GamerGate: What's REALLY Going On?
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- What is GamerGate? How did it get started? Who is involved? UA-cam Nation explores this and more with help from Ashly Burch.
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While I appreciate the calm tones I feel that this video does not give an accurate assessment of the situation and furthermore continues to push a harmful narrative that really doesn't seem to have too much basis in reality.
So it's important to really know the history behind it. The catalyst was a long post by an ex of an indie developer called Zoe Quinn. In this post, it alleged a conflict of interest between a Kotaku journalist and the developer. [UPDATE: I WAS MISINFORMED. IN HIS POST, ZOES EX DID NOT IN FACT CLAIM THAT GRAYSON HAD REVIEWED HER GAME POSITIVELY. THIS CLAIM APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MANUFACTURED SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE AND REPEATED ENOUGH TIMES THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE IT, HOWEVER AFTER READING THE SOURCE MATERIAL AND ARCHIVED TO ENSURE IT WASN'T EDITED AFTERWARDS, I FOUND NO MENTION OF THIS AT ALL] This information turned out to be inaccurate to a point, it alleged that the journalist (Nathan Grayson) had written a positive review of the game while in a romantic relationship with the developer. This is not true, however what is true is that Grayson wrote an article using Quinn as a source on March 31st of this year, regarding a game jam, in which he promoted her game. In "early April", the two began a romantic relationship. Editor in Chief at Kotaku Stephen Totilo claims he does not see a problem with this, since the romantic relationship began after the article was written, however many people including myself disagree, since it is unlikely that the relationship suddenly sprang out of nowhere and that a friendship was in place prior to this. I and many supporting Gamergate believe this should have been disclosed or that Grayson should have recused himself from writing this article. Kotaku disagrees. However, while this and many other examples of corruption and nepotism are core to what keeps Gamergate moving along, it wasn't even called Gamergate back then, it was called Quinnspiracy or later, Burgers and fries. These two names were abandoned because people wanted to disassociate with Zoe Quinn and any trolling and harassment that had gone on and focus on ethical issues. After 10+ articles were released in the course of one day, claiming "gamers are dead" and using hurtful and incendiary language to condemn the identity of many innocent people, #Gamergate exploded, after the term was coined by actor Adam Baldwin. It was a consumer backlash against anti-consumer articles. Many people felt angry and alienated by them and in my opinion rightfully so.
In the course of this, Anita Sarkeesian released her latest video and inserted herself into the discussion. She published alleged death threats from an anonymous internet troll and then decided to go on the offensive, repeatedly associating these threats with the entirity of those involved with Gamergate and getting directly involved in the hashtag by posting constantly negative attacks. She has nothing to do with journalistic ethics, however she inserted herself into the discussion. I personally have no doubt that she received these threats, death-threats are unfortunately very common online but I do doubt their credibility and who exactly sent them. We simply do not know. The problem with a hashtag is that there are no entry requirements. Anyone can post and claim to be associated with the movement, however it is leaderless and the actions of one person being tied to the entire movement seem fairly illogical and require some serious use of the guilt by association fallacy. In response to a one-sided narrative by the media, proclaiming all those involved to be misogynist, disgusting white male sexists, groups of those claiming to be part of Gamergate raised money for charity, hunted down and reported harassment efforts and even tracked down someone who had been sending Sarkeesian death-threats. Unfortunately Sarkeesian has refused to take this information and use it to press charges for some reason.
The idea that in order to discuss journalistic ethics you must disassociate yourself from harassment is a frustrating one. These people already tried that multiple times. They raised over $70,000 for a campaign by the Fine Young Capitalists to help women make videogames. Critics called it "weaponised charity". They raised money for anti-bullying causes after Gawker employee Sam Biddle, tweeted to his tens of thousands of followers that he endorsed the bullying of nerds. They changed hashtags twice to disassociate from harassment but what good does that do when the entire media is against them? Ashly, you say that we cannot talk about ethics until we stop harassing people. I say, we cannot talk about ethics because you won't stop talking about us allegedly harassing people. What is the first law of the internet? DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. By pushing this harassment narrative, you are giving these awful people victory and marginalizing the moderate majority who do want a serious conversation to happen about journalistic ethics. I would strongly urge you to come to the table and discuss ethical issues, freeze out those who would harass others, just as popular Gamergate forums like Kotakuinaction on Reddit have been doing for months. This industry has problems that need addressing but this is not the way to go about it. The longer the harassment narrative goes on, the worse this gets, the more frustrated alienated gamers of all races, genders, sexual orientations and creeds involved in this to improve their hobby and passion become.
Do we honestly believe this is an organized effort to drive women out of the industry? If that were true, why on earth would the targets be a controversial UA-cam critic and two practically unknown indie developers? Wouldn't people be trying to drive out women of note in the industry who work at major studios and have real influence over the direction of games? If this is a harassment campaign aimed at driving women out of gaming, it is the single most unsuccessful one in the history of mankind.
Indeed, there is far more to this. Harassment has happened, I will not deny that, but it is not the responsibility of the moderate majority to apologise for the behavior of trolls. It is indeed partly the responsibility of the media for encouraging said trolls and rewarding their behavior.
Yes, we want to talk about ethics. There are plenty of examples that need resolving. This all started with Nathan Graysons relationship, Kotaku believes he did nothing wrong, some of us disagree. Patricia Hernandez of Kotaku wrote glowing articles about developers she was close friends with and in one case, even lived with as a roommate. No apologies were given, disclosure was given retroactively. Said journalist also wrote an article accusing a card game developer (nothing to do with videogames btw) of rape and after he defended himself, complained that he hadnt done enough to start a positive conversation about "rape culture". This is a man who had a potentially life-destroying allegation held over his head and Kotaku had no issue writing about it and presuming his guilt. Danielle of Polygon gave Gone Home, a game which her friend was the sound designer of, a 10/10 perfect score, she did not disclose her relationship with said person. Destructoid reviewed Borderlands 2 for which the brother of Ashley Burch was a writer and also an ex-staff member of Destructoid. This was only disclosed much later when they fell under scrutiny, they had not thought to disclose it prior. A group called GamejournoPros with a large number of "competiting" journalists allegedly colluded to blacklist a journalist called Alistair Pinsof and also discussed sending letters of support and gifts to Zoe Quinn, clearly not realising the wall that should exist between subject and journalist. Indeed one of them even referred to her as a colleague. The release of so many articles proclaiming gamers dead on the same day raised questions of collusion that have yet to be answered.
However, if you need real proof that this is about ethics, you need only look at the following. The Escapist, Polygon and Kotaku all revised their ethics policies soon after this began in direct response to it. IGN and various UA-camrs have either published ethics codes or intend to do so. If this wasn't about ethics, why would you do that?
I call on everyone to reject harassment in all its forms, but simultaneously realise that the few do not represent the many. Do not engage in guilt by association and instead treat people as people, not some labeled box of sub-humans online for you to attack and dismiss. Gamers are very much alive and they are more diverse than ever. It disturbs me greatly that anyone would claim otherwise or even worse, attack their identity. Gamers deserve better media, everyone deserves better media. Let's discuss how to make that happen and let's not indulge the whims of trolls and bigots.
thank you for your long article, i will add you to my read later readlist, or not
but interesting stuff
Thank you for some REAL discussion on this issue. It's so hard to find!
A very well articulated post. Thank you for promoting a civilised discussion, and providing me with a better understanding than the waffling in the associated wiki page.
I found this bit rather pertinent:
_"Indeed, there is far more to this. Harassment has happened, I will not deny that, but it is not the responsibility of the moderate majority to apologise for the behavior of trolls. It is indeed partly the responsibility of the media for encouraging said trolls and rewarding their behavior. "_
Christopher Bull It reminded me of something Charlie Brooker once said in regards to media coverage of mass shootings. He brought on a psychologist that believed strongly the media coverage of these events causes more of them. I feel this is a similar situation. Trolls are out to provoke reactions. MSNBC coverage is beyond their wildest dreams and games media let that happen. Strange bedfellows, the mainstream media has long been a thorn in the side of the industry and games media have been the guys who fought back against their allegations. Now they're in lockstep and that is disturbing.
Its nice to see some credible people finally talking about this. From what I can see, the anti-gamergate people are arguing against a point that does not exist. Gamers aren't attacking women, a small number of trolls are.
I have yet to see anyone say "i'm with gamergate, lets attack this person", or even try to defend the attacks. What I am seeing, is a lot of people getting harassed and then assuming that gamers are the ones doing the harassment because it benefits them.
This is an amateurish attempt to craft a narrative, just so you know. Ethics? Journalists? No, you guys talk about Quinn then ask each other why you're not talking about ethics or journalists. You tell us, why aren't you talking about the journalists?
MAH BOI! REAL JOURNALISM IS WHAT ALL TRUE GAMERS STRIVE FOR!
Ya right! ... Once again the people who are discussing GamerGate are the ones who know nothing about #GamerGate. How is that people only show one side of the argument, and expect to be taken seriously ??
Well, I guess they want to explain it the way they like it. Kind of like some folks want to believe that Santa will fly through the air with reindeers and drop them a new phone for them to spend all their anti-social lives on.
Didn't you know? Every member of gamergate has a pentagram in front of which he kneels on a nightly basis while repeating the mantra "I hate all women, I love to harass women, I hate all women." Now you all know the troof
souldry I was unaware of that. I had thought that it simply was a group of people who correctly or not believed that there was a lack of ethic in gaming and were discussing it via a hashtag that has unfortunate connotations due to harassment that has taken place.
I'm not angry. I'm just upset that people honestly cannot research and question things. Question everything. Do not listen and believe.
By that rational... you're never going to end up believing anything.
stevetornowski Maybe if you're stupid and don't retain information you sought out yourself.
Sorry you have to be fed your information, you're what's called a "useful idiot".
stevetornowski By "listen and believe", I meant that the individual wouldn't question anything. Question and come up with your own solution. Compare it with others' opinions. Just don't blindly follow.
Listen, sure, but do not necessarily believe.
stevetornowski
Rather be a athesist then ja?
Cmon why can't any media that covers this, interview both sides of the argument, they just go with one side, and demonize the whole other side based on the actions of very few people. How about people make the games they want instead of trying to force people not to make things you don't like. Why not make your own company and make games. It's the free market and art is about freedom of expression.
Similarly, couldn't you say "Why not make your own gaming news website instead of criticizing Kotaku and others?"
Earnest Pettie
Yup why not
I wish I was making this up, but people who try to ask both sides, are shunned and denounced by Anti-GG as rape apologists and the sort. Ask David Pakkman
Tony Harrison That makes it sound like this is more about revenge than anything else. Tit for tat.
Earnest Pettie No, it's a little something called a "break of trust"
I wonder how long until the comments are disabled for "harassment".
Dude, the people doing the actual bullying, and actually publicly calling for more bullying, are the anti-gamergate people. Stop spreading lies.
Elver Loho Sarkeesian is forced to cancel a speech at Utah State University due to threats of a shooting massacre. Brianna Wu is forced from her home due to death threats. Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander receive countless death threats. Felicia Day gets doxxed. Do you honestly consider it bullying when the general public points out how appalling the treatment of those women has been? This conversation can and should happen without this kind of harrassment. Of course, not all gamergaters are participating in that kind of harrassment and bullying -- plenty of you have valid concerns about ethics in journalism. But the first step towards a constructive conversation is acknowledging that that kind of behavior has to stop. From all sides. Thank you for your comment, and I hope that you will continue to engage in civil and intelligent conversation :)
Lizzie Bassett "Sarkeesian is forced to cancel a speech at Utah State University due to threats of a shooting massacre. " - Which was immediatly shown to be, "Not a threat in any way." by the state police and security of the area the speech was going to take place at.
"Brianna Wu is forced from her home due to death threats." - And continues to go onto MSNBC, CNN and a myriad of other news events to spread her ppropagandagarbage. Seriously, you have to be incredibly gullible to believe this.
"Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander receive countless death threats. " - Funny, seeing as they can't provide even one, and neither of them have had anything even close to rivaling the threats, and actual hostile actions taken by the Anti-GG people, sending knives and syringes full of unmarked liquids to GG peoples homes.
"Felicia Day gets doxxed." - Oh yes, just like how Phil Phish got doxxed... oh, wait... Yeah, no.
I'm not sure if you're gullible, an idiot or a sock. All three may very well be the case.
"Harrassment isn't ok no matter who it's happening to, of course." - You immediately refute any point you might even attempt to make.Well. Done. You've saved me two and a half minutes of reading.
Lizzie Bassett
There is also very little proof that gamergate did anything to these people
cerberouse1
calm down! You are sounding like a loon and taking an over aggressive tone. I know we've all answered this at least 10 times each if not 100 times but attacking someone's intelligence because they are misinformed or disagree with you isn't productive. Attack the ideas not the person.
Ashly Burch is working on a game that Zoe Quinn is making.
In this video, she's trying to discredit the people who think what Zoe did was wrong.
Doesn't this represent a problem?
Is the movement about Zoe Quinn's dating life or is it about ethics in games journalism?
Earnest Pettie That's a conflict of interest dummy.
Vitriol and threats are not a way to show something wrong.
Earnest Pettie
If her dating life is entwined with her professional one, then it becomes about ethics in journalism.
cryptexify Even though _she_ isn't a journalist?
Let's see how long before comments get disabled.
It depends. If they realize this is the kind of reason #GamerGate is alive. Most if GGs growth is because of the media blitz trying to demonize gg. People are looking into the facts and GG only grows. If they block comments... It only proves the point of GG.
I'm surprised they didn't just disable them from the start.
im betting 20 bux to charity says they do it tomorrow
***** I'm broke. But if they do. I'm donating $10 under GamerGate to one anti bullying charity or the other
Give it another half an hour. I doubt they'll like that their misrepresentation and lies are being called out.
I was oblivious to all of this, it seems like this video was misleading itself, or so the comments tell me.
Well, I have done my research and yes, I'm not sure this video is correct. It's basically all about how gaming journalists has hidden information (who are all apart of a group) and has criticized people for sharing their views also forums has taken their posts down and banned accounts, but when they are criticized they blame it on gamers entirely and video games as a whole, and this is why people are pissed off. Women has been brought into this because some of them has tried to become the victims for personal gains.
NortexG - Art You talk badly. How are you spelling words incorrectly? Ever modern browser has free and easy to use spell checking.
Kanji Watada Maybe I do spell incorrectly, does that make the information provided any less valid?
NortexG - Art I don't know. I couldn't read it.
Kanji Watada Please, don't be a troll, and if I misunderstood you I am sorry, you must correct peoples spellings a lot, In which I think you are wasting your time. (You also say 'I talk bad' when I was not talking...)
i wish i could take back this view
How the hell did you not disclose that Ashly Burch is an actress in Zoe Quinn's upcoming game? This is exactly the kind of lack of ethics and disclosure that #gamergate is fighting against.
Elver Loho First off, Ashly didn't speak specifically about Quinn, she spoke about harrassment against women. That's a pretty broad topic. Also one that... anyone should be allowed to speak about. No matter who their friends are. Why try to silence someone's voice? What does it hurt you to listen to her, regardless of who she's friends with? Harrassment is never ok. Once we can all agree on that, we can have genuine, constructive conversations. Also, no time to respond to my earlier comment? Elver, you're breaking my heart :)
Lizzie Bassett "anyone should be allowed to speak about."
He didn't say she couldn't. He said she should disclose her connections, since that's what caused this mess
Lizzie Bassett Isn't he actually saying she should have said more, not less? Seems like all he's saying is that she should have mentioned her professional relationship with Zoe Quinn.
YumLemmingKebabs It's interesting that so many of the comments on this video suggest that Zoe Quinn is utterly unimportant and irrelevant to GamerGate... until there is a semblance of a relationship suggested between Quinn and Ashly. Then Zoe Quinn is of the utmost importance.
Earnest Pettie You made her important by dragging her back into the narrative.
This channel is entirely too disingenuous. I've learned quite a bit about your "critical thinking" just reading the comments.
You should look at more information than your circles' opinion. It reflects poorly on you, especially when you enshrine your comments here in the comments section.
I respect her opinion and etc. etc. but asking the sister of an outspoken critic of the Gamergate consumer revolt (calling them misogynists etc.) to give an objective analysis is a bit silly in my opinion. Of course she will have a coloured view about Gamergate.
Nice try UA-cam Nation, try again.
My siblings and I have very different opinions about many things. Why should it matter what one's sibling thinks?
Earnest Pettie Because having family that support the opposing side could lead to lies in the sake of a family favour. Also she failed to disclose on this which is the reason we are fighting gaming journalism. Have a nice day :)
Earnest Pettie Are you fucking stupid. Gamergate affects her brother's CAREER. To claim there is no bias involved is pure idiocy.
Earnest Pettie Why didn't the video disclaim WHO this person is in relation to GamerGate? You don't see a potential conflict of interest? At all?
Rhett Facer You see if they keep claiming that GG has nothing to do with ethics, then your point is moot! Isn't that great?!
What's REALLY Going On with Gamergate?
The answer is not in this video.
Is this the Onion's new channel?
Okay, so if feminism is the issue, why are they tagging their debate with a conversation about journalism integrity? Why not branch it off into their own hashtag?
Also, why did you solely interview someone who has ties with both Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian (not to mention being part of the same PR company)? Doesn't exactly help dismiss the whole "journalism ethics" side of the issue much does it?
Also, UnSub from this channel if you care about Ethics in Gaming Journalism. They've proven that truth does not matter to them and they do not deserve your views.
WOAH there stop saying that people in GamerGate are doing harrasment! so far they are the one rooting it out.
Your just no doing your homework, so your all going to Listen and Believe the anti-gamergate side.
nope. YOU'RE not doing YOUR grammar homework.
*****
I wouldn't have any problem with it but THATS ALL you hear about GamerGate they are all bad that they are for harrasment and eveything else get swep under the rug. You just did the same thing by saying that GamerGate was responsible for the harrasment of Brianna, Zoe and Anita and none of it is true, talking to them =/= harrasment no matter what they want people to beleive.
Plus what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Or that did just fly out the window because a SJW tell other people that gamers are the worse people on the planet.
Tell me did you know that We know who made th treath against anita was in Brasil? But Anita is doing nothing to have him arrested? Or that the treat received against her at the Unoiversity of Utah has nothing to do with GamerGate? It was a guy who had a beef with feminism, games aren't even mentionned in the letter.
or better yet that gamergate got over 100 000$ in Charities but anti-gamer side called said charities and tried to pressure them to refuse the Donations? and called it "Weaponize Charities".
or maybe you could go here gamergate.me/ and check the timeline as to why we want gaming journalist to have ethic and transparencies.
If anyone is unsatisfied with this video... TYT Nation and The David Pakman show have extensive interviews and coverage. I'm sorry you all had to see this video. *facepalm
Actually, I don't that's what Miles said at all.
Christopher King Never trust Wiki on a disputed issue. Go to the hashtag, read the tweets, make up your own mind.
Anti-gamergaters abuse, harrass, and threaten women.
but it's okay when they do it because feels shitlord
Thank you for your deep and enlightening input, Ms. Echo Chamber, keks. Listen and Believe!!!
campnfish90 you heard the phrase echo chamber and now you use it out of context, because you are just that clever. No, thank you for your "deep and enlightened input".
How did I use Echo Chamber out of context, you are clearly spouting the same thing that has been blasted in the main stream media for the last 3 months. Did you copy and paste that from the guardian opinion article by Anita or something? Reals over feels.
campnfish90 oh i see the problem. You misread my comment. Go back and read the 1st word
Some people may have sent unnecessary threats to people like Brianna Wu but that doesn't mean they all are bad... That'd be like not supporting feminism solely because some "feminists" are just misandrists
Rodrigo de Toni It was false or true? Nobody really knows.
Rodrigo de Toni Apart from its not false. . . the only "false" part is that she slept with someone for reviews. . . Which nobody was claiming anyway, but the Anti's use that as a "AH HA!" as though even if people were claiming that it would magically make the rest of what she's done go away.
Also how EXACTLY is being against devs and journalists being in bed with each other (literally and figuratively) sexist?
What appears to be happening is that ANY criticism of a woman just gets labeled as sexist. . . which does nothing but insult the real victims of sexism.
Rodrigo de Toni Well there we go folks. . . You're not allowed to respond to a claim made if it's not directly responding to you. . . Even when the claim has already been debunked and highlights there shear dishonesty of the one making it.
This is pathetic. This is why gamergate is winning, because they seem to be the only ones who care about facts.
Rodrigo de Toni Nah, it was because of this:
np.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/?sort=new
If you're going to delete 25k posts, without giving any justification, don't be suprised when people think you're hiding something.
Rodrigo de Toni
False? Zoe admitted it.
Also, tons of info has been uncovered that people have been WAY past Zoe Quinn for the past months. Only anti-GG are hung on her.
Please do not upload videos that are missleading.
How to get all your facts wrong in less than 4 minutes. #gamergate
Show us your research, please.
Benjamín Rivera I have no more interest in proving to you this is a propaganda driven lie than i do proving to you the sky is blue. Look at the facts, see it for yourself then formulate an opinion instead of accepting whatever fool well tell you this is the truth.
"Why are we talking about Zoe Quinn???"
Yeah, we GamerGate supporters are wondering that as well.
Because without the Zoe Post and Adam Baldwin's GamerGate tweet of Internet Aristocrat's Quinnspiracy videos, there is no GamerGate.
Earnest Pettie
or because Ashly Burch is an actress in Zoe Quinn's upcoming game, Camp's Not Dead. See:
campsnotdead.tumblr.com/
archive.today/dNqme (archived)
UA-cam Nation did not disclose this relationship in their video or in the description.
Earnest Pettie It's what kicked it off but not what it's about. See: Genetic fallacy. See the 8 anti-gamer articles, collusion (GameJournoPros), the mass censorship on reddit which is what made me turn my head and say, what the hell? It's against people in position of power (media coverage is power) pushing their agenda via false narratives and censorship. The only media coverage GG gets is hate (see: this video we are discussing), for the most part the only outlet for GG is twitter and comment sections.
The problem with "Gamergate" is that it's one tag to cover a half dozen different things and in the end a certain percentage of people are douchebags and are going to act like douchebags no matter what anyone does.
Great point. This is the main point of the discussion.
Curious you got Ashly on, considering her brother is a highly outspoken anti-GG / disinformationist.
So you guys picked Ashly Burch, the sister of Anthony Burch, a huge figure against gamer gate, to find out "what's really going on." It is exactly these kinds of conflicts of interest that we are fighting against.
You forgot this:
Disclosure: Ashly Burch is connected to a game being developed by Zoe Quinn. From the game blog:
"Camp’s Not Dead is a full-motion video game in the style of old 3DO and Sega CD classics like Night Trap, starring beloved B-Movie actors like Greg Sestero (Mark from The Room), actors from the gaming sphere like Ashly Burch (Hey Ash Whatcha Playin) and being developed by Zoe Quinn (Depression Quest, Jeff Goldblum Staring Contest, Clone) and her merry band of game developers who make weird and interesting things including Jared Rosen (Hot Pepper Gaming, The Muppets). It’s Sharknado meets Sewer Shark meets Gameshark."
I can't believe that you actually call Eron an "angry ex-boyfriend'. HE WAS CHEATED ON WITH 5 DIFFERENT PEOPLE. He's the ACTUAL victim here. Zoe deserves no sympathy.
Just because you can't handle being cheated on like a mature adult, doesn't mean you're a victim.
stevetornowski Eron was emotionally abused by her, but since he is a male that's okay isn't it.
stevetornowski according to Zoe Quinn's own remarks, it does. She said it's the same as rape. Maybe you should read the logs...
Looking at this 9 years later i can't believe how badly this video misrepresented it's topic
Oh look it's Ashley who's related to Anthony Burch. Who is one of the people involved in the anti-GG side. Good job disclosing that TY Nation.
You can't kill our identity. We are not dead. #GamerGate #NotYourShield
Just because you have power doesn't mean you can use it to oppress people of all genders and races. It doesn't matter if those people have a hobby to play video games, you're abusing your power to spread hate speech against an extrodinary amount of video gamers, not #GamerGate
I'm a gamer, and I don't believe that GamerGate speaks for my interests. I don't believe that speaking out about the sexist portrayal of women in games says anything bad about me as a person who enjoys playing video games. GamerGate is #notmyshield
I'm a gamer. I don't believe anything that she has ever said has been an attack on me.
Earnest Pettie What does speaking out against the sexist portrayal of women have to do with GamerGate?
Earnest Pettie It's like you're just tossing around words willy-nilly. If you wanted to use that hashtag in a sensible manner, you would make some criticism of #notyourshield not being #GamerGate 's shield. You're welcome.
Btw, what can you tell me about the creator of #notyourshield ? Any interesting facts about how the anti-GG side may have harassed him, in his personal life?
GS Talbert
Because you cherry pick and leave most information out.
GamerGate seeks to END that practice.
Ya right! ... Once again the people who are discussing GamerGate are the ones who know nothing about #GamerGate. How is that people only show one side of the argument, and expect to be taken seriously ???
#stumpErnest I challenge Ernest to find a video with a 95+% thumbs up ratio that explains gamergate.
Like this one?
The Evidence and History of #GamerGate
TYT Nation and The David Pakman Show have much better coverage than this. And yes, more than 95% positive
Gee, it's almost like conflicts of interest cause people to be less than objective, or even lie to help their beneficiaries!
This topic could defiantly benefit from a longer video that's a little more in depth
george smith yes that, and less misinformation. What a horrible episode this is.
You know, one day, I would like one of these larger UA-cam channels you ACTUALLY know what's going on when they talk about stuff like this. Hell, one day, I'd like to hear one of these larger youtube channels actually have FACTS when they declare they have FACTS.
So, what gamers say they want isn't what they actually want?
Then why not give them what they say they want? Especially since what they say they want is something you should be doing anyway. You'd be taking away their only demand. They'd either have to go away or reveal their true colours. Either way, you win.
Unless what they say they want is what they actually want. That would be a shame for you.
Miles is a gamer. Ash is a gamer. I am a gamer. None of us believe in Gamergate. It is #notmyshield.
Earnest Pettie You didn't answer the question.
Also, gamers are dead, remember?
Many websites have either created or updated ethics policies. When all major gaming sites publish their ethics policies, will that be enough for gamergate?
Earnest Pettie Yes. Provided they adhere to them.
Earnest Pettie Sure, but on one condition.
The "other side" must unequivocally acknowledge that the harassment narrative was a gross exaggeration to deflect criticism and dismiss the movement. I, for one, will only be willing to discuss further from there once they have written public articles of apology, explicitly stating the agenda of all their harassment narrative articles.
Until then, fuck Gawker and its subsidiaries.
If you ever get sent a death threat:
1) Don't tweet or reblog or mention it publicly: that's the sort of reaction the offender wants from you
2) Take notes, screenshots and archived versions of the threats, and store them
3) Alert the authorities about the threat, and the website's staff about the scumbag user
4) IF, and only IF you feel that the threat was realistically possible (inclusion of personal information, knowledge of intimate details etc.) do seek hospitality from one of your friends, but make sure not to alert too many people about it (you don't want vandals or robbers roaming through your property)
DON'T OVERREACT! THAT'S WHAT THE THREAT MAKER WANTS YOU TO DO!
Ashly Burch is the sister of infamous twitter feminist Anthony Burch who is notorious for attacking non-feminist gamers and game developers. These people are absolutely ridiculous and don't have any credible opinions about anything.
#GamerGate never had anything to do with harassment. The antagonizers against the movement are the ones who constantly bring up the names of Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu and Anita Sarkeesian. THEY are the ones who want to talk about them. Nobody else cares.
When a movement of people bring up the topic of ethics in gaming journalism and your only response is to say "shut up you harassers, you're just a bunch of jerks" then you've essentially proved that they are right since you're unable to engage them in the argument. You can't win a culture war armed solely with character assassination attempts.
Oh btw
Ashley Burch is Anthony Burch's sister. Yes, that Anthony Burch, the one of Gearbox, who has a lot against Gamergate.
Ashley Burch is an old friend of Zoe as well, yet they felt no need to mention this either, did they?
YOU'RE NOT MENTIONING CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE FIGHTING AGAINST SO MUCH!
You could have just said "Hey, I also have a personal interest in this myself", and everything would have been fine then.
Sorry.
I condemn personal threats.
I support women in gaming.
I am against biased and corrupt journalism.
I support #GamerGate
If anyone is unsatisfied with this video... TYT Nation and The David Pakman show have extensive interviews and coverage. I'm sorry you all had to see this video. *facepalm
>nys not mentioned
>tfyc not mentioned
>the fact that Zoe has lost relevancy to gg long ago not mentioned
>game journos pro not mentioned
>3rd parties and the Brazilian blogger sending the death treats not mentioned
>gamergate harassment patrol not mentioned
so much wrong with this video
Kenton Rohan ummmmmmm yes sir, sorry for interrupting the plans *cough *cough don't listen to my first silly comment guys i was joking :I
* whispers in your ear * hail digra
Ashley Burch is not the right source to go on this, her brother was involved in the thick of it. She's biased.
If you want better coverage I would reccomend Thunderfoot, or CHSommers.
You don't believe Thunderf00t is biased? Interesting...
Earnest Pettie maybe everyone is biased in some way...but that's why you don't limit your interviews to just ONE solitary opinion from one person when it comes to complex issues
Earnest Pettie
David Pakman show. Go there.
Lud VanB Do you think all viewpoints are equally valid and worthwhile on all topics?
Earnest Pettie If that is true where is the video showcasing a pro #Gamergate stance?
I agree with her in that harassing is the worst way to bring your point across. If this situation continues, it will just hurt the image of the Gamergate movement. Let people be heard without getting panties pinched with death threats.
except there was no proof whatsoever that any of the death threats came from any supporters...threat against Brianna Wu was an anonymous account
Also the threats made to Anita had absolutely nothing to do with GamerGate, this is easily proven by actually looking at the threat she recieved and the statement made shortly after
www.standard.net/.media/1/2014/10/14/f43adaf9-0a46-46d6-9026-cc0f0acf8df0.jpg
archive.today/k8Agc
And this is why you will ONLY ever see those who stand against gamergate being interviewed by themselves without any kind of questioning. Because the moment there's any kind of opposition then their entire position breaks down. . . Usually with the simple question of "and your evidence is?". . . Although usually asking that just gets accusations and insults thrown at you.
Gamergate has been denouncing threats and reporting them from the beginning. But of course you wouldn't hear the likes of Burch say that.
But Zoe Quinn herself is responsible for not only the first doxxing in this, but more afterwards. And her first victim? Was a charity for women, which ended up getting death threats AND shut down cause of her. Nor is it the first charity she shut down. She is as guilty as she claims we are.
Yes, interview the sister of one of the devs caught up in the scandal. Yeah totally get her point of view and not an actual person IN #GamerGate . Way to mislead your audience YTN.
The reason why Zoe is such a big part of this is because she HAS used sex to receive good reviews on games, and the problem with the "feminist" game critics is that they are focused on the "fem" part. They believe that even though the gaming industry is predominantly male, that they should always cater to both genders. The problem with this ideas is that its not profitable. If men are buying the games, the games will be directed towards men. Arguing that the game industry should have less attractive females is like saying that all socket wrenches should be pink because there are a select few women who enjoy using them, therefore the entire industry should be changed accordingly. This is obviously not a profitable change nor one that anyone would support; the problem isn't the game developers making games catering to a certain sex, its in the people that don't like those games. In my opinion, if you don't like them, don't talk about them or play them.
That will never be the issue, friend. Quinn is completely irrelevant to this debate. She is being used as a smokescreen by the media, and that is where her relevance ends.
4Clubs Good point, I never thought about that!
They made this video sound like she had only slept with one man, when she had actually slept with at least five.
Tekno Pathetic
I don't think they blackmailed her into sleeping with them, more the other way around.
Zoe Quinn is not even a game developer...depression quest is not a game.
Sorry but you seems to have breached that ethical concern that #GamerGate has brought up. So thank you for not disclosing relations that's real professional of you especially when anti-gg demands that you a youtuber do these as well.
To answer a few topics yes the issue is overly complex if you weren't here from the start, (that means noticing it before the quinnspiracy) then following, observing, and overall noticing how the "gamejournospro" has fallen into this timeline then you would get a better insight.
I don't care how much trolls try and link this to harassment or if it is become a breeding ground for "trolls" to harass. If you are so easily distracted from the main issue then you are doing a disservice to yourself and the topic at hand and the people you are bringing this topic too.
Finally as for the "impossibility" of games being hi-jacked it has already happened. There's a lot of indie devs and places that have suffered on their behalf and have come out to say so. If you want to be blind to this "fact" that you so deem to be important to you in this video then you are showing how distracted you've been to the reality of everything. Overall I rate your video to be misinformation.
You've already lost my trust by taking the issue so lightly then down playing it by neglecting the most important part of #GamerGate .
Edit: To make myself clear on this and if you neglect the following things such as, "I am game journalism" and "if you're pro-gg we'll prevent you from entering the industry, aka blacklisting" then you have not been paying very good attention to #GamerGate .
You didn't talk to anyone who is pro-Gamergate. Thumbs down for dishonesty.
you need to fire Ashley, she has a conflict of interest and abused her power in order to propagandize for her friend.
so Ashley Burch is good friends and directly working for Zoe Quinn and you decided not to disclose this? youtube nation and Ms Burch have just arrived on #gamergate radar over ethical and corruption breaches.
I was screaming at my screen. "As long as it's continued to be associated with harassment."
YOU'RE THE ONES ASSOCIATING IT WITH HARASSMENT JUST LIKE THE JOURNALISTS DID TO DEFLECT CRITICISM.
Holy hell it must hurt to choose to be this ignorant to the facts.
This video literally explained nothing. I still don't understand what gamergate is. :/
Same here there just spewing the same old feminist and social warriors garbage they always do
Basically you guys cant accpet the fact that more than enough of gamer gaters were engaging in planned harassment campaigns over a game review they didnt like(especially since it came from a girl). This was done ALL because of Zoe's ex.
No at all, there is no evidence that links Gamergate to the attacks, you just keep spreading lies
I would be disappointed in my life if it was my job to make propaganda.
Once again ppl who discuss about GamerGate are the people who know nothing of GamerGate .... Why don't you actually talk to people who are part of the GamerGate community and get their side of the story.
But no we just get a bunch of idiotic hipsters who know nothing about the videogame community and haven't talked to anyone who's part of GamerGate nor have they brought up how the people on the GamerGate side were harassed and doxxed as well..
I would also like to point out Zoe Quinn doxxed the fine young capitalists and took down their webpage that was about a program to help get women into the videogame industry and the profits that program made would go to charity.. Shows how biased the people of youtube nation really are
A little biological tip. When you mouth goes dry and you have to halt for a tiny bit to make sure you mouth and throat are okay, it's a sign of deception and lack of honesty.
And from what I hear, she's a friend of Zoe Quinn's...
You clearly have no idea what GamerGate is and decided to make a video "explaining" it to people? Great job.
So is it true that the Ashley Burch in this video is related to Anthony Burch, who is clearly against gamergate, and friends with Zoe Quinn?
"But I'm just a guy with facts who loves to play Red Dead Redemption" Uh... FACTS?
70,000 tweets - most of them neutral or positive. Only a minority (5-10%) were negative in tone.
If you want to know what's really going on, read Totalbiscuit his post and ignore this video.
I don't think there is sexism in video games, i think gamers don't want see someone say "video games make people misogynistic and here's why" without giving real world facts on how video games effect people behavior. The more #gamergate try to distance themselves from Anita, Zoe and Brianna, the more they want to pull it back and make it about themselves. Why are they the only anti-gamergaters on tv? Why aren't pro-gamergaters interviewed on mainstream media?
Why even bring up Quinn? She has nothing to do with GamerGate at this point. Sure she is one of the cause that started it, but right now it's way beyond her. Hardly anyone within GamerGate is even bringing up that name. The vast majority in GamerGate are AGAINST harassment, if you see someone harassed, we will help you report the person and stop the harassment.
Oh, wow. I love how they act like they have really looked into this, and acknowledge it being complicated and multifaceted. Trying really hard to give off the impression of having done their research properly. Yet delivering absolutely nothing but the highly biased misrepresentations and frankly pure slander by the very opposition to GG, while omitting anything and everything that might disrupt the simplicity of this utter nonsense smear narrative. All while pretending to be reflected on the matter!
It's the opposition to GG that can't seem to stop themselves from obsessing over Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian. That is why they have been nicknamed Literary Who + number. They are irrelevant! In the cases of Briana Wu and Sarkeesian, they simply inserted themselves in order to stir up crap, and when some random trolls unaffiliated with the revolt gave them crap, they ran to the media to present their juicy fib story of misogynist gamers driving them out of their homes. Something which media latched onto because that is way more sensational, then the simple truth of the matter - that there are trolls on the internet.
GG was originally only about game journalism, but as things has unfolded and as feminists decided to make it a feminist issue, even outlets previously thought of as reputable has shown a surprising willingness to single source. This is what happens when the commercial value of a story angle is greater when divorced from reality, and journalists jump in with blinders on. Even the BBC apparently was willing to go down the rout of "human interest story" to justify the lack of investigation into the veracity of claims against this consumer revolt as a whole.
Frankly, this is a decision they will come to regret, as more people discover every day what a fib story they've been delivered. And these major news outlets are literarily banking on GG going away, as they very well might be implicated next. Because how uncritical does one have to be to actually accept the notion outright, that a consumer revolt would delegitimize their own cause by forwarding death and rape threats.
Shameful coverage on this issue.
Isn't Ashley Burch an old friend of Zoe Quinn?
Ironic the conflict of interest in that is exactly the sort of thing Gamers are upset with not being disclosed in opinion pieces like this video, hence the birth of the #GamerGate movement.
Welcome to the Rabbit Hole, it just gets deeper and deeper...
(copypasta)
1.ANYTHING involving a Video Game shouldent be death note worthy
2.Always assume rumors are false
3. the people who are DDOSing are just pricks who wanted a reason to test their hacking skills
4. Test games yourself insted of using a probobly paid for rating
Problems with your analysis.
1. Quinn has been out of the discussion for months. Larger evidence has been unearthed. Quinn's own attempts to shoehorn herself back into the discuss are why her name keeps coming up.
2. Sarkeesian, Quinn, Wu, and Day have all ferociously attacked Gamergate since it's inception. All four of the women you mentioned have routinely accused Gamergate members of their doxxing attacks without any evidence supporting their claims. Furthermore, one Sarkeesian's attackers was outed by gamergates as a Brazilian Games Journalist. Sarkeesian refuses to acknowledge this and continues to accuse Gamergate.
3. Who better than Ashly Burch? Sister of the notorious Anthony Burch of Gearbox Software who routinely dismisses ethical claims and has constantly benefited from in-house nepotism on behalf of her brother? Clearly we can see where this is going.
4. Right off the bat she accuses Gamergate of misogyny and states anyone who actually believes in the cause of Gamergate is a dupe... Oh dear...
5. Why do people like her keep going back to Zoe Quinn. Well lemme break it down for you. Game developer who trades favors for positive reviews is committing an ethical violation. Again we got that out of the way months ago, so welcome to Aug 27.
6. Allow me to point out that games like Gone Home, Dys4ia and Depression Quest were not rejected by gamers for content, they were rejected by gamers for being BAD GAMES! The fact that they games got glowing reviews, despite being horrible points to the number of revealed cases of developer+journalist collusion. You should be thanking me for clarifying that because everything on the point of gamer backlash you mentioned here was copied word for word from Feminist Frequency.
7. The Gamergate movement not only rejects harassment towards ANYONE, but it also has set up what is known as the "harassment patrol" which sets out to remove harassers and doxxers from twitter and other sites. No one wants harassment except shit disturbing trolls and sadly there's no escaping those on the internet. Gamergate does not recognize those people as part of the movement.
8. #notyourshield
Thank you Ashly for that incredibly one-sided hit piece that covered all the SJW talking points and attempted to yet again paint #gamergate as a roving band of misogynistic thugs straight out of a Mad Max movie. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to "Just Walk Away".
P.S. Thank you for giving me yet another reason not to buy Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel.
Maybe gamers are getting mad at reviewers because the reviewers haven't actually played the games and said reviewers make stupid judgement calls that ruins the games for everyone.
This starts out as a pretty neutral video, but then the guest appears and it seems very one sided, focusing on the harassment rather than alleged corruption.
Also, of course this has to do with Zoe and game devs in general. Do you recall your own analogy? If the director sleeps with a critic, both parties are in the wrong, not just the critic.
When a comment gets more likes than the video itself you really know you have been outdone. Gw TotalBiscuit, informative and well rounded comment as per usual.
I'm not a gamer but what the hell is going on today back in 1999 gamers didn't care about politics and feminism was just a word now it's a partisan game culture wtf
Most gamers don't rly care about feminism/racism unless it's obviously offensive, it's just the media who don't even play video games
Awesome. That explained nothing.
Nobody cares about Zoey we care about the companies that are corrupt Polygon Kotaku, Gawker and others. There are radicals in politics and religion but you dont go condeming Christianity or Democrats unless your on the opposing side. But to call an entire movement bullies and mysoginists is just ignorant. Especially after all the Good things the movement has done that you forget to mention of course. The GamerGate community actually have commited people tracking down people who make threating messages and report them, anti gamer gate just makes threatening messages. #GamerGate
So people in GamerGate are "mislead". most people in GamerGate are individuals capable of making rational conclusions with the information that is available, they're not brain washed sockpuppets.
This is so f**king one sided
"Today we're going to talk about Gamergate. Tell me, Ashley. Why is misogony and sending death threats bad?"
They might as well be talking about ebola treatment and asking why ISIS is bad.
This video is terrible.
It only touches on one side of the argument and completely ignores the past 4 months.
So some people are being "mislead" into believing that Gamergate is about ethics? Are you kidding me? Gamergate is solely about ethics! Also stop name dropping Zoe Quinn. She hasn't been a factor in Gamergate for a very long time. The only reason he name pops up anymore is because anti-gamergaters keep dragging her back in.
ProTip: Many people involved with #GamerGate denounce the harassment that ANY party receives in this "culture war", and we do not appreciate that harassment that someone in #GamerGate receives from people against #GamerGate is never discussed or reported. This video reeks of bias and the establishment.
I had a feeling that Comment and Likes/Dislikes will soon be disabled.
Like any other anti-GG videos that's getting blown away by facts and truth.
Zero research went in this episode I see.
It's telling that the anti-GamerGate people keep bringing up Zoey Quinn more than the GamerGate people are.
Its almost as if this video made by Quinn's close friend and business partner is biased!
What's really going on? Why UA-cam speaks on something they know nothing about, I have no idea.
Oh yes, this isn't a blatantly onesided narrative at all. Journalistic Ethics in Gaming is touched on and ignored to talk about alleged threats which have never been even remotely tied to gamergate. Zoe Quinn isnt even relevant to gamergate anymore, shes just an attention junkie.
Oh, and I find it highly suspect that a hate movement would have over 1'000'000 tweets, an anti-harrasement group within itself hunting down and outing trolls who attack *both* gamergate proponents and anti-gamergate proponents, as well as an affiliate hashtag #notyourshield that is a collection of women, as well as minorities publicly showing their faces in support of gamergate.
Im really glad Ashley could come on the program, spread lies, and then plug her channel at the end. She doesn't care about this issue, she just wants her paycheck.
ok guys, look.for a group thats supposedly concerned with ethics, the ONLY things you have accomplished are harassing women with death/rape threats, and bullying advertisers out of sponsoring websites that had opinions you didn't agree with... both of those things are abhorrently unethical. if you were actually about ethics in journalism you'd be fighting real shit, like the fact that the publishers behind "shadow of mordor were doing everything in their power to make sure you couldnt get a hold of a review copy unless you gave the game a glowing review that they personally approved... i know a lot of individual gamegaters really are well-meaning people. but the the group you are now enabling simply is not. they aren't actively fighting any REAL journalistic corruption on any level.
Wow. Wow wow.
Over 100k for anti-bullying.
71k to support women in gaming.
Journalist mailing list (of websites whose advertisers have pulled out) was uncovered.
Collusion uncovered.
Rigged contests.
And then you have the audacity to say that we're here to harass women?
What about the thousands we raised for women in gaming and anti-bullying charities?
What about the fact that Totalbiscut (who supports us) actually handled the Shadow of Mordor scandal and brought it to a conclusion?
You should... I dunno.... actually talk to Gamergaters and check out the forums/subreddits to get to know what we're about. I know your echo-chamber is really comfortable, and I know you don't want to leave, but for your dignity, at least take a peek on the other side.
Who are you talking to, exactly? How has gamergate "accomplished harassment" when it denounces any such activity? When talking about an anonymous movement, you can only judge if someone is part of it by how they follow the tenets of said movement. Anyone involved in harassment or threat making is NOT part of #GamerGate . As for Shadow of Mordor, let me remind you that the whistleblower on that scandal was none other than TotalBiscuit, who is a strong gamergate supporter. He actually has something to say about that argument, I suggest you look into it.
*****
Lets not forget help fund TFYC project that was in jeopardy due to the actions of Quinn. #gamergate supporters have done more for women in gaming then the self appointed mouthpieces have.
looking at the dislike ratio im surprised they havent turned off the comment section yet
Obvious Slowpokes are obvious. You're like a month behind on everything.
Our apologies.
Earnest Pettie
what happened to your profile pic???
'I think we did a good job letting you guys know'
This is awfully inaccurate and painful to watch.
Did you just read off another anti GG article or did you do ANY real research?
Jk, we know the answer.
The reason Zoe was so central to the whole situation was because she kept inserting herself into the conversation. The journalists who were also involved with the scandal had the good sense to almost fall off the face of the Earth as soon as the accusations came to light, but Zoe seemed to see the whole debacle as some kind of limelight to be sought.
Here's what Zoe's response should have been: "These accusations are not true and I will not entertain the idea that they are."
Here's what Zoe's response actually was: "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I DID PORN A FEW YEARS AGO! I JUST DYED MY HAIR A NEW COLOR! LOL NERDS! LOOK AT ME!"
That's incredibly hurtful and irrational, EndlessVacuum.
your youtube... leave the content creation to... well yotubers lol. Or at least take a college class on journalism.
Ashly Burch is the sister of Anthony Burch who is also against #gamergate . She will also be working with Zoe Quinn in a game. Possible bias? Perhaps.
This is highly Biased, you're ignoring the attacks from the Anti-GG ppl and about the Anti harassment brigade, It's easy to cherry pick to make a narrative. and you definitely didn't to a good job researching the issues, yes you backtracked to the origins but this stopped being about Quinn LONG ago, stop pulling her into this to make a narrative.
Honestly, I still can't say I understand what it's all about, but I know this. All the dislikes and comments bug me. This is video is describe the situation, doesn't make an opinion at all, so I don't think you can say this is illegitimate.
You called Ashly Burch as a neutral point of view, to explain what #GamerGate is? Really? The sister of Antony "Sure My Games Get Good Review Cause I'm Friends with Journalists" Burch?
The friend of the center piece of all this disaster, Zoe Quinn?
Yeap UA-cam Nation, you don't seem to be dirty at all.
Why is it that every "journalist" that covers #gamergate needs their consumers to do their research for them afterwards?