True Story: I once stayed in this crappy hotel and there was a selection of crappy videos in the cupboard... there was one video without a label, we gambled on that one, we put it in the video player and it was a VHS recording of this concert... Amazement!
Morris is a human metronome. He's the most overlooked and underrated part of the whole JD/NO equation. Hook is the consummate ledbetter, he is nails, and without him and his style of play I don't think either band would have achieved such great heights. As much as I love Bernie, my god he looks so awkward in this recording. I can't imagine the feeling of standing in his shoes during this period of time. He's a fantastic guitar player, and he most certainly settled into his own on the vocals in later years, but he was clearly trying to ape or pay respect to Ian during this show. Gillian never got the love or the respect that she deserved. She held down the fort for so many years while these guys were trying to find their legs, this show included. Bernie could barely hold the neck or find the frets while he was singing at this point, she did an admirable job of keeping the wheels on track. And I'm not hating on Bernard, he's a great player. What a fascinating document of a place and time that shaped decades that followed. Thanks for sharing this video!
jbrosnan + Of their live appearances, this is perhaps my favorite. We would be commenting on how Ian's singing was here, sadly we will never and for those who Love this band we witness the gravity here. I am prone to anger at those who mindlessly critique Gillian, for as you wrote she held the center as did Stephen ( Jesus, he's so fucking phenomenal it's scary..HA! ). They could've walked after this but there are moments of magic here as with this song ( perhaps my favorite) that look on Bernie's face as he glances over at Gillian is so telling, and she responded by pushing him musically. .." Heaven knows it's got to be this time... Peace
Best song EVER! This is a favorite video & version of this song. Even though it's sad to see them trying to go it on their own without Ian. & Bernie hadn't yet found his voice. What's so moving & raw about it is that it's so REAL, they still seem to be Joy Division struggling into becoming New Order. The transition they're going through is evident here, yet their talent, musicianship, & feelings for the music are undeniable. My heart breaks for their loss. They've come SO far & are still going strong, if only Hookie would rejoin. Love this REAL version so much.
Bernie never wanted to be the singer, but IMO he has done a great job over the years. You just cannot replace Ian Curtis as he was so visual as well as a brilliant singer. This song is the last song to be performed with Ian and is my personal favorite New Order song too.
You can see, by the pitch of their voices (Bernard and Hooky) that they trying to mimic Ian's voice somehow, especially because this song was written and sung by Curtis on their last concerts. I guess they were desperate to find something to fill the void. They still maintained that austere visual and stage presence... I'd like to know what made them change so abruptly around 1981-1982... you pick a video from late 1982 on and Bernard is wearing shorts, Hookey let his hair grow (wearing really loose clothes)... and they all seemed quite outgoing lol Hopefully Hooky will write that second book.
Stephan was on the level of drum expertise, where he had to wait for them to catch up instead of them waiting for him, because the drumming is so clear and fast
+Peter Erickson Origami Curious, are the reports that Martin H was especially hard on Stephen true? So much gets morphed over time, not sure what to believe or not. I do remember hearing that from time to time and, amusingly enough, the "biographic" (I use that term very loosely here) pop film "24 Hour Party People" even makes a point to showcase Martin's vitriol towards Stephen. Always wondered about this. Anyone on this thread know him personally or know the story it would be interesting to hear. Nobody at the P&W is keen to discuss it, lol.
You guys do know this WAS a joy division song, right? It's ians lyrics, that's why bernards singing so low. This and 'in a lonely place' were the last j/d songs and both recorded by new order. There's a live version with Ian singing on the Still record. Rusty, but beautiful. A sort of tribute, really.
I have no idea how people can criticise New Order, this is an alternative version of Ceremony but Barney and Co captured the emotions Ian was trying to express in later versions! He'd been lead singer for just over a year, so give him a break! New Order are a whole different band and whilst there is still a massive Joy Division influence, these guys are responsible for the some of the greatest music from the 80s and 90s, remember that
being a musician like peter, doesn't need to be soo good to invent his own signature bassline. and bernard's voice, is a trademark. well not so good but its a trademark for new order songs
I agree. Stephen is the best technical musician was my point. Without their individual personalities and lack of formal training they would not have been what they are.
This is one of my favorite songs of all time, I'm constantly coming back to this particular video to hear this version, bacause I can never get enough of the song
I really find it funny how some people are unaware that New Order are the remaining members of JD, and start slaging NO. I grew up in the 80's and being a fan of one of those band and not knowing the other would be almost unheard of. I've seen this lot in this decade. I'm sure there were people aloof of this in the 80's too, but nobody I knew and people who listend to NO & JD were a select group of individuals back then.
re- kaleidoscopegrrl It's a classic, the production on the studio 7" is beautiful. Martin Hannett produced it, the man had a good ear for the perfect sound and the right arrangement. Getting on for nearly thirty years(!) since this was written and I'm liking it as much as i did in 81.
This was my favourite song at that time. I saw New Order at the Hacienda early on - must have been early 83(??) (memory fails me). Temptation and this song were the highlights although they didn't really do this justice as Bernie's voice really got drowned out by Hooky. They were special at that time
My favourite version of all time. Rough and raw, classic early NO. This was the only JD song NO played (for about 20 years). There is an old demo version with Ian Curtis signing it.
when pink floyd lost their singer songwriter, syd barrett, it took a little time for the new guy ,david, and richard and roger and nick to move forward. bernard seems so alone , and luckily ,survived overwhelming odds . having the greatest drummer and bassist on earth may have helped. the exquisite beauty of pink floyd is tearfully equaled by this phenomenally talented group. the love out there for just these two bands is immeasurable,almost infinite. forever.
@thirtythree303 that is awesome...good on ya. i remember the first time i stumbled upon an old show i attended (a void show in philly circa 1986)...it made me feel old and young at the same time!
Thank you New Order, thanks a bunch to have kept Joy Division alive... must have been hard at some point. Ian is dead... but with your passion your kept JD alive, but you are NEW ORDER, well, since not so long ago at least.
I always liked early new order better, when they still sounded joy division-ish and not as synthy. Peter Hook's book, unknown pleasures is a must. But it's really about joy division not new order, although I heard him in an interview say he wants to do a new order book. I know some people may think they won't learn anything new, but it's so insightful and a great look at how the band came to be, and him talking about Ian is just heart wrenching
Thank you for posting I remember thier first concert in London Also remeber seeing them just like this ahh those halcion days p.s. yes I remember seeing Joy Division many times too. when people listen to you, dont you know it means a lot
That was my first thought as well. I have this recording on cd, but when you compare it to Radiohead's (very good) version, Steve's skills are eveident. "I always wanted to be a drum machine" -Steve Morris
@Eyesighttotheblind ...yeah, the intro is nice. The guys (and Gillian) seem to be really concentrating. I like your name. I had to think for a minute, then I got it. Peter Townsend in the film "Tommy". I saw it in 1975! With the rest of the Who, Elton John, Tina Turner, etc. The song "Eyesight to the Blind" was awesome.
This is one of the great early songs. I love the mood of the whole of this concert. It is consistent with the perceived attitude of the band at the time, who had been getting very irritated with continual inane questions about Joy Division from the media. It is great that it was filmed.
i think they should have slowed it down a wee bit...but,in my opinion,nothing can compare to Ian's vocals..they are just so much more raw and heartfelt...i miss him,and i didn't know him at all,except through his music,and happily,he shall live on forever for it...which is beautiful...
Ian wrote this song... And where the heck did you dig that assumption up? New Order stated they were devastated when Ian killed himself cause they thought their future was over. Ian was a mastermind, probably the best lyricist i have ever heard. New Order just did a different style a couple years after Ian's death, because they couldn't write that genre as well as Ian.
I agree with you on most of what you said except that New Order did had quite a few non-synth or little-synth songs in the mid-80s. It's just that their biggest hits are often heavy in synth, but their best songs are not all hits.
This was really touching, DON'T YOU compare versions, it doesn't matter, its an epic song, its a hell of a song! They are music geniuses, I haven't heard much of their work as NO but as JD they were flawless, and Bernand feels the song, and make others feel it too. So stop comparisons, its unfair, just let the song get into you... Btw, Stephen Morris is one of the greatest drummers ever!!!
Joy Division/New Order music either moves you or you miss it. This is a great video as ell1981 says this is shortly after Ian's death. Two great bands!
Oh totally! Martin did it, you could so hear everything he did when you compare Unknown Pleasures to Warsaw, but Martin had Ian there also who would always be open minded about it and everything else. Stephen did craft the sound as well but I am thinking that it was also the freedom that Factory had with them that propelled them as well. I like you sir! We are on the same page!
I've viewed this video many times. They sound like an almost totally different band in 2019 but still sound relevant after 41 years. In the music industry.. Barney's vocal style definetelly changed since the Low Life album.
Well as you said the freedom offered by Tony Wilson and co allowed something to come which would never have occurred if on a larger record label. Although the comparison is different, there is something about the early rougher sound of Warsaw which was evident at the live concerts, an example would be the recording of Novelty at the factory (on heart and soul) this was what I thought something more to use a stupid word savage and raw about it.Even at the final concert at Birmingham this remained
You're exactly right, in fact the Killers took their name from the fictitious band in the New Order video for Crystal. They do a great cover of Joy Division's Shadow Play for the Control soundtrack.
Oh no Sir, I must say you're wrong. That;s why I love New Order - the fact that they play both non-synth as well as synth peppy pop music (very well at that). I saw on documentary that they turned to synth sometime after Ian's death (to move away from gloom/doom rock).
True Story: I once stayed in this crappy hotel and there was a selection of crappy videos in the cupboard... there was one video without a label, we gambled on that one, we put it in the video player and it was a VHS recording of this concert... Amazement!
and you became Jagwar Ma!
Where was that hotel and when did you stay there? Cool story!
Wow
Stephen is the best human drum machine around!
Verified with 27 subs?
That's what I noticed too he's always on point live or not he's bad ass!! Drummer
Morris is a human metronome. He's the most overlooked and underrated part of the whole JD/NO equation. Hook is the consummate ledbetter, he is nails, and without him and his style of play I don't think either band would have achieved such great heights. As much as I love Bernie, my god he looks so awkward in this recording. I can't imagine the feeling of standing in his shoes during this period of time. He's a fantastic guitar player, and he most certainly settled into his own on the vocals in later years, but he was clearly trying to ape or pay respect to Ian during this show. Gillian never got the love or the respect that she deserved. She held down the fort for so many years while these guys were trying to find their legs, this show included. Bernie could barely hold the neck or find the frets while he was singing at this point, she did an admirable job of keeping the wheels on track. And I'm not hating on Bernard, he's a great player. What a fascinating document of a place and time that shaped decades that followed. Thanks for sharing this video!
jbrosnan +
Of their live appearances, this is perhaps my favorite. We would be commenting on how Ian's singing was here, sadly we will never and for those who Love this band we witness the gravity here. I am prone to anger at those who mindlessly critique Gillian, for as you wrote she held the center as did Stephen ( Jesus, he's so fucking phenomenal it's scary..HA! ).
They could've walked after this but there are moments of magic here as with this song ( perhaps my favorite) that look on Bernie's face as he glances over at Gillian is so telling, and she responded by pushing him musically.
.." Heaven knows it's got to be this time...
Peace
Best song EVER! This is a favorite video & version of this song. Even though it's sad to see them trying to go it on their own without Ian. & Bernie hadn't yet found his voice. What's so moving & raw about it is that it's so REAL, they still seem to be Joy Division struggling into becoming New Order. The transition they're going through is evident here, yet their talent, musicianship, & feelings for the music are undeniable. My heart breaks for their loss. They've come SO far & are still going strong, if only Hookie would rejoin. Love this REAL version so much.
You nail it, I was just thinking the same thing, so much joy division, so little yet New Order, but so awesome. Great version.
@@cyberpunk33 And I am thinking the same thing 5 years later. I saw The Light just last October. It was transcendent.
Also my favourite song. I like the version on Substance 87 best. Also, check out the cover by a band called The Blackouts. I really like it.
the transition from joy division to new order makes so much sense to me after watching this video...simple observation
Greatest song of all time.
A prime example of how to play a bass.
I was 17 when they did this. Now, I'm 55. Time flies. One of my Top 10 bands.
Yeah I was 19.... and watching this it seems like yesterday
One of rocks best comeback stories.
32 years and a day but seems like just yesterday...
I was there, I remember the gig well.
Stephen Morris might be my favorite drummer of all time, he is a machine
I like how on early New order stuff Bernard seems to be emulating Curtis' singing.
Bernie never wanted to be the singer, but IMO he has done a great job over the years.
You just cannot replace Ian Curtis as he was so visual as well as a brilliant singer.
This song is the last song to be performed with Ian and is my personal favorite New Order song too.
Oh Bernard so damn cute so nervous love this band! I think they were so emotional during this how they did I don't know.brillant!!
You can see, by the pitch of their voices (Bernard and Hooky) that they trying to mimic Ian's voice somehow, especially because this song was written and sung by Curtis on their last concerts. I guess they were desperate to find something to fill the void. They still maintained that austere visual and stage presence... I'd like to know what made them change so abruptly around 1981-1982... you pick a video from late 1982 on and Bernard is wearing shorts, Hookey let his hair grow (wearing really loose clothes)... and they all seemed quite outgoing lol Hopefully Hooky will write that second book.
Pedro Forastieri i believe hooky did release a second book. inside new order
Michele Neri
I didnt know he had already released, thanks! I'll be watching him playing here next week :)
Probably cocaine
Trying to be their own band and not live in Ian’s shadow.
Forastieri They were trying to hit the right notes. Ian was baritone, while Barney and Hooky are tenors.
Saw New Order live around 1985 in SoCal and they opened with this - perfect!
Stephan was on the level of drum expertise, where he had to wait for them to catch up instead of them waiting for him, because the drumming is so clear and fast
He's a human drum machine lol truly a badass on the drums!!
Roy Mustang Of course
+Peter Erickson Origami I was about to say the forgotten member of New Order is Stephen Marchment! Super nice guy, too.
+Peter Erickson Origami Curious, are the reports that Martin H was especially hard on Stephen true? So much gets morphed over time, not sure what to believe or not. I do remember hearing that from time to time and, amusingly enough, the "biographic" (I use that term very loosely here) pop film "24 Hour Party People" even makes a point to showcase Martin's vitriol towards Stephen.
Always wondered about this. Anyone on this thread know him personally or know the story it would be interesting to hear. Nobody at the P&W is keen to discuss it, lol.
Peter Erickson Origami aka the human drum machine
You guys do know this WAS a joy division song, right? It's ians lyrics, that's why bernards singing so low. This and 'in a lonely place' were the last j/d songs and both recorded by new order. There's a live version with Ian singing on the Still record.
Rusty, but beautiful. A sort of tribute, really.
I have no idea how people can criticise New Order, this is an alternative version of Ceremony but Barney and Co captured the emotions Ian was trying to express in later versions! He'd been lead singer for just over a year, so give him a break! New Order are a whole different band and whilst there is still a massive Joy Division influence, these guys are responsible for the some of the greatest music from the 80s and 90s, remember that
this is probably the best live version of this song available on youtube
Didn't Stephen say in some interview he wanted to be a drum machine? You are, my good man, you are.
I love that slow zoom out on Barney at 3:42. The three of them there in one frame, still standing, having gone through so much.
Aww Barney's so cute and handsome here :') Ian Curtis is truly missed... RIP
bringing some untouchable musically authenticity from old europe to new york city.
Stephen Morris was the best musician in the group.
true
being a musician like peter, doesn't need to be soo good to invent his own signature bassline. and bernard's voice, is a trademark. well not so good but its a trademark for new order songs
I agree. Stephen is the best technical musician was my point. Without their individual personalities and lack of formal training they would not have been what they are.
....along with Peter Hook.
Bernard is really good at the guitar (JD & recorded No songs), it's just that he's not so good at playing and singing at the same time live.
This is one of my favorite songs of all time, I'm constantly coming back to this particular video to hear this version, bacause I can never get enough of the song
Thanks for writing this song. Since i heard it for the first time it will remain on me forever
I really find it funny how some people are unaware that New Order are the remaining members of JD, and start slaging NO. I grew up in the 80's and being a fan of one of those band and not knowing the other would be almost unheard of. I've seen this lot in this decade. I'm sure there were people aloof of this in the 80's too, but nobody I knew and people who listend to NO & JD were a select group of individuals back then.
re- kaleidoscopegrrl
It's a classic, the production on the studio 7" is beautiful. Martin Hannett produced it, the man had a good ear for the perfect sound and the right arrangement.
Getting on for nearly thirty years(!) since this was written and I'm liking it as much as i did in 81.
I saw them 3 times (2 in LA - Greek Theatre & 1 in NorCal - Shoreline). One of my all time favorite bands. I still listen to their music regularly.
I'm from Montreal and I've seen the 316 DVD at a couple stores.
1981... Ian should have been on the stage singing this :(
This was my favourite song at that time. I saw New Order at the Hacienda early on - must have been early 83(??) (memory fails me). Temptation and this song were the highlights although they didn't really do this justice as Bernie's voice really got drowned out by Hooky. They were special at that time
My favourite version of all time. Rough and raw, classic early NO.
This was the only JD song NO played (for about 20 years). There is an old demo version with Ian Curtis signing it.
so amazing ♡ I love new order and I love Joy division forever :)
Gillian on guitar, nice.
This is one of my favorite songs.
Magnificient - simply magnificient.
i listened to new order growing up. reminds me of my childhood :)
Haven't seen this video in so long, and yet something drew me back to it today, exactly 21 years after it was performed.
amazing clip. I saw NO in Chicago on the summer '83 tour, but this 81 stuff is awesome!
all i can say is god bless joy division, god bless NewOrder and god bless Tony Wilson and Ian Curtis x
there all god like geniuses
I love that you can watch them play this same song over their entire career.
great quality for such an old video!! great song
this song just goes right through me
absolutely beautiful
Gillian playing the guitar 💝💕💟
Yes!
how can someone drum so fast, gr8 to know they continued so soon after IC died :)
I love this song.
It's amazing.
New Order rocks.
This is my favorite song.
Instrumentally--and even vocally--this rocks...New Order's minimalism is dead on...goosebumps and memories fill the space around the melodies...
when pink floyd lost their singer songwriter, syd barrett, it took a little time for the new guy ,david, and richard and roger and nick to move forward. bernard seems so alone , and luckily ,survived overwhelming odds . having the greatest drummer and bassist on earth may have helped. the exquisite beauty of pink floyd is tearfully equaled by this phenomenally talented group. the love out there for just these two bands is immeasurable,almost infinite. forever.
from PERU, I love you guys!
This song is their core, this is when a band has all elements at it"s peak. bass, drums, guitar ,vocals. Love you guys since Substance!!!!
Saw them at this time ( same week as Ceremony release ) , MBRO Rock Garden. BRILLIANT.
Love the urgency of this version of the song-- it sounds like joy division
@thirtythree303 that is awesome...good on ya. i remember the first time i stumbled upon an old show i attended (a void show in philly circa 1986)...it made me feel old and young at the same time!
Thank you New Order, thanks a bunch to have kept Joy Division alive... must have been hard at some point. Ian is dead... but with your passion your kept JD alive, but you are NEW ORDER, well, since not so long ago at least.
I always liked early new order better, when they still sounded joy division-ish and not as synthy. Peter Hook's book, unknown pleasures is a must. But it's really about joy division not new order, although I heard him in an interview say he wants to do a new order book. I know some people may think they won't learn anything new, but it's so insightful and a great look at how the band came to be, and him talking about Ian is just heart wrenching
That one was for Ian
Ian Curtis in my Heart forever
@kissmiazz01 - same thoughts here ,when i die this a song should be played at my funeral too hahah
morris plays those drums like a machine! this is truly one of the greatest songs of all time imho. just like flying to different stratospheres..
This vid its awesome!!..saved to favs!!!!..great quality!, thankxs a lot for that!!
So true. This is one of the timeless songs.
Cool Memory. I saw 'em in '89 at the Shoreline with PIL and the Sugar Cubes. God!! I was still a teenager then, where does the time go???
Thank you for posting I remember thier first concert in London
Also remeber seeing them just like this
ahh those halcion days
p.s. yes I remember seeing Joy Division many times too.
when people listen to you, dont you know it means a lot
wish i could have saw them when ian was alive..JOY DIVISION ..THE BEST
That was my first thought as well. I have this recording on cd, but when you compare it to Radiohead's (very good) version, Steve's skills are eveident. "I always wanted to be a drum machine" -Steve Morris
"heaven knows, it's got to be this time"
@Eyesighttotheblind ...yeah, the intro is nice. The guys (and Gillian) seem to be really concentrating. I like your name. I had to think for a minute, then I got it. Peter Townsend in the film "Tommy". I saw it in 1975! With the rest of the Who, Elton John, Tina Turner, etc. The song "Eyesight to the Blind" was awesome.
first time i have seen this tune live. IC would be proud. Superb.
NEVER :) !!!! but NEW ORDER sounds really good. In spite of they are alike JD, they have their own tone.
Timeless, classic ... the same adjectives everyone else has used but what else can you say? Simply outstanding, thanks for uploading this!
This is one of the great early songs.
I love the mood of the whole of this concert. It is consistent with the perceived attitude of the band at the time, who had been getting very irritated with continual inane questions about Joy Division from the media. It is great that it was filmed.
sooo moving. It's awesome!
i think they should have slowed it down a wee bit...but,in my opinion,nothing can compare to Ian's vocals..they are just so much more raw and heartfelt...i miss him,and i didn't know him at all,except through his music,and happily,he shall live on forever for it...which is beautiful...
The spirit of Ian is all around them ❤
Ian wrote this song... And where the heck did you dig that assumption up? New Order stated they were devastated when Ian killed himself cause they thought their future was over. Ian was a mastermind, probably the best lyricist i have ever heard. New Order just did a different style a couple years after Ian's death, because they couldn't write that genre as well as Ian.
Felt like I just popped that in the VCR. Thanks!
I love it. This song is brilliant you are absolutely right. The only people I can picture playing it as well is THE CURE.
I agree with you on most of what you said except that New Order did had quite a few non-synth or little-synth songs in the mid-80s. It's just that their biggest hits are often heavy in synth, but their best songs are not all hits.
This was really touching, DON'T YOU compare versions, it doesn't matter, its an epic song, its a hell of a song! They are music geniuses, I haven't heard much of their work as NO but as JD they were flawless, and Bernand feels the song, and make others feel it too. So stop comparisons, its unfair, just let the song get into you...
Btw, Stephen Morris is one of the greatest drummers ever!!!
the bassline gets me everytime
Joy Division/New Order music either moves you or you miss it. This is a great video as ell1981 says this is shortly after Ian's death. Two great bands!
this sad makes me sad cause of ian :/
and its weird seeing them perfom this song live like 30 years later ! they still sound so good.
日々の生活に追われて忘れてた大事な事を思い出す度この動画を見に来てる。言葉にならない何かの象徴。できれば死ぬまで続けたいルーティーン。
Oh totally! Martin did it, you could so hear everything he did when you compare Unknown Pleasures to Warsaw, but Martin had Ian there also who would always be open minded about it and everything else. Stephen did craft the sound as well but I am thinking that it was also the freedom that Factory had with them that propelled them as well. I like you sir! We are on the same page!
I've viewed this video many times. They sound like an almost totally different band in 2019 but still sound relevant after 41 years. In the music industry.. Barney's vocal style definetelly changed since the Low Life album.
Well as you said the freedom offered by Tony Wilson and co allowed something to come which would never have occurred if on a larger record label. Although the comparison is different, there is something about the early rougher sound of Warsaw which was evident at the live concerts, an example would be the recording of Novelty at the factory (on heart and soul) this was what I thought something more to use a stupid word savage and raw about it.Even at the final concert at Birmingham this remained
We appreciate it dude/dudette. Thanks much.
You're exactly right, in fact the Killers took their name from the fictitious band in the New Order video for Crystal. They do a great cover of Joy Division's Shadow Play for the Control soundtrack.
This Bass Player wrote a book called "unknown pleasures" and "the hacienda:how not to run a nightclub"
un clasico de los clasicos
Great post - thanks
thanks for posting the lyrics
Steve Morris was ranked #5 on Stylus Magazines 50 Greatest Rock Drummers of All Time... and he is well -deserved
Oh no Sir, I must say you're wrong. That;s why I love New Order - the fact that they play both non-synth as well as synth peppy pop music (very well at that). I saw on documentary that they turned to synth sometime after Ian's death (to move away from gloom/doom rock).
The army that marches with Steven Morris before it is indestructible
sublime.
That drummer is on fire! :D
Spot on. I was thinking the same thing.