Hey, everyone! Hope you're enjoying the video and coming to the comments to discuss your opinions. Just wanted to say that I apologize for any audio issues. For some reason my audio kept messing up, so I had to fix it in post. Hope it's not too much of a bother! Have a great day, everyone!
Can I ask for a confirmation about 2 supposition: 1 when Black Zetsu use his Parasitic jutsu on somone he can Share his memory with other his victims so my question is he also capable of reading their mind ? 2 Sasori can actually fly he literally have a jutsu for that "Iron Sand Black Wings" But I understand why he didn't use it when he was fighting Lady Chyio and Sakura shan : 1 they were inside a cave so using it in that area isn't optimal 2 a fly ability is generally used to creat a safe distance between you and the opponent to better prepare attacks in the fight when Sasori was using the Iron Sand he already secured a safe distance Then why would he use a tactic to creat a advantage he already have
@@sageofthickcalvesKakuzu not beating deidara and pain not beating itachi. We already seen itachi mopping pain during the war arc while baby sitting Naruto and killer B. Pain is not beating itachi with prep time. And I’m sure itachi would prep to kill every akats member. Also deidara nano bombs are kakuzu kriptonite. He doesn’t have a counter for them, and he isn’t smart enough or have a sharingan to figure out lightining would work. Deidara would sneak him a kill. And he not beating orochimaru, yall needa stop playing with orochimaru like he a goofy 🤣😭😭😭. Also deidara abilities on paper counters sasori as well. As they are “written” not “portrayed” sasori has no real counter for deidara skill set. Deidara would blow all his damn puppets. Only that 3rd kaze kage would be a problem. Honestly that might be the deciding factor so I’m open to deidara losing if he can’t figure out a way to beat that. But on paper deidara abilities counters kakuzu and sasori and even orochimaru can’t stop that nano $hit. But orochimaru do have extra bodies and consciousness in a lab 3 states away.
Lots of feared characters are perceived to be invincible. According to Gato, even Zabuza was beleived to be unbeatable. I mean the man is capable of making mist thick enough to blind the Sharingan. He could track his opponents with sound alone.
@@DefinitelyNotHidan During the Five Kage Summit, chojuro began shaking when he heard Sasuke was in the building just because he was present on the day Zabuza died. Although Kakashi was mentally affected by Zabuza getting reanimated, he was still able to keep up with war arc Kakashi! The man even assumed that Naruto would have been famous just for being somewhat involved in his death. I think he was more than skilled enough to be a part of the Akatsuki. Even without intel, I sincerely think he beats Hidan no diff and gives Deidara a run for his money(styles make fights). But I also think joining a gang goes against the type of man he is. See, Zabuza had good reason to commit the coup. He wanted to restore his village and free his people. "My time here is done, Haku. Tonight, I cast aside the land of water. One day, I will return and seize this land and hold it in my hands. Many things must be done before that day comes and you will help me do them" from the Graduation exam that made him who he was, a cold hearted assassin that walked through life hiding his pain behind his mask "Well? Cat got your tongue? Are you so surprised to discover that I'm human? Even shinobi are human. No matter how hard we try, we always fail to escape that simple fact. Well, at least, I have failed. "
This was one of the best Naruto scaling videos I watched honestly. My favorite primary was the 3rd kazekage part I was crying bro. "Minato and hiruzen are strong, But he's not the 3rd kazekage..."
thanks for talking honestly about sasori, finally someone explained his true level of power, i don’t understand why so many people still think that he is weak
Itachi vs Pain 1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too. 2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed) - Jiraiya's info - Prep time with 2 Sage clones - Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones - Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too - Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him. - Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence. - Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato. - Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village! - On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill. Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth) 3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles. Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move. Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan. (Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind. Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki. "The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow. Even Black Zetsu was surprised that Obito made a backup plan incase Pain lost because he thought that no one could defeat him. Black Zetsu watched everything from the beginning of history. Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi. Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu. Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted. There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers. Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains) Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul. Pull + Rip = dead. Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers. I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
@20:37 War arc Hiruzen did display understanding of Onoki's Dust release upon seeing Juubito's truth-seeking orbs. Hard to say if he was truly the strongest of the 5 Kage but....
Each video You make is a Banger after banger after banger. I really Enjoy that you and Virthue really got that solid Chemistry going on, Its really hard to fake that kind of thing. I really Thought The Rock/Paper/Scissors analogy for the Middle tier was extremely clever. I hope y'all Collab more often going forward!!!
I agree with everything besides Orcimaru being overall weaker than Kakuzu or Kisame. It was implied that Kakuzu was a bit stronger than ms mid Shippuden Kakashi but could have lost if Kakashi used kami and base Naruto was able to keep up with him in speed and catch him twice. This Naruto is still considered by himself to be way weaker than pre absorbed Ocrimaru Sasuke who says that the only reason he beat Orochimaru at that time was because of his arms and sickness. Orcimaru more scales to Jiraiya who can easily beat up Kohna and beat 3 paths of Pain and him and Orochimaru are considered to be equals. Pain even thought that it would be possible for Jiraiya to win if he has Intel even though I don't think that's true it's a possibility. Orochimaru also scales to old man Sartobi who is considered stronger than all the other kage that are in Shippuden. Kisame could definitely beat orochimaru if he absorbed enough chakra but it's arguably he couldn't do that. Orochimaru has better scaling has way better intelligence basically can't be killed LOL. Kisame even said he doesn't really want to fight Sannin level opponents.
@@miranhaespada1381 yes and no. Yes it would be a more concise explanation. No because one izanagi would open up an opportunity for Obito to land a killing blow.
Do you ever think about how bold Deidera and Sasori taking Gaara was? They clowned on the entire sand village lol. No one could stop them, and when they got the jinchuriki they just casually walked away 😅
I would scale the Akatsuki like this : 1 the Hight Kage level + *Obito *Pain *Itachi The Hight/mid kage level *Orochimaru *Kisame *Kakuzu (Orochimaru and Kisame can swap places in my opinion) Mid kage level *Sasori *Deidara *Konan (Those three are complicated to organise because it depends completely how the muchup is viewed) The Low Kage level Zetsu The Hight Jonin level Hidan (Yes i do think Zetsu is stronger than Hidan because he has more useful abilities than Hidan)
@@sageofthickcalves Well you are right Hidan phisical abtitudes and fighting style is much better than Zetsu Hidan can counter most of Zetsu offensive and can get close to him One question: Could the Curse Jutsu of Jashine work on Zetsu ? Zetsu do have a better range thanks to the Wood style Do have better perception skills when he is fused (or connected) to the earth But Zetsu don't have real offensive means to kill his opponent
This tier list seems accurate, edit: nvm I saw Kakazu on mid tier. Still would put him in equal standing on Kisame in terms of strength. But I like the vid.
Well he’s only one spot below Kisame in mid tier, so they’re around the same power. Everyone within a given tier is relative, but we rank them in terms of who wins against the others within that tier.
@@sageofthickcalvesAnd on the defense of Sasoris Third Kaze puppet, I would like to say that the databooks kinda didnt include this but id like to interpret that the third kazakage is the strongest in his era, and id likely assume in his era hes On the level tad bit below Hashirama and Madara. So Sasori has a free win con against anyone, its just that everyone can clap the third kaze in the era of Naruto when a handful is quite strong. But you are on point with that tier listing. So Sasori has a million puppets to use, and technically has the stats of third Kaze and himself combined. He falls short due to the others high aoe and stuff and more ways to crush the puppets. Anyways, nice video
I just don’t feel comfortable putting Orochimaru below Kakazu and Kisame if we are scaling him to be equal to or stronger than MS Sasuke (Kage Summit, strongest version of MS Sasuke that Suigetsu sees). Sasuke could react to V2 Raikage, who was at the time faster than Killer Bee (after fighting Kisame, before the 4th Great Ninja War, by that time he had gotten stronger after training with Naruto). And that same Raikage is stated to be faster than jounin Minato and on top of that, Killer Bee was also speed blitzing Kisame (ex. nearly killing Kisame with a pencil, lariat that destroyed his chest cavity). So with that in mind, a faster and stronger Raikage would be able to blitz and kill Kisame (in base and considering that Killer Bee nearly did, while the Raikage broke Sasuke’s sussano, Sussano durability > Kisame base durability). With all of that in mind, Orochimaru should be able to replicate the feats Sasuke had in the Kage Summit, if not, do better (if you scale Orochimaru over or equal to MS Sasuke at the Kage summit, which is your scaling in this video, and is reinforced by the statement that Sannin can match the 5 Kage. On top of that, Suigetsu knows enough about Orochimaru to estimate his strength, Suigetsu fought that same version of Killer Bee, witnessed Sasuke vs the Raikage, and STILL thought Orochimaru was bigger threat than the MS Sasuke at the Kage Summit. So Orochimaru is faster than Kisame and Kakazu. He is also durable enough to tank their attacks, considering that (weakened from Soul Reaper jutsu) he was able to tank a full strength beating from Tsunade (who stayed the same strength level in the series until her mental boost after Dan revitalized her against Madara, which earlier in that fight, thhe weaker version of Tsunade was stated to be stronger than the Raikage). Kisame nor Kakazu have the AP of 7 Gates Guy, the same Guy’s Hirudora wasn’t strong enough to even damage Madara’s sussano. That same Hirudora, knocked out beat a stronger version of Kisame. Which makes Orochimaru durable enough tank anything Kisame or Kakazu could throw at him. On top of that, Samehada doesn’t like aborning foul chakra (Orochimaru’s) so Kisame couldn’t augment himself like he would as bijuu or jinchuriki. And for strength, while Orochimaru has no true feats, his lore and the people he directly compares to have stronger feats. He was strong enough to temporarily stalemate Hiruzen using Enma, who is stated to be the strongest of the Kage (individually). A weakened Orochimaru was still stronger than the same Kabuto who was stalemating base Tsunade, which as established, is physically stronger than everyone mentioned previous. That same Kabuto is in the same tier as the Kakashi that fought Kakazu. That same Kakashi, is completely scared of Orochimaru, to the point that he instantly thought he was dead at the prospect of fighting Orochimaru. That same Kakashi confirmed to Naruto after the Kakazu fight that he could have used Kamui to kill Kakazu and ended the fight by himself, but was preserving it due to not wanting to be fatigued while battling against Hidan. The fact that Kakashi was holding back (not using MS) against Kakazu and was still somewhat confident, but pissed himself whenever he saw Orochimaru is telling enough narrative wise. Sage Jiraiya (which in base already scales above the 5 Kage individually) is stated to be in the same tier as hydra Orochimaru, which just further proves Orochimaru is stronger than Kage Summit Raikage and Killer Bee by extension. Part 1/Healthy Orochimaru > Kage Summit MS Sasuke >= Raikage > Pre 4th Great Ninja war Killer Bee => Kisame > Kakazu. And for Kisame vs Kakazu, I fully support your agreements besides Kakazu’s win con. Killer Bee, MS Sasuke, and The Raikage all have stronger lightning style than that version of Kakashi that fought Kakazu, and Kisame was able to tank Killer Bee’s strongest lightning style jutsu and keep fighting. Plus on top of that, Samehada has absorbed larger quantities of chakra from Killer Bee in their fight than anything either Kakazu or Orochimaru could produce. Only other that irked was setting the ceiling of Kakazu’s speed at KCM 1. After Itachi departed from Naruto, he literally was so fatigued he was about pass out. He didn’t get to catch a break because Obito and his 6 paths showed up. The jinchuriki paths were buffed already due to wielding the Mangekyo and rinnegan, which is already proven to enhance all forms of the wielders in all forms from base to when the dojutsu is activated (ex. Resurrected Madara implanting a rinngean and changing the tide of the fight, Sasuke gaining MS made him stronger than when he had absorbed Orochimaru). The 6 paths of Obito were heavily buffed due to the dojutsuand with Naruto being heavily fatigued. Kakazu most consistent speed is faster than base sharingan Kakashi, considering he had pinned Kakashi and nearly killed him directly 1v1 (anime + manga). I would honestly argue that Kakazu is better fit in a the low tier, simply due to not being really comparable to a later series Kisame who is a match for stronger versions of Guy and Kakashi, and inferior the sannin, feats and narratively. (Base Part 1 Orchimaru >= Jiraiya >= Tsunade > Raikage (ex. had to be boosted by Ohnoki to be relative with 100 Heals Tsunade against Madara) > Killer Bee (Pre 4th Ninja War) => Kisame > Kakazu. An incomplete rasenshuriken was strong enough to put down a slightly fatigued, slight weaker, but final form Kakazu, never mind a complete rasenshuriken. A stronger version of Naruto with a complete rasenshuriken couldn’t even incapacitate edo tensei 3rd Raikage, who is equal to if not slightly less stronger version of the 4th Ninja War Raikage (who was weaker than his Kage Summit self). Naruto was narratively still weaker than base Jiraiya who is stated to be on par with Orochimaru. Plus a less proficient and weaker Kakashi had no doubts about killing Kakazu, was strong enough later in the series to match MS Sasuke (Post Danzo and relative if not equal to Sage Naruto) and V2 versions of heavily buffed jinchurikis, while having the proficiency to kamui bijuu bombs, bijuu, KCM Naruto rasengans, and Truth Seeking Orbs. Part 1/Healthy Orochimaru > 4th Ninja War 6-7 Gates Guy = 4th Ninja War Kakashi > Kismae >>>> Kakazu
@@sageofthickcalvesnarratively @@sageofthickcalvesLike Sasuke finally surpassing Orochimaru to fight Itachi or Naruto surpassing Jiraiya to pain. @@sageofthickcalvescouple of @@sageofthickcalves @@sageofthickcalvess that I was debating with my friends are: Itachi vs Nagato (Healthy + Prime), Gaara vs Kisame (It’s actually closer than one would think), n (Healthy, no edo tensei) Orochimaru + Imperfect Sage Jiraiya vs Sage Naruto (Pain Arc) + MS Sasuke (Post Danzo fight, but with blindness just starting)
One of the main problems with the video I see are deidara and Konan, konan only loses to jiraiya so easily because he has a perfect counter to her and she doesn’t attempt to dodge his oil just like his fire, without that Konan would be a much bigger problem as we see she’s able to catch obito off guard and damage him greatly and Deidara before even stating he’s weaker than Sasori talks about a plan and then purposely makes naruto Angry and lured him out alone and after wards when kakashi follows hes states that and then gets excited when naruto tells kakashi to go back to fight sasori and even after that he’s annoyed when kakashi regroups with naruto to cool him down, making his statement come off as untrue or at the very least said with context of him trying to either kill or capture naruto himself with no outside distractions instead of being and indicator of his strength
The issue with Konan and Deidara is they’re relatively slow in comparison to the others. They’re also not super versatile in their fighting styles. It’s just really hard to put either of them above the characters in the tiers above them.
@@sageofthickcalves Konan speed is relative to Obito, which is absolutely insane. She clearly never fought seriously with Jiraiya since she was never in danger since Pain was there. Deidara speed scales to Itachi through Sasuke. By contrast, Kakuzu has Kakashi speed at best, with tons of jonin anti-feats.
@@williamt8234 her speed isn’t relative to Obito’s. You gotta re-read that fight. There’s not a moment that shows them being relative. As much as I’d like to agree and hype her up, it would just be disingenuous. I did think that before going back and reading the fight again, though.
AYYY MY BOY, I JUST STARTED WATCHING, MB FOR NOT BEING HERE 1ST SECOND, I already got the ranking, 1.Hidan. 2 through, idk, 10. Fodder Just got too the "Garbage tier" I swear if I heard Hidan i would've clicked off, but idk why I didn't think of White Zetsu. The Garbage the is white zetsu reasoning made sense and was 100% Factual Now Hidan at the bottom of the list, Personally, I Don't agree with, as yes he has shown to not have an answer to Flying combatants, yet Like how the panels / animation you showed on the background of the video, It showed how Fast / How aggressive he is when he's in action, and him clashing with Kakashi and Surviving a Wind Pressure attack from Kakazus Hearts mid fight is nothing to Scoff at, But what I'd like too bring up is Environment, as he's Fast enough too scale probably Hill / Small mountain sized Trees and like he showed during his fight with Yuugito, he's pretty sneaky as he hides behind his rock. I'd also like to bring up is that all Hidan needs is a touch / (literally) a lick of Blood to disassemble and just put the other fighter out of commission, But im not gonna sit here and say Konan just can't move out of the way of Hidans attacks, but I'd say it's much closer then one might think. Also He has good pain endurance and could handle a paper cut, But I'd like to mention that Hidan (in terms of Combat skill) is easily the best out of all the akatsuki, and yes I am biased with that, also. Hidan > Asuma > Choza ~ Kinkaku >~ Tired Tobirama (you could say a Tired Tobirama is comparable to the Edo Tobi that fought Hiruzen, Also Im gonna say a Tired Tobirama is and the only way someone like Kinkaku and Ginkaku Killed Tobirama.)
@@sageofthickcalves YES, W, best Naruto YTber on the spectrum rn, love how you actually answer questions / Comments, know now that I’m now gonna be a Long time Viewer. Also I’d like too say The 3rd Kazekage being above everybody during his time is Probably Sand Bullshit, and Let’s be honest, someone like Raasa is currently stronger then 3rd Kazekage, just cause of Showings. Statements don’t get you Past real Showings.
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru tanked that jutsu he was disguised so it wasn't his actual skin and he didn't even use his oral rebirth he just fought with his disguised ripped and took it off when he met Anko and he was severely holding back to test Sasuke which we know character's can hold back their reactions because during the Sasuke fight Itachi didn't dodge the rigged shiruken so let's not over blow what all things considered a fight Orochimaru did not take serious at all
I agree with all of that. My point was he took damage, so Kakuzu can damage him. I genuinely think a fight between the two would be one of the longest fights we’ve seen, since neither of them have one shot potential against the other. They’re so tanky
@@sageofthickcalvesyeah but I really think you put him too high like I still have no confidence in him taking down Deidara his high tier bombs aren't something to scoff at and I think 3 of them are guaranteed one shots and I think his sand village wiping bomb could take him out I also think hebi Sasuke is strongly showed to be Superior to him since the gap between Naruto and Sasuke was way too large and while tanking that fire jutsu is something a bijuu blast from 4 tails V2 Naruto should be superior considering the huge gap in the tailed beast hierarchy when it comes to Kurama
@@hoifzf Kakuzu’s durability is no joke. Like I said in the video, he got a literal mountain dropped on him and survived. The only reason the rasenshuriken was implied to have harmed him as badly as it did was because of how it works, not necessarily just it’s AP. And it still only took out 3 hearts. Had it not severed his chakra network, he would’ve still been able to fight. As far as Deidara, the only things he has that should be able to severely damage Kakuzu are c4 and c0. Kakuzu tanking attacks from a fully transformed 2 tails without his diamond morph is enough evidence for that. He also can eliminate Deidara’s range advantage with the masks. And as far as Orochimaru, I think your scaling on a baseline level is sound, but as you dig deeper you see a lot of issues with just doing direct character scaling. First, there’s a decent gap in their durability. I’d like to point out that Orochimaru didn’t tank the bijuudama, despite taking some power off of it with the rashiman gates. He had to use the body replacement immediately after. So his durability is a good deal below that bijuudama. Considering the fact that kakuzu survived Naruto’s rasenshuriken, which is directly compared to Minato’s rasengan, which stalemated a bijuudama that’s probably of similar power to the 4 tails Naruto one, I’d say a strong argument could be made that Kakuzu has better base durability than Orochimaru. And as for AP, as stated in the video, Orochimaru doesn’t have anything that is guaranteed to be able to take down kakuzu, whereas Kakuzu’s jutsu being able to at least harm him pretty badly is a good indication that he could put him down with enough energy put into it. Again, I think that it would be a LONG fight that would come down to attrition. However, I just see Kakuzu’s superior durability and AP leading to him getting the win, since there’s nothing in Orochimaru’s arsenal that we can point to as a legitimate win condition. I mean feel free to correct me if I’m missing something. Can you think of anything Orochimaru has in his bag that would be a legitimate win con vs Kakuzu’s bijuu-level durability?
@@sageofthickcalves I honestly don't think kakazu is taking Deidara's attacks as mountain destroying power is something I think Deidara is capable of and Orochimaru is the person who trained Sasuke strong lightning style would destroy the diamond armor I'm pretty sure his kusanagi would be capable with enhancing it with an element being childs play I also believe Orochimaru could dodge his attacks since Orochimaru was blatantly superior to kakashi as well with kakashi not daring to try him with a flex of his KI shaking him to his core though back then he didn't have kamui and Orochimaru is implied to be above jiraiya who Kakashi still thought himself inferior to by the pain arc which is saying something Orochimaru can tank attacks and putting him below the 2 tails is a super low ball jinchuriki are stated to be stronger transformed with jinchuriki and I highly doubt the 2 tails is so much more powerful than the one tails which was held off by kid Naruto and gamabunta in part 1 so I wouldn't hype him catching the paw of the second weakest tailed beast Also kakazu surviving isn't that great since he was even able to get up and move he would have slowly bled out anyway so that isn't much of a buff for him and I'm confident if Orochimaru fought that team by himself he'd actually be able to take care of them easily sure choji is strong but you really think a team like that can take out the sannin? Naruto didn't even surpass jiraiya until sage mode which everyone had to stay out the fight because of the gap in power and a sick Orochimaru is states to be above the hebi Sasuke which perception blitzed team 7 and I don't see how being fatigued messed up their eye sight also while I get Naruto trained I doubt he got so much stronger since he still saw himself below the Sasuke that's still below the same sick Orochimaru who you claim has trash durability Orochimaru couldn't do anything with the Hydra form because he got sealed and faced a far stronger opponent but if we're gonna validate statements Orochimaru definitely is a great deal stronger since before he realized what he got stabbed by he thought the susano'o blade meant nothing which could mean he has higher regeneration I'm confident the sannin themselves can take down bijuu like the 2 tails which I'm sure isn't that much stronger than the one tails No shade but I'm hope your not trying to sound different with your scaling on purpose but visualizing how these fights would go some of these characters need to be higher and kakazu definitely doesn't belong that high it's just something wrong with how the ranking looks with him I watched the noodles vs six video and I honestly think the "raw durability" thing is taken waay too seriously he's strong but his direct way of fighting honestly isn't a good match I also think Konan should be above or between kakazu and Deidara since that Obito feat should definitely be taken seriously I also believe the rennigan gives durability amps because Sasuke would be slaughtered by Madara if it didn't also he's faster and his attacks are stronger too
@@hoifzf - I do think Deidara’s c0 is mountain level, but nothing else. - We don’t have any evidence that Orochimaru trained Sasuke in Lightning style, but he’d be smart enough to figure out that lightning works against it. Just not sure he has lightning style on the level of raikiri. - Orochimaru being superior to Kakashi in part 1 doesn’t matter here, since it’s shippuden and the gap has closed significantly, if not entirely (minus summons). - Kakashi only thought himself inferior to Jiraiya because he wrongly thought Jiraiya fought all six paths at once. Again, he might still be below sanin tier at that point, but he’s pretty close. - Bijuu are said to be stronger with a jinchuriki, but that applies to the 2 tails. Yugito was still the jinchuriki, she just did a full transformation. Also, there’s no indication that the bijuu power goes up with tails. That’s a common misconception. It’s only ever shown that Gyuuki and Kurama are the strongest, but the rest all have relative feats. That said, fully transformed Matatabi still has better feats in terms of AP and DC than 4 tails Naruto. - Kakuzu wouldn’t have bled out. That’s not how his body works. The reason he couldn’t move is because the rasenshuriken attacks you on a molecular level, severing your chakra network. If it didn’t have that hax, he would’ve been fine, albeit with just one heart left. - I think Orochimaru might have a better chance there due to his summons, but I’m not so sure. Kakashi has better speed scaling with his raikiri at that point, and he’d probably be more likely to use his MS. But again, it’s not about who’s overall stronger between Orochimaru and Kakuzu. It’s about who would win in a battle between the two. Orochimaru has just never shown anything in his arsenal with that level of power. His best bet is his snakes. - Naruto does surpass Jiraiya with sage mode, but his base is still lower than Jiraiya’s, in terms of showings. - The Hebi Sasuke feat doesn’t apply here because Naruto was Kyuubi amped during the Kakuzu fight and had gotten stronger in base. Also, Naruto was clearly mental nerfed. I do think he was weaker than Sasuke, though. - Woah when did I say Orochimaru has trash durability??? I stated both Orochimaru and Kakuzu are tanks. I just think Kakuzu’s durability feats are better. Let’s not put words in each others mouths. - The Hydra might be a win condition, we just have zero feats from it. - I’m sure the sanin can probably take down bijuu, but both Jiraiya and Orochimaru are below 4 tails Naruto (at least in their base forms), and I don’t think anything suggests that Naruto is stronger than fully transformed Matatabi. - Not trying to be different, just using the feats and statements to come to fact-based conclusions. - Yeah I was making a joke of Noodles’s raw durability points the whole video. I don’t agree he’s above Pain, like Noodles asserted. But again, name me ONE attack Orochimaru has shown to use that has the AP to take down Kakuzu. It has to be stronger than the rasenshuriken. - Konan just isn’t fast enough - Sasuke is a bad example to use there because he also got six paths chakra from Hagoromo. But I do think it’s possible the Rinnegan boosts durability, it’s just not confirmed Here’s the deal, Orochimaru is super strong and if I were ranking it just based on power, he’d be above Kakuzu. But that’s why we did tiers. Everyone in a given tier are pretty relative to one another, but we rank them in terms of who beats the others in a fight. And I’m sorry, but Orochimaru simply has never shown the attack potency to put down someone like kakuzu, whereas kakuzu has at least shown the ability to severely wound Orochimaru.
People tend to forget when Zetsu went for the Daimyos, where he fought a Kage, a guy with speed relative to KCM Naruto, and several others at once: ua-cam.com/video/3Gr-94idK9A/v-deo.html And do not even get me started on how forgotten Guru Guru vs. Taka, Orochimaru, the Hokage, and pretty much the whole alliance is: ua-cam.com/video/__OZF0DyECo/v-deo.html
Yeah the reason I didn’t include those are because the first one doesn’t happen in the manga and the second one is Zetsu using Yamato as a vessel to increase his power. In the manga, the first instance is literally just shown as him getting blitzed by Mei and then detecting Naruto and Bee’s chakra signatures and sending the message. So, since it’s vastly different, I tend to lean toward the manga. If we take it into consideration, though, he’s definitely up in low tier with Hidan, Sasori, Konan, and Deidara.
I’d say Orochimaru would win, cause of Reanimation. But if you don’t give him that then probably Kakazu. In theory Orochimaru would have Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato.
Since I got one crazy ass Ranking and a truly Untypical, List. I’ll just post it ere as your list wasn’t crazy enough, and I have my Reasons why it’s like this. 1.Obito 2.Pain 3.Transformed Kisame 4.Kakuzu 5.Hidan 6.Kisame 7.Itachi (Sick) 8.Orochimaru 9.Deidara 10.Sasori 11.Konan. 12.Zetsu. Hidans the Goat, 🧍♂️
@@sageofthickcalves Hear me Out, Hidans Scythe Blitzes Deidaras monologuing, 🧍♂️ Sasori Can’t really fly, or I forgot, also Sasori Does Bleed, as he has a Heart, and Hidans speed is Underrated, as he was able to Keep Kakashi on the Defensive in the Anime which is Soft canon and doesn’t Contradict the Story, And Itachi would go Blind after 1 Tsukiyomi, and like 2 Amaterasus in 1 fight, this is an Exaggeration, also his fight with Sasuke was literally Planned from Start to finish, also if we put this in a Gauntlet Sense, Hidan could deadass just Lick the Blood off the floor And Kill possibly anybody, but that won’t count in my Explanation, Itachi (as an Akatsuki)’s Susanno isn’t the fastest enough to Tag Hidan, Hidan also isn’t Stupid enough to just run in and try and attack it, also Itachi goes blind after One use of the Susanno, And I’d also like to mention Itachi and Uchiha in-General bleed a lot, Via the eyes, and somehow always leave a Fight with blood coming out of there Mouth’s, now I ain’t the smartest fellow but I like to bring up the idea of Hidan just licking it off the floor and just doing his Ritual and Stabbing Himself, Also Ik Tsukiyomi could possibly clear, but you could really say that about anybody in the Akatsuki. Also Hidan Just, Gets Excited, at the idea of pain, shouldn’t be much of a Hinderance for Hidan as it is For the guy who couldn’t beat Blood.🧍♂️ Also Kakuzu 5v1’s and Demolishes, and Kisame would just take Samehada and Just dog on the Clown (Itachi), and Yes I don’t like Itachi, but at the same Time, Itachi is a Victim of Time and Lack of Chakra. While Kisame is Practically Naruto but a Shark and Hidans Fucking Immortal, Also Kakuzu could easily Outlast Itachi, as Ik his hearts ain’t the strongest but Nor is Itachi the fastest, also yes I forgot Itachis Speed Feats, if you’d like to remind me Sage, that’s if you read this.
Also I’d like to Bring up this scale I’ve tooken from Someone else. Hidan>Asuma>Choza~V2 Kinkaku>Raikage = Bee > Kyubi Cloak Clone Naruto = 3rd Raikage Edo Let me clarify why This is correct, and since I haven’t heard anybody disprove it, I will state it as Correct Asuma has Been said to be Above Choza, As Asuma had the best Combat Skill in the entirety of the Village, And as an Edo Damaged Choza who Previously Suffered no Massive Injuries Against A V2 cloak Kinkaku which he held back, Ay Stated that he couldn’t beat Kinkaku By himself without a So6p tool, Bee is = to Raikage, Clone Kyubi other words Naruto is Equal to Edo 3rd Raikage, whose below Ay and Bee. And with This Sort of, dunno whatchacallit, Scaling, It would theoretically Put him Above Someone Like Kisame, 🎅🏿 “I got a plan Arthur”
@@Mr_G.B. there are a few misinterpretations here tbh. I honestly don’t want to take the time to go through the whole scaling tree, but I’ll point out the issues that immediately jump out to me. 1: Hidan doesn’t scale above Asuma. He only beat him via his hax, not by simply scaling higher. They were relative in terms of speed and, had Hidan not had his immortality hax, he probably would’ve lost. 2: Asuma is said to have the highest close combat skill of the Jonin, not the highest combat skill overall. Choza is actually said to have the highest war potential in the Leaf. I also think it’s unfair to take scaling and from databooks 1 and 2 and apply them to events that happen during the period the 4th databook covers. 3: Ay was worried about taking down BOTH of the gold and silver brothers, and his statements seem to imply that the main thing he was scared of was the sacred tools.
Without prep? I think the best bet might be Sasori because he can keep pressure on Obito with his puppets, forcing him to phase continuously. Then, once his timer runs out, tag him with poison. However, this is only if he has knowledge of the time limit.
@@sageofthickcalvesintangibility is a strong counter for all attacks and than kamuis the core sense he should be able to see the chakra eminating from it. Poison is a unknown but a mist like amount of poision while battling him would be a good prep attack still kamui conon knew him for years with him admitingly half-assing while inittionally fighting. She got lucky itachi is probably the only that if had her intel would have put down perminitly.
Midway through the video, towards the end of kakuzu, but where do you think war arc orochimaru scales? Where would he be on this list? Or boruto era lol
War arc would be at the top of mid tier probably. He’s featless, but adding Zetsu cells, giving him his arms their functionality, and the weird EMS Sasuke statement all lead me to believe he should be higher than the others in mid tier. Boruto era Orochimaru is stronger than anyone on this list. He probably still loses to Obito due to hax, but defeating a Kara member scales him above everyone here fairly easily. Great question!
In the manga it’s a super brief exchange that he loses pretty badly, but the anime seems much more impressive. Due to that, I side with the manga material. That said, he’s WAY below everyone else on here, even with that showing
Thanks for responding, genuinely didn't expect you to but I still stand by what I said, basically, how long would you expect let's say Hidan to stand against a Kage (even ifn it is the weakest one) plus a Naruto clone plus assitance, I would expect almost no time at all, I do think you're sleeping on black zetsu a bit (he's still low tier akatuke in my opinion just not garbage tier).@@sageofthickcalves
I tnink the pushback of the Obito vs Itachi mostly stems from their interaction in the road to ninja movie. Itachi eluding to countering Kamui with genjutsu and Obito avoid confrontation at all cost. I still think Obito is the strongest.
Yeah it’s just weird because all of the feats point in Obito’s direction statements are super useful, but I never understood people using them to supersede feats
I don’t think kakuzu has a way of permanently killing Orochimaru that’s the issue with him. Hell very few people do. He’s just a weird match up but I guess he can’t hurt kakuzu either .
Theoretically.... Wouldn't Izanami work against Obito? Izanami hard-counters Izanagi & of course Kamui is ineffective against it since it's a genjutsu. Izanami works on anyone who has ambitions of "changing" or "defying" the world, in which Obito falls into both categories since he does use Izanagi & technically, the Eye of the Moon Plan would count as "defying / changing" the world as the world itself would go into an eternally-long genjutsu of humanity's dreams. So technically, Izanami is a win condition for Obito. In fact, if Edo Itachi fought Obito, he would probably either eliminate Obito from the war itself or turn him onto the side of the Allied Shinobi Forces & against Madara as well as Kabuto (much earlier in the war) simply because of Izanami. Itachi himself could've literally changed the War Arc itself with one simple jutsu.
Ok so about sasori (I love ur content btw just trynna give some insight) No matter what you say there is no way kakuzu is above sasori in any regard let alone deidara Kakuzu was very much relative to early pt2 kakashi, kakashi dint even feel the need to use kamui on kakuzu until the end. Im not saying early pt2 kakashi and kakuzu are relative but they arent that far off. With that same logic already there is no way kakuzu is above either deidara or sasori. Also don't underestimate granny chiyo she is easily sannin level if not above that. She used sakuras sannin level ap to shatter his puppets and sasori was holding back the entire match. I dont even see kakuzu beating granny chiyo by himself, i just dont understand how sasori and kisame arent in the same tier i feel like they are interchangeable
Thank you! I appreciate you 🙏🏼 Yeah I just think Kakuzu’s scaling is pretty solid tbh. The biggest things, though, are his versatility, AP, and multiple lives. I’m just not sure Sasori or Deidara could put him down for good before he gets them (aside from C0, of course). I do think both Sasori and Deidara having the ability to fight at long range helps them against most people, but not really against kakuzu. I do think they have win cons for sure, though.
i will be fair to kakashi he is definitely fast enough to react to the masks jutsus and should’ve kamui’d kakuzus head for the few seconds he was in shadow possession but everytime he interacts with kakuzu in taijutsu or EGF he gets clapped and even when he tells naruto he could’ve used his kamui he thinks back to when kakuzus shooting the wind+fire combo, not when he was on the floor hoping shikamaru came in clutch implying if it weren’t for hidan kakashi would’ve been dead and the reason C4 and poison wouldn’t work is because of kakuzus anatomy, everytime he splits his body parts no bones, organs or blood is shown its also possible that kakuzu’s hearts can hide their chakra presence bcz kakashi wasn’t able to sense 4 other hearts after he lands the raikiri for the sasori stuff its possible chiyo was also holding back and it makes sense narratively because sasori is her grandson but she doesn’t bring out chikamatsus puppets until sasori reattaches himself after almost killing her also just by comparing arsenals and speed relativity chiyo can’t really handle any of the sanin in a 1v1
@@bigcarnotaurus8857 I interpret the Kakashi stuff a bit differently, but yeah I do think the manga implies that Kakashi is a tad below Kakuzu. Keep in mind, though, Kakashi came in below 100% and also essentially had to babysit most of that fight. He had to waste 2 raikiris saving team 10 from the false darkness, and that’s just one instance. Plus, when Kakuzu gets him with his cords, it’s not really a speed blitz as much as it is a crafty tactic. He uses the fire as a distraction and sneaks in below to grab Kakashi. And yeah Sasori is a monster for sure
Chiyo is badass fought a suicide mission to terminate her only connection aside from the sand as a whole and her brother i think. She put him down no hesitation when her chance appeared just like her phycopathic grandchild tried and slightly succeded, held the sand up through wars and tragedies and gave her life for the future with no hesitation. She deserves the hype and lore and this just scales sasori higher sense i believe he excelled past her in everything but experince.
@@DakotaCoughlin literally she is incredible, she actually scales way higher than people think it's crazy that people think she loses to base sharingon kakashi
@@sageofthickcalves true but the short answer wouldn't be any fun, like would a beast be able to heal itachi or manage a headless hidan, or give kakuzu's heart monsters Chakara to launch their own beast balls?
Deidara took out Gaara while trying to not kill him and damn near stalemated Hebi Sasuke. Sasori beat Kankuro and lost to the team of Chiyo and Sakura. I’m not sure how ya’ll determined that Sasori is stronger than Deidara. Even Sasori’s ultimate jutsu ended up being underwhelming. Deidara has a more potent arsenal and better feats. Let’s not take a statement made by a nineteen year old about his much older superior to heart to that degree. Edit: No offense intended. I was being entirely serious. Like I said in the comment section for another video - you’re my favorite Naruto based content creator.
My only problems are Konan, Deidara and Orochimaru. WA Konan should be at least V2 Ay at least in reaction and speed since she can stop Obito from going into the kamui dimension something that Naruto in kcm1 couldn't do and was able to react to sage mode Naruto. Deidara saying that Sasori is stronger was clearly a lie, he told Sasori that he would lure Naruto so he can capture him and then laughs when Naruto said that he was going to fight him alone, he scales to oro hebi sasuke who can blitz the girl that was reacting to Sasori's iron sand and hundred puppets. Orochimaru is hard but his peak (War arc or part 1) should be faster than Kakuzu who can't hear Naruto comming behind him dispite having a jet turbine on his hand. His ninjutsu was dodged by Ino, oral ribirth should heal everything Kakuzu trow at him and the kusanagi is perfect to pierce him from below just like he did to 4 tails If you use the wacky noodles scaling than Kakuzu wins, but Edo Yugito was clearly stronger than her alive self. I don't know if Swagkage talked about this but the six paths were all chunin/jounin level at best then sudenly they're sage mode Jiraiya level when the animal path back then couldn't scratch jounin Jiraiya so this jutsu clearly amps the body that you are using by infusing your own chakra and Obito is stronger than Nagato so just do the math I made it too long my bad lol
You’re good haha. I just think the Konan scaling to Obito stuff just doesn’t work imo because Obito outright stated that he underestimated her. Since he’s clearly not going all out, we can’t say for certain that any of her physical feats against him genuinely scale that high.
@@sageofthickcalves nah i don't think she scales to him either but she was able to stop kamui mid teleportation, Minato need FTG to do that and grab his body before he could materialize out of the paper sea. The Storm Revolution cutscenes is supposed to be manga canon if you want consider that as well
Why do people always forget about orochimarus reanimation jutsu? And how many people in the akatsuki can defeat them quite a 1pain because of the rinegan roles 2.itachi with the sword of totsuka 3.obito because of kamui and that's also debatable Plus remember that the reanimation requires no more Chakra once it's castered
Sasori is stronger than Kakuzu Second Highest akatsuki databook stats After Itachi (34.5) while Kakuzu got 32 Conquered a nation Defeated strongest kazekage ever Stated to be superior than Deidara whom also was stated to be quite strong by Kisame
The databook ratings suggest kid Neji is faster than Hiruzen. They’re a useful tool to show growth for characters throughout the series, but not for comparing characters at any given time. Sasori is a beast, but he probably doesn’t have the AP to put down Kakuzu, while Kakuzu definitely has the AP to put down Sasori. Also, his poison wouldn’t work because of Kakuzu’s physiology. In terms of scaling: Speed: Kakuzu (scales to raikiri Kakashi) AP: Probably relative (iron sand vs Kakuzu’s jutsu arsenal) Durability: Kakuzu (tailed beast/mountain level) Intellect: Kakuzu (stated and shown in the manga and databooks to be incredibly smart) Chakra/Stamina: Kakuzu (5 hearts with massive chakra reserves) Hax: Sasori (poison, but it wouldn’t affect Kakuzu) Kakuzu just has way better showings. Kakashi is clearly MUCH stronger than Sakura at that point in the series and Kakuzu showed relativity or even superiority to Kakashi, while Sasori was bested by Sakura with some help from Chiyo.
@@nocturne311 1: Why is Taka Sasuke > rasenshuriken Naruto? 2: Why is rasenshuriken Naruto > Kakuzu? He had a ton of help taking him down and utilized hax to do it that Kisame wouldn’t have access to. 3: Why is Kisame > Pre-War Bee? Bee had to hold back because he didn’t want to draw his brother’s attention.
i do wanna say sasuke tried slicing deidara twice before he pulled out his C2 dragon and failed Ultimately the only time he actually landed a hit on deidara with anything in his arsenal was his fist when he used genjutsu on deidara and his left eye didn’t dissipate it in time, and i think this is consistent to his speed scaling because we do later see him keeping up with onoki as an edo tensei on his bird i recently have came to the conclusion that the speed scaling in naruto is either really inconsistent or just not that big of a gap and for the sake of closer matchups i hope people come to the same conclusion 26:10 i know she wasn’t brought up as a perfect jinchuriki when they talk about bee and yagura but hey the minato manga made han and roshi perfect jinchuriki so i guess maybe all of them were lmao
Yeah speed scaling is weird. I think there are times when there’s a blatant gap, such as Deidara and Sasuke, but there’s usually a statement of some kind to go along with the feats. In that fight, Deidara actually thinks to himself that Sasuke is really fast before taking to the sky.
@@sageofthickcalves Its just weird as most of his feats don't really do too much damage to less durable people not to mention Oro survived stronger people
@@Redoren966 well his jutsu basically have to be dodged or countered with other high level ninjutsu. For example, Kakashi had to use two raikiri (S rank ninjutsu) to stop his false darkness. If that hits Orochimaru, it’s at the very least making him switch bodies.
I don’t think it’s wise to stop using them, since Kishimoto writes them. However, the manga feats supersede the databook statements. I think taking both into account is wise, but always side with the original material if there’s a contradiction
I think Deidara's bombs should beat kakazu also during the kakashi and Naruto chase down he stated he didn't have enough clay since he was just off helping sealing them one tails Deidara is overrated but we shouldn't down play his capabilities to sound new
We weren’t downplaying him at all. His showings against Sasuke hold him back here. Blatantly getting blitzed multiple times, while having every advantage he could, puts him below everyone in middle tier in my opinion.
@@sageofthickcalves thats not true sasuke had the advantage couse his lighting release sasuke barely won that and kisame saying that deidara was one the strongest proves that he was top 5 in akatsuki.
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Hey, everyone! Hope you're enjoying the video and coming to the comments to discuss your opinions. Just wanted to say that I apologize for any audio issues. For some reason my audio kept messing up, so I had to fix it in post. Hope it's not too much of a bother! Have a great day, everyone!
sasori has the biggest range 2 to deidara
Can I ask for a confirmation about 2 supposition:
1 when Black Zetsu use his Parasitic jutsu on somone he can Share his memory with other his victims so my question is he also capable of reading their mind ?
2 Sasori can actually fly he literally have a jutsu for that
"Iron Sand Black Wings"
But I understand why he didn't use it when he was fighting Lady Chyio and Sakura shan :
1 they were inside a cave so using it in that area isn't optimal
2 a fly ability is generally used to creat a safe distance between you and the opponent to better prepare attacks in the fight when Sasori was using the Iron Sand he already secured a safe distance
Then why would he use a tactic to creat a advantage he already have
@@raoufdali1049 Yeah for sure
1: Probably if he’s merged with them yeah
2: Yeah I know Sasori can fly, it’s just not something he generally does
@@sageofthickcalvesKakuzu not beating deidara and pain not beating itachi. We already seen itachi mopping pain during the war arc while baby sitting Naruto and killer B. Pain is not beating itachi with prep time. And I’m sure itachi would prep to kill every akats member. Also deidara nano bombs are kakuzu kriptonite. He doesn’t have a counter for them, and he isn’t smart enough or have a sharingan to figure out lightining would work. Deidara would sneak him a kill. And he not beating orochimaru, yall needa stop playing with orochimaru like he a goofy 🤣😭😭😭. Also deidara abilities on paper counters sasori as well. As they are “written” not “portrayed” sasori has no real counter for deidara skill set. Deidara would blow all his damn puppets. Only that 3rd kaze kage would be a problem. Honestly that might be the deciding factor so I’m open to deidara losing if he can’t figure out a way to beat that. But on paper deidara abilities counters kakuzu and sasori and even orochimaru can’t stop that nano $hit. But orochimaru do have extra bodies and consciousness in a lab 3 states away.
Lots of feared characters are perceived to be invincible. According to Gato, even Zabuza was beleived to be unbeatable. I mean the man is capable of making mist thick enough to blind the Sharingan. He could track his opponents with sound alone.
Him and Kimimaro had the highest chance to joined the Akatsuki
@@DefinitelyNotHidan During the Five Kage Summit, chojuro began shaking when he heard Sasuke was in the building just because he was present on the day Zabuza died. Although Kakashi was mentally affected by Zabuza getting reanimated, he was still able to keep up with war arc Kakashi! The man even assumed that Naruto would have been famous just for being somewhat involved in his death.
I think he was more than skilled enough to be a part of the Akatsuki. Even without intel, I sincerely think he beats Hidan no diff and gives Deidara a run for his money(styles make fights). But I also think joining a gang goes against the type of man he is. See, Zabuza had good reason to commit the coup. He wanted to restore his village and free his people. "My time here is done, Haku. Tonight, I cast aside the land of water. One day, I will return and seize this land and hold it in my hands. Many things must be done before that day comes and you will help me do them" from the Graduation exam that made him who he was, a cold hearted assassin that walked through life hiding his pain behind his mask "Well? Cat got your tongue? Are you so surprised to discover that I'm human? Even shinobi are human. No matter how hard we try, we always fail to escape that simple fact. Well, at least, I have failed. "
@@Breeze06He aunt doing shit to Deidara 😂
This was one of the best Naruto scaling videos I watched honestly. My favorite primary was the 3rd kazekage part I was crying bro. "Minato and hiruzen are strong, But he's not the 3rd kazekage..."
Hahaha Virhtue always coming with the heat 🔥
thanks for talking honestly about sasori, finally someone explained his true level of power, i don’t understand why so many people still think that he is weak
🫡
Itachi vs Pain
1. Itachi, Naruto & Bee Vs Nagato (controlled by Kabuto) There's a huge difference. Kabuto almost forgot about Chibaku. The real Nagato wouldn't have just stood there like a puppet. Nagato has sensory to spot Kabuto for Itachi to find. He'll easily spot Itachi nearby. Plus, Itachi had to remind Kabuto that Nagato had sensory. Itachi was finished when Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation). The real Nagato wouldn't allow Itachi's Totsuka blade to reach the core too.
2. Naruto vs Pain = Pain (after Konoha destroyed)
- Jiraiya's info
- Prep time with 2 Sage clones
- Needed help from Frog Sage to reverse summon Naruto's clones
- Tsunade's slug advising Naruto, maybe healing too
- Pain almost made Naruto lose hope when he pinned him down until Hinata SUPER triggered him.
- Minato had to reseal for Naruto, and rebuild his confidence.
- Naruto gained Sage mode after being saved by Minato.
- Naruto fought drained Pain after destroying the whole damn village!
- On top of all of this, Pain never attacked Naruto with the intention to kill. Naruto attacked purely to kill.
Naruto would've been SUPER dead if it was truly 1 vs 1. They both were taught by Jiraiya, and came from the Uzumaki clan. Pain, "You and I are sibling disciples. As students of the same master, we ought to be able to understand one another." (A joke with truth)
3. Itachi Vs Pain = Pain
Ultimately, it'll come down to who has more chakra, Nagato. Pain is too much of a powerhouse for Itachi to last. Itachi is finished once his Susano'o is gone, assuming he's nearly or is out of chakra. Think about how well Nagato was able to control the Six Paths simultaneously. Even Pain's puppet uses advanced technologies greater than ours, like lasers and homing missiles.
Amaterasu will do absolutely nothing because it'll get absorbed or pulled off immediately! Not to mention, Amaterasu could get absorbed with a scroll, like how Jiraiya did after Itachi and Kisame ran away from Jiraiya's jutsu. I'm sure Jiraiya taught him about it. Raikage dodged Amaterasu against Sasuke, which means it's not as fast as Sasuke's Kirin (lightning). Gaara easily pulled out Madara out of his Susano'o. That means Itachi won't be perfectly guarded. Maybe Pain could pull him out because when he pulls, I don't think anything must enter Susano'o to grab Itachi, however, a push seems different. If Itachi's Totsuka blade can't reach the core of Pain's Chibaku, then he'll get trapped inside along with Susano'o. Susano'o won't be able to move.
Visual genjutsu doesn't work on Rinnegan.
(Proof): Naruto chapter 677 page 9 aka page 678. Infinite Tsukuyomi does not work on three things that were stated in the manga; Perfect Susano'o, Rinnegan and the reanimated (undead). Black Zetsu, "The light can't penetrate that Susano'o? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" This means not even the Infinite Tsukuyomi can work on Perfect Susano'o and Rinnegan. Also, Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan is TWO LEVELS BEHIND Rinnegan, while the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is one level behind.
Rinnegan requires Uchiha and Senju blood to activate. It is extremely rare and powerful. Why would the author make Rinnegan so LEGENDARY? The story made it clear that it was more powerful than any eye, including Mangekyō Sharingan. All that legendary talk for what? The author, Masashi Kishimoto, stated that Pain is the strongest Akatsuki.
"The strongest man in Akatsuki heads for Naruto." Some people try to curve this by stating the time when Itachi gave Naruto his power, but obviously, it was referring to Pain because he was FINALLY being revealed. The author wouldn't ruin the hype by stating, "Oh, I was referring to Itachi" because it would stop the exciting momentum. It wouldn't follow the flow. Even Black Zetsu was surprised that Obito made a backup plan incase Pain lost because he thought that no one could defeat him. Black Zetsu watched everything from the beginning of history.
Here's another question. Why didn't Itachi use Tsukuyomi right after Nagato casted Chibaku (Planetary Devastation), nor at all? Itachi knew he had infinite chakra too. He could've disabled Nagato so easily with it. Itachi probably knew that it wouldn't have worked against Rinnegan. If he wasn't sure then he would've at least tested it out because it's better than risking death or being captured. Itachi used Amaterasu multiple times, but he wouldn't even use Tsukuyomi once? It's because he never used it that answers the question about Rinnegan able to block all visual genjutsu, including Tsukuyomi.
Kakashi never put Rinnegan-Obito under genjutsu.
Only one person can put the other person in genjutsu at a time, not both at a time. You can't have Obito put Kakashi in genjutsu WHILE Kakashi put Obito in genjutsu. It's one at a time. Obito was in CONTROL of Kakashi during that whole fight. It was all by HIS design to have Kakashi destroy his heart that Madara implanted.
There are so many ways this fight can last long. Pain will keep reviving. Itachi will have a tough time catching him. Nagato, aka 7th Pain, can summon the Gedo Statue that's even bigger than Choji and his dad. Even they needed help. If used right, it can hurt a lot. Itachi's Yata Mirror is strong, but it doesn't cover everywhere. Susano'o can only handle so much against multiple attacks simultaneously. There are ways for Pain to grab Susanoo's arm that's holding the Totsuka blade, like his lizard's tongue or other animals biting it. Pain could even absorb away the Susano'o because Susano'o is chakra construct. Pain could use his Almighty Push hidden under the ground to blow away Susano'o while Itachi is being distracted fighting others. We all saw how much Itachi lost chakra each time he used his eye powers.
Eventually, Itachi will deplete all his chakra. Pain will rip out Itachi's soul with one touch while the others attack (not all 6). Itachi can never waste his chakra against Pain. Nagato is from the Uzumaki clan, which carries the most chakra. If this fight drags, it'll come down to who has more chakra. Pain wins. (6 Pains)
Itachi's two eyes versus 6 Pains + 7th Pain with All Powers. Izanagi will be useless against Chibaku because he'll just get pulled up again. It won't matter how long his Izanagi lasts. I doubt Izanagi and Izanami link all the Pains. Itachi might have to fight blind against the 7th Pain. And that's IF Itachi could figure out how to kill him without chakra. Either way, one touch is all Nagato will need to rip out Itachi's soul.
Pull + Rip = dead.
Or another Chibaku (Planetary Devastation) while hidden and ready to absorb powers.
I understand Itachi is extremely intelligent and powerful, but Pain is just too much of a powerhouse for Itachi. Even ChatGPT stated that Pain would win (just for humor about ChatGPT, but it's true that ChatGPT stated that Pain would win).
@20:37 War arc Hiruzen did display understanding of Onoki's Dust release upon seeing Juubito's truth-seeking orbs. Hard to say if he was truly the strongest of the 5 Kage but....
I missed that tbh. That’s insane
He need to summoned Enma, yet. He didn't
Each video You make is a Banger after banger after banger. I really Enjoy that you and Virthue really got that solid Chemistry going on, Its really hard to fake that kind of thing. I really Thought The Rock/Paper/Scissors analogy for the Middle tier was extremely clever. I hope y'all Collab more often going forward!!!
Thank you so much! We’ll be doing a collab about the Chunin exams very soon 👀
I agree with everything besides Orcimaru being overall weaker than Kakuzu or Kisame. It was implied that Kakuzu was a bit stronger than ms mid Shippuden Kakashi but could have lost if Kakashi used kami and base Naruto was able to keep up with him in speed and catch him twice. This Naruto is still considered by himself to be way weaker than pre absorbed Ocrimaru Sasuke who says that the only reason he beat Orochimaru at that time was because of his arms and sickness. Orcimaru more scales to Jiraiya who can easily beat up Kohna and beat 3 paths of Pain and him and Orochimaru are considered to be equals. Pain even thought that it would be possible for Jiraiya to win if he has Intel even though I don't think that's true it's a possibility. Orochimaru also scales to old man Sartobi who is considered stronger than all the other kage that are in Shippuden. Kisame could definitely beat orochimaru if he absorbed enough chakra but it's arguably he couldn't do that. Orochimaru has better scaling has way better intelligence basically can't be killed LOL. Kisame even said he doesn't really want to fight Sannin level opponents.
I don’t think Kakuzu is overall stronger than Orochimaru, just that he’s a bad matchup for him
Holy shit yall take are really different. NoCap I’m glad y’all honestly unbiased and not high balling anyone
We’re not here to be like everyone else! 🙏🏼 Glad you like the video 🤙🏼
54:15 it actually matters
Like, if it was izanagi, he can only counter amaterasu once
Or twice, if he wants to get fully blind
Yeah but the databook all but outright states it was Kamui
@@sageofthickcalves .....then, wouldn't it be easier to say that instead of "it doesn't matter if it was this or this"
@@miranhaespada1381 yes and no. Yes it would be a more concise explanation. No because one izanagi would open up an opportunity for Obito to land a killing blow.
Obito
Nagato
Itachi
Orochimaru
Kisame
Kakuzu
Sasori
Deidara
Konan
Hidan
Zetsu
Do you ever think about how bold Deidera and Sasori taking Gaara was? They clowned on the entire sand village lol. No one could stop them, and when they got the jinchuriki they just casually walked away 😅
@@safeandsound712 yeah they’re crazy strong
I would scale the Akatsuki like this :
1 the Hight Kage level +
*Obito
*Pain
*Itachi
The Hight/mid kage level
*Orochimaru
*Kisame
*Kakuzu
(Orochimaru and Kisame can swap places in my opinion)
Mid kage level
*Sasori
*Deidara
*Konan
(Those three are complicated to organise because it depends completely how the muchup is viewed)
The Low Kage level
Zetsu
The Hight Jonin level
Hidan
(Yes i do think Zetsu is stronger than Hidan because he has more useful abilities than Hidan)
I think Zetsu has better abilities, but Hidan definitely has better physical scaling
@@sageofthickcalves
Well you are right Hidan phisical abtitudes and fighting style is much better than Zetsu
Hidan can counter most of Zetsu offensive and can get close to him
One question:
Could the Curse Jutsu of Jashine work on Zetsu ?
Zetsu
do have a better range thanks to the Wood style
Do have better perception skills when he is fused (or connected) to the earth
But Zetsu don't have real offensive means to kill his opponent
zetsus clones are definitely bottom
but the original zetsu in the kage summit showed better feats than anything hidan did imo
I’d have to disagree, but I can understand your point for sure
He may had delayed the kages from attacking Sasuke, but they're still get one shoot by Raikage physical strength
SIIIIICK video!! These are the types of list I love, and I agree with every point. Keep these comin, man!
I appreciate that, brother! 🙏🏼
This tier list seems accurate,
edit: nvm I saw Kakazu on mid tier. Still would put him in equal standing on Kisame in terms of strength. But I like the vid.
Well he’s only one spot below Kisame in mid tier, so they’re around the same power. Everyone within a given tier is relative, but we rank them in terms of who wins against the others within that tier.
@@sageofthickcalves Oh oooh. Yeah I like this tier because theres no low balling or high balling, just pure unbias tier listing.
@@sageofthickcalvesAnd on the defense of Sasoris Third Kaze puppet, I would like to say that the databooks kinda didnt include this but id like to interpret that the third kazakage is the strongest in his era, and id likely assume in his era hes On the level tad bit below Hashirama and Madara. So Sasori has a free win con against anyone, its just that everyone can clap the third kaze in the era of Naruto when a handful is quite strong. But you are on point with that tier listing.
So Sasori has a million puppets to use, and technically has the stats of third Kaze and himself combined. He falls short due to the others high aoe and stuff and more ways to crush the puppets.
Anyways, nice video
@@NoobSebot thank you so much! Yeah all of these characters are crazy strong for sure 🙏🏼
I love naruto one of the best series ever nagito itachi orochimaru and sasori are my favorites
All great picks!
Damn no Hidan and Kakuzu?
I just don’t feel comfortable putting Orochimaru below Kakazu and Kisame if we are scaling him to be equal to or stronger than MS Sasuke (Kage Summit, strongest version of MS Sasuke that Suigetsu sees). Sasuke could react to V2 Raikage, who was at the time faster than Killer Bee (after fighting Kisame, before the 4th Great Ninja War, by that time he had gotten stronger after training with Naruto). And that same Raikage is stated to be faster than jounin Minato and on top of that, Killer Bee was also speed blitzing Kisame (ex. nearly killing Kisame with a pencil, lariat that destroyed his chest cavity). So with that in mind, a faster and stronger Raikage would be able to blitz and kill Kisame (in base and considering that Killer Bee nearly did, while the Raikage broke Sasuke’s sussano, Sussano durability > Kisame base durability).
With all of that in mind, Orochimaru should be able to replicate the feats Sasuke had in the Kage Summit, if not, do better (if you scale Orochimaru over or equal to MS Sasuke at the Kage summit, which is your scaling in this video, and is reinforced by the statement that Sannin can match the 5 Kage. On top of that, Suigetsu knows enough about Orochimaru to estimate his strength, Suigetsu fought that same version of Killer Bee, witnessed Sasuke vs the Raikage, and STILL thought Orochimaru was bigger threat than the MS Sasuke at the Kage Summit. So Orochimaru is faster than Kisame and Kakazu.
He is also durable enough to tank their attacks, considering that (weakened from Soul Reaper jutsu) he was able to tank a full strength beating from Tsunade (who stayed the same strength level in the series until her mental boost after Dan revitalized her against Madara, which earlier in that fight, thhe weaker version of Tsunade was stated to be stronger than the Raikage). Kisame nor Kakazu have the AP of 7 Gates Guy, the same Guy’s Hirudora wasn’t strong enough to even damage Madara’s sussano. That same Hirudora, knocked out beat a stronger version of Kisame. Which makes Orochimaru durable enough tank anything Kisame or Kakazu could throw at him. On top of that, Samehada doesn’t like aborning foul chakra (Orochimaru’s) so Kisame couldn’t augment himself like he would as bijuu or jinchuriki.
And for strength, while Orochimaru has no true feats, his lore and the people he directly compares to have stronger feats. He was strong enough to temporarily stalemate Hiruzen using Enma, who is stated to be the strongest of the Kage (individually). A weakened Orochimaru was still stronger than the same Kabuto who was stalemating base Tsunade, which as established, is physically stronger than everyone mentioned previous. That same Kabuto is in the same tier as the Kakashi that fought Kakazu. That same Kakashi, is completely scared of Orochimaru, to the point that he instantly thought he was dead at the prospect of fighting Orochimaru.
That same Kakashi confirmed to Naruto after the Kakazu fight that he could have used Kamui to kill Kakazu and ended the fight by himself, but was preserving it due to not wanting to be fatigued while battling against Hidan. The fact that Kakashi was holding back (not using MS) against Kakazu and was still somewhat confident, but pissed himself whenever he saw Orochimaru is telling enough narrative wise. Sage Jiraiya (which in base already scales above the 5 Kage individually) is stated to be in the same tier as hydra Orochimaru, which just further proves Orochimaru is stronger than Kage Summit Raikage and Killer Bee by extension. Part 1/Healthy Orochimaru > Kage Summit MS Sasuke >= Raikage > Pre 4th Great Ninja war Killer Bee => Kisame > Kakazu.
And for Kisame vs Kakazu, I fully support your agreements besides Kakazu’s win con. Killer Bee, MS Sasuke, and The Raikage all have stronger lightning style than that version of Kakashi that fought Kakazu, and Kisame was able to tank Killer Bee’s strongest lightning style jutsu and keep fighting. Plus on top of that, Samehada has absorbed larger quantities of chakra from Killer Bee in their fight than anything either Kakazu or Orochimaru could produce.
Only other that irked was setting the ceiling of Kakazu’s speed at KCM 1. After Itachi departed from Naruto, he literally was so fatigued he was about pass out. He didn’t get to catch a break because Obito and his 6 paths showed up. The jinchuriki paths were buffed already due to wielding the Mangekyo and rinnegan, which is already proven to enhance all forms of the wielders in all forms from base to when the dojutsu is activated (ex. Resurrected Madara implanting a rinngean and changing the tide of the fight, Sasuke gaining MS made him stronger than when he had absorbed Orochimaru). The 6 paths of Obito were heavily buffed due to the dojutsuand with Naruto being heavily fatigued. Kakazu most consistent speed is faster than base sharingan Kakashi, considering he had pinned Kakashi and nearly killed him directly 1v1 (anime + manga).
I would honestly argue that Kakazu is better fit in a the low tier, simply due to not being really comparable to a later series Kisame who is a match for stronger versions of Guy and Kakashi, and inferior the sannin, feats and narratively. (Base Part 1 Orchimaru >= Jiraiya >= Tsunade > Raikage (ex. had to be boosted by Ohnoki to be relative with 100 Heals Tsunade against Madara) > Killer Bee (Pre 4th Ninja War) => Kisame > Kakazu. An incomplete rasenshuriken was strong enough to put down a slightly fatigued, slight weaker, but final form Kakazu, never mind a complete rasenshuriken. A stronger version of Naruto with a complete rasenshuriken couldn’t even incapacitate edo tensei 3rd Raikage, who is equal to if not slightly less stronger version of the 4th Ninja War Raikage (who was weaker than his Kage Summit self). Naruto was narratively still weaker than base Jiraiya who is stated to be on par with Orochimaru. Plus a less proficient and weaker Kakashi had no doubts about killing Kakazu, was strong enough later in the series to match MS Sasuke (Post Danzo and relative if not equal to Sage Naruto) and V2 versions of heavily buffed jinchurikis, while having the proficiency to kamui bijuu bombs, bijuu, KCM Naruto rasengans, and Truth Seeking Orbs. Part 1/Healthy Orochimaru > 4th Ninja War 6-7 Gates Guy = 4th Ninja War Kakashi > Kismae >>>> Kakazu
Your reasoning is sound for sure, but the problem is Orochimaru doesn’t have any AP feats that would lead me to believe he could put Kakuzu down.
@@sageofthickcalvesnarratively @@sageofthickcalvesLike Sasuke finally surpassing Orochimaru to fight Itachi or Naruto surpassing Jiraiya to pain. @@sageofthickcalvescouple of @@sageofthickcalves @@sageofthickcalvess that I was debating with my friends are: Itachi vs Nagato (Healthy + Prime), Gaara vs Kisame (It’s actually closer than one would think), n (Healthy, no edo tensei) Orochimaru + Imperfect Sage Jiraiya vs Sage Naruto (Pain Arc) + MS Sasuke (Post Danzo fight, but with blindness just starting)
One of the main problems with the video I see are deidara and Konan, konan only loses to jiraiya so easily because he has a perfect counter to her and she doesn’t attempt to dodge his oil just like his fire, without that Konan would be a much bigger problem as we see she’s able to catch obito off guard and damage him greatly and Deidara before even stating he’s weaker than Sasori talks about a plan and then purposely makes naruto Angry and lured him out alone and after wards when kakashi follows hes states that and then gets excited when naruto tells kakashi to go back to fight sasori and even after that he’s annoyed when kakashi regroups with naruto to cool him down, making his statement come off as untrue or at the very least said with context of him trying to either kill or capture naruto himself with no outside distractions instead of being and indicator of his strength
The issue with Konan and Deidara is they’re relatively slow in comparison to the others. They’re also not super versatile in their fighting styles. It’s just really hard to put either of them above the characters in the tiers above them.
@@sageofthickcalves Konan speed is relative to Obito, which is absolutely insane. She clearly never fought seriously with Jiraiya since she was never in danger since Pain was there. Deidara speed scales to Itachi through Sasuke. By contrast, Kakuzu has Kakashi speed at best, with tons of jonin anti-feats.
@@williamt8234 her speed isn’t relative to Obito’s. You gotta re-read that fight. There’s not a moment that shows them being relative. As much as I’d like to agree and hype her up, it would just be disingenuous. I did think that before going back and reading the fight again, though.
@@sageofthickcalvesthanks for saying it Konan doesn’t have any good speed feats
@@kidgoku3763 just speaking the truth here. If she were fast, she wouldn’t have been able to get hit by base Jiraiya’s attacks
AYYY MY BOY, I JUST STARTED WATCHING, MB FOR NOT BEING HERE 1ST SECOND, I already got the ranking, 1.Hidan. 2 through, idk, 10. Fodder
Just got too the "Garbage tier" I swear if I heard Hidan i would've clicked off, but idk why I didn't think of White Zetsu.
The Garbage the is white zetsu reasoning made sense and was 100% Factual
Now Hidan at the bottom of the list, Personally, I Don't agree with, as yes he has shown to not have an answer to Flying combatants, yet Like how the panels / animation you showed on the background of the video, It showed how Fast / How aggressive he is when he's in action, and him clashing with Kakashi and Surviving a Wind Pressure attack from Kakazus Hearts mid fight is nothing to Scoff at, But what I'd like too bring up is Environment, as he's Fast enough too scale probably Hill / Small mountain sized Trees and like he showed during his fight with Yuugito, he's pretty sneaky as he hides behind his rock. I'd also like to bring up is that all Hidan needs is a touch / (literally) a lick of Blood to disassemble and just put the other fighter out of commission, But im not gonna sit here and say Konan just can't move out of the way of Hidans attacks, but I'd say it's much closer then one might think. Also He has good pain endurance and could handle a paper cut, But I'd like to mention that Hidan (in terms of Combat skill) is easily the best out of all the akatsuki, and yes I am biased with that, also.
Hidan > Asuma > Choza ~ Kinkaku >~ Tired Tobirama (you could say a Tired Tobirama is comparable to the Edo Tobi that fought Hiruzen, Also Im gonna say a Tired Tobirama is and the only way someone like Kinkaku and Ginkaku Killed Tobirama.)
MB for the essay, just a Hidan Enjoyer.
@@Mr_G.B. haha I rock with it bro. Hidan video coming soon 🙏🏼
@@sageofthickcalves YES, W, best Naruto YTber on the spectrum rn, love how you actually answer questions / Comments, know now that I’m now gonna be a Long time Viewer. Also I’d like too say The 3rd Kazekage being above everybody during his time is Probably Sand Bullshit, and Let’s be honest, someone like Raasa is currently stronger then 3rd Kazekage, just cause of Showings. Statements don’t get you Past real Showings.
@@Mr_G.B. I appreciate you bro! Gonna be responding to comments as much as I can for as long as I do this 🤙🏼
I'm pretty sure Orochimaru tanked that jutsu he was disguised so it wasn't his actual skin and he didn't even use his oral rebirth he just fought with his disguised ripped and took it off when he met Anko and he was severely holding back to test Sasuke which we know character's can hold back their reactions because during the Sasuke fight Itachi didn't dodge the rigged shiruken so let's not over blow what all things considered a fight Orochimaru did not take serious at all
I agree with all of that. My point was he took damage, so Kakuzu can damage him. I genuinely think a fight between the two would be one of the longest fights we’ve seen, since neither of them have one shot potential against the other. They’re so tanky
@@sageofthickcalvesyeah but I really think you put him too high like I still have no confidence in him taking down Deidara his high tier bombs aren't something to scoff at and I think 3 of them are guaranteed one shots and I think his sand village wiping bomb could take him out I also think hebi Sasuke is strongly showed to be Superior to him since the gap between Naruto and Sasuke was way too large and while tanking that fire jutsu is something a bijuu blast from 4 tails V2 Naruto should be superior considering the huge gap in the tailed beast hierarchy when it comes to Kurama
@@hoifzf Kakuzu’s durability is no joke. Like I said in the video, he got a literal mountain dropped on him and survived. The only reason the rasenshuriken was implied to have harmed him as badly as it did was because of how it works, not necessarily just it’s AP. And it still only took out 3 hearts. Had it not severed his chakra network, he would’ve still been able to fight.
As far as Deidara, the only things he has that should be able to severely damage Kakuzu are c4 and c0. Kakuzu tanking attacks from a fully transformed 2 tails without his diamond morph is enough evidence for that. He also can eliminate Deidara’s range advantage with the masks.
And as far as Orochimaru, I think your scaling on a baseline level is sound, but as you dig deeper you see a lot of issues with just doing direct character scaling. First, there’s a decent gap in their durability. I’d like to point out that Orochimaru didn’t tank the bijuudama, despite taking some power off of it with the rashiman gates. He had to use the body replacement immediately after. So his durability is a good deal below that bijuudama. Considering the fact that kakuzu survived Naruto’s rasenshuriken, which is directly compared to Minato’s rasengan, which stalemated a bijuudama that’s probably of similar power to the 4 tails Naruto one, I’d say a strong argument could be made that Kakuzu has better base durability than Orochimaru. And as for AP, as stated in the video, Orochimaru doesn’t have anything that is guaranteed to be able to take down kakuzu, whereas Kakuzu’s jutsu being able to at least harm him pretty badly is a good indication that he could put him down with enough energy put into it.
Again, I think that it would be a LONG fight that would come down to attrition. However, I just see Kakuzu’s superior durability and AP leading to him getting the win, since there’s nothing in Orochimaru’s arsenal that we can point to as a legitimate win condition. I mean feel free to correct me if I’m missing something. Can you think of anything Orochimaru has in his bag that would be a legitimate win con vs Kakuzu’s bijuu-level durability?
@@sageofthickcalves I honestly don't think kakazu is taking Deidara's attacks as mountain destroying power is something I think Deidara is capable of and Orochimaru is the person who trained Sasuke strong lightning style would destroy the diamond armor I'm pretty sure his kusanagi would be capable with enhancing it with an element being childs play I also believe Orochimaru could dodge his attacks since Orochimaru was blatantly superior to kakashi as well with kakashi not daring to try him with a flex of his KI shaking him to his core though back then he didn't have kamui and Orochimaru is implied to be above jiraiya who Kakashi still thought himself inferior to by the pain arc which is saying something Orochimaru can tank attacks and putting him below the 2 tails is a super low ball jinchuriki are stated to be stronger transformed with jinchuriki and I highly doubt the 2 tails is so much more powerful than the one tails which was held off by kid Naruto and gamabunta in part 1 so I wouldn't hype him catching the paw of the second weakest tailed beast
Also kakazu surviving isn't that great since he was even able to get up and move he would have slowly bled out anyway so that isn't much of a buff for him and I'm confident if Orochimaru fought that team by himself he'd actually be able to take care of them easily sure choji is strong but you really think a team like that can take out the sannin? Naruto didn't even surpass jiraiya until sage mode which everyone had to stay out the fight because of the gap in power and a sick Orochimaru is states to be above the hebi Sasuke which perception blitzed team 7 and I don't see how being fatigued messed up their eye sight also while I get Naruto trained I doubt he got so much stronger since he still saw himself below the Sasuke that's still below the same sick Orochimaru who you claim has trash durability Orochimaru couldn't do anything with the Hydra form because he got sealed and faced a far stronger opponent but if we're gonna validate statements Orochimaru definitely is a great deal stronger since before he realized what he got stabbed by he thought the susano'o blade meant nothing which could mean he has higher regeneration I'm confident the sannin themselves can take down bijuu like the 2 tails which I'm sure isn't that much stronger than the one tails
No shade but I'm hope your not trying to sound different with your scaling on purpose but visualizing how these fights would go some of these characters need to be higher and kakazu definitely doesn't belong that high it's just something wrong with how the ranking looks with him I watched the noodles vs six video and I honestly think the "raw durability" thing is taken waay too seriously he's strong but his direct way of fighting honestly isn't a good match I also think Konan should be above or between kakazu and Deidara since that Obito feat should definitely be taken seriously I also believe the rennigan gives durability amps because Sasuke would be slaughtered by Madara if it didn't also he's faster and his attacks are stronger too
@@hoifzf
- I do think Deidara’s c0 is mountain level, but nothing else.
- We don’t have any evidence that Orochimaru trained Sasuke in Lightning style, but he’d be smart enough to figure out that lightning works against it. Just not sure he has lightning style on the level of raikiri.
- Orochimaru being superior to Kakashi in part 1 doesn’t matter here, since it’s shippuden and the gap has closed significantly, if not entirely (minus summons).
- Kakashi only thought himself inferior to Jiraiya because he wrongly thought Jiraiya fought all six paths at once. Again, he might still be below sanin tier at that point, but he’s pretty close.
- Bijuu are said to be stronger with a jinchuriki, but that applies to the 2 tails. Yugito was still the jinchuriki, she just did a full transformation. Also, there’s no indication that the bijuu power goes up with tails. That’s a common misconception. It’s only ever shown that Gyuuki and Kurama are the strongest, but the rest all have relative feats. That said, fully transformed Matatabi still has better feats in terms of AP and DC than 4 tails Naruto.
- Kakuzu wouldn’t have bled out. That’s not how his body works. The reason he couldn’t move is because the rasenshuriken attacks you on a molecular level, severing your chakra network. If it didn’t have that hax, he would’ve been fine, albeit with just one heart left.
- I think Orochimaru might have a better chance there due to his summons, but I’m not so sure. Kakashi has better speed scaling with his raikiri at that point, and he’d probably be more likely to use his MS. But again, it’s not about who’s overall stronger between Orochimaru and Kakuzu. It’s about who would win in a battle between the two. Orochimaru has just never shown anything in his arsenal with that level of power. His best bet is his snakes.
- Naruto does surpass Jiraiya with sage mode, but his base is still lower than Jiraiya’s, in terms of showings.
- The Hebi Sasuke feat doesn’t apply here because Naruto was Kyuubi amped during the Kakuzu fight and had gotten stronger in base. Also, Naruto was clearly mental nerfed. I do think he was weaker than Sasuke, though.
- Woah when did I say Orochimaru has trash durability??? I stated both Orochimaru and Kakuzu are tanks. I just think Kakuzu’s durability feats are better. Let’s not put words in each others mouths.
- The Hydra might be a win condition, we just have zero feats from it.
- I’m sure the sanin can probably take down bijuu, but both Jiraiya and Orochimaru are below 4 tails Naruto (at least in their base forms), and I don’t think anything suggests that Naruto is stronger than fully transformed Matatabi.
- Not trying to be different, just using the feats and statements to come to fact-based conclusions.
- Yeah I was making a joke of Noodles’s raw durability points the whole video. I don’t agree he’s above Pain, like Noodles asserted. But again, name me ONE attack Orochimaru has shown to use that has the AP to take down Kakuzu. It has to be stronger than the rasenshuriken.
- Konan just isn’t fast enough
- Sasuke is a bad example to use there because he also got six paths chakra from Hagoromo. But I do think it’s possible the Rinnegan boosts durability, it’s just not confirmed
Here’s the deal, Orochimaru is super strong and if I were ranking it just based on power, he’d be above Kakuzu. But that’s why we did tiers. Everyone in a given tier are pretty relative to one another, but we rank them in terms of who beats the others in a fight. And I’m sorry, but Orochimaru simply has never shown the attack potency to put down someone like kakuzu, whereas kakuzu has at least shown the ability to severely wound Orochimaru.
People tend to forget when Zetsu went for the Daimyos, where he fought a Kage, a guy with speed relative to KCM Naruto, and several others at once: ua-cam.com/video/3Gr-94idK9A/v-deo.html
And do not even get me started on how forgotten Guru Guru vs. Taka, Orochimaru, the Hokage, and pretty much the whole alliance is: ua-cam.com/video/__OZF0DyECo/v-deo.html
Yeah the reason I didn’t include those are because the first one doesn’t happen in the manga and the second one is Zetsu using Yamato as a vessel to increase his power.
In the manga, the first instance is literally just shown as him getting blitzed by Mei and then detecting Naruto and Bee’s chakra signatures and sending the message. So, since it’s vastly different, I tend to lean toward the manga. If we take it into consideration, though, he’s definitely up in low tier with Hidan, Sasori, Konan, and Deidara.
Yooo been waiting for this let’s gooooo
Yessirrr! Lmk what you think 🙏🏼
I’d say Orochimaru would win, cause of Reanimation. But if you don’t give him that then probably Kakazu. In theory Orochimaru would have Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato.
Yeah just not fair to give one character prep and not the other
he doesn't have minato,he's in the belly of the reaper
1: Obito
2: Pain
3: Itachi
[Gap]
4: Kisame
[Gap]
5: Sasuke
6: Orochimaru
7: Sasori
8: Deidara
[Gap]
9: Kakuzu
10: Konan
[Gap]
11: Hidan
[Gap]
12: Zetsu
Not bad
Since I got one crazy ass Ranking and a truly Untypical, List.
I’ll just post it ere as your list wasn’t crazy enough, and I have my Reasons why it’s like this.
1.Obito
2.Pain
3.Transformed Kisame
4.Kakuzu
5.Hidan
6.Kisame
7.Itachi (Sick)
8.Orochimaru
9.Deidara
10.Sasori
11.Konan.
12.Zetsu.
Hidans the Goat, 🧍♂️
I’m gonna need to confiscate the drugs you’re taking my dude
@@sageofthickcalves Hear me Out, Hidans Scythe Blitzes Deidaras monologuing, 🧍♂️ Sasori Can’t really fly, or I forgot, also Sasori Does Bleed, as he has a Heart, and Hidans speed is Underrated, as he was able to Keep Kakashi on the Defensive in the Anime which is Soft canon and doesn’t Contradict the Story, And Itachi would go Blind after 1 Tsukiyomi, and like 2 Amaterasus in 1 fight, this is an Exaggeration, also his fight with Sasuke was literally Planned from Start to finish, also if we put this in a Gauntlet Sense, Hidan could deadass just Lick the Blood off the floor And Kill possibly anybody, but that won’t count in my Explanation, Itachi (as an Akatsuki)’s Susanno isn’t the fastest enough to Tag Hidan, Hidan also isn’t Stupid enough to just run in and try and attack it, also Itachi goes blind after One use of the Susanno, And I’d also like to mention Itachi and Uchiha in-General bleed a lot, Via the eyes, and somehow always leave a Fight with blood coming out of there Mouth’s, now I ain’t the smartest fellow but I like to bring up the idea of Hidan just licking it off the floor and just doing his Ritual and Stabbing Himself, Also Ik Tsukiyomi could possibly clear, but you could really say that about anybody in the Akatsuki. Also Hidan Just, Gets Excited, at the idea of pain, shouldn’t be much of a Hinderance for Hidan as it is For the guy who couldn’t beat Blood.🧍♂️ Also Kakuzu 5v1’s and Demolishes, and Kisame would just take Samehada and Just dog on the Clown (Itachi), and Yes I don’t like Itachi, but at the same Time, Itachi is a Victim of Time and Lack of Chakra. While Kisame is Practically Naruto but a Shark and Hidans Fucking Immortal, Also Kakuzu could easily Outlast Itachi, as Ik his hearts ain’t the strongest but Nor is Itachi the fastest, also yes I forgot Itachis Speed Feats, if you’d like to remind me Sage, that’s if you read this.
Also I’d like to Bring up this scale I’ve tooken from Someone else.
Hidan>Asuma>Choza~V2 Kinkaku>Raikage = Bee > Kyubi Cloak Clone Naruto = 3rd Raikage Edo
Let me clarify why This is correct, and since I haven’t heard anybody disprove it, I will state it as Correct
Asuma has Been said to be Above Choza, As Asuma had the best Combat Skill in the entirety of the Village, And as an Edo Damaged Choza who Previously Suffered no Massive Injuries Against A V2 cloak Kinkaku which he held back, Ay Stated that he couldn’t beat Kinkaku By himself without a So6p tool, Bee is = to Raikage, Clone Kyubi other words Naruto is Equal to Edo 3rd Raikage, whose below Ay and Bee.
And with This Sort of, dunno whatchacallit, Scaling, It would theoretically Put him Above Someone Like Kisame, 🎅🏿 “I got a plan Arthur”
@@Mr_G.B. there are a few misinterpretations here tbh. I honestly don’t want to take the time to go through the whole scaling tree, but I’ll point out the issues that immediately jump out to me.
1: Hidan doesn’t scale above Asuma. He only beat him via his hax, not by simply scaling higher. They were relative in terms of speed and, had Hidan not had his immortality hax, he probably would’ve lost.
2: Asuma is said to have the highest close combat skill of the Jonin, not the highest combat skill overall. Choza is actually said to have the highest war potential in the Leaf. I also think it’s unfair to take scaling and from databooks 1 and 2 and apply them to events that happen during the period the 4th databook covers.
3: Ay was worried about taking down BOTH of the gold and silver brothers, and his statements seem to imply that the main thing he was scared of was the sacred tools.
@@sageofthickcalves so It’d go more like,
Hidan >~ Asuma ~ Choza ~ V2 Kinkaku, dunno where Ay would go. As you didn’t make it too obvious.
You guys are the first and only people to ever bring up how jokingly Hidan and kakuzu were discrediting themselves.
🫡
@@sageofthickcalves wish kishimoto wasn’t sick around that time. I loved that arc.
@@jason15212 I agree
Sage when it comes to putting Virthue in the hot seat: I got one more in me
🤣🤣🤣
I would love to see you do videos on Kabuto and Deidara
I’ve got one in the works for each of them 🙏🏼
Dinner and a long naruto video 👌🏻
Do you prefer these 45 minute to 1 hour long videos over the 30 minutes or less ones? Trying to get a gauge for what you guys want more of 🙏🏼
@@sageofthickcalvesthese long format Videos are Absolute gold but I think it really depends on the topic
@@cloversgood_luck9290 gotcha 🤙🏼
@@cloversgood_luck9290 agreed!
W take and collab
Let’s gooooo 🙏🏼 I appreciate you
Hidan is definitely underrated
Best video on YT🔥
You already knooooowwww
Outside of High Tier, who could possible do as much damage to Obito as Konan did (without even using her prep time setup)?
Without prep? I think the best bet might be Sasori because he can keep pressure on Obito with his puppets, forcing him to phase continuously. Then, once his timer runs out, tag him with poison. However, this is only if he has knowledge of the time limit.
@@sageofthickcalvesintangibility is a strong counter for all attacks and than kamuis the core sense he should be able to see the chakra eminating from it. Poison is a unknown but a mist like amount of poision while battling him would be a good prep attack still kamui conon knew him for years with him admitingly half-assing while inittionally fighting. She got lucky itachi is probably the only that if had her intel would have put down perminitly.
Midway through the video, towards the end of kakuzu, but where do you think war arc orochimaru scales? Where would he be on this list? Or boruto era lol
War arc would be at the top of mid tier probably. He’s featless, but adding Zetsu cells, giving him his arms their functionality, and the weird EMS Sasuke statement all lead me to believe he should be higher than the others in mid tier.
Boruto era Orochimaru is stronger than anyone on this list. He probably still loses to Obito due to hax, but defeating a Kara member scales him above everyone here fairly easily. Great question!
@@sageofthickcalves Orochimaru da goat
Black Zetsu has pretty decent woodstyle ability, he goes against Naruto, Mei, that nerd with the big sword and a squad of other shenobi.
In the manga it’s a super brief exchange that he loses pretty badly, but the anime seems much more impressive. Due to that, I side with the manga material. That said, he’s WAY below everyone else on here, even with that showing
Thanks for responding, genuinely didn't expect you to but I still stand by what I said, basically, how long would you expect let's say Hidan to stand against a Kage (even ifn it is the weakest one) plus a Naruto clone plus assitance, I would expect almost no time at all, I do think you're sleeping on black zetsu a bit (he's still low tier akatuke in my opinion just not garbage tier).@@sageofthickcalves
@@danielinskip8427 I can see why you say that, but you should definitely read the manga version of the fight 🙏🏼
I appreciate the encouragement but I just don't enjoy manga and comic books as a format.@@sageofthickcalves
Okay I'll go read it now.....is there like a website where I can read manga?@@sageofthickcalves
I tnink the pushback of the Obito vs Itachi mostly stems from their interaction in the road to ninja movie. Itachi eluding to countering Kamui with genjutsu and Obito avoid confrontation at all cost. I still think Obito is the strongest.
Yeah it’s just weird because all of the feats point in Obito’s direction statements are super useful, but I never understood people using them to supersede feats
I agree, Obito is that guy 100%
🎯
Virhtue the goat 🔥
Bro comes with the sauce 🔥 Future collabs incoming 🤙🏼
I don’t think kakuzu has a way of permanently killing Orochimaru that’s the issue with him. Hell very few people do. He’s just a weird match up but I guess he can’t hurt kakuzu either .
Yeah it’s a weird matchup
Theoretically.... Wouldn't Izanami work against Obito?
Izanami hard-counters Izanagi & of course Kamui is ineffective against it since it's a genjutsu. Izanami works on anyone who has ambitions of "changing" or "defying" the world, in which Obito falls into both categories since he does use Izanagi & technically, the Eye of the Moon Plan would count as "defying / changing" the world as the world itself would go into an eternally-long genjutsu of humanity's dreams.
So technically, Izanami is a win condition for Obito. In fact, if Edo Itachi fought Obito, he would probably either eliminate Obito from the war itself or turn him onto the side of the Allied Shinobi Forces & against Madara as well as Kabuto (much earlier in the war) simply because of Izanami.
Itachi himself could've literally changed the War Arc itself with one simple jutsu.
Izanami seems to require physical contact of some kind. It’s called “a shared physical experience”, but it sort of plays out like physical contact
I agree with most of the ponta honestly think Konan goes above Sasori
Ok so about sasori
(I love ur content btw just trynna give some insight)
No matter what you say there is no way kakuzu is above sasori in any regard let alone deidara Kakuzu was very much relative to early pt2 kakashi, kakashi dint even feel the need to use kamui on kakuzu until the end. Im not saying early pt2 kakashi and kakuzu are relative but they arent that far off. With that same logic already there is no way kakuzu is above either deidara or sasori. Also don't underestimate granny chiyo she is easily sannin level if not above that. She used sakuras sannin level ap to shatter his puppets and sasori was holding back the entire match. I dont even see kakuzu beating granny chiyo by himself, i just dont understand how sasori and kisame arent in the same tier i feel like they are interchangeable
Thank you! I appreciate you 🙏🏼
Yeah I just think Kakuzu’s scaling is pretty solid tbh. The biggest things, though, are his versatility, AP, and multiple lives. I’m just not sure Sasori or Deidara could put him down for good before he gets them (aside from C0, of course). I do think both Sasori and Deidara having the ability to fight at long range helps them against most people, but not really against kakuzu. I do think they have win cons for sure, though.
i will be fair to kakashi he is definitely fast enough to react to the masks jutsus and should’ve kamui’d kakuzus head for the few seconds he was in shadow possession but everytime he interacts with kakuzu in taijutsu or EGF he gets clapped and even when he tells naruto he could’ve used his kamui he thinks back to when kakuzus shooting the wind+fire combo, not when he was on the floor hoping shikamaru came in clutch implying if it weren’t for hidan kakashi would’ve been dead
and the reason C4 and poison wouldn’t work is because of kakuzus anatomy, everytime he splits his body parts no bones, organs or blood is shown
its also possible that kakuzu’s hearts can hide their chakra presence bcz kakashi wasn’t able to sense 4 other hearts after he lands the raikiri
for the sasori stuff its possible chiyo was also holding back and it makes sense narratively because sasori is her grandson but she doesn’t bring out chikamatsus puppets until sasori reattaches himself after almost killing her
also just by comparing arsenals and speed relativity chiyo can’t really handle any of the sanin in a 1v1
@@bigcarnotaurus8857 I interpret the Kakashi stuff a bit differently, but yeah I do think the manga implies that Kakashi is a tad below Kakuzu. Keep in mind, though, Kakashi came in below 100% and also essentially had to babysit most of that fight. He had to waste 2 raikiris saving team 10 from the false darkness, and that’s just one instance. Plus, when Kakuzu gets him with his cords, it’s not really a speed blitz as much as it is a crafty tactic. He uses the fire as a distraction and sneaks in below to grab Kakashi.
And yeah Sasori is a monster for sure
Chiyo is badass fought a suicide mission to terminate her only connection aside from the sand as a whole and her brother i think. She put him down no hesitation when her chance appeared just like her phycopathic grandchild tried and slightly succeded, held the sand up through wars and tragedies and gave her life for the future with no hesitation. She deserves the hype and lore and this just scales sasori higher sense i believe he excelled past her in everything but experince.
@@DakotaCoughlin literally she is incredible, she actually scales way higher than people think it's crazy that people think she loses to base sharingon kakashi
I got one for you... what if the akatsuki had tailed beast in them??? like one tails paired with deidara or hidan with the two tails
The world would be ash 🤣
@@sageofthickcalves true but the short answer wouldn't be any fun, like would a beast be able to heal itachi or manage a headless hidan, or give kakuzu's heart monsters Chakara to launch their own beast balls?
@@GreyplayComics I’m gonna do a video on this now for sure
@@sageofthickcalves hell yeah, I can't wait
@@GreyplayComics just spent the last hour making a thumbnail for that video because I’m stoked 🤣
Where did you find the scan at 52:20
You can search for it, but another creator informed me that it’s a mistranslation
@@sageofthickcalves ok thanks
@@mmltpb14 no problem!
Deidara took out Gaara while trying to not kill him and damn near stalemated Hebi Sasuke. Sasori beat Kankuro and lost to the team of Chiyo and Sakura. I’m not sure how ya’ll determined that Sasori is stronger than Deidara. Even Sasori’s ultimate jutsu ended up being underwhelming. Deidara has a more potent arsenal and better feats. Let’s not take a statement made by a nineteen year old about his much older superior to heart to that degree.
Edit: No offense intended. I was being entirely serious. Like I said in the comment section for another video - you’re my favorite Naruto based content creator.
@@nocturne311 yeah this video is super old. Keep that in mind
Thank you for not putting Hidan below Zetsu
Anyone doing that needs their head checked tbh
My only problems are Konan, Deidara and Orochimaru.
WA Konan should be at least V2 Ay at least in reaction and speed since she can stop Obito from going into the kamui dimension something that Naruto in kcm1 couldn't do and was able to react to sage mode Naruto. Deidara saying that Sasori is stronger was clearly a lie, he told Sasori that he would lure Naruto so he can capture him and then laughs when Naruto said that he was going to fight him alone, he scales to oro hebi sasuke who can blitz the girl that was reacting to Sasori's iron sand and hundred puppets. Orochimaru is hard but his peak (War arc or part 1) should be faster than Kakuzu who can't hear Naruto comming behind him dispite having a jet turbine on his hand. His ninjutsu was dodged by Ino, oral ribirth should heal everything Kakuzu trow at him and the kusanagi is perfect to pierce him from below just like he did to 4 tails
If you use the wacky noodles scaling than Kakuzu wins, but Edo Yugito was clearly stronger than her alive self. I don't know if Swagkage talked about this but the six paths were all chunin/jounin level at best then sudenly they're sage mode Jiraiya level when the animal path back then couldn't scratch jounin Jiraiya so this jutsu clearly amps the body that you are using by infusing your own chakra and Obito is stronger than Nagato so just do the math
I made it too long my bad lol
You’re good haha. I just think the Konan scaling to Obito stuff just doesn’t work imo because Obito outright stated that he underestimated her. Since he’s clearly not going all out, we can’t say for certain that any of her physical feats against him genuinely scale that high.
@@sageofthickcalves nah i don't think she scales to him either but she was able to stop kamui mid teleportation, Minato need FTG to do that and grab his body before he could materialize out of the paper sea. The Storm Revolution cutscenes is supposed to be manga canon if you want consider that as well
@@opticblastx well it’s stated that he can change the speed of Kamui, so it’s still not concrete
@@sageofthickcalves wait really? I tought it only got faster when he gained six paths chakra
@@opticblastx yeah when he failed to teleport Minato the first time, he said that he’d have to just do it faster next time
I was expecting Hidan for garbage tier.
Why do people always forget about orochimarus reanimation jutsu?
And how many people in the akatsuki can defeat them quite a
1pain because of the rinegan roles
2.itachi with the sword of totsuka
3.obito because of kamui and that's also debatable
Plus remember that the reanimation requires no more Chakra once it's castered
Orochimaru needs prep for Edo
What kind of preparation?
@@nhlanhlavusumuzimsibi867 has to have bodies prepared and DNA
Sasori is stronger than Kakuzu
Second Highest akatsuki databook stats After Itachi (34.5) while Kakuzu got 32
Conquered a nation
Defeated strongest kazekage ever
Stated to be superior than Deidara whom also was stated to be quite strong by Kisame
The databook ratings suggest kid Neji is faster than Hiruzen. They’re a useful tool to show growth for characters throughout the series, but not for comparing characters at any given time.
Sasori is a beast, but he probably doesn’t have the AP to put down Kakuzu, while Kakuzu definitely has the AP to put down Sasori. Also, his poison wouldn’t work because of Kakuzu’s physiology.
In terms of scaling:
Speed: Kakuzu (scales to raikiri Kakashi)
AP: Probably relative (iron sand vs Kakuzu’s jutsu arsenal)
Durability: Kakuzu (tailed beast/mountain level)
Intellect: Kakuzu (stated and shown in the manga and databooks to be incredibly smart)
Chakra/Stamina: Kakuzu (5 hearts with massive chakra reserves)
Hax: Sasori (poison, but it wouldn’t affect Kakuzu)
Kakuzu just has way better showings. Kakashi is clearly MUCH stronger than Sakura at that point in the series and Kakuzu showed relativity or even superiority to Kakashi, while Sasori was bested by Sakura with some help from Chiyo.
Kisame > Pre-War Killer Bee > Taka Sasuke > Rasenshuriken Naruto > Kakuzu. Not too hard to scale Kisame above Kakuzu.
@@nocturne311 1: Why is Taka Sasuke > rasenshuriken Naruto?
2: Why is rasenshuriken Naruto > Kakuzu? He had a ton of help taking him down and utilized hax to do it that Kisame wouldn’t have access to.
3: Why is Kisame > Pre-War Bee? Bee had to hold back because he didn’t want to draw his brother’s attention.
i do wanna say sasuke tried slicing deidara twice before he pulled out his C2 dragon and failed
Ultimately the only time he actually landed a hit on deidara with anything in his arsenal was his fist when he used genjutsu on deidara and his left eye didn’t dissipate it in time, and i think this is consistent to his speed scaling because we do later see him keeping up with onoki as an edo tensei on his bird
i recently have came to the conclusion that the speed scaling in naruto is either really inconsistent or just not that big of a gap and for the sake of closer matchups i hope people come to the same conclusion
26:10 i know she wasn’t brought up as a perfect jinchuriki when they talk about bee and yagura but hey the minato manga made han and roshi perfect jinchuriki so i guess maybe all of them were lmao
Yeah speed scaling is weird. I think there are times when there’s a blatant gap, such as Deidara and Sasuke, but there’s usually a statement of some kind to go along with the feats. In that fight, Deidara actually thinks to himself that Sasuke is really fast before taking to the sky.
32:38 triple rashmon defence gg, keep in mind weakened & no arms
I mean that would work if kakuzu couldn’t surround him with the masks and attack from all sides.
@@sageofthickcalves would you discord debate Kakazu vs Oro
@@brxyn3937 yeah probably if it worked with my schedule
@@sageofthickcalves sweet I live in GMT time zone lmk I think imma cook you on this one >:)
not watched yet but kisame 4th or bust 😆😆
Haha I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised 🙏🏼
Hashirama and Tobirama have all 5 as well
YOu vastly undersold orohimaru by a mile not gonna lie
Just don’t think a guy who only scales to old man Hiruzen when he has prep is on the level of Minato
@@sageofthickcalves Yes but he is still above Kakuzu
@@Redoren966 I agree, in terms of power scaling. I just think he’s a bad matchup for Oro
@@sageofthickcalves Its just weird as most of his feats don't really do too much damage to less durable people not to mention Oro survived stronger people
@@Redoren966 well his jutsu basically have to be dodged or countered with other high level ninjutsu. For example, Kakashi had to use two raikiri (S rank ninjutsu) to stop his false darkness. If that hits Orochimaru, it’s at the very least making him switch bodies.
No Juzo Biwa 😢
a filler featless character,yeah what a shame he wasn't included
@@xxxtimeghostxxx don’t be a hater
I think it’s time we as a Naruto community stop using the data books. At this point there are multiple statements in them that are just wrong lol
I don’t think it’s wise to stop using them, since Kishimoto writes them. However, the manga feats supersede the databook statements. I think taking both into account is wise, but always side with the original material if there’s a contradiction
I think Deidara's bombs should beat kakazu also during the kakashi and Naruto chase down he stated he didn't have enough clay since he was just off helping sealing them one tails Deidara is overrated but we shouldn't down play his capabilities to sound new
We weren’t downplaying him at all. His showings against Sasuke hold him back here. Blatantly getting blitzed multiple times, while having every advantage he could, puts him below everyone in middle tier in my opinion.
@@sageofthickcalves thats not true sasuke had the advantage couse his lighting release sasuke barely won that and kisame saying that deidara was one the strongest proves that he was top 5 in akatsuki.
@@unit0156 Sasuke was trying to get intel from Deidara, so he wasn’t even trying to kill him
We all know that oro is too far