Why Elton takes 2½ minutes to get to the chorus

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  • Опубліковано 17 жов 2020
  • Use this link to get 10% off the Vidami UA-cam Looper with code 'DavidBennettPiano10': vidami.com/?ref=DavidBennett.
    I genuinely think the Vidami makes transcribing, analysing and learning music so much easier! It massively speeds up the process of working out exactly what a song is doing by allowing you to loop and slow down the video.
    Tiny Dancer is not only regarded as one of Elton John’s finest songs, it is also noteworthy for holding off its chorus until two and half minutes in! The ‘golden rule’ of song structuring is to get to the chorus as quickly as possible, ideally in the first minute, so how has Elton managed to craft such a legendary song whilst also disregarding this typical, formulaic approach to arrangement.
    SOURCES:
    Elton Record Sales USA: www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?t...
    Tiny Dancer’s initial release: www.rollingstone.com/music/mu...
    Elton interview 2019: www.theguardian.com/music/201...
    Elton explaining Tiny Dancer (1971): • Elton John Aquarius 19...
    “Tiny Dancer” live at the BBC (1971): • Elton John - Tiny Danc...
    Chart Positions: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elton_J...
    An extra special thanks goes to Vidad Flowers, Austin Russell, Christopher Ryan, Toot & Paul Peijzel, the channel’s Patreon saints! 😇
    SUPPORT ME ON PATREON: / davidbennettpiano

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,3 тис.

  • @odw_99
    @odw_99 3 роки тому +3385

    The fact that this video gets to the Tiny Dancer chorus faster than the song does

  • @alex_montoya
    @alex_montoya 3 роки тому +2536

    I've always defended that the waiting for the chorus is one of the reasons that makes the 'Thriller' video so popular.

    • @joe0xygen244
      @joe0xygen244 3 роки тому +34

      Ive always thought the same thing

    • @candelise
      @candelise 3 роки тому +40

      Hardly due to superior songwriting. The music is simply serving the visuals

    • @sozeytozey
      @sozeytozey 3 роки тому +37

      Thought the exact same thing. The anticipation makes the payoff significantly better

    • @AlexeBriand2002
      @AlexeBriand2002 3 роки тому +18

      the album and single versions of Thriller follow the norm though

    • @david-lf9vn
      @david-lf9vn 3 роки тому +5

      It’s always worth the wait for the conga

  • @davasg96
    @davasg96 3 роки тому +221

    Some UA-camrs even sneak in a Beatles mention less than 1 minute into the video!

  • @vishnugopakumar8807
    @vishnugopakumar8807 3 роки тому +704

    No Beatles in the thumbnail? Worry not, Beatles within 50 seconds

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +166

      🤣🤣 I can’t help it!

    • @jaschul
      @jaschul 3 роки тому +4

      @@DavidBennettPiano any interest in giving Brian Wilson the "Beatles treatment"?

    • @camatzuma
      @camatzuma 3 роки тому +5

      @@BeatlesCentricUniverse
      It’s not like it’s a fair fight, 1 v 4

    • @deathintheair8453
      @deathintheair8453 3 роки тому +3

      I think elton is way better then the beatles

    • @Macca1000001
      @Macca1000001 3 роки тому +2

      Beatles are waaayyy overhyped.

  • @ZaveAres
    @ZaveAres 3 роки тому +829

    Didn't even realize it took that long to get to the chorus it's that good

    • @laukseler359
      @laukseler359 3 роки тому +8

      Same mate, I saw the video and clicked because I was like: “What do you mean, it’s perfect!”

    • @Lcngopher
      @Lcngopher 3 роки тому +7

      Dont stop believing takes about 4 minutes to get to the title of the song

    • @ncburton1713
      @ncburton1713 3 роки тому +2

      I didn't realize either until I clicked on this video. I think that's the true magic. You're enjoying the song to much to really care about the structure.

    • @Brindlebrother
      @Brindlebrother 3 роки тому

      that's exactly what you want her to say ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • @PheonixNebula
    @PheonixNebula 3 роки тому +1073

    This reminds me of Phil Collins' "In The Air Tonight", where you have to wait for 3:14 for a breakdown, completely changing how the song feels.

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +266

      Good point! That drum entrance is such a pay-off!

    • @gustavoroman2214
      @gustavoroman2214 3 роки тому +51

      Yeah, especially when he plays it live and casually walks towards the drums before the drop 👌

    • @SubtleHawk
      @SubtleHawk 3 роки тому +48

      Don't Stop Believing as well. 3:27 to get to the chorus.

    • @Kylora2112
      @Kylora2112 3 роки тому +36

      @@SubtleHawk That's not the chorus; that's just the part where they say the title of the song. The chorus is the "Strangers...waiting..." part (the "Don't stop...believing" part is the verse instrumentation with the chorus vocal melody). #weirdhillsiwilldieon

    • @SubtleHawk
      @SubtleHawk 3 роки тому +8

      @@Kylora2112 You can think of that part as a pre-chorus. Just because it repeats doesn't mean it's the chorus.

  • @gustavoroman2214
    @gustavoroman2214 3 роки тому +408

    This says a lot about human nature, the way anticipation adds so much to being rewarded with stimuli. Anticipating pleasure is almost better than getting it.

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +39

      Good point!

    • @pw9258
      @pw9258 3 роки тому +7

      Until you realize she's not coming home tonight....

    • @bonnibloop_
      @bonnibloop_ 2 роки тому

      @Soy Orbison that is from the song mission from his album "Euphoria Morning"

    • @hyperdrive282
      @hyperdrive282 2 роки тому

      That’s the whole reason the band Tool is popular I feel like

    • @Karl-cj2sn
      @Karl-cj2sn Місяць тому

      @@pw9258or just not coming tonight 😅

  • @Turtle152
    @Turtle152 3 роки тому +99

    Elton definitely understands the idea of building up to the chorus. I read a concert review where the reviewer said he could feel the audience lean forward in anticipation when he came up to the chorus of "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me."

  • @nextabe1
    @nextabe1 3 роки тому +73

    The way Tiny Dancer is used in the film Almost Famous is incredible. It's played after a row of some sort on the tour bus where everyone is sitting in tense silence. The song acts like a healing balm, eventually breaking everyone's bad mood as they all end up swaying and singing along.

    • @Weshopwizard
      @Weshopwizard 3 роки тому +3

      I think that’s my favorite scene in that movie.

    • @paulineodonnell3251
      @paulineodonnell3251 Рік тому +3

      I watched that scene just before I went to see Elton in HYde Park in the summer......it's an amazing scene in a fab film

  • @rileyhumphrey4391
    @rileyhumphrey4391 3 роки тому +762

    Elton John is such a huge inspiration for me. What a legend...

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +123

      He is the man!

    • @rockyoutcrop100
      @rockyoutcrop100 3 роки тому

      Pitty he can't write a lyric worth remembering.

    • @grxengine6188
      @grxengine6188 3 роки тому +3

      So great. When I started playing the piano at age 16 I would emulate him. He had a sound I wanted. His passing tone chords.

    • @glacierfruits5350
      @glacierfruits5350 3 роки тому +11

      @@rockyoutcrop100 yeah mate I bet you could do better

    • @DanielBoonelight
      @DanielBoonelight 3 роки тому +12

      @@rockyoutcrop100 maybe before a comment on the matter, first learn how to spell 'pity' and then learn about bernie taupin.

  • @scarletonthetube
    @scarletonthetube 2 роки тому +38

    David: **says "tiny dancer"**
    the automatic captions: Thailand answer.

  • @martingerup
    @martingerup 3 роки тому +7

    As an old (60 y.o.a.) music teacher I really like you young guys YouTubing. You do a really good job. Our students (and my self!) learn a lot. Hope some day that you shall not rely your income on commercials or product placement. Your wise words, adorable focus on the topic, high skills, your enthusiasm and commitment to education are far to big to live on premises like that. I really envy your skills when it comes to online learning. Thumbs up and love from Denmark 😀❤️

  • @airwizwoz
    @airwizwoz 3 роки тому +2298

    freddie mercury writing bohemian rhapsody:
    the rest of the band: When does the chorus come in?
    Freddie: no

    • @airwizwoz
      @airwizwoz 3 роки тому +39

      i know this is queen not elton john but were talking about chorus

    • @matpull9014
      @matpull9014 3 роки тому +81

      Oh boy just wait till you hear about Yes

    • @DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly
      @DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly 3 роки тому +26

      Bohemian rhapsody has pretty conventional structure for prog rock song

    • @lokikokesch9306
      @lokikokesch9306 3 роки тому +8

      I think innuendo could also be counted, cuz it doesn't really have a chorus

    • @DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly
      @DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly 3 роки тому +9

      @KvAT Whats odd was that it was released as a single. There are plenty of long prog rock songs, or shorter songs tied together like the back half of abbey road. But songs like Great King Rat and Black Queen were not singles

  • @indejcriptible
    @indejcriptible 3 роки тому +376

    search for "guy at a party who only knows one line of tiny dancer"
    yep, that's the name for the video

    • @videoamador7922
      @videoamador7922 3 роки тому +11

      That's the video I came from lol

    • @dwc1964
      @dwc1964 3 роки тому +4

      thanks, I just checked it out - hilarious!

    • @Stibeful
      @Stibeful 3 роки тому +1

      cringe :D

    • @toyinjr
      @toyinjr 3 роки тому

      @@videoamador7922 same

    • @joshuastreet8664
      @joshuastreet8664 3 роки тому +1

      Been there before. So embarrassing 😂😂

  • @asdfghyter
    @asdfghyter 3 роки тому +38

    I love how the popularity of the song mirrored the shape of the song itself, by initially growing very slowly, until finally it reached the status of one of his most popular songs.

  • @robindavda8967
    @robindavda8967 3 роки тому +296

    Is it the chorus yet?
    No. It's just the building of the verse, so when the chorus does come it'll be more rewarding

    • @NotGiggi
      @NotGiggi 3 роки тому +9

      will toledo

    • @jaeusbeus
      @jaeusbeus 3 роки тому +12

      AND I WILL SPEAK TO YOU IN SONG, BUT YOU CAN'T SING AS FAR AS I'M AWARE

    • @Carlos-ln8fd
      @Carlos-ln8fd 3 роки тому +5

      I would speak to you in song but you can't sing

    • @frempy4426
      @frempy4426 3 роки тому +3

      Oh shit you beat me to it lol

    • @CaptainCummerbund
      @CaptainCummerbund 3 роки тому +6

      @@jaeusbeus though everyone can sing

  • @DavidDiMuzio
    @DavidDiMuzio 3 роки тому +561

    "Indian Sunset" is structured a bit like this as well and plays out like a movie. It's a real masterpiece of songwriting and composition.

    • @never152
      @never152 3 роки тому +13

      Amazing. That whole album is cinematic. That and Tumbleweed.

    • @gsf67
      @gsf67 3 роки тому +17

      Indian sunset is an epic, and a story in its own right, it probably doesn't need a chorus.

    • @AVPROJECT1
      @AVPROJECT1 3 роки тому +2

      Definitely my EJ favourite song!

    • @ilyakogan
      @ilyakogan 3 роки тому +2

      Thank you for introducing me to it!

    • @giomathieu5975
      @giomathieu5975 3 роки тому

      Indian Sunset is Eltons “Shine On You Crazy Diamond” (bad analogy 🤷‍♂️)

  • @jaydenwhitlen1489
    @jaydenwhitlen1489 3 роки тому +287

    It’s funny you mention I Want To Hold Your Hand when She Loves You literally opens with the chorus

  • @Arttective
    @Arttective 3 роки тому +31

    This why Tiny Dancer always feels so damn epic.

  • @FaMinore
    @FaMinore 3 роки тому +45

    "It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long
    if you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit
    so they cut it down to 3:05"
    (Billy Joel - "The Entertainer") referring to "Piano man"

  • @DokiDokiDiscourse
    @DokiDokiDiscourse 3 роки тому +221

    i swear you're the only youtuber i know who gets sponsored by stuff that's actually cool

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +36

      Thanks Alex! 😁

    • @drewdavis2392
      @drewdavis2392 3 роки тому +4

      I'd actually been thinking I ought to get a footswitch for controlling my computer. I'd like it to control more than just UA-cam (any music player, Audacity, DAW software). Vidami's done integration with sites other than UA-cam, but I didn't see on their website a mention of some general configuration capability -- say, to generate keyboard input so I could map the footswitch buttons to arbitrary keyboard commands. (Maybe really smart driver software could store different setups for different programs, and swap to whichever one had keyboard focus, just so I wouldn't need a foot pedal to control my foot pedal...)
      I have run across a couple of foot pedals that are programmable USB keyboards, only with very few keys. Those might work, but there's also some value in all the integration setup Vidami's already done. Just need a way for end users to be able to set up support for all the players Vidami hasn't gotten around to yet.

    • @AstrosElectronicsLab
      @AstrosElectronicsLab 3 роки тому +2

      Yeah, and not by sodding Squarespace...

  • @kelprofitt
    @kelprofitt 3 роки тому +208

    ‘Don’t Let the Sun Go Down on Me’ is another Elton song with a late chorus 🎵🎶

    • @quicktastic
      @quicktastic 3 роки тому +18

      Indeed. Well worth the wait. IMHO that is Elton and Bernie's masterpiece. Such drama both lyrically and musically.

    • @willritter4076
      @willritter4076 3 роки тому +4

      I wouldn't say that the choruses are late, i would just say that the verses are long & robust...

    • @frogindeed
      @frogindeed 3 роки тому +2

      I immediately thought of that one too but it's a puny 2:03 to the chorus.

  • @oops3266
    @oops3266 3 роки тому +189

    Fast Car by Tracy Chapman goes through 3 verses before a chorus. Another fantastic song.

    • @NewFalconerRecords
      @NewFalconerRecords 3 роки тому +20

      Great example. And the great thing about that song is both the hook of the acoustic guitar part and the repeated "You got a fast car..." motif. It's a way catchy song even before the chorus come in.

    • @davisshelfer6559
      @davisshelfer6559 3 роки тому +3

      One of my favorite songs

    • @kingzippythethird
      @kingzippythethird 3 роки тому +10

      And REM's Losing my Religion doesn't have a chorus and is a GREAT song....

    • @NewFalconerRecords
      @NewFalconerRecords 3 роки тому +7

      @@kingzippythethird Funny you should mention that, 'cos I remember seeing the video to 'Losing My Religion' when it first came out and thinking:"what a shame... R.E.M. were just starting to build some momentum and now they release this meandering track with no hooks, no chorus, no nothing." The second time I heard it, I thought -- "okay this song does have something going for it after all. It's not bad". By the third time I heard it, I got it, and I was impressed by their boldness to release such an intelligent single that didn't pander to convention. Now, of course, I love the track.

    • @florimond1816
      @florimond1816 3 роки тому +2

      @@kingzippythethird isn’t the ‘That’s me in the corner’ part the chorus?

  • @MyXAHOB
    @MyXAHOB 3 роки тому +187

    "Somebody that i used to know" has also the same trick

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +32

      Good shout!

    • @billkeithchannel
      @billkeithchannel 3 роки тому +5

      Doesn't _Heart's A Mess_ also wait a long time to get to the chorus? I love that song/video, even more than _Used To Know._

    • @iletyoucallmestevesy
      @iletyoucallmestevesy 3 роки тому +7

      @@billkeithchannel I'd love to see some Gotye analysis from Mr Bennet. Gotye was a one hit wonder, but his body of work is so varied and interesting to me

    • @the_minimalistic_adventure
      @the_minimalistic_adventure 3 роки тому +2

      @@iletyoucallmestevesy Yeah, it's sad how Gotye faded off. The guy actually has some really good music.

    • @mimkyodar
      @mimkyodar 2 роки тому

      @@iletyoucallmestevesy He was only a 1HW outside of Australia. Here he had a solid career both as Gotye and outside of that project.

  • @MarkWadsworthYPP
    @MarkWadsworthYPP 3 роки тому +35

    Good old Taupin and John. They did it, and spent the rest of their lives explaining how they did it. Song writing Gods.

  • @akbar41
    @akbar41 3 роки тому +19

    A side-effect of watching an insightful video like this is gaining a new respect for a song. Thanks!

  • @leonide8683
    @leonide8683 3 роки тому +171

    "Good songs get to the chorus in the first minute"
    Pink Floyd: *Hold my Crazy Diamond*

    • @gemfyre855
      @gemfyre855 3 роки тому +14

      Oh god I remember the first time I heard Shine On You Crazy Diamond and I was like "What?"

    • @cha6328
      @cha6328 3 роки тому +10

      @@gemfyre855 echoes too

    • @konstant_ly
      @konstant_ly 3 роки тому +8

      Pink Floyd and Yes haven't taken a beer in months, since they still haven't gotten to the chorus

    • @joelcheng813
      @joelcheng813 3 роки тому

      brick in the wall pt. 2

    • @michaelcantu6071
      @michaelcantu6071 2 роки тому +2

      Foreplay by Boston doesn’t get to the Chorus until 3:30 in

  • @pritush
    @pritush 3 роки тому +37

    This breakdown was too good. Now I wondered why I loved this song so much in-spite having no technical knowledge on music 👏

  • @forestcochran4196
    @forestcochran4196 3 роки тому +9

    I think the tempo change is a really big element that a lot of people these days wouldn't feel comfortable with. I've never, ever thought about how this song has so many tempo changes because if your musicians are good and it's used in a purposeful manner, it totally works. Ditch the grid! Let it feel groovy!

  • @BenSticks3
    @BenSticks3 3 роки тому +198

    Doesn’t “don’t stop believing” have an unusually late occurring chorus too? I can’t quite remember but that sounded familiar

    • @pterafirma
      @pterafirma 3 роки тому +16

      Came here to say that.

    • @robgronotte1
      @robgronotte1 3 роки тому +27

      It doesn't exactly have a chorus at all. The part where the title is sung at the end of the song isn't significantly different than the rest of the song.

    • @johngregor6743
      @johngregor6743 3 роки тому +28

      Yup, chorus comes in at 3 minutes 22 seconds. Rick Beato did a "What makes this song great" about it.

    • @rattyeely
      @rattyeely 3 роки тому +8

      @A B What if they sang "Strangers waiting
      Up and down the boulevard
      Their shadows searching in the night
      Streetlights, people
      Living just to find emotion
      Hiding somewhere in the night"?

    • @KennethWestervelt
      @KennethWestervelt 3 роки тому +5

      No, just a late title drop. The title drop is not the chorus.

  • @guille7545
    @guille7545 3 роки тому +36

    What an interesting way of making a song! He is such a great composer.

  • @mahanaghaei1
    @mahanaghaei1 3 роки тому +30

    Pleaaaaaase make more Elton John videos, He has an entire universe full of songs for us to discover, The way he performs and writes songs, So much to learn and cherish, He is a true master!

  • @StormyDay
    @StormyDay 3 роки тому +6

    It’s really more of classical piece in nature, almost like a mini suite. Truly brilliant and very emotional, very visual, very sentimental. A masterpiece..

  • @sfilipee
    @sfilipee 3 роки тому +6

    David, please do more Elton John videos. His chord progressions were always so good and so... Elton! Even lesser known classics like Little Jeanie, that outro is out of this world.

  • @dawidzapotoczny1920
    @dawidzapotoczny1920 3 роки тому +3

    More Elton videos please! 💚💙

  • @reginaldperiwinkle
    @reginaldperiwinkle 3 роки тому +20

    Another interesting video. How about a suggestion for a follow up -- Uncle Albert / Admiral Halsey (by You-Know-Who) doesn't get to its chorus until 2:32. And Band on the Run takes until 2:37 to get to its chorus. Both of these songs were US Billboard #1s. Like Tiny Dancer, the Macca songs also have cinematic qualities and gradually pick up as they go.

  • @4Pssf2w
    @4Pssf2w 3 роки тому +39

    I want to do what you do, man, you give these pieces the analysis they deserve.

  • @VOYAGEUR-YT
    @VOYAGEUR-YT 3 роки тому +39

    I found Elton John's greatest hits in my dad's old records and I wondered why Tiny Dancer wasn't on there since it was released shortly after Tiny Dancer was out. Makes sense now considering it maybe wasn't considered as much of a hit as we think of it today.

    • @sschmidtevalue
      @sschmidtevalue 3 роки тому +2

      As someone who was around in the 70's, I can say that Tiny Dancer got plenty of airplay. However, I'm not sure what it did sales-wise. Elton also changed labels in the 70's and song rights for the greatest hits release may have been affected.

    • @NewFalconerRecords
      @NewFalconerRecords 3 роки тому +2

      The 2000 film Almost Famous put the song back on the map.

    • @lynnturman8157
      @lynnturman8157 3 роки тому +4

      It wasn't a hit when it came out. Fans familiar with him knew it was a great song but I don't think it really got any airplay on the radio in the 70s--especially compared to many of his other songs. I think when it became more well known is when Cameron Crowe used it in Almost Famous. The fact that it's more well-known now than when it first came out is actually pretty typical of a lot of classic rock, believe it or not.

    • @JitaPopular
      @JitaPopular 3 роки тому +5

      No - this is why "This song ripened into one of Elton John's classics, but it didn't even crack the Top 40 when it was released, peaking at #41 in America in 1972. In the UK and most other territories, it wasn't released as a single."
      www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/tiny-dancer

  • @Clarinetboy82
    @Clarinetboy82 3 роки тому +3

    The beautiful thing about "Tiny Dancer" is before the chorus, Elton is painting this beautiful picture in our minds. I'll be honest when I'm listening, I don't even realize that 2.5 minutes has gone by when it gets to the chorus. By that time I have this really beautiful picture in my mind and then the chorus is kind of like the cherry on top of an ice cream sundae. It's a quite lovely song. Beautiful lyrics, and Elton really accentuates that with the way he structured it. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed learning more of how the song works so well musically.

  • @Rubrickety
    @Rubrickety 3 роки тому +50

    You have done a great service in revealing to me that that lyric is “pirate smile”. I always wondered what the hell “Paris mile” had to do with anything. 😂

    • @richarddoan9172
      @richarddoan9172 3 роки тому +7

      Does "pirate smile" really make more sense?

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +14

      @@richarddoan9172 "Pirate Smile" sounds like a mischievous, knowing smile... a great lyric!

    • @nrggvrn5576
      @nrggvrn5576 3 роки тому

      No,
      No,
      No,
      It will always be 'pirate smile' to me

    • @Cherryoak
      @Cherryoak 3 роки тому +2

      @@DavidBennettPiano My favourite Cyndi Lauper song 'Sally's Pigeon's' also has the lyric 'pirate smile'. For all those time when 'roughish smile' just sounds clumsy :D

    • @rattyeely
      @rattyeely 3 роки тому

      I still don't know what pirate smile means

  • @justintroyka8855
    @justintroyka8855 3 роки тому +56

    I think your remarks about the typical structure of pop songs don't apply (at least not so universally) until the 80s or 90s. For one thing, before the disco era, the typical length of a single would be more on the scale of 2-3 minutes rather than 3-4 minutes. Especially in the mid-60s and earlier, 3 minutes would actually be pretty long for a single. Take a look at the run times of the songs the Beatles released as singles - the first one to be 3 minutes or longer is "Ticket to Ride" in 1965, if I recall.
    Also, I think in the 1960s and 1970s another widespread structure for a pop song would be something like
    Verse/Chorus - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus - Bridge - Verse/Chorus,
    where the verse can end with a short "hook" rather than a full-fledged chorus section. The prototypical example of this is "I Want to Hold Your Hand", and many many songs from the 1960s and 1970s have some variation of this structure. The thing to notice is that this form features short, dramatic sections that occur multiple times. Rather than having a "pre-chorus" section that ramps up intensity from the verse to the chorus, the Verse/Chorus section can function as a single unit that propels us all the way through from start to finish, with a bridge section intervening once or twice to give us relief from the high energy and take us in a new direction. Now that I think about it, this structure seems like an extended version of the older AABA form that you mention in the video; instead of just AABA, it's AABABA.
    I love thinking about the structure of pop songs, so thank you so much for making this video!

    • @williamgeorgefraser
      @williamgeorgefraser 3 роки тому +4

      "House Of The Rising Sun" by the Animals was considered abnormal because it lasted more than 4 minutes.

    • @rattyeely
      @rattyeely 3 роки тому

      Yeah, 2 minutes used to be a more standard pop song length, and most songs were composed of A and B section, with the A section serving as the verse and the B section resembling a bridge

    • @matijanarobe9541
      @matijanarobe9541 3 роки тому +4

      Thank you for pointing this out. I've been noticing this myself, with Beatle songs specifically. I think it's one of the reasons I enjoy listening to them. It comes off as refreshing to my ears, since the modern verse-prechorus-chorus form really builds the tension up until the chorus and after it's over, the momentum disappears and the build up has to start all over -- it's a bit tiring really. With some Beatle songs it's just non stop good material with a linear flow. Just my 2 cents

    • @skyblazeeterno
      @skyblazeeterno 3 роки тому

      Song length was mainly down to recordign limitations on vinyl

    • @jacobmillen751
      @jacobmillen751 3 роки тому +1

      Yeah seems true for a lot of the 60s. I wouldnt say 70s songs really have that structure though, thats the decade when pop songs got a lot longer i think

  • @TheTimTraveller
    @TheTimTraveller 3 роки тому +554

    This immediately made me think of Where The Streets Have No Name, which takes even longer - first chorus is at 2:48. Bono doesn't even come in with the first verse until 1:47!
    And the record still sold pretty well from what I remember...
    ua-cam.com/video/3FsrPEUt2Dg/v-deo.html

    • @kaicanyonellis
      @kaicanyonellis 3 роки тому +56

      Great example, though I'd argue the looooooooong intro of just a slowly swelling organ on Streets clouds the question of when the song itself begins

    • @Carlos-ln8fd
      @Carlos-ln8fd 3 роки тому +14

      It's so satisfying when it actually gets there

    • @PlanetoftheDeaf
      @PlanetoftheDeaf 3 роки тому +9

      Long intros can just be skipped by radio stations though...

    • @computerfan1079
      @computerfan1079 3 роки тому +7

      Didn't expect you here, hi!

    • @GVike
      @GVike 3 роки тому +3

      Not really pop but Joy Division took their sweet time in "No Love Lost" and "Dead Souls"... lyrics enter late but then Ian Curtis delivers some really sick shxt.

  • @Turtle152
    @Turtle152 3 роки тому +14

    One of the most interesting song structures I've ever heard is Springsteen's "Thunder Road." It spends its whole length zigzagging back and forth between the same two chord progressions. One part has a big buildup and is the only part where he sings the song's title, so it feels like the chorus, but it doesn't meet the strict definition, since it only occurs once.

    • @natjohnw
      @natjohnw 3 роки тому +1

      Always loved Thunder Road for this reason! Super daring structure that only works because the story matches it perfectly

    • @erinlyndalmartin9225
      @erinlyndalmartin9225 Рік тому

      One of my favorites and I never noticed that he only sings the title once

    • @erinlyndalmartin9225
      @erinlyndalmartin9225 Рік тому

      Perfect melding of form and content

  • @thegamingpigeon3216
    @thegamingpigeon3216 3 роки тому +3

    It's funny, I'm an Elton John fan. I liked Tiny Dancer but it was never one of my favorites. That was until October 19th 2019 when I was fortunate enough to see him live at the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee on his farewell tour. I was waiting for Your Song, like everyone else and I knew it was coming at the end of the show. But 20 minutes or so into the show, he played Tiny Dancer. I don't know how to put it other than there was something magical about it, seeing the video playing on the screen and hearing it live. I fell in love with that song that night.

  • @bigdeliciousband
    @bigdeliciousband 3 роки тому +4

    excellent analysis. please keep them coming

  • @scottt9382
    @scottt9382 3 роки тому +5

    10:51 I wonder how much of the bump in sales was due to it being at the best moment in Almost Famous a couple years earlier...

  • @thelatinist5024
    @thelatinist5024 2 роки тому

    That’s the way to do a UA-cam ad. You made it relevant, showed it in action, and turned it into a teachable moment. It’s the kind of ad that makes me want to buy the cool but of kit even though I don’t really have a use for it!

  • @CarlosRoberto-os9bs
    @CarlosRoberto-os9bs 3 роки тому +2

    Wonderful song. Thank you !!

  • @lorenzolevy4708
    @lorenzolevy4708 3 роки тому +4

    Off the top of my head, the Beatles used a similar delay of the chorus in songs like Come Together, Baby You're A Rich Man, or Got to Get You Into My Life.

  • @livb6945
    @livb6945 3 роки тому +12

    Love Elton. Genius musician. And you, my friend, has a truly worthwhile UA-cam channel!! Thank you

  • @wendy4324
    @wendy4324 3 роки тому +2

    I remember being impatient for the chorus because I loved it so much. I learned to appreciate the verses, and realized the long wait was what makes the chorus so satisfying and monumental.

  • @ihatespam2
    @ihatespam2 3 роки тому +1

    The build in Don’t Let the Sun Go Down is awesome and then the pay off is great.

  • @thoughtfulpug1333
    @thoughtfulpug1333 3 роки тому +7

    I remember when my dad got me my first ipod, the first thing downloaded onto it (aside from Justin Beiber's first album...that was not my choice, it was just there), was the album Madman Across the Water. I listened to that and his Greatest Hits trilogy on repeat for what seems like my entire childhood...when i probably got my first Iphone like 2 years later.

  • @JamoboBorg
    @JamoboBorg 3 роки тому +41

    Journey's Don't Stop Believin' is another famous one. It doensn't actually get to the chorus until 3.21! But unlike Tiny Dancer, the song fades out there and doesn't continue:
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Stop_Believin%27#Song_structure_and_references

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +25

      Interesting! I guess it depends on what you call "the chorus" as, in Journey's case, the "verse" and "chorus" are the same thing really.

    • @JiveDadson
      @JiveDadson 3 роки тому +4

      I thought it stopped abruptly when the listener gets shot in the head.

  • @franciscodiniz4092
    @franciscodiniz4092 3 роки тому +9

    Excellent analysis on the Tiny Dancer structure. Elton is a legend in the music story !

    • @rman52
      @rman52 3 роки тому +1

      Don't you mean Taupin is a legend in the story telling? He wrote the stories.

    • @franciscodiniz4092
      @franciscodiniz4092 3 роки тому

      @@rman52 Yes, he' s a legend too !

  • @malacite1
    @malacite1 3 роки тому +3

    One of my favourite songs of his.
    And this is one of the reasons.
    The fact it steadily and beautifully builds, and then explodes into the chorus.

  • @zetizahara
    @zetizahara 3 роки тому +6

    Great video. Tiny Dancer is a masterpiece and Elton sounds amazing singing it off the cuff in that short clip where he discussed the structure. What a talent.

  • @lucypreece7581
    @lucypreece7581 3 роки тому +3

    This is legit my fave ever Elton John song

  • @peterwoods35
    @peterwoods35 3 роки тому +2

    Brilliant analysis, as usual.

  • @jarlardo
    @jarlardo 3 роки тому +2

    class as always! thanks David :)

  • @CarlosMartinez-gr1rp
    @CarlosMartinez-gr1rp 3 роки тому +5

    Fantastic insights, thank you very much. I love songs that choose to build tension delaying the chorus.

  • @madhatter2012
    @madhatter2012 3 роки тому +3

    Just discovered your channel recently... love it! Keep up the great work!

  • @MrRoadmaster7
    @MrRoadmaster7 3 роки тому +2

    Just ordered my Vidami....thanks for the discount David, and the wonderful breakdown of this beautiful song!

  • @ryadachaibou8098
    @ryadachaibou8098 3 роки тому +2

    I was literally wondering how such an iconic chorus comes so late the other day when listening to Tiny Dancer. I love the topics you choose.

  • @charleselmore4707
    @charleselmore4707 3 роки тому +3

    Really excellent breakdown, sir. I've never thought about the structure of Tiny Dancer. It was...illuminating.

  • @siljesanders1
    @siljesanders1 3 роки тому +4

    love your channel and your videos, always super educational and entertaining! keep up the great work

  • @davidhalldurham
    @davidhalldurham 3 роки тому +2

    Excellent video, David. You deserve twice the subscribers you have now. Every video is interesting and I always learns something.

  • @JamieAndersonMusic
    @JamieAndersonMusic 3 роки тому

    The words also help keep the listener's attention. The narrative is vivid and the central character, unique.

  • @drjazz7278
    @drjazz7278 3 роки тому +3

    Top work as always. Love going through well transcribed songbooks and learning about song structure.

  • @BrankoVT
    @BrankoVT 3 роки тому +10

    In power metal band Sabaton's Cliffs of Gallipoli has the first chorus at 1:25, Panzerkampf at 1:32, The Price of a Mile starts its chorus at 1:36, The Final Solution has the chorus starting at 1:52, Rise of Evil starts its first verse at 1:29 and the first chorus at 2:09. It's not that long, but it's twice or three times what you'd expect. This got me thinking; "Is this the band's style or the genre?"
    Powerwolf's Incense and Iron has its first chorus at 1:24, Dragonforce's Through the Fire and the Flames starts the chorus at 1:36.
    Then I went to look at the broader genre and AC/DC's Thunderstruck has its first chorus at 1:51, Metallica's For Whom the Bell Tolls starts its first verse at 2:06 and the chorus starts at 2:38 and Iron Maiden's Run to the Hills has its first chorus at 1:10.
    For some reason, metal, though still being aimed at broad audiences, has their choruses way later then pop songs.

    • @casparvoncampenhausen5249
      @casparvoncampenhausen5249 3 роки тому +1

      Interesting
      And Kudos for ch checking a of that

    • @Kylora2112
      @Kylora2112 3 роки тому +4

      Metal has a lot of extended intros, though. I wouldn't really compare the construction of a metal song with those of more strictly "pop" songs. Like, Run To The Hills's first verse is an extended intro section that has almost nothing in common with the rest of the song, other than it being in Dm (and it makes sense, since the intro is from the PoV of the Native Americans, while the rest of the song is from the PoV of the settlers). Other songs, like Megadeth's Peace Sells, don't even *have* a true chorus.

    • @richarddoan9172
      @richarddoan9172 3 роки тому +1

      Different radio format, if it's played on radio at all. Classic rock stations, for example, play lots of long songs.

    • @Smonserratm
      @Smonserratm 3 роки тому

      I think that's because it's not unusual for a metal song to have 1/2 to 1 minute intros.

  • @HolographicSweater
    @HolographicSweater 2 роки тому

    the brilliant enigmatic imagery of the lyrics keeps you on the ride

  • @OlafurArons
    @OlafurArons 3 роки тому +1

    It's honestly just part of the musical genius we see so rarely utilized for "modern" pop music.
    Pretty much anyone can spit out at least one top 40 hit in their lifetime.
    But who can make a song that builds up for (in musical terms) ages before hitting the chorus?
    Exactly.

  • @lucyinthesky9
    @lucyinthesky9 3 роки тому +5

    Loved this video! What an amazing song.
    Another song that does something similar is "Let the sunshine in" from the musical Hair. It doesn't get to the chorus ("Let the sun shine, let the sun shine in, the su-un shine in") until 3 minutes in... and then it repeats the chorus for another 3 minutes! I always loved that : the song is a kind of very progressive crescendo and then it explodes when the chorus arrives.

    • @mikey6482
      @mikey6482 3 роки тому +1

      Technically that is because the early half of the song is a different song called the "Flesh Failures".

  • @PlanetoftheDeaf
    @PlanetoftheDeaf 3 роки тому +8

    I don't need it, but that Vidami pedal is a cool bit of kit!

  • @deckenneth
    @deckenneth 2 роки тому

    One key thing to note here is that Tiny Dancer never was released as a single in the UK and barely a mention in the US. It was overwhelmingly an album cut, and got played mostly on AOR stations - and didn't really make its way onto pop radio until after its appearance in the film 'Almost Famous'.

  • @JemmyJoeAGoGo
    @JemmyJoeAGoGo 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you for making a music theory video instead of just a list video.

  • @luchilenium
    @luchilenium 3 роки тому +3

    This is similar to why I love the Gotye song "Heart's a Mess".
    The full version of the song takes 2:50 to play through two verses and a couple musical interludes before finally paying off with three choruses in a row, back to back. And then the song ends. So interesting structurally.
    The radio edit (and music video version) cut the first of the three choruses to shorten the song, but can't really stop the length of that first half.

  • @xilencered7788
    @xilencered7788 3 роки тому +3

    Never knew that the tempo slowed down, I always thought it was just me. Like an illusion caused by the key change.

  • @snickpickle
    @snickpickle 3 роки тому +2

    I love this song because Elton's piano playing mesmerizes me. That, and the string accompaniment coming in at just the right time. Your observations are most certainly correct, of course, but the performance carries the day so much! Just epic. And fascinating to listen to over and over again, largely due to the very things you mention in this video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the vintage footage.

  • @linalangemark2652
    @linalangemark2652 3 роки тому +2

    Crazy, I've just gotten into Elton John, and have spent the past few days with this song stuck on my mind...

  • @DaantJ009
    @DaantJ009 3 роки тому +7

    I really enjoy your videos. Makes my love for these songs even greater :) Keep it up!

  • @TrainDriver186
    @TrainDriver186 3 роки тому +7

    7:50 Sounds like Elton almost muffed the lyric, starting "with" and finishing "in".
    "And now she's w'in me..."

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +5

      Yeah, I think he went to sing “now she’s WITH me” and bailed at the last second!

  • @RaysGuide
    @RaysGuide 3 роки тому

    Something missing in your discussion is in the 70's the 45 single was still a significant format that had trouble holding more than 5 minutes and that Radio stations had built their 'clocks' around the length of typical 45 singles. So even the 'radio edit' of the song was too long for most radio stations' formats.

  • @KarlieStarrSings
    @KarlieStarrSings 3 роки тому

    Reminds me of "Don't Stop Believing" except you don't get to THAT chorus til the end of the song but by the time you get there you're already rockin at the edge of your seat it doesn't even phase you

  • @casparvoncampenhausen5249
    @casparvoncampenhausen5249 3 роки тому +5

    You've got a great voice for this!

  • @GlobalMiles
    @GlobalMiles 3 роки тому +4

    Brilliant break-down and insights. Also really like how you incorporated the product demo and classy/sincere appreciation to your supporters. Big respect, you’re one of the best out there David.

  • @ipsurvivor
    @ipsurvivor 3 роки тому +2

    Brilliant analysis...

  • @scarcam
    @scarcam 3 роки тому +1

    Love the way Elton works Bernie's lyrics into his melodies..Goodbye yellow brick road, Crocodile rock, so unorthodox, amazing!

  • @bikershark9
    @bikershark9 3 роки тому +13

    I love Elton, love this song, and this video was great.
    I'm still completely unable to not hear "Tony Danza" bc my dad sang it like that one time twenty years ago.

    • @reuellucas7187
      @reuellucas7187 3 роки тому +1

      Phoebe got to him apparently lol 😂.

  • @DerUbermonke
    @DerUbermonke 3 роки тому +5

    Epic

    • @DavidBennettPiano
      @DavidBennettPiano  3 роки тому +3

      Cheers!

    • @DerUbermonke
      @DerUbermonke 3 роки тому

      i have literally no recollection making this comment whatsoever LMAO. thanks for the reply

  • @rish1459
    @rish1459 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you for this analysis on a very endearing song from my younger days!

  • @gigi123ification
    @gigi123ification Рік тому

    I still remember how that song captured me when it came out... such a wonderful piece!

  • @bosoerjadi2838
    @bosoerjadi2838 3 роки тому +3

    When even the Vidami Pedal demonstration keeps you watching.

  • @vamplamp6597
    @vamplamp6597 3 роки тому +19

    great job on the vids, your so talented and your the reason I am learning piano!!! Thank you so much David!

  • @francissreckofabian01
    @francissreckofabian01 3 роки тому +1

    One of my favourite Elton tracks (there are quite a few).

  • @lilschlagen
    @lilschlagen 2 роки тому

    Sweet Dreams, TN doesn't really have a chorus but it has a 2 and a half minute ostinato under verse lyrics, and occasional string flourishes, that transitions into a half a minute(ish) bridge until the payoff arrives for the final minute as an instrumental climax and eventual outro. One of the coolest song structures I've ever heard.

  • @vibesofthenow
    @vibesofthenow 3 роки тому +3

    Great video! Very interesting!!

  • @MePeterNicholls
    @MePeterNicholls 3 роки тому +3

    The chorus wouldn’t be so releasing with out the holding back, it’s the anticipation and build up and that climax of delay gratification.

  • @ana.cosmic.humanity
    @ana.cosmic.humanity 3 роки тому +1

    Absolutely love your videos and oh my.. Tiny Dancer! What an experience! As mentioned below, the scene in Almost Famous comes to mind

  • @bassistdc
    @bassistdc 3 роки тому +2

    Very interesting stuff!