What did you think of the reveal of Nanao's Zanpakutō? Who else, apart from Lille, could it defeat? Gerard, or perhaps even Yhwach himself? Let me know your thoughts down in the comments - thanks everyone!
I don’t think it could beat Gerard. Lille had durability negation to the extreme and so couldn’t tank his own power. Gerard is basically just a stat stick so even if his power can be deflected, he can just get stronger and crush Nanao. Yhwach has the Almighty, enough said. Even if Monster Aizen’s Fragor is deflected, he can just regenerate. TLDR: the sword only beats Lille
@@MrTommo2304 I think it can affect all Vollständig, Quincy spells, and all the more Godly Schutstaffel, but it probably doesn't do much to directly hurt the more human Quincy, unless they are hurt by the light of their attacks. It doesn't matter if they don't emit literal light like Lille, they use God's power or are pieces of God, so they possess His light. This goes for Ywach too, even if he can't be killed by it IMO. I think it can kill Gerard and Pernida, though. I hope in Cour 4 that Nanao shows back up to try and use it against Gerard or Ywach, and in the latter case, Ywach rants about it or goes into a flashback about how it dismembered his father. Heck, maybe it's part of the new and improved Still Silver plan if Ryuuken catches wind of it. Distract Ywach with the glare of Shinken Hakkyoken, shoot him with the Still Silver, and then bam. The more interesting cases for me are Ichigo, Aizen, and the Zero Division. The latter, I think, would be affected by virtue of having ōken, which are linked to Adnyeus. Aizen couldn't create a pseudo-Ōken despite his best efforts, so while he's transcended, he probably isn't affected. Ichigo might be after going through the Irazusandō and being prepared as a vessel for Adnyeus' power, to the point he even got the Almighty eyes briefly. Maybe this gave him some of God's light, and that goes doubly for the Quincy blood in his veins. Maybe his Zanpakuto might be more affected...maybe I've taken this too far.
Mrtommo can u check out how nanao sword was foreshadow. Idk where u can check it as i found someone talk about it. But from what i heard the ise family is related to Japanese mythology and the weapon nanao sword was said to kill a god n split it into parts the same way as the manga/anime. I think this weapon is actually foreshadowed all from the name ise. Used to think this is an asspull but now i think its decent tbf😅😅
I’d imagine it would be able to defeat Gerard whenever he was light based but not when he’d turn to flesh and blood. Basically I’d wager it would work on any light based Quincy attack like their arrows and their wings/halos in vollständig but not the Sternritters themselves. Even Pernida’s evolution since his separation would likely make him immune from physical attack… not sure about Mimihagi but him more so than Pernida.
Indeed. To mutilate such a primordial being one would need a blade fully capable of such an action, and the ancestor's were the types who'd craft that to see their ambitions to the end.
Add to this theory: What if Nanao's ancestor, who originally used the sword, was the Soul King's bride? The mother of Ywach? Being married to God as a pretext for carving him up with the Mirror Sword would surely be dire enough to warrant a curse on all of the woman's descendants? Forcing them to suffer tragedy whenever they married a man, as their ancestor betrayed her husband.
I think the analysis is overlooking that even though Leal sees light refracting off the sword, no one else does. The mirrors are not literally reflecting the light from his body as far as I can tell, it seems to be doing it to his divine powers, which is why only he can see it. If that's true, then it should work on anyone with "divine" power, like Ywach, Pernida, and Gerard. In fact, it might work on anyone with a Shrift to a lesser degree since that's divine power gifted to them
The fight with Lillie is very synonymous with Barragan's. After the Captain fails to end the battle with their Bankai, the seemingly indestructible enemy is ultimately defeated by having their own power turned against them.
Can the sword counter the Almighty? Would the light of his immense power reflected back disrupt his ability to use his "eyes"? That would be a pretty cool loophole to the Almighty.
I’ve always thought that the Shinken could deflect any Quincy’s power. The phrase “god’s light” is used in describing Saint Zwinger’s ability, so I think that it is immune to Quincy abilities.
I wouldn’t say all of them. Like Almighty and Antithesis. Those are too broken. Like Uryu can just damage something near by and apply that to the sword, breaking it. And Ywach could just change events to where he breaks it.
@@sirajel-bey there were other swords like Muramasa and Enrakyoten. Probably everyone of the nobles cut a piece off with their own sword and kept it. Like a pizza
@@Grayson-Winchester Not to be that guy but muramasa is non canon and enrakyotens ability is to copy other zanpakuto i dont think it has the power to cut a god.
@@giornogiobama1795muramasa was mentioned in a video game as well (cant remember which one) I like to believe muramasa is a canon concept much like the valley of screams/the fallen
@@allworksnew None of the games are obviously canon...they only repeat lore/content of what's already available in the manga, anime or novels. Also some of the games makes up stuff as well lol.
20:35 wait…when ichigo destroyed Quilge’s halo it never reformed. He even stated it was destroyed too when it happened so it wouldn’t be too far fetched to say it’s basically ywachs direct power being brought out with the quincies, hence why when they’re hit with Auswhalen (idk how to spell it) they lose the form, because it’s HIS power. The vollstandig being something he gave them directly and takes back with the schrift
@@Grayson-WinchesterLille barro is like a cultist or head priest when expressing his devotion to Ywach. Jugram in the other hand is like Ywach's right hand man general that is loyal to him. I think we can easily distance distinguish how different the two view Ywach as. It is devotion for Lille barro, loyalty for Jugram
@@Snzn_7 what difference does it make if Haschwalth killed more in the name of Yhwach and had his almighty. In the manga Haschwalth explained how he and majesty are connected
It’s been like 8 years since I first read the Lille - Shunsui fight, and it’s honestly insane how busted he is. Being intangible and able to penetrate through anything is just overpowered
Which is why i dont see nanao sword as an asspull , if you give enemies op powers you need something to counter and if you develop a character who needs it in the process that’s a bonus
6:00 The soul king is figuratively and literally above Soul Society. The Royal Palance is generally not considered part of the Sereitei. 14:27 Lille (and later Gerard) have to replace most of their body with pure Spiritual Pressure. Like a extreme version of Vollständig. It makes me think the power is simply reflecting/violently Kido style abilities. Regardless of relative power. Ywach probably could do that - but choose not to, using Allmighty to just not be hurt in the first place.
Actually, I remembered something. When Ukitake fought Stark and the later figured the Shikai he said: "At least it doesn't just reflect my Zero without reason or limit". I think Nanaos sword does just that - reflect without rhyme, reason or limit.
This was exactly what I was thinking,it can be that we are taking the interpretation too literally and it was only the interpretation of the ise clan but infact it is the swords ability to reflect kido like powers or maybe powers utilising Reaishi
"The Hakkyōken is a sword said to be capable of taking the power of a god into itself and dispersing it off into the eight directions." Lille's power in this moment was light which was reflected back at him. For all intents and purposes, like Lille, Yhwach is a "God" in the Bleach universe which means Shinken Hakkyoken should work and reflect his power back at him but just not sure how that would work. Has anyone ever asked Kubo?
@@Grayson-Winchester disagree. People are amptly forgetting that Yhwach relies on omniscience as his power and so shinken hayoken is useless. Only Ishida can truly counter Yhwachs power.
@@Grayson-Winchester now that I think about it I also agree. Make juha be able to see his own death because of the shinken and him try to change it only to make it irreversible through the sword's power.
@@Grayson-Winchester I think both should. Blind Ywach with the reflected light from the blade, shoot him with the arrow, and then defeat him with Ichigo's Bankai.
I was really looking forward to the Lille Barro fight. I had imagined what the voice what his Jilliel voice would sound like when I was reading the manga, and when I heard it it sounded almost exactly what I was imagining. and the way that Nano jumped out of the shadow in his forehead was amazing
Have you noticed that in the manga the reflected lille's leftover owl angel things are flesh and blood? Theyre killed by Kira of all people. This implies that the "deflection" of Lilles light lessened it to a corporeal form again. If the Ise curse is real, I say it stems from dismembering Reio, and that the limbs to degrees lost their light as you put it, rendering Pernida flesh. Now, Mimihagi is sort of ethereal in a shadowy way, and I take the light part to be more centered with Quincy Reiatsu, something that very few quincy actually possess and need to borrow from emitter quincy or from their godly all father.
It was probably used by Ichibei to sever the Soul King. In the flashback all you see is white background. It could have been his own light being reflected back. Once he separated the limbs and heart using light being reflected, he picks him up. But he only sees Ichibei as a shadow. Could be that he himself was momentarily blinded by his own reflected light.
I’m pretty sure this is how the soul kings parts got scattered across the three realms, Ise is likely the unnamed 5th great noble clan. Wielded by someone who knows how the sword is supposed to work in its entirety, it probably literally scattered him all ‘directions’ or worlds, I’m starting to think pieces ended up in Hueco Mundo and the hollows that get them are the rare few that can become vasto lorde, a handful of Shinigami in SS had pieces, and the Quincy and fullbringers in the living world got some, wonder what happens if these beings go to hell….. plus cutting up god seems like a good reason for the only known curse in the story.
Y’know I’m really curious about the idea that the Ise Clan Weapon was originally created to be used against the Soul King, reflecting is almighty power as god, one mirror for each of his irises. Possibly even being what was used to cut up the Soul King’s body, perhaps being the reason for the curse.
I think it comes down to what make Lille unique compared to the others in that he is a ranged fighter exclusively thanks to the X axis. so in his final form converts himself to pure energy to remove all vulnerabilities from that so like being attacked in melee, all of the other members still require a physical form for one reason or another, either from how they fight or not experienced/powerfull enough yet. The Hakkyōken is just reflecting as we saw. and would act the same vs anyone, against Lille however its also reflecting the X axis to make it more devastating, and making himself pure light just made him the perfect opponent for Nanao
Honestly the flaws were still there, but the animation and music saved this episode and made it more epic than the manga, so all praise should definitely go to the studio 😊
@MrGksarathy lol reflecting the almighty is impossible and besides it wouldn't do anything. Because the almighty is not an oppressive power. It is clairvoyance. It's like saying I'm going to reflect your sight back onto you. So what you just look at yourself? And this is a guy who sees and controls every future. Even if what you say is possible, he controls everything about the sword as the manipulator of future
@@kakashihatake1029 I did say maybe, not for sure. Besides, if we take the fact that Lille couldn't make out the form of the blade due to it reflecting his own Divine Light back at him, it might work similarly for Ywach and potentially obstruct his vision of the many possible futures, or even reflect any attempt of his to impose a future on the wielder onto himself instead.
I think it depends which quincies are made of light of god. We clearly saw Lille's Ziliel having blood coming out of his wounds, yet his owl form was purely made from light of god, Shinken Hakkyoken is a sword that disperses light of god, if I had to guess, it could probably work on Gerards complete light form, which is his last form before he turns into bones. I think theoretically it should work on Yhwach's final form where there's a yellow light line coming down his eye and he's covered in full black, even then I don't think it could kill Yhwach purely because The Almighty is just that strong of a hax. I don't think it would've worked on Askin and Pernida
I personally think it works regardless of if the body is made of flesh and bone, if it is the flesh and bone of God. Therefore, Pernida, Mimihagi, and Gerard are absolutely susceptible, as would Ywach and possibly Gremmy and Aura. Still, it probably isn't as effective on human Quincy wielding God's light as it would be on pieces of God.
reading this got me thinking; Could this hurt AIzen? now since he is fused with a modified version of the soul kings (nail?) soul piece. or at least its the base materials that make up the Hogyoku .... hmmm
@@MrGksarathy I really think light of god has a significant meaning to it, Yhwach also mentioned it in Yamamoto vs Yhwach fight where he says that if you step in this technique (Sankt Zwinger) you will be obliterated by light of god. At first glance it seems like fancy wording but when it keeps being mentioned again and again, especially in such a concept like Shinken Hakkyoken, I'd like to believe it's a real established concept, just not fleshed out very well
@@Katz345 Indeed. For me, it extends not just to light and reishi-based constructs, but anything embodying the power of Adnyeus. The concept feels rather Gnostic in nature, since in many such texts, all humans are considered to be emanations of the true God imprisoned in flesh by the Demiurge.
@@ArmageddonAngel There's still room for more tangible flashbacks that contain it. All the flashbacks we've gotten are abstract snapshots that don't actually tell us too much directly.
10:20 to me was always obvious that the reason that this sword has this power and os cursed is because it was used to dismember the soul king, so the curse would be unknowningly put uppon it by his bad feelings uppon his betrayers. And the Ise clan would be the secondary noble clan to be responsabilidade to keep that weapon in case the soul king ever rebel against the nouble houses, even tho he let them do that on his free will they didnt trust him.
Don't know if it was a translation issue or something, but I thought the swords ability was to disperse "gods power" not "Gods light." The whole thing about light being reflected was just the case with Lille. As for Yhwach himself, perhaps the sword could negate him from seeing the wielders future and changing it. It could Explain how the soul king was defeated. We won't know unless Kubo gives more information on it. But I agree that the swords introduction was pretty much a deus ex machina just to defeat lille.
It was. I don't know why people keep on saying its ability is to reflect god's light, the manga and the anime both state its ability is simply to take in god's power and disperse it in all directions, nothing to do with light.
another thing that makes me mad is that if Lile was only able to be defeated by his own power reflect back at him that would have been a perfect way to give Ukitake a fight in tybw instead of wasting his life using Mimihagi to restore Adonyus since it fails anyway. Sogyo no kotowari ability after all is to reflect attacks
Tommo might be taking the "light of God" part too literally. It could very well be a poetic way of describing a type of reiatsu that certain beings possess. Pernida and Gerard would count as parts of the Soul King; so would Yhwach as the one who gave Lille his power in the first place. The flashback might have context omitted since Ywach saw Ichibe holding the dismembered Soul King, but Ichigo did not.
That's my exact opinion. I feel the phrase "light of God" has a very Christian connotation that goes beyond a literal light, but rather the metaphorical light of the soul. Anything embodying the power of Adnyeus probably has it. The flashbacks have all been presented in this very snapshot-like, non-linear manner, so we have no way of really knowing if the Shinken Hakkyoken was or was not used back then anyway.
Agreed. Maybe it’s due to growing up in the church but the concept of Godly light is oftentimes used as a metaphor for how God’s influence is inevitable and all-powerful. The Ark of the Covenant is one which artifact that is purported to be deadly to humans BECAUSE it contains god’s light/presence, which is a great metaphor for how ‘Godly light/presence’ is so deadly.
Hi, Hi, MrTommo, great analysis as always. I just would like to say that the name "Lille" was actually pronounced like LI-YE in the japanese dub, instead of "LILL" (withoout the E).
It's weird because they added a couple scenes with Namu hesitating and worrying for Mayuri but they didn't for Nanao. I'm not sure why, maybe Kubo feels that this is how it should be since there are a lot of religious themes with Lille. Maybe it's a way to show that humanity found a way to reject God's will but it comes with a cost, the curse. The way it's hidden in Kyokotsu reminded me of the holy grail too. I'm not sure what's Kubo's angle here in it's interity but I think he has some strong feelings about this part of the story. Anyway I wish we at least got the curse explained properly so it could at a better narrative overall.
I can think of 2 good reasons to issue Nanao an Asauchi. 1. To prove to her that she cannot have another Zanpakuto and ensure they accept their destiny (this applies to any woman of the Ise clan) and 2. To prove to themselves that the Shinken Hakkyōken still exists. If it had been destroyed somehow, she would have been able to bond with an Asauchi. I can also think of 1 good reason for the Curse to exist. Succession. I think the Curse kills the partner so that only a single child can be born, ensuring there are no questions of who will inherit Shinken Hakkyōken.
No lie, it STILL feels like “Oh shit, we actually need a way to kill Lille” and nothing more. Like, it is SEVERELY situational and i question if it truly would be used for anything else, but at least it looks amazing in the anime.
The fact that Lillie revealed he didn’t know of things such as Kyoraku’s Bankai or nobility’s sacred treasures proves how iffy and inconsistent the Quincy’s intel really was. Despite observing for 1000 years from the shadows but not really paying attention. For everything they threw at them, the soul reapers found a solution. But the sternritters weren’t nearly intelligent enough to respond to it. Be it the case of Mayuri, Urahara, Senjumaru or that Shunsui is a better shadow user. The soul society’s highest have weapons that can be this dangerous to the Quincies goes to show how much they underestimated the real culprits (nobility).
Well in the case of Kyorakus Bankai it’s clearly something he just can’t spam or use openly, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t have info on that. If he used it against Stark back then they would for sure. In the case of the sword that was a nobility affair not a Shinigami affair so it probably flew under their radar, and Kyroaku was only a student at the time so they probably didn’t their eyes on him until he made the rank of Captain
@@barrydalton4743there ought to be a lot that flew under their radar. Not just how much of a menace Mayuri is. If so division 12 should have been their 1st target
i think its just based on observation. Shunsui likely never used his bankai in that period and Nanaos blade was both dangerous to the user and there is no statement on it ever being needed/used as well. Pernida got killed by essentially pure luck. They could not kill gerard either. Askin is the only one who was taken down by remotely normal means and thats because urahara had so many pieces to work with. In retrospect it really was luck that gerard, pernida, and lille were beaten.
man i would've been cinematic experience if the shinken talked to nanao, or something of a background how the zanpakuto was created haha kickass lieutenants so far !!
I’ve always considered that Bleach is multiple religious allegories that have been flipped around. So the Quincy are angels, Soul Reapers are demons, but the roles in which they play aren’t straightforward. I think there is also a power element. In my mind Ywach could potentially have been harmed by the sword without the Soul Kings power. I believe that it’s not referring to a god specifically, but god like or holy power. This for me lines up more closely with what I believe the Ise family would be using the weapon for. I think they were prepared as shinigami to protect themselves from the holy light of the Quincy. Or at least that’s the angle I’d maybe be working with if I was Kubo trying to justify the deus ex machina. It’s almost impossible to retcon the effectiveness of that weapon when the cat’s already out of the bag. I think it would work on anyone who had their power bestowed upon them by Yhwach. I think the Soul Kings power exceeds that.
I think his zealous mindset played a huge part in how his personality manifested. He was also the first of the Sternritter, so maybe Yhwach gave him more power than the rest of them. We can always hope we get to see him and a few of the others in a potentially expanded friend saga that's coming up.
This was a bit of a typical Shonen ass-pull, but not the most egregious that we have seen. If they reveal that it's the sword that mutilated Adnyeus, then it will be more believable and less disruptive to the story.
Seeing Toshiro made me realize… he’s a perfect counter against Pernida. (If he’s told about the nerves before hand) He would’ve ended that fight before it started if he was still ruthless & Zombified and instantly froze him.
I don't know if his regular bankai is enough to freeze Pernida that fast but his Mature form is easily low diff Pernida, such a natural counter by freezing and deactivating the nerves. Pernida could touch anything extremely cold and extremely hot I think Rukia Bankai, Yamamoto Shikai, and Bazz B the Heat also could defeat Pernida
Nah I don’t think so man Gerard is a fkn raid boss with infinite phases and each phase he gets stronger , unless kubo change the end of his fight , if you know you know.
@emmanuelakande3563 gerald isnt invincible, kubo stated that he could be defeated if his star core thing is destroyed, pretty sure the sword will cleave him just fine right into the core itself
people were trying to tell me that shinken hakyuken was foreshadowed by Senjumaru reversing Lile's attack back at him, but it doesn't. The only thing that is foreshadowed is that Lile gets defeated by his own attack. It does nothing to foreshadow nanaos linage or the swords existence. It just comes off as Lile will be defeated by having his own attack reflected back at him and Nanao just so happens to conveniently possess a sword that can do just that which is the definition of a deus ex machina
I heard there was some sort of connection because the swords name ties in closely with the mirror move that Senjimaru did so if thats true it would be foreshadowing.
Two points, the first- the soul king being in multiple independent sentient pieces that had to end up that way somehow could be foreshadowing. The second point- there LITERALLY is a a god in this machine and he LET all this happen…..
@@kakashihatake1029 right? It’s almost like no human (nor AI lol) author is capable of thinking of literally EVERYTHING by the time they first put pen to paper when it comes to inventing an entire universe with people and rules different to this one’s. One of the most lauded authors of the modern era in J RR Tolkien was constantly revising his work until his death, and new editions were published to reflect those retcons, because they are humans not gods with Almighty imaginations….
On the one hand, eventually someone who does not get vaporized by YH in an instand would be able to use it and defeat him, since YH gave him his power its also YH's Power so it should work, on the other hand however, ill have to assume that YH does knows about the Sword and since he does nothing against it he must know that it is useless against him. In the End, it does not matter since its all acording to Aizen Plan's anyways :D
No one but Nanao should be able to use it anyway. But Yhwach will body her and everybody in the gotei at once. All according to Yhwachs plan since he folded aizen too :D
The way I'm interpreting it, the whole "dispersing god's light" thing is just flowery language. I personally think that the Shinken Hakkyoken is able to reflect any enemies power against them. It just more effective against someone who has god like power as it doesn't possess any power of its own. Just whatever is reflected by it.
@@zero69kage Possible, but Lille was a literal Seraph tapping into power granted him by Ywach, the son of God. That, and it's a ceremonial blade first and foremost, not a weapon of war.
@@MrGksarathybut soul reapers are religious beings themselves. They reap the dead, they are more god like than humans descended from basically lucifer. Lille sees himself as an angel because he sees what he does as holy and is basically a cultist for Ywbach and sees him as god
@@pwners4u Shinigami seem very non-theist though, especially when compared to the Quincy, who seem to worship Ywach and Adnyeus in a way akin to Judaism and Christianity
Doesn't reflect gods power not just light. Maybe it was just light bc that's was power it was reflecting at the moment? I remember that when the sword was first revealed it was stated to just reflect God's power. Not just light?
The way I interpreted it, it disperses the power of god in all directions. Lille uses a godly power manifested as the light of god and he sees that light reflected through the sword. In my head cannon, even if Lille’s body wasn’t made of light it would still cut him and disperse his godly power, just how it would with any other godly entity in Bleach (like Yhwach and Gerard). Doesn’t change the fact that Yhwach could just change the future and get rid of the Shinken Hakkyoken lol
A lot of the comments mention the mutilation of the soul King as being the primary reason for the relic, I tend to agree with this more so as it would give a compelling reason as to why it would be deemed a important artifact by central 46 in the Royal family, but I can’t help, but think, if that is the primary reason for this sword, it would make sense that the ability to reflect God’s power is a reference to the soul king and his ethnicity as a Quincy. As such, what if the tool itself cannot only reflect physical, but metaphysical abilities as well, such as the Almighty. In addition to this, being as ichibe is also a primordial being, what if the abilities come from the name itself that was bestowed upon it by ichibe in order to fulfill its role as discussed. I would be really interested to hear what Kubo has to say about this. Another speculation for this curse of the Ise Clan, if it can be used by females. Maybe this is the directed result of what it can kill? Say for example the sword was coded to kill a Quincy, male. With the power of the Almighty or other Quincy Powers. Maybe the existence of the sword is so potent that it would indiscriminately kill things in its proximity close to its coded purpose.
I think the sword works a lot like how the mirror shield works in Zelda. It can absorb any kind of magic attack against it and redirect the damage back at the attacker. That could explain why it doesn't cut any thing because it doesn't have a blade but the magic its redirecting at its opponent just obliterates things.
I also think, yes, Shinken Hakyoukken WAS thought of right before the conclusion of Lille’s battle and, if it’s the sword that split the soul king, Kubo will explain such in a KO question or perhaps touch on it in the arc that shall not be named.
Maybe the light is just Quincy powers. Like how the Monk cam control all black. A very nebulous power. Quincy arrows have light. Maybe it can reflect Quincy constructs. Like green lantern rings
This is a somewhat rare case of the anime enhancing the source material to new heights witch is inpressive considering the shinken hakkyoken has left a sour taste in a lot of fans mouths myself included the studio gets a well deserved standing ovation from me ibcant wait for the friend saga and beyond!
I think the Shinken Hakkyoken works like powerful nen abilities, meaning to be forged, a contract/curse had to be forced upon the Ise clan. The more powerful the ability is, the bigger the restrictions type thing. The whole family tree has to suffer the restrictions (not being able to make asauchis their own because Shinken Hakkyoken is already theirs and men dying early). I would guess that the Ise clan was tasked by the Tsunayashiro clan to forge a weapon capable of cutting down Adnyeus and as they are still paying for their "sin"
Lille says he was given his powers by Ywach, the same powers Shinken Hakyoken is reflecting. I believe it WOULD work on Ywach. And I like the fact that the Shinigami have a reserve weapon just in case so that the main character doesnt feel like hes the only hope, but the most reasonable choice at the moment.
Nanao is perfect explains how they where able to create the soul king. The noble houses came together and split him apart. Im sure they had to have something to fight a god. Nanao having that weapon gives insight.
Aizen is the first one to mention other gods. When he is leaving Soul Society, he says no one has stood on top of the world, not even gods, hinting that there are multiple gods in their universe.
My own personal head cannon, I think the zanpakuto was used to dismember the soul king back in the beginning. And because maybe the Isei family (spelt wrong ik)had crafted it or yielded it to chop of the soul kings limbs, they were cursed. It’d be so cool if they added that into the anime. Then the zanpakuto wouldn’t feel like such a thrown in plot device lol
I suspect it was the "blade" used in carving up the soul king, and that it isn't light specifically it works on, but godly energies, like reiatsu, Lille's light, maybe even something like the hogyoku's energy. Maybe if used on someone like Gerard, it would reflect a miracle effective in damaging him permanently, Maybe if used on someone with the almighty, it would it would damage them in all futures they can see. Maybe against Aizen, it would cause them to evolve into a form where they could not be interacted with by anything but also could not interact with anything, effectively neutralizing them. If it reflects godly powers, it makes sense it would depend on the type of power. Something like Ukitake's shikai turned up to 11.
I've heard that the realm of the living is unique in being made of physical material, and the rest of the universe is made of reishi instead. In that case, maybe "god's light" is just any divine reishi, and the reason it sometimes looks like physical matter is because that's simply how *all* reishi behaves.
I always thought the concept of Shinken much like the Quincy themselves. They draw all their power from the world around them, while the Shinken repels all power away from it. A bit ironic.
Yep lol. Yhwach would have to intentionally want to suicide if he dies to it. Could defo work against Gerard though yeah. His own power of hoffnung should be able to destroy himself
My guess is that it would work on the following: FGT Ichigo, RR Ichigo, post-Chrysalis Aizen, TYBW Aizen, Ichibei, Vollstandig Lille Barro, Unshackled Pernida, Miracle-buffed Gerard, Almighty-activated Yhwach, Mimihagi, and the Soul King. Who knows with any of the Hell denizens like Szayel or the Gotei.
With how much of an asspull the sword is, and how much of an asspull the manga's defeat of Yhwach is (with the deus ex machina silver arrow), it would honestly be nice if the anime extended the sequence a bit and actually had Nanao show up with the sword in the fight. It doesn't have to actually kill Yhwach, but even if she showed up to block an attack at a crucial moment or injure/surprise him long enough for the arrow to get shot or for another character to get a hit in... really anything would work. It'd take something that is UNDENIABLY a last minute deus ex machina and at least let it feel like it has more of a purpose in the world than just to kill one character that the author wrote himself into a corner over.
Her sword reminds me of religious texts (ie. Bible). In hindsight, in most of the manga, she's seen holding a book and I feel like there's a metaphorical connection there. The idea that she's logical and questions the Ise curse reminds me of how people question their faith all the time. A lot of people use the Bible and find contradictions within the text to disprove the religion, similar to how the sword reflects Gods light and can cut God. I find this so interesting and such a cool wait to express questioning faith.
It definite could but who would wield it? I'd imagine you need some semblance of prowess with energy scattering (akin to kido) to utilize the special power. Yet the best swordsmen of the Gotei 13 generally use their instincts, raw power, or special abilities. As for Nanao, she could barely stand after a two-strike bout against Lille. Therefore while the sword COULD destroy the quincy king, I don't think they would get to a position to.
Maybe Nanao’s ancestor was the one who cut the Soul King’s limbs off with that ritual sword? Ywach said he needed powers of Quincy, shinigami, hollow, and fullbringer to kill his father. A sword that reflects his own powers back at him would then be able to cut him surely.
I think that the Shinken Hakkyoken was made with the express purpose of use against either the soul king or his body. It was probably held by the clan as a safe guard against enemies with were divine. As an example, if the left or right hand of the soul king was every used against the soul reapers. So anyone divine would be able to get hurt by it assuming they get hit by the reflection and how much divinity they have. Lille getting hit is probably due to him having a strong (broken) schrift and empowered by the auswählen. This also explains why central 46 took the loss of such an item so seriously.
Deal with my fun, unlikely, but also plausible theory of it being a relic crafted during the first war specifically for Lile/other stern-ritter like Quincy(being one of the original Quincy by ywach’s side), the Issei clan crafted the shinken hakyoken using a method forbidden due to the required collective curse enacted to create a weapon capable of actually countering the light from these so called “gods” in an “overmatch” sort of development . Sort of more of an ironic tool showing the flaw in the misguided “righteous light” leading to you causing your own destruction. The fact that the edge is bladeless, driving the point home. Another possibility is with the most powerful hollows using cero (a light based attack), it was used by EARLY shinigami for those particularly thicc bois and simply apply the same rational as above, to the early hollow threats, attributing the story of “god challenging” to ontological development ass-pull yada yada. A pretty fun thought experiment.
I still hate how these last two battles have ended like it just comes off as ass pulls. Like I thought we were gonna get better this time around but its still terrible endings for really big enemies.
@@reddiamond3842 highly unlikely tbh. I expect him to change Yhwachs death so Ishida is a key player but that's all. Gerard and Haschwalth will die the same way and that's good imo. I prefer it that way. Askins death is good enough. Barro got done really horribly though.
You know, if it really was Shinken Hakkyouken that split Soul King into pieces... then it really explains HOW Ise family curse works. It's likely, simply, Soul King killing all who marry Ise woman with his Almighty eyes. Yhwach actually threaten that fate to anyone who would oppose him after he defeated Ichigo, but Adyneus would likely be successful and more sublime, considering his eyes are superior to his son.
True. This is the likely answer IMO, but I feel another more farfetched idea would be that the founders applied the curse to grant it the power to reflect God's light. The Ise clan were then chosen to bear that curse for a fated confrontation with Ywach or Adnyeus' vengeance.
One thing this makes me think is the philosophical meaning of the word God. Tower of God brings the same thoughts to mind. What is a god? Who determines that? Can’t beings just become so strong and essentially immortal and then be referred to as a god by those who revere its power? (Like Zahard and the 10 Great Family heads in ToG)
That sword would had been useful against Aizen. I feel this blade was designed to tear apart dense spirit energy, it was used to cut the Soul king's body (light novel). Just saying.
"God's Light" Could pointedly just be Quincy's power. All of the Quincy's abilities are light themed. The more extreme use of the Quincy's powers the greater the reflective ability of the mirrors. Essentially the closer a thing becomes to being a non-solidified clump of sentient raeshi the stronger the blade is against them. The bigger beam you fire at it the more deadly and direct its counter. It seems purpose built to turn Quincy bolts back at them. P.S. Though arguably it could probably do the same to Cero and any other "Light" ability (maybe even Getsuga).
Quincy powers as a whole are suggested to be godly power, whether the source is Yhwach or Adnyeus. The Ise clan's connection to the Soul King would be world-shattering if it were to a) become canon and b) explored in depth. If the Shinken Hakkyoken was used to cut up Adnyeus, and the Five Noble Houses were formed from the ones that did that to him, it'd put the Ise clan as one of the Five (or possibly on par with them). I've seen others (namely @vileluca) suggest that the founder of the Ise clan may have been the Soul King's Bride, and that the curse stems from betraying Adnyeus. That might be the case, but the nature of that curse could be Yhwach - if he's the Soul King's son, and the Ise clan are in fact descended from the Soul King's wife, then it would follow that he could've been born into the family as the last boy. The sudden deaths of their spouses could be from Yhwach using their familial connection to absorb their power; alternatively, that trait might exist in the daughters of the Ise clan as well. All of that assumes the connection exists, of course, which could be way off base
Frankly, I think that throughout this video, @MrTommo2304, you forgot that Nanao never confronted Yhwach, Pernida, nor Gerard, so she never presented the Shinken Hakkyoken to use against them. As such, we have no evidence that those three aren’t considered “holy” to the weapon. There’s no evidence that they aren’t considered “gods”
Nanao pulled a Rose there. Telling Lille she can reflect his light back at him..."Okay, ill punch you to death with my superior physical strenght and speed, then, throw Shinken Hakyouken off the edge of Wahrwelt, thanks"
We can imagine what secret OP weapons the higher ups in the nobility have access to, only to be revealed and deployed during a crisis then put away again immediately due to the severe imbalance of power they can initiate.
The novels already showed us Enrakyōten, the Tsuniyashiro family Zanpakuto. It can literally copy whatever other Zanpakuto abilities the user has seen, adjusted to their reiatsu.
Mrtommo can u check out how nanao sword was foreshadow. Idk where u can check it as i found someone talk about it. But from what i heard the ise family is related to Japanese mythology and the weapon nanao sword was said to kill a god n split it into parts the same way as the manga/anime. I think this weapon is actually foreshadowed all from the name ise. Used to think this is an asspull but now i think its decent tbf😅😅
So my opinion...I believe the sword was created for the purpose of challenging a god long, long ago and was used successfully (whether that god was the Soul King or some other unnamed deity). But in response to the heresy, the god bestowed a curse upon the Ise family.
21:20 I think it still will, just when they animate CFYOW when they reveal the ‘original sin’ Edit: Cause when you think about it, neither Kyoraku or Nanao (or anyone even alive other than Ichibei & maybe Oetsu) would know of the details of the ‘original sin’ to have knowledge of all of this, specifically in context
Lille mentioned how blinding it was and how he couldn't look directly at it, which we were shown. So, in that sense, it should reflect the Almighty. Specifically, Yhwach's ability to see the future. In fact, prior to Cour 1 (or 2, whichever we got that flashback with Ichibe), that was my theory of how Yamamoto beat Yhwach in the first war. I assumed the matriarch of the Ise clan back then temporarily blinded Yhwach, which left him vulnerable to Yamamoto's attack. It reflects and dispurses God's power and the Quincy all use God's power so it should be able to beat any and all Quincy.
Definitely no. If this was true. Kubo wouldn't bother himself to insert the silver arrow or even talk about uryu's A being able to counter the A. This means all. That sword wouldn't work on yhwach which means it ain't as simple as you think. You can't reflect the Almighty lol. In order to relfect anything, a contact is first needed like it was shown. The Almighty or even the A or B are all not like lile's trompette. There's no need for a contact. The Almighty can break that sword in the future... it can nullify its ability by just seeing it through the future. The Antithesis can break that sword, just break anything around and reverse the damages back to this sword. It's clearly implied that it was perfect on lile because he was emitting light. You can even see, he no more had blood, he had light like dust light... he was entirely made of light. This sword can't cut humans. Uryu, jugram would be in this case.
@@leilamaria-p7j The light could distract Ywach and give an opening for the Still Silver arrow, though. That, and if we stretch it far enough, it might reflect the Almighty.
@MrGksarathy that is a terrible idea 😂 Yhwach can see and change the future but he gets blinded by the light from a sword lol. Not to mention he is enveloped by absolute darkness. Barro was covered by light
@@kakashihatake1029 Just like Tommo, I think you're taking the Godly Light thing too literally. Ywach literally embodies the power of God. Is that not Divine Light? Would it not be blindingly reflected back at him, his sheer power?
The impression I got was that, it worked on Lille because he thought of himself as a god ("it doesn't feel bad to be called a god" and " you did say it reflects god's light... How sinfull...", which I took as him realising he saw himself as a god despite proclaiming himself to be merely a messanger, and realising his hypocriticy made him prideful, the most serious sin)
I just wished they started hyping up this blade back when jugram confronted shinsui in the barracks I have a whole thing about that encounter thats too long to put in a comment now that I think about it maybe even when Nanao and Shinsui are talking about squad zero in episode 14 also I agree with that part about Quincy having gods light I always see it as like the Quincy being the chosen people. Yhwach son of god and then the Quincy are his children you get what I mean ?
It reflect the power of god, this in my brain is yhwach's quincy arrow being bounced back, so is pernida and gerard and also im sure it can cleave them, as if its an extremely sharp sword, while it basically ass spanker for non quincies
What did you think of the reveal of Nanao's Zanpakutō? Who else, apart from Lille, could it defeat? Gerard, or perhaps even Yhwach himself? Let me know your thoughts down in the comments - thanks everyone!
I don’t think it could beat Gerard. Lille had durability negation to the extreme and so couldn’t tank his own power. Gerard is basically just a stat stick so even if his power can be deflected, he can just get stronger and crush Nanao.
Yhwach has the Almighty, enough said.
Even if Monster Aizen’s Fragor is deflected, he can just regenerate.
TLDR: the sword only beats Lille
i think it could deflect ichigo and Hikone cero because cero is light and ichigo and hikone are soul king canidate
@@MrTommo2304 I think it can affect all Vollständig, Quincy spells, and all the more Godly Schutstaffel, but it probably doesn't do much to directly hurt the more human Quincy, unless they are hurt by the light of their attacks. It doesn't matter if they don't emit literal light like Lille, they use God's power or are pieces of God, so they possess His light. This goes for Ywach too, even if he can't be killed by it IMO. I think it can kill Gerard and Pernida, though.
I hope in Cour 4 that Nanao shows back up to try and use it against Gerard or Ywach, and in the latter case, Ywach rants about it or goes into a flashback about how it dismembered his father. Heck, maybe it's part of the new and improved Still Silver plan if Ryuuken catches wind of it. Distract Ywach with the glare of Shinken Hakkyoken, shoot him with the Still Silver, and then bam.
The more interesting cases for me are Ichigo, Aizen, and the Zero Division. The latter, I think, would be affected by virtue of having ōken, which are linked to Adnyeus. Aizen couldn't create a pseudo-Ōken despite his best efforts, so while he's transcended, he probably isn't affected. Ichigo might be after going through the Irazusandō and being prepared as a vessel for Adnyeus' power, to the point he even got the Almighty eyes briefly. Maybe this gave him some of God's light, and that goes doubly for the Quincy blood in his veins. Maybe his Zanpakuto might be more affected...maybe I've taken this too far.
Mrtommo can u check out how nanao sword was foreshadow. Idk where u can check it as i found someone talk about it. But from what i heard the ise family is related to Japanese mythology and the weapon nanao sword was said to kill a god n split it into parts the same way as the manga/anime. I think this weapon is actually foreshadowed all from the name ise. Used to think this is an asspull but now i think its decent tbf😅😅
I’d imagine it would be able to defeat Gerard whenever he was light based but not when he’d turn to flesh and blood. Basically I’d wager it would work on any light based Quincy attack like their arrows and their wings/halos in vollständig but not the Sternritters themselves. Even Pernida’s evolution since his separation would likely make him immune from physical attack… not sure about Mimihagi but him more so than Pernida.
Seen a lot of people theorize that it was the sword used to cleave the body parts of the Soul King
Indeed. To mutilate such a primordial being one would need a blade fully capable of such an action, and the ancestor's were the types who'd craft that to see their ambitions to the end.
@@spiderdude2099 than why is it used by the soul king supposed enemies?
The Quincies don’t have such powerful sacred weapons
Add to this theory: What if Nanao's ancestor, who originally used the sword, was the Soul King's bride? The mother of Ywach?
Being married to God as a pretext for carving him up with the Mirror Sword would surely be dire enough to warrant a curse on all of the woman's descendants? Forcing them to suffer tragedy whenever they married a man, as their ancestor betrayed her husband.
Kubo should've added it in the anime
@@Grayson-Winchester The Soul King allowed everything the Shinigami did to him to happen. We still really aren’t sure why he did this, so who knows?
I think the analysis is overlooking that even though Leal sees light refracting off the sword, no one else does. The mirrors are not literally reflecting the light from his body as far as I can tell, it seems to be doing it to his divine powers, which is why only he can see it. If that's true, then it should work on anyone with "divine" power, like Ywach, Pernida, and Gerard. In fact, it might work on anyone with a Shrift to a lesser degree since that's divine power gifted to them
@@SanguineQuest Exactly. The light of God is the power of Adnyeus.
I think it's sliding scale, the moment your body becomes energy you open yourself up to become vulnerable to the blade
@@jonathansolomon339 To narrow IMO because the power of God doesn't just mean literal light.
@MrGksarathy Exactly! "Light" isn't literal, it's metaphorical. As are the mirrors on the blade!
Should also work on Ukitake.
The fight with Lillie is very synonymous with Barragan's. After the Captain fails to end the battle with their Bankai, the seemingly indestructible enemy is ultimately defeated by having their own power turned against them.
I think it reflects power. Light just being another word for god like power.
Yes. I agree. I think tommo overthought this. It's to reflect someone's power. The more powerful you are, the stronger the light is blinding you.
Can the sword counter the Almighty? Would the light of his immense power reflected back disrupt his ability to use his "eyes"? That would be a pretty cool loophole to the Almighty.
I’ve always thought that the Shinken could deflect any Quincy’s power. The phrase “god’s light” is used in describing Saint Zwinger’s ability, so I think that it is immune to Quincy abilities.
I wouldn’t say all of them. Like
Almighty and Antithesis. Those are too broken. Like Uryu can just damage something near by and apply that to the sword, breaking it. And Ywach could just change events to where he breaks it.
Good point. I personally think Ywach's own power also qualifies, given he is the incarnated son of Adnyeus, even if he mostly wields the shadows.
Sounds more like Shinigami fan cope
@@MoriJustin it should make the Quincy regret having a vollständig. Because that kind of happened to Lillie
Physical attacks coming towards you perhaps, but not an attack from Uryu’s, Jugrams, and or Gremmy Shrifts for example.
20:40 was always my personal head-cannon. If not the shinken hakkyoken, what else could have split Reio?
@@sirajel-bey there were other swords like Muramasa and Enrakyoten. Probably everyone of the nobles cut a piece off with their own sword and kept it. Like a pizza
@@Grayson-Winchester Not to be that guy but muramasa is non canon and enrakyotens ability is to copy other zanpakuto i dont think it has the power to cut a god.
@@giornogiobama1795 There's a different Muramasa from the novels
@@giornogiobama1795muramasa was mentioned in a video game as well (cant remember which one) I like to believe muramasa is a canon concept much like the valley of screams/the fallen
@@allworksnew None of the games are obviously canon...they only repeat lore/content of what's already available in the manga, anime or novels.
Also some of the games makes up stuff as well lol.
20:35 wait…when ichigo destroyed Quilge’s halo it never reformed. He even stated it was destroyed too when it happened so it wouldn’t be too far fetched to say it’s basically ywachs direct power being brought out with the quincies, hence why when they’re hit with Auswhalen (idk how to spell it) they lose the form, because it’s HIS power. The vollstandig being something he gave them directly and takes back with the schrift
I believe lille barro was granted a second release and God like power because yhwach saw a devotion in him that most of the others lacked.
@@TymeTraveling777 more devoted than Haschwalth who is his other half?
@Grayson-Winchester not at all. But right behind him if anything
@@Grayson-Winchester Haschwalth isn't a cultist the way Lille is. I think Ywach is somewhat aware that his other half joined for his own benefit.
@@Grayson-WinchesterLille barro is like a cultist or head priest when expressing his devotion to Ywach.
Jugram in the other hand is like Ywach's right hand man general that is loyal to him.
I think we can easily distance distinguish how different the two view Ywach as.
It is devotion for Lille barro, loyalty for Jugram
@@Snzn_7 what difference does it make if Haschwalth killed more in the name of Yhwach and had his almighty. In the manga Haschwalth explained how he and majesty are connected
It’s been like 8 years since I first read the Lille - Shunsui fight, and it’s honestly insane how busted he is. Being intangible and able to penetrate through anything is just overpowered
Which is why i dont see nanao sword as an asspull , if you give enemies op powers you need something to counter and if you develop a character who needs it in the process that’s a bonus
lol plot armor n his captain title kept em alive
That's why he seals his own power. Even Lille is aware of how unfair his power is
@@sirajel-bey he should legitimately be the most powerful Quincy who ever lived after Yhwach
@@pedroribeirodesousa9152 It was 100% an asspull tho
6:00 The soul king is figuratively and literally above Soul Society. The Royal Palance is generally not considered part of the Sereitei.
14:27 Lille (and later Gerard) have to replace most of their body with pure Spiritual Pressure. Like a extreme version of Vollständig.
It makes me think the power is simply reflecting/violently Kido style abilities. Regardless of relative power.
Ywach probably could do that - but choose not to, using Allmighty to just not be hurt in the first place.
Actually, I remembered something.
When Ukitake fought Stark and the later figured the Shikai he said:
"At least it doesn't just reflect my Zero without reason or limit".
I think Nanaos sword does just that - reflect without rhyme, reason or limit.
This was exactly what I was thinking,it can be that we are taking the interpretation too literally and it was only the interpretation of the ise clan but infact it is the swords ability to reflect kido like powers or maybe powers utilising Reaishi
"The Hakkyōken is a sword said to be capable of taking the power of a god into itself and dispersing it off into the eight directions." Lille's power in this moment was light which was reflected back at him. For all intents and purposes, like Lille, Yhwach is a "God" in the Bleach universe which means Shinken Hakkyoken should work and reflect his power back at him but just not sure how that would work. Has anyone ever asked Kubo?
@@jimnasium3208 I think this should have been more of a factor in Yhwach’s defeat than the silver arrow
@@Grayson-Winchester disagree. People are amptly forgetting that Yhwach relies on omniscience as his power and so shinken hayoken is useless.
Only Ishida can truly counter Yhwachs power.
@@Grayson-Winchester now that I think about it I also agree. Make juha be able to see his own death because of the shinken and him try to change it only to make it irreversible through the sword's power.
@@Grayson-Winchester I think both should. Blind Ywach with the reflected light from the blade, shoot him with the arrow, and then defeat him with Ichigo's Bankai.
@@MrGksarathy that would require Nanao coming out of a shadow
Yhwach slaps that silly sword away. "Silly girl"
I was really looking forward to the Lille Barro fight. I had imagined what the voice what his Jilliel voice would sound like when I was reading the manga, and when I heard it it sounded almost exactly what I was imagining. and the way that Nano jumped out of the shadow in his forehead was amazing
Have you noticed that in the manga the reflected lille's leftover owl angel things are flesh and blood? Theyre killed by Kira of all people. This implies that the "deflection" of Lilles light lessened it to a corporeal form again. If the Ise curse is real, I say it stems from dismembering Reio, and that the limbs to degrees lost their light as you put it, rendering Pernida flesh. Now, Mimihagi is sort of ethereal in a shadowy way, and I take the light part to be more centered with Quincy Reiatsu, something that very few quincy actually possess and need to borrow from emitter quincy or from their godly all father.
It was probably used by Ichibei to sever the Soul King. In the flashback all you see is white background. It could have been his own light being reflected back. Once he separated the limbs and heart using light being reflected, he picks him up. But he only sees Ichibei as a shadow. Could be that he himself was momentarily blinded by his own reflected light.
I think the sword was used during the original sin to dismember the soul king!
I’m pretty sure this is how the soul kings parts got scattered across the three realms, Ise is likely the unnamed 5th great noble clan. Wielded by someone who knows how the sword is supposed to work in its entirety, it probably literally scattered him all ‘directions’ or worlds, I’m starting to think pieces ended up in Hueco Mundo and the hollows that get them are the rare few that can become vasto lorde, a handful of Shinigami in SS had pieces, and the Quincy and fullbringers in the living world got some, wonder what happens if these beings go to hell….. plus cutting up god seems like a good reason for the only known curse in the story.
Y’know I’m really curious about the idea that the Ise Clan Weapon was originally created to be used against the Soul King, reflecting is almighty power as god, one mirror for each of his irises. Possibly even being what was used to cut up the Soul King’s body, perhaps being the reason for the curse.
You do great work Mr. Tommo. Big up from East Africa.
I think it comes down to what make Lille unique compared to the others in that he is a ranged fighter exclusively thanks to the X axis. so in his final form
converts himself to pure energy to remove all vulnerabilities from that so like being attacked in melee, all of the other members still require a physical form
for one reason or another, either from how they fight or not experienced/powerfull enough yet. The Hakkyōken is just reflecting as we saw. and would act the same
vs anyone, against Lille however its also reflecting the X axis to make it more devastating, and making himself pure light just made him the perfect opponent for Nanao
Honestly the flaws were still there, but the animation and music saved this episode and made it more epic than the manga, so all praise should definitely go to the studio 😊
Slowly you become pretty annoying, there are no „flaws“ you just cant comprehend everything and for me it was Perfect
@@Kurosaki_Ichigodayohonestly
I agree. The studio carried this episode because the writing was pretty bad
People still using that cringe username?
@@micah459 Can you elaborate on how the writing was bad?
Yhwach would break that sword even before she could show at him, literally nothing for Allmighty.
Exactly. But the shinigami d riders won't understand.
@@Rizingfz08 Maybe. If the sword is drawn, though, it could reflect the Almighty back on him, maybe.
Nah the one who break is nap because she's weakling
@MrGksarathy lol reflecting the almighty is impossible and besides it wouldn't do anything. Because the almighty is not an oppressive power. It is clairvoyance.
It's like saying I'm going to reflect your sight back onto you. So what you just look at yourself?
And this is a guy who sees and controls every future.
Even if what you say is possible, he controls everything about the sword as the manipulator of future
@@kakashihatake1029 I did say maybe, not for sure.
Besides, if we take the fact that Lille couldn't make out the form of the blade due to it reflecting his own Divine Light back at him, it might work similarly for Ywach and potentially obstruct his vision of the many possible futures, or even reflect any attempt of his to impose a future on the wielder onto himself instead.
I think it depends which quincies are made of light of god. We clearly saw Lille's Ziliel having blood coming out of his wounds, yet his owl form was purely made from light of god, Shinken Hakkyoken is a sword that disperses light of god, if I had to guess, it could probably work on Gerards complete light form, which is his last form before he turns into bones.
I think theoretically it should work on Yhwach's final form where there's a yellow light line coming down his eye and he's covered in full black, even then I don't think it could kill Yhwach purely because The Almighty is just that strong of a hax.
I don't think it would've worked on Askin and Pernida
I personally think it works regardless of if the body is made of flesh and bone, if it is the flesh and bone of God. Therefore, Pernida, Mimihagi, and Gerard are absolutely susceptible, as would Ywach and possibly Gremmy and Aura.
Still, it probably isn't as effective on human Quincy wielding God's light as it would be on pieces of God.
reading this got me thinking; Could this hurt AIzen? now since he is fused with a modified version of the soul kings (nail?) soul piece. or at least its the base materials that make up the Hogyoku .... hmmm
@@MrGksarathy I really think light of god has a significant meaning to it, Yhwach also mentioned it in Yamamoto vs Yhwach fight where he says that if you step in this technique (Sankt Zwinger) you will be obliterated by light of god.
At first glance it seems like fancy wording but when it keeps being mentioned again and again, especially in such a concept like Shinken Hakkyoken, I'd like to believe it's a real established concept, just not fleshed out very well
@@justinsimpson7538 I don't think so, especially since he failed to create a pseudo-Ōken that would have allowed him to ascend to the Royal Palace.
@@Katz345 Indeed. For me, it extends not just to light and reishi-based constructs, but anything embodying the power of Adnyeus.
The concept feels rather Gnostic in nature, since in many such texts, all humans are considered to be emanations of the true God imprisoned in flesh by the Demiurge.
I wish that they had the blade in the flashbacks for the Soul King. It would have been the perfect place for it.
Yeah they should've put that. Focus on that in the flashback. Come on Kubo
@@ArmageddonAngel There's still room for more tangible flashbacks that contain it. All the flashbacks we've gotten are abstract snapshots that don't actually tell us too much directly.
@@reddiamond3842stop wanting your own headcanon to be in the story 😂😂
10:20 to me was always obvious that the reason that this sword has this power and os cursed is because it was used to dismember the soul king, so the curse would be unknowningly put uppon it by his bad feelings uppon his betrayers. And the Ise clan would be the secondary noble clan to be responsabilidade to keep that weapon in case the soul king ever rebel against the nouble houses, even tho he let them do that on his free will they didnt trust him.
Don't know if it was a translation issue or something, but I thought the swords ability was to disperse "gods power" not "Gods light."
The whole thing about light being reflected was just the case with Lille. As for Yhwach himself, perhaps the sword could negate him from seeing the wielders future and changing it. It could Explain how the soul king was defeated. We won't know unless Kubo gives more information on it.
But I agree that the swords introduction was pretty much a deus ex machina just to defeat lille.
Soul king wasn't defeated, he let them do this
It was. I don't know why people keep on saying its ability is to reflect god's light, the manga and the anime both state its ability is simply to take in god's power and disperse it in all directions, nothing to do with light.
another thing that makes me mad is that if Lile was only able to be defeated by his own power reflect back at him that would have been a perfect way to give Ukitake a fight in tybw instead of wasting his life using Mimihagi to restore Adonyus since it fails anyway. Sogyo no kotowari ability after all is to reflect attacks
That's fax
Tommo might be taking the "light of God" part too literally. It could very well be a poetic way of describing a type of reiatsu that certain beings possess.
Pernida and Gerard would count as parts of the Soul King; so would Yhwach as the one who gave Lille his power in the first place.
The flashback might have context omitted since Ywach saw Ichibe holding the dismembered Soul King, but Ichigo did not.
That's my exact opinion. I feel the phrase "light of God" has a very Christian connotation that goes beyond a literal light, but rather the metaphorical light of the soul. Anything embodying the power of Adnyeus probably has it.
The flashbacks have all been presented in this very snapshot-like, non-linear manner, so we have no way of really knowing if the Shinken Hakkyoken was or was not used back then anyway.
Agreed. Maybe it’s due to growing up in the church but the concept of Godly light is oftentimes used as a metaphor for how God’s influence is inevitable and all-powerful.
The Ark of the Covenant is one which artifact that is purported to be deadly to humans BECAUSE it contains god’s light/presence, which is a great metaphor for how ‘Godly light/presence’ is so deadly.
Hi, Hi, MrTommo, great analysis as always. I just would like to say that the name "Lille" was actually pronounced like LI-YE in the japanese dub, instead of "LILL" (withoout the E).
It's weird because they added a couple scenes with Namu hesitating and worrying for Mayuri but they didn't for Nanao. I'm not sure why, maybe Kubo feels that this is how it should be since there are a lot of religious themes with Lille. Maybe it's a way to show that humanity found a way to reject God's will but it comes with a cost, the curse. The way it's hidden in Kyokotsu reminded me of the holy grail too. I'm not sure what's Kubo's angle here in it's interity but I think he has some strong feelings about this part of the story. Anyway I wish we at least got the curse explained properly so it could at a better narrative overall.
0:07 time for Nanao to *shine* … I see what you did there ✨ 😎 ✨
I can think of 2 good reasons to issue Nanao an Asauchi. 1. To prove to her that she cannot have another Zanpakuto and ensure they accept their destiny (this applies to any woman of the Ise clan) and 2. To prove to themselves that the Shinken Hakkyōken still exists. If it had been destroyed somehow, she would have been able to bond with an Asauchi.
I can also think of 1 good reason for the Curse to exist. Succession. I think the Curse kills the partner so that only a single child can be born, ensuring there are no questions of who will inherit Shinken Hakkyōken.
The episode was amazing. Can’t wait to see how this season wraps up. It’s been amazing fights all seasons.
No lie, it STILL feels like “Oh shit, we actually need a way to kill Lille” and nothing more. Like, it is SEVERELY situational and i question if it truly would be used for anything else, but at least it looks amazing in the anime.
The fact that Lillie revealed he didn’t know of things such as Kyoraku’s Bankai or nobility’s sacred treasures proves how iffy and inconsistent the Quincy’s intel really was. Despite observing for 1000 years from the shadows but not really paying attention.
For everything they threw at them, the soul reapers found a solution. But the sternritters weren’t nearly intelligent enough to respond to it. Be it the case of Mayuri, Urahara, Senjumaru or that Shunsui is a better shadow user.
The soul society’s highest have weapons that can be this dangerous to the Quincies goes to show how much they underestimated the real culprits (nobility).
Well in the case of Kyorakus Bankai it’s clearly something he just can’t spam or use openly, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t have info on that. If he used it against Stark back then they would for sure. In the case of the sword that was a nobility affair not a Shinigami affair so it probably flew under their radar, and Kyroaku was only a student at the time so they probably didn’t their eyes on him until he made the rank of Captain
@@barrydalton4743there ought to be a lot that flew under their radar. Not just how much of a menace Mayuri is.
If so division 12 should have been their 1st target
i think its just based on observation. Shunsui likely never used his bankai in that period and Nanaos blade was both dangerous to the user and there is no statement on it ever being needed/used as well. Pernida got killed by essentially pure luck. They could not kill gerard either. Askin is the only one who was taken down by remotely normal means and thats because urahara had so many pieces to work with. In retrospect it really was luck that gerard, pernida, and lille were beaten.
Ise families' Zanpakuto may have been kept under wraps. Literally and figuratively.
@@MultiFandom8isFateI personally think Ywach knew about the blade, but he didn't consider it a huge threat because honestly, it really isn't.
I would love to see Nanao reflect a Getsuga Jujisho.
I think that any attacks have attained godly level or quality, in the current color scheme shown with gold, can be reflected
@@TheTpro83 I think it could happen. What if she reflects it towards Ywach or something?
man i would've been cinematic experience if the shinken talked to nanao, or something of a background how the zanpakuto was created haha kickass lieutenants so far !!
This Ep was beyond Perfect for every true bleach Fan Even better than kyoraku Sans Bankai
I’ve always considered that Bleach is multiple religious allegories that have been flipped around.
So the Quincy are angels, Soul Reapers are demons, but the roles in which they play aren’t straightforward.
I think there is also a power element. In my mind Ywach could potentially have been harmed by the sword without the Soul Kings power.
I believe that it’s not referring to a god specifically, but god like or holy power. This for me lines up more closely with what I believe the Ise family would be using the weapon for.
I think they were prepared as shinigami to protect themselves from the holy light of the Quincy.
Or at least that’s the angle I’d maybe be working with if I was Kubo trying to justify the deus ex machina.
It’s almost impossible to retcon the effectiveness of that weapon when the cat’s already out of the bag. I think it would work on anyone who had their power bestowed upon them by Yhwach.
I think the Soul Kings power exceeds that.
I think his zealous mindset played a huge part in how his personality manifested. He was also the first of the Sternritter, so maybe Yhwach gave him more power than the rest of them. We can always hope we get to see him and a few of the others in a potentially expanded friend saga that's coming up.
This was a bit of a typical Shonen ass-pull, but not the most egregious that we have seen.
If they reveal that it's the sword that mutilated Adnyeus, then it will be more believable and less disruptive to the story.
Seeing Toshiro made me realize… he’s a perfect counter against Pernida. (If he’s told about the nerves before hand) He would’ve ended that fight before it started if he was still ruthless & Zombified and instantly froze him.
@@neroblack9116 Only his mature Bankai could have ended it so quickly.
I don't know if his regular bankai is enough to freeze Pernida that fast but his Mature form is easily low diff Pernida, such a natural counter by freezing and deactivating the nerves.
Pernida could touch anything extremely cold and extremely hot
I think Rukia Bankai, Yamamoto Shikai, and Bazz B the Heat also could defeat Pernida
Just had a thought: they could totally use this against gerard eventually
no gerald would resurrect and use it as a miracle to become immune to it
Gerard would become immune to his own attack.
Nah I don’t think so man Gerard is a fkn raid boss with infinite phases and each phase he gets stronger , unless kubo change the end of his fight , if you know you know.
@emmanuelakande3563 gerald isnt invincible, kubo stated that he could be defeated if his star core thing is destroyed, pretty sure the sword will cleave him just fine right into the core itself
@@CorpasmomentThe sword could definitely do it, since it reflects divine power.
people were trying to tell me that shinken hakyuken was foreshadowed by Senjumaru reversing Lile's attack back at him, but it doesn't. The only thing that is foreshadowed is that Lile gets defeated by his own attack. It does nothing to foreshadow nanaos linage or the swords existence. It just comes off as Lile will be defeated by having his own attack reflected back at him and Nanao just so happens to conveniently possess a sword that can do just that which is the definition of a deus ex machina
I heard there was some sort of connection because the swords name ties in closely with the mirror move that Senjimaru did so if thats true it would be foreshadowing.
Two points, the first- the soul king being in multiple independent sentient pieces that had to end up that way somehow could be foreshadowing. The second point- there LITERALLY is a a god in this machine and he LET all this happen…..
Not to mention that Kubo only added that scene after 10 years of getting to think about it lol.
@@kakashihatake1029 right? It’s almost like no human (nor AI lol) author is capable of thinking of literally EVERYTHING by the time they first put pen to paper when it comes to inventing an entire universe with people and rules different to this one’s. One of the most lauded authors of the modern era in J RR Tolkien was constantly revising his work until his death, and new editions were published to reflect those retcons, because they are humans not gods with Almighty imaginations….
Um senjumaru wove their fates through her bankai. The details are irrelevant.
On the one hand, eventually someone who does not get vaporized by YH in an instand would be able to use it and defeat him, since YH gave him his power its also YH's Power so it should work, on the other hand however, ill have to assume that YH does knows about the Sword and since he does nothing against it he must know that it is useless against him.
In the End, it does not matter since its all acording to Aizen Plan's anyways :D
No one but Nanao should be able to use it anyway. But Yhwach will body her and everybody in the gotei at once.
All according to Yhwachs plan since he folded aizen too :D
I wonder if it was used in the process of subduing Raio the soul king.. it explains the curse? Punishment for what it was used for.
The way I'm interpreting it, the whole "dispersing god's light" thing is just flowery language. I personally think that the Shinken Hakkyoken is able to reflect any enemies power against them. It just more effective against someone who has god like power as it doesn't possess any power of its own. Just whatever is reflected by it.
@@zero69kage Possible, but Lille was a literal Seraph tapping into power granted him by Ywach, the son of God. That, and it's a ceremonial blade first and foremost, not a weapon of war.
This is exactly how I always interpreted it.
@@MrGksarathybut soul reapers are religious beings themselves. They reap the dead, they are more god like than humans descended from basically lucifer. Lille sees himself as an angel because he sees what he does as holy and is basically a cultist for Ywbach and sees him as god
@@pwners4u Shinigami seem very non-theist though, especially when compared to the Quincy, who seem to worship Ywach and Adnyeus in a way akin to Judaism and Christianity
@ that’s because they are most likely based on angels of Christianity, where Ywbach is lucifer a cast down angel and the Quincy are his fallen angels
Doesn't reflect gods power not just light. Maybe it was just light bc that's was power it was reflecting at the moment? I remember that when the sword was first revealed it was stated to just reflect God's power. Not just light?
The way I interpreted it, it disperses the power of god in all directions. Lille uses a godly power manifested as the light of god and he sees that light reflected through the sword. In my head cannon, even if Lille’s body wasn’t made of light it would still cut him and disperse his godly power, just how it would with any other godly entity in Bleach (like Yhwach and Gerard). Doesn’t change the fact that Yhwach could just change the future and get rid of the Shinken Hakkyoken lol
He’s the 1st Quincy. Being able to use the light of god without being god would make sense.
A lot of the comments mention the mutilation of the soul King as being the primary reason for the relic, I tend to agree with this more so as it would give a compelling reason as to why it would be deemed a important artifact by central 46 in the Royal family, but I can’t help, but think, if that is the primary reason for this sword, it would make sense that the ability to reflect God’s power is a reference to the soul king and his ethnicity as a Quincy. As such, what if the tool itself cannot only reflect physical, but metaphysical abilities as well, such as the Almighty. In addition to this, being as ichibe is also a primordial being, what if the abilities come from the name itself that was bestowed upon it by ichibe in order to fulfill its role as discussed. I would be really interested to hear what Kubo has to say about this. Another speculation for this curse of the Ise Clan, if it can be used by females. Maybe this is the directed result of what it can kill? Say for example the sword was coded to kill a Quincy, male. With the power of the Almighty or other Quincy Powers. Maybe the existence of the sword is so potent that it would indiscriminately kill things in its proximity close to its coded purpose.
I think the sword works a lot like how the mirror shield works in Zelda. It can absorb any kind of magic attack against it and redirect the damage back at the attacker. That could explain why it doesn't cut any thing because it doesn't have a blade but the magic its redirecting at its opponent just obliterates things.
I also think, yes, Shinken Hakyoukken WAS thought of right before the conclusion of Lille’s battle and, if it’s the sword that split the soul king, Kubo will explain such in a KO question or perhaps touch on it in the arc that shall not be named.
Maybe the light is just Quincy powers. Like how the Monk cam control all black. A very nebulous power.
Quincy arrows have light. Maybe it can reflect Quincy constructs. Like green lantern rings
This is a somewhat rare case of the anime enhancing the source material to new heights witch is inpressive considering the shinken hakkyoken has left a sour taste in a lot of fans mouths myself included the studio gets a well deserved standing ovation from me ibcant wait for the friend saga and beyond!
So basically Nanao's asspull sword Vs. Yhwach's schrift A: The Asspull?
Wouldn't work against the Almighty 😅
I think the Shinken Hakkyoken works like powerful nen abilities, meaning to be forged, a contract/curse had to be forced upon the Ise clan. The more powerful the ability is, the bigger the restrictions type thing. The whole family tree has to suffer the restrictions (not being able to make asauchis their own because Shinken Hakkyoken is already theirs and men dying early). I would guess that the Ise clan was tasked by the Tsunayashiro clan to forge a weapon capable of cutting down Adnyeus and as they are still paying for their "sin"
Lille says he was given his powers by Ywach, the same powers Shinken Hakyoken is reflecting. I believe it WOULD work on Ywach. And I like the fact that the Shinigami have a reserve weapon just in case so that the main character doesnt feel like hes the only hope, but the most reasonable choice at the moment.
Nanao is perfect explains how they where able to create the soul king. The noble houses came together and split him apart. Im sure they had to have something to fight a god. Nanao having that weapon gives insight.
Aizen is the first one to mention other gods. When he is leaving Soul Society, he says no one has stood on top of the world, not even gods, hinting that there are multiple gods in their universe.
Nanao's sword works only on those who bear golden wings 😅
My own personal head cannon, I think the zanpakuto was used to dismember the soul king back in the beginning. And because maybe the Isei family (spelt wrong ik)had crafted it or yielded it to chop of the soul kings limbs, they were cursed. It’d be so cool if they added that into the anime. Then the zanpakuto wouldn’t feel like such a thrown in plot device lol
I suspect it was the "blade" used in carving up the soul king, and that it isn't light specifically it works on, but godly energies, like reiatsu, Lille's light, maybe even something like the hogyoku's energy.
Maybe if used on someone like Gerard, it would reflect a miracle effective in damaging him permanently, Maybe if used on someone with the almighty, it would it would damage them in all futures they can see. Maybe against Aizen, it would cause them to evolve into a form where they could not be interacted with by anything but also could not interact with anything, effectively neutralizing them.
If it reflects godly powers, it makes sense it would depend on the type of power. Something like Ukitake's shikai turned up to 11.
I've heard that the realm of the living is unique in being made of physical material, and the rest of the universe is made of reishi instead. In that case, maybe "god's light" is just any divine reishi, and the reason it sometimes looks like physical matter is because that's simply how *all* reishi behaves.
I always thought the concept of Shinken much like the Quincy themselves. They draw all their power from the world around them, while the Shinken repels all power away from it. A bit ironic.
Great episode. Yhwach would just make it not exist. Maybe it works on Gerard.
Yep lol. Yhwach would have to intentionally want to suicide if he dies to it. Could defo work against Gerard though yeah. His own power of hoffnung should be able to destroy himself
My guess is that it would work on the following: FGT Ichigo, RR Ichigo, post-Chrysalis Aizen, TYBW Aizen, Ichibei, Vollstandig Lille Barro, Unshackled Pernida, Miracle-buffed Gerard, Almighty-activated Yhwach, Mimihagi, and the Soul King. Who knows with any of the Hell denizens like Szayel or the Gotei.
I truly think it just simply reflects energy, and in his final form lili was basically just pure energy
With how much of an asspull the sword is, and how much of an asspull the manga's defeat of Yhwach is (with the deus ex machina silver arrow), it would honestly be nice if the anime extended the sequence a bit and actually had Nanao show up with the sword in the fight. It doesn't have to actually kill Yhwach, but even if she showed up to block an attack at a crucial moment or injure/surprise him long enough for the arrow to get shot or for another character to get a hit in... really anything would work. It'd take something that is UNDENIABLY a last minute deus ex machina and at least let it feel like it has more of a purpose in the world than just to kill one character that the author wrote himself into a corner over.
Her sword reminds me of religious texts (ie. Bible). In hindsight, in most of the manga, she's seen holding a book and I feel like there's a metaphorical connection there. The idea that she's logical and questions the Ise curse reminds me of how people question their faith all the time. A lot of people use the Bible and find contradictions within the text to disprove the religion, similar to how the sword reflects Gods light and can cut God. I find this so interesting and such a cool wait to express questioning faith.
It definite could but who would wield it? I'd imagine you need some semblance of prowess with energy scattering (akin to kido) to utilize the special power. Yet the best swordsmen of the Gotei 13 generally use their instincts, raw power, or special abilities. As for Nanao, she could barely stand after a two-strike bout against Lille. Therefore while the sword COULD destroy the quincy king, I don't think they would get to a position to.
Maybe Nanao’s ancestor was the one who cut the Soul King’s limbs off with that ritual sword? Ywach said he needed powers of Quincy, shinigami, hollow, and fullbringer to kill his father. A sword that reflects his own powers back at him would then be able to cut him surely.
I think that the Shinken Hakkyoken was made with the express purpose of use against either the soul king or his body. It was probably held by the clan as a safe guard against enemies with were divine. As an example, if the left or right hand of the soul king was every used against the soul reapers. So anyone divine would be able to get hurt by it assuming they get hit by the reflection and how much divinity they have. Lille getting hit is probably due to him having a strong (broken) schrift and empowered by the auswählen. This also explains why central 46 took the loss of such an item so seriously.
Deal with my fun, unlikely, but also plausible theory of it being a relic crafted during the first war specifically for Lile/other stern-ritter like Quincy(being one of the original Quincy by ywach’s side), the Issei clan crafted the shinken hakyoken using a method forbidden due to the required collective curse enacted to create a weapon capable of actually countering the light from these so called “gods” in an “overmatch” sort of development . Sort of more of an ironic tool showing the flaw in the misguided “righteous light” leading to you causing your own destruction. The fact that the edge is bladeless, driving the point home. Another possibility is with the most powerful hollows using cero (a light based attack), it was used by EARLY shinigami for those particularly thicc bois and simply apply the same rational as above, to the early hollow threats, attributing the story of “god challenging” to ontological development ass-pull yada yada. A pretty fun thought experiment.
I still hate how these last two battles have ended like it just comes off as ass pulls. Like I thought we were gonna get better this time around but its still terrible endings for really big enemies.
It makes me worried if Kubo will fix the flaws at the end of the arc
@@reddiamond3842 highly unlikely tbh. I expect him to change Yhwachs death so Ishida is a key player but that's all. Gerard and Haschwalth will die the same way and that's good imo. I prefer it that way. Askins death is good enough.
Barro got done really horribly though.
@@kakashihatake1029 Hey, I think I talked to you in a video about politics.
@reddiamond3842 you probably did lol.
*Lille :* _Ooh I'm blinded by the lights.._ 🥴🪐
You know, if it really was Shinken Hakkyouken that split Soul King into pieces... then it really explains HOW Ise family curse works.
It's likely, simply, Soul King killing all who marry Ise woman with his Almighty eyes. Yhwach actually threaten that fate to anyone who would oppose him after he defeated Ichigo, but Adyneus would likely be successful and more sublime, considering his eyes are superior to his son.
True. This is the likely answer IMO, but I feel another more farfetched idea would be that the founders applied the curse to grant it the power to reflect God's light. The Ise clan were then chosen to bear that curse for a fated confrontation with Ywach or Adnyeus' vengeance.
I wonder if it was a failsafe in the event of the Soul King or a future soul king being freed and turning against Soul Society.
One thing this makes me think is the philosophical meaning of the word God. Tower of God brings the same thoughts to mind. What is a god? Who determines that? Can’t beings just become so strong and essentially immortal and then be referred to as a god by those who revere its power? (Like Zahard and the 10 Great Family heads in ToG)
That sword would had been useful against Aizen. I feel this blade was designed to tear apart dense spirit energy, it was used to cut the Soul king's body (light novel). Just saying.
Kyoraku already said he would have killed Aizen if it was that easy.
@@tmmle7 Aizen doesn't have the light of God, so it doesn't work. If he had succeeded in turning Karakura Town into a pseudo-Ōken, however...
"God's Light" Could pointedly just be Quincy's power. All of the Quincy's abilities are light themed. The more extreme use of the Quincy's powers the greater the reflective ability of the mirrors. Essentially the closer a thing becomes to being a non-solidified clump of sentient raeshi the stronger the blade is against them. The bigger beam you fire at it the more deadly and direct its counter. It seems purpose built to turn Quincy bolts back at them.
P.S. Though arguably it could probably do the same to Cero and any other "Light" ability (maybe even Getsuga).
Quincy powers as a whole are suggested to be godly power, whether the source is Yhwach or Adnyeus.
The Ise clan's connection to the Soul King would be world-shattering if it were to a) become canon and b) explored in depth. If the Shinken Hakkyoken was used to cut up Adnyeus, and the Five Noble Houses were formed from the ones that did that to him, it'd put the Ise clan as one of the Five (or possibly on par with them).
I've seen others (namely @vileluca) suggest that the founder of the Ise clan may have been the Soul King's Bride, and that the curse stems from betraying Adnyeus. That might be the case, but the nature of that curse could be Yhwach - if he's the Soul King's son, and the Ise clan are in fact descended from the Soul King's wife, then it would follow that he could've been born into the family as the last boy. The sudden deaths of their spouses could be from Yhwach using their familial connection to absorb their power; alternatively, that trait might exist in the daughters of the Ise clan as well. All of that assumes the connection exists, of course, which could be way off base
Frankly, I think that throughout this video, @MrTommo2304, you forgot that Nanao never confronted Yhwach, Pernida, nor Gerard, so she never presented the Shinken Hakkyoken to use against them. As such, we have no evidence that those three aren’t considered “holy” to the weapon. There’s no evidence that they aren’t considered “gods”
The dialogue of godly being seeing the blade as a shining light tells me juhabachs almighty wouldn't be able to see the future of of the blade
I think Nanao was not forced into a particular direction or anything because it was assumed the Ise family sword was lost and wouldn't be found again.
Nanao pulled a Rose there. Telling Lille she can reflect his light back at him..."Okay, ill punch you to death with my superior physical strenght and speed, then, throw Shinken Hakyouken off the edge of Wahrwelt, thanks"
We can imagine what secret OP weapons the higher ups in the nobility have access to, only to be revealed and deployed during a crisis then put away again immediately due to the severe imbalance of power they can initiate.
The novels already showed us Enrakyōten, the Tsuniyashiro family Zanpakuto. It can literally copy whatever other Zanpakuto abilities the user has seen, adjusted to their reiatsu.
Mrtommo can u check out how nanao sword was foreshadow. Idk where u can check it as i found someone talk about it. But from what i heard the ise family is related to Japanese mythology and the weapon nanao sword was said to kill a god n split it into parts the same way as the manga/anime. I think this weapon is actually foreshadowed all from the name ise. Used to think this is an asspull but now i think its decent tbf😅😅
So my opinion...I believe the sword was created for the purpose of challenging a god long, long ago and was used successfully (whether that god was the Soul King or some other unnamed deity). But in response to the heresy, the god bestowed a curse upon the Ise family.
21:20 I think it still will, just when they animate CFYOW when they reveal the ‘original sin’
Edit: Cause when you think about it, neither Kyoraku or Nanao (or anyone even alive other than Ichibei & maybe Oetsu) would know of the details of the ‘original sin’ to have knowledge of all of this, specifically in context
I was thinking about this today. I can reflect the power of a god but Ywach has too many ways to attack Nanao directly without his godlike powers
It really is interesting to speculate about the fact that Nanao's sword is broken and it can probably damage a few of top characters
Lille mentioned how blinding it was and how he couldn't look directly at it, which we were shown. So, in that sense, it should reflect the Almighty. Specifically, Yhwach's ability to see the future.
In fact, prior to Cour 1 (or 2, whichever we got that flashback with Ichibe), that was my theory of how Yamamoto beat Yhwach in the first war. I assumed the matriarch of the Ise clan back then temporarily blinded Yhwach, which left him vulnerable to Yamamoto's attack.
It reflects and dispurses God's power and the Quincy all use God's power so it should be able to beat any and all Quincy.
Definitely no.
If this was true. Kubo wouldn't bother himself to insert the silver arrow or even talk about uryu's A being able to counter the A.
This means all. That sword wouldn't work on yhwach which means it ain't as simple as you think.
You can't reflect the Almighty lol.
In order to relfect anything, a contact is first needed like it was shown.
The Almighty or even the A or B are all not like lile's trompette.
There's no need for a contact.
The Almighty can break that sword in the future... it can nullify its ability by just seeing it through the future.
The Antithesis can break that sword, just break anything around and reverse the damages back to this sword.
It's clearly implied that it was perfect on lile because he was emitting light.
You can even see, he no more had blood, he had light like dust light... he was entirely made of light.
This sword can't cut humans. Uryu, jugram would be in this case.
@@leilamaria-p7j The light could distract Ywach and give an opening for the Still Silver arrow, though. That, and if we stretch it far enough, it might reflect the Almighty.
It definitely can't reflect the almighty.
@MrGksarathy that is a terrible idea 😂
Yhwach can see and change the future but he gets blinded by the light from a sword lol.
Not to mention he is enveloped by absolute darkness. Barro was covered by light
@@kakashihatake1029 Just like Tommo, I think you're taking the Godly Light thing too literally. Ywach literally embodies the power of God. Is that not Divine Light? Would it not be blindingly reflected back at him, his sheer power?
The impression I got was that, it worked on Lille because he thought of himself as a god ("it doesn't feel bad to be called a god" and " you did say it reflects god's light... How sinfull...", which I took as him realising he saw himself as a god despite proclaiming himself to be merely a messanger, and realising his hypocriticy made him prideful, the most serious sin)
Can't wait for izuru kira's comeback. He better gets ALOT of love in the anime.
I was always under the impression it could reflect any energy attack and lilio is now in the form of his weapon.
I just wished they started hyping up this blade back when jugram confronted shinsui in the barracks I have a whole thing about that encounter thats too long to put in a comment now that I think about it maybe even when Nanao and Shinsui are talking about squad zero in episode 14 also I agree with that part about Quincy having gods light I always see it as like the Quincy being the chosen people. Yhwach son of god and then the Quincy are his children you get what I mean ?
Could Nanao’s sword be the one that the Soul king used to split the primordial world into the three current worlds?
It reflect the power of god, this in my brain is yhwach's quincy arrow being bounced back, so is pernida and gerard and also im sure it can cleave them, as if its an extremely sharp sword, while it basically ass spanker for non quincies