase would harass them endlessly. I can imagine that situation being quite an ordeal to recover from in anyone's case, and though I doubt they would be recognized irl today and harassed on the street as a result of those videos, the simple idea they could have been discouraged in some way from trying to make something of themselves is a very sad thought. Doubly so for marginalized people who may have had very few avenues or been trying to do anything to help themselves in an unfavorable living situation. It is definitely something he should think about further exploring especially considering he could take further accountability and action/talk further on this at any time. To see him tread back on more of his previous videos and directly speak out against them more specifically may start to help the public's view of those individuals retrospectively, ("Yeah, but 'x' video was still deserved because 'x'." while totally missing the point of all of this,) or start to break down the environment of hate he has cultivated even outside of his audience. Agreeing to this video is definitely a step forwards at least.
I had to re-check the date on this after I started watching because I know it was a topic that came up while he was promoting Creator Clash and that I've seen Anisa speak to at length, so it was really disappointing to see him skirting direct questions and fumbling to answer things like paying reparations to the creators he harmed out of the profits he made off of those specific videos. There shouldn't have been any hesitation to receive that feedback and agree to it on the spot when that money is already in the bank tenfold, first from racism and misogyny, and now because he's catering to "the left." So much of the content creator space is still inhabited by men who made names for themselves during Gamergate and only "pivoted" when it affected their bag. Now they get to go on Hasanabi et al, effectively whitewashing their past without meaningful apology to a new generation of viewers who didn't experience it to know how much it still permeates internet culture, while marginalized creators continue to vanish. Regardless, this is an important topic that a lot of folks intentionally gloss over or treat with undeserved delicacy because they don't actually care about whether someone is sincere, especially if they can use them to boost their own platforms, so thank you.
Olayemi, this video is something I never felt like hope for actual atonement for people. I needed this in a way that wasn’t sugarcoating it but as prescribing actual action. You’re an amazing interviewer.
Thanks for bringing ian on to talk and being more than fair with him. I know he felt really good about the conversation and talked about it for days after. This was a really nice watch and I enjoyed the back and forth with Francesca. I think this is a helpful convo for just base understanding of why the world is the way that it is and I hope more people can be honest and open in the future so we can get to a better place. We really appreciate you and I admire you.
💗thank you Anisa! I appreciate you both being so open and receptive, It was a great conversation!
@@olurinattiOlay, this was amazing. I didn’t even know who idubz was but this seems sincere. I hope that he follows through! 💯
@@mephistophelesghost6712 maybe thats all you heard as a weak person.
but anyone who is strong heard the subtext and know that "even if no one accepts my apology. I will still always do the right thing."
You are more spinless than you will ever know right now, but there is always tomorrow.
@@mephistophelesghost6712 me before years of therapy
@@mephistophelesghost6712lmao White supremacist triggered
I BEEN WAITINGGGGGG 🎶🎵
IT FINALLY REACH!! 🙌🏾
Olayemi face card never declines. Skin glowing.
🥹🥹🥰
I'm glad to see iDubbbz being a guest. He's usually the puppetmaster in these situations.
Something Franchessca said really made me think about the failure of new atheism and the broader skepticism movement that came from that: They often came from a critical perspective and gave nothing more than "discard faith and trust science," which isn't necessarily bad but also far from good enough. Anyway, great discussion so far! Back to watching...
They really leaned hard into the "facts don't care about your feelings" mindset and it is no wonder that so many became right wing reactionaries.
Belief it or not is a newer atheist channel that is heavily focused on empathy. They aren't about debunking things. They are about looking at how the actions and messaging of the church affects people.
@@5Amigos32 Yeah, I agree with you there. I think the reason "bread tube" never would amount to anything is related. The folks involved rejected the label and stuck to themselves. "Cornbread tube" intrinsically understands the need for empathy and cooperation. I've been trying to find similarities between new atheism, skepticism and bread tube. All things I've been interested in, and all things that seemed to have failed in different ways for similar reasons.
This was a rough listen......like not being around black people is no excuse for what he did/said hard stop. We as a community are......if he want's to do the work and be a better man/person then he needs to do the work absent of black people stamping him for approval and allowing him the co-sign. What he did and the environment he created are way more damaging and intentionally destructive. For me these people who have spent time being one way are not and should not be allowed to get a co-sign from us. F him. His apology does nothing for her fear nothing for her safety and he knew what he was doing. He said he was open to an apology no he needs to he must apologize. I am familiar with you Ms.Olurin and am new to your content, you're a great interviewer, keep it up and I look forward to seeing more content from you.
I totally agree with you! This is my theory: I still don’t think he has any real compassion or understanding for Black people. I think he just got with a liberal woman and the tides of the internet started turning and as he admitted himself he started to become “embarrassed” for his past. The circles he was starting to be involved in were starting to look at him funny.
I really think he cares more about being accepted by liberal white people which has now become his circle due to his wife and his new endeavors. He even says himself he has no Black friends…. How tf?! For someone as worldly and exposed to different circles as him, that’s a conscious choice.
I don’t really think he really understands or deeply cares about how he affected Black people and Black *kids* no less!
Thank you this is my sentiment exactly and trolls in here defending him saying that we are angry. Most perceptive black people see through the BS and feel very mush like Francesca. This is all about money and being marketable to forever make. money. He only changes when it got really real. I have not doubt he harbors those same racist feelings about black people. People talk a good game without any actions
I’d rather have a reformed bigot than an unchanged bigot.
Though don't forget the likes of ShoeOnHead who never changed, they were still grifting fascists.
Whenever it starts being profitable to "reform" you're going to get a lot of fakes like that.
Exactly
wtf is a "reformed bigot" if they're reformed then they're not a bigot. What an essentialist take.
Even worse, someone who converts to bigotry.
@@machsimillian14 so no reform?
This gon be interesting.
Big ups to Olay and Ethan for putting this out!
I will say the transition from Franchesca to the iDubbz interview was jarring. We went from establishing that he did the bare minimum without addressing specific black people and mentioned a white woman. Which signals he doesn’t actually understand (yet) the impact of his work.
Then we get a warm welcome and appreciation that he’d even talk to you. I think that part could have been cut out because this feels like Black people have to “kiss the ring” to be able to rightfully challenge white people for the bare minimum.
I think overall this interview was great and this isn’t about you but reminds me how the “boldness” of white people when facing racism can deter how we talk to them to their face. I know you gave a disclaimer about balancing being nice but this was way to nice lol.
Hopefully he sees that Franchesca said him going on Tana’s platform would be them gaining capital from his apology. Which is sick.
iDubbz and anyone who has done harmful behavior should know that conversations can be productive without them comforted with hearing appreciation for the bare minimum.
I am also sure many things said to him come from manners and greeting any guest on your platform. But as a fellow creator, I know things can be left out post production.
I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy that transition or would’ve liked me to exclude some of the interview for your stated reasons, I chose to show my audience the entire conversation, including me thanking someone for agreeing to an uncomfortable interview that they didn’t have to do.
@@olurinatti you do not have to apologize and maybe I missed the context as well. Was Franchesca’s interview in full? Either way I used “I” statements so I do not speak for others but I’m just saying the severity fell off during that transition and then was further exaggerated through the video for something (imo) he has to be doing given the intro you and Franchesca set up very well.
One thing I'd like to point out about the potential of incentivizing bigotry here is that historically speaking, going from bigoted "edgy" humor to left-wing (regardless of how earnest a change it is) isn't really a successful grift. It usually means having to find a new audience while contending with an old one that hates you.
Where on the flip side, the whole "why I left the left" thing works because those people A: never actually were left wing, and B: are usually getting paid directly to say what they say.
Very important point that gets convoluted by all of the reactionaries whining about George Soros. The real money is on the other side. But bc Hasan exists then every leftist creator is a champagne socialist millionaire grifter which is wholly unserious but effective.
I think Ian should tally up all the money he made on ads from his videos and donate that amount lmao
Although many creators going right to left have already made money and reinvested it, so it’s not about the money it’s about safety. The right and far right wing have been called out for inciting real life events, therefore many make money and leave.
I do think that in these situations people can mistake moving left from the far right with becoming a leftist though. Like how a colourblind centrist can seem progressive compared to a white supremacist. People will be applauded for adopting the most basic progressive ideas and people say it’s genuine because far right content is more profitable when there’s also a big market for more centrist, center-left ideas. What really matters is having an ideological backbone based in leftist theory instead of vaguely gesturing at being a leftist, the latter doesn’t require people to fully dismantle and replace the way of thinking that led them to the right.
I say this as a general warning, I don’t follow idubbs closely enough to know if he’s a true leftist and unless he's switching to discussing leftism I think it would take knowing him personally to know for sure. I just wouldn’t say it can’t be a successful grift.
@@AnonCitizenxxThis to me sounds good on paper, like yeah why not donate all the money you made from the bigoted content and donate it, but for some reason tho to me it does not feel genuine enough. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me, but donating that feels like you are just throwing money at a problem and hoping for the best…..but what do I know 🙃
This is a really good articulation of what restorative justice looks like, especially for those who have never heard of the concept as it relates to the carceral system. You should apologize even when the victim is not ready to forgive. There should be an open dialogue about actions toward reconciliation and restoration. Thank you for mediating this dialogue Olay, and please take care 🤗
Couldn’t have said it better. This video really highlights your your stance as a abolitionist. People grow best when you let them speak and nudge them in the right direction. I’m here for the impact, and I hope he continues to do the work. He’s been given the room and the resources.
Great video, especially loved hearing from Francesca! I was a big fan of her back in the day and was always sad that she stopped making videos. I wasn't even aware of the intense harassment against her, that's so sad to hear.
Sidenote, I'd absolutely love if you had a conversation or collab with Kat Blaque. Maybe not even about this topic, I'd just love to see you two chat together lol
The Jink clip is so great because people keep saying “idubbz content holds up without the slurs”…..but if you remove the slurs he’s mocking black culture/mannerisms? And I think that’s exactly why idubbz apology hits hard for the racists because he was in a way taking the hood off of microaggressions by going all in and saying the quiet part out loud
Can say I didn’t see this one coming. I’m interested all the same tho
You were the perfect person to have done this. Your way of communicating and reaching people like this is unmatched
A yt people whisperer bahahahahaha, that’s great. I love it. She can whisper to me anytime 😂😂
Yeah, hopefully this is the beginning of a series of conversations like this between iDubbbz and black content creators that helps him feel less anxious about taking a step towards being a positive force in the youtube community. The harm he did is done and as with reparations the interest on the debt is more than he alone can pay, but I think from my perspective there are two options. He can either decide that he doesn't deserve the platform because of what he did or he can decide to do something positive with it. I prefer the latter approach as these kinds of conversations are ones that should be had.
Thank heavens he finally understood that he owes financial recompense lol
Olay, you constantly bring up things i never would’ve thought of and/or put into words why something feels wrong in a way that makes me a permanent subscriber. It keeps my brain working and i love it!!
As a recovering bigot myself this convo is invaluable for me. Thank you.
Ik this is serious but recovering bigot is hilarious to me. Not making fun of u
You will never find a woman to mind break you as bad as Ian's wife lmao
@@AnonCitizenxxwe get it, you badly wish someone cared about you enough to help you recover from your bigotry but no one does
@@DylonCorpNot even they themselves, that’s literally all it takes, that’s the only thing it takes really.
@@DylonCorp I think the idea of the "soft touch of a woman can stop someone being a racist" is pretty fucked up not gonna lie.
I’m like a minute in and I can already tell this is going to be goated video.
I hope IDubbz reads some of these comments. In the chance he does, I hope he reads this. I had a friend in my childhood name Jake. He was a hilarious kid and we had bountiful amounts of fun together. Come 6th grade was the pipeline UA-cam era and he slowly morphed into someone who bought into the rhetoric being hateful and ignorant. In 8th grade in an argument, I heard the N-Word used and I haven't talked to him since. I've thought and wished the best for him no matter how much I wanted to hate. He was just an impressionable kid. My father and mother telling me to hate. My friends telling me to hate. But I couldn't. It is never easy being the bigger person, that's why so few of them we meet in our lives. I want to reach out but I fear that same space he resides in still is flourishing on the internet. IDubbz, you ruined my childhood best friend relationship. If capitalism is to continue, black people will continue to be ignored. You have an opportunity of a lifetime, don't depend on capitalist organizations to aid your goal of reconstructing your image and message. Thank you for coming and talking to a black person who is educated and informed and won't hold back. We could really use you help in this fight against racism. I'd love to see Jake again. I'd love to tell him how much I enjoyed our times together. I'm sure there are countless people in my position as well.
Lmaoo
very much so looking forward to this one
Okay im not one to “accept apologies” from celebrities/influencers but this definitely allows me to have some respect idubbbz. He was willing to be interviewed by the Queen herself and open to the criticism and conversations being had!! Props to you all for your insights.
The crossover I never knew I needed
I'd honestly have expected to see NFKRZ here before I'd have ever expected iDubbbz 😂 Especially for this particular topic. I am fascinated to see how this conversation plays out.
Why?? NFKRZ never really talks openly like idubbbz did about politics. I know he is more left leaning (he even said it). But he doesn't really engage in it and doesn't have controversy with the right-wing as idubbbz does.
nothing more annoying to me as a russian that nfkrz is most well know ru creator for eng speakers. dude couldn’t be more beige and bland and liberal western-centric with his politics lmao hope he never appears here
@@andshescallingacab4346 exacly
I think I got recommended this after eatching a few leftist mafia clips, having heard about it through Majority Report. Just wanted to say I loved this conversation over all, but one thing I really appreciate how at several times the discussion led to places where there aren't quick or definitive answers or resolutions, and that this is viewed as okay and allowed.
Like, what can idubbz do to make things up to and aplogize to the people he hurt? Well here's some ideas, but at the same time, those ideas agent for everyone, and many people may never forgive him. But that's okay. And it's important for people to realize that and get that message. Sometimes all you can do is do your best and be the best you can, and then live with the pain or uncertainty or regret that remains.
And other examples too. But basically yeah, conversations don't always end in a beautoful resolution wrapped in a bow where everyone is happy. They are often ongoing and sometimes eternal. And it's great for me at least to see that message here is all.
I'm excited to explore more of your content going forward.
I hate that I’m seeing this video so late!! The youtube algorithm is so trash sometimes 😭😭 this video is gold.
Olay is so pretty OMG 😮💨 also was NOT expecting this Collab lmao
Awww shucks!
banger. the comeback from bigotry tour has commenced for the eggshell community
I remember watching the content cop videos and I remember parroting some of the racist talking points in those videos ("either its all okay or none of its okay" 🤦♀). And I remember going through life with black people who would be my friends at first and then slowly distance themselves cause I was fucking racist. I didn't know why it kept happening. I didn't think I was racist at the time. Its easy to think you're not racist when the rest of the dominator culture in society is as racist as you.
Then a few years ago I almost lost everything due to financial issues, and I had an epiphany about class. (I've always been poor but never THAT close to being on the streets.) That epiphany made me reevaluate everything I knew. My previous thoughts on class, race, gender, etc were suddenly incompatible with the reality of the world I saw. I saw what it was like to live without a safety net and I realized that if it could happen to me it was definitely happening to other people. I started to think about who would fall through the cracks. I started to think about how the society we live in must have an underclass to function. I thought about who that underclass in America IS and what would happen to them if they didn't make it like I did.
The nature of being racist while thinking you aren't is that you cannot know all the people you've hurt. It is the nature of willful blindness while thinking you have on glasses. I cannot solve racism, but the solution I've found I can do everyday as an individual is to not be a caltrop in the step of black people. Being marginalized in the USA is death by a thousand papercuts and the least I can do is not be the paper.
Yeah I remember I was taking a college course at one point and I was friends with a white dude for a bit and it was relatively going alright, had similar interests n all but then he begun spouting a bunch of questionable, if not downright hateful stuff like how he was boasting about the genocide of the Native Americans as if it was a good thing or talking about slavery as if it's nothing without taking into consideration my feelings on the matter. So yeah I eventually distanced myself from him too after snapping at him one time. Maybe he'll go into a similar situation as you or maybe he'll just stay in his oblivious ignorance.
You can also start by countering it if you see it, even if it's casual otherwise saying "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle" you can actually practice it and influence your own community rather than expect us to do the same work we've been doing for generations.
A lot of problems in the world would disappear if we talked to each other instead of about each other.
Thanks for conducting these interviews Olay, we really needed to hear these perspectives! Truthfully, I think the best thing he can do is to start cutting checks for the creators he directly impacted, especially those he ran off the platform. I don’t care for the niceties and I hate when yt ppl pity themselves. Good on him for taking accountability but that’s the bare minimum. Open ur purse😭
Important and necessary work. Thank you, Olay! 😍
WOW - if you ever get tired of UA-cam you can def be a PR advisor. This was a terrific vid.
this is an insane crossover
Ooo I am intrigued. Hadn’t even heard of this dude until his apology but I’ve been a fan of Franchesca (Chescaleigh) from jump and I gotta say, I feel her frustration on this one. But I also get that people should be allowed to grow and make amends for their wrongs. I’m very curious how that dynamic will play out here
@@Stamara2011Way more money to be made by continuing being a reactionary than alienating that audience
@Stamara2011 yea the problem here is idubbz is not taking the beneficial route, if he wanted more money. The money for grifting is all on the reactionary side. He actually lost something like 50k on his Creator Clash event.
@@Stamara2011I am kind of confused about the point of taking a stance against someone when they are clearly changing their ways. Like you don't have to forgive them or like them or w/e but this is just counter productive at the very minimum.
@@Stamara2011this is just a dumbass approach to this. first of all: you don't know this at all, lol. are you his accountant? second of all, why would that matter? is he not sufficiently sorry until he's destitute and unable to do anything useful to make amends for the massive harm he caused? third of all, the left isn't where you go to grift lmao. if dude wanted to grift he could have stayed on the right, saying slurs and taking fracking billionaire money to say climate change is fake. like I genuinely do not understand where you are coming from. you don't gotta forgive him but the approach of saying he's a "left wing millionaire grifter" is a.) patently and visibly untrue and b.) counterproductive. do we not want people to change? Christ.
@Stamara2011 no my point stands you're just big mad. Changing the topic doesn't mean you made a good argument. You didnt.
I was really waiting for him to say "you're right, I didn't think of it that way" - glad he got at least partway there by the end.
This is so refreshing to see. As a black person who grew up skating (still to this day) I have SO many white friends who used to, and in some ways still do subscribe to a more “edgy” approach to humor - and hearing you say you went to a boarding school where you were the only black person related to me so much, because I feel like when you’ve been in those situations, it’s a BIT easier to come from a place of empathy in these conversations. While at the same time being educational and framing things in a way that makes it “palatable” to a person who is or has been groomed into a white supremacist mindset.
Unfortunate that that’s what it takes to make folks understand, but it’s so important to have these conversations. So props to both you and Idubbz for being civil, normal fucking people and talking things out in a mature understanding way. I say all that to say, I never knew anything about idubbz until the apology video, and I never knew anything about this channel until this video, so you earned a sub. Shout out to the algorithm, been watching too many FD videos I guess 😂
What an incredible convo. And i love that the grievances and reservations Franchesska had were BEFORE the Idubbz interview. Hear HER first, a person affected by that era of youtube and his videos, then talk to him.
I hope we can all move forward together and create a better world.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't know how to feel about it. I peg these creators in my mind as "unsafe" and them simply saying they've changed isn't enough. Forgiveness is earned, and unfortunately, these creators have done ages of damage for me to simply take them at their word.
I really want your channel to grow. You are one of the best on UA-cam.
Awesome vid really appreciate the way you break these situations down and express some of the genuine pain that comes form being a group without a voice having the small voice they can have stripped away, while also allowing an avenue for someone to try to make penance by filling the world with good and doing the opposite of the actions done to damage the world in the past I think Ethan does genuinely have remorse and a better perspective but there will always be a small animosity with how as someone white in the space it is alot easier to become established do dirty and switch up without much recompense and then praise them for making it to the other side. Thanks for your content and giving a resource that looks like me to aspire toward
What you said about him apologizing to Black people in that video - I had no idea he'd attacked Black individual creators. I avoided the dude's channel because i knew he was a racist at the time, and i avoided his apology because i don't accept words at this point. He and all the people who think he did a nice apology need to accept that he's still a racist until he actually WORKS to make amends.
He was never racist
What leads me to believe Idubbz is sincere is he wasnt getting cancelled or anything. As best I can tell, his apology is in part a reaction to his fans annoyed he decided to grow up to begin with.
It was a response to his fans targeting his wife online. Whenever he would do anything online, his fans would start harrassing her.
@berickslime6718 yeah I didn't get intl details. But that's still kinda my point. His motivation seems to be less shitty and to encourage less shittiness. I don't think there's any financial benefit in it for him. Especially since he de-listed so much of his stuff.
I dont "forgive" former racist content creators but I want to learn more about, why they go down that path. So, I'm here for the case studies.
Edit: representation does matter. And segregation + uncritical history classes (book banning, etc.) do perpetuate racism. Insularisation and ignorance both create racist and heinous folks.
Just started watching but my instinctive answer is because its easy for them to be Pro-White Supremacy (I used that instead of "racist" because it provided less wiggle room) in our culture than not. It's like the Black Face thing...everyone who does it goes through the same arc;
-Gets attention trying to be shocking
-claims it was a joke, doesn't understand the history or know why you're upset
-realizes they did something shitty
-apologies (this last one tends to be optional)
The reality is that they knew and didn't care.
The most charitable interpretation of any of this is that they want attention and because it doesn't affect THEIR lives, they think its "harmless" or they just don't care about who they are hurting until the consequences are too big to ignore.
I doubt some of them, like iDubbbz WERE deeply racist to begin with, hence, his disavowing what he previously did (not that it matters because its still a shitty thing to do).
Our culture allows and promotes this type of thinking...
Stay mad then.
@@Moist_Slurm?
@@Moist_Slurm Where did I say, I was "mad"?!
🤨
@@Moist_Slurm Sounds like *you're* mad honestly. You realize somebody doesn't have to accept an apology right?
You suggested to Ian that he bring black platforms up, and he said that it was a good idea and that he would take your advice. I'm curious if he actually did take your advice. It's hard to see his video and the conversations he has had with you and other people as anything other than a way to heal himself, to face his demons. I don't know if that is necessarily an issue, it's certainly not my place to make that judgment.
First off, I am definitely one of the people that Ian's platform brought here lmao. I'm so glad he was able to sit down with someone like yourself to talk about the actual impact of his actions on black people. You bringing up Jinx and talking to Francesca put into perspective some of the real issues with his previous content to me. He really did destroy a black man's career and direct a hate mob for no good reason at a black woman. Like that's pretty unforgivable.
I was a big fan of idubbz back in the day and was a fuckin asshole who used slurs for "edgy comedy." It stems from a lack of love. There's a shame associated with loving people as a cis man in a toxicly masculine culture and it seemed like Ian wised up to change. As someone who had to walk a similar path to Ian's, I'm glad he really seems to listen and learn like we all should.
Thanks for having Ian on and having a frank convo about this. You gained a sub out of me happily ❤
Olayami, I understand your reasoning for taking a break from LM, I know you need time to recharge and keep your mental healthy. That being said, I miss you so very much, and I look for any opportunity to find your presence. I Love You Forever, My Queen
🥹💚💜
As a white guy i used to watch idubz in highschool and thought he was funny but i was also raised as an antisemitic flat earther which i didnt break out of till after highschool lol
Christ! Congratulations, dude you escaped a black hole tbh
This is such a good video!! Olu u are truly a maverick!
Olay here is giving a master class in how to meet someone where they are at without holding back on who you are and what you're about when it comes to addressing harm.
The message I'm left with is that this guy built a platform off of hate. And no matter where he goes with that now, he still has that clout and the ability to open doors that come with it. And a lot of the specific people he punched down on are not doing so hot today. I hope we can keep this reality at the center of conversations like this moving forward. And let #reparations continue to be a part of that conversation.
I'm a long time fan of Franchesca. New to breadtube and new to this channel. Never heard of that white guy before. Obviously Olayemi has a new subscriber now. ✅
I must be really out of touch I dont know any of these people. Might be better for me to stay out this particular rabbit hole. It’s sound like there’s nothing new under the sun..
Can an argument be made that some of them are actually really bigots, and only pivot because their platforms grow large enough that their bigotry has a negative impact on their growth so they look to appeal to a larger audience by backpedaling their previously made comments, or positions?
Great exploration…hope he keeps pushing
Franchesca taking time fighting strike misinformation and on strike and still took time for this. What a schedule and truly one of the best media figures we’ve been blessed with.
absolutely hilarious because she just spread misinformation by mixing up Idubbbz and Chris Ray Gun
@@JACKELincorporated ...and she's a massive racist.
Wow, you did such an amazing job with this! Found you through Jarvis and I’m so glad I did because you’re brilliant!
I love this. Olayemi is the got damn best.
Thank you.
Edited: Subscribed
Society
As a whyt person I’m really underwhelmed with the state of interracial relations at the moment; I feel like open, thoughtful, compassionate conversations are incredibly sparse recently because of the extreme polarity between the left and right, and the fears leftists have to misstep. I’ve been feeling more and more let down by humanity in general recently, ever since I learned that being gifted means more than just being a little smart. I used to think I could teach anyone to be compassionate if I just talked to them for long enough, but now I realize that maybe I’m just too different and I have to make peace with the shittiness. This video was a huge relief for me, stepping into a space with a real discussion happening instead of simplified reactionary arguments. I desperately wish more people were like everyone in this video. You and Idubbz have both got a subscription from me. I never watched him back in the day but I know he was extremely famous at some point- but who knows, maybe I’ll get the chance to bring him a little further left at some point, lol.
(Oh, and side note- I was so confused by him saying ‘I didn’t grow up around black people, I grew up in southern California’- what?? You gotta be more specific than SoCal for that to make any sense lmao)
Great Conversation, well done for both parties coming together to address it. really appreciate this, the insight from your perspective and willingness to talk it through. much respect!
"Its always edge till they in a corner..."
Sorry isn't even not enough, its the wrong thing entirely. You don't get to spit out a video - which is your career anyway - saying its all over and you're moving on and you've changed etc. That is not for you to decide. You haven't changed if people don't even trust that you have. These 'creators' should go away, as in, go offline, do the work, give-up some time and money and comfort and repent. I'm sorry, thats just how I see it. If you don't feel some discomfort or pain, then you won't remember or appreciate the lesson. Not to mention, that you need to make it up to the people you've harmed IN PRIVATE and on THIER TERMS.
Thank you!!! Adopted into a white family and have to deal with shit like this but it’s my family and you’ve given me so much a framework of how to stand up for myself and my real parents and family and black lives cuz of course the anti blackness is there with now white effort to do better
Sending you love and support. You deserve the best!
💜
I'm glad you're staying strong, it must have been hard.
You made some really interesting points this was a great video and I’m glad it got directly to idubbz so maybe there can be some more material action. Anyways just really good
The real enemy is the daily wire.
@@whatupcuz3688 How is criticizing the Daily Wire anti-Semitic...? The Daily Wire is itself anti-Semitic
you are such a ray of sunshine, olay. this was so good to see. ian doesnt deserve everyones forgiveness but that should never be the expectation of sincere apologies, and this highlighted that so well. wishing ian and the people hes hurt growth and love in their lives ❤
I really really appreacite the space for conversation you've created with this video. I've been a fan of Franchesca's for many years and even though I've struggle to fight that "strong black woman/person" notion even in my own life, it's still so sobering to see someone like Franchesca talk so openly about how this type of racialized harassment has hurt her and affected her. I think we really try to focus on immiediately taking actionable changes and sometimes we forget to take a moment and hold space for how much we've been hurt. I know this wasn't the main takeaway of the video, but it was something I really loved seeing, as it was ignored or glossed over in other conversations on this topic.
Idubbz ? Haven't heard that name in a long time and I certainly didn't expect him to be involved in this kind of content
I used to watch idubbz when he was ultra libertarian nword slinging and bought into the ideas like "its all ok or none is" as a result of my sheltered shitty upbringing and it feels like he is changing for the better since meeting his wife and as I've grown as a person and changing for the better but I'm also in the same position as the bluesky slur usernames ordeal that its not for me to accept it. I will set myself aside and listen to the perspective of those genuinely hurt. Ive come out as trans and self hate was definitely part of how I got bought in, and my perceived mirrored growth leaves me very biased.
@aaronbuss8361 yea, I'm definitely not of that mindset anymore, and even when I was I still wasn't a slur user but just bought into the ideas about them "just being words" and upset/triggered = owned style content when I was like 16, it's not like saying the nword was ever okay but more that you can't grasp its power and hate it invokes when you are from an all white circle. American education is so cooked that lots of people in racist little backwater villages like mine leave school thinking that racism is over he had a dream Civil rights act happened blah blah hand waiving and now they're still crying about racism not knowing or ever being shown the systemic levels and avenues that racism is still used to keep a stranglehold on the black communities in this country and even globally with insane resource extraction and exploitation both here in the Imperial core and abroad. Like not having any black friends or first hand experience seeing and knowing black people leads to just believing the crazy stereotypes from media 🥴
Really excited to actually get to the core steps in "what happens now?" I've been a huge Francesca fan (since the Nightly Show) and although I think Ian is sincere, I've been wondering ever since his video how he can actually "undo" any of it. The scale is unfathomable and I can't think of even some easy ways to try and fix it.
He could donate the money he made off that drama, he could do actual work with affected communities.
No matter how insurmountable, the important thing is for him to keep taking steps forward. As they say, the way to eat an elephant is through one bite at a time.
White guy living in the heart of Europe here. Having immigrant roots in an otherwise very racially homogeneous country, I've had to deal with a consistent, low-grade level of racism my entire life.
In no way is this me saying that my experience as a white man is significantly comparable in scope. I don't have to worry about getting shot for instance, just for how I look. A general state of affairs applicable for most of Europe atm, but whatever.
However, it's this personal history coupled with very many (variously) interesting conversations with people of all walks of life (rehab brings people from every kind of background together, believe me).
These have provided me with enough perspective and capacity for empathy that I find it hard to swallow the fact that so many of us (humans, in general) harbour so much hate, anger, fear and loneliness thanks to our... Setup.
So much avoidable pain just so that we can send an ugly electric car into space... Yuck.
Something something something, history, not learning, doom.
I hate the feeling that I'm rambling, so I'll stop here with a massive thank you for the work you do.
More insight & understanding = More productive discourse.
People tend to dig into their own opinions when a conversation goes confrontational/heated.
Thanks also for the chance to learn and grow, keep up the good work.
This was amazing 🤩
This is such a wonderful dialogue. I hope Franchesca Ramsey gets peace and that Ian stays on this path. Wonderful as always Olayemi!
nooo this man ruined my highschool life😭 he’s everywhere again I can’t get awayyyy😂😂😂
He's grown out of his errooneous ways, supposedly. The reason iDubbz was used as a pretext is because he was the one assholes could latch on to as having credibility.
@@rajasmasala I heard he’s changed but at the end of the day all I remember is ppl calling me the n word and using him as justification that’s all I’m saying😂 some people might be older so they weren’t in school during that time but here in Canada it was bad😭
@@4pfcarti792 Yeah I know, it sucks. He really contributed in a toxic way, and he would probably still be toxic despite the impact from meeting trans fans if his porn star gf hadn't been harrassd very badly by his community.
@@rajasmasala yea I hate that these people have to have a wake up moment to be normal decent human beings and then we have to praise them for that because most people don’t have that wake up moment😂 it’s crazy to me tbh
@@4pfcarti792 I don't think we have to forgive him at all, but it is a welcome development nonetheless.
Kat Blaque's reaction video to his apology was indeed one of the best. She has come so far politically and in maturity. She has always been a pleasure to watch and I hope more people check her content!!!
I love your content. I am so happy you had Ian on for this talk. You mentioned a lot of new things for me and I love to learn from the best.
great video! knew the channel from the hasan's stream, but subbed now!
yeah i'm with Franchesca on this one. UA-cam gives yt people so much power and when they abuse it the domino effect of bigotry it creates is too much for any individual to ever truly atone for.
@@loadishstonein order for restorative justice to work, the victim has to set the terms. That is literally how accountability processes work in the real world.
a bit of the disconnect here revolving ian only directly apologizing to tana- his apology is more about being an overall mean-spirited content, and not necessarily solely about his n word usage. for better or worse, he seems to be focusing on the fact that his content cop on her brought a confrontation into the real world. ruminating on the consequences of that event over the years was probably his "come to jesus" moment
This poor man does not have an entertainment bone in him.
I’m at a cross roads here. Ig my question is if this not a good apology what does one look like? What is enough to atone for the sins of past racist behavior? Until we can set that standard and tell ppl what we expect, it’s hard to hear ppl nitpick where a person is inadequate. Is the solution jus for ever prior bigot to leave that platform bc that seems silly to me
as a now 23 year old black man from the caribbean who watched and enjoyed idubbbz as a teen I am so thankful for this video!
He is responding so much better than I expected. You are absolutely amazing
I just clicked on his channel, and at least on mobile, the first video on the fourth playlist on his home page is a video mocking jinx for not doing a boxing match with him where he uses the n-word in the description. I hope after this conversation that he _does_ go back through his old vieos to remove or at least contextualize them with his current perspective. It's just kind of shocking that he still prominently displays videos with slurs on his channel after his apology and this conversation.
Fantastic video!!!
This was the perfect channel for the conversation. Thanks especially for talking with Francesca, whose perspective is really helpful. She's been a content creator for so long, on a variety of platforms.
nooo way ure talking to him 😭 that’s crazyyy
This was interesting. Needed to see Raheem at the end forsure.
One of the weirdest parts of this whole situation was the exact people you think would get SO butthurt about that whole thing did indeed get VERY weird about. The "Thequarterings" of the world in particular that whole "Everything i dont like is woke" Creators. Like the idea of someone owning up to bad things in their past is somehow....the actual bad thing? Like how?
This is awesome, had a very different opinion before this video and this is a big part of slowly changing my mind as far as forgiving yt ppl that have "gone there"
as a long time fan of ian, and also someone who never called someonen racial slurs, even work in antiracial organisations and in left/progressive political events and parties, unions, petitions etc, i just wanted to give my view on all this. i interpreted his use of the slurs as comedic relief and believed that in that context it is not fine for me personally but i can understand what he would achieve with that. i was hoping that i would take the power this word has but i am not living the states and it was never visible to his audiance what it actually caused. sadly more harm. one in his unboxing video he talked about it, receiving a racist book from his fans who thought it would be funny, probably or even ian would like it, but he smaked it and burned that shit. so that was for me reason enough to believe, that he is not a racist. i still believe that he wasnt racist, but careless. and all the thing that was said in the video. so i gave him a pass and was wrong. but keep in mind he start was not like that at all. and i stayed. which i should have not done. i am glad this conversations happening and that he changed and want to be better.
Don’t know this guy’s content outside of this video but he did SEEM introspective about it. That counts for something, however I whole-heartedly agree that an apology can’t mitigate the harm that has been done. No one should fear for their safety because some dude made a UA-cam video.
I think this is a great conversation on all sides. I do find it weird that the only person Franchesca says that took any real responsibility was Jenna Marbles. It sounds like the only way to take responsibility is to stop making content. And even then Franchesca said she also probably did it because she was burnt out. Implying that she still doesn’t believe she was being sincere.
Franchesca doesn’t need to accept anyone’s apology. She’s dealt with plenty of bullshit. But the way she worded that section made it seem like she isn’t interested in people learning from and apologizing for their past. I get annoyed when people say stuff like that is the bare minimum, when the bare minimum is staying in there bubble, never being introspective, and when faced with criticism doubling down.
I don’t want unlearning white supremacists, racist views, and appologizing for it to be viewed as the bare minimum
So refreshing!💯
This can be an opportunity for people to learn and take that first step toward a better future for everyone. Think it, dream it, do it!
Great work! I don’t know much about a lot these UA-camrs, but I’m enjoying the interviews and discussions. Where can we see the full interview with Francesca?
i hope your platform really grows on speaking with people who say "ive lerned and done better". I love your content, been a follower since you rolled white dude on Rising. so glad you have a youtube.
White Supremacy is a hell of a drug and idubbz is handling the withdrawals better than most.
Lmao You think Idubbz was a White supremacist
White supremacy is the default position of a person in the western world. That’s why people rejecting it has caused a whole reactionary backlash against people who recognize that fact (“wokes”)
@@AnonCitizenxxthat's not what they were saying
@@AnonCitizenxx A product of it, yeah.
@@AnonCitizenxxYou're commenting on literally everyone's comments. Get a life and stop whining that Ian isn't like you and is ashamed of ever being like you. You're embarrassing to him.
I think Olay raised a great point about public perception and how he directly destroyed multiple marginalized creators livelihoods they had built up through long periods of time and effort. I would like to add that he also did this semi-frequently to many people's attempts at even making one. Honestly, to see him not really talk about his Kickstarter hate videos in which he also did this sort of thing directly to smaller platformed individuals - (Especially marginalized people and frequently mocked them openly, frankly in a way I would say leaves the Kickstarter premise as nothing more than a thin veil to make hateful bigoted content, at least just as much as the content cops if not more so in some cases.) - is a bit upsetting, considering he also ran people offline or ruined their potential success in a way that they were never really heard from again and never had a chance after his fanbase would harass them endlessly. I can imagine that situation being quite an ordeal to recover from in anyone's case, and though I doubt they would be recognized irl today and harassed on the street as a result of those videos, the simple idea they could have been discouraged in some way from trying to make something of themselves is a very sad thought. Doubly so for marginalized people who may have had very few avenues or been trying to do anything to help themselves in an unfavorable living situation.
It is definitely something he should think about further exploring especially considering he could take further accountability and action/talk further on this at any time. To see him tread back on more of his previous videos and directly speak out against them more specifically may start to help the public's view of those individuals retrospectively, ("Yeah, but 'x' video was still deserved because 'x'." while totally missing the point of all of this,) or start to break down the environment of hate he has cultivated even outside of his audience. Agreeing to this video is definitely a step forwards at least.
I had to re-check the date on this after I started watching because I know it was a topic that came up while he was promoting Creator Clash and that I've seen Anisa speak to at length, so it was really disappointing to see him skirting direct questions and fumbling to answer things like paying reparations to the creators he harmed out of the profits he made off of those specific videos. There shouldn't have been any hesitation to receive that feedback and agree to it on the spot when that money is already in the bank tenfold, first from racism and misogyny, and now because he's catering to "the left."
So much of the content creator space is still inhabited by men who made names for themselves during Gamergate and only "pivoted" when it affected their bag. Now they get to go on Hasanabi et al, effectively whitewashing their past without meaningful apology to a new generation of viewers who didn't experience it to know how much it still permeates internet culture, while marginalized creators continue to vanish.
Regardless, this is an important topic that a lot of folks intentionally gloss over or treat with undeserved delicacy because they don't actually care about whether someone is sincere, especially if they can use them to boost their own platforms, so thank you.
Olayemi, this video is something I never felt like hope for actual atonement for people. I needed this in a way that wasn’t sugarcoating it but as prescribing actual action.
You’re an amazing interviewer.
For me I find it really amazing for anyone to have these discussions in a way where everyone feels good/comfortable. Also, hi Rahim (Raheem?) 💖 🐈⬛