100% completely agree with every single point you bring up. The only thing I'd add is I believe - I don't have proof of this - the WB laughed at the idea of a "interconnected cinema universe" when Marvel boasted they'd do a set of solo movies that would bankroll the team up and put them further forwards. I think they saw the reaction of Avengers, freaked out and thought about rushing it, and with the new info of JLM I am even more convinced of this now.
Superman’s “World of cardboard” speech. As someone who as a kid didn’t care too much about Superman beyond him being the big Hero, it really opened my eyes to just what he goes through. How he knows he can quite easily break everything and everyone. That level of restraint really sells the kind of great guy he is. Add to the a glimpse of his full power when he lets loose... suddenly Goku beating Superman didn’t seem as a forgone conclusion to me 😂
Why do a repeat of the cartoon if you already have the cartoon for that story? The cartoon has 12-26 episodes per season each year. A movie only has 2 hours to tell a story every 2-4 years. I rather them do heavy risk taking and write something new. Zombie Superman, Murderer Batman, go crazy with the story.
@@TheSwordfish009 the idea isn't to copy the cartoons story. It's to take inspiration from the cartoons for the movies. Case in point, JL lineup should be the same as the main ones from the JL series, and the story should be similar.
The problem is that WB never respected their animation department. They treated their animation and their writers badly. Paul Dini actually talks about it in some of the older Fatman on Batman podcasts. Dini talks about one incident where a WB movie exec asked him to write a movie treatment for free. The exec thought that the "honor" of getting to write for a movie was enough payment.
that is true, but due to WB not caring about the animation department they were given a lot of creative freedom, something that the live-action dc films clearly have very little of
@@rubyr8922 Those idiots along with the execs at CN cancelled two really great shows, Young justice and GL TAS because of low toy sales. Like wtf. Also they canceled GL TAS because they did a crappy ass movie about it. Whose fault is that, WB?
Maybe after seeing Mandalorian they will learn that good story tellers and good story tellers no matter the medium. I would love for Timm and Dini to come onto the DCEU creative team and reroute the ship. Perhaps they could have Darkseid come and do the whole Flashpoint thing then restart with a proper Superman or Batman movie.
@@wrestlinganime4life288 Snyder was trying to recreate the magic of Smallville, but that isn’t the DCAU and the entire time I just want Superman to act like Daly.
Also: The kids who grew up with the DCAU now fall squarely into the 18-35 market demographic that executives covet. The market for their movie franchise was RIGHT THERE and they blew it.
They decided that Zack Snyder was the prime visionary to execute the cool & badass edgy side they wanted. They still view 18-25 year olds as dumb action oriented knuckleheads that have no interest in plot, storytelling or character arcs. They just want Batman with a gun & Wonder Woman in a very short skirt played by a model, even if shes a genocidal bitch
DCEU failed because they looked at the success of the Dark Knight Trilogy, the failure of Green Lantern, and the rise of the MCU ; and managed to learn all the wrong lessons from all three.
That's definitely true. Not to mention focusing on making the DCEU darker didn't help matter either. I can understand Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Zatanna, but Superman and Wonder Woman, nope. They are heroic beacons of truth, justice, and hope.
My favourite DCAU moment: episode “Trial”, when the district attorney who is forced to defend Batman in an Arkham mock trial hosted by the villains comes to the conclusion, “Batman didn’t create you. The truth is, you created him”.
I love the episode where Batman is investigating some weird disturbances with his satellites, and gets kidnapped by Brainiac, so Superman has to go undercover posing as Batman along with Robin to help uncover what could have happened to Batman. It's such a great episode that shows how Batman deals with his criminals but also how out of place Superman is in Gotham.
Superman's world of cardboard speech, and in batman beyond, when Terry asks Bruce " Why were you so sure those voices weren't coming from you?" And Bruce answers "the voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind, that's not what I call myself." I love that so much
@Will N terry and bruce's relationship was really outstanding. it was beyond what batman and robins were, and had really showed how such chemistry would work
@@thesilverpig yeah.. for a young kid like me then, i was skeptical of someone else becoming batman.. but terry was the most badass 2nd gen superhero. he was cool without even being flashy
When you read stories of Batman, Superman, Lex and Joker, you use the voices of Kevin Conroy, Tim Daly/George Newbern, Clancy Brown and Mark Hamill in your head. That's when you know they made great stories that left an imprint to a whole generation of fans.
Clancy Brown's DCAU work is probably the most underappreciated one. The two main heroes and Hamill fittingly get big kudos, but I love the condescending disdain Brown gave to Lex Luthor...a good Lex isn't just smarter than almost anyone else, but knows he is and struggles to not feel like he is always looking down at his inferiors. Brown also gave Luthor a fantastic "gentle" speech manner when he is playing the straight-and-narrow man to the public...a Luthor without some charm or other appealing manner can never work, because you wonder how he can fool people into not seeing him as a clear and obvious villain.
I really wish they'd continue the vibe of seasons 1 through 2 because once they brought in Batgirl and Robin it kind of went downhill from there as it had a very Batman year One feel to it I wish they'd kept those Yin and Bennett, the reason I think people look down on that version is because it wasn't as "dark and nuanced and complicated as a 1992" version but stories about *Bennett becoming Clayface, Batman having to go in the mind of Joker, Riddler's origin* are really great stories and I wish they could have continued with that formula.
See, _Epilogue_ really understands Batman. In that episode, Batman is the only one who could possibly have done what needed to be done to the super powered threat, Ace. What did he do, you ask? Did he kill her when no one else would? Did he beat her with superior wits and cunning? No, he simply sat with her and comforted her as she was dying. Everyone else was prepared to do what they had to in order to save the city, including the unthinkable, but Batman's unshakable moral compass made him the only one who was able to get through to her and convince her to peacefully fix what she had done. Batman isn't great because he's strong or smart or rich, he's great because he's a true hero. He has unshakable resolve and never compromises his values, no matter the circumstances. He's completely willing to jump head first into insane danger to save lives, even of criminals who hate him. Batman not using guns isn't a plot hole like Snyder seems to think it is, it's part of the core qualities that makes Batman great. He is absolutely _not_ the punisher, and making him that totally misses the point.
The image of him sitting down on the swing next to her, and just putting his hand out to hold hers is one of the hardest things I've ever watched in a cartoon. Then it shows him carrying her corpse with the second-most defeated looking expression I've ever seen on his face. First would be when he realized what happened to Tim.
that reminds me of a quote I heard in passing about that scene: "if you can't see your version of batman sitting down to comfort a dying child then that isn't batman, it's the punisher in a funny outfit."
My favourite DCAU moment is in Justice League, when Aquaman finds out that Grundy’s grave has been defiled and he tells Dr Fate to find the men responsible, and promptly dig more graves. Such a solid foundation of characters in JL & JLU
They made us care about Solomon Grundy. The guy basically had no character and we were still wrecked when he died, and worse when he came back. That is just a miracle.
Imagine having a step by step guide on how to make a succesfull universe and just not using it. Smh. DC has so much potential, great hereos, amazing stories yet the movies always lack something.
@@sugandhakohli Snyder wanted to do Star Wars, but WB wanted Marvel without the build up. I honestly would have preferred if they made the DC movies closer to Fast and Furious than the MCU because the MCU is bad humor compared with fun action.
Right? I consider myself a passing fan of superhero stuff, but I've been fairly consistently blown away by the DC animated films. Flashpoint Paradox and Under the Red Hood are legitimately two of the most brilliantly crafted films in the genre, animated or otherwise.
@@johnelmartagbago3764 I don't know... I know everyone loved the Mandolorian, but I just don't understand. Everyone raves about how amazing it is, but it feels sub-par to me at best. I feel like Disney is beating a dead horse with Star Wars.
@@chloerichter1911 There’s also clone wars season 7, and rogue one, and bad batch. Plus there are a bunch of new shows coming out, so as long as they are good Star Wars should be able to recover. As for games, Battlefront 2 has gotten way better since launch and Jedi Fallen Order was amazing, not to mention that EA no longer holds the exclusive rights.
I been thinking the same thing for some time. DCAU was able to make superhero cartoons fun while still being able to tell a mature story. Not to mention great writers like Paul Dini worked on the DCAU. Great video man!
@@atwunz MCU is nowhere lazy on character developments. They are not playing catch up with any cinematic universe. Even with their Phase 4 they are still fleshing out their characters first and foremost, and that phase doesn't have an Avenger team up film. They will end the phase with their first family, Fantastic Four. MCU's first priority is to flesh out characters.
10:50 "Animation is for Children and Live Aciton is for Adults" that doesn't really make sense when there's live action adaptations of cartoons for kids
Yeah he should have been. I still can’t believe he’s gone. I loved Static Shock growing up along with the rest of the DCAU and I agree that WB should have tapped into the talent from the DCAU days to create their cinematic universe. They had high respect for the source material. Plus the voice actors are the ones I imagine the characters to sound like. I mean you expect Batman to sound like Kevin Conroy or Jon Stewart to sound like Phil LaMarr.
Yeah, but if not even the DC editorial could respect him (his JLA run was infamous because he wasn't permitted use any of the big guns) I doubt Warner would give a shit.
McDuffie will always hold a special place for me due to his work on Deathlok. I loved his version of the character, even though there was a fair amount that went right over my head at the time. He brought such depth to characters, but wasn't cynical about them, either.
When I first heard the DCEU wouldn't include the Martian Manhunter, with the excuse of the name and concept of him sounding stupid or hokey, I knew it'd never be what I wanted.
Zack Snyder wanted to make the Dark Knight Returns and apparently doesn't know what a manhunter is. He's a bounty hunter from Mars how is that a stupid name.
@@LordTylerBluGunderson It's not exactly a well known thing, but you'd think that's a word they teach in film school considering how important detective movies are.
@@maninthetrenchcoat5603 they also probably couldn’t use the character because he was one of the main characters on the show supergirl and I know there was 2 flashes and 2 Supermans but it will be a while before we see the movie versions of those characters again and with the justice league they probably went with a more recent lineup which he isn’t in justice league was the more recent lineup except for not have a green lantern every other character in the movie matches with the recent lineup for the justice league
I’m a really big Superman fan and I was so annoyed about the fact that Superman’s main motivation for heroism in the dceu was Lois Lane, she’s a great character (and I wish they could have made her more important) but Superman isn’t some alien who fell in love with humanity though Lois, he’s a good guy from Kansas who loves the world he grew up in
Snyder was inspired by Injustice, Superman: Birthright, Whatever Happened to Truth, Justice, and the American Way, Dark Knight Returns, Death of Superman, and New 52 Superman. Basically he never got into the Superman Animated Series that truly define the character.
I've heard it put that, in Superman's mind, he's Clark Kent, just an average joe who's secretly an alien superhero. But Batman is Batman first, Bruce Wayne second. Kind of interesting the yin and yang the two have, with Clark's secret identity being Superman, but Batman's secret identity being Bruce Wayne
In BvS, he actually said that Superman was a dream of a farmer of Kansas. Lois was his main support system through all that was happening because she has believed in him and stood by him since learning his secret.
EXACTLY. Superman _is_ a man, he's human, hes been adopted into a human family and was raised as a boy in kansas, he cares about earth because _theyre his people._ Ultimately he mourns krypton, and does long for his original home and heritage, but he _has_ found a home, and it wasn't just lois who showed him it. Through and through superman is the depiction of an American Man who just wants to do what's right for humanity, that was always the point.
You know what annoys me Snyder making John Kent condone child murder anyone who knows John Kent knows he’s Clark’s moral compass and would never say anything like that
Ever since last summer I've been watching the DC Animated Universe in its entirety. I just finished it with Justice League Unlimited Epilogue, and I'm proud to say that these shows and movies still hold up, the DCAU is a prime example of how to tell an over-arching story.
Kevin Feige the President of Marvel Studios, a guy who himself is a big fan of Superman. And according to Kevin Feige himself,"Superman: The movie is still to this day the Archetype of the perfect superhero film origin story, and we watch it before we make almost any of our films, and that's been the case for the past seventeen years since I left the fold to go for work with Marvel."
Considering how WB tends to grab the people Marvel no longer works, like Joss Whedon, Patty Jenkins, James Gunn, the writers of Homecoming, etcetera. It wouldn't surprise if when Feige retires from Marvel, they try to hire him
I agree. Superman is Superman because he’s the most powerful entity on earth yet is a gentle soul because of apple pie. He shows his true power for others not himself and that’s Superman.
Superman is ultimately Clark Kent and that's why he works. He's just a man doing what John and Martha taught him was right. With the DCEU they made him Kal El and totally missed the point of the character. Clark's morality is what makes him the Superman his powers are just incidental.
@@LanMandragon1720 Snyder doesn't get that even though Superman's an alien he sees himself as the Earthling Clark Kent not the Kryptonian Kal-El. Understandably so because he was rocketed off Krypton seconds before it blew up and was raised on Earth.
I have as well. They had the people who pioneered the model, but because WB is run by a bunch of arrogant douchebags they refused to capitalize on that.
Besides Christopher Reeve, I always felt like Superman and Batman the Animated Series were the definitive versions of those characters. The material around Mr. Freeze was fascinating. It's just frustrating because the actors in the DCEU didn't really get their moment to shine.
@@FraserSouris nah. Dceu superman spends most of his time full of doubt and confusion. We needed that charismatic side of superman. THAT is what's MISSING from this superman.
@@vishall8246 Did you read Birthright and Earth 1? Because that's the stories this Superman is inspired by. Of course he's going to be full of doubt and confusion initially as he finds his footing. Despite that, there are sequences where he's charismatic, such as his meeting with Lois in the military base in MoS, or him against Steppenwolf in JL
Marvel, by starting their own studio, had the advantage of being able to put the creators of their universe to work on their films. DC, having to go thru their parent company Warner, didn't have the same luxury because they were looked at as just 'comic book people'. So their universe creators were relegated to animation. Which is cool, because they did great work there, but a missed opportunity. Plus having a universe runner like Kevin Feige to oversee the whole thing is, I think, essential.
Well…this can debatable as Marvel is also owned by a parent company, Disney. They are ten times more strict than WB, as they push only for PG-13 and in doing so restricts creativity.
@@jerrymaihiiga1275 Note that I said started. Iron Man, Capt. America The First Avenger, Thor, Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk were all before the Disney acquisition. By the time Disney bought them they already had their team pretty much in place. DC lack a Feige type to oversee their universe, somebody that knows it, loves it and is a mad geek about it. Their animated division is where that talent is.
@@craigjomaia Supposedly, they were going to have Christopher Nolan in that sort of position, but then he decided to go off and make Interstellar instead.
I think that’s the problem with most of the connected universes nowadays. They try way too hard to make a successful universe as quick as possible without trying to establish the characters, lore, and the universe itself first. You can’t just make a universe just by putting characters at random point and expect audiences to except it, you have to build up the rules and the lore of that universe and the characters role in that universe and how they are portrayed. You gotta let universe walk first before it runs.
Exactly. They seem to forget that there wasn't a meaningful crossover in the MCU until the sixth installment. Up until then, it was all cameos and easter eggs.
@@Stinkoman87 Indeed, even with dcau. One thing a lot of people forgotten about when it comes to Batman: The Animated Series, despite it being successful and a perfect representation of the Batman lore, the show was at first a marketing tool for Tim Burton’s Batman that came out at the time. It wasn’t until Superman: The Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures came out when they started crossing over with each other and introduced many other characters like the green lantern crop, Aquaman, and The Flash properly, it started to become a connected universe.
They're trying to beat or compete with the MCU which had groundwork for about a decade. If DC focused more on doing their own thing it would have been better.
shit, I'm in my 30s and have been tearing thru the DC animated series on HBO max. Justice League Unlimited is still amazing. So many jokes for adults and nods to deep comic lovers.
I appreciate the progression the mainline DCAU shows gave us (not ignoring Static Shock and Batman Beyond and the films and such, just keeping it simple): Batman TAS - a deep dive into Batman's world Superman TAS - a deep dive into Superman's world, with considerations of a wider DCAU The New Batman/Superman Adventures - actually just later seasons of the first two, but when the creators decided to drive home that the two characters inhabited the same world and would cross over, even going as far as matching Batman's animation style to that of Superman Justice League - expanding the primary protagonist roster to DC's biggest names, and getting explore each in depth (while also getting to tell longer stories thanks to most covering two episodes) Justice League Unlimited - moved the entire universe forwards in serialized fashion, while also touching on numerous secondary heroes, often giving them focused single episodes and only touching on the main cast JLU was the payoff for the years of universe-building, organically being able to shine a spotlight on other characters and expose a new generation to those characters in this well-crafted setting.
It's bizarre how Superman TAS is in its 25th anniversary with the end of JLU being 15 years ago when I swear Justice League is TIMELESS. That show will NEVER age.
There was plenty of planning. Man of steel introduced Superman then BvS introduced Batman(no origin needed) and we also get Wonder womans intro too. How is that not a plan?
Batman Beyond Is The severely underrated, It was my childhood Edit: This was in 2010’s so Batman beyond was done, My dad found a complete set at Walmart. He had never heard of the show before but he enjoys Batman movies here and there. So we watched an episode everyday before breakfast. It was pretty nice. And that intro is just so gooood
The first episode of Justice League is also a great blueprint for how they could have fast tracked their way to a Justice League movie so long as they led with origin movies from Superman and Batman (you could maybe also throw in Wonder Woman). Literally all the other heroes were introduced or fully fleshed out in the first episodes.
I think the main thing with the first episode of Justice League is that viewers didn't have to know what happened in the previous shows to follow along. For example, I never really watched the Batman or Superman shows, I mostly just knew the characters through cultural osmosis (because how can you not?) and the main conflict of the first episode(s) guides new viewers through the less well known characters, mostly Martian Manhunter (who I had never heard of prior to the show), and establishes justification for the heroes to work together without using Darkseid.
Dude! I say this all the time. Hell there was even an episode in SAS when Bruce come to metropolis to investigate a deal between lex and the joker. In his brashness Batman breaks into a night club and ruffs up a few guys to get some information from them. Superman shows up and tries to confront him and bats throws him into a wall. There was also a point in the scuffle when Superman revealed he knew Batman’s identity to which Bruce places a tracker on Superman to follow him home figuring out he’s Clark Kent. I think they could’ve used this episode as a base to start their first meeting, but instead of the meeting with lex have Batman hunting down a parademon in the city. This could have lead to a chance meeting and set up later events. The first episode would have worked too but after stand alone films.
There's also Justice League: War and Throne of Atlantis comics and movies if they wanted something more recent. They're not perfect but would have been a good foundation. Like it was right there.
@@GiantButterKnife The DCAU was really great at being interconnected but allowing for anyone new tp easily jump in at any point without being lost while rewarding those who have been watching all along.
Only thing I'd like to add is where you say the MCU was launched off the backs of the success of X- Men and Spider-Man it should always be noted that those films were launched off the back of the success of Blade. If a time traveler wanted to go back and stop the MCU from existing they'd have to go back and sabotage the first Blade film.
Not really. Blade was the first comicbook movie to work. But if it hadnt been for the huge financial success of spiderman and X-Men, studios wouldnt have been willing to continue to invest rescources in similar projects.
X-men and Spider-man (Raimi) are the backbone of the MCU, sorry to break it to you. Not Blade. Feige worked on the first X-men film as an assistant producer, same with the Spider-man films. He learned what are the should-be and should-not-be. He learned the ways of CBMs. That's why by the time his team is set to create the MCU, he knows the first and foremost rule "hire people that actually understand the characters, and passionate to develop the films". Feige's learnings from both X-men and Spider-man films are the backbone of the MCU.
@@airwaters X-Men and especially Spider-Man are the backbone to ALL superheroes now but the money that was made from Blade was what gave Sony (Spider-Man) and Fox (X-Men) the confidence they needed to make their own Movies. Blade is a part of the Marvel universe regardless if people knew it or not.
I can’t stand that the live action movies turned Superman into an aloof alien or an unfeeling demigod. He was a wonderful man from Kansas with kind and loving parents. Most of us have met that “Midwest nice” kind of person with a rock solid moral code and selfless demeanor. It’s a shame the guys entrusted with making DC movies didn’t take a page out of Star Trek’s book to point out that you don’t have to be an earthling to be a good human.
The "world's finest" episodes of Superman TAS were so good at building a relationship between Batman and Superman that it blew my mind how much potential was wasted with the DCEU.
That scene where they first meet and each use their particular skills to figure out each other’s secret identities and get under each other’s skins STILL sticks with me to this day!
Every time the conversation comes up about DCEU vs. MCU, I think about how awesome the animated universe was, and how if they had capitalized on the nostalgia and style of those shows from the early 2000s, their cinematic universe would be so much better! So thanks for making this!
I don’t know if Aquaman did or not, I’m not a big Aquaman fan, but even not liking Aquaman as a character I thought the movie was really good, I went watching it not even wanting to like it but I couldn’t deny it.
Didn't really like Shazam. The Actor who played Billy and Zachary Levi weren't on the Same Page-The Adult Shazam Acted More Immature and Childish Than Billy Did.
Disney started off as an animation company, which is why they embraced the storytelling aspect of animation regardless of the medium and made it possible to incorporate them into their live action MCU films that are adapted from comics. The executives at Warner Bros. however hasn't fully understand quality storytelling of a film despite if it's animated or not.
@@Micah_7 Apparently they failed because it was a bunch of white girls thinking they were being progressive. The whole social movement in the US is the same reason we don’t have nice public bathrooms for a few quarters like European countries.
What is crazy is that Geoff Johns was also involved in the creation of the DCEU. A man who is so obsessed with the silver age version of characters that he brought back both Barry Allen and Hal Jordan.
@@biguy617 that is what I am saying Geoff Johns does so good and respects the characters so much in his comics but doesn't translate them to film. Also Patty Jenkins says Geoff Johns was only involved in name only and takes full credit for that movie.
@@fatenabu1 that's what shocks me the most he is such a genius in terms of comics how can he make so much bad films, I think this happened because they brought directors to make movies but later on interfered and changed the movies way too much, These things don't work I've seen snyder cut and man that movie if relesed in theatres would have laid a strong foundation for DCEU, too bad WB didn't have the patience and trust on their directors it seems to me like zack snyder had a pretty good plan..
@@fatenabu1 tbf Geoff Johns was also one of the people that ruined the Justice League movie by hiring Josh Wheadon and Changing a lot of stuff from Snyder’s Orginal version.
@@zillauniverse7208 yea super crazy, with that said he is in charge of Star Girl on HBO Max/CW and it is pretty good even though I am not the target audience.
My favorite DCAU moment was when Batman goes to Grundy's sewer and just wordlessly leaves a Christmas dinner for him. Everything they did with him was fantastic, and brought him from "big zombie smash" to someone who is misunderstood and constantly attacked, but just wants to be left alone so he can rest in peace, essentially like Frankenstein's Monster.
DeathLeprecon Twist where? Was there any evacuation seen in the JLU “Destroyer” Metropolis? Did Superman fly anyone away? All things people heap upon Man Of Steel’s feet but oh, write a better snappy speech and Superman can just punch ol’ Darkseid with impunity - earthquakes and shattered glass and walls galore - without people whining about proactively punching him into the sun.
@@davidw.2791 Yeah I would agree that what Superman did in this scene is a dangerous action and somewhat as irredeemable as what the Snyderverse of Superman did. The only argument I'd have against this is a semantics one, where I would argue there's a possible evacuation contingency in place seeing as the DCAU has a long history by the time of Darkseid's appearance of Super's and their actions inside cities. But afaik there's no proof of this. the only counter to it is that it's a short scene and doesn't cause nearly as much damage and devastation and loss of life as it does in the DCEU. But again this is a semantics argument. They're both wrong, I only consider the DCAU version better because it addresses the power that Clark has and brings up that he's able to do this while actively not doing this.
Dave I would love to headcanon about evac protocols myself, but in this same episode, as Darkseid was having the upperhand as he pummels Supes with The Planet (literally) the people of The DP are still inside the building and this was hardly the very beginning of the invasion so I wonder.
ABSOLUTELY!!!I've been saying this exact same thing for over a decade!!!Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, and Dwayne McDuffie and Co. should have been put in charge!!
"Braniac Attacks" is not part of the DCAU. It was cranked out in a hurry to tie into the publicity blitz around "Superman Returns," and so it resused Superman TAS character models and stuff, but it's *NOT* in continuity. With anything, really.
@@TrippleBPlays OTOH, "Batman and Harlie Quinn" (2017) and "Justice League vs. The Fatal Five" (2019) are! Pretty much everyone connected with the DCAU wants to bring it back, and they manage to sneak in stuff here and there.
@@mahatmarandy5977 Was Batman and Harley Quinn part of the continuity officially? I liked it, but Batman seemed a bit too out of character to me ("smells like...discipline").
Maverick Christian according to Bruce Timm, it is. Evidently it was originally intended to be a generic DC adventure, but at some point in the production they decided, "eh, what the heck, why not? This is a comedy anyway, it's not like the suits care," so they reworked it a bit it's now DCAU canon, though I agree everything seems a wee bit off. But, y'no, comedy. You get to play fast and loose with the rules
Justice League vs. The Fatal Five also doesn't QUITE line up perfectly. For example, none of the present day heroes seem to have ever heard of the Fatal Five before, despite them having been the villains of an episode of Justice League Unlimited, we get zero mention of Supergirl, despite her having gone to the future to join the Legion of Superheroes the last time we saw her, and we see a statue of Hal Jordan as one of Earth's Green Lanterns despite him only ever appearing in an alternate timeline. And like Batman & Harley Quinn, there's something of a tonal disparity as it's clearly written by different people in a different decade. I would personally qualify both movies as "canon if you want them to be, not if you don't"
Anyone that questions their ability to curate a more mature take of this universe outside of cartoons should probably be made aware that the first two Arkham games were written by Paul Dini.
One of my personal “pains” is most of my friends like Marvel, and haven’t seen half of the DCAU outside of Static Shock. DC really could’ve had something great, but Warner Bros. have no idea what they’re doing.
@@mayotango1317 I would agree to it being both of them Paul Dini’s writing is unbelievable for a kid’s show and is still great watching it as an adult but it was Bruce Timm’s art style that gave it the iconic look that I remember.
These shows were my childhood, that's why I could never understand how the bigscreen versions could be so messed up. The first thing I noticed about the MCU was how similar it was to these animated series' world building than their own.
It honestly bugs me that people are still trying to call Zach’s JL as a masterpiece when I’ve seen way better and more effective JL team ups, the show itself goes down as one of the best ensemble superhero shows ever and it’s animation....animation made me believe they were a team with issues, problems, hope, death and near death, different interactions, actual chemistry between them and the fact that they’re not stoic or forced awkward beings as plot devices Why Is Flash more likeable and awesome in the series than the movies? Cuz the writers care about the source material Why is Batman the best? Cuz he’s actually smart and doesn’t depend on a Superman to save the day, HE is the being that gets things done regardless, he’s the smartest in the group I could go on to contrast why the DCEU doesn’t work with our notable heroes we’ve loved for decades, but it’s clear why, WB only cares about looks and profit from DC and not substance, it’s noticeable that only the solo movies have any real grit of creativity and storytelling, the directors have more creative control and they actually care about giving us a version of the character by making them mean something, is perfect? Not always, but they care about the material and that’s why the solo movies from the DCEU work more
In the animated, lantern even asks him about powers and is like whaaat you don't have any? And another point superman is captured and batman literally goes alone to save him. It infuriates me so much that DCEU defenders call every film of snyders perfect masterpieces, since they clearly do not understand the potential there is. MoS is apparently a masterpiece, BvS, and ZSJL, ALL masterpieces in their mind, the animated hardly gets any recognition when it gets the characters right and does them justice.
ZSJL is actually good just not a Good adaptation of the Superman and Batman Character but still good, they even talked about the plans for the series at the time which are hit or miss as most ZS DCEU projects are. Also the Batman there has improved somewhat from his BVS counterpart as he has become more hopeful and less Cynical. (which is what I think ZS was going for, it starts out Cynical but ends on Hope, like how The Batman did.) TLDR: I think Zack wanted to start the DCEU out like Watchmen then end it with Justice Leauge.
Cause Snyder Batman and Superman are both god awful. Both of them are literal charisma vacuums and neither act like leaders at all. One of the things that bothered me the most about Snyder JL was just how boring Batman was. He just looks confused half the times and his lines inspire no confidence at all. Not to mention that his supposed super intellect is nowhere to be found in either bvs, Jostice League, or Snyder JL. Superman is even worse. Snyder seems to give less and less of a shit about him over the course of 3 movies. In JL Justice, his supposed redemption arc is coming back and being a smug show off, and then having next to no lines where he actually SPEAKS to his justice league teammates. And then we get another 20 minute of the potentially "evil" superman. It gets annoying and clearly shows that Snyder isn't very interested in Superman as a character. He never acts as a leader in all three films, and his cool moments are just when he punches someone very hard or is standing there looking smug. And that's a huge problem if you want a DC universe. Superman and Batman are the absolute anchors of any justice league story, but snyder completely failed at presenting either of them. This is a huge reason why DC still cant get their connected universe set up, and are now deadset on rebooting. Cavill acts more like clark kent in real life than superman in the movies, and snyder still ruined him. This is also not to mention some of the actual issues with casting. Ezra Miller's flash is controversial, and Gal Gadot (despite looking the role) has a lot of acting limitations that makes it easy for her bad performances to show under poor directing.
@@ninjanibba4259 thats just dumb comparison dude because you comparing full series with hours of runtime that had lots buildups to small movies with longest movie runtime zack snyder justlice legue of 4 hours which is still nothing to the animated series and movies if you wanna include those.
True, but also not true Blockbusters: Too much money at stake, fuck up once and you are done for good TV series: Way less money at stake, but get a below-average rating and you can kiss your series goodbye while WB keeps making money out of it for years to come, no matter how big the fanbase is
You're right! I agree with you. I mean, to build a strong foundation for a long-running franchise, especially for a live-action, interconnected universe is to grow one character at a time before bringing them all together. Every Justice League member should ihave their own standalone trilogy before bringing them for a Justice League movie; I think that's what I would've done because everyone wants to understand the version of the characters more before bringing a team-up storyline and that is why the MCU and DCAU is a success. I really want Matt Reeves, and Paul Dini to work on a Justice League, but as much as I want Superman to show up in Robert Pattison's Batman universe, it would be better if Matt Reeves reference them in the third Batman movie without cameo nor appearance, just a reference.
Every time I see Batman Beyond's Fr. Freeze all I can think of is that devastating line he had. Batman tells him the building is collapsing and they need to get out (Not quoting because I don't remember the exact words.) Fr. Freeze's response: "Believe me. You're the only one who cares."
The DC Animated Universe, a series of shows aimed at children come off as more grown-up than most of the DCEU, especially the Snyder films (although I was surprisingly engaged by the Snyder Cut so, credit where it’s due).
The JL cartoons weren't aimed at kids Being suitable for kids doesn't mean being aimed at them. And yes in hindsight they can be seen as more mature because they're fucking tv shows. We had more time to be engaged with the characters With the DCEU being movies, and a company pressuring everyone to rush to JL we didn't have that privilege
@@kingkong9892 No it run on kid networks because animation isn't taken seriously and companies need money from toy advertisments to finance them It's a practical thing not an aimed thing. Writers do not write most cartoons for kids. Networks just market them better that way
The very end of Green Lantern: The Animated Series where the vengeance filled Razer had hope he'd find Aya who he realized he loved, I got all the feels.
You're telling me a director that said this. I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” Shouldn't have come close to a Superman movie?
and if the joker isn't voiced by mark Hamill, it's not really the joker. Seriously, I think the voice acting didn't have any miscast role, they were all perfect.
They actually did. Jay Olivia (the storyboarder) stated that Batman's arc was to become "like his Animated Counterpart". But more than that, the main inspiration for the DCEU were the modern comics like Earth 1 and Birthright since these were looking to be a modern version of the characters which is just as valid, if not more interesting
I’d argue that the method of starting with the team up film then having spin-off solo films could’ve actually worked. After all, the DCAU really only started off with Batman and Superman and introduced and developed the rest of the team in the series proper and it worked out just fine. Film audiences have accepted new iterations of Batman for decades and to a lesser extent the same could be said for Superman. A Justice League movie could’ve worked as long as you put the focus on versions of the characters that catered to the quintessential aspects of at least those two and developed the story and world from there. Not to mention how these days we have so many stories from The Boys to Invincible to Jupiter’s Legacy (That one less so) to where it’s just another superhero universe with this broad cast of colorful characters with varying origins and powers, and people just accept it. People just understand how superhero universes work now and that would be doubly true for an iconic one like the DC universe. But you need to distill it down to the essentials and present it in a manner that’s easy to follow. That’s where the DCEU made it’s missteps.
To be fair watch mos, and both the director cut, didn't make the universe bad at all. It's just it allows no entryway for anyone who never saw any DCAU stuff.
Or maybe, I don't know, hire someone that can direct not just visually but also the smaller quieter moments. Unless you're talking about a DP, in which case they had Larry Fong whose work on Kong Skull Island trumps anything he did in the DCEU
@@dharmani_youtube the problem with Zack, other than I actually find his work boring usually, is that he wants those big iconic moments..especially early on. It's like each of his dceu improved. But yeah he wasn't good at establishing really..it's like he wanted to make a frame of some iconic thing without the story behind the myth. Even when Superman wasn't Superman and just a super hobo.
1:52 Superman: Brainiac Attacks! Isn’t actually part of the DCAU, despite its art style. The movie basically ignores events of Superman TAS and supplements it’s own history/continuity.
Honestly we have so many live action superhero shows and yet I think I rather watch BTAS, STAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited. Animation is so underrated.
Have you heard of anime? It’s only underrated in the West because the only “good” adult animation is on Adult Swim and that’s targeting teens and young adults not the average adult.
@@AndreNitroX Idk, man. Marvel has some incredible animated shows, too. The 90's Spider-Man and X-Men, Avengers: EMH, Spectacular Spider-Man, Wolverine and the X-Men, and X-Men: Evolution being some of my favorites. DC also has a few good ones. Young Justice and Teen Titans are two of my favorite DC cartoons.
@@Stanos_1 You listed some of my favorite superhero shows as well. which tells me you have excellent taste in superhero content, and while i love that stuff as well, the DCAU shows are so engrossing i cant help but put them at #1
Gargoyles, The Incredibles, The entire MCU ..none of this would have existed without the DCAU. It should be noted that Avi Arad worked in Marvel Animation before he got into the live action movies. He was a first hand witness to the success of the DC animated universe and how it continually beat out Marvel animation in ratings and reviews. DCAU was a model on how to do things the RIGHT WAY. Arad and others took note of what the DCAU did right, whereas WB execs literally had no clue as to what their own employees did right.
As much as I agree that Bruce Timm is a master craftsman with a timeless aesthetic, I can not see him the same way after his more recent works. The Batman x Batgirl, the Nightwing x Harley are two that stands out most in my mind as a showcase of how off-the-rails he's become. It was Paul Dini who kept him in check and understood how to capture the soul of these characters.
I heard Batman The Animated Series is going to get a revival on HBO Max. So who knows, maybe after that show comes back, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and other characters could get their own shows.
@@disneyvillainsfan1666 I like the idea of the DCAU continuing but not BTAS I think a JL, Superman, Batman Beyond, or JL beyond revival deserve more love than Btas Or a DCAU show for Wonder Woman at least
Old Batman in the cartoons: *points out a gun because he's aging and can't do this anymore.* Old Batman in the DCEU: *killing and marking signs goes brrt brrt*
Safwan Mustafiz The sad thing is, his predecessor was “I won’t be an executioner ... *blows up entire ninja compound 15 seconds later, people died INCLUDING that peasant he said he wouldn’t kill*” Batman, in comparison being violent “oh so i kill bad guys, You got a problem with that?” Batman was an upgrade in honesty, despite still not being a no-kill Batman.
Here we go again bringing another movies implying Batman kills. Yeah he totally kills them but not in the most gruesome way, there is always a restraint.
Steve Rogers Here we are again merrily moving goalposts because your point totally is “Batman kills gruesomely he should be more restrained even as he kills” instead of “Batman kills and he really shouldn’t kill”. 👍🏼
Tbh I’m a lil salty he didn’t honor his name in the beginning with the other main creators like he did for Bruce Timm, Dwayne didn’t really even get a throwback picture either! 😞RIP to the legend Dwayne Mcduffie😭
My favorite moment from the DCAU was from Batman Under the Red Hood when Jason was holding the gun up at Batman, the Joker on the ground with a big smile on his face, and Batman talking about why he will never break his one rule.
It pisses me off so much when people imply the DCEU could never have worked without following the same formula Marvel did. You absolutely could have made a team up movie first and then spun out of that. We see movies where a "team" comes together all the time and nobody says the movie doesn't make sense because we didn't see origin movies for all the characters first. The problem Warner Bros had is they made bad movies and had little direction.
That, and Zach Snyder's. His belief in the mythos of John Galt, Ayn Rand's shitty "hero" of Atlas Shrugged, and the philosophy that comes with it A) precludes the possibility that the group could be greater than the sum of its parts or even the one B) discards those who aren't special as mere victims and takers, meaning anyone not of super is just a prop to make the super look good, and C) no way could a group of storytellers be as smart/right as him, because he is richer. Basically, none of the DCEU are characters. Rather they are characatures cobbled together from a skim read of the top 5 most popular DC comic stories. Everything from Batman v. Superman forward has to then drag itself up from there. And while I'm ranting, the Snyder reshoot of JL can't be compared to the Whedon project as they had completely different constraints. Whedon had to take a partial product of characters we couldn't care about and fit it into the studio execs' requirements of 2 hrs, no time wasted on characters, and action ever x minutes. The result wasn't good, but it fit what he was hired to do.
This ironically fits really well with the hilarious failure of the “Dark Universe.” The attempt at recreating the original “cinematic universe” and it died on take off. They didn’t understand these characters/stories that well despite having a literal blue print for how to make it.
I see some of my motion graphics work from the video on my channel that I did on Justice League Mortal at 5:31 & 5:49 they look great here! I’ve been a fan for a long time. It’s fun to see the people that you watch on UA-cam watch your videos!
I really dislike that in the DCEU Batman and Superman will never be as close friends as they are in the comics or DCAU, that friendship is a big highlight for me. If you haven't you should check you Superman/Batman Public Enemies. Lex becomes president and puts a very large bounty on both Batman and Superman.
Faxx their supposed to be best friends but in the movies they just want them to fight against each other , even tho they do fight in the comics your supposed to build their relationship first
1. World of Cardboard Speech by Superman 2. Green Arrow prevention the OG Justice League from disbanding 3. The Patriot Act episode where 7 non-powered Supes squared off against Eiling (Waller's words still ring in my head: Our enemies are never as evil as we think, and we are never as good) Edit: OMG, can't believe I forgot to add when Wally entered the Speed Force to defeat Luthor-Brainiac. It was insane
They actually did. Jay Olivia (the storyboarder) stated that Batman's arc was to become "like his Animated Counterpart". But more than that, the main inspiration for the DCEU were the modern comics like Earth 1 and Birthright since these were looking to be a modern version of the characters which is just as valid, if not more interesting
@@FraserSouris What they're inspired by doesn't really matter if they failed to learn anything from it or make anything interesting out of it. That said, I'm not gonna get into an argument in the comments of a youtube video. So, have a good one!
@@andrewgreanias8811 I'd argue they absolutely did learn and make something interesting from it. We get a modern take on Superman that the comics have been doing for years but not really seen outside of it. We get a TDKR Batman who gets redeemed into a DCAU form.
We got to give Paul Dini more credit! He understood so many iconic characters and thats to me what makes DC such a cool standout from all the vanilla marvel characters
As a diehard DCAU fan, I've been saying this for ages, but it always falls into void ears of the Snyder stans, those who need to hear this stuff. Unfortunate, WB rather have a murderous Batman instead of one that retires if he's gonna rely on a gun. Zack is a creative guy, but he forces too much some stuff.
And superman gets royally screwed. The movies get his character so wrong that it's sad. Look at what the MCU did with captain America. They completely captured why Steve Rogers is so loveable. And yet snyder and Dc movie people seems to think that Superman can only have three traits: Be aloof, act like a god, and bang lois lane. Those are the only three character traits that movie supermans can have apparently. And snyder only wants Superman that is turning "evil" too.
@@theirishpotato6588 there is literaly tons of interviews and articles saying that the next batman movie is a stand alone(not conected to any shared universe) movie about a young bruce wayne ,taking inspirations from long hallowen and seven
I am so gald that I watched these in my childhood. The content was so mature. Storytelling was beautiful. It really left an impression on me in my youth. Most of my knowledge and thinking developed from watching cartoons and playing games. Nowadays cartoons are so dumbed down.
What's your favorite DCAU moment?
You should watch and analyze/make a video to Attack on Titan
When Bruce waited with Ace
100% completely agree with every single point you bring up.
The only thing I'd add is I believe - I don't have proof of this - the WB laughed at the idea of a "interconnected cinema universe" when Marvel boasted they'd do a set of solo movies that would bankroll the team up and put them further forwards.
I think they saw the reaction of Avengers, freaked out and thought about rushing it, and with the new info of JLM I am even more convinced of this now.
Either when Wally obliterated Lex and Brainiac or when Superman leaves his dream world to fight Mogul.
Superman’s “World of cardboard” speech. As someone who as a kid didn’t care too much about Superman beyond him being the big Hero, it really opened my eyes to just what he goes through. How he knows he can quite easily break everything and everyone. That level of restraint really sells the kind of great guy he is. Add to the a glimpse of his full power when he lets loose... suddenly Goku beating Superman didn’t seem as a forgone conclusion to me 😂
As a huge fan of the DCAU, this has bugged me for years. Their recipe for success was right there, and they completely blew it.
Nope
@@smilinandlaughin Yep
Yeah totally so much content to make the best movies ever but they didn't do it
Why do a repeat of the cartoon if you already have the cartoon for that story?
The cartoon has 12-26 episodes per season each year. A movie only has 2 hours to tell a story every 2-4 years.
I rather them do heavy risk taking and write something new. Zombie Superman, Murderer Batman, go crazy with the story.
@@TheSwordfish009 the idea isn't to copy the cartoons story. It's to take inspiration from the cartoons for the movies.
Case in point, JL lineup should be the same as the main ones from the JL series, and the story should be similar.
The problem is that WB never respected their animation department. They treated their animation and their writers badly. Paul Dini actually talks about it in some of the older Fatman on Batman podcasts.
Dini talks about one incident where a WB movie exec asked him to write a movie treatment for free. The exec thought that the "honor" of getting to write for a movie was enough payment.
that is true, but due to WB not caring about the animation department they were given a lot of creative freedom, something that the live-action dc films clearly have very little of
@@rubyr8922
Those idiots along with the execs at CN cancelled two really great shows, Young justice and GL TAS because of low toy sales.
Like wtf.
Also they canceled GL TAS because they did a crappy ass movie about it. Whose fault is that, WB?
Maybe after seeing Mandalorian they will learn that good story tellers and good story tellers no matter the medium. I would love for Timm and Dini to come onto the DCEU creative team and reroute the ship. Perhaps they could have Darkseid come and do the whole Flashpoint thing then restart with a proper Superman or Batman movie.
@@KRYMauL So true.
Nothing against Snyder, but Timm and Dini get DC rights
@@wrestlinganime4life288 Snyder was trying to recreate the magic of Smallville, but that isn’t the DCAU and the entire time I just want Superman to act like Daly.
Also: The kids who grew up with the DCAU now fall squarely into the 18-35 market demographic that executives covet. The market for their movie franchise was RIGHT THERE and they blew it.
They decided that Zack Snyder was the prime visionary to execute the cool & badass edgy side they wanted. They still view 18-25 year olds as dumb action oriented knuckleheads that have no interest in plot, storytelling or character arcs. They just want Batman with a gun & Wonder Woman in a very short skirt played by a model, even if shes a genocidal bitch
If only they had the brains for that
Another excellent point
Yep
As a 35 year old, Zack Snyder blew it
@@Whiteythereaper Wonder Woman was American?
DC cartoons were doing the MCU before the MCU, and it’s astonishing WB didn’t look to those shows as a direct inspiration.
Yes
My name: AxxL
My job: Superstar
I like: Handsome girls
I have: 2 handsome girlfriends
My dream: Have more subs than my 2 girlfriends
Your name: pon
It was Universal or Multiversal that tried with share universe with werewolf, Frankenstein and Dracula if I'm remember correctly.
Because WB is too busy having their heads up their own asses to pay attention.
Even the Arkham games took inspiration from the DCAU.
These cartoons literally were the best thing every morning as a kid
Agreed. I wish WB took inspiration from the DCAU with the DCEU.
Well with dave filoni over at star wars making big steps in live action i think that the bridge from animation to live action will be crossed soon
Same.
Except Batman TAS was slated as a weekday afternoon show. And a short stint experiment for prime time. Not sure how you watched it in the morning?
I agree
DCEU failed because they looked at the success of the Dark Knight Trilogy, the failure of Green Lantern, and the rise of the MCU ; and managed to learn all the wrong lessons from all three.
Lol. the Dark Knight trilogy was trash written for casuals.
the DCEU is fantastic and comic accurate.
I suggest you go read one
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 LMFAOOO OK BUD💀
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 what no bitches does to mf
That's definitely true. Not to mention focusing on making the DCEU darker didn't help matter either. I can understand Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Zatanna, but Superman and Wonder Woman, nope. They are heroic beacons of truth, justice, and hope.
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 when you want to troll, try making it less obvious, youll get a better kick out of it
My favourite DCAU moment: episode “Trial”, when the district attorney who is forced to defend Batman in an Arkham mock trial hosted by the villains comes to the conclusion, “Batman didn’t create you. The truth is, you created him”.
That was one of my favorite episodes
The DA was against Batman at first but she came around.
I love the episode where Batman is investigating some weird disturbances with his satellites, and gets kidnapped by Brainiac, so Superman has to go undercover posing as Batman along with Robin to help uncover what could have happened to Batman. It's such a great episode that shows how Batman deals with his criminals but also how out of place Superman is in Gotham.
@@akilbrazier1421 I like how every episode of that show is such a well-written work of art.
@@xenablossom4682 I liked that aspect, and I liked how at the end she said she still wants to work toward a Gotham that no longer needs Batman.
Superman's world of cardboard speech, and in batman beyond, when Terry asks Bruce " Why were you so sure those voices weren't coming from you?" And Bruce answers "the voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind, that's not what I call myself." I love that so much
that moment was really one of the best.. it cemented the fact that batman was the person, and bruce was the alter ego
@Will N terry and bruce's relationship was really outstanding. it was beyond what batman and robins were, and had really showed how such chemistry would work
@@paulocuento9949 its almost crazy how good batman beyond was for not having any source material.
@@thesilverpig yeah.. for a young kid like me then, i was skeptical of someone else becoming batman.. but terry was the most badass 2nd gen superhero. he was cool without even being flashy
@@thesilverpig What's even crazier is that they wrote the episodes basically week to week.
When you read stories of Batman, Superman, Lex and Joker, you use the voices of Kevin Conroy, Tim Daly/George Newbern, Clancy Brown and Mark Hamill in your head. That's when you know they made great stories that left an imprint to a whole generation of fans.
Mark Hamill is the joker. You cant convince me otherwise
@@malonee Troy bakers joker has been growing on me a lot too
LEX LUTHOR IN THE DCAU WAS CLANCY BROWN?? why the fuck can i never recognize that dudes voice
Clancy Brown's DCAU work is probably the most underappreciated one. The two main heroes and Hamill fittingly get big kudos, but I love the condescending disdain Brown gave to Lex Luthor...a good Lex isn't just smarter than almost anyone else, but knows he is and struggles to not feel like he is always looking down at his inferiors. Brown also gave Luthor a fantastic "gentle" speech manner when he is playing the straight-and-narrow man to the public...a Luthor without some charm or other appealing manner can never work, because you wonder how he can fool people into not seeing him as a clear and obvious villain.
I do wonder between Tim Daily and George Newbern who people hear more in their head while reading Superman.
DCAU: *builds up character over a period of time.*
DCEU: I am speed!
This ^
is ^
factual ^
@@clementinelives yo wassup clem
Speed indeed.
Also, The Batman 2004 series did a good leading up to the Justice League, starting from meeting a few other DC heroes first individually.
So long as Penguin getting a Yellow Lantern Ring doesn't happen... HELL YES
I agree. It's underrated too.
The Batman is criminally underrated
That show had some questionable episodes. Also that weird Batman vs Dracula movie...
I really wish they'd continue the vibe of seasons 1 through 2 because once they brought in Batgirl and Robin it kind of went downhill from there as it had a very Batman year One feel to it I wish they'd kept those Yin and Bennett, the reason I think people look down on that version is because it wasn't as "dark and nuanced and complicated as a 1992" version but stories about *Bennett becoming Clayface, Batman having to go in the mind of Joker, Riddler's origin* are really great stories and I wish they could have continued with that formula.
See, _Epilogue_ really understands Batman. In that episode, Batman is the only one who could possibly have done what needed to be done to the super powered threat, Ace.
What did he do, you ask? Did he kill her when no one else would? Did he beat her with superior wits and cunning? No, he simply sat with her and comforted her as she was dying.
Everyone else was prepared to do what they had to in order to save the city, including the unthinkable, but Batman's unshakable moral compass made him the only one who was able to get through to her and convince her to peacefully fix what she had done. Batman isn't great because he's strong or smart or rich, he's great because he's a true hero. He has unshakable resolve and never compromises his values, no matter the circumstances. He's completely willing to jump head first into insane danger to save lives, even of criminals who hate him. Batman not using guns isn't a plot hole like Snyder seems to think it is, it's part of the core qualities that makes Batman great. He is absolutely _not_ the punisher, and making him that totally misses the point.
The image of him sitting down on the swing next to her, and just putting his hand out to hold hers is one of the hardest things I've ever watched in a cartoon. Then it shows him carrying her corpse with the second-most defeated looking expression I've ever seen on his face. First would be when he realized what happened to Tim.
that reminds me of a quote I heard in passing about that scene:
"if you can't see your version of batman sitting down to comfort a dying child then that isn't batman, it's the punisher in a funny outfit."
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 bro u just made that up🤦🏻♂️😭
@@Alehigh4L it’s from the UA-cam channel overly sarcastic productions
I think on their video on antiheroes
@@Randomyoutuber-4831 yea, and that quote is more accurate than Jack Snyder seems to understand
My favourite DCAU moment is in Justice League, when Aquaman finds out that Grundy’s grave has been defiled and he tells Dr Fate to find the men responsible, and promptly dig more graves. Such a solid foundation of characters in JL & JLU
The dialog in that show was a thing of art.
They made us care about Solomon Grundy. The guy basically had no character and we were still wrecked when he died, and worse when he came back. That is just a miracle.
@He-Man AKA The Universe Master "Guys, I feel kinda funny.."
Imagine having a step by step guide on how to make a succesfull universe and just not using it. Smh. DC has so much potential, great hereos, amazing stories yet the movies always lack something.
Warner Bros are to blame, who are in a mad rush to become MCU instead of their own thing
@@sugandhakohli Snyder wanted to do Star Wars, but WB wanted Marvel without the build up. I honestly would have preferred if they made the DC movies closer to Fast and Furious than the MCU because the MCU is bad humor compared with fun action.
Agree 100%
Right? I consider myself a passing fan of superhero stuff, but I've been fairly consistently blown away by the DC animated films. Flashpoint Paradox and Under the Red Hood are legitimately two of the most brilliantly crafted films in the genre, animated or otherwise.
@@SewerTapes Very well said if you haven't seen it yet, i recommend crisis on two earths
Dave Filoni is a perfect example of taking an animator and having them move to live action.
The Star Wars franchise is gradually healing, I still think DCEU could recover as well.
@@johnelmartagbago3764 I don't know... I know everyone loved the Mandolorian, but I just don't understand. Everyone raves about how amazing it is, but it feels sub-par to me at best. I feel like Disney is beating a dead horse with Star Wars.
@@chloerichter1911 There’s also clone wars season 7, and rogue one, and bad batch. Plus there are a bunch of new shows coming out, so as long as they are good Star Wars should be able to recover. As for games, Battlefront 2 has gotten way better since launch and Jedi Fallen Order was amazing, not to mention that EA no longer holds the exclusive rights.
@@chloerichter1911 wtf just logout
@@matthewrickard5050 ???
I been thinking the same thing for some time. DCAU was able to make superhero cartoons fun while still being able to tell a mature story. Not to mention great writers like Paul Dini worked on the DCAU. Great video man!
What about MCU? Are they being too lazy on character development and storyline?
@@atwunz MCU is nowhere lazy on character developments. They are not playing catch up with any cinematic universe. Even with their Phase 4 they are still fleshing out their characters first and foremost, and that phase doesn't have an Avenger team up film. They will end the phase with their first family, Fantastic Four. MCU's first priority is to flesh out characters.
10:50 "Animation is for Children and Live Aciton is for Adults"
that doesn't really make sense when there's live action adaptations of cartoons for kids
"Animation is for Children and Live Aciton is for Adults" was clear proof of their poor understanding of their audience..
@@paulocuento9949 💯
And yet adult cartoons are a thing
Especially after watching Invincible
@@paulocuento9949 I don’t think that’s what he was saying. I think that was a generalization based on the average American
Had he lived, *Dwayne McDuffie* could have - and should have - become WB/DC's own "Kevin Feige". _JLU_ is everything the DCEU could be.
Yeah he should have been. I still can’t believe he’s gone. I loved Static Shock growing up along with the rest of the DCAU and I agree that WB should have tapped into the talent from the DCAU days to create their cinematic universe. They had high respect for the source material. Plus the voice actors are the ones I imagine the characters to sound like. I mean you expect Batman to sound like Kevin Conroy or Jon Stewart to sound like Phil LaMarr.
Yeah, but if not even the DC editorial could respect him (his JLA run was infamous because he wasn't permitted use any of the big guns) I doubt Warner would give a shit.
@@alejandrozapata6286 this is sadly true
McDuffie will always hold a special place for me due to his work on Deathlok. I loved his version of the character, even though there was a fair amount that went right over my head at the time. He brought such depth to characters, but wasn't cynical about them, either.
When I first heard the DCEU wouldn't include the Martian Manhunter, with the excuse of the name and concept of him sounding stupid or hokey, I knew it'd never be what I wanted.
Zack Snyder wanted to make the Dark Knight Returns and apparently doesn't know what a manhunter is. He's a bounty hunter from Mars how is that a stupid name.
@@KRYMauL I can’t believe Zack Snyder doesn’t even know what Martian Manhunter even means.
@@LordTylerBluGunderson It's not exactly a well known thing, but you'd think that's a word they teach in film school considering how important detective movies are.
They could've just done what they DCAU did, and just call him J'onn J'onzz or just the Martian.
@@maninthetrenchcoat5603 they also probably couldn’t use the character because he was one of the main characters on the show supergirl and I know there was 2 flashes and 2 Supermans but it will be a while before we see the movie versions of those characters again and with the justice league they probably went with a more recent lineup which he isn’t in justice league was the more recent lineup except for not have a green lantern every other character in the movie matches with the recent lineup for the justice league
I’m a really big Superman fan and I was so annoyed about the fact that Superman’s main motivation for heroism in the dceu was Lois Lane, she’s a great character (and I wish they could have made her more important) but Superman isn’t some alien who fell in love with humanity though Lois, he’s a good guy from Kansas who loves the world he grew up in
Snyder was inspired by Injustice, Superman: Birthright, Whatever Happened to Truth, Justice, and the American Way, Dark Knight Returns, Death of Superman, and New 52 Superman. Basically he never got into the Superman Animated Series that truly define the character.
I've heard it put that, in Superman's mind, he's Clark Kent, just an average joe who's secretly an alien superhero. But Batman is Batman first, Bruce Wayne second. Kind of interesting the yin and yang the two have, with Clark's secret identity being Superman, but Batman's secret identity being Bruce Wayne
In BvS, he actually said that Superman was a dream of a farmer of Kansas. Lois was his main support system through all that was happening because she has believed in him and stood by him since learning his secret.
EXACTLY.
Superman _is_ a man, he's human, hes been adopted into a human family and was raised as a boy in kansas, he cares about earth because _theyre his people._
Ultimately he mourns krypton, and does long for his original home and heritage, but he _has_ found a home, and it wasn't just lois who showed him it. Through and through superman is the depiction of an American Man who just wants to do what's right for humanity, that was always the point.
You know what annoys me Snyder making John Kent condone child murder anyone who knows John Kent knows he’s Clark’s moral compass and would never say anything like that
Ever since last summer I've been watching the DC Animated Universe in its entirety. I just finished it with Justice League Unlimited Epilogue, and I'm proud to say that these shows and movies still hold up, the DCAU is a prime example of how to tell an over-arching story.
Kevin Feige the President of Marvel Studios, a guy who himself is a big fan of Superman. And according to Kevin Feige himself,"Superman: The movie is still to this day the Archetype of the perfect superhero film origin story, and we watch it before we make almost any of our films, and that's been the case for the past seventeen years since I left the fold to go for work with Marvel."
As a Superman fan this makes me happy to hear, but sad that the head of MARVEL is more inspired by DC's greatest hero than WB is...
@@Supermateo97 difference between a fan making movies vs money hungry assholes making movies.
Considering how WB tends to grab the people Marvel no longer works, like Joss Whedon, Patty Jenkins, James Gunn, the writers of Homecoming, etcetera. It wouldn't surprise if when Feige retires from Marvel, they try to hire him
@@JustKrin eh, i hope not. one comedic universe is more than enough.
@@amazo88 lol marvel is more than comedy. Dc fans like using this argument.
DC animation is so dam good
still looks good even today
It looks better than today’s lazy animation. It’s actual art, not some soulless, CG rendering that gets pumped out as fast and as cheaply as possible.
Agreed
They had quite a while to refine it
I agree. Superman is Superman because he’s the most powerful entity on earth yet is a gentle soul because of apple pie. He shows his true power for others not himself and that’s Superman.
Superman is ultimately Clark Kent and that's why he works. He's just a man doing what John and Martha taught him was right. With the DCEU they made him Kal El and totally missed the point of the character. Clark's morality is what makes him the Superman his powers are just incidental.
Superman is the classic hero that wants to use his abilities to help others. Powerful, yet gentle personality.
@@LanMandragon1720 Snyder doesn't get that even though Superman's an alien he sees himself as the Earthling Clark Kent not the Kryptonian Kal-El. Understandably so because he was rocketed off Krypton seconds before it blew up and was raised on Earth.
Hack Snyder Turned Superman Into A God With God Problems.
I Don't Even Call That Abomination Superman, I Call It Snyder Man Instead.
@@LanMandragon1720 Smallville got it right, because as you said, Superman is Clark.
Reads title: ive been saying this for years
Sameee
Coulda been so good...
Same
I have as well. They had the people who pioneered the model, but because WB is run by a bunch of arrogant douchebags they refused to capitalize on that.
Same
Besides Christopher Reeve, I always felt like Superman and Batman the Animated Series were the definitive versions of those characters. The material around Mr. Freeze was fascinating. It's just frustrating because the actors in the DCEU didn't really get their moment to shine.
I disagree. DCEU Supes and Bats got plenty of time to shine and show their stuff. See all their movies.
I agree .
@@FraserSouris nah.
Dceu superman spends most of his time full of doubt and confusion.
We needed that charismatic side of superman.
THAT is what's MISSING from this superman.
Tyler's superman is better imo
@@vishall8246 Did you read Birthright and Earth 1? Because that's the stories this Superman is inspired by. Of course he's going to be full of doubt and confusion initially as he finds his footing.
Despite that, there are sequences where he's charismatic, such as his meeting with Lois in the military base in MoS, or him against Steppenwolf in JL
Marvel, by starting their own studio, had the advantage of being able to put the creators of their universe to work on their films. DC, having to go thru their parent company Warner, didn't have the same luxury because they were looked at as just 'comic book people'. So their universe creators were relegated to animation. Which is cool, because they did great work there, but a missed opportunity. Plus having a universe runner like Kevin Feige to oversee the whole thing is, I think, essential.
Well…this can debatable as Marvel is also owned by a parent company, Disney. They are ten times more strict than WB, as they push only for PG-13 and in doing so restricts creativity.
@@jerrymaihiiga1275 Note that I said started. Iron Man, Capt. America The First Avenger, Thor, Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk were all before the Disney acquisition. By the time Disney bought them they already had their team pretty much in place. DC lack a Feige type to oversee their universe, somebody that knows it, loves it and is a mad geek about it. Their animated division is where that talent is.
@@craigjomaia last I heard, Disney got them right after iron man.
@@erronblack308 Nope, Paramount was the distributor of the movies I listed.
@@craigjomaia Supposedly, they were going to have Christopher Nolan in that sort of position, but then he decided to go off and make Interstellar instead.
I think that’s the problem with most of the connected universes nowadays. They try way too hard to make a successful universe as quick as possible without trying to establish the characters, lore, and the universe itself first. You can’t just make a universe just by putting characters at random point and expect audiences to except it, you have to build up the rules and the lore of that universe and the characters role in that universe and how they are portrayed. You gotta let universe walk first before it runs.
Exactly. They seem to forget that there wasn't a meaningful crossover in the MCU until the sixth installment. Up until then, it was all cameos and easter eggs.
Good analysis bro
@@Stinkoman87 Indeed, even with dcau. One thing a lot of people forgotten about when it comes to Batman: The Animated Series, despite it being successful and a perfect representation of the Batman lore, the show was at first a marketing tool for Tim Burton’s Batman that came out at the time. It wasn’t until Superman: The Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures came out when they started crossing over with each other and introduced many other characters like the green lantern crop, Aquaman, and The Flash properly, it started to become a connected universe.
@@ishaanbanerjee7902 Thanks man
They're trying to beat or compete with the MCU which had groundwork for about a decade. If DC focused more on doing their own thing it would have been better.
shit, I'm in my 30s and have been tearing thru the DC animated series on HBO max. Justice League Unlimited is still amazing. So many jokes for adults and nods to deep comic lovers.
In the Epilouge episode he was talking about Amanda Waller makes a joke about how Bruce left his DNA all over town.
@@eastsidereviews727 dropping batloads all over gotham like a boss!
We’ll be keeping in touch “Rich Boy”
Batman *surprise pikachu face* 😳
I appreciate the progression the mainline DCAU shows gave us (not ignoring Static Shock and Batman Beyond and the films and such, just keeping it simple):
Batman TAS - a deep dive into Batman's world
Superman TAS - a deep dive into Superman's world, with considerations of a wider DCAU
The New Batman/Superman Adventures - actually just later seasons of the first two, but when the creators decided to drive home that the two characters inhabited the same world and would cross over, even going as far as matching Batman's animation style to that of Superman
Justice League - expanding the primary protagonist roster to DC's biggest names, and getting explore each in depth (while also getting to tell longer stories thanks to most covering two episodes)
Justice League Unlimited - moved the entire universe forwards in serialized fashion, while also touching on numerous secondary heroes, often giving them focused single episodes and only touching on the main cast
JLU was the payoff for the years of universe-building, organically being able to shine a spotlight on other characters and expose a new generation to those characters in this well-crafted setting.
It's bizarre how Superman TAS is in its 25th anniversary with the end of JLU being 15 years ago when I swear Justice League is TIMELESS. That show will NEVER age.
DCAU: We love planning out our movies, shows etc.
DCEU: Nah we don't plan we just want money and be a Wish version of the MCU.
There was plenty of planning.
Man of steel introduced Superman then BvS introduced Batman(no origin needed) and we also get Wonder womans intro too.
How is that not a plan?
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 Because it was rushed and obviously that they were just doing it to catch up rather than developing their characters
The DCAU is so fucking good, the live action movies and tv shows honestly could never measure up without some hard resets in literally every aspect.
I'd argue the movies are great, often better than their animated counterparts more because they takes cues from the Earth 1 line of comics
@@FraserSouris What movies? Nolan?
@@nation5743 The DCEU movies
@@FraserSouris idk what you're smoking but it must be good
@@FraserSouris they are not. Also it's not the Earth 1 line, it's the New 52 line, the line comic fans largely did not like
Batman Beyond Is The severely underrated, It was my childhood
Edit: This was in 2010’s so Batman beyond was done, My dad found a complete set at Walmart. He had never heard of the show before but he enjoys Batman movies here and there. So we watched an episode everyday before breakfast. It was pretty nice. And that intro is just so gooood
My fav version of Batman
The intro music alone made it awesome. 😁
Cyberpunk Batman. My childhood was awesome.
That's what they should have used Robert Pattinson for instead of another reboot. With Michael Keaton as old Bruce.
@@jaxongedden7174 And Mark Hamill as old wheelchair bound Joker. He's said he's done, but I bet he'd come back for a chance to play him live.
I absolutely loved Static Shock, it's a shame they didn't more with the character, after the animated series was cancelled.
Seriously. That's one of the DC characters that I always wished got a second chance
He's Basically A Younger Version of Black Lightning.
@@richardtracy8242real
The first episode of Justice League is also a great blueprint for how they could have fast tracked their way to a Justice League movie so long as they led with origin movies from Superman and Batman (you could maybe also throw in Wonder Woman). Literally all the other heroes were introduced or fully fleshed out in the first episodes.
I think the main thing with the first episode of Justice League is that viewers didn't have to know what happened in the previous shows to follow along. For example, I never really watched the Batman or Superman shows, I mostly just knew the characters through cultural osmosis (because how can you not?) and the main conflict of the first episode(s) guides new viewers through the less well known characters, mostly Martian Manhunter (who I had never heard of prior to the show), and establishes justification for the heroes to work together without using Darkseid.
Dude! I say this all the time. Hell there was even an episode in SAS when Bruce come to metropolis to investigate a deal between lex and the joker. In his brashness Batman breaks into a night club and ruffs up a few guys to get some information from them. Superman shows up and tries to confront him and bats throws him into a wall. There was also a point in the scuffle when Superman revealed he knew Batman’s identity to which Bruce places a tracker on Superman to follow him home figuring out he’s Clark Kent. I think they could’ve used this episode as a base to start their first meeting, but instead of the meeting with lex have Batman hunting down a parademon in the city. This could have lead to a chance meeting and set up later events. The first episode would have worked too but after stand alone films.
There's also Justice League: War and Throne of Atlantis comics and movies if they wanted something more recent. They're not perfect but would have been a good foundation. Like it was right there.
@@GiantButterKnife The DCAU was really great at being interconnected but allowing for anyone new tp easily jump in at any point without being lost while rewarding those who have been watching all along.
I mean this literally happened in ZSJL
Only thing I'd like to add is where you say the MCU was launched off the backs of the success of X- Men and Spider-Man it should always be noted that those films were launched off the back of the success of Blade.
If a time traveler wanted to go back and stop the MCU from existing they'd have to go back and sabotage the first Blade film.
Not really. Blade was the first comicbook movie to work. But if it hadnt been for the huge financial success of spiderman and X-Men, studios wouldnt have been willing to continue to invest rescources in similar projects.
X-men and Spider-man (Raimi) are the backbone of the MCU, sorry to break it to you. Not Blade. Feige worked on the first X-men film as an assistant producer, same with the Spider-man films. He learned what are the should-be and should-not-be. He learned the ways of CBMs. That's why by the time his team is set to create the MCU, he knows the first and foremost rule "hire people that actually understand the characters, and passionate to develop the films". Feige's learnings from both X-men and Spider-man films are the backbone of the MCU.
@@airwaters X-Men and especially Spider-Man are the backbone to ALL superheroes now but the money that was made from Blade was what gave Sony (Spider-Man) and Fox (X-Men) the confidence they needed to make their own Movies.
Blade is a part of the Marvel universe regardless if people knew it or not.
Well X men and Spiderman is already a very popular comics unlike iron man or captain America those two titles will always make money
I can’t stand that the live action movies turned Superman into an aloof alien or an unfeeling demigod. He was a wonderful man from Kansas with kind and loving parents. Most of us have met that “Midwest nice” kind of person with a rock solid moral code and selfless demeanor. It’s a shame the guys entrusted with making DC movies didn’t take a page out of Star Trek’s book to point out that you don’t have to be an earthling to be a good human.
The "world's finest" episodes of Superman TAS were so good at building a relationship between Batman and Superman that it blew my mind how much potential was wasted with the DCEU.
They should have made a live action WF instead of BVS
@@manthony225 Zack Snyder wanted to make a live action version of the Dark Knight Returns.
That scene where they first meet and each use their particular skills to figure out each other’s secret identities and get under each other’s skins STILL sticks with me to this day!
@@youngknowledgeseeker I agree it was good.
@@KRYMauL And he could have if he actually understood or wanted to understand the characters.
Every time the conversation comes up about DCEU vs. MCU, I think about how awesome the animated universe was, and how if they had capitalized on the nostalgia and style of those shows from the early 2000s, their cinematic universe would be so much better! So thanks for making this!
Shazam and the first wonderwoman where the only DCEU that understood who those characters are.
I don’t know if Aquaman did or not, I’m not a big Aquaman fan, but even not liking Aquaman as a character I thought the movie was really good, I went watching it not even wanting to like it but I couldn’t deny it.
@@youngknowledgeseeker I have yet t0 see it but it maybe g00d
@@evandugas7888 I will assume you watched it by now but aquaman was mid at best i dont get the hype for it.
Didn't really like Shazam.
The Actor who played Billy and Zachary Levi weren't on the Same Page-The Adult Shazam Acted More Immature and Childish Than Billy Did.
Disney started off as an animation company, which is why they embraced the storytelling aspect of animation regardless of the medium and made it possible to incorporate them into their live action MCU films that are adapted from comics. The executives at Warner Bros. however hasn't fully understand quality storytelling of a film despite if it's animated or not.
I think that's fair and makes a lot of sense. Disney also was smart enough to give the MCU freedom
WB has the second most important animated characters in the West, they are called the "Looney Tunes" perhaps you've heard of them.
@@Micah_7 Elmer a hunter and PETA kills animals. This literally makes no sense.
@@Micah_7 Apparently they failed because it was a bunch of white girls thinking they were being progressive. The whole social movement in the US is the same reason we don’t have nice public bathrooms for a few quarters like European countries.
@@Micah_7 The Japanese also have a lot of money because their taxes are higher.
What is crazy is that Geoff Johns was also involved in the creation of the DCEU. A man who is so obsessed with the silver age version of characters that he brought back both Barry Allen and Hal Jordan.
He was one of the minds behind WW84 and that movie was garbage!!
@@biguy617 that is what I am saying Geoff Johns does so good and respects the characters so much in his comics but doesn't translate them to film. Also Patty Jenkins says Geoff Johns was only involved in name only and takes full credit for that movie.
@@fatenabu1 that's what shocks me the most he is such a genius in terms of comics how can he make so much bad films, I think this happened because they brought directors to make movies but later on interfered and changed the movies way too much, These things don't work I've seen snyder cut and man that movie if relesed in theatres would have laid a strong foundation for DCEU, too bad WB didn't have the patience and trust on their directors it seems to me like zack snyder had a pretty good plan..
@@fatenabu1 tbf Geoff Johns was also one of the people that ruined the Justice League movie by hiring Josh Wheadon and Changing a lot of stuff from Snyder’s Orginal version.
@@zillauniverse7208 yea super crazy, with that said he is in charge of Star Girl on HBO Max/CW and it is pretty good even though I am not the target audience.
My favorite DCAU moment was when Batman goes to Grundy's sewer and just wordlessly leaves a Christmas dinner for him. Everything they did with him was fantastic, and brought him from "big zombie smash" to someone who is misunderstood and constantly attacked, but just wants to be left alone so he can rest in peace, essentially like Frankenstein's Monster.
I've been saying this all along. The DCAU is pure gold.
oh and favourite moment "I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard" absolutely perfect Superman line
Such a great line, we don’t even mind that he pulverizes entire city blocks just with the sonic boom from the shockwaves. ✌🏼
Learn from that, DCEU. /s
@@davidw.2791 Do you just try and find any excuse that can be twisted to defend the DCEU's excessive collateral damage?
DeathLeprecon Twist where? Was there any evacuation seen in the JLU “Destroyer” Metropolis? Did Superman fly anyone away? All things people heap upon Man Of Steel’s feet but oh, write a better snappy speech and Superman can just punch ol’ Darkseid with impunity - earthquakes and shattered glass and walls galore - without people whining about proactively punching him into the sun.
@@davidw.2791 Yeah I would agree that what Superman did in this scene is a dangerous action and somewhat as irredeemable as what the Snyderverse of Superman did.
The only argument I'd have against this is a semantics one, where I would argue there's a possible evacuation contingency in place seeing as the DCAU has a long history by the time of Darkseid's appearance of Super's and their actions inside cities.
But afaik there's no proof of this.
the only counter to it is that it's a short scene and doesn't cause nearly as much damage and devastation and loss of life as it does in the DCEU. But again this is a semantics argument.
They're both wrong, I only consider the DCAU version better because it addresses the power that Clark has and brings up that he's able to do this while actively not doing this.
Dave I would love to headcanon about evac protocols myself, but in this same episode, as Darkseid was having the upperhand as he pummels Supes with The Planet (literally) the people of The DP are still inside the building and this was hardly the very beginning of the invasion so I wonder.
ABSOLUTELY!!!I've been saying this exact same thing for over a decade!!!Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, and Dwayne McDuffie and Co. should have been put in charge!!
Dwayne McDuffe has been dead for over a decade RIP
@@medafan53 I know..And he will never be forgotten.
@@SiriuslyBlack7 Very true, his legacy is a major part of our childhoods (is that the plural of childhood?)
@@medafan53 no 's' needed.But yes you're absolutely right!
"Braniac Attacks" is not part of the DCAU. It was cranked out in a hurry to tie into the publicity blitz around "Superman Returns," and so it resused Superman TAS character models and stuff, but it's *NOT* in continuity. With anything, really.
I was about to say I don't think Braniac Attacks is part of the DCAU.
@@TrippleBPlays OTOH, "Batman and Harlie Quinn" (2017) and "Justice League vs. The Fatal Five" (2019) are! Pretty much everyone connected with the DCAU wants to bring it back, and they manage to sneak in stuff here and there.
@@mahatmarandy5977
Was Batman and Harley Quinn part of the continuity officially? I liked it, but Batman seemed a bit too out of character to me ("smells like...discipline").
Maverick Christian according to Bruce Timm, it is. Evidently it was originally intended to be a generic DC adventure, but at some point in the production they decided, "eh, what the heck, why not? This is a comedy anyway, it's not like the suits care," so they reworked it a bit it's now DCAU canon, though I agree everything seems a wee bit off. But, y'no, comedy. You get to play fast and loose with the rules
Justice League vs. The Fatal Five also doesn't QUITE line up perfectly. For example, none of the present day heroes seem to have ever heard of the Fatal Five before, despite them having been the villains of an episode of Justice League Unlimited, we get zero mention of Supergirl, despite her having gone to the future to join the Legion of Superheroes the last time we saw her, and we see a statue of Hal Jordan as one of Earth's Green Lanterns despite him only ever appearing in an alternate timeline. And like Batman & Harley Quinn, there's something of a tonal disparity as it's clearly written by different people in a different decade. I would personally qualify both movies as "canon if you want them to be, not if you don't"
Anyone that questions their ability to curate a more mature take of this universe outside of cartoons should probably be made aware that the first two Arkham games were written by Paul Dini.
One of my personal “pains” is most of my friends like Marvel, and haven’t seen half of the DCAU outside of Static Shock. DC really could’ve had something great, but Warner Bros. have no idea what they’re doing.
Rip the great Dwayne McDuffie! Didn’t see him mentioned in the video but he really helped make a lot of the DCAU that he worked on something special
Bruce Timm and Paul Dini will always have a special place in my heart.
But is Paul Dini who is the real mastermind.
@@mayotango1317 I would agree to it being both of them Paul Dini’s writing is unbelievable for a kid’s show and is still great watching it as an adult but it was Bruce Timm’s art style that gave it the iconic look that I remember.
Bruce Timm is the artist and thats mostly it.
Its Paul Dini that made it what it is.
Bruce Timm made Batman and Harley Quinn, 'nuff said.
"he's an incredible visual filmmaker" i.e. he's a hack director, but has cool shots. He's essentially Michael Bay with better cinematography
lol, he is an incredible filmmaker, you just hate facts, with that being said, he is not a good writer
@@lye27 if he was an incredible filmmaker he'd have an incredible film, which he doesn't
@@lye27 if he as incredible as u claim he wouldn't have fucked up BvS.
@@lye27 Have you watched his recent zombie movie?
@@boshwa20 the only good zombie movie imo was 28 days later and thats it and the rest is trash
It's incredible how moving 2D drawings can have more character depth, and complexity than live action blockbusters.
we see that with disney 24/7 lol
These shows were my childhood, that's why I could never understand how the bigscreen versions could be so messed up. The first thing I noticed about the MCU was how similar it was to these animated series' world building than their own.
It honestly bugs me that people are still trying to call Zach’s JL as a masterpiece when I’ve seen way better and more effective JL team ups, the show itself goes down as one of the best ensemble superhero shows ever and it’s animation....animation made me believe they were a team with issues, problems, hope, death and near death, different interactions, actual chemistry between them and the fact that they’re not stoic or forced awkward beings as plot devices
Why Is Flash more likeable and awesome in the series than the movies? Cuz the writers care about the source material
Why is Batman the best? Cuz he’s actually smart and doesn’t depend on a Superman to save the day, HE is the being that gets things done regardless, he’s the smartest in the group
I could go on to contrast why the DCEU doesn’t work with our notable heroes we’ve loved for decades, but it’s clear why, WB only cares about looks and profit from DC and not substance, it’s noticeable that only the solo movies have any real grit of creativity and storytelling, the directors have more creative control and they actually care about giving us a version of the character by making them mean something, is perfect? Not always, but they care about the material and that’s why the solo movies from the DCEU work more
In the animated, lantern even asks him about powers and is like whaaat you don't have any?
And another point superman is captured and batman literally goes alone to save him.
It infuriates me so much that DCEU defenders call every film of snyders perfect masterpieces, since they clearly do not understand the potential there is. MoS is apparently a masterpiece, BvS, and ZSJL, ALL masterpieces in their mind, the animated hardly gets any recognition when it gets the characters right and does them justice.
@@bluefiremarkii truth, it’s frustrating
ZSJL is actually good just not a Good adaptation of the Superman and Batman Character but still good, they even talked about the plans for the series at the time which are hit or miss as most ZS DCEU projects are.
Also the Batman there has improved somewhat from his BVS counterpart as he has become more hopeful and less Cynical. (which is what I think ZS was going for, it starts out Cynical but ends on Hope, like how The Batman did.)
TLDR: I think Zack wanted to start the DCEU out like Watchmen then end it with Justice Leauge.
Cause Snyder Batman and Superman are both god awful. Both of them are literal charisma vacuums and neither act like leaders at all. One of the things that bothered me the most about Snyder JL was just how boring Batman was. He just looks confused half the times and his lines inspire no confidence at all. Not to mention that his supposed super intellect is nowhere to be found in either bvs, Jostice League, or Snyder JL. Superman is even worse. Snyder seems to give less and less of a shit about him over the course of 3 movies. In JL Justice, his supposed redemption arc is coming back and being a smug show off, and then having next to no lines where he actually SPEAKS to his justice league teammates. And then we get another 20 minute of the potentially "evil" superman. It gets annoying and clearly shows that Snyder isn't very interested in Superman as a character. He never acts as a leader in all three films, and his cool moments are just when he punches someone very hard or is standing there looking smug.
And that's a huge problem if you want a DC universe. Superman and Batman are the absolute anchors of any justice league story, but snyder completely failed at presenting either of them. This is a huge reason why DC still cant get their connected universe set up, and are now deadset on rebooting. Cavill acts more like clark kent in real life than superman in the movies, and snyder still ruined him. This is also not to mention some of the actual issues with casting. Ezra Miller's flash is controversial, and Gal Gadot (despite looking the role) has a lot of acting limitations that makes it easy for her bad performances to show under poor directing.
@@ninjanibba4259
thats just dumb comparison dude because you comparing full series with hours of runtime that had lots buildups to small movies with longest movie runtime zack snyder justlice legue of 4 hours which is still nothing to the animated series and movies if you wanna include those.
Could you imagine if Paul dini and Bruce timm made a live action movie/cinematic universe.
I think about it often along with what they could do with a Marvel animated universe
I'm always a bit scared about Bruce Tim obsession with having Bruce and Barbara date.
DCAU director’s: left to do their own thing
DCEU directors: fucked over at every turn by WB
Snyder Cut is the best example of this. No WB meddling and look how much of an improvement we saw compared to 2017's movie.
True, but also not true
Blockbusters: Too much money at stake, fuck up once and you are done for good
TV series: Way less money at stake, but get a below-average rating and you can kiss your series goodbye while WB keeps making money out of it for years to come, no matter how big the fanbase is
@@Soremwar That only explains why the live action directors were fucked over
It doesn't excuse it
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ not excusing it lol, I'm trying to say that executives will fuck you over no matter who you are or what you do
Nah, dcu are too obsessed with being Tough Manly Men who take everything 200% seriously and cant collaborate for shit
You're right! I agree with you. I mean, to build a strong foundation for a long-running franchise, especially for a live-action, interconnected universe is to grow one character at a time before bringing them all together. Every Justice League member should ihave their own standalone trilogy before bringing them for a Justice League movie; I think that's what I would've done because everyone wants to understand the version of the characters more before bringing a team-up storyline and that is why the MCU and DCAU is a success. I really want Matt Reeves, and Paul Dini to work on a Justice League, but as much as I want Superman to show up in Robert Pattison's Batman universe, it would be better if Matt Reeves reference them in the third Batman movie without cameo nor appearance, just a reference.
Every time I see Batman Beyond's Fr. Freeze all I can think of is that devastating line he had.
Batman tells him the building is collapsing and they need to get out (Not quoting because I don't remember the exact words.) Fr. Freeze's response:
"Believe me. You're the only one who cares."
For the Man who has Everything, in its entirety. Mongol, Bruce and Clark's visions, the ending.
Oh and Mask of the Phantasm. Best Batman Film ever!
No Killing and No guns.
Meanwhile the DCEU Batman in his first appearance: *So anyways I started blasting*
The DC Animated Universe, a series of shows aimed at children come off as more grown-up than most of the DCEU, especially the Snyder films (although I was surprisingly engaged by the Snyder Cut so, credit where it’s due).
The JL cartoons weren't aimed at kids
Being suitable for kids doesn't mean being aimed at them.
And yes in hindsight they can be seen as more mature because they're fucking tv shows. We had more time to be engaged with the characters
With the DCEU being movies, and a company pressuring everyone to rush to JL we didn't have that privilege
Specially the Snyder films? That's a lie, those movies are no Ant Man and the Wasp...
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ it was aimed at them but it was suitable for everyone. Its litterally why they ran on kids networks
Antman was never supposed to be serious.
@@kingkong9892 No it run on kid networks because animation isn't taken seriously and companies need money from toy advertisments to finance them
It's a practical thing not an aimed thing. Writers do not write most cartoons for kids. Networks just market them better that way
The very end of Green Lantern: The Animated Series where the vengeance filled Razer had hope he'd find Aya who he realized he loved, I got all the feels.
God I wish that show would come back.
You're telling me a director that said this. I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” Shouldn't have come close to a Superman movie?
To this day, the DCAU still represents the best incarnations of Batman and Superman to be and when I read the comics I just hear Conroy and Daly!
Omg yesss 100% agreed with that!!!
and if the joker isn't voiced by mark Hamill, it's not really the joker.
Seriously, I think the voice acting didn't have any miscast role, they were all perfect.
I just saw the title for this video and I already whole heartedly agree
They actually did. Jay Olivia (the storyboarder) stated that Batman's arc was to become "like his Animated Counterpart".
But more than that, the main inspiration for the DCEU were the modern comics like Earth 1 and Birthright since these were looking to be a modern version of the characters which is just as valid, if not more interesting
I’d argue that the method of starting with the team up film then having spin-off solo films could’ve actually worked.
After all, the DCAU really only started off with Batman and Superman and introduced and developed the rest of the team in the series proper and it worked out just fine.
Film audiences have accepted new iterations of Batman for decades and to a lesser extent the same could be said for Superman.
A Justice League movie could’ve worked as long as you put the focus on versions of the characters that catered to the quintessential aspects of at least those two and developed the story and world from there.
Not to mention how these days we have so many stories from The Boys to Invincible to Jupiter’s Legacy (That one less so) to where it’s just another superhero universe with this broad cast of colorful characters with varying origins and powers, and people just accept it. People just understand how superhero universes work now and that would be doubly true for an iconic one like the DC universe. But you need to distill it down to the essentials and present it in a manner that’s easy to follow. That’s where the DCEU made it’s missteps.
they should have hired snyder only as a director for his visual style and then allowed some competent writers to do the writing.
Ya he is the 1 who messed up with bvs so bad that they over corrected with justice league.
To be fair watch mos, and both the director cut, didn't make the universe bad at all. It's just it allows no entryway for anyone who never saw any DCAU stuff.
@@dharmani_youtube Unpopular opinion, I think it was better constructed than how most people looked at it. But that's just me
Or maybe, I don't know, hire someone that can direct not just visually but also the smaller quieter moments. Unless you're talking about a DP, in which case they had Larry Fong whose work on Kong Skull Island trumps anything he did in the DCEU
@@dharmani_youtube the problem with Zack, other than I actually find his work boring usually, is that he wants those big iconic moments..especially early on. It's like each of his dceu improved. But yeah he wasn't good at establishing really..it's like he wanted to make a frame of some iconic thing without the story behind the myth. Even when Superman wasn't Superman and just a super hobo.
At last someone who’s saying what I’ve always thought, DCAU is outstanding and loved it
Dude, you knocked this outta the park. Great essay!
1:52 Superman: Brainiac Attacks! Isn’t actually part of the DCAU, despite its art style. The movie basically ignores events of Superman TAS and supplements it’s own history/continuity.
A fellow Watchtower Databae i see
Honestly we have so many live action superhero shows and yet I think I rather watch BTAS, STAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited. Animation is so underrated.
Have you heard of anime? It’s only underrated in the West because the only “good” adult animation is on Adult Swim and that’s targeting teens and young adults not the average adult.
It’s because they were that well made I would rather watch the DCAU over and over again instead of any other superhero content
@@AndreNitroX Idk Young Justice and the 90s Spider-man is pretty good at least from what I remember.
@@AndreNitroX Idk, man. Marvel has some incredible animated shows, too. The 90's Spider-Man and X-Men, Avengers: EMH, Spectacular Spider-Man, Wolverine and the X-Men, and X-Men: Evolution being some of my favorites. DC also has a few good ones. Young Justice and Teen Titans are two of my favorite DC cartoons.
@@Stanos_1 You listed some of my favorite superhero shows as well. which tells me you have excellent taste in superhero content, and while i love that stuff as well, the DCAU shows are so engrossing i cant help but put them at #1
10:50 "Animation is for Children and Live Aciton is for Adults"
Funny enough Zack Snyder himself said something close to this not too long ago
Gargoyles, The Incredibles, The entire MCU ..none of this would have existed without the DCAU. It should be noted that Avi Arad worked in Marvel Animation before he got into the live action movies. He was a first hand witness to the success of the DC animated universe and how it continually beat out Marvel animation in ratings and reviews. DCAU was a model on how to do things the RIGHT WAY. Arad and others took note of what the DCAU did right, whereas WB execs literally had no clue as to what their own employees did right.
As much as I agree that Bruce Timm is a master craftsman with a timeless aesthetic, I can not see him the same way after his more recent works. The Batman x Batgirl, the Nightwing x Harley are two that stands out most in my mind as a showcase of how off-the-rails he's become. It was Paul Dini who kept him in check and understood how to capture the soul of these characters.
What about Harley x Ivy and Ivy x Kite-man.
@@KRYMauL as far as I can tell Bruce Timm had nothing to do with the Harley Quinn TV series
Imagine a cinematic version of the animated Batman movie Mask of the Phantasm
It was cinematic, though. I’d even go so far as to argue that it’s the most cinematic since it didn’t go direct to home entertainment.
It would be a dream coming true
The best Batman movie to ever appear in theaters. Terribly underrated.
The only thing that made me sad about this universe is that we didn’t have a flash,Wonder Woman or green lantern show
I would love a Wonder Woman DCAU show on HBO Max
@@flashfire9825 cool
I heard Batman The Animated Series is going to get a revival on HBO Max. So who knows, maybe after that show comes back, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and other characters could get their own shows.
@@disneyvillainsfan1666 yeah I know,I don’t really like the idea
@@disneyvillainsfan1666 I like the idea of the DCAU continuing but not BTAS
I think a JL, Superman, Batman Beyond, or JL beyond revival deserve more love than Btas
Or a DCAU show for Wonder Woman at least
Me: Looks on UA-cam and sees someone talking about the DCAU.
Also me: Clicks by instinct.
Old Batman in the cartoons: *points out a gun because he's aging and can't do this anymore.*
Old Batman in the DCEU: *killing and marking signs goes brrt brrt*
Basically moon knight
Safwan Mustafiz The sad thing is, his predecessor was “I won’t be an executioner ... *blows up entire ninja compound 15 seconds later, people died INCLUDING that peasant he said he wouldn’t kill*” Batman, in comparison being violent “oh so i kill bad guys, You got a problem with that?” Batman was an upgrade in honesty, despite still not being a no-kill Batman.
One was Kingdom Come the other was Dark Knight Returns.
Here we go again bringing another movies implying Batman kills. Yeah he totally kills them but not in the most gruesome way, there is always a restraint.
Steve Rogers Here we are again merrily moving goalposts because your point totally is “Batman kills gruesomely he should be more restrained even as he kills” instead of “Batman kills and he really shouldn’t kill”. 👍🏼
Dwyane Mcduffie paved the way for this. RIP Dwayne
Tbh I’m a lil salty he didn’t honor his name in the beginning with the other main creators like he did for Bruce Timm, Dwayne didn’t really even get a throwback picture either!
😞RIP to the legend Dwayne Mcduffie😭
My favorite moment from the DCAU was from Batman Under the Red Hood when Jason was holding the gun up at Batman, the Joker on the ground with a big smile on his face, and Batman talking about why he will never break his one rule.
It's is separate from DCAU (the shows and movies created by Bruce Tim and his colleagues from 90s to early 2000s).
It pisses me off so much when people imply the DCEU could never have worked without following the same formula Marvel did. You absolutely could have made a team up movie first and then spun out of that.
We see movies where a "team" comes together all the time and nobody says the movie doesn't make sense because we didn't see origin movies for all the characters first. The problem Warner Bros had is they made bad movies and had little direction.
That, and Zach Snyder's. His belief in the mythos of John Galt, Ayn Rand's shitty "hero" of Atlas Shrugged, and the philosophy that comes with it A) precludes the possibility that the group could be greater than the sum of its parts or even the one B) discards those who aren't special as mere victims and takers, meaning anyone not of super is just a prop to make the super look good, and C) no way could a group of storytellers be as smart/right as him, because he is richer.
Basically, none of the DCEU are characters. Rather they are characatures cobbled together from a skim read of the top 5 most popular DC comic stories.
Everything from Batman v. Superman forward has to then drag itself up from there.
And while I'm ranting, the Snyder reshoot of JL can't be compared to the Whedon project as they had completely different constraints. Whedon had to take a partial product of characters we couldn't care about and fit it into the studio execs' requirements of 2 hrs, no time wasted on characters, and action ever x minutes. The result wasn't good, but it fit what he was hired to do.
@@arloevans206 I Actually Prefer The Whedon Cut To Hack Snyder's Overlong, Grainy Piece Of Trash.
This ironically fits really well with the hilarious failure of the “Dark Universe.”
The attempt at recreating the original “cinematic universe” and it died on take off.
They didn’t understand these characters/stories that well despite having a literal blue print for how to make it.
DCAU, made me fall in love with dc. Also the comics but the cartoon were so good and made my child self happy
A reminder that WB hasn't completely forgotten about the DCAU. The 2019 film, Justice League vs. the Fatal Five, is technically set in the DCAU.
If Young Justice got revived, then so should JLU and BTAS. SOOOOO many more stories to tell. I'd love to see a DCAU version of Flashpoint.
@@Stanos_1 according to kevin smith, there's a rumor that HBO Max might be developing a revival of BTAS
@@ahmedfawad16 that might get me to subscribe
I see some of my motion graphics work from the video on my channel that I did on Justice League Mortal at 5:31 & 5:49 they look great here!
I’ve been a fan for a long time. It’s fun to see the people that you watch on UA-cam watch your videos!
Ngl, Justice League Mortal sounds like it would have been awesome!
I really dislike that in the DCEU Batman and Superman will never be as close friends as they are in the comics or DCAU, that friendship is a big highlight for me.
If you haven't you should check you Superman/Batman Public Enemies. Lex becomes president and puts a very large bounty on both Batman and Superman.
Faxx their supposed to be best friends but in the movies they just want them to fight against each other , even tho they do fight in the comics your supposed to build their relationship first
I've always said the animated universe is the best DC has to offer. Probably always will.
1. World of Cardboard Speech by Superman
2. Green Arrow prevention the OG Justice League from disbanding
3. The Patriot Act episode where 7 non-powered Supes squared off against Eiling (Waller's words still ring in my head: Our enemies are never as evil as we think, and we are never as good)
Edit: OMG, can't believe I forgot to add when Wally entered the Speed Force to defeat Luthor-Brainiac. It was insane
Rest In Peace, Dwayne Mcduffie! ❤️
What he did for Milestone Media was terrific, as well as pushing for character above anything else.
I love that there's now a video version of the rant I've been giving my friends once a month for the past several years.
They actually did. Jay Olivia (the storyboarder) stated that Batman's arc was to become "like his Animated Counterpart".
But more than that, the main inspiration for the DCEU were the modern comics like Earth 1 and Birthright since these were looking to be a modern version of the characters which is just as valid, if not more interesting
@@FraserSouris What they're inspired by doesn't really matter if they failed to learn anything from it or make anything interesting out of it. That said, I'm not gonna get into an argument in the comments of a youtube video. So, have a good one!
Lol. Hell yeah.
@@andrewgreanias8811 I'd argue they absolutely did learn and make something interesting from it. We get a modern take on Superman that the comics have been doing for years but not really seen outside of it. We get a TDKR Batman who gets redeemed into a DCAU form.
How can you have the best superheroes and stories... And F it up like this?
Its crazy...
Dude thank Dwayne mic duffie . He is a legend
RIP 😢
We got to give Paul Dini more credit! He understood so many iconic characters and thats to me what makes DC such a cool standout from all the vanilla marvel characters
he literally invented harley quinn. so yes =)
As a diehard DCAU fan, I've been saying this for ages, but it always falls into void ears of the Snyder stans, those who need to hear this stuff. Unfortunate, WB rather have a murderous Batman instead of one that retires if he's gonna rely on a gun. Zack is a creative guy, but he forces too much some stuff.
And superman gets royally screwed. The movies get his character so wrong that it's sad. Look at what the MCU did with captain America. They completely captured why Steve Rogers is so loveable.
And yet snyder and Dc movie people seems to think that Superman can only have three traits: Be aloof, act like a god, and bang lois lane. Those are the only three character traits that movie supermans can have apparently. And snyder only wants Superman that is turning "evil" too.
How long do you think it will be until we get a Batman Beyond live-action movie?
Not soon enough!
There will be one with Robert Pattinson
@@theirishpotato6588 nope,he is just young bruce wayne
@@asura7915 no
@@theirishpotato6588 there is literaly tons of interviews and articles saying that the next batman movie is a stand alone(not conected to any shared universe) movie about a young bruce wayne ,taking inspirations from long hallowen and seven
I'm hoping the success of invincible will help mainstream audiences appreciate 2-D animation to tell compelling stories
Thragg
@@rentstoohigh1587 🤨
@@Sosuke_Aizen2.o oh you'll see
@@rentstoohigh1587 Oh shit-
Also, the thing is, I didn't know most of the characters from Marvel, but damn I know every JL character
I am so gald that I watched these in my childhood. The content was so mature.
Storytelling was beautiful. It really left an impression on me in my youth. Most of my knowledge and thinking developed from watching cartoons and playing games.
Nowadays cartoons are so dumbed down.
"Nowadays cartoons are so dumbed down".
Nah, go watch Invincible. Cartoons have only gotten better.