Harley Engine Quality Isn't What It Used to Be
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Harley engine quality isn't what it used to be and that's both good and bad. The newer Harley engines are still quality but just in a different way, they've eliminated a lot of problems from the past and now we have potential issues. While Harley engine quality isn't what it used to be it's actually arguably better. Yes Harley-Davidson builds them different now, yes their are failures in some cases. But comparing the failures to the 100's of thousands of bikes in service on the road the number really is pretty miniscule. Potential issues are not guaranteed so don't be afraid to modify your later model Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
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Do you feel like Harley-Davidson engine quality has gone forward or backwards with the new engines?
Evo 883 sportster. Best HD engine. Only one I'd own.
Backwards I learnt first hand with two new M8s both 50k lemons both gone never again
Video Idea.
I would love to have a series like "how to make your Harley XYZ bulletproof"
I personally own a 2012 wide glide with the 103 TC in it and would love to own this thing for a looooong time
@Shane G can't help ht ask..... 50k lemons as I 2? Total engin fail or needed some work?? I've got 70,000 on 2015 103. Couple problems over the years but nothing catastrophic
Depends on the bike, IMO. If the bike is a lighter bike, the Twin Cam and the M8 are fine. The touring bike both engines are very underpowered. Mass production and cut cost spending. To me, this just gives aftermarket companies to build parts to make the engines better all around or buy a complete aftermarket engine and don't worry about the Harley engine. The same principles apply to sports cars that become race machines. Usually, if you have the money, you drop a crate performance engine in and pull out the original engine. This way, if you sell the bike, you can sell the bike with the original engine. To me, if I'm going to beef up the original engine, it is because I want it to last, and I'm going to keep it for a long time. Otherwise, like other auto machines, I'm going to cash it in for a new one. Personally, I like 2010 softail classic. It's practical. Get me point A to point B. Ther isn't a perfect motorcycle. Just the one each biker prefers, and that's the bottom line.
I went from an Evo Sportster to a 2003 Twin Cam. Yeah, I found out the hard way that Harley cheaped out on the internal engine parts. That would be acceptable on a cheap bike but it is absolutely unacceptable on a brand that claims to be "Premium" and charges a premium price.
BTW, I miss the saggy shelf with the aerosol cans in the back. It was like a mascot.
I went from a 99 sportster that I kept for over 10 years into it 2003 road king I put about 45,000 trouble free miles on that bike. What problems did you have? I did upgrade the complete two hydraulic tensioners at 15,000 miles.
My 2003 RKP has 114,000 miles on it. still runs good. Although I had to replace cam chain tensioners 3 times BEFORE they went bad, well , that's what wrenches are for. The only other internal parts were lifters, I replaced at 100K
😂😂😂😂😂😂 thought i was the only one that noticed that !!
I had 2 1200 sporties one was 01 Buell but with absolute young fella abuse 75000kms & 55k other Absolutely for from cold startup I never had 1 issue besides a battery in either,by far most reliable engine & I've had multiple twincams M8s,dropped over 50k on both M8s & both spent more time in wrty than my shed both all same engine issues deadset lemons even with stage 4 kits etc all done from new at dealer I now have a Honda till I find the right twincam.....
I bought a '99 TC new and rode it over 100,000 miles. I put a gear drive cam and had it dyno tuned at 15.000 miles to get rid of the tensioner worry's and that engine had never been apart otherwise. I changed my oil every 2500 miles.
Up until '95 they had the bolted crank which was practically indestructible. What kind of problems did you have with yours?
Let's not forget the evolution motor was developed under AMF, they spent a lot of money and time developing a good engine that took care of all the shovelhead engine problems.
Thanks for that kind word about AMF. I always think about that company as the source of Harley’s troubles, but if they were the driving force behind the Evo then that certainly dispels that belief. I’m pretty sure that AMF was responsible for Harley’s venture into snowmobiles as well as I remember that tank they built and tried to label it as a snowmobile. Now that all the snowmobile companies are going to 4 strokes maybe Harley should try planting a Milwaukee 8 in a machine!
plus AMF brought in CNC machines
@@chrish5791 at the bankruptcy court the Davidson family begged the judge to let AMF buy Harley-Davidson because Bangor printer had a history of buying companies taking a tax write-off demolishing the factory and he would have Harley-Davidson cups and t-shirts and knickknacks but no motorcycles. Just like general Mills / MPC saved Lionel trains AMF saved Harley Davidson otherwise we would have neither one today of course they were still American made in those days both the toy trains and the motorcycles. If we were not the world's policeman bankrupting our country to keep peace in the world all of the countries that stole our prosperity would be killing each other left right and center and we would make money selling them ammunition as long as it was backed by gold 🥇🪙.
@@martincvitkovich724 The story I heard is that Vaughn Beals and friends had to buy new Cincinnati Milacron machines in order to get the loan they needed to buy the company approved.
and don't forget,AMF produced the 5 speed transmission,and the 80 c.i. 1340 c.c. engine..I had a 79,AMF-H-D Lowrider,silver,black,red pinstripes.She was beautiful,ran great,never any major problems.
Are they really that bad do you really need to ask that question ⁉️ cheap components and major areas that are prone to cause catastrophic at expensive engine failure. Compensators that make the primary change so tight IT destroys the bearings in the transmission as well as breeder issues that suck transmission oil out. Plastic manifolds and an engine runs hot enough to cook a turkey 🦃. Jeep wiring harnesses made in Mexico that go up in smoke and if you are lucky your motorcycle just not go up and smoke with it. One problem after another problem after another problem because they built their engines to be cheap and disposable. As the British say pennywise and pound-foolish. Why Harley customers do not demand to have factory rebuild their motorcycles under warranty I have no idea. Harley Davidson evolution motors for the big twin as well as the Sportster where the Pinnacle of dependability and reliability and everything they have built since then is Cheer garbage. You yourself have a million videos about all of the many many mechanical issues of the big twin engines at Harley has made over the last 20 years since the discontinuation of the evolution motor. Hundreds of rebuild videos concerning the twin cam and the milwaukee-eight having catastrophic engine failure with horrendously low mileage. you yourself banter about changing stuff like the cam plate to a good s&s cam plate yet the good plate cost $500 not including installation. And that is just the beginning. Honda and the other Japanese manufacturers would never put out engines with so many endemic problems straight from the factory. They do not use their customers as unpaid testers. Harley-Davidson went from having real customers to having Fanboys that will pay any price for any piece of garbage that they put out. And then they will nonchalantly drop five or ten thousand dollars and replace all of the cheap crap in the engine from the crankshaft all the way up. Yet I know Harley can build a reliable motorcycle if they feel like it because I have a 25 year old Forester with 400,000 miles on her. Why is Harley Davidsons most inexpensive motorcycle that most reliable and their most expensive motorcycle the most unreliable piece of s*** that ever came down 👎 a production line. AMF sold a complete line of motorcycles from a beginner to an expert, the new Harley-Davidson is a t-shirt company that sells motorcycles as a sideline. Today's $30,000 Harley has the quality of a Chinese scooter that you buy on Amazon. That is pathetic beyond words. Harley-Davidson big twin motorcycles have so many expensive problems I would not take for free that is how bad they are. And so it goes.
Couldn't have said it better myself. If people stuck together and wouldn't buy that junk they would fix it or go out of business. Either one is fine for me.
I agree. It's unthinkable that they could make a much better engine and simply chose not to. I never knew about all these issues until after I bought my 01 twin cam. I've spent over $3,000 eliminating the factory/ engineering weak spots. Why wouldn't a company want their best possible product going out the door? Allowing.012 end play on their crankpin is absurd. They're becoming a joke
Can't really agree with your fan boy chatacterization nice try though.
@@carlbruhn1772 it was a tongue-in-cheek joke. But there are many Fanboys out on UA-cam praising them to high heavens just like all of the guys who are fanboys for Lionel trains and make excuses for trains arriving with wrapping paper stuck to wet paint paint defects electronic defects broken missing parts horrible customer service and poor warranties the expense does not match the price the quality does not match the price. Let me put it this way if Harley-Davidson made aircraft I would not fly 🕊️ them.
@Frank Markovci Jr I completely see what you mean under those circumstances. If I was 18 again there is little chance the motor company would appeal to me. Just the quality of chrome, paint, and fitment of body parts alone are reason to look elsewhere. Watching fork legs pit and look like crap after 12 months is a joke. I certainly don't hold them in high regard but I certainly enjoy the ride and the wrenching.
Sounds like a divorce to me. Been there got me a Hat. Went back again, got me a T-Shirt…. Pretty sure I don’t need any more clothing…. 😮
Harley made a mistake with the EVO. They run well and for a long long time. Many keep them for years rather than trade for something without the known longevity. My 99 Softail Custom only has 65,000 on it and runs like new. And the fit and finish on the bike are fantastic. Having heard of problems of the later twin cam engines, I love the simplicity of the EVO. But Harley cannot sell new motorcycles if the old ones keep running. I have kept mine stock for the most part except for lots of Chrome the first owner put on it along with drag pipes and a K&N air filter. My 99 comforts me.
EVO's Forever. and ever. Built better than today's board of directors.
My local Harley Tech has one million miles on his EVO. He rides it every day rain or shine. I really enjoy your channel I have learned a lot.
1981 fxwg Shovel. Original motor still kicking 40+ years later 🤙
is his name Shadow?
@@mikec1254 His name is Ron
I ride mine rain shine and during cold Canadian winters
The m8 doesn't even sound like a harley. The evo sportster is the best sounding harley as well as the early twin cam engines with a carb.
I've got a 96 Sportster S and 01 FXDX and I agree 100%😊
Thank the EPA for that.
I really can't figure you Harley guys out. Spend all that money just to buy the bike. Spend another ton of money to make it able to keep up with some clapped out 600cc japanese bike and then complain when it all falls apart. I loved the sportster back in early 70's but when I bought the new 76 model it couldn't make it home and I only lived 3 miles away. After the way the factory and the dealer treated me for over a year before I could get refunded my money, l swore I would never buy another Harley period. Then in the 80's they had to go crying to Reagan for help because their product was so bad that sealed the deal. Now I just laugh at all the fanboys riding their inferior motorcycles lol
Harley-Davidson, One step forward and two steps back. When they removed the TIMIKIN and went to the flat roller they took us back to 1953. Then the tried to cheapen up on the bearings in the cam chest they took a step back to the last of the Shovel heads that came with a caged cam roller bearing that failed. H-D came out with a service bulletin that stated if a German bearing is installed remove it and install a full compliment Torrington cam bearing. They didn't learn their lesson and tried it in the Twin Cam with the same result only with no service bulletin for replacement, All they care is it that it will last until the warranty has expired. From the dawn of time until the EV2 the crankshaft was a Five piece unit with replaceable; crankpin, pinion and sprocket shafts. The EV2 has a Three piece Crank with the shafts machined from the flywheel castings. They had failures of the pinion shafts due to an improper radius in the machining cut causing a stress riser that would cause the shaft failure.( I replaced a few working for the dealership) I have built some nasty Nitro Dragsters and never had the wheels shift, since working on the twin cams I have seen more than one set of wheels scissor and it sucks. The only other failure in the EV2 was the plastic crank case breather gear that would disintegrate. Once the got those few snags worked out the were a great engine.
Keep the great video's coming and I hope everything works out to your satisfaction.
Harley Davidson, Microsoft, and Radio Shack are living proof that you dont have to have a good product to be successful !!!
Hi 👋, Great Territory, on the y and Y for change, and like a good Mariage , for better or for worse 😮😂 HA HA , don’t over rev her 😅,
Stay safe and ride safe, PHIL FROM THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOULIN FRANCE.
Keep the power mild?! Ride it Sensibly?!!! Then Harley better not sell me a "Screaming Eagle" if it's just a "clucking chicken"
I wish you guys would quit picking on shovelheads,
As far as I'm concerned you're the most informative and entertaining of any Harley Chanel out there. Keep it up and Thank You !!
100% Spot On!
I agree.ty for the information 😅
I agree 💯 ty for the videos n info
Well. Aren't you gullible?
Anything made after the Evo is cheap crap, and I call them PlastiGlides®️.
I bought an '02 Softail Springer, but sold it after 2mos, because it felt like riding a Honda, the heart and soul of the machine was gone.
My '97 WideGlide is twice the machine the new ones are, but it still makes my '72 ElectraGlide look like a tank.
You couldn't give me a new Harley.
Sportster evos rule
Most solid engine they ever made hands down!
I'm going to stick with my carbureted Evo Electra Glide Standard.
I still loved my Shovel. Easy to fix on the side of the road. You just needed to maintain it. 🏍💨🏍💨
Maybe a cam plate.. Maybe a better cam.. Maybe a bore kit... Maybe etc etc.. AND maybe the flywheel will shift
or stock run out is so BAD you can't even install a gear drive cam set up..
ALL THIS and sooo much more, on a bike that cost 30k.. WTH is going on ??
BUT every after market parts dealer has their parts or design to fix the factory screw up...
(more $$$$) WHY CAN'T OEM PARTS DO THE JOB ?? What ever happened to a bike you can RIDE .. and trust on the road ?? I've been on HD since 1979
and own three now.. Bought my 1st new one in 2018 ( got a PILE $$$ of new parts yet to install plate oil pump cam gear drive etc etc) But all this new HD since twin cam is a scam. Only sells because of a name and old turds like me trying to support America... Be sure to have your bro tow card when you leave home.. and and the fat cats at HD wonder why people THAT WANT TO RIDE are going to import bikes and giving the finger to HD and their scam..
What I know, they are not making these bikes in USA enymore ...
Because HD is a T-Shirt company selling incomplete motorcycles
could always get ironhead/shovelheads running , easy to fix . evos take a beating with no probs
The problem with "cost savings" is that they rarely trickle down to the consumer.
It's simply not about pride anymore. Just greed and investors reports
Why would you spend extra time and money on the bottom end? Shiny paint is the important thing.
And yet, neither the author, nor anyone else mentions the huge involvement of S&S in the development of the Evo. H-D' s best motor EVER!
The MoCo needs to solve the crank runout issue. Their solution was to allow for a higher runout to be considered in tolerance. Rebuilding the crank was a major expense during my 50k refresh.
Come on HD….Just weld the damn crank.
SHOVELHEAD'S RULE! 1966-1984.
This is hilarious! I have been talking to some other person on here and he says the old engines (the ones that killed HD prior to the Evo) were solid, and the new ones are solid, and Evos aren't all that. I of course told him he was one in a million. Now you publish this (I agree 100%) and it cracked me up. The timing was perfect. I plan to stick with my 1991 Evo. It seems to be solid. I also prefer the reliability of my carburetor over fuel injection, where any one thing can stop me in my tracks.
Good luck 🍀👍 with your new shop Andrew! Thanks for the great topics and sharing your knowledge! Ride on wind brother! 🏍️
Good Video, my option is Harley like any big business and they are not going to worry about the past, Harley doesn't care about the Twin cam or the Evo, its 2023 and the Milwaukee 8 and nothing else and face it there in trouble and the over 40 crowd willn't bail them out, younger gen will have too, Harley 1950 technology and 2023 prices are not impressing the younger Gen, But thks
I brought 2 brand new M8s & spent huge money on stage 4 kits full exhausts everything done right dealership over 10k on engine alone each bike & both were in shop on wrty more than my garage with stator regulators,oil pumps & backing plates,oil locks cooking engines & after 40 years riding 20 of those years with 9 Harley's I have a Honda in shed now don't own a Harley anymore,last twincam103ho I thought were great engines I never had any issues with but the M8s both were a nightmare I'd kill to get my 16 breakout back hassle free bike screw M8s never buy another
Love your channel Gixx, I look forward every week to your videos and find them very informative. Congratulations on the new move for what it’s worth.
I hear they also Put their Logo on BUT LIGHT Beer. Way To Go Harley! I drive a Honda cmx250C myself,, i hate oil leaks , no worries with a Honda.😄
I had 3 harleys, on a vulcan now, just as fun much cheaper, zero problems. and now HD is going woke partnering with Bud Light, are they out of their minds????.
Always great to hear from you, even when I don't know if temptin bearing for a crank ha ha ha . But my Evo is running great!
These new bikes are electronic nightmares. Too many things rely on sensors that piggy back on other systems, so when something goes wrong you have no idea where to start if it’s not blatantly obvious. I went through that with a 2020 streetbob.. never again. Went back to a dyna with a 96 twin cam and called it a day.
Well, don’t forget we always have S&S and if you go that way that should fix most of your problems
Harley engines have sucked for 20+ years compared to Japanese bikes.
It isn't even a comparison.
They should have stayed with the EVO.
Bulletproof, easy to work on, easy to hop up.
HD just had to screw it up.
As long as Harley keeps using multi piece cranks, cam plates, and free air cooling, durability will always be sacrificed.
I wouldn't waste my cash on Harley Oil, I run Lucas. I wont use anything else. But I own evos.
A bike that costs $20-35K should have Zero excuses when it comes to engine build quality. I have owned several new twinkie and M-8 Harleys over the years, but from here on out
I will buy nothing but big bore Evo bikes with proper Timkin bearings (and Zero crank end-play) from here on out.
The motor company deserves the bad rap they took over quality.
The fit and finish has improved dramatically in the past few years however.
It is ridiculous to consider spending $30K for a new bike when I can easily buy a show quality chopper with a big bore S&S Evo and custom paint all day long for under $8K.
Twinkie engines are junk ! Evo was the best years! Harley Porsche engine!
Evo and shovelheads forever 👍
As a Harley owner all my life and the son of a Harley owner I would like to know when did Harley ever have quality?
I'm glad i chose for the BMW R1100RS, a pretty cool design those cyl heads and having a camshaft snucked in there, futuristic suspension.
It seems to do 0-200km/h in about 11/12 seconds with only 90HP and 100nm Torque and doing 5 liter / 100km.
Man, the way you did your moves sounded like me when I got a divorce, had to move in with a friend for a fw months. hope you are doing well.
Anyway, all my bikes had issues, The Goldwing, and the Voyager come to mind and were flagship models that had major issues. Yeah, My 2009 FLHTCU had a unique set of issues that I caught before they became a problem, but, the fit form and function are, for the most part, better than the Kawasaki and Honda flag ship bikes that I had.
Lol well you guessed right! I got a divorce and had to pack the show up and go on the road. I'm all settled now in what I hope is gonna be the shop for a long time now. Every bike even the metrics have their issues, lol I remember the Voyagers as my dad ran a Kawasaki shop for years. Even the metrics aren't without their issues.
Love your educational content
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
The EVO is the best engine Harley Davidson ever made 👍🇺🇸
Who wants to ride sensibly after spending all that money for minor power gains?
I really enjoy your content. Glad to see you persevere through your recent moves!!! Always look forward to see your next topic when I tune in. Past Harleys; 96 FXSTC, 97 FLRHI, 16 FLHXS (someone totaled last summer, lucky to be alive and still riding! currently went back to an EVO 97 FXSTC, stock 9k on it from orig. owner, which I'm slowly making changes to.
I have a novel idea about this entire video. Just go out and buy a quality motorcycle to begin with...........PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!
You said something that speaks volumes. Drive sensible. Big twins are not hot rod engines, there I said it. I've had Shovels,Pans, Twin Cams and am currently on a 67 Shovel. Every one I've had required some mods to the engines for longevity. Treat them for what they are and they will take you down the road and back.
Good articles, hope new digs work out for you.
BC,You are 100% right.if you start out with a good running H-D and you treat it like it was built to be treated,then it will last you forever,there will always be maintence and some parts do wear out over time just keep up with her.If you pound her into the ground,rev the f out of her,or just don't maintain her properly,then like anything,you will end up with a broken motorcycle.Don't blame the bike,blame an aggressive right hand.
Baggers running 7s. No hotrodding there.
Congratulations on the life changing events. Hope all is well. I appreciate all the EVO content. I'm subscribed to your channel till I die. Keep up the good work 💪🏾
My 88 cubic in. Twin cam has been going for 17 years. Last carburetor model. Still running great.
Really enjoy your channel and look forward to it every week. Recently brought a one owner 97 Fatboy (Stage 1) done 22000 kms , so any info you put out on the Evo feeds my passion. Cheers 😎🇦🇺
I feel the new m8 got worse. I've seen cases that were so coarsely cut on the base gasket surface that you could catch your fingernail. And alot of other things.
I've notice that SE parts, brand new set of Screamin Eagle ported heads and the machining was absolute crap. It literally had to be cleaned up before it could even go on the bike.
Couldn't all this be solved by riding Indian?
Congratulations on your move! You definitely deserve it with all the help you’re giving us viewers
Thank you so much 🤗
I love the evo engine, but it’s not without its shortcomings. On to the twin cam. I’ve been surprised how much I’ve grown to like that engine. Sure it’s noisy, but my 88 has been good to me.
All that being said. I doubt I’ll ever be talked into an M8. I’d rather bullet proof my twin cam, and keep bubble gumming my evo back together.
88ci years with a five speed, hands down one of if not the best years for Harley. Rented a new M8 RK for 4 hours and hated the way it felt, sounded and performed, too much like a metric. I’ll gladly keep my 02’s.
I went from an 88, which burned in a garage fire, to a 110. In my opinion the 88 was a much better motor. I finally dumped the 110 for a Moto Guzzi. Major improvement over the Harleys in all aspects.
I really like my Evo, so far. My friends with TCs love my Evo.
Please put that old wonky shelf back up in your new shop. It makes us feel at home.
I bought an 01 Dyna and afterwards found out it had the Timkin bearings and bolted flywheel. Another $2,500 got me a forged cam plate, better oil pump, gear drive cams, new lifters, inner cam bearings, S&S .510 cams and adjustable pushrods. It's finally as good as an Evo. It came with a Supertrapp 2:1, K&N filter and Mikuni 42mm carb. I added a billet fork brace and Jagg oil cooler. Was going to do a 95" kit with high compression, headwork and forged pistons but it runs so well I hate to touch it but stage IV is just one step away.....
after my 95-inch t.c. went south along with the previous 88 t.c. going south. had my engine rebuilt with a balanced S&S crank, timken bearings, geared cams, and billet cam plate. along with everything else new, bumped up to a 103. after thousand mile break in, going to bell Ray synthetic. motor smoked and uses oil. I went to Bell Ray mineral oil. the oil use stopped but still smoke on a hard throttle hit. I'm stumped. is tune, too rich? 51mm throttle body.
I did get some rework done on my 2018 Road King Police with a multitude of things including a new oil pump and installed am external breather. So far it's been running great and I have about 80k miles on it. I ride it everyday down here in Florida. Hopefully it lasts
How much did the oil pump and labor cost you? Need to do the same to my 2018 Low Rider eventually.
@@Peter-nm1ps I actually bought it used with 10k miles on it. The rest I've been putting on. It's actually been very reliable and the one time that I did get it towed was for a nail in the tire and since I had the wheel and tire warranty, that didn't cost me anything
@@Peter-nm1ps that's great that it still runs good. I'm not into sport bikes anymore unless it's a track day. I just find Harley cruisers way more comfortable and practical for everyday use. To each thier own though. At least you're on two wheels. Keep riding, and keep enjoying what you're doing
@@Kajemyster The oil pump was covered under warranty and they actually changed it to a 2022 oil pump. I'm looking to changed out the cam plate, and put in a new cam as well to the ones gixxerfoo recommended for a little more power and longevity. I may have my local shop do that instead of taking it to a Harley dealership. I got quoted about $800 for the cam plate, cam and labor.
I went through the factory school in 1981 and saw a fellow trueing wheels on a modified trueing stand with a foot operated air center point, trueing more than one crankshaft a minute he was doing. The early Twincam loose cranks were fixed the dirt bike method of welding the pin. Old and retired now.
Thanks for the topic. You just confirmed my suspicion as to why they did away with the tapered crank bearings. Cost and production.
I'll never buy a Harley newer than a 2016
Thanks for your content and valuable info
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
Congrats on the new place Of course man i cant wait for a new vid every week!
Thank you for the support!
I was thought all twin cams had press fit flywheels. I know my 2000 has the Timken bottom end, but does it have that glorious Evo flywheel as well? 🤔
You're absolutely right - its pressed. GixxerFoo keeps repeating this nonsense. Not just this video but also in other.
The fact are all Twin Cam cranks are pressed together.
I have a 2000 Dyna where I this winter changed my crank for a S&S crank 4 3/8" stroke. My old 88" OEM crank are pressed.
@Søren Lønbæk I thought so. I think Harley figured the Timken bearings would support it, then got rid of those too. That's when all the trouble really began with total indicated runout
I actively looked for a lightly used 103HO instead of buying a new M8. Bought a 2016 heritage softail with only 9500 miles on it for 11k bucks. WAY better deal than 25k for a new one! Harley got it right with the 103HO and it’s more than enough power for me. Plus I think the twin cam sounds a lot better. A newer M8 just wasn’t worth spending way more money on to me
I ride a '99 Heritage Springer evolution motor is bulletproof. She rides like a dream.
Great that you've made the move and I pray you won't have any more strife. I noticed your sound is much cleaner too, lavalier mic?
Any new platform takes the end consumer to shake out the issues. Pushing the limits will bring about other issues that will never be known by the average user. That being said, good luck to those who jump on the early June release.
Congratulations on the new place! Was getting worried that something had happened when the Friday videos stopped so suddenly, I’ve been watching for a while and I’ve learned a lot. Keep the content coming!!
Torque and Horse Power are one thing but RPM's are a huge factor too .
Harley hasn't produced a "premium" (QUALITY IS RELATIVE TO CONTEMPORARY COMPETITION, read that twice if it doesn't sink in) engine since the generator era ended. Every HD engine since has had inexcusable problems including weak crankcases prone to cracking (cone Shovels, Evos) that made the aftermarket case market (House of Horsepower, Delkron, S&S, Ultima, Sputhe, Cal Products, generics) rich.
Using garbage inner cam bearings by choice (INA on Evos and Twinkies), various other casting flaws (common to early Evo heads, not just cases) deliberate downgrade to roller bearing output shafts to save production cost then calling the original tapered roller bearing an "upgrade" (Twin Cams), and more. The people who blindly defend HD because of emotional linkage are very rarely mechanics because we're busy fixing the fuckups. Cruise drive six speeds made my shop owner bros a very nice profit despite there being zero excuse for fucking up something as basic as a motorcycle gearbox.
Sportsters weren't immune (weak gearbox casings because of that stupid speedo drive cutout on 900s and early 1000s, no trap door on late Evo Sporties, the clutchernator abortion and trap door bearing issues on alternator four speeds Iron and Evo) either.
Harleys have always been raw meat and throwing away some of the drivetrain so normal it's accepted. Their legacy design which hails from an era where EVERYTHING broke early and often (the 1930s) makes them easy to rebuild which is the main functional attraction if you wrench. I've no interest in non-classic HDs since the very specific things the classics did well are the sole reasons I have HDs in my fleet.
The new ones will do fine since all it takes to sort out any luxury toy is money.
Twin Cam 103...Best engine.
This is the reason I went with a Sportster, the fact it is tried and tested for decades.
My 2005 1200 Roadster has 83,000 miles on it and was a good investment.
If a company wants to market themselves as a "premium" motorcycle manufacturer, cost cutting [at the expense of quality and reliability] should not even be in their lexicon. Harley Davidson has never understood it's core customer and neither did AMF. Prior to AMF, I think they did. And as a reminder, H-D's core customer is typically very good with a wrench. Today's H-D customer, not so much. Pretty much every problem I have ever had with any Harley Davidson resulted from poor quality OEM parts or cost saving design screwups. IMHO, H-D should sell their "cost cutting" models for a LOT less than they currently do. And offer a few models that real Bikers want (like the FXSTC) with the option of an S&S motor in it. Of course H-D's biggest problem today is that they are selling for $7-$8k over an already inflated MSRP price. Only a complete imbecile would pay that kind of $$$ for a two (or three) wheel car with a crappy motor and a fancy radio.
An Air cooled engine needs the engine oil to be kept a safe temp .. Oil cooler piston oilers ect like Buell used..
A few things to add. How many riding a TC or M8 would swap out that motor for a 80" EVO ? The new motors accomplished faster assembly, higher torque and HP output. The EPA was requiring tighter emissions controls and compliance. I'm in total agreement that the EVO was the best motor ever produced by the MoCo. I doubt those who have built monster M8 motors, would want to build a 150HP EVO.
You keep saying again and again in your videos that it was in 2003 Twin Cam went from a bolted to pressed crank: ua-cam.com/video/Mj6pRHI_qMM/v-deo.html
I don't agree. All Twin Cam cranks are pressed together, starting from 1999.
I have a 2000 88" OEM crank and it is pressed together.
Man oh man I miss my Evolution bikes! I shoulda never sold them! The twin cams were a disaster waiting to happen! Now I have the M8 and truthfully I quite like a lot. I have a 2017 model, that I took upon myself to fix the oil pressure issue. So far it's been a really reliable engine and in fact the 107" motor was just fine as far as I'm concerned. I don't need to go or accelerate any faster or better. It's a bagger, fast is relative to your destination. I didn't buy mine to race it that's for sure. But I did cam it up and with the S&S .475c cam and did a few other choice mods that kept it reliable. Getting back to the Evolution motors, I rarely if at all had issues with the motor itself, I did however had a terrible issue with the EV-1 cam that slowly disintegrated and took out my bottom end, thank god for Delcron! Evos are still my favorite AMF motor and Harley-Davidson was smart for keeping it as long as they did.
Harley was begging the public’s forgiveness kind of like MicroSoft was doing after the horrendous mistakes of Me, Vista, Windows 8 and 8.1 with the giveaway of Windows 10. Why don’t these corporations throw their bean counters and management under the bus before they destroy their reputations (i.e. Bud Light)?
Harleys quality sucks. I’ve been through my share of Harley’s over the years. My last Harley was a new 2017 M8. Nothing but problems with the oil pump coming apart destroying my engine, a leak from the transmission into the primary,and other items. Left Harley, never going back to a new bike, maybe pickup a twin can, which I wish I would have kept.
old bud lite cans as pistons was a bad idea
I was just a kid when AMF took over, the company that made bowling alley equipment is now in charge of an American icon. 54 years is a long time to fix known issues, suck up to Ronald Reagan, make 100cc dirt bikes and still use pushrod technology older than dirt. I understand tradition and think electric Harleys are stupid but the "new" twin cam belongs on the Flintstones.
We don't want V4's or four cams, we just want it to work EVERY day without taking out a second mortgage.
I have had several shovels over the years new and used . I never had any issues with them and were quite reliable with proper maintenance and upkeep. That’s the major problem with the shovels was the lack of maintenance cause the majority of the problems .
Facts 👌 💯
After I bought my shovels (used) and all the issues were fixed, they have given me no problems whatsoever. (knock on wood)
I believe you're right. Shovels were reliable if they were maintained properly. The other reason for their bad reputation was too many of them wound up in the hands of people that simply abused them.
100% right, I have had shovels half my life with no problems out of the ordinary.
That’s true with all engines.
Yea yea yeah Young fella THE GRUMPY BIKER HERE ,MATE RUNNIN ME OL P.O.S. SHOVELHEAD LOVING EVERY LOPING MINUTE .TELL ME ? WHERE DID THE END OF VIDEO DOG FART FOR H D GO ????? THANSK WILD BILL AND ROCCO THE HOUND DOG
When i was thought Harley could not do wrong. I bought my first twincam a couple years ago. Needless to say those greedy basturds put a bad taste in my mouth. Every time i think about what they've turned the company into , makes me sick to my stomach.
Welcome to the Harley bashing channel.
Here's what I do,if I don't like like a product, organization,event , place I don't buy, support,use or have anything to do with it. Wining,pissing and moaning on UA-cam isn't going to make anything better.
We saved $113.28 per unit and we’re going to charge an extra $896.54 per unit next year! 🎉
New owner spends $6000.00 to fix the cheap bs.
It's everything in the auto/MC industry.
Our local Toyota maintenance shop manager told us recently he can't recommend buying a new car, and to keep our 14 year old SUV as it's running well and in good condition. He said he talks to all the auto maintenance managers (all the brands/companies) in his region and ALL of them say their new vehicles for the past several years are recall/repair nightmares right off the lots.
Sad state of affairs...
A lot of the Milwaukee 8 when you change the Fluids you will have metal on all 3 drain plugs including the engine. I put s&S 1200 KITin the 2021 883. The gear case was loaded with metal fragments from when the cases were machined and not cleaned properly.
For a 4 stroke engine I can’t believe the M8 oil use. HD say that 1qt for every 1500 miles is acceptable ! Mine currently is using 1qt every 3700 miles but isn’t that still excessive ? And it’s expensive $
right...quality way better now..
when I stsrted riding in the 1960's..brand new harleys leaked oil on dealers showroom floor...if your bike did'nt leak ..you were out of oil...then AMF came in and ended most leaks,but rest of motor sucked so bad it was'nt funny...when Willie G took over things got back on track sort of...now even better .. to me,if it ain't broke leave it alone...they need to stop wanting to one up themselves..
let after market vendors mess things up..let the strong,solid harley engine do its job and stop changing things...
Computers and hi tech doesn't equal quality. Look at the pyramids and ask yourself if you can cut rock with a hardness of 8 , close to the hardness of the crankshaft of a Harley while using softer metals like copper or brass. This should tell you mankind are in general on the wrong path, Zen and the Art of motorcycle maintenance. A book of hippy wisdom that may serve a critical mind some logic and space when they are trying to let go of the insanity and speed of modern life. But look at a Vincent or Levis , they are crude but beautiful in a crazy way. Not like this computerized sterile world they are building. Soon you will be riding a Harly Live wire , the second most ugly bike ever created. ( Only because it wouldn't be fair to call it the ugliest)
My 53 Pan has 340, 000 miles on it, 2 rebuilds, it was in a garage from 70 to 88 when I bought with 32, 000miles on it. 2 kicks or 3 she fires up ... 45 miles to a gallon.. 80mph easy. tops out out 112 mph, changed the trans sprocket toget a faster topend.